3D Printing in a 100°C Heated Chamber - Lessons Learned
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ค. 2020
- Printing high performance plastics on your 3D printer requires some special hardware such as a thermocouple and all metal hotend, but the most important thing is a heated chamber. Up to now all the DIY solutions have been made for aesthetics with transparent sides. To actually make a functional chamber for printing high temperature and high performance plastics you need to insulate, seal, and actively heat the chamber. Single wall acrylic sides won't do the job.
Electronics Isolation Tower Video:
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The CoreXY Printer I showed in this video:
• Two Trees Sapphire
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I know you already made a disclaimer about a fire hazard but I when I saw you get the heat gun out.... I can't help but tell you how dangerous that is. It is illegal for example to use the cavity in a kitchen cabinet as a heat run (it needs to be contained in duct work), the chance of fire goes up significantly when you raise the temperature of wood. One little spark in there and you will come back to lump of coal. I hope that your finished design is made of metal or some other suitable material. Otherwise, nice design!!
I love how this channel posts early prototypes and proof of concept builds with long discussions of the thought process.Just like this one. Those early builds are often unsafe, unreliable and should only be cloned to further the development.
Good point about the preheating of the wood increasing the fire hazard. Also this thing is a perfect oven. Poly-carbonate is not better from a safety perspective, both materials can emit hydrogen gas when they get charred because the heater heats it up somewhere above 300 C locally. The heater needs to be placed in its own steel enclosure with vents, so it cannot burn something if one of its holding screws fails.
Would some sort of cheap woven fiberglass material be a good basis material to construct the inside of the box from? It is heat resistant and hat a low thermal conductivity.
Menno van Lavieren, Potus Borg I agree with both you guys, I think he should have made a bigger disclaimer. Someone might build this and skip the safety warning in the video.
Eh the ignition point of wood is around 300C so at 100C you still a ways away. Sure metal would but I don’t think the wood is hazard as is.
@@Mrcaffinebean it doesn't work like that.
We print ABS all day long, and are using chambers build with the green 2-3mm (EDIT: 5MM) foam you lay under floating hardwood floors (click floors). It has metallic foil on one side, which is the inside of the chamber. It's cut with a Stanley knife in 3 minutes, assembled with duct tape. It weights one lb., cost 10$ and is ready in less than 10 minutes. The deluxe version has a piece of plexiglass duct-taped in as well.
The heat from the ender 3 105 degree C build plate will keep the chamber temp at 45 C, and a brim of 4 mm on the print will prevent warping.
We tried heating up a chamber once to 100 degrees, and the electronics gave up. It's not rated for those ambient temperatures.
If you need a quick hack on a chamber, try this out. Best, Chris
Christian petersen ...great share!
Sounds like a good solution. Do you have any pictures of the build you can share? Also, where do you source the foam with metallic foil? Around here they only come rolls costing about USD 100...
@@stoissdk , I suspect you are in Denmark too, here is the link: www.jemogfix.dk/parketunderlag-5-mm/4144/9035553/
@@stoissdk our local hardware store sells similar stuff as back side insulation for central heating radiators. About 15-20 bucks for a roll. about 1/8 in foam with thermal reflector foil on one side.
That sounds like a great solution but one thing I don't understand is how the electronics can handle that heat day in and day out?
So... a note from a Carpenter... a wider gap between the glazing will increase the amount of air "insulation" you get... but only to a point. 1/2" (aprox. 12 mm) is pretty much the max you can go between the glasing panes before convection currents start to form and any larger gap than that begins to become more of a cooling mechanism than insulating mechanism.
What about using a vacuum pump to pull a vacuum in the gap?
An important subject.
With all the months of hard work Matt's put into this project, I consider this month's $5 well spent. 😊
I've been really enojoying your vids since I became obcessed with 3d printing over the last few moths. Your passion and enthusiasm for the engineering/science side of things comes across clearly in your presentation. Thanks for the inspiring content!
Cool to see someone pushing the envelope on material types. Thanks for sharing the challenges in the build process - that was super interesting,. The learning about buildability is gold. Also good reminder that 2x2 should be kept in mind as an alternative structural element to aluminum extrusion. Please don't burn your house down.
As an owner of a stratasys an a few other hobby printers I can give some information that makes the stratasys a better machine for printing. The heated chamber for sure is the key and in a stratasys is held at 80°c but the tip cooling and the top of the extruder are also fed ambient air from outside of the chamber which stops run away temperature
My hobby printer sits within an insulated box with a 240v ac heater and I tend to only run it up to 40°c due to the other components though the steppers within my stratasys are all in the heated chamber and whilst it is becoming and old machine now still prints very well and reliably. It is at the end of its commercial life as material is no longer available so I now have to chip it - very tempted to gut it and replace the internal controls and use the stepper and extruders as they are very good quality
which strat do you have? would you sell it?
@@mrt6399 it's a uprint dimension. Probably would consider selling it but I feel that the value it's worth now may make me keep it. Probably only worth £750~£1000 which considering I paid around £15k for it does feel quite a hit but it's made good money for me over those years
@@rkde2042 Triton3d makes stratasys compatible filament for dimension
Lots of lessons learned here regarding enclosure design / needs - Thanks for sharing !
Working on one. Building it piece by piece. More knowledge I get on this, the better...thanks!
McMaster lists ridged fiberglass insulation panels that are foil faced. This material as the internal surface would add quite a bit. Also, you can heat with lamps and it's quite effective. The added bonus of the intense red light escaping through the window will keep you on your toes wondering with each glance if this is the time it really is on fire.
Use an old server / network cabinet. Nice and solid, can even put the printer on pullout rails
Well done, great share - I did not know about the stratasys patents. It was apparent the printers have to be enclosed. I ran into so many problems with a Makerbot Replicator + warping. When I passively enclosed the printer, the Makerbot extruders botched up - they couldn't handle even 45'ish degrees.
Drafts and temp are my mantra about the Makerbot printers.
Very nice idea with the double sided windows, but it’s hard to implement. I’ll try to keep the electrics outside the chamber since most of them should run in
A a to z for the duet connection and installation with all the electronic to do would be awesome. Following the heated chamber series!!
If you have a printer where the electronics are in the base, it makes sense to seal your box to the top of this, the cooling fans will then keep the inside of the base cool, while letting the chamber be hotter.
adding some thick home insulation foam outside will give you a much higher r value. Also a radiant barrier inside the box will trap heat much more effectively.
No they cannot sue you for making a enclosure. They also cannot sue you for showing people how to make an enclosure. They can sue you for selling a printer with an enclosure.
Who can sue for what? So no one can sell a printer with an enclosure?
Anyone can sue you for any reason. A judge may throw it out as a frivolous lawsuit, but that won't stop you from spending money on lawyers. Just because they won't win doesn't mean it won't be a huge hassle.
@@jonjon3829 Heated enclosures on FDM printers are still patent-protected
@@GrubbyZebra the trademark is invalid because it is obvious
@@norro21 Yeah it would be like me patenting the process of taking a shit and then trying to sue people when they go to take a shit.
I love the idea of a heated chamber. What had you settle on 100 degrees Celsius? Why not 50 or 75 or 90? Maybe you could do some test pieces at those temps and stress test them to see which is better.
Home Depot sells reflective thin foil ‘insulation’ you can coat the insides of the chamber with - my whambam enclosure comes with something similar and works great.
I was thinking reflectix
Literally just finished building one, I used foam core board for structure, and spray glue and “heavy duty” tinfoil to reflect the heat. Could also apply the tin foil to wood, or pink foam insulation etc.
Thanks for the great video and good call on Duet and RRF and great work on the enclosure. I am a relatively new Ender 5 plus owner which I am building an enclosure for and otherwise modifying for printing high temp materials. I started out going the Octopus + Klipper route, but I bought a duet board for another project and like it far more than the Octopus & Klipper. I didn't really appreciate fully just how well polished the Duet boards (and RRF) are. I'm making my enclosure out of sheet stainless steel and boy is it a lot of work! I'm using a water-cooled dragon and external cpap fan for part cooling for materials that require it.
I have been using a heated enclosure for quite some time with excellent results. Ii is built out of wood insulated with rockwool and those reflective aluminum sheets you normally use behind radiators, with a transparent front door held in place by magnets. For peace of mind I watercooled everything, hotends (chimera) and steppers using small water blocks from Aliexpress. They stay cool to the touch even printing at 80c for hours and you never get jams or other issues. Also replaced all the wheels with polycarbonate ones. The heating element is a wall mounted space heater sawed in half: the motor stays out of the box while the heating element and squirrel fan stay inside, and it is controlled by the firmware via a solid state relay. Pretty much silent and you get a very stable flow of hot air with the option of using only half of the element up to around 70c.
I ran into the same issues with bltouch, it goes blinking red after a while so you have to do the homing before activating the heater and you have to wait for it to cool down between prints.
You are right in that this is the single best improvement one can make on a 3d printer, not only for polycarbonate but also stuff like polypropylene which prints beautifully at 50c without warping.
Ah and give klipper a try, you may be in for a pleasant surprise!
Hi, Would you mind sending the link of the watercooled block you got from Aliexpress ? I am having hard time to find them
@@vdiallonort same here
Great project, and thanks for also sharing your failures as well!
I know you love your Duet, but for this purpose you should really look into Klipper, which allows firmware modification without recompilation because most of it runs on software (using a small board computer like a Pi, or even a PC), this allows super fast tuning of parameters. There is a version of Klipper which includes Duet Web Control, so you can continue to enjoy a world without Octoprint.
For my heated chamber I used an SSR and hair dryer, and connected a spare hotend thermistor for temperature sensing. Klipper allows configuration of thermal runaway protection so it is safe as well.
Klipper and reprap firmware are pretty similar from a user perspective, you just have to edit a configuration file and restart, no firmware recompilation. Klipper has the advantage that it can run with most cheap controller boards. Duet3D has fantastic controller boards. You can actually use klipper on the Duet boards.
i heated up my bed to 110°C and 250 nozzle and make a sealed chamber "no heated chamber", that was enough to have some outstanding prints made of ABS.
and a fatal flaw what i once commited was the extruder cooling was blowing air on the print (dont get confused with print cooling like PLA needs), the fan have some of the air leaking due to turbulence inside the extruder duct, blowing from the front of the fan and consequentially cooling the print, make them bend, have bad layer adhesion and etc...
i printed a different fan holder, with the fan pulling air from the extruder instead of pushing, and have around 45° angle to blow the air upwards.
now the prints are simply amazing.
btw, the "schottky" diodes that you're talking about was called "bridge rectifier". in THIS case, 50% means *half wave rectifier*, what let pass only the half positive (or negative) portion of the sine wave to the load, and 100% means *full bridge rectifier* (or full wave rectifier if you prefer), what means it uses positive and negative portion of the sine wave.
That's a great comment! You are clearly a very smart guy, but I suspect English is not your first language. No offence is intended, I just wanted to offer a helpful grammar hint. Be careful on the the usage of the word "what" vs "that". Correct grammar is "that will let pass only half of the positive..." also, at the end of the sentence it should read "that means it uses both the positive and negative portions of the of the sine wave.
@@hermit3400 why does it matter if you understood what he said. How many languages do you know again?
Thanks for the video, some great ideas in here. I have my printer in an enclosure outside so i don't have to worry as much about fumes and VOCs. Luckily I don't live in a cold country so I'm not fighting nature much to keep the enclosure warm.
actually what i been looking for no one on youtube is doing this. I would love to see if you could print PEEK or most likely PEKK . ill be following this series closely
I agree. There aren't very many youtubers that are putting PEEK videos. Probably even more helpful that other considering how expensive the stuff is. Knowing how to get successful prints would be helpful.
The thing is your printer should almost all metal, because at 100C most plastic starts deforming under load. No mechanical switch endstop should be used because of thermal expansion.
I agree. Heated chambers require thought to plan. Otherwise you will be fixing as you go.
Bearings need higher temp lubrication, rods/screws/rail may as well need higher temp lube.
I believe typical GT2 belts may have problems as well.
TheeGamefanatic there is GT2 with kevlar as well. Offering better performance than steel core belt and they won’t get fatigued overtime like steel.
instead of using the heater options you mentioned...... would a simple infrared lamp be a possibility? no need for air circulation since the light projects it's heat right onto the build.
Many years ago I used a scrapped kitchen oven as a heater for my fibreglass curing oven (requiring 60 deg.). I bend the circulating fan in the oven to push more air, removed the door of the oven, and build an extra chamber outside of rockwoll bats. This actually worked pretty good, even though temperature control wasn't that accurate. I added some extra thermo sensors in the outer chamber to see the variances in temperature, and I could live with them.
Adding more air recirculation with some heat resistant ventilators would optimize the setup.
I really don't know why you've got so many votes down.. I'm usually the first to hit the down button if I don't like something, but you published this so we could learn from your mistakes, and I really appreciate it! I now have a way better understanding of what will and won't work with enclosures, compared to having previously watched videos of people saying what to do without any kind of measure of usefulness and/or reasons for the methods involved in building it.
I usually agree with video ratings on TH-cam, but, apparently, people don't know what good information is lately..
I think, based on your results, for now I'm going to wall off the sides of the shelves with my printers, and maybe put a roof over them, just to easily block the main airflow issues, and consider adding some kind of heating to it, too.
Thank man! I know right!
A sealed chamber (cheap build) is enough to print ABS with my Prusa i3 mk3s without problems.
One of my current projects is making a heated chamber for my Tronxy X5SA Pro CoreXY printer. I use the 2020/2040 profiles of the printer to attach isolation material. The X/Y motors can be left outside the chamber and keep cool. Marlin on the SKR 1.4 board supports heating chambers so I don't need a Duet. :)
It might be a good idea to line the inside with thin sheets of firecode rated drywall or at least aluminum foil.
"can of worms" - nice vid!
This video was great, like night and day compared to some of the other more ranty ones. Just built a heated chamber myself. I think you’re right about adding more part cooling fans. The ambient is low enough that the PC is in glass state, but the layers aren’t equalizing fast enough. Other solution is to set a higher minimum layer time, so printer goes slower, or does a pause between layers to allow previous layer to reach glass state.
I wonder how robust this is to thermal cycling issues... I'd be worried that some components in the heat gun would self destruct after prolonged low duty-cycle operation.
Great video, really apriciated it.
I do have a question concerning lifespan of the printer, would it be worth it actively cooling stepper motors, and the hotend with a water cooled system?
Wouldn't heat creep be an issue at those temperatures?
Thanks a lot!
Yep. Water cooling is the way to go. But I think that the best would be for him to use the other printer he showed.
But the reason why he didn't try that one is because it is harder to enclose with his expectations. But after this video the expected quality is questionable. :(
I put together a liquid cooling loop for my Ender 3 for my heated enclosure and its been working well for quite some time.
@@V8in240sx Actively heated? Up to what temp are you working?
Christophe Kafrouni Yes active heat, cooling, and air filtration depending on what material I’m using. Right now I’m capped at 100*c enclosure, 340*c hotend, and 115*c bed. End plan is a couple of upgrades to get me in the Ultem 1010 required range.
The four Diode's in that config are called a bridge rectifier and you can buy them in any electronics store basically converting AC to DC power.
Rather Than use a heat gun, why don't you use and old small space heater or a toaster. Both of them have a more robust heater element and a thermostat ?
Use halogen bulbs rather than the heat gun. Place them over the build table, offset from the Y axis that the print head runs on. This will direct heat to the printing part. This will offer a heated chamber effect between the heated table and bulbs without overheating every other part of your printer. Still have the walls of the chamber to stop draft but leave the top open so that the printer doesn’t overheat.
If you have all motors, wiring, bearings etc in the chamber they will malfunction very quickly. This is why commercial printers with heated chambers have nothing but the build table inside the chamber, everything else is outside the chamber in a fan cooled environment, very important.
Biden’s EPA made the sale of halogen bulbs illegal in the US a couple of months ago
For the part cooling issue, why not use a high speed stream of air in a venturi which drops the temperature through the PV=nRT effect? Start with ambient temp, drop pressure to drop temp, and return to ambient, thereby keeping the whole thing adiabatic.
thats basically what i did with mine, except i only used glass windows in the doors an the rest was 5mm thick foam board a layer on the outside an a layer on the inside, i had first planed just to do the layer on the outside an then fill the space inside with sound deadening foam but the single 5mm foam board muffled it enough for my liking so i opted to just use the same on the inside.
The velcro on the panel is a cracking idea
Looks like the patent may have finally expired in the last couple days (Feb 27, 2021).
Now we can just hope the maker market companies will jump on it like a hungry pack of wolves.
Those mini saw blades looked wicked! Using a router with a slot bit mounted in a router table and fence might have been a safer solution. Using thicker plastic also in the process.
Havent watched the full video yet, but where is the vertical and hprizontal reinforcements on the "legs" of that thing?
If the printer moves, the momentum of that movement needs to be countered by something, otherwhose your print will get layer shift due to the whole thing swinging back and forth.
The design you initially proposed stands on 4 legs that will without a doubt starts wobbling and swinging as soon as the örint starts.
Luckily this is relatively easy to resolve by putting some tension cables in between the leggs.maybe add a few stone plates to increase the mass of the whole steucture so it doesnt move so easily overall.
Maybe it's easier to put a 3d printer in an old oven? Especially one with fan bake ;-)
You know that’s not a bad idea. They are cheap or free all over Marketplace. Would be very safe
I did that, works well!
for small ones, a scrap microwave makes a good and cheap/free case with a door too.
if you have 2 of the same model you could even cut on each one side off and bold them together to get twice the volume,
I came here to say surely a cheap electric fan assisted oven would be absolutely perfect for this! best insulation, perfectly safe, perfect temp control, so much easier than this build in terms of effort... When I get one I might go ahead and do it!
So simple. Brilliant.
Very cool. Not sure why the heater is needed. Haven’t watched all of the video yet, kinda skipped to you discussing the result, But did you try to run it simply enclosed and measure the temperature between the bed and roof?
I just got a creality ender 3 neo, running in a small dehumidified room. And i’m usually greeted with temperatures 10-15 Celsius above ambient room temp on the other side of the door
I use 1” aluminizes foam board taped with aluminum tape. Then heat with 2 small halogens and a fan inside. Electronics outside. A thermostat controls the lights. Like your small viewing window, definitely update my builds tomorrow. I’m currently designing water cooling the stepper motors with good success. Thanks, love you work
I just did that earlier today, finally got around to trying some ABS now that I'm low on everything else. Had 3 walls of 2" aluminum faced already to block the breezes in my shop already. No Auxiliary heat or fans but the print I tried came out perfectly fine. Not worried about the stock board since I have an upgrade, but I have the power supply and the filament reel on the outside. I think having the filament reel somewhere it won't catch fire if there's an issue is really important. I didn't bother to fully seal it yet, want chamber temperature monitoring first - probably an oven thermometer and viewing window to start, already available.
I learned that my Creality fire proof enclosure is cool outside except for the front transparent window. Maybe due to its reflective skin inside the black fabric. You may try to attach a layer of aluminium foil that reflects back the radiated heat. I am normally not trying to allow more than 40 Celsius with my DIY temperature controller as I have ender 3 electronics inside. I took the display part out of the enclosure and the next plan is to take out the board too with longer cables to have increased ambient temperature. Regarding your comment on baking filaments in the enclosure, it is in fact a good idea. I am doing it with a paper box cover on the print bed with a filament spool inside based on the fact that the ender 3 bed temperature control is quite good. BTW, 100 deg seems too high for that, doesn't it?
The Qidi iFast has a heated chamber. I added one to my X-Max with a 250 watt PTC heater and temp controller. I heat to 60C and use the bed at the same temp.
I've enclosed my delta printer with Perspex and use dichroic 50w downlights to add extra heat to the chamber controller by the duet mainboard. The hotend is water cooled so the cold side stays cold and a berd air tube/pump for part cooling so its not blowing hot air on the part. The extruder stepper inside the enclosure is getting on the hot side for running. 45 degrees in there seems adequate for large ABS parts not to warp.
I'm making a 1/4" plywood box that slots together, inner layer with reflectix and lightbulb and fan to heat. Thought about ripping my heart gun apart but feel anything over 80c in the chamber is a bit over kill
I built 2 chambers out of simple 1" foam insulation boards from Home Depot. Cost almost nothing and took an hour max. Works great and simply retains the heat from the hot end and bed temps. PC and Nylon do not warp or crack.
This, is what I was thinking watching. The chamber, in and of itself if built properly, prevents drafts and crazy temp fluctuations. How necessary is it to heat the chamber to 100c? Also, how does all the printer components hold up to this long term? I'd think that would shorten the life of many components significantly considering most rep/rap printers are not built with this as part of the original design?
@@TheJacklwilliams should probably design the printer so electronica and stepper motors are cooled or put outside of the Chamber, maybe by longer rods.
@@AndersJackson Yea up to about 80C the magnets in the stepper motors are going to lose strength. That's temp of the stepper motor not the air around it. At 100C the motors must be getting above that by a good 30-35C and will shorten their lifespan by ALOT.
You’re going to shoot your eye out kid!
I used the ceramic heater element and used a heat control for hatching and raising birds
You could also add silica beads to keep the chamber dry since wood will retain moisture.
I was gonna make one out of an old oil drum, but I like your cabinet better. It's almost like I forgot wood existed.
Found your video after I made my own enclosure, from double-walled polycarbonate, which is often used here in winter glasshouses ;) Might add a heater to it though
Have you thought about updating/upgrading a Cube Pro? I got a Tri for about $125 used. I just haven't had the time to start converting to RepRap.
Nice approach dude 👍 I came up with similar thoughts and for sure want to buy insulated chamber printer for my technical FDM parts. Maybe I also give the Qidi max a try because I have one on pre order.
One very important question regarding Fibre filaments though: did you check if the fibers and aerosolized fiber part can cause cancer like asbestos? I’m not sure anymore if I should better leave this danger out of my garage….
For the heater use an external temp controler the ITC-1000 works well
Since going to a temperature controlled chamber in a humidity controlled room (dehumidifier) my prints are more repeatable. There are some nice inexpensive Digital Temperature Controller available on Amazon and other places. I just use an old incandescent light bulb for heat. A cardboard box with plexi glass windows makes a great enclosure. Foil lining can help, but cardboard works fine for these low temperatures 100C and below. Step motors are rated to work at or below 50C, so keep that in mind.
Legit video - subscribed. Solid & fairly original + practical advice. I'm doing the same right now (except with a RailCore, basically the same as your core xy) and have some suggestions I figured on my own & from other RailCore users:
1. 70 C seems to be the 'magic'/ideal enclosure temp, at least for the most common plastics that require a heated chamber
2. I've gotten some of those PTC heaters as well & probably how I am going to go about heating the enclosure (which, btw, are both AC & DC compatible - they are like ceramic resistors that can be designed to heat only to a specified temp. Easily available temps that I've seen are something like 70C, 110/120C, an 200 - 230C max which I believe is the max for this heater design. The way it functions is like those Metcal curie point soldering irons, but using a different process, where the resistance slowly changes as temp changes and once the pre-set temp is reached it stops heating up relatively abruptly. Good b/c all of the element gets up to temp and cool spots get more 'juice').
I've gotten some from DigiKey that have a max of 100-110C, but are a fairly low wattage & will be fixing them directly to the frame itself with some thermal compound (the cheap ones are usually not electrically insulated so if they would be used for this youd want to make sure that the thermal compound handles that aspect).... Not sure if I will end up controlling them as a separate trigger or as part of the air heater though. May just use them during heat up via a trigger.
3. Haven't fully test this out yet, but I've attached all my heating elements to larger heat sinks (as previously mentioned they heat up faster the further they are away from their max temp) so hoping that speeds things up & I can use natural convection as much as possible to distribute the heat.
4. If you want to get quality PTC heaters, but want to have more control over their temp max, wattage & voltage while also keeping costs very low I have seen a line of TDK PTC heating elements (just the ceramic bit, nothing else) on digikey or mouser for I believe less than $10 per. Definitely something I will look into for a second iteration when I know the exact capacities I need.
5. The insulation materials you mentioned at the end are all very legit (as is the 'double walled' aspect, I have seen a few people use different panel materials for the inside vs outside, but not often). Another one Id like to throw out there is what I purchased: a type of household insulation that is a sandwhich between two thin sheets of aluminum with some of the foam (don't remember which type it is specifically) in the middle that also has 'closed cell' air bubbles in it. Can be purchased in thicknesses of something like 3mm 5mm and 10mm I believe. Also not too expensive at all & with the reflective aluminum exterior does a very good job keeping heat in. For $30 I have enough left over to cover the upper portion of my ceiling with it as well
6. Last bit: I've been using stuff like neoprene as well for making seals & while building the air filter device (basically a bofa just made out of MDF) I realized that I could buy 10-20 lever latches for like $15. Allows me to either have doors on a hinge or that completely come off while also providing a great, and adjustable, seal against the neoprene foam.
Cheers
Put the temperature sensor at the top of the enclosure. The duet will cycle the gun on and off more as the fan draws the warm air down but the duet will be satisfied with the heat cycle coming from the gun better this way.
The only thing to concern is the lifetime of this ender. I've been planning on doing this with a modified version of the voron project, but no time and no money....
Oh man that putting plastic into a slot problem was exactly what I encountered making my LACK enclosure, I wanted to make it look nicer than the ones I saw online so I cut a slot through the table and legs to fit the plastic panels with no visible retention hardware (using the exact same rotary tool saws from aliexpress actually...), I had to modify the slots wide enough for the fit to be loose and then added printed L shaped pieces of plastic to act as shims I glued in place using the side of the L that didn't sit against the plastic but instead against the table/leg. Enclosure worked great, I think dual layer walls is overkill at least for ABS etc. Hollow IKEA furniture + sheet plastic made for a very good rattle amplifier though, and I've since swapped to PLA and PETG and retired the enclosure.
Can you shar photos?
I built a chamber, have not run it to 100C since I have not replaced all the PLA parts yet ~ 70 C. I have plywood walls and put first foam 1" thick and then the bubble wrap metalized on top. To get to all the sided of the printer I attached the sided with hinges to the base so they can be folded down. The top is held in place by a step in the wooden frame and then luggage or hood clamps similar to the type used on coolers. So two neighboring sides will hold up the top. It is on a metal TV cart so I can roll it anywhere. Controls for the Tervo Tornado are under the base like yours. I have a temperature controlled heater control (think the major purchasers are for fish tanks) that I haven't hooked up. For heater and light I used light bulbs. Will us the ceramic bases in the next phase. Right not I am using extension cord models, trouble light. I didn't think I needed to make the chamber air tight but minimize leakage, the bubble wrap does this well. Insulation on all sides also means I do not needed as much heat. Climbs to 50C in about 10 to 15 minutes with one 70 watt bulb. The reason for insulating and not using a fan is to have stagnant air as much as possible. Natural convection will heat up the metal frame of the printer. And the cooling fan for the nozzle is running to mix the air.
great topic, thanks 👍
In the homebrewing/beermaking community, we repurpose minifridges into temperature controlled fermentation chambers. The temperature controllers are really cheap. Plug temperature controller into the wall, attach temp probe somewhere important, plug fridge/light bulb/ect in to relevant outlet, configure controller...
popular brand is Inkbird. Last one I got was 20-something dollars.
TLDR, if you were into beer brewing, you would have a simple solution.
...and you should learn to brew, it's fun.
The blades are for a slitting saw on a mill (or drill press in your video) - definitely not for a hand tool. So good you used them the right way.
Very cool! My one question. How does the extruder hold up? With a chamber that hot, would the plastic back up and jam?
Heat creep til the filament backs up and jams is probably not much of a issue for The higher grade materials like the nylons this was intended for would be fine. It would need to be much cooler then 100c for plas etc. But if the filament did jam. I would dial the nozzle temp down some and if still double check the retraction settings. If the print is retracting too often too much it'll pull the hot filament up too high and cause creep and jam.
Just had the same idea lol. Nice research 🤠
I have a mini delta printer. I actually keep a fan on it because it doesn't cool the filament after it's printed. It prints very nice, but sometimes on the opposing side, you can see the loss in print quality without that airflow.
I did this years ago using lack table tops for all sides of the cube with foil backed foam insulation as well. Worked well. Cost like $50 ish.
Another semi rigid panel material to consider (that is slightly less likely to ignite than thin wood and foam) - Suspended ceiling acoustical tile. Lightweight, easy to cut, fire resistant, sound suppressing, some insulation, and free at most renovation sites. Seal the edge if you cut (use a blade not a saw) as the dust is not healthy. Thanks for the 'vid and all the commenters below!
Semi right indeed :D
One wrong movement and you got a hole in your enclosure and dust everywhere :D
That polyurethane foam with foil backing...little chunks of foam are easily broken off. Pretty sure this would inevitably get tiny pieces in your prints or printer. Unless sealing the ends maybe...during construction. The pink panther stuff is alot easier to cut although it doesnt have the foil backing. Ive worked with the pink panther stuff extensively.
At least for my application...thw foil backed stuff was a no go due to the pieces that come off. The environment ive used it for was extremely windy...think 3000 250mm fans as well as a few dozen 4ft diameter 240v fans...moving a lot of heat(it was 110f inside the other day) and not wanting it to circle back into the intake. Pink panther stuff is a dream compared to foil backed...the downside being no foil backing.
Could also make a cnc hot wire foam board cutter but that wouldn't make sense unless multiple use scenario
Weird that you would question why people didn't think of double paining. I thought about doing that with wood and foam
Creality do a tent enclosure are they any good ? I wasn't sure if it would be a fire risk 😅
Thank you so much!
The other patent that you can violate ;) is feed in outside air from outside -- that is exactly what stratasys does, the funnel cool outside air directly at the part -- super directed, and they compensate with the chamber heater able to keep up.
If BL Touch don't work in higher temperatures so what to use? Which sensor will be reliable in temperatures required to print nylon and polycarbonate?
Btw. What do you think about using smaller Keenovo DC silicone heater and attatching a heatsink to it?
In reviewing this again, I wonder if the heat failure error in RepRap is functioned as a curve between current and set temperature? In other words, will you get the error if you set the temp to 45, then 70 then 100? I print a ton of ABS and am getting 50 to 54c naturally. I'd love to try 60 and 70c even though I have no current issues. It can only get better.
Which cooling system did you use to cool down the hot-end's heatsink?! Because at almost 100C it's kind of counter intuitive to use a fan to blow hot air on the heatsink. I'm curious to know what you did, because I need a solution as well. I though of using a passive cooling system or water cooling.
I've liked your "engineers point if view" since I started watching your videos, we'll done... but I've always been curious about enclosures... how does the nozzle cooling fan work when it's in a heated enclosure?
Please explain and provide detail on how that thermistor is wired into the system. Does the duet board have input terminals??
I wonder whether a peltier cooler could work... No net change of heat in the chamber but cools the air on one side for the part cooling fan
A variac on the heat gun would be even more stable than pwm.
Probably a slightly lower fire risk too
Interesting concepts!
Good effort.
i was waiting for this video thanks a lot , can you tell me what PC you use
The cheapest stuff I could find on Ebay.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Trying to decide if this is a real reply? You present yourself as an expert and therefore you must know how important the correct material choice is for any 3D printing task and you choose the cheapest PC you can find? Wow. And you choose to part cool PC? Another wow. Just build a chamber out of 1" rigid foam from Home Depot. It works great. Not sure I'm going to learn anything here any longer but if you want to try a PC that might print better than the "cheapest stuff you could find" try Poly Maker Poly Max PC, been suing it for years and it prints great.
"Why doesn't anyone use double windows in their enclosure?" question answered: cause it's a pain in the ass :))
Not to mention the real reason no one has mass produced 'budget' 3d printers with heated enclosures. Stratasys had a patent on it. Which thankfully expired at the end of last year. So now expect to start seeing them at some point.
@@PRiMETECHAU you can print ABS on a not heaten enclosure (or even without enclosure, as long as you dont move air near the bed), but it will have better accuracy on a heated enclosure since the piece will shrink more evenly after the print if the entirety of the piece is at the same temperature, not only the bottom.
Not to mention if you are going to all the effort for double pains for improved insulating value(heat retention), then you want it sealed with an inert gas in between to reduce the heat transfer through the glass because glass has jack for any R value. Enclosure good idea, method of execution was piss poor and lacks knowledge or understanding of things actually work and the effort. And a heat gun? Seriously? Safer to use a 500watt baseboard heater or a million other better methods. And you're aiming for way over 50C? Are you hoping to boil water?
I'm running a triple window, it wasn't hard at all, although the gap is only air, there's no vacuum.
I couldn't help visualising the curtain going up in flames. But good one for giving it a red hot go.
Great video, great topic. I learned very quickly as I built my printer as winter was coming on, that I need an enclosure. However, what Immediately jumped out at me was well, everything mentioned by every commenter below, the most prevalent for me? I won't be putting my printer/electronics, screen in a 100 degree celsius oven to see what fails first. Prior to going this route I'd want to pull all electronics to the outside of the "oven", then make sure the steppers and belts were able to handle that heat, etc... I think this is a great start on the topic but I'd like you to follow up with what parts fail as you move forward. Obviously this can all be done safely (yeah the plywood / heat gun / curtain behind it) and well, the way you've got it rolling, even being present, creeped me out significantly. Nonethelss, great topic!
Going to try to use plywood in my build.
I take it you haven't noticed symptoms of if off-gassing or self heating (spontaneously combusting) at 100 deg C?
There is a process you can use in the duet firmware to calibrate the heater so that it knows how fast it should expect the chamber to heat. I forget the commands but I believe it's documented in their wiki.
Yeah, I need to calibrate that. Thank you.
Thanks for all the work on the chamber.. Now, this is a hair brain idea just off the top of my head, but what if you ran an aquarium air pump to the cooling fan to help with the pillowing problem. Please excuse me, I am a total novice, but it just seemed to me the small amount of cool air would not substantially effect the print bed.
What sort of enclosure temperatures are needed. I ask because I have a garage where the summer temperature easily exceeds 130f (55c) in the summer months. The printer would "live" there do I need to worry about this?
There are people doing it! I built an enclosure for my 3d printer as well. It’s based on aluminium extrusions, flame retardant noise reducing foam, hpl plates as side panels, control panel drawer, chamber temperature control... it works great and really improves the overall print quality (not with every material..) - and it’s finally quiet. You might like it
To avoid a fire is really the focus! Don’t use wood for the final design - for technical and esthetic reasons.
I'm no expert but I've been looking at various videos about enclosures, and it seems while people get away with making air tight builds, I might try just making an enclosure just to prevent drafts and box in the heat but I don't want to let the heat build up considering alot of 3d printers as I understand have 3d printed parts inside and it's generally not good for the electronics, basically you just want the prints to retain as much heat but not the machine, I'm glad the psu seems like it was out I just jumped around the video as I'm idea shopping but I thought I'd leave some tidbits of info I picked up, and I might make a video later if my idea works out well or not.
have you tried octoPi because it has a add-on to control a heated chamber and on top of that wireless printing with video streaming.
What about using a peltier element in front of the part cooling fan, using its front end to cool the part cooler air and let the hot backend heat the chamber air. I’m thinking using this in conjunction with your existing chamber heater.
I'm a little disappointed as a woodworker you couldn't figure out how to use the PC panels. Use a router to make a slot, install a pane, then make a 1/4" spacer, install the next pane, then add the final spacer. The final side would be inside. I'm not sure it wouldn't help you all that much. It will increase the U value a bit but not as much as argon filled double pane.
Please line that box with a fire resistant coating. Wood can ignite at around 450 F. You know what in your design puts out that temperature? The heat gun. The low setting is roughly 500F. I think you were right on with those heater cores you have or something similar. It would more gradually heat the box, you might be introducing temperature variants with a strong heat source and fan.
For cooling, you could use a pipe with outside air. If you kept the stream low enough it wouldn't significantly affect heat loss and give you proper cooling. It would affect efficientcy of the system of course. It would be more difficult to implement but could try a thermoelectric cooler. If the cooling fan blew from the cold side you'd get spot cooling but wouldn't lose any system efficiency. It would actually act as a small heater overall with 100% efficiency.
Printing PEEK, PC and ZYTEL for advanced ventilator project. We have an enclosure for an ender 5+, we have multiple halogen bulbs and modified hair driers to get to 90-100c. Hotend and motors are water cooled, belts changed to high temp. Walls are made of metal laminated compressed glass wool. Base surround is Hebel. That's what you're going to need to have unattended prints without burning down your building.
Very nice video, thank you! What hotend are you using?
I have the microswiss with hardened nozzle on this printer.