Why You NEED a Heated Chamber for 3D Printing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ค. 2024
- Why do most 3D printers not have chambers, let alone heated chambers? Rob and Cole discuss the importance, in this day and age, with advanced filaments, why heated chambers are so important!
Imagine - you're printing ABS -- the layers are going down at 250c -- your print makes it up two inches, and now the bottom of the print is the bed temp, at 110c -- but the top is still hot -- now, the warping occurs, because the bottom of the part is hotter than the top of the part, and that's not even mentioning the corners and fine features of the part...
Heated chambers can fix a LOT of that.
At Vision Miner, we specialize in Functional 3D printing and 3D Scanning, especially using high-performance plastics like PEEK, ULTEM, PPSU, PPS, CFPA, and more. If you're interested in using functional 3D printing and materials in your business, feel free to reach out, and we can help you make the right choice for your application.
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One reason why we don't see a lot of desktop printers, with heated build chambers, was Stratasy's patent on a simple heated build chamber design. Which made other companies, have to figure away around it, which upped the cost. Now that their patent has expired last year, hopefully we see more printers in the lower market, have heated build chambers.
Exactly :) Cheers!
Appears to be the case.
Upgraded my Voron 2.4 with an actively heated chamber. Doesn’t make it a high temp printer, but my chamber temp is controlled and stable, greatly improved my printing experience. I will never go back to a printer without at least some form of heated chamber.
How hot do you go? I run my 2.4 with just a fan under the bed I'm able to reach 60c. BUT that's still not enough for pure PC printing
Another key aspect to keep the part warm enough during printing, is to get chamber with low convection;
- by removing fans (water-cooling)
- by reducing the cold surfaces (insulation and small doubled glazed window)
- by choosing an oversized heating system (low airflow speed and low temperature gradient)
By doing so, you got a much more stable environment over the entire volume and during the whole printing time.
For the same maximum temperature of an heated enclosure, the difference of capabilities is significant.
Why have most printers sold no chamger? PRICE. Simple like that. MOST printers are built as slow as possible. MOST likely are bed slingers. ANY chamber adds additional cost and people go for the cheapest. Simple like that - this is the ONLY answer to this question. Volume is on the low end of the market.
Love the content. Heated chambers are amazing with nylon. One topic that you could drive into is the pros and cons and design considerations of different fiber reinforcement.
Our company uses cf nylon, it's great but it can cause galvanic corrosion in humid environments. So that means you need to use stainless fasteners and coat parts with paint/resin.
Glass fill is great but it tends to be more thermally insulating. So assemblies can have higher thermal gradients. It's one of the reasons we think it's harder to print with.
I'd like to know more about Kevlar fill or other fiber reinforcement.
My first foray into this was tossing a Sidewinder in a insulated and foil lined cardboard box with a 500W heat lamp… 75C stable and man it made such a difference… albeit not the safest solution haha
Main learning lesson was how much the electronics don’t like that heat! Had to relocate everything outside
Yep!
Good discussion and I agree that a heated chamber can significantly reduce warpage and improve dimensional accuracy. However I believe that the reasons you don't see this feature around much are cost, energy consumption, reduced operational performance, design complexity, and safety.
To enclose and heat a volume of air (approx 2 - 3 cu ft) and the other 'stuff' inside the chamber area begs a significant amount of power. Heating a chamber up to let's say...70C also takes a fair amount of time which extends overall print time. And 70C is probably not going to help much in reducing warpage with more difficult materials.
Since you can't divorce the printing volume from all of the motion components, objects exposed to this temperature will likely have reduced reliability. Needless to say, linear rails, steppers, fans, belts, and other assorted bits inside the chamber don't do well at extended high temps.
Additionally I don't think this is a very safe option for casual home or light industrial use.
My ramblings are derived from my various experiences with heated chambers and it would be very interesting to discuss how this might be achieved successfully.
This is one of the most detailed and accurate comments we've ever seen, well done, good sir! check out our 22 IDEX if you haven't already :)
For my printing, a heated chamber doesn't take any longer. I don't preheat the chamber because it will heat up by the time the part needs the heat, before that, the print so far is still in the "ambient" region of the bed heat. For non-exotic plastics, I've insulated well enough that I often don't need to heat the enclosure, it heats from the bed just fine.
Cool insights to understand how high temp printing is tricky.
I have wondered about that. The patent for heated chambers has expired several years ago, and one would think printer makers would go all into this improved technology.
I use mine all the time. Helps a lot with long prints on filaments that need it.
Would like to see a video showing how to join together two similar materials, or even different materials to each other. Tips/tricks etc...
Went to lengths making a high remperature printer... now i have to print PLA with the door open or it stays floppy :D
I love this conversation-style of video, I would really enjoy a podcast
check back in a month ;)
I've almost exclusively printed with ABS on the ender 3, but have had problems with recent cold weather, ik I need to heat the chamber but not sure to what temp, best I got was 36°C just with 100°C bed
What printers are there even with a heated chamber that aren’t beyond 4k in price? Especially them also being available for a Private Person. Printing lots of outdoor stuff which will be exposed to rain, but also parts that should withstand oil and metal dust. Sometimes it’s also PP(E) for high abrasive for stuff like Vaccums. And sometimes IDEX would really bring a benefit for gears and stuff..
Your IDEX22 is a good entrance point for heated chamber printer. I own it, I can say it's easy (2 weeks with the good mindset) to master the printing of ABS, Nylon or PC and high temp thermoplastics with carbon fiber (I've only tried CF-PEKK and CF-PPA)
Absolutely! And as a note, our 22 IDEX has a lot of changes from the original AddWise machines which you likely received -- CNC aluminum parts throughout, more thermals, lots of little upgrades.... super glad to hear you've had a great experience!
Give them a call, awesome company!!
Thanks for the great video. I just bought the new Ender 3 S1 Pro - capable of 300C. The idea is to enclose it to enable me to print good 3DXTech CF Nylon parts. What would be a good heat source (element / Infra red lamps etc) to heat the chamber and what would be the ideal chamber temperature for CF Nylon? Thank you.
A PTC heater works great, but you'll run into issues with your components failing much quicker, and the frame shifting/warping since it's aluminum -- but it can be done!
@@VisionMiner Thanks for your reply and the warning about damaging the components. I will be very careful not to raise the temperature to extreme limits. I already bought the 3dXtech CF filament. If I manage to print the parts in question successfully, I will save enough money on two or three part runs to import one of your Gearbox printers. Do you have a distributor/dealer in South Africa? Alternatively, do you ship to South Africa?
I've been printing a lot of the 3DXTech GF and CF filaments, and the chamber is an absolute game changer with producing stable prints.
Also, is that a 3D Printed RB26 coil pack cover in the background, or a legit cast alloy one?
That is a legit cast alloy one, we were scanning for a customer :) GOOD EYES!
I would say most don't have one because the most commonly used filaments are PLA and PETG. So most printers are only built for that.The higher temp you go the less people use it.
Can you anneal PLA as you print if you have a 60c chamber? Or will it cause drooping or deforming?
Technically yes you can, but warping is definitely hard to avoid sometimes :)
Has AI been applied to planning with the high temp printers?
Easy enough to make a heated box for the printer.
This was all good info, why so many downvotes?
No Heated chamber = more settings, more tinkering
I've been printing nylon on a open printer, just need to put on a small room closed, kkkkkkkk. It's what we can right now.
A better title might be *When* you need a heated chamber for 3D printing, rather than why. I know it sounds like a minor nitpick, but there's an important distinction. It really depends on what your goals are, and what materials you plan to print. Even with nylon, there's blends out there like Taulman's 230/Bridge/PCTPE that print very well without a heated chamber as long as you're not in a drafty room. And yeah, I get that's not pure nylon at that point, but for many people that's all they need, which is what this video is about. Good content and discussion over all, but saying that you *need* a heated chamber is often not the case.
I want to know why it is a consensus to have a heated chamber at the glass transition temperature of the plastic. I suspect it is because the glass transition temperature happens to be the build platform temperature people ended up using. Or is the hobbyist
“concerns” just a common misconception?
If the polymer is amorpohous, as opposed to semicrystalline, that is the point where the material "relaxes" and doesn't warp nearly as much, allowing the build to be completed before cooldown, when warping occurs -- if you keep it at that temp longer, it eventually relaxes most of the part. The build plate is often much closer to the TG, yes, thus keeping it "relaxed" :)
They don't have heated chambers because it was patented. The patent just ran out, so we will see heated chambers soon. QiDi has one in their $2300 iFast.
Correct, although previously, hitting 60ºC in the chamber could be done with just a hot bed and a simple box -- so they're not technically using anything from the patent yet, but it's GREAT to see machines releasing with active heaters, regardless :)
What about SLS printed part and printer?
Those are generally always heated and fully enclosed, to keep the powder near the sintering temperature :)
2:38 Mega based easter egg. IYKYK.
;)
I heard there's a patent that keeps people from selling heated enclosures
There was, held by Stratasys, which finally expired awhile ago :) 3dprintingindustry.com/news/stratasys-heated-build-chamber-for-3d-printer-patent-us6722872b1-set-to-expire-this-week-185012/
@@VisionMiner 2020 is last year for me lmao. Thats pretty cool to hear, I hope it leads to some innovation. It is still relatively new to be able to do this, maybe some companies just didnt get the memo yet
I love the Buy an Ender 3 and learn the fundamentals!!
No kidding about the ROI on prints made from high temp materials! Love 3D printing but truly fascinated by what high temp printing has to offer. Working my way up the pyramid of filaments but HTN-CF25 has been an absolute dream to print/work with.
Awesome to hear, glad you're liking it!
With SLS, metal 3dp, resin, 3dp homes, etc., I am unsure of the market for high temp FDM.
It's a big market, but very specialized in specific use-cases, mostly aerospace, medical, oil & Gas, and electrical applications
@@VisionMiner As you guys implied, the enthusiast market doesn't identify with needing heated chambers, let alone enclosures. Plus, filament makers are producing more accessible forms of low temp filaments. Together, these seem not to make a strong business case for high temp FDM. I also took a look at Hubs' materials and processes for aerospace applications-nothing recommended involving high temp FDM. Lastly, innovation is taking it on the chin with a recession looming. Are you familiar with Ark's 3d Printing ETF ($PRNT)? It's down 50% from about a year ago.
Delta
you guys watch Phillip DeFranco
PhillyD was the first youtube Rob ever subscribed to.... I think we can see the influence!
@@VisionMiner please call us beautiful bastards!
Amazing how 3D printing basically forced the metric system and Celsius into the American mindset through the technology
Lol your way of selling parts and 3d printers is to turn people completely off of 3d printing. What a terrible channel.