This is the best "pick your class" video I've seen so far, exactly what I was looking for! The others didn't really explain the specific strenghts, weaknesses and roles of classes in pvp respectively, not to mention the impact of shamans/paladins. Good job man!
You. In the first 30 seconds explained exactly why this video was needed. EVERYONE is focusing on raiding in classic and barely ever spends more than 30 seconds discussing the PvP abilities of the classes/races. Thanks a ton!
@@J0J0McM0M0 Class design in MMORPG is not supposed to round up all classes, it would make sense that some classes hard counters others and each class has a strong identity and can shine in certain scenarios. In WOW today we don't exactly have that, all classes have self heals some sort of hard cc, ranged interrupts and so on which was done so that activision has an easier time with balancing classes. To be honest this is horrible class design, why would I pick DK over warrior or over ret pally? Sure they have some little identity left in their bigger cooldowns but overall they are the same class using the same gear. Also gear is less relevant in today pvp which takes the RPG out of MMO imho, if you do not have a reason to be equally as strong as someone else you SHOULD not, don't get me wrong I'm a casual player but I think this game is not too casual friendly. I used to walk around major cities and see these powerhouses in full raid gear with legendaries and I knew there was a huge gap between us and I respected that, I knew I would never achieve that because I did not work hard enough but I was slowly closing the gap with every month played. Today nothing is impressive anymore, the cities are still filled with people but they don't matter, it's a single player game mostly nowadays, sure you still group with people but you don't talk with them because you know you will never see them again. I remember doing BGs and recognising players on opposite factions, top players that always had most damage or KDA and the whole group would work together to prioritise them over the rest of the sheep. Today's wow is boring compared to old wow, it's a socially dead game, it's a good game with tons to do and explore but it's just about as good as any other single player rpg there.
The battlefield have changed dramatically since vanilla - back then healers were very rare, until players saw the potential and impact of their contribution. Today healers have become normalized, to the point every dps expects you to heal them. But back then you were praised and glorified. players whispered "thx for the heals m8" constantly, put on friends lists and was constantly scouted to join premades, even for PvE. Everyone should try dps, but once you give healing a try, and instantly notice how the win ratio increases - as a dps, your contribution is almost insignificant, you play for yourself, as healer you play for the team!
Silversurfer there was a historical reason for that in vanilla. In early vanilla you only got honor and honor kills if you did damage to the target, which meant that if you were healing you were not rewarded i PvP. This was eventually changed, but the effect of that design flaw lasted for a long time.
no one wants heals getting bailed out by heals from a 2nd person when you're 1v1 losing doesn't equal a win there's more dignity in just walking away or typing /sorry and then looking for another 1v1 opportunity it's totally okay to attack 1v2 with 1 of them being a healer; that's different
@@zarolikse2372 Yep... you were there. We couldn't get a healer to go with us 99 percent of the time due to this alone. Why the hell would you? I distinctly remember shams and pallys being in BGs getting pm'd to heal all the time and my buddy got so irritated by it... he would scream in chat... "IM NOT A HEALER".... lol. They were even PAYING healers to go to premades.
I don't know man, i always thanks a healer healing me, people that normalise such stuff are miles away of the mentality required to appreciate vanilla.
Vanilla pvp has no matchmaking system and ranks are obtained through grinding. Dps roamers capable of dueling (mage, lock, rogue) are by far the most efficient classes to farm honor quickly.
Thanks for the overview. I am not a good PvP player. I gank for the Horde side in the war. My goal is always to slow the enemy advancement or slow his alt creation. I’d be near worthless in endgame or Raid; not my role. I play on PvP because it adds a live element that makes the game fun, spontaneous, unexpected. When I meet a truly great opponent, one that can even slay me at five or ten levels below my character, I enjoy the majesty. Some of you are brilliant.
You're right in that most Vanilla content on youtube right now is PvE focused. This is a breath of fresh air. It's not JUST BG focused, but has a macro-sense to it, in that PvP in vanilla was as much world content as it was BGs. Subbed, and looking forward to more content.
You just picked yourself up another subscriber buddy, thank you for detailing the pvp scene more then simple 1v1's and rock-paper-scisors anecdotes like nobody else has =)
Ah, i remember the rock, scissors, paper analogy from the old video ‘How to Rogue.’ Rogue is scissors Priest, mage, warlock, hunter, druid, shaman, and paladin are paper. Warrior is rock, but rock can’t find scissors...
@@Krith220 But again, rogues COULD hide from hunters. Especially once vanish removed hunter's mark. I played a hunter in vanilla. Flares and traps held a rogue off, but you never knew if they were being super patient or had given up on you entirely and wandered off to find an easy mark.
I've already decided I'm going to roll a druid as my main and a lock as my alt, but this is exactly what I thought about the classes for PVP. This video is a must. Thank you!
I'm glad you put Drakedog in the video. He was such a huge influence for many warlock players, especially for a class where many in PvP could hardly 1v1
This is a fantastic guide, the one thing I wish Ohgee mentioned explicitly would be how much more difficult it is to heal on shamans and paladins, during this era of wow, in comparison to Priests and to a lesser extent druids. With eng. stuff it’s a tough time to cast and it’s all they can do
nice video, only thing I could think that would make it better would give a summary of each classes iconic spell with a tooltip definition breakdown for new players that might be watching. Things like Mortal Strike, Vipersting/AimedShot, Mana burn, fear/fearward. These would all be things that might give a new player a basic understanding of how the meta might work and would be a stepping stone for your channel of making more follow up videos for each class.
This man said he was gonna make a video describing each class's role in PvP, as well as their strengths and weaknesses, and I'll be damn if he didn't do just that. Perfection pal, thank you. 10/10
Yes, but hunters require space to thrive. I can dominate Un'goro crater, grabbing Devilsaurs in 1v2 situation with some difficulty. But i can't win a duel for shit, unless it's vs a cloth class and i luck out on crits.
@rhodes1986 Correction, rogues are quite easy (unless extreme gear). As are druids, you can just chain frost trap them to death. I'm not talking about dueling randoms. I'm talking about dueling skilled players, with their sights on rank 14. Staying out of range is not feasible in a duel setting, for obvious reasons. Deterrence is 11 points deep survival. Which is a great talent, if you're struggling with melee when it matters. But i'm not struggling with melees where it matters. Melees are not an issue in battlegrounds, in un'goro or at world bosses. Freeze trap is ill advised versus skilled rogues and warriors. They will almost certainly deflect it back at you. Most classes will in fact. Snaring without trap is a game of rng. Concussion shot, traps and wing clip can snare with talents, but only has a % chance to do so. And unlike later expansions, where kiting players with concussive shot is feasible for a time. In classic, it lasts for 4 seconds and has a 12 second cool down. Which is fine in open world if cast at 40 yards. But you can't run that afar away in a duel.
You guys seem to know a lot about fighting rogues as a hunter. But what if you're leveling and you get jumped by a rogue when you are BM specced and have neither Scatter Shot nor pvp-trinket? Is there still a way to win, or should you just sit down and let him kill you?
hunter is best 1v1 for duelling noobs outside the capital city in a prepared fight don't listen to these clowns hunters are autolose to mages, locks and shadowpriest
amazing video. you managed to stay very objective which is important because people will get easily defensive about their favourite classes. well done!
I still have fond memories of acquiring Lieutenant General whilst joining premades with a friend who (finally) achieved High Warlord after countless weeks and months of no-sleep and constant battlegrounds - yes, even the AV's and WSG's that went on for days on end. He did so as a 2H Enhance Shaman, which basically involved windfury procs blowing everything up so long as you gave him the opportunity to do so (which I did as a Rogue, CC'ing prime targets or preventing kiting so he could get in there and wreck faces). Good times. I can't see myself reliving yester-year again, but if I did I'd definitely go either Priest or Shaman due to being able to flit between DPS or Healing, rather than a class like Rogue (my original main) which can only ever do one role, even if they were great for PvP'ing.
The most debatable race choices are: *Orc vs Undead Rogue, Orc vs Undead Warlock,* and *Nelf vs Dwarf Hunter.* I believe Orc is slightly superior to Undead in most situations but I showed Undead because its also viable and more visually aesthetic. As for Alliance Hunter, Dwarf is clearly better against Rogues and arguably better against Warriors, but after consulting with some experienced Hunters I trust, they felt Nelf was the best all-around option due to the overall synergy Shadowmeld has with the Hunter class. Also please note that many classes have multiple viable specs as well as specs designed specifically for premading or dueling. I just showed what I feel are the best specs for *all-around PvP.* A point here and a point there can always be swapped based on your gear & personal playstyle.
that shadowmeld got me a few times. Experienced NE druids learned to use it as a ghetto vanish. You could pop shadowmeld and switch to cat form and stealth before you showed up visually again (server lag? I dunno). I played Orc as my warlock. Lore wise no other race should have access to warlock magic as it requires felblood to power but I digress.
@@Polo_Bear THIS! I've played alliance rogue once. Never again. Orc stun resist is one of the most broken racials in PVP especially against rogues. A 1v1 rogue vs rogue against an Orc will make you wanna smash your keyboard when you see both Cheap Shot and Kidney Shot resist. You are so reliant on your CC as a rogue and it procs fairly often. The Berserking cooldown can also be really good in PVE (only if you know there isn't much damage incoming because it reduces the healing you receive by 50% for 30 secs).
Great video, first PvP vid I’ve seen. I feel like you left out a few details where you could have gone deeper into detail but the. You would have had a 25+ minute video. Overall helpful and intuitive. Also the explanation in the beginning viable/optimal was perfect.
Hunters were by far the best class for PVP. I was endgame tier 3/field marshal mixed gear. Had Larvae of the great worm from Ouro as a Dwarf this made sense for the 1% crit. Also had Ashjre'thul as well if i got bored. I had 6K HP and was almost a tank in PVP. Rogues blowing all cooldowns or Warriors with extreme gear were the only problems 1v1. In a world PVP or battleground environment I demolished everything. Even one shotting some badly geared clothies. PVE DPS was good up until BWL but hunters sustained DPS doesn't scale as well as mages and rogues. By Naxx you were struggling to keep up with most classes.
@@dariollanos All situational duel rubbish. Most classes need to blow all cooldowns to even stand a chance. Hunters basically have no cooldowns so can steamroll most of the time. In world PVP and battlegrounds it is no contest as you always have the advantage of range. I also very rarely met anyone with as good a gear as me either :P
On the subject of ret paladins I do feel you were rather unfair. Assuming you are talking about WSG premades since thats by far the best way to rank up on any private realm, at least for most of the servers lifespan untill the AV changes kick in and its made much faster. While I agree that build for build most teams would prefer a holy paladin over a ret paladin very often your 10man team will already have a resto/feral druid and a holy/prot paladin running the flag, and either a priest or another holy paladin mid field. There is such a thing as to many healers on a team, Its very possible to build a good premade around having any number of ret paladins assuming they are well geared, so to say its not viable is just wrong. The last two teams I played with, both had a ret pala who reached rr14, having a dps who is immune to burst damage and can dispell and cast bop and bof is very useful. 1v1 outside of premades they can be kited but that's far harder to do in WSG, his team mates are simply not going to let you.
This. and in ERA phase 6 pvp certain talents on the ret side got stronger. Eye fore eye hits for decent dmg since caster's gear got deadly but their health pools did not. Ret's 31 talent was used by entice on apes to score huge highly competitive plays in their wsg matches and a ret in healing gear has more defensive utility with repent than holy shock; shutting down a shamen after they try to score their instagib combo is arguably more healing done than trying to cast multiple holy lights as a hpal to come back from that. Hell even the top holy paladins during classic looked at holy shock and took blessing of sanctuary instead because of its defensive opportunities against dot classes. Lots of theorycraft went into ret late classic/som/era that got overlooked massively.
Ret on classic era got nerfed too. They coded vengeance to suck. Drakova covered it. Also reckoning is coded so badly. I would say classic era paladin is the worst paladin that classic/vanilla has ever seen.
Melee hunter. 35 beast mastery and 16 survival. I played Classic mainly because fun builds and melee hunter is great. Always fun criting with a two-handed raptor strike while pet is on them :). I pefer health/stamina stacking low level but endgame gear is warlord/pvp sets mostly of course. Two-handed axe or dual-wield axe Orc/wep enchants/Bloodfury racial with bear pet are fun for a brute force rexxar type build. Shadowmeld Night Elf with stealthed Cat pet though is always fun also though for a classic pvp / Pve hunter of course.
Yeah part of why I showed those clips was to illustrate how things that were considered OP in 2006 were often only viable because 99% of players were backpedaling and had no idea how to use their abilities properly. For example, many people remember Enhance Shamans being crazy OP in Vanilla, but if you play an Enhancement Shaman in 2019 you’ll just get kited to death by anyone with a brain
@@someone-ji2zb well nothing? if intercept is jumpable and you gon get kited for days like an enha shammy with no spell absorb/heal/cleanse ghostwolf ranged slow lol
"PVP is rock-paper-scissors" you say? "Rogues are scissors." "Warriors are rock." "Hunters, paladins, priests, druids, mages, and shamans are paper." "Warlocks are mushrooms." "Paper beats rock." "Scissors beat paper." "Scissors also happen to beat rock..." "Until rock hits sixty at which point rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that also beats paper, and would beat scissors, but it can't find scissors, because scissors are invisible. So scissors beat paper and avoid rock, and that is called balance."
The stigma for meme specs will never go away, since they're mostly observed or reported on by people who have never played them extensively. There are also those who think meme specs are better than they really are due to overgearing on fun servers or broken private server mechanics. Enhance is a really good spec to learn your totems, not because you're autoattacking for most of your damage, but because your totems are what keep you on your target. Grounding/tremor are the two that instantly come to mind. When you're ranged and can use thicc lightning and frost shocks to keep a distance, you're only ever using totems when they're needed. A perfect example would be tremor totem. If a priest is running at you as ele, you know exactly what's going to happen. If you run up on a priest as enh you have to make sure your tremor is down at all times. I don't have many hours put into shaman compared to other classes, but this is just my observation from playing on Retro and LH for the past few years. As for ret paladin. There's a lot of different ways you can go about DPS paladin specs, some of which literally require 0 ret talents. When you play "ret" you tend to still play like a paladin, abuse LoS, spam cleanse/heals between swing timers, abuse mana efficiency, abuse rogues, etc. A good 50% of your damage as a memeadin is assisting other players where they fall short and adding what ever damage build you're using on top of that ( Reckoning/ShockCommand/ProccWhore ). Examples would be like freedoming a warrior, spamming cleanse on yourself, and tag teaming a mage. This is definitely the simplest trick in the book, but it's just an example. Though what Ohhgee said about experienced players abusing your shortcomings is ENTIRELY TRUE. At times you will wait a whole fight hoping that someone uses something wrong, i.e. blink, and be able to switch it around and use it to your advantage. Without reckoning, consumes, or full gadgets (engi, imp doom, etc) you will not survive most 1v1s against experienced players UNLESS you know their spec/class better than they know paladin. The only way you can really be the most effective ret/enh on your server is to know all the other classes better than everyone else, or at least at the same knowledge cap as everyone else. If you know how to play your opponent's class, better or not, you'll know when and where you need to use something. TLDR: if you play retri like you play a warrior you will think its a lot worst than it really is. sacrifice also isn't a cooldown, you big mage noob.
Everytime I tried Enhancement on my t2.5 Shaman just for one weekend I'd get pissed at the whole unreliable process of waiting for those windfury procs and would spec back into Elemental in just a few games of WSG. And yes, would have to get back into Resto in just two days for raiding.
Honestly enchant shaman is one of thoose "meme lord" class. They are like warriors but much worse as they lack both the tankiness and the defensive cooldowns AND the gapclose to reach their enemies. When they do, they don't have a reliable resource to use they just wait for RNG to do the job. Pretty weak imo.
great pvp classic video here. i only played destro warlock in vanilla but your talent tree is good. personally i would not go so deep into affliction and i'd pick up some demonology, but reach dots and amplify curse are pretty sweet. for leveling as a lock if anyone is wondering you want 5-8-11 asap for instant corruption, void walker improvement and shadow burn. respec how you prefer to get there but gold for respec is very limited in vanilla wow since it is so expensive. improved drain soul is also not to be ignored for reducing down times and i'd go with healstones over fel stamina cause spirit actually matters in vanilla. unfortunately vanilla sound effects for sburn are not as they are in the newer expansions but what are you going to do? maybe they will accidentally change this in classic. i do love the sburn sounds both the ones from cata and the newer one are pretty sweet but ya vanilla has no sound or a delayed shittier one due to the limited sound channels in vanilla (which also might be changed in classic hopefully)
Ahhh back when Different classes brought different things to the table. Not saying the current wow doesn't have the same thing. Its just a far less impact; Blizzard made it a point to homogenize common abilities so certain classes wouldn't feel left out. I enjoyed classes where you actually had to put some effort into understanding them in order to be useful.
You said at the end that you'd rather have a paladin in WSG and shamans in AB, but isn't it completely opposite? Most people I talk to say that horde has advantage in WSG because of shaman dispells on FC, but ally wins in BS fights because of un'ccable paladins?
Rogue was my main in vanilla and a shadow priest alt. Rogue build for daggers is classic 31/8/12 and hemo 21/3/27 swords/maces. Ahh see the 21/3/27 in the rogue tree after commenting. Not sure if it's still the same but a hunter can use scare beast if a druid is in animal form like a fear..
Could you please please please PLEASE! Make a no bs picking your pvp race guide? I remember in vanilla wow being a human priest and being so damn jealous about dwarfs priest! P. S. I wasn't to excited for classic wow but your videos help me recognize what I crave the most from wow!
Id argue 21/30/0 is better as a hunter, but oh well, guess it depends on offense vs defence. Edit: I guess 21/27/3 would be more optimal for strictly pvp.
Can you make a video going over gear sets for these specs? Extreme detail wouldn't be required, just a quick monologue for each like this video would be amazing. I think a video on trinkets would also be really cool.
3:14 - Actually, Eviscerate is, strictly speaking, *not* normalized; it's static. When we say that an ability is normalized, what we really mean is that it's calculations use damage per second instead of an average of the damage range. For example, Barman Shanker used to be highly sought after because of its "high top end". This referred to the fact that it hit harder than an average dagger of its quality and item level. Why did it do this? Because it was slower than an average dagger. Before abilities like Backstab were normalized, this dagger could be better than some daggers that were of supposedly higher quality. The reason why was because even though those higher quality daggers had more DPS, this one did more damage on each individual attack. This affected warriors just as much as (if not more than) rogues. For example, Arcanite Reaper used to be preferred over Runeblade of Baron Rivendare by many warriors before Mortal Strike was normalized, even though they have the same item level and the latter is epic. Blizzard eventually came to see this as an itemization balance problem, and rather than adjust the stats of all the weapons, they implemented a solution at the player ability level. As of the version of Vanilla upon which Classic is based, bread-and-butter DPS abilities that swing the weapon now incorporate the weapon's damage contribution using its DPS instead of its damage range. They do this by internally speeding up or slowing down the weapon while lowering or increasing its damage, respectively, to keep the DPS constant until the weapon reaches a "normal" speed for its normalization category: daggers, all other one-handers, or two-handers. Even though Eviscerate does require a weapon equipped in the main hand-so it cannot be used by a disarmed rogue-it does the same amount of damage no matter what weapon is equipped. Therefore, it is not "normalized", but "static" (see World of RogueCraft Episode 1: th-cam.com/video/k1t0A1cqGcw/w-d-xo.htmlm35s).
if you hhave checked drakova you will know how paladin is all about gearing and proper itemization for difrent specs and it got so much depth (im warr not pala) spellplate holy/reck with proper itemziation one hand with proc etc does so much damage for example but others that dont do it properly will suck
"Warlocks are the Mushrooms" Mushrooms > Rock, Paper, Scissor Rogue > Destruction And I guess we don't really need to talk about paper? It's NOT WORTH to even pull off ANY CDs... and btw, if a warrior can bring up to 3 healsluts with him, I will just rely on a single discipline priest (full mp5 geared to heal even with 0 mana due to mana burn with only the mp5 under heavy pressure) to become an unstoppable duo and overcome any enemies (including enemy setups with warrior + 3 healingsluts + random paper. and yeah, rogues are demoted to paper in BGs from a warlock POV). "Just so OP" - quote from Nyhm
You're Wron! ... wait a minute. No you're not, you are right. Huh,... feels weird. It's my first time encountering someone explaining it correctly. I like how you include the subtlety of the classes. Been playing since WoW alpha until BFA finally broke me, but you are right on the money. (honestly WoW midsummer beta was the best the game ever was, absolutely smokes Vanilla. They removed soooooo much content its absurd. The whiners and crybabies plus the dev exodus at launch to Arenanet crippled the game forever). The biggest lesson I have learned from Vanilla WoW was how valuable and powerful consumables were. For example everyone QQ'd about warlock fear, EV-ERY-ONE. In fact it was so bad it was pretty much the ONLY topic on the forums for awhile. So they nerfed it into the ground (mained a warlock in vanilla). I had NO protection, JUST fucking health. That's it. Rogues would jump on me like a school of piranhas and shred me to pieces everytime. Finally got fed up with it and leveled up gnomish engineering. I can't tell you how game changing gnomish net guns were. That one item allowed me to kill rogues again and to be viable again. That and frost grenades. It took a petition of 300,000 players threatening to quit playing and paying to finally get the fear nerf reversed and somewhat balanced. Also the biggest reason I won't be playing classic is the gear requirements. I like current WoW because it allows me to play casual. I can't play hardcore anymore but it makes me RAGE that player skill has no basis in this game. For example I loved to go ganking every once in a while. One of my favorite past times was to go to darkshire and hide in the secret tunnels under the cemetary (there is a tunnel that connects the two crypts and in one of the crypts there is a corner that has no light. It is the only place in the game I have found that has no light and your character will not show up unless you have glowing eyes from your race. You can perma hide unless someone targets you. It has never been fixed). Used my eye of kilrogg to find unsuspecting players leveling and would go mess with them. One day I left the tunnels and decided to check out the burnt out inn nearby. Lo and behold I found a level 60 alliance warlock in full molten core gear AFK just sitting in there with a voidwalker on passive. As we all know AFK means A Free Kill so I proceeded to, take, my free kill. Unfortunately I learned a very hard lesson about gear. I had blues and like one purple. He had his Raggy gear on. FULL BLOWN FIRE AND SHADOW PROTECTION. I must have went through 4 or 5 bars of mana. Every single spell RESISTED, except for one curse of agony. I wish I had recorded it because it was fucking ridiculous. I'm like this is stupid. This is a pvp game (learned the hardway its a crybaby pve game). Can you imagine shooting someone in call of duty and all your bullets RESISTED? He finally came back from being afk (like almost 10 minutes of me wailing on him). He sacked his voidwalker, I facepalmed, like dude you don't need to do that. He keyboard turned and used ONLY shadowbolts and slowly killed me. I raged so hard I just pulled the power cord and left to go get some food. All I had was a thrash blade and my succubus that would do ANY damage besides the words "resist". That was my first rage quit. I immediately cancelled my account and told my guild I had done so and why. Eventually they fixed that bs but that was the problem that is still lingering today is how to handle pvp. Resists were HUGE in vanilla wow. If you didn't have your fire resist up to par you couldn't come on some raids. Interesting to note though that in pvp Holy damage had no resists back then. So combat holy priests and shockadins were ridiculous and had a pretty decent time to kill ratio. It eventually was nerfed into the ground and has never made a comeback since. It really made me sad as it was a really cool way of playing. Potions were extremely powerful and it was considered bad form to use a health pot in a duel. In fact most considered it a DQ if you did. Same for lay on hands. I would spend hours farming for mats for my potion to go into Jaedenaar in Felwood so that I could use the demons as my personal bodyguards for world pvp. I would lure unsuspecting alliance rogues into the cave and pop the potion and fear them into the demons. They would get so mad and get on a horde toon to rage at me. It felt soooo good getting revenge though. Many spells required expensive components. Dropping a Doomguard or an Infernal required 1gp each time and thats when gold was VERY hard to come by. When I knew I was going to get killed in PVP, I would drop an infernal and hellfire myself. They would laugh at me but hoho I always had the last laugh. That infernal would revert back to elite status (when elites required 5 guys to actually kill) and kill everyone, including friends. I would rez myself (always had a soulstone on me) and re-enslave that infernal. It was also a great counter to the fear nerf since it would stun and AOE fire would keep the rogues visible. As for Shamans not being optimal, had this one guy on our server named Kronikus. He was a tauren shaman. Don't know how he did it but he was the most hated person on our server. His pvp skills were legendary. I know you say enhancement shamans are not optimal, but his frostshock/windfury crits were legendary. He could 1v5 without blinking and go all day long and his totem management was faster than a card trick magician. Don't know how he did it to this day. He never got banned and was reported multiple times, so he couldn't have been cheating but holy hell he was good. Of course world pvp was the thing back then (honestly I can't stand arenas and BG's - I came from DAoC where you fought on large scale battlefields and hunted the other team). We really did give Blizz alot of flak for WSG. We were waiting for months for viable pvp rewards instead of just spamming /laugh and 1337speak and then boom, capture the fucking flag. The memes ran for years. We also had one of those "mesmerizing druids" probably the most annoying alliance player. A night elf druid and he would do that midair jump flip back and forth, back and forth while spamming his abilities. It took a well coordinated 5 man to bring him down. Well skilled too, long before macros were really a thing. All in all buffs and consumables really did make or break you. Found a priest farming underwater. Pulled out my felhunter and ate her waterbreathing potion off, then sacked him and popped out my succubus and proceeded to spam seduce until she drowned. lol that shit was so funny. Waterbreathing was an actual thing back then. Could die in seconds, not hours. I really want to play Vanilla but I don't have a guild anymore and a good team requires trust and teamwork building, solo play is really hard in WoW. I MIGHT play a rogue, I dunno.
*I would lure unsuspecting alliance rogues into the cave and pop the potion and fear them into the demons. They would get so mad and get on a horde toon to rage at me.* Hmmm... that would be a lot of multiaccounts here...
underrated class. Just cause they are the "worst" dps in raids out of all the dps-spec only classes. But they are amazing in every other aspect of the game - and they are still needed in raids thanks to enrage remove ability.
Finally a real vanilla pvp guide. So many ill informed channels out there confusing retail vanilla with private server vanilla. Best pvp class guide yet.
@@MrEverisforever i dont know man, this is exactly how i remember it, granted, it was back in 2004....15years ago. I may be forgetting little bits but 100% of what he says is how i remember it. I dont know if you played in 2004 but private servers are not the same as retail, warriors got a big buff for pvp and dps and i feintly remember druids, rogues and mages got debuffs on private servers.
I remember Warlocks were like tanks against other casters because of the amount of resistance they had with their Felhunters and the amount of health they got back from their abilities. . . With paladins they were always slow at doing damage but when you come across the special ones, you’ll be done in two hits. Reck bomb and hammer. . Then you come across those special special rogues, non-stop stun lock until you’re dead. Paladin, warlock and rogue would be my Rock Paper Scissors.
Rock - paper - scissors? Warriors are rock, Rogues are scissors, all the other classes are paper. Warlocks are mushrooms. There's a twist though. Rock crushes paper and would crush scissors, but scissors are invisible so both live happily ever after.
I'm curious about Ele Sham gearing. From what I've picked up over the years, they don't really start to get their "oomf" until AQ. What's your take on this?
The hard part about ele, is actually getting the gear to begin with. Isn't like they do any real damage in raid, so taking more than 1 is going to be something only casual guilds do, and casual guilds wont be doing BWL or beyond.
@@maeris4965 If your guild allows you to switch, sure. If you roll resto and gear up as a healer, then you may or may not be allowed to keep attending raids over other DPS players if a healer now needs to be filled. Also, the gear you need as ele is very similar to that of other casters, and I guarantee you that no guild in their right mind is going to let a healer win a DPS item that their other casters still need.
Can you make another video for people like me who want to play more casually but still like PvP? One that breaks down the non optimal specs and what they are good and bad at? I really like how you present all this wonderful info but many of the specs I think sound fun are not optimal so I am still in the dark about them. I would love to see another video like this one on the non optimal specs and maybe doing a comparison to how much you are sacrificing by going down a non optimal path. Right now with just this video you really make it seem like you are just out of your mind to do anything but be optimal. I know Enhancment shaman and shadow priest aren't the best but I would still love to learn more about them as I never played classic WoW.
@James Andrew In your case it really doesn't matter, and you should play whatever attracts you the most - by your standards. Be it class fantasy, gameplay mechanics or something else entirely. Everything works ...to some degree. And you will have some glorious moments. However, whatever you choose, have in mind that there will be a lot of people that are not that casual and their gear (and skill) will be greater then yours... and you will get rekt. It's just the way it is. Don't let that discourage you tho.
You should talk about good combinations for friends grouping together. I was thinking of rolling Priest or Paladin and have a friend play a Warlock or Warrior.
@@schwann145 Agreed. There is a reason almost every grand martial was a warrior. The amount of kills you rack up is a crime... especially on a PvP server... so few people can actually deal with you out in the wild.
@@hughjazz4936 The thing that triggered me the most is that OG used clips from Pat the backpeddler. Probably one of the worst warrior the World has ever known, carried by his r14 gear and healbots. Laintime was an infinitely better warrior that made clever use of engineering and items to win 1vX scenarios. But I noticed americans tend to shill for each other, probably why he used Pat clips 🙃
@@leglonglon Laintime is my fave warrior of Vanilla hands down, but calling Pat a "bad" player, when he held R14 on his server for 2.5 months and then having seasons 1-9 gladiator on his warrior makes you look kinda stupid. Considering hes done more in the game then you ever have, but you'd never admit to yourself being trash at the game. Actually do some research before you talk.
@@mis8866 I don't get it, why do you go full ad hominem on me if you also agree that Laintime was the best vanilla PvP warrior ? 🤔 Btw, holding the r14 title for 2 months isn't a feat of skill, it only proves that he had more time than others by being student or unemployed. There isn't even a debate, Laintime literaly defined the warrior class. He was the first to showcase features such as kiting between autoattacks/instant abilities. His use of consumables/items was also incredibly advanced and clever for its time. To conclude, Pat was an entertainer. I'll not deny the entertainment value of his critmovies but Laintime was the iconic warrior of Vanilla. Prove me wrong Pat shills 🙃
I really think until release that I still haven’t decided and that I’m just going to be stuck either in the character creation menu or continuously rerolling classes
This video is very nuanced
i see what you did there.. O_O
when someone learns a new word and loves to use it a lot lol
@@Demias. He used it to state the desired meaning every time, stop projecting.
@@Demias. Big man use scary big word.
WeirdChamp
This is the best "pick your class" video I've seen so far, exactly what I was looking for! The others didn't really explain the specific strenghts, weaknesses and roles of classes in pvp respectively, not to mention the impact of shamans/paladins. Good job man!
This video is easy to learn, hard to master.
Highly nuanced 😂
Rock, Paper, Scissors, Shadow Priest.
Shamans counter shadow priests.
@@Jozua86 Then play horde shadowpriest ;-)
mushrooms win
Everything has a counter regardless
until shadow priest gets viper sting kited
You. In the first 30 seconds explained exactly why this video was needed. EVERYONE is focusing on raiding in classic and barely ever spends more than 30 seconds discussing the PvP abilities of the classes/races. Thanks a ton!
Now THIS is the content I like to see.
You produce some of the best Classic PvP content out there. MOAR PLEASE!
Icosiol THE best!
If there’s any other channels this good that I’m missing please list them here!
It really is a testament to how great class design was back then when I want to play nearly every class
No it was pretty bad class design like really bad but it was fucking fun..
@@rickeyryan303 If it's fucking fun, it's not really bad...
class design was bad^^ if you want to see wow with great class design, take a look at patch 5.4
@@J0J0McM0M0 For pvp? Hell no
@@J0J0McM0M0 Class design in MMORPG is not supposed to round up all classes, it would make sense that some classes hard counters others and each class has a strong identity and can shine in certain scenarios.
In WOW today we don't exactly have that, all classes have self heals some sort of hard cc, ranged interrupts and so on which was done so that activision has an easier time with balancing classes.
To be honest this is horrible class design, why would I pick DK over warrior or over ret pally? Sure they have some little identity left in their bigger cooldowns but overall they are the same class using the same gear.
Also gear is less relevant in today pvp which takes the RPG out of MMO imho, if you do not have a reason to be equally as strong as someone else you SHOULD not, don't get me wrong I'm a casual player but I think this game is not too casual friendly.
I used to walk around major cities and see these powerhouses in full raid gear with legendaries and I knew there was a huge gap between us and I respected that, I knew I would never achieve that because I did not work hard enough but I was slowly closing the gap with every month played.
Today nothing is impressive anymore, the cities are still filled with people but they don't matter, it's a single player game mostly nowadays, sure you still group with people but you don't talk with them because you know you will never see them again.
I remember doing BGs and recognising players on opposite factions, top players that always had most damage or KDA and the whole group would work together to prioritise them over the rest of the sheep.
Today's wow is boring compared to old wow, it's a socially dead game, it's a good game with tons to do and explore but it's just about as good as any other single player rpg there.
The battlefield have changed dramatically since vanilla - back then healers were very rare, until players saw the potential and impact of their contribution. Today healers have become normalized, to the point every dps expects you to heal them. But back then you were praised and glorified. players whispered "thx for the heals m8" constantly, put on friends lists and was constantly scouted to join premades, even for PvE. Everyone should try dps, but once you give healing a try, and instantly notice how the win ratio increases - as a dps, your contribution is almost insignificant, you play for yourself, as healer you play for the team!
Silversurfer there was a historical reason for that in vanilla. In early vanilla you only got honor and honor kills if you did damage to the target, which meant that if you were healing you were not rewarded i PvP. This was eventually changed, but the effect of that design flaw lasted for a long time.
no one wants heals
getting bailed out by heals from a 2nd person when you're 1v1 losing doesn't equal a win
there's more dignity in just walking away or typing /sorry and then looking for another 1v1 opportunity
it's totally okay to attack 1v2 with 1 of them being a healer; that's different
@@zarolikse2372 Yep... you were there. We couldn't get a healer to go with us 99 percent of the time due to this alone. Why the hell would you? I distinctly remember shams and pallys being in BGs getting pm'd to heal all the time and my buddy got so irritated by it... he would scream in chat... "IM NOT A HEALER".... lol. They were even PAYING healers to go to premades.
I don't know man, i always thanks a healer healing me, people that normalise such stuff are miles away of the mentality required to appreciate vanilla.
Vanilla pvp has no matchmaking system and ranks are obtained through grinding. Dps roamers capable of dueling (mage, lock, rogue) are by far the most efficient classes to farm honor quickly.
Thanks for the overview. I am not a good PvP player. I gank for the Horde side in the war. My goal is always to slow the enemy advancement or slow his alt creation. I’d be near worthless in endgame or Raid; not my role. I play on PvP because it adds a live element that makes the game fun, spontaneous, unexpected. When I meet a truly great opponent, one that can even slay me at five or ten levels below my character, I enjoy the majesty. Some of you are brilliant.
You're right in that most Vanilla content on youtube right now is PvE focused. This is a breath of fresh air. It's not JUST BG focused, but has a macro-sense to it, in that PvP in vanilla was as much world content as it was BGs.
Subbed, and looking forward to more content.
Bro he said paladins have no real offensive power. Literally just talking about bgs
You just picked yourself up another subscriber buddy, thank you for detailing the pvp scene more then simple 1v1's and rock-paper-scisors anecdotes like nobody else has =)
Ah, i remember the rock, scissors, paper analogy from the old video ‘How to Rogue.’
Rogue is scissors
Priest, mage, warlock, hunter, druid, shaman, and paladin are paper.
Warrior is rock, but rock can’t find scissors...
warlocks were mushrooms ;)
Spot on! th-cam.com/video/WW0GUNfJvjA/w-d-xo.html
Yep, the rogue that created it is Mute.
hunter is definitely not paper to a rogue, more like a direct counter
@@Krith220 But again, rogues COULD hide from hunters. Especially once vanish removed hunter's mark. I played a hunter in vanilla. Flares and traps held a rogue off, but you never knew if they were being super patient or had given up on you entirely and wandered off to find an easy mark.
I've already decided I'm going to roll a druid as my main and a lock as my alt, but this is exactly what I thought about the classes for PVP. This video is a must. Thank you!
Dont roll a druid
I'm glad you put Drakedog in the video. He was such a huge influence for many warlock players, especially for a class where many in PvP could hardly 1v1
absolutely brilliant summary - thank you for TOP quality content like this
Man best class choosing guide ive seen so far, not just ''The class is amazing, its so insane blablabla'' just concrete facts, thanks
This is a fantastic guide, the one thing I wish Ohgee mentioned explicitly would be how much more difficult it is to heal on shamans and paladins, during this era of wow, in comparison to Priests and to a lesser extent druids. With eng. stuff it’s a tough time to cast and it’s all they can do
Poop 000ppp I'll 0p😅😮002😮 poop😅0😅😊😊😅😊 14:33
Solid video man you summed up every class perfectly
Awesome videos, wish it was longer.
Especially talking about the different offensive vs defensive roles of paladins vs shamans.
Would be cool if you made a similar guide talking about the two factions. The various pros and cons, and which faction to go for when it comes to PvP.
Horde racials are definitely better for pvp. Orc or undead are pretty much always the right choice, their racials are super OP
@@Avanorne
I know, but Paladins arguably give the Alliance and edge in group PvP still. The Alliance also might have strategical edges in BG's.
@@throttle1000 they may for sure, purely on racials the horde have it though. Wotf and hardiness are just too good.
nice video, only thing I could think that would make it better would give a summary of each classes iconic spell with a tooltip definition breakdown for new players that might be watching. Things like Mortal Strike, Vipersting/AimedShot, Mana burn, fear/fearward. These would all be things that might give a new player a basic understanding of how the meta might work and would be a stepping stone for your channel of making more follow up videos for each class.
Rank 12 ele-resto shaman here, agree almost every word in the video, nicely done.
Maybe you can help me choose between Hunter/Lock/Mage for PvP/World PvP/Battlegrounds
This man said he was gonna make a video describing each class's role in PvP, as well as their strengths and weaknesses, and I'll be damn if he didn't do just that. Perfection pal, thank you. 10/10
>Most classes are soft countered by Hunter
>And that's all right.
Yes, but hunters require space to thrive. I can dominate Un'goro crater, grabbing Devilsaurs in 1v2 situation with some difficulty. But i can't win a duel for shit, unless it's vs a cloth class and i luck out on crits.
@rhodes1986 Correction, rogues are quite easy (unless extreme gear). As are druids, you can just chain frost trap them to death. I'm not talking about dueling randoms. I'm talking about dueling skilled players, with their sights on rank 14. Staying out of range is not feasible in a duel setting, for obvious reasons.
Deterrence is 11 points deep survival. Which is a great talent, if you're struggling with melee when it matters. But i'm not struggling with melees where it matters. Melees are not an issue in battlegrounds, in un'goro or at world bosses.
Freeze trap is ill advised versus skilled rogues and warriors. They will almost certainly deflect it back at you. Most classes will in fact.
Snaring without trap is a game of rng. Concussion shot, traps and wing clip can snare with talents, but only has a % chance to do so. And unlike later expansions, where kiting players with concussive shot is feasible for a time. In classic, it lasts for 4 seconds and has a 12 second cool down. Which is fine in open world if cast at 40 yards. But you can't run that afar away in a duel.
You guys seem to know a lot about fighting rogues as a hunter. But what if you're leveling and you get jumped by a rogue when you are BM specced and have neither Scatter Shot nor pvp-trinket? Is there still a way to win, or should you just sit down and let him kill you?
hunter is best 1v1 for duelling noobs outside the capital city in a prepared fight
don't listen to these clowns
hunters are autolose to mages, locks and shadowpriest
@@RW77777777 Lol... hunters counter mages and shadowpriests xD.... and if the are BM, they can counter locks too.
This video is still helpful in 2021. Really good video, good context without being too much info.
amazing video. you managed to stay very objective which is important because people will get easily defensive about their favourite classes. well done!
I still have fond memories of acquiring Lieutenant General whilst joining premades with a friend who (finally) achieved High Warlord after countless weeks and months of no-sleep and constant battlegrounds - yes, even the AV's and WSG's that went on for days on end. He did so as a 2H Enhance Shaman, which basically involved windfury procs blowing everything up so long as you gave him the opportunity to do so (which I did as a Rogue, CC'ing prime targets or preventing kiting so he could get in there and wreck faces).
Good times. I can't see myself reliving yester-year again, but if I did I'd definitely go either Priest or Shaman due to being able to flit between DPS or Healing, rather than a class like Rogue (my original main) which can only ever do one role, even if they were great for PvP'ing.
Great video I'm surprised you only have 3k subs. Keep up the good work my dude, you could easily get over 50k
You are one of the only of today's youtubers, who actually still breaths between words. Thank you for this.
The most debatable race choices are: *Orc vs Undead Rogue, Orc vs Undead Warlock,* and *Nelf vs Dwarf Hunter.* I believe Orc is slightly superior to Undead in most situations but I showed Undead because its also viable and more visually aesthetic. As for Alliance Hunter, Dwarf is clearly better against Rogues and arguably better against Warriors, but after consulting with some experienced Hunters I trust, they felt Nelf was the best all-around option due to the overall synergy Shadowmeld has with the Hunter class. Also please note that many classes have multiple viable specs as well as specs designed specifically for premading or dueling. I just showed what I feel are the best specs for *all-around PvP.* A point here and a point there can always be swapped based on your gear & personal playstyle.
human females are best for being naked. l2play.
yes pvp naked. it's the only way to even the playing field.
that shadowmeld got me a few times. Experienced NE druids learned to use it as a ghetto vanish. You could pop shadowmeld and switch to cat form and stealth before you showed up visually again (server lag? I dunno). I played Orc as my warlock. Lore wise no other race should have access to warlock magic as it requires felblood to power but I digress.
@@John_Conner222The thing about Shadowmeld was you could not use it in combat, so it is nothing like vanish and no more useful than stealth/prowl.
If you're playing horde and can be orc, be orc. Stuns are huge in vanilla.
@@Polo_Bear THIS!
I've played alliance rogue once. Never again.
Orc stun resist is one of the most broken racials in PVP especially against rogues. A 1v1 rogue vs rogue against an Orc will make you wanna smash your keyboard when you see both Cheap Shot and Kidney Shot resist. You are so reliant on your CC as a rogue and it procs fairly often.
The Berserking cooldown can also be really good in PVE (only if you know there isn't much damage incoming because it reduces the healing you receive by 50% for 30 secs).
Great video, first PvP vid I’ve seen. I feel like you left out a few details where you could have gone deeper into detail but the. You would have had a 25+ minute video. Overall helpful and intuitive. Also the explanation in the beginning viable/optimal was perfect.
Classes fullfilled different roles with different strengths and weaknesses? I'm already in tears
i'm watching a lot of classic videos, but this has to be one of my favorites
10/10 ofc
The little Payo ofc
Payo is very nuanced
Hunters were by far the best class for PVP. I was endgame tier 3/field marshal mixed gear. Had Larvae of the great worm from Ouro as a Dwarf this made sense for the 1% crit. Also had Ashjre'thul as well if i got bored. I had 6K HP and was almost a tank in PVP. Rogues blowing all cooldowns or Warriors with extreme gear were the only problems 1v1. In a world PVP or battleground environment I demolished everything. Even one shotting some badly geared clothies. PVE DPS was good up until BWL but hunters sustained DPS doesn't scale as well as mages and rogues. By Naxx you were struggling to keep up with most classes.
hey, so only rogues and warriors were a problem? i thought spriest and locks were the hardest to beat as a hunter, and vs mage would 50/50.
@@dariollanos All situational duel rubbish. Most classes need to blow all cooldowns to even stand a chance. Hunters basically have no cooldowns so can steamroll most of the time. In world PVP and battlegrounds it is no contest as you always have the advantage of range. I also very rarely met anyone with as good a gear as me either :P
On the subject of ret paladins I do feel you were rather unfair. Assuming you are talking about WSG premades since thats by far the best way to rank up on any private realm, at least for most of the servers lifespan untill the AV changes kick in and its made much faster. While I agree that build for build most teams would prefer a holy paladin over a ret paladin very often your 10man team will already have a resto/feral druid and a holy/prot paladin running the flag, and either a priest or another holy paladin mid field. There is such a thing as to many healers on a team, Its very possible to build a good premade around having any number of ret paladins assuming they are well geared, so to say its not viable is just wrong. The last two teams I played with, both had a ret pala who reached rr14, having a dps who is immune to burst damage and can dispell and cast bop and bof is very useful. 1v1 outside of premades they can be kited but that's far harder to do in WSG, his team mates are simply not going to let you.
This. and in ERA phase 6 pvp certain talents on the ret side got stronger. Eye fore eye hits for decent dmg since caster's gear got deadly but their health pools did not. Ret's 31 talent was used by entice on apes to score huge highly competitive plays in their wsg matches and a ret in healing gear has more defensive utility with repent than holy shock; shutting down a shamen after they try to score their instagib combo is arguably more healing done than trying to cast multiple holy lights as a hpal to come back from that. Hell even the top holy paladins during classic looked at holy shock and took blessing of sanctuary instead because of its defensive opportunities against dot classes.
Lots of theorycraft went into ret late classic/som/era that got overlooked massively.
Ret on classic era got nerfed too. They coded vengeance to suck. Drakova covered it. Also reckoning is coded so badly. I would say classic era paladin is the worst paladin that classic/vanilla has ever seen.
Great video, to the point and literally no "bs" as the title suggest! Awesome stuff!
As much as I'd love to revisit classic.. i do not have anywhere near the amount of time required to grind feral gear.
Melee hunter. 35 beast mastery and 16 survival. I played Classic mainly because fun builds and melee hunter is great. Always fun criting with a two-handed raptor strike while pet is on them :). I pefer health/stamina stacking low level but endgame gear is warlord/pvp sets mostly of course. Two-handed axe or dual-wield axe Orc/wep enchants/Bloodfury racial with bear pet are fun for a brute force rexxar type build. Shadowmeld Night Elf with stealthed Cat pet though is always fun also though for a classic pvp / Pve hunter of course.
That warrior 1shots people but he is clicking enrage and battleshout .. so good
Yeah part of why I showed those clips was to illustrate how things that were considered OP in 2006 were often only viable because 99% of players were backpedaling and had no idea how to use their abilities properly. For example, many people remember Enhance Shamans being crazy OP in Vanilla, but if you play an Enhancement Shaman in 2019 you’ll just get kited to death by anyone with a brain
@@OhhgeeHaptixGaming Yea, now imagine warriors who don't click, keyboard turn and are fast to act with good internet. OH boy...
@@someone-ji2zb well nothing? if intercept is jumpable and you gon get kited for days like an enha shammy with no spell absorb/heal/cleanse ghostwolf ranged slow lol
Everyday Im more confused about what to role :(
He made it pretty clear. If you're confused, go Hunter. :>
what did you finally pick?
You got the message guys, hunter is the way to go of course !
No worries for the help Ohhgee
Hell yeah! Traque upload more videos soon :D
Or streaming would work too xD
Working on it ;)
"PVP is rock-paper-scissors" you say?
"Rogues are scissors."
"Warriors are rock."
"Hunters, paladins, priests, druids, mages, and shamans are paper."
"Warlocks are mushrooms."
"Paper beats rock."
"Scissors beat paper."
"Scissors also happen to beat rock..."
"Until rock hits sixty at which point rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that also beats paper, and would beat scissors, but it can't find scissors, because scissors are invisible. So scissors beat paper and avoid rock, and that is called balance."
Really informative and well researched content. Subbed please keep this kind of content coming!
now that's the content i was desperatly searching for, might check this out again once or twice before the release.
As always, the only reliable pvp classic channel there is. its like listening to a spot commentator who played the sport vs a fan.
Wonderful content. Thorough, covered all bases, knowledgeable, no frills. Well earned sub!
The stigma for meme specs will never go away, since they're mostly observed or reported on by people who have never played them extensively. There are also those who think meme specs are better than they really are due to overgearing on fun servers or broken private server mechanics.
Enhance is a really good spec to learn your totems, not because you're autoattacking for most of your damage, but because your totems are what keep you on your target. Grounding/tremor are the two that instantly come to mind. When you're ranged and can use thicc lightning and frost shocks to keep a distance, you're only ever using totems when they're needed. A perfect example would be tremor totem. If a priest is running at you as ele, you know exactly what's going to happen. If you run up on a priest as enh you have to make sure your tremor is down at all times.
I don't have many hours put into shaman compared to other classes, but this is just my observation from playing on Retro and LH for the past few years.
As for ret paladin. There's a lot of different ways you can go about DPS paladin specs, some of which literally require 0 ret talents. When you play "ret" you tend to still play like a paladin, abuse LoS, spam cleanse/heals between swing timers, abuse mana efficiency, abuse rogues, etc. A good 50% of your damage as a memeadin is assisting other players where they fall short and adding what ever damage build you're using on top of that ( Reckoning/ShockCommand/ProccWhore ). Examples would be like freedoming a warrior, spamming cleanse on yourself, and tag teaming a mage. This is definitely the simplest trick in the book, but it's just an example.
Though what Ohhgee said about experienced players abusing your shortcomings is ENTIRELY TRUE. At times you will wait a whole fight hoping that someone uses something wrong, i.e. blink, and be able to switch it around and use it to your advantage. Without reckoning, consumes, or full gadgets (engi, imp doom, etc) you will not survive most 1v1s against experienced players UNLESS you know their spec/class better than they know paladin.
The only way you can really be the most effective ret/enh on your server is to know all the other classes better than everyone else, or at least at the same knowledge cap as everyone else. If you know how to play your opponent's class, better or not, you'll know when and where you need to use something.
TLDR: if you play retri like you play a warrior you will think its a lot worst than it really is.
sacrifice also isn't a cooldown, you big mage noob.
As an ex Vanilla Rank 14 Warrior i agree with this video even reminded me how things were.
Optimal or not im still going enhancement. Nice video!
Cant spell Windfury without win!
Very informative simple but also in depth video.
Druid + warrior duo PVP is insane
Not in vanilla, druid cant dispell warrior if cced
Everytime I tried Enhancement on my t2.5 Shaman just for one weekend I'd get pissed at the whole unreliable process of waiting for those windfury procs and would spec back into Elemental in just a few games of WSG.
And yes, would have to get back into Resto in just two days for raiding.
Honestly enchant shaman is one of thoose "meme lord" class. They are like warriors but much worse as they lack both the tankiness and the defensive cooldowns AND the gapclose to reach their enemies. When they do, they don't have a reliable resource to use they just wait for RNG to do the job. Pretty weak imo.
great pvp classic video here. i only played destro warlock in vanilla but your talent tree is good. personally i would not go so deep into affliction and i'd pick up some demonology, but reach dots and amplify curse are pretty sweet.
for leveling as a lock if anyone is wondering you want 5-8-11 asap for instant corruption, void walker improvement and shadow burn. respec how you prefer to get there but gold for respec is very limited in vanilla wow since it is so expensive. improved drain soul is also not to be ignored for reducing down times and i'd go with healstones over fel stamina cause spirit actually matters in vanilla.
unfortunately vanilla sound effects for sburn are not as they are in the newer expansions but what are you going to do? maybe they will accidentally change this in classic. i do love the sburn sounds both the ones from cata and the newer one are pretty sweet but ya vanilla has no sound or a delayed shittier one due to the limited sound channels in vanilla (which also might be changed in classic hopefully)
Found this so useful would love to be able to pick your brain on the lock
Hunting rogues with the hunter was always fun. When I still played. Like 15 years ago or so :-)
Ahhh back when Different classes brought different things to the table. Not saying the current wow doesn't have the same thing. Its just a far less impact; Blizzard made it a point to homogenize common abilities so certain classes wouldn't feel left out. I enjoyed classes where you actually had to put some effort into understanding them in order to be useful.
Homogenized?
No way, I like the ladies...
I appreciate the time you spent creating this video. Subscribed for quality content keep doin ya thing.
You said at the end that you'd rather have a paladin in WSG and shamans in AB, but isn't it completely opposite? Most people I talk to say that horde has advantage in WSG because of shaman dispells on FC, but ally wins in BS fights because of un'ccable paladins?
It's ages ago since i last saw Pat pvp! i loved him back then! :D
Finally a class guide where the creator actually knows what he's talking about. More of these please!
He was wrong about quite a lot in this video.
Rogue was my main in vanilla and a shadow priest alt.
Rogue build for daggers is classic 31/8/12 and hemo 21/3/27 swords/maces.
Ahh see the 21/3/27 in the rogue tree after commenting.
Not sure if it's still the same but a hunter can use scare beast if a druid is in animal form like a fear..
Played warrior for 5000+ Houers ... going stay warrior :)
You a real one.
I’m stuck on picking rogue, hunter, or Druid. Mainly doing just pvp.
TLDR; All classes are:
- 1v1 gods
- easy to pick up and difficult to master
- nuanced
Could you please please please PLEASE! Make a no bs picking your pvp race guide?
I remember in vanilla wow being a human priest and being so damn jealous about dwarfs priest!
P. S. I wasn't to excited for classic wow but your videos help me recognize what I crave the most from wow!
Rock/paper/scissors
Lord here come the roguecraft flashbacks
Warlocks are mushrooms
@@BboyIcy55 Mushrooms get everybody stoned.
@@Mammel248 Whoa, brooo. I'm like... sooooooul stoned right now.
You are the man,very good no bullshit video.
Id argue 21/30/0 is better as a hunter, but oh well, guess it depends on offense vs defence.
Edit: I guess 21/27/3 would be more optimal for strictly pvp.
Can you make a video going over gear sets for these specs? Extreme detail wouldn't be required, just a quick monologue for each like this video would be amazing. I think a video on trinkets would also be really cool.
3:14 - Actually, Eviscerate is, strictly speaking, *not* normalized; it's static. When we say that an ability is normalized, what we really mean is that it's calculations use damage per second instead of an average of the damage range.
For example, Barman Shanker used to be highly sought after because of its "high top end". This referred to the fact that it hit harder than an average dagger of its quality and item level. Why did it do this? Because it was slower than an average dagger. Before abilities like Backstab were normalized, this dagger could be better than some daggers that were of supposedly higher quality. The reason why was because even though those higher quality daggers had more DPS, this one did more damage on each individual attack. This affected warriors just as much as (if not more than) rogues. For example, Arcanite Reaper used to be preferred over Runeblade of Baron Rivendare by many warriors before Mortal Strike was normalized, even though they have the same item level and the latter is epic.
Blizzard eventually came to see this as an itemization balance problem, and rather than adjust the stats of all the weapons, they implemented a solution at the player ability level. As of the version of Vanilla upon which Classic is based, bread-and-butter DPS abilities that swing the weapon now incorporate the weapon's damage contribution using its DPS instead of its damage range. They do this by internally speeding up or slowing down the weapon while lowering or increasing its damage, respectively, to keep the DPS constant until the weapon reaches a "normal" speed for its normalization category: daggers, all other one-handers, or two-handers.
Even though Eviscerate does require a weapon equipped in the main hand-so it cannot be used by a disarmed rogue-it does the same amount of damage no matter what weapon is equipped. Therefore, it is not "normalized", but "static" (see World of RogueCraft Episode 1: th-cam.com/video/k1t0A1cqGcw/w-d-xo.htmlm35s).
Watched this 4 times, still don’t know what to play😭
Then, druid. ;)
@@johncoffee5837 Rock, Paper, Scissors...Grim Reaper
Watch more
I'll definitely roll a healer...but as an alt. Because my main is, was and will always be the WARRIOR!
I think them main thing we all learned here is that room need re painting.
great, now I want to roll them all
HoTW + NS for druid is the way I would do it.
if you hhave checked drakova you will know how paladin is all about gearing and proper itemization for difrent specs and it got so much depth (im warr not pala) spellplate holy/reck with proper itemziation one hand with proc etc does so much damage for example but others that dont do it properly will suck
How come you dont mention the elemental mage spec? Its a way of playing mage that's unique to classic.
Yeah but it was gimped and garbage.
you should ahve started with saying any calss is easy to pick up but hard to amster if u repeat it at every calss it doesn't give it much value at all
You didn’t link Druid build in the description. Just more proof they are the forgotten class of vanilla 😉
Lol oops, I’ll fix that
Because he doesn't know fuck all about how good a geard feral druid can be. This guys a moron.
He certainly knows a lot about classic pvp, but you're right; a good geared Feral Druid can absolutely Shred through the opposition. (no pun intended)
@@taylenday treu that. I got killed a tons by druid.. they are so moveable
"Warlocks are the Mushrooms"
Mushrooms > Rock, Paper, Scissor
Rogue > Destruction
And I guess we don't really need to talk about paper? It's NOT WORTH to even pull off ANY CDs...
and btw, if a warrior can bring up to 3 healsluts with him, I will just rely on a single discipline priest (full mp5 geared to heal even with 0 mana due to mana burn with only the mp5 under heavy pressure) to become an unstoppable duo and overcome any enemies (including enemy setups with warrior + 3 healingsluts + random paper. and yeah, rogues are demoted to paper in BGs from a warlock POV).
"Just so OP" - quote from Nyhm
You're Wron! ... wait a minute. No you're not, you are right. Huh,... feels weird. It's my first time encountering someone explaining it correctly. I like how you include the subtlety of the classes. Been playing since WoW alpha until BFA finally broke me, but you are right on the money. (honestly WoW midsummer beta was the best the game ever was, absolutely smokes Vanilla. They removed soooooo much content its absurd. The whiners and crybabies plus the dev exodus at launch to Arenanet crippled the game forever).
The biggest lesson I have learned from Vanilla WoW was how valuable and powerful consumables were. For example everyone QQ'd about warlock fear, EV-ERY-ONE. In fact it was so bad it was pretty much the ONLY topic on the forums for awhile. So they nerfed it into the ground (mained a warlock in vanilla). I had NO protection, JUST fucking health. That's it. Rogues would jump on me like a school of piranhas and shred me to pieces everytime. Finally got fed up with it and leveled up gnomish engineering. I can't tell you how game changing gnomish net guns were. That one item allowed me to kill rogues again and to be viable again. That and frost grenades. It took a petition of 300,000 players threatening to quit playing and paying to finally get the fear nerf reversed and somewhat balanced. Also the biggest reason I won't be playing classic is the gear requirements. I like current WoW because it allows me to play casual. I can't play hardcore anymore but it makes me RAGE that player skill has no basis in this game.
For example I loved to go ganking every once in a while. One of my favorite past times was to go to darkshire and hide in the secret tunnels under the cemetary (there is a tunnel that connects the two crypts and in one of the crypts there is a corner that has no light. It is the only place in the game I have found that has no light and your character will not show up unless you have glowing eyes from your race. You can perma hide unless someone targets you. It has never been fixed). Used my eye of kilrogg to find unsuspecting players leveling and would go mess with them. One day I left the tunnels and decided to check out the burnt out inn nearby. Lo and behold I found a level 60 alliance warlock in full molten core gear AFK just sitting in there with a voidwalker on passive. As we all know AFK means A Free Kill so I proceeded to, take, my free kill. Unfortunately I learned a very hard lesson about gear. I had blues and like one purple. He had his Raggy gear on. FULL BLOWN FIRE AND SHADOW PROTECTION. I must have went through 4 or 5 bars of mana. Every single spell RESISTED, except for one curse of agony. I wish I had recorded it because it was fucking ridiculous. I'm like this is stupid. This is a pvp game (learned the hardway its a crybaby pve game). Can you imagine shooting someone in call of duty and all your bullets RESISTED? He finally came back from being afk (like almost 10 minutes of me wailing on him). He sacked his voidwalker, I facepalmed, like dude you don't need to do that. He keyboard turned and used ONLY shadowbolts and slowly killed me. I raged so hard I just pulled the power cord and left to go get some food. All I had was a thrash blade and my succubus that would do ANY damage besides the words "resist". That was my first rage quit. I immediately cancelled my account and told my guild I had done so and why. Eventually they fixed that bs but that was the problem that is still lingering today is how to handle pvp.
Resists were HUGE in vanilla wow. If you didn't have your fire resist up to par you couldn't come on some raids. Interesting to note though that in pvp Holy damage had no resists back then. So combat holy priests and shockadins were ridiculous and had a pretty decent time to kill ratio. It eventually was nerfed into the ground and has never made a comeback since. It really made me sad as it was a really cool way of playing.
Potions were extremely powerful and it was considered bad form to use a health pot in a duel. In fact most considered it a DQ if you did. Same for lay on hands. I would spend hours farming for mats for my potion to go into Jaedenaar in Felwood so that I could use the demons as my personal bodyguards for world pvp. I would lure unsuspecting alliance rogues into the cave and pop the potion and fear them into the demons. They would get so mad and get on a horde toon to rage at me. It felt soooo good getting revenge though. Many spells required expensive components. Dropping a Doomguard or an Infernal required 1gp each time and thats when gold was VERY hard to come by. When I knew I was going to get killed in PVP, I would drop an infernal and hellfire myself. They would laugh at me but hoho I always had the last laugh. That infernal would revert back to elite status (when elites required 5 guys to actually kill) and kill everyone, including friends. I would rez myself (always had a soulstone on me) and re-enslave that infernal. It was also a great counter to the fear nerf since it would stun and AOE fire would keep the rogues visible.
As for Shamans not being optimal, had this one guy on our server named Kronikus. He was a tauren shaman. Don't know how he did it but he was the most hated person on our server. His pvp skills were legendary. I know you say enhancement shamans are not optimal, but his frostshock/windfury crits were legendary. He could 1v5 without blinking and go all day long and his totem management was faster than a card trick magician. Don't know how he did it to this day. He never got banned and was reported multiple times, so he couldn't have been cheating but holy hell he was good. Of course world pvp was the thing back then (honestly I can't stand arenas and BG's - I came from DAoC where you fought on large scale battlefields and hunted the other team). We really did give Blizz alot of flak for WSG. We were waiting for months for viable pvp rewards instead of just spamming /laugh and 1337speak and then boom, capture the fucking flag. The memes ran for years. We also had one of those "mesmerizing druids" probably the most annoying alliance player. A night elf druid and he would do that midair jump flip back and forth, back and forth while spamming his abilities. It took a well coordinated 5 man to bring him down. Well skilled too, long before macros were really a thing.
All in all buffs and consumables really did make or break you. Found a priest farming underwater. Pulled out my felhunter and ate her waterbreathing potion off, then sacked him and popped out my succubus and proceeded to spam seduce until she drowned. lol that shit was so funny. Waterbreathing was an actual thing back then. Could die in seconds, not hours. I really want to play Vanilla but I don't have a guild anymore and a good team requires trust and teamwork building, solo play is really hard in WoW. I MIGHT play a rogue, I dunno.
It was a pleasure reading all that, thank you.
You're a legend, dude!
*I would lure unsuspecting alliance rogues into the cave and pop the potion and fear them into the demons. They would get so mad and get on a horde toon to rage at me.*
Hmmm... that would be a lot of multiaccounts here...
I never ever considered playing hunter, but this made me think maybe I should
underrated class. Just cause they are the "worst" dps in raids out of all the dps-spec only classes. But they are amazing in every other aspect of the game - and they are still needed in raids thanks to enrage remove ability.
I kited a full HWL warrior when I was in blues as a hunter, he was like WTF lmao
BEST FKING CLASSIC PVP VIDEO OUT THERE
Finally a real vanilla pvp guide. So many ill informed channels out there confusing retail vanilla with private server vanilla. Best pvp class guide yet.
But he's wrong here too. Especially for druids
@@MrEverisforever i dont know man, this is exactly how i remember it, granted, it was back in 2004....15years ago. I may be forgetting little bits but 100% of what he says is how i remember it. I dont know if you played in 2004 but private servers are not the same as retail, warriors got a big buff for pvp and dps and i feintly remember druids, rogues and mages got debuffs on private servers.
Shadowpriest and Rogue were the most broken ones in PvP
also both classes don´t need insane gear to be op
You're wrong sir. Mage/rogue/priest was the best combo for many seasons
I remember Warlocks were like tanks against other casters because of the amount of resistance they had with their Felhunters and the amount of health they got back from their abilities. . . With paladins they were always slow at doing damage but when you come across the special ones, you’ll be done in two hits. Reck bomb and hammer. . Then you come across those special special rogues, non-stop stun lock until you’re dead. Paladin, warlock and rogue would be my Rock Paper Scissors.
Rock - paper - scissors? Warriors are rock, Rogues are scissors, all the other classes are paper. Warlocks are mushrooms. There's a twist though. Rock crushes paper and would crush scissors, but scissors are invisible so both live happily ever after.
This is like watching one of those 90's school educational shows back in Elementary. I love it. lol
I'm curious about Ele Sham gearing. From what I've picked up over the years, they don't really start to get their "oomf" until AQ. What's your take on this?
discord.gg/StmYsu
Check the resources channel.
BWL geared ele shamans can do some serious ass burst ^^
The hard part about ele, is actually getting the gear to begin with. Isn't like they do any real damage in raid, so taking more than 1 is going to be something only casual guilds do, and casual guilds wont be doing BWL or beyond.
@@someone-ji2zb Just roll resto for the time being and respec.
@@maeris4965 If your guild allows you to switch, sure. If you roll resto and gear up as a healer, then you may or may not be allowed to keep attending raids over other DPS players if a healer now needs to be filled.
Also, the gear you need as ele is very similar to that of other casters, and I guarantee you that no guild in their right mind is going to let a healer win a DPS item that their other casters still need.
Can you make another video for people like me who want to play more casually but still like PvP? One that breaks down the non optimal specs and what they are good and bad at? I really like how you present all this wonderful info but many of the specs I think sound fun are not optimal so I am still in the dark about them.
I would love to see another video like this one on the non optimal specs and maybe doing a comparison to how much you are sacrificing by going down a non optimal path. Right now with just this video you really make it seem like you are just out of your mind to do anything but be optimal.
I know Enhancment shaman and shadow priest aren't the best but I would still love to learn more about them as I never played classic WoW.
@James Andrew In your case it really doesn't matter, and you should play whatever attracts you the most - by your standards. Be it class fantasy, gameplay mechanics or something else entirely. Everything works ...to some degree. And you will have some glorious moments. However, whatever you choose, have in mind that there will be a lot of people that are not that casual and their gear (and skill) will be greater then yours... and you will get rekt. It's just the way it is. Don't let that discourage you tho.
You should talk about good combinations for friends grouping together. I was thinking of rolling Priest or Paladin and have a friend play a Warlock or Warrior.
Priest/Warrior combo is terrifyingly effective. Easiest path to Grand Martial/High Warlord imo.
@@schwann145 Agreed. There is a reason almost every grand martial was a warrior. The amount of kills you rack up is a crime... especially on a PvP server... so few people can actually deal with you out in the wild.
Was gonna switch my main from warlock to mage but when you said how overpopulated mage is.. I'll stick with my good ol Warlock haha.
the real king of 1v1 is soul link warlock... once u get geared with soul link warlock then ur beating anything if u know how to play...
soul link orc warlock when bwl or higher geared, Troll shadow priest and hunter are prolly the best pvp duel classes in vanilla.
Troll ? No way.. Devouring plague was the best priest racial for horde.. For alliance I would say dwarf's fear ward.
2:09 "We'll start with Vanilla WoW most iconic class : The Warrior."
Vurtne fans : *Triggered*
Unbreakable fans : *Triggered*
Drakedog fans : *Triggered*
Grim : Total Annihilation fans : *Triggered*
Laintime fans : *Rejoice*
Vurtne fan boi here, here's right though xD
@@hughjazz4936 The thing that triggered me the most is that OG used clips from Pat the backpeddler. Probably one of the worst warrior the World has ever known, carried by his r14 gear and healbots. Laintime was an infinitely better warrior that made clever use of engineering and items to win 1vX scenarios. But I noticed americans tend to shill for each other, probably why he used Pat clips 🙃
@@leglonglon Laintime is my fave warrior of Vanilla hands down, but calling Pat a "bad" player, when he held R14 on his server for 2.5 months and then having seasons 1-9 gladiator on his warrior makes you look kinda stupid.
Considering hes done more in the game then you ever have, but you'd never admit to yourself being trash at the game.
Actually do some research before you talk.
@@mis8866 I don't get it, why do you go full ad hominem on me if you also agree that Laintime was the best vanilla PvP warrior ? 🤔
Btw, holding the r14 title for 2 months isn't a feat of skill, it only proves that he had more time than others by being student or unemployed.
There isn't even a debate, Laintime literaly defined the warrior class. He was the first to showcase features such as kiting between autoattacks/instant abilities. His use of consumables/items was also incredibly advanced and clever for its time.
To conclude, Pat was an entertainer. I'll not deny the entertainment value of his critmovies but Laintime was the iconic warrior of Vanilla.
Prove me wrong Pat shills 🙃
I agree Laintime was definately more skilled. His clips were more normal play and pats were crit/higglight clips.
Thank you for this I had forgotten SO MUCH of this!
Every class is good but every class is hard to master at the same time.
I really think until release that I still haven’t decided and that I’m just going to be stuck either in the character creation menu or continuously rerolling classes
Good holy pally + good warrior = 2v10 easy mode
try get me with a warrior...if im hunter boy xD