Christianity and Theism Do Not Make Sense | Dan Barker
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- In this thought-provoking video, Dan Barker delves into the philosophical and logical challenges posed by Christianity and theism. Barker, a former pastor and renowned atheist activist, scrutinizes the foundational beliefs of Christianity and theism, presenting compelling arguments on why these religious frameworks may not hold up under rigorous examination. Through a detailed analysis, he explores the contradictions, moral implications, and empirical shortcomings associated with these belief systems, offering viewers a critical perspective on the arguments for and against the existence of deities.
Join Dan Barker as he navigates the complex terrain of religious belief and reason, addressing common claims made by theists and providing counterpoints grounded in secular philosophy. This video is an essential watch for anyone interested in the intersection of faith, logic, and reason, and it invites viewers to engage in a deeper conversation about the validity of religious doctrines in the modern world. Don’t miss this insightful critique that challenges conventional beliefs and encourages a reevaluation of the assumptions underpinning Christianity and theism.
#religion #christianity #atheism #science #documentary #debate #catholic
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I was steeped in religion as a child, embraced it as a teen, Thought my way out as an adult. I’ve been a student, a teacher, a deacon, and vice president of a bible college. Thank you, Dan for your articulate unmasking of the Great Delusion.
Your Great Delusion is still to come.
@@MariusVanWoerden You evidently believe things I no longer find credible. To each his own; life is not a one size fits all proposition. Be well and content, my friend. Stay curious.
@@stephenrichie4646I see you were threaten with Hell. They are consistent. It's good you know you hold the high ground of reality.
@@crapton9002
Reality is refreshing.
In your Bible college, did anyone instruct you in hermeneutics and NT Greek?
I attended Baptist Church as a child. It never made much sense, I never felt the "spirit" or felt god talking to me. Still took till I was over 18 to give it up. I went off to a Baptist college and became an atheist! Never went back to church. 50 years ago.
I questioned it all as a child too. Tells me that if even a child can see flaws in Religious beliefs there’s a problem there.
Same here rho' Catholic. My parents exited the church when I was 12.
@@tommccarthy3052 12 years of Catholic School here. My parents were ‘Christmas and Easter church attenders’ by my ninth grade (first of four years of my high school), and all of us stopped going by my 12th grade in 1977. My father became a staunch, outspoken atheist by the 1990's, several years after my mom passed. I remember never taking any of it very seriously; to me, going to church was only ever 'something we did'.
@@Specialeffecks My mom used to call Xmas/Easter only people "High Holy Days Catholics" - we went every week.
My parents got tired of the hypocrisy of the church & we switched from a conservative church - where the monsignor was a drunk (my dad got into it with him - apparent - about spending the collection plate money on booze) to younger church. Younger priests & congregation - "folk mass" a get together at the church hall, etc. Before finally easing out entirely.
My dad had been listening to Alan Watts' s lectures & I that initial exposure to Zen Buddhism opened some doors. Born of my parents became atheist over time.
Like you all of it never felt right to me. My fave story was going to 1st confession & having no idea what to say I made up a "sin". That the priest did not realize I lied threw me & when I came home I told my mom.that was BS & I was never doing that again - lol!
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Perhaps you were unable to be filled with the Holy Spirit because they only provided grape juice. The hard liquor was kept on the pastor's desk.
You are a star for posting this.
Everything is in your head, a construct. Everything. How else could it be?:
the gorgeous unforgettable meal, the exquisite glass of wine, the best concert you ever went to, the concept of a loving god, hell, evil, morals. It's all mental constructs.
Just care about everybody and everything. And be kind.
Just be kind. No more problems.
I'm always blown away that so many people can't see that the world's current religions are just the latest myths.
Cognitive dissonance is a small price to have a supernatural daddy figure you know...
It's all made up. And it's still continuing to be made up. Thousands of years have passed since each religion borrowed from the previous ones and the neighboring ones. Lots of interpretation, reinterpretation, and re-reinterpretations. And it will always keep being made up again and again.
@@PurpleHeart99
Totally agree. The idea of joining all of their deceased loved ones in an afterlife is too desirable. They can’t accept that that may all be nothing but a dream and once we die we turn back into the same nothing we were before we were born.
@@PurpleHeart99Saw a YT short where this woman was breathlessly recounting stories of people at the end "seeing a light" or "meeting jesus".
And yet when mother was at the end of hospice (after 6 months) she "saw" & "spoke" to my dad & her dad. Nothing else.
So - tying into your point - there was some sort of "confirmation bias" - so to speak - there at the end. The "believers saw" what they were "conditioned to" or expected to see. My mother, not being either "saw" only loved ones. Hmm...
Indoctrination of children is a powerful tool.
As a child growing up in a Christian country and taking religious education lessons, it simply has never made any logical sense to me . Having studied various religions upto adulthood none of them have any sensible rational arguments for there beliefs
i am no worse and no better since i stopped going to Sunday services. Now i get to sleep in and give my tithes to needy people, amen
Fair play john ,you ironically are more christlike now than when you gave your tithes to church ,have a good life and keep up the search for real truth ,Christianity is a multi sided scam and as a former Christian myself I feel closer to reality after I left church
suffering is the reason as to why I am an Atheist. Suffering 100% proves that a good "God" who knows the nature of suffering and is capable of stopping suffering does not exist.
Yes.
I became an atheist in my 60s ( im 71) it was reading the bible that opened my eyes. My family prays for me .they think i will go to hell..
That “you did?” at the beginning is pretty funny🤣
Love from Canada, Dan. Keep spreading the good word.
I’m an atheist mostly because of lack of answers. Lack of evidence is admittedly, a crucial factor. however, I don’t think I’ll convert simply after witnessing proper demonstrable evidence for a god. I’ll believe for sure. But with regard to conversion, I’ll need answered questions.
I am a former atheist and I started to read the gospel and when I followed the teachings of Jesus then I got born again. The Bible is definitely true if you simply repent of your sin and put your faith in Jesus you will have spiritual evidence.
@@Jesuslordoflords-y4m 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Honestly, i think that is a valid point of view. If you don't mind saying what you would consider as valid evidence for God existing?
@@Jesuslordoflords-y4m
*"Neither the evangelists nor their first readers engaged in historical analysis. Their aim was to confirm Christian faith (Lk. 1.4; Jn. 20.31). Scholars generally agree that the Gospels were written forty to sixty years after the death of Jesus. They thus do not present eyewitness or contemporary accounts of Jesus’ life and teachings.*
Unfortunately, much of the general public is not familiar with scholarly resources like the one quoted above; instead, Christian apologists often put out a lot of material, such as The Case For Christ, targeted toward lay audiences, who are not familiar with scholarly methods, in order to argue that the Gospels are the eyewitness testimonies of either Jesus’ disciples or their attendants. *The mainstream scholarly view is that the Gospels are anonymous works, written in a different language than that of Jesus, in distant lands, after a substantial gap of time, by unknown persons, compiling, redacting, and inventing various traditions, in order to provide a narrative of Christianity’s central figure-Jesus Christ-to confirm the faith of their communities."*
*As scholarly sources like the Oxford Annotated Bible note, the Gospels are not historical works (even if they contain some historical kernels).*
*"Majority of Scholars agree: The Gospels were not written by Eyewitnesses - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"*
Also, how cognitive dissonance possibly explains early Christianity.
*“The Rationalization Hypothesis: Is a Vision of Jesus Necessary for the Rise of the Resurrection Belief?”* - by Kris Komarnitsky | Κέλσος - Wordpress
Also, look up:
*"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history? -- by Dr Steven DiMattei"*
*"When Were the Gospels Written and How Can We Know? - The Doston Jones Blog"*
*"How Did The Gospel Writers Know? - The Doston Jones Blog"*
*"Yes, the Four Gospels Were Originally Anonymous: Part 1 - The Doston Jones Blog"*
*"Are Stories in the Bible Influenced by Popular Greco-Roman Literature? - The Doston Jones Blog"*
*"Gospels Not Written By Matthew, Mark, Luke or John - The Church Of Truth"*
*"February 2015 - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"* - Isaiah 53
*"Jesus and the Messianic Prophecies - Did the Old Testament Point to Jesus? - The Bart Ehrman Blog"*
*"Did Jesus Fulfill Prophecy? | Westar Institute"*
*"Jesus Was Not the Only “Prophet” to Predict the Destruction of the Temple - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"*
What would you consider valid evidence for unicorns existing?
Great insight, my quote of the month, "Most of the evidence against Christianity is WITHIN Christianity, it's Christian scholars..."
I like a bit of debunking religion on Sunday morning. There's a poetic justice about it. Gives me a warm feeling inside. It must be God.
I could no longer tell myself to ignore reality in order to feel good. "FAITH" with all it's fictional nuances just did not do it for me anymore. I could say that I have reached my state of lack of belief almost exactly by the same process as Dan Barker. Yet the first (idiotic) retort I get is the No True Scotsman, or "nehhh ehh, you were never a true christian."
The funny-odd thing about a Christian or a group of Christians claiming that they're more Christian (which is to claim they're more righteous or holy) than the other Christian/Christians that believe differently than them. Well, this is why there are thousands upon millions of Christian churches of various denominations.
If you took a survey of each church's attendants that supposedly claim to be of the same denomination. And questioned them one by one. You would discover that none of them really believe everything their denomination teaches. They're all individually that much more different from each other than they're aware of. This is why more denomination exist, and this is how more denominations keep being created.
In the end, their is no REAL or TRUE Christian. And whatever it was to be a Christian thousands of years ago when the first few Christian churches were set up. There was already different interpretations and doctrines that continued the separation of each church.
So you see. It's always been made up from the beginning. Thousands of years later, and people are still making it up to control others and to create a false reality because the real truth is too frightening for them to face head on. It's just us. And there is no one that's going to save us from ourselves except ourselves.
Also, congratulations on doing the hard work.
I am an Atheist, and last week I was debating a colleague of mine who is Christian, on the problem of suffering, and who was doing all mental gymnastics to justify suffering while believing in a "God" who could have prevented it from existing in the first place. I avoid debating the term evil because people get too philosophical and start telling me that evil is just my opinion. They have tried that with suffering but I shut them down by asking them to give me permission to try and make them suffer just to see if it is indeed just my opinion, and they immediately stop telling me that suffering is just my opinion.
@@newmankidman5763 Excellent, thank you for the help and information.
I put this nonsense to rest long ago and don't discuss it anymore.
When things doesn't make sense you still got blind faith. In religion what is admired and encouraged the most is blind faith because without it there is nothing holding it together.
Helen Keller had blind faith
There is belief in gods but no actual gods have ever made a public appearance. Why not?
They have man. Look at the trees!
@@Lordidude Is that where he's hiding? Sneaky bugger!
I have always found that as a very weird argument
@@jdan3277 It's a valid argument if one values evidence.
@epicofgilgamesh9964 My issue with this argument is that one assumes that if a god did appear right in front of you, you would believe it automatically. Also, as far as evidence, if a god appeared, what happens 5 years from now when he is not in front of you anymore? And someone says, "I don't believe in the evidence you had. god needs to show himself to me right now." At that point, the only valid thing for god to do would be staying right in front of all of us in a way you could never deny it. It also makes assumptions on gods nature, too.
That is why I really don't like the argument. A better argument can be if you think the evidence is valid or not. But that would have to be taken care of on a case by case basis. If the information is valid or not.
I always like Dan Barker's simple explanations.
I was born and raised in a very strict Muslim society in the middle east. It felt liberating when I left that dogma 3 years ago.
Terrific video! I love Dan's book "Godless".😀
I was raised staunchly atheist and became increasingly skeptical of it later in life. I think we all grow up trusting what we're taught and question it later.
The tricky thing with atheism is that it frames itself as a non-belief. It's tough to question a belief you don't even recognize as such.
It doesn't. Atheism is a lack of belief in theists' claims.
Which is an easy position to take because the claims made be theists are fucking stupid.
Not just Christianity, but all religions.
I don't trust anyone who claims to have answers that it is a "sin" to question.
If you can't prove it, maybe you shouldn't be saying it.
I get why people are religious, what I don't understand is faith.
My evidence against is the lack of evidence for.
The book of Matthew also shows repeats written about the same thing twice on in it
Some people may have other reasons for accepting claims as true that do not require verification.
If I think something is important and would live my life by, I will want to know if it's true and verify it.
If you care if it's true, TEST IT, if not (or it is not testable), it's likely not true - or you don't care if it's true.
Great arguments, though would've been a better video to avoid repeating arguments (ie 8:28 is the second time the lack of clear definition is criticized)
The only difference between religion and other fairy tales is that fairy tales have a "happy ever after". Religion has hell.
You have never heard about Heaven?
@AnthoniePerez.94No, I am an atheist/agnostic and in fact we are not directly descended from monkeys, please educate yourself. Also, being an atheist does not mean being smarter, Just a different way of looking at things. We atheists didn't choose not to believe, we were born that way. And if you see atheists that way, don't be surprised that some Atheists see you badly. Good evening to you.
@@MaklaryZoltan-lu9ji I have. It is the proverbial carrot to make the mule walk. Considering that any little thing you might have not even noticed will send you to hell, that heaven of yours is an empty promise.
@@perfesser944 Who told you that I am a believer? I've simply tried to make you aware that your statement about fairy tales and religions is not correct. Religions have the happy ever after ending as well, via heaven. What are you even talking about?
@@MaklaryZoltan-lu9jiI've heard the word uttered but never a coherent explanation of what it is.
The writer of Mark and John don't write repeats that I know of but Matthew and Luke do
Even with evidence I would not follow him.. see the suffering he has caused.. of course if he could not have prevented it I would perhaps listen
It was an accurate and factual video, but it could be shortened because it was somewhat repetitive.
I am figuring out if I heard it right.
Did our friend Berty Russell suggest that the arguments for a god could be better?
grammar-grammar-grandma. Like a stuck 78 RPM gramophone record.
I was born & raised in an atheist family & do not know any religious people or go to church, or believe the Bible is the word of God.
However spiritual people Kept taking me to their realm & teaching me all about a special tree that They all drink from. And I was shown an ocean there that is full of life & made to swim in the ocean & interact with the life forms there.
Then one of the beings showed me how He uses both of His hands to scoop the auric light from His mid section & then He casts the ball of light into the ocean there & it instantly expands into a universe in the ocean. Then the being took me to walk on the new earth in that universe & showed me how life from His own ocean passes through into the earth's ocean & comes ashore. He often makes me swim through His ocean to our own earth & walk ashore. He did that again last week.
I later discovered that Genesis explains that in the beginning God was with an ocean & then created light & then sent light into His ocean & created our universe, & brought birds & all life forth from the waters, & when creation was complete the universe remained under God's ocean forever. So Genesis is saying the same thing that the spiritual being demonstrates to me all the time & I have met many people who are taken by God & shown the same thing.
I'm not a Christian or a follower of religions but for some reason the spiritual beings never stop visiting me & They show me the future every day & it all comes true within hours. So I know I am not imagining things.
Anyway that's my take on this subject.
Have a great day or night wherever you are
Hi, I am an aspiritualist and where is your proof that those being visiting you, moreover, those exist?
Some people will just believe anything. I don’t know if there’s a cure for that.
I'm wondering, does this involve, um, mushrooms in any way?
People read a huge range of woo-woo into Genesis.
@@TheRealLaughingGravy This person is taking some absurdly heroic doses of mushrooms if they're being visited by "spiritual beings." Maybe they're smoking DMT, or maybe these are descriptions of dreams? Either way it's quite strange.
The writer of John does write something different than what Mark Luke and Matthew writed about the 3 women and the spices prepared
John was written 100 years after the others.
Someone liked the bad grammar quote a little too much.
The writer of John doesn't write the reason as to why Mary Magdalene went to the tomb three or two and a half day's on later
Religion has more plot holes than a Zack Snyder film
I'm not watching this video because of the piano background music. It's an attempt to sway people. Let the content speak for itself.
Don't worry, people who matters watch it...
@@dorkception2012 Go finish high school.
@@alohaohana901 No, you became one of those by acting as a decent human being, if you think you learn that in high school you are a few years late. ;)
@@dorkception2012 Learn how to construct a sentence.
@@alohaohana901 Sorry, English is my third language, we can continue this "conversation" in German, or in Hungarian, which one of those do you prefer?
Surely, theism makes no sense. But what about Deism, the idea that God has created the Universe but then put it on autopilot? Many smart guys like Thom Jefferson sheared this idea.
Honestly, I think that Deist god is much smarter than Theist god, he has made everything right from the start and has no need to fix and repair his own lapses and glitches.
I'd have nothing against such a god.
True
Think about this, whether a person believes in a specific God or not, the world goes on the way the world does. Things die, people murder and rape, animals fight the constant struggle of surviving and suffer unnecessary levels of pain, etc.
People die, some more unjustly and sooner than others, but nobody comes back. Death is certain. Our universe is chaotic, and the majority of the cosmos is uninhabitable to life.
With all that in mind, imagine one day we discover - God does in fact, exist. Cool. Now what?
What exactly did that knowledge change about the universe? Was this God on vacation and now they’ll be active? Does this God’s existence explain anything? Let’s say this God is like “I created everything” cool. It’s a shit design. We observe that.
For some people who are religiously bias, think of it this way.
If we discovered Big Foot exists, what would change in your life outside the knowledge that a creature called big foot exists? Nothing.
The very fact that whether or not God’s existence is identical to that of Big Foot shows just how little of an impact that would actually have on the world.
When we create scientific theories they are models that explain observable phenomena.
Here is a world in which God could exist and his existence would explain things.
For example, let’s say all humans at the age of 7 are visited by an unknown person. We all have a shared collective dream.
When humans accept Christianity as true, they are all immediately having a vision - very similar to the shared visions people get with DMT - of speaking to Jesus and being in Heaven.
Upon giving their life’s to Jesus, consistently they have an Ozempic style effect of having 0 desire to sin. It’s just gone.
Christians, amongst all other groups seem to work as one cohesive unit, no contractions in beliefs, no question as to what they believe, very positive results that others can experience.
Science would be interested in this ‘observable phenomena’ and maybe “God” would act a theory or a model to explain these things.
Now, Gods existence is better established through a scientific model which explains shared phenomena that is unquestionable and repeatable in its results.
You do not have this with Christianity let alone any religion. This is the greatest evidence one needs to see that ALL religions are man’s best attempts throughout the ages to explain things they didn’t understand.
It’s faith not logic! If faith was logic it wouldn’t be faith!
Relying on faith means *you don't care about truth.* Why? Because you can have faith in literally every falsehood. That proves faith isn't a reliable path to truth, which means when someone relies on it they're telling us they don't care if their belief is truth.
At the last supper event Jesus repeats the things that he said to the disciples before the last supper about being the greatest getting 12 thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel and about the gentile ruler's lording thing's on over themselves
The book of Luke the writer took and wrote repeats of the same things that took and happened on in it
I'm all for calling god a "flister doodle".
One outstanding sage or saint is worth a thousand smart-Aleck intellectual. Check out Bishop Bienvenue in Hugo's Les Miserables. Hugo believed in God, NOT CHURCHES 😊.
Anyone who believes in things there is no evidence for is a fool.
The worst thing that I can see from all sides is that there is always someone out there trying to convince you that their way is THE WAY. No ones 'WAY' is the way. You have to figure this out for yourself. Don't listen to this guy, and by the same token don't listen to a religious person. LISTEN TO YOUR OWN SENSES. Trust yourself. You will know the path you need to move forward with your life. No one else will.
The Bible is evidence of religion, not God.
good for you and may you spread the word! There is no evidence for a god.
😎
There are many former atheists. God is real. But so is the devil and he got you. Sad.
How can the virgin in Isaiah 7:14 mean literal virgin when in the next chapter, Isaiah has sex with the woman to conceive the child that he spoke of in Isaiah 7:14. Doesn't this prove that the virgin in Isaiah 7:14 just means young woman?
Isaiah 8:1-4 The Lord said to me, “Take a large scroll and write on it with an ordinary pen: Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz.”[a] 2 So I called in Uriah the priest and Zechariah son of Jeberekiah as reliable witnesses for me. 3 Then I made love to the prophetess, and she conceived and gave birth to a son. And the Lord said to me, “Name him Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz. 4 For before the boy knows how to say ‘My father’ or ‘My mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria will be carried off by the king of Assyria.”
How can this be interpreted as a prediction of the literal virgin birth of Jesus?
Isaiah is such a rambling mess that we cannot tell whether the young woman in 7:14 is the same as the prophet's mate in 8:3. Scholars who pretend otherwise are faking expertise they do not command.
@@brygenon How can it be a second son when in chapter 8 the same prophecy is re-affirmed that was applied to the child in Chapter 7?
Isaiah 8:4 For before the boy knows how to say ‘My father’ or ‘My mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria will be carried off by the king of Assyria.”
Isaiah 7:16- for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.
Doesn't this show that its the same child being spoken of in both chapters?
@@bushidodanThe sign had the name of a boy so announcing a boy of a different name suggests a different boy. The point to King Ahaz was how soon his local enemies would fall not that a particular child would have any special role.
I don't read Hebrew but scholars say 7:14 indicates the young woman is already pregnant, yet in storytelling order Isaiah impregnates his wife after that. The book of Isaiah is such a mess that this may be out of order but there's no indication of it here.
@@brygenon Its the same boy because the prophecy for both boys is exactly the same.
He just gave the boy a different name instead of Emmanuel.
Why would he have a son to fulfill the exact same prophecy as the first child??
@@bushidodan A boy is to be named Immanuel and grow old enough to see right and wrong. A boy is to be named Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz and grow old enough to say "My father' and 'My mother'. Those have to be the same, uh, why? The boy(s) is/are *not* the prophesy to the King. The fall of Damascus and Samaria is the prophesy. The boys are for timing and any child born at the time would work.
If a boy were prophesized to go to war and defeat Aram, and boy were prophesized to take Damascus which is head of Aram, then those are probably the same specific boy because they do pretty much the same specific thing. That is not what is happening in Isaiah 7 and 8.
Was the prophesy fulfilled? The book of Isaiah is such a mess, we cannot really tell. The prophesy seems conditional on Ahaz King of Judah trusting the Lord and not making a military alliance, but Ahaz did not obey. Local enemies Damascus and Samaria got smeared by Assyria, but so did Judah.
👍👍👍
"The message of the Gospel is foolishness ............. to those who are perishing
but for us who are being saved it is the power of God " First Corinthians 1:18
Praying is the most useless human activity.
The spelling in the subtitles is atrocious and embarrassing.
LOL anything to say about the content at all, or that is all good?
When you can't play, attack the player...
@@MaklaryZoltan-lu9ji The content was ok, the proof-reading embarrassingly lazy though.
@@dorkception2012 Nope. Don't be so lazy you don't even check the spelling of the subtitles you yourself provided (i.e. not youtube's auto captions). This material is nothing new or profound at this point to anyone who is interested in the topic. The actual content was fine, Mr. Dork.
@@nsbd90now Dude, you are talking about spelling in a effing TH-cam video... are you aware that the content you are watching is in the price of your monthly internet bill?
Kind of diminishes the point when you make it 3 times in a single video...
-1 for unnecessary, forced, and wrong subtitles.
God is real and the only thing that makes sense. Jesus is Lord
Only to those who don't/ couldn't know better...
Blahblah, you will perish forever after you die, learn to accept reality!
Which one, god or Jesus? Aren't there three of them? You left out 'the spirit'. Which one(s) makes sense?
Evidence for God ? It's there in every living being . It's called DNA. A computer code and language, written centuries ago, every person with their own signature. Any person declaring that their DNA code comes about through genetic mutation and natural selection should get some education.
Education on what? What am I missing?
Nope, DNA is proof that we live in the Matrix! Get your facts right!
@@petraravn5421 I think he meant 'some education on evolution and genetics'. (I'm sure he meant useful, tested, demonstrated, expert peer-reviewed knowledge, like the evolutionary science knowledge that modern medicine depends on to manufacture monoclonal antibodies, or drugs ending in "MAB", for example - to raise the life-expectancy of individuals with disease, rather than some useless and superstitious woo from a primitive book).
Nothing destroyed my faith, more than the Catholic Church itself. Furthermore, not one example of any church on earth that I have come in contact with as well. Nothing in my mind about churches displays their belief in God. Here is how I see their failure. Not a single form of (preaching by example). Never, not once did I see this. Example is not words, nor one true action. On top of that the church, as just about anyone can see if they really look closely, is simply greed for gold or its equivalent. I do believe in a higher power, be it God or be it something else. There must be some type of intelligence for all of this! Think about the possibilities, > I have been pondering the concept of God, for many years. I started Life as a Catholic. Became interested in many other religions, Judaism, Hinduism, Shintoism, and others, since I couldn’t find God there. I came back to Catholicism at my birth church but not for long. The claim God put forward through his/it’s agents had been he made us in His image and in His likeness. Finally, I wonder that God might have a mean streak because he created the people leading all our countries. They are certainly Evil and Criminal with much etcetera’s to follow? Image and likeness, you know what I mean? However, after a lifetime of curiosity both in God and strange things, happening around us. I have decided. That there is as much proof, of God as there is of aliens. Something to remember though. Absence of evidence is never evidence of absence. My query is it possible that beings 750,000years (more advanced) than we are, could have traveled here and had done what we believe as God-like things in our history. In the mid 1920’s an airplane landed in the mid-western United States the natives who had never seen an aircraft began to worship the plane. Please do not quote scripture to me, that would be like saying Puma Punku is where aliens came to earth. Here we can try to add a little bit of math to the situation. It appears that most people are in agreement that the universe is about 13.787 billion years old. The Earth Is 4 billion years old. Now, we make some utterly ridiculous assumptions that the Earth has intelligent life. I personally am not going there since the definition of planetary intelligent life requires all people on a planet to be at the top of the ladder. So, let us subtract four billion from 13.787billion. This equals nine decimal seven-eight-seven billion years. Nine-ish billion years / 750,000 years equals 13,049.3. So, for nine billion years after the big bang there (could have) been 13,049.3 groups of highly intelligent and powerful beings. These beings could be creating all sorts of things. Over time, things could very simply interest them. These are my thoughts. There is always the possibility that I am mistaken. But there is still the chance that you could be since there is (zero absolute proof) for either side!
Talk about droning on ..
Oh, but God is easily proved. If you genuinely invite Jesus into your heart, the blinding veil will be lifted, and you will see the world as it really is, why we need keys to lock our property, why we need a police force. The only obstacle to experiencing the one true God is pride, which makes a fool out of every pseudo-intellectual.
Next time you communicate with a puffed up atheist--and what can be more puffed up than someone who thinks he know all there is to know in the universe--ask him frm where did matter come? He cannot say it was always there, for then he would be saying there was no start, and that nothing led to the supposed big band. Be prepared for a load of BS, disguised as science.
I did that as a kid.... and when i was being abused by my mother in unspeakable ways, I called for help... you know how much I got? Yup.. zero... zilch .. nil.. nothing... the door was wide open and nobody was knocking.
@@anaussieinvietnam Sorry to learn that you were abused. I too was mercilessly beaten and rejected by an antisocial father. I left Catholicism and became an atheist. Fortunately, a more painful event in early adulthood deflated my pride; and I found that Catholicism is not Christianity. After being born from above, it became clear that all the pain I endured was necessary for me to approach God without the obstructive humanism. Miraculously, this college drop-out became a doctor, concert guitarist, composer, professor of NT Greek and Bible translator. Who knows what wonderful blessings are in store for you, once you begin to thank your Creator for everything, even the suffering that surely has equipped you with enormous potential.
@@TheBinaryWolf Congratulations on your successes but I see no relationship between your focus, success and abilities, and the influence of a spiritual being... Your abuse, and indeed mine, should have been the time the supreme being was there to save us, but there was nothing..
I respect your right to believe in such a being but I remain steadfast in my one question.
"Where was God when I was being abused as a child?"
@@anaussieinvietnam I truly appreciate your disappointment...perfectly understandable as I felt the same. Jesus never promised to give us a pain free life, for that would be heaven. Yes He can spare us, or just help us get through suffering. Unlike God, Who wants us to believe, Satan does not want us to believe he exists; thus, when hit by adversity, God gets the blame.
But Jesus is the ONLY name to call. He felt your suffering as much as you did. Why He permits children to suffer, I don't fancy myself to know, I'm not omniscient. But I did pray for the answer to your most reasonable question: here is what came to mind.
Before you were even born, God knew the best path for your life that would lead to heaven at the end.
Had you enjoyed a perfect childhood and smooth sailing all your days but end up in the eternal fire, the hard road is surely better.
You are gifted with intellectual curiosity, so I am confident you will grasp the bigger picture in time, and reconcile with your Creator. In heaven, you will see how much you were loved, and how necessary it was for you to endure parental failure. Jesus does love you. Is it not more painful to see a loved one suffer than to suffer yourself? I'd rather contend with cancer than to watch my daughter have it.
When I called on Jesus, I was not entirely humble. I said, "Lord, I might just be talking to the cieling; for I don't have any faith; so you're going to have to help me." Without any real expectation, I invited Him into my heart to be my Lord. No bells rang; but not long after, my path crossed with someone who gave what I now consider the greatest gift one can give to another: an personal introduction to Christ. When my eyes were opened, I realized I was blind, just like in Newton's song, Amazing Grace. You would not have convinced me I was blind when angry at the idea God might exist. Nobody can prove God to you: only you can prove Him by genuine invitation. For you, the best is yet to come. Why wait?
share the hate
Please watch and share with others my five brief videos in which I present examples of scientific facts contained in the Bible; facts that the writers thousands of years ago could not have been aware of without divine knowledge given to them by God. And today's scientists agree with those facts. Thank you!
We have no evidence of god.
That is a problem if you wish to be a conservative christian.
News flash:
That's not the only kind of christianity.
Just because you do not believe in conservative christianity does not mean you have to throw out all christianity and all religion.
If your religion isn't making sense , then you should change your religion.
But why make a pronouncement against all religion because of the one religion you don't like?
My first relationship with a woman didn't work out. But I didn't decide all women are bad. That would be a stupid conclusion.
Instead I kept searching until I found the wonderful woman I married..
The question is not if all women is bad, but if all women is existing at all? Your analogy is nonsense.
Most of theistic religions are immoral and spark hatred, that's a fact. If the gods existing of those religions is the question. At the moment not one deity has been proven, so it's a blatant lie to say that there are gods, and to say that there are no gods. However, making people live their lives according if any of those gods are exist is unreasonable and harmful. Fact.
@jhonvoyage2564 I'm sorry you willfully don't understand. I'm sorry you have closed your eyes and mind.
You have decided you know what all religions believe, and that's why you purposely claim the analogy doesn't work (but it does). You are very unaware of the vast differences of religions. There are agnostic and atheistic Christians and Buddhists and Jews (and probably many other groups). There's the Universalist Unitarians, Centre Place, United Church of Canada, and my group the ELCA. (The ELCA isn't quite as broad theologically as the others i listed. But thats the great thing about having sooo many religions.)
You don't like ONE type of religion, so you decided ALL religion is the same.
Much like my analogy. If one woman didn't work out, don't decide ALL women are bad. Why deny yourself a great relationship with a wonderful woman because ONE relationship didn't work out?
Why deny yourself a wonderful religious community because ONE religion didn't work for you?
You equated religion to God. And then you mistakenly concluded since God cant be proven to exist, then religion doesn't exist. I got news...religion does exist, regardless if God or gods exists or not.
Remember, you don't have to do what others do. But that doesn't mean everyone should not do something cause you don't like it.
People practice religion to help them navigate life, to help them become better and helpful to their community, to look at the mess of life and try to make sense of it. To find a community where they can honestly wrestle with the hard questions. A place where we can build and hope for a better tomorrow, even when things look hopeless.
Why are you upset at people trying to help each other? Do you wish we would stop providing financial help to the poor? Does our joyful singing on Sunday's wake you up? If you don't wanna be part of a religious community, ok. But why this hatred for all religions, even the ones you don't know anything about?
We had a special service of lament this past weekend. (We are in Barrow county).
Did we get an answer from God as to why the shooting happened?
No. We literally said in the service that we don't have answers. But we grieved together and drew strength from each other to face the future.
@@langreeves6419 We do know that not all women are bad, because we met not bad women. Have you ever meat one religion that had evidence about it's claims, deities?
@jhonvoyage2564 yes!
@@langreeves6419 Really? then you are the first in history, you surely will get a Nobel Prize for that extraordinary evidence!
What is that? Why did you kept it in secret until some nobody asked for it on a TH-cam comment section?
You are right ! Christianity does not make sense. That's because God made it that way. It is a matter of faith - not logic.
LIstening to this, I would suggest that Dan never really knew or understood the Christian God. I am the same age as Dan, and embraced Christianity about the same time that Dan turned his back on it. Coming from a previously atheist position I know all the arguments. I am not prepared to waste time debating them here. I can only say that belief in God does not depend on "evidence" or "goosebumps", just an inner conviction that the sacrifice of Jesus has broken down the barrier that separates us from God. I came to that conclusion after years of deep thought and spiritual searching, and it remains as true to me now as it did 40 years ago
The Christian God? Are there others? How does one convince themselves that any gods exist?
THE CHRISTIAN GOD!
The Christian god compared to the Muslim, Hindu, etc., gods……. And there are many Christian’s gods since there are over 40,000 Christian cultists denominations that cannot agree on anything god or otherwise…… Nothing good came from Christianity….. only hate and lies!
You will not waste time debating them here? But you feel totally okay posting your special hotline to God here. Just wow.
And reading your comment, Chris, tells everyone that you have never understood basic logic/reasoning...
My complete spiritual discipline is the concept that God is love.I believe that the Gospel of John as well as James, are all you need to live a proper Cristian life .The moment LUKE and Paul's gospel comes into the picture, the message of Jesus gets messed up and people gets frustrated with religion. I understand why it is easier to decide to become an atheist. God is not an idea or person. Religion is a very satisfying way of life.
So you have no innate morality to help you how to live a decent life? You need a book to make you not running around amok?
Also, religion is a satisfying way to live you say? How about you tell it to the families of the people who lost their lives under the Twin Towers? Or the families of the Oct. 7th massacre?
@@dorkception2012 You should not blame God for the evil that men do. The Bible states that, for now, God is allowing the weeds to grow along with the wheat. That will not always be the case.
At the End of the Age, Jesus Christ will judge all of humanity. The multitudes whom Jesus condemns will be sent to what the Bible calls the "Second Death". They will be destroyed and then forgotten.
Meanwhile, the Saved will enter into a glorious eternal life. I pray that you will be among the Saved. Please ask Jesus Christ to come into your life as your Lord and Savior.
Take care.
@@thetruthaboutscienceandgod6921 Men do bad things in the name of other gods on the land of your god. And your god let that happen? Your god is impotent, or non-existent. Your argument is mute.
@@thetruthaboutscienceandgod6921 Men do bad things in the name of other gods on the land of your god. And your god let that happen? Your god is either not omnipotent, or non-existent. Your argument is mute.
Did nothing create nothing? Some people like Richard Dawkins think so. This doesn't make sense
Literally only christians make this claim
I refute the title. Christian doctrine is irrational, but belief in God is logical. Thus, many philosophers and scientists are believers. Many great Artists too. And then there is the certainty of religious experience. Read William James, The Varieties of Religious Experience and Aldous Huxley, The Perennial Philosophy.
There is nothing logical about accepting things without evidence. I accept that people have what may be called "transcendent" experiences that many identify as spiritual. This does not prove your god exists or that a god of any kind is real. It proves we are humans with emotions. It does not mean god beliefs are logical because that places you in the postion of accepting all god beliefs, which is surely not rational. Nothing more.
Doesn’t matter which people believe in god. If there’s no evidence for a god it’s not logical to believe in one.
"Christian doctrine is irrational, but belief in God is logical."
Christian doctrine is not only irrational, it's silly. Belief in "god" is illogical because there's no evidence for "his' existence. And believing something for which there is no evidence is the very definition of irrational.
@@philo5227 So, smart-arse, how come a lot of the greatest thinkers, including many great professional philosophers, have been and still today, are Theists. Have you even read their arguments? Andxwhat of they who have a life- changing religious experience. FACTS, NOT THEORY. Hope you step into the Light someday.
@@robertfranklin8704 "So, smart-arse,"
Wow, that shot REALLY hurt. I may not recover from that one. You're British, right, or some semi-reasonable facsimile?
"how come a lot of the greatest thinkers, including many great professional philosophers, have been and still today, are Theists."
Which proves that allegedly "intelligent" people can mentally "compartmentalize" and "believe" silly, irrational stuff. Yeah, go ahead and bring up John Lennox...PLEASE!
" Have you even read their arguments?"
"Art beware, it's all been done...there's nothing new under the sun". That's the first verse from a song by Ambrosia called Art Beware. It perfectly encapsulates "Christian Apologetics" "arguments". IOW, when you've hearf one, you've heard them all.
"Andxwhat(sic) of they who have a life- changing religious experience."
That, and $6.95 will get you a Venti Mocha at Starbuck's.
"FACTS, NOT THEORY."
WTFO?
"Hope you step into the Light someday."
Try drinking 12 Grande Americanos all at once...and, hopefully, you will step into the "Light" of Trafnam.
I've already stated why belief in "god" is irrational. And it's late, I'm tired and I don't feel the need/want to explain it to you again. I assume you've read the bible, and yet you think that Christianity is NOT silly?
I converted to atheism 5 years ago. Yes, I had a lobotomy and atheism seemed very sensible to me.
Converted to atheism?
@@JamesRichardWiley Don't worry. It's just an indoctrinated christian, preaching in the comment section. Ignore him.
Atheism isn't a religion that you can convert to. It's just an absence of belief in any god or gods. I believe the part about the lobotomy though.
Yes, accepting things for which there is no evidence is very intelligent. Well done.
@@epicofgilgamesh9964
There's no evidence against God either, so...
The key difference: for theists, reason is primary and matter is secondary, while for atheists the order is reversed, so that reason (“ratio” - especially logic) becomes a secondary accidental product of brain evolution and thus ultimately arose by a random process from dumb matter (Paradoxically, they still trust in it and even see themselves as “rationalists”… 😆).
The true rationalists are therefore theists, because for them reason (the "Logos" that "was in the beginning; cf. John 1-1) is primary and matter is secondary.
Actually, logic and mathematics are prior to matter. This is seen in the simple fact that mathematics and, more generally, the immaterial laws of logic can only be thought of consistently as being valid before, in, after - and hence independently of every material world.
For example, as Leibniz wrote in a note of 1677: "It is true, and even necessary, that the circle is the largest isoperimetric figure, even if no circle ever existed in reality. And even if neither I nor you nor any other human being ever existed."
Likewise, the Euclidean prime number theorem or the fundamental theorem of algebra, for example, cannot be thought of consistently in any other way than being valid in every conceivable material world.
Since there are spaceless and timeless, i.e. immaterial and eternal truths, such as the laws of logic and mathematics, there must be something that constitutes their eternal being. According to Leibniz, this 'something' is the Logos God.
Obviously, this is not the rediculous inner-worldly "God" that some new atheists caricature (and rightly reject), but a God compatible with the "Logos" who, according to the Evangelist John, "was in the beginning" - Eν αρχη ην o λoγoς [John 1-1].
Every rational argument, whether theistic or atheistic, requires logic and that is exactly how both testify to the Logos. The first consistently, the second obviously 🤗
Is there a God? I strongly believe there is a something. You can call it whatever you like. One thing I can say quite comfortably, is I don't believe a word that comes out of any human written bible or the equivalent thereof. It's the same old routine divide and conquer. My Irish grandmother babysat for an Irish family in Canada. The absolutely loved her she did a wonderful job for them the children were happy and well-behaved. They were Protestant and when they found out my grandmother was Catholic they dumped her. Divide and conquer that's the tool that governments and churches use primarily to have people from one side critical of the people on the other side.