The Velocitor is the Best for bigger game like woodchucks, raccoons, and even coyotes at close range...I have shot the Remington Golden bullet quit a bit and it is a great performer for the price... I also use solids for Rabbits and Squirrels ...Sir you did a wonderful job on your video...Thank you very much
Thanks for the compliments. Those Velocitors are quite the round. I can really tell a difference when shooting them, especially in a pistol. instead of a pow from a regular cartridge, it's more like a POWW! when these go off.
The CCI Stinger has been my go-to hunting round for 40 years. I’ve dispatched squirrels, rabbits, cats, and dogs with those rounds. I’ve never hunted coyote. I always thought they were too large for the .22 LR and assumed I’d need a .223 or larger. Perhaps not, I supposed. It really comes down to shot placement I guess. I always try for head shots when possible. For plinking I’ve mostly used the Remington Thunderbolt. After watching this video, I’m going to try the Remington Golden bullets.
I have and enjoy using the Winchester Dynapoint for practice and the Velocitor for small game and we keep our .22 rifle beside our bed loaded with 10 rounds. I live in a condo and like my neighbors, so extreme penetration is not as important as quick expansion. I feel that the Velocitor fills that role very well.
I have a Winchester 69A that I got from my Great Grandfather 40+ years ago. I just recently took it out after refurbishing it. I shot different CCI ammo’s, Winchester, Remington, Federal, Hanson and others. I was really surprised that it shot all of them well. The Federal Hunter Match shot the best at 1MOA @ 50yds. Those old rifles are great shooters.
I have a mod 61 Winchester 22 pump (1947 ) The old girl is in great shape and can drive nails at 50-100 yards. Bushnell Target Master scope on her so I can see the targets. LOL :-) They don"t make them like they used to.
I know your comment is a bit old but, I go back a lot of times to watch Cumberland Outdoors often and read you comment. I just so happen to have the Winchester 69 in all original ( used but not abused ) condition with peep sight .Beautiful balance and it is man sized which I like. The 69 was only made for 2 years. 1935 and 1936. The difference is mine cocks on closing the bolt the 69a cocks on opening the bolt. Just some information for you. Happy shooting and hunting. Join the Gun Owners of America. They are fighting for our second amendment rights.
Most manufacturers use a Ruger 10-22 for chronographing their bullets velocity, but when my brother worked at Browning he said they used a 10-22 and a Marlin 60 and averaged the velocities.
Most 10/22's have a shorter barrel. Most bolt action rifles have 22 or 24 inch barrels, so the velocity is usually higher in longer barrels. Depending on the powder load of course.
A very good and informative video and I Thank You Kindly! I was wondering about this very topic just today and you’ve answered my questions. Thanks Again! Many Blessings! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
I really like your content and presentation along with your knowledge of the 22 rimfire ammo and how it works in the rifle you are using. Please remember to try not to shoot bullets faster than sound barrier. When the sound wave overtakes the bullet it can upset its flight.
I personally like to use standard velocity or sub-sonic ammo on targets and small game. It is quieter and usually more accurate at the ranges I encounter game at. High velocity ammo does have it's uses in the rimfire world though, especially when shooting at larger game such as ground hogs (wood chucks), raccoons, or foxes. The extra punch comes in handy, and some HV ammo is quite accurate as I have discovered. Most HV .22 rimfire ammo maintains it's super-sonic speed around 55-65 yards. After that, the bullets become somewhat unstable because the sonic wave catches up and tends to affect the flight as you stated, so groups generally start to open up a bit.
Great video again, I agree that accuracy is more important than expansion of the bullet for squirrel hunting, A well placed head shot drops them every time. My CZ 452 ultra lux with a 28 1/2 barrel is super accurate with Eley subsonic's hollow points or Federal Hunter match hollow points, You are right in saying that every gun is particular to a certain type of ammo, alot of shooting different bullets to find what your gun your shooting prefers. Thanks again for another great video.
The CZ 452 will go down as another tack-driver in the history of great .22's. I got some Eley HP's as well, but I haven't tried them yet. Maybe in an upcoming video. Thanks for the wonderful response.
How is your reliability with that Hunter Match? I have been finding 1-2 duds per box of 50. Haven't determined if it's my guns, the lot I got, or the ammo itself.
It's unfortunate that CCI doesn't make the Velocitor with the 40 gr. Gold Dot bullet any more. Perhaps it was a cost issue, but they performed even better than the Copper plated bullet they use now.
Bullet velocity is not always increasing with barrel length, sometimes a “shorter “, say 20”barrel, will outperform the “longer “, say 24” , depending on type and amount of powder charge, in addition to many other factors, of course I’m confident you are aware of this , just wasn’t made clear in this video, thanks for your good work
Ages ago, when I was reloading, I used wet soaked telephone books and stacked wet newspaper. Worked ok for me back then. I was surprised at the accuracy of the Dyna-point, and disappointed at the CCI MiniMag. But, as you explained, a different rifle may have a different preference to a specific ammo.
Always remember that you disturb more air with hyper velocity, then standard velocity and will open up the groups.I love the accuracy of my 17hmr but since it is so hyper velocity over the standard 22lr squirrels gey blown apart and jump around to much. I can definitely take longer shots with good rests but like the 22 short or long over 17hmr guess should know I'm an Oldman now with a collection of 22 rifles. I think my favorite is still the Springfield model 15 my grandfather paid 42 cents for it
My Remington 511 scoremaster shoots the golden bullet the best. For me the Golden bullet always seems more uniform and consistent in expansion and performance on small game.
How long was the rifle’s barrel? Also, can you tell us the rifling twist? I’m wondering if I could expect similar results in my own rifles. 14:52 If I recall your speeds earlier in the test correctly, it seems it was the faster bullets that hit higher than the slower bullets. Overall, I’m impressed with the Rem. Golden HP’s performance in this test. For hunting squirrels and such, I’ve always used the CCI Stinger, but I’m having a hard time finding them lately.
This is kind of a fantasy thing anymore. I can MAYBE find one or two types of 22LR ammo if I really search on the internet. No local store has ANYTHING. So it’s not like I can go out and pick and choose among various brands or types. You just have to take whatever you can...if anything at all.
Times have gotten better…not in stores but online. Over the past month I’ve squirreled away over 5000 rounds of 22LR…300 of this…500 of that…etc. I figure this might be a clearing in the midst of two price storms. All of it was overpriced, some more than others, but at least it’s in hand. And I’m thinking prices aren’t going backward any time soon if at all. God Bless America.
@Russell Weber Note that was 8 months ago. Very recently I went on an ammo binge online and found pretty much anything I wanted. Grabbed over 5000 rounds even though the prices were crazy. But still in local stores that I’ve been into there is hardly anything to be found. BTW: I live in Portland, OR.
How bad is it ?325 rnd bulk pack 22.00 dollars ( federal). 500 rnd was 33.00 dollars ( agulia ) in northern Michigan. Can't find it everyday though ....
@@robertlemaster7525 me and my buddies do a 3 county area ... Back woods gun shops are the best ! The reason 22 has been the focus is because that's all we can afford lately
I've watched A LOT of test , but not one using newspaper (25ydrs),awesome results ! At The 50yrd target test you said different rifle's like different ammo's, question. When doing test with different types ( your rifle liked the W.C. wildcat) is it the difference the ammo OR the fact that different ammo's work better with different rifle's assuming the velocity's are the same. I think 50yrd is the ideal distance for test range , But like you said.. of your rifle and scope are tuned in for a specific type ammo that giving tight groups Only use that ammo ? ? retune for every different ammo. Seems like the rifle TUNE is. As much a factor as the different types of ammo . I think I said that correctly.
To give you an example, I had 2 Marlin model 25's in .22lr. One preferred CCI standard velocity and the other Remington golden's. Also had 2 Mossberg model 702's. One preferred Blazer 40gr solids and the other preferred Aguila 40gr solids.....22 rifles sure are strange, eh? lol
"Readily available"... Funny! I worked as a photographer in the newspaper industry for 25 years.Judging by the daily shutdowns and increasing unemployment of my former colleagues, I would say readily available newspaper is soon to be a thing of the past. In the last 10 years 50% of newspapers have moved to online subscriptions only. Maybe your next hollow point test should be at computer monitors... where most people get their news. 😜
I have a local paper distributer that gives me as much newsprint as I want. I think most .22 hollowpoints would come completely apart on monitors, but i might consider doing a crazy video covering that.
.22 HP is deadly, I saw a penetration test comparing it with a 9mm HP, practically the same hole and destruction. I would rather carry a Kel-Tec PMR 30 with 30 .22 HP rounds than any 9mm pistol with 17 rounds. If you carry an extra mag then you have 60 shots at your disposal.
The issue is however the fragments don't cause as much damage due to the smaller size and dont travel as far in the body. Wound cavity can be similar but its the fragments that do the damage mostly and with 9mm having more energy the fragments also have more energy so they can go through far more flesh and muscle. This is why people use pistol caliber ammo is usually preferred over 22 or 5.7.
I think I still have a box of them around here. Iv'e been thinking of doing another video, comparing some more different brands of .22 hollowpoint. Thanks for the suggestion.
I have a browning sa22 that love's the velocity, I shoot st 100 yards,i can outdo center fire, clay birds no problem, it's the picies that get dicey, Eck usmc
I have a laundry room with the type of linoleum and cabinetry that doesn't mind moisture. I set a 4' diameter blue kiddie pool in the center of the 12' x 14' room. I set a 1 gallon jug filled with tap water in the center of the pool and fired one round of Velocitor into it from about 7 feet away and using my 1937 27" barrel Winchester Model 67. The ceiling was wet, I was wet, the windows, cabinets and floor from corner to corner was wet. - I'm used to one side of the gallon jug tearing a bit and a decent splash, from all my prior testing, but the Velocitor *EXPLODED* that gallon jug like I would expect more from a 9mm HP. I'm now a believer and when home I keep a .22 pistol filled with those or Winchester 1435 FPS HPs close at hand. *It would be very interesting to see what a 40gr 1435 FPS Browning or Winchester HP (same manu, I'm told) would end up looking like in your wet newspaper test.*
![ไข้ขึ้นเลย! เมื่อแฝดโดนจัดเต็มวัคซีนครบ2เดือน🤒 [cc] แดนแพทตี้ SS2 | EP.54 |](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z2VHItnyyvY/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for the video sir. I can appreciate how much effort you put into it. Good information.
Great video. The complete hunter info video all in one well done Sir.
Thank you for the compliment. I do appreciate it.
The Velocitor is the Best for bigger game like woodchucks, raccoons, and even coyotes at close range...I have shot the Remington Golden bullet quit a bit and it is a great performer for the price... I also use solids for Rabbits and Squirrels ...Sir you did a wonderful job on your video...Thank you very much
Thanks for the compliments. Those Velocitors are quite the round. I can really tell a difference when shooting them, especially in a pistol. instead of a pow from a regular cartridge, it's more like a POWW! when these go off.
The CCI Stinger has been my go-to hunting round for 40 years. I’ve dispatched squirrels, rabbits, cats, and dogs with those rounds.
I’ve never hunted coyote. I always thought they were too large for the .22 LR and assumed I’d need a .223 or larger. Perhaps not, I supposed. It really comes down to shot placement I guess. I always try for head shots when possible.
For plinking I’ve mostly used the Remington Thunderbolt. After watching this video, I’m going to try the Remington Golden bullets.
Shot hollow points for ever, slugs will go thru most small game with out knock down puns
Opps, shot a lot of rabbits up to coyotes that took more shots
I have and enjoy using the Winchester Dynapoint for practice and the Velocitor for small game and we keep our .22 rifle beside our bed loaded with 10 rounds.
I live in a condo and like my neighbors, so extreme penetration is not as important as quick expansion. I feel that the Velocitor fills that role very well.
Very informative information regarding HV .22 rimfire ! Popular brands tested too! Great job!
I have a Winchester 69A that I got from my Great Grandfather 40+ years ago. I just recently took it out after refurbishing it. I shot different CCI ammo’s, Winchester, Remington, Federal, Hanson and others. I was really surprised that it shot all of them well. The Federal Hunter Match shot the best at 1MOA @ 50yds. Those old rifles are great shooters.
I have a mod 61 Winchester 22 pump (1947 ) The old girl is in great shape and can drive nails at 50-100 yards. Bushnell Target Master scope on her so I can see the targets. LOL :-) They don"t make them like they used to.
I know your comment is a bit old but, I go back a lot of times to watch Cumberland Outdoors often and read you comment. I just so happen to have the Winchester 69 in all original ( used but not abused ) condition with peep sight .Beautiful balance and it is man sized which I like. The 69 was only made for 2 years. 1935 and 1936. The difference is mine cocks on closing the bolt the 69a cocks on opening the bolt. Just some information for you. Happy shooting and hunting. Join the Gun Owners of America. They are fighting for our second amendment rights.
Most manufacturers use a Ruger 10-22 for chronographing their bullets velocity, but when my brother worked at Browning he said they used a 10-22 and a Marlin 60 and averaged the velocities.
Most 10/22's have a shorter barrel. Most bolt action rifles have 22 or 24 inch barrels, so the velocity is usually higher in longer barrels. Depending on the powder load of course.
Thank you for your testing. I enjoyed it.
I'll be doing some more in the near future.
I had decided to buy some Winchester HV bullets before finding and watching the video. I see now it was a good decision! Glad I found your video!
Great video
Working man's hands. Because of that I trust anything you say.
You’ve got my subscription sir, fantastic video
Glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for watching, and your support is much appreciated.
A very good and informative video and I Thank You Kindly! I was wondering about this very topic just today and you’ve answered my questions. Thanks Again! Many Blessings! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
The king of excellent ballistics testing, tnoutdoors9, was the first I ever saw use wet newspaper media, back 10-12 years ago.
I really like your content and presentation along with your knowledge of the 22 rimfire ammo and how it works in the rifle you are using. Please remember to try not to shoot bullets faster than sound barrier. When the sound wave overtakes the bullet it can upset its flight.
I personally like to use standard velocity or sub-sonic ammo on targets and small game. It is quieter and usually more accurate at the ranges I encounter game at. High velocity ammo does have it's uses in the rimfire world though, especially when shooting at larger game such as ground hogs (wood chucks), raccoons, or foxes. The extra punch comes in handy, and some HV ammo is quite accurate as I have discovered. Most HV .22 rimfire ammo maintains it's super-sonic speed around 55-65 yards. After that, the bullets become somewhat unstable because the sonic wave catches up and tends to affect the flight as you stated, so groups generally start to open up a bit.
Great video again, I agree that accuracy is more important than expansion of the bullet for squirrel hunting, A well placed head shot drops them every time. My CZ 452 ultra lux with a 28 1/2 barrel is super accurate with Eley subsonic's hollow points or Federal Hunter match hollow points, You are right in saying that every gun is particular to a certain type of ammo, alot of shooting different bullets to find what your gun your shooting prefers. Thanks again for another great video.
The CZ 452 will go down as another tack-driver in the history of great .22's. I got some Eley HP's as well, but I haven't tried them yet. Maybe in an upcoming video. Thanks for the wonderful response.
How is your reliability with that Hunter Match? I have been finding 1-2 duds per box of 50. Haven't determined if it's my guns, the lot I got, or the ammo itself.
@@rob6850 No problems at all, great ammo.
@@CumberlandOutdoorsman you'll never have proper accuracy if you hold or touch the barrel
It's unfortunate that CCI doesn't make the Velocitor with the 40 gr. Gold Dot bullet any more. Perhaps it was a cost issue, but they performed even better than the Copper plated bullet they use now.
U gotta love the little .22 a very underestimated round from birds to hogs u can't knock it
@Michael Stellar if that's all I had I would use it for home defense for sure
@B C
I’m glad you qualified your statement with “pretty much” because there are quite a few animals in Alaska (and Canada) that won’t fall to a .22LR.
Bullet velocity is not always increasing with barrel length, sometimes a “shorter “, say 20”barrel, will outperform the “longer “, say 24” , depending on type and amount of powder charge, in addition to many other factors, of course I’m confident you are aware of this , just wasn’t made clear in this video, thanks for your good work
Great video!, have you ever done this with 22 Cal. Pistols
Thanks, yes I have. Here's the link. th-cam.com/video/fEtTCpm--Rc/w-d-xo.html
@@CumberlandOutdoorsman Thanks can't wait to see it!
Thanks for the tip on small game loads. Never used a 22 for them before.
Ages ago, when I was reloading, I used wet soaked telephone books and stacked wet newspaper. Worked ok for me back then. I was surprised at the accuracy of the Dyna-point, and disappointed at the CCI MiniMag. But, as you explained, a different rifle may have a different preference to a specific ammo.
Always remember that you disturb more air with hyper velocity, then standard velocity and will open up the groups.I love the accuracy of my 17hmr but since it is so hyper velocity over the standard 22lr squirrels gey blown apart and jump around to much. I can definitely take longer shots with good rests but like the 22 short or long over 17hmr guess should know I'm an Oldman now with a collection of 22 rifles. I think my favorite is still the Springfield model 15 my grandfather paid 42 cents for it
My Remington 511 scoremaster shoots the golden bullet the best. For me the Golden bullet always seems more uniform and consistent in expansion and performance on small game.
I am equally impressed by them. They deserve more appreciation than they get.
I wish you would have used the nickel on all of those groups, your video was nice.
Keep up the good work and keep on keeping on.
Thank You sir. Great video.
Thanks, I appreciate it. Hope to bring you more.
Lol "Wet Newspaper!" Sounds funny 👀
Nicely done! Thanks so much
Thanks for the compliment.
Great video and good shootin.
Back in my day people could go shooting for fun.
Slug & buck shell's are hard to find now.
You are a good shot with a great rifle
Another great vid. Thanks C.O. Doug your Lincoln Co. Viewer.
Thanks for the nice compliment.
Both the dynapoint and small game bullet are both accurate and very functional in my guns on all game up to coyote.
Neve could figure out why they put the indent on the dynapoint. Still one of my favorite rounds.
Creates a spinning balanced vortex in front of the bullet helping to prevent non-concentric destabilization.
How long was the rifle’s barrel? Also, can you tell us the rifling twist?
I’m wondering if I could expect similar results in my own rifles.
14:52
If I recall your speeds earlier in the test correctly, it seems it was the faster bullets that hit higher than the slower bullets. Overall, I’m impressed with the Rem. Golden HP’s performance in this test.
For hunting squirrels and such, I’ve always used the CCI Stinger, but I’m having a hard time finding them lately.
I would not use the stingers if you want to have any meat left. They do far too much damage on small game.
This is kind of a fantasy thing anymore. I can MAYBE find one or two types of 22LR ammo if I really search on the internet. No local store has ANYTHING. So it’s not like I can go out and pick and choose among various brands or types. You just have to take whatever you can...if anything at all.
I hear you my friend. All of what you said is painfully true, especially in times like these!
Times have gotten better…not in stores but online. Over the past month I’ve squirreled away over 5000 rounds of 22LR…300 of this…500 of that…etc. I figure this might be a clearing in the midst of two price storms. All of it was overpriced, some more than others, but at least it’s in hand. And I’m thinking prices aren’t going backward any time soon if at all. God Bless America.
@Russell Weber Note that was 8 months ago. Very recently I went on an ammo binge online and found pretty much anything I wanted. Grabbed over 5000 rounds even though the prices were crazy. But still in local stores that I’ve been into there is hardly anything to be found. BTW: I live in Portland, OR.
@David Mathews I Put A reply I hope it helps you in your Search
Around 20$ for 500 rounds. Oh how I'm missing those days...
I miss just finding it at any price...
@@robertlemaster7525 I agree. I never find it locally. And I'm not paying 70 or 80 for 500 rounds on GB. INSANE.
How bad is it ?325 rnd bulk pack 22.00 dollars ( federal). 500 rnd was 33.00 dollars ( agulia ) in northern Michigan. Can't find it everyday though ....
@@papimiami1938 damn, you're doing something right. I cant even find 20 or 12 gauge in #6 shot at Walmart or Dicks. Let alone decent 22LR.
@@robertlemaster7525 me and my buddies do a 3 county area ... Back woods gun shops are the best ! The reason 22 has been the focus is because that's all we can afford lately
Can you use plastic jugs of water for testing? Instead of newspaper?
I've watched A LOT of test , but not one using newspaper (25ydrs),awesome results ! At The 50yrd target test you said different rifle's like different ammo's, question. When doing test with different types ( your rifle liked the W.C. wildcat) is it the difference the ammo OR the fact that different ammo's work better with different rifle's assuming the velocity's are the same. I think 50yrd is the ideal distance for test range , But like you said.. of your rifle and scope are tuned in for a specific type ammo that giving tight groups Only use that ammo ? ? retune for every different ammo. Seems like the rifle TUNE is. As much a factor as the different types of ammo . I think I said that correctly.
To give you an example, I had 2 Marlin model 25's in .22lr. One preferred CCI standard velocity and the other Remington golden's. Also had 2 Mossberg model 702's. One preferred Blazer 40gr solids and the other preferred Aguila 40gr solids.....22 rifles sure are strange, eh? lol
"Readily available"... Funny!
I worked as a photographer in the newspaper industry for 25 years.Judging by the daily shutdowns and increasing unemployment of my former colleagues, I would say readily available newspaper is soon to be a thing of the past. In the last 10 years 50% of newspapers have moved to online subscriptions only.
Maybe your next hollow point test should be at computer monitors... where most people get their news. 😜
I have a local paper distributer that gives me as much newsprint as I want. I think most .22 hollowpoints would come completely apart on monitors, but i might consider doing a crazy video covering that.
.22 HP is deadly, I saw a penetration test comparing it with a 9mm HP, practically the same hole and destruction. I would rather carry a Kel-Tec PMR 30 with 30 .22 HP rounds than any 9mm pistol with 17 rounds. If you carry an extra mag then you have 60 shots at your disposal.
The PMR 30 is 22 magnum.
This is why I decided to buy a glock 44
The issue is however the fragments don't cause as much damage due to the smaller size and dont travel as far in the body. Wound cavity can be similar but its the fragments that do the damage mostly and with 9mm having more energy the fragments also have more energy so they can go through far more flesh and muscle. This is why people use pistol caliber ammo is usually preferred over 22 or 5.7.
Thanks I just got 200 of the Win 22s I never saw that type B 4
the box said 1300 FPS 40 gr
had an old box of federal lighting hypervelocity, dont think they make em anymore, was a hard cast goin 1800 fps
Great video thank you
Oh, ya. I subscribed.
Thanks for watching and subscribing. Have a blessed day.
This video looks like it was filmed in the '09 or '10.
That's because I was using an older camera at the time. Which is why I should do another video with my newer equipment.
So which one had the biggest mushroom?
When you get a chance I'd like to see armscore 22 hollow points reviewed the advertising at 1260 FPS
I think I still have a box of them around here. Iv'e been thinking of doing another video, comparing some more different brands of .22 hollowpoint. Thanks for the suggestion.
Are you a Brick Mason???
Your fingers and hands look it!!!
Great info mate!
I have a browning sa22 that love's the velocity, I shoot st 100 yards,i can outdo center fire, clay birds no problem, it's the picies that get dicey, Eck usmc
I use shorts for squirrels and rabbits, does fine
What animal ran across the back right side of your video after the cci small game round?
Don't touch the barrel with your thumb, you messing up the harmonics.
I'm up here in Morgan Co Tn. Where abouts in the state are you? I don't want your address or anything, just curious of region or county.
I use shorts for squirrel and rabbit
Forgot Stingers
I like your intro music, may I ask who it is and the name of that piece?
I have a laundry room with the type of linoleum and cabinetry that doesn't mind moisture. I set a 4' diameter blue kiddie pool in the center of the 12' x 14' room. I set a 1 gallon jug filled with tap water in the center of the pool and fired one round of Velocitor into it from about 7 feet away and using my 1937 27" barrel Winchester Model 67.
The ceiling was wet, I was wet, the windows, cabinets and floor from corner to corner was wet.
- I'm used to one side of the gallon jug tearing a bit and a decent splash, from all my prior testing, but the Velocitor *EXPLODED* that gallon jug like I would expect more from a 9mm HP.
I'm now a believer and when home I keep a .22 pistol filled with those or Winchester 1435 FPS HPs close at hand.
*It would be very interesting to see what a 40gr 1435 FPS Browning or Winchester HP (same manu, I'm told) would end up looking like in your wet newspaper test.*
I can't remember who the artist is, but the title of this song is "Dirty Mac". It is one from the TH-cam studio non-copyright selections.
@@CumberlandOutdoorsman Thank you, I'll go hunting with fully loaded headphones.
Just paid 100 bucks for a bulk pack. 2021
145 Australian dollars for a brick 500 rounds for SK flat nose and that aint the dearest GOOD REVIEW BTW. CHEERS
_.22LR is a good medicine for dogs_