Makes complete sense coming from an EV tech for many years now. The ability to control an electric motor nowadays is phenomenal. The inputs for instruction to a motor controller to ramp up or down a motor according to whatever your needs are is nearly limitless.
Week three of recovery from high side broken wrist with surgery. So much learning, during and after the slide (eguipment did its job very well ). Came across this vid and it’s the best thing I’ve seen in these weeks of doom scrolling, thank you both. I’ve been a cycleworld follower since the mid 80’s, y’all still got it 🫡👍
Euphonious gearboxes? Are any of the Packard engineers still with us? Absolutely musical three speeds with overdrive. You sang your way through acceleration, conducting the splined orchestra with the wand of the gear lever.
It's great that Honda still has the spirit of motorbike innovation. I hope they can put this concept out there at a marketable price. I see the parallel twin being so popular because of its cost (one cylinder head).
Hi I remember grinding helmet and points case cover on my Honda k2,down the road, this is why I listen to you guys it reminds me of a beautiful life one can have on a motorcycle, love and appreciate you guys, thank you 😊
It is Honda fighting the Empire, make no mistake and we owe Honda a debt of gratitude for it. It is a perfect design solution to shut EU bureaucrats up and goes a long way to keeping ICE´s alive. The design is brilliant due to the supercharger providing positive pressure on the intake plenum which negates the need for high overlap at high engine regimes. The result is high power with low overlap meaning low losses of intake charge which cause high emissions. No doubt climate bureaucracy will fight back but it is a fantastic step by Honda. It also means the exhaust system design is greatly simplified as no scavenging is required, think of the simplicity of WW2 fighter plane exhausts or full tilt mode drag cars. The V3 layout means it will not be for low to mid-range models but for high-end models due to the higher costs associated. I would not be surprised if the top end of the CBR range will be equipped with this engine layout. Imagine how slim, lightweight and powerful a CBR750RR would be. Then they say Honda is boring.
Them making motorcycling harder makes no sense at all, the alternative is everyone goes around on cars instead of 2 wheelers even when they're travelling alone which would cause even more pollution and space problems than before
I don't have much to say about 99% of what you say as I'm not an engineer, but your last sentence is completely wrong IMHO. I say this because of late the bikes that Honda has been producing are nothing short of 2 wheeled hearses. And I say that as a lifelong Honda fan from the 80s.
@@Jungleland33 Honda is a more conservative company, no doubt about it. That is a key reason they are so reliable, which to me is very, very appealing. They say Honda´s don´t have much ´character´ which I can only imagine is because they are trouble-free. You say ´hearses´, lol. I think that´s a bit too harsh but that´s just me.
I loved my '81 RD350L/C when I was flat out in the twisties tap dancing on the shifter. But my 1050 Speed Triple has a torque curve Kevin could sleep soundly on. I love cranking out of a 40 mph hairpin in 3rd and winding it up to 100 before shutting down for the next turn without ever shifting. An 850 triple with less weight and more power might convince me to part with my hard earned cash.
The 45 MW Natural Gas Fired Siemens/Westinghouse Combustion Turbine at my work uses a 3500 H.P. Electric Supercharger to give sea level performance at 2500 ft. (From 40 to 45MW. Electric motor draws 320 Amps at 4160 volts.)
@@stubbsmuffin nets about 3.5 MW and adds heat to the waste heat boiler. Steam Production for the plant processes is a high priority. (Simple Cycle Co-Generation. About 300k lbs/hr of 150 psi steam.) P.S. Back in 1985 when commissioned, the power contract with Southern California Edison was lucrative and another 3+ megawatts of exported powers was a lot of money. Plant used about 17 MW back then.
320A at 4160 volts, im only getting 1.33MW, or ~1800HP, so wheres this 3500HP part come from? then... 4160/320 for 13R. thats the maximum resistance the motors windings can have to pass that current at that voltage... should be far less, in reality. so the windings are dissipating 320x320x13R watts, or... 1.33MW... in just resistive heating. thats electrical consumption, not the shaft power. so whats the actual output of this motor? torque? RPM?
@@paradiselost9946 Had to think about that. I retired almost 10 years ago. 3500 was on the nameplate. Air Control Vanes were closed for start and opened until around 420 Amps. The Amperage occasionally ran about 427 and I would think of a V-8 engine displacement.
I love this pod cast every week and I shouldn’t have commented so strongly on story complaining cuz it is the nice salt and pepper to our meal of knowledge. Thank you guys
Here's to Honda and their innovations, hope this comes to past. Granted I don't see many sport bikes on the roads around where I live anymore, but I do see an Aprilia RSV4 1100. It's a good one. Just thought I'd mention it.
Electric powered forced air charger will certainly add power but will it make the powertrain more efficient? Honda is all about efficiency. Was there no mention of the electric supercharger increasing efficiency? I'm surprised that they would use a V3 engine configuration. I don't see any engineering benefit to a V3 engine configuration. I'm guessing they didn't want to use a more efficient engine configuration like the inline 3 because they didn't want to ride on Yamahas coat-tail.
35:00 People always seem to forget the BMW K1600 inline-six which is still available on the market right now, when discussing the Honda CBX! 🙂 Surprisingly, the BMW inline-six doesn't seem that wide, but when your normal engine is a flat engine I guess there isn't that much difference in width.
I have an electric skateboard runs at 44.4 volts has 2 brushless out rigger motors and gets me to 70 km/h. Also have Rc cars that can do 100mph with ease. The electric motor tech today and the speed controllers (esc) are crazy. Wish it was around when I was a kid.
Questions regarding the V-3 e-supercharged Honda--Wouldn't they need to incorporate an intercooler if they want to avoid detonation at maximum boost while maintaining compression ratio sufficient for efficient power output at low boost? Lacking room for an air-to-air intercooler, could they use a water-to-air intercooler in that tiny space behind the steering head? Thanks again for another great discussion.
how is this for a topic, you two do an open air meet and greet live at a motorcycle event. bring in a guest, talk about stuff, You can make us smile and Keven can make us feel stupid, (but in a good way) Question and answers from the crowd ect. Cycle World has been a small part of our lives.
Skidoo Direct injection two stroke snowmobiles Now have a Turbo model.. 800 CC's, It makes 184 HP at Sea Level and at 10,000 feet it has an electronically controlled pop off valve. Instead of adding the weight of an aftercooler they added water/methanol injection. Polaris has a Turbo charged two stroke sled too .
Why build a V3? Honda: Aside from any potential packaging advantages... It's not an inline triple. It's not a parallel twin. We know we can build this. & We sure got everyone's attention, didn't we?
Apparently a V3 has better primary balance than a inline triple. It uses the same 75-degree Vee angle balancing strategy as their V5 MotoGP bike apparently (bigger counterweights opposing the bank with less cylinders). But yeah I guess they are doing it just because it's neat! Something different than the competition.
Did Honda mention whether the idea is to allow long periods of supercharger operation, like would be used on a track, or just short bursts of extra power that would be enough for the street. That would change the design significantly. For short bursts of supercharging, the alternator could be much smaller and the supercharger would be powered by a battery, possibly with a large capacitor to spin it up. Otherwise, the alternator/generator would need to be much larger to continuously supply enough power to run the supercharger. My preference, which would probably not be as popular, would be to have a higher compression engine for better all-around efficiency and use water (or water/methanol) injection during the intervals of boost.
Significantly undersquare may provide enough resistance to detonation and help to achieve euro 6 compliance. Even so with a compression ratio, probably 12/1 +/- boost would be limited to 5 psi I believe. Although with other available technologies such as variable compression and/or high pressure directed injection to insure turbulence, boost could rise to a quite entertaining level. I know the breakneck speed of new bike development is in the rear view, but I am excited that Honda's magic lantern may shine bright once again.
Do remember yamaha created the 2wd motocross not with chains and bevels but hydraulic pipes driving the front end.didnt catch on but the hydraulic idea in itself had the showroom finish.other ideas where very brash. Regards Liverpool uk.excellent show full of knowledgeable brain food many thanks.
I'm optimistic, but I remember being so let down by Suzuki not following through with the Recursion a decade or so ago. I acknowledge it wasn't electric, but I have been wishing for forced induction for so many years. Please bring it Honda.
My friend came up with a way of completely eliminating turbo lag on his 79 KZ1300 that he put a Mr Turbo kit on, nitrous. It was set up to give just a little shot at WOT and boy howdy did that thing work, boost was instantaneous. I can guarantee you that set up on 1979 tires and suspension with 1979 brakes is the most evil motorcycle you will ever ride in your life, nothing, not those old Kawasaki trip 2 strokes, any TZ750 or any open class 2 stroke dirt bikes wound put you in a hospital faster than that thing, it was Satan on wheels, a real life motorcycle version of the 1977 movie The Car, 100% demon possessed.
I rode an 85’ kx 500 a few times when I was 13 and weighed 135 pounds. I had to stand on a milk crate to get on it. It was a buddies older brother’s bike. It was scary AF but I survived. Waaaaay more torque than my 125 at the time but the 125 taught me about powerband hit.
I remember when BMW owned Husqvarna and presented a V-3 concept. It seems Pierer found a 3 cylinder MV Agusta instead. Every technology has its time. World Rally Championship cars tried some things in the 90's like Audi spooling a turbo electrically to avoid lag. VW had a twin- engined Golf with motors connected by cables. Synchronisation was a problem.
On the subject of additive manufacturing being just a bunch of blobs with crappy welds. There is a huge range in processes available today and most of them are crappy to one degree or another. But at the high end, there are machines today that can build aircraft turbine blades that out perform the single crystal cast blades that made mass air travel possible. I never would have believed it as the single crystal turbine blade was the pinnacle of manufacturing technology I was studying Engineering.
I remember looking at electric supercharging for small engines for a college project over 40 years ago. At the time, batteries were not up to the task and, of course, very small efficient compressor turbines were not off-the-shelf items either. Relatively small, inexpensive efficient dc motors did not come about until decades later when e-scooter demand pushed the prices down.
From Hot Rod in Sept 2020 - "All F1 competitors have been using electrically augmented turbos and energy recuperation since 2014. Mercedes-AMG has been dominating F1 since the current rules went into effect in 2014. Mercedes builds its own F1 engines and e-turbos"
Honda reached the top of F1 engines since 2021 to present too. 🙂 Their first hybrid turbo F1 engine with an ultra-compact (rumoured) axial compressor in 2015 was not great though.
Back in 2003 I had the then new Kawasaki Z1000 and a pal had a current Yamaha R6. One day we swapped bikes and I didn't get my bike back until we got back home! The Z1000 was no torque monster but compared to the R6, it was according to him, so much easier to ride fast on the road than the R6.
I rode up pikes peak with my R50 6.8/1 compression ratio no problems . I also ran that bike on 50% diesel in summer .The first blowers were hair driers .
Sometimes i used mim'd parts in certain gun building. I too, thought " could we run this part through a coil and give it polarity, align the domains so it wasn't like filing a rock?
Thanks for a fascinating look into your thoughts on this incredible new Honda concept. My thoughts are as follows. I don't think this new motor will find a home in any 'new' Honda bike. I think it will be gradually introduced to the existing line up of Honda bikes. I think the first recipient will be the Africa Twin and it's doppelganger the venerable NT1100. Honda has had a patent on this e-supercharger since 2019 so, with development completed, there shouldn't be much delay at all getting this new device in the showroom and out on the road. The industry needs something like this badly as sales worldwide are not exactly on fire. Honda would be wanting to stem the tide with an exciting thing such as this. Remember, most reviewers say that the main competitive disadvantage an Africa Twin has against the GS, Triumph or Ducati Multi is that it only has 100hp. This triple would fix that resoundingly in one fell swoop. Honda would definitely get my money - I'd love an Africa Triple! ;-)
I was so excited for this podcast to learn about the technical aspects of why they’re doing a V3 electric supercharge vehicle and 10 minutes of my time is just stories I love you guys but like I’m sure I’m not alone I want to hear the technical knowledge during this podcast
they're probably running a custom voltage regulator on the bikes alternator like a car uses, so all they have to do is feed the field coil more current to get more boost from the supercharger.
or, to the point on using the starter for additional oomph, rather than batteries, a lithium ion super capacitor bank.. new tech with crazy high energy density, use it like rechargeable nitros in one of those video games 😆 great to hear I wasn't the only one thinking of this
"IF" there was a boosted race class, the closed course bike could use battery power for the supercharger, thus separating it from both mechanical and electrical drag on the engine. Would take 5 seconds for a fresh battery at pit stops. Not to mention re-gen braking providing both a bit of charge as well as taking a bit of loading off the brakes - if not the tire.
I think Kevin is missing something important. Japan has gotten very good at kinetic energy recovery to generate electricity. Such a generator hub on that bike would remove any parasitic losses from that supercharger. All the pluses of power adders without any minuses. There has to be a capacitor or battery anyway.
It's been a while since I heard of a step change that holds so much promise. And now that they have tipped their hands the fruits will be sure to follow, from someone if not Honda.
I suppose it's possible to render a 120° crank-pin orientation even with the V block, no doubt a counter-rotating shaft will be used to reduce buzz. System conversion to 48V shouldn't be a problem. The potential weight penalty will come in from the turbine motor, turbine, electrical cabling, controller, coolant routing, bigger battery (lithium or lead-acid, who knows) and beefy alternator for supplying power for the turbine. Weight reduction over simply giving us a bigger displacement engine with VVT, rather than all the complexity of electric powered induction? Is the exercise a matter of pleasing the climate bureaucrats or providing a better overall motorcycle experience without ownership fatigue?
VW happily runs 11.7:1 comp ratio on their EA888 Gen3B turbo 2L. It uses direct injection and a modified miller cycle. Also had a valve lift system on intake Imagine a bike with the ability to provide maximum boost instantly for overtaking at press of a button
Why a triple? To me, a twin makes more sense - up in the mountains, where punch and ground clearance is king, the twin is king. Twins can sound wonderful - ever heard a KTM 950 (75°) rev with its twin exhausts?
AIRBOX MOUSE No intercooler needed if you don't over-compress the air ??? Where is all that wattage coming from. You'll need to cool the stator. HD offers a specialty oil for primary lubrication and stator frying. Joking aside you could run the blower with high voltage AC off the stator and the rest stays 12 volts with a standard 12 volt starting battery. No need to reinvent the wheel. Honda has a great idea. I think of it every time I'm digging a mouse nest out of an airbox... why can't I have him running on a wheel in there making boost.
I’d love to see you guys test and discuss the TTS Rotrex Supercharged Suzuki Hayabusa!! Hit up Richard Albans, owner of TTS in the UK, and I’m sure he’d be glad to have you guys!!
Many years ago I remember seeing an ad in a car magazine for an intake manifold with two electric motors running turbines for a Ford 289 engine. This is not a "new" idea. Let Yamaha use this to cram air into a fuel-injected liquid cooled RD 350 2-stroke.
All the Hondas I had back in the 60's had dead batteries . Just go electric , instant power . Taiwan has some good ones , but I wait for solid state batteries or the blade batteries . Motorbikes are the best place for wheel motors or Aptera . Does Honda have a trike I built a fun one with 305 engine .
Simple analogue / mechanical systems function well enough for my humble needs .A single cylinder Velocette with carburettor fuel air mixture control & magneto ignition, the joy is in the freedom 0oif the road not what millions of clever computer calculations and digital interpolations of divrse data from myrriad misbegotten sensors are interposed between the rider and the engine
what did you do ? something is different. you look like by buddies step dad did in 1993. i mean you got the look. Is that what you were going for ? Men blossom like flowers, at a certain age. Near 50 years of age, a flower blooms on their upper lip. most times its a haloween experiment, but its always wonderful to witness.
Boost makes more torque because you can make more power with out extra RPM's My second Street bike was a 1976 RD-400-C I sure embarrassed a lot of Harley Sportsters with it. Fathers would not let me take their daughters on dates on a motorcycle, so I ordered a brand new 1979 Z-28 Camaro. When it had 14,000 miles on it I did cam headers.. Holley street Dominator intake 600 Holley Double pumper carb. The cam was the 327 350 HP grind.. Bigger sway bars.. and maybe a year later I added 110 HP Nitrous kit to it .
Battery yes but the alternator/generator can be a more "efficient" design while keeping the same packaging. It does requires a entire change of the electronic system in general. Theres areas to lose weight in other areas to compensate as well like the 6th gen goldwing starter generator unit they talk about as well.
Typical motorcycles use a permanent magnet alternator. So any energy that isn't used to run the bike and charge the starting battery is wasted off as heat. Might as well put it to good use
Makes complete sense coming from an EV tech for many years now. The ability to control an electric motor nowadays is phenomenal. The inputs for instruction to a motor controller to ramp up or down a motor according to whatever your needs are is nearly limitless.
Week three of recovery from high side broken wrist with surgery. So much learning, during and after the slide (eguipment did its job very well ). Came across this vid and it’s the best thing I’ve seen in these weeks of doom scrolling, thank you both. I’ve been a cycleworld follower since the mid 80’s, y’all still got it 🫡👍
Euphonious gearboxes? Are any of the Packard engineers still with us? Absolutely musical three speeds with overdrive. You sang your way through acceleration, conducting the splined orchestra with the wand of the gear lever.
It's great that Honda still has the spirit of motorbike innovation. I hope they can put this concept out there at a marketable price. I see the parallel twin being so popular because of its cost (one cylinder head).
Hi I remember grinding helmet and points case cover on my Honda k2,down the road, this is why I listen to you guys it reminds me of a beautiful life one can have on a motorcycle, love and appreciate you guys, thank you 😊
Kevin, on crashing: "A lot of thinking goes on as you slide up the road." I love that.
It is Honda fighting the Empire, make no mistake and we owe Honda a debt of gratitude for it. It is a perfect design solution to shut EU bureaucrats up and goes a long way to keeping ICE´s alive. The design is brilliant due to the supercharger providing positive pressure on the intake plenum which negates the need for high overlap at high engine regimes. The result is high power with low overlap meaning low losses of intake charge which cause high emissions. No doubt climate bureaucracy will fight back but it is a fantastic step by Honda. It also means the exhaust system design is greatly simplified as no scavenging is required, think of the simplicity of WW2 fighter plane exhausts or full tilt mode drag cars. The V3 layout means it will not be for low to mid-range models but for high-end models due to the higher costs associated. I would not be surprised if the top end of the CBR range will be equipped with this engine layout. Imagine how slim, lightweight and powerful a CBR750RR would be. Then they say Honda is boring.
Change of leadership in Europe would be better
@@stewartmckinley7058 Agreed. I do believe that is coming for some countries. Nevertheless, I believe the EU has it´s days numbered.
Them making motorcycling harder makes no sense at all, the alternative is everyone goes around on cars instead of 2 wheelers even when they're travelling alone which would cause even more pollution and space problems than before
I don't have much to say about 99% of what you say as I'm not an engineer, but your last sentence is completely wrong IMHO. I say this because of late the bikes that Honda has been producing are nothing short of 2 wheeled hearses. And I say that as a lifelong Honda fan from the 80s.
@@Jungleland33 Honda is a more conservative company, no doubt about it. That is a key reason they are so reliable, which to me is very, very appealing. They say Honda´s don´t have much ´character´ which I can only imagine is because they are trouble-free. You say ´hearses´, lol. I think that´s a bit too harsh but that´s just me.
YT gold! Why so few thumbs up? Because we forget, because you've got us thinking!
So should I brake apart the leaf blower or not?
I loved my '81 RD350L/C when I was flat out in the twisties tap dancing on the shifter. But my 1050 Speed Triple has a torque curve Kevin could sleep soundly on. I love cranking out of a 40 mph hairpin in 3rd and winding it up to 100 before shutting down for the next turn without ever shifting. An 850 triple with less weight and more power might convince me to part with my hard earned cash.
MV-Agusta Brutale 800.
Another fascinating and most enjoyable Cycle World tech delight. Thank you so much for amazing me!
The 45 MW Natural Gas Fired Siemens/Westinghouse Combustion Turbine at my work uses a 3500 H.P. Electric Supercharger to give sea level performance at 2500 ft.
(From 40 to 45MW. Electric motor draws 320 Amps at 4160 volts.)
wow!
Thats nuts. Though it doesn't seem to make sense if efficiency is your goal. Which is usually the goal for electrical generation
@@stubbsmuffin nets about 3.5 MW and adds heat to the waste heat boiler. Steam Production for the plant processes is a high priority.
(Simple Cycle Co-Generation. About 300k lbs/hr of 150 psi steam.)
P.S. Back in 1985 when commissioned, the power contract with Southern California Edison was lucrative and another 3+ megawatts of exported powers was a lot of money. Plant used about 17 MW back then.
320A at 4160 volts, im only getting 1.33MW, or ~1800HP, so wheres this 3500HP part come from?
then...
4160/320 for 13R. thats the maximum resistance the motors windings can have to pass that current at that voltage... should be far less, in reality.
so the windings are dissipating 320x320x13R watts, or... 1.33MW... in just resistive heating.
thats electrical consumption, not the shaft power. so whats the actual output of this motor? torque? RPM?
@@paradiselost9946
Had to think about that. I retired almost 10 years ago.
3500 was on the nameplate. Air Control Vanes were closed for start and opened until around 420 Amps.
The Amperage occasionally ran about 427 and I would think of a V-8 engine displacement.
I love this pod cast every week and I shouldn’t have commented so strongly on story complaining cuz it is the nice salt and pepper to our meal of knowledge. Thank you guys
This motorcycle made me think of the hillbilly engineered smog pump supercharging on mini bikes that I've seen on TH-cam over the last few years!
Honda showing off their engineering expertise.
Here's to Honda and their innovations, hope this comes to past. Granted I don't see many sport bikes on the roads around where I live anymore, but I do see an Aprilia RSV4 1100. It's a good one. Just thought I'd mention it.
Electric powered forced air charger will certainly add power but will it make the powertrain more efficient?
Honda is all about efficiency. Was there no mention of the electric supercharger increasing efficiency?
I'm surprised that they would use a V3 engine configuration.
I don't see any engineering benefit to a V3 engine configuration.
I'm guessing they didn't want to use a more efficient engine configuration like the inline 3 because they didn't want to ride on Yamahas coat-tail.
35:00 People always seem to forget the BMW K1600 inline-six which is still available on the market right now, when discussing the Honda CBX! 🙂 Surprisingly, the BMW inline-six doesn't seem that wide, but when your normal engine is a flat engine I guess there isn't that much difference in width.
Mr Cameron you just made Helmholtz smile!
I have an electric skateboard runs at 44.4 volts has 2 brushless out rigger motors and gets me to 70 km/h. Also have Rc cars that can do 100mph with ease. The electric motor tech today and the speed controllers (esc) are crazy. Wish it was around when I was a kid.
Questions regarding the V-3 e-supercharged Honda--Wouldn't they need to incorporate an intercooler if they want to avoid detonation at maximum boost while maintaining compression ratio sufficient for efficient power output at low boost? Lacking room for an air-to-air intercooler, could they use a water-to-air intercooler in that tiny space behind the steering head? Thanks again for another great discussion.
The H2 has a centrifugal compressor wich is basically the same, and does fine without an intercooler
I think you can go without it cos the boost is low and the compressor housing is not close to extreme heat like in a turbo.
how is this for a topic, you two do an open air meet and greet live at a motorcycle event. bring in a guest, talk about stuff, You can make us smile and Keven can make us feel stupid, (but in a good way) Question and answers from the crowd ect. Cycle World has been a small part of our lives.
Skidoo Direct injection two stroke snowmobiles Now have a Turbo model.. 800 CC's, It makes 184 HP at Sea Level and at 10,000 feet it has an electronically controlled pop off valve. Instead of adding the weight of an aftercooler they added water/methanol injection.
Polaris has a Turbo charged two stroke sled too .
Great podcast fella’s
With the V3 being narrower than an Inline 3 could they use side radiators like on the VFR 800? Could that be a packaging advantage?
The VFR800 is a twin, so no.
Why build a V3?
Honda: Aside from any potential packaging advantages...
It's not an inline triple.
It's not a parallel twin.
We know we can build this.
&
We sure got everyone's attention, didn't we?
Apparently a V3 has better primary balance than a inline triple. It uses the same 75-degree Vee angle balancing strategy as their V5 MotoGP bike apparently (bigger counterweights opposing the bank with less cylinders). But yeah I guess they are doing it just because it's neat! Something different than the competition.
Did Honda mention whether the idea is to allow long periods of supercharger operation, like would be used on a track, or just short bursts of extra power that would be enough for the street. That would change the design significantly. For short bursts of supercharging, the alternator could be much smaller and the supercharger would be powered by a battery, possibly with a large capacitor to spin it up. Otherwise, the alternator/generator would need to be much larger to continuously supply enough power to run the supercharger.
My preference, which would probably not be as popular, would be to have a higher compression engine for better all-around efficiency and use water (or water/methanol) injection during the intervals of boost.
I remember riding new CBX it was awesome
Significantly undersquare may provide enough resistance to detonation and help to achieve euro 6 compliance. Even so with a compression ratio, probably 12/1 +/- boost would be limited to 5 psi I believe. Although with other available technologies such as variable compression and/or high pressure directed injection to insure turbulence, boost could rise to a quite entertaining level. I know the breakneck speed of new bike development is in the rear view, but I am excited that Honda's magic lantern may shine bright once again.
Do remember yamaha created the 2wd motocross not with chains and bevels but hydraulic pipes driving the front end.didnt catch on but the hydraulic idea in itself had the showroom finish.other ideas where very brash. Regards Liverpool uk.excellent show full of knowledgeable brain food many thanks.
if they build it, they will come... super intriguing
❤ Always a fasinating discussion . Champion 🏆
I'm optimistic, but I remember being so let down by Suzuki not following through with the Recursion a decade or so ago. I acknowledge it wasn't electric, but I have been wishing for forced induction for so many years. Please bring it Honda.
I wonder what would happen if you used a piston as a charger.
My friend came up with a way of completely eliminating turbo lag on his 79 KZ1300 that he put a Mr Turbo kit on, nitrous.
It was set up to give just a little shot at WOT and boy howdy did that thing work, boost was instantaneous.
I can guarantee you that set up on 1979 tires and suspension with 1979 brakes is the most evil motorcycle you will ever ride in your life, nothing, not those old Kawasaki trip 2 strokes, any TZ750 or any open class 2 stroke dirt bikes wound put you in a hospital faster than that thing, it was Satan on wheels, a real life motorcycle version of the 1977 movie The Car, 100% demon possessed.
I rode an 85’ kx 500 a few times when I was 13 and weighed 135 pounds. I had to stand on a milk crate to get on it. It was a buddies older brother’s bike. It was scary AF but I survived. Waaaaay more torque than my 125 at the time but the 125 taught me about powerband hit.
I remember when BMW owned Husqvarna and presented a V-3 concept. It seems Pierer found a 3 cylinder MV Agusta instead.
Every technology has its time. World Rally Championship cars tried some things in the 90's like Audi spooling a turbo electrically to avoid lag. VW had a twin- engined Golf with motors connected by cables. Synchronisation was a problem.
Subaru used a ram jet to generate boost instantly if I got it right
On the subject of additive manufacturing being just a bunch of blobs with crappy welds. There is a huge range in processes available today and most of them are crappy to one degree or another. But at the high end, there are machines today that can build aircraft turbine blades that out perform the single crystal cast blades that made mass air travel possible. I never would have believed it as the single crystal turbine blade was the pinnacle of manufacturing technology I was studying Engineering.
Always interested in what Honda is doing.
Honda demonstrating its brilliance once again
I remember looking at electric supercharging for small engines for a college project over 40 years ago. At the time, batteries were not up to the task and, of course, very small efficient compressor turbines were not off-the-shelf items either. Relatively small, inexpensive efficient dc motors did not come about until decades later when e-scooter demand pushed the prices down.
Excellent, as always.
Speaking of Honda. Will you gentlemen ever talk about that XR650L that's behind Mark? I bought a 2024 a month ago and I would like your take on it.
Mark, the moustache makes you ageing.
From Hot Rod in Sept 2020 - "All F1 competitors have been using electrically augmented turbos and energy recuperation since 2014. Mercedes-AMG has been dominating F1 since the current rules went into effect in 2014. Mercedes builds its own F1 engines and e-turbos"
Honda reached the top of F1 engines since 2021 to present too. 🙂 Their first hybrid turbo F1 engine with an ultra-compact (rumoured) axial compressor in 2015 was not great though.
Back in 2003 I had the then new Kawasaki Z1000 and a pal had a current Yamaha R6. One day we swapped bikes and I didn't get my bike back until we got back home! The Z1000 was no torque monster but compared to the R6, it was according to him, so much easier to ride fast on the road than the R6.
I rode up pikes peak with my R50 6.8/1 compression ratio no problems . I also ran that bike on 50% diesel in summer .The first blowers were hair driers .
636 has become a cult bike for stunt riders. That's why you can't find one
Sometimes i used mim'd parts in certain gun building. I too, thought " could we run this part through a coil and give it polarity, align the domains so it wasn't like filing a rock?
Thanks for a fascinating look into your thoughts on this incredible new Honda concept. My thoughts are as follows. I don't think this new motor will find a home in any 'new' Honda bike. I think it will be gradually introduced to the existing line up of Honda bikes. I think the first recipient will be the Africa Twin and it's doppelganger the venerable NT1100. Honda has had a patent on this e-supercharger since 2019 so, with development completed, there shouldn't be much delay at all getting this new device in the showroom and out on the road. The industry needs something like this badly as sales worldwide are not exactly on fire. Honda would be wanting to stem the tide with an exciting thing such as this. Remember, most reviewers say that the main competitive disadvantage an Africa Twin has against the GS, Triumph or Ducati Multi is that it only has 100hp. This triple would fix that resoundingly in one fell swoop. Honda would definitely get my money - I'd love an Africa Triple! ;-)
I was so excited for this podcast to learn about the technical aspects of why they’re doing a V3 electric supercharge vehicle and 10 minutes of my time is just stories I love you guys but like I’m sure I’m not alone I want to hear the technical knowledge during this podcast
10 minutes of your life wasted listening to Mark and Kevin, what a busy person you must be!
Water Methanol injection under boost works great .
Methanol would be problematic... But water? I totally agree
@@OUrVileO No Problems at all .. I inject straight water into my Diesel truck in the summer but have to add Methanol in the winter
@@OUrVileOProblematic how? Water-meth injection isn't exactly unheard of.
Where are they getting the voltage from to run this turbo it takes a lot.
they're probably running a custom voltage regulator on the bikes alternator like a car uses, so all they have to do is feed the field coil more current to get more boost from the supercharger.
Great episode
or, to the point on using the starter for additional oomph, rather than batteries, a lithium ion super capacitor bank.. new tech with crazy high energy density, use it like rechargeable nitros in one of those video games 😆
great to hear I wasn't the only one thinking of this
AHAHAHAHAHAHA! "a lot of thinking happens as you slide up the road" 😂
"IF" there was a boosted race class, the closed course bike could use battery power for the supercharger, thus separating it from both mechanical and electrical drag on the engine. Would take 5 seconds for a fresh battery at pit stops. Not to mention re-gen braking providing both a bit of charge as well as taking a bit of loading off the brakes - if not the tire.
Has anyone experimented with some kind of bellows pulse generation in the airbox, timed to the intake cycle.?
Electric super chargers started being used in F1 racing and what it was used for is reducing turbo lag.
Trombone worker gets a tap on the shoulder,
You got a minute ?
This is great news.
Thank You !!
I think Kevin is missing something important. Japan has gotten very good at kinetic energy recovery to generate electricity. Such a generator hub on that bike would remove any parasitic losses from that supercharger. All the pluses of power adders without any minuses. There has to be a capacitor or battery anyway.
It's "Cycle World, Cycle World.... Hey welcome to Cycle World... Excellent...." Very interesting discussion guys.
It's been a while since I heard of a step change that holds so much promise. And now that they have tipped their hands the fruits will be sure to follow, from someone if not Honda.
I suppose it's possible to render a 120° crank-pin orientation even with the V block, no doubt a counter-rotating shaft will be used to reduce buzz.
System conversion to 48V shouldn't be a problem.
The potential weight penalty will come in from the turbine motor, turbine, electrical cabling, controller, coolant routing, bigger battery (lithium or lead-acid, who knows) and beefy alternator for supplying power for the turbine.
Weight reduction over simply giving us a bigger displacement engine with VVT, rather than all the complexity of electric powered induction?
Is the exercise a matter of pleasing the climate bureaucrats or providing a better overall motorcycle experience without ownership fatigue?
Could this be a 850 cc Motogp engine for the 2027 rule change Motogp season
Kevin, have you seen the new book "The Secret Horsepower Race, western front fighter engine development"?
Lots of original document stuff.
VW happily runs 11.7:1 comp ratio on their EA888 Gen3B turbo 2L. It uses direct injection and a modified miller cycle. Also had a valve lift system on intake
Imagine a bike with the ability to provide maximum boost instantly for overtaking at press of a button
I hear that Honda know a thing or too about variable valve lift. 🙂
Why a triple? To me, a twin makes more sense - up in the mountains, where punch and ground clearance is king, the twin is king. Twins can sound wonderful - ever heard a KTM 950 (75°) rev with its twin exhausts?
And my 1972 Yamaha CS5 had the same starter/generator as the new Gold Wing?
Perhaps their hinting at the next 850 motogp effort in the works!
Many cars with turbos use electrically adjustable waste gates that provide dead flat torque curves across the rev range. Increased drive ability.
Anybody remember the escort gt with electric blower in the intake duct from the 80s?
I remember riding brand new Yamaha seca turbo Just had to get it straight be you throttled up .
I would buy a V3 bike just for its rare engine configuration alone.
Add variable compression lol I think someone has sorted that😳
AIRBOX MOUSE
No intercooler needed if you don't over-compress the air ???
Where is all that wattage coming from. You'll need to cool the stator. HD offers a specialty oil for primary lubrication and stator frying. Joking aside you could run the blower with high voltage AC off the stator and the rest stays 12 volts with a standard 12 volt starting battery. No need to reinvent the wheel.
Honda has a great idea. I think of it every time I'm digging a mouse nest out of an airbox... why can't I have him running on a wheel in there making boost.
Call it "dial a boost".
Why not a V4 instead of a 3 to dampen the vibration ???
On the subject of knock, why not just add water injection? I've even heard of a water scavenger, so you wouldn't have to refill the reservoir..
I’d love to see you guys test and discuss the TTS Rotrex Supercharged Suzuki Hayabusa!! Hit up Richard Albans, owner of TTS in the UK, and I’m sure he’d be glad to have you guys!!
''Type up your torque curve'' or, get a Panigale V4 and just have all the power and torque all the time.)))
Many years ago I remember seeing an ad in a car magazine for an intake manifold with two electric motors running turbines for a Ford 289 engine. This is not a "new" idea. Let Yamaha use this to cram air into a fuel-injected liquid cooled RD 350 2-stroke.
Its probably an an ols NSR with RC 51 heads
02:47 Sixth place sir
😅😂😊 YT auto generated text called y'all "psycho world"!😊
It is psycho world podcast
@@the88lundbergyep
;)
All the Hondas I had back in the 60's had dead batteries . Just go electric , instant power . Taiwan has some good ones , but I wait for solid state batteries or the blade batteries . Motorbikes are the best place for wheel motors or Aptera . Does Honda have a trike I built a fun one with 305 engine .
Cuz they are Honda
SPORTSTER4LIFE 🍀
Needs a battery , some regenerative breaking, Might perform well on E-85 or hydrogen
In terms of nomenclature, a turban is something some people wear on their heads. Why not say turbine? It rhymes with carbine.
It NEEDS to be a new Hawk GT........
2014 Kawasaki H2 - 32.000 rpm electric turbocharger! Another first for them!
21:14 I might be dirty minded
Simple analogue / mechanical systems function well enough for my humble needs .A single cylinder Velocette with carburettor fuel air mixture control & magneto ignition, the joy is in the freedom 0oif the road not what millions of clever computer calculations and digital interpolations of divrse data from myrriad misbegotten sensors are interposed between the rider and the engine
what did you do ? something is different. you look like by buddies step dad did in 1993. i mean you got the look. Is that what you were going for ?
Men blossom like flowers, at a certain age. Near 50 years of age, a flower blooms on their upper lip.
most times its a haloween experiment, but its always wonderful to witness.
😊more options more fun
But please don't revive the v5
The flat plane Crank R-1 has a very nasty aggressive sound as does the Ford Coyotee V-6
Boost makes more torque because you can make more power with out extra RPM's My second Street bike was a 1976 RD-400-C I sure embarrassed a lot of Harley Sportsters with it. Fathers would not let me take their daughters on dates on a motorcycle, so I ordered a brand new 1979 Z-28 Camaro. When it had 14,000 miles on it I did cam headers.. Holley street Dominator intake 600 Holley Double pumper carb. The cam was the 327 350 HP grind.. Bigger sway bars.. and maybe a year later I added 110 HP Nitrous kit to it .
When machines build machines,I hope to trust humans.
You will have to have a heavier alternator and battery.
I wouldn't think by much.
It shouldn't draw too much power.
Battery yes but the alternator/generator can be a more "efficient" design while keeping the same packaging. It does requires a entire change of the electronic system in general. Theres areas to lose weight in other areas to compensate as well like the 6th gen goldwing starter generator unit they talk about as well.
ive heard it's using a separate battery... probably a lithium ion.
Typical motorcycles use a permanent magnet alternator. So any energy that isn't used to run the bike and charge the starting battery is wasted off as heat. Might as well put it to good use
Most motorcycle use an AC generator not an alternator.
"...power station on wheels...."
What kind of headphones is dude wearing
Greta will love it when she hears the word ELECTRIC🤣