My two theories are that A. Defenses of the bell were designed to counteract Grogar specifically, so he had to use others to get the bell. B. Grogar was just testing them (and is aware of their scheme).
Third possibility: three lesser villains really were just better suited to the task than Grogar himself. After all, the episode showcases how they need all their talents supplementing each other to retrieve the bell, and there are some things Grogar probably cannot do (fly, for instance, and that was vital for reaching the peak of the mountain).
@Natasel "Hired mercenaries" - That would have required going out in public, which I´m not sure he wants to do just yet. Also, do mercenaries even exist in Equestria? Also, what mercenaries would be as competent as these three villains? "PULLED the mountain down" - Sounds like a pretty daunting task to me. "built another bell" - No, I´m pretty sure that´s impossible. "leverage over him" - Interesting thought. The way I see it, it´s implied in the episode that the bell contains most of Grogar´s power. If the other three villains were able to operate it, they could have backstabbed him already. So clearly the are unable to use the bell against him. I´m not saying the mission WASN´T a setup, just that there could be other explanations.
I think his bell is kind of like Sauron's ring, and he can only have one. Pulled the mountain down seems at least possible, if not subtle. Mercenaries, I really doubt it. I think the most likely thing is he just teleported up the mountain and was going to take the bell, but decided to set up a learning experience for the three.
@Natasel You make some good points. Still, the bell could have been created by something even older and more powerful than Grogar or something like that. And I don´t think we can really know what Grogar´s power level is relative to the one Tirek had after having absorbed almost all the magic in Equestria. It´s all pretty speculative when we get to theorising about this show.
4:07 I was thinking the same thing. I think in the season finale, Cozy, Tirek, and Chrysalis will try to betray him, only for him to reveal that he was wise to their plan and turn the tables on them.
@Shootig Star only for Twilight to realize that not every villain wants reformation and if they cannot accept to live in Equestria without causing pain and suffering to those that live in it and/or taking to take over Equestria, then their only solution is death by the elements of harmony or eternal banishment/imprisonment.
A few small points. 1. The bell shown to them by Grogar is new and clean, while the one they retrieved is old and smashed, meaning he may not be able to see the location of the actual item and it's just an image from his memory. 2. He may have entrusted them with the mission simply because the barrier, while powerful and able to keep out most creatures was specifically made to keep HIM out. Perhaps it is attuned to him somehow so that his own magic has no effect on it. Much like how in an earlier episode, Shining Armor's shield was attuned to keep changelings out of Canterlot but allow normal ponies in, or how the remains of Chrysalis's throne was supposedly attuned to block specifically teleportation magic. 3. While he may not trust what they say, the ultimate downfall of most MLP villains is their arrogance. In his mind, why would these beings so much weaker than him, fearful of him, practically groveling on the floor in their "failure" try to do something so foolish? After all, if discovered, would he not destroy them? But those are just my own views on the current (hilarious and awesome) episode.
so why would he udnerstiamte these guys yet not udnerstimate the elements of harmony and the main six? even now, as he knows the elements were busted, he does not act. he knows that he cannot win yet.
@@taddad2641 That's easy enough. He doesn't underestimate the Mane Six because they have proven to be formidable foes so long as they are united. These three, on the other hand, he feels he has them firmly under his thumb. He thinks they fear him and can use that fear to exert absolute control over them. He has no idea (or refuses to acknowledge) that they actually don't fear him as much as he assumes.
@@nameynamd9212 Precisely. He wants them to work together, along with him to destroy the Mane Six. He still likely thinks that he's stronger than the three of them combined on his own.
@@Mordenheim He states such and lets Tirek expand his ability to drain magic by giving him some of his own as well as letting him increase if he wants to(which kind of makes the run-in to the creature weird as he should have been able to absorb it of magic)
Grogar surely must know of their planned betrayal considering he is able to see anything around the world with his Goat eye like Orb. Then again we still don't know for sure what the limits of his powers really are.
I'm pretty sure that Grogar was watching them with his Goat-Eye Crystal. It's also possible that Rusty Bucket was Grogar in disguise. And if I was going to hide a bell from a goat, I wouldn't put it on a mountain. Also I thought that Gusty the Great was a Pegasus
No, remember the story Twilight read in season 7 she said no pony ever tried to make it to cloudsdale on hoof If she was a pegasus she would not need to do that.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if he knew they plan to betray them. Remember when King Sombra was defeated? His eye orb thing allowed him to watch Sombra's defeat. Who's to say he wasn't doing this with the other three villains while they went to retrieve the bell?
Once again DRWolf those are some very interesting and possible theories and you make some valid points...but i have no doubt that Cozy Glow,Tirek and Chrysalis are going to figure out how to wield Grogar's bell and then use his own magic and or power against him or maybe Tirek will absorb Grogar's magic from his body, that's something i'd actually like to see. Or who knows, since many people believe that they plan on reforming the 3 villains by series end...Grogar may have said the his bell can't be destroyed and yet what if Cozy Glow,Tirek and Chrysalis actually do find a way to destroy it and then Grogar loses all his powers?...i for one think that too is a possibility.
@@brittasnow64 You clearly didn't read the comment carefully, because i didn't say anything about Tirek absorbing the magic from the bell i said he would absorb the magic *FROM GROGAR'S BODY.*
Regardless, it's a shame that this series is ending without a great Earth Pony villain, one who hates magic and feels treated like a 2nd or 3rd class citizen (blames it for all the terrible things that happened in Equestria) and wants to rid the world of it in a survival-of-the-fittest world, not like Cozy Glow who's motivation was never really told why she wanted to rule (my theory is that as a small child she was most likely told by her parents that Celestia is the greatest magic defense in Equestria but having seen her fail so many times, not to mention the numerous times she's probably been enslaved, Cozy saw Celestia as a failure and a fraud ... and Twi and the Mane 6 constantly "sucking up" to her made her think she could do better, or at least never feel helpless again.). It would have been a great break from "evil-magic-stealing-selfish" that we've seen numerous times. Even a team of skilled Earth Ponies, despite being considered evil, actually having pure relationships and thus giving the Mane 6 a test as to who's "friendship is purer / light-vs-dark." Perhaps even attempt to convince/brainwash Applejack into turning on her friends by trying to convince her that they treat her like dumb muscle and keep her in the background. (She's more the 2nd-in-command, often seen as Twi's right-hoof pony. XD) They could even try and steal the royal sister's magic and transferring into the sun and moon so they rise and set on their own (It'd free the sisters from their responsibilities and let them truly be free, only to be subjected to mortality and punishment afterwards by the ponies for their constant failures) Great concept by the show, but still would've loved to seen Earth Ponies revolting ... maybe in the IDW comics. :)
Cozy was similar enough that there is no need. Pegasus flight is similar to Earth pony strength and she didn’t need a big chip on her shoulder for a similar plan.
I see Grogar like Celestia. Instead of easily retrieving the bell himself, he is using it as a test to help his students become better. That being said, he is not doing if for it for their benefit but his own, to strengthen his forces for the battle to come. As for his awareness of the bell, he probably is well aware that they will do what they can to overthrow him when a chance arrives. He is letting them do as they please, knowing he can stop them whenever they try something or even betray them first once they are no longer needed for his plans. I also imagine he is using them to do such tasks to keep his exposure to a minimum so that nobody will be aware of him till it is time for his big plan to be put into motion.
Going along with Grogar's ideology on using friendship, here's what should've happened: He needed the villains to retrieve the bell and, after they retrieved it, he swapped it for a fake one when they weren't looking. This fake bell would contain a fraction of his power and break when the villains tried to absorb Grogar's power. He would give them a fake bell to prove that he is always three steps ahead of them. Yes, I made a reference to the Zach episode from gumball.
100% approval on this theory, and hope it's mostly the case! Even if it turns out that Gusty was the one to seal it in the cave, I can still see Grogar being able to get to the top and discover its whereabouts. He *is* a ram, after all. An animal capable of scaling rocky tundra.
I found it weird that Grogar could see the Bell being miles away on atop of the Mt. Everhoof and suddenly he couldn't feel it in his lair? It's very possible it was only the quest designed by Grogar, so his 3 henchmen could help to cooperate with each other. It seems to me he knows about the Bell, but for now it's too early to use it and gain his true power (considering the story is true).
I think the reason he needed the villains was because he cant leave his little HQ, so he has to rely on other. Sure, he could reach out with his magic and find it, but as we saw there was a barrier. If he spent centuries scanning for it, then he musnt be able to feel it out even if it does have his power within it. However, I'm sure he is aware that the bell is in his base now and his annoyance towards the end was just him realizing they have alternative goals but is pleased to let them think they have the advantage over him...however, one thing I didn't like from this ep is how Tirek has devolved into a muscle loving guy, but thankfully is still very smart.
i still think when he sent those 3 off he kept an eye on them with that ball the whole time so he already knows they have the bells and is likely playing the fool into letting them think they have fooled him in thinking they failed him.
i am imagining he is within the same ballpark as discord. enough that discord wouldn't be able to snap his fingers and turn his beams into custard. especially if theories that discord was created by grogar are true.
@@aliengameplay1942 Remember, Grogar created every Mythical Creature, that means Discord too. Grogar can undo him and erase him whenever he wants. But he doesn't do it for some reason or plan he has. I think Grogar hasn't revealed his true power yet.
@@jeremyrodriguez7399 He didn't create Tirek. He came from another land, and we have seen Discords home dimension. Do you really think Grogar would give one of his henchmen his own dimension. Plus we haven't seen Grogar out perform Discord yet. You got to remember that drWolfs theory is a theory and not explisitly stated in the show. If you have any counterarguments feel free to suggest them.
Grogar had to set up the mountain and its defenses as a way to test his team of villains... theres no way he's been watching these villains, all these years and doesn't expect them to betray him. And i mean if Tirek with just Chrysalis's magic could get through the barrier, then Grogar who literally states that he's more powerful then all three of them combined, then there's no reason why he himself couldn't of gotten through it.
question is why esnd them after his bell? my guess is that the bell's powers were seperated from it. gusty could have absorbed them or transfered them into something else. hell maybe Discord is a manfiestation of that magic.
@@taddad2641 if Grogar did plan everything out, then he likely sent them to get his "bell" just to test and see if they could learn to work together. And personally, i hope the Bell's magic, or really Grogar in general isn't what created Discord. But i also think the bell the three got from the mountain was a fake, because if was the real thing and Grogar isn't playing the three of them, then there's no reason why Grogar couldn't of gotten the bell himself or been able to sense it at the end of the episode. Really unless the mlp writers are just purposely writing Grogar to be an idiot, then there no way he doesn't expect his team of villains to try and betray him, and theres no way he didn't know the three had his bell hidden away.
@@Draconicus702 Though if they plan on backstabbing him, they'll need to think of another solution, because if Gusty didn't use the bell against Grogar, it's highly unlikely to be so easy to use
hmm... seen a bit far-fetched to me the spell coloures of Grogar and the shield are opposite Grogar's - black with yellow glow shield - yellow with only black when Tirek makes a hole
@@graveyardshift2100 While that's a very good point, is it at all possible that it could be like Luna's flank where it appears different even without the cutiemark?
@@graveyardshift2100 Well, in Twilight's Kingdom, when Luna gives up her magic to Twilight and loses her cutiemark, the dark spots are still a part of her, so that shows that it is possible to have different colors on the pony (also, Pip has different colors but I'm not sure if he's an earth pony or what).
@@shadowspector3611 and when Starlight swapped Luna's and Celestia's cutie marks the dark spots were put onto Celestia, showing that the animators can't make up their minds. And there's a big difference between a pony having different coat colors and having a random picture on them that isn't a cutie mark.
@@zap4th368 I'll take down Equestria's greatest villains the Black Order with the Supremity Gauntlet and all 7 Cosmos Stones and extract all of their magic and use it against them, and I'll conjure a portal to jungled beaches of Madagascar to be eaten by... the Foosa!
@@zap4th368 I'll use the Supremity Gauntlet and all 7 Cosmos Stones and extract all of their magic and use it against them, and I'll snap my fingers and wipe out all the villains in Equestria and they'll be nothing but rotting leafs and sawdust.
I think it was pretty obvious that he wanted them to work together on this Mission. Maybe gusty's magic was also yellow *shrug* He said he searched it for millennia and if he always had it in his possession why not just use it then with all of his power regained and take over Equestria himself? He searched for the location relying on his magic ball and he hasn't used it when talking to them. And even if it had his power it's still an inanimate object it could only glow to maybe signify it was there/it had power left.
Now things falling into place, Grogar is a goat and goats can go into high places like mountains and can withstand low temperatures and all the evidence is all there.
Does anyone else think that Gusty the Great used the bell to create the barrier? I mean it only makes sense that Gusty would use the immense power of the bell to keep it safe. Kinda like Thanos with infinity stones.
I think it may be an all of the above type of option. He probably sent them to retrieve it because he knows that Gusty probably placed counter measures specified for him alone. His big outburst later was less about them failing and probably more because he knows they have it but he can't sense it, which means Gusty tampered with it somehow. He knows they're plotting but as long as it gets them to work together it's a mild inconvenience in the long run.
I think grogar sent them after that knowing that the bell was as of yet, useless. From the looks of the bell it is worn and damaged. Perhaps gusty the great stole the power from the bell and hide it elsewehre. perhaps during all that time he had gone to retrieve it, realized it had its power stolen, and used this plan as a means to get them to work together. because he knew that while it was veyr possible they would betray him, the bell would not have the power to harm him. At that point i imagine they would be cowed into obedience, out smarted the entire time and knowing what would happen if they crossed him once again.
That’s what I thought but then again sounds like a too complex plan for a villain in MLP :b hopefully it is like you say,but I won’t have big expectations for it
I still think there’s some other factor at play that we aren’t aware of yet, I’m still wondering if it was really Grogar that brought Sombra back... And then there are those yellow eyes we saw in castle mania... Stygian was still in limbo at the time, then who or what was that? And now that I think about it, didn’t Stygian say that the darkness spoke to him? Offered it’s power as a hand in “friendship” when he was emotionally vulnerable, kind of like how Luna was emotionally vulnerable when she became nightmare moon...
It's not too big of a twist, so it shouldn't be that hard(since quite a few people have waited for Grogar, it'd be wrong to keep saying how powerful he is and not show it, especially to divide and defeat the Mane 6)
Jay Sherard they definitely aren’t clever, at all! When I said I wanted the writers to make ballsy moves I meant moves with intelligence, not foolish moves.
I am SO happy i'm not the only one who's considering this idea - and I stand by the belief he knows everything his hench-villains are planning, and their inevitable betrayal WILL backfire on them.
I don't think it was a setup. I think Gusty the Great used bell's power to setup a force field that Gorgar could not break thru with his own magic, but another creature could. but I think he knows they got the bell, because I'd be watching them The whole time if I was Gorgar.
But if Gusty could use the bell, why bother only sealing it away and not simply banish Grogar(without the bell, Grogar simply doesn't stand up to the level of the Pony of Shadows, and even he couldn't break out of Limbo)?
She Might not be able use the bell directly. But more as a battery by enchanting the stones in the front of the cave to use the bell as a power source.
My thoughts on Chrysalis' log fixation : in one of the comics, it's explained that the Changelings came out of a swamp tree overcome with dark magic... Now, yes, comic's canonicity is secondary to the show's, and it was disproved that the Changelings came from that since we see Chrysalis hatching the eggs... But we still don't know from where Chrysy HERSELF came from ! Either she's going mad bananas talking to rocks even though she now has PEOPLE to interact with; or she IS trying to create a new hive/servants/slaves to conquer her old hive back, although hasn't figured out quite yet what the recipe for Changelings is... I mean, in ALL the Changeling interactions we have seen EVER, I haven't noticed ANY affinity for trees or nature ! But since she's been on the run, ALL of Chrysy's actions have involved wood...
Some good thoughts on the episode. Definitely agree this was at least a setup in part, and that there's no way he doesn't know the bell is in his own lair and all that. But I don't think he set up the protections on the mountain. Rather, I think the reason he didn't claim it himself was two-fold. A) Convenient team building exercise for his quarreling minions B) Keeps himself hidden in the process Think about it, most have forgotten about Grogar by this point. But those who do remember are sure to be powerful opposition for him. If HE goes out to claim his bell, Equestria goes to Defcon 1 as soon as someone reports powerful Goat monster sighted. But if three other villains do it, Equestria goes to maybe Defcon 2-3 if they're discovered. Regardless, Grogar remains hidden and continues his plotting without immediately giving away his return until the time comes.
If he cared so much about his Bell, why would he rely on them to get it for him and not go with them to make sure they wouldn’t, well hide it like they did
Here’s my theory. What if Grogar planned for their potential betrayal. Like... Sombra’s betrayal and attack on Equestria pretty much worked in Grogar’s favor. Sure one of the more powerful villains is now out of the picture for good, but it did result in Equestria’s best weapon being taken out of the equation. What if Grogar planned for Sombra to go at it alone and used his defeat as a way to get the other three to fall in line.
Though the tree is restored once more, and at a more powerful form at that, so not really(the tree can make a projection of itself fully capable of magic, so it could defend itself)
Wow that makes sense I mean he wouldn't let these goons to retrieve his bell in the likes of these creeps. I mean he's one step ahead of them and sooner than later he'll dispose his United Alliance of EVIL.
Grogar's magic is a very saturated yellow and is lined with black, in fact it's mostly black. Gusty's magic is a pale yellow, and so is the magical forcefield, so I'm fairly sure it was Gusty's magic on Mt. Everhoof.
I loved this episode. It was funny and very enjoyable. I hope there's more to grogar than just his bell because he's a very interesting and powerful villain!!
That is a very compelling theory, and I do like it. Though, I think there will be a flaw in the plan, one Grogar and the others may not see right away...the actual Magic of Friendship, the three started feeling it there after getting the bell, but quickly fended it off. Who is to say when they try to betray him, perhaps in the climax thinking him not ready...the Magic once more takes hold, only now reinforced by Twilight Sparkle and her friends...it would almost be a fitting end to the series, three major villains redeemed at once, and the most powerful evil force Equestria has known defeated.
Of course Grogar used his Bell as a set-up to get them to work together, so they'd be able to work together for his plan. He also knows where they hid it, as it is reacting to his presence at the end. He just wants to see what they'll do. They're still of no threat whatsoever to him, even with the Bell. Gusty did genuinely steal and seal away the Bell, but Grogar saw an opportunity to unite his subordinates by sending them on a difficult fetch quest.
I think Grogar knew they brought the bell. And he knew that they teamed up to get it. And as soon they use the bell against him. Then he controlled the bell, reveal their friendship teamwork, and destroy them. Cause he knew he need them for this task, to bring the bell and show their flaws.
Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou Dr. Wolf Grogar is the most dangerous villian after all with his magic being stronger than theres and all Hes even older than tirek. I really do believe grogar is keeping an extra goat crystal eye on them
I think you might be right. To a point anyway. Maybe Gusty has a similar color scheme. I mean Twilight and the gang couldn’t sense the elements of harmony. Will see how this goes. I do believe they’re betrayal will come back to bite them. My idea is that Gusty did setup those protections for the bell. However Grogar needs the villains to work together for his scheme to work. So he sends them to retrieve it knowing that they will try to betray him. Grogar doesn’t need to be able to sense the bell to know where it is. The orb allows him to know its location regardless. Grogar is simply playing with them
Starswirl was able to sense when the Tree of Harmony was destroyed, so the Bewitching Bell leaving a massively fortified barrier should bring a noticable difference to the magic Grogar should be able to sense
Just to add more grogar has a magic orb that lets him see anything. Perhaps he was watching the 3 the whole time and he is just riding with their schemes
A theory I have heard is that discord is the bell. This one actually makes sense to me, the bell after years created a mind of its own and had a destructive instinct. Grougard didn't notice the bell because it was a forgery
I think it is a set up I mean he's one step ahead of them I mean this whole quest, teamwork, and betrayal was part of his plan. He already knew of his bell and their traitory and sooner than later he'll dispose of them.
Here's my thoughts on this. Because I noticed somethings you may have missed doc. This could be a set up but not the way you expect. In the episode gogar stated he just Found the bell after tracking down for many years. Also he noticed the villains were not getting along very well. So he chose to Test them by getting his bell for him. That's probably why they went instead of him so he can see if they are willing to work together. As we saw it (almost) payed off. As for the bell. My guess is gogar doesn't know his bell has been found (yet) All he has to do is look in that black eye of his and find the bell. Then he will know what really happened. It's only a matter of time.
Really good question again. But with no answer. We definitely miss something, the episode definitely has deepper meaning. As I know the writers, they will definitely do the most unexpected thing of all. This means we can't know for sure. Some things make sense that this was all a setup. So it is possible. But even tho, I am not sure. Maybe this wasn't Grogar's plan. If he really couldn't find his bell, his powerful artefact, for thousands of years, maybe Gusty's spell is too powerful even for him. We've seen protection in Equestria before and we know it can be very strong. Maybe the spell was mend to keep him away. And Gogar was really mad at the end so maybe he doesn't know about the bell the others brought. And does he know about the betrayel? I don't know. But if he doesn't, he better continue not to believe to the others. Hope we'll find out soon.
This does makes sense. Also the reason Grogar wouldn't just want his bell at all times anyway was that (at least in G1) it wasn't just his source of power. It's his weakness. If Tambelon appears in this series, there's a bigger bell inside Tambelon that if rung, would banish the bell and anyone holding/wearing it to the Realm of Darnkess.
I think Grogar knows that they're lying to him and that they have his bell. It would also be a good twist if it turned out he doesn't need his bell anymore and is only letting them think they have something over him so they'll learn to work together.
I have my own theory: What if at some point they try to use the bell against him, he over powers them, and then he hurts Chrysalis. Tirek and Cozy Glow suddenly run to her and they realize they actually care for her as they are true friends. Then as Grogar is picking up his bell, gloating (I kinda imagine this was all during a battle against the main 6 possible so that way Grogar had been distracted while they try to use the bell) and then he and the Main 6 get a surprise as Chrysalis starts to glow ... and suddenly undergo the metamorphosis that Thorax and the others went under and she becomes all sparkly and such. Then the three realize what just happened and while Grogar is still recovering from his shock, the main 6 (who had been knocked aside) suddenly leap up and manage to get to the bell and right as they think they're about to lose, the 3 villains suddenly lunge and help secure the bell and subdue Grogar. They now have the bell and they look to one another and hand it over to Twilight and the others (maybe? That or they remain Villains but they're a villainous trio that has each other's backs)
You know I was thinking what if the real grogar didn't look like that... what if he had ram looking horns rather than goat looking ones and he had red glowing eyes similar to the gen 1 grogar and his true appearance was changed and lost to time and he never had yellow eyes with red pupil's and maybe had pinkish magic also similar to gen 1
I think you're definitely on to something. Given what we've seen of Grogar so far, it would certainly make sense if he foresaw all of this from the beginning. In his mind, it doesn't matter if they are planning to betray him because he knows that even with all their power combined, they're still no match for him. It's also possible that his bell only works for him.
I feel like in the end the evil trio will ditch grogar and fight against him, but grogar is too strong for them, then the evil trio need help from the main 6. Then they get reformed.
That's a very interesting theory. You've made me rewatch these scenes and I noticed something else. The bell glowed when it was in the cave near Grogar, but not on Mount Everhoof. The bell reacted to Grogars present. Why didn't Grogar? Or could he just see and hear the bell and not feel the present of his bell? Grogar became much more interesting for me now.
Grogar's Bell could be real and a setup at the same time. If we assume Grogar could get the bell himself, there is still a good reason to send his minions. Of course he would be watching them in his crystal ball. There are 3 possible scenarios. -They retrieve the bell and deliver it to Grogar: They have learned to work as a team and Grogar has the bell without risking exposing himself. -They retrieve the bell but hide it: They have learned to work as a team, Grogar knows for sure they will try to betray him and he knows where the bell is hidden, so he can get it with less effort. -They fail to retrieve the bell: Grogar knows what exactly the obstacles are and has an easier time retrieving his bell, which is also what Tirek's original plan was.
Or what if he is trying to create his own Dark-friendship magic to counterattack the Friendship magic of Twilight? remember he is going for the main defenses of Equestria And it going in the same way as Tirek in G1 have the Dark-rainbow but never used in G4
I did find it a little weird that they hid it closer. but, think about it. if those 3 weren't able to retrieve it, he already knows where it is. why would he use his orb to try to find it?
Yes!!! I think Grogar knows everything because of his orb(the same way he saw Sombra defeated) and this was just an evil version of a "friendship test" and he will roast them all later.
I think the bell isn't the endgame. It's just one bit of a grander plan that he's forging that goes beyond the three other villains. As for them, I would like to think that he's just luring them into a false sense of certainty. Do you recall at the premiere when he was summarizing his reign of the earliest Equestria? How he created the foulest of creatures and allowed them to run wild to do as they pleased? I think that Grogar is doing just that; letting his "monsters", in this instance his "allies", run wild and take what they please in order to benefit a huger part of his plan. I don't doubt that he knows they are on the verge of betraying him, he's just biding his time and letting them set everything up for him so when he betrays them, they won't see it coming.
After I watched, I am expecting him to be aware of their plan to back stab him. So when they go to try, he'll be ready to back stab the back stabbers in an awesome scene. Plus if it was Gusty's magic, then there'd have to be Starlight and Twilight levels of magic or stronger to have it last this long, since even Celestia and Luna's had a limit for containment. Granted that was a living creature, aka Sombra, but it was still a seal nonetheless. I'm so wanting to see Cozy get flung or something again. That just feels so refreshing to see the evil little filly get swatted for some reason (Episode 1 scene with Tirek as example and her with that snowball in this episode). Hoping he shows he's not so dumb as to let his guard down with them. Maybe Tirek could start suspecting to himself that Grogar knows of their plan (all seeing eyeball and what not) but doesn't tell the other two so has his own plan to back stab Grogar when Grogar goes to back stab them when they try to back stab Grogar the first time. Oh! Maybe there can be a four level back stabbing! Trio goes to back stab Grogar, Grogar counters with his own back back, Tirek goes to back stab Grogar alone and Grogar counters that with his own back stab. Wow that'd be some advanced planning, hehe ^_^.
My two theories are that A. Defenses of the bell were designed to counteract Grogar specifically, so he had to use others to get the bell. B. Grogar was just testing them (and is aware of their scheme).
Third possibility: three lesser villains really were just better suited to the task than Grogar himself. After all, the episode showcases how they need all their talents supplementing each other to retrieve the bell, and there are some things Grogar probably cannot do (fly, for instance, and that was vital for reaching the peak of the mountain).
@Natasel "Hired mercenaries" - That would have required going out in public, which I´m not sure he wants to do just yet. Also, do mercenaries even exist in Equestria? Also, what mercenaries would be as competent as these three villains?
"PULLED the mountain down" - Sounds like a pretty daunting task to me.
"built another bell" - No, I´m pretty sure that´s impossible.
"leverage over him" - Interesting thought. The way I see it, it´s implied in the episode that the bell contains most of Grogar´s power. If the other three villains were able to operate it, they could have backstabbed him already. So clearly the are unable to use the bell against him.
I´m not saying the mission WASN´T a setup, just that there could be other explanations.
I think his bell is kind of like Sauron's ring, and he can only have one. Pulled the mountain down seems at least possible, if not subtle. Mercenaries, I really doubt it. I think the most likely thing is he just teleported up the mountain and was going to take the bell, but decided to set up a learning experience for the three.
@Natasel You make some good points. Still, the bell could have been created by something even older and more powerful than Grogar or something like that. And I don´t think we can really know what Grogar´s power level is relative to the one Tirek had after having absorbed almost all the magic in Equestria. It´s all pretty speculative when we get to theorising about this show.
@Natasel Especially if they don't have a direct plan to plan against and instead have to wait to make their move at the best moment
4:07 I was thinking the same thing. I think in the season finale, Cozy, Tirek, and Chrysalis will try to betray him, only for him to reveal that he was wise to their plan and turn the tables on them.
That kinda reminds of bleach with Aizen and gin.
@Shootig Star only for Twilight to realize that not every villain wants reformation and if they cannot accept to live in Equestria without causing pain and suffering to those that live in it and/or taking to take over Equestria, then their only solution is death by the elements of harmony or eternal banishment/imprisonment.
I wished that was the case
A few small points.
1. The bell shown to them by Grogar is new and clean, while the one they retrieved is old and smashed, meaning he may not be able to see the location of the actual item and it's just an image from his memory.
2. He may have entrusted them with the mission simply because the barrier, while powerful and able to keep out most creatures was specifically made to keep HIM out. Perhaps it is attuned to him somehow so that his own magic has no effect on it. Much like how in an earlier episode, Shining Armor's shield was attuned to keep changelings out of Canterlot but allow normal ponies in, or how the remains of Chrysalis's throne was supposedly attuned to block specifically teleportation magic.
3. While he may not trust what they say, the ultimate downfall of most MLP villains is their arrogance. In his mind, why would these beings so much weaker than him, fearful of him, practically groveling on the floor in their "failure" try to do something so foolish? After all, if discovered, would he not destroy them?
But those are just my own views on the current (hilarious and awesome) episode.
so why would he udnerstiamte these guys yet not udnerstimate the elements of harmony and the main six? even now, as he knows the elements were busted, he does not act. he knows that he cannot win yet.
@@taddad2641 That's easy enough. He doesn't underestimate the Mane Six because they have proven to be formidable foes so long as they are united. These three, on the other hand, he feels he has them firmly under his thumb. He thinks they fear him and can use that fear to exert absolute control over them. He has no idea (or refuses to acknowledge) that they actually don't fear him as much as he assumes.
@@Mordenheim But he's still aware of the power of working together, even if they aren't initially more powerful
@@nameynamd9212 Precisely. He wants them to work together, along with him to destroy the Mane Six. He still likely thinks that he's stronger than the three of them combined on his own.
@@Mordenheim He states such and lets Tirek expand his ability to drain magic by giving him some of his own as well as letting him increase if he wants to(which kind of makes the run-in to the creature weird as he should have been able to absorb it of magic)
Grogar surely must know of their planned betrayal considering he is able to see anything around the world with his Goat eye like Orb. Then again we still don't know for sure what the limits of his powers really are.
this aged well
@@PullaWheellllll I know right! XD LOL
I think if Grogar really doesn’t know about what’s going on, then that makes him kinda weak, especially for the ~last and ultimate villain~
Watching this after the finale. Discord legitimately did not think it was possible for the villains to retrieve the bell
I'm pretty sure that Grogar was watching them with his Goat-Eye Crystal. It's also possible that Rusty Bucket was Grogar in disguise. And if I was going to hide a bell from a goat, I wouldn't put it on a mountain. Also I thought that Gusty the Great was a Pegasus
No, remember the story Twilight read in season 7 she said no pony ever tried to make it to cloudsdale on hoof
If she was a pegasus she would not need to do that.
crovax 13 And I thought Grogar was a ram.
@@pizzamlpop3452 goats and sheep are well known for climbing mountains
PizzaMLPop he is
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if he knew they plan to betray them. Remember when King Sombra was defeated? His eye orb thing allowed him to watch Sombra's defeat. Who's to say he wasn't doing this with the other three villains while they went to retrieve the bell?
Dr. Wolf: Grogar has yellow magic. We've never seen that before.
Celestia: *Am I a joke to you?*
Once again DRWolf those are some very interesting and possible theories and you make some valid points...but i have no doubt that Cozy Glow,Tirek and Chrysalis are going to figure out how to wield Grogar's bell and then use his own magic and or power against him or maybe Tirek will absorb Grogar's magic from his body, that's something i'd actually like to see.
Or who knows, since many people believe that they plan on reforming the 3 villains by series end...Grogar may have said the his bell can't be destroyed and yet what if Cozy Glow,Tirek and Chrysalis actually do find a way to destroy it and then Grogar loses all his powers?...i for one think that too is a possibility.
The Commenter Brony tirek wouldn’t be able to absorb the magic from the bell as he says that he can only absorb magic from living beings
@@brittasnow64 You clearly didn't read the comment carefully, because i didn't say anything about Tirek absorbing the magic from the bell i said he would absorb the magic *FROM GROGAR'S BODY.*
Regardless, it's a shame that this series is ending without a great Earth Pony villain, one who hates magic and feels treated like a 2nd or 3rd class citizen (blames it for all the terrible things that happened in Equestria) and wants to rid the world of it in a survival-of-the-fittest world, not like Cozy Glow who's motivation was never really told why she wanted to rule (my theory is that as a small child she was most likely told by her parents that Celestia is the greatest magic defense in Equestria but having seen her fail so many times, not to mention the numerous times she's probably been enslaved, Cozy saw Celestia as a failure and a fraud ... and Twi and the Mane 6 constantly "sucking up" to her made her think she could do better, or at least never feel helpless again.). It would have been a great break from "evil-magic-stealing-selfish" that we've seen numerous times. Even a team of skilled Earth Ponies, despite being considered evil, actually having pure relationships and thus giving the Mane 6 a test as to who's "friendship is purer / light-vs-dark." Perhaps even attempt to convince/brainwash Applejack into turning on her friends by trying to convince her that they treat her like dumb muscle and keep her in the background. (She's more the 2nd-in-command, often seen as Twi's right-hoof pony. XD) They could even try and steal the royal sister's magic and transferring into the sun and moon so they rise and set on their own (It'd free the sisters from their responsibilities and let them truly be free, only to be subjected to mortality and punishment afterwards by the ponies for their constant failures)
Great concept by the show, but still would've loved to seen Earth Ponies revolting ... maybe in the IDW comics. :)
Gymnast Dahal
In his current state he can’t, Gorgar needs to be weakened and he is going to need to be a lot more powerful than he is now even then.
Cozy was similar enough that there is no need. Pegasus flight is similar to Earth pony strength and she didn’t need a big chip on her shoulder for a similar plan.
I like the idea. We'll see if the show writers are that clever/ambitious. Which they may well be this time, since it's the final season.
They should be
I see Grogar like Celestia. Instead of easily retrieving the bell himself, he is using it as a test to help his students become better. That being said, he is not doing if for it for their benefit but his own, to strengthen his forces for the battle to come. As for his awareness of the bell, he probably is well aware that they will do what they can to overthrow him when a chance arrives. He is letting them do as they please, knowing he can stop them whenever they try something or even betray them first once they are no longer needed for his plans.
I also imagine he is using them to do such tasks to keep his exposure to a minimum so that nobody will be aware of him till it is time for his big plan to be put into motion.
Well he knew that they would betray and is already prepared
For there backstabbing
Going along with Grogar's ideology on using friendship, here's what should've happened: He needed the villains to retrieve the bell and, after they retrieved it, he swapped it for a fake one when they weren't looking. This fake bell would contain a fraction of his power and break when the villains tried to absorb Grogar's power. He would give them a fake bell to prove that he is always three steps ahead of them. Yes, I made a reference to the Zach episode from gumball.
I feel like he has to know what they did. I wouldn't believe that he wasn't watching them from his orb thing.
Especially when he did so for Sombra
"Was Grogar's Bell a setup?"
That's what I was saying last video.
100% approval on this theory, and hope it's mostly the case!
Even if it turns out that Gusty was the one to seal it in the cave, I can still see Grogar being able to get to the top and discover its whereabouts. He *is* a ram, after all. An animal capable of scaling rocky tundra.
There is also his basis of the bicorn, so unholy power shouldn't be too far out of his reach
I found it weird that Grogar could see the Bell being miles away on atop of the Mt. Everhoof and suddenly he couldn't feel it in his lair? It's very possible it was only the quest designed by Grogar, so his 3 henchmen could help to cooperate with each other. It seems to me he knows about the Bell, but for now it's too early to use it and gain his true power (considering the story is true).
DAAMMNN YOU WERE RIGHT (kinda)
I think the reason he needed the villains was because he cant leave his little HQ, so he has to rely on other. Sure, he could reach out with his magic and find it, but as we saw there was a barrier. If he spent centuries scanning for it, then he musnt be able to feel it out even if it does have his power within it. However, I'm sure he is aware that the bell is in his base now and his annoyance towards the end was just him realizing they have alternative goals but is pleased to let them think they have the advantage over him...however, one thing I didn't like from this ep is how Tirek has devolved into a muscle loving guy, but thankfully is still very smart.
i still think when he sent those 3 off he kept an eye on them with that ball the whole time so he already knows they have the bells and is likely playing the fool into letting them think they have fooled him in thinking they failed him.
Grogar is actally still not confirmed to be more powerfull than Discord.
i am imagining he is within the same ballpark as discord. enough that discord wouldn't be able to snap his fingers and turn his beams into custard. especially if theories that discord was created by grogar are true.
Grogar Is more powerful than discord, discord ain't not even close.
I don't know, Discord seems more powerful than Grogar to me Just because his magic is able to bend reality and do whatever he wants.
@@aliengameplay1942 Remember, Grogar created every Mythical Creature, that means Discord too. Grogar can undo him and erase him whenever he wants. But he doesn't do it for some reason or plan he has. I think Grogar hasn't revealed his true power yet.
@@jeremyrodriguez7399 He didn't create Tirek. He came from another land, and we have seen Discords home dimension. Do you really think Grogar would give one of his henchmen his own dimension. Plus we haven't seen Grogar out perform Discord yet. You got to remember that drWolfs theory is a theory and not explisitly stated in the show. If you have any counterarguments feel free to suggest them.
Grogar had to set up the mountain and its defenses as a way to test his team of villains... theres no way he's been watching these villains, all these years and doesn't expect them to betray him.
And i mean if Tirek with just Chrysalis's magic could get through the barrier, then Grogar who literally states that he's more powerful then all three of them combined, then there's no reason why he himself couldn't of gotten through it.
question is why esnd them after his bell?
my guess is that the bell's powers were seperated from it. gusty could have absorbed them or transfered them into something else.
hell maybe Discord is a manfiestation of that magic.
@@taddad2641 if Grogar did plan everything out, then he likely sent them to get his "bell" just to test and see if they could learn to work together.
And personally, i hope the Bell's magic, or really Grogar in general isn't what created Discord.
But i also think the bell the three got from the mountain was a fake, because if was the real thing and Grogar isn't playing the three of them, then there's no reason why Grogar couldn't of gotten the bell himself or been able to sense it at the end of the episode.
Really unless the mlp writers are just purposely writing Grogar to be an idiot, then there no way he doesn't expect his team of villains to try and betray him, and theres no way he didn't know the three had his bell hidden away.
@@Draconicus702 Though if they plan on backstabbing him, they'll need to think of another solution, because if Gusty didn't use the bell against Grogar, it's highly unlikely to be so easy to use
hmm... seen a bit far-fetched to me
the spell coloures of Grogar and the shield are opposite
Grogar's - black with yellow glow
shield - yellow with only black when Tirek makes a hole
I think the sheld is gustys Magic
no you see black when they interact with the abarrior too.
@@taddad2641 the black i think is from tirek's magic
@@370H-SSV I Think that too
New theory: Gusty the Great is a Kirin.
Evidence: her oddly shaped horn in Grogar's story.
She also has a cutie mark in Grogar's story, but kirin don't have them
@@graveyardshift2100 While that's a very good point, is it at all possible that it could be like Luna's flank where it appears different even without the cutiemark?
@@shadowspector3611 I think the animators just can't make up their mind if Luna's is just the moon or if it includes the dark spots around it too.
@@graveyardshift2100 Well, in Twilight's Kingdom, when Luna gives up her magic to Twilight and loses her cutiemark, the dark spots are still a part of her, so that shows that it is possible to have different colors on the pony (also, Pip has different colors but I'm not sure if he's an earth pony or what).
@@shadowspector3611 and when Starlight swapped Luna's and Celestia's cutie marks the dark spots were put onto Celestia, showing that the animators can't make up their minds. And there's a big difference between a pony having different coat colors and having a random picture on them that isn't a cutie mark.
I think Gusty did set the defenses, but Grogar is wise to the betrayal and location of his bell.
Let's see...
Grogar/ Thanos
Cozy Glow/ Ebony Maw
Queen Chrysalis/ Proxima Midnight
King Sombra/ Corvus Glaive
Lord Tirek/ Cull Obsidian
I would say sombra is ebony maw since he dies first
@@zap4th368 I'll take down Equestria's greatest villains the Black Order with the Supremity Gauntlet and all 7 Cosmos Stones and extract all of their magic and use it against them, and I'll conjure a portal to jungled beaches of Madagascar to be eaten by... the Foosa!
Ladies Man 217 Sun-Luc-Dong I compare grogar with moro
@@zap4th368 I'll use the Supremity Gauntlet and all 7 Cosmos Stones and extract all of their magic and use it against them, and I'll snap my fingers and wipe out all the villains in Equestria and they'll be nothing but rotting leafs and sawdust.
I think it was pretty obvious that he wanted them to work together on this Mission.
Maybe gusty's magic was also yellow *shrug*
He said he searched it for millennia and if he always had it in his possession why not just use it then with all of his power regained and take over Equestria himself?
He searched for the location relying on his magic ball and he hasn't used it when talking to them.
And even if it had his power it's still an inanimate object it could only glow to maybe signify it was there/it had power left.
Now things falling into place, Grogar is a goat and goats can go into high places like mountains and can withstand low temperatures and all the evidence is all there.
Does anyone else think that Gusty the Great used the bell to create the barrier? I mean it only makes sense that Gusty would use the immense power of the bell to keep it safe. Kinda like Thanos with infinity stones.
I think it may be an all of the above type of option. He probably sent them to retrieve it because he knows that Gusty probably placed counter measures specified for him alone. His big outburst later was less about them failing and probably more because he knows they have it but he can't sense it, which means Gusty tampered with it somehow.
He knows they're plotting but as long as it gets them to work together it's a mild inconvenience in the long run.
Maybe the bell is fake and he's had the real bell the whole time.
sivara 750 No. Grogar mentioned in the premiere that Gusty stole his bell.
I think grogar sent them after that knowing that the bell was as of yet, useless. From the looks of the bell it is worn and damaged. Perhaps gusty the great stole the power from the bell and hide it elsewehre.
perhaps during all that time he had gone to retrieve it, realized it had its power stolen, and used this plan as a means to get them to work together. because he knew that while it was veyr possible they would betray him, the bell would not have the power to harm him.
At that point i imagine they would be cowed into obedience, out smarted the entire time and knowing what would happen if they crossed him once again.
This actually makes so much sense.
That’s what I thought but then again sounds like a too complex plan for a villain in MLP :b hopefully it is like you say,but I won’t have big expectations for it
There should be a word for a double double cross.
I still think there’s some other factor at play that we aren’t aware of yet, I’m still wondering if it was really Grogar that brought Sombra back...
And then there are those yellow eyes we saw in castle mania... Stygian was still in limbo at the time, then who or what was that? And now that I think about it, didn’t Stygian say that the darkness spoke to him? Offered it’s power as a hand in “friendship” when he was emotionally vulnerable, kind of like how Luna was emotionally vulnerable when she became nightmare moon...
I don’t know if the crew is clever enough to pull off a twist like that but I’ll be surprised if they do.
It's not too big of a twist, so it shouldn't be that hard(since quite a few people have waited for Grogar, it'd be wrong to keep saying how powerful he is and not show it, especially to divide and defeat the Mane 6)
Jay Sherard they definitely aren’t clever, at all! When I said I wanted the writers to make ballsy moves I meant moves with intelligence, not foolish moves.
Lol lol “I’d be wrong to keep saying how powerful he is and not show it”.
Well that’s exactly what these incompetent people did.
DrWolf: Fandom, are you pondering what I'm pondering?
It’s possible this could be a kind of Toffee move by using Ludo, but Grogar has an even deeper gameplan. Intriguing
I am SO happy i'm not the only one who's considering this idea - and I stand by the belief he knows everything his hench-villains are planning, and their inevitable betrayal WILL backfire on them.
I don't think it was a setup.
I think Gusty the Great used bell's power to setup a force field that Gorgar could not break thru with his own magic, but another creature could.
but I think he knows they got the bell, because I'd be watching them The whole time if I was Gorgar.
But if Gusty could use the bell, why bother only sealing it away and not simply banish Grogar(without the bell, Grogar simply doesn't stand up to the level of the Pony of Shadows, and even he couldn't break out of Limbo)?
She Might not be able use the bell directly.
But more as a battery by enchanting the stones in the front of the cave to use the bell as a power source.
I'll bet he knows and is just playing along how they would expect him to.
Plottwist: Grogar betrays them :3
My thoughts on Chrysalis' log fixation : in one of the comics, it's explained that the Changelings came out of a swamp tree overcome with dark magic...
Now, yes, comic's canonicity is secondary to the show's, and it was disproved that the Changelings came from that since we see Chrysalis hatching the eggs... But we still don't know from where Chrysy HERSELF came from ! Either she's going mad bananas talking to rocks even though she now has PEOPLE to interact with; or she IS trying to create a new hive/servants/slaves to conquer her old hive back, although hasn't figured out quite yet what the recipe for Changelings is...
I mean, in ALL the Changeling interactions we have seen EVER, I haven't noticed ANY affinity for trees or nature ! But since she's been on the run, ALL of Chrysy's actions have involved wood...
Some good thoughts on the episode. Definitely agree this was at least a setup in part, and that there's no way he doesn't know the bell is in his own lair and all that. But I don't think he set up the protections on the mountain. Rather, I think the reason he didn't claim it himself was two-fold.
A) Convenient team building exercise for his quarreling minions
B) Keeps himself hidden in the process
Think about it, most have forgotten about Grogar by this point. But those who do remember are sure to be powerful opposition for him. If HE goes out to claim his bell, Equestria goes to Defcon 1 as soon as someone reports powerful Goat monster sighted. But if three other villains do it, Equestria goes to maybe Defcon 2-3 if they're discovered. Regardless, Grogar remains hidden and continues his plotting without immediately giving away his return until the time comes.
I personaly think that grogar needed these 3 villians specificaly to get the bell
If he cared so much about his Bell, why would he rely on them to get it for him and not go with them to make sure they wouldn’t, well hide it like they did
Here’s my theory. What if Grogar planned for their potential betrayal. Like... Sombra’s betrayal and attack on Equestria pretty much worked in Grogar’s favor. Sure one of the more powerful villains is now out of the picture for good, but it did result in Equestria’s best weapon being taken out of the equation. What if Grogar planned for Sombra to go at it alone and used his defeat as a way to get the other three to fall in line.
Though the tree is restored once more, and at a more powerful form at that, so not really(the tree can make a projection of itself fully capable of magic, so it could defend itself)
This is a great theory, also Grogar in this show makes me think of Mumm-Ra.
Grogar : You're just the players in my master plan
I think that he did get his bell while he was gone then he set it up because your points make since
Wow that makes sense I mean he wouldn't let these goons to retrieve his bell in the likes of these creeps.
I mean he's one step ahead of them and sooner than later he'll dispose his United Alliance of EVIL.
Grogar's magic is a very saturated yellow and is lined with black, in fact it's mostly black. Gusty's magic is a pale yellow, and so is the magical forcefield, so I'm fairly sure it was Gusty's magic on Mt. Everhoof.
I loved this episode. It was funny and very enjoyable. I hope there's more to grogar than just his bell because he's a very interesting and powerful villain!!
That is a very compelling theory, and I do like it. Though, I think there will be a flaw in the plan, one Grogar and the others may not see right away...the actual Magic of Friendship, the three started feeling it there after getting the bell, but quickly fended it off. Who is to say when they try to betray him, perhaps in the climax thinking him not ready...the Magic once more takes hold, only now reinforced by Twilight Sparkle and her friends...it would almost be a fitting end to the series, three major villains redeemed at once, and the most powerful evil force Equestria has known defeated.
Of course Grogar used his Bell as a set-up to get them to work together, so they'd be able to work together for his plan. He also knows where they hid it, as it is reacting to his presence at the end. He just wants to see what they'll do. They're still of no threat whatsoever to him, even with the Bell. Gusty did genuinely steal and seal away the Bell, but Grogar saw an opportunity to unite his subordinates by sending them on a difficult fetch quest.
I think Grogar knew they brought the bell. And he knew that they teamed up to get it.
And as soon they use the bell against him. Then he controlled the bell, reveal their friendship teamwork, and destroy them.
Cause he knew he need them for this task, to bring the bell and show their flaws.
Thankyou
Thankyou
Thankyou
Dr. Wolf
Grogar is the most dangerous villian after all with his magic being stronger than theres and all
Hes even older than tirek.
I really do believe grogar is keeping an extra goat crystal eye on them
Grogar obviously knowing his bell was there makes for a more interesting villain episode
I think you might be right. To a point anyway. Maybe Gusty has a similar color scheme.
I mean Twilight and the gang couldn’t sense the elements of harmony.
Will see how this goes. I do believe they’re betrayal will come back to bite them.
My idea is that Gusty did setup those protections for the bell. However Grogar needs the villains to work together for his scheme to work. So he sends them to retrieve it knowing that they will try to betray him. Grogar doesn’t need to be able to sense the bell to know where it is. The orb allows him to know its location regardless. Grogar is simply playing with them
Starswirl was able to sense when the Tree of Harmony was destroyed, so the Bewitching Bell leaving a massively fortified barrier should bring a noticable difference to the magic Grogar should be able to sense
Grogar = Xehanort
Sombra = Ansem
If you get the idea ;)
Eh?
Just to add more grogar has a magic orb that lets him see anything. Perhaps he was watching the 3 the whole time and he is just riding with their schemes
A theory I have heard is that discord is the bell. This one actually makes sense to me, the bell after years created a mind of its own and had a destructive instinct. Grougard didn't notice the bell because it was a forgery
I think it is a set up I mean he's one step ahead of them I mean this whole quest, teamwork, and betrayal was part of his plan.
He already knew of his bell and their traitory and sooner than later he'll dispose of them.
That makes sense
I think Grogar can't leave his place since he is probably cursed to stay there till he gets his bell. And it's too obvious Grogar will betray them.
Also the bell seems to have an eye. I think that might make it so he can see through the bell.
Here's my thoughts on this. Because I noticed somethings you may have missed doc.
This could be a set up but not the way you expect.
In the episode gogar stated he just Found the bell after tracking down for many years. Also he noticed the villains were not getting along very well. So he chose to Test them by getting his bell for him. That's probably why they went instead of him so he can see if they are willing to work together.
As we saw it (almost) payed off.
As for the bell. My guess is gogar doesn't know his bell has been found (yet)
All he has to do is look in that black eye of his and find the bell. Then he will know what really happened. It's only a matter of time.
if your idea comes ture it will made Grogar the most awesome villain of this gen.
Really good question again. But with no answer. We definitely miss something, the episode definitely has deepper meaning. As I know the writers, they will definitely do the most unexpected thing of all. This means we can't know for sure.
Some things make sense that this was all a setup. So it is possible. But even tho, I am not sure. Maybe this wasn't Grogar's plan. If he really couldn't find his bell, his powerful artefact, for thousands of years, maybe Gusty's spell is too powerful even for him. We've seen protection in Equestria before and we know it can be very strong. Maybe the spell was mend to keep him away. And Gogar was really mad at the end so maybe he doesn't know about the bell the others brought. And does he know about the betrayel? I don't know. But if he doesn't, he better continue not to believe to the others.
Hope we'll find out soon.
This does makes sense. Also the reason Grogar wouldn't just want his bell at all times anyway was that (at least in G1) it wasn't just his source of power. It's his weakness. If Tambelon appears in this series, there's a bigger bell inside Tambelon that if rung, would banish the bell and anyone holding/wearing it to the Realm of Darnkess.
I think Grogar knows that they're lying to him and that they have his bell. It would also be a good twist if it turned out he doesn't need his bell anymore and is only letting them think they have something over him so they'll learn to work together.
I have my own theory:
What if at some point they try to use the bell against him, he over powers them, and then he hurts Chrysalis. Tirek and Cozy Glow suddenly run to her and they realize they actually care for her as they are true friends. Then as Grogar is picking up his bell, gloating (I kinda imagine this was all during a battle against the main 6 possible so that way Grogar had been distracted while they try to use the bell) and then he and the Main 6 get a surprise as Chrysalis starts to glow ... and suddenly undergo the metamorphosis that Thorax and the others went under and she becomes all sparkly and such. Then the three realize what just happened and while Grogar is still recovering from his shock, the main 6 (who had been knocked aside) suddenly leap up and manage to get to the bell and right as they think they're about to lose, the 3 villains suddenly lunge and help secure the bell and subdue Grogar. They now have the bell and they look to one another and hand it over to Twilight and the others (maybe? That or they remain Villains but they're a villainous trio that has each other's backs)
That's similiar to what i was thinking and hoping for actually.
You know I was thinking what if the real grogar didn't look like that... what if he had ram looking horns rather than goat looking ones and he had red glowing eyes similar to the gen 1 grogar and his true appearance was changed and lost to time and he never had yellow eyes with red pupil's and maybe had pinkish magic also similar to gen 1
I thought this too! I felt like grogar wanted the three to bond better so he sent them here
Also the shield was pretty weak for protecting that bell
One would certainly hope that Grogar is privy to this attempt at betrayal.
In the story we can see that Gusty has a yellow magic aura when she dissapears
Yeah I think it's very possible Grogar set this up and knows about their little scheme
or the bell doesn't do what they think and he actually doesn't need it
I think you're definitely on to something. Given what we've seen of Grogar so far, it would certainly make sense if he foresaw all of this from the beginning. In his mind, it doesn't matter if they are planning to betray him because he knows that even with all their power combined, they're still no match for him. It's also possible that his bell only works for him.
That bell maiby his weakness somthing like Rasputin in Anastasia a item that make him more strong but also if the bell get destroy can kill grogar 🤔
The power of friendship may be the only way to break it as it's been said to be unbreakable
That might be possible
I feel like in the end the evil trio will ditch grogar and fight against him, but grogar is too strong for them, then the evil trio need help from the main 6. Then they get reformed.
Uh...I think that the synopsis itself leads to the conclusion that he sent them on this project to learn to work together.
That's a very interesting theory. You've made me rewatch these scenes and I noticed something else. The bell glowed when it was in the cave near Grogar, but not on Mount Everhoof. The bell reacted to Grogars present. Why didn't Grogar? Or could he just see and hear the bell and not feel the present of his bell? Grogar became much more interesting for me now.
For the love of god, please let this be a set up. We need a satisfying villain for the final season.
Grogar's Bell could be real and a setup at the same time.
If we assume Grogar could get the bell himself, there is still a good reason to send his minions. Of course he would be watching them in his crystal ball. There are 3 possible scenarios.
-They retrieve the bell and deliver it to Grogar: They have learned to work as a team and Grogar has the bell without risking exposing himself.
-They retrieve the bell but hide it: They have learned to work as a team, Grogar knows for sure they will try to betray him and he knows where the bell is hidden, so he can get it with less effort.
-They fail to retrieve the bell: Grogar knows what exactly the obstacles are and has an easier time retrieving his bell, which is also what Tirek's original plan was.
Random comment: why do I feel like the show is going to turn the intro song into a final speech in the finale minus the my little pony parts
that's actually probable lol.
I think you're onto something, DrWolf.
A double double cross, that could turn out to be something great.
Remember black panther
The guy with a gun arm is looked at. The main bad guy in the beginning but dies halfway
What if grogar. Fails
Or what if he is trying to create his own Dark-friendship magic to counterattack the Friendship magic of Twilight?
remember he is going for the main defenses of Equestria
And it going in the same way as Tirek in G1 have the Dark-rainbow but never used in G4
I did find it a little weird that they hid it closer.
but, think about it. if those 3 weren't able to retrieve it, he already knows where it is. why would he use his orb to try to find it?
Yes!!! I think Grogar knows everything because of his orb(the same way he saw Sombra defeated) and this was just an evil version of a "friendship test" and he will roast them all later.
I think the bell isn't the endgame. It's just one bit of a grander plan that he's forging that goes beyond the three other villains. As for them, I would like to think that he's just luring them into a false sense of certainty. Do you recall at the premiere when he was summarizing his reign of the earliest Equestria? How he created the foulest of creatures and allowed them to run wild to do as they pleased? I think that Grogar is doing just that; letting his "monsters", in this instance his "allies", run wild and take what they please in order to benefit a huger part of his plan.
I don't doubt that he knows they are on the verge of betraying him, he's just biding his time and letting them set everything up for him so when he betrays them, they won't see it coming.
I thought that the bell came with its own security system that Gusty must’ve activated it beforehand to she went off
Im still wondering how the three of them could use the bell, because I would imagine it would only work for grogar himself.
Honestly I would not be surprised if the Bell does end up being "a setup."
Yellow Magic might be an extreamly old form of magic older then the other types of magic
I feel like he sent them cause it was to dangerous for him
After I watched, I am expecting him to be aware of their plan to back stab him. So when they go to try, he'll be ready to back stab the back stabbers in an awesome scene. Plus if it was Gusty's magic, then there'd have to be Starlight and Twilight levels of magic or stronger to have it last this long, since even Celestia and Luna's had a limit for containment. Granted that was a living creature, aka Sombra, but it was still a seal nonetheless. I'm so wanting to see Cozy get flung or something again. That just feels so refreshing to see the evil little filly get swatted for some reason (Episode 1 scene with Tirek as example and her with that snowball in this episode). Hoping he shows he's not so dumb as to let his guard down with them. Maybe Tirek could start suspecting to himself that Grogar knows of their plan (all seeing eyeball and what not) but doesn't tell the other two so has his own plan to back stab Grogar when Grogar goes to back stab them when they try to back stab Grogar the first time.
Oh! Maybe there can be a four level back stabbing! Trio goes to back stab Grogar, Grogar counters with his own back back, Tirek goes to back stab Grogar alone and Grogar counters that with his own back stab. Wow that'd be some advanced planning, hehe ^_^.
Oh mother of Luna Grogar could've been the greatest villain of MLP......curse you writers. DX,