Carbon Fiber 3D Printing 101 | Why All Carbon Filled Filaments Aren't Equal
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มิ.ย. 2024
- What does Carbon Fiber even mean in 3D Printing? It's actually a little more complex than you think.
Join Rob and Cole as we dive into the world of carbon fiber filaments, how they work, how they print and how in some cases, they can actually make your parts significantly weaker.
Check out www.visionminer.com/materials for our selection of CF Nylons
Thanks to @CNCKitchen Stefan for letting us use some Carbon Fiber footage! Check out his awesome foray into Carbon Fiber filaments here: • 3D PRINTING with CARBO...
At Vision Miner, we specialize in Functional 3D printing, especially high-performance plastics like PEEK, ULTEM, PPSU, PPS, CFPA, and more. We also have extensive experience with 3D scanners, and a whole array of solutions available for purchase. If you're interested in using functional 3D printing and materials in your business, feel free to reach out, and we can help you make the right choice for your application.
Call 833-774-6863 or email contact@visionminer.com, and we're here to help!
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I worked in aviation for 10 years as a project estimator and another 2 years as a chief inspector and I can honestly say you guys know your stuff when touching on the topic of aviation manufacturing! I wish you guys had a facility in my area because I would send my resume your way in a heartbeat. I fell in love with 3D printing 4 years ago and just can't get enough. You guys got the dream job!
Hot glue gun on a robot is how I describe FDM printers all the time. Glad to hear an expert using the same description.
Same here except I say a hot glue gun mixed with a cnc machine
@@Floodbait_117i say hot glue on a robot and also the opposite of cnc 😂
the CF PPS sounds amazing!! 💪 great roundup!
Would love to see more examples of industrial applications.
Just found your channel recently, I really appreciate the knowledge you pass on for people like me who are interested but dont have the time to research everything in depth and as often as I would like. Thank you.👏
Welcome aboard! Thank you so much!
Great overview. I'd love to see some direct head-to-head comparisons between the filaments that you have available for a specific application. Define some common characteristics, rigidity, toughness, chemical resistance, temperature resistance, etc and put a few filaments into a comparison for each catagory. It's really tough to choose the right filament for the job with so many filaments available.
What I'm expecting from Carbon fiber filaments is not the strength and rigidity but:
1. Less warping
2. Dimensional accuracy
3. Easier support removal
4. Smooth surface
100% !
I disagree if you use carbon tow line it increases tensile strength greatly especially if horizontal printing.
From a hobbyist’s perspective I was laughing at the “pretty” description because it seems like everyone is coming out with a CF something or other and aside from looking pretty, I don’t see the draw at all. Great explanation of the different industrial grades, thanks, as always, for the informative video!
You can tell the crazy rigidity numbers of the CF-PPS! It sounds like metal!
very informative on a hot topic. thanx guys!
This video was very informative I learned so much As I am getting into 3-D printing for the 1st time
Awesome insights! Cool sounds 😎
Holy smokes does that CF-PPS ring! And I agree on all points especially since I so often get told by others that CF filaments "aren't worth it" but when I ask what filament they used it's always ones that use milled CF which yield no real mechanical benefits that high quality CF filaments offer. This is an absolutely great resource given how often y'all print with CF filaments. I print with almost nothing but CF as well because it's so awesome however, Industrial grade CF can't be compared to low quality CF.
Really nice vid i just discovered you guys today. But i have 2 questions. First what brands can you recommend from EU will check your website later if i can find some there. Second do you know about greentec pro carbon and where would that one rank? (high/top tier or at low/bottom looking for some heat resistant easy to print and maybe strong filament)
Best intro ever
6:24 ok that sounds like literally a piece of metal. Incredible work I will probably look into ordering some filaments from you guys
What filament would you advice to use for bike frame printing? comparable to the stregth capabilities of aluminum or titanium?
Great video thank you so much,, I need to have an aerospace version printer and materials,,, would you please help me to provide the equipment???
Essentium HTN CF25, or other FDM PA-CF filaments that you specify on your website 😉.
I’m from Nigeria I saw your and I would like to know what kind of nozzle should be use for the mosquito hotend for 3d printing
Hi i want to print a auxetic structure of carbon fiber composite , which method and material i should pick for the best result ? Anyone could help ?
Great content guys. I’ve always had issues with moister absorption. Prints are amazing and stiff when printed but a week or two later they’re unusable. Any tips on this?
The cf nylon actually called for a water soak. From stratasys.
YES!!! I can't stand when I see a video that just says "Carbon Fiber" because I have no idea what material it's in. I know most of the time it's Nylon, but there are Carbon Fiber filled filament for everything. PLA, PETG, Nylon, PC, ABS, PEEK, and all sorts of other polymers. So thank you for bringing this up.
I have never 3D printed anything but carbon fiber is my favorite material and color. I have it on my car, motorcycle, bicycle, belt buckle, money clip, folding pocket knife, wallet, ring and a pool cue made of carbon fiber. Question for you is what is a good budget-friendly 3D printer that's able to print PEEK+CF20. I will most likely make automotive, motorcycle, bicycle parts (brackets levers mounts Etc) and anything else I could think of out of this carbon fiber material.
My job is to produce Phototypes that are close to a final product, extended time use.
My question is the long term duribility of these carbonfiber blends? It seams to me there may be a weakinging over time due to the mixture of extremly hard (carbonfibre) and the softer compoinets. Thanks
Do you have a vid of a strength comparison of them?
how does one slice correctly for a turbine blisk? like the spokes on a wheel? I only find concentric in cura. any tips?
What 3D printers can I buy for home use to be able produce cfpps?
What is the best carbon fiber for making car parts
Awesome! I'd like to build home made quadcopter frames. Right now I'm using PETG filament for poc purposes. I'd also like to try printing it with carbon fiber. I'm aware that 3d printed carbon fiber won't be as strong compared to the ready-made carbon-fiber frames. Which brand would you recommend?
I use petg-CF from phaetus. They have a full spec sheet on it. It's very good. It has the give of petg with a rigidity like pla.
(New to 3D printing and in the learning phase while planning builds with sketches)
How do I get into the second/third tier and avoid the milled stuff. Just a hobbyist who want heat resistance and something that doesn’t loose shape over time under clamping pressure, but otherwise the properties in cheap pla/petg is good enough. Maybe there is something better than carbon infused materia?
Hi, fantastic video, thank you. Which CF material I can print on my Voron with 50-70° C in bed? I don't care how it looks, I want strong prints.
CFPA6 is going to be your go-to! :) visionminer.com/products/3dx-cfpa6
Hi! I own a sheet metal fab in spain and i recently bought an ultimaker s5, and im wondering what type of carbon fiber material should i go for printing bending tools to get a decent quality whit a decent price!
You guys are doing a great jon thankyou!
CFPA6 is great, even PLA can work sometimes!
Coming from a metals background it sounds like the carbon added essentially amounts to being a contaminant in the plastic if I understand correctly.
What would you recommend for a hobbyist who wants to try out a legit CF filament for the first time? I want something noticeably stronger than PLA, but I don't need super high industrial grade. I'd appreciate your recommendation.
There's no better go-to in our opinion than CFPA6 -- CF Nylon -- but specifically a good PA6 like the one from 3DXTech (visionminer.com/materials) - you'll have a good time with warping/etc, but it's worth it! You could also consider Obsidian, which prints much easier. visionminer.com/products/obsidian-pa6-cf-markforged-onyx-alternative
Can you please provide links to the CF filaments discussed?
Done! visionminer.com/materials has them all -- check them out!
Interesting topic to talk about. I've been using Atomic Filament's Carbon Fiber PETG for a bit and I do like it though something feels off. I recently printed a solid infill linkage I designed for a fourbar mechanism out of the CF PETG and tried folding it in half by hand. I did the same with a print in natural PETG solid infill and noticed that both pieces broke very similar in a ductile manner. Maybe the carbon fibers used wasn't as optimal as I thought or maybe I'm doing something wrong? Going to try and compare Atomic CF PETG with 3DX Tech CF PETG and see the difference. At least 3Dx Tech has a nice TDS on it's stiffness compared to Atomic brand but we'll see.
Just got my order of 3DX Tech CF PETG and man it is night and day with Atomic Filament CF PETG! I printed a little plank that I did before and it snapped as I was expecting it should. Then I realized that Atoimic stated there filament to be not as brittle as other CF filaments so I should have read the fine print. Moral of the story, check the TDS and compare the tensile and elongation at break % to determine how stiff of a filament you're getting! :)
is it possible to CUT carbon-fiber with s1 laser module?
what is the best printer for carbon fiber printer ?
I love Using carbon fiber nylon. But I want to try Kevlar infused nylon
Can we print an aircraft?? Even a light private piston one???? May be bizarre idea but it is long long I am thinking about it,,,,
what recomend printer can use these material.
is that any use pellet directly instate of filament ?
that CF PPS already sound like metal... like to know more about it
Any printer can essentially handle the basic ones, but we recommend our 22 IDEX for any of them, hands down all day :)
I thought CF would be a good material for a pulley because I want the extra surface friction. I've printed 1 already, 2nd on the way.
I need a material for a car engine that does not deform under some stress at prolonged temperature 70 to 100C. a) Inlet manifold so resistant to fuel, and pressure from O-ring compressions b) thermostat housing working in a pressurised cooling system also with O-rings. My supplier is currently using C/F PLA.
CFPA6 -- done. Or, if you can afford and print the higher-temp stuff, HTN+CF -- a high temp CF Nylon. Full-send? ULTEM™ 9085.
Most of the time, it's difficult to convince a industrial customer to use CF-PEKK instead of virgin PEKK for instance, because they believe that they don't need it. And if you propose a discount for the CF-PEKK version because it's easier for you, they wonder where is the catch.
I know you say the mark forge continuous carbon is “proprietary. But you can buy 3k or 6k tow continuous. The question or more realistically the solution would be post infuse right after extrude but before pulleys correct diameter. Hypothetically an extruder could be setup to add the tow line in to it, I am not sure if such a thing could be proprietary if on outdated create a simple injection process. I might try it with n extruder and pla pellets just to see if I can.
More specifically, the onyx polymer is their own blend, and the hardware is proprietary -- check out Continuous Composites, they have a pretty cool setup :)
@@VisionMiner Wowww that is amazing, their idea was brilliant with resin uv cured on the fibers, thanks for sharing that. I was thinking regular filament Gerry rigged on a 3evo or something. Their process reminds me of the quote "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see" - Arthur Schopenhauer
3:09 Isn't ABS with milled CF stronger than ABS alone? Plus, I understand that people are able to print (e.x., Voron parts) w/ milled CF ABS w/o an enclosure.
Milled CF actually decreases the surface area of the polymer attaching to itself, making it much weaker -- when you have chopped carbon strands, they act like skeletons, but milled is just dust, which makes it worse :)
I have a question? Is there a material strong enough to print a automotive or motorcycle wheel and have you ever done this successfully yourself?
I suppose CF-PPS could probably be used for that, but metal additive manufacturing is actually used to print wheel centers from aluminum or titanium. Not in a large scale but it exists. Look up Spyros Panopoulos Automotive for example.
Thank you for explaining what I wanted to know about carbon fiber.
Glad it was helpful!
Can you print with hemp
PEEK + CF or just peek
this is going with that high pitch sound
No wonder my $30 CF filament gun receiver blew up lol.
My conviction is carbon fiber filament, even at a low rate, will be crucial to democratize the use of engineering material since the limitation of "affordable" industrial 3d printers with an enclosure remains the max temperature of the build volume. For PLA, ABS, PETC etc, the addition of Carbon Fiber is an upgrade, for PEAK or PEI printing virgin material is a "luxury".
Has ultimaker been eaten like toast by stratasys? Butter may be required by some if so.
Can you recommend a CF filament for home/Hoby printing that has strands and not milled CF ?.
Atomic, phaetus, IEMAI(Amazon). All use chopped fiber. Bambu lab is nice too but not sure if it is in fact chopped. I am using the Phaetus ae-worthy petg-CF personally for production of my parts. I did TONS of research on all CF filaments for months. I specifically needed rigidity and strength in the z axis as one of my parts is suspended across two rails 20" apart and I needed it to not snap but also not bend under average weight. Phaetus ended up being the strongest and most cost effective. The atomic which is USA made is very strong too but they refuse to publish specs on their filament. And I was looking to buy 100's of spools and they still wouldn't tell me. Some of the more expensive CF filaments are actually no better and sometimes worse than cheaper brands (I'm looking at you 3DO) and have been reviewed and tested to be pure marketing. So higher cost does not equate to better filament in most cases. I am paying $28-$35 per kilo and it's better than the $50 brands.
@@phasesecuritytechnology6573Hi that's great, I already use IEMAI ASA and it prints really well but I had no idea if it was milled or chopped carbon so I think I will stick with that especially if your recommending it, thanks for getting back to me so quickly I really appreciate it 👍.
Does one need to buy your printers to print CF PPS?
One simply needs a high-temperature printer with nozzle temps upwards of 400c, and a build plate temp upwards of 160c, and a heated chamber at or over 90c+ to effectively print PPS or CFPPS -- we just happen to carry several options that will work, since high temp is all we do :)
Does cf also help ABS from warping?
Yes
All i did was increase the flow rate 50 percent more and nozzle temprature to 235c and my carbon fiber PLA printed the same as my regular PLA
Can you layer Aerospace carbon fiber overtop of a 3D printed metal such as aluminum alloy?
Also, what is the strongest strength to weight ratio 3D printable material? Say if you wanted something to stop arrows or even bullets and were making a shield or armor.
Could you layer the aerospace carbon fiber over aluminum alloy (or something lighter/stronger) in the same part of the shield for instance, all in the same print?
Why would you want to use carbon fibre for stopping bullets and arrows? Thats what Aramid (Kevlar) fibers are for. You use CF for high stiffness to weight ratio, but CFRP is very brittle as CF does not stretch much (max 1% if I remember correctly). If you need to absorb lots of energy from an impact, stiffness is not your friend.
Your post got me thinking: if CF reinforced filament is such a big market, would anybody sell Kevlar reinforced filament? And apparently, they do 😀
DIY filament seems viable considering…
Cotton/hemp strands.. even Ballistic nylon fiber added to?…
How about continuous strand?
Really the only legitimate form of "carbon fiber 3D printing"
chopper carbon fiber filaments (also technically milled) but anything on continuous!
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I need for 3d printing a modul for naval applications for a drive with high pressure and which will be covered with carbonefiber sheets and expoxy.
Basicly its a positive sample which is that layers of carbonefibercloth thinner.
the wallthickness is about 4 mm, and I need a printer which is able to print 45 × 45 × 45 cm ...
And that cheap as possible, its for a prototype and Im not rich.
what you can recomend?
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I've yet to find a CF filament that's worth the hassle. Less hassle --> no benefit, lot's of hassle --> slightly better than PETG/PLA
I'm confused on your statement "Milled carbon fibre....decreases the strength....by a factor of 100". Which strength property are you referring to, here? Reason I ask is because milled fiber (both glass and CF) have been used for decades in various plastics (resin casting, epoxy paint systems, injection moulding) to increase tensile strength, part stiffness, and dimensional stability.
So, my question is, are you saying the addition of mCF will produce a part that is stronger than the base polymer, but weaker than a part using long-discontinuous or continuous CF? Or are you saying that adding mCF will produce a part weaker than the base polymer?
There is a lot of confusion and marketing wank regarding the addition of fibres to FDM resins, for sure, and a lot of it is BS. I find your videos to be helpful resources regarding engineering applications for FDM, but also want to ensure I am understanding what is being said correctly.
-TIA
Even vision miner referance cnc kitchen :D
Milled CF
Commercial/ common CF
Industrial CF
Aerospace CF
BOOM! You got it! In for the win, email us at contact@visionminer.com and we'll get you that Nano!
@@VisionMiner I did, Thanks!
Is there any consumer grade product that you can recommend? That us consumers can buy? That won’t burn a whole in our wallets?
Phaetus ae-worthy petgcf, atomic , IEMAI
What wears out first besides the nozzle when printing CF reinforced filaments? and how come Glass fiber is more abrasive than carbon fiber?
Everything touching and rubbing the filament wears out. I would think the extruder gears are the second thing after the nozzle. Glass is harder than graphite (which is a first approximation for the atomic structure of CF) due to the atomic bonds and structure. A glass cannot plastic deform. Graphite can glide parallel to its graphene planes and that is why it is even use as a lubricant. In CF these graphene planes are (in the ideal case) aligned with the direction of the fiber. So you usually do not glide the planes relative to each other while loading the fibers, except under shear stresses.
Thanks :)
answer to the question is Milled, regular, industrial, aerospace grade carbon fibres
Milled
Standard
Industrial
Aerospace
Correct! Second correct answer, we'll send you something special since you came in close -- email contact@visionminer.com :)
@@VisionMiner Thank you so much! Just sent the email 😁
It sounds like metal. That’s nuts.
I watch for the comedy🤣🤣🤣
Hahaha we're having way too much fun with this!
strength test
The worst thing with all carbon fiber added to FDM is layer adhesion. You can do whatever you want, the layer adhesion will always be worse sadly.
Not true. I have extensively used petg CF for a year now. Printed hundreds of parts already using 4 different brands. Zero layer adhesion issues. Design it right, slice it right, print it right, never breaks.
@@phasesecuritytechnology6573 layer adhesion will be worse compared to petg without cf. It cant be any different way regardles of the way you slice or print it. Thats just how Physics works. Petg has very good layer adhesion anyway and getting 10-20% weaker shouldnt matter anyway. We cant trick physics.
How can I order that Vape juice?
Essentium htn cf 25
My favorite filament! Really incredible stuff.
"Gimme that pps again!!!! "
Milled Chopped Aerospace
Missed Industrial grade! Good job though :)
Best Filament for bang bang quieter?
Discontinuous carbon fiber!
Fire your editor 😂
For the example of the press brake. Your comparing 3D printed parts with tool steel?
Like..... WTF!!!
You basically just did what the miller CF filament guys do with their product. Totally over sold your capability.
You were doing so well till you said.... this is a corolla, it can do what your Porsche does but for a fraction of the cost. I mean they both get you to work... yes.
Hmmm...nah they don't even do that the same.
I am now going to have double check everything you have said.
I am being sold to rather than advised.
Your shipping rates are flat out Greedy..
Is Nylonx matterhackers a good brand? Also, is there a less expensive alternative?
Carbon fibre fabrics
Carbon fibre mats
Carbon fibre tapes
Carbon fibre tow
Carbon fibre fibre and
Carbon fibre prepregs
🫡