Maybe, but you'll have to haul it all the way to Hollywood for that (or some other obscure location where the next Oh-Dear dealership is). Over-the-air-updates? What are we, a phone company?
I’m a maintenance supervisor in a steel mill. Many of our pins are retained this way and it is a design/engineering flaw. Pin seized in the clevis, when you raise the blade the notch in the pin levers the keepers and breaks the bolts. Solution was to machine the notch in the pin the full circumference so the pin can rotate if needed.
As Don has described, it doesn’t require a huge amount of torque turning those pins to exert a huge shear force to those tab retaining bolts. A short arc of movement coupled with a tendency to neglect the lubrication of the dozer blade pivots (obviously in favour of the arm and slew turntable) will soon result in problems with this fixing method.
And that mentality came straight from Cat of the early 2000s; the "Downsize til we can't downsize no more; then subcontract the stuff." Luckily after my time. I'd hate to be connected to a sticker company that it's turned into today. Just one step above G.M.
As another enginerd, I can tell ya that's not JUST a "feature" but additional job security. I'm working on the software fix for that problem right now. We are thinking bluetooth pins.
A machine breaking parts in its normal operation and over its service life is normal. Stuff happens. This kind of damage after 120 hours isn't normal wear and tear.
This happens to all my bucket pins running breakers or pulverizers. The 90mm pin tabs break off. I weld big chunks of thick steel to capture the attachment pins and move on with my operating. . . Pretty common really.
It's interesting that they are breaking. There should not be much force on them as the pin takes all the abuse. Their job is only to hold the pins centered. I wonder if there is a bad bushing or the guide holes are are out if round.
@@sumduma55 Perhaps there's a friction issue. When the joint rotates it could stick and put torque on the pin. The pin will then push the retainer up and shear the bolt.
@@jerzmacow it's possible. But that would mean lack of lube or bushing problems. I don't even know if that model has bushings in that joint. Worn bushings or out of round holes can put excess pressure causing much the same forces though. It can also cause the action you described. The blades on those mimi excavators are only used to artificially extend the wheel/track length and stabilize the unit when digging or going up hills. As small as they are, they can tip rather easily when digging or leaning backwards over the counter weight. Some people will use them as a backstop for whatever they are digging but you will typically tear up the teeth on the bucket before the blade. At least in my experience. You can do some light pushing with them but it shouldn't be treated as a dozer blade or anything. You are correct to assume there is a larger problem than just the bolt shearing off. I guess the question is where that problem is.
This may require the fabrication on a new copper/brass swing press. on with a tree skeleton (technically a carbon fibre material) handle? More cowbell indeed.....
The pin is twisting when the blade is used as an outrigger. The fulcrum is so close to the center of the pin, it acts as a rotary wedge. Welding that strap to the pin will give the bolts a fighting chance.
My experience is you either weld or use bolts, but not both at the same part to fix something. If it goes wrong, you'll break both weld and bolt (unsure what will go first, but if one goes, the other will snap quickly after). A solution would be to make 2 full caps, one for each side. Tap 4 holes in the base metal to fix each cap and shorten the pin so it will be able to rotate free in the socket, trapping it inside. Might need to add a grease nipple somewhere to prevent it from running dry.
As a certified farmricobbler I have found with pins sometimes it's best to let them float side to side a little so what I typically do is weld a washer to one side then drill and tap the other end and use a heavy washer and lock washer and/or loctite to capture the pin. Never done it on an excavator, but hope this helps.
Not a good idea to do it. The pin needs to be fixed, so it only moves on brondze/steel bushing, that wears out with time and can get changed. If the pin is not fixed - it will eventualy maul out the holes on fixed side and repair of those is a lot more expensive than changing a bushing.
Factory recall😂 as soon as they saw that counterweight round the corner, you is in your own. Sticky pin, loose bolt. You do the math. Couple hundred cycles and she’s dickered! It was in failure mode right from dealer assembly and pdi that you paid for. Time for the hot metal glue gun!
Whatever you do don't fix it yourself. John Deere can do it for 8 times the cost and with the same genuine junk they gave you in the first place. Right to repair...FJD.
My 2c. Pins for heavy equipment always want to turn with the movement of the pivot. If you prevent the rotation, the moment to much dirt or rust gets in there and it binds, it will put a hell of a lot of force through the weakest link. That pin cutout is a bit of a cam shape allowing it to put a lot more force on the retaining clip and shearing the bolt if that pin binds and moves with plow. A simple fix would be to throw it in a lathe and machine out that groove all around the pin so that lateral movement is constrained but it is free to rotate and will no longer cause the bolts to sheer off.
The point of that tab is not only to keep the pin in, but also stop it from spinning. If the pin spins or moves it will wallow out the hole in the plate.
@@hoakuroija1089 @Hoakuroija That is likely true to a certain extent, however most operators I've known prefer pins that don't fall out over machines that goes 10% longer before needing to line bore the pivots which is controlled more by the quality of greasing and pin and bushing material selection rather than pin movement anyway. Some pins have a tab welded to them that is bolted or welded to the frame to secure it, but I've seen those break too especially with high contamination, high load applications, like an excavator blade pivot. If it truly wasn't supposed to pivot, they could have secured it a lot better but if you look at the design, it was clearly designed to prevent lateral movement and not designed to prevent or account for any substantial amount of rotation force causing it to fail whenever the pivot became stiff which would be something a designer trying to reduce wear would be aware of. I understand your point, but having a dirty blade pivot result in the machine falling apart is a design flaw. While you could try to design a stronger retainer for the pin to prevent a tiny amount of potential additional wear, the rotational forces that can be transferred to a locked pin are huge and the simplest solution is to allow it to rotate.
This even happens on our 30 ton cat, 2020 Nex Gen 330 Caterpillar has pins similar to this, bolt threads into the hole.. if its not greased daily the main bucket pin walks and bends the arm the bolt is connected to.. but if greased properly it doesnt bend.. 7-8k pin lol
I would weld a short piece of flat bar to the steel plate, above the retainer bar so it could not rotate up and shear the bolt. That way you could still remove the pin by removing the two screws and drifting out the retainer bar or driving out the pin. Its interesting there is enough torsional force on the pin to cause that? Maybe there is a misalignment in those pins.
I know that sometimes they introduce points of failure to protect machines from worse damage. For example, I was told on ploughs there is a fastener that breaks before you rip off all the plowshares. No idea if this qualifies as such a designed failure introduction; I actually have difficulty imagining that there.
On the commercial brand Walker lawnmowers, the cutting blades are attached with small bolts to a steel cup which break if the blades hit something hard like a tree stump. Those bolts are 'sacrificed' to save the blade-driving gearbox from damage.
There is no reason to have that be a weak point. Having the pin walk out would cause a lot of damage if you didn't notice it, way more than you could hurt the machine by using the blade hard.
@@joeylawn36111 Lol, that only works on one side because the spindle nuts are both regular threads, hit something hard enough on the other side the spindle nut tightens and detonates the gearbox, I’ve seen 2 exploded walker deck gear boxes on a machine with 4500 hours on the other 2 deck gear boxes. Also walkers are a right bitch to grease… *shudders* way too many fucking oil reservoirs and grease points, on a MT with a hi-dump 8 oil reservoirs and ~40 grease fittings.
We make large earth moving equipment. On smaller machines the 'tab' head style pins retained with a bolt were fine for decades. However, now most of our pins have a hex head on one end with the inverse hex stop welded to the machine. The opposite end of the pin has a 3-hole cap with SHCS or HHCS to secure it pin place and prevent it from rotating. There is more machining involved and a larger BoM but totally worth it -- for RADIAL force applications, not Axial/Thrust.
Turn a shoulder pin with external threads on the non shouldered side, cross drilled for a castle nut and a captured pin. and a big ass washer. Or use HPHT as usual.
Aw yeah, first thing I thought was "shoulder bolt". This would be a good choice for Uncle B's hardrock gold ore pulverizer too. (In addition to the lock nuts.)
Worked on all kinds of equipment, line boring and healing ills. In my opinion, if you want it to be healed forever, make new pins out of 4140 or 4340, with a 1/2" thick integral washer head. Mill one side flat, and weld a square stock retainer on the ear tight against the washer head. . Make the pin greaseable, drill into the length, intersect in the center and add a spiral groove on the OD with sufficient depth to ensure grease flows throughout the bushing. Use a thin, moly EP1 grease, and grease the snot out of it. Petro Precision XL MOLY 5 EP1 is what I would recommend. The blade isn't high velocity or cycling a lot. Maybe even step down to a EP0. Want that to flow like water to ensure the whole bushing to pin interface is covered. Mixing grease thickeners can give you plenty of issues too.
The design worked perfectly on the drawing board. Since the pin couldn't move in two directions at once, there had to be a twisting moment to shear the bolts.
Amazing. My favorite motto: never blame the equipment, always blame the operator (current and past). Been in the equipment rental business a while, specializing in John Deeres too. Never seen that, especially with such low hours. The real design flaw is that with the blade fully raised and stick curled in there is interference between the blade and the bucket, so if you are facing backwards and rotate the gantry too quickly you will damn near break the blade right off. I assume that is what happened and it somehow side loaded the hardware holding on the pin locking plates. Or the torque gun they used for the hardware had a bad day. Built on a Friday
After reading all the comments that I should I see that only one is close to a proper fix and Fabricobbling! Here’s what I Did with 3 pins on a 1969-1971 ish Case 480CK Construction King. After all it was well worn out and I rescued it from the junk yard. I made Doughnuts 🍩 for at least one end of the pins got pins from the JD dealer that had a Take me home now price beneath 3/4” of dust on a back of the showroom wall. They fit tighter than the worn out ones, but they stuck out a bit more so I turned some 4”Diameter doughnuts. And they were 1-1/2” thick with a 1-1/4 hole. Then I put that in my Mill and flattened two opposite sides and Drilled 5/16” holes through it aligned the holes in the pin and doughnuts, then Put a 5” long Grade 8 bolt lock washer and a pair of nuts with another lock washer between them. The owners sold it for close to 10k the Extend-A-Hoe valve pack was the last thing wrong with it and a few of remaining old Hoses. It was almost impossible to steer when I drove it home to work on... but when it was returned you could steer it with your pinky finger. All the lights worked plus the additional work lights I installed. Single wire Alternator, remote jumper attachments for Positive and Negative, and a entirely new battery Box. Replaced the Cutting edge on the Bucket, and most of the wiring. Some one got a great machine! I kinda miss all the fabricobbeling, even added additional hydraulic oil filter just before the new Hydraulic pump, and it was only lacking that big valve Body that was worn out. It would work but if you expected it to pass a leak down test it would fail. 5 cylinders of the 10, I had rebuilt, and hoses were replaced with new. Loved this machine! Volunteer wages and dug my pond 😃
The pin is designed to be static. The arm of the blade probably has a replaceable hard bushing, while the ears are mild steel. The pin is harder than the ear, but softer than the bushing. This makes the wear point the pin to bushing interface, with a bias for the pin to wear first. The ears on the frame are not bushed, and allowing the pin to rotate will wear them. Not fun to weld and line bore that point. A previous post suggested a keeper block welded beside the removable plate. Good idea! The block takes the shear force caused by the pin twisting, and the bolts just keep plate in position with clamping force. No more shear force on the bolts
Pin seizure in the bore during blade down operation. Pin rotation put upward shear load on the rear retainer bolt. Cut a radial groove all the way around the Pin instead of just a segment. No more shear on the bolt when the pin seizes.
From what I remember from the John Deere rep, the repair man should be on his way already. Frankly, I'm surprised he hasn't been by yet. If it ain't broke, he's got an extended warranty you forgot to pay for.
When that style of keeper breaks bolts like that it’s usually from the pin sticking or being seized and when you run the implement it “cams” on that small plate and shears off the bolt. Might have something to do with the low hours… low hours but how old is it? does it do a lot of sitting? Maybe the pins started to freeze up at some point and canned over and broke the bolts, then freed up again with some use?
Sounds like you're right from perusing the comments and noticing the grease fitting for the pin. Apparently they tend to do this if not greased regularly the pin cams over and breaks it.
This! I worked at a Deere dealership for 7 years. They would shear off when they didn’t get greased enough. Grease your pins every 8 hour shift and you won’t have any issues with it!
Big yup to this one. Could also increase the bolt grade or size. That pin is much larger and looks hardened so IMO the bolt would have to be way bigger before the pin or eyelets become the weak point. Looks like the bolt and pin should see similar shear force when that pin rotates based on the geometry.
Need more AvE videos in my life! Lost your sub in my original YT account and was so stoked to find you in my recommended videos last week. Glad to have you back in my sub list!
If you have the length, drill a hole, inch or whatever from each end through the cross section of the pin. Install pin, metal shim on each side. 3/4ish bolt on each side. Eyeball it. I also use shims to tighten up the boom, stick and bucket and h-link and quick coupler. get it within like 3/16”ish of play . You can also shave off or flatten off the ears and mating surface that pins pass through to help square things up.
Very common for a lot of Deere equipment, seen the same problem with the same style keepers on their dozers. However on the dozers the keeper tab is a thru bolt and not tapped. Is it an option to thru bolt it or can’t you get to the other end?
what i've done to fix this issue is to weld a piece of square stock against the retainer that will prevent the retainer from rotating in a way to sheer the bolts. 1/2"-3/4" square welded on 2 sides against the retainer so the only way for the pin to come out would be to unbolt the retainer. repair has held up fine. also did the exact same repair on a 0 hour machine which has not had this issue in 2 years of service. mind you, i have broken other things lol
So being in the hay baling business going on over 22 years now. I recount my second year into it with the second new round baler from Deere. Ran the first bale fine. The second bale was being spun up when I got a door alarm, and noticed that the belts seemed to be smoking. It was probably 3/4's to size, and thought maybe the gate didn't latch all the way. No biggie i thought, just stop and eject the bale. Well, as soon as I tried to kick it out the whole rig burst into flames on account of getting the oxygen every good fire needs. I jumped out and immediately got the pto detached, and tried to drive away from the baler, but the damn safety chains were keepin her following my tractor. Luckily there was a shallow pond in the field which I headed directly towards. The water didn't save me and the tractor, but the soft bottom of the pond did. I must've put the PTO shaft 6 feet under which broke the safety chains clean into this saving the tractor. Insurance guy came out, and the fault was from the factory. One of the rolling bars that the belts ride around had not a single bolt holding it. Just the green paint to hold it's connection in place... 😂. Moral of the story? Don't use the safety chains.
Forgot to mention that I dodged death again a few minutes later when one of the hydraulic cylinders that lift the gate up and down got so hot it sent the ram straight towards me like a missile. Luckily I was young then and had quite a vertical leap.
I recommend the tried and true method of stripping it all down to parts, looking at them in confusion, putting it all back together, and placing the one left-over part on a shelf somewhere, never to be found again.
Do you use the blade to push? How often? A problem that I encountered years ago was trying to do too much with the blade and using the blade to level the machine. A small gob of weld on the one side of the retainer seemed to help. But also using the blade less and the bucket more never had a problem after that
It's no secret the angry pixies get all hot and bothered at the mere thought of melting metal. To get back on their good side, you might need to sacrifice that pin to them.
Pins moving around is a common problem, like others have commented. The machine could also have been abused. The mining company I used to work for would buy undersized loaders and then decide they couldn't move enough and put bigger buckets on them. Then when they became too light and the ass ends would stand up in the air the company would just stick on more counterweights on the back. Then they would come back and bitch at the manufacturer about all the bent frames, broken center pins and bent cylinder rods.
Weld a washer on one end, bolt a washer on the other. Needs to be free to pivot, or it will free itself as you can see. John Deere never recalls anything. They have the “Product Improvement Plan”, or PIP as techs and service writers usually refer to it. As a former JD mobile service tech, I used to do all sorts of PIP installs. The idea is JD looks like they care and are taking care of your purchase, rather than admitting they sent out a poorly engineered product. More about preserving their image and saving money than anything.
As an extractor fan (used to be a farmer) this is very common when the pins get a bit of rust on them from sitting over winter...weld a BAW (big ass washer) to one end and drill the other end for a linch pin and leave the main pin floating..no grease all the crap just sticks to it and Waller's out the holes.
The question to solve is what was the failure mode for those bolt heads. My guess is overtightened, which stretched the free threads inside that retaining tab. There doesn't seem to be anything that could apply lateral force to side load the bolt or the lock tab for a shearing force. The retaining tabs don't look deformed like they got pushed out enough to pop the bolt heads, and the outer bolt heads were still in place on both sides.
yep just weld the stop plate to the pin. I loved Japan. I went in 95-96 as the first American-Japanese home building project. We taught them how to frame American style. It was kind of a big deal, Walter Mondale and the SS came to visit the site in Sendi. What a culture shock!
I see three solutions. The no modification solution is to remove the broken bolt and Locktite a bolt into the pin leaving it loose so the pin and bolt can rotate. Another option is to weld the tab to the pin. The final option is to rotate that tab so that the pin can not come out and tighten the bolt. Make a similar tab tap the frame and bolt the tab on so that the pin can't come out the other end. Welding the tab to the pin will prevent rotation of the pin so that all of the wear is on the arm of the blade which probably has a replaceable bushing, is probably the only part getting lubricated, and prevent the frame holes from wearing.
I’ve got a couple John Deere 325g skid steers and the pin bracket bolts break all the time, and the pins walk out on the arms for the attachment plate. John Deere wouldn’t warranty them, they wouldn’t even warranty the pins that snapped in half, they said we abused them and sold us new parts that broke within 20 hours. But the pin brackets I just welded those, nothing a grinder can’t fix if they need to come out.
The boltholes are to tight so that the pin can’t move. The answer is bigger holes and stepped bolts so that the locker-bar is loose on the bolts. Always good content!
Cut to suit, beat to fit, paint to match. Standard workorder. Did i mention i was a millwright in the paper industry. Washer on one side drill out bolts, rethread for a common size, rinse and repeat
No idea on recalls, but a common system I have seen is a tear drop shaped plate on one end of the pin with a single bolt for retention. Also, a longer pin with a larger head and a through-bolt or pin of some sort for retention.
Should have bought an American Deere made right down the street from me! Just kidding, Japan really does some skookum work! Love the place! Wanna visit there at some point!
Pins trying to rotate. Lack of grease! Tight factory joint (new) not allowing grease to migrate all around. Grind some little trace grooves around with a death wheel and half the grease interval for a while. One she gets some hours, she'll be good
That was a very common problem on both my Vermeer and Ditch Witch back fill blades.. Those only reason I can "ASSUME" this happens is the harsh amount of push/pull on those pins, that the friction of the casting width, vs the width of the combined double shear side, well, the pin ends up twisting with the A-frame, especially on the downwards direction on load, causing a cam action due to the pin now twisting in sinc with the blades A-frame. the locking flat of the pin, pushed the one side out, doing a shearing action on the bolt. If the hydraulic ram had more room to be mounted less horizontal, or to say, if it was mounted more vertical, the pressure on the whole system would be on the ram, and not on a cantilevered stressed system. Not that you do not already know this but, the ram, being mounted horizontally, or parallel with the back fill blade's A-frame, the linear action of the of ram, is trying to push the whole A-frame away from the main super structure of the truck assembly. The whole theory of "path of least resistance" game show, that yes, the result, is the break-away action from the linear movement of ram, is redirected downwards, blah.. blah...blah.. but is doing so, the massive amount of force on those two loc-pins, in frictional force. What I did to "TRY" to rectify the issue, machined the loc-pins slots much deeper, to the scissor action from the locking plate has a wider foot print. New loc-pin plates wee needed to me made, (which is not a big deal) and the twisting action of the pins stopped, and the A-frame then twisted on the pin, not the other way around. grade 2 bolts were all that was used. Never sheared those again. The loc-pins machined slots, are not load-bearing, so if you machine the slots half way through, to get the widest footprint of the slots, which is gonna require a whole lot more twisting torque to overcome that cam action and pushing / scissoring the back side bolts off, as it only happens in the one direction, again, under load downwards direction.. well, simply, 3 to 4 times having to deal with that, before I modified the loc-pins's slots deeper, to the slot is wider, problem was solved. at the beginning, I was only HOPING it would fix this, but, at the end, it did fix the issue.. I hope that helps.
I’ve made longer pins, drilled a 1/2”keeper hole using large washers to hold the pin in place (1/2” grade 5 with stover for keeper). It can spin all day and wear the bushing if anything. Common problem on larger machines too.
It's the same locking "nongineering" kind on New-Holland TG series (some CaseIH Magnum too) and these always break.... guess what.... this locks the front axle's main pivot's pin (2"-3/4 dia). We're just right now remounting the whole front-axle after a complete overhaul. The pivot-pin will be lock with double-L brackets on both side of the tab welded on the head of the pin (can't be lock from the other end). These brackets would be held to the frame with 4 bolts (2 on each brackets), tapped into the frame (5/8" or 3/4") If we had a milling-machine, would be easy to make a round 5" x 1" thick cap with a groove in it allowing for the tab (rectangular welded head-pin) to at least rotate 1 or 2 degrees. If we had a lathe though, I would machine the master pin to fit the kind of lockers I saw on 966 series Cat payloader's bucket.... I'm sure they have a locker that would fit a 2"-3/4 dia. pin/shaft. (or better) ;)
If you call a Deere dealership they can run the serial number for any PIPs. Something like that may fall under a fix as fail or there may be an alternative part for "extreme use". A-lot of the PIPs can be done on a machine even if the warranty is out so long as it isn't expired and as the dealer will get paid so they will happily provide the parts. About 10 years ago I worked on a 60G that had been rolled down a bank and if I remember right some of the pins I replaced did away with the set up you have and went to a welded tab and single retainer bolt. If I'm remembering wrong don't crucify me. After 20 years and thousands of pieces of machinery shit tends to run together and get mixed up in the old memory banks. Also those probably sheared because the pins stuck. The single tab ones will do the same thing. You could always try a grade 10.8 and see where the next weak link lies.
Have had/seen same issue on pretty much any equipment that uses a bolt to retain a plate like that. Longer pins with bolts through them so they can rotate helps.
reminds me of the pins on a few bobcats. it's only a handful of years/models but those pins wear out painfully quick. especially if the owner doesn't grease 'em. then it's practically a magic trick how fast they dissappear.
One could argue since it's a Deere, it might get fixed in a software patch.. ..sadly, it's just a yellow Hiscratchi, so it won't be fixed at all. In the olden days, while small Volvo wheelloaders were still called Zettelmeyer, they had the same retaining feature on most big pins in the loader assembly. This probably worked just fine for but a moment, until the pins seized up and began rotating along with the loader arms or the tilt arms and leveraged those keepers, snapping the bolts clean off. n Now with the 300 pound blind gorilla behind the wheel it was just a whiff and a bang until the pins wobbled their way out and you had some welding and boring on your hands.
our dealer has been absolutely excellent about warranty work. i would talk to the field service manager of your local dealer providing it has a warranty (130) hrs it should. they offer some good insight often
Possibly the fasteners that are broken off were overtightened to start with. Perhaps past their yield point. There are products out there that lock the head of the bolt. They are hexagon in shape and go over the head of the bolt and are fastened with another small, think 6 mm fastener to hold it from rotating.
yeah this is a problem with one of our assemblies at my company, the only solution we have found is that we just weld the bolts through our assembly but doesn't look possibly for the placement of both of those. That or (and this was explained to me in passing so i might mess this explanation up) a screw only fastens depending on the threads per inch, I would recommend increasing the bolt sizes tho
are the bolts breaking or walking out? could you put higher grade bolts? obviously Welding it will secure it but future maintenance will be a bit of a pain
Reminds me of when farmers put grade 8 bolts in the hay bailers flywheel where the Shear pin previously was. Like it's supposed to Shear for a reason. Maybe the issue is somewhere else guys
Get rid of the tabs. Use your CNC mill to make headed 4140 pins with threaded keeper nut on the other side. Retain the keeper nut with a hefty cotter pin or bolt in a through drilled hole through the nut and pin so that the pin is just a little loose so it doesn't bind
I may be fairly late to the discussion but could you machine a hole on both sides to tap and put bushed caps on there? it would limit the torsion applied directly to the holding mechanism and would wear the bushing rather than the pin or machine.
1:07 Metric Fasteners hard to find in the biggest member state of the Commonwealth. Specailly on Saturdays when I have time to run around looking for one
Usually lack of lubrication breaks retaining bolts. For some reason they are only happy when you can't even look at them without getting covered in grease.
Do not worry about precious bankers; they can slither about like weasels! TSB stated---'and I quote' "Likely it is micro displacement of the double-sprung, reversible jig-back shiv" "He is the kinda man that makes joints move in both directions and that scares me" Ice Harvest
my suggestion would be to weld a top plate to the pin with two holes in it to align with the keeper plate holes. it can't go deeper because of the cap, and it won't go the other way because of the bolts.
It's a John deere, they'll fix it in the next software patch.
Next software patch will remove the functionality entirely, so you do not need to fix it!
It just needs more DEF
Maybe, but you'll have to haul it all the way to Hollywood for that (or some other obscure location where the next Oh-Dear dealership is). Over-the-air-updates? What are we, a phone company?
As long as you better not try to fix it yourself....
That’s funny as 4311
I’m a maintenance supervisor in a steel mill. Many of our pins are retained this way and it is a design/engineering flaw. Pin seized in the clevis, when you raise the blade the notch in the pin levers the keepers and breaks the bolts. Solution was to machine the notch in the pin the full circumference so the pin can rotate if needed.
This is the best solution I've heard so far
So this IS a feature - when it self-destructs you know you were getting lax with the grease gun.
As Don has described, it doesn’t require a huge amount of torque turning those pins to exert a huge shear force to those tab retaining bolts. A short arc of movement coupled with a tendency to neglect the lubrication of the dozer blade pivots (obviously in favour of the arm and slew turntable) will soon result in problems with this fixing method.
Bingo.
Why am i thinking of half inch thick C- or E-clips now?
As an enginerd, I can tell ya that’s not a design flaw…that’s a “feature”!
Something AvE should have payed extra for! 😂
Get him outa here!!!!!!! lol just kidding admitting you have a problem is the fist step to recovery…..
Winner!!!!!
And that mentality came straight from Cat of the early 2000s; the "Downsize til we can't downsize no more; then subcontract the stuff." Luckily after my time. I'd hate to be connected to a sticker company that it's turned into today. Just one step above G.M.
As another enginerd, I can tell ya that's not JUST a "feature" but additional job security. I'm working on the software fix for that problem right now. We are thinking bluetooth pins.
Check if you have the right to repair first.
@@Brent-ln9bc ghost high capacity vehicle that can be used for peacefully protesting
Happened to both our cats!
I ended up just welding the tab onto the pin! Funnily enough the replacement pins have the tab welded on 😂
some brilliant engineer comes up with this shit only for the solution to be a weld on tab.
A machine breaking parts in its normal operation and over its service life is normal. Stuff happens.
This kind of damage after 120 hours isn't normal wear and tear.
@@largerPOTATO Breaking, NO! Wearing, wearing out, getting misaligned & then breaking, sure.
Pin is probably 4140. Use lots of pre/post heat when welding or she snaps off easily
@@alro2434 Any time you have a operator in the seat of a piece of equipment, breaking parts is normal unfortunately.
This happens to all my bucket pins running breakers or pulverizers. The 90mm pin tabs break off. I weld big chunks of thick steel to capture the attachment pins and move on with my operating. . . Pretty common really.
The only real honest reply to Ave's question as of yet!
It's interesting that they are breaking. There should not be much force on them as the pin takes all the abuse. Their job is only to hold the pins centered.
I wonder if there is a bad bushing or the guide holes are are out if round.
Had the same problem on 3 point suspension pins on the larger Toro mowers. Bolt would break, and the pin would just walk right outathere.
@@sumduma55 Perhaps there's a friction issue. When the joint rotates it could stick and put torque on the pin. The pin will then push the retainer up and shear the bolt.
@@jerzmacow it's possible. But that would mean lack of lube or bushing problems. I don't even know if that model has bushings in that joint. Worn bushings or out of round holes can put excess pressure causing much the same forces though. It can also cause the action you described.
The blades on those mimi excavators are only used to artificially extend the wheel/track length and stabilize the unit when digging or going up hills. As small as they are, they can tip rather easily when digging or leaning backwards over the counter weight. Some people will use them as a backstop for whatever they are digging but you will typically tear up the teeth on the bucket before the blade. At least in my experience. You can do some light pushing with them but it shouldn't be treated as a dozer blade or anything.
You are correct to assume there is a larger problem than just the bolt shearing off. I guess the question is where that problem is.
The fix is more cowbell, obviously.
Would a donk do?
@@beauchamphuberville1355 no but two shmeckles of malarkey marinated in a cambro full of shmoo for a fortnight aughta work.
Don't forget to add the shmutz last tho.
This may require the fabrication on a new copper/brass swing press.
on with a tree skeleton (technically a carbon fibre material) handle?
More cowbell indeed.....
The pin is twisting when the blade is used as an outrigger. The fulcrum is so close to the center of the pin, it acts as a rotary wedge. Welding that strap to the pin will give the bolts a fighting chance.
at a curiosity, how much forces is involved here? would making 2 bolts in the pin rectify the issue?
My experience is you either weld or use bolts, but not both at the same part to fix something. If it goes wrong, you'll break both weld and bolt (unsure what will go first, but if one goes, the other will snap quickly after).
A solution would be to make 2 full caps, one for each side. Tap 4 holes in the base metal to fix each cap and shorten the pin so it will be able to rotate free in the socket, trapping it inside.
Might need to add a grease nipple somewhere to prevent it from running dry.
As a certified farmricobbler I have found with pins sometimes it's best to let them float side to side a little so what I typically do is weld a washer to one side then drill and tap the other end and use a heavy washer and lock washer and/or loctite to capture the pin. Never done it on an excavator, but hope this helps.
Lack of maintenance will giveth floating pins and taketh floating pins
Wish in one hand and shat in the other
Not a good idea to do it. The pin needs to be fixed, so it only moves on brondze/steel bushing, that wears out with time and can get changed. If the pin is not fixed - it will eventualy maul out the holes on fixed side and repair of those is a lot more expensive than changing a bushing.
Factory recall😂 as soon as they saw that counterweight round the corner, you is in your own. Sticky pin, loose bolt. You do the math. Couple hundred cycles and she’s dickered! It was in failure mode right from dealer assembly and pdi that you paid for.
Time for the hot metal glue gun!
Whatever you do don't fix it yourself. John Deere can do it for 8 times the cost and with the same genuine junk they gave you in the first place. Right to repair...FJD.
My 2c. Pins for heavy equipment always want to turn with the movement of the pivot. If you prevent the rotation, the moment to much dirt or rust gets in there and it binds, it will put a hell of a lot of force through the weakest link. That pin cutout is a bit of a cam shape allowing it to put a lot more force on the retaining clip and shearing the bolt if that pin binds and moves with plow.
A simple fix would be to throw it in a lathe and machine out that groove all around the pin so that lateral movement is constrained but it is free to rotate and will no longer cause the bolts to sheer off.
Perhaps the pin is not rotating with respect to the machine, because they want to limit all the wear to the pin and the impliment.
The point of that tab is not only to keep the pin in, but also stop it from spinning. If the pin spins or moves it will wallow out the hole in the plate.
Just grease the shit out of it regulary and replace the pin once in an eternity when it wears out.
@@hoakuroija1089 @Hoakuroija That is likely true to a certain extent, however most operators I've known prefer pins that don't fall out over machines that goes 10% longer before needing to line bore the pivots which is controlled more by the quality of greasing and pin and bushing material selection rather than pin movement anyway. Some pins have a tab welded to them that is bolted or welded to the frame to secure it, but I've seen those break too especially with high contamination, high load applications, like an excavator blade pivot.
If it truly wasn't supposed to pivot, they could have secured it a lot better but if you look at the design, it was clearly designed to prevent lateral movement and not designed to prevent or account for any substantial amount of rotation force causing it to fail whenever the pivot became stiff which would be something a designer trying to reduce wear would be aware of.
I understand your point, but having a dirty blade pivot result in the machine falling apart is a design flaw. While you could try to design a stronger retainer for the pin to prevent a tiny amount of potential additional wear, the rotational forces that can be transferred to a locked pin are huge and the simplest solution is to allow it to rotate.
This makes a lot of sense. Good idea.
Nothing better than watching the sun rise on a chilly morning, sipping a hot expresso inside my brand new escavator.
This even happens on our 30 ton cat, 2020 Nex Gen 330 Caterpillar has pins similar to this, bolt threads into the hole.. if its not greased daily the main bucket pin walks and bends the arm the bolt is connected to.. but if greased properly it doesnt bend.. 7-8k pin lol
Hmm, I guess that's why there's a grease fitting there lol.
Judging by the undirty schmoo, I’d say it was recently greased prior to the the finding of a walking pin
Hence why I fit autolube systems 🤣
@@markdahshark3694 Some of the schmoo looked good but the grease fitting was dirty so it probably wasn't greased that recently.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 taking a second glance I’d tend to agree.
I would weld a short piece of flat bar to the steel plate, above the retainer bar so it could not rotate up and shear the bolt. That way you could still remove the pin by removing the two screws and drifting out the retainer bar or driving out the pin. Its interesting there is enough torsional force on the pin to cause that? Maybe there is a misalignment in those pins.
@@kjdude8765 And make the groove go all around the pin to make sure that the plate and bolts don't get any shear force.
Best answer I have seen so far!
I'd say a misalingment of the pin and the ram axis so that too much sideways force is applied. A design problem so it doesn't matter where it's made.
@@kjdude8765 I wanted it to be combined with an arm that prevents rotation.
That is a fine upgrade. Now it’s custom. You can’t buy it like that.
Remember when you tested those battery powered grease guns? Use them on your equipment 😂
I think he broke them all putting them back together. 🤣
That's the first excavator I've seen with side shift on the scraper, pretty cool option, so long as it's not my machine
It's designed to encourage you to weld it in, hence invalidating your warranty
@AvE - Two options...1) Send it to me...I fix, 2) Bring me to it...I fix....Could do with a break from the South of Afrique...;)
Getting a metric fastener on a Saturday? No problem. Greetings from Germany. 😂
I know that sometimes they introduce points of failure to protect machines from worse damage. For example, I was told on ploughs there is a fastener that breaks before you rip off all the plowshares. No idea if this qualifies as such a designed failure introduction; I actually have difficulty imagining that there.
shear pins on pto shafts for roterytillers is a great example, instead of that rock you hit destroying your engine, it breaks a cheep pin instead
this one has 10.9 steel fasteners, though. Unlikely they picked higher graded one just to be a weak point.
On the commercial brand Walker lawnmowers, the cutting blades are attached with small bolts to a steel cup which break if the blades hit something hard like a tree stump. Those bolts are 'sacrificed' to save the blade-driving gearbox from damage.
There is no reason to have that be a weak point. Having the pin walk out would cause a lot of damage if you didn't notice it, way more than you could hurt the machine by using the blade hard.
@@joeylawn36111 Lol, that only works on one side because the spindle nuts are both regular threads, hit something hard enough on the other side the spindle nut tightens and detonates the gearbox, I’ve seen 2 exploded walker deck gear boxes on a machine with 4500 hours on the other 2 deck gear boxes. Also walkers are a right bitch to grease… *shudders* way too many fucking oil reservoirs and grease points, on a MT with a hi-dump 8 oil reservoirs and ~40 grease fittings.
"One stick and two hands", I didn't know you are a pilot. Be easy on your joystick when flying alone.
Can cause blindness if stick is used incorrectly.
Just like my dear old Father told me "Big Watch, Big Wallet, Big..... Stick". Or was it Small Hands? Blue skies Dad.
Whenever I start equipment at work I do the same thing he does. "Hello skid-steer....Hello Paver" lol
We make large earth moving equipment. On smaller machines the 'tab' head style pins retained with a bolt were fine for decades. However, now most of our pins have a hex head on one end with the inverse hex stop welded to the machine. The opposite end of the pin has a 3-hole cap with SHCS or HHCS to secure it pin place and prevent it from rotating. There is more machining involved and a larger BoM but totally worth it -- for RADIAL force applications, not Axial/Thrust.
Turn a shoulder pin with external threads on the non shouldered side, cross drilled for a castle nut and a captured pin. and a big ass washer. Or use HPHT as usual.
This is the way.
This is the way.
Aw yeah, first thing I thought was "shoulder bolt". This would be a good choice for Uncle B's hardrock gold ore pulverizer too. (In addition to the lock nuts.)
I like the farting bricks button on the control panel.
Worked on all kinds of equipment, line boring and healing ills. In my opinion, if you want it to be healed forever, make new pins out of 4140 or 4340, with a 1/2" thick integral washer head.
Mill one side flat, and weld a square stock retainer on the ear tight against the washer head. . Make the pin greaseable, drill into the length, intersect in the center and add a spiral groove on the OD with sufficient depth to ensure grease flows throughout the bushing.
Use a thin, moly EP1 grease, and grease the snot out of it. Petro Precision XL MOLY 5 EP1 is what I would recommend. The blade isn't high velocity or cycling a lot. Maybe even step down to a EP0. Want that to flow like water to ensure the whole bushing to pin interface is covered.
Mixing grease thickeners can give you plenty of issues too.
The design worked perfectly on the drawing board. Since the pin couldn't move in two directions at once, there had to be a twisting moment to shear the bolts.
I have the exact same machine. 3 years old 1600 hours. Zero blade pin issues. 🤷🏼♂️
A tube of grease a day keeps the problems away
Amazing. My favorite motto: never blame the equipment, always blame the operator (current and past).
Been in the equipment rental business a while, specializing in John Deeres too.
Never seen that, especially with such low hours. The real design flaw is that with the blade fully raised and stick curled in there is interference between the blade and the bucket, so if you are facing backwards and rotate the gantry too quickly you will damn near break the blade right off.
I assume that is what happened and it somehow side loaded the hardware holding on the pin locking plates.
Or the torque gun they used for the hardware had a bad day. Built on a Friday
Friday afternoon, monday morning. Same same, only different...
After reading all the comments that I should I see that only one is close to a proper fix and Fabricobbling! Here’s what I Did with 3 pins on a 1969-1971 ish Case 480CK Construction King.
After all it was well worn out and I rescued it from the junk yard.
I made Doughnuts 🍩 for at least one end of the pins got pins from the JD dealer that had a Take me home now price beneath 3/4” of dust on a back of the showroom wall. They fit tighter than the worn out ones, but they stuck out a bit more so I turned some 4”Diameter doughnuts. And they were 1-1/2” thick with a 1-1/4 hole. Then I put that in my Mill and flattened two opposite sides and Drilled 5/16” holes through it aligned the holes in the pin and doughnuts, then Put a 5” long Grade 8 bolt lock washer and a pair of nuts with another lock washer between them. The owners sold it for close to 10k the Extend-A-Hoe valve pack was the last thing wrong with it and a few of remaining old Hoses. It was almost impossible to steer when I drove it home to work on... but when it was returned you could steer it with your pinky finger. All the lights worked plus the additional work lights I installed. Single wire Alternator, remote jumper attachments for Positive and Negative, and a entirely new battery Box. Replaced the Cutting edge on the Bucket, and most of the wiring. Some one got a great machine! I kinda miss all the fabricobbeling, even added additional hydraulic oil filter just before the new Hydraulic pump, and it was only lacking that big valve Body that was worn out. It would work but if you expected it to pass a leak down test it would fail. 5 cylinders of the 10, I had rebuilt, and hoses were replaced with new. Loved this machine! Volunteer wages and dug my pond 😃
The pin is designed to be static. The arm of the blade probably has a replaceable hard bushing, while the ears are mild steel. The pin is harder than the ear, but softer than the bushing. This makes the wear point the pin to bushing interface, with a bias for the pin to wear first. The ears on the frame are not bushed, and allowing the pin to rotate will wear them. Not fun to weld and line bore that point. A previous post suggested a keeper block welded beside the removable plate. Good idea! The block takes the shear force caused by the pin twisting, and the bolts just keep plate in position with clamping force. No more shear force on the bolts
Pin seizure in the bore during blade down operation. Pin rotation put upward shear load on the rear retainer bolt. Cut a radial groove all the way around the Pin instead of just a segment. No more shear on the bolt when the pin seizes.
@@benjurqunov By tab, do you mean the simple piece of flat stock with 2 holes in it?
John Deere recall means you engineer and execute the fix and they will reimburse you with higher interest on your next purchase 😂
From what I remember from the John Deere rep, the repair man should be on his way already.
Frankly, I'm surprised he hasn't been by yet.
If it ain't broke, he's got an extended warranty you forgot to pay for.
When that style of keeper breaks bolts like that it’s usually from the pin sticking or being seized and when you run the implement it “cams” on that small plate and shears off the bolt. Might have something to do with the low hours… low hours but how old is it? does it do a lot of sitting? Maybe the pins started to freeze up at some point and canned over and broke the bolts, then freed up again with some use?
Sounds like you're right from perusing the comments and noticing the grease fitting for the pin. Apparently they tend to do this if not greased regularly the pin cams over and breaks it.
This ^
This! I worked at a Deere dealership for 7 years. They would shear off when they didn’t get greased enough. Grease your pins every 8 hour shift and you won’t have any issues with it!
Big yup to this one. Could also increase the bolt grade or size. That pin is much larger and looks hardened so IMO the bolt would have to be way bigger before the pin or eyelets become the weak point. Looks like the bolt and pin should see similar shear force when that pin rotates based on the geometry.
Need more AvE videos in my life! Lost your sub in my original YT account and was so stoked to find you in my recommended videos last week. Glad to have you back in my sub list!
If you have the length, drill a hole, inch or whatever from each end through the cross section of the pin. Install pin, metal shim on each side. 3/4ish bolt on each side. Eyeball it. I also use shims to tighten up the boom, stick and bucket and h-link and quick coupler. get it within like 3/16”ish of play . You can also shave off or flatten off the ears and mating surface that pins pass through to help square things up.
Very common for a lot of Deere equipment, seen the same problem with the same style keepers on their dozers. However on the dozers the keeper tab is a thru bolt and not tapped. Is it an option to thru bolt it or can’t you get to the other end?
what i've done to fix this issue is to weld a piece of square stock against the retainer that will prevent the retainer from rotating in a way to sheer the bolts. 1/2"-3/4" square welded on 2 sides against the retainer so the only way for the pin to come out would be to unbolt the retainer. repair has held up fine. also did the exact same repair on a 0 hour machine which has not had this issue in 2 years of service. mind you, i have broken other things lol
Late for supper! You got all the shmoo you can handle.
So being in the hay baling business going on over 22 years now. I recount my second year into it with the second new round baler from Deere. Ran the first bale fine. The second bale was being spun up when I got a door alarm, and noticed that the belts seemed to be smoking. It was probably 3/4's to size, and thought maybe the gate didn't latch all the way. No biggie i thought, just stop and eject the bale. Well, as soon as I tried to kick it out the whole rig burst into flames on account of getting the oxygen every good fire needs. I jumped out and immediately got the pto detached, and tried to drive away from the baler, but the damn safety chains were keepin her following my tractor. Luckily there was a shallow pond in the field which I headed directly towards. The water didn't save me and the tractor, but the soft bottom of the pond did. I must've put the PTO shaft 6 feet under which broke the safety chains clean into this saving the tractor. Insurance guy came out, and the fault was from the factory. One of the rolling bars that the belts ride around had not a single bolt holding it. Just the green paint to hold it's connection in place... 😂. Moral of the story? Don't use the safety chains.
Forgot to mention that I dodged death again a few minutes later when one of the hydraulic cylinders that lift the gate up and down got so hot it sent the ram straight towards me like a missile. Luckily I was young then and had quite a vertical leap.
Farming is dangerous...
Dangerous but fun.......
I recommend the tried and true method of stripping it all down to parts, looking at them in confusion, putting it all back together, and placing the one left-over part on a shelf somewhere, never to be found again.
1:57 mmmm forbidden raspberry jelly.
Loved the Dutch speak, could understand the video a bit more! 😂👍
Do you use the blade to push? How often? A problem that I encountered years ago was trying to do too much with the blade and using the blade to level the machine. A small gob of weld on the one side of the retainer seemed to help. But also using the blade less and the bucket more never had a problem after that
It's no secret the angry pixies get all hot and bothered at the mere thought of melting metal.
To get back on their good side, you might need to sacrifice that pin to them.
Looks like the assembler forgot the Back it Off a Quarter-turn. A Monday morning rig for sure get rid of it while you can
I know this feeling. We have a Mexico built JD tractor that has its pins fuck off every other Saturday too.
A chuckle an a fuckwit what a combo 🤣
Pins moving around is a common problem, like others have commented. The machine could also have been abused. The mining company I used to work for would buy undersized loaders and then decide they couldn't move enough and put bigger buckets on them. Then when they became too light and the ass ends would stand up in the air the company would just stick on more counterweights on the back. Then they would come back and bitch at the manufacturer about all the bent frames, broken center pins and bent cylinder rods.
Weld a washer on one end, bolt a washer on the other. Needs to be free to pivot, or it will free itself as you can see.
John Deere never recalls anything. They have the “Product Improvement Plan”, or PIP as techs and service writers usually refer to it. As a former JD mobile service tech, I used to do all sorts of PIP installs. The idea is JD looks like they care and are taking care of your purchase, rather than admitting they sent out a poorly engineered product. More about preserving their image and saving money than anything.
As an extractor fan (used to be a farmer) this is very common when the pins get a bit of rust on them from sitting over winter...weld a BAW (big ass washer) to one end and drill the other end for a linch pin and leave the main pin floating..no grease all the crap just sticks to it and Waller's out the holes.
I believe you meant to say a bfw…
The question to solve is what was the failure mode for those bolt heads. My guess is overtightened, which stretched the free threads inside that retaining tab. There doesn't seem to be anything that could apply lateral force to side load the bolt or the lock tab for a shearing force. The retaining tabs don't look deformed like they got pushed out enough to pop the bolt heads, and the outer bolt heads were still in place on both sides.
Nothing runs away like a deere
yep just weld the stop plate to the pin. I loved Japan. I went in 95-96 as the first American-Japanese home building project. We taught them how to frame American style. It was kind of a big deal, Walter Mondale and the SS came to visit the site in Sendi. What a culture shock!
an american teaching japanese carpenters how to built homes??
joking, right?
I have just joined the Deere John Cult myself. Such is life...I guess.
I see three solutions. The no modification solution is to remove the broken bolt and Locktite a bolt into the pin leaving it loose so the pin and bolt can rotate. Another option is to weld the tab to the pin. The final option is to rotate that tab so that the pin can not come out and tighten the bolt. Make a similar tab tap the frame and bolt the tab on so that the pin can't come out the other end. Welding the tab to the pin will prevent rotation of the pin so that all of the wear is on the arm of the blade which probably has a replaceable bushing, is probably the only part getting lubricated, and prevent the frame holes from wearing.
make headed pin with sturdy locking mechanism on other side? That locking system is just cute
I’ve got a couple John Deere 325g skid steers and the pin bracket bolts break all the time, and the pins walk out on the arms for the attachment plate. John Deere wouldn’t warranty them, they wouldn’t even warranty the pins that snapped in half, they said we abused them and sold us new parts that broke within 20 hours. But the pin brackets I just welded those, nothing a grinder can’t fix if they need to come out.
Look at that fancy grease. They really expected it to stay lubricated at all times.
The boltholes are to tight so that the pin can’t move. The answer is bigger holes and stepped bolts so that the locker-bar is loose on the bolts.
Always good content!
Any elechickens borrow your excavator? Dewclaw!
Cut to suit, beat to fit, paint to match. Standard workorder. Did i mention i was a millwright in the paper industry. Washer on one side drill out bolts, rethread for a common size, rinse and repeat
No idea on recalls, but a common system I have seen is a tear drop shaped plate on one end of the pin with a single bolt for retention. Also, a longer pin with a larger head and a through-bolt or pin of some sort for retention.
Should have bought an American Deere made right down the street from me! Just kidding, Japan really does some skookum work! Love the place! Wanna visit there at some point!
Hey on a different note. What’s the chance of a boltr on the new Milwaukee m18 inflator?
that is why Curtis over at Cutting Edge engineering does the captive pine mod to the big excavators.
Got a link to the video where he does this by chance? Interesting to see what he does.
Pins trying to rotate. Lack of grease! Tight factory joint (new) not allowing grease to migrate all around. Grind some little trace grooves around with a death wheel and half the grease interval for a while. One she gets some hours, she'll be good
That was a very common problem on both my Vermeer and Ditch Witch back fill blades.. Those only reason I can "ASSUME" this happens is the harsh amount of push/pull on those pins, that the friction of the casting width, vs the width of the combined double shear side, well, the pin ends up twisting with the A-frame, especially on the downwards direction on load, causing a cam action due to the pin now twisting in sinc with the blades A-frame. the locking flat of the pin, pushed the one side out, doing a shearing action on the bolt. If the hydraulic ram had more room to be mounted less horizontal, or to say, if it was mounted more vertical, the pressure on the whole system would be on the ram, and not on a cantilevered stressed system. Not that you do not already know this but, the ram, being mounted horizontally, or parallel with the back fill blade's A-frame, the linear action of the of ram, is trying to push the whole A-frame away from the main super structure of the truck assembly. The whole theory of "path of least resistance" game show, that yes, the result, is the break-away action from the linear movement of ram, is redirected downwards, blah.. blah...blah.. but is doing so, the massive amount of force on those two loc-pins, in frictional force.
What I did to "TRY" to rectify the issue, machined the loc-pins slots much deeper, to the scissor action from the locking plate has a wider foot print. New loc-pin plates wee needed to me made, (which is not a big deal) and the twisting action of the pins stopped, and the A-frame then twisted on the pin, not the other way around. grade 2 bolts were all that was used. Never sheared those again. The loc-pins machined slots, are not load-bearing, so if you machine the slots half way through, to get the widest footprint of the slots, which is gonna require a whole lot more twisting torque to overcome that cam action and pushing / scissoring the back side bolts off, as it only happens in the one direction, again, under load downwards direction.. well, simply, 3 to 4 times having to deal with that, before I modified the loc-pins's slots deeper, to the slot is wider, problem was solved. at the beginning, I was only HOPING it would fix this, but, at the end, it did fix the issue.. I hope that helps.
For a moment I though there was a Dirt Perfect crossover looming!
I’ve made longer pins, drilled a 1/2”keeper hole using large washers to hold the pin in place (1/2” grade 5 with stover for keeper). It can spin all day and wear the bushing if anything. Common problem on larger machines too.
Engineering is the art of designing components to wear at a rate to make it just past the warranty.
@2:00 somebody ain't gettin' no sugar tonight!
It's the same locking "nongineering" kind on New-Holland TG series (some CaseIH Magnum too) and these always break.... guess what.... this locks the front axle's main pivot's pin (2"-3/4 dia). We're just right now remounting the whole front-axle after a complete overhaul. The pivot-pin will be lock with double-L brackets on both side of the tab welded on the head of the pin (can't be lock from the other end). These brackets would be held to the frame with 4 bolts (2 on each brackets), tapped into the frame (5/8" or 3/4")
If we had a milling-machine, would be easy to make a round 5" x 1" thick cap with a groove in it allowing for the tab (rectangular welded head-pin) to at least rotate 1 or 2 degrees.
If we had a lathe though, I would machine the master pin to fit the kind of lockers I saw on 966 series Cat payloader's bucket.... I'm sure they have a locker that would fit a 2"-3/4 dia. pin/shaft. (or better) ;)
You are supposed to let those rust in place so that can't happen, tell the young lad to take it easy with the grease gun.
If you call a Deere dealership they can run the serial number for any PIPs. Something like that may fall under a fix as fail or there may be an alternative part for "extreme use". A-lot of the PIPs can be done on a machine even if the warranty is out so long as it isn't expired and as the dealer will get paid so they will happily provide the parts. About 10 years ago I worked on a 60G that had been rolled down a bank and if I remember right some of the pins I replaced did away with the set up you have and went to a welded tab and single retainer bolt. If I'm remembering wrong don't crucify me. After 20 years and thousands of pieces of machinery shit tends to run together and get mixed up in the old memory banks.
Also those probably sheared because the pins stuck. The single tab ones will do the same thing. You could always try a grade 10.8 and see where the next weak link lies.
Call up "I C weld", time for a long road trip.
Or send it to Cutting Edge Engineering. Kurtis, Karen and Homeless The Safety Officer will sort it once and for all.
Have had/seen same issue on pretty much any equipment that uses a bolt to retain a plate like that. Longer pins with bolts through them so they can rotate helps.
reminds me of the pins on a few bobcats. it's only a handful of years/models but those pins wear out painfully quick. especially if the owner doesn't grease 'em. then it's practically a magic trick how fast they dissappear.
Is the pin bent? Seems like a pin not jiving issue but im not sure on equipment that large
One could argue since it's a Deere, it might get fixed in a software patch..
..sadly, it's just a yellow Hiscratchi, so it won't be fixed at all.
In the olden days, while small Volvo wheelloaders were still called Zettelmeyer, they had the same retaining feature on most big pins in the loader assembly.
This probably worked just fine for but a moment, until the pins seized up and began rotating along with the loader arms or the tilt arms and leveraged those keepers, snapping the bolts clean off.
n
Now with the 300 pound blind gorilla behind the wheel it was just a whiff and a bang until the pins wobbled their way out and you had some welding and boring on your hands.
our dealer has been absolutely excellent about warranty work. i would talk to the field service manager of your local dealer providing it has a warranty (130) hrs it should. they offer some good insight often
dig it starnes had the same issue with his skid steer on the bucket pin I wonder if its an across the board issue
Possibly the fasteners that are broken off were overtightened to start with. Perhaps past their yield point. There are products out there that lock the head of the bolt. They are hexagon in shape and go over the head of the bolt and are fastened with another small, think 6 mm fastener to hold it from rotating.
yeah this is a problem with one of our assemblies at my company, the only solution we have found is that we just weld the bolts through our assembly but doesn't look possibly for the placement of both of those. That or (and this was explained to me in passing so i might mess this explanation up) a screw only fastens depending on the threads per inch, I would recommend increasing the bolt sizes tho
are the bolts breaking or walking out? could you put higher grade bolts? obviously Welding it will secure it but future maintenance will be a bit of a pain
Aussie Law #1
Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can put off 'til the day after.
Word.
as an operator, i'd say it's broke
Weld the retainer plate to the top of the broken stud. Use the retainer to twist loose the bolt after you find a replacement bolt next year -Haha!
I'd be tempted to look for/ modify a shoulder bolt (stripper bolt) that matches the dimensions.
Reminds me of when farmers put grade 8 bolts in the hay bailers flywheel where the Shear pin previously was. Like it's supposed to Shear for a reason. Maybe the issue is somewhere else guys
Get rid of the tabs. Use your CNC mill to make headed 4140 pins with threaded keeper nut on the other side. Retain the keeper nut with a hefty cotter pin or bolt in a through drilled hole through the nut and pin so that the pin is just a little loose so it doesn't bind
I may be fairly late to the discussion but could you machine a hole on both sides to tap and put bushed caps on there? it would limit the torsion applied directly to the holding mechanism and would wear the bushing rather than the pin or machine.
1:07 Metric Fasteners hard to find in the biggest member state of the Commonwealth. Specailly on Saturdays when I have time to run around looking for one
Usually lack of lubrication breaks retaining bolts. For some reason they are only happy when you can't even look at them without getting covered in grease.
Kickin back hard . . .pin not taking the load . . . both back bolts . . . .horizontal play on the pin ?
Do not worry about precious bankers; they can slither about like weasels! TSB stated---'and I quote' "Likely it is micro displacement of the double-sprung, reversible jig-back shiv" "He is the kinda man that makes joints move in both directions and that scares me" Ice Harvest
my suggestion would be to weld a top plate to the pin with two holes in it to align with the keeper plate holes. it can't go deeper because of the cap, and it won't go the other way because of the bolts.