I'm usually self conscious about how my voice sounds when I speak through a microphone , it sounds higher in pitch than what it sounds like to my own ears without a mic , but after hearing mark give such a confident impassioned speech it makes me feel like my own voice doesn't stop me from speaking with confidence. And I loved his message truly awe inspiring.
The problem he is pointing out is, I believe, especially aimed at the "younger" generation or my generation. I am 17, and every time some girl learns I'm gay, they say things like "OMG! I always wanted a gay best friend". The problem with this is that young gay men, like myself, are trying to find who we are as a person, and these girls are being taught by things such as Teen Vogue to tokenize us as one sort of person. And not even as a person but as a thing, a accessory they must have. They expect us to all love and be in the know on fashion, which personally I have no clue what's trendy and what looks hot, amongst other stereotypes, and that is not all gay men. Sure some men really fit the stereotypes, but that doesn't change the fact that as he said "Person. Mark." They are a person regardless and shouldn't be tokenized because they fit the GBF stereotypes. And while some people say it is easy to find who you are while maintaining a relationship like that, they are really dreaming about how it really affects young people. Everything people say has a big impact and this is a big influence on them. At the standard level, having a GBF has become a status statement like saying "oh i'm not racist because I have black friends". Having a GBF as a token does not make you any less homophobic. Whether you treat them as a person equal to you or not does, or have some people lost sight of what equality really means. This tokenization goes against the whole idea behind gay rights and people are saying "oh we can use it to gain rights, then be who we are". Well that's not the rights we want at all. We want the rights for who we all are right from the get go. We want people to view us as people and not as our sexuality. As a best friend and not a GAY best friend...
There are excessive fanboys too. Most of them are problematic, though sometimes they arent bad. But super stereotyped. I think its good as guilty pleasure if you are aware that its not real life.
The commodification of gay men in China is oftentimes a way for women to avoid discrimination and ridicule. "Leftover Women" is a poor translation from the Chinese phrase 剩女 that means something more like "Women Who Have Been Left Behind" or "The Remaining Women", and the adjective 剩 doesn't modify food like the adjective "leftover" does in English. The phrase refers to a woman who reaches her upper 20's or early 30's and has not yet found a husband, implying she's doomed to die single and be a disappointment to her family. How does this relate to gay commodification? A Chinese woman who has been "left behind" will commonly find a gay man to pretend to be her boyfriend in front of her family or business to help her save face and avoid the ridicule that comes with not getting married and having children by age 28. Hiring managers even discriminate against these women, saying that unmarried women in their 30's lack familial stability and are thus unfit for the workplace. Bottom Line: Be careful citing headlines from different cultures or languages to support your point as these articles may have viewpoints that are unique to the point of being irrelevant to the discussion. =/
Reid Harris Thank you for taking the time to explain this. I honestly had no clue this was still happening. I was under the impression there wasn't enough men to go around. You explained it perfect and could be a TED talk on it's own.
Reid Harris I've heard of something similar in Japan, regarding the first part, attitudes to women in their late twenties and above who are yet to marry. So I was told, they may be referred to as Christmas Cake, since they're useless after the 25th. However, I've lived there twice and been translating Japanese for almost a decade, yet have never seen or heard the term used. So I remain sceptical. It does seem though, that marriage is considered to be hugely important for young women in East Asia in general, which is a shame in my opinion.
In case anyone is curious, "leftover women" in China refer to older women who never settled down and had children, and are often looked down on in Chinese society because of cultural pressures on women to fit the "housewife" role.
As a gay man I think he has a very interesting opinion on the matter. I find myself using other women as a crutch a lot and maybe it isn't the best way to go. But it is much better than 30 years ago where nobody wanted or cared for gay friends. In fact most women and men of the 80s would be disgusted if they found out their friend was gay. I'm sorry but I am just not going to see this as an issue until I know for sure it can't go back to those days, which after getting Mike Pence as Vice President is the scariest thing ever to me. For anyone who doesn't know our vice president believes in electric shock therapy to turn gays back to being straight. It's a bit medieval but that's who we have in office now.
True but in 2013 when this speech was posted he said Bruce Jenner was gay, which is not true because she now identifies as a straight female, and has said that when she was living as a male she was still attracted to men. This speaker said Bruce was gay ie attracted to males before they came out as a trans* female who is attracted to men. So obviously being gay and being trans* are not the same thing, but there's a reason they're included in the same acronym and parts of one larger Queer (umbrella term) community; we share close ties. tldr; speaker said Bruce was attracted to men, Caitlyn admits to being attracted to men
I appreciate the support but sometimes it's best to leave defending these issues to within the community. Plus Jenner is a piece of shit garbage that needs to learn how to shut their fucking mouth.
.he says something that needed to be said and does it so well...creative and thoughtful, beautifully presented..it is wonderful that young gay men don't need a female 'cover' any more..
We are at Stage 5 toward genuine acceptance. It usually goes this way not just with gay people but ALL minority groups that have faced societal maligning by the mainstream & majority: Stage 1. Deny their existence and treat as invisible. Stage 2. Accept existence but only as a threat or negative thing. Stage 3. Allow visibility and some acceptance but only as tragic figures/victims. Stage 4. Allow visibility that is not tragic and offer acceptance not out of sympathy but they must be servile, outrageous and entertaining in exchange. They must NEVER break character to be confrontational ongoing or past injustices. Stage 5. Accept the genuine person, all their flaws, all their diversity, all their complexity and even express support for their struggle BUT in turn they must show gratitude by being willing to be your accessory/token whenever you wan to look "open-minded" and "cool". Stage 6. Unconditionally accept the person and support their right to speak up against injustice and/or add your support simply because it's the right thing to do. You want nothing in return except to be treated with the same basic human decency.
You do realise that most countries are still at stage 2... you know the U.S. and the European Union are just a fraction of the entire world. For example: In China and India it is still at stage 2 and they make 1/3 of the entire world population. Russia, the biggest country in the world by surface, also at stage 2 and don’t get me started on all (without exceptions) muslim states. That means that just a small fraction of LGBT people can enjoy not being extremely oppressed.
@@mikipav1064 - I'm relatively sure by we, she means the USA specifically, or whatever modern country she resides in, else her comment would make literally no sense. Secondly, and I can't tell if it's one way or the other, but if you happen to be saying that it's worse in other countries thus we shouldn't worry about modern countries, to that I simply say "Fallacy of Relative Privation". If this isn't the case though, just ignore the last sentence.
Sure there are bigger issues but commodifying is cheapening patronising and basically belittling so it should be addressed. The media fosters this attitude : the emasculated pet homosexual - as seen in every tv show - it's all nauseating. this all happened with black people and now we are horrified by it - so what's the difference? gay men are not here to make straight women feel better about themselves - we are people in our right - you ask me my opinion and I'll give you the truth - not want you want me to say - if you want an ego massage go somewhere else. Commodifying gay men is destructive and toxic and robs gay men of their dignity so don't trivialise it. I applaud Mark for making this speech. Let's be dignified self respecting human beings and not play into this trivialising crap.
Oh yea, that is the REAL problem, people accepting us and wanting to be our friends. Forget stonewall, losing job, family, house and even being killed. This my dear friends is the problem!
I know a lot of gay men who now prefer to hang out with other guys - both straight and gay - precisely because they feel that many of their friendships with women have been too one-sided and left them feeling used, or that they've felt too often cast into the role of the "gay boyfriend" where they're expected to fulfill all the needs that a boyfriend would fill with the exception of sex. I enjoy having both male and female friends, but it has been a challenge at times with my girl amigos.
This speech would have gotten a c at best in my eighth grade debate class. It is shallow, full of the kind of stereotyping it seems to be arguing against, and truly without an argument for anything. What a shame this was chosen to represent young gay men in the World today.
Context, I imagine. It sounded like neither of them knew the girl and were just minding their own business, in which case it does come off as a little weird.
Frankly if the worst you get called is 'cute', I don't think you have much to worry about or complain about. A more interesting subject would be the commodification of gay men by other gay man.
The first half of the speech got me hooked, and then he lost me (probably somewhere around the rap). I agree that the commercialization of the GBF is an issue, but only because it promotes one-sided relationships and the idea that there is just one type of homosexual (the effeminate gay man who cares only about you and your issues). Outside of this, I think it's pretty normal for women and gay men to seek each other out as natural allies. Women tend to be less judgmental and more open and accepting than straight men and gay men offer a supportive masculine presence that lacks aggressive sexual energy (i.e. we're not trying to get in their pants all the time). The important thing is to make sure your friendships are real friendships. Also, a straight girl calling you and your boyfriend cute is not a problem. I call straight couples cute all the time. Some couples just are. Deal with it and move on.
You're an absolute moron. It's important to reclaim stereotypes, when we want to and when we fit them. Almost no "straight" people *ever* confront their ideas about us if we don't.
Anyone else think the speech didnt really talk about any deeper meaning other than "gbf's are not just gay their so much more than that". Idk i felt as though he just kinda stated a trend and then blamed girls who get gbf's as the problem. Gay boys need to stand up for themselves unless their ok with being treated as a commodity. Its a two lane road
i found his talk vacuous. First world problems for contemporary gays who have no idea of the struggles of their predecessors which allowed them to be so comfortable.
Enzan Takeshita because you gain acceptance.. been there done that... at the end of the day they only seem you as something different and thats why they treat you so well... i just want to be seem as an equal...
I guess but I just naturally enjoy hanging out more with women than I do men. It'd also probably be really awkward having a bunch of friends who you want to bone
Enzan Takeshita just because you're friends with them doesn't mean you're gonna be interested in that way, straight men and women can be just friends who cares if you're interested in their gender doesn't mean you're gonna be attracted to them
Some of what was said here feels necessary but the speech was disorienting. Seems to defeat the purpose if your speech against oversimplifying gay men is riddled with jokes using gay stereotypes. Is humor worth demeaning your argument?
The trouble with friendships that are fashionable is these friends may not be true allies. They are clueless about issues and less likely to support in meaningful ways.
when she said you two were cute she was talking about your faces and personalities, not your clothes. She pays you a compliment and you misinterpret it as a negative. Some people are just determined to misinterpret everything to make it as negative as possible.
I'm gay and this guy is gayer than gay. No offense to my community but if he REALLY wanted to make a point and remove himself from being labeled as the stereotypical gay then he shouldn't have tried to make a connection with the audience by using stereotypical gay remarks in order to be more relatable and likeable. Poor choice.
I would hope he would modify this speech so that his asides aren't so pejorative, particularly the one regarding Caitlyn Jenner. These asides are contradictory to the message he's trying to get across.
This was before Bruce came out as Caitlyn. People were less sensitive to Trans jokes in 2013...and more importantly, he didn't know Caitlyn was going to be trans.
As a gay man myself this speech was very problematic. He gave statements with stereotypical humor. How did he win an award for it? Maybe he's the only white gay man writing speeches for Ted talks maybe. LOL WTVR this speech was crap. I give it a 3 out of 10 for effort.
This is truly fascinating to me! I came out at 17 so I was mostly established with who I am, so all those years of self loathing gave me quite an sense of self deprecating humor, as well as a confidence in my masculinity and femininity. I'd never considered it until now, but he is right. The way that straight women and young gay men are sort of conditioned to take up these roles as the girly gay sidekick to the straight woman is actually pretty damaging to the gay community. This is not to say the progress towards an accepting society is a bad thing at all, because it's not. Rather it stands as a road block for many openly gay young men discovering who they want to be. From what I've noticed is that men who come out at an age before 14/15 are typically much more likely to fall into that position; while gay men who come out an older age 17-23+ are typically much more confident in themselves and who they want to be. I think this plays into the fact that we need more realistic gay men (and women) represented in movies, television, and music. For me, I had a difficult time coming to terms with my sexuality because I didn't think I was feminine enough, because as a kid, I thought being gay meant being the effeminate best friend, and that wasn't necessarily me. In all, the gay best friend trend is not necessarily bad, but it does put many gay men a box.
re: "commodification" = 1. The assignment of a commercial value to something previously valueless. 2. transformation of things such as goods, services, ideas, people or animals into objects of trade or commodities.
Fair enough speech, but he is speaking from within a small proportion of society. Very inner urban, and tertiary institutions. Hell of a lot of people DO NOT accept gay people let alone commodify them.
Just be glad that you're not being bashed and persecuted for being gay any more. Most of these GBF "trends" are evolutionary, and are engaged in by people who genuinely mean well and haven't yet learned quite how to adjust to the "new normal".
I agree with a lot of these comments that this commoditification thing isn't so bad. all it takes is telling the other person that you are not just an accessory and keep it moving. I don't think this needed a Ted talk
I don't think you should question peoples intentions. What is wrong with a girl saying you are a cute couple. What should she have said, "You two are incredibly interactive couple, and get something descent on". I tell people regardless of what they look like that they are a cute couple, it is a nice thing to say! And what is wrong with ladies having friends that happen to be gay. Many gay teens are socially rejected and they can benefit from having a girl who will stand up for them and be their friend. Who cares what they do together. Undermining the relationships of others really bugs me. I think this talk was approached with the thought that people aren't genuine, which I think most people are. Watching this was an incredible waste of time.
I found his whole TedTalk (and "award winning speech") a double standard. He's against stereotypes yet he uses, validates and even takes advantage of stereotypes more times than I could count.
He said that the speech was supposed to have some humor, and I think he was trying to use the stereotypes in a humorous way. I don't think he succeeded, but I think that was the goal.
It is very offensive! What is the problem about being a feminine gay who cares about fashion?! this guy's hate towards it's own peers it's unbelievable! I'm gay and for me is incredible a gay guy giving a speech spreading hate about other gays! WE ARE A COMMUNITY WE HAVE TO STAY TOGETHER!! The only video from TED that didn't like it AT ALL!😡
Luiz T. Peluso The speech was more about how media and society only recognizes one gay stereotype and how it's considered fashionable to have a gay friend (because it makes you look better, is the popular thing to do, or whatever). He's not hating on gays at all, he's saying that he wants to society to see gays not as feminine men who love fashion, but as people with their own individual likes and dislikes. Not all gay men love fashion (but there are those that do), not all gay men are feminine (and there those who are), not all gay men "look gay" (some people think there is a specific "gay" look, which a stereotype that I disagree with). Get to know everybody for who they are and NOT because the tv tells you that sassy feminine gay boys are an accessory that every girl needs.
I definitely didn't like this speech. It was riddled with issues. If you have a true friendship with someone you would not need to define it by one's sexual orientation. I do not have a gay best friend, I do however, have a friend who happens to be gay. Would I introduce him that way? No. There is so much more to him than that. He is my friend. Period.
Another cause is because women are socialized to prioritize male attention and validation, but they still want a space where they aren't with potential romantic partners, which like I get it, but you have to unlearn that need for constant attention from guys you can't just project all ur insecurities into some poor guy that never signed up for that 🙄
As a gay man, I find this speech extremely irrelevant. One, it makes it seem like gay men aren't capable of finding out who they are while also maintaining strong friendships. Second, why is he fighting the progression of acceptance?? Why don't you fight homophobia before you fight people that want to be your friend based on a stereotype?? His speech is basically him preaching to women about how to not have a gay best friend in the way that a gay best friend would. I can't.
I can't think of a girl I know who doesn't have a gay best friends. I've had friends who were go off about how the girls would get naked in front of him just because they knew he wouldn't oggle them. I've seen how woman complain daily to my brother who is gay in the couple months I lived with him and how whenever the girl was done talking about herself she'd soon get bored and leave. It's better than getting gaybashed like in the 90's but now instead of living in fear they live to be respected.
I think the issue is how she said it. It's as if a man called a lesbian couple sexy--not because of how they looked, but because of their pornographic value.
I am not trying to be rude or a salty viewer but this topic holds little relevance overall. Honestly, this issue is very small in terms of the problems the gay community holds and I am not downing his beliefs on the subject. I feel that this issue is a very non universal thing and not all of us go through it and to be quite honest I would have rather been wanted as someone's friend than someone's punching bag just because I like men. Furthermore, I also feel a large disconnect from this topic because honestly, please don't hate me, it is white gay issue. The white gay community has small issues that fall very short, though very annoying I'm sure, in terms of what ethnic lgbt people go through. The lgbt community has a long way to go but I think this issue is not universal as I previously stated and there are other issues that should have a bit of the spotlight. I'd love to go down the list but that deserves a TEDTalk of its own.
***** Whether you believe it or not we don't get accommodations. Actually, as a gay man of color I experienced racism or just feeling invisible. White gay men are the face of the community and there for are treated better overall. I am not the only one who thinks this, read articles and enlighten yourself. Peace
robbieisme123 I'm inclined to agree with you. It's a small issue compared to homophobia. I mean - these are people being nice, or at least thinking they're being nice and I'd much rather people did that than were hateful. I am also grateful for any support towards gay rights and whether that is coming from the acknowledgement that we are people or simply because it's trendy to be supportive of gay rights, the end effect is the same. Also, in my life, I've found the issue easy to deal with. It can be insulting when people think they know me based on one characteristic, but these people usually drift in an out of my life. Anyone who wants me as their sassy shopping buddy just because I'm gay is going to be disappointed and the people who are looking for that *are* disappointed and they move on. I'm not particularly sassy or fashionable and I'm so completely gay that I hardly even look at anything other than a woman's face. Just about every straight guy I know would have more of an idea of what looks good on a woman than me - they have a reason to have opinions! That said, I still think it's an issue worth talking about because *everything* should be talked about and I don't think we should silence one discussion just because another one may be a bit more pressing. And as far as the standards of TED talks go, I've seen some where I've thought "What are you there for, exactly? Isn't this just common knowledge?" So, what I'm saying is, yes, you're right, but this isn't *too* bad, but just with a lot more words because I'm a rambler.
Indeed, there are many different types of gays. At least this gay, Mark Pampanin, is cute, because that's about all he had to offer here in my opinion.
![ฮักเทื่อสุดท้าย - บอย ศิริชัย [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-1PoPoQ-B-k/mqdefault.jpg)
treat people like people.
amen.
You don't know the meaning of amen
It comes from the god Amun and then Christianity later stole it to make Pagans convert to their religion.
Yes. A lot of people disregard this simple knowledge. Smh...
I dont remeber the bible treating people like people
I’ve been lucky enough not to have to deal with this yet
his high pitched voice is giving me confidence because I've a high pitched voice too
I'm usually self conscious about how my voice sounds when I speak through a microphone , it sounds higher in pitch than what it sounds like to my own ears without a mic , but after hearing mark give such a confident impassioned speech it makes me feel like my own voice doesn't stop me from speaking with confidence. And I loved his message truly awe inspiring.
The problem he is pointing out is, I believe, especially aimed at the "younger" generation or my generation. I am 17, and every time some girl learns I'm gay, they say things like "OMG! I always wanted a gay best friend".
The problem with this is that young gay men, like myself, are trying to find who we are as a person, and these girls are being taught by things such as Teen Vogue to tokenize us as one sort of person. And not even as a person but as a thing, a accessory they must have. They expect us to all love and be in the know on fashion, which personally I have no clue what's trendy and what looks hot, amongst other stereotypes, and that is not all gay men.
Sure some men really fit the stereotypes, but that doesn't change the fact that as he said "Person. Mark." They are a person regardless and shouldn't be tokenized because they fit the GBF stereotypes.
And while some people say it is easy to find who you are while maintaining a relationship like that, they are really dreaming about how it really affects young people. Everything people say has a big impact and this is a big influence on them.
At the standard level, having a GBF has become a status statement like saying "oh i'm not racist because I have black friends". Having a GBF as a token does not make you any less homophobic. Whether you treat them as a person equal to you or not does, or have some people lost sight of what equality really means. This tokenization goes against the whole idea behind gay rights and people are saying "oh we can use it to gain rights, then be who we are". Well that's not the rights we want at all. We want the rights for who we all are right from the get go. We want people to view us as people and not as our sexuality. As a best friend and not a GAY best friend...
5 years later. How's being tokenized going? Has there been any improvement in your personal social circle?
jayvis, Is that sarcasm, I honestly can’t tell.
@@thedarthknight5161 I'm being genuine yea. It seems like a thing that an update on would actually be interesting don't you think?
Wise beyond your 17 years.
This comment is way too long
I like watching Ted on gay and lesbian issues you learn a lot from them we could have more of them on
Agreed!.I too, like watching Ted on gay, and lesbian issues as well, and agree you do learn a lot from them.
A agree, I wish there was a lot more!!
+Lee Daniels I agreed too, that you agreed that you like watching Ted on gay, and lesbian issues as well, and agree you do learn a lot from them.
anime fan we need more, can't get enough
He forgot the yaoi fangirls.
Atlanta Wolf I like yaoi but it doesn't translate to some odd obsession with gay men... Maybe because I'm a lesbian
Im gay and I love yaoi
girls that wanna be boys are into yaoi
Ikr lmao
There are excessive fanboys too. Most of them are problematic, though sometimes they arent bad. But super stereotyped. I think its good as guilty pleasure if you are aware that its not real life.
The commodification of gay men in China is oftentimes a way for women to avoid discrimination and ridicule.
"Leftover Women" is a poor translation from the Chinese phrase 剩女 that means something more like "Women Who Have Been Left Behind" or "The Remaining Women", and the adjective 剩 doesn't modify food like the adjective "leftover" does in English. The phrase refers to a woman who reaches her upper 20's or early 30's and has not yet found a husband, implying she's doomed to die single and be a disappointment to her family. How does this relate to gay commodification? A Chinese woman who has been "left behind" will commonly find a gay man to pretend to be her boyfriend in front of her family or business to help her save face and avoid the ridicule that comes with not getting married and having children by age 28. Hiring managers even discriminate against these women, saying that unmarried women in their 30's lack familial stability and are thus unfit for the workplace.
Bottom Line: Be careful citing headlines from different cultures or languages to support your point as these articles may have viewpoints that are unique to the point of being irrelevant to the discussion. =/
Reid Harris Thank you for taking the time to explain this. I honestly had no clue this was still happening. I was under the impression there wasn't enough men to go around. You explained it perfect and could be a TED talk on it's own.
Reid Harris
I've heard of something similar in Japan, regarding the first part, attitudes to women in their late twenties and above who are yet to marry. So I was told, they may be referred to as Christmas Cake, since they're useless after the 25th. However, I've lived there twice and been translating Japanese for almost a decade, yet have never seen or heard the term used. So I remain sceptical. It does seem though, that marriage is considered to be hugely important for young women in East Asia in general, which is a shame in my opinion.
River so it's kinda the way some gay men would date women to hide their sexually from people.
The English equivalent to 剩女 would be "Old Maid".
In case anyone is curious, "leftover women" in China refer to older women who never settled down and had children, and are often looked down on in Chinese society because of cultural pressures on women to fit the "housewife" role.
not older. just reaching 30 and not being married, they will be labeled by society as "leftovers"
Humans in general should be more than just a baby reproducing machine.
I stopped coming out to new acquaintances because I got tired of all the ambassadorial work I was having to do. Plus I'm just not that into fashion.
I liked him even before he started speaking
Same.
SAME
Nautybilal I’m in this comment and I don’t like it
It’s a fun name
I had a friend that referred to me as "My Steven"... "This is My Steven" ...
Thankfully it's had and not has
Typical.
As a gay man I think he has a very interesting opinion on the matter. I find myself using other women as a crutch a lot and maybe it isn't the best way to go. But it is much better than 30 years ago where nobody wanted or cared for gay friends. In fact most women and men of the 80s would be disgusted if they found out their friend was gay. I'm sorry but I am just not going to see this as an issue until I know for sure it can't go back to those days, which after getting Mike Pence as Vice President is the scariest thing ever to me. For anyone who doesn't know our vice president believes in electric shock therapy to turn gays back to being straight. It's a bit medieval but that's who we have in office now.
I don‘t think there is EVER security that it „doesn‘t go back to those days“ unless one demands respect and equality always and everywhere.
You coulda just said Hommodification to make it short
Why isn't this comment more popular ???
That time he predicted the Bruce Jenner thing
+futilethewinds I guess you didn't watch it but he makes a direct bBruce Jenner mention
futilethewinds but LGBT+ people face a lot of the same issues and stigmas, so it's not a bad thing to equate them in some ways
True but in 2013 when this speech was posted he said Bruce Jenner was gay, which is not true because she now identifies as a straight female, and has said that when she was living as a male she was still attracted to men. This speaker said Bruce was gay ie attracted to males before they came out as a trans* female who is attracted to men. So obviously being gay and being trans* are not the same thing, but there's a reason they're included in the same acronym and parts of one larger Queer (umbrella term) community; we share close ties.
tldr; speaker said Bruce was attracted to men, Caitlyn admits to being attracted to men
I appreciate the support but sometimes it's best to leave defending these issues to within the community. Plus Jenner is a piece of shit garbage that needs to learn how to shut their fucking mouth.
+Kayley Pugh Jenner was never attracted to men.
.he says something that needed to be said and does it so well...creative and thoughtful, beautifully presented..it is wonderful that young gay men don't need a female 'cover' any more..
At least you don't have to deal with straight boys trying to befriend you for a 3-way (bi girl problems 😂)
lov the cronch yeah, you still have it better - your struggle is mild comparatively
Vicente Martin
Let’s not make it a contest..
Vicente Martin
Let’s not make it a contest..
James Boyle she kinda made one first
Welcome to capitalism, where everyone and everything is a commodity.
So true
better than communism tho.
We are at Stage 5 toward genuine acceptance. It usually goes this way not just with gay people but ALL minority groups that have faced societal maligning by the mainstream & majority:
Stage 1. Deny their existence and treat as invisible.
Stage 2. Accept existence but only as a threat or negative thing.
Stage 3. Allow visibility and some acceptance but only as tragic figures/victims.
Stage 4. Allow visibility that is not tragic and offer acceptance not out of sympathy but they must be servile, outrageous and entertaining in exchange. They must NEVER break character to be confrontational ongoing or past injustices.
Stage 5. Accept the genuine person, all their flaws, all their diversity, all their complexity and even express support for their struggle BUT in turn they must show gratitude by being willing to be your accessory/token whenever you wan to look "open-minded" and "cool".
Stage 6. Unconditionally accept the person and support their right to speak up against injustice and/or add your support simply because it's the right thing to do. You want nothing in return except to be treated with the same basic human decency.
Pretty Well Said...
I'd say we're in stage four tbh.
You do realise that most countries are still at stage 2... you know the U.S. and the European Union are just a fraction of the entire world. For example: In China and India it is still at stage 2 and they make 1/3 of the entire world population. Russia, the biggest country in the world by surface, also at stage 2 and don’t get me started on all (without exceptions) muslim states. That means that just a small fraction of LGBT people can enjoy not being extremely oppressed.
I find this so interesting, does anyone have a source for this?
@@mikipav1064 - I'm relatively sure by we, she means the USA specifically, or whatever modern country she resides in, else her comment would make literally no sense.
Secondly, and I can't tell if it's one way or the other, but if you happen to be saying that it's worse in other countries thus we shouldn't worry about modern countries, to that I simply say "Fallacy of Relative Privation". If this isn't the case though, just ignore the last sentence.
Yay I love being someone’s real life comedy relief sidekick
Sure there are bigger issues but commodifying is cheapening patronising and basically belittling so it should be addressed. The media fosters this attitude : the emasculated pet homosexual - as seen in every tv show - it's all nauseating. this all happened with black people and now we are horrified by it - so what's the difference? gay men are not here to make straight women feel better about themselves - we are people in our right - you ask me my opinion and I'll give you the truth - not want you want me to say - if you want an ego massage go somewhere else. Commodifying gay men is destructive and toxic and robs gay men of their dignity so don't trivialise it. I applaud Mark for making this speech. Let's be dignified self respecting human beings and not play into this trivialising crap.
What's wrong with flannel?!
gaysoullessginger i have 12 flannels and i love them
There is EVERYTHING wrong with flannel
Unless it's rainbow🌈
He’s just jealous that we can rock it and he can’t
Are you my long lost twin?
Oh yea, that is the REAL problem, people accepting us and wanting to be our friends. Forget stonewall, losing job, family, house and even being killed. This my dear friends is the problem!
I know a lot of gay men who now prefer to hang out with other guys - both straight and gay - precisely because they feel that many of their friendships with women have been too one-sided and left them feeling used, or that they've felt too often cast into the role of the "gay boyfriend" where they're expected to fulfill all the needs that a boyfriend would fill with the exception of sex.
I enjoy having both male and female friends, but it has been a challenge at times with my girl amigos.
Lmao the catelyn Jenner joke didn't age well 😂😂
This speech would have gotten a c at best in my eighth grade debate class. It is shallow, full of the kind of stereotyping it seems to be arguing against, and truly without an argument for anything. What a shame this was chosen to represent young gay men in the World today.
yeah i thought it was a bit lame too
i do the ”you guys are so cute” with any type of couple o.o
Kinn Thoine exactly
zack munez exactly! why would someone get mad about that?
Context, I imagine. It sounded like neither of them knew the girl and were just minding their own business, in which case it does come off as a little weird.
Frankly if the worst you get called is 'cute', I don't think you have much to worry about or complain about.
A more interesting subject would be the commodification of gay men by other gay man.
The issue is obsession and sometimes fetishization.
The first half of the speech got me hooked, and then he lost me (probably somewhere around the rap). I agree that the commercialization of the GBF is an issue, but only because it promotes one-sided relationships and the idea that there is just one type of homosexual (the effeminate gay man who cares only about you and your issues). Outside of this, I think it's pretty normal for women and gay men to seek each other out as natural allies. Women tend to be less judgmental and more open and accepting than straight men and gay men offer a supportive masculine presence that lacks aggressive sexual energy (i.e. we're not trying to get in their pants all the time). The important thing is to make sure your friendships are real friendships. Also, a straight girl calling you and your boyfriend cute is not a problem. I call straight couples cute all the time. Some couples just are. Deal with it and move on.
6 years later, it is still popular
It seems like he's fighting stereotypes with more stereotypes.
GrrrrrrrL!!!!!
Right?
You're an absolute moron. It's important to reclaim stereotypes, when we want to and when we fit them. Almost no "straight" people *ever* confront their ideas about us if we don't.
lmao
Wrong!
Anyone else think the speech didnt really talk about any deeper meaning other than "gbf's are not just gay their so much more than that". Idk i felt as though he just kinda stated a trend and then blamed girls who get gbf's as the problem. Gay boys need to stand up for themselves unless their ok with being treated as a commodity. Its a two lane road
Richard Baird exactly
i found his talk vacuous.
First world problems for contemporary gays who have no idea of the struggles of their predecessors which allowed them to be so comfortable.
For someone who doesn't want to stereotype, he sure puts a lot of people into categories.
I actually really enjoy being the gay best friend...
OMG ME TO! XD it's hilarious
Enzan Takeshita because you gain acceptance.. been there done that... at the end of the day they only seem you as something different and thats why they treat you so well... i just want to be seem as an equal...
I guess
but I just naturally enjoy hanging out more with women than I do men.
It'd also probably be really awkward having a bunch of friends who you want to bone
Enzan Takeshita lol same 😂
Enzan Takeshita just because you're friends with them doesn't mean you're gonna be interested in that way, straight men and women can be just friends who cares if you're interested in their gender doesn't mean you're gonna be attracted to them
Love isn't something you find. Love is something that finds you...
Some of what was said here feels necessary but the speech was disorienting. Seems to defeat the purpose if your speech against oversimplifying gay men is riddled with jokes using gay stereotypes. Is humor worth demeaning your argument?
The trouble with friendships that are fashionable is these friends may not be true allies. They are clueless about issues and less likely to support in meaningful ways.
Inform them! They don't walk in our shoes, so it's not fair to expect full understanding.
This is progress. He is just too young to understand what it was like 20 years ago.
He sounds like Kurt from Glee.
when she said you two were cute she was talking about your faces and personalities, not your clothes. She pays you a compliment and you misinterpret it as a negative. Some people are just determined to misinterpret everything to make it as negative as possible.
'Plus, if i can blame anything on hipsters, i will.' XD
People in the comments are missing the point lmao
Low-key thought he was going to turn the speech into a musical, why high brain why! I'm a trans woman and still treated like a gaybff -.-
Not far off.
WHY DID HE PREDICT BRUCE COMING OUT
what a clever young man There is hope for the future !
I'm gay and this guy is gayer than gay. No offense to my community but if he REALLY wanted to make a point and remove himself from being labeled as the stereotypical gay then he shouldn't have tried to make a connection with the audience by using stereotypical gay remarks in order to be more relatable and likeable. Poor choice.
+isaac p it was satirical.
+Conner Kelly I didn't laugh.
Then you didn't find it funny. Simple. It doesn't mean it wasn't funny to a vast majority of his audience.
I call my friend and her boyfriend cute all the time. I don't see anything wrong with it apart from the fact that this guy is overthinking it
Whatassignments It's different if it is a stranger.
SUPER DUCKS but it wasn't a stranger, he waved to the girl probably cuz he knew her
I would hope he would modify this speech so that his asides aren't so pejorative, particularly the one regarding Caitlyn Jenner. These asides are contradictory to the message he's trying to get across.
This was before Bruce came out as Caitlyn. People were less sensitive to Trans jokes in 2013...and more importantly, he didn't know Caitlyn was going to be trans.
Which is why I said I hope he has modified the speech...
From the thumbnail I thought it was Justin Trudeau 🤣🤣
THAT'S MY CHILDHOOD FRIEND! WOO! :D
U mean ur childhood GBF
I love this speech but it was wayyy too pop culturally fueled
That Bruce Jenner reference was quite telling.
+Graydon Buchleiter OMG IM LIKE
WAIT ITS CAITLYN
but then i saw the video was in 2013
.
+ThatManAdrian She hadn't transitioned yet
As a gay man, I find this speech very offensive and pointless...
Jerjer B how so? maybe you don't agree with it, but how's it offensive?
Jerjer B As a gay man, I find your comment offensive and pointless
Aha, a "point" without arguing or reason behind it. Anybody with a rational mind finds this comment very offensive and pointless.
meh. *yawns*
and - if gay men were a little nicer to each other. .a straight woman is a safe place for gay men.....
Precisely. That's why all my friends are straight men.
As a gay man myself this speech was very problematic. He gave statements with stereotypical humor. How did he win an award for it? Maybe he's the only white gay man writing speeches for Ted talks maybe. LOL WTVR this speech was crap. I give it a 3 out of 10 for effort.
Standing ovation!
I can't believe that one a contest. Wow. It was inane.
"Treat people like people!"
Sad we have to say it!
College was fun, best friend saw me as nothing but a prop for 2years.
The media commodifies everyone!
This is truly fascinating to me! I came out at 17 so I was mostly established with who I am, so all those years of self loathing gave me quite an sense of self deprecating humor, as well as a confidence in my masculinity and femininity. I'd never considered it until now, but he is right. The way that straight women and young gay men are sort of conditioned to take up these roles as the girly gay sidekick to the straight woman is actually pretty damaging to the gay community. This is not to say the progress towards an accepting society is a bad thing at all, because it's not. Rather it stands as a road block for many openly gay young men discovering who they want to be. From what I've noticed is that men who come out at an age before 14/15 are typically much more likely to fall into that position; while gay men who come out an older age 17-23+ are typically much more confident in themselves and who they want to be. I think this plays into the fact that we need more realistic gay men (and women) represented in movies, television, and music. For me, I had a difficult time coming to terms with my sexuality because I didn't think I was feminine enough, because as a kid, I thought being gay meant being the effeminate best friend, and that wasn't necessarily me. In all, the gay best friend trend is not necessarily bad, but it does put many gay men a box.
re: "commodification" = 1. The assignment of a commercial value to something previously valueless. 2. transformation of things such as goods, services, ideas, people or animals into objects of trade or commodities.
Fair enough speech, but he is speaking from within a small proportion of society. Very inner urban, and tertiary institutions. Hell of a lot of people DO NOT accept gay people let alone commodify them.
Just be glad that you're not being bashed and persecuted for being gay any more. Most of these GBF "trends" are evolutionary, and are engaged in by people who genuinely mean well and haven't yet learned quite how to adjust to the "new normal".
I agree with a lot of these comments that this commoditification thing isn't so bad. all it takes is telling the other person that you are not just an accessory and keep it moving. I don't think this needed a Ted talk
god his voice...
I don't think you should question peoples intentions. What is wrong with a girl saying you are a cute couple. What should she have said, "You two are incredibly interactive couple, and get something descent on". I tell people regardless of what they look like that they are a cute couple, it is a nice thing to say! And what is wrong with ladies having friends that happen to be gay. Many gay teens are socially rejected and they can benefit from having a girl who will stand up for them and be their friend. Who cares what they do together. Undermining the relationships of others really bugs me. I think this talk was approached with the thought that people aren't genuine, which I think most people are. Watching this was an incredible waste of time.
valid points. but gbfs have existed way before they became a trend. people are just acknowledging it more because gays are more accepted now.
I found his whole TedTalk (and "award winning speech") a double standard. He's against stereotypes yet he uses, validates and even takes advantage of stereotypes more times than I could count.
He said that the speech was supposed to have some humor, and I think he was trying to use the stereotypes in a humorous way. I don't think he succeeded, but I think that was the goal.
Why is this A TedTalk???
Cause it's important
Progress has many footsteps. Not all of those steps are perfect and some may cause injury and hurt feelings. Keeping it real helps.
No one found this offensive?
It is very offensive! What is the problem about being a feminine gay who cares about fashion?! this guy's hate towards it's own peers it's unbelievable! I'm gay and for me is incredible a gay guy giving a speech spreading hate about other gays! WE ARE A COMMUNITY WE HAVE TO STAY TOGETHER!! The only video from TED that didn't like it AT ALL!😡
Luiz T. Peluso The speech was more about how media and society only recognizes one gay stereotype and how it's considered fashionable to have a gay friend (because it makes you look better, is the popular thing to do, or whatever). He's not hating on gays at all, he's saying that he wants to society to see gays not as feminine men who love fashion, but as people with their own individual likes and dislikes. Not all gay men love fashion (but there are those that do), not all gay men are feminine (and there those who are), not all gay men "look gay" (some people think there is a specific "gay" look, which a stereotype that I disagree with). Get to know everybody for who they are and NOT because the tv tells you that sassy feminine gay boys are an accessory that every girl needs.
+Luiz T. Peluso you didnt get the point of the speech at all
This guy is preaching the truth!!!!
Andy Bethea cant be truth unless you can prove it tooooo. no insult intended.
+Wesley Groth Except it is proven because it is a REAL THING like this is a REAL PHENOMENON in REAL LIFE.
*_there is your proof, lol_*
I definitely didn't like this speech. It was riddled with issues.
If you have a true friendship with someone you would not need to define it by one's sexual orientation. I do not have a gay best friend, I do however, have a friend who happens to be gay. Would I introduce him that way? No. There is so much more to him than that. He is my friend. Period.
I think that's what he was trying to say--too many gay men are treated as "gay best friends" instead of just "best friends".
Another cause is because women are socialized to prioritize male attention and validation, but they still want a space where they aren't with potential romantic partners, which like I get it, but you have to unlearn that need for constant attention from guys you can't just project all ur insecurities into some poor guy that never signed up for that 🙄
As a gay man, I find this speech extremely irrelevant. One, it makes it seem like gay men aren't capable of finding out who they are while also maintaining strong friendships. Second, why is he fighting the progression of acceptance?? Why don't you fight homophobia before you fight people that want to be your friend based on a stereotype?? His speech is basically him preaching to women about how to not have a gay best friend in the way that a gay best friend would. I can't.
Well, I watched the talk from start to finish. I'm not convinced this is a real problem, or perhaps a rather extreme example of a 1st world problem.
Interesting talk. Nice to talk about not wanting to be used.
leftover women= unmarried woman 25+ in china...
Boy. I guess people are running low on reasons to be offended...
It's hard to break stereotypes when you slip in that you want to 'kill the trend' which in your opinion is 'uglier than UGG Boots'.
tough crowd lol
I can't think of a girl I know who doesn't have a gay best friends. I've had friends who were go off about how the girls would get naked in front of him just because they knew he wouldn't oggle them. I've seen how woman complain daily to my brother who is gay in the couple months I lived with him and how whenever the girl was done talking about herself she'd soon get bored and leave. It's better than getting gaybashed like in the 90's but now instead of living in fear they live to be respected.
A non-issue!!!! He does not represent all gays!
THIS IS ALL SO TRUE!!!! SOMEONE WHO FINALLY GETS IT!!!!
what annoys me is when there are girls that ship gay couples but then don't support actual gay people
Watching in 2020 and this aged like a fine wine.
There isn't anything wrong with a girl calling him and his boyfriend cute. I'm confused.
Totally agree! But then I thought would she have said that if they were a straight couple?
I think the issue is how she said it. It's as if a man called a lesbian couple sexy--not because of how they looked, but because of their pornographic value.
BadBoyAbes True. Because seeing a straight couple, no matter how attractive they are, isn't a novelty.
Brilliant stuff.
I am not trying to be rude or a salty viewer but this topic holds little relevance overall. Honestly, this issue is very small in terms of the problems the gay community holds and I am not downing his beliefs on the subject. I feel that this issue is a very non universal thing and not all of us go through it and to be quite honest I would have rather been wanted as someone's friend than someone's punching bag just because I like men. Furthermore, I also feel a large disconnect from this topic because honestly, please don't hate me, it is white gay issue. The white gay community has small issues that fall very short, though very annoying I'm sure, in terms of what ethnic lgbt people go through. The lgbt community has a long way to go but I think this issue is not universal as I previously stated and there are other issues that should have a bit of the spotlight. I'd love to go down the list but that deserves a TEDTalk of its own.
dimitrovajunkie AGREED 100%
*****
Gay men of 'color'? Of 'color'? Really?
if you have a thought on the subject, then share. Nothing is personal, share what you believe cause I don't know what you are trying to say with this.
***** Whether you believe it or not we don't get accommodations. Actually, as a gay man of color I experienced racism or just feeling invisible. White gay men are the face of the community and there for are treated better overall. I am not the only one who thinks this, read articles and enlighten yourself. Peace
robbieisme123 I'm inclined to agree with you. It's a small issue compared to homophobia. I mean - these are people being nice, or at least thinking they're being nice and I'd much rather people did that than were hateful. I am also grateful for any support towards gay rights and whether that is coming from the acknowledgement that we are people or simply because it's trendy to be supportive of gay rights, the end effect is the same. Also, in my life, I've found the issue easy to deal with. It can be insulting when people think they know me based on one characteristic, but these people usually drift in an out of my life. Anyone who wants me as their sassy shopping buddy just because I'm gay is going to be disappointed and the people who are looking for that *are* disappointed and they move on. I'm not particularly sassy or fashionable and I'm so completely gay that I hardly even look at anything other than a woman's face. Just about every straight guy I know would have more of an idea of what looks good on a woman than me - they have a reason to have opinions!
That said, I still think it's an issue worth talking about because *everything* should be talked about and I don't think we should silence one discussion just because another one may be a bit more pressing. And as far as the standards of TED talks go, I've seen some where I've thought "What are you there for, exactly? Isn't this just common knowledge?" So, what I'm saying is, yes, you're right, but this isn't *too* bad, but just with a lot more words because I'm a rambler.
This mans aura really brings the point home for some reason
I loved this
ted used to not waste my time
Ted Talks hits the nail on the head once again!
So many women have tried to recruit me as a GBF. I'm not boasting. It just shows how right Pampanin is.
SouthPark very deliberately called a character “token” for the same reason
Indeed, there are many different types of gays. At least this gay, Mark Pampanin, is cute, because that's about all he had to offer here in my opinion.
he's literally playing into stereotypes while telling people not to play into stereotypes
Wouldn't that be com·mod·i·ti·za·tion, not commodification?
I'm offended at my offensive offender offending my fender.
such a great speaker
Fantastic!