AUKUS: Responding to criticism from the Greens
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ส.ค. 2024
- Senator Fawcett addresses an urgency motion moved by the Greens on the AUKUS agreement.
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Excellent Senator, peace Through Strength!, always works.
Excellent. You have focussed on the key issue....Life Cycle Cost!
It's not a lifecycle cost. The $368 billion is the total cost of implementing the nuclear submarine capability (design, build, testing, infrastructure etc) and operating it only until 2055. We won't even have all eight SSN-AUKUS submarines until the late 2060s and they will have an operational life of at least 30 years. That means we will be operating, maintaining and upgrading them until at least 2090. The costs between 2055 and 2090+ have not been factored in. The annual costs of operating eight SSN-AUKUS boats will be circa $9-12 billion per annum. The $368 billion number also does not include the secure and safe storage of Highly Enriched Uranium (HEU) which is 93-97% weapons grade nuclear waste for thousands of years, nor does it include the cost of decommissioning the boats at their end of life. The total cost is going to be at least $600 billion between 2023 and 2090, an absurb amount of money to put just 3-4 nuclear powered submarines in the water at any given time from the 2060s onwards, nuclear subs which will only carry conventional weapons.
Well said Senator.
This guy is great…
David Fawcett is exactly the quality of senator we need in Parliament! David knows his defence information and explains it simply so other senators can actually understand it, particularly the Greens. Well done David!
So well put
Senator is correct in all aspects.!!
so say we all
Thank you Mr Fawcett for explaining the details with funding for the new Subs and the explanation of a deterrent for our country . This has been raised in a few conversations with friends and it’s great to get the explanations to how this works from your experience being in the forces , much appreciated 👍🇦🇺
Well said!!
There was once an Englishman called Malcolm Muggeridge who wrote various articles and books. There was an article dated 1933 (I think), called “Why I am not a Pacifist” in his book “Things Past” which sets out very similar arguments for having a strong defence force and police force. Makes perfect sense to me!
I love this Senator's presence !
And, he speaks from the heart.
This is what I expect from a Senator !
He is truly worthy to be called 'honourable' !!
Wouldn’t waste my breath explaining anything to the Greens! 🤬
Mate, I'm no fan of the Greens, but at least someone is asking questions about this absurd $600 billion folly. The $368 billion cost is only until 2055. If some of the comments on here are anything to go by, Australians have swallowed hook line and sinker, line after line of grandiose hyperbole, and have absolutely no analytical thinking or seriously care about the effective use of taxpayer dollars. I am all for Pillar 2 of AUKUS, but spending $600 billion between 2023 and 2090+ to put just 3-4 nuclear powered submarines in the water at any given time which will carry only conventional weapons and which won't be fully operational until 2060s, at the expense of other investments in more suitable defence capablities, is just madness.
The rationale and urgency for AUKUS was that there is a threat from China in this decade. Let's be optimistic and say the threat won't materialise until the 2030s. But Australia will not have a fully operational nuclear submarine capability until the 2060s! We may get up to three used Virginia class submarines from the USA this decade but that is highly unlikely because the USA is 18-24 months behind in their Virginia build schedule, they've just cut the construction of one new Virginia next year, and the US Navy is already 17% below their expected annual operational deployment requirements because of the delays in construction and because the Virginia's are maintenance hogs. The US Navy has been canabilising spare parts on Virginias for the past few years further exacerbating their problems. People seriously think the USA is going to give us 2-3 of their critical attack class submarine capability! The first SSN-AUKUS built for Australia in the UK will not be delivered until early 2040 and won't be operational until late 2040s. 2060 is the current date for Australia to have all eight Australian SSN-AUKUS boats delivered, but they won't all be fully operational until mid to late 2060s.
And of course all this assumes the project will be on time and on budget...
Great post !
🤔I'll be dead by 2060, so I'll never know😢
@MartinWalshDC a project is needed to have money floating around. When money is floating around. All what is talked is not based on any logic. Why do we need nuke submarines to strike who. To defend ourselves from who. Why do we need to invest in defence when we import our military gear that rusts in the warehouses. We are almost nothing for the weapons importers. We are not able to build a reliable assault rifle. Our industry moved abroad.
@@Yourbrightspot I can assure you that when I was in the Army nothing rusted, rotted, decomposed, whatever in warehouses! It was used. Especially on exercise or more importantly operation!
@Yourbrightspot
True. We don't even need to be afraid of China, Australia is their second home, away from home, and they own most of it anyway. 0ne day they will just walk right in.
The irrelevant greens will stand on the sea shore waiting for the enemy with flowers.
Yes, then wonder why they too are killed.
Which enemy? Find an enemy first before wasting money.
@@Yourbrightspot Xi Jinping and the PLA. There, I said it wumao
@AF-cg2es there is no more PLA. China loves the business relationship with Australia. Not the war relationship, like what our CIA senator is pledging. We should not spit on the hand that purchases our iron ore and minerals and keeping our men and women employed for the sake of filling some pockets with defence money.
@@AF-cg2es
Wow Australia should be proud that China decides to invade a foreign nation after more than half a century of peaceful rise. Australia had sent troops to Iraq, Vietnam, afghan...more...following the footsteps of US. Its a funny world nowadays, the strongest protest of national security come from nations that waged most wars, killed most civilians after the WWII.
Clearly spoken, not one um, ah or fumbling for words. This is public speaking as I remember it.
Lol good to the people who voted him in common sense politician
Agree with you, however the first part regarding reliance on other nations saves us money. Yes it does in the short term...but as a sovereign nation isolated by vast body of water we should still invest and develop stuff ourselves.
We use too, until Labor and the unions stopped it 3 decades ago.
Great TH-cam channel layout. Love the playlists
Beware "Gang Green"
How dare they squeeze Labor to get something for the ppl
Pity the you LNP and Labor have no moral compass.
McKim? Or should it be McDim?
Greens and the people who vote for them. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Instead of appealing to the greens with aspirational rhetoric ask them how they envisage that a country that has territorial and protective responsibility for 1/9th of the wolrds oceans, and where 98% of our trade comes by sea, how they intend forward protecting the sea lanes, how they intend to deter threats (beyond inane platitudes) and how we have a coherent force posture that embraces all the prev?
forget the theatre, force them to think and respond, questions and responses in the reps and the senate are invariably as factually robust as belting someone with a wet tram ticket. Hold them to account even if they will never get into govt because their inane solutions unfort dribble through to some in the public who think that the govt of the day should always be about sweetness and light unless theyre hooking into the ADF or our partners.
Its long overdue that politicians get real and stop using weasel words or dorothy dixers for air time. its about time some olf these talking heads were rendered ineffective with cold hard facts rather than giving them a vehicle of opportunity to wax lyrical on more nonsensical pixie dust solutions
The greens won’t understand the context of that line of questioning.
Is the straight deep enough for the large sub or what we needed is smaller subs for the waters around Australia.
The idea is to stop them before they get to Australian waters
Do some study and you will see what depth a sub goes, very surprising. Our Submarine fleets for the past 40 yrs have been doing it.
The AUKUS deal includes, among many other things, getting us to a stage where we will be building our own Nuclear Submarines designed for our waters.
Australia is the sixth largest country in the world being the eight country with the most coastline (25 760 kilometres in fact) At the current moment we have such a large coastline we can't possibly patrol or defend it. Point in case the recent landings of illegal immigrants to the west coast of Australia. AUKUS will greatly enhance our patrolling and defence capabilities. The US has the most efficient and reliable of all submarine builders at the current moment. They will be able to stay at sea for prolonged periods of time saving billions of dollars in cost and time and most probably lives as well. They will also provide the training needed and servicing of the submarines. To say that this will be to detriment of Australia is absolutely ridiculous. As for being a threat to China is almost laughable with the DOZENS of submarines that THEY already have. If anyone should be threatened it is Australia !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Finally we are heading in the right direction of increasing arms. Australia is resource rich and is the envy of the world. Unfortunately we have one of the worlds smallest defence force for a developed nation in the world and this will be a step in the right direction .............
Come for me, I live in Darwin.
I enjoy your professional scrutiny of the government and Defence officials however the pursuit of SSN-AUKUS submarines for Australia will be a categorical disaster for our country. We're going to spend at least $600 billion between 2023 and 2090+ to put just 3-4 nuclear submarines in the water at any given time. The incredible expense of building and operating nuclear powered submarines only makes sense when they offer a strategic deterrence and that strategic deterence only comes from nuclear powered submarines carrying nuclear weapons. Australia's SSN-AUKUS submarines will only carry conventional weapons so they make no sense whatsoever in terms of cost vs the size of our country, our military, our defence budgets, rapidly evolving future technology, and importantly other defence needs (for example we have almost ZERO ballistic missile defence capability and Australia has no hardening of military or critical civillian infrastructure).
The often quoted figure of $368 billion for AUKUS submarines is the cost of building and operating them ONLY until 2055. Australia will not have a fully operational nuclear submarine capability until the 2060s. We may get up to three used Virginia class submarines from the USA this decade but that is highly unlikely because the USA is 18-24 months behind in their Virginia build schedule, they've just cut the construction of one new Virginia next year, and the US Navy is already 17% below their expected annual operational requirements because of the delays in construction and because the Virginia's are maintenance hogs. The US Navy has been canabilising spare parts on Virginias for the past few years further exacerbating their problems. The first SSN-AUKUS built for Australia in the UK will not be delivered until early 2040 and won't be operational until late 2040s. 2060 is the current date for Australia to have all eight Australian SSN-AUKUS boats delivered but they won't all be fully operational until mid to late 2060s. Also, half of any nuclear submarine fleet is out of the water at any given time for maintenance so in the mid to 2060s, Australia we will have just 3-4 SSN-AUKUS boats in the water at any given time. And this assumes everything runs to schedule and to budget which is not going to happen with something as complex as a new nuclear submarine design and build.
If the threats are going to materialise this decade (2020s) or even the decade after that (2030s), why on Earth are we investing over $600 billion to introduce a capability which won't be fully operational and therefore of any viable defensive or offensive value until the 2060s? Our politicians and defence officials have gone stark raving mad and clearly so has some of the Australian population who blindly supports it.
Rubbish. The $368B is for missiles, drones, tanks, etc, etc, AND a Sub base AND a manufacturing plant AND 11 Subs. [EDIT: AND it's over 30 years. ]
@@buildmotosykletist1987 did you even read my comment? $368 billion is the cost of the AUKUS submarine project between when it began in 2023 and 2055 (32 years) - e.g. designing, building, and testing the new SSN-AUKUS submarines, building required infrastructure, operating them, and acquiring three used Virginia class subs and operating them. This $368 billion also includes a $128 billion contingency because designing and building a new class of nuclear powered submarines is the most complex engineering task in the world. The $368 billion does not include the building and operating costs of these submarines from 2055 onwards, nor does it include the costs of securely storing Highly Enriched Uranium (HEU), 93-97% weapons grade nuclear waste for thousands of years. The $368 billion price tag DOES NOT include drones, tanks, missiles etc.
And, the operational life of these new SSN-AUKUS boats will be roughly 30+ years which means more money is needed BEYOND 2055. We will not have all eight SSN-AUKUS submarines and they will not all be fully operational until the 2060s at the earliest. The annual $9-12 billion cost of operating these boats from 2055 onwards is NOT included in the $368 billion price tag, nor is the cost of maintaining or upgrading them if and when needed.
Again, $600 billion plus to put just 3-4 nuclear powered submarines in the water at any time in the 2060s which will only carry conventional weapons is not a good investment for Australia at the expense of other military capabilities and domestic civillian needs, and they will certainly not be a strategic deterence to China or any other major distruptive power, particularly in context of rapidly advancing technologies.
You know all this information is publicly available?
@@MartinWalshDC : What date was AUKUS started ? Hint: It was NOT 2023. All your facts are fiction. Stop lying.
@@MartinWalshDC : AUKUS is a LOT more than just the Subs. The Subs are only a part of AUKUS.
@@buildmotosykletist1987The trilateral AUKUS agreement was signed in September 2021. Senior Officials Group meetings, Joint Steering Groups, and Seventeen trilateral working groups were established in early 2022 and formally commenced the early work of requirements gathering and estimating the costs. Finally in March 2023, the costs and high level details were announced. However, the Australian Submarine Agency created to manage the design, build and implementation of the AUKUS submarine program and the AUKUS submarine budget were not established until 1 July 2023. You are conflating the specific cost of the AUKUS Submarine project projected at $368 billion (only until 2055) with the separate and additional costs for the broader AUKUS Advanced Capabilities initiatives. The AUKUS submarine project has a budget of $368 billion that DOES NOT include the costs for other AUKUS advanced capabilities initiatives such as: Undersea Capabilities (AURAS), Quantam technologies, Artificial Intelligence, Advanced Cyber, Hypersonic and counter-hypersonic capabilities, general innovation and information sharing. Again, all this is publicly available so I have no idea why you're attempting to disprove what I've said - all based on official Australian, British and White House documents.
Problems are certain political party's have a different ideology
That you can defend yourself so they and their financial backers
Can run their dictatorship together as same communism ideology
Why aren't you listening to the ADF commanders that are experienced in war fare?
Most of the ADF commanders have been sitting in nice aircon HQs in a safe place, ask ANGUS CAMPBELL.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
True but 9 LA class subs cost 24.5bn US = 34bn AU in 2019. So 8 LA class in $AU is about 33bn today. Through life support costs 3 x acquisition cost as a rule, mega facilities means another 33bn. So why r we paying so much? We should be paying $165bn not more than double that. Cream anyone?
We are going to outlay over $600 billion in total between 2022 and 2090 to enable a nuclear submarine capability which won't be fully operational until the 2060s and which will then see us able to deploy only 3-4 boats in the water at any given time. The $368 billion price tag is the design, build, testing, training and operation of eight SSN-AUKUS submarines, along with the necessary infrastructure, systems and a build contingency, only until 2055. The operational life of the new SSN-AUKUS boats will be 30+ years so we will be operating them until at least 2090 but the $368 billion budget is only until 2055. It costs around $9-12 billion per year to operate and maintain the eight SSN-AUKUS boats and the $368 billion price tag does not include safely and securing storing Highly Enriched Uranium (HEU), 93-97% weapons grade nuclear waste for thousands of years or upgrading the boats or decommissioning them.
Australia will not have a fully operational nuclear submarine capability until the 2060s. We may get up to three used Virginia class submarines from the USA this decade but that is highly unlikely because the USA is 18-24 months behind in their Virginia build schedule, they've just cut the construction of one new Virginia next year, and the US Navy is already 17% below their expected annual operational requirements because of the delays in construction and because the Virginia's are maintenance hogs. The US Navy has been canabilising spare parts on Virginias for the past few years further exacerbating their problems. The first SSN-AUKUS built for Australia in the UK will not be delivered until early 2040 and won't be operational until late 2040s. 2060 is the current date for Australia to have all eight Australian SSN-AUKUS boats delivered but they won't all be fully operational until mid to late 2060s. Also, half of any nuclear submarine fleet is out of the water at any given time for maintenance so in the mid to 2060s, Australia we will have just 3-4 SSN-AUKUS boats in the water at any given time.
All this assumes everything will run on time and on budget and we all know that's not going to happen. Designing and building a new class of nuclear submarine is the single hardest engineering task on Earth.
Because we can't make them, like buying a new car, you negotiated with the manufacturer. You either go US / UK, French, Russian , Chinese or North Korean. Lets pick the cheapest Ha.
The dollars also include 4 missile platforms and the ability to build them here and aid in continuing research on an Australian made hypersonic missile, as well as the American Nuclear Subs, the upgrading of our current shipyards and the designing and building of Australian specific SSNs. It will take some time to do it all but is well worth it.
@@Luum81 the $368 billion figure often touted only covers Pillar 1 of AUKUS, introducing an eight SSN-AUKUS submarine capability to the Australian Navy up to 2055. The costs of the AUKUS Pillar 2 Advanced Capabilities are separate, additional costs over and above the $368 billion. Advanced Capabilities program includes - AURAS (undersea), hypersonic & counter-hypersonic missiles to Cyber warfare and Artificial Intelligence / Autonomy, to name a few.
@@MartinWalshDC Not what I have read from various sources and if that is so it is still money well spent.
Seriously , when elected these people should be taught WORLD rules . One of them being that we as a nation must be able to hold our own . Luckily for us our allies USA have always had a spot for us in there agenda . That doesnt mean that could all change , send the GREENS to China .
Wait until you answer to President Trump and bend the knee.
We bend the knee to the king not America. America is falling faster then your president
You do know that for submarines to be able to access our shores, they would have to create passages for submarines. Our shores are too shallow,
And we listen to a dimwit once again. We already have a submarine fleet - Lauranebro.
Yeah, Australia will be safer with the subs ay, Just as long as there's no war for the next 20 yrs! Well one thing about not being able to buy enough tucker, we'll lose weight 😂😂😂😭😭
The 3 Virginias arrive this decade.
Another F111 = Sub.
Most of those points he notes are highly debatable.
What protections are there against cost blow-outs and flaws.
What difference will one actual aus sub in the strait at any time make.
AND, the reason the world agreed to trade in US $ was that in exchange US would protect the seas.
I say invest the money in our own military industry, especially drones.
Btw we have no sovereignty if we can't force return of Assange.
it's a joke 12 years away seriously.
Nope. This decade.
Australia will not have a fully operational nuclear submarine capability until the 2060s. We may get up to three used Virginia class submarines from the USA this decade but that is highly unlikely because the USA is 18-24 months behind in their Virginia build schedule, they've just cut the construction of one new Virginia next year, and the US Navy is already 17% below their expected annual operational requirements because of the delays in construction and because the Virginia's are maintenance hogs. The US Navy has been canabilising spare parts on Virginias for the past few years further exacerbating their problems. The first SSN-AUKUS built for Australia in the UK will not be delivered until early 2040 and won't be operational until late 2040s. 2060 is the current date for Australia to have all eight Australian SSN-AUKUS boats delivered but they won't all be fully operational until mid to late 2060s. Also, half of any nuclear submarine fleet is out of the water at any given time for maintenance so in the mid to 2060s, Australia we will have just 3-4 SSN-AUKUS boats in the water at any given time.
@@MartinWalshDC : America is increasing their manufacturing of Virginia subs. They are committed to supplying us in congress. Congress is a much more reliable source than you who edits comments and lies.
@@buildmotosykletist1987 What is factually incorrect with what I have stated about when we will actually have nuclear submarines?
@@MartinWalshDC : Nothing you originally stated is factual. Only your edited changes even come close to factual.
Anyone who thinks these subs are about defence needs a brain check.
OK, what are they about ?
David Fawcett should come to Darwin and spew his racist rhetoric
What racist rhetoric?
In summary "Keep the enemy scared away ...and they won't attack! ...and we have BIG Friends!"???
Said in second.... Pollies talk too much waffle!