Cfmoto 450mt | Design flaw | Water in sub frame
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ย. 2024
- Cfmoto 450mt / Ibex450 Water collecting in subframe. Here is where it is and how I dealt with it.
Disclaimer: this is how I dealt with the problem, maybe it isn't the best way but it's how I did it. Make your own decision of how you deal with the problem and don't hold me accountable for your decisions.
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#cfmoto #adventurebike
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Recommendation from a Land Rover owner: !.) Drain the rusty water; 2.) Dry the "pipe" inside by gently heating it from the outside e.g. with a strong hair dryer; 3.) Inject a bit of LINSEED OIL VARNISH with a syringe through the hole and swirl it around so that the rusty inside surface gets covered completely; 4.) drain the rest of the linseed oil varnish; 5.) Let it dry for a couple of days before riding it through rain or mud again. Et voila - you got the rusty inside layer chemically transformed in some of the best rust protection available called HEMATITE.
@@klugscheisser7530 good info thanks
Please would it work on a rusty petrol tank inside
As a guy who rebuild old bikes I have seen this on all types and makes of bikes frame and swing arm .I do the same drill a little hole so the water can get out and then just squirt am anti corrosive in every now and then .👍
@@kevbaldwin9552 Yep that’s my plan. Thanks
I think that would be much easier to close the hole where the water goes in with a little bit of silicon...👍😉
Or just use an entire $2 tube of Alex Plus to fill the tube...
Design flaw for sure.
As a fabricator I would recommend welding up the hole. The term “seal weld” was basically coined to keep moisture out to prevent rust.
@@thebigw3377 makes sense.
Cheers
Worryingly for me, it's such an obvious flaw. Makes me wonder what else is going on in other parts of the bike.
@@martinstabrey188 time will tell I guess.
I’m confident there won’t be much else.
Cheers
Could maybe throw some some expandable spray foam down the hole. Let it seal it all up and fill part of the tube
@@Galvoflysoz nah expandable foam will soak up water a keep the moisture in there.
Gracias por mostrar ese problema de la MT. Incluso los japoneses, tendrían que tomar ejemplo en cuanto a diseño y equipamiento de serie. Habrá que esperar a ver su fiabilidad a largo plazo. Para motos nuevas con "problemas de juventud" importantes los que he tenido con las BMWs. (De pesadilla). Estas nuevas motos chinas, tienen actualmente una relación calidad precio muchísimo mejor que las fiables pero caras japonesas. Esta MT, si hubiera salido como 490 Adventure y con la marca austriaca KTM, probablemente, hubiese salido con algún caballo más, algún kilo de menos, pero algo más costosa. Y de las marcas alemanas no quiero oír ni hablar.
La CFMoto MT 450, posee potencia, buen equipamiento de serie, larga autonomía, actualizaciones vía app de móvil, tubeless, buena ergonomía, pantalla ajustable, tomas de energía, escape alto, capacidad de carga, subchasis desmontable, estriberas, cambio, y espejos retráctiles, suspensiones Kayaba largas solventes y adecuadas para uso mixto, electrónica comedida, altura de asiento polivalente desde solo 80 a 87 centímetros, filtros fácilmente accesibles, me parece bonita y sobre el papel buenos materiales y acabados honestos. Es casi perfecta. Solo le falta ofrecer Quickshifter y color verde que me encanta para moto trail. 😀Incluso los japoneses, tendrían que tomar ejemplo en cuanto a diseño y equipamiento de serie. Los fabricantes occidentales y japoneses, ya no quieren fabricar motos así de buenas y sencillas. (KLEs, XTs, DRMs-Zs, DRs, Pegasos, Gesitas monocilíndricas, etcétera).
Creo que solo la KTM 390 Adventure, la Honda CB500X y la RE Himalayan II, están a la altura de la MT, aunque con distintos enfoques. Voge 500 DSX y Benelli TRK creo son más pesadas y asfálticas. Esta CFMoto 450 MT no es moto endurera, como mucha gente afirma, sino trailera asfáltica, con algunas buenas posibilidades camperas. Con algo de dinero se pueden camperizar mucho más. Como las KTM 390 Adv, pero en mi opinión, siguen siendo motos muy pesadas para los estándares del off road duro. Me encanta esa 450 MT y cuando dentro de un año venda mi KTM 390 Adv, que ya tendrá cuatro años y 30.000 km, creo que será la primera de la lista con posibilidades de ir a mi casa.
Un saludo desde España para todos los moteros australianos.
And so it begins. I look forward to owners reviews, in a couple of years time, with 20k on the clock.
They won't get that far on these chinese things
You guys think no other bike has similar issues?
My Honda doesn’t.
My 1987 Aprilia Tuareg 50cc doesn't
@@vaerenberghwrong, it's a KTM engine.
I would even plug the problem with something like sikaflex and stop the water getting in after spraying some rust converter in.
@@roaming-aus yes I am considering doing something like that.
Cheers
You might look at going with some drain holes. Toyota tried to seal up their frames awhile back, water still found it's way in, frames rotted pretty quickly. Best solution was drain holes, not further sealing. Just reminded me of something I've seen before. Best of luck (also the 450mt is near top of my list for next bike. Thanks for the content! Enjoy the ride.
@@barronmoody4416 yes water does that. I went with drain holes.
@@michaelwaddell3209
And if still unsure spray some cavity wax inside the tube and clear the drain hole. Set it and forget it.
If inside is not paint the the rust begin inside. So no drain hole, sealed better.@@michaelwaddell3209
IMO, you did what's required. I will be doing the same as part of installing the B&B bash plate which should be arriving in a few days time. I'll drill the drain holes without taking the subframe members off. May consider wrapping and cable tieing some drain mat material to cover the holes which should allow water to slowly drain out but prevent trail mud and crap from getting in.
@@nevillegreg1 that’s a good idea. My B and B bash plate will also be arriving in a few days!!😁
Most bikes have the same problem good advice thanks
@@ericdawson3425 well at least it’s an easy fix and if all else fails an easy (and probably cheap) part to replace.
Cheers
In all my years of riding (55), I've never seen or had a bike that filled the frame up with water! I've never had a rusted out frame from Japanese or European motorcycles! Its inferior materials and bad design!
These almost cheap motorcycls are going to flood the market! Better buy a brand name soon before the manufacturers start really cheaping out on product to make a $!
@@ronbailey4297 maybe so but…. The big names haven’t made what the people want. It could be this is the kick in the butt they need to produce what the market is asking for instead of feeding us what they want. Regardless of the longevity of these bikes it may be what the market needs at this point of time.
Thanks
@@ronbailey4297Its actually a common problem on Honda Rebel 1100s. Even the Japanese have this issue. They just don't make em like they used to.
Had that on the swingarm of the KTM 990 - I drilled a hole both sides and it was like turning a tap on, both sections must have been completely full. Luckily it was aluminium alloy, but the problem was with the chain adjusters because over time they would rust out inside the swingarm casting and then shear off when adjusted.
@@nockianlifter661 interesting.
Cheers
@@michaelwaddell3209 I would definitely apply ant-sieze to the chain adjuster bolts inside the swing-arm.
These rusted on the 650MT & this model was predominantly used on road.
The 450MT swingarm also have plastic plugs that will eventually age soon enough & will allow water ingress & rust out the remaining thread of the bolts of the chain adjusters.
Do this as a matter of checking any new bike that pretty much all manufacturers apply 0.1 micron of lubrication.
@@stevesanelli90 good to know.
Thanks
@@michaelwaddell3209 it's because steel & aluminium don't mix well
I've been looking at this bike for a bit now (I have Versys-X 300) as a change of ride. As it's fairly new in the market, I've been holding off, waiting for any reports of obvious stuff that folks are reporting as "weak" areas. Water accumulation in the frame is one of those things that really has me questioning the R&D on the bike. I mean, if there's water getting inside the frame, what other stuff on the bike has simply not been thought through enough. (As an aside, that water looks pretty rusty already, which just makes me worry even more).
@@martinstabrey188 yes I agree. Lucky it’s only the frame that holds the bash plate. FYI I’m holding on to my versys for a while.
my 2024 Kawasaki ZX4RR just had a recall for the same issue, the 450MT is a great bike & those "frame rails" are only to hold the bash plate.
@@MrKdr500 I agree, it’s probably not a big deal but good to be aware and deal with it appropriately.
Cheers
@@MrKdr500 Not cool that your bike has had the same thing happen. Still, it bugs me that bikes can have water gather in their metal frame bits (doesn't matter where). It seems like such an obvious thing to take care of during design and manufacture.
This isn't a structural part of the frame, much the same as a crash bar. Drill a drain hole or plug the top if it concerns you.
Good to know, wont be getting a CFmoto 450 any time soon..
hardly a reason to avoid a purchase. It is just the bash plate mounting bars.
@@michaelwaddell3209 And what if its salt water and I'm not in a position to tear the bike apart because I am on an extended road trip like through central America. That shit is going to rust out in short order wont it?
@@spencervidal3168 well that’s why I made drain holes. Now I suppose it will rust at the same rate as anything else on the bike if you put it through salt water.
Good information to know. Thanks for posting.
@@bwlyon Thanks. I think it’s important people know.
Got a question. Wont help if you just seal the top of the tube with silicone before watter manages to enter? I just ordered the bike and was thinking its easier this way
@@GrimReaper333666 that’s an idea but will you be sure you have solved the problem?
In my opinion this is better but each to their own.
Cheers
@@michaelwaddell3209 I would worry about water getting stuck inside myself
I use foam ear plugs if I'm going bush and through water. Cheap, because l get them from work. And remove them when I'm riding the bitumen.
Very, very interesting contribution. He shared the problem with us well. I was also thinking about buying this particular motorcycle. Thanks again!
Me too, i try this bike few days ago.. but i dont know i realy like this bike, but something go wrong with it..
@@freeman9048 I like it. I haven't tried driving it. Tell me what you noticed about him that was not good?
@@slobodanstojanovic5521 bad feeling with the gearbox, and very nervous in 1rst or 2nd gear, can be dangerous on rainy day
Yeah fill with Waxoyl or similar like they used to on chassis frame tubes.
That will be a recall at some point I think. Both sides replaced with redesigned support frames.
@@barrysalmon9892 let’s hope that is the case.
Cheers
Miért nem heggeszted be a lyukat és kész!!!!Így bele megy a víz és rozsdásodik tovább!! 😮
One could, probably beyond me however.
Cheers
Annoying, but this can easily be fixed. I had a similar water collection issue in my 2021 Triumph Rally Pro upper protection bar (stainless though). I think early adopters like you will identify all potential flaws, so in 1-2 years time this bike might become an even more appealing value proposition many has been waiting. Thank you for sharing.
you are welcome
Bloody hell. That is a "should never happen" problem on any motorcycle frame.
@@garyoneill8868 I agree but it is what it is. If this the worst thing I’ll be happy. At least we know about it and can do something about it.
Cheers
Does it only get in if you ride in water or when it rains as well? Also I have one in uk and can't find holes a top of frame?
@@barrysalmon9892 you would need to remove to see the hole. It isn’t visible without removing it. It is at the very top of tube where it gets flattened for the bolts.
it is a bit disappointing that cfmoto didn't foresee this happening. But if this is the only major problem so far, it really wouldn't be a deal breaker. Every make of motorcycle has some sort of design flaw and in the grand scheme of things this is very minor with an easy fix if done before any major corrosion
@@petermclennan2416 I agree.
Thanks
Thanks I’ll stick with my Triumph bikes
You might be able to buy the rubber nipple from the bmw. They started drilling holes in the shaft to release water and they put a rubber breather nipple in the hole to let water out but stop crap getting in
Did not know that. What is interesting in that, is many people are hearing this and deciding that these bikes are cheap Chinese junk because of this issue, yet BMW have had this before...interesting.
@@michaelwaddell3209i cant stand the ccp but its veru tiresome reading comments about every cfmoto being jumk. I've owned 2 and they have been great, 95% as good as japanese bikes and cost way less
Back in the 80’s Honda had the same issue on some of their bikes. Frame sections filled with water, froze and destroyed the frame with expansion. The fix? drill holes in the frame!
Always gonns be something and this does suck! But easy fix. Thanks heaps for your video legend.
@@thanegannaway6313 cheers
Everyone should absolutely do this! The 97-2004 Honda XR250 suffers the same problem but in the main frame. There are some horrific pictures of totally rotted frames out there all because of not having drain holes at the lowest points.
@@MrTench8 wow!
Lucky this is only the frame that holds the bash plate, still not good but a relatively easy fix.
Cheers
I’m wondering if this might have the same problem with the main frame
@@slakk5093 I hope not. It’s a quite an obvious opening so hoping the main frame doesn’t.
Cheers
@@michaelwaddell3209 🤞🤞🤞🤞
Bullshit. Mine is perfect.
But CFMoto will deny future rust issues , it’s a accessory mate .. live with it. Remember it’s KTM
@@queenslander954 of course they will. I’m living with it. It actually doesn’t concern me at all now I am aware of it and have taken steps to mitigate it. Reality is you can probably buy a new set of bars for $100 in years to come. If that’s the biggest issue I have with the bike I’ll be very happy.
Cheers
Either plug hole, make drain hole, or fill frame tube with high expansion cavity wall filler polyurethane foam.
Would it be possible to inject fish oil compound? (old school rest preventive)
Yes it would.
I’ll be doing that.
Cheers
Wow, water in frame...so the frame going to corrode in a years time and will break thus causing the rider to die. Must do a class action suit against CFMoto.
My 2 solutions would be weld up the top or fill that sucker with silicone or a good hydrophobic grease if you dont have a welder, wouldn't take metal away from anything if i could help it.
@@shanekeat7473 I hear you, but it really is only the support bar for the bash plate. If it was the actual frame I would not drill.
Cheers
@@michaelwaddell3209 hey mate, yeah i realise that, but you have the bashplate attached so that will only be as strong as the thing its attached to.
Its just who i am as a fitter turner, tool maker and a welder by trade, i add to fix things instead of taking away.
I'm sure it will be fine but 2 things that could happen, mud and dirt not get trapped in there from going through puddles and dirty roads, the hole now has no paint of it causing it to corrode, because the dirt that gets in will hold the moisture and create corrosion.
2 the hole gets plugged up with crap anyway and you're back to square one.
The best solution is plugging the top hole from the start in my opinion.
I hope it solves the issue Mate. Greetings from South Australia. 😎
I'm sure it will. Greetings back. Thanks
It looks less a subframe more a bashplate holder .....Chinese are always like this they always reach max of 90 percent perfection ..rest is always a question mark .i am.yet to see a Chinese bike that will last times .but initial impressions ate always good . even benelli branded bikes also have lot of little issues
thanks man, i will do to my CM too 🙏🏻
got an mt on order here in the uk(got a bit of a wait). great vid, will be doing this. how about also a spray of wax oil down the tube?
@@garrywhippe7140 I’m going to look into it. I’ll probably use fish oil. The advantage of having the holes is I can now spray it in at intervals as a preventative thing.
I’m sure you’ll love the bike, enjoy!
Cheers
How does the water get into the frame member in the first place? Drain it, dry it, and find the entry point and block it with some sealant from Bunnings (or a piece of chewing gum if your name is MacGyver).
Hole in the top, but hard to get to. I assume that’s the only way. I’m happy with the drainage holes, I can keep an eye on it that way.
Subscribed for such keen eyes of you! tnx mate! you may wanna Email the CF moto and tell them this isuue...
Thanks for the sub!, I think I will do that. Cheers
@@michaelwaddell3209 tnx man!
Its not a part of the frame , nothing concerning
@@georgekokologiannis3783 true, but annoying.
Bet the frame has water in it too
Ive subscribed to give you a boost.
Could you nozzle spray fish oil down from the top of the down tubes? I'd leave the bottom drain holes open to allow moisture to evaporate whether doing river crossings or rain riding. But, fish oil will definitely last longer. Keep us updated. Cheers.
@@stevesanelli90 thank you kindly.
Absolutely you can do that, hole is hard to see but you could do that. That’s what I’ll be doing periodically.
Cheers
@@michaelwaddell3209 I'm guessing you're on the FB aussie group page? Cheers champ.
@@stevesanelli90 yes I am.
@@stevesanelli90 I should post it there.
Cheers
Is this really a big issue?
@@Onceuponatimejotaele no. Something to be aware of that is all.
Question: How hot does those pipes get when the bike is running ? Honestly, I didn't see much water coming out on the video. As they are so close to the engine I would assume any water that gets into them will def be evaporated. Sealing the holes might just do it.
there wasn't much water at all.
Saw another report of this somewhere and the tube was full.
Why not place an all-weather caulking sealant at the entry point? Done.
That's a shame, was really keen on this bike. Are the holes at the top of the frame perfectly round have press fit plugs / bungs made for the openings?
@@idiotbox. no. It’s probably a vent hole for when welding I guess. In the big picture it is only the frame that holds bash plate on. Not as bad as it seems as long as main frame doesn’t have the same issue.
@@michaelwaddell3209 have you checked out the main frame?
I probably spent a week watching videos of Royal Enfield Himalayan 450 vs CFMoto 450 MT and I still do not know which one to purchase....
Please go ride both. Don't rely on specs on paper or what others tell you. I believe both bikes are great bikes. They do however offer very different riding experiences. Make your own mind up based on what feels good to you.
@@michaelwaddell3209 closest test ride is 4hrs away and in mid 2025 for CFMoto....
Neither if you are smart.
@@Boksburg1982 lets say I am not smart, what would you recommend then?
I wonder how you realized there's water inside that piece
@@Alleycat___ it was mentioned to me some time ago by one of me subscribers. Don’t know how he/she knew. As many have commented a lot of bikes get water in parts of the frame and we never know about it or does it cause issues.
Cheers
@@michaelwaddell3209 ty. Subbed , good channel
@@Alleycat___ thank you 🙏
Wouldn't it be easier to seal the top hole wiht silicone??
Yes 😂 🍌🤫
Isnt it a quarantee job? Why you do it yourself?
Interesting question. Most manufacturers will not cover a design flaw. If they did ever time a new model of something came out with better design people could argue the previous had a design flaw. They of course should cover it if it causes a problem. This could take many years to indeed become a problem if at all. Most bikes end up with water in parts of the frame, it is just we normally don't know about it. I would prefer to deal with the problem myself rather than wait for it. At the end of the day these bars are replaceable and probably don't cost much. Is it really a problem? I don't think so.
Cheers
Is there a warranty with these bikes?
@@Boksburg1982 3 years
hi mate you may have some warranties issue with that modification ?
@@laustraliedegillou3727 it’s only the frame that holds the bash plate, I’m not concerned. I’d rather do this than have it rust out in 5 years after the warranty has run out.
Cheers
How did it come in? By driving in (too) deep watter?
@@hermanstokbrood no, I haven’t been through much water or in rain. I’m guessing it’s been there a while.
PMSL...it's touted as an 'adventure bike'...in my book it's supposed to do that...
@@markpavlowski7223 and people moan it doesn't have cruise control 😂 buy a god damn tourer if you need that lol.
No way to block the hole at the top?
@@davmanlop333 yes but still a chance water could get in. I’d rather this approach. Thanks
would not be possible just covering the hole?
I guess you could but the problem is you will never be sure the problem is solved. I prefer this approach. It also gives me an avenue to inject fish oil or similar at periodic intervals. I feel its better to do something than nothing. The choice is yours of course.
Thanks for your comment
Fill it with grease?
@@azizulzulzaha that would be awkward.
All show and no go. So the frames fill with water, rust out, and then they snap on a dirt track. What a piece of shit
you know it is only the part that holds the bash plate on? Time will be the only teller of the full story. I'm happy to wait for the story to unfold rather than guess the ending. Lucky there are other choices of bikes to buy.
perhaps you should stay riding your bmx bike mikey and leave the grown ups to do their thing like sort out minor problems that you find on any manufacturers bikes. Look at ktm for example.
@@markjames3267 ooooo bitchy but i like it 😂
Why drill a hole, just get some sugru and plug the top
There is actually a few holes and cannot guarantee sealing, i feel draining is the best
That’s these are cheaper… less attention to detail, cheap labor and manufacturing cost cutting….
Yeah, unlike every other company who take their time, pay their labour above the minimums, and never try to reduce cost /s
@@thisisabsolutelystupyeah mate. Because we all don't already know that Chinese stuff is generally poor quality. When they have control of their own manufacturing processes things turn to crap. It's only when companies watch them closely that tolerances are followed
@@tonyfreeth2559 you're aware people said exactly the same thing about Japanese bikes when they entered western markets right?
@@thisisabsolutelystup china is a long way away from that sort of reliability
@@thisisabsolutelystup research Cfmoto… and you’ll see after all the time they’ve been around they still continue to make crap. I’m not actually rubbishing them as much as you think,I own a Cfmoto quad… it’s fine for what it is, I wanted a cheap quad that I hunt geese with in salt water, I’d rather ruin that than my nice Yamaha buggy… Cfmoto is a cheap good option. There was a lot more factors involved when the Japanese bikes hit the western markets, WWII was one of them… look at the trade restrictions between Japan and USA that are still in place today because of it…
close to warm / hot exhaust so might evapourate....
@@andyaptc2907 yes it may…. But I feel better having a small drain hole. The heat can do the rest.
Cheers
Sure, but I'd not like it there in the first place, thanks very much.
the water disappear itself with the hot from engine cmon....isnt 5 litres of water imo
you are probably right. I just want to make sure. Cheers
μεγαλυτερο παπα απο αυτο το μηχανακι δεν εχω ξαναζησει στην ζωη μου! το καλυτερο και καλα!!! η καλυτερη σκουρια τελικα!!! παρτε παρτε αχαχαχαχαχα!
Buy a Honda.😮
@@marktintinger7492 I had one…. This is still better. 😉
That's why you don't buy the first model, let someone else find out all the problems with the lemons
Golden rule!, Never be a first adopter, especially with BMW Motorrad products. Lots of marketing not so much developed engineering.
Ktm 990 swingarms...
OMG - THE FRAME RUSTING OUT from within. Cheap nasty Chinese crap again. I'm going to buy the better Royal Enfield
🤥
That isnt the frame!!!! Just put a blob of silicone on the tip of the brace and its fixed. Literally a 2 second job. No drama.
When the frame cracks let’s hope you are not riding the thing. Can’t see these cheap Chinese types lasting beyond the honeymoon. Proven bikes are the way to go, yes they may cost more but there is a reason, it’s called quality.
@@paulroberts9239 well I guess time will tell.
My cfmoto is now 10 years old and still goes perfectly
Another clueless person
@@christopherpekel6096 there aren’t too many people who actually own them that complain. Most complaints come from people who don’t.
@@christopherpekel6096 not clueless at all my friend, bikes made today aren’t as well engineered as they once were, most were over engineered. I’ve been riding since I was 22 and am now 66 having had over 40 bikes and still riding, so I think I’m qualified an opinion on this matter, actually a clued up person.
Buy the Royal Enfield. They dont rust, Cheaper to service, Bigger fuel tank 530km range vs 240 km range. Nasty Chinese shit.
You might have your bikes confused….. I get 240km from half a tank of fuel so clearly you don’t own one or haven’t ridden one. I like the RE but it’s a single cylinder. They have also changed their engine valving from screw and lock nut to shims so no longer the cheaper servicing like the 411. I value construction criticism but clearly you have no idea on this bike.
Cheers
So, why are they selling out everywhere? Let me guess, you are just smarter than everyone else
Muppet
This is my problem with Chinese. At the end, you get what you pay for, no way around it.
I used to love Huawei, great quality. So good that US took them out of the market. Chinese can make great stuff, but won't be cheap. Ask DJI, they know what I'm talking about.
I reeeeally want to like this bike and CF moto, getting this one would cost me half of the other one i have in mind. Who doesn't want to save 6k?
But there's I catch, I do long-distance touring with some night highway. I can't have failures, need a machine I know is gonna get me there even if it's 17yrs old just like my previous bike.
So that's the dilema. Half the price, twice the drama? How did they actually get to that price point? what about the material quality? what about long term?
Those are the questions that will lead me to Japanese. I don't have to ask them there.
CF moto looks promising. Great design and great component selection for the things that matter, time will tell if they really want to dominate the market or are just more cheap chinese products.
I agree, time will be the only teller of the story. Cheers
Typical Chinese junk! Frame will be rusted out from the inside out! Just like most of the Crap they make! The more i hear, the less i am interested in this bike!
You have no idea