Dispelling some Autistic Stereotypes
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Books Mentioned:
The Myth of Normal--amzn.to/3QeCwpT
The Body Keeps the Score--amzn.to/476YqSV
Videos Mentioned:
Autism: An evolutionary perspective, Professor Simon Baron-Cohen-- • Autism: An evolutionar...
The Fight Flight Freeze Response-- • The Fight Flight Freez...
♡𝗠𝗬 𝗘𝗧𝗦𝗬 𝗦𝗛𝗢𝗣♡
Transition Techniques neurodivergent-friendly Guided Workbook
www.etsy.com/l...
Rest & Regulation Guided Workbook for Neurodivergents
www.etsy.com/l...
Discovering your Masks ADHD & Autism Workbook
www.etsy.com/l...
ADHD & Autism Uncovering Your Stims Workbook
www.etsy.com/l...
ADHD-friendly Weekly Planner · Helps with Executive Dysfunction
etsy.me/3NigpLR
☕𝗕𝘂𝘆 𝗺𝗲 𝗖𝗼𝗳𝗳𝗲𝗲: buymeacoffee.c...
♡𝗢𝗡𝗘 𝗢𝗡 𝗢𝗡𝗘 𝗖𝗢𝗔𝗖𝗛𝗜𝗡𝗚♡
🍊selfembark.com
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🌱 TikTok: / irene_selfembark
🌿 Instagram: / self_embark
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I’ve already tried to preface this in the video, but I find myself needing to address it again. This video isn’t meant to encompass every autistic person in the world. Just a specific type of autistic experience. An experience that isn’t talked about enough or represented in research enough either.
I’ve seen some comments trying to claim that I’m invalidating autistic individuals with higher support needs & people who do fall under these stereotypes. I would respectfully disagree. If this is what you got from the video then I feel like you may have completely missed the point I was trying to make.
I think it’s a slippery slope when we begin to invalidate other people’s experiences. Comments that discourages people from wanting to share their own experiences will be deleted. If you feel offended or triggered when another person is sharing their story because you feel like it invalidates your own, then that is something you truly need to sort out in another space.
One experience doesn’t negate the other. Every experience is valid.
@ofhoneydew changing the diagnostic label doesn't change the diagnosis itself as I was diagnosed originally with asperger syndrome prior to the dsm5 being published.
My individual symptoms haven't changed just because AS was all of a sudden struck from the diagnostic definition after all.
We're all trying to do the best we can to live the best life possible and in the end that's what is important.
@ofhoneydew Personally, I would greatly appreciate seeing some content creators with higher support needs. I recently saw a comment about a parent of an autistic person that said their child will "never be able to make content because they have higher support needs and they're nonverbal". Multiple people clapped back with that they can if they get the support!
I think that your comment and the one that's being responded to is a perfect example of how the levels of functioning hurt everyone in the spectrum: it infantilizes/limits those with higher support needs and minimizes the struggles of those with lower support needs. So it ends up becoming this competition of being seen and everyone getting their various needs met when it really doesn't have to be that way 😞
💙
@ofhoneydew It's only very recently that high masking autistics have even had their struggles acknowledged at all. So I think that's one reason why the online discourse is so skewed rn. I agree that we all need to advocate for more support and understanding for higher support needs people and create space for them. The fact is a lot of governments are not doing nearly enough to support these people and their families. It's important to remember though that just because someone can have a relatively normal conversation and keep a job, it doesn't mean they don't have serious needs, even if those needs are mental health needs rather than daily living needs. The suicide rate for low-needs autistic people is ridiculously high.
@ofhoneydew Stephanie Bethany did a series highlighting nonverbal autistic voices, like this interview with Ido Kedar: th-cam.com/video/khCzltMZNqU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=eRC16ktVo1zN4ThY
I think it actually does a great job of LEVELING the playing field, dispelling some of the harmful ideas around "high" and "low" support needs. There are just needs. They differ. Trying to rank a scale of higher and lower needs has often been unproductive. Especially in research. Lumping all of us together under the autistic label has actually opened up fascinating new avenues of research into autism as a neurological disorder, NOT primarily a psychosocial differential (which is a secondary symptom from the primary cause).
I had a therapist (who btw had been working in and out of school systems for 40 years and was advocating for me to get an ADHD diagnosis) say to me "You can't be autistic, because you can make eye contact and have friends and family and a career. And people with autism don't have that." I fired her the next day. Can you imagine a therapist saying this to a parent or a child? The horrible impact that could have?
Sorry for your bad experience. I hope you find a capable therapist soon :)
I had a therapist say something very similar to me after I had her turn around so I could feel comfortable saying "I think I'm autistic." She replied with "but you can make eye contact" and my face turned exactly into that surprised Pikachu meme. Like bro, I'm pretty sure we just established the opposite but okay...
Yes, I had a therapist tell me that. I had to remind her that I faked eye contact by looking at her eyebrows. I had told her that before.
That’s appalling! How can a therapist know so little?
Autistic Therapist here. Can attest that most of my colleagues don't know anything about Autism. Unless you specialize in working with children, it's honestly not really taught in graduate school. I can forgive the ignorance because of the lack of training and research, but cannot forgive the willful decision to not learn more when confronted with new information... including clients able/willing to speak from their own experience, emergent awareness of misdiagnosis/under-diagnoses in certain populations, etc. Any ethical therapist will be willing to acknowledge they need more training/info. Run for the hills if they won't!
The best way I can understand my neurodiversity is the I’m hyper AWARE of everything with basically no filter, which makes sense if our neurons are much more active and have more connections
Anyone else find that they can make eye contact more or less just fine as long as the person isn’t looking at them? I thought my eye contact was fine but then I realised it’s because the people I talk to most (who probably also have adhd/autism) don’t make much eye contact with me so I find looking at them much easier
Yes, looking at people is much easier when they're not looking at you. but when they're eyes meet mine, i usually avert pretty quickly whether in conversation or not.
i relate to this too! i've noticed since a very young age that i NEED to be looking at/facing someone or something in order to process that information being given to me. but in group-settings or one-on-one conversations it really unsettles me when im paying attention to someone talking and they suddenly look at me and i get so uncomfy and creeped out lol. in school, i need to be looking at the teacher to understand their words, while watching youtube videos i need to be facing my screen at all times (dont really have to be looking at it if i've put on something in the background while working/trying to sleep etc). this is why the eye contact stereotype never resonated with me, until i started observing other people interacting one-on-one and oh boy did the realization hit hard lol
Yes! I don't mind looking at someone if they are also moving their eyes around. In fact, it feels like they are communicating more genuinely with me. It's a form of body language that I feel like neurotypicals miss- like I can see when someone is thinking, or notices something in the distance that could be a trigger. Our eyes can meet from time to time to communicate "I am listening and understand you". But with more neurotypicals patterns of eye contact, it's so hard to tell what people are thinking- are they judging me? Trying to hide something from me? Sell me something? It just feels so disingenuous. Now I'm realizing that some people just think that is a normal and casual way to talk to someone.
@@mictoria omfg YES!!!!! 😭😭😭😭 gosh I'm not alone 👁👄👁
Levels of autism high and low functioning are used in ableist ways to deny support or agency
This! Slipped my mind but so true. & concisely said too.
@@thethoughtspot222Also I get overly empathetic people can’t tell me their problem without me getting shut down
“If you’ve met one autistic person, you’ve met one autistic person.”
The empathy thing is a big reason my parents never really considered I could have autism. Now that they've educated themselves, they're convinced I am indeed autistic. (My therapist believes so as well.) I'm thirty years old.
No official diagnosis yet. But I've gone from writing "I'm not autistic, but..." in TH-cam comments to, well... this.
Interesting story
The emphaty part is so real. I have such a huge emotional processing problem that if someone is arguing next to me i will get a panic attack from the anger i feel from them
I hate eye contact because people get freaked out by it. I'll search their eyes for honesty, intention, and micro-expressions that are easy to miss. For me, it's always been a great tool to understand people's emotions, but they think this unwavering eye contact is really intense and creepy. It sucks because I'm high masking and many people have interpreted this as being defiant or instigatory when I'm just listening and trying to take in visual information.
Eesh yeah I think it probably does look creepy or suspicious even though your intentions aren't bad. To be fair anyone that's staring into your eyes that intently does come off creepy and suspicious. Also looking someone in the eyes does not tell if they are being honest or genuine because you're going to run into people who are really good at lying and they will stare straight in the eye.
i do that too and didnt really realise what the strange looks/reactions back were for a long time... I have also tried to explain to my doctors and social workers that my eye contact comes from high levels of ptsd from being out on mean streets from young and eye contact or not at the right times can be very crucial to spare oneself from getting hurt, the same goes for nearly all 'extroversion' i display, its all defensive and a bit faught....nice one,..
ive definitely fallen into the coping mechanism of numbing/shutting down not just my empathy but emotions in general, cause i think back and i used to be really sensitive and cry a lot but- especially growing up AMAB with the expectation of being stoic -i was traumatized out of it. but im slowly trying to get back in touch with my feelings and emotions cause ive just felt like a robot so long
I feel you…
I was hypersensitive but now I have huge dissociation and emotional numbness problems.
But hey I’m working on it, did you tried EMDR ? It is the only thing that has been really helpfull to me (beside creating a safe space to be myself)
Hope you’ll get better !🫶🏼
My mom keeps saying that I have no empathy. This has affected me so much as my empathy is way different. Evrytime I see her cry, I just went to her to hug and cry along with her. She always told me, I do not have to do that as she did not request it and ask why I am crying. Of course, I had no reason as it was not me feeling down. For me it was a way of sharing pain. I keep doing that, but not as often as I always ask before doing it.
You were trying to show that you care, and she calls that no empathy? It sounds like your mom is the one without empathy because she is willing to insult you over something she doesn't even understand instead of trying to see from your perspective.
I would recommend writing down what you typed in this comment, and showing it to her. Maybe then she can understand your intentions. You sound like a very sweet person, by the way. ❤
Your mom sounds like she’s kind of mean bro…. Don’t think you’re doing anything wrong
Wtaf? So you literally show empathy with a hug and CRYING with her, and she has the audacity to claim you're not being empathetic? Sounds like SHE'S the one who lacks empathy and she's projecting, or maybe even gaslighting...
The lack of support because it seems like I can take care of myself is destroying my life. Thank you for talking about this💜
iv experienced a very large amount of difficulty getting support... and even now some is here its very hard to not fuck it up, i may have in fact. Iv had the matter of my former psychiatrist making my eye contact a big obstacle in that my older and incorrect diagnoses can be perpetuated simply while i can do little. nice one...
I dunno if I'm autistic or not but I am neurodivergent ... and I can't hold eye contact without getting super uncomfortable and looking away ... and I have higher empathy than most people
Same, neurodivergent and not sure if I have Autism either, and yeah I majorly struggle with eye contact too, and have extremely high empathy.
Neurodivergency leads to autism or
Neurodivergent = ADHD, Autism, ADD, and any other mental disability. It's an umbrella term.@@allluvin7977
I’m so tired of constantly being babied around because someone decided to take a wiki page as 100% factual. Not every person with autism is the same, the same way not everyone that has a different race is the same. Autism isn’t the same as any other disability because of how vast the spectrum is.
Actually lots of disorders vary a lot. Down Syndrome has people who are at the mental level of a baby who never talk or even crawl. They also have a few people who have gone to college. That is a wide variety. People just want a simple definition for things. Most disorders aren't that simple.
@Lilycat5 I had an uncle with Down's Syndrome, and one of my besties has an adopted sister with DS as well and can confirm, there's a lot of variation there. My uncle was higher needs cognitively (but still verbal) to where he was mentally more like 12-16 even up to his passing in his late 30s, and physically healthy (until he got sick I mean). Whereas my bestie's sis is lower needs cognitively and can hold conversations at a higher cognitive level than my uncle, but she has higher needs physically due to an issue with her lungs and has to carry an oxygen tank everywhere. I've seen people with DS range from high needs and nonverbal to low needs and able to go to college and think/behave pretty much like any other person their own age. I've seen an interview where a guy married a woman with Down's Syndrome, and she was definitely able to attend college and had her own job. But they got judged because ableists assumed she shouldn't be capable of having the mental capacity for marriage, and some even assumed the guy was taking advantage of her because she "isn't capable of fully consenting to romance/sex and doesn't understand it like we do" 🙄
He was actually neurodivergent himself (can't remember of he had Autism or something else, I just know it wasn't DS) but also very high masking and low needs.
I'm tired of the other direction, people thinking me so mentally competent that they dismiss my anxieties and inability to cope with or handle certain things.
Fr, like I only have bad social skills but I'm treated like a dumb kid
The amount of times I've been called dramatic for having a meltdown is staggering. It's been really hard to try and help my partner understand, but he just doesn't. He told me thar he's not in love with me anymore the other day and I've been having to suppress SO many meltdowns because of it. I have currently broken out in hives
Wow he sounds like a toxic piece of sh*t. It sounds like he has no interest in listening to you or caring about your needs. You deserve so much better, and whatever "love" he gave to begin with isn't worth being treated like garbage.
Ugh I'm so sorry you've had such an ableistic and invalidating husband. You deserve better, and he's clearly incapable of empathy and personal growth. Take it as a chance to leave him and find someone better, someone who'll at least put in the effort to understand, and appreciate you for you, instead of trying to change you through verbal abuse.
A few People have said that I act like a princess In a bad way because of certain things I need like , if I’m too hot I freak out and other sensory things and I felt bad about that for years until I realized it’s just autism, can you make a video about that?!
I've also been called "princess" in a derogatory way by my family! I'm waiting for an adult diagnosis for autism right now. I'm sorry you've had to deal with this too - I was made to feel guilty for having physical needs growing up! 💚
I've wondered on an off if I'm autistic for years. A lot these stereotypes are why I hesitate, but your reality resonates, especially and overactive empathy system.
When I have to work in office, I come home, I need to lie under a weighted blanket for 2ish hours because the lights and people and noise just overwhelmed my sensory system so much
For years, I thought that I wasn't autistic because I could read/interpret social situations and peoples intent very well. I had all these preconceived notions about it. Now that I know the truth, i feel SO much better.
I have a deep desire to know the answer to things... and now I feel like I have an answer for myself.
I see many autistic people in the spiritual community, especially where being your authentic self and breaking social norms is practiced. Two years ago I had a life changing experience going to a big cabin trip with 30 people, which started off overwhelming because of the high vibration when we were together but at the end I felt so grounded, so connected with my true self. I was constantly around people but there was no pressure to keep a conversation or be entertaining. I could sit at the dinner table and stare into the air, I could lay on the floor and cry, I could find support, I was seen and it was safe and encouraged to voice my boundaries. Now that I'm learning I'm absolutely probably autistic this makes so much sense! This is the way I want to live and these kinds of communities are out there. I truly believe it is possible to create a world, if not many smaller worlds, where people like us can be free and in alignment with our true self
Got tested for autism earlier this year, the woman who tested me isn’t that experienced with autistic adults tho. She told me by the end that I couldn’t be autistic bc I “could make eye contact” and because I say that I can make small talk if I have to. I CAN, that doesn’t mean I’m GOOD at it or that I like it. Small talk takes so much work for me!!! Also eye contact is a mixed reaction for me, for some reason I can make eye contact with some people easily but with others I can barely look at them. To me it’ll feel like I’m seeing into their soul, or like it’s too intimate. It’s like I can feel too much of their energy. But with people with a super open and kind energy or who I’m comfortable with and used to, making eye contact is much much easier.
I’m sorry to hear about your TMJ issues.
I think it’s quite common with hypermobility disorders because I’ve yet to meet someone with HSD/ EDS that doesn’t have a jaw problem.
Over the years I’ve found that the pain is not nearly as bad if I eat the crunchies in short small amounts over a longer period of time, with about an hour or so between those meals. After each small meal applying a hot pack around the jaw has helped me too.
That’s just my experience though and our bodies are all totally unique! I hope you find a way to eat foods you enjoy with less difficulty 🥺.
EDS is linked to autism.
It is a link between many physical problems and autism.
When you stared into the camera I literally shut my eyes so fast and looked away. Such a chilling feeling in my body.
I know this video is 5 months old, but I want to voice my opinion. I am considered “high functioning” with my autism. I was in this program that was SUPPOSED to help me become more independent. One day, I went in, and the lady said to me, “well since you’re so high functioning, you don’t need support”. It made me so angry. And I went home and cried. I finally cut ties with them in January. I was sick with mono, which I think turned into an undiagnosed autoimmune disease. So I was extremely tired all the time, and just in general didn’t feel good. I went to my last appointment like the 4th of January or something. They spent that entire meeting putting me down, because I “didn’t do anything productive”, and then I cried because I sometimes I get upset when I’m criticized. They raised their voices at me and said “there’s no reason to cry”. Which just made me cry more. I feel so relieved knowing that they are not in my life anymore.
I'm so sick of being called rude for not looking at people. It's not a rude behaviour. If I have to fixate my vision on them, I lose focus on what they are saying. I'm always thinking 'Look at them, look in the eyes, am i looking at their nose?' etc.... And the poor children in the classroom who have their eyes lowered to the desk, processing what teacher is saying to be told to look up, 'look at me when i'm talking to you.' Oh.....
Irene, what you say is SO valid & SO important. I resonate so much with what you say that I question myself whether I'm on the autism spectrum too alongside my ADHD. 🤔
I have a question. I am a late diagnosed girl. 46 years old. My entire life, I have had really bad outbursts when someone is pressing an issue that is really bad on your triggers? So much that they make this turn into a meltdown. And then it can get as bad as a complete shut down if it is allowed to escalate to that level. My parents and siblings do that stereotypical thing, "you're not autistic because..." complete disregard to the diagnosis...it is still a "temper tantrum" to them. I go thru this alone. They do not care. It's more about them.
the empathy thing is fascinating to me. like.. the one time i ever went to a japanese restaurant i was like 5 and upon realizing the lobsters were going to be cooked i could've fucking cried i stg. like.. ironically largely due to my own food issues with arfid and stuff idk if i could properly go vegetarian or something but like it's still just..heartbreaking to me
the lobsters made me cry too
I suffered from panic attacks for quite a while plus social anxiety in the past, so I think I can imagine what it must feel like to be in a panic state while talking to someone. Most people who demand you to make eye contact would probably freak out when they would have to do this! They send people through pain and they have no idea about it, because they don't care!
Very insightful about the eyes needing to do specific things to process and I strongly identify with both expressions of empathy: I Vote Part 2 🖐
Hope you feel better soon irene you are awesome and beautiful as you are and you're autism is equally valid love your channel
The way you described things @15:44 is absolutely perfect. I have clipped it to explain to people in the future if need be lol! Thanks for taking the time to make the important content.
I think you're absolutely right. What's happening is that our brains are constantly doing way way more processing than theirs are.
I didn't feel you were invalidating us at all! Quite the opposite. I loved this video! It was validating - in my opinion. I've come across all these problems. Not just the stereotypes you talked about, but the problems you talked about first. Like always being expected to do more than I'm really able to, and if I do manage to struggle through and succeed in something really really difficult for me, it's never appreciated. They just expect something harder and act like it should be easy. Again and again. Harder and harder. We're never acknowledged for our efforts, or appreciated for what we accomplish.
Not me just now realizing that I spent most of my journalism career in shutdown mode.
Yes please make a part two! I highly related to what you said. I’ve always scanned the room or sometimes even someone’s face/body language when receiving a lot of sensory input and been bothered that it can across as rude or indifferent. Also on the empathy note, I feel empathy in every cell… it can be extremely overwhelming or sometimes it can be so overwhelming i’ll seemingly have no reaction. I just want to say a huge thank you for all the content you put out. It has been so helpful and your page is such a great resource! Thank you!
So relatable! 😮 I walk away from face-to-face meetings sometimes with NO IDEA what they told me, because I couldn’t concentrate on what they said, I was just concentrating on not looking away. What’s interesting (and stands to reason) is I don’t have this problem during online meetings because I don’t have to look at their face, I can look anywhere on my screen.
This sucks! I don't even be lookin' at folks sometimes and my mind just zones out. I try my hardest to stay present but it doesn't work. I often hope I'm not later asked about what was stated bc I'm a terrible liar yet honesty might hurt the other person if they don't understand.
New subscriber here. Your discussion on eye contact was spot on for me! In the past I thought I couldn't be autistic because I can make eye contact, it just makes me uncomfortable if I do it too long, and I have to look around in order to process things. I've always found stuff like job interviews and socializing very difficult because people would always think I was very nervous because my eyes would move around and I might show signs of "fidgeting", so I had learned to mask a lot of that. The problem with masking those, is that it would take so much energy that I would be too drained to really contribute or comprehend the conversations.
I also agree with the emotional intelligence discussion. I especially related to when I feel so much emotion that I don't know how to respond appropriately and people think I'm selfish or rude because of how I respond to try to relate to them.
*I was diagnosed autistic only a few years ago at age 32. I hear that's also common with us females often getting late diagnosed because of stereotypes, especially when we are "high masking."
Ahhh... That bit about being really empathetic really hit me...
Currently been really struggling due to my friend currently struggling a lot with their mental health. I'd really want to be there for them and help them but I can't and being around them is causing me to just be in a perpetual state of being hyper aware of everything I do and say so that I don't make them feel worse in addition to feeling their feelings too which is also making me feel anxious, awful and panicked and it's just been too much for me to handle and I haven't really known what to do.
Thankfully I've somewhat managed to talk to them about it and they understood, so rn I've been trying to spend more time by myself or with my other classmates at school but ahh, it's still been difficult to know exactly how to go about things .w.
Right now they've been doing better thankfully, so it's been easier to be with them, but I guess I still have some other struggles related to who knows what that are still making it exhausting for me to spend time with them currently and I really want to get to know my other classmates better, so ahh, things are just very stressful right now for me.
Had a bad therapist tell me "you can't be autistic because you can make eye contact!"
I would like a part 2. I must say that one thing that I admire from you as a youtuber is the fact of not making eye contact with the camera freely. I am so used to make eye contact that I can't imagine myself doing it like that. Great for you! It's a signal of being a brave woman.
I find this video very enlightening. I relate to some autistics traits while I wasn't so sure of others. The fact that you demystified what's going on with eye contact made me realize that I process information this way but different from other autistic people I've encountered. I tend to look up when I'm in deep thought but I'm sure my eyes may be moving elsewhere too. I'm going to try to monitor this the next time I become aware. The fact that you connected this to EMDR is so fascinating.
I'm really starting to think I am autistic. Listening to autistic experiences, I feel like I could relate to a lot of them while still being my own unique individual self. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the matter.
Just found your account and this is the most useful information I’ve come across since my diagnosis two years ago. Going to watch all your videos now 🤩
One that I’ve gotten when I’ve described myself as self-diagnosed is “you don’t have sensory issues around food because you eat so many different foods and textures” and I learned recently from a ND tiktoker about “sensory seeking.” And THATS how I am. I never related to hating like peas or onions bc I love those things, but I’ve always noticed that I hate eating the same texture over and over and I prefer a dish or a plate of food that has several different textures because it all starts to taste bland and boring to me and I’ll feel nauseas if I have to keep eating the same texture with every bite.
This makes so much sense, and I think I'm the same way with food.
To the point that if I have to eat the same thing every day or even every other day, or similar things with the same flavour profiles, I'll literally get easily tired of it to the point of it becoming increasingly difficult to eat the same thing. First I'll get increasingly bored but then I'll actually start to feel sick when trying to eat it. And I'll literally get SO excited at having different options to choose from my usual foods, such as fruits and veggies.
My family grew up in poverty so that's how I learned all this, I've experienced having no choice but to eat the same limited and cheapest foods in rotation for **years**
Me with IPAs
Empathy overdrive into burnout describes years of relationship troubles for me... someone I had a sort of relationship with lost 3 family members in a very short amount of time, and seeing them in that much pain almost broke me. There are many times especially in realms other than romantic relationships where I felt my emotions were not what they should be or I didn't totally understand them, but thinking back... In Castaway when the actor lost his volleyball, I was completely, completely distraught. It absolutely broke my heart that his only friend had been lost at sea. My first real infatuation/crush/love was very intense to me. Would be very interested in a part 2!
Instead of stereotypes I feel like we should just call these things as "Autistic Misnomers" Because it is the Neurotypical society labeling us incorrectly, imo calling these stereotypes can negatively affect autistic people (like me) who ARE low-no masking, medium-high support needs. Many people assume that ALL autistic people are like the only version of autism they have seen before, not varied and diverse as everyone else on earth. Irene mentioned that she feels unseen wrt being a higher masking autistic, and while that is 100% vaild and i dont disaggree. I think that autistics who are higher masking, medium-low support needs need to be aware so that they arent distancing themselves from low-no masking autistics with medium-high support needs. Yes most of the research done by neurotypicals, on autistics who are more likely to be low masking high support needs, but most of the online/social media autistic commentary, peer research, community IS the higher masking, medium-low support needs autistics and maybe these types of autistic people dont see this divide, but for those of us who do I just wanna say, Youre seen! if you speak or dont! If you cant mask, cant empathize or make eye contact youre seen! If you need a caregiver, cant work, cant do much by yourself! Youre seen!
You bring up really valid points. Something for me to continue to ponder on and figure out how I can continue to integrate. Sometimes I feel like I cannot personally speak on the behalf of other Autistic individuals who have a very different spectrum--it doesn't seem right or moral. I've seen some creators make blatant statements on the behalf of "all autistics" and I try to avoid that. But I also don't know how to be more inclusive or less "distancing" in a respectful way. Open to your suggestions or anyone else who wants to chime in!
Thank you! This is what I wanted to say but didn't express quite right! I am low masking as well.
During the pandemic was the first time in my life that I was able to unmask. I don’t know if I’m autistic, but I’m pretty suspicious. My siblings, one parent, and other relatives are. My dad (who is from Japan) didn’t get diagnosed until he was in his seventies. Do you have any thoughts on Asians getting diagnosed. I fear that we escape notice in school and healthcare because of not only masking but cultural differences. All my friends have also told me I’m not autistic, it’s like because graduated and work they just can’t believe. But I have met other autistic adults and who have gone to college. I have adhd, anxiety, depression…it’s a lot. I’ve become kind of a antisocial also because if being bullied for looking and being different in my community.
Thinking of making a video on this topic eventually
Cultural differences definitely play a role. Growing up nearly every Asian person around me didn’t really get diagnosed even though I’m certain all of my siblings are neurodivergent, not just me and my younger sibling. But yeah, the school system and just these systems in general are not setup in a very good way to say the least ❤💓💗
Stereotypes negatively impacted me to the point of anger & bitterness! Probably stay with me for the rest of my life!
Every day is a performance.
I've outright told people before when frustrated. "Do you want me to listen or do you want me to adhere to social norms?"
"Because I don't listen with my eyes".
Sure I do it to keep up appearances most of the time. But I struggle to actually listen when I do.
So if its something serious that needs my attention, I have to look away. Because at that moment I'm focusing with my ears, not my eyes.
Also yes, I have emotional intelligence. I fact I'd argue I'm more empathetic than most people.
So many times in my life I've cared about someone or something & people have acted like I'm being stupid.
A neighbour for example that lets his rabbit just run around the street. Even had a delivery driver ask me about it, as it ran in front of his car & he was worried that it got lose. Good guy. He never did anything about it. Some people shouldn't have animals.
I may APPEAR like I don't have emotional intelligence. My face is less expressive than most, my tone can be monotone & I can be quite stiff.
But I FEEL it, I can feel emotions in the atmosphere & can read people in person remarkably well.
If people cannot see a thing, it doesn't exist. The irony of saying we're not emotionally intelligent when so many neurotypical people need it to be blatantly shoved in their face for them to recognise its reality.
To too many people, they hear "autism" & they picture extreme cases of downs syndrome in little boys.
If you don't fall into that, or you don't have anything visual, you're not autistic. Its maddening.
I think the empathy thing is just a misunderstanding because it is tied to our way of responding. I have extreme empathy if I can relate to the problem, which I can in most cases, but if it relates to something that I don't understand then I can not "fake" empathy like neurotypicals do.
An example is that i don't want children, never did. So if someone is struggling to get pregnant and is really upset about it i feel sorry for their distress, but I can not relate so it is hard for me to feel empathy because I can just not feel wanting a child at all. I would immediately donate my womb to someone in this position if I could but medicine is not that far yet.
I also agree with you that our way of showing seems to be "selfish" as we compare to our experiences and how we got through it or how WE would deal with it. We wanna help, but it looks like "me, me, me".
I think it has to do with the way we grew up. We had so many issues that we had to tackle ourselves and crying about it often at most earned us a "why are you so sensitive" so we want to "save" the people we love from that experience and rather give advice on how to fight through it.
Here's an interesting think we had a work on mental health. We had 1/2 day session and one of the things they talked about was depression. They talked about how people with depression many times don't show it in public but when alone fall apart. They mask their depression to show up at work. To go out friends but inside they are depressed and go home an an deal with depression alone. That's exactly how I feel with autistic traits, I'm not depressed I can just be myself at home.
This video helped connect some dots for me. Thank you. I was outrageously apathetic as a teenager and always thought that it was because I had to learn how to be empathetic as an adult. Turns out it may have always been there. I’ve never taken my stuffed animals or other toys in to consideration when remembering childhood empathy.
I completely agree with you, exept for the point on the existence of the level system. I agree, low support autistics can feel VERY left out of media representation and their feelings can be constantly invalidated. However, the level system exists for the purpose of how much support a autistic person needs. It is important to know that higher support needs cant really "control" their autism. Their traits are much more severe and they require constant support and help from others. They cant do most of their basic ADLs, let alone live on their own or do jobs. Their autism is inherently disabling and impairing to them. Thats why there does need to be a distinction between HSN and LSN autistic people and the level system should exist. And levels only determine how much support one needs. Low support doesnt mean no support, and your struggles and experiences are valid. But its still important to remember your struggles are not the same as others even with your same condition. Sorry for the long para, but I just found the point about the level system to bother me
Edit: i saw your videos part 2, that is amazing that you are trying to learn and educate yourself more. Its great to see someone who doesnt act like they are speaking for everyone with a neurodivergent disability when its not true. And its also great you responded to it in a pretty proper manner, have a good day!
Nobody wants to look fractured and we are constantly polishing ourselves with mental health makeup. My school told me intellectually capable and I am still living with the trauma
These autistic stereotypes made it hard for me to accept my autism diagnosis. I can make eye contact, but it's uncomfortable and can't be maintained for very long. But the fact that I can force myself at all indicated to me that the diagnosis must be wrong. I have a lot more empathy than I've seen in most people. I just don't know how to express it very well. But the fact that I have empathy again made me think the diagnosis must be wrong. Or if the diagnosis wasn't wrong, then I thought my autism must be very mild. But that made me feel like a failure because I struggle so much. Stereotypes really cause a lot of harm.
I love your videos, they are cool, educational and I thank you so much for your work and for your voice. Sending you love
The monotropism theory of autism explains the eye contact in my opinion. Eye contact can be so distracting or even overwhelming since our attention is so intense and focused.
I have never heard anyone else explain how my empathy is as well as you. Thank you for these videos
Our internal lives are considered a secret, but we still experience emotions like everyone else, maybe even more concretely. Having that EQ and overall intelligence makes us process things more acutely too, and overthink at times because of it. It can be a blessing and a curse, but we just need to figure out how to live at the right pace that works for us.
Thank you for this 💙
Please make a part 2.
You have such a good way of discussing topics and conveying them. I can resonate with some of the content you've discussed here.
I think you've highlighted the danger in rigidly sticking to a generalised concept of what it is to be autistic. It won't fit everyone, in much the same way that a specific type of medication can have such different and varying reactions from person to person. And that maybe, there is a lot of information out there, relied upon for different purposes concerning autism, that really needs an update to become better informed.
It would be really interesting/ helpful, to see how being AuDHD impacts the traits you have spoken about as well, or may impact those traits. Especially as being AuDHD can combine so differently for people and what they experience.
Please make a part 2, I love your videos!
Thank you. It was very informative. I understand the empathy thing. I usually don't express emotional distress over another person's trauma. I will how ever try to help in some way.
U have a beautiful smile even with the jaw pain hope u get better
Good thing that my first scientific paper will most likely be about autism.
there‘s honestly so many things that keep making me think i might also have autism besides adhd, but I‘m so scared of talking to a professional who only knows the stereotypical way of “having autism” and who will shut me down. Cuz I already had that talk with someone and they ruled it out because during the only test they were willing to do with me, where I had to guess the emotion of a person based on pictures of their eye-expression, I was able to say something and didn’t take too long. Which is ridiculous in my opinion bc at my age (21) you could think about the fact that I learned to do that.
If you're willing to retry you can go to the psychology today website, look up your city and qualified clinicians who have years of experience with Autistic folks. There are some who aren't stuck in the past or unwilling to change. It took me years to find the right clinician and even she had her shortcomings. If you have insurance, you can call them but specify you're in search of clinicians experienced with Autistic adults. Also try your nearest Autism Society organization. This is only if you're gonna retry. No pressure and take your time. I hope you find answers.
as someone whose relationship to eye contact can change depending on the situation or convo at hand, what you feel makes sense. it's pretty easy for me to turn words to imagination and thoughts, but I do alot of times need to take that step away, whether it's physically or mentally to get all my thoughts together and respond accordingly (especially when given directions or instructions). so you moving your eyes around makes total sense omg 😭
I'm not diagnosed audhd btw, not sure if I have it or not. but when I come across vids like this it's interesting to find things I relate to
I was at school, and it was at this class that is required talking about careers, and we were doing a pretend job interview, and a teacher graded me lower on this assignment because I didn’t give eye contact.
Its fascinating when you start understanding the neurology of autism. Its well worth watching someone like Simon Baron-Cohen. The reason we dont make eye contact when we are thinking or feeling is because we have far more neural connections and extra branches to our nerves too so we are dealing with both additional stimuli and our brains are in hyperdrive in terms of processing. We cant do eye contact etc too because we have to reduce stimuli as much as possible. OMG you used the exact video clip that I was thinking of when I wrote that comment! Great minds think alike
On a different matter...are you hypermobile? If you are and are having issues with your jaw it might be worth looking at EDS. EHLERS-Danlos Syndrome is a connective tissue disorder and it is highly correlated with being neurodivergent. I have 4 ND kids and they all have either EDS (those born female) and Marfans (those assigned male at birth).
OMG your psychiatrist should have been taken off the medical register. How dare they say that to you. Autistic people are completely able to be empathic, in our own way. Our way is not less empathic, it is just different. I actually think we are highly empathic, thats why we feel so upset and angry about unfairness, injustice and unkindness. We try to do things to help, we are practical people who see patterns and ideas in a different way from NTs. Again, we are experiencing so deeply that a focus on other people's emotions need to be distracted from in practical ways because if we focus on the emotion we get overwhelmed.
This an amazing video.
Thank you, I literally said "not being liked can feel like death" and the other person said it was because of my adhd and rejection sensitivity, "it's not an autism thing."
Please make a part 2.
Me, listening to some very important discourse from another autistic perspective:
My autism: SHE HAS A SQUIRTLE!!
thank you for bring this topic, I'm interested of knowing more about this, so waiting for part two ♥
Great video ! I would enjoy a part two
I am on the autistic spectrum and I have Schizoaffective Disorder. My mixed ethnicity (Black & Asian) and illness has complicated my story with autism. I have struggled with eye contact, communication, and all the other classic symptoms alongside psychosis, auditory hallucinations, and depression. And I was bullied severely growing up and my college experience was not normal.and placed in IEP classes my school did poor job addressing my issues
Thank you so much for your video Irene. I've been diagnosed with adhd last year and have rejected the idea of being autistic as well, because of the stereotypes and not being able to grasp what it means completely, esp the combination audhd. yet I've been finding too many things I struggle with that adhd just does not cover. Thank you for sharing your personal experience, which in the end is not even so personal, as it is recognisable for many.
another thing. I hope you'll allow me to request from your viewers that if they want to buy the books you provided links to on amazon, that they buy them specifically not from there, not to want to get too deep into it in your comments but regarding the genocide happening, they are liberally funding and supporting it. I understand they may be affiliate links which are important for your livelihood, but maybe you know any other stores that you can make such a deal with? i don't know about the practicalities of that at all and really don't want to bother you either. I'm just hoping it could make a small difference. And Gabor Maté would likely approve.
What sucks is the first time I told my first psychologist I thought I was autistic she used these two things as the key reasons I am not. But you make eye contact and you’re too empathetic!!! It hurt sooo bad and was so invalidating being told that.
Wonderfully insightful, thank you so much for all of the work and care you put into it. Just connecting the dots for myself and your channel has been indispensable . ❤🙏
I just want to express my gratitude for the fantastic job you're doing with these videos. I'm graduating in psychology, and this is what I need to enhance and innovate in this profession: an internal perspective. We need to share and grow together. Science must begin to dismantle the colonization of bodies. Unfortunately, it's still a struggle, but it can become a collaboration.
I resonated heavily with your personal view on eye contact!!!
But I instinctively shied away from making a lot of eye contact instead of forcing myself to. But when I do force myself the same thing happens to me!
Many of the points you made in this video were very relatable.
Ooof, I needed this one today. Not gonna expound, just thanks.
part 2 pls!!
This eye contact thing ist SO annoying. When I was younger, my dad always told me to "look him in the eye and listen" like, of course I can make eye contact, and of course I can listen but I can't do both. And that's something I've just noticed lately, the same thing in school. It's a lot easier to follow when your teacher doesn't remind you constantly to "pay attention" as if I was only able to listen when I looked straight to the board.
When you mentioned Gabor Mate I thought yes, I haven't read his books yet but I've watched a lot of interviews with him and it's all very interesting. I'm not sure if he's correct about his thoughts on ADHD though, I've noticed a lot of medical professions will have their own take on neurodivergence and some of it doesn't sound quite right. But I guess we're all still learning.
I haven't finished the video yet but I just realized that this past year I've been making extra effort to make "eye contact" at work because I would notice a lot of coworkers looking in the directions I would look at while we were talking and it would honestly get kind of embarrassing. Well fast forward and I've been having so much trouble (compared to before) listening and processing when other people are speaking to me and now I'm wondering if it's because of this 😅 might go back to not caring about eye contact and see if that helps my "listening" problem. Awesome video thank you for your insight!
"But you make eye contact" No, no I don't. I am looking at your forehead. 😂
I'm a fix it person. I tell people that if they just want to vent to let me know, because I default to peoblem solving.
Sometimes the way people help you to overcome problems is looked down upon because it can be understood as the other person thinking they know better how to go through the problem you're having. When the reality is that, given your abilities and situation, you are going through your problems the way you are already going through them, and you just share your problems hoping you will really SHARE them and feel company in the process. Instead of someone still looking at your problem through their abilities and situation. I think company and understanding needs to be noticeably the first and most important think we give. And giving tricks to overcome problems is a less important idea that comes to our mind once we are in the same team that is in the shared problem. It's hard to do it that way and I think nobody does it perfectly.
Awesome vid ireneeee
I don't know if I have autism, ADHD, AuDHD or what but I've always felt like there's something "wrong" in heavy quotation marks with me. What you said about empathy really strikes home with me, but I can't really put my finger on it. I DO have empathy, but I feel myself being somehow emotionally distanced from it. It's really hard to explain but I feel like I have to stop myself from getting any deeper into other people's feeling or I will get sucked into it and won't be able to deal anymore internally, so I have to stop the feeling and remain "cold".
On the other hand when I was a pre-teen I had to go to therapy because everything in the world affected me so much - when my relatives' puppy died I couldn't stop crying all day. When I accidentally drowned a silverfish (the bug, not an actual fish) in the bathroom I would stare at it and cry. This was a 3mm little insect. The therapist's advice was "how about you just don't". Thanks, that was helpful....
Recently my younger sister broke up with her boyfriend and I went over to help. I was so happy to clean and cook for her and listen to her when she needed an ear, but she would constantly get angry and upset with me because I didn't respond the way she expected. I guess I was trying to solve things and it came across too rational for her. In the end I would just shut down and not say anything at all because I clearly wasn't capable of giving the right words. This while all the while I was feeling so bad for her and empathising with her sadness. I felt horrible and quite hurt, actually. So yeah I really do have quite a complicated relationship with empathy, it geniunely isn't as simple as having or not having it.
part 2 would be lovely.
So helpful thank you...
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this 🥹
Thank you
The idea that autistic people can't empathize is asinine.
My son 10 years old, has so much love for his plushy toys and favorite bord and card games. That if it gets damages, hit a little bit or accidentally drop he gets upset and sadhe also Apologize he is drops it aswell. Now I understand his affection are true for him. Thanks for the information.
audhd people are always THEEEEE most sensitive, empathetic, justice minded and emotional people I've ever met. I'll never understand where the "they don't have feelings" stereotype comes from
So relatable 😭
Love your work.
Cheers!
I run into the stereotypes... like every autistic person has dulled emotions and are like robots and all work as engineers. Nah...I'm a man who is on the spectrum and have deep emotions that I've learned to mask hard to get along with societal norms and not get taken advantage of. It sucks that people can't think in nuances more. Thanks for this.
When I have to empathize with my partner, to help her neurotypical emotional regulation, i can't hold a conversation at the same time. While feeling the emotions, they are so intense it takes my focus to really feel and understand them. The best i can do is try some very basic active listening, simply repeating the things she says, at times word for word because i can't process well enough to rephrase at the same time. In the past i've been a chronic problem solver, i think because feeling through the emotions during the time of support is so difficult, i was just trying to make the problem go away. It's been a huge conflict in the past, that i can't meet her NT socioemotional regulatory simply because that support takes too many simultaneous cognitive processes. I guess NTs can mostly feel and think (or talk, listen) at the same time, but that's a quick trip to shutdown mode.
As for eye contact.. I think I stopped caring a long time ago. During my career as a line cook (10 years), it wasn't really necessary because most talking happened while performing some rote task (like chopping vegetables) which requires the use of your eyes (to prevent chopping off your fingers). I also ended up working many positions alone (1-person kitchens, early morning baking/pastry shift, morning prep), which was probably more of a relief to than i think i realized at the time.
I think ultimately there are enough nice NTs out there, that if you explain more explicitly what you can and cannot do, they are flexible enough to get used to the "weird" and see through social miscues to the talented, motivated, and hard-working person behind.
TBH, I still don't know how to deal with bullies and assholes, though. They usually send me straight to either shutdown or meltdown, and if the meltdown emotion is anger, it's usually a reflection of their emotionally violent behavior and is not a pretty sight.
i am the same way as you with eye contact. my eyes need to go everywhere.
it feels like i'm constantly just zoning out because being present is too much for me. my skin is very directly connected to my mood (eczema); i am very sensitive in general and whenever i feel An Emotion it likes to have a say on it too... so over time i've ended up just completely being numbed out so i minimize riling up my skin
of course now i'm treating my eczema and slowly learning how to be a human being again... but boy is it tough
I do believe that every person is different autistic or not. I also believe that every person should be treated in an individual manner. Eye contact or empathy are not a criteria to diagnose someone with autism. Autism is a spectrum that means it includes a multitude of signs and symptoms the manifestation of which vary from person to person. I am neurotypical I do catch myself multiple times not making eye contact with my clients when I am talking with them because I need a space outside of their eyes to focus and put my thoughts together while I am expressing them. But that doesn’t make me autistic. I do not show my feelings and emotions and many people told me I am cold attributing that to my culture. However culture or not this is the way I am and that doesn’t make me autistic ever.
One or two traits of autism do not make you autistic.
If you have many traits of autism then maybe you have autism.
As an autistic I agree with the stereotypes. 😢 there’s just something uncanny of being autistic that is all I won’t elaborate further