Great edit. I know a lot of blokes like to get on the tools and have a crack. You do tend to make it look easy but I'd end up taking skin off my knuckles, paint off the bike or cross threading something. Good to see you getting time for the videos and the editing. I've missed a few calls from you guys over the past few weeks in regard to my breakout options and the Lowrider service. We'll get something sorted soon mate.
A true craftsman of a H-D technician .. can see ya take pride in your work... I just sussed how long it would take to ride back from there, if I got new ride and work done 🤘😁
Awesome vid, very interesting all the mechanical & upgraded parts, to make one tough motor, & making a trye shedding beast, fantastic work Tommy as always cheers 👍👌
Love your vids and look forward to them coming out. I just stroked my Dyna 88 to a 107 with a darkhorse crank and just waiting on Dyno this spring. Only thing stock on that bike is the lower case. Lol
Great video, thanks for posting it. I know you said you trued the crank, but do you happen to know how tolerant of runout the SE plate is? S&S wants .005 or under, and Fueling wants even less I believe. Mine is .004 with .001 at the bearing so I didn't use S&S when I built mine, sticking with the OE 8 lobe pump. However if the SE kit is less sensitive then the aftermarkets, I'd jump on it. Thoughts? Thanks!
@@MasterTechMiller I appreciate it. I want an upgrade from stock on my 124, so it sounds like the SE is a better choice than S&S with my .005 total pinion runout. Thanks!
Thanks for the link to this thread. My mechanic wants to install the S&S Cam shaft kit but I have to wait a year before we check the runout and see if its within spec. I have a 2022 FLHXS. What are you typically seeing in runout? Im very much leaning towards stock OEM, or SE parts.
I installed the SE Pro Camplate system into my Fat Boy 114 that was made in 2017 because it had the oldest version of the stock oilpump. I never did measure the crank run out. But the SE pump system doesnt have any statements of how much run it it needs to be under. I'm wondering if this is at all a bad idea. I did rotate the crank shaft half a dozen times between bolt tightening sequences to give it as much of a center as possible. Hand Snugged, rotated it several times, then level1 clutch on my drill tightened, rotated the crank shaft several more times, tightened the pump afterwards the same way, then started tightening things down to 100inch lbs. waited for 15 minutes then 110 all around in pattern sequence like everything before. There was no feeling of grinding binding or anything to that degree. Just wondering if it's probably fine for most bikes or if this is possibly a ticking timebomb. I can't imagine that Harley would market it without some at least asterisk about run out. I have heard of S&S pumps and Feuling pumps creating problems with run out, but I havent yet heard of any with the SE pump. I cant imagine HD would clearance it for a small amount of bikes and would give it more "wiggle room" than the SE and Feuling ones. The fact that everyone is switching to the SE pump and plate makes me pretty confident it was the right choice to make in the end. I'll check it again once I get my Woods 22XE cam here to install, any idea on what I should look for if it needs to be removed?
The service wear limit for crankshaft run out is 12thou from memory so I would assume that would be the limit for the SE Cam plate kit. In saying that though, if you found 12thou of run out on your crankshaft you would not be installing the cam plate without some serious consideration of addressing the crankshaft first. Typically, I see crankshafts with anywhere between 3 & 6 thou of run out from new or even upto 50,000km so I would be very confident your crankshaft would be ok. It sounds like you have installed the pump & plate correctly so there is nothing to worry about.
@@MasterTechMiller Thank you for taking the time to read and respond! You've been a lot of help through out your videos answering my questions and I'ved loved hearing your opinions on the bike parts and seeing the bikes you build.
Just found this and your channel. I subscribed. I watched this video, and a few others, and read instructions when I installed the SE cam plate and pump. When all installed, my cam does not turn freely. I tray to turn it with my fingers and it is not easy to do, but does turn. Is this normal, or should the cam turn freely with must my fingers?
@@MasterTechMiller after I posted this, I took it all apart again. I cleaned the cam "hole" on the plate with steel wool, and did the same with the end of the cam. Cleaned all that off and without lube put the cam in the cam plate. I held the plate so the cam was facing straight up, and i to it to do a slight spin...about 3/4 turn. Put it all back together and I was wondering, as I fired up my computer if the lube would make it really snug. guess it did.
do you put on adjustable pushrods with your 131 kits with a CR 512? Had 2 lifters go out already and only have 2800 miles on her and they did use adjustable pushrods. i was glad it didn't blow a valve. idk one mechanic said you must use adjustable pushrods ... please advise me. thanks
The CR512 runs the stock base circle of the cam so you do NOT have to use adjustable pushrods with the CR512 I reccomend using them anyway as they are stronger than the OEM ones.
im keen to see the new tts kit. apparently superchargers run cooler than trask turbo kits. off topic, but what fork covers are on the strut tops? does the screaming eagle cam plate have brass bushing like the fueling?
I sure do. Just remove the 2 outboard plugs & leave the fuel line disconnected. You can hold the start button down for as long as you want. The BCM will only allow the engine to crank for a maximum of 10sec before you have to release the button and hit it again
You familiar using the SE Stage 2 Tune? I’ve noticed since I flashed with that tune my cold start RPM’s start at 2500 then drop to 1400 then idle normal around 900. Have you seen this with that tune?
@finnsgarage2287 unfortunately there is no adjustment available on the idle speed, or warm up enrichment circuits with that device. Nothing you can do about it, it's just the way that tune is setup. If you change to something like the Direct Link key from Technoresearch or a PowerVision you will be able to have full adjustability over the entire tune
@@MasterTechMiller thanks man for the response and understand. I guess the 2500 RPM range is normal with this tune as I seen a couple others indicating the same thing. Once the warranty is up I will look another tune option 🤘
Awesome videos. I’m gonna be doing the 131 on my lowrider st… contemplating between the 512 or 540-2 cycle Rama! If I go 540 would it require heavy duty springs or are the ones that come with the 131 suffice? Would you recommend the billet SE cam plate and oil pump vs the s&s?
The CR512 is the best 'drop in' cam for the 131ci engine. The CR540-2 requires a significant increase in compression ratio due to the intake valve closing later than the 512. The 540-2 will make more peak HP than the 512 with the right exhaust choice. I have videos on my channel featuring both these cams in 131 engine so check them out if you like? I highly recommend the SE Hi volume oil pump and cam plate over the S&S option.
@@miked5527 you will need an aftermarket tuning device for sure. There is no way the SE map will have enough adjustment for the CR512 or CR540-2 Camsahfts. I highly recommend the Maximus tuner from Technoresearch
The lifters are Screamin' Eagle, the lifter cuffs are the billet alloy S&S option, then using a the SE cam plate & oil pump. The pushrods in this engine are Screamin' Eagle adjustable and I don't have a preference over S&S or SE in that regard. I mainly use SE components as I work in a dealership and I do believe they have high quality manufacturing processes that produce outstanding components. To be 100% honest, I am not a huge fan of S&S but they definitely do make some great products like their 'Quickee' adjustable pushrods & billet lifter cuffs.
Chain drive cams are in all honesty very over rated. There is NO benefit whatsoever to using one. Guys argue that the timing is more accurate, however that statement is voided due to valve train flex & rocker arm ratios. The OEM chain drive cam on the M8 engine is absolutely fine to use on high performance applications. 👌
What's the acceptable run out on the crank when re using the stock harley cam plate and pump? S&s pumps are crazy tight. Wondering if it's different or?
Putting a Zipper's 128 kit with a 468 cam in my 114 FLHCS . I ride between 1200 and 4500 rpm . Mostly Hwy n no "sliding". Stock compensator or an upgrade .0003 run out ?
Maybe I missed it but why is the SE cam plate/oil pump better than S&S ect? I kept my stock ones when I got the Fueling 472 cam installed on my 22 fxlrs 117.
The entire package can be broken down into individual parts & purchased separately if needed. The bronze bushing is knurled into position to prevent any moment or catching from flywheels that may end up with too much run out. (Not the case for this engine though as the Flywheel is welded). The pump flow upto 33% more volume over the latest 2020 and up pump both on scavenging and feed sides. The S&S pump is made up of too many components in my opinion & the brass bushings are not made of as high quality. Many reports show the bushing catching on the Flywheel and rotating in the cam plate.
Why do people put chains on these bikes? It doesn’t make sense to me. A belt is better. The bike is already designed for a belt so you don’t have any of the fit problems you’d have converting a chain to a belt. The only major advantages you get with a chain is smaller radius (use smaller cogs) and replacing them (when they break you put a new chain on with a master link. Otherwise belts are stronger, lighter, stretch less, are lower maintenance, quieter, and cause less wear to ancillary parts. So why a chain?
Belts these days are outstanding in strength 💪 however they simply can not match the strength of a chain. I am a big supporter of running the OEM belt over chains however this customer in particular is very hard on the gear & wants to eventually turbo or supercharge his bike. He wants to make sure he has all the angles covered. Think of it like this....the guy spends a tonne of money on adding HP to his bike & keeping the belt stock. He goes out riding for the weekend and breaks a belt. Everyone then says to him, 'you spent all this money adding HP but you skimpped out on a chain, why wouldn't you have just done a chain from the start'?
I think you are the best mechanic when it comes to HD
" this isn't a how to channel " - " this is a what I DO channel " well said !!! I definitely enjoy your videos ( coming from a street guy - nyc )
Appreciate the feedback!
Holy Frick, I love the sound of that thing.
Bad ass breakout man....awesome bike.
Love your work, I'm spewing I live so far away. I would definitely come see you
Thanks for watching!
Fantastic video. Been subbed around 2 years and look forward to your videos. Great stuff 👍
Cheers mate! I really appreciate the support on the channel 🙏
This guy gets it done rt the first time, too bad he’s not here in the US. Great build as always
Excellent video Tommy. Thanks for taking the time to share. Cheers
No worries. Hope you enjoyed it & took something away from it.
Great edit. I know a lot of blokes like to get on the tools and have a crack. You do tend to make it look easy but I'd end up taking skin off my knuckles, paint off the bike or cross threading something. Good to see you getting time for the videos and the editing. I've missed a few calls from you guys over the past few weeks in regard to my breakout options and the Lowrider service. We'll get something sorted soon mate.
Cheers mate. Much appreciate the feedback & support.
Yeah no worries mate, get in touch when you can
Looks stunning and Sounds Amazing.
It's great to find someone that gets on with it and explains a few pros and cons instead of just talking unrealistic shit👍
Thanks for watching 👍
Excellent work love watching and learning 👍
Music to my ears!
A true craftsman of a H-D technician .. can see ya take pride in your work... I just sussed how long it would take to ride back from there, if I got new ride and work done 🤘😁
Thanks mate! Really appreciate it 🙌
I definitely enjoy what I do that's for sure.
Where are you located?
@@MasterTechMiller not far... Perth WA 🤣
@Trent_BiKes n Pythons_ 🤣😂🤣😂 Yeah nah, not far at all..
@@MasterTechMiller only take 4 days to get back lol
Done it a few times on the bike 😁
Awesome vid, very interesting all the mechanical & upgraded parts, to make one tough motor, & making a trye shedding beast, fantastic
work Tommy as always cheers 👍👌
Yeah!reds good!
Hope he does the TTS super charger ,'ll take a guess he switched to the new bagger kit drive off the comp Torx bolt head, save a lot of primary m/c
Mate it's awesome, saw what you did the last time,
Love this bike
Love your vids and look forward to them coming out. I just stroked my Dyna 88 to a 107 with a darkhorse crank and just waiting on Dyno this spring. Only thing stock on that bike is the lower case. Lol
Nice work mate! Sounds like it's going to be one hell of a build
Love your Video, love your channel...
Good job, Good luck!! From Poland to U Brother!!
allways some good job done here! love your channel! thanx!
Great video, thanks for posting it. I know you said you trued the crank, but do you happen to know how tolerant of runout the SE plate is? S&S wants .005 or under, and Fueling wants even less I believe. Mine is .004 with .001 at the bearing so I didn't use S&S when I built mine, sticking with the OE 8 lobe pump. However if the SE kit is less sensitive then the aftermarkets, I'd jump on it. Thoughts? Thanks!
Never mind, i see it was asked and answered a few months ago. Thanks.
The SE cam plate kit is good for under 10thou.
@@MasterTechMiller I appreciate it. I want an upgrade from stock on my 124, so it sounds like the SE is a better choice than S&S with my .005 total pinion runout. Thanks!
@@Mike-sh1my No question about it. The SE option is the best on the market.
nice looking pump and plate I use s&s but the blue gold and red are all nice
man tommy them pipes are killing it the customer wont change ?
Thanks for the link to this thread. My mechanic wants to install the S&S Cam shaft kit but I have to wait a year before we check the runout and see if its within spec. I have a 2022 FLHXS. What are you typically seeing in runout? Im very much leaning towards stock OEM, or SE parts.
Thanks . Very informative , as usual
I installed the SE Pro Camplate system into my Fat Boy 114 that was made in 2017 because it had the oldest version of the stock oilpump.
I never did measure the crank run out. But the SE pump system doesnt have any statements of how much run it it needs to be under.
I'm wondering if this is at all a bad idea. I did rotate the crank shaft half a dozen times between bolt tightening sequences to give it as much of a center as possible.
Hand Snugged, rotated it several times, then level1 clutch on my drill tightened, rotated the crank shaft several more times, tightened the pump afterwards the same way, then started tightening things down to 100inch lbs. waited for 15 minutes then 110 all around in pattern sequence like everything before.
There was no feeling of grinding binding or anything to that degree.
Just wondering if it's probably fine for most bikes or if this is possibly a ticking timebomb.
I can't imagine that Harley would market it without some at least asterisk about run out. I have heard of S&S pumps and Feuling pumps creating problems with run out, but I havent yet heard of any with the SE pump. I cant imagine HD would clearance it for a small amount of bikes and would give it more "wiggle room" than the SE and Feuling ones.
The fact that everyone is switching to the SE pump and plate makes me pretty confident it was the right choice to make in the end.
I'll check it again once I get my Woods 22XE cam here to install, any idea on what I should look for if it needs to be removed?
The service wear limit for crankshaft run out is 12thou from memory so I would assume that would be the limit for the SE Cam plate kit. In saying that though, if you found 12thou of run out on your crankshaft you would not be installing the cam plate without some serious consideration of addressing the crankshaft first.
Typically, I see crankshafts with anywhere between 3 & 6 thou of run out from new or even upto 50,000km so I would be very confident your crankshaft would be ok.
It sounds like you have installed the pump & plate correctly so there is nothing to worry about.
@@MasterTechMiller Thank you for taking the time to read and respond!
You've been a lot of help through out your videos answering my questions and I'ved loved hearing your opinions on the bike parts and seeing the bikes you build.
@FranBunnyFFXII no worries at all mate 👍 happy to help where I can.
Glad you've been able to use the channel for its intended use.
New subscriber Tommy. Loving the build videos man.
👌👌
Thanks for watching & supporting the channel mate
What were the reasons you chose the SE kit over fueling and S&S?
@Master Tech Miller
I’m curious to that information about the cam plate as well?
Mate awesome love this breakout sounds so tuff another great video 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Cheers mate!!! Appreciate the feedback & support
Awesome. What type of exhaust pipes are fitted and do they have baffles.
Freedom Radical Radius 2-2
Great job 👏 🤙🤙🤙keep up the great work brother
You tha Man , great job.👍👍👍👍
Just found this and your channel. I subscribed. I watched this video, and a few others, and read instructions when I installed the SE cam plate and pump. When all installed, my cam does not turn freely. I tray to turn it with my fingers and it is not easy to do, but does turn. Is this normal, or should the cam turn freely with must my fingers?
Does it feel like it's binding or is it just a little firm to turn due to liberal amounts of assembly lube?
@@MasterTechMiller after I posted this, I took it all apart again. I cleaned the cam "hole" on the plate with steel wool, and did the same with the end of the cam. Cleaned all that off and without lube put the cam in the cam plate. I held the plate so the cam was facing straight up, and i to it to do a slight spin...about 3/4 turn. Put it all back together and I was wondering, as I fired up my computer if the lube would make it really snug. guess it did.
do you put on adjustable pushrods with your 131 kits with a CR 512? Had 2 lifters go out already and only have 2800 miles on her and they did use adjustable pushrods. i was glad it didn't blow a valve. idk one mechanic said you must use adjustable pushrods ... please advise me. thanks
The CR512 runs the stock base circle of the cam so you do NOT have to use adjustable pushrods with the CR512
I reccomend using them anyway as they are stronger than the OEM ones.
im keen to see the new tts kit. apparently superchargers run cooler than trask turbo kits. off topic, but what fork covers are on the strut tops? does the screaming eagle cam plate have brass bushing like the fueling?
The bushings in the SE cam plate are splined into position preventing them from turning inside the plate.
Hey there…. Do you prime the oil pump by using the starter before the 1st start? Do you need all 4 spark plugs removed or just the 2?
I sure do. Just remove the 2 outboard plugs & leave the fuel line disconnected. You can hold the start button down for as long as you want. The BCM will only allow the engine to crank for a maximum of 10sec before you have to release the button and hit it again
Hey so no assembly lube? Used just oil? Pros cons?
I like your work, where are you located?
Toowoomba QLD Australia
You familiar using the SE Stage 2 Tune? I’ve noticed since I flashed with that tune my cold start RPM’s start at 2500 then drop to 1400 then idle normal around 900. Have you seen this with that tune?
What tuning device is it? Street Tuner Pro?
@@MasterTechMiller yea the SE Pro Street Tuner
@finnsgarage2287 unfortunately there is no adjustment available on the idle speed, or warm up enrichment circuits with that device.
Nothing you can do about it, it's just the way that tune is setup.
If you change to something like the Direct Link key from Technoresearch or a PowerVision you will be able to have full adjustability over the entire tune
@@MasterTechMiller thanks man for the response and understand. I guess the 2500 RPM range is normal with this tune as I seen a couple others indicating the same thing. Once the warranty is up I will look another tune option 🤘
MasterTechMiller how many mm's of slack are you running on that chain final?
Awesome videos. I’m gonna be doing the 131 on my lowrider st… contemplating between the 512 or 540-2 cycle Rama!
If I go 540 would it require heavy duty springs or are the ones that come with the 131 suffice?
Would you recommend the billet SE cam plate and oil pump vs the s&s?
The CR512 is the best 'drop in' cam for the 131ci engine.
The CR540-2 requires a significant increase in compression ratio due to the intake valve closing later than the 512.
The 540-2 will make more peak HP than the 512 with the right exhaust choice.
I have videos on my channel featuring both these cams in 131 engine so check them out if you like?
I highly recommend the SE Hi volume oil pump and cam plate over the S&S option.
Thanks for your input! And thanks for the great content🍻
@@miked5527 thank you for watching & supporting the channel
Another question. With the SE 131 and the 512 cam do I need to dyno w aftermarket tuner or is the SE tuner and map good enough ?
@@miked5527 you will need an aftermarket tuning device for sure. There is no way the SE map will have enough adjustment for the CR512 or CR540-2 Camsahfts.
I highly recommend the Maximus tuner from Technoresearch
Hi Tommy, you select a mix of S&S and SE parts in the camchest, do S&S make better lifters than Screamin' Eagle? What about pushrods, S&S or SE?
The lifters are Screamin' Eagle, the lifter cuffs are the billet alloy S&S option, then using a the SE cam plate & oil pump.
The pushrods in this engine are Screamin' Eagle adjustable and I don't have a preference over S&S or SE in that regard. I mainly use SE components as I work in a dealership and I do believe they have high quality manufacturing processes that produce outstanding components.
To be 100% honest, I am not a huge fan of S&S but they definitely do make some great products like their 'Quickee' adjustable pushrods & billet lifter cuffs.
@@MasterTechMiller Thank you kindly sir. I reckon I'd be broke if I lived in Toowoomba :)
How come ya didn't go with gear drive cam 🍻👍
Chain drive cams are in all honesty very over rated. There is NO benefit whatsoever to using one.
Guys argue that the timing is more accurate, however that statement is voided due to valve train flex & rocker arm ratios.
The OEM chain drive cam on the M8 engine is absolutely fine to use on high performance applications. 👌
@@MasterTechMiller 🍻Tommy👊
What's the acceptable run out on the crank when re using the stock harley cam plate and pump? S&s pumps are crazy tight. Wondering if it's different or?
Under 10thou
Do you recommend doing the crank if your doing a se 131 with cr512?
Not if you plan to use it as a Tourer
Does the 131 crate engine come with the lefty bearing, upgraded oil pump and cam cover?
The 131 comes with a lefty bearing but still runs stock cam plate & 8 lobe oil pump. The 135ci has the SE cam plate & hi volume pump
@@MasterTechMiller much appreciated. Thanks pal.
@@MasterTechMiller any chance of fitting a 135 into a 2023 breakout?
Just wondering. What is the maximum crankshaft runout to run the SE oil pump and cam plate?
12 thou
@@MasterTechMiller hell yeah because when I was looking into S&S and Feuling, there max is 5 thou
Killer !
Putting a Zipper's 128 kit with a 468 cam in my 114 FLHCS . I ride between 1200 and 4500 rpm . Mostly Hwy n no "sliding". Stock compensator or an upgrade .0003 run out ?
I'd upgrade the compensator for sure!
@@MasterTechMiller Thank you
Any thoughts on Zipper’s cam plate?
No mate. The only ones I really like are the Fueling OE+ Cam plate that is used with the OEM Oil pump or this complete kit from Screamin' Eagle
I know ya didn't change cams or anything like that, but would it still be worth a tune? Or nah?
Not such a huge deal no.
The spark plugs show its still running good.
Maybe I missed it but why is the SE cam plate/oil pump better than S&S ect? I kept my stock ones when I got the Fueling 472 cam installed on my 22 fxlrs 117.
The entire package can be broken down into individual parts & purchased separately if needed.
The bronze bushing is knurled into position to prevent any moment or catching from flywheels that may end up with too much run out. (Not the case for this engine though as the Flywheel is welded).
The pump flow upto 33% more volume over the latest 2020 and up pump both on scavenging and feed sides.
The S&S pump is made up of too many components in my opinion & the brass bushings are not made of as high quality. Many reports show the bushing catching on the Flywheel and rotating in the cam plate.
@@MasterTechMiller thanks for the info. Love the content and channel 🤘🏽🤙🏽
@Heng Loose cheers for the awesome feedback & support mate! 🍻
What does the chain conversion cost roughly mate?
Parts are somewhere around $500 depending on where you get them from. Could be a little more or less.
Install costs at a dealer is around $300
@@MasterTechMiller awesome thanks mate, appreciate the quick response. Love the content, keep up the good work 🤟
What is the average runout you're seeing on the 21/22's?
Around 4 thou
Thnx!🤞
Well shit .
Why do people put chains on these bikes? It doesn’t make sense to me. A belt is better. The bike is already designed for a belt so you don’t have any of the fit problems you’d have converting a chain to a belt.
The only major advantages you get with a chain is smaller radius (use smaller cogs) and replacing them (when they break you put a new chain on with a master link.
Otherwise belts are stronger, lighter, stretch less, are lower maintenance, quieter, and cause less wear to ancillary parts.
So why a chain?
Belts these days are outstanding in strength 💪 however they simply can not match the strength of a chain.
I am a big supporter of running the OEM belt over chains however this customer in particular is very hard on the gear & wants to eventually turbo or supercharge his bike. He wants to make sure he has all the angles covered.
Think of it like this....the guy spends a tonne of money on adding HP to his bike & keeping the belt stock. He goes out riding for the weekend and breaks a belt. Everyone then says to him, 'you spent all this money adding HP but you skimpped out on a chain, why wouldn't you have just done a chain from the start'?
Why not run a gear drive cam? With the trued and welded crank and the power it will be making seems like the gear drive would be better