EV Charging | Why Are Fast Chargers So Ridiculously Expensive?!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มิ.ย. 2024
- Public chargers are frequently praised for their prices, with many charging quite outrageous prices. But that shouldn't be the case with fast chargers, which have low speeds and long charging times. Yet frequently that's exactly what I'm seeing. So to find out what's going on, stick around as Dave Takes It On.
Email: davetakesiton@gmail.com
Twitter: / davetakesiton
Patreon: / davetakesiton
Special thanks to all those who have contributed to the channel. Your support means everything.
Patreon Supporters
Above And Beyond: John Buckoke
VIP: Tom Davison | Gary Heavens | Kodzo | Kenn | Andrew Leader | Jason Herrick | Lee Houten | Graham Russell | Wayne Follett | phil rundle | Stuart Joscelyne | Tom Walker | Michael W | Barry rathbone Ledsom | Peter Hartland | Charles Siddons | 2 Thumbs in the Thumbnail | Ray Daly | Simon Smith | Richard Waghorn | Rachael McLoughlin | Stephen Bagwell | Catrin Hubbarde
Supporter: Paul Egan | Kim Edwards | Alan Williams | Nicholas Campbell | David kramrisch | Peter Lawrence | Oliver Roche-Clarke
TH-cam Super Thanks:
geoffpeters8843 | brettkemmerer1310 | leesmart1971 | michaelketley1252 | ballathiam9486 | esa4aus | stephenappleby7897 | cjsa9253 | Joe-lb8qn | rayd332 | StanDMan01 | Mora41 | 68smurfin | 1973Hog
About The Channel:
Dave Takes It On was founded in 2023 and focuses primarily on content about electric vehicles and issues that impact drivers. Dave is based in the North West of the UK and owns a Tesla Model S. He regularly travels around the country, so if you see him feel free to say hello. The channel is supported by his son Jonas, who helps with thumbnails, titles, and technical aspects of the channel.
Videos You May Like:
Home Charging Explained | Is A 3-Pin Plug Enough For You?
• Home Charging Explaine...
Ford Slashes EV Production To Stem Losses | Dire Consequences For UK Vehicle Sector
• Ford Slashes EV Produc...
Volkswagen In TROUBLE As Electric Vehicle Sales Fall To Zero
• Volkswagen In TROUBLE ...
EV Charging | Why I Hesitated About Sharing This Hidden Gem
• EV Charging | Why I He...
Why Sainsbury's Smart Charge May TRANSFORM The EV Charging Landscape
• Why Sainsbury's Smart ...
How Driving Will Be FOREVER Changed
• How Driving Will Be FO...
The EV Charging Price War Is Just Beginning
• The EV Charging Price ...
Charger Compatibility | How The MG4 Handles Tesla Superchargers
• Charger Compatibility ...
Tags:
#electricvehicles #evcharging #davetakesiton
Disclaimer:
This video may feature materials protected by the Fair Use guidelines of Section 107 of the Copyright Act. All rights reserved to the copyright owners. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
i really enjoy Dave's videos but on this one he's got it wrong a bit. I'm a small business owner with a town centre office. If I could have a charger I would but remember us businesses do not have capped tariffs like domestic tariffs. My electricity is currently 29.16p+5% vat per kwh and up to end of last year it was 49p+5% vat. If I charged you for using my charger, i would have to charge 20% VAT as I'm not an energy company. Plenty of my clients are paying through the nose and although they are dropping as we renew, one client was paying 90p last year! Small businesses just do not have the buying power like supermarkets etc so be careful what you call a rip off when talking about small businesses
He's shown himself to be an idiot with this video. No shop *has* to install any EV chargers. Yes, Dave let's make 5p/kWh from an AC charger. That's 35p per hour - if they are being used. But then you have to process the payment. How is that managed? If it's via a payment terminal on the AC charger then it's not a £1,000 installation. If it's by taking payment in the shop then you need to know how much to charge. How do they work that out? Then you have to process the whole payment - let's say £2.10 - to make that 35p profit. But you pay bank transaction charges for the whole £2.10, not the 35p.
I could be wrong but I am guessing Dave has never run a business
And the final bit about councils should provide EV charging as a "free service" as they do with waste removal is so mental I can't process it. By the way, for our business, we pay to have our waste taken by the council
Yes, if you're a business you have lots of overheads, you'd need to upgrade your insurance. You couldn't just install a domestic charger.
15p kwh would easily become 50p kwh to cover costs.
Don’t forget to mention the 20% vat on public charging. Only 5% on home charging.
And that is 5% too much.
A municipality here in Norway have apparently set up chargers like these and is quite transparent with the pricing. They charge spot price + 1.6 NOK/kWh (~12p). The spot price can vary hour by hour, but in winter anywhere from 0.5 to 2.0 NOK/kWh or roughly 5-15p/kWh. So total is less than 30p. In recent days the spot price has actually been negative some hours of the day. Right now between 6pm and 7pm it is actually just 0.3 NOK/kWh or 2.2p/kWh. It was basically free a few hours ago.
I should probably add that here the municipalities own the grid and power company in their area. Either fully or shares if the company operate in multiple.
I believe over 95% of all hydro power stations are publicly owned and probably like 99% of all electricity they produce is from publicly owned stations. Mostly smaller run-of-the-river power stations are privately owned. For the wind farms its a completely different story. Most of them are owned by foreign investors.
Seems like an example to follow. How fast are the chargers?
@@MrFixItDK Pretty sure they are at least 11kW (400V 16A) like most of the Type 2 AC boxes these days. Probably up to 22kW.
I should probably not have used the term chargers when talking about Type 2 AC charging. The charger is actually in the car along with the converter to DC.
@@Gazer75 Most know what you mean. Tethered or untethered?
@@MrFixItDK Not sure what you mean by tethered or untethered.
@@Gazer75 Do you have to use your own type 2 cable og is there a cable connected to the charger?
A little unfair this time Dave,
I am a business owner in Nottinghamshire. All of last year I was tied into a contract that cost me £0.7849 per kWh.
The reason I was tied into this contract was the standard rate at the time of renewal was £1.30 per kWh!
Fortunately it has lowered a little now but is still £0.331 per kWh.
I would have thought that supermarkets, with their vast roof spaces could install lots of solar panels to power their on-site chargers and then charge a small fee to EV drivers.
They could even, somehow, give a discount to customers who purchase a certain amount or more in their store. Maybe a code printed on the till receipt which could be entered into the app, Podpoint in the case of Tesco.
The prices charged for so called 'fast' chargers is ridiculous Dave! I steer clear of them.
85p/kWh in my town. I go rapid to save money 😵💫. Provider referred me to the council who are of course discouraging central area parking and maybe trying to cover the parking fee and have some profit to boot. I'm looking for that Tanning Salon you mentioned
I suppose there's an element of capital recuperation in the charges.
My local authority has expensive charging in paid car parks - a double rip off.
I need power in my garage it's £4130 to just put 8m of cable in - not a fuse board, not a meter, not a charger.
The electricity network is a bigger example of daylight robbery than the public chargers
Who on earth is putting in that cable???. I can see the DNO charging that much but for a domestic install with normal armoured cable that is over 10x the price.
@@mbak7801 it's a new installation to my detached garage. Northern Powergrid - it includes:
Digging 8m trench - 60cm deep 30cm wide
Connecting the cable
Backfilling the trench.
They're the only show in town.
I have just charged at Blackburn near to the hospital for 65p p per kwh which was quick enough rather than others which are 79 to 85 p per kwh
Always a good question! My theory was they may spend longer unoccupied compared to a 7kWh charger
Um they actually cost a load more to buy and install
Love your enthusiasm. Perhaps you should yake it on and create Dave's charging network.
By all means go ahead and set up your own national fast charger network charging 30p per kWh. Whatever is stopping you from doing that is the answer to your question about why it’s expensive. It turns out that you need a lot of labour and capital, which also cost money, and we’re paying for those as well as the electricity when we pay for a fast charger.
Setting up and managing such a network would cost many millions and take years. A proper commercial charger installed and powered may be (wild guess) £150K each and up. The question is what is the price sweet spot. Charge 50p and go bust, 25p busy and bust, 30p break even. Only a proper in depth analysis will give the answer. I have no idea what that is but I would not invest in public charging at the moment.
This is completely wrong and misleading. The cost of electricity is correct but you forgot to consider VAT which is charge at 20% and the cost of administrating the financial transaction a (fix fee of 0.25p), cost of ensuring that the machine is checked every few years, and capital cost (which is usually over 5 years). The break-even point is approx 40p per KW.
I don't want to defend the charger companies but we don't really know what they are paying per kWh but regardless of that you also have to factor in capex and opex costs. Depending on location ground rents can be high and the cost of running new cables from a substation across a public highway and possibly land owned by others with all of the wayleave agreements and the like can become quite expensive. For a small business to offer charging there is VAT to consider and then there is the potential cost of upgrading the supply to cope with the extra load.
It's obviously commercially sensitive information but it would be really good to see the actual cost of running a fast charger and how much profit the operators actually make.
As for Councils, a lot are working with third party companies and aren't actually charging a rent to the operator, they provide the space for free as part of their local transportation policy and supporting EV usage. The operator sets the price not the Council, at most the Council may get some money from parking charges as many still require Pay & Display when charging.
I do my Lublin charging exclusi e.y at PodPoints, which tend to offer among the best rates. But the majority is still done at home.
I took your advice and charged at a public Tesla charger in Banbury retail site. Only 41p compared to the nearby Osprey at 79p!
Good to hear enjoy the savings
Normally charge at home but had to charge out and about today. 50kw rapid cost me £10.87 for 15kwh at a Morrisons store.
Government should put a price cap on it.
Hi Dave. Wot a rip off these chargers are. I'm going to Skipton for 4 days and dreading charging there. Osprey and genie point chargers, so it will 79p , guess I will look for something else when we go out for the day sightseeing. It's a big shock when I charge off peak at home for 9.5p and then this 😮. Great content, 👍
Hi Dave pr anyone on this chat, I am having a nightmare reinsuring my Volvo recharge, my current insurer won't even reinsure me next year, and all my quotes are changing more excess than the quote for the insurance. Any advice on EV insurance
In Norfolk loads of pubs have a free 7kw charger! So we aimed for those pubs for dinner.
I rarely charge at rapid chargers and when I have to I find the cheapest one with food/drink available. then I charge just enough to get home where it is very cheap to recharge whilst I sleep!
Correct the same as me don't spend any more money than needed
I look at destination charging as a convenience that I am willing to pay for.
All the council chargers in Weston-super-Mare are 99p
I wouldn’t have a coffee as that is about 5kW of charge. Take a flask.
And sandwiches cut into triangles and with the crusts cut off!
If you have a Kia EV6/9 or Hyundai Ioniq 5/6 you can keep a kettle in the funk. That's what I used to do, none of these travel ones either. 3kw fast boil. 😂
Seems like a good justification to not bother with the installation and maintenance of charging equipment.
Business pay much more than domestic rates. Which are capped. A business is not capped and got charged three times the capped, 60p is about what a shop would pay. NOT 25 PENCE.
That isn't true. I have a business and am in a terrible contract and am paying 69p but if I were to sign up now I would be paying about 25p.
Partly agree Dave, but business is just that. Can you maybe look what the cost of a supercharger is plus installation (as a ballpark figure) maybe like the 2 in that pub carpark. I'm guessing that's a good few thousand quid. I agree the £00.70+ is a rip off, but paying £00.40ish is ok in my opinion, as they obviously charge much quicker. I charge pretty much always at home, but am lucky to have a free year's Mercedes Me Charge and that gives a flat rate of €00.55 at many locations all over Europe. This we only use for longer trips, but I accept the price is to pay for the infrastructure etc. After all, look at the mark-up on many items in normal shops.
type 2 charging here in sweden has same price as FasDC charging rigth now and there are some places att foodstores and there is abslotly no use to put the plug in for 7SEK /KWh 7 sek is like 0.7 Euro Type 2 has no use any more if priced like that.
As I said before, we wouldn't buy petrol from the council so why buy electricity. As more places like supermarkets set up rapid and ultra rapid chargers in their car parks, the need for rip-off council chargers will diminish. I suspect they will all have gone in 10yrs. Waste of money.
I think they tried that in Nottingham with their Robin Hood company and I don't think that ended well.
My local council is the cheapest around here. £1.75 for first kw then 15p per kW after that. Shell, ESB etc are all 65-79p per kW. Tesla which is 30 miles from me is 44p cheapest rate.
I rarely disagree with Dave but where I live I have a Business Park that has 18 chargers charging 30p per kilowatt, they are 22 kilowatt speed. Free parking and iceland, aldi, oets at home etc. I also have another very good shopping centre that charges 28p per kilowatt for their 11 kilowatt chargers. Or then there is another option as well at a shopping centre not far away they have Tesla destination chargers totally free to use.
Agree with you Dave, if everyone doesnt use the expensive chargers, they will soon drop the price!
Good luck with that then as fast chargers are expensive to buy install and operate.
I live near Southend, the shops are virtually empty for 5days a week the main shopping centre will charge you nearly £3 to park for a couple of hours and if you are foolish enough to charge your car as well then PodPoint point will charge you 57p/kwh in the same car park, (2years ago they were free)
I charge at home and drive to our nearest retail park at Lakeside, cost in EV less than £2 and parking is free.
This makes me laugh, people lamenting about the death of free charging.
Like it was not only ever going to be a temporary thing?
@@stuartburns8657 Yeah there's one born every minute isn't there.
Here in Europe we prefer using tesla chargers that now are open to everyone and they charge 45 cent for kwh
Don't commercial premises have to pay/charge you VAT on electricity? They are also paying rent on the parking space. They have to recover the cost of the installation. They have to pay to maintain the charger.
Yes 20% vat
Well done dave for bringing the rip off prices to people's attention, I'm just back from a week in Cornwall and travelled there from London
I solely used Tesla superchargers for charging and the most I paid was 55p per kWh all based on recommendations from your vlogs
Keep up the good work mate
Regards Martin.
Mark up and profit are two different concepts.
I agree boycott the rip-off chargers.
Vend Electric & Project EV charge reasonable prices per KW, they obviously aren't major players but worth a look.
The problem is Dave, many councils are bankrupt, and this is a way of trying to balance the coffers. The same reason why all other services are degrading around us - they know they can't ask people for more money as people plainly haven't got it.
For a shop owner, the first hour is free, then charge 40p after that, after a 4 hours crank it up to 60p. They are running a business, not an EV parking lot.
He has no idea, Small shops pay 50P minimum per kw and there is VAT at 20% Mine is at the moment 60p there is no capping on business electric. My electric is three times my house and I only have lights running and the''re LED
I suspect some of the small outlets with customer charging is not understanding charging. They know nothing about EV charging so turn to Google what's the average for a EV charger. Seeing rapids are 60p+ per kWh and assuming that's what the going rate is. I bet they don't even know what power it is.
I don’t use them for that reason
I get your point but i disagree with "I will just drive another 5 miles to a Supercharger and grab a coffee.." you are spending the savings on coffee anyway and spending more time. These chargers are installed for convenience, time is money. You are getting charge without having to go get a charge, the trip is for your haircut or whatever. If I am only there for an hour, I am only spending maybe 50p extra to charge, but I am getting charge without going out of my way.
Do people boycott their local corner store because the goods they buy there cost more than supermarket? its convenience, if you can go out of the way to save then good, but it has its purpose.
Hello mate
Are a 3,6 kw or 7 kw "fast" in the UK? Where I live 22 kW and lower are destination chargers 🤷♂️
I'm in Australia, and Destination chargers are "Fast Chargers." I think anything above 5kw is called "Fast" Destination includes all AC charging of any KW level.
@@OTPulse Okay, must differ a lot from country to country - most here have 11kw charger at home or maybe 22 kW it the connection to the house allows it. 7kw are only for plug-ins or old electric cars. Fast charging are 50kw or above including Superchargers
A standard 13amo wall socket ev charger normally runs at about 10 amps say 2.2kw to the car. Any thing above is "fast".
@@tryhardfpv5351 Nice, fast charger at every home 💪
Many cars won't exceed 11kW though
It will get better, in the next 10 years or so.
As I understand it - it is illegal to sell electricity for more than you buy it for. This law is in regards to Landlords providing through a metered outlet. This brings the question of VAT and passing on the cost of provision
As I understand it there is an insane cost to installing a fast charger
@@davidlewis4399 of course there is .. hence the "cost of provision"
Come on Dave we live in a commercial society that is all about making money so why so surprised. Now I agree that the profits made are extortionate and you have to do your research (as you would do with a petrol or diesel car). But this is old news.
Dave, that's the best independent report you've done for weeks and you only mentioned Tesla once.
Except he got it very wrong as most small businesses are not yet paying only 25p per kwh. They might do on their next renewal but many are not yet there.
@@matthewbaker6434 He also forgot about VAT but they still should be no more than 40p per kWh for AC charger under 22kW.
@@davec1768 yes i mentioned VAT in my other comment elsewhere. Not only are businesses charged 5% vat on their tariff but when they charge on to customers they have to charge 20% vat. However, I still know businesses in contracts they can't wait to expire which are more than 40p per kwh + vat
Hi Dave, we didn’t come back to the cost of the installation. For £1000 the charger is input - shall the business just absorb that straight from profit (that’s a lot of haircuts). Surely to pay more than cost for the electric is acceptable in order for the owner to recover the outlay? And pay the tax’s on the original 0.28p. They are providing an additional service! Just stating not to use them is a little off without having all the facts.
If Tesco simply doubled the price of all food products it buys to make a decent profit you’d probably complain
So do you immediately put up the price of your services every time you spend a couple of grand decorating your shop?
@@davetakesiton Hi Dave, don’t get in a huff. You must know that it isn’t even in the same ballpark. If Tesco purchased £10,000 chargers themselves, it would all be tax deductible, probably over a 4 year period. Reducing their already massive profits so less Corporation Tax would be payable. Not the same for a small hairdresser - who most likely doesn’t own the shop and carpark. I enjoy your videos very much, but recently, to me, you seem to be painting half a picture. Please do have a great weekend and I look forward to seeing more of your content.
@@davetakesiton That would be a question for someone who owns a shop. Not myself. Now if you have any questions relating to Financial Analysis of Companies Accounts, with 39 years experience, I’m your man. Have a great day and as I say, keep the videos coming, they are enjoyable and informative.
Remember ,the more we pay per kw,the moe the government get on tax ,so why would they encourage people to charge lower rates ,
Dave the world is full of greedy people
Dave, at 5 p per hour profit how long would it take to recoup the £1k cost? Even if it was used 10 hours a day, thats only £180 per year, so it would take 5 years to recover the installation costs! No business person would consider that. OK he may get some more custom for his business, but IF they sell another 10 coffees, they are not going to become millionaires.
Publicly available data suggests that only around 40% of electric vehicles on the road are privately owned, how are you going to convince the corporate owners of the other 80% of EVs to shop around. My guess is most of them only recharge at particular providers!
Because it’s a sellers market , mostly!
Re Councils. They wont spend the substantial amounts needed for public charging unless there is demand by enough electors and/or they can cover the cost with grants.
At the moment all are struggling to pay teachers and care workers.
Mine is installing 18 chargers on the sea front to attract tourists, all paid by grants. They will be commercially run bc the council has no expertise or desire to take on the payment side.
Where’s this price war that you talk about even the 7kw chargers are a rip off. We need the people power
BP pulse 85p😢🤬😡🤬
Why? Are you mad. Its to make money. You have no idea have you? Business rates are way higher than domestic. I am not a high user but electric for my shop is three times my home price.
I disagree with you here Dave. The business incurs a lot of other costs if they sell power for charging, these need to be accounted for. And if we boycott these fast charger then the only effect will be a lack of new ones i.e. less availability. They should be lower cost than rapid chargers and most of them are. IMO the best course of action is to use the lowest cost ones and boycott the more costly options, showing that they will get used if they are best priced.
Still Dave. You must do your homework, calculate in all costs, CAPEX and OPEX! So sad to see you fall in this populist trap.
These are businesses, not charities. Businesses run on markups to make profits to keep themselves going. If you go to a restaurant and buy a pasta dish the price is way more than buying the ingredients yourself. It's not extortion. The definition of extortion is "the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.". Please don't use such inflammatory language. If you don't want to pay the price of using these AC chargers, then don't
Tesla superchargers are still cheaper I think
Assuming that shops get domestic tariffs and don't have to charge you 20% vat. Sorry but you got this one all wrong
Maybe you missed the bit where I said I had spoken to several companies offering business rate electricity and even showed a screenshot of one of them?
You’re wasting your time Dave. It’s like asking the petroleum companies to lower the price of fuel. Why would they if people keep paying.
Gee you're getting bent over once the uptake and propaganda on this topic has reached a certain point.
I remember saying that a couple of years back.
Most people don't have the time to waste spending even more time than they already have to to charge their vehicles so what did you think would happen exactly?
Must be costing a motza to put in all this extra infrastructure so the costs have to be recovered and profits made somehow.
Some of you really are gullible aren't you?
Coffee costs maybe five cents to make. Do you expect them to sell it for that? It’s called overhead. $1000 charging setup. Who pays for that? Who pays for maintenance of it?
I’m not saying businesses don’t overcharge but you can’t expect them to sell a product at cost
Not to mention you'd end up with random EV owners not even using your store parked there for 4+ hours a day, soaking up cheap charging and a valuable parking spot. I'd personally make first hour free for customers (activated in store), then 45p per kw, possibly ramp it up over time. Not sure if chargers can be set up like this yet, though.
I had some coffee which worked out at 1p per bean. Expensive but far from the most expensive out there.
I needed 30 beans per portafilter grind for a double espresso.
I'm not making diluted Americano or filer from supermarket coffee. 😉
Money grabber I agree cheers Dave
great, you'd drive 10 miles extra and then have a 4 quid coffee. Can the average driver afford to do that time wise and moneywise ......EV's really are the future. NOT
No, I agree, my EV is the present
50p is totally reasonable.
WOW. The spot price is around £0.068 per KWh. Retailing at 400% of that is reasonable but that gets 28p. 50p is a horrible price.
@@mbak7801What on earth are you on about?
😂😂😂 Dave Dave Dave. That's not how life works. It's all about profit. If you don't want this expensive electricity, then go elsewhere. You seem to live in a world in which people are doing things for the common good. Hilarious.
The way to avoid all this charging nonsense is to buy an internal combustion engine... preferably a hybrid.
And your oil giant I suppose makes no profit???
Aldi chargers are free
It's a high bar but this is probably the most stupid TH-cam video I have ever watched
You are as bad as the EV haters. You have no Idea, Business have to pay 20% VAt on electric. Not 5% like domestic. Stop speeding lies like they do.
Nope, business do NOT pay VAT, they just collect it for free.
The end customer who can't reclaim it pays, that's us.
....and this is before the Government starts to move the tax burden from ICE to EV vehicles in the coming years, including home and public charging. The EV industry is a busted flush run the UK and most people dont have a drive - I have one but it's a company car. for whatever reason. my employer is happy for me to charge at 85p on rapid chargers, always charging to 100% which means the next owner has a compromised car in a few years. I only chose an EV because of the 2% BIK - apart from that they are pointless. Not sure about some of figures hes quoting but this guy does talk a lot of sense