Oh my god Bradley Whitford... That man never fails to break my heart in a dozen different ways... Ugh. P.S I don't think he didn't hire her because he thought she would leave again. He didn't hire her because he had to keep the trust of the rest of the staff and keep the campaign on track. And it was killing him that he had to say no.
He didn't hire her because he didn't want a spokesperson whose own words could be thrown back at her to discredit Santos. I'm surprised it never came up after she WAS hired.
@@SpydeyDan when Lou hired her there was time and distance from the primaries. but the big thing for Josh was what Will told him in Nashua in "Opposition Research" - "do you want to be on the record trashing us [the Russell campaign] so we can't hire you?"
OF COURSE that's why he didn't hire her. That and because (as Spydey says) he didn't want someone who could be called out on her record of discrediting Santos. The consequences of her political choices coming back to bite her was the whole point of the scene.
...all things which Josh is savvy enough to fix. Josh didn’t hire Donna because of previous mistakes made due to his romantic attraction towards the most supportive woman in his life.
First time I ever cried watching the West Wing was during this scene. I'm pretty sure my heart broke! It is however an amazing scene and just as realistically painful as life can be.
In the scene I appreciate how Josh's voice appears to crack when he says: And if you think I don't miss you every day...? Yet for me the heartbreaking is Donna's reaction. No words just averting her eyes. I'm aware it's fiction but it is just so beautifully crafted and acted. Stay Safe! 👍
Unfortunately, this really is a the reality of political campaigns. It has a lot less to do with the fact that Donna said disparaging things about Santos, most of that flys under the radar during the general election due to party unity, and a lot more with rewarding the people who were there for the long haul. The people that worked through the campaign from the beginning are expecting jobs and opportunity, and frankly most of them have earned it. If you give the job to someone who played for the other team, all the people who worked 80 hours a week for you are going to be pretty upset.
What a great scene. It has all the akwardness and emotion that it should considering that she's come crawling back after she knew she had to leave and he can't forgive her for leaving even though he knew she had to--and them being in love with each other and all. Kiko...he didn't hire her--Lou did.
I can't, couldn't , and probably wouldn't be able to live a life so tightly wrapped. So much personal control is beyond me. I'm glad some people have this kind of self control. I wish it was actually happening in the oval office today.
Nice.....took a written and scripted moment showcasing two great characters and actors from a great and wonderful TV show and turned it into a political jab at the current administration..... and a baseless jab at that.....very smooth there black bird.......
I'll bet he keeps her quotes in that drawer so, when he gets weak and wants to bring Donna onto the team, he can quickly read it and convince himself not to hire her.
It was heartbreaking....but I think that Josh felt like she would just leave him yet again. I really think that the broken heart was his....even if he never just told her how he really felt.
Apparently (at least in this tv show) the Chief of Staff must make decisions that favor the president, even against his/her feelings. Leo made those decisions many times, CJ is seen suffering when she denounced Toby, and now we see Josh, with all the pain in his heart, rejecting Donna because it is a terrible time for her to join the campaign.
@@lizziebkennedy7505 Yeah, okay, but that was Josh's reason (which he argued) for not hiring Donna. I would like to clarify that I do not find the whole thing realistic. What's more, I consider that the entire Santos campaign is very badly written; so many details hard to believe.
One of the best TV examples of doing the right thing even if it breaks your heart to do so. He could not hire her after all that had transpired during the primaries. BUT since it is a TV show after all, he eventually hired her anyway. Ugh.
president Obama hired Hillary after she laughed when her husband said he (Obama) should be serving hillary drinks not running against her. Biden hired Harris after she called him a senile racist relic of the past… then there’s Liz cheney carrying water for democrats when every last one of them spent the last 40 years calling her entire family warmongering traitors… American political campaigns (especially presidential) have been nothing but a broadcast tv show since before tv was even invented
Henry Mena Josh DIDN'T hire her my friend. Matt Santos did and the first Josh knew about it was when he saw her on TV making a statement on abortion as "A Santos Campaign Spokesperson". I suspect he was privately very relieved that it happened because there was no way a normal national campaign manager would stand for someone being hired at a senior level that way without their knowledge. That said I don't really care because this was the best TV show I've seen and they were two of the best written and acted characters in it. I just wish someone like Sorkin would make a spin off about the Santos white house if only so we could see more gripping and intelligent TV like this.
when Santos was a footnote of a candidate, Will told Josh not to get too negative because then he couldn't later work for Russell. I guess that's one thing he didn't teach Donna. (Yeah, but Josh knew it wouldn't really matter and was just still hurting too much)
Paul Cockburn I don't disagree. I just meant that he usually lives up to expectation. He has a brilliant political mind and he cares but he can be every arrogant (e.g. Secret plan to fight inflation Press Conference)
@@yao052 But I don't think this is Classic Arrogant Josh. This just...makes sense. The difference between what he said about Russel and what she said about Santos is that Josh isn't asking to work for Russel.
And if you listen to that incidental music, right before the cut, as Donna walks out... doesn't it sound a little like it's going to swell into this: th-cam.com/video/5iyM6nDt5g8/w-d-xo.html
That 'Josh' character has always been a wimp - always a follower and too scared to go with the correct call. People like 'Josh' always need someone else to chase as they have zero guts to run for office for what they believe. Probably the most spineless character on TV.
MH0709 except, he recognised the potential in Santos. That’s a pretty amazing (Correct) call if you ask me. He also left Hoynes’ campaign due to his belief in Bartlett, gutsy. In other words, you’re full of it.
A wimp? The dude had a chance to run the VP campaign who was the frontrunner and turned it down to have a junior congressmen that no one has heard of run for office.
Totally off base. He does what he does here bc he has to protect the 500 Santos workers from trusting him, and believing in the campaign. Go back and watch Season 4 Episode 12. Bartlett says it best when he tells Josh that some people in life want to be the man, and other people want to be the man that the Man counts on, and the latter is Josh, and Leo.
That's sarcasm right? His story begins and ends with picking the right candidate in spite of it meaning almost certain defeat. Furthermore, he constantly challenges those in power to do what's right, not merely what's possible
![แม่กลองสองใจ - ซีแกรม โตเกียว มิวสิค [ OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GSQfVjcr_f4/mqdefault.jpg)
That Kung Pao line was admittedly very good.
Donna was an excellent foil for josh
Oh my god Bradley Whitford... That man never fails to break my heart in a dozen different ways... Ugh.
P.S I don't think he didn't hire her because he thought she would leave again. He didn't hire her because he had to keep the trust of the rest of the staff and keep the campaign on track.
And it was killing him that he had to say no.
He didn't hire her because he didn't want a spokesperson whose own words could be thrown back at her to discredit Santos. I'm surprised it never came up after she WAS hired.
@@SpydeyDan when Lou hired her there was time and distance from the primaries. but the big thing for Josh was what Will told him in Nashua in "Opposition Research" - "do you want to be on the record trashing us [the Russell campaign] so we can't hire you?"
Exactly true, as cleverly shown by the looks that Donna got from the staff in the hallway as she was walking away.
OF COURSE that's why he didn't hire her. That and because (as Spydey says) he didn't want someone who could be called out on her record of discrediting Santos. The consequences of her political choices coming back to bite her was the whole point of the scene.
...all things which Josh is savvy enough to fix. Josh didn’t hire Donna because of previous mistakes made due to his romantic attraction towards the most supportive woman in his life.
First time I ever cried watching the West Wing was during this scene. I'm pretty sure my heart broke! It is however an amazing scene and just as realistically painful as life can be.
In the scene I appreciate how Josh's voice appears to crack when he says:
And if you think I don't miss you every day...?
Yet for me the heartbreaking is Donna's reaction.
No words just averting her eyes.
I'm aware it's fiction but it is just so beautifully crafted and acted.
Stay Safe!
👍
We should all have someone who love us as much as Josh loves Donna.
Unfortunately, this really is a the reality of political campaigns. It has a lot less to do with the fact that Donna said disparaging things about Santos, most of that flys under the radar during the general election due to party unity, and a lot more with rewarding the people who were there for the long haul. The people that worked through the campaign from the beginning are expecting jobs and opportunity, and frankly most of them have earned it. If you give the job to someone who played for the other team, all the people who worked 80 hours a week for you are going to be pretty upset.
I’m impressed that Josh keeps those quotes within arms reach on hard copies. Most would keep ‘em in a database on their computer.
If Donna hadn't gone to Josh, would they have gotten together?
@@roystonlodge Josh is often shown as being pretty computer illiterate.
And then his underling hires her, and she kicks arse and runs the First Lady’s office. Not quite reality but immensely satisfying.
@@roystonlodgeNot in the early 2000s they didn’t. Nonsense.
I love that he had that file of Donna’s quotes at hand.
What a great scene. It has all the akwardness and emotion that it should considering that she's come crawling back after she knew she had to leave and he can't forgive her for leaving even though he knew she had to--and them being in love with each other and all.
Kiko...he didn't hire her--Lou did.
I can't, couldn't , and probably wouldn't be able to live a life so tightly wrapped. So much personal control is beyond me. I'm glad some people have this kind of self control. I wish it was actually happening in the oval office today.
Nice.....took a written and scripted moment showcasing two great characters and actors from a great and wonderful TV show and turned it into a political jab at the current administration..... and a baseless jab at that.....very smooth there black bird.......
Huh? Dd 45 pass you by?
Ugh so incredibly heartbreaking.
You can tell by the look on his face that he doesn't think he'll ever see her again.
pretty cool how he just happened to have the exact file he needed for an unscheduled meeting, right in his top drawer.
I'll bet he keeps her quotes in that drawer so, when he gets weak and wants to bring Donna onto the team, he can quickly read it and convince himself not to hire her.
Jamie Todd that’s what I’ve always told myself!
It's because it was in the script that way...
Is there something I missed suggesting it's unscheduled?
@@Meloncov Ya did Captain, I suggested it :P
It was heartbreaking....but I think that Josh felt like she would just leave him yet again. I really think that the broken heart was his....even if he never just told her how he really felt.
Apparently (at least in this tv show) the Chief of Staff must make decisions that favor the president, even against his/her feelings. Leo made those decisions many times, CJ is seen suffering when she denounced Toby, and now we see Josh, with all the pain in his heart, rejecting Donna because it is a terrible time for her to join the campaign.
Not to be rude, but I think you mean the Chief of Staff, not Head of State. In the USA, the President is the Head of State.
@@PerthScienceClinic yes sorry, my bad, I will correct it.
Except it wasn’t. Lou hired her immediately and it worked superbly.
@@lizziebkennedy7505 Yeah, okay, but that was Josh's reason (which he argued) for not hiring Donna.
I would like to clarify that I do not find the whole thing realistic. What's more, I consider that the entire Santos campaign is very badly written; so many details hard to believe.
One of the best TV examples of doing the right thing even if it breaks your heart to do so. He could not hire her after all that had transpired during the primaries.
BUT since it is a TV show after all, he eventually hired her anyway. Ugh.
He didn’t. Janene Garofolo did. Problem superbly solved.
president Obama hired Hillary after she laughed when her husband said he (Obama) should be serving hillary drinks not running against her. Biden hired Harris after she called him a senile racist relic of the past… then there’s Liz cheney carrying water for democrats when every last one of them spent the last 40 years calling her entire family warmongering traitors… American political campaigns (especially presidential) have been nothing but a broadcast tv show since before tv was even invented
He didnt, Lou did.
He didn’t. Lou did. She was so good they kept her. But he was initially pissed.
Breaks my heart every time
Wow Josh.
Such the wrong move made by Josh! He luh that woman!!
Henry Mena Josh DIDN'T hire her my friend. Matt Santos did and the first Josh knew about it was when he saw her on TV making a statement on abortion as "A Santos Campaign Spokesperson".
I suspect he was privately very relieved that it happened because there was no way a normal national campaign manager would stand for someone being hired at a senior level that way without their knowledge.
That said I don't really care because this was the best TV show I've seen and they were two of the best written and acted characters in it. I just wish someone like Sorkin would make a spin off about the Santos white house if only so we could see more gripping and intelligent TV like this.
Santos didn't hire her. Lou did, as the campaign's Midwest press coordinator.
Lou did, not Santos. Santos hired Amy.
@@kenhenderson7999 exactly
Lou hired her, Presidential candidates don’t do that.
@@lizziebkennedy7505 On Matt Santos' orders mate. He personally told Lou he wanted Donna. It gets mentioned in the episode near the end.
God Al mighty could he at least kissed her hello on the cheek.
Yeah, but i won!
Classic Arrogant Josh!
Sankento Just the truth. If Russell had won, Josh couldn’t have been hired. If you’re going to diss the other guy, you better win.
when Santos was a footnote of a candidate, Will told Josh not to get too negative because then he couldn't later work for Russell. I guess that's one thing he didn't teach Donna. (Yeah, but Josh knew it wouldn't really matter and was just still hurting too much)
Paul Cockburn I don't disagree. I just meant that he usually lives up to expectation. He has a brilliant political mind and he cares but he can be every arrogant (e.g. Secret plan to fight inflation Press Conference)
@@yao052 But I don't think this is Classic Arrogant Josh. This just...makes sense. The difference between what he said about Russel and what she said about Santos is that Josh isn't asking to work for Russel.
2:21-2:27 She has a natural frown face.
They should have become a couple
Earlier you mean
Kevin Symonds she wasn’t ready. It would have been an unequal relationship.
And if you listen to that incidental music, right before the cut, as Donna walks out... doesn't it sound a little like it's going to swell into this:
th-cam.com/video/5iyM6nDt5g8/w-d-xo.html
Never bought Josh an Donna's romance, I think they have zero chemistry together.
This is not a sorkin dialogue and it shows...
That 'Josh' character has always been a wimp - always a follower and too scared to go with the correct call. People like 'Josh' always need someone else to chase as they have zero guts to run for office for what they believe. Probably the most spineless character on TV.
MH0709 except, he recognised the potential in Santos. That’s a pretty amazing (Correct) call if you ask me. He also left Hoynes’ campaign due to his belief in Bartlett, gutsy. In other words, you’re full of it.
A wimp? The dude had a chance to run the VP campaign who was the frontrunner and turned it down to have a junior congressmen that no one has heard of run for office.
Totally off base. He does what he does here bc he has to protect the 500 Santos workers from trusting him, and believing in the campaign. Go back and watch Season 4 Episode 12. Bartlett says it best when he tells Josh that some people in life want to be the man, and other people want to be the man that the Man counts on, and the latter is Josh, and Leo.
That's sarcasm right? His story begins and ends with picking the right candidate in spite of it meaning almost certain defeat. Furthermore, he constantly challenges those in power to do what's right, not merely what's possible
You're kidding right? Have you actually seen this show?