Set Your Standards And Never Settle Part Three
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Following along with some of the special points on a large shaft replacement project, that make the end results worth stamping your name on. Part Three, we start out moving the shaft, on the ground and then into the lathe, showing how a true shaft should spin before machine work starts. Then we talk about a new threading insert and test one of two inserts. We finish up with the start of lap fitting the prop to the first shaft in this project. ;{)------
![[TH] FS vs BME - VCT Ascension Pacific - Lower Bracket Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wnygqsR2Fig/mqdefault.jpg)
very very good job bravo
"I love u Marcy" lmfao!
hi Keith,
love this set of videos, they show just what care you are taking and have to take to be sure of the success when in use with the power thats goes through the shaft and whatever it is likely to come in contact from time to time.
I have one question though, does the shaft drop down or not when the heat it applied?
I'll be covering more shaft straightening videos in the future. ;{)------
+Keith Fenner been hearing that for years...hahaha... secret's secret's...thanks keith
22:45 Great job! Question: Would it not be preferable that the nut keep a little tight, with regards to it's purpose, that is ?
I'm confused. Are these episodes out of sequence? In part 2 the shaft already had a taper on it, and you were drilling and tapping the holes in the end of it!
Paul Howard different ends. the end with the three holes connects to a gearbox, this end holds the prop.
YOU are "out of sequence". Watch his videos carefully, show some respect to the master.
They call me Shaft...because I've been "SHAFTED"...blahahahahehe 😨
What is a good solution to remove lapping compound?
A rag and mineral spirits works well. ;{)-------
Eric Gibson
I like WD40
Keith, you made me laugh with your"Spring ' Cuts, seemed like a lot coming off each time. Perhaps next time, start doing 'Spring' Cuts much earlier so that a final 'Spring' Cut takes off nothing and the finish may be better. In the UK, if there was only ever going to be one set of nuts fitted to a particular thread, we would 'Dress' the nut to be a nice smooth fit by tapping the flats of the nut with a soft hammer, then rotate the nut some more until it screwed on the whole length. Commercially made nuts sometimes do not have a fully formed thread profile as your screwcut thread would have and therefore there is a conflict in the angular contact. Do you not worry about safety with the lathe running whilst lapping ? I would worry that the prop and shaft surfaces may pick up and grab and cold weld together. You would not be able to let go in time. I could see when you were showing the lapping contact area all the scuff marks in the steel where it it had been forced together with the bronze prop. Please take care, especially working alone in your shop. Great series, glad I do not own a boat with all the drive shafts you have to repair, looks like a common repair needed to boats.
When you witness with great detail something being done right it's very compelling. This is very compelling.
I couldn't agree more. I can't wait for the next part!
Very true John.
I am surprised a 4 is the biggest thread you can cut on your lathe, my Monarch does 11 sizes under that including the 2tpi I just used to cut the needed clutch thread for my 15ton crane. Might I suggest slipping a narrow .010" shim under the side of your tool closest to the post to give your cutting edge some relief, I bet it would help the chatter and finish a lot.
Very neat Keith.............up until you made the cranked ring spanner I used to cringe when the adjustable came out. Back in my 70's tool room apprenticeship the foreman would have gone mad seeing that done lol
"I'm going to have to pull out real fast..." thought I was watching AvE for a second..
Dear lord, that hole in the wall gave me a good laugh.
and 7:32
Who chewed those holes in your wall? Do you have a pet tiger? LOL!
When the marine mechanic is fitting the prop to the shaft, do they give much thought to the temperature variance of the two components? And do you oversee the fitment, to ensure a proper fixture? Mating the two surfaces is fascinating. Thank you.
Great comment, I don't oversee the installation of most of the shafting work I do, I have gone down and personally shown the complete process of blue check, heating propeller and tightening procedures, at a few marinas. I can only give examples and hope they follow my lead. ;{)-------
Keith Fenner Thank you for a prompt reply.
It would be a crying shame to ruin such fine craftsmanship by improper fitment.
Great video Keith, really enjoying the series.
Can i ask, when you are doing the lapping of the prop to the shaft is there any danger of the prop 'locking' on shaft and taking you for a spin?
Yes, I stated in earlier comments, something you always have to be ready for. ;{)------
Again nice work Keith. I see similarities in our work. Do you use two numbers when threading that pitch? I like your attention to detail on the tapered fit. That's why your the best!
Yeah you gotta keep that in mind on half threads, but most the time, in the speed I use I stick with one, because the timing is just right or closer than giving myself the second choice and waiting for it. Thanks for the comment buddy! ;{)------
Cool man. I know once your on an expensive piece of shafting you sometimes want to stick with what you know is guaranteed. I just filmed a video today explaining thread pitch and the threading dial.
cool I'll check it out! ;{)------
Great video series!
I have several questions for you please.
1. What type of boat does that shaft go on?
2. What is the total length of the shaft?
3. What is the tolerance for the shaft length and how do you accurately measure something that long?
Thank you for the work that you put out to make these videos. We are getting an amazing education for free by watching you channel.
50' Viking, 16', and .002" anywhere on dia. and 1/8" LOA. ;{)------
I appreciate your videos Keith and I thank you for being professional.
LOL, Keith I had never noticed your shop had a "glory hole"
It was shown before when he made a shop tour. But that's a rather old video, you should check it out anyway.
Keith, do you feel a bit more pressure to go over and above on jobs where the customer has had a failure due to poor workmanship, even if that failure wasn't your doing?
I know when I was in trades, I always felt more compelled to do an exceptional job for such customers. I felt they'd been wronged and didn't want them to have the same problems ever again.
Not so much as pressure, but sometimes I am compelled to go down to the marina and witness the assembling, because I'm not the one that gets to do that part anymore, to complete the package. ;{)------
Is that prop 3ft in diameter? I'm curious what the boat length, and horse power needed to spin that prop? I used an online calculator, and I'm coming up with about 50-55ft loa, with about 1500hp/ engine/ screw (1.9:1 gear ratio, 28kt top speed).
Thanks for the awesome videos!
55' and around 800 HP ea. my guess ;{)------
Brings back memories of the captain's gig and utility boats aboard several of my USN ships. The lapping and blueing over and over. You are the master!
Wow.Brings out to me the importance of checking the work before commiting oneself to cutting the thread.I don't have the best work habits,and am learning to be my harshest critic by watching your videos.Been trying the wire method on thread depth in an attempt to gain control.Thank's again for sharing your knowledge.Good teachers and the computer might just save this country from ignorance
The lap fit is Key from what I understand , Good job Keith .. I am enjoying the work to make a new shaft ! thumbs up ..
You are working defenatly more perfect then they usually do in yacht machinework under 200 hp,, they never lap prop and axle togeter here, just slam it on, and tighten it., so nice job! :)
Nice video but no snow on the ground. Nice threading, I wonder how the various insert choices (relief angles, nose radius, etc.) effect the chatter? Not worth messing with wires/triangles to measure the thread without pulling the live center?
I guess the lapping compound keeps the prop taper from locking up? The thought of that prop grabbing with the lathe running is a little scary? Keep up the great videos!
after viewing all of the comments I have the feeling that some of your viewers look down on other viewers. I have always felt that if you don't know, ask and secondly there are no dumb questions, only dumb answers.
First comment! you are the best!!! hi from argentina! never stop making videos.
Can you show us how you lube your machines´ lubrication points? I think that would make an interesting video.
Riveted to the screen
Awesome as always
Did anyone else notice the door handles at 32:45? :D
hm, what is so special bout it ?
They're setup like the end of the shafts he's working on. With a taper, and a couple nuts.
Timothy King
hm, didn't noticed the taper, yeah funny )
After all that work straightening , what holds it straight while transporting and threading the needle
Nothing is holding it straight during transportation/handling in the shop. There's no need for that. Shaft will come back to straight condition itself.
Have you ever seen "stress-strain curve"? Google it!
Basics of mechanical engineering.
I am on the Wet and Windy West Coast. No sunshine here today, We have had tree toppling wind and driving rain,
I enjoy your videos
Looks like you could use a porthole in your exterior wall to bring shafting in through.
lapping is the finest fit you can do
the only caution that should be taken it to be sure that the small portion of the shaft cone does not make a ridge on the end of the smaller portion of the female cone.
In always do a final lapping when I regrind valves and seats on an engine as this corrects minor flaws and insure that the valves are gas tight and does not take damage in the first hours of operation of the engine.
nice work
Great job Keith, no quick pull out don't always work tried it.
Great vid as always. Hope you had a great Thanksgiving also.
Hi Keith ,lifting the shaft from one end ,isn't it a bit risky for, you know.....
Love the lips on the wall. Seriously made me laugh.
I am surprised that you are using an experimental insert and holder on such an expensive shaft.
So, would this be considered Laplaproptic surgery???! :D
"Check your nuts both ways"
That's a nice and straight shaft and some really big nuts you got there.
I'm learning more every day. I'll never do anything this big in my life, but technique and knowledge can be applied to other projects. As an aside, I'd have a nut on that shaft before removing the hoist strap. (Maybe I'm just a chicken!)
I square up the cutting tools the same way glad to see someone else do it.
Thanks for taking to time to post videos Keith.
Keith, I can't begin to tell you how much I have learned from you and your videos and every time I watch one I learn something new. For instance I have always had trouble setting up my steady rest, I never thought of setting up close to the chuck, Duuuh. Thanks and keep them coming, Can't wait to watch the next one. Hope you had a great T-Day.
Keith there is a tracer on your lathe right? I ran a lathe with a tracer i would run the threading tool up side down chips fall straight down . Build you a pattern to pull your tool out right up to a square shoulder. You can run the RPM up and get a lot better finish
made taper and didn't showed that fest of chips arghhh)
thanks keith now go spend time with the family ..
Damn you do nice work! Thanks.....
Awesome Video Keith as always. Happy Thanksgiving sir
And for you on a machine-tool is not a pump for emulsion (смазочно- cooling liquid) envisaged? Insalubrious by a burn oil that to breathe.
The room and ease to get to the back of my lathe and play with the attachments, needed to keep the soup in control, is to much. ;{)------
Great video Keith very interesting work.
Nice.....!!! Happy Thanksgiving!!
Hi Keith:
Your job is done to perfection and if followed by proper installation, it should last a good many years of service. I do have a question concerning the propeller, do the manufacturer do dynamic balancing of the units?
Cheers
Jorge
Yes, Propeller shops recondition props and balance, there are about four prop shops still in New England, use to be close to one and complemented, each other's work with service. ;{)------
When you say near the end that you are going to "massage" the taper will you do that with sandpaper?
Hand file and polish paper. ;{)------
Keith Fenner
Thanks for the prompt reply.
...How many 'thou' per inch does the shaft vendor guarantee? And how about TIR on the diameter...?
It varies the diameters are always a plus .001 to .0015 per inch in diameter larger and the older shafting back a few years had more runout more often, now most within national boat standards, but I'll still straighten them to Naval standards. ;{)-------
I am a retired Gas Engineer and never used a lathe. I love watching you work BUT I see you applying oil to the cutting head but not all the time. I can't understand how the oil could be of benefit as the tool cuts below the surface into virgin material? Any explanation. Graham UK.
It does come in and count, even sometimes coating the chip before it rubs on the base material or insert again, It doesn't make a difference. ;{)------
I like a cozy shop, just big enough you don't have to go outside to change your mind!
Keith,
Have always wanted to ask this question.... Do you live in a residential area and if so how can you run a commercial enterprise and not catch a lot of flack.Not trying to get into your "business" just curious. Thanks
I held this combination Business / residential dump up in escrow for five months, meetings with the town in front of a board of representatives, proved my artistic skills and agreed to a few things like, no solvent tank, no auto repairs, Paint booth etc. That's why I don't allow grease and or oil on projects brought in and we have been approved every time our agreement comes term. We moved in on Jan. 3 of 1997 and the relationship with the town and community is the best. ;{)--------
Hi Keith,I love how you do so much in that shop space ,you have it down to a science.Was the keyway in the prop wallowed or worn.If the shaft keyway was worn and the bronze being softer I would expect some wear on that prop keyway.If it was ,could you go to a larger key or a step key?
The key took the wear, the S/S shaft and nibral prop held their shapes, step keys or oversize can be an option. ;{)------
Keith, you are a credit to professionals everywhere
Keith I have a suggestion...why not core drill a hole on your outside wall so you can slip the shafts in from the outside directly into the lathe. Just cover with a trap door or something? I thought you had a gantry outside and that would help with lifting it up. Just a thought.
I had that vision, a long time ago but the sink and soap dispenser is in the way, it can be moved just never got gumption to move and re plumb and pore new base. ;{)------
Fuck'en Keith is a riot.
2035 Insert are intended for stainless steels while the 4325 is for tough operations on non stainless steels.
Yeah, that is what my rep said, but he stopped by and the 2035 showed more wear than the 4325, with just one thread each. ;{)------
"I'm going to have to pull out real fast". I wonder why threading away from the chuck is not more popular. In this case the tool could be mounted in the rear toolpost and insert still up. run in reverse....fast as you like and pull out at your leisure, no stress. I hope I'm right because I have an expensive special tool on order to do reverse internal threading. Many thanks Keith from Cork, Ireland.
Joss, the downside is you have to hit your mark cleanly on the thread dial on every pass. I usually thread with at least twice the RPM used here to get a better finish. The lead screw is clocking along and you have to hit it cleanly with the half-nuts so as not to spoil the thread.
You do run into the same problem if the live center is being used on small diameter work. There isn't much room for error if the threading tool is crowded by the work and the center... If you miss your mark while the cutting tool is right up against the work, a partial or missed engagement will spoil the thread.
If you thread away from the chuck, you wind up with a left hand thread
is that special lapping compound or would it be similar to what you would lap engine valves with?
Clover lapping compound. ;{)------
Hi Keith ,one question
When your lapping is it possible that the propeler grip on the taper and spin with the shaft.i'am always afraid when you do that
thank's from Québec Canada
Yes it is always a possibility it can grab, you just be ready all the time. ;{)-------
Thank's for the fast answer!! now i'am just more afraid !!! lol
More work than I dreamed! Greg
'much more better' Keith much more better.!.........well done mate
keith, you sir are a legend
Do you get to keep the broken shaft.....or must you return it to the client?
The marina took the shaft back but I did get to keep the broken end for show and tell, you don't get to keep one that has gone to the bottom and was brought back to surface to offen. ;{)--------
Now that's a straight shaft!
How coarse is the lapping paste you used please?
I was using 180 grit ;{)-------
Thanks for your reply.
another great vid Keith, thanks for sharing your secrets.
I love the hole in the wall!
would this material be a good choice for axles for a side by side?
There are other less expensive material that would give you the same strengths or more for loads, Aquamet is designed for torsional loads and corrosion resistant. ;{)------
Your channel is awesome as frig
How does a friggin boat prop shaft have me hanging for the next video? Thank you for your frequent uploads, and I'm learning lots. I googled spring cut, makes total sense now.
Hey Keith, when you're loading long shafting like this, would it be easier at all to take the tailstock of your lathe and slide the shaft through the spindle?
The shaft is longer than the wall to spindle and the sink soap dispenser is in the way of putting a hole there for right now, may modify sink if I get many more big ones coming in the shop. ;{)------
Geolathe...
This is awesome!
What’s the longest shaft you’ve had in the shop?
Dig'N this series Keith! A true master at his craft!!!
Nice work Keith. One question - as You briefly turned the holder sideways I got a glimpse of the insert and it appears to be a negative rake holder. If the insert isn't level then it doesn't cut a true 60° angle, right? Seems you would need a neutral rake holder and insert for cutting the proper geometry thread. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
You are right as to exacts, but the amount of difference, falls into acceptable tolerances, I still procured the holder for the inserts I showed in the beginning, for closer class thread cutting. great comment! ;{)------
tridium6111
The hand truck trick was ingenuous well done! Keep em coming ,We enjoy your expertise / talents.
Can't have chatter!
if anything I guess the larger radius would make the thread stronger
Do you really think, that master machinist like Keith, will need that kind of "advice"?
GTFO!
Excuse me if my comment is out of line, because I have respect for Keith....especially after he beat Adam at the 4 jaw chuck contest.....hhehe Sorry Adam... Keith, when you choked up on the steady rest, you only adjusted the top jaw.....Of course you got the job done, but my question is that on a taper, did you not pull the part downward by only adjusting one jaw of the steady rest.... Perhaps I am splitting hairs, and if I am, that might be a valid topic to discuss... Just a thought. You gotter done man!
Thanks for the comment!
When I slid that rest forward, I loosened the top so it would glide, the others are free enough with the top pressure off, I do look at them fast to see when I tighten down the rest that they are not skipping. I set my rest sometimes with a diameter close to chuck and then move 3/4 of the way down the bed to support a shaft at that location. The roller style rest is repeatable when the lower rollers are locked after setting to the diameter for that diameter. ;{)-----
I see....thank you for taking the time....I do appreciate your videos and more especially, your sharing your experience....I hope people realize the value that you extend to us. I have seen you do jobs that I would turned turned down. You have the biggest balls in the industry.
We love ya Keith. Again, thank you. I love the realm you're creating......keep machining alive.
Love your attention to detail. With your attitude toward getting it right I'm surprised you're not swamped with prop refits. Thanks for the videos.
you are a good guy
what is a spring cut?
A following pass that is taken without advancement, removing what was left due to tool pressure. ;{)-----
Everything is a spring (there's no absolute stiffness), so all parts of the lathe will deflect little bit during cut. If you make a pass without feeding into material...tool will still remove some material. Sometimes it takes multiple passes to release this tension. Very basic term/phenomenon in machining.
It is present also on CNC machines (they're more rigid, but still you can make some "spring" pass in most operations).
The first time that I've seen someone threading that the scratch pass was wrong.
Keith is one of the few people that wont edit mistakes in the video, a sign of true honesty. :>)
It surely just goes to show the merit of doing a scratch pass in the first place, even for an outstanding expert machinist like Keith!
I was gonna say the same
Just watched the comments if someone noticed cause i hate to comment the same issue
Keith is very experienced and does a lot of doublecheck so now we all know why
Great serie Keith thanks for posting
That's why you do a scratch pass. The levers on our lathes have enough play that you're never quite sure what gear you're in.
I always like learning your techniques, keep on repairing America!
17:05 Sorry for a silly question but, How do you achieve a perfect thread alignment at every pass ? Is that intrinsically embedded in your lathe gears ? I mean, is it possible that one can screw-up the whole operation by triggering a forward cut at the wrong time and start cutting at the wrong place ? How is the perfect alignment achieved ? Thanks
using a thread dial, lets you engage the half nut system at the right timing. ;{)-------
The only silly question is the one not asked. I wanted to know how that magic was done for ages. In at least a couple of videos, Keith shows exactly how it's achieved, showing the thread dial in operation.
Dammit Keith! You've gone and got your intro music stuck in my head😜
Cool stuff.
What horse power does it take to turn a prop of that size?
I believe the engines are around the 800 HP range, I did see the boat or engine room on this project. ;{)------
Thank you
I can smell the oil. Can't say my lasagne is suffering for it. Chatter. When you get near to the full thread form, an additional trick is to do a pass at a different rpm. Lower or higher, take your pick. Aquamet, maybe lower.... Good stuff Mr. Fenner.