Thinking Outside The 4 Jaw
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- We share the setting up on a 1968 Pontiac front brake drum using more than the 4 jaws on the chuck. Part one, the setting up on the chuck, alignment pilot, making the soft parallels and the hold downs, for the brake drum mounting. ;{)-------
I see years and years of experience shining through!
Keith one of last real masters at work. We soon need to call for a chinese to put a nail into a wall.
Today everything seems to be just pushing a button.
Thx Keith for all the knowledge preserving for us....
Keith thank you for sharing your experience and approach to dealing with messed up parts that have to be made well. You had me with the vid where you showed how to straighten those long prop shafts. If someone had told me they were going to try that to straighten a shaft that way I would have thought there is no way that is going to work. Well I guess seeing is believing. Pure magic that deal.
Thanks for carrying the craftsman banner, a dying breed.
Well Keith, all I can say is I totally look forward to yours and Adam Booths presentations every week. There is a world of talent there and it certainly helps us guys and gals out, when we run into a machine shop problem. Thanks.
Keith thanks for another great series!! You are the quintessential master Craftsman!!!!
Your a great engineer and machinst Keith & true master at what you do and the knowledge share.. Really enjoyed the video.
Now that was AWESOME . Great method Keith .. ENJOYED !
That's that shipyard ingenuity, do what you gotta do to getter done. Much respect
Awesome, as always. I really appreciate the honesty-getting too greedy, and starting over as a result. This is real world stuff. Thanks!
You are so right on with setting the key at the top. Even the manufacturers specify that as the correct way to install and remove, for the reasons you mentioned.
Being a motorcycle mechanic and machinist, this is my favourite Fenner movie so far. Great stuff Keith!
I learn something with every video Keith.
It always amazes me the amount of work required in setup just to do what seems like such a simple job.
+Mark Wallis There is a Dutch saying about that " met passen en meten wordt de meeste tijd versleten ".
Which means that with fitting and measuring you spend/waste the most time.
I know it's usless information to you, but people all over the ( western) world think that way.
People see things being mass produced at high speed, but when you're making a one of a kind thing
speed drops dramatically.
@@markschattefor6997 I know what you mean, I have been brought up to appreciate good quality work when I see it and that's what I always see from Keith. It's just fantastic to know there are people out there that care enough about the work they do, to do the job properly.
@@gutsngorrrr Exactly, reminds me of a grandpa visiting his granddaughter.
He was sitting on the couch when she was making coffee in the kitchen,
gramps asks for a newspaper; she answers we use a tablet today.
When she comes back in the livingroom she asks, and did you get it?
Grandpa answers; yes, the fly on the wall didn't have a chance.
Maybe you will like this channel also, it's about how we got so far with
precision ; th-cam.com/channels/fsznjef2zGJnrCRQBXqo6Q.html
Now I know how and what them brake drums are made of. Thanks Keith
Keith, I cannot tell you how much I would enjoy working in your shop, or something similar. I love the outside-of-the-box thinking you seem to need regularly. I am a general contractor, building (mostly) custom homes, and would love to get out of this line of work and into something like yours. I’m too old a dog to realistically switch, but sure dream of it. Thank you for these videos-all of them. They take me to a happy place.
Keith's manner reminds me of some of the Chief's I had and worked with when I was in the Navy.
By now Buffy has a new retract spring. The old one can be fixed, but only if you are retired and your time is your own. Something about drilling the outside coil of the clock spring behind the split open hole, winding it up with the anchor pin, inserting it into the sleeve, that into the housing, catching the wind up dog then finally winding a little pre-tension on the quill before screwing it down. While you are there, turn the quill lock bolt to the back so up is lock and down is release. Less surprises that way and it won’t pull itself tight.
You get to work on some iconic parts Keith, those "wide eight" drum/hubs are the legendary trademark of the Pontiac "Super Duty" Catalina, I recall the service manual explaining to never remove/install the races "cold", all too many people ignored this only to end up with parts like these needing repair or replacement.
Got my Old School sweatshirt after last video series . love those old Pontiacs , another cool repair !
Very interesting & neat setup Keith ! Lot's of prep work involved to get things Right !
I had a '68 Bonne wagon with the factory Pontiac 428 / 390 hp engine & all the options along with the same 8-lug wheels back in the 80's. I bought it in Auburn, CA for $250 & drove it home. Those were the good ole' days. :)
Keep up the Great work & videos. Always Enjoy watching your Masterful work ! As always, Thanks for sharing with the rest of us.
Hi Keith,
Very nice work, on the subject of alternative cutting lubricants for al. alloys Isopropyl Alcohol (IPA) works a treat when comes to applying it with a brush or allowing it to trickle. Usually is sold as a cleaning agent but it works well when comes to machining/tapping al. alloys (personal experience on AW6082-T6 and AW5083-H111). It evaporates but is advisable to wipe any machine surfaces exposed to it after use, it is flammable but is very cheap!
Take care,
it's truly amazing that you can talk to a camera lens for nearly an hour as if we were sitting on a stool across the room.....truly amazing. A thought for a future video. Just like you devoted two videos on your press, how about a video on your gantry?
Huskyresqr if you go back thru the vids, there is a detailed vid on the gantry.
Matt tradie.....thanks....didn't realize....
How bout a go-pro on Tubalcain's neighbor's mower!
Great video Keith, I never fail to be amazed at how versatile that plasma cam is, compared to old school torching and grinding it is a huge quantum leap!
Another thumbs up on a great video and methodology share.
Cheers from John, Australia.
Absolutely amazing to watch you work!!!
The problem with "new ideas" from "New guys" is that they don't really think things through.. CLEAN THE DAMN SPINDLE BEFORE ASSEMBLY...KEYWAY UP..!"... I shouted to make sure the deaf "Young Guys" will hear me.. You OBVIOUSLY learned from a Master.. Great Video..
Keith, Awesome video thanks for sharing your knowledge and expertise hope you have a great day.!.!.!.
cool set up there ,,, thanks for the video .
The Machinist Fit Award of Excellence goes to Mr Keith Fenner, lol Great video, Thank you.
What can one say about the abuse of a classic Pontiac Catalina!! My brother had one in 1980's factory white but very matte from all that time kept in the sun, it came from SW Texas to Maryland then they had some bearing trouble here.The girl who owned it said she'd like to trade it for something more fuel efficient, he traded his maverick to her and we spent the next weekend doing the bearing job at his workplace a gas station/garage under threat of closure due to Metro expansion! Many happy encounters with girls in the old "white shark"!! seeing the chewed up inside made me wince glad you are showing it some love!!! Great Video
This is something else man . Amazing work all the time .
Your. Analysis sounds. Spot on.
I love you videos, plenty to learn from you and awesome to see the machining work. I'd love to see a shop tour one day! Thank you for the awesome content.
I have three shop tour videos in the mix of my 684 videos. ;{)------
Awesome! I'm not so good at searching through videos on individual pages, but I look forward to finding yours tonight!
I found the videos. Watch the one from NYC CNC. I didn't realize you were in the Cape, but I believe I drove by your shop when I was out visiting family a few months ago, I had no idea who you were then (very big fan now) but I wanted to check the place out, but chickened out!
Even if I bought 10 tee shirts, you are worth everything you charge. Great video.
Very clever, now I want to see how you line up the drum for the inside bearing.
Always learning something from you!!!
I want to say thanks for making this video. I've not used the the slots on a chuck yet or seen them used yet so its been good to see how this goes. :-)
OMG an hour of Fenner .......... gets popcorn
Don't forget beverages!
I noticed some people question Keith on his approach to the job, I for one would never question him on his way of working like he said listen to the old timers.
joe tiller .... Me neither. Keith is way ahead of most of us. Dare I say he is God-like?
Questioning is good. That way he will explain things in even greater detail.
Also it is good to realize that there are lots of people doing jobs like this and they all have their way of thinking. Them pitching in new ideas is invaluable as well, but might look like questioning sometimes.
PyroShim yes and also I think Keith is the type of guy that never stops learning because he hasn't stopped listening. One of the best things you can do in life sometimes is to stop yapping and listen to what people are saying. Contrary to what almost everyone in the USA thinks. There are people smarter then you or me or the next guy. Lol. The sooner someone realizes this the sooner they will learn
Another cool setup! Thanks for sharing!
Great work with the work holding setup. Still thinking outside the box, or the 4 jaw!
Cool idea for a lifting eye, good job!!!
Another interesting video series Keith, never have gotten to work on those wide eight hubs before myself.
The inner bore of those hubs looked as if someone beat on it like it owed them money.
😂
Man, that is one sweet looking mill stop! Looks like some kind of Canadian design. Lol
As always, an interesting and informative video.
Thank you.
Very interesting job.
I never once considered fitting keyed sprockets/chucks/whatever to keyed shafts any way except straight up as you mentioned. Seems like it would be more hassle than it's worth, doing it sight unseen... never mind the issues you mentioned as well!
you are the best....very machining art old scholl
Oh yea, Jigs and fixtures are our self preservation eh. Cleaner than a hospital floor is a must ! I swear for Alumni and Rapid tap. No shop can be without them. Intricate set up my friend. Very nice ! Most likely better tan factory ever was.
(@8:31) - oh, so that’s how you “jump” start the lathe! 🤠
Can't beat a noisy Colchester headstock. Greatest production lathe ever made?
I guess it's true, pile on those thousands of hours of solving problems and you end up a problem solver. Great work and truly outside he 4 jaw.
Now evrybody needs a 4-j chuck with an extra set of slots. Let’s get the next video.
Nice way to pick up on known machined surfaces to center brake drum. :-)
Great project learn something new every day. :o)
those hubs look kinda familiar. I think they used one of those on the back to the future DeLorean
Those chips look murderous!
Great video Keith! I enjoy watching your videos and learning.
And I swear if you had a dollar for every time you turned the lathe on while in neutral you could retire lol.
We use zep 45 where I work for all kinds of lube applications. Stuff is pretty incredible.
Hi Keith! One excellent, and inexpensive, aluminum cutting fluid we use at Precimax is varsol, a.k.a. mineral spirits, a.k.a. paint thinner. It does a remarkable job of keeping a fine finish. I have not used Alumi-Tap, so I can't do a direct comparison, but that might be an interesting test for you. Say, Alumi-Tap, varsol and WD-40 as aluminum cutting fluids? -- Murray
If the thread on the stud is long enough, you could have put a nut on first, then a washer, then the plasma cut pieces then washer and final nut - so that the 'backnut' can be tightened against the clamping nut so the nuts could be tighter than otherwise :)
Yes Sir ! Very , Very Good , But I Suspect It Might Get , Better Yet ..... 3 Thumbs Up
I make a punch by welding a very heavy duty washer on a punch at a tilted angle. the washer allow me to tap the bearing out by using the washer as a lip to transfer force to the bearing from the hammer blow on the punch
Pecker Tracks AKA Apprentice Marks lol. Great Video Keith
Ohhhhh, eight lug Pontiac drum....really expensive IF you can find them.
Thanks for the video.
I just keep imagining Keith's wife outside mowing that lawn. I think he has a pretty big yard. She's been out there a while. @48:46 starts weed wacker
68 How often were these bearings replaced to cause this much damage? Never seen this happen in real life of a hub. Thanks
3:50, that's how marketing is done right! Geter dun!
I thought I knew something about machining.
happens every time I watch these videos... his setups are amazing
Ain't that the truth!!
He has so much skill and knowledge it's intimidating.
@@GeneralChase very open minded/free thinking/thinking outside the 4 jaw
Yeah probably has 4 hours in just the set up.
KEITH nice work.
An interesting mounting !
What ruled out using internal 3-jaw chuck clamping against the brake hoop ? Has your 3-jaw got too much run-out ?
28:50 - a great example of muscle memory, new "jaws" are mistaken for the adjustable jaws on the chuck :)
Hmm ... muscle memory must mean something different to you than me
!!!! Wait Keith, has anyone suggested making those rims from a billet!, It's only a peice of aluminium, machines real easy.
Always learning from your videos.
From a time served machine tool fitter similar age to your goodself.
What rims?
@@ChristopherBell I stand corrected, drums of course.
Hi Keith great work chucking jig very good ridged support.amazing your last two jobs were caused as a
result of people working roughly a little care and pride goes a long way.Part 2 aluminium welding went
extremely well considering limited access and contaminates present. I was thinking of boring out drum
and shrinking in a insert would be satisfactory? Thank you cheers dibbo.
Those are some big ass drums for a car.
Those hubs were certainly a rarely ordered option. Bet I have only ever seen one or two in my 60+ years. 8 bolt!! rim that had a resemblance to a 50's volks wheel assy?
Last thing you want is any of those 4 T nuts to come sliding out and hitting you/jamming the machine. Did you consider strapping the tie rods down - even with cable zip ties as close to the chuck as you could get ?
Never mind just by watching got my answer.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge in these videos, so many of us enjoy them and watch very closely and learn from you. I have a question for you; I have a Central Machinery 12x36 gap bed lathe with the quick change gearbox, I picked it up about a year and half ago from a guy who blew the motor on it and took all the wires off but, I have everything for it except for a new motor, it's been sitting out on my trailer I brought it home on all this time and starting to get surface rust so, definitely need to clean it up and oil everything to stop that but, anyways, I'm wondering if this machine is worth the effort to get it put back together and running again? It seems to have several extra heads for it and verious other tools and such that came with it. I gave the guy $200 for everything trying to help when he was in a bad spot but, ended up having to keep this machine and would love to learn what I can do with one. Thank you for any insight you can give...
Yes, for a piece of machinery to learn on, it is worth tending to, the motor and wiring can be figured out and even modified for the better, a lot of VFD options out on the youtube now. ;{)-------
@@KeithFenner great news, I'm going to get it going and start learning more about the process.. What do you think about me putting a 110v motor on it and not use the 220v setup? I was thinking about taking the 110v 1/2hp off my air compressor or the 1hp off another air compressor and use that motor to power the lathe? Partly due to the fact that I don't have 220v in my little shop but, running the wire for it is still a option that I could do if need be but, it is a delima I'm facing right now, what to do, what to do?? LOL.. Thank you for your quick response and helping me out. Have a great day
I understand how you did it and it's amazing. I'm wondering though why not use the chuck to hold the drum from the inside. Too soft of material? Too heavy of a part? Chance of damaging/bending the part?
It was to be able to reset it up and hold true, without dialing in surfaces. ;{)-------
@@KeithFenner Makes a lot more sense. Setup once, use often. Half the job always seems to be getting the parts level or centered before anything can happen. Thank's for the insight.
Hey Keith just curious what size and who makes your lathe
Have you tried to use methylated spirit when machining aluminium? I use it a lot when sawing and tapping aluminium, and I can't see why it shouldn't work fine for milling. Works really good for the stuff I do.
Question: Is the camera slightly bobbing up and down intentional? I'm relatively new here and I'm just noticing it. Just my dumb opinion but I find it to be exhausting... like being on a boat. Love the vids!
Looks like the camera has optical stabilization. It's much better than the shots being shaky and being unable to actually see what's going on.
@@kstricl Ahh I see. With that in mind, it doesn't seem to bother me anymore.
For the want of a press a hub was lost................. until it was fixed. :=)
4:30 Christ, I've never seen anyone use a hammer on a C spanner like that to tighten or remove a chuck before. Tightening by hand is absolutely sufficient ! Is your slowest speed 52 rpm ? That's ample gearing for tightening chucks. What's the spindle nose taper...L1 ?
About how much do those jaw sets weigh? Just curious. Fascinating video, as usual... and I am not a machinist in any way, shape, or form. :-)
Great video... and I'm only halfway through. Being Dutch, I have to give a thumbs up for those beard ties. I assume this is a safety measure? lol
my standard disclaimer on jobs like these is "did you try to buy some new or rebuilt ones? because when you get my bill you'll wish you had most likely"
If I remember right these cars lug nuts on one side are reversed threads how many do you break before you figure it out
That why people say how come it cost so much ! It always about setting the job up right it takes time before you actually do the machining to the job...
Tubalcain's neighbor at 43:05 ! Spite mowing! LOL
That is some old equipment. Is that a Kerny Trucker knee mill with a right angle head??No digital on the lathe, I'm hoping there is one on the Bridgeport. Tell me ...on the back side of the lathe carriage..is that a tracer attachment??? I would love to have that on my old Cadillac lathe.
I have 684 videos up on youtube to see it all at work. enjoy, cheers. ;{)-------
Sorry...not 684 video curious about your old, museum quality machines, yawn
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@@alberteinstein9045 What a disgrace to a great name.
Dunbarpopcorn
Most of us watch these videos for the thought process not to trash his equipment which I for one would love to own. Sorry you left us your loss!
39:30 Hi Kieth, have you ever used a strobe light to get a better visual of thhe moving chuck and work? Great vids! Thanks!
No haven't used that option. ;{)------
I am surprised that spanner has the leverage to get the mounting nut loose, get a longer handle keith sheeshh lol. Nice vid.
Hope you like fast cars. We need a meeting of the minds.
I see that beautiful chronograph. What kind of watch is that Keith?
It's a cheap Timex expedition with it's third break away band.
@@KeithFenner timex has a great history and there quality is top of the line for a quartz. Give yourself credit. Lol
I'm going to assume this all worked out for ya. I also know, having watched how you work Keith that you would catch this on the way through. You can't assume that the drum face (where the shoes make contact with the drum) is anywhere near concentric to the bearing race. If they've been in service for any amount of time, having run a brake machining business for 12 yrs I can almost guarantee you that they will be running eccentric. In fact, I will go as far as to say I can guarantee it.
It is perfectly acceptable for them to be eccentric to the hub, this is why the shoes ride on pins with springs and are not fixed with a more rigid set up. Often I have had to dick around with the brake lathe to set a drum off center in order to clean up the wear lips while cutting eccentric in order to get the wanted result while staying below the maximum diameter.
Kudo's though :D Good video!
Yeah, left that to the air. ;{)--------
Hey Keith, is that beard a style or maybe a sobriety think? Great channel.
He said in a video quite a while back that some commenters were wanting him to cut it off. But it will never be cut off because it is a symbol of sobriety.
What is a soft parallel ?
What is running that makes the background sound?
wood splitter, chainsaw and rider mower, pulling trailer, got six cord to cut and stack, just outside. ;{)-------