I'm a firefighter (volunteer) in Australia, and in a road crash rescue unit (SES) Volunteers do each job in separate units out in the country. We are in the midst of developing protocols for the EV crashes and fires we know are coming. Rescue techniques have to change, and firefighting techniques also. My Brigade is a bushfire brigade but we also respond to crashes for fire suppression and patient care. We only have bushfire turnout gear, no BA, and only half face respirators suitable form bushfire smoke. We will be treating EV fires as HAZMAT. No approach, exposures only, call the career brigades. People are going to die trapped in EV fires, get ready for it.
At some point you have to stop and ask: "Just what is it that EV's are supposed to be saving us from?" There is one question that never gets asked that would expose the "climate crisis" for the scam that it is, which is "What percentage of the atmosphere is CO2?" The answer, never given in plain language, is that CO2 is currently around 420 parts per million, (www.co2.earth/daily-co2) increased, they tell us, from 280 ppm in 1850. That's a difference of 140 ppm, or in terms more readily understood by the layman, the composition of the atmosphere has changed by 0.014% (14 thousandths of 1%) in the last 170 years. LESS THAN 1 THOUSANDTH OF 1% PER DECADE! How much closer to "zero" do they think it's possible to get? How gullible do you have to be to believe that this rate of change is causing extreme weather events, which have always happened and always will? Their claim is that this tiny amount "traps heat". ALL gasses dissipate heat and even if CO2 is an exception, the suggestion that a total of 0.042% can overwhelm the capacity of the remaining 99.958% to dissipate that heat is abject nonsense. CO2 DOES NOT control the global temperature, there is no "climate crisis". Wind farms, solar panels, heat pumps, EV's.. None of these measures are necessary, nor will they have the slightest effect on the weather. Eye-watering sums of money have already been wasted on this futile exercise. Time to wake up, stop throwing our money at these boondoggles and squandering the world's resources on projects that cannot possibly succeed as there never was a problem to begin with. There is no need to save the planet from a minuscule increase in the gas on which all life depends, but it does need to be rescued from idiot politicians and media mouthpieces that push this garbage.
@@StacheDTraining When it comes to high speed crashes (we have a 110km highway in our patch) again, if we see ANY vapour, we are going to have to back away. Our road crash PPE is cotton overalls, crash gloves, safety glasses and P2masks. Again, if someone is entrapped, and the battery is offgassing there are going to have to be hard choices to make. I hope people are prepared to accept that they may not be rescued if the battery is compromised and they are trapped or entrapped. Onlookers won't understand either.
@@ts757arse Yes you would need a bomb disposal suit to do what I suggested. This idea is from a experience I once had. Driving down a narrow country lane, I came across a woman trying to jack up her car to replace a flat tyre. So I offered to help, and found out she was just jacking up the rear floor. Can you imagine this happening with a EV? BTW she had her kid in a child seat in the back. And can I point out I know men that also know nothing about cars, so it could have been a man doing it. To me trying to make everyone have a EV, is like telling everyone they must have a hand grenade, and they are perfectly safe as long as the don't pull the pin out.
@@StacheDTrainingSomething i am very interested in is the fire results from different fuel/charge states. 100%/full, 50%, and near 0%/empty. There is already literature concerning how different states of charge impact heat release rates. “Thermal runaway and fire behaviors of lithium iron phosphate battery induced by overheating” - Pengjie Liu, et al. Retrieved from Science Direct
Check out a Korean report called "Full-scale fire testing of battery electric vehicles" by Sunwook Kang etc., from 2022. Downloadable from Science Direct.... Very similar study, should give you some idea what to expect....
Many Kia/Hyrudai fires in the past several years were due to anti lock brake modules that leaked brake fluid into the electrical side of the unit, their solution afaik was to install smaller fuses in the module. These fires had nothing to do with gasoline, turbochargers, engines, etc. They were caused by the engineers who designed the ABS modules and they may well have been supplied by an outside vendor.
As a nuclear engineer and former member of SFPE I am encouraged that finally this sort of testing on EVs is being done. I am sorry this was not done before the concept of EVs was "certified" for road use. When the "peaceful uses of the atom" was being considered in the early 1950's a very good collection of physicists, scientists and engineers did a wide range of thinking and testing on what the safety risks to the public would be. The result was a careful roll out of nuclear plants first in test units, prototypes and then commercial use. The consideration of the extreme accidents and safety systems has held up overall over the years with safe use of nuclear energy (please discount the ridiculous design of Russian reactors). The issue is not the probability of accidents (low) but the consequences. In the case of EVs, maybe fires are more frequent than we think, but the consequences of the catastrophic fire under multiple conditions including crashes has not been well considered. With respect to fires, it seems we never learn to anticipate the need for safety systems until deaths occur. That cycle has not yet been broken.
Many of the manufactures have done fire testing on their electric vehicles and batteries. The data will never be public. Thankfully we have independent organizations that are wiling to do these types of tests.
That isn’t the way of capitalism. Throw a product out there and if it doesn’t work or is dangerous, you have to sue to prove harm. But in this case, EVs have proven overwhelmingly safer than ICEVs and the fire danger is primarily media hype. We have seen the worst EV fires are no worse than the worst ICEV fires.
NEW CLEAR ENERGY =STEAMTURBINES. JUST A CHEMICAL THERMO REACTION IN THE BOILING WATER REACTORS BWR..THEYVARE BOILING THE "COOLINGWATER". OMG HIW THE FUCKED US BIG TIME.
Great that there's some science going into these car fires so we can finally find out what is happening and how we can best put them out. I've seen 3 car fires in my life (I'm not a firefighter) and they were all ICE cars. Getting a bit fed up with all the misinformation about EV car fires.
True that, brother. If EV fires were a statistical concern, then insurance companies would have raised homeowner's rates after they bought an EV. But this has never once happened.
I predict When the Hyundai Kona EV fire starts there will be a heap of burnt and melted metal on the ground, you won't see the shape of a car I even think that the panels at the side will be gone if they are placed at the same distance as the regular Kona, 2000 degrees for a EV fire Vs 800 for a petrol car fire. It will be interesting. But it's also worrying to think of multi storey carparks under ground carparks and tunnels if these EV fires can't be put out. No forethought just green washing.
EVs are born out of idea of reducing greenhouse gases emissions. While this does holds some merit, in the big picture they matter not. EVs alone cannot reduce greenhouse gases to an any acceptable level. The governments and corporations aronud that are like parrots that keep repeating "just buy an EV and everything will be just fine" are terrible liars. THE No.1 air pollutant on the globe is the coal. From it's mining to eventual use it expels ~70% of all GHG that is causing the climate change. If the world REALLY wants to tackle the climate change, the world MUST find a way to ween itself from coal use. The governments and corpos? The just want to sell electric cars and that's it. They don't really care about the climate. Greenwashing for the greenbacks. That's all there is to it.
I found a Korean study that did a very similar thing - burnt an ICE, a couple of BEVs, and an FCEV. There was surprisingly little difference between the ICE and BEVs in terms of overall heat energy generated, or the rate heat was released. The batteries only made a small contribution. The FCEV was significantly worse than either. You might be surprised by the results....
The Technical Panel had their first meeting in May of 2023. I suspect there was a bunch of work going into the study prior to that meeting. A TON of planning has gone into this study.
I’m so glad this is being done, and with proper scientific method. If you can find out and share it with us, I’d like to know if the ventilation system is sophisticated enough to “scrub” the noxious particles from the exhausting gasses, fumes, & smoke, as well as what the harmful levels of the bad stuff is for each type, ICE and EV. It would be nice to know if one is more dangerous than the other. Thank you for what you do.
Great video Pat. Very interesting and brought back many memories of the many car fires I rolled up on over the course of my career in the fire service. As you mentioned the "pops and bangs", I was reminded how dangerous these fires really are. Aside from all the chemical dangers, things did often fly off the vehicles as gas shocks exploded or compressed air in the various cylinders let go. I'm glad that this comprehensive testing is getting done. As I'm now in the lithium battery space, I'll look forward to seeing the results as you do the same tests on EV's.
One big difference. An ICE car that burns due to some kind of fluid catching fire, interior materials or electrical short is very different than a battery in thermal runaway!!! Actually there is no comparison other than they look like cars!!
Professor Paul Christiansen from University of Newcastle presented us a seminar on emergency response to EV fires. He is also at the cutting edge of research into to how Li Batteries become unstable and fail. The gasses and vapour from Li batteries will penetrate existing BA units and Structural protective clothing. That same BA and clothing IS sufficient for ICE car fires. It is not sufficient for EV fires. However my brigade does fight ICE fires from a distance as we only have bushfire PPC/E so as not to expose ourselves to the toxic smoke.
Good to see some actual proper testing. Hope you show the comparisons and differences when they do the EV. Let’s see the EV warriors talk their way out of that.
And the temperature of the base panel? Since EV's are known to sometimes burn literarily through the ground. as mentioned in other comment, 90 to 100kwh fully charged battery, are you sure the facility is safe to handle that?
The electricity in the battery at the time of fire isn't all that critical. The actual burning of the Lithium has the same toxicity whether new and charged or old and dead battery. Lithium is the problem.
@@ToolHombre Tests show otherwise. When comes to toxic stuff it will be the same. However having gigantic amount of energy stored in the battery makes it rather energetic. But it is true, that will not increase toxic funes, there is not extra material in it.
I really hope that for several EV tests they put the main propulsion battery in thermal runaway. This is the only way to get a real fair comparison. Any fire starting in an ICE car is roughly the same as any other. A fire caused by a burner under the "engine" of an EV car could be very different from a propulsion battery in thermal runaway fire.
Good. I live 250m-ish downwind of a once popular dump site for stolen cars which would be set alight, thus I know how that smoke makes you ill and we don't need to breathe too much of it either to be so.
Home and commercial buildings have to be built to meet current fire standards or codes. When will we do the same with cars requiring certain things to make them safe?
I would love to see a bushfire test of a bluetti large powerplant. Tesla powerwall , the others .. Or 4 of them put in a pottery oven... Just to see how far the device needs to be installed away from a house structure..... As those tests need to be done .. and a national register for firefighters to know what houses have them, like they have for every house with a pool. My idea is to have a hole dug , like a 3 by 3 meter swimming pool. And place them 2.5 meters below the water ... And a cover over the top.... Be great for keeping the pack cool all year round and a guarantee it will survive a fire .... It's a worthwhile small investment to make sure the money spent ... Will never be lost.. and the water jacket keeping the unit cool will be better than the air cooled fan using the battery... A lithium powerplant designed to be installed below water.... All the cables run to a external box with all the switches lights and inputs and outlets.. I had 4 18650 all go , in my kitchen... Sounded like a car crashed into the building.... It was in my bathroom... That was one cell. .. then I ran into the kitchen, thinking a firebomb explosive was tossed into the house.. then the other went in my face ..... Scary stuff , beyond anything I've ever experienced.... They were all overcharged. And everyone needs to see it in person ... Just hook a charger up that doesn't stop charging at the 3.something volts. They are like bombs @theairstig9164 If StacheD really wanted to get millions of views... Putting footage of a lithium vibrator going up in flames would do it ...
I had grandnieces tail swinging their grandma’s mom’s car on gravel road. All we could see was gravel smoke. And they were teenagers, they flipped the car upside down and was hanging by their seat belts. Well we got them out and down to family reunion home couple blocks down. You could see spiking of electrical stuff and see gasoline slowly dripping from tank filler spot. I thought this is too scary i’m getting away from this car. The men who came out of their houses to see whats going on…decided they need to fix this problem and together they flipped the car over, and wow, it blew up and the mushroom smoke cloud went up about 3 times higher than the house. It was a thin mushroom cloud, but it went up. All were safe because they said they heard the shhhhhhh and and all turned and ran and nobody got hurt. Amazing memory for family reunion. The girls were deeply upset with themselves. They never did those kinds of things again. Of corse I never for credit foe being able to judge the true danger of being so stupid to flip the car with leaking gasoline and sparking wires, which was why I got away from those crazy men!!!(and yes one was my husband)
@@StacheDTraining hence the "further" clarification. I won't be surprised if they try to subsidise the increases with taxpayer money... you know, for the "environment".
My EV insurance in New Jersey was the same as for my ICE car. In time I expect EV insurance to actually be cheaper since EVs are inherently safer to drive. And EV fires, already exceedingly rare, much more rare than ICE fires, will only become even less rare with the wide-spread adoption of the new LFP batteries.
From what I've seen is that EVS are very huge fire hazards, i dunno how we're going to produce enough EV's and not all perish in battery fires. Whatching this all the way through will bring up a lot of good data. Not something you can get with fighting normal vehicle fires, but yes would love to see the EV Fire test.
That is completely wrong. You have been lied to by your preferred media sources. ICEVs are 60x more likely to catch fire than BEVs. “Gas vs EV Fires [2023 Findings] - AutoinsuranceEZ
Excellent work, what these guys did should be the minimum required for any new EV before it hits the market, they all should be tested in this manner against a control like this ICE vehicle, and a rating put on the EV on its combustibility :)
It would appear that watching something burn is only part of the job of firefighting. Another part would be attempting to put out the fire. Was any attempt made to put out the fire on the Hyundai? If not how are we going to compare firefighting effectiveness between EV and ICE vehicles. It would seem important to know how much more difficult it is to put out one versus the other. At least the testing conducting will highlight chemical and intensity hazards.
Battery electric vehicles are so vastly safer yet again the extant vehicle Industry specifically Class 8 semis and super sized farm tractor do *ABSOLUTELY* explosively burn because i agree "so much plastic." This is why World War 2 material is so much in demand. Another surprising killer are tents and camping gear in general...all specifically designed to be this way.
There is a recent article from the IEEE on EV fires titled "Extinguishing the EV battery fire hype" and I would be very interested in your opinion of it. To me it seems to be glossing over the difficulties of dealing with EV fires.
Great stuff, important information that will be useful world wide. If the recommendation is 'let it burn' for EVs then that has massive implications for multi level parking and parking under apartment blocks etc...
Full tank of fuel burns slow compared to a 1/4 full tank of fuel that explodes due to it being vaporized and ability of oxygen in the tank is my experience
Prepare to be disappointed. BEVs only are hot at the cell. The bulk of the fire is otherwise almost identical to an ICEV except with BEVs, you don’t have to worry about burning fuel rapidly spreading the fire.
?? The EV battery is a self sustaining fire with its own oxygen supply that burns much hotter and for longer as fire crews literally cannot extinguish it, the battery shoots horizontal flame out the side. The only way to fight it is to drag the burning EV away from other vehicles so it doesn't burn them too. ICE cars are relatively straight forward to extinguish with a lot less water. Anyway, these tests will be a good indicator. My tip is that the blowtorch of fire getting shot out sideaways from the EV will cut a hole through those side panels and fry the thermal camera behind it. I want to see a Kia EV9 99.8kwh battery incinderate itself and everything around it, the scienctists can set it off and come back the next day.@@williammeek4078
It's the vapours and toxins that are so dangerous and explosive, way more so the ICE fires. And the blowtorch effect and the fact that you can't put them out until they have consumed themselves. We can fight the exposure fires but the point of origin remains.
Or maybe the fossil fuel anti-EV lies will be exposed. That seems to be where we're heading if you look at something you might never heard of before called evidence.
In this situations problems solve cement not fire burning out in cement box only heat cement box and other way sand box electric vehicles battery bullet attack battery blast stone attack battery explode battery box shield layers not compressed plate make companies staff
My opinion is if you happen to be unfortunate enough to live next to or near a goody two shoes dumb EV owner they should pay my house, car and contents insurance premiums!
I don't see why they burn the ICE vehicle. Someone is paying for this!! Shipping and aviation have just concluded separate lithium batteries from everything else!!
SCIENCE!!!! WHAT!!! You don't need science when you have politicians and little kids telling you how you need to live!!! What's this world coming to when we let science get in the way of environmental fanatics telling you EV's are awesome. How could you? I hope you realize I'm kidding. LOL. Thing is it's funny cause it's true.
What we can learn from electric vehicles……..don’t buy into the wokeness or buy them. Just seen a video about a guy boo hooing over having to replace his battery in his Hyundai hybrid. 20,700. He called the news because he felt it was unfair blah blah blah……such low intelligence and foolishness. What did you expect???
![⭐️( ลอยกระทง 2024 ) Ver. แดนซ์ Remix BY [ ดีเจกิต รีมิกซ์ ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rMWOLhgXUHc/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm a firefighter (volunteer) in Australia, and in a road crash rescue unit (SES) Volunteers do each job in separate units out in the country.
We are in the midst of developing protocols for the EV crashes and fires we know are coming. Rescue techniques have to change, and firefighting techniques also.
My Brigade is a bushfire brigade but we also respond to crashes for fire suppression and patient care. We only have bushfire turnout gear, no BA, and only half face respirators suitable form bushfire smoke.
We will be treating EV fires as HAZMAT. No approach, exposures only, call the career brigades. People are going to die trapped in EV fires, get ready for it.
I have the same concern when it comes to high impact crash situations.
At some point you have to stop and ask: "Just what is it that EV's are supposed to be saving us from?" There is one question that never gets asked that would expose the "climate crisis" for the scam that it is, which is "What percentage of the atmosphere is CO2?" The answer, never given in plain language, is that CO2 is currently around 420 parts per million, (www.co2.earth/daily-co2) increased, they tell us, from 280 ppm in 1850. That's a difference of 140 ppm, or in terms more readily understood by the layman, the composition of the atmosphere has changed by 0.014% (14 thousandths of 1%) in the last 170 years. LESS THAN 1 THOUSANDTH OF 1% PER DECADE! How much closer to "zero" do they think it's possible to get? How gullible do you have to be to believe that this rate of change is causing extreme weather events, which have always happened and always will? Their claim is that this tiny amount "traps heat". ALL gasses dissipate heat and even if CO2 is an exception, the suggestion that a total of 0.042% can overwhelm the capacity of the remaining 99.958% to dissipate that heat is abject nonsense. CO2 DOES NOT control the global temperature, there is no "climate crisis". Wind farms, solar panels, heat pumps, EV's.. None of these measures are necessary, nor will they have the slightest effect on the weather. Eye-watering sums of money have already been wasted on this futile exercise. Time to wake up, stop throwing our money at these boondoggles and squandering the world's resources on projects that cannot possibly succeed as there never was a problem to begin with. There is no need to save the planet from a minuscule increase in the gas on which all life depends, but it does need to be rescued from idiot politicians and media mouthpieces that push this garbage.
@@jerrypalmer1786 stop making sense
SA Metro Fire Service are no better equipped to deal with lithium battery fires than the Country Fire Service, it would seem.
@@StacheDTraining When it comes to high speed crashes (we have a 110km highway in our patch) again, if we see ANY vapour, we are going to have to back away. Our road crash PPE is cotton overalls, crash gloves, safety glasses and P2masks. Again, if someone is entrapped, and the battery is offgassing there are going to have to be hard choices to make. I hope people are prepared to accept that they may not be rescued if the battery is compromised and they are trapped or entrapped. Onlookers won't understand either.
Real science seems to have taken a back seat to "feels" in the last few years. Its good to see it alive.
Hope you are going to show the EV fire version also, and do a comparison so we can all see the difference.
Standby. It will likely be in February/March.
@@ts757arse You don't need a match, just try jacking it up, and do what a lot of people do, and that is put the jack in the wrong place.
@@ts757arse Yes you would need a bomb disposal suit to do what I suggested. This idea is from a experience I once had. Driving down a narrow country lane, I came across a woman trying to jack up her car to replace a flat tyre. So I offered to help, and found out she was just jacking up the rear floor. Can you imagine this happening with a EV? BTW she had her kid in a child seat in the back. And can I point out I know men that also know nothing about cars, so it could have been a man doing it. To me trying to make everyone have a EV, is like telling everyone they must have a hand grenade, and they are perfectly safe as long as the don't pull the pin out.
@@StacheDTrainingSomething i am very interested in is the fire results from different fuel/charge states. 100%/full, 50%, and near 0%/empty.
There is already literature concerning how different states of charge impact heat release rates.
“Thermal runaway and fire behaviors of lithium iron phosphate battery induced by overheating” - Pengjie Liu, et al. Retrieved from Science Direct
@@williammeek4078 state of charge absolutely makes a difference. th-cam.com/video/tFjNypibHO8/w-d-xo.html
That is one impressive experiment. I can't wait to see the results.
Check out a Korean report called "Full-scale fire testing of battery electric vehicles" by Sunwook Kang etc., from 2022. Downloadable from Science Direct....
Very similar study, should give you some idea what to expect....
Many Kia/Hyrudai fires in the past several years were due to anti lock brake modules that leaked brake fluid into the electrical side of the unit, their solution afaik was to install smaller fuses in the module. These fires had nothing to do with gasoline, turbochargers, engines, etc. They were caused by the engineers who designed the ABS modules and they may well have been supplied by an outside vendor.
As a nuclear engineer and former member of SFPE I am encouraged that finally this sort of testing on EVs is being done. I am sorry this was not done before the concept of EVs was "certified" for road use. When the "peaceful uses of the atom" was being considered in the early 1950's a very good collection of physicists, scientists and engineers did a wide range of thinking and testing on what the safety risks to the public would be. The result was a careful roll out of nuclear plants first in test units, prototypes and then commercial use. The consideration of the extreme accidents and safety systems has held up overall over the years with safe use of nuclear energy (please discount the ridiculous design of Russian reactors). The issue is not the probability of accidents (low) but the consequences. In the case of EVs, maybe fires are more frequent than we think, but the consequences of the catastrophic fire under multiple conditions including crashes has not been well considered. With respect to fires, it seems we never learn to anticipate the need for safety systems until deaths occur. That cycle has not yet been broken.
Many of the manufactures have done fire testing on their electric vehicles and batteries. The data will never be public. Thankfully we have independent organizations that are wiling to do these types of tests.
Why do all that research when all you have to do is apply the label 'safe and effective'?
That isn’t the way of capitalism. Throw a product out there and if it doesn’t work or is dangerous, you have to sue to prove harm.
But in this case, EVs have proven overwhelmingly safer than ICEVs and the fire danger is primarily media hype.
We have seen the worst EV fires are no worse than the worst ICEV fires.
NEW CLEAR ENERGY =STEAMTURBINES. JUST A CHEMICAL THERMO REACTION IN THE BOILING WATER REACTORS BWR..THEYVARE BOILING THE "COOLINGWATER". OMG HIW THE FUCKED US BIG TIME.
Yes, and look what happened at Fukushima. Nuclear power is a crazy idea.
i can't wait to see your future footage of an EV fire under the same controlled circumstances. Just to compare
Great that there's some science going into these car fires so we can finally find out what is happening and how we can best put them out. I've seen 3 car fires in my life (I'm not a firefighter) and they were all ICE cars. Getting a bit fed up with all the misinformation about EV car fires.
True that, brother. If EV fires were a statistical concern, then insurance companies would have raised homeowner's rates after they bought an EV. But this has never once happened.
What a fantastic objective and analytical test.
Can’t wait to see the comparison with the EV equivalentent.
I predict When the Hyundai Kona EV fire starts there will be a heap of burnt and melted metal on the ground, you won't see the shape of a car I even think that the panels at the side will be gone if they are placed at the same distance as the regular Kona, 2000 degrees for a EV fire Vs 800 for a petrol car fire. It will be interesting. But it's also worrying to think of multi storey carparks under ground carparks and tunnels if these EV fires can't be put out. No forethought just green washing.
EVs are born out of idea of reducing greenhouse gases emissions. While this does holds some merit, in the big picture they matter not. EVs alone cannot reduce greenhouse gases to an any acceptable level. The governments and corporations aronud that are like parrots that keep repeating "just buy an EV and everything will be just fine" are terrible liars. THE No.1 air pollutant on the globe is the coal. From it's mining to eventual use it expels ~70% of all GHG that is causing the climate change. If the world REALLY wants to tackle the climate change, the world MUST find a way to ween itself from coal use. The governments and corpos? The just want to sell electric cars and that's it. They don't really care about the climate. Greenwashing for the greenbacks. That's all there is to it.
I found a Korean study that did a very similar thing - burnt an ICE, a couple of BEVs, and an FCEV. There was surprisingly little difference between the ICE and BEVs in terms of overall heat energy generated, or the rate heat was released. The batteries only made a small contribution. The FCEV was significantly worse than either. You might be surprised by the results....
@@peeemm2032That's hard to believe since battery EV's have taken down entire car parks.
@@silent1967 well, so some people say. Just because someone says it in social media (or even other media) - doesn't actually make it true.....
@@silent1967 study's called "Full-scale fire testing of battery electric vehicles". You should be able to download it - definitely worth a read....
Please add the ev(s) fire videos to a playlist!
Any idea how long the planning and equipment acquisition took for this? Lots o stuff being measured. Warms the heart of this instrumentation guy.
The Technical Panel had their first meeting in May of 2023. I suspect there was a bunch of work going into the study prior to that meeting. A TON of planning has gone into this study.
I’m so glad this is being done, and with proper scientific method. If you can find out and share it with us, I’d like to know if the ventilation system is sophisticated enough to “scrub” the noxious particles from the exhausting gasses, fumes, & smoke, as well as what the harmful levels of the bad stuff is for each type, ICE and EV. It would be nice to know if one is more dangerous than the other. Thank you for what you do.
Great video Pat. Very interesting and brought back many memories of the many car fires I rolled up on over the course of my career in the fire service. As you mentioned the "pops and bangs", I was reminded how dangerous these fires really are. Aside from all the chemical dangers, things did often fly off the vehicles as gas shocks exploded or compressed air in the various cylinders let go. I'm glad that this comprehensive testing is getting done. As I'm now in the lithium battery space, I'll look forward to seeing the results as you do the same tests on EV's.
waiting for the results... good job
Us too!
One big difference. An ICE car that burns due to some kind of fluid catching fire, interior materials or electrical short is very different than a battery in thermal runaway!!! Actually there is no comparison other than they look like cars!!
Professor Paul Christiansen from University of Newcastle presented us a seminar on emergency response to EV fires. He is also at the cutting edge of research into to how Li Batteries become unstable and fail. The gasses and vapour from Li batteries will penetrate existing BA units and Structural protective clothing. That same BA and clothing IS sufficient for ICE car fires. It is not sufficient for EV fires.
However my brigade does fight ICE fires from a distance as we only have bushfire PPC/E so as not to expose ourselves to the toxic smoke.
Good to see some actual proper testing. Hope you show the comparisons and differences when they do the EV. Let’s see the EV warriors talk their way out of that.
Fascinating. A must to keep track of. Thank you for your work.
fascinating - looking forward to the comparison with the EV
Awesome
What material is the curtain?
I would be really surprised if they actually released the video of the EV burning.
I'll personally be there for the testing. I'll be filming my own footage.
I cannot find it, 8 months later. Is there a link? Thanks. @@StacheDTraining
And the temperature of the base panel? Since EV's are known to sometimes burn literarily through the ground.
as mentioned in other comment, 90 to 100kwh fully charged battery, are you sure the facility is safe to handle that?
The electricity in the battery at the time of fire isn't all that critical. The actual burning of the Lithium has the same toxicity whether new and charged or old and dead battery. Lithium is the problem.
@@ToolHombre Tests show otherwise. When comes to toxic stuff it will be the same. However having gigantic amount of energy stored in the battery makes it rather energetic. But it is true, that will not increase toxic funes, there is not extra material in it.
Is the DOT highway safety commission going to see the results after the tests are concluded? Should help drive design modifications
I really hope that for several EV tests they put the main propulsion battery in thermal runaway. This is the only way to get a real fair comparison. Any fire starting in an ICE car is roughly the same as any other. A fire caused by a burner under the "engine" of an EV car could be very different from a propulsion battery in thermal runaway fire.
Almost any EV fire that is allowed to burn will put the battery into thermal runaway.
With all that heat, the cars did not melt like Lahaina, Maui when agriculture baked from the inside out.
You mean the melted glass and alloy wheels which turned to puddles and streams of alloy on the ground. Something different happened there!
How were the alloy wheels?
Shouldn't these sorts of tests be required from the Manufacturer's themselves? Are they?
Makes me wonder if all that smoke was just vented to the atmosphere or whether it was filtered so as to not pollute..
They have a treatment system for the exhaust.
Good. I live 250m-ish downwind of a once popular dump site for stolen cars which would be set alight, thus I know how that smoke makes you ill and we don't need to breathe too much of it either to be so.
The intro triggered a memory of MSM talking heads saying 'the walls are closing in' over and over.
That building would be good for a prank.
Lots of good data. Great video
Home and commercial buildings have to be built to meet current fire standards or codes. When will we do the same with cars requiring certain things to make them safe?
Very impressive science to inform best practice!
I wonder why they didn't do these tests before releasing them worldwide!
I would love to see a bushfire test of a bluetti large powerplant. Tesla powerwall , the others .. Or 4 of them put in a pottery oven... Just to see how far the device needs to be installed away from a house structure..... As those tests need to be done .. and a national register for firefighters to know what houses have them, like they have for every house with a pool.
My idea is to have a hole dug , like a 3 by 3 meter swimming pool. And place them 2.5 meters below the water ... And a cover over the top.... Be great for keeping the pack cool all year round and a guarantee it will survive a fire ....
It's a worthwhile small investment to make sure the money spent ... Will never be lost.. and the water jacket keeping the unit cool will be better than the air cooled fan using the battery... A lithium powerplant designed to be installed below water.... All the cables run to a external box with all the switches lights and inputs and outlets..
I had 4 18650 all go , in my kitchen... Sounded like a car crashed into the building.... It was in my bathroom... That was one cell. .. then I ran into the kitchen, thinking a firebomb explosive was tossed into the house.. then the other went in my face ..... Scary stuff , beyond anything I've ever experienced.... They were all overcharged. And everyone needs to see it in person ... Just hook a charger up that doesn't stop charging at the 3.something volts. They are like bombs
@theairstig9164 If StacheD really wanted to get millions of views... Putting footage of a lithium vibrator going up in flames would do it ...
Can't wait.
We don't see this everyday. Very interesting.
Great science, it's encouraging to see this research effort. Y
Thank you
I had grandnieces tail swinging their grandma’s mom’s car on gravel road. All we could see was gravel smoke. And they were teenagers, they flipped the car upside down and was hanging by their seat belts. Well we got them out and down to family reunion home couple blocks down. You could see spiking of electrical stuff and see gasoline slowly dripping from tank filler spot. I thought this is too scary i’m getting away from this car. The men who came out of their houses to see whats going on…decided they need to fix this problem and together they flipped the car over, and wow, it blew up and the mushroom smoke cloud went up about 3 times higher than the house. It was a thin mushroom cloud, but it went up. All were safe because they said they heard the shhhhhhh and and all turned and ran and nobody got hurt. Amazing memory for family reunion. The girls were deeply upset with themselves. They never did those kinds of things again. Of corse I never for credit foe being able to judge the true danger of being so stupid to flip the car with leaking gasoline and sparking wires, which was why I got away from those crazy men!!!(and yes one was my husband)
The car was a Kia, in 1988
interesting, informative, and cool
Where's Cheech & Chong? ☁️
No melted aluminium pudles unde the car ? Maui "grass"fires burn hotter ..apparently ....
Prediction: insurance premiums for EVs will skyrocket (further) when conclusions are made next year after comparing the EV to baseline.
I'm fairly certain EV premiums are already skyrocketing.
@@StacheDTraining hence the "further" clarification. I won't be surprised if they try to subsidise the increases with taxpayer money... you know, for the "environment".
My EV insurance in New Jersey was the same as for my ICE car. In time I expect EV insurance to actually be cheaper since EVs are inherently safer to drive. And EV fires, already exceedingly rare, much more rare than ICE fires, will only become even less rare with the wide-spread adoption of the new LFP batteries.
@@Tom-dt4ic yes, and my grandma is a virgin.
@@gjvah You comment, like your grandmother, will not age well.
From what I've seen is that EVS are very huge fire hazards, i dunno how we're going to produce enough EV's and not all perish in battery fires.
Whatching this all the way through will bring up a lot of good data. Not something you can get with fighting normal vehicle fires, but yes would love to see the EV Fire test.
Except they're not.
They are much less likely to catch fire, so no.
The issue is that the fire is much harder to put out.
That is completely wrong. You have been lied to by your preferred media sources.
ICEVs are 60x more likely to catch fire than BEVs.
“Gas vs EV Fires [2023 Findings] - AutoinsuranceEZ
@@Tom-dt4ic they're not fire hazards??? i don't believe you...
@@badbasic th-cam.com/video/7vU6yUXTTN4/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for your video.
Keep up the good work.
I suspect EVs are s better incinderaries than ICEs!!
We'll find out!
Excellent work, what these guys did should be the minimum required for any new EV before it hits the market, they all should be tested in this manner against a control like this ICE vehicle, and a rating put on the EV on its combustibility :)
It would appear that watching something burn is only part of the job of firefighting. Another part would be attempting to put out the fire. Was any attempt made to put out the fire on the Hyundai? If not how are we going to compare firefighting effectiveness between EV and ICE vehicles. It would seem important to know how much more difficult it is to put out one versus the other. At least the testing conducting will highlight chemical and intensity hazards.
This is great content.
Quality
Somehow I suspect findings on the EVs will be altered or supressed.
The lithium lobby is strong.
Are you saying if the EV test is comparable to the ICE that you won't accept the results?
Caption: EV fire study.
Actual video: ICE on fire.👎🏻
Battery electric vehicles are so vastly safer yet again the extant vehicle Industry specifically Class 8 semis and super sized farm tractor do *ABSOLUTELY* explosively burn because i agree "so much plastic." This is why World War 2 material is so much in demand. Another surprising killer are tents and camping gear in general...all specifically designed to be this way.
So whats the natural progression for future vehicles? Without oil being sustainable, what are your suggestions?
Oil is abiotic. You drank the green Kool-Aid. 🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳
And here I am homeless in my shitty Ford Focus watching scientists burn brand new cars way better than mine.. 😢
For Science
There is a recent article from the IEEE on EV fires titled "Extinguishing the EV battery fire hype" and I would be very interested in your opinion of it. To me it seems to be glossing over the difficulties of dealing with EV fires.
Maui fires. Puddles of aluminium, completely disentegrated engines but some odd surviving plastics within certain cars.
Great stuff, important information that will be useful world wide. If the recommendation is 'let it burn' for EVs then that has massive implications for multi level parking and parking under apartment blocks etc...
Control Groups as we call them in Biology
1:24 Called a "control".
No need to burn 'em on purpose. Just install fireproof cameras on production ΕVs. You'll get all the data you want faster and cheaper...
Full tank of fuel burns slow compared to a 1/4 full tank of fuel that explodes due to it being vaporized and ability of oxygen in the tank is my experience
Why was this not done before selling them to the masses?
The manufacturers do testing, and the public will never see the results.
Wow, great video. The ICE car will be like burning a candle compared to the EV self sustaining blowtorch.
Prepare to be disappointed. BEVs only are hot at the cell. The bulk of the fire is otherwise almost identical to an ICEV except with BEVs, you don’t have to worry about burning fuel rapidly spreading the fire.
?? The EV battery is a self sustaining fire with its own oxygen supply that burns much hotter and for longer as fire crews literally cannot extinguish it, the battery shoots horizontal flame out the side. The only way to fight it is to drag the burning EV away from other vehicles so it doesn't burn them too. ICE cars are relatively straight forward to extinguish with a lot less water. Anyway, these tests will be a good indicator. My tip is that the blowtorch of fire getting shot out sideaways from the EV will cut a hole through those side panels and fry the thermal camera behind it. I want to see a Kia EV9 99.8kwh battery incinderate itself and everything around it, the scienctists can set it off and come back the next day.@@williammeek4078
It's the vapours and toxins that are so dangerous and explosive, way more so the ICE fires.
And the blowtorch effect and the fact that you can't put them out until they have consumed themselves. We can fight the exposure fires but the point of origin remains.
i was hoping to see how much weight it lost
Scientific rigor ... great to see.
god help us from fire even the emty car burning just disturbing
Wonder why they burned a "good car" and not a wreck? Seems like a real waste.
Was that "hot" Hyundai stolen? 🤣
That would keep the research costs down.
I was in Chicago 🤔
@@StacheDTraining Nuff said.😉
I'm sure EV's will become less popular as the lie is exposed and insurance becomes too expensive.
Or maybe the fossil fuel anti-EV lies will be exposed. That seems to be where we're heading if you look at something you might never heard of before called evidence.
Now that's what I call science, as opposed to the politically and financially motivated dogma which is "the science"
In this situations problems solve cement not fire burning out in cement box only heat cement box and other way sand box electric vehicles battery bullet attack battery blast stone attack battery explode battery box shield layers not compressed plate make companies staff
“ An army of scientists “. 😂 🤪 🤣
you have to test an diesel car to
Google ev hearse fire fermoy cork ireland
Who are the 4 ev zealots who didn't like the truth? Lol
solid state wont burn puncture
It also can't be manufactured at scale.
what they learned is that an EV is like a Bic lighter since they both have a similar resale value and ignition profiles.
I said from day one EV's are going to be banned from public parking lots in buildings due to fires just like propane was banned
I just hope that EV's willl be a think of the past in the very near future. They are just too dangerous.
Gotta go - think I left the gas on.
My opinion is if you happen to be unfortunate enough to live next to or near a goody two shoes dumb EV owner they should pay my house, car and contents insurance premiums!
talked too much, but did not show what were the differences between the two vehicles burning process.
Next time, listen to the talking, and you'll learn that we won't have that data until early next year.
Internal combustion vehicles use "controlled combustion". EVs use "uncontrolled combustion".
They might lose the building in a BEV battery thermal runaway!!
I don't see why they burn the ICE vehicle.
Someone is paying for this!!
Shipping and aviation have just concluded separate lithium batteries from everything else!!
95% of the car buying public is voting NO (with their pocketbooks) on EVs.......
Who is paying for this circus?
UL Fire Safety Research Institute is a nonprofit that is funded by a large endowment.
All of our tax dollars going down a giant black hole.
SCIENCE!!!! WHAT!!! You don't need science when you have politicians and little kids telling you how you need to live!!! What's this world coming to when we let science get in the way of environmental fanatics telling you EV's are awesome. How could you? I hope you realize I'm kidding. LOL. Thing is it's funny cause it's true.
What we can learn from electric vehicles……..don’t buy into the wokeness or buy them. Just seen a video about a guy boo hooing over having to replace his battery in his Hyundai hybrid. 20,700. He called the news because he felt it was unfair blah blah blah……such low intelligence and foolishness. What did you expect???