timely video Cappy 🤙 I'm literally out in Phoenix this week doing some more EV training, and we just touched on the hazard of pulling MSD's (Main Service Disconnects) in class yesterday... im going to bring up the topic of accessing those series cut loops and those 12V disconnects on the Low Voltage side today, as I already did some brief training on the Mach-E out in Salt Lake City around this same time last year, but for some reason just don't recall that manual switch being covered...? i may need to review my notes, or i may have stepped away for coffee. 😊
I'd say the main hazard when removing the HV disconnect would be electric shock, especially if the plastic/polymer body is wet after an accident. Plastics and polymers are non-conductive but their insulation value can be bridged by moisture. No different than pulling a male cord cap from a receptacle outlet while the hands and/or plug is wet but at a much higher voltage. This is why when I train, I always stress the technicians wear their class 0 rubber insulating gloves with protectors. Having any kind of substantial load on the HV DC circuit after the main motors have stopped, such as after an accident, doesn't seem very plausible. However, if the disconnect is removed while significant current is flowing through the HV circuit, then the possibility of an arc flash is very likely. And short circuiting the two polarities due to mechanical failure as the disconnect is pulled out seems very unlikely but can't be ruled out. Not a lot of injury data out there regarding EV's yet but as they become more prevalent, then I fear we'll start seeing the numbers and the causes.
Yet another superb video. Considering the dangers in potential EV crashes, there has to be a world-wide standard to force all manufacturers to use the same safety method for neutralising the batteries, with the means to do so in a standard form and all placed in the same area of a vehicle regardless of manufacturer. I mean there’s a universal think tank that saddle the world of gadgets with a bewildering array of Universal Serial Bus Connectors (USB), sorry for the pun now forcing all mobile device makers to use the latest form: USB ‘C’ (Personally I believe they should have adopted Apple’s Lightning Connector at it’s launch years ago, it’s a far more practical solution). Let’s face it standardisation in the field of mobile gadgets is a good thing but hardly any more than a convenience and aid to profit, standardising EV Safety is a life saver!
@@brianm6965 - Forget any perceived the Applle concept=t was smaller, double sided and had no dust trap, from that angle it was more compact, elegant and efficient. There are too many confusingly different USB Connector shapes, where one could have served all devices.
Lightning was not a practical solution as it is only capable of USB 3.0(5Gbps) transfer rates, USB-C is capable of everything up to USB 3.2(20Gpbs) including USB4/Thunderbolt which allow for even faster rates, currently up to 120Gbps which is 24x faster than lightning could manage. USB-C is also capable of carrying UHD video signals, again lightning is not capable of that, only being capable of
Thank you. At 400 to 800 volts, there is not only the electrocution hazard but also a flash hazard from plasma and vaporized metals, plastic, etc, when a high voltage line is cut.
Man, I feel like electric vehicles have been common enough for close to a decade now that this should have been sorted out several years ago. It feels like a pretty obvious need. Also, the solution here seems _really_ obvious: A giant red button that acts as a high voltage disconnect. This is on basically any industrial piece of equipment (including industrial EVs like forklifts). It's easy; it's obvious; there's no cutting wires or fiddling with tabs. Just smack the big red button and you're done.
Have all of the low-voltage running loads powered only from the DC-DC converter, only always-on loads connected on the low-voltage battery, then interrupting the HV integrity loop at any point would disable most stuff besides door locks, interior and corner lights. If you think EVs are a nightmare from lack of standards now, wait until drive-by-wire ends up requiring distributed batteries to ensure critical systems (ex.: steering and braking) remain operable through power distribution failures. I'd rather have this stuff remain on fully independently operable mechanical and hydraulic linkage, no electronics or batteries required.
Feel like attaching a pull disconnect to the charging flap would work. RIP the flap off , easy to find from the outside, not unnecessarily damaging if you just need a scene to be safe so unlikely to write off the car unnecessarily, accessible from outside, near the high voltage system and space for an information card on disabling the 12 v
Clearly this is a matter of public safety, including first responder safety. Public should also be informed, because the first persons present on a car accident are the occupants of the vehicle, then other people that are not formed or informed of the risks and procedures to follow.
Did I miss something or mishear? Does disconnecting the battery deactivate the airbags. Put differently, does the operation of airbags rely on electrical current from the battery? If so, what happens with airbags during an impact if the power supply fails in advance?
Why can't they just put 4 large, easy to operate isolation switches in the front and rear wheel arches on both sides. That way it wouldn't matter if the car had been hit from the front, rear or either side, or if it's upside down. You wouldn't have to open the hood or trunk, or any doors to access them. Turning any one of them off would disable the entire system, high and low voltage.
Seems to me that it would be even more complicated if you were dealing with these situations while it was heavily raining or the vehicles was stuck in any pool of water with the high voltages that are involved in these wretched vehicles.
Standards should have been set, worldwide, before any electric vehicle was released for sale. Legislators need a swift kick, although all motor manufacturers, with the exception of Tesla, were already experienced in manufacturing to safety standards, but have chosen to ignore all when making their cars electric. Stop sales of all electric cars. Set some standards, that all new sales must comply with, and insist on a recall of all others to be brought up to standard.
That air bags are sadly expolsives, looked nasy, should be a world standard set to make safe, the only thing i can think of, is a kill switch, but they might make vehicles unsafe if they disconnected themselves before accident, but, kill switch direct to drive, they might not manage to over ride, as in over ride if vehicle was rendered useless if kill switch was off, through the ECU would probably be best...
I think seat belts and air bags should be redesigned, its been decades and its time for changes. Race cars dont have air bags and they crash with way more impact and the drivers routinely walk away. I think a multi point seat belt, a good roll cage and seats that hold you in like a bucket and can slide on suspension instead of air bags would allow better shock control for the body and avoid major injuries. I bet they could engineer a steering wheel and dash that have many inches of absorption so to remove the front air bags entirely. A system like I'm thinking would just work every time. Airbags need to have complicated timing and electronics and sometimes they dont even go off. My accident no air bag went off and I had pulled muscles in my neck, whiplash and dislocated thumb.
@@practicalguy973 You'd never get the general public to adopt racing seats and harnesses in passenger vehicles. There are too many different body sizes and shapes to make that work. People also prioritize comfort over safety. Most people will not be willing to fiddle with a five-point harness. I know some people who already complain about the regular seatbelts we have now. And I can't think of any practical padding system for side impact crashes other than airbags (because any permanent padding placed to the side of the driver would block all visibility during normal driving).
@@NoName-ik2du I didn't mean a 5 point harnesses or actual racing seat or for air bags to be removed completely. What I mean is design something like racing seats but for the general public. Maybe still use a single buckle seat belt for convenience but with an extra belt so both shoulders have belts that holds the body in the seat better and more evenly and design the seat to flex more forward or back to reduce the shock. I think it would need to be connected at two points on top of the seat over each shoulder to be really effective. Seats could be comfortable but tubbed slightly to hold the body in better rather than the flat seats in all current vehicles. A more restraining seat belt and tubbed style seat could work for average body sizes. In modern vehicles there are alarms and warnings so people wear them as inconvenient as they are. I dont think that is an issue. Side curtain air bags still make sense to me. It's the front ones that cause a lot of issues and also serous injuries to some people. Making a steering wheel and dash with more impact resistance is totally possible.
unfortunately (being conspicuously "reactionary" in their orientation) the NTSB only shows up AFTER the damage is done, you know, like we see right now in Baltimore with the ginormous Container Ship Dali losing power, striking the unprotected concrete support, and then collapsing the whole of the Francis Scott Key Bridge... oh yeah, the NTSB is all over the scene on that one.
@@brianm6965 ~ Are you saying the problem is a soon come climate crisis, based on a climate change science theory. Theories are speculation and hypothesis, and they are not proven science such as empirical science that is tested, repeated and proven. There is no proof the carbon dioxide is a dangerous greenhouse gas. Carbon dioxide is the gas of life, all life depends on it for its existence.
@@brianm6965 ~ Are you saying the problem is a soon come climate crisis, based on a climate change science theory. Theories are speculation and hypothesis, and they are not proven science such as empirical science that is tested, repeated and proven. There is no proof the carbon dioxide is a dangerous greenhouse gas. Carbon dioxide is the gas of life, all life depends on it for its existence.
Great video. We are always making things more complicated and risky in the name of progress.
timely video Cappy 🤙 I'm literally out in Phoenix this week doing some more EV training, and we just touched on the hazard of pulling MSD's (Main Service Disconnects) in class yesterday...
im going to bring up the topic of accessing those series cut loops and those 12V disconnects on the Low Voltage side today, as I already did some brief training on the Mach-E out in Salt Lake City around this same time last year, but for some reason just don't recall that manual switch being covered...?
i may need to review my notes, or i may have stepped away for coffee. 😊
I'd say the main hazard when removing the HV disconnect would be electric shock, especially if the plastic/polymer body is wet after an accident. Plastics and polymers are non-conductive but their insulation value can be bridged by moisture. No different than pulling a male cord cap from a receptacle outlet while the hands and/or plug is wet but at a much higher voltage. This is why when I train, I always stress the technicians wear their class 0 rubber insulating gloves with protectors. Having any kind of substantial load on the HV DC circuit after the main motors have stopped, such as after an accident, doesn't seem very plausible. However, if the disconnect is removed while significant current is flowing through the HV circuit, then the possibility of an arc flash is very likely. And short circuiting the two polarities due to mechanical failure as the disconnect is pulled out seems very unlikely but can't be ruled out.
Not a lot of injury data out there regarding EV's yet but as they become more prevalent, then I fear we'll start seeing the numbers and the causes.
In simpler times, a first responder only had to remember not to stand behind the horse unless he wanted to have his head kicked off. 🐴👀
Or be pooped on.
Yet another superb video.
Considering the dangers in potential EV crashes, there has to be a world-wide standard to force all manufacturers to use the same safety method for neutralising the batteries, with the means to do so in a standard form and all placed in the same area of a vehicle regardless of manufacturer.
I mean there’s a universal think tank that saddle the world of gadgets with a bewildering array of Universal Serial Bus Connectors (USB), sorry for the pun now forcing all mobile device makers to use the latest form: USB ‘C’ (Personally I believe they should have adopted Apple’s Lightning Connector at it’s launch years ago, it’s a far more practical solution).
Let’s face it standardisation in the field of mobile gadgets is a good thing but hardly any more than a convenience and aid to profit, standardising EV Safety is a life saver!
@@brianm6965 - Forget any perceived the Applle concept=t was smaller, double sided and had no dust trap, from that angle it was more compact, elegant and efficient. There are too many confusingly different USB Connector shapes, where one could have served all devices.
Lightning was not a practical solution as it is only capable of USB 3.0(5Gbps) transfer rates, USB-C is capable of everything up to USB 3.2(20Gpbs) including USB4/Thunderbolt which allow for even faster rates, currently up to 120Gbps which is 24x faster than lightning could manage. USB-C is also capable of carrying UHD video signals, again lightning is not capable of that, only being capable of
Thank you.
At 400 to 800 volts, there is not only the electrocution hazard but also a flash hazard from plasma and vaporized metals, plastic, etc, when a high voltage line is cut.
The arc flash hazard is significant.
Also: There needs to be a universal discharge plug. To reduce risks in the breakers yards too.
Man, I feel like electric vehicles have been common enough for close to a decade now that this should have been sorted out several years ago. It feels like a pretty obvious need.
Also, the solution here seems _really_ obvious: A giant red button that acts as a high voltage disconnect. This is on basically any industrial piece of equipment (including industrial EVs like forklifts). It's easy; it's obvious; there's no cutting wires or fiddling with tabs. Just smack the big red button and you're done.
Have all of the low-voltage running loads powered only from the DC-DC converter, only always-on loads connected on the low-voltage battery, then interrupting the HV integrity loop at any point would disable most stuff besides door locks, interior and corner lights.
If you think EVs are a nightmare from lack of standards now, wait until drive-by-wire ends up requiring distributed batteries to ensure critical systems (ex.: steering and braking) remain operable through power distribution failures. I'd rather have this stuff remain on fully independently operable mechanical and hydraulic linkage, no electronics or batteries required.
THIS IS GREAT CONTENT !!!!
Feel like attaching a pull disconnect to the charging flap would work. RIP the flap off , easy to find from the outside, not unnecessarily damaging if you just need a scene to be safe so unlikely to write off the car unnecessarily, accessible from outside, near the high voltage system and space for an information card on disabling the 12 v
MAN THIS IS GOOD SHIT AND IM NOT EVEN A FIREFIGHTER !!!!!
Clearly this is a matter of public safety, including first responder safety.
Public should also be informed, because the first persons present on a car accident are the occupants of the vehicle, then other people that are not formed or informed of the risks and procedures to follow.
Did I miss something or mishear?
Does disconnecting the battery deactivate the airbags.
Put differently, does the operation of airbags rely on electrical current from the battery?
If so, what happens with airbags during an impact if the power supply fails in advance?
The airbags are triggered by electronic sensors, so it makes sense that it does take electricity to make them work.
@davidorr6627
ouch!
@@jeremyashford2145 I'm sure that the airbags would go off before the power had a chance to be disconnected in a crash. They go off in milliseconds.
Ejector seats?
Where is the safety design standards in these vehicles I thought it was a legal requirement?
Yes they must find a Standard with Airbags that was easy can't Understand why it's so hard with ev Pilot lines
There should be some thing that automatically disconnects when a crash is detected. Like airbags deploying, a device should cut the power some how.
Petrol vehicles have had for years a fuel pump cut off when a rear impact is detected also if the engine stalls.
@@derekcable My f350's have a little thing on the side of the dash saying "fuel cut off". i didnt know what it was. must be that.
@@garner2267 It will probably be explained in the handbook.
Why can't they just put 4 large, easy to operate isolation switches in the front and rear wheel arches on both sides. That way it wouldn't matter if the car had been hit from the front, rear or either side, or if it's upside down. You wouldn't have to open the hood or trunk, or any doors to access them. Turning any one of them off would disable the entire system, high and low voltage.
Seems to me that it would be even more complicated if you were dealing with these situations while it was heavily raining or the vehicles was stuck in any pool of water with the high voltages that are involved in these wretched vehicles.
Standards should have been set, worldwide, before any electric vehicle was released for sale. Legislators need a swift kick, although all motor manufacturers, with the exception of Tesla, were already experienced in manufacturing to safety standards, but have chosen to ignore all when making their cars electric. Stop sales of all electric cars. Set some standards, that all new sales must comply with, and insist on a recall of all others to be brought up to standard.
Seems like the federal government should implement standards.
Ha, it would be nice if the government's had some standards of their own.
Government failure they should of insisted on a safe way to disable these cars.
That air bags are sadly expolsives, looked nasy, should be a world standard set to make safe, the only thing i can think of, is a kill switch, but they might make vehicles unsafe if they disconnected themselves before accident, but, kill switch direct to drive, they might not manage to over ride, as in over ride if vehicle was rendered useless if kill switch was off, through the ECU would probably be best...
Easy solution would be to have it disabled along side the high voltage.
I think seat belts and air bags should be redesigned, its been decades and its time for changes. Race cars dont have air bags and they crash with way more impact and the drivers routinely walk away. I think a multi point seat belt, a good roll cage and seats that hold you in like a bucket and can slide on suspension instead of air bags would allow better shock control for the body and avoid major injuries. I bet they could engineer a steering wheel and dash that have many inches of absorption so to remove the front air bags entirely. A system like I'm thinking would just work every time. Airbags need to have complicated timing and electronics and sometimes they dont even go off. My accident no air bag went off and I had pulled muscles in my neck, whiplash and dislocated thumb.
@@practicalguy973 You'd never get the general public to adopt racing seats and harnesses in passenger vehicles. There are too many different body sizes and shapes to make that work. People also prioritize comfort over safety. Most people will not be willing to fiddle with a five-point harness. I know some people who already complain about the regular seatbelts we have now. And I can't think of any practical padding system for side impact crashes other than airbags (because any permanent padding placed to the side of the driver would block all visibility during normal driving).
@@NoName-ik2du I didn't mean a 5 point harnesses or actual racing seat or for air bags to be removed completely. What I mean is design something like racing seats but for the general public. Maybe still use a single buckle seat belt for convenience but with an extra belt so both shoulders have belts that holds the body in the seat better and more evenly and design the seat to flex more forward or back to reduce the shock. I think it would need to be connected at two points on top of the seat over each shoulder to be really effective. Seats could be comfortable but tubbed slightly to hold the body in better rather than the flat seats in all current vehicles. A more restraining seat belt and tubbed style seat could work for average body sizes. In modern vehicles there are alarms and warnings so people wear them as inconvenient as they are. I dont think that is an issue. Side curtain air bags still make sense to me. It's the front ones that cause a lot of issues and also serous injuries to some people. Making a steering wheel and dash with more impact resistance is totally possible.
DropComment &TapLike 4AIgos
I don't buy EV after 30 years because they don't have standards.
Lets home we will soon see the end of all this EV nonsense.
I agree, but I don’t know what being home has to do with it
your ntsb is not doing their job.
This wouldn't fall under the NTSB. If anything, it would be covered by NHSTA, but the process is not really straightforward.
unfortunately (being conspicuously "reactionary" in their orientation) the NTSB only shows up AFTER the damage is done, you know, like we see right now in Baltimore with the ginormous Container Ship Dali losing power, striking the unprotected concrete support, and then collapsing the whole of the Francis Scott Key Bridge...
oh yeah, the NTSB is all over the scene on that one.
Another good reason to ban EVs.
@@brianm6965 ~ Are you saying the problem is a soon come climate crisis, based on a climate change science theory. Theories are speculation and hypothesis, and they are not proven science such as empirical science that is tested, repeated and proven. There is no proof the carbon dioxide is a dangerous greenhouse gas. Carbon dioxide is the gas of life, all life depends on it for its existence.
@@brianm6965 ~ Are you saying the problem is a soon come climate crisis, based on a climate change science theory. Theories are speculation and hypothesis, and they are not proven science such as empirical science that is tested, repeated and proven. There is no proof the carbon dioxide is a dangerous greenhouse gas. Carbon dioxide is the gas of life, all life depends on it for its existence.