A couple of potentially key aspects that weren't mentioned in this video: A - The viewport was only rated for EDIT: 1300m. That's 1/3 of the depth to the Titanic. That was a flagrant, known danger point. Russian roulette on every dive with a negative safety margin. B - The engineering spec for the carbon fiber thickness was 7". They built it to 5". C - Preface: I used to work at Boeing on the 787 program, both post-cure and pre-cure. The 787 is mostly made of carbon fiber. Pre-cure was basically a low-level clean room. Not an open warehouse where people were at working areas with loafers and polo shirts. Every single large co-cured part underwent ultrasonic inspection and any defects fixed, and checked again for verification. The submersible did not get any testing for voids, inclusions, nor delamination after it was built. Any small one of those SIGNIFICANTLY weakens a co-cured composite structure by a significant amount. For them claiming to be primarily interested in scientific pursuits, they intentionally disregarded science, engineering, and safety standards, then claimed they got in the way of innovation. I'm fine with innovation, but when innovating, you put no lives or only put your life on the line...... not putting several uninformed lives on the line. In my opinion, the passenger's deaths are akin to homicide. Rules were intentionally disregarded, then lives knowingly put in significant danger. Edit: I'm in no way meaning to imply the video missed points intentionally. The stream of information about the disaster comes and goes, and I'm certain there was no ill intent, intentional misinformation, nor deliberate skipping of information.
@@TimInertiaticMany people in the deep sea diving community wrote to him saying it was a bad idea and thats all documented. Also the one whistleblower that worked there years ago.
@@TimInertiatic I know the window rating came up in the 2018 lawsuit involving David Lochridge and the company. He allegded in his lawsuit that he was fired when he raised concerns about the safety of Titan, including the window pressure rating. I read aobut it on CNN, but that will also give you the name to google to find your own sources if you want to cross check
James Cameron was basically right. Cut corners. Ignored warnings. Needless catastrophe waiting to happen…. Right next to the Titanic. Like modern day Shakespeare.
@@JoeLinux2000yeah the CEO said something similar and it didn't work out to great for him. I would suggest safety is the absolute priority because accidents set back innovation because of lack of trust. Look what challenger disaster did to NASA. Loss of investors, loss of public trust. This will slow down deep sea exploration severely, much more so than ensuring your engineering is absolutely perfect and properly testing materials before using your design for tourism purposes.
@@jamesharrison2763why do that when you can Warp Speed an experiment into half the globe for profit? Without any long term risk studies. Oh wait sorry I thought you were talking about the mRNA jab. Boost away!!!! 😏💉💵💉💵💉💵💉💵
@@JoeLinux2000 The catastrophic results due to failing to implement basic safety features found on just about any submersible craft since WW2 is significantly more unproductive than "too much" caution.
Can’t speak for the weapons system aboard USS Colorado, but as a former submariner, there is a very big difference between the Titan being completely controlled by a game controller, and a game controller literally only controlling the periscope. Not to mention that the control surfaces (at least on board a 688i) have several redundancies and other places they can be controlled even if the ships control panel is damaged.
I think his point was simply that something of this level even exists and is used in a professional/serious environment. People are getting hung up on JUST the fact that it's a Logitech controller that can be used for gaming so as to imply that no simplistic input or output devices are used outside of your children's toys in a home.
@@Shift4g the real point about the logitech controller for me was that it's a cheap wireless controller that's known for being unreliable. That's why people are hung up on it.
@@Shift4g Mike was trying to defend Rush's use of a single wireless controller to control everything. But he used a fallacy to defend Rush's choice. It is a fallacy that submarine's use a similar set-up to control the subs operations. Sadly, in his zeal to defend Rush, Mike didn't bother to research this...if he had, he would have soon learned how wrong he was in thinking the military was doing what Rush did.
@@Shift4g it's not about its simplicity but about the points of failure that are very different from what would be desired for mission critical operations in such an environment.
Funny how oceangate's stated goal was for science, yet they ignored every piece of scientific and engineering advice from everyone more qualified than rush
Lets be honest, if all of science was ignored, nobody would have even heard of this company or Rush because he would have died on dive 1. While he made colossally poor decisions and had an unattractive personality, he was not an idiot.
@@Shift4g just because it didn't fail on the first dive doesn't mean it wasn't an incredibly stupid design. A fatal flaw doesn't become any less of a fatal flaw because it doesn't immediately cause a failure.
@@smileyeagle1021 I agree that it was an incredibly stupid design...to keep using after the first dive. Making it to that depth and back more than once is not some trivial thing. There was sound science at play, just not enough to continue. I still stand by the logic that a design that flat out doesn't work won't accidentally work a few times if the former is true. The peer argument wasn't that it was a design that would eventually fail, it was that it was so backwards it couldn't work in actual application.
@@Shift4g He was certainly a better salesman than he was a deepsea submersible developer......oh wait, he didn't have any professional training in deep sea marine engineering, did he? just aerodynamic engineering and aviation, which deals with a diametrically opposite environment!
At the end of the day, it appears this incident was caused by no small amount of hubris and carelessness by OceanGate. Untested construction techniques, ignoring safety regulations and dismissing safety concerns. Simplicity and "risk taking" is something for consumer technology, not when human lives are at risk when visiting one of the most extreme environments on Earth.
No small amount of irony that the unsinkable ship was visited by the unsinkable submersible and both were lost because of known hazards that could have been avoided but for lack of common sense
This thing is made out of "Scissors, paper, and string"! ...so to speak. Ghastly. I also read a quote, from the CEO, - Rush, a direct quote by him....that he admitted that he was told by engineers, to NEVER go below a level of around 11,000 feet, in this thing, EVER.
well thats them out of business does make you wonder how they got to that point. Never even knew they were doing paid visits, and I would say I have a good interest in the subject!!!
When Rush fired and sued his experienced submariner pilot who refused to sign off on its safety and blew the whistle. Rush lied about Boeing, NASA and UofW being in partnership with Oceangate. That was in 2018. Start there with gross, purposeful, deliberate negligence.
I’d say 20/80 on the Incompetence/Willful Negligence. Considering one of Stockton’s key quotes was “you’re only remembered for the rules you break,” he was clearly ignoring what the people who knew better than him told him not to do and did it anyways
@@Jenalgo honey, that money is gone, even if won lawsuits, they won't get a dime, there is no money and if there was, the second the company knew that this was probably a death situation those moneys probably disappeared out of the corp. accounts and will be hard pressed to get lawsuits as they all signed waivers.
@@nunya2954no waiver can excuse a company from wilful negligence. You can certify that you accept inherent risks in a dangerous activity, but not give someone blanket coverage for throwing your life away irresponsibly.
Great video! I gotta add, I was one of the CP-140 pilots, I flew the search over the 96th hour and was leaving the scene as the wreckage was discovered. As an ASW aircraft, acoustics is our bread and butter. We know the difference between biological, background noise, surface vessels, and subsurface sounds. The entire time the “banging” we heard was unlike anything we’ve heard before. It was to a cadence and we located it to a very small area of probability on the sea floor. It seemed to respond when we dropped Mk84 eSUS, or used active to Ping as a mode of communication. This is why we believed they were alive. As more ships arrived on scene, background noise drowned out the banging we heard, but we could still hear it on occasion and easily differentiate noises. The area we triangulated the banging to come from, in part using the echos through a passive sono grid and strategically positioning surface vessels to block certain echos, is where the wreckage was found. At the moment, we don’t know what the banging was, but could have been wreckage tumbling in the strong currents or small implosions from life support equipment as it settled. It’s a tragic ending and all assets on scene really gave it their all. Thanks for making a great video that lays it out nicely.
Could it have been possible that they didn't implode when they lost power but were instead still alive and banging on the hull for a few days? And then them banging on the hull caused it to crack and then implode? I'm just wondering how the banging fits into all this. I can't find a source, but other comments have said the emergency ballast was released, meaning they were on their way back up. So I'm wondering if they realized they were lost, tried to ascend, started banging, and the hull cracked as a result of the banging.
@@Lissbirds it’s very difficult to speculate, but the US Navy underwater hydrophone picking up the implosion sound around the same time the sub went quiet, sounds like it was all within rapid succession. The automated “ping” the sub had every 15 minutes was an isolated, separate system. So for that to go quiet at the same time as the implosion sound, doesn’t sound like there was any actual human banging. I will say, aircrew had that theory as well, of knocking which compromised the hull, but we don’t believe that any longer. We are still very puzzled by the banging though and hope for answers. As for the release of their emergency weights, we still have to wait for the exact sequence of events to be reported, but we did hear the mothership received a short text they were in an ascent briefly.
@@Pilot_405Thank you for your contribution to both your aid in the search, as well as, your information. Intriguing to hear your perspective and thoughts.
My father was a sonar tech in the navy during the Cold War and he used to tell me that the things he’d hear in the ocean would probably freak a lot of people out. Really freaky stuff down there.
Yeah like USS Thresher and USS Scorpion, two nuclear subs near the Titanic that imploded. Ironically, Bob Ballard was hired to explore these wrecks and was allowed to search for the Titanic on his downtime. He found it, and 35 years later it would attract Stockton Rush and his sub would implode too
Not downtime exactly. He went to the navy to get funding for his equipment that he wanted to use on Titanic. But the Navy wanted him to use it to search for the USS Thresher and Scorpion. Ballard agreed but on the condition that he be allowed to search for Titanic if there was time after exploring the lost submarines.
It's commendable you defended the OceanGate project, both its design, and its reason for existence - science. But I'd dispute that, as a scientist who has been professionally involved in studying and mapping the seabed, and I've made digital photogrammetric 3-D imagery. There isn't any science that this submerisible could do that couldn't be done as well, or better, by remote vehicles mapping the Titanic in detail. Which has already been done and which you pointed out. In fact the Titanic has now been mapped in incredible detail. Taking with them a man and his young son, both of whom had no scientific background, or reason to be there (apart from sightseeing) does not suggest any genuine science. Ok perhaps we could justify their presence by saying the company needed paying customers (with a high ticket price) to fund the project. But if doing genuine science, skip the need to make the vessel big enough for fee-paying passengers, and just build a smaller one (to take only genuine scientists), made from titanium as a sphere - as you showed in your excellent breakdown of Alvin. Finally, if this was all about science, why did Stockton Rush do the exact opposite of that? i.e. ignored the science that showed what materials you could and couldn't build with, ignored the necessary certification (which all genuine scientists would adhere to), and ignored what other experienced experts were telling him. It smacks at best of massive overconfidence in his own abilities, at worst of extreme arrogance.
This video was pure apologism, threw me off. I understand his approach and being respectful but you can't just glance over everything that's public knowledge now
He's sticking up for these fools because he wants to stay in good standing with the folks involved in this stuff. He's become a tool, and that's obvious.
@@rareblues78daddy Oh good grief. He's not "become a tool". He's just presenting from his point of view. He seems sympathetic because one of the individuals on board was a personal hero of his. I don't feel that he was being an apologist. There's no need to insult him when he always has great videos, some of the better ones on this hellscape that is called You Tube. I mean, who are you calling "fools"? The owner, the dude with his 19 year old son, the scientist? Some of them were just sightseers. The owner may have been arrogant but he paid with his life just like the rest. I'm sure he felt it was safe, or convinced himself it was. I think anyone who feels the need to do these risky things is kind of silly (I don't want to call them fools), but that's just me.
EDIT JUNE 26: Hijacking this top comment to answer to claims that I am being an OceanGate "apologist". I'm sorry if my intention wasn't clear on this video; I am in no way affiliated with the organisation nor commenting on whether it was right or wrong to use this submersible. I only mentioned OceanGate's MISSION STATEMENT and pointing out that, at their core, OceanGate is an organisation with a scientific purpose with many operations not just related to Titanic dives. For Titanic specifically their science missions did the following; - Film Titanic in high definition from many angles to track deterioration and try to capture, on camera and in high definition, undersea organisms - Take water samples and use DNA analysis to identify organisms and try to match this with the footage taken from that specific dive Whether this is correct scientific method is beyond me; I just wanted to point out that OceanGate, the entire company, is not a sightseeing organisation as a whole based the above information. What is clear is that their business model then relied on public backers to keep these missions going and that those backers were given the opportunity to join the dives as assistants. Whether this is a pure "tourist" operation is open to interpretation by the viewer - I think it is a part of the business model but not the entire thing. I have not made any comment on whether the methodology or design doctrine was right or wrong - I have merely outlined what that design doctrine was. A CORRECTION: In referring to Titan’s wall thickness I mentioned 7” when I actually meant to say 5”, 127mm. Apologies for this misspeak! ANOTHER CORRECTION: Some of you have pointed out that my De Havilland Comet metaphor is based on outdated information. Thanks for this and I will read more into it, but suffice it to say the original point still stands - that a spherical structure or a round structure does a better job at distributing stresses evenly throughout the structure.
@OceanlinerDesigns, at the beginning of the video you say creating a vessel like Titan is not about tourism but about research & exploration. But then many have said there is no need for humans to do this anymore since ROVs can do a better job and more safely. Also if not for the aim of facilitating tourists, the design compromises would not have been made.
@@matildafaltyn6253 from online Smithsonian Magazine August 24, 2010 Commemorating 100 Years of the RV For almost as long as there have been automobiles, recreational vehicles have been traversing America "The recreational vehicle turns 100 years old this year. According to the Recreational Vehicle Industry Association, about 8.2 million households now own RVs. They travel for 26 days and an average of 4,500 miles annually, according to a 2005 University of Michigan study. The institute estimates about 450,000 of them are full-time RVers ".
Very informative video, Mike. Although Ocean Gate existed supposedly for science, Rush was still criminally negligent in many areas involving the Titan. He, obviously, had faith in his design but had definitely not reached the point where the Titan had been confirmed safe for others to join the dives.
@@AverageAlienthey didn’t know fully. At least most of them didn’t you can’t expect a laymen to understand the risks of a new technology. Stockton was a great face man. He made reassurances. There are several known instances of people backing out because they didn’t like the engineering and Stockton trying to fly to them and convince them to do it. I’m sure that most people who signed the waver didn’t have full understand of the true danger. In fact I watched an interview with a guy that had nothing but great things to say about his experience on his oceangate titanic dive. But he did say that if he had any idea of the true risk due to shoddy engineering he would not have gone. Also the who notion that the victims brought this on themselves is a very gross mentality. They’re still people with families and their deaths are tragic.
@@AverageAlienWaivers are null and void if either side engages in relevant criminal activity. Criminal negligence would most certainly kill the waivers.
I'm honestly surprised they found it. Amidst all that wreckage, they were able to locate (at least part of) that tiny submersible. Says a lot for the skill of those involved.
It does, but it also helps that they had a _very specific_ destination for exactly where they were _going._ If you know someone is going to a specific place and back again and they become lost in a manner that would probably preclude them being anywhere else but where they fell, your search area is pretty limited.
@@segasys1339 was widely reported in the news. apparently titanic tour subs like to land off the bow so that it's the first part of the ship that comes into view. they don't land too close though as they don't want to risk accidentally touching down on the ship itself
I'm glad James Cameron said what we were all thinking. The irony of the situation is astounding. This didn't need to happen. Those who don't learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.
@@KarldorisLambley He's not stating it...he's repeating was James Cameron has stated in about a dozen interviews over the last 48 hours, and he's one of the most knowedgeable submersible experterts on the planet. It's apparant that you're just tuning in.
7:45 there's a huge difference between using a wired controller of good quality to operate some specific equipment and using a bluetooth controller infamous for its clumsy performance to operate the entire thing. The philosophy was not "simplicity", it was "let's just cut any possibile corner because I'm smarter than anyone else".
I know that their deaths are said to have been instantaneous and painless, but right before it, the fact that they had the time to try some methods of resurfacing means that they had at least some seconds that they knew that something was wrong... and that's a horrifying feeling to imagine.
It's still better than knowing that something's wrong and then being stuck down there slowly waiting for the oxygen to run out as you feel the pressure of the water on your torso. I'll take an istantaneous painless death over that anytime.
Pure speculation, the first indication of an issue may have been a sound similar to a small rock hitting our auto’s windshield. The ramifications would have been apparent to all.
The indications of resurfacing most likely were nothing but false signals sent as the computer link failed. The sub was destroyed, power was lost, and the indicators defaulted/the emergency release activated (there was, I think, something like that) or an emergency system activated anyway, sending enough of a signal to register before the whole thing fell silent.
I still can't believe nor comprehend Stockton Rush's UTTER RECKLESSNESS. EVERY SAFETY CONCERN voiced to him he brushed off. He had ZERO BUSINESS being at the depth of 12,500 feet where the Titanic has sat since 1912. If I was going on a sub, I would WANT TO BE with James Cameron or Bob Ballard. Their KNOWLEDGE WOULD KEEP YOU SAFE & ALIVE. This just simply SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. The 19 year old male onboard with his Dad was "Terrified" about the excursion. Such a shame.
I appreciate as always Mike's brilliant presentation, but just from the info that has been publicly available and finally coming more to light, it's already very safe to add that Stockton Rush was beyond reckless and negligent. He was the boss of the operation from top to bottom, and was the only person with the authority to fully question things, an authority which he regularly abdicated. People make a fuss about the game controller, but that was possibly the most reliable component of the whole system, being a widely proven and dependable item. To ferry people to Titanic though, he used a highly unproven experimental and novel construction. The titanium caps were essentially glued with epoxy to the carbon fiber composite hull, and rather than the adhesives being applied in clean room conditions, they were done in an open air building by people in street clothes. Due to their design, the seams formed by the epoxy-joined composite and titanium segments would have been impossible to scan for damage even had Stockton Rush ever wanted to. Moreover, experts in carbon fiber such as advanced bicycle part engineers have fully known for years that carbon fiber composites degrade progressively with use under stress, can fail catastrophically at the worst possible moments, and that even with careful examination may only be known to be at risk only after they have already failed. Every one of the many cracks heard by passengers, as reported on earlier trips, was damage, accruing incrementally over time. Stockton Rush was not going to retire Titan any time soon, could never have detected its growing faults, and reacted bitterly to experts suggesting that he was putting lives in danger. So, Titan's eventual destruction was all but guaranteed. I don't expect any pieces of the composite hull or the bodies to ever be found; the immense pressure and energy of an implosion occurring at hundreds of atmospheres of pressure is hard to comprehend, but it would literally be over in milliseconds, superheating the air inside momentarily and turning the entire hull and its contents into small particles before the unfortunate occupants could even register the collapse. Stockton Rush made claims about NASA, Boeing, and the University of Washington being involved with the sub's engineering, which are now known to be greatly overstated. His victims, yes I say HIS victims, may have been considered crew members rather than tourists, but I struggle to see how a Pakistani billionaire father and his unwilling teenage son, whom he had to heavily coerce to overcome his initial refusal to join him, can be considered anything but unwitting clients, being given so many false assurances after paying hundreds of thousands of dollars.
You are 100% on point. Totally hubristic and negligent. A modern Icarus (of the Ocean). But at least Icarus only took himself out, Rush took 4 other lives with him in his folly. I feel so so terrible for Suleman the teenaged boy. When I heard how they died I cried for hours thinking about him in his final moments, and the pain his mother and sister must be going through. Ugh. Just terrible. May they rest in peace.
@@yoowan3437 You are incorrect and probably didn't even read or comprehend my comments. Mike is advising against spreading rumors. I am commenting on things that are known to be factual. With due respect to Mike, he was not yet aware that Titan's hull was glued together with epoxy. Perhaps he was not yet aware that the viewport wasn't rated for anywhere near Titanic's depth. He along with everyone else wants to know what went wrong.
Paragraphs, man, please use your return key! That having been said, I actually will take issue with the game controller. Not "because it's a game controller," but because: 1. The use of a _wireless_ controller introduces two additional, _unnecessary_ points-of-failure to a mission-critical component, that being power supply and wireless connectivity, when wired controllers work just fine and have neither problem; 2. Did they have a backup? The Navy uses the damn things because they're cheap, ergonomically tested far better than anything they ever could do, and you can send a sailor out with a rented van and a "company" card and return with a hundred of the things new-in-box in an hour and a half. So if the one they're using then breaks, they just toss it in the trash and pull out another one. Did Rush have a spare aboard? Probably not, knowing him.
Thank you. Speaking as a naval architect, this has actually been probably the single best-done video on this accident. You’re clear, concise, and level-headed, and you’re actually knowledgeable about this type of thing.
No he's not - he didn't even bother learning about how they attached the titanium to carbon fiber, and he makes other asinine assumptions which lead to conclusions such as that this was a scientific expedition instead of a commercial venture for rich tourists.
"Actually knowledgeable about this type of thing"...uhh. What?? He has zero experience in engineering and applied sciences. He's just a dumb youtuber who watched the movie Titanic and became a fan boy. Get lost.
@@Gubastekhe is. When you listen carefully he says the used this kind of dives to fund other dives which were more scientific. And why he didn't mention the issue of attachment of titanium to carbon fire? Because that would be speculating from his 🔚.
And who are you to say such things? So far both the guy you’re responding to and the guy who made the video have made their own credentials known. To the outside you look like a commentor who’s arguing baseless information they heard elsewhere with no sources to back it up
Small correction about the comet, it didn't exploded because of the square windows, it didn't had square windows, they were rounded on the corners, the real reason was metal fatigue on the suboptimal aluminum alloy it was used, it wasn't good enough to withstand the pressure on the new altitudes it was supposed to go, also the rivets left microscopic cracks that eventually made the structure to be torn apart, and unlike modern aircraft, instead of tearing apart the skin and keep flying, it just couldn't hold on the structure and the plane broke apart almost instantly.
Also, IIRC, they didn't test the entire hull, but only parts for cyclic fatigue and the number of tests was too small to properly assess the number of cycles the hull could withstand. Which is actually quite close to what happened with Titan.
Turns out that the Nimrod is basically a military version of the Comet with the faults ironed out & was in service for many years after the demise of the commercial version.
Thank you, I came to the comments to add the same correction. The square windows, had they actually been squares, would of course have acted exactly as Mike described.
On top of the airframe, directly over the flight engineer’s station, were two small, square windows. These were used in conjunction with the radio equipment, guaranteeing good signals. They were supposed to be glued-in, but instead they were punch riveted, forming tiny cracks. After so many flights these cracks expanded and grew down the hull to the windows. It was at this point that failure occurred. Also, the aluminum used in the airframe was the thickness of two pennies.
They took a Comet Aircraft hull, placed it in a tank of water then filled the hull with water to what the pressurised hull would be. They then cycled this to represent take offs and landings. They also recovered a lot of one of the aircraft from the Mediterranean seabed and rebuilt it around a frame in a hanger. The hull that was being pressurised failed unexpectedly and suddenly. A crack emanated from the corner of a window. Airframe fatigue was a new science at the time and a lot of this was unknown. When the Comet 2 was put into operation the windows were small and rounded. The RAF Nimrod was a variation of this aircraft and flew successfully until 2011 and then retired. There were a couple of airframe losses, one over Afghanistan unrelated to the original problem.
I wanna hear some type of audio from their last moments like the stuff they have when airplanes crash maybe something that will float up to the surface
@@FJBrandonthe difference is that planes have blackboxes by law. These spoiled and reckless "innovators" were too cool for a blackbox or transponder, so we'll never know a lot of things.
What he says here isn’t true is actually exactly true lol. The ppl who paid to go onboard were designated a scientific sounding role but were really passengers. You can see from everything coming out now that this man was surfing on the edge of reason. He wanted to be a pioneer (in his design), and refused regulatory testing due to this, it literally blew into his face. And he has helped prove the reason that regulation and testing exists.
Rules and regulations are written in blood. It's baffling that someone venturing to a hostile environment would ignore the regulations and forgo certification...
There is literally hundreds of times more information within this video then I found in aggregate of all the news sources I read and viewed. I have no idea how you are able to write the script, collect the visuals, and produce the drawings you did, but the effort is nothing short of amazing. Given the speed with which you accomplished it is something I could have expected only from the staff the size of the largest news organizations. But they didn't do it, you did. A phenomenal achievement!
That's hardly surprising really. Folk who watch Mike have an interest in the maritime events, as does Mike. Opposed to news outlets who cater to the general public, who have no interest in details, and the news outlets have no interest in proving them. It's a sad reflection thou.
The fact that it was know it was to implode on monday and news dragged it out to cover whats happening to the Biden's is actually hilarious. Fake new is real. See what James Cameron knew.
@@_5_675 GLUED ON? WITH WHAT, SUPER GLUE? Only asking because something clearly did not hold. The window bothered me too. I know zip about underwater craft, but anyone should know the porthole glass should have been rated for 13000 ft, not 1300 ft.
@@knitwit7082There’s video a few years old online showing how Titan was constructed, where you can see how an adhesive was applied to attach the end caps to the carbon fibre cylinder. I don’t believe the specific type of adhesive glue has been mentioned yet.
that sonar sound made my cat SO UPSET. jumped off the couch and has been looking around in confusion with wide eyes for the past 5 minutes.... never seen him react like that to any noise lmao
Well said Jack, well said. The entire situation is very unfortunate, but sometimes ignorance and catastrophic losses are what it takes to make the future safer for everyone.
Technical info is good here. It’s just odd to be so deferential to OceanGate and Rush’s intentions. There are now public records that demonstrate the gaping negligence of this company at nearly every level. Whatever “scientific” goals this company had, their broader aim was to sell this uncertified technology to other companies, and they were using unwitting civilians whom they got to sign waivers without even knowing about the actual risks that real experts had made clear. If there were a buyer, they would have happily sold this technology to other companies also willing to cut corners and put their workers at risk. At least now the chances of that happening are next to zero. Just unfortunate that people had to pay that price with their lives.
That still remains to be seen imo. As i understand it, oceangate has closed and started liquidating it's assets which would include its sub tech. Lets hope this unsafe tech doesn't claim any more lives. Buyer beware, the ocean isn't a safe place if your craft essentially consists of a carbonfiber toilet paper tube with 2 titanium domes j.b. welded to the ends.
what do u expect this guy is a titanic fanboy, his entire channel is dedicated to ocean liners like the titanic. he wanted to one day visit the real titanic himself for sure, and now his dream is crushed because titanic tourism is dead
@@emikomina That's a rather harsh thing to say. This, admittedly, is my first time looking at this channels content, and he didn't come accross as a 'Fanboy' at all. I heard specific, seemingly factual, information about what we know up to this point in regard to what happened. The information about OceanGate itself was simply the information that OceanGate themselves had filed. If a company files paperwork stating that their primary goal is A, and that B may occur to gather funds. Then reporting that that is what they had filed is factual. Regardless of whether or not this person has an interest, in one day being a deep sea tourist, has no bearing on the information they have provided. I didn't hear him saying that mistakes were not made, he only provided information, and specifically stated that it was too early to place blame. I found this quite informational, and it helped educate me on things about the tradgedy that I wasn't completely read up on. And, from what I can see, THAT was the entire point of this video.
As a complete layman it seems to me the acoustic warning system that drops the weights if the pressure vessel makes telltale noises of impending breakup was worthless because once you hear those noises you have seconds to react, and the ship can't change its depth significantly in seconds. It took hours for it to free fall to the target depth of ~12000 feet. Lets say the cracking noises happened at 10000 feet, they took action and dropped the weights, but then the momentum of the ship still continued downward for a second, then slowed to a stop, then reversed to begin accelerating upward, and all that action took say 5 to 10 seconds before the ship attained any significant upward speed. It may have managed to reduce its depth by a couple hundred feet before BOOM, it imploded at say 9800 feet, which was not enough pressure reduction in time to save them. Like the Titanic was unable to make enough course correction in the time it had to react to the sighting of the iceberg.
@@isleofthanet Yes, I have read that assessment by experts decades ago, that if Titanic had rammed the iceberg head on then it would not have breached as many watertight compartments and would have not sunk, or at least would have stayed afloat a lot longer and would have still been afloat when help arrived. The trade off would have been that potentially hundreds of people in the front of the ship would have died in the impact of such a collision, and the officer commanding the ship would have to answer for that. There was no way the commanding officer with seconds to react would order the ship to ram the iceberg, sacrificing the lives of some to save the rest of those on the ship. There just was no realistic opportunity to consider options like that in the seconds of time allowed to react. There was also no time to consider ship engineering outcomes of say 3 compartments breached vs 5 compartments breached, etc. It was all or nothing, he had to try to steer around the iceberg.
@@onemoremisfit The main point is: We know all these things about the accident because hundreds if not thousands of scientists researched every little detail for more than a century. From the comfort of our arm chairs it's very easy to say they should have done this or they should have done that. If there is one thing they should have done differently - going into a known iceberg area with a vessel this big at 22 knots at calm sea state and therefore hardly detectable icebergs seems to be the second best idea.
@@onemoremisfit Only realistic way the Titanic would have hit the iceberg head on would be if the lookouts had taken longer/failed to spot it and there wasn't enough time to turn away.
Unfortunately I don’t think this company made it clear to their passengers that this was a very experimental, unproven sub. I read their brochure about the Titanic mission for prospective crew members (before it was taken down) and there’s not much in there about how risky it is. Before all of this happened I had watched some of their Titanic videos but had no idea it was such a poorly designed vessel. Thanks for this informative video!
@stephernoodle. so far all the interviewed passengers have verified that Rush made it clear to them that this was an experimental vessel. What he did was make that a 'reason' for why they could ignore that it was an uncertified, unclassified vessel (can't be certified yet, too innovative). He also used it as an emotional hook for his targets, which were of two main types: Prospective paying passengers who were attracted to unusual and risky adventures. Also, prospective discount/sponsored passengers who had huge media/TH-cam followings, who could be depended on to provide free publicity to millions for Oceangate Titan. He did this by connecting 'experimental' with "ahead of the pack", nobody else is doing this, "you'll actually be Crew participating in groundbreaking science", etc. A Supersalesman is what he was, who was basically making a bug appear to be a feature.
He may have informed them that the vessel was experimental, but I highly doubt that he disclosed "all" the problems that the Titan had to "paying/potential" customers ("mission specialists"), and just how cheap and experimental the vehicle really was. Did they fully know and understand all the issues with that submersible, such as thrusters and computer/control systems problems they were having just days prior to Mission V, which he stated, was like "life support"? Were all the problems fully resolved, considering they had to sign waivers? It was his responsibility to fully disclose everything, as they had to sign waivers -- speaking in terms of the paying customers, not the guest, because I believe, PH fully knew what was going on. Honestly, Rush was not a "supersalesman," but an extremely dangerous and delusional man, who double talked (a liar/deceiver). He went on record saying, "safety is pure waste," but apparently, he made those people feel the vessel was safe to some degree. According to a news source, the wife of the Pakistani billionaire reported, SR and his wife flew to London and met with them some months prior to Mission V, where he discussed the mission and reassured them the Titan was safe.
@@dogood1785 I'm commenting based on what Rush is generally known to have done, not what he "should have", or "might have". Of course he wouldn't have disclosed every problem! Apparently you think calling him a Supersalesman is a positive.....it's not. Clearly he sold a lot of otherwise intelligent, successful people on his inept, bad venture. And that's all he was expert at: sales. Not engineering, Deep Sea diving, or even building a successful company.
If he was a science enthusiast, WHY didn't Dawood not realize that carbon fiber only supports EXPANSION force by stretching, like gas tanks, and is FAR weaker under compression. It was just stupid to use an open compound structure that can delaminate when water enters the layers under high pressure.
One of the other passengers, Hamish, was extremely experienced in submersible exploration and extreme adventure. Very shocking no questions were asked.
He knew that carbon fibre is weak under compressive loading, everyone knows that. So many experts in the comments by people who don't really understand the facts. Simple pre-dive hull scan ($20,000 but still affordable), thicker hull and we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The Titan which can carry 5, cost $370,00 or about 1% of a metal hulled sub that can only carry two at $37 million.
The idea that this company was primarily interested in the scientific aspects of diving on the Titanic and allowing paying passengers to go along was secondary is ridiculous. This company was in it for the money and cut corners sacrificing the safety issues to improve their bottom line.
What money? It was NOT profitable, they spent a million dollars in diesel fuel just hauling the submersible out there and back, that’s why they charged $250k per person, it was simply to recoup losses.
Yes, I might’ve missed something, but…I don’t really see where they contributed any scientific knowledge or research. It’s what they said they wanted to do, sure, and they recorded video footage, yes. But how exactly did that require many millions of dollars from tourists, or any passengers at all? And what did that video footage ultimately provide to our scientific knowledge, besides cool video footage? We’ve known for a long time that the Titanic would decay. And if they were interested in science, why forgo the scientific principles of adequate testing and proven safety methods in building the submarine? If anyone has refutations to my questions, I welcome them, I know that there’s a lot I don’t know.
@@thebeaz1We literally can. It’s a fact that is clearly demonstrated by all of the design choices made by Ocean Gate’s leadership, and even more clearly by the results of those choices. This isn’t complicated: a clout-hungry libertarian wanted fame and wealth, and what he got was infamy and blood on his hands.
Mike, a quick note on how the titanium rings were attached: they were bonded using an epoxy (in layman's terms--they were glued together). It is concerning that this was done in a warehouse (as seen in your video). Any dust or particulates could have gotten in and created a potential source of weakness in the epoxy. In addition to the many other shortcomings of this design, the building practices also fell short. Given the tolerances involved, this step should have been performed in a controlled clean room.
So the joins were made of three different materials (cf, epoxy, titanium)? Wouldn't at least one of the three behave differently at the various pressures and temperatures the machine experienced?
@@exasperated you have four total materials in this join: titanium, epoxy, and the cf (which is a composite of carbon fiber and another epoxy). You have two epoxies, a non-metallic composite material, and a metal.
@@exasperatedWhen I initially viewed the video of the sub's end cap to carbon fibre tube joining process, I saw the handwriting on the wall. Critical processes were being done under contaminated conditions, epoxy was applied using a paint brush with no control of the amount or precise location, the physical joining of the elements was done using no stable alignment mechanism (a k.a. the "we got lucky this time" process control system) that leads to momentary canting of the end caps as they are inserted into the tube (causing irregular distribution of the epoxy in the interface area.) These potentially seriously degraded bonds are then subjected in use to the effect of the greatly differing coefficients of thermal expansion between the carbon fibre tube and the titanium end caps when the sub cools at depth in frigid ocean water. All of the preceding could have easily contributed to a separation of the thermally shrunken end caps' OD's from the tube ID's, creating stresses at depth that the carbon fibre tube ends could not withstand. Even the smallest crack or delamination in the tube would have led to the total failure of the tube at depth. The science of what I wrote is sound. It may not have been the cause of the catastrophic failure; but in my gut, I have to believe it almost certainly was.
@@exasperated sarei andato sul sicuro, progetto al di sopra di ogni sospetto, la sfera del Trieste è ancora visitabile, 12 cm di acciaio temperato, ha portato un uomo sul fondo della fossa delle marianne.
The number of people defending the CEO is astounding to me. As I recall he basically went on TV and said “I’m gonna ignore all safety procedures because they stifle development and increase cost and complexity.” Why anyone would defend a guy like this is absolutely beyond me. It’s entirely possible to be innovative while still following basic safety protocols.
Rush not only has his own blood on his hands but also the blood of every passenger that rode on the Titan. My heart really goes out to the fifteen year old boy that was forced to ride with his father. I’m sure he had a psychic premonition before getting on that boat
@@JonathanSparks-ht4vq I think he was actually 19, but nevertheless, he did not really want to go but was talked into going by his father. Ultimately, he only went because he didn’t want to disappoint his father, but he was uncomfortable with the idea right up to the end.
Because he’s not wrong. The safety measures do increase costs and are why almost all deep sea innovation is done by the US Navy. These safety measure are important, and he never should have ignored them, but another tragedy in this is innovation will now further be limited because they’ve set such a terrible example.
Important note on SOSUS: The data is not listened to in real time. It is recorded and analyzed by computer or manually at a later time. At the time of Titan's destruction, the Navy did NOT know something had happened - it was only upon directed review that they learned about an *anomaly* in the region of the wreck. This is suggestive, but in no manner is it definitive.
I wish the media would make this clearer. I’ve seen so many people already screaming this was some kind of conspiracy by the Navy/Coast Guard to cover it up, lord only knows why they’d do such a thing. It wouldn’t have mattered even if they’d heard it in real time, they had to be sure.
I didn't know your channel existed prior to this tragedy. That being being said, i couldn't be more impressed with your knowledge, content, and story storytelling. Keep up the great work!
He makes some of the best content for those of us in the Titanic/ocean liner community. You will learn a lot from him, I've researched all the old steamers since i was a kid, and I still learn more details from him.
@Jay-gf8tm was going to type something out but you said it all. Ive fancied myself a boat/ocean liner/naval nerd since i was 8 years old. Mike still teaches me things about things ive researched in the past. For me hes the GOAT of what they call the 'boat people" aka the Titanic community
@@tinypoolmodelshipyard I look at a lot of younger people who seem to be very misguided. It's refreshing to see someone who's young and so concise and knowledge about a subject. Just very impressed.
You could easily spend a couple of weeks just watching (and rewatching) all his videos. Amazing stuff. Titanic: Honor and Glory is also a great channel, but they focus more on interiors and reproductions and the actual Titanic sinking. Oceandesigns is much more wide ranging.
The possibility that they heard or felt the bulkhead failing for seconds or minutes is terrifying. Even if they never knew it happened, they knew it was going to happen.
Thinking of that nineteen year old who didn’t even want to be there I hoped fervently that he never knew a thing. But given that they tried to drop ballast…I fear he had time to be afraid.
@@SmartStart24don't read about the USS Thresher that submarine was lost during a crash dive test in 1963. An entire submarine crew lost when it sank past crush depth. They probably did not have much time for fear because they were professional submariners and were trying everything they could to regain control of the sub of course they did know that they were in severe danger.
@@marilynsgirl01I know that's what sucks the most he was only there do to pressure from his father to go for Father's Day the kids aunt said he had been having bad dreams about the sub and wasn't scared but absolutely terrified to go I pray he knew peace and nothing of the disaster that was to come..✌🏽
This is the first time ive ever heard a modern sonar ping. I never realized how loud they actually are. Great video Mike, and thank you for covering this subject.
I swear, that thing made me jump out of my chair! It’s like when your smoke detector goes off but has multiple tones and frequencies, dear lord that’s ear piercing!
Modern sonar can severely injure divers if it is too close to them. Modern sonar gets recorded all the time by recreational scuba divers in the Bahamas, there are recordings of it on YT.
@@mikoto7693they are much much MUCH louder even than heard here. The ship firing these probably was a couple dozen kilometers away at least + these were already bounced off indirect waves since even 100km away a direct hit would kill you. If you can actually see the ship that's sonaring you.. you're permanently deaf immediately and you'll suffer severe nausea and disorientation.. any closer and the soundpressure will even kill you by rupturing your lungs and blood vessels in your brain. Sound is measured in decibels which is a logarhytmic function. Means for each 10dB more the sound is 10 times as powerful. Jet fighters are about 140dB. The most powerful active sonar boasts 230dB. You can do the math from here.
As we say in the mariner community, Safety regulations and procedures are often written in blood. Hope some type of regulation is signed into law so this never happens again.
So true!! The wreck of the Lusitania lies in Irish water and the Irish government has a strong set of regulations to protect the site. I think the Titanic needs such protection by international agreement. The time has come.
@@KiwiSentinel Not really a thing you can do though, its in international waters, no one is allowed to claim it. The best we got in an agreement the US tried to do that would have the UK, France, Canada, and the US all protecting it, but I dont think France or we in Canada really care enough, the US has money to throw around on useless things like that, we dont.
It is truly tragic that P.H. Nargeolet passed away in this easily avoidable tragedy. He was one of the most prolific explorer's to the titanic, and I wouldn't know nearly as much as I do without his efforts
@nomenclature9607Nargeolet was a titanic expert. He was the head of a Titanic research org. He is on video expressing concern about the design. He may have been tempted to go down to gather info and talked himself into the risk. I still think the 19 year old is the saddest. Life is just beginning.
@nomenclature9607wasn’t a poor choice. They just didn’t test it at all plus things that go through a shit ton of pressure and the a little bit of pressure over and over again get weaker every time. That’s why they retire aircraft’s because instead of just fox them And use them again
@nomenclature9607 the kid actually didn't want to go, and unlike the others, him and his father weren't explorers or experts. I suspect like Jay Bloom's son, he maybe did research and found the issues, or maybe not....but felt he had to go cos it was Father's day. I feel truly sad for him and his father, they had little idea of what they were getting into cos Stockton was claiming it was safer than driving a car.
I am glad you are covering this. This is the one channel I trust to have the knowledge talk about the events without being sensational or opportunistic. Having watched this channel for a while, I have sometimes lamented that you spent so much time on Titanic. But I knew why you did. It was a ‘Flagship’ (no pun intended) wreck. As you said, Titanic gets viewers who then learn about a great deal of the science and history of similar vessels and wrecks. My background is Environmental Science and we use ‘Flagship Species’ (official term) to attract attention to ecosystems, biomes and issues. Such as Koala conversation in my part of Eastern Australia to get support for forest management. I am not a Titanic fan, but every video is full of so much information, it is fascinating. And this is why I knew that Oceanliner Designs would offer a clear, well informed overview of what has happened. And I was not disappointed.
it is really baffling how we reached a point where people dont believe mainstream media, because of their nature to rush for sensational news before objective truthful reporting AND we come for objective and matured opinions on specific subjects to platform known for shit quality content full of misinformation
Exactly! With the exception of PH, I find it laughable to call them a group of scientists. Sometimes in an attempt to be diplomatic you paint two sides as equally valid viewpoints, and that’s a mistake.
From what I gather the safety compromises weren't *NOT* to cater to the tourism angle, and it's hard to get past the general shoddiness. Could they not have made a smaller and more traditional design that would just accommodate less passengers?
like what science were they even studying? chemistry? geology? biology? what equipment did they have aboard to conduct the research they were supposedly carrying out?
A lot of the talk around OceanGate and Stockton Rush is pretty damning. His refusal to get third party certification on an experimental submersible AND take tourist on board is simply inexcusable. Stockton Rush has said in interviews he believes certifications would slow down progress and stifle innovation. The real kicker, though, is he claimed all these certifications were overkill because almost all issues experienced in deep sea submersible vehicles were human errors during operation, a fact which only serves to prove how essential and effective these testing methods are. He even refused an ultrasonic hull integrity test to find any imperceptible stress damage to the carbon composite material, which was the likely the cause of this tragedy.
Agreed - yet instead he went with a more expensive, entirely pointless 'safety' system. "He even refused an ultrasonic hull integrity test to find any imperceptible stress damage to the carbon composite material, which was the likely the cause of this tragedy." - even more bafflingly, he installed a sonic/strain-gauge based hull monitoring system to the submersible... which would give essentially zero warning and would only tell you once the damage has already happened. It's like fitting a smoke alarm that can only work once your entire house is on fire. Having it tested like you say would have potentially highlighted issues ahead of time.
Not necessarily. The hull was quite simply too _thin_ for the job. A vehicle can pass every imaginable certification and then catastrophically fail when put to a purpose its design is inadequate for. Even the legendarily indestructible Toyota Hilux pickup truck, after all, is only used as a vehicle in warfare by the desperate.
Everyone keeps saying the same thing, but it would never be certified, even if it were 100% safe because the technology is new and there are unknowns. Simple as.
@@methylene5None of the technology is new. The only innovations made were methods of cutting corners. And even if this were the case, that would only mean that the technology wasn't ready to be used for this application at all and shouldn't be used. If you were told you were getting into an experimental aircraft and "it's so new that they can't figure out how to safety test it," would you really, logically, decide to get on it?
As always your eloquence in these matters and respect for the lost souls of both maritime incidents shows how much you take the time to think about what you want to say. You're not going straight to words, but you think of the words you want to say. (If that makes sense.) You use your mind and your heart to speak, instead of just rushing out to say whatever just so you can be first to say something. I feel you're first to say something that is both thought provoking and being respectful to the matters at hand. You are definitely top shelf in my book. Have a lovely weekend and thank you for sharing your knowledge and explaining to us this incident.
Spot on. The lad's info and descriptive English is very well thought out. Unlike many TH-camrs, I rather sure that he actually reads over his script and makes amendments etc then reads through it again. Love this Chanel. It has given me a new interest
Except he missed the issue completely people had with the window. It's not that they don't know how pressure makes things seal, it's that it literally was only rated for 1300 m when the craft was going to 4000 m this video comes off as copium because of his love for the titanic. Also, there is a literal engineer's video who works on submersibles who completely makes this cope video sound like what it actually is. Someone coping with something attached to something they love. Hell, he probably even wanted to go on this submersible one day.
@@nerdjournal the fact he claimed this piece of garbage dollar store sub was a scientific study of the titanic and not a tourist operation said it all for me.
The material choice of carbon fibre over a proven metal pressure vessel baffles me. Everything I'm learning about this disaster just makes me wonder how Titan was ever meant to reach the depths of Titanic without risking failure
Probably a combination of hubris and "oh, engineers _always_ build in a huge margin of unnecessary safety so they don't get sued." The use of a carbon-fiber pressure vessel may not _inherently_ be a fatal objection, but at the bare minimum it needed to be _thicker._ Five inches sounds like a lot, and if you're making an aeroplane to fly up high in the sky, or a racing car or whip around the track at Le Mans, it's insane. At 3,800m of North Atlantic, it's insanely thin.
Because with Titanium it would only fit 1 or 2 passengers. They wanted more. Its a story of a company in red and continuing to lose money cutting corners to try and squeeze a profit.
The Titan cost around $370,000. For a metal hull that can only carry two people, will set you back $37 million. 100 times the cost. The carbon fibre hull should have been thicker, and even at 5" thickness it had completed 13 prior successful trips to the Titanic. It's a no brainer why they were tempted to use carbon fibre.
But it did reach the bottom 13 times before it failed. This is a tragedy, but it is also showed us that carbon fiber CAN withstand the crushing weight of those depths if it’s done right and inspected often.
@@quietcosmos.it didn't reach the bottom 13 times... this was "mission" 5 with a "crew" and the others were test dives and not all of those were successful
I’m a licensed Mariner, (Tankermen on big river boats called towboats pushing barges sometimes longer than 4 American football fields in length), working 28 days a hitch up and down all the main river systems in America, such as the Mississippi River. As a Mariner, I just want to thank you for taking these videos serious and for doing so in a professional manner. I speak on experience when I say our industry, especially working on towboats, is one of the most dangerous and hard working jobs in the work/labor industry. When disaster strikes on the water, it doesn’t just happen lightly, it HITS and when it does, you gotta be on your shit. It can come down to one minor mistake or distraction to determine whether or not you and your and your crew make it back home to your families safe. I’ve been in some serious life or death situations, multiple times. One scenario putting me in therapy and caused mild PTSD that I still deal with. Some nights while at home sleeping, I relive some of the moments in my dreams that are so realistic, I shoot out from under the covers in a panic, as if I’m in an actual emergency. But I love my job and this industry and wouldn’t want to have it any other way.
@@dimitristripakis7364I see towboats on the Danube pushing linked up barges with piles of sand etc. I can easily imagine it’s possible to oversee a small boat / Kayak / person on an air mattress (yes ppl do that here) or just you know, the oncoming traffic makes a mistake. These little tug/tow/push boats must have incredibly strong engines.
@@dimitristripakis7364 Hitting submerged objects, running into bridges, the tow breaking lose. Getting cut in half by a tow cable that suddenly snaps. Being knocked overboard. The list is endless.
It's gonna be strange to think that this site will no longer be only the final resting place for over 1500 people that tragically passed away well over a century ago, but also for a small handful of contemporary people that walked the Earth at the same time as us. In times when we think we have pretty much everything regulated and figured out, this serves as a grim reminder that there are always areas in which we can improve. Excellent, very respectfully presented and very informative video, Mike.
the ignorance that was displayed by the "professionals" is disgusting. loss of 5 lives because of it. tragic. i know nothing of any of these people. but alas, what a horrid way to go.
What I find even more strange and disgusting is that one accident wiped out families and the other a couple of rich tourist that knew what they were getting themselves into. One was all over the news.. the other on page 10.
18 seconds in. We do have certifications and industry standards that everyone else followed/follows in deep sea and in 60 years of deep dives there hasn't been an accident. This isn't an example of where we need to improve. It was one person who chose not to adopt readily available improvements we have. It was offered to him and suggested to him by former staff and leaders in field but he declined and sent people on a death mission. If someone chooses to drive a car 100 mph on highway and kills 5 people are we to say "This shows there are areas we need to improve". Anyway it's hardly a threat to anyone. 5 deaths in 60 years and of people that chose to risk their life in experimental vessel, we don't need to waste time on regulations. It must be amongst the least common and likely and most preventable ways to die in 21st century.
Thanks for your comprehensive and non inflationary coverage. The weird thing is that I only just recently started watching your other videos about the Titanic before all this happened in the last couple of weeks. Primarily because I was interested in the latest photo recreation.
The algorithm strikes again Which is probably why after the at least 10 different videos I've watched on the USS Thresher over the last year, they're now showing up even more
@@OceanlinerDesignsOther then the mission statement do you know of anything they discovered or researched that couldn't have been done by unmanned submersibles? Scientific thing seems more of an excuse as I can't find any discoveries prior to this?
@@OceanlinerDesignsit has indeed! I chose not to watch James Cameron's interview about this because my gut feeling was that it felt attention seeking to say he already knew it was lost. Have you seen it?
@doublelightangel From what I've seen, he did say that he didn't want to speak up because although he had mostly came to the conclusion long before the media found out, he knew it would be a pretty shitty thing to do, taking away the hope that people did have. So he tried to just let the story run it's course, despite already knowing the outcome
I respect your take on this, there is some good info here, like explaining how the power conservation makes sense because of the long descent times, but I also can't help but think (and I do understand why) you have some rose-colored glasses on right now too. There's a lot of information that's come out showing how negligent and deceptive the company was about the construction and operation of the sub.
11:25 In that video of the *actual* carbon fiber being wound, that activity probably should have taken place within a clean room. Because there were people within several inches of the carbon fiber being wound, particles of dust and other debris may have contaminated the carbon mesh, creating points of weakness. Over several dives, these points of weakness or delamination may have grown. Also, microscopic air bubbles in the carbon fabric could have produced a similar effect.
Yep. Inclusions that could collapse under pressure would weaken the hull. You are effectively reducing the thickness of the hull at the area where there is an inclusion. And these failures due to any inclusions will propogate...
I may sound like a broken record in this videos comments but this is a really good, unbiased, and accurate video discussing the tragic loss of Titan. Mike, keep on being the voice of the ocean liner community!
I must disagree with you about the controller. It was a wireless controller which is insane. What happens if it runs out of batteries? How many spare batteries did you bring? What if something happens with the wireless connection? Is there a backup system? Is there a hardwired controller in case something goes wrong?
Im by no means trying to defend ocean gate, taking people on expeditions on a experimental sub is ludacris. But in one of there videos they put out on there TH-cam channel they said they had 3 back up controllers, 1 being wired.
disagree with several of the points made. Especially the analogy that using a controller for the control of a human-manned submersible is equivalent to manipulating a weapons system on which human lives don't rely.
It's crazy to me that after 111 years, the Titanic is still claiming lives, and for largely similar reasons. The hubris and ignorance of safety measures of both the White Star line and Oceangate staff is what led to this tragedy
White Star didn't have a willfully negligent approach to safety though. They implemented safety measures that were higher than to the required regulatory standard at the time. In the grand scheme of things insufficient, of course - the gold standard of oceangoing safety being William Francis Gibbs, whose vessel Malolo in fact survived the very same type of collision that doomed _Empress of Ireland_ and _Andrea Doria,_ and which - along with _United States_ - would have easily survived the impact that felled _Titanic._ But they were not _negligent._ Stockton Rush, on the other hand, was _openly, and vocally opposed,_ to any kind of safety requirements being imposed on him. That's why the _Titan_ was not only uncertified, it had a waiver that mentioned 'death' like ten times, and tried to bypass liability by classifying paying passengers as "mission specialists." OceanGate, unlike White Star, was willfully negligent, and they are probably about to be sued out of existence.
The anger I have about this incident, is that the Titan should NEVER have been uncertified and have “customers” onboard. Especially when you are going to invite 19 year olds onto your Experiment ☹️
Who cares? The 19 year old was going to grow up too rich to learn empathy. He was going to inherit his father’s earth-destroying chemical industries, and no doubt continue down his father’s path. They all deserved what was coming to them.
People need to quit infantilizing the guy. 18 and 19y/os die everyday doing less risky things and equally risky activities and jobs that they and others in their lives deem safe.
@@nomorenames7323 I asume your lacking empathy for the needlessly deceased comes from the millions on your bank account? Or are you just a regular wanker on the internet?
Not to forget that you're a legal adult with 19, in just about every single country there is on this planet. Theres no difference in a 19 year old and a 50 year old signing a waiver saying they know of the risk of sudden death.
The issue I’ve always seen with carbon fiber pressure vessels like in automotive or other industries usually have a shelf life of 5-7 years before they start delaminating. It’s very unusual for them to not have issues and any exposure to sun shortens it’s life. I couldn’t believe they were still using the same sub after so many dives and years.
Lol, my materials science professor keeps touting that as an advantage, "imagine we could build complex machines that are compostable after a few years!".
@@c.w.8200that could make sense if technology or demand was changing rapidly. otherwise durability seems like a key desirable in creating industrial machinery
@@_5_675 a good example I thought of was carbon golf club shafts. They are under extreme forces when it comes to drivers and are used over and over and have gone through years of development. They just start blowing up after a couple years of use. When I played a lot you would see it about every 6 months or so when playing in groups. I just don’t get how they didn’t see the safety issue
@@c.w.8200 I'd say ask that prof if he was willing to bet his life on something that's compostable but you're probably better off just keeping quiet. His mind's made up, don't confuse him with inconvenient scenarios. It could get ugly.
I’m an aerospace engineer and what really bothers me is Stockton Rush’s bragging that he didn’t “follow the rules”. The design and materials were already bad enough, but they didn’t even conduct any NDT (non destructive testing) on the hull. Things like fluorescent particle inspection (FPI) to detect surface defects such as linear indications (small cracks) or CT scanning to detect any internal voids. This is so irresponsible and quite frankly criminal!
Not to mention he said in an interview that he didn’t want to hire subject matter experts who he said were “old white men”, but instead hired based on diversity.
@@chrisr2507I don't think the hiring was driven by 'diversity'. Younger staff are cheaper, and might be more eager to say 'yes'. SR himself was an old white man.
What blew my mind was he stated that any safety checks and approaches that were being taken were those concerning your field, aerospace, and not safety approaches that were typically used in ocean traversal. I was just thinking “but you’re not flying, you’re going into the ocean and should prepare for that”. What sort of logic is that?!
@@wedrivebynight He was a daredevil who thought he could mess with an feature of the earth that has been killing fools and the well prepared alike since man first built ship.
@@chrisr2507 More than half the crew involved in the expedition were white men, just an FYI. This “diversity” narrative doesn’t pan out under scrutiny.
The entire time I was following the Titan news I was thinking about Mike Brady’s expertise and the eventual video we may get discussing the event. This video was even sooner and better than I expected. Amazing explanations whilst being sensitive to the victims like you always are. Thank you!
I think its fair to say this company was funded by an egomaniac who completely ignored experts opinions. "Scientific"doesn't count as a defense if you don't do decent research about acceptable practices. there are many subs that can safely dive. He chose to take unreasonable risks unnecessarily. He was warned, and now an innocent 19 year old tragically lost their life.
The CEO hired people on the basis of "diversity" rather than qualification. His own words a couple years ago saying that he hired a diverse group of people , rather then a bunch of 50 year old "white people." His own words, not mine. Diversity over qualification. Go woke, be dead.
@@JTScott1988exactly, he was setting it up for failure and he knew it. I believe that’s why he was on every dive. He didn’t want to deal with the repercussions when it indeed failed.
Apparently, the community was concerned about this vessel. If exploring Titanic is truly science oriented why not pay certified vessels to take you down. Why add the layer of risk of an “experimental” vessel?
As ever, an intelligently written, well researched and presented video. Well done Mike and any colleagues! My condolences to you and the community for the loss of your friend PH.
I am a mechanical engineer that works for a composite pressure vessel manufacturer.. So i have a dog in this race... their testing and design are VERY flawed. No proof? no MEOP? No destructive testing? No cyclic testing? Absolutely insane! Also their boss interface is bad.. Their boss needed to be inter-woven with the composite structure and not just epoxied on and i guarantee they didnt prep that bond surface right with a clean room etching and a water bead test. also they probably didnt do a lap shear bond test on that interface.. It is absolutely insane that ANYONE was enter and submerge in that death trap!
Its terrible. Not one fail safe item like a pinger, or buoyancy device. Everything is a single point of failure and no backups. Really annoying to see such a bad design. And now people are at risk because of it. A horrible situation.
Crazy. They never even used a test vehicle to failure in an experimental setting. Didn’t have the money for it. They also didn’t even lay the carbon fibre in the way that prevents bubbles because it results in carbon fibre waste, which is an expensive material.
You probably won't want to open the sub yourself, even if it surfaced, as it would let water in and compromising the vessel. However, a system with a pump, would have been great.
Everything about it down to the colour. It'd be easier to spot a luminous orange object. But then customers may think "It's painted like a warning sign in case something goes wrong I'm not getting on" The whole thing was fashion over function. Profit over health and safety. Dishonesty over transparency etc.
If you're taking down first-time passengers, basically untrained, do you really want a panic-stricken person suffering from claustrophobia to be able to open the hatch?
If you're taking down first-time passengers, basically untrained, do you really want a panic-stricken person suffering from claustrophobia to be able to open the hatch?
It was said elsewhere that the submersible’s carbon fiber hull was wound in a warehouse type environment that wasn’t dust-free and was not temperature controlled.
You can see that in the footage on this video. it's got loads of people wandering around with cameras and stuff just watching as it's being wound. They also glued it in the same environment, and placed it together with a winch and a few people eye balling it as it was lowered down.
I do appreciate you trying to be nice, but there's a fine line between kindness and apologism, and imo you crossed it here. Rush's lack of respect for basic safety is on public record, in his own words; it's both undeniable and inexcusable. The people who've died as a result of his behaviour deserve better.
Maybe he will make another video about that when more time has passed. There is no excuse for Stockton Rush though, especially now we know a 19 year old boy did not want to go and is now lost.
I don't think he quite crossed that line, but I would also have appreciated if he acknowledged Rush's recklessness, or discussed how little safety testing was done during Titan's development.
Your channel has a quality, a rigour, a style and a good taste that surpasses many professionals in the news and broadcasting industry. Thank you very much, Mr. Brady.
That sonar sound was absolutely hideous! It hurt my brain! Thank you for this video, it explained things very clearly. I wish they’d said from the get-go that it had imploded since they knew it had. To keep the whole world and especially the families of those lost waiting seems very cruel and callous. I had random strangers coming up to me whilst in waiting rooms and queues commenting on how many hours of air they had left. I felt in my heart that it had imploded and never believed it was a rescue but lots of people did.
I've been doing research on the Titanic, as well as ocean explorations and deep sea diving for years and years. I had a feeling from the first, that it had imploded. But none of the people I know would listen, because they wanted to have hope. I gave them that and didn't argue. It's sometimes human nature to try and see the bright side of things.
The biden administration withheld the implosion news so it could keep people focused on that and not his son being charged and the new texts proving without a doubt he is a treasonous corrupt jello brain
@@batshtcrazy5293 Yeah. I was hoping they would be found. But I suspected it had been destroyed. The scenario of running out of oxygen actually scared me, even as an outsider. That's far worse than instant passing that comes with implosion.
Since they knew it had Did they? If you are referring to the noise the navy heard, they had no idea what they heard until now. Things make sounds in the ocean, you want them to report every single one?
This is actually down to even more irresponsibility by OceanGate. Cameron himself said that the biggest threat to a competently designed submersible visiting the Titanic is not the pressure, but getting entangled. Thus any visit should at least be accompanied by a second craft, usually an ROV. The fact that OceanGate had no ROV is just absurd. The Navy didn’t want to say they heard an implosion until it was confirmed. This is routine, if any competent organization had been involved they would have had an ROV to confirm the loss in mere hours.
Good video, with a lot of useful information. I want to comment on Carbon Fiber as a material. Carbon Fiber is one of the strongest materials known. It's commonly used in aviation for the pressure hulls and fairings. However, it is a FIBER... a THREAD... When you pull on it, it's incredibly strong. But when you push on it... Well, take a length of dental floss and pull on it. Then push the two ends together. That gives you an idea for how Carbon Fiber works. Make a bottle of carbon fiber and fill it with something and it can withstand massive amounts of internal pressure. However, that same bottle can be crushed with a fraction of that from outside. Using carbon fiber to make a submarine was a very strange decision.
Stockton was an aerospace engineer who forte was making aircraft where carbon fibre is used for pressure hulls as you said. Maybe he just didn’t have enough deep ocean engineering knowledge and didn’t listen to the experts
Thank you Mike for giving us a video without conjecture and just being all round respectful to everyone affected by this tragedy. Hopefully lessons can be learned from what happened and the Titan's crew's deaths will not be in vain. It seems kind of surreal that the Titanic wreck is now not only a resting place for people from a century ago, but from folks who would have been among us mere weeks before. May they rest in eternal peace
Im, not sure that their bodies are resting there, but the craft is I believe they implode at 3500 feet down, which means the bodies could have easily been carried anywhere by currents.
The lessons were already learned, the price in lives already paid to find those limits. Stockton Rush wilfully chose to ignore those lessons, and now he and four others are dead as a result.
Oh wow, the video of the sonar with the divers was really cool. Hearing it travel away from them really gives a better understanding of how that works.
Mike, you are an amazing educator. Your content has fascinated me since I stumbled across your channel, but now, with a tragic but current event, you are sharing your expertise to help us cut through some of the hype out there right now. It was great to hear the fact that Ocean Gate was so much more than a tourist trip. Not to mention the info. you shared on radar and sonar. Thanks for the effort you make to give us a more balanced point of view in this media hyped world
James Cameron doesn't run a tourist business taking people to the titanic. He has plenty of money so I doubt anyone anywhere has enough money to make him their servant.
i think this is one of the best videos out there going into depth of the whole situation and how it led up to the implosion of the titan unlike most YT videos that have been coming out (mainly from news stations who repeat themselves about the same thing). i really enjoy being able to see visuals and map layout of the titan to get a better understanding of how titan was built and what materials were used. it still makes me feel guilty knowing what happened to all the 5 victims and how this could have been easily prevented... if there was more trial and errors before getting to the final product... if we only had waited a little longer to be able to successfully visit the ocean like that.. nobody would've died
It's what it is. The implosion could have happened at it's 6th dive, 5th dive, 4th dive. All of them before where just extremely lucky. The front plexiglass window for example was rated for only, 400m deep. They went in 3500m. Thats almost 10x more then it was rated for. Also the hull and the way it was designed - there's experts claiming they would never go that approach. The ship had on paper a depth of over 12000ft - while it was never certified for it.
@@vanderlinde4you "The front plexiglass window for example was rated for only, 400m deep. They went in 3500m. Thats almost 10x more then it was rated for." These 'facts' seem to change every time! According to the court documents, the viewport was rated for 1300m and the Titanic is at 3800m. Being a cost-conscious company, OceanGate did not want to pay for a viewport rated to 4000m.
@@TassieLorenzo The chances are likely the viewport rated at up to 1300m might have bin the cause. They where expected to be at 3200m of depth. Still way beyond twice the rated capacity it was designed for. I
This was VERY well done and very respectful. Thank you! This means a lot to those of us who are, indeed, trying to cut through all of the “noise,” and get fact based information that isn’t presented in a “sensational” way.
@juliettedemaso7588 I am referring ONLY to the respectful way in which this TH-cam video was presented. I believe you have misunderstood the comment I made.
If there's one thing we learn watching channels like this, it's that the ocean is unmerciful to those who don't respect her or know their trade. It's often enough unmerciful even to those who do.
I saw a comment on a video, idk if it's a quote but it was something along the lines of "the ocean is aggressively indifferent to whether you live or die" and I thought that was well said. If anyone knows the quote I'd love to learn more about it!
@@ald1144 whoa 😮. About 3h driving from Nagasaki is a memorial to a village that was taken by a mudslide. Really eerie to walk there and see the occasional roof peek out of the mud. It's insane.
Interesting explanation of the methods used. I spent 23 years in the US Navy, many of those with the ASW Community and spent many hours flying in the Great P-3 Orion. The P-3C can find you underwater using a number of methods, not the least of which are sonobouy’s and the MAD Boom (Magnetic Anomaly Detection). I was friends with many of the Technicians who operated this equipment, and believe me they are a talented group. Just ask any Soviet Navy Submarine Skipper who was chased by them. 😊Enjoyed your presentation, thanks!
I feel awful for all of them (the CEO not as much since it’s largely his fault) but I feel especially bad for the 19 year old. He didn’t want to go but wanted to do something cool with his dad for Father’s Day 💔 he had his whole life to live and now it’s just all gone.
It is strange you feel so many different ways about people who you didn't know... 5 people died, and I feel equally upset about each one, which isn't much since I didn't know them...
The CEO deserves the blame mostly but he did not intend for the vessel he was captaining to fail ,that would be crazy. I feel awful for all involved including the CEO. I hope others can learn lessons from this for future expeditions.
Poor Suleman 😔 I feel so sorry for him and his poor mother, my God I can’t imagine what she is going through right now. Praying for their comfort and eventual peace. It will be a long road.
Why don’t you mention that apparently the viewing port hole was only rated down to 1300m -WAY LESS than the required 4000m depths it was traveling to. You even go so far as to refute that the port hole would be viewed as a weak point. Maybe not usually, but THIS ONE definitely was
@@dons1932I’m pretty sure the insufficient depth rating of the viewport was mentioned in that lawsuit involving a former employee of OceanGate. I think that qualifies it as a well documented FACT.
@@dons1932you mean half truths, OceanGate wasn't doing scientific research, his pro OceanGate slant was wrong given the rest of the submersible community openly warned OceanGate NOT to use Carbon fiber. Please be objective for once and not fanboy on TH-cam.
I’ve been waiting for your take on this tragedy. I can’t help but feel the similarities between Rush knowingly cutting corners and ignoring safety regulations and Captain Smith rushing full steam ahead, ignoring the ice warnings. Both men thought they knew better. Both were wrong. James Cameron was right, now we have 2 wrecks for the same reason. My heart breaks for the loss of those souls, especially the 19 year old kid. I’m glad it was quick, and they weren’t stranded waiting for the O2 to run out. May they Rest In Peace.
Yeah. As much as the loss of Paul-Henri Nargeolet hurts. He had a long and successful life. Same can't be said for the 19 year old who still had his whole life ahead of him. Certifications and standards exist to stop (or at least reduce the chance of) this happening. Unfortunately the history of the company shows this was a tragedy in the making.
Thank you Mike for a thorough and thoughtful explanation of the events and the technologies used. A very tasteful presentation of events surrounding this tragedy.
I will note something on the SOUSUS Net track from the Titan Implosion, the big reason it was kept in house until confirmation that the vessel was lost is that they weren't sure the sound actually was the Titan imploding, as identifying sounds from under water can be quite difficult, as noted, so the thought was that it could of been some other underwater activity that happened to sound like an implosion. With hindsight it's easy to see it as a potential wrong choice, but at that point it wasn't even public that the vessel had been lost.
Mike, throughout the week's ordeal I knew that I would be waiting for your comments. Your integrity and knowledge is well respected by your community. Thank you for all you teach and show us !
I really enjoy the channel, but as an engineer, I did not like the way Oceangate was portrayed. A difference in design methodology does not allow folks to cut corners and ignore single point failures. The controller is such a case of a single point failure that had unnecessary additional failure points added in (being wireless). I hope the guy brought spare batteries. Also, from what’s been reported, the company culture was completely off (fail fast, emphasis on new college hires, removal of folks that raised safety concerns). Sorry oceanliner designs, but you missed the mark on this one.
The attrition towards migrants has significantly subsided possibly because it is frequent. At the beginning, there was a lot more concern. The Titan was more spectacular because "new". Remember the Apollo missions? after the first moon landing, TV channels stopped covering live transmissions, unless drama took place like for Apollo XIII.
The clearly overloaded vessel full of illegal economic migrants is one of many cases. Human traffickers lie to uneducated customers that mostly barely can read that they will get a job and a house from one of the tax financed welfare states. The best option against this, is creating legal, hardened ports of entry. An very public re-migration of illegals to their last destination to discourage use of these human traffickers. Another option is to significantly reduce social security payments for certain origins and limit them to vouchers that they can't send home. Or outlaw services like western union.
@@kingdavewoody it makes a lot of sense that people were more interested in 5 people than hundreds of them, don't you think that was probably the media more interesting or even forced to speak about the millionaires killing themselves in the worst decision they ever made? I didn't even know about Greece's news, not a clue in the UK, in the other side the 5 HEROES were all over even with the telly off
I greatly admire your restraint and choice to wait before posting a video of the events surrounding the Titan submersible. I have thoroughly enjoyed this channel and the intelligence and dignity brought to these subjects. When the submersible was first announced as being lost last Sunday, the authority I wanted to hear from on this subject was this channel, but I also knew that speculation was not going to be helpful, so thank you so much for the brave choice to wait before significant facts were in, and in sharing the information about the technical details of both the submersible and the technology used in the search.
From what I've been reading, the coast guard did not hear the implosion in real-time but instead were given information that the sub went missing, may have imploded, and were directed to listen through their recordings and see if there was anything.
i think it was the navy that was peeping their communications, noticed the comms went down, and reported to the coast guard. that’s my understanding of it at least.
James Cameron said the Titan disaster is similar to the Titanic disaster and the captain ignored safety warnings. This means that both disasters could have been prevented
@@highlander723 He already had a lot of money from making terminator and aliens :-) But he did build a submersible almost on his own and dived to the deepest place on earth, so I guess he knows what he is talking about. He seems to be an honest guy and what he brought up are all legitimate points.
@@highlander723 he also has actual experience in designing his own submersibles which were clearly safe and didn't risk the lives of anyone but himself
Unfortunately, Oceangate was more concerned with making money & ignore advice, disregard proper procedures, & cut corners with using “off the shelf” parts that were not ever intended to use in the fashion of deep diving. I do not fell sorry for those guys at all. I feel sorry for the 19 yr old, the friends & families of the dead. C’est la vie.
Wish the majority had thought the same with the Warp Speed experimental injection. Disregarding proper procedures, ignoring or censoring advice, concerned with profit over long term studies and risk analysis. Enjoy your boosters!!
I don’t understand why people keep focusing on the “off the shelf” parts. There’s nothing wrong with that and in most cases it makes total sense to use off the shelf when appropriate or beneficial. They weren’t cutting corners by using off the shelf. There’s no need to design and engineer a super complicated mouse trap when the tried and tested basic mouse trap works perfectly. As mentioned in this very video the US Navy now uses off the shelf game controllers to control their new submarines. Game controllers are used for a lot of military applications.
@@cruisinguy6024Agreed, The gaming controller is absolutely fine, Its literally no different than a Joystick in most heavy machinery.. It probably shouldn't have been wireless but still, Completely acceptable imo.. Same goes for the lights from the Camper Rental.. Completely fine.. Now the Carbon Fiber Hull on the other hand was not, It is definitely what caused the implosion.. A dozen dives and was never properly inspected or replaced with new Carbon Fiber.
An excellent, well-balanced, and very informative report Mike! Thanks for your hard work on this! And thanks for maintaining the old tradition of wearing a black tie as a sign of mourning. I was beginning to think I was the only one who did that anymore. A very classy and heart-felt thing to do. Well done indeed.
I was honestly waiting for your video on this, Mike. I didn't want to watch any of the videos flooding TH-cam about this--seriously just wanted your solemn and informed take, and you have not failed to deliver. Thank you for your work
Omg I've been obsessed with your channel for a few weeks now and then THIS happens. I was really hoping we'd get a video from you on the situation. You're probably one of my favorite creators now!
A couple of potentially key aspects that weren't mentioned in this video:
A - The viewport was only rated for EDIT: 1300m. That's 1/3 of the depth to the Titanic. That was a flagrant, known danger point. Russian roulette on every dive with a negative safety margin.
B - The engineering spec for the carbon fiber thickness was 7". They built it to 5".
C - Preface: I used to work at Boeing on the 787 program, both post-cure and pre-cure. The 787 is mostly made of carbon fiber. Pre-cure was basically a low-level clean room. Not an open warehouse where people were at working areas with loafers and polo shirts. Every single large co-cured part underwent ultrasonic inspection and any defects fixed, and checked again for verification. The submersible did not get any testing for voids, inclusions, nor delamination after it was built. Any small one of those SIGNIFICANTLY weakens a co-cured composite structure by a significant amount.
For them claiming to be primarily interested in scientific pursuits, they intentionally disregarded science, engineering, and safety standards, then claimed they got in the way of innovation. I'm fine with innovation, but when innovating, you put no lives or only put your life on the line...... not putting several uninformed lives on the line. In my opinion, the passenger's deaths are akin to homicide. Rules were intentionally disregarded, then lives knowingly put in significant danger.
Edit: I'm in no way meaning to imply the video missed points intentionally. The stream of information about the disaster comes and goes, and I'm certain there was no ill intent, intentional misinformation, nor deliberate skipping of information.
This should be a pinned comment. Great work. I have found this channel so fascinating but this video is just... Weirdly off. These are awesome facts!
I agree wholeheartedly. Good work on the lovely 787.
C - completely agree
A & B - I've read the same, but is there a reliable source for these?
@@TimInertiaticMany people in the deep sea diving community wrote to him saying it was a bad idea and thats all documented. Also the one whistleblower that worked there years ago.
@@TimInertiatic I know the window rating came up in the 2018 lawsuit involving David Lochridge and the company. He allegded in his lawsuit that he was fired when he raised concerns about the safety of Titan, including the window pressure rating.
I read aobut it on CNN, but that will also give you the name to google to find your own sources if you want to cross check
James Cameron was basically right. Cut corners. Ignored warnings. Needless catastrophe waiting to happen….
Right next to the Titanic. Like modern day Shakespeare.
It's learning event. Too much caution can be very unproductive.
@@JoeLinux2000yeah the CEO said something similar and it didn't work out to great for him.
I would suggest safety is the absolute priority because accidents set back innovation because of lack of trust.
Look what challenger disaster did to NASA.
Loss of investors, loss of public trust.
This will slow down deep sea exploration severely, much more so than ensuring your engineering is absolutely perfect and properly testing materials before using your design for tourism purposes.
@@jamesharrison2763why do that when you can Warp Speed an experiment into half the globe for profit? Without any long term risk studies.
Oh wait sorry I thought you were talking about the mRNA jab.
Boost away!!!!
😏💉💵💉💵💉💵💉💵
@@JoeLinux2000 The catastrophic results due to failing to implement basic safety features found on just about any submersible craft since WW2 is significantly more unproductive than "too much" caution.
James Cameron doesn't do what James Cameron does for James Cameron. James Cameron does what James Cameron does because James Cameron is James Cameron.
Can’t speak for the weapons system aboard USS Colorado, but as a former submariner, there is a very big difference between the Titan being completely controlled by a game controller, and a game controller literally only controlling the periscope. Not to mention that the control surfaces (at least on board a 688i) have several redundancies and other places they can be controlled even if the ships control panel is damaged.
I think his point was simply that something of this level even exists and is used in a professional/serious environment. People are getting hung up on JUST the fact that it's a Logitech controller that can be used for gaming so as to imply that no simplistic input or output devices are used outside of your children's toys in a home.
@@Shift4g the real point about the logitech controller for me was that it's a cheap wireless controller that's known for being unreliable. That's why people are hung up on it.
@@Shift4g Mike was trying to defend Rush's use of a single wireless controller to control everything. But he used a fallacy to defend Rush's choice. It is a fallacy that submarine's use a similar set-up to control the subs operations. Sadly, in his zeal to defend Rush, Mike didn't bother to research this...if he had, he would have soon learned how wrong he was in thinking the military was doing what Rush did.
@@gailmcn no he's more just making a comparison that they are used for similar applications and that the idea is not completely out of the blue
@@Shift4g it's not about its simplicity but about the points of failure that are very different from what would be desired for mission critical operations in such an environment.
Funny how oceangate's stated goal was for science, yet they ignored every piece of scientific and engineering advice from everyone more qualified than rush
Lets be honest, if all of science was ignored, nobody would have even heard of this company or Rush because he would have died on dive 1. While he made colossally poor decisions and had an unattractive personality, he was not an idiot.
@@Shift4g just because it didn't fail on the first dive doesn't mean it wasn't an incredibly stupid design. A fatal flaw doesn't become any less of a fatal flaw because it doesn't immediately cause a failure.
@@smileyeagle1021 I agree that it was an incredibly stupid design...to keep using after the first dive. Making it to that depth and back more than once is not some trivial thing. There was sound science at play, just not enough to continue.
I still stand by the logic that a design that flat out doesn't work won't accidentally work a few times if the former is true. The peer argument wasn't that it was a design that would eventually fail, it was that it was so backwards it couldn't work in actual application.
@@Shift4g He was certainly a better salesman than he was a deepsea submersible developer......oh wait, he didn't have any professional training in deep sea marine engineering, did he? just aerodynamic engineering and aviation, which deals with a diametrically opposite environment!
@@mrnice111just more people have common sense. 👋
At the end of the day, it appears this incident was caused by no small amount of hubris and carelessness by OceanGate. Untested construction techniques, ignoring safety regulations and dismissing safety concerns.
Simplicity and "risk taking" is something for consumer technology, not when human lives are at risk when visiting one of the most extreme environments on Earth.
Sad that a company who was responsible for keeping their passengers safe had zero care for safety
No small amount of irony that the unsinkable ship was visited by the unsinkable submersible and both were lost because of known hazards that could have been avoided but for lack of common sense
This thing is made out of "Scissors, paper, and string"! ...so to speak. Ghastly. I also read a quote, from the CEO, - Rush, a direct quote by him....that he admitted that he was told by engineers, to NEVER go below a level of around 11,000 feet, in this thing, EVER.
well thats them out of business does make you wonder how they got to that point. Never even knew they were doing paid visits, and I would say I have a good interest in the subject!!!
"Darwinism" the gift that keeps on taking.
The only open question I have about Titan is where the incompetence stopped and the willful negligence began.
The court will decide that when the company is rightly destroyed by the law suits that are coming.
When Rush fired and sued his experienced submariner pilot who refused to sign off on its safety and blew the whistle. Rush lied about Boeing, NASA and UofW being in partnership with Oceangate. That was in 2018. Start there with gross, purposeful, deliberate negligence.
I’d say 20/80 on the Incompetence/Willful Negligence. Considering one of Stockton’s key quotes was “you’re only remembered for the rules you break,” he was clearly ignoring what the people who knew better than him told him not to do and did it anyways
@@Jenalgo honey, that money is gone, even if won lawsuits, they won't get a dime, there is no money and if there was, the second the company knew that this was probably a death situation those moneys probably disappeared out of the corp. accounts and will be hard pressed to get lawsuits as they all signed waivers.
@@nunya2954no waiver can excuse a company from wilful negligence. You can certify that you accept inherent risks in a dangerous activity, but not give someone blanket coverage for throwing your life away irresponsibly.
Great video! I gotta add, I was one of the CP-140 pilots, I flew the search over the 96th hour and was leaving the scene as the wreckage was discovered.
As an ASW aircraft, acoustics is our bread and butter. We know the difference between biological, background noise, surface vessels, and subsurface sounds. The entire time the “banging” we heard was unlike anything we’ve heard before. It was to a cadence and we located it to a very small area of probability on the sea floor. It seemed to respond when we dropped Mk84 eSUS, or used active to Ping as a mode of communication. This is why we believed they were alive.
As more ships arrived on scene, background noise drowned out the banging we heard, but we could still hear it on occasion and easily differentiate noises.
The area we triangulated the banging to come from, in part using the echos through a passive sono grid and strategically positioning surface vessels to block certain echos, is where the wreckage was found. At the moment, we don’t know what the banging was, but could have been wreckage tumbling in the strong currents or small implosions from life support equipment as it settled. It’s a tragic ending and all assets on scene really gave it their all.
Thanks for making a great video that lays it out nicely.
Could it have been possible that they didn't implode when they lost power but were instead still alive and banging on the hull for a few days? And then them banging on the hull caused it to crack and then implode?
I'm just wondering how the banging fits into all this. I can't find a source, but other comments have said the emergency ballast was released, meaning they were on their way back up. So I'm wondering if they realized they were lost, tried to ascend, started banging, and the hull cracked as a result of the banging.
@@Lissbirds it’s very difficult to speculate, but the US Navy underwater hydrophone picking up the implosion sound around the same time the sub went quiet, sounds like it was all within rapid succession.
The automated “ping” the sub had every 15 minutes was an isolated, separate system. So for that to go quiet at the same time as the implosion sound, doesn’t sound like there was any actual human banging.
I will say, aircrew had that theory as well, of knocking which compromised the hull, but we don’t believe that any longer.
We are still very puzzled by the banging though and hope for answers.
As for the release of their emergency weights, we still have to wait for the exact sequence of events to be reported, but we did hear the mothership received a short text they were in an ascent briefly.
Thank you very much for sharing not only information but great insights into the work that was done. Great work.
Thank you for your info and most of all thank you for serving. 🇺🇲
@@Pilot_405Thank you for your contribution to both your aid in the search, as well as, your information. Intriguing to hear your perspective and thoughts.
My father was a sonar tech in the navy during the Cold War and he used to tell me that the things he’d hear in the ocean would probably freak a lot of people out. Really freaky stuff down there.
Podes contar un poco mas de eso? Suena interesante!
Yeah like USS Thresher and USS Scorpion, two nuclear subs near the Titanic that imploded. Ironically, Bob Ballard was hired to explore these wrecks and was allowed to search for the Titanic on his downtime. He found it, and 35 years later it would attract Stockton Rush and his sub would implode too
Such as.......?
@@thebeaz1 Whale sex
Not downtime exactly. He went to the navy to get funding for his equipment that he wanted to use on Titanic. But the Navy wanted him to use it to search for the USS Thresher and Scorpion. Ballard agreed but on the condition that he be allowed to search for Titanic if there was time after exploring the lost submarines.
It's commendable you defended the OceanGate project, both its design, and its reason for existence - science. But I'd dispute that, as a scientist who has been professionally involved in studying and mapping the seabed, and I've made digital photogrammetric 3-D imagery. There isn't any science that this submerisible could do that couldn't be done as well, or better, by remote vehicles mapping the Titanic in detail. Which has already been done and which you pointed out. In fact the Titanic has now been mapped in incredible detail.
Taking with them a man and his young son, both of whom had no scientific background, or reason to be there (apart from sightseeing) does not suggest any genuine science. Ok perhaps we could justify their presence by saying the company needed paying customers (with a high ticket price) to fund the project. But if doing genuine science, skip the need to make the vessel big enough for fee-paying passengers, and just build a smaller one (to take only genuine scientists), made from titanium as a sphere - as you showed in your excellent breakdown of Alvin.
Finally, if this was all about science, why did Stockton Rush do the exact opposite of that? i.e. ignored the science that showed what materials you could and couldn't build with, ignored the necessary certification (which all genuine scientists would adhere to), and ignored what other experienced experts were telling him.
It smacks at best of massive overconfidence in his own abilities, at worst of extreme arrogance.
This video was pure apologism, threw me off.
I understand his approach and being respectful but you can't just glance over everything that's public knowledge now
He's sticking up for these fools because he wants to stay in good standing with the folks involved in this stuff. He's become a tool, and that's obvious.
@@rareblues78daddy Oh good grief. He's not "become a tool". He's just presenting from his point of view. He seems sympathetic because one of the individuals on board was a personal hero of his. I don't feel that he was being an apologist. There's no need to insult him when he always has great videos, some of the better ones on this hellscape that is called You Tube.
I mean, who are you calling "fools"? The owner, the dude with his 19 year old son, the scientist? Some of them were just sightseers. The owner may have been arrogant but he paid with his life just like the rest. I'm sure he felt it was safe, or convinced himself it was. I think anyone who feels the need to do these risky things is kind of silly (I don't want to call them fools), but that's just me.
Agreed. Weird take defending these people. Seriously, even though it became a meme, using a consumer device to steer the vehicle is beyond insane.
@@AdminAbusefacts. I think any scientist / engineer watching this would say exactly what you both did
EDIT JUNE 26: Hijacking this top comment to answer to claims that I am being an OceanGate "apologist". I'm sorry if my intention wasn't clear on this video; I am in no way affiliated with the organisation nor commenting on whether it was right or wrong to use this submersible. I only mentioned OceanGate's MISSION STATEMENT and pointing out that, at their core, OceanGate is an organisation with a scientific purpose with many operations not just related to Titanic dives. For Titanic specifically their science missions did the following;
- Film Titanic in high definition from many angles to track deterioration and try to capture, on camera and in high definition, undersea organisms
- Take water samples and use DNA analysis to identify organisms and try to match this with the footage taken from that specific dive
Whether this is correct scientific method is beyond me; I just wanted to point out that OceanGate, the entire company, is not a sightseeing organisation as a whole based the above information.
What is clear is that their business model then relied on public backers to keep these missions going and that those backers were given the opportunity to join the dives as assistants. Whether this is a pure "tourist" operation is open to interpretation by the viewer - I think it is a part of the business model but not the entire thing.
I have not made any comment on whether the methodology or design doctrine was right or wrong - I have merely outlined what that design doctrine was.
A CORRECTION: In referring to Titan’s wall thickness I mentioned 7” when I actually meant to say 5”, 127mm. Apologies for this misspeak!
ANOTHER CORRECTION: Some of you have pointed out that my De Havilland Comet metaphor is based on outdated information. Thanks for this and I will read more into it, but suffice it to say the original point still stands - that a spherical structure or a round structure does a better job at distributing stresses evenly throughout the structure.
My prayers condolences go out to them, their families, their friends, loved ones. 😢@Oceanliner Designs thanks for the video very informative.
@@ViperGamingsfr
What a fantastic channel! I subscribed today : )
@@ViperGamingsWhy, do you think that prayer is functional ?
@OceanlinerDesigns, at the beginning of the video you say creating a vessel like Titan is not about tourism but about research & exploration. But then many have said there is no need for humans to do this anymore since ROVs can do a better job and more safely.
Also if not for the aim of facilitating tourists, the design compromises would not have been made.
I was on a submarine for a few years and this is one of the craziest stories I’ve ever heard. He was basically submerging an RV. Absolutely bonkers.
what's an RV?
@@matildafaltyn6253recreational vehicle
@@matildafaltyn6253 from online Smithsonian Magazine August 24, 2010 Commemorating 100 Years of the RV
For almost as long as there have been automobiles, recreational vehicles have been traversing America
"The recreational vehicle turns 100 years old this year. According to the Recreational Vehicle Industry Association, about 8.2 million households now own RVs. They travel for 26 days and an average of 4,500 miles annually, according to a 2005 University of Michigan study. The institute estimates about 450,000 of them are full-time RVers ".
@@toomanyaccounts 9
Beyond Bonkers , I think he was on a suicide mission for glory ..Maybe..😮💨
Very informative video, Mike. Although Ocean Gate existed supposedly for science, Rush was still criminally negligent in many areas involving the Titan. He, obviously, had faith in his design but had definitely not reached the point where the Titan had been confirmed safe for others to join the dives.
They knew this when they signed up, so I don't see the problem. Their choice, their problem, they knew the risk. Simple as
@AverageAlien no; I do not believe ALL of them knew ALL the corners Stockton cut. If he were alive; guaranteed he'd be charged. He mislead everyone
@@AverageAlienthey didn’t know fully. At least most of them didn’t you can’t expect a laymen to understand the risks of a new technology. Stockton was a great face man. He made reassurances. There are several known instances of people backing out because they didn’t like the engineering and Stockton trying to fly to them and convince them to do it. I’m sure that most people who signed the waver didn’t have full understand of the true danger. In fact I watched an interview with a guy that had nothing but great things to say about his experience on his oceangate titanic dive. But he did say that if he had any idea of the true risk due to shoddy engineering he would not have gone. Also the who notion that the victims brought this on themselves is a very gross mentality. They’re still people with families and their deaths are tragic.
@jonathanfairchild lol if you don't understand the danger of diving to 3000 metres then maybe that's just natural selection calling.
@@AverageAlienWaivers are null and void if either side engages in relevant criminal activity. Criminal negligence would most certainly kill the waivers.
I'm honestly surprised they found it. Amidst all that wreckage, they were able to locate (at least part of) that tiny submersible. Says a lot for the skill of those involved.
It does, but it also helps that they had a _very specific_ destination for exactly where they were _going._ If you know someone is going to a specific place and back again and they become lost in a manner that would probably preclude them being anywhere else but where they fell, your search area is pretty limited.
in fact they found the parts right around the spot where the vessel would have touched down in a successful dive
no skill in humans, they just lied to you and used military grade soner...(which can track a torpedo sized obfject up to a mile away :-\
@@peabody3000 source?
@@segasys1339 was widely reported in the news. apparently titanic tour subs like to land off the bow so that it's the first part of the ship that comes into view. they don't land too close though as they don't want to risk accidentally touching down on the ship itself
I'm glad James Cameron said what we were all thinking. The irony of the situation is astounding. This didn't need to happen. Those who don't learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.
The name of the submersible being named "Titan" is ironic in itself.
He’s absolutely right about carbon fiber. Totally unsuitable for compression.
Criminal!
What I learned from history is that people do not learn from history.
@@xiaoka you glibly say that as though you were a carbon fibre expert. are you?
@@KarldorisLambley He's not stating it...he's repeating was James Cameron has stated in about a dozen interviews over the last 48 hours, and he's one of the most knowedgeable submersible experterts on the planet. It's apparant that you're just tuning in.
7:45 there's a huge difference between using a wired controller of good quality to operate some specific equipment and using a bluetooth controller infamous for its clumsy performance to operate the entire thing. The philosophy was not "simplicity", it was "let's just cut any possibile corner because I'm smarter than anyone else".
Exactly!
I can't imagine why they thought a Bluetooth connection was the way to go. What on earth was the point?
The controller had absolutely nothing to do with this disaster.
@@jonjones3958 No one knows what went wrong just before the implosion. The controller is just one of many-MANY- bad choices on this submersible.
The controller is fine too as long as you, you know, at least has some more reliable redundancy.
I know that their deaths are said to have been instantaneous and painless, but right before it, the fact that they had the time to try some methods of resurfacing means that they had at least some seconds that they knew that something was wrong... and that's a horrifying feeling to imagine.
It's still better than knowing that something's wrong and then being stuck down there slowly waiting for the oxygen to run out as you feel the pressure of the water on your torso. I'll take an istantaneous painless death over that anytime.
@@oddda5956 definitely!
Pure speculation, the first indication of an issue may have been a sound similar to a small rock hitting our auto’s windshield. The ramifications would have been apparent to all.
The indications of resurfacing most likely were nothing but false signals sent as the computer link failed. The sub was destroyed, power was lost, and the indicators defaulted/the emergency release activated (there was, I think, something like that) or an emergency system activated anyway, sending enough of a signal to register before the whole thing fell silent.
@@Svensk7119 the undercarriage was separated before the implosion, as far as I understood.
I still can't believe nor comprehend Stockton Rush's UTTER RECKLESSNESS. EVERY SAFETY CONCERN voiced to him he brushed off. He had ZERO BUSINESS being at the depth of 12,500 feet where the Titanic has sat since 1912. If I was going on a sub, I would WANT TO BE with James Cameron or Bob Ballard. Their KNOWLEDGE WOULD KEEP YOU SAFE & ALIVE. This just simply SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. The 19 year old male onboard with his Dad was "Terrified" about the excursion. Such a shame.
I appreciate as always Mike's brilliant presentation, but just from the info that has been publicly available and finally coming more to light, it's already very safe to add that Stockton Rush was beyond reckless and negligent. He was the boss of the operation from top to bottom, and was the only person with the authority to fully question things, an authority which he regularly abdicated. People make a fuss about the game controller, but that was possibly the most reliable component of the whole system, being a widely proven and dependable item. To ferry people to Titanic though, he used a highly unproven experimental and novel construction. The titanium caps were essentially glued with epoxy to the carbon fiber composite hull, and rather than the adhesives being applied in clean room conditions, they were done in an open air building by people in street clothes. Due to their design, the seams formed by the epoxy-joined composite and titanium segments would have been impossible to scan for damage even had Stockton Rush ever wanted to. Moreover, experts in carbon fiber such as advanced bicycle part engineers have fully known for years that carbon fiber composites degrade progressively with use under stress, can fail catastrophically at the worst possible moments, and that even with careful examination may only be known to be at risk only after they have already failed. Every one of the many cracks heard by passengers, as reported on earlier trips, was damage, accruing incrementally over time. Stockton Rush was not going to retire Titan any time soon, could never have detected its growing faults, and reacted bitterly to experts suggesting that he was putting lives in danger. So, Titan's eventual destruction was all but guaranteed. I don't expect any pieces of the composite hull or the bodies to ever be found; the immense pressure and energy of an implosion occurring at hundreds of atmospheres of pressure is hard to comprehend, but it would literally be over in milliseconds, superheating the air inside momentarily and turning the entire hull and its contents into small particles before the unfortunate occupants could even register the collapse. Stockton Rush made claims about NASA, Boeing, and the University of Washington being involved with the sub's engineering, which are now known to be greatly overstated. His victims, yes I say HIS victims, may have been considered crew members rather than tourists, but I struggle to see how a Pakistani billionaire father and his unwilling teenage son, whom he had to heavily coerce to overcome his initial refusal to join him, can be considered anything but unwitting clients, being given so many false assurances after paying hundreds of thousands of dollars.
You are 100% on point. Totally hubristic and negligent. A modern Icarus (of the Ocean). But at least Icarus only took himself out, Rush took 4 other lives with him in his folly. I feel so so terrible for Suleman the teenaged boy. When I heard how they died I cried for hours thinking about him in his final moments, and the pain his mother and sister must be going through. Ugh. Just terrible. May they rest in peace.
Very well-written
People want a video without the bias and noise. Mike provided that. This comment is more of that noise and opinion he mentioned in the introduction.
@@yoowan3437 You are incorrect and probably didn't even read or comprehend my comments. Mike is advising against spreading rumors. I am commenting on things that are known to be factual. With due respect to Mike, he was not yet aware that Titan's hull was glued together with epoxy. Perhaps he was not yet aware that the viewport wasn't rated for anywhere near Titanic's depth. He along with everyone else wants to know what went wrong.
Paragraphs, man, please use your return key!
That having been said, I actually will take issue with the game controller. Not "because it's a game controller," but because:
1. The use of a _wireless_ controller introduces two additional, _unnecessary_ points-of-failure to a mission-critical component, that being power supply and wireless connectivity, when wired controllers work just fine and have neither problem;
2. Did they have a backup? The Navy uses the damn things because they're cheap, ergonomically tested far better than anything they ever could do, and you can send a sailor out with a rented van and a "company" card and return with a hundred of the things new-in-box in an hour and a half. So if the one they're using then breaks, they just toss it in the trash and pull out another one. Did Rush have a spare aboard? Probably not, knowing him.
Thank you. Speaking as a naval architect, this has actually been probably the single best-done video on this accident. You’re clear, concise, and level-headed, and you’re actually knowledgeable about this type of thing.
No he's not - he didn't even bother learning about how they attached the titanium to carbon fiber, and he makes other asinine assumptions which lead to conclusions such as that this was a scientific expedition instead of a commercial venture for rich tourists.
"Actually knowledgeable about this type of thing"...uhh. What?? He has zero experience in engineering and applied sciences. He's just a dumb youtuber who watched the movie Titanic and became a fan boy. Get lost.
Yes, good, even handed explanation.
@@Gubastekhe is. When you listen carefully he says the used this kind of dives to fund other dives which were more scientific.
And why he didn't mention the issue of attachment of titanium to carbon fire? Because that would be speculating from his 🔚.
And who are you to say such things? So far both the guy you’re responding to and the guy who made the video have made their own credentials known. To the outside you look like a commentor who’s arguing baseless information they heard elsewhere with no sources to back it up
Small correction about the comet, it didn't exploded because of the square windows, it didn't had square windows, they were rounded on the corners, the real reason was metal fatigue on the suboptimal aluminum alloy it was used, it wasn't good enough to withstand the pressure on the new altitudes it was supposed to go, also the rivets left microscopic cracks that eventually made the structure to be torn apart, and unlike modern aircraft, instead of tearing apart the skin and keep flying, it just couldn't hold on the structure and the plane broke apart almost instantly.
Also, IIRC, they didn't test the entire hull, but only parts for cyclic fatigue and the number of tests was too small to properly assess the number of cycles the hull could withstand. Which is actually quite close to what happened with Titan.
Turns out that the Nimrod is basically a military version of the Comet with the faults ironed out & was in service for many years after the demise of the commercial version.
Thank you, I came to the comments to add the same correction. The square windows, had they actually been squares, would of course have acted exactly as Mike described.
On top of the airframe, directly over the flight engineer’s station, were two small, square windows. These were used in conjunction with the radio equipment, guaranteeing good signals. They were supposed to be glued-in, but instead they were punch riveted, forming tiny cracks. After so many flights these cracks expanded and grew down the hull to the windows. It was at this point that failure occurred.
Also, the aluminum used in the airframe was the thickness of two pennies.
They took a Comet Aircraft hull, placed it in a tank of water then filled the hull with water to what the pressurised hull would be. They then cycled this to represent take offs and landings. They also recovered a lot of one of the aircraft from the Mediterranean seabed and rebuilt it around a frame in a hanger. The hull that was being pressurised failed unexpectedly and suddenly. A crack emanated from the corner of a window. Airframe fatigue was a new science at the time and a lot of this was unknown. When the Comet 2 was put into operation the windows were small and rounded. The RAF Nimrod was a variation of this aircraft and flew successfully until 2011 and then retired. There were a couple of airframe losses, one over Afghanistan unrelated to the original problem.
Now this is how a video about the Titan incident should be done. Thank you for remaining respectful.
Yeah, I'm sick of people mocking those involved and making jokes when the mortality of 5 people is in question.
100% agree. Best video about the incident I have seen. RIP to the 5 people onboard the Titan 😔
I wanna hear some type of audio from their last moments like the stuff they have when airplanes crash maybe something that will float up to the surface
@@FJBrandonthe difference is that planes have blackboxes by law. These spoiled and reckless "innovators" were too cool for a blackbox or transponder, so we'll never know a lot of things.
@forallthestupidshit3550 how do you make a black box that can survive 6000 pounds per square inch.
What he says here isn’t true is actually exactly true lol. The ppl who paid to go onboard were designated a scientific sounding role but were really passengers. You can see from everything coming out now that this man was surfing on the edge of reason. He wanted to be a pioneer (in his design), and refused regulatory testing due to this, it literally blew into his face. And he has helped prove the reason that regulation and testing exists.
Rules and regulations are written in blood. It's baffling that someone venturing to a hostile environment would ignore the regulations and forgo certification...
There is literally hundreds of times more information within this video then I found in aggregate of all the news sources I read and viewed. I have no idea how you are able to write the script, collect the visuals, and produce the drawings you did, but the effort is nothing short of amazing. Given the speed with which you accomplished it is something I could have expected only from the staff the size of the largest news organizations. But they didn't do it, you did.
A phenomenal achievement!
That's hardly surprising really. Folk who watch Mike have an interest in the maritime events, as does Mike. Opposed to news outlets who cater to the general public, who have no interest in details, and the news outlets have no interest in proving them. It's a sad reflection thou.
The fact that it was know it was to implode on monday and news dragged it out to cover whats happening to the Biden's is actually hilarious. Fake new is real. See what James Cameron knew.
@@_5_675 So enlighten us!
@@_5_675 GLUED ON? WITH WHAT, SUPER GLUE? Only asking because something clearly did not hold.
The window bothered me too. I know zip about underwater craft, but anyone should know the porthole glass should have been rated for 13000 ft, not 1300 ft.
@@knitwit7082There’s video a few years old online showing how Titan was constructed, where you can see how an adhesive was applied to attach the end caps to the carbon fibre cylinder. I don’t believe the specific type of adhesive glue has been mentioned yet.
that sonar sound made my cat SO UPSET. jumped off the couch and has been looking around in confusion with wide eyes for the past 5 minutes.... never seen him react like that to any noise lmao
The Titan was built by people who thought they knew better, Lost by people who thought they knew better, and found by people who knew better.
Well said
By far the best comment to date.
Well said Jack, well said.
The entire situation is very unfortunate, but sometimes ignorance and catastrophic losses are what it takes to make the future safer for everyone.
Don't forget, the people who knew better were repeatedly ignored, and even fired, by the people who thought they knew better.
Yes! Thank you, that was very well said in the most simple and "easy-to-understand" way possible!
Technical info is good here. It’s just odd to be so deferential to OceanGate and Rush’s intentions. There are now public records that demonstrate the gaping negligence of this company at nearly every level. Whatever “scientific” goals this company had, their broader aim was to sell this uncertified technology to other companies, and they were using unwitting civilians whom they got to sign waivers without even knowing about the actual risks that real experts had made clear. If there were a buyer, they would have happily sold this technology to other companies also willing to cut corners and put their workers at risk. At least now the chances of that happening are next to zero. Just unfortunate that people had to pay that price with their lives.
That still remains to be seen imo. As i understand it, oceangate has closed and started liquidating it's assets which would include its sub tech. Lets hope this unsafe tech doesn't claim any more lives. Buyer beware, the ocean isn't a safe place if your craft essentially consists of a carbonfiber toilet paper tube with 2 titanium domes j.b. welded to the ends.
what do u expect this guy is a titanic fanboy, his entire channel is dedicated to ocean liners like the titanic. he wanted to one day visit the real titanic himself for sure, and now his dream is crushed because titanic tourism is dead
I agree! Since I first watched this video I have the feeling he’s either being paid or is still charmed from the photos and videos Oceangate took
@@emikomina That's a rather harsh thing to say.
This, admittedly, is my first time looking at this channels content, and he didn't come accross as a 'Fanboy' at all.
I heard specific, seemingly factual, information about what we know up to this point in regard to what happened.
The information about OceanGate itself was simply the information that OceanGate themselves had filed.
If a company files paperwork stating that their primary goal is A, and that B may occur to gather funds. Then reporting that that is what they had filed is factual.
Regardless of whether or not this person has an interest, in one day being a deep sea tourist, has no bearing on the information they have provided.
I didn't hear him saying that mistakes were not made, he only provided information, and specifically stated that it was too early to place blame.
I found this quite informational, and it helped educate me on things about the tradgedy that I wasn't completely read up on.
And, from what I can see, THAT was the entire point of this video.
This dude is definitely biased lol
As a complete layman it seems to me the acoustic warning system that drops the weights if the pressure vessel makes telltale noises of impending breakup was worthless because once you hear those noises you have seconds to react, and the ship can't change its depth significantly in seconds. It took hours for it to free fall to the target depth of ~12000 feet. Lets say the cracking noises happened at 10000 feet, they took action and dropped the weights, but then the momentum of the ship still continued downward for a second, then slowed to a stop, then reversed to begin accelerating upward, and all that action took say 5 to 10 seconds before the ship attained any significant upward speed. It may have managed to reduce its depth by a couple hundred feet before BOOM, it imploded at say 9800 feet, which was not enough pressure reduction in time to save them. Like the Titanic was unable to make enough course correction in the time it had to react to the sighting of the iceberg.
If Titanic has carried on instead of turning it probably wouldnt have been so catastrophic.
@@isleofthanet Yes, I have read that assessment by experts decades ago, that if Titanic had rammed the iceberg head on then it would not have breached as many watertight compartments and would have not sunk, or at least would have stayed afloat a lot longer and would have still been afloat when help arrived.
The trade off would have been that potentially hundreds of people in the front of the ship would have died in the impact of such a collision, and the officer commanding the ship would have to answer for that.
There was no way the commanding officer with seconds to react would order the ship to ram the iceberg, sacrificing the lives of some to save the rest of those on the ship. There just was no realistic opportunity to consider options like that in the seconds of time allowed to react. There was also no time to consider ship engineering outcomes of say 3 compartments breached vs 5 compartments breached, etc. It was all or nothing, he had to try to steer around the iceberg.
@@onemoremisfit considering the passengers were not wearing seat belts, that would have been just as catastrophic..
@@onemoremisfit The main point is: We know all these things about the accident because hundreds if not thousands of scientists researched every little detail for more than a century.
From the comfort of our arm chairs it's very easy to say they should have done this or they should have done that.
If there is one thing they should have done differently - going into a known iceberg area with a vessel this big at 22 knots at calm sea state and therefore hardly detectable icebergs seems to be the second best idea.
@@onemoremisfit Only realistic way the Titanic would have hit the iceberg head on would be if the lookouts had taken longer/failed to spot it and there wasn't enough time to turn away.
Unfortunately I don’t think this company made it clear to their passengers that this was a very experimental, unproven sub. I read their brochure about the Titanic mission for prospective crew members (before it was taken down) and there’s not much in there about how risky it is. Before all of this happened I had watched some of their Titanic videos but had no idea it was such a poorly designed vessel. Thanks for this informative video!
@stephernoodle. so far all the interviewed passengers have verified that Rush made it clear to them that this was an experimental vessel. What he did was make that a 'reason' for why they could ignore that it was an uncertified, unclassified vessel (can't be certified yet, too innovative). He also used it as an emotional hook for his targets, which were of two main types: Prospective paying passengers who were attracted to unusual and risky adventures. Also, prospective discount/sponsored passengers who had huge media/TH-cam followings, who could be depended on to provide free publicity to millions for Oceangate Titan. He did this by connecting 'experimental' with "ahead of the pack", nobody else is doing this, "you'll actually be Crew participating in groundbreaking science", etc. A Supersalesman is what he was, who was basically making a bug appear to be a feature.
He may have informed them that the vessel was experimental, but I highly doubt that he disclosed "all" the problems that the Titan had to "paying/potential" customers ("mission specialists"), and just how cheap and experimental the vehicle really was. Did they fully know and understand all the issues with that submersible, such as thrusters and computer/control systems problems they were having just days prior to Mission V, which he stated, was like "life support"? Were all the problems fully resolved, considering they had to sign waivers? It was his responsibility to fully disclose everything, as they had to sign waivers -- speaking in terms of the paying customers, not the guest, because I believe, PH fully knew what was going on. Honestly, Rush was not a "supersalesman," but an extremely dangerous and delusional man, who double talked (a liar/deceiver). He went on record saying, "safety is pure waste," but apparently, he made those people feel the vessel was safe to some degree. According to a news source, the wife of the Pakistani billionaire reported, SR and his wife flew to London and met with them some months prior to Mission V, where he discussed the mission and reassured them the Titan was safe.
@@dogood1785 I'm commenting based on what Rush is generally known to have done, not what he "should have", or "might have". Of course he wouldn't have disclosed every problem! Apparently you think calling him a Supersalesman is a positive.....it's not. Clearly he sold a lot of otherwise intelligent, successful people on his inept, bad venture. And that's all he was expert at: sales. Not engineering, Deep Sea diving, or even building a successful company.
If he was a science enthusiast, WHY didn't Dawood not realize that carbon fiber only supports EXPANSION force by stretching, like gas tanks, and is FAR weaker under compression.
It was just stupid to use an open compound structure that can delaminate when water enters the layers under high pressure.
really good info
Thank you👏👏
Great simple explanation, wonder if dagwood knew that ?????
One of the other passengers, Hamish, was extremely experienced in submersible exploration and extreme adventure. Very shocking no questions were asked.
He knew that carbon fibre is weak under compressive loading, everyone knows that. So many experts in the comments by people who don't really understand the facts. Simple pre-dive hull scan ($20,000 but still affordable), thicker hull and we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The Titan which can carry 5, cost $370,00 or about 1% of a metal hulled sub that can only carry two at $37 million.
The idea that this company was primarily interested in the scientific aspects of diving on the Titanic and allowing paying passengers to go along was secondary is ridiculous. This company was in it for the money and cut corners sacrificing the safety issues to improve their bottom line.
What money? It was NOT profitable, they spent a million dollars in diesel fuel just hauling the submersible out there and back, that’s why they charged $250k per person, it was simply to recoup losses.
They shoulda charged $1mil per passenger and actually built a quality product. Or don’t do business
Yes, I might’ve missed something, but…I don’t really see where they contributed any scientific knowledge or research. It’s what they said they wanted to do, sure, and they recorded video footage, yes. But how exactly did that require many millions of dollars from tourists, or any passengers at all? And what did that video footage ultimately provide to our scientific knowledge, besides cool video footage? We’ve known for a long time that the Titanic would decay. And if they were interested in science, why forgo the scientific principles of adequate testing and proven safety methods in building the submarine?
If anyone has refutations to my questions, I welcome them, I know that there’s a lot I don’t know.
You can't possibly know that.
@@thebeaz1We literally can. It’s a fact that is clearly demonstrated by all of the design choices made by Ocean Gate’s leadership, and even more clearly by the results of those choices.
This isn’t complicated: a clout-hungry libertarian wanted fame and wealth, and what he got was infamy and blood on his hands.
Mike, a quick note on how the titanium rings were attached: they were bonded using an epoxy (in layman's terms--they were glued together). It is concerning that this was done in a warehouse (as seen in your video). Any dust or particulates could have gotten in and created a potential source of weakness in the epoxy. In addition to the many other shortcomings of this design, the building practices also fell short. Given the tolerances involved, this step should have been performed in a controlled clean room.
WHAT ON EARTH??? that's one of the worst design decisions I've seen so far about the Titan. horribly negligent doesn't even begin to cover it.
So the joins were made of three different materials (cf, epoxy, titanium)?
Wouldn't at least one of the three behave differently at the various pressures and temperatures the machine experienced?
@@exasperated you have four total materials in this join: titanium, epoxy, and the cf (which is a composite of carbon fiber and another epoxy). You have two epoxies, a non-metallic composite material, and a metal.
@@exasperatedWhen I initially viewed the video of the sub's end cap to carbon fibre tube joining process, I saw the handwriting on the wall.
Critical processes were being done under contaminated conditions, epoxy was applied using a paint brush with no control of the amount or precise location, the physical joining of the elements was done using no stable alignment mechanism (a k.a. the "we got lucky this time" process control system) that leads to momentary canting of the end caps as they are inserted into the tube (causing irregular distribution of the epoxy in the interface area.)
These potentially seriously degraded bonds are then subjected in use to the effect of the greatly differing coefficients of thermal expansion between the carbon fibre tube and the titanium end caps when the sub cools at depth in frigid ocean water.
All of the preceding could have easily contributed to a separation of the thermally shrunken end caps' OD's from the tube ID's, creating stresses at depth that the carbon fibre tube ends could not withstand. Even the smallest crack or delamination in the tube would have led to the total failure of the tube at depth.
The science of what I wrote is sound. It may not have been the cause of the catastrophic failure; but in my gut, I have to believe it almost certainly was.
@@exasperated sarei andato sul sicuro, progetto al di sopra di ogni sospetto, la sfera del Trieste è ancora visitabile, 12 cm di acciaio temperato, ha portato un uomo sul fondo della fossa delle marianne.
The number of people defending the CEO is astounding to me. As I recall he basically went on TV and said “I’m gonna ignore all safety procedures because they stifle development and increase cost and complexity.” Why anyone would defend a guy like this is absolutely beyond me. It’s entirely possible to be innovative while still following basic safety protocols.
Well, at least he didn't let any boring "50-year-old white guys" got in the way of him and death.
Yep, probably people who have a similar ignorant amount of ego to defend
Rush not only has his own blood on his hands but also the blood of every passenger that rode on the Titan. My heart really goes out to the fifteen year old boy that was forced to ride with his father. I’m sure he had a psychic premonition before getting on that boat
@@JonathanSparks-ht4vq I think he was actually 19, but nevertheless, he did not really want to go but was talked into going by his father. Ultimately, he only went because he didn’t want to disappoint his father, but he was uncomfortable with the idea right up to the end.
Because he’s not wrong. The safety measures do increase costs and are why almost all deep sea innovation is done by the US Navy. These safety measure are important, and he never should have ignored them, but another tragedy in this is innovation will now further be limited because they’ve set such a terrible example.
Important note on SOSUS: The data is not listened to in real time. It is recorded and analyzed by computer or manually at a later time. At the time of Titan's destruction, the Navy did NOT know something had happened - it was only upon directed review that they learned about an *anomaly* in the region of the wreck. This is suggestive, but in no manner is it definitive.
I wish the media would make this clearer. I’ve seen so many people already screaming this was some kind of conspiracy by the Navy/Coast Guard to cover it up, lord only knows why they’d do such a thing. It wouldn’t have mattered even if they’d heard it in real time, they had to be sure.
Yes, they reviewed recordings after they learned about missing sub.
I didn't know your channel existed prior to this tragedy. That being being said, i couldn't be more impressed with your knowledge, content, and story storytelling. Keep up the great work!
He makes some of the best content for those of us in the Titanic/ocean liner community. You will learn a lot from him, I've researched all the old steamers since i was a kid, and I still learn more details from him.
@@Jay-gf8tmsame
@Jay-gf8tm was going to type something out but you said it all. Ive fancied myself a boat/ocean liner/naval nerd since i was 8 years old. Mike still teaches me things about things ive researched in the past. For me hes the GOAT of what they call the 'boat people" aka the Titanic community
@@tinypoolmodelshipyard I look at a lot of younger people who seem to be very misguided. It's refreshing to see someone who's young and so concise and knowledge about a subject. Just very impressed.
You could easily spend a couple of weeks just watching (and rewatching) all his videos. Amazing stuff. Titanic: Honor and Glory is also a great channel, but they focus more on interiors and reproductions and the actual Titanic sinking. Oceandesigns is much more wide ranging.
The possibility that they heard or felt the bulkhead failing for seconds or minutes is terrifying. Even if they never knew it happened, they knew it was going to happen.
@TeddyBroakiscariest thing about life unfortunately.
Thinking of that nineteen year old who didn’t even want to be there I hoped fervently that he never knew a thing. But given that they tried to drop ballast…I fear he had time to be afraid.
This is what I didn’t want to hear. I know death is a part of life but I hate the thought of people experiencing fear, terror and helplessness…. 😔
@@SmartStart24don't read about the USS Thresher that submarine was lost during a crash dive test in 1963. An entire submarine crew lost when it sank past crush depth. They probably did not have much time for fear because they were professional submariners and were trying everything they could to regain control of the sub of course they did know that they were in severe danger.
@@marilynsgirl01I know that's what sucks the most he was only there do to pressure from his father to go for Father's Day the kids aunt said he had been having bad dreams about the sub and wasn't scared but absolutely terrified to go I pray he knew peace and nothing of the disaster that was to come..✌🏽
This is the first time ive ever heard a modern sonar ping. I never realized how loud they actually are. Great video Mike, and thank you for covering this subject.
I swear, that thing made me jump out of my chair! It’s like when your smoke detector goes off but has multiple tones and frequencies, dear lord that’s ear piercing!
Also my first time of hearing a modern sonar ping. I had no idea it was so loud. It certainly disturbed my cats! They didn’t like it.
Modern sonar can severely injure divers if it is too close to them. Modern sonar gets recorded all the time by recreational scuba divers in the Bahamas, there are recordings of it on YT.
@@mikoto7693they are much much MUCH louder even than heard here. The ship firing these probably was a couple dozen kilometers away at least + these were already bounced off indirect waves since even 100km away a direct hit would kill you. If you can actually see the ship that's sonaring you.. you're permanently deaf immediately and you'll suffer severe nausea and disorientation.. any closer and the soundpressure will even kill you by rupturing your lungs and blood vessels in your brain.
Sound is measured in decibels which is a logarhytmic function. Means for each 10dB more the sound is 10 times as powerful.
Jet fighters are about 140dB. The most powerful active sonar boasts 230dB. You can do the math from here.
As we say in the mariner community, Safety regulations and procedures are often written in blood. Hope some type of regulation is signed into law so this never happens again.
So true!! The wreck of the Lusitania lies in Irish water and the Irish government has a strong set of regulations to protect the site. I think the Titanic needs such protection by international agreement. The time has come.
@@KiwiSentinel Not really a thing you can do though, its in international waters, no one is allowed to claim it.
The best we got in an agreement the US tried to do that would have the UK, France, Canada, and the US all protecting it, but I dont think France or we in Canada really care enough, the US has money to throw around on useless things like that, we dont.
It is truly tragic that P.H. Nargeolet passed away in this easily avoidable tragedy. He was one of the most prolific explorer's to the titanic, and I wouldn't know nearly as much as I do without his efforts
The greatest tragedy is the death of a 19 year old. At least the other men had lived over half their lives. He had barely begun. Utterly tragic
@nomenclature9607Nargeolet was a titanic expert. He was the head of a Titanic research org. He is on video expressing concern about the design. He may have been tempted to go down to gather info and talked himself into the risk. I still think the 19 year old is the saddest. Life is just beginning.
@nomenclature9607wasn’t a poor choice. They just didn’t test it at all plus things that go through a shit ton of pressure and the a little bit of pressure over and over again get weaker every time. That’s why they retire aircraft’s because instead of just fox them
And use them again
@nomenclature9607 the kid actually didn't want to go, and unlike the others, him and his father weren't explorers or experts. I suspect like Jay Bloom's son, he maybe did research and found the issues, or maybe not....but felt he had to go cos it was Father's day. I feel truly sad for him and his father, they had little idea of what they were getting into cos Stockton was claiming it was safer than driving a car.
I am glad you are covering this. This is the one channel I trust to have the knowledge talk about the events without being sensational or opportunistic.
Having watched this channel for a while, I have sometimes lamented that you spent so much time on Titanic. But I knew why you did. It was a ‘Flagship’ (no pun intended) wreck. As you said, Titanic gets viewers who then learn about a great deal of the science and history of similar vessels and wrecks. My background is Environmental Science and we use ‘Flagship Species’ (official term) to attract attention to ecosystems, biomes and issues. Such as Koala conversation in my part of Eastern Australia to get support for forest management. I am not a Titanic fan, but every video is full of so much information, it is fascinating. And this is why I knew that Oceanliner Designs would offer a clear, well informed overview of what has happened. And I was not disappointed.
it is really baffling how we reached a point where people dont believe mainstream media, because of their nature to rush for sensational news before objective truthful reporting AND we come for objective and matured opinions on specific subjects to platform known for shit quality content full of misinformation
I completely agree with you. I have been talking about this channel and recommending this video before it was even produced.
Likewise.
Was definitely wondering if he was going to say something.
Channel
I didn’t go hiking in Iceland without a locator beacon. The idea that they did this without an EPIRB is crazy to me.
For a company doing “scientific research” as you claim, they didn’t seem to follow any scientific method to design their deathtrap submarine.
Exactly. And if the technology wasn’t perfected, civilians shouldn’t be allowed to buy tourist packages.
Exactly! With the exception of PH, I find it laughable to call them a group of scientists. Sometimes in an attempt to be diplomatic you paint two sides as equally valid viewpoints, and that’s a mistake.
From what I gather the safety compromises weren't *NOT* to cater to the tourism angle, and it's hard to get past the general shoddiness. Could they not have made a smaller and more traditional design that would just accommodate less passengers?
If I were a bored jillionaire with more money than wisdom, I'd probably have bought Rush's snake oil, too... I feel so bad for their loved ones
like what science were they even studying? chemistry? geology? biology? what equipment did they have aboard to conduct the research they were supposedly carrying out?
A lot of the talk around OceanGate and Stockton Rush is pretty damning. His refusal to get third party certification on an experimental submersible AND take tourist on board is simply inexcusable. Stockton Rush has said in interviews he believes certifications would slow down progress and stifle innovation. The real kicker, though, is he claimed all these certifications were overkill because almost all issues experienced in deep sea submersible vehicles were human errors during operation, a fact which only serves to prove how essential and effective these testing methods are. He even refused an ultrasonic hull integrity test to find any imperceptible stress damage to the carbon composite material, which was the likely the cause of this tragedy.
Agreed - yet instead he went with a more expensive, entirely pointless 'safety' system. "He even refused an ultrasonic hull integrity test to find any imperceptible stress damage to the carbon composite material, which was the likely the cause of this tragedy." - even more bafflingly, he installed a sonic/strain-gauge based hull monitoring system to the submersible... which would give essentially zero warning and would only tell you once the damage has already happened. It's like fitting a smoke alarm that can only work once your entire house is on fire. Having it tested like you say would have potentially highlighted issues ahead of time.
Not necessarily. The hull was quite simply too _thin_ for the job. A vehicle can pass every imaginable certification and then catastrophically fail when put to a purpose its design is inadequate for.
Even the legendarily indestructible Toyota Hilux pickup truck, after all, is only used as a vehicle in warfare by the desperate.
Everyone keeps saying the same thing, but it would never be certified, even if it were 100% safe because the technology is new and there are unknowns. Simple as.
@@methylene5None of the technology is new. The only innovations made were methods of cutting corners. And even if this were the case, that would only mean that the technology wasn't ready to be used for this application at all and shouldn't be used. If you were told you were getting into an experimental aircraft and "it's so new that they can't figure out how to safety test it," would you really, logically, decide to get on it?
As always your eloquence in these matters and respect for the lost souls of both maritime incidents shows how much you take the time to think about what you want to say. You're not going straight to words, but you think of the words you want to say. (If that makes sense.) You use your mind and your heart to speak, instead of just rushing out to say whatever just so you can be first to say something. I feel you're first to say something that is both thought provoking and being respectful to the matters at hand. You are definitely top shelf in my book. Have a lovely weekend and thank you for sharing your knowledge and explaining to us this incident.
Spot on. The lad's info and descriptive English is very well thought out. Unlike many TH-camrs, I rather sure that he actually reads over his script and makes amendments etc then reads through it again. Love this Chanel. It has given me a new interest
Except he missed the issue completely people had with the window. It's not that they don't know how pressure makes things seal, it's that it literally was only rated for 1300 m when the craft was going to 4000 m this video comes off as copium because of his love for the titanic. Also, there is a literal engineer's video who works on submersibles who completely makes this cope video sound like what it actually is. Someone coping with something attached to something they love. Hell, he probably even wanted to go on this submersible one day.
@@nerdjournal the fact he claimed this piece of garbage dollar store sub was a scientific study of the titanic and not a tourist operation said it all for me.
The material choice of carbon fibre over a proven metal pressure vessel baffles me. Everything I'm learning about this disaster just makes me wonder how Titan was ever meant to reach the depths of Titanic without risking failure
Probably a combination of hubris and "oh, engineers _always_ build in a huge margin of unnecessary safety so they don't get sued."
The use of a carbon-fiber pressure vessel may not _inherently_ be a fatal objection, but at the bare minimum it needed to be _thicker._ Five inches sounds like a lot, and if you're making an aeroplane to fly up high in the sky, or a racing car or whip around the track at Le Mans, it's insane. At 3,800m of North Atlantic, it's insanely thin.
Because with Titanium it would only fit 1 or 2 passengers. They wanted more. Its a story of a company in red and continuing to lose money cutting corners to try and squeeze a profit.
The Titan cost around $370,000. For a metal hull that can only carry two people, will set you back $37 million. 100 times the cost. The carbon fibre hull should have been thicker, and even at 5" thickness it had completed 13 prior successful trips to the Titanic. It's a no brainer why they were tempted to use carbon fibre.
But it did reach the bottom 13 times before it failed. This is a tragedy, but it is also showed us that carbon fiber CAN withstand the crushing weight of those depths if it’s done right and inspected often.
@@quietcosmos.it didn't reach the bottom 13 times... this was "mission" 5 with a "crew" and the others were test dives and not all of those were successful
I’m a licensed Mariner, (Tankermen on big river boats called towboats pushing barges sometimes longer than 4 American football fields in length), working 28 days a hitch up and down all the main river systems in America, such as the Mississippi River. As a Mariner, I just want to thank you for taking these videos serious and for doing so in a professional manner. I speak on experience when I say our industry, especially working on towboats, is one of the most dangerous and hard working jobs in the work/labor industry. When disaster strikes on the water, it doesn’t just happen lightly, it HITS and when it does, you gotta be on your shit. It can come down to one minor mistake or distraction to determine whether or not you and your and your crew make it back home to your families safe. I’ve been in some serious life or death situations, multiple times. One scenario putting me in therapy and caused mild PTSD that I still deal with. Some nights while at home sleeping, I relive some of the moments in my dreams that are so realistic, I shoot out from under the covers in a panic, as if I’m in an actual emergency. But I love my job and this industry and wouldn’t want to have it any other way.
How can a tow boat be in a life-death situation, can you explain a bit ?
@@dimitristripakis7364I see towboats on the Danube pushing linked up barges with piles of sand etc. I can easily imagine it’s possible to oversee a small boat / Kayak / person on an air mattress (yes ppl do that here) or just you know, the oncoming traffic makes a mistake. These little tug/tow/push boats must have incredibly strong engines.
@@jotcw81 Thanks, that's one. But two, I think he meant about his and his crew's life.
I have PTSD from a career as a public school teacher. I'm not joking.
@@dimitristripakis7364 Hitting submerged objects, running into bridges, the tow breaking lose. Getting cut in half by a tow cable that suddenly snaps. Being knocked overboard. The list is endless.
It's gonna be strange to think that this site will no longer be only the final resting place for over 1500 people that tragically passed away well over a century ago, but also for a small handful of contemporary people that walked the Earth at the same time as us. In times when we think we have pretty much everything regulated and figured out, this serves as a grim reminder that there are always areas in which we can improve.
Excellent, very respectfully presented and very informative video, Mike.
to think of modern people becoming part of the titanic tragedy is horrifying. especially the young lad.
the ignorance that was displayed by the "professionals" is disgusting. loss of 5 lives because of it. tragic. i know nothing of any of these people. but alas, what a horrid way to go.
What I find even more strange and disgusting is that one accident wiped out families and the other a couple of rich tourist that knew what they were getting themselves into. One was all over the news.. the other on page 10.
@@azynkron well, the families should’ve had an idea too, that boat was way overloaded. Sad but true. Tragic also.
18 seconds in. We do have certifications and industry standards that everyone else followed/follows in deep sea and in 60 years of deep dives there hasn't been an accident. This isn't an example of where we need to improve. It was one person who chose not to adopt readily available improvements we have. It was offered to him and suggested to him by former staff and leaders in field but he declined and sent people on a death mission. If someone chooses to drive a car 100 mph on highway and kills 5 people are we to say "This shows there are areas we need to improve". Anyway it's hardly a threat to anyone. 5 deaths in 60 years and of people that chose to risk their life in experimental vessel, we don't need to waste time on regulations. It must be amongst the least common and likely and most preventable ways to die in 21st century.
Thanks for your comprehensive and non inflationary coverage. The weird thing is that I only just recently started watching your other videos about the Titanic before all this happened in the last couple of weeks. Primarily because I was interested in the latest photo recreation.
It has been a very strange week indeed! Thanks for watching!
The algorithm strikes again
Which is probably why after the at least 10 different videos I've watched on the USS Thresher over the last year, they're now showing up even more
@@OceanlinerDesignsOther then the mission statement do you know of anything they discovered or researched that couldn't have been done by unmanned submersibles?
Scientific thing seems more of an excuse as I can't find any discoveries prior to this?
@@OceanlinerDesignsit has indeed! I chose not to watch James Cameron's interview about this because my gut feeling was that it felt attention seeking to say he already knew it was lost. Have you seen it?
@doublelightangel From what I've seen, he did say that he didn't want to speak up because although he had mostly came to the conclusion long before the media found out, he knew it would be a pretty shitty thing to do, taking away the hope that people did have. So he tried to just let the story run it's course, despite already knowing the outcome
I respect your take on this, there is some good info here, like explaining how the power conservation makes sense because of the long descent times, but I also can't help but think (and I do understand why) you have some rose-colored glasses on right now too. There's a lot of information that's come out showing how negligent and deceptive the company was about the construction and operation of the sub.
11:25 In that video of the *actual* carbon fiber being wound, that activity probably should have taken place within a clean room. Because there were people within several inches of the carbon fiber being wound, particles of dust and other debris may have contaminated the carbon mesh, creating points of weakness. Over several dives, these points of weakness or delamination may have grown. Also, microscopic air bubbles in the carbon fabric could have produced a similar effect.
I would go further and say they should have never used carbon fiber in the first place as stated by many experts in the field
Yep. Inclusions that could collapse under pressure would weaken the hull. You are effectively reducing the thickness of the hull at the area where there is an inclusion.
And these failures due to any inclusions will propogate...
@@TimInertiatic Non-uniform material cycling extreme uniform load is basically playing Russian roulette with water pressure.
I may sound like a broken record in this videos comments but this is a really good, unbiased, and accurate video discussing the tragic loss of Titan. Mike, keep on being the voice of the ocean liner community!
I must disagree with you about the controller. It was a wireless controller which is insane. What happens if it runs out of batteries? How many spare batteries did you bring? What if something happens with the wireless connection? Is there a backup system? Is there a hardwired controller in case something goes wrong?
Also fire risk. I wouldn't want to be in a sealed vessel with consumer grade electronics.
It smacks of hubris, aesthetic first safety second & people died 😢
One of my favorite memes is the Xbox Controller suddenly being disconnected
Im by no means trying to defend ocean gate, taking people on expeditions on a experimental sub is ludacris. But in one of there videos they put out on there TH-cam channel they said they had 3 back up controllers, 1 being wired.
@@caseyjones38 I didn't know that. Can you send the link? I can't find that video.
I would like to commemorate you for how professional and respectful you were when talking in this video. I always enjoy your content! ❤
disagree with several of the points made. Especially the analogy that using a controller for the control of a human-manned submersible is equivalent to manipulating a weapons system on which human lives don't rely.
It's crazy to me that after 111 years, the Titanic is still claiming lives, and for largely similar reasons. The hubris and ignorance of safety measures of both the White Star line and Oceangate staff is what led to this tragedy
The staff just did what they were told, the ones who spoke out were fired
White Star didn't have a willfully negligent approach to safety though. They implemented safety measures that were higher than to the required regulatory standard at the time. In the grand scheme of things insufficient, of course - the gold standard of oceangoing safety being William Francis Gibbs, whose vessel Malolo in fact survived the very same type of collision that doomed _Empress of Ireland_ and _Andrea Doria,_ and which - along with _United States_ - would have easily survived the impact that felled _Titanic._
But they were not _negligent._
Stockton Rush, on the other hand, was _openly, and vocally opposed,_ to any kind of safety requirements being imposed on him. That's why the _Titan_ was not only uncertified, it had a waiver that mentioned 'death' like ten times, and tried to bypass liability by classifying paying passengers as "mission specialists."
OceanGate, unlike White Star, was willfully negligent, and they are probably about to be sued out of existence.
The anger I have about this incident, is that the Titan
should NEVER have been uncertified and have “customers” onboard.
Especially when you are going to invite 19 year olds onto your Experiment ☹️
Who cares? The 19 year old was going to grow up too rich to learn empathy. He was going to inherit his father’s earth-destroying chemical industries, and no doubt continue down his father’s path.
They all deserved what was coming to them.
People need to quit infantilizing the guy. 18 and 19y/os die everyday doing less risky things and equally risky activities and jobs that they and others in their lives deem safe.
@@nomorenames7323 I asume your lacking empathy for the needlessly deceased comes from the millions on your bank account? Or are you just a regular wanker on the internet?
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡^^^
Not to forget that you're a legal adult with 19, in just about every single country there is on this planet. Theres no difference in a 19 year old and a 50 year old signing a waiver saying they know of the risk of sudden death.
Respect for including the migrant boat tragedy which has been shamefully seemingly forgotten by the media
The issue I’ve always seen with carbon fiber pressure vessels like in automotive or other industries usually have a shelf life of 5-7 years before they start delaminating. It’s very unusual for them to not have issues and any exposure to sun shortens it’s life. I couldn’t believe they were still using the same sub after so many dives and years.
Lol, my materials science professor keeps touting that as an advantage, "imagine we could build complex machines that are compostable after a few years!".
@@c.w.8200that could make sense if technology or demand was changing rapidly. otherwise durability seems like a key desirable in creating industrial machinery
@@_5_675 a good example I thought of was carbon golf club shafts. They are under extreme forces when it comes to drivers and are used over and over and have gone through years of development. They just start blowing up after a couple years of use. When I played a lot you would see it about every 6 months or so when playing in groups.
I just don’t get how they didn’t see the safety issue
@@c.w.8200 it makes sense in certain industries in that respect when it comes to 3d printing carbon. Reasonably cheap to make and recycle.
@@c.w.8200 I'd say ask that prof if he was willing to bet his life on something that's compostable but you're probably better off just keeping quiet. His mind's made up, don't confuse him with inconvenient scenarios. It could get ugly.
I’m an aerospace engineer and what really bothers me is Stockton Rush’s bragging that he didn’t “follow the rules”. The design and materials were already bad enough, but they didn’t even conduct any NDT (non destructive testing) on the hull. Things like fluorescent particle inspection (FPI) to detect surface defects such as linear indications (small cracks) or CT scanning to detect any internal voids. This is so irresponsible and quite frankly criminal!
Not to mention he said in an interview that he didn’t want to hire subject matter experts who he said were “old white men”, but instead hired based on diversity.
@@chrisr2507I don't think the hiring was driven by 'diversity'. Younger staff are cheaper, and might be more eager to say 'yes'. SR himself was an old white man.
What blew my mind was he stated that any safety checks and approaches that were being taken were those concerning your field, aerospace, and not safety approaches that were typically used in ocean traversal. I was just thinking “but you’re not flying, you’re going into the ocean and should prepare for that”. What sort of logic is that?!
@@wedrivebynight He was a daredevil who thought he could mess with an feature of the earth that has been killing fools and the well prepared alike since man first built ship.
@@chrisr2507 More than half the crew involved in the expedition were white men, just an FYI. This “diversity” narrative doesn’t pan out under scrutiny.
Good to see your somber and straightforward analysis of these recent maritime disasters, Mike.
Former Navy, there's a HUGE difference between the USN controllers and an off-the-shelf version.
The entire time I was following the Titan news I was thinking about Mike Brady’s expertise and the eventual video we may get discussing the event. This video was even sooner and better than I expected. Amazing explanations whilst being sensitive to the victims like you always are.
Thank you!
I think its fair to say this company was funded by an egomaniac who completely ignored experts opinions. "Scientific"doesn't count as a defense if you don't do decent research about acceptable practices. there are many subs that can safely dive. He chose to take unreasonable risks unnecessarily. He was warned, and now an innocent 19 year old tragically lost their life.
Oh he did the research. There’s a video of his stating he flat out did exactly the things that the industry said not to do!
I think this video hit the right tone - he didn't say he felt one thing or the other was true about safety, just presented the facts
The CEO hired people on the basis of "diversity" rather than qualification. His own words a couple years ago saying that he hired a diverse group of people , rather then a bunch of 50 year old "white people." His own words, not mine. Diversity over qualification. Go woke, be dead.
@@JTScott1988exactly, he was setting it up for failure and he knew it. I believe that’s why he was on every dive. He didn’t want to deal with the repercussions when it indeed failed.
Apparently, the community was concerned about this vessel. If exploring Titanic is truly science oriented why not pay certified vessels to take you down. Why add the layer of risk of an “experimental” vessel?
As ever, an intelligently written, well researched and presented video. Well done Mike and any colleagues! My condolences to you and the community for the loss of your friend PH.
Thanks Mike. Another informative presentation. Inadvertently you have also disclosed the how poorly the “regular” media reported this catastrophe.
I am a mechanical engineer that works for a composite pressure vessel manufacturer.. So i have a dog in this race... their testing and design are VERY flawed. No proof? no MEOP? No destructive testing? No cyclic testing? Absolutely insane! Also their boss interface is bad.. Their boss needed to be inter-woven with the composite structure and not just epoxied on and i guarantee they didnt prep that bond surface right with a clean room etching and a water bead test. also they probably didnt do a lap shear bond test on that interface.. It is absolutely insane that ANYONE was enter and submerge in that death trap!
Its terrible. Not one fail safe item like a pinger, or buoyancy device. Everything is a single point of failure and no backups. Really annoying to see such a bad design. And now people are at risk because of it. A horrible situation.
Crazy. They never even used a test vehicle to failure in an experimental setting. Didn’t have the money for it. They also didn’t even lay the carbon fibre in the way that prevents bubbles because it results in carbon fibre waste, which is an expensive material.
It’s crazy the hatch could only be opened from the outside. If they were able to surface but weren’t found they could run out of air.
You probably won't want to open the sub yourself, even if it surfaced, as it would let water in and compromising the vessel. However, a system with a pump, would have been great.
@@rattymenace Or even just a standard EPIRB that they could release when they find themselves in distress...
Everything about it down to the colour. It'd be easier to spot a luminous orange object. But then customers may think "It's painted like a warning sign in case something goes wrong I'm not getting on"
The whole thing was fashion over function. Profit over health and safety. Dishonesty over transparency etc.
If you're taking down first-time passengers, basically untrained, do you really want a panic-stricken person suffering from claustrophobia to be able to open the hatch?
If you're taking down first-time passengers, basically untrained, do you really want a panic-stricken person suffering from claustrophobia to be able to open the hatch?
It was said elsewhere that the submersible’s carbon fiber hull was wound in a warehouse type environment that wasn’t dust-free and was not temperature controlled.
You can see that in the footage on this video. it's got loads of people wandering around with cameras and stuff just watching as it's being wound. They also glued it in the same environment, and placed it together with a winch and a few people eye balling it as it was lowered down.
It was cured at 137° C for 7 days and it was wound properly . Thank you for your.. I heard this from the internet false statements
I do appreciate you trying to be nice, but there's a fine line between kindness and apologism, and imo you crossed it here. Rush's lack of respect for basic safety is on public record, in his own words; it's both undeniable and inexcusable. The people who've died as a result of his behaviour deserve better.
Maybe he will make another video about that when more time has passed. There is no excuse for Stockton Rush though, especially now we know a 19 year old boy did not want to go and is now lost.
Everyone on board that vessel signed a waiver. They knew what they were getting into.
@@lizziewalker7844 I don't know of a single country in the world that doesn't consider a 19 year old a legal adult.
This! I totally agree
I don't think he quite crossed that line, but I would also have appreciated if he acknowledged Rush's recklessness, or discussed how little safety testing was done during Titan's development.
Your channel has a quality, a rigour, a style and a good taste that surpasses many professionals in the news and broadcasting industry.
Thank you very much, Mr. Brady.
That sonar sound was absolutely hideous! It hurt my brain!
Thank you for this video, it explained things very clearly. I wish they’d said from the get-go that it had imploded since they knew it had. To keep the whole world and especially the families of those lost waiting seems very cruel and callous. I had random strangers coming up to me whilst in waiting rooms and queues commenting on how many hours of air they had left. I felt in my heart that it had imploded and never believed it was a rescue but lots of people did.
I've been doing research on the Titanic, as well as ocean explorations and deep sea diving for years and years. I had a feeling from the first, that it had imploded. But none of the people I know would listen, because they wanted to have hope. I gave them that and didn't argue. It's sometimes human nature to try and see the bright side of things.
The biden administration withheld the implosion news so it could keep people focused on that and not his son being charged and the new texts proving without a doubt he is a treasonous corrupt jello brain
@@batshtcrazy5293 Yeah. I was hoping they would be found. But I suspected it had been destroyed. The scenario of running out of oxygen actually scared me, even as an outsider. That's far worse than instant passing that comes with implosion.
Since they knew it had
Did they? If you are referring to the noise the navy heard, they had no idea what they heard until now. Things make sounds in the ocean, you want them to report every single one?
This is actually down to even more irresponsibility by OceanGate. Cameron himself said that the biggest threat to a competently designed submersible visiting the Titanic is not the pressure, but getting entangled. Thus any visit should at least be accompanied by a second craft, usually an ROV. The fact that OceanGate had no ROV is just absurd.
The Navy didn’t want to say they heard an implosion until it was confirmed. This is routine, if any competent organization had been involved they would have had an ROV to confirm the loss in mere hours.
Good video, with a lot of useful information. I want to comment on Carbon Fiber as a material. Carbon Fiber is one of the strongest materials known. It's commonly used in aviation for the pressure hulls and fairings. However, it is a FIBER... a THREAD... When you pull on it, it's incredibly strong. But when you push on it... Well, take a length of dental floss and pull on it. Then push the two ends together. That gives you an idea for how Carbon Fiber works. Make a bottle of carbon fiber and fill it with something and it can withstand massive amounts of internal pressure. However, that same bottle can be crushed with a fraction of that from outside. Using carbon fiber to make a submarine was a very strange decision.
Stockton was an aerospace engineer who forte was making aircraft where carbon fibre is used for pressure hulls as you said. Maybe he just didn’t have enough deep ocean engineering knowledge and didn’t listen to the experts
thank you for dumbing it down
Thank you Mike for giving us a video without conjecture and just being all round respectful to everyone affected by this tragedy. Hopefully lessons can be learned from what happened and the Titan's crew's deaths will not be in vain. It seems kind of surreal that the Titanic wreck is now not only a resting place for people from a century ago, but from folks who would have been among us mere weeks before. May they rest in eternal peace
@repentandbelieveinJesusChrist4we talked about this buddy, some of these people are not ready yet.
Im, not sure that their bodies are resting there, but the craft is
I believe they implode at 3500 feet down, which means the bodies could have easily been carried anywhere by currents.
If I were a bored jillionaire with more money than wisdom, I'd probably have bought Rush's snake oil, too... I feel so bad for their loved ones
The lessons were already learned, the price in lives already paid to find those limits. Stockton Rush wilfully chose to ignore those lessons, and now he and four others are dead as a result.
Oh wow, the video of the sonar with the divers was really cool. Hearing it travel away from them really gives a better understanding of how that works.
This is an exceptional documentary on this submersible! You’re also a natural at narration. Thank you.
If I were a bored jillionaire with more money than wisdom, I'd probably have bought Rush's snake oil, too... I feel so bad for their loved ones
th-cam.com/video/TKLamhyJ6bE/w-d-xo.html
Mike, you are an amazing educator. Your content has fascinated me since I stumbled across your channel, but now, with a tragic but current event, you are sharing your expertise to help us cut through some of the hype out there right now. It was great to hear the fact that Ocean Gate was so much more than a tourist trip. Not to mention the info. you shared on radar and sonar. Thanks for the effort you make to give us a more balanced point of view in this media hyped world
If I had that kind of money for deepside exploration, I would have chosen James Camerons machine and experienced crew.
James Cameron doesn't run a tourist business taking people to the titanic. He has plenty of money so I doubt anyone anywhere has enough money to make him their servant.
@@bradsanders407and it's good that he doesn't.
He's not a clown.
@@obinator9065well the Russian submersibles he had been using were very good.
Mike, as a long-time silent viewer, I have to say I really admire your poise and the amount of respect you have shown towards this tragic event.
i think this is one of the best videos out there going into depth of the whole situation and how it led up to the implosion of the titan unlike most YT videos that have been coming out (mainly from news stations who repeat themselves about the same thing). i really enjoy being able to see visuals and map layout of the titan to get a better understanding of how titan was built and what materials were used. it still makes me feel guilty knowing what happened to all the 5 victims and how this could have been easily prevented... if there was more trial and errors before getting to the final product... if we only had waited a little longer to be able to successfully visit the ocean like that.. nobody would've died
It's what it is. The implosion could have happened at it's 6th dive, 5th dive, 4th dive. All of them before where just extremely lucky. The front plexiglass window for example was rated for only, 400m deep. They went in 3500m. Thats almost 10x more then it was rated for. Also the hull and the way it was designed - there's experts claiming they would never go that approach. The ship had on paper a depth of over 12000ft - while it was never certified for it.
@@vanderlinde4you "The front plexiglass window for example was rated for only, 400m deep. They went in 3500m. Thats almost 10x more then it was rated for." These 'facts' seem to change every time! According to the court documents, the viewport was rated for 1300m and the Titanic is at 3800m. Being a cost-conscious company, OceanGate did not want to pay for a viewport rated to 4000m.
Not sure why you'd feel guilty, unless you had a hand in the company or construction.
@@TassieLorenzo The chances are likely the viewport rated at up to 1300m might have bin the cause. They where expected to be at 3200m of depth. Still way beyond twice the rated capacity it was designed for. I
This was VERY well done and very respectful. Thank you! This means a lot to those of us who are, indeed, trying to cut through all of the “noise,” and get fact based information that isn’t presented in a “sensational” way.
Well done and respectful to who? The dead 19 year old?
Nothing respectful about saying that toy submersible was fine.
Shame the company main guys ignored the facts in their design.
@@juliettedemaso7588 Did he say it was "fine"? Also, stop acting like this was the sub's first dive that deep.
@juliettedemaso7588 I am referring ONLY to the respectful way in which this TH-cam video was presented. I believe you have misunderstood the comment I made.
If there's one thing we learn watching channels like this, it's that the ocean is unmerciful to those who don't respect her or know their trade. It's often enough unmerciful even to those who do.
I saw a comment on a video, idk if it's a quote but it was something along the lines of "the ocean is aggressively indifferent to whether you live or die" and I thought that was well said. If anyone knows the quote I'd love to learn more about it!
Not just the ocean. Nature in general
@@IreneWY Truth. A week ago a poor guy in Arizona was having coffee in front of his cabin and a bear just came and took him.
@@ald1144 whoa 😮.
About 3h driving from Nagasaki is a memorial to a village that was taken by a mudslide. Really eerie to walk there and see the occasional roof peek out of the mud. It's insane.
One of my favorite writers of sea stories, Tristan Jones, said it best:
"The sea doesn't care."
Interesting explanation of the methods used. I spent 23 years in the US Navy, many of those with the ASW Community and spent many hours flying in the Great P-3 Orion. The P-3C can find you underwater using a number of methods, not the least of which are sonobouy’s and the MAD Boom (Magnetic Anomaly Detection). I was friends with many of the Technicians who operated this equipment, and believe me they are a talented group. Just ask any Soviet Navy Submarine Skipper who was chased by them. 😊Enjoyed your presentation, thanks!
I feel awful for all of them (the CEO not as much since it’s largely his fault) but I feel especially bad for the 19 year old. He didn’t want to go but wanted to do something cool with his dad for Father’s Day 💔 he had his whole life to live and now it’s just all gone.
It is strange you feel so many different ways about people who you didn't know...
5 people died, and I feel equally upset about each one, which isn't much since I didn't know them...
The CEO deserves the blame mostly but he did not intend for the vessel he was captaining to fail ,that would be crazy. I feel awful for all involved including the CEO. I hope others can learn lessons from this for future expeditions.
If I were a bored jillionaire with more money than wisdom, I'd probably have bought Rush's snake oil, too... I feel so bad for their loved ones
@@markn866 he was made aware of the risks and chose to ignore them. Pure negligence and he and his company are responsible for the death of 4 others.
Poor Suleman 😔 I feel so sorry for him and his poor mother, my God I can’t imagine what she is going through right now. Praying for their comfort and eventual peace. It will be a long road.
Why don’t you mention that apparently the viewing port hole was only rated down to 1300m -WAY LESS than the required 4000m depths it was traveling to. You even go so far as to refute that the port hole would be viewed as a weak point. Maybe not usually, but THIS ONE definitely was
Perhaps because that comes across as unconfirmed bias, and Mike is all about actual FACTS, which he did perfectly.
@@dons1932I’m pretty sure the insufficient depth rating of the viewport was mentioned in that lawsuit involving a former employee of OceanGate. I think that qualifies it as a well documented FACT.
@@dons1932you mean half truths, OceanGate wasn't doing scientific research, his pro OceanGate slant was wrong given the rest of the submersible community openly warned OceanGate NOT to use Carbon fiber. Please be objective for once and not fanboy on TH-cam.
I’ve been waiting for your take on this tragedy. I can’t help but feel the similarities between Rush knowingly cutting corners and ignoring safety regulations and Captain Smith rushing full steam ahead, ignoring the ice warnings. Both men thought they knew better. Both were wrong. James Cameron was right, now we have 2 wrecks for the same reason. My heart breaks for the loss of those souls, especially the 19 year old kid. I’m glad it was quick, and they weren’t stranded waiting for the O2 to run out. May they Rest In Peace.
he was quoted as saying he broke a lot of rules to make the submersible happen.
Yeah. As much as the loss of Paul-Henri Nargeolet hurts. He had a long and successful life. Same can't be said for the 19 year old who still had his whole life ahead of him.
Certifications and standards exist to stop (or at least reduce the chance of) this happening. Unfortunately the history of the company shows this was a tragedy in the making.
Captain smith thing is a myth tho
Thank you Mike for a thorough and thoughtful explanation of the events and the technologies used. A very tasteful presentation of events surrounding this tragedy.
Thank you Mike, for your respectful and considered words.
Who are you to thank him? Were you on the Polar Prince or something? Bet you wouldn't feel like thanking if you were.
I will note something on the SOUSUS Net track from the Titan Implosion, the big reason it was kept in house until confirmation that the vessel was lost is that they weren't sure the sound actually was the Titan imploding, as identifying sounds from under water can be quite difficult, as noted, so the thought was that it could of been some other underwater activity that happened to sound like an implosion. With hindsight it's easy to see it as a potential wrong choice, but at that point it wasn't even public that the vessel had been lost.
Mike, throughout the week's ordeal I knew that I would be waiting for your comments. Your integrity and knowledge is well respected by your community. Thank you for all you teach and show us !
I really enjoy the channel, but as an engineer, I did not like the way Oceangate was portrayed. A difference in design methodology does not allow folks to cut corners and ignore single point failures. The controller is such a case of a single point failure that had unnecessary additional failure points added in (being wireless). I hope the guy brought spare batteries. Also, from what’s been reported, the company culture was completely off (fail fast, emphasis on new college hires, removal of folks that raised safety concerns). Sorry oceanliner designs, but you missed the mark on this one.
I agree with you totally on this. Great channel but he got this one very wrong. You can't cherry pick scientific consensus.
Thank you for mentioning the story of the boat that capsized off the coast of Greece. Had barely any coverage compared to Titan.
It wasn’t full of billionares. So there’s that.
The attrition towards migrants has significantly subsided possibly because it is frequent. At the beginning, there was a lot more concern. The Titan was more spectacular because "new".
Remember the Apollo missions? after the first moon landing, TV channels stopped covering live transmissions, unless drama took place like for Apollo XIII.
You can't force the public to be more interested in some news stories over others
The clearly overloaded vessel full of illegal economic migrants is one of many cases. Human traffickers lie to uneducated customers that mostly barely can read that they will get a job and a house from one of the tax financed welfare states.
The best option against this, is creating legal, hardened ports of entry. An very public re-migration of illegals to their last destination to discourage use of these human traffickers.
Another option is to significantly reduce social security payments for certain origins and limit them to vouchers that they can't send home. Or outlaw services like western union.
@@kingdavewoody it makes a lot of sense that people were more interested in 5 people than hundreds of them, don't you think that was probably the media more interesting or even forced to speak about the millionaires killing themselves in the worst decision they ever made? I didn't even know about Greece's news, not a clue in the UK, in the other side the 5 HEROES were all over even with the telly off
I greatly admire your restraint and choice to wait before posting a video of the events surrounding the Titan submersible. I have thoroughly enjoyed this channel and the intelligence and dignity brought to these subjects. When the submersible was first announced as being lost last Sunday, the authority I wanted to hear from on this subject was this channel, but I also knew that speculation was not going to be helpful, so thank you so much for the brave choice to wait before significant facts were in, and in sharing the information about the technical details of both the submersible and the technology used in the search.
From what I've been reading, the coast guard did not hear the implosion in real-time but instead were given information that the sub went missing, may have imploded, and were directed to listen through their recordings and see if there was anything.
i think it was the navy that was peeping their communications, noticed the comms went down, and reported to the coast guard. that’s my understanding of it at least.
Regardless, can you imagine listening to the recording and just hearing the death of five people instantaneously 😰
“OceanGate is a legitimate scientific research organization.”
*cut to interview with the “designers”* “yeah we got this from uh…. Camper World.”
Two of the best naval TH-camrs, one giving updates by the day and once giving a definitive conclusion and summary at the end
What other channel is there? Thanks 😊
@@justinehelene4831 historic travels, equally as good with maybe a little lower production quality
I’ve watched 2 of your videos so far. Let me tell you, the way you present your content and explain it, really keeps you engaged. Awesome work!
James Cameron said the Titan disaster is similar to the Titanic disaster and the captain ignored safety warnings. This means that both disasters could have been prevented
James Cameron is an opportunist that is made a fortune off of Titanic. forgive me if I don't take what he says as gospel.
@@highlander723one of the most talented and successful directors of our time, he is the gospel and baby I'm a believer!
@@highlander723 He already had a lot of money from making terminator and aliens :-)
But he did build a submersible almost on his own and dived to the deepest place on earth, so I guess he knows what he is talking about. He seems to be an honest guy and what he brought up are all legitimate points.
@@highlander723 he also has actual experience in designing his own submersibles which were clearly safe and didn't risk the lives of anyone but himself
"material failure" ...titanic=metal plate/rivet, space shuttle columbia=o ring failure, 2nd space shuttle=errant foam hitting wint tiles, titan sub=glue/joint CF hull failure causing implosion.
I can immediately tell this was a hard tale for you to tell, but.. Thank you.
Unfortunately, Oceangate was more concerned with making money & ignore advice, disregard proper procedures, & cut corners with using “off the shelf” parts that were not ever intended to use in the fashion of deep diving. I do not fell sorry for those guys at all. I feel sorry for the 19 yr old, the friends & families of the dead. C’est la vie.
Wish the majority had thought the same with the Warp Speed experimental injection. Disregarding proper procedures, ignoring or censoring advice, concerned with profit over long term studies and risk analysis.
Enjoy your boosters!!
I don’t understand why people keep focusing on the “off the shelf” parts. There’s nothing wrong with that and in most cases it makes total sense to use off the shelf when appropriate or beneficial. They weren’t cutting corners by using off the shelf. There’s no need to design and engineer a super complicated mouse trap when the tried and tested basic mouse trap works perfectly.
As mentioned in this very video the US Navy now uses off the shelf game controllers to control their new submarines. Game controllers are used for a lot of military applications.
Yep, the CEO even said there's a rule against using carbon fiber with titanium but we did it anyway
@@cruisinguy6024Agreed, The gaming controller is absolutely fine, Its literally no different than a Joystick in most heavy machinery.. It probably shouldn't have been wireless but still, Completely acceptable imo.. Same goes for the lights from the Camper Rental.. Completely fine..
Now the Carbon Fiber Hull on the other hand was not, It is definitely what caused the implosion.. A dozen dives and was never properly inspected or replaced with new Carbon Fiber.
If I were a bored jillionaire with more money than wisdom, I'd probably have bought Rush's snake oil, too... I feel so bad for their loved ones
An excellent, well-balanced, and very informative report Mike! Thanks for your hard work on this!
And thanks for maintaining the old tradition of wearing a black tie as a sign of mourning. I was beginning to think I was the only one who did that anymore. A very classy and heart-felt thing to do.
Well done indeed.
I was honestly waiting for your video on this, Mike. I didn't want to watch any of the videos flooding TH-cam about this--seriously just wanted your solemn and informed take, and you have not failed to deliver. Thank you for your work
Omg I've been obsessed with your channel for a few weeks now and then THIS happens. I was really hoping we'd get a video from you on the situation. You're probably one of my favorite creators now!