I'd not realised that the first time I watched this episode. But then I binge-watched a couple of seasons and I just... wow. Go Ezri, go have a cry in the same place you (Dax) were murdered less than a year ago because someone called you on the bs of you being a Counsellor. It's not even a joke that her being a Counsellor, she got it because Sisko called in a favour. And I am just appalled that Starfleet thought that a green, not even really qualified Counsellor was the best person to serve as a Counsellor at the main hub of the Dominion War. Gah!
I agree. Given the mess she was, she had no business even *thinking* about counseling someone else. And don't get me started on that undeserved promotion she received. That moment just screamed, "Hey, everybody! Look at the 'Mary Sue' of 'Deep Space Nine', our very own Ezri Dax!" Can you tell that I'm not too fond of her? (Grin)
While she was already about to cry, she paused for a moment, after looking around, I think she only just realized that she ended up where her last life ended and it added too it. Then she just exploded
Earlier in the episode that was one of the first places she stopped by. Kira found her there and they talked about it a little. This time it was just instinct. As a promising young assistant counselor, she can't even keep herself together enough to help someone - her old life and career has died. As a person, the dead can do nothing, can help nobody, have no place among the living. She's a shade of Jadzia. So it's kind of a great choice to see her go to where that life ended, even if none of this is said out loud. Plus sometimes you just want to revisit something bad to get sad/mad about how much it fucked everything up.
He was talking about himself as much as he was her. I think that's why he was so disgusted by her, she reminded him too much of himself. And that's the worst thing you could do to Garak.
He was hurting and every word he said was true, just delivered in a nasty way. She should now, as a therapist AND as Dex. But no. She goes into a corner and cries.
DeBoer was put in an impossible situation; replacing a beloved character in the show--much less in the *last season*--is a truly thankless task. That she pulled it off as well as she did is a tribute to her talents as an actress.
Remember when Garak told assaulted by the Klingons? Garak: Ah, but I got off several cutting remarks which no doubt did serious damage to their egos. Bashir: Garak, this isn't funny. Garak: I'm serious, doctor! Thanks to your administrations I'm almost completely healed but the damage I did to them will last a lifetime. He wasn't exaggerating
@@Djm95454 I thikn you're agreeing that Letsneverplayagain is right, the correct word is "ministrations", not "administrations". Not really a bad mistake though.
@@chrishubbard64 Probably anything other than the simple truth of the matter. Because Ezri Dax *was* trying to be Jadzia'Dax, and not Ezri'Dax. And that is the crux of the issue of Ezri as a whole. She never tried to become her own true person but insisted on being Jadzia 2.0 and was just a pale shadow. Something unkind would be how she didn't deserve any symbiote if all she strove to be was a copy of the previous wearers, rather than adding her legacy to predecessors. The whole idea of the Trill was to add to the legacy, not to be a pale shadow. Ezi is a poor example of the Dax line and a poor Trill if she is incapable of being her own person but just a shadow of the previous one. Even if you claim that it was to save the Dax symbiote, Ezri should have taken a position literally anywhere else. She was incapable or refused to become her own person and you cannot blame that on the Dominion War.
If memory serves, Cardassians are literally turned on by insults and it's their standard courtship behavior. So actually going beyond into cruelty they would find truly hurtful is probably... extreme.
Can we talk about the fact Ezri got all that flung her way and did not even flinch until she had taken herself to a safer space away from Garak? Like that's difficult man, she has some serious self-control.
Sisko made a major mistake asking Ezri to talk to Garak. You don't send an emotionally-compromised therapist to talk to an unwilling patient with a tendency towards biting insults and aggressive psychoanalysis. She was doomed before she even entered the shop.
But she did get to him at the end. Garak lashed at her because he was afraid to show his weakness, he knew she would find out eventually what is killing him from inside.
Garak has a way of making people feel terrible about themselves on multiple levels. In two sentences, he insulted Dukat on twenty levels. “She really is quite lovely. She must take after her mother.”
Dukat deserved it lol. Usually Garak's insults are earned. This time, however, he was grieving both for his people and for the loss of a friend. I get why he blew up.
It still baffles me that Nikki de Boer can get fan shade for not being Terry Farrell and that Ezri isn't Jadzia. And she is such a sweetheart in real life too, total class act.
to be fair, the writers did her dirty by putting her in that position, so it's a "do what you can with the task provided" scenario. Was just not a good follow up for fans so close to after that. Could have been on another show or in a future movie. Especially with the shit Worf was feeling, the confusion of his recently killed wife.... Sisko has gone through 2 and is on a third.... it's messed up and a lot of characters, written to respond in different ways, could catch just as much flak, even more . Imagine Worf and Ezri getting married and having children in the final season. How would fans take that? Holy smokes. It was probably just not a good choice for the writers in general but they did it and we watched it. so, eh. My Rav 4 is named Dax for being as crazy as Curzon.
@@firestuka8850 I don't agree at all, but then again I didn't really relate to the character of Jadzia and her death wasn't a punch in the gut to me. I related to Ezri far more: - emotional and draws from that fact - it's a strength and a source of wisdom, not a liability, - a quick learner that can easily think on her feet, - plagued by impostor syndrome but always delivers and outgrows the expectations despite not getting a lot of support - not even the bare minimum of help as a fresh Trill host or a counselor, because every counselor ought to have a supervisor and she wasn't granted that, so she will accomplish impossible tasks thinking that her struggles are caused by her inadequacy and pushing herself far too much instead of accepting that her level of skill is expected and natural, - doesn't sugarcoat shit and is rather free of bias (I mean the way she acknowledged flaws within her family and roasted the Klingon Empire right to Worf's face), - has a bad relationship with her family full of dicks and isn't afraid to hold them at arm's length, - wants to be her own person - for her achievements to be her own and to be fully independent instead of using her family's money and connections or piggybacking off of somebody else like Jadzia did with Dax's previous hosts, - has an analytical mind, especially towards psychology and behavioral sciences but not limited to, - is willing to explore the darkest corners of her psyche because she understands it won't go anywhere just because she'd pretend it doesn't exist, - is shy and understanding but isn't a doormat and won't hesitate to kick butt in self-defence, - rules are to be broken if needed - not as an act of defiance or rebellion but because no set of rules is good for every one person and the wellbeing of a person is more important than made up bullshit - a sign of a true counselor. So given that list I really can't understand how anyone dares say she wasn't fully developed or was badly written. She was great. They gave her far more to do as a counselor in 1 season than they gave Troi in 7 seasons of TNG, and her style of work was actually viable. They developed her as a character in 1 season more than Jadzia in 6 - sorry, I know Jadzia is a fan favorite but it has more to do with her being a hot chick and a bro than a developed well-rounded character.
@@firestuka8850well it's confusing for everyone, the only one who took it well was Sisko because this is the third time Sisko dealt with the trill dax.
DS9 is by far my favorite Trek show. My only complaint about the series is that we only got one season of Ezri. There were a ton of great characters in this series, and she was definitely one of them.
Okay, verbally eviscerate her then say, "Now get out of here. Before I say something unkind." After all that, I gotta wonder...what the FUCK was the UNKIND stuff he was holding back on?!
this is Elim fuckin Garak, so if he really wanted to, he'd have her throw herself from the promenade's upper level i think he rather wanted her to think about herself & find out who she really was. she was kinda sleepwalking through her life, and he helped her wake up. it was a bit of a shock therapy, but when you see her in later episodes, she gets stronger & more confident. so in fact, he was helping her.
harpyion True. Hey, I freakin' LOVE Garak, I bought his book "A Stitch In Time" (strongly recommend reading it by the way) written by Andrew Robinson himself. Garak is AWESOME and a BADASS, legit.
While I disliked the way he treated her, I think he was real upset over what was happening to his homeworld and in secret, despised their betrayal by joining the Dominion, even though he himself would have been capable of such a treacherous move. Maybe he saw Cardassia as whoring herself out to a fearsome, destructive alien empire that threatened their way of living and freedom. Being a patriot, he probably saw Cardassia being used as a 'tool' in reaping the benefits for the Dominion only. And now he was forced to kill his own people in a war they would lose. No wonder he joined Damar's resistance. I think the Dax symbiont also helped Ezri in dealing with Garak's conniption fit, despite she felt really bad over it. The symbiont probably had its fair share of bullshit over its 300 year existence, so his hurtful tirade might have been something familiar to her in another life......maybe all those times Curzon was dealing with harsh Klingons during negotiations.
The stuff making her Mind break and not make her grow stronger through defeat. If you do so, make sure the other one is strong enough inside. And a Dax is strong - Ezri was just afraid of beeing strong. Saying the same in a friendly, advising matter and not that agressive will break someone. Cause depression and finally suicidal thoughts. But make yourself the Villain, make you the enemy makes the other resent your words. If thoose Words were the true reason of that Persons struggles, the Person starts to resent this as well and start improving "to show you were wrong". That is Garak teaching. Painful? Yes. Cruel? Yes. Fast? Yes. An they had no Time as he said. She needed to grow fast or get eaten up by the Beast that is War. A Beast Garak is taught that same way to get used to handling it. If you had "helped" her by tellign what her flaws are she'd sought "to imporove to meet the Requirements" - and that had been the fastest way to make her throw herself in front of that Beast, gettin killed as trooper.
This was, genuinely, the scene where I came to appreciate Ezri as a separate character. It showed her overcoming her own self doubts and stepping out of Jadzia, and into Ezri. Do I still prefer Jadzia? Yes of course, but that's not because Ezri is a bad character. She just has to go through her S1 arc on the LAST season... Because they didn't want to renew it ;(
This is why he was such a gifted interrogator. He knows exactly where to hit you. Not to hurt you. But to utterly break you in a tweet. Hell, she's a therapist. She knows that the patient lashing out is part of the process and it still worked.
Just because you know how to mend it does not give you any resilience towards getting broken by it - as it does not the opposite way round. This is Garak "teaching" her self confidence the only way he knows, the Way he learned all his life. And seeing a Dax strengh unused in her Pains him horribly - as he yearns for this all his life but could not find it in himself. Jadzia showed him that this Strengh is only to be found through interaction, even the hurtful ones. That is the reason he started to have Lunch with Bashir, an Outsider with Secrets as him, yet managing to fit in and lacking that strengh as well. If he can teach Bashir that Strengh, he can do the same and get it as well. This also resonates with Bashirs Story - "the science Guinea Pig". Bashir realizes this to some degree, but is not offended rather than intruiged by this, he also want to see where this goes - as Garak does many Times when intruiged. And so he was "himself" while forcing Ezri to grow some selfconfidence because she will need it in that War of will end up dead as Jadzia - or worse, a "colletaral damage" as he is.
Everyone talking about how savage Garak was here (which he was of course, rightfully so), and all I could really think of was how pronounced his neck and shoulder ridges (if that's the right word) seemed in this scene. They made Garak look like an aggravated cobra ready to strike. And in fact strike he did, but it was more of a warning strike.
I noticed that, too! think it helps that the camera angles reinforced the idea that he was both taller and stronger than Ezri, thus making her look smaller compared to him even though Andrew Robinson is only 5'10. I think they also had perfected his makeup by that point so the details stood out better, particularly in that shirt, which framed his neck ridges rather than covering them. Mmm... Neck ridges...
I never found her attractive in DS9. The uniform, the hair, never attractive. Years later, she was far more attractive. But she recently appeared on Lore Reloaded's channel looking fine.
One of the reasons I really like this scene is that it's kind of a nod to the fans themselves - Garak is virtually repeating every fan complaint about a character who'd only been in the series (by this point) for about five episodes.
maybe first episode on the station but she had at least 2 episodes prior to this one.... she first appeared outside sisko's fathers place and then they spent another episode uncovering the orb, she didnt arrive on the station until sisko came back... so in this clip where she is clearly on the station thus it couldnt of been her first episode on the show.
Matthew Kuba yeah, during negotiations for the last season she didn't like what she was offered. Some of the others could go and do other projects and stuff but she wasn't allowed. She had to take the deal or leave, so she left. Apparently it was all Rick Berman's fault
I think a phaser would have done less damage. Every word he said was true. Jadzia was everything he said she was and Ezri is everything he said she is and held zero back. That is what made DS9 different. Troi, I think, would try to read his feelings and may be scared off!
You can't compare Ezri to Jadzia. Jadzia had extensive training on how to be a symbiont host. She was always confident in herself. Ezri had no experience in being a joined Trill, she didn't even want to be a joined Trill, she was fresh the Academy. Still not sure about herself, or her place in the galaxy.
TGGeko Ehh, I don't think this was really projection; just inherrent defense mechanisms at work. Garak had a horrible life from childhood onwards and survived by both compartmentalizing his emotional scars and actively stopping anyone from getting near them. His first line of defense when he's in full control is pleasant congeleality mixed with well fabricated lies to placate others (his spycraft training at work). If that fails (or if he's been made more vunerable by one of his flaws), he resorts to cruelty and biting critisism; typically using information he's built up of someone's psyche for maximum effect. He *KNEW* Ezri had feelings of inadequacy as a host and used that to get her to back off.
Garak is usually talking about himself, under the guise of talking about other things. And when he wants to talk about other things, he does so by talking about other other things.
Ezri's welcome to DS9, home to aliens with broken childhoods and low-functioning personality disorders. First up: A lesson in frustrated love, rage and cruelty, as only a glassy-eyed Explosive Sadist can teach it.
@@GestapoPussyRanch Garak always did have a gift for ironic understatement. This scene compares to the time years earlier when Bashir tried to help Garak and received a disillusioning diatribe for his trouble.
What makes Garak's words so destructive in this scene is that he's speaking honestly....( a rarity for the character ) Garak of all people knows that honesty is very volatile and extremely potent. A brutally honest statement is easily one of most destructive things you can say to another person. Most of us will put up our emotional shields once someone starts cursing, using slurs or making threats.. but honesty is something that we innately accept.. it's something that cuts to the core. Use extreme caution when dispensing the truth. Unfiltered it can end careers, friendships, marriages, even lives.
I would make an opposite suggestion - stop being a pussy and teach yourself to be capable of accepting honesty and truth of others. That said, there are different ways of being honest and it, like any kind of communication, must be handled properly. TNG was heavily about this, Picard was the master of such communication and others were VERY good too.
Technically he was being truthful with his 'Now get out of here before I say something unkind'. From most Cardassian's perspective, and especially someone as flawed as Garak, showing someone their flaws so they may improve themselves is a kindness.
I certainly agree with that perception. Showing someone their weaknesses can be most helpful in helping them better themselves. Its something that should be done far more often, I suspect.
i kinda wish the series lasted a little longer so we could see a little more character development on ezri. ezri wasn't around till the last season so if the series lasted a season or two longer i bet we could see some more development in ezri and it wouldn't make her look and sound like a counselor who is a girly miss two shoes that really isn't starfleet material.
She should have laughed, turned on her heel and while fondling a garment near the door retorted: "Why, youre just a big softie arent you Garak? [pause] You dropped a stitch here. Come see me when you want to talk." Then left.
Garak WAS being kind--in his own way. Ezri needed to hear some pretty harsh truths about herself. What Garak told her was exactly how she was. He told her what she needed to hear.
He was only hard on her because he knew she needed it. Naaaaa-that is psycho babble. Garek was hardcore, uncensored truthful. He did hold back a little for her.
Problem with Ezri was that she was an ensign, fresh out of SF Medical... Usually they need to work under someone else's tutelage to become experience. She wasn't experienced.
@@Locutus In hindsight, I liked Ezri more than Jadzia. It took a while as I said, but in the end she was more grounded. Jadzia could be a raving narcissist at times.
Yeah Garrick the person who has the Memories and experience of several people in her head couldn’t possibly start to understand what you are going through
Man I don't remember Garek being so cruel. I mean give Ezri a break, she never had the training to be a symbiote. Damn Garek, I thought you were a good bad guy
reading these comments, i'd like to point out garrak is the only one who did her a solid, here and when she felt incapable, he gave her that push no one else, she doubted herself, was probably the only person who hadn't come to terms with the fact shes in the effective middle of a warzone then we have garrak who points this out to her, in the only way really that was gonna help. when he gets oddly uncharactaristically upset about the deaths of fellow cardassians cause of his work decoding whatever it was, comms? he, a former obsiandian order member, who killed a great many, who just a year earlier blew up a romulan ambassador if it was nothing. he knows fine well what hes saying and why hes saying it to her. find the full of this and i beleive the next episode, he has this oddly satisfied smile at the end after ezri starts coming around
Most trill move on from previous lives and the people that were in them. Ezri is constantly living with the people who are still mourning the loss of someone they loved, who she didn't even know, but has her memories, part of her expecting them to treat her like an old friend and in some ways they are complete strangers and then they try to treat her like she's not Jadzia, but then they'll be reminded that she has a little but of Jadzia in her. It must be overwhelming and actress really shows it when she breaks down in the spot where Jadzia died.
As large as the Federation is, why could they not send this woman to serve someplace else. Not to the place where her predecessor had friends and family.
Garak was right, he has ALOT of baggage to unload and this ..thing.. calling herself Dax is nowhere near qualified to help him. Deanna Troi would have a hard time getting Garak fixed even after years. She did what most would figure her to do in that situation, run off and cry in a corner because someone was mean to her.
+no1reallycaresabout2 Not just that. Just imagine what was she going through. Her whole life was put upside down. She didn't have any training to be joined and because of all that she lost herself, her personality. Half of the time she didn't know who's life she was living. Ezri's , Jadzia's, Curzon's, it's no wonder she was so scared and confused. And of course there was that problem with Worf also, so when you put that all together she was handling herself remarkably well all things considering.
Farrell was a very limited actress. She had a nice face but that was not enough to hold her for more than 2 or 3 seasons. She was boring. Ezri was bright, young, funny. Finally some lightness in deep space. I wish she was there earlier. So we could see her mature to a fine woman. I think she's adorable.
Yes, Garak tears Ezri to shreds here, but that’s not what I love about this scene. When he says “I KNEW Jadzia, she was vital, alive, she owned herself”, he truly respected Dax, even though they never had an obvious on-screen friendship.
It's a shame I can't find the first scene where they spoke. She basically accidentally psychoanalyzes him on their first meeting, without even trying to. it must've been frustrating for Garak for someone else so green and innocent to blunder into his life and guess his problem so accurately. Likely impacted how he treats her here.
"Now get out of here....before I say something unkind." Man. If that stuff before wasn't unkind, I'd hate to see how much deeper he could dig that dagger.
Garak was one of my favorite charaters in DS9, but this is one of the instances that I wanted to punch him myself. Even if the truth can be a necessary evil to help someone grow and understand, there are times when you can go too far. This was one of those times.
And yet, even if the truth can be harsh as ground glass glued on heavy sandpaper, it often is what's needed to give someone the impetus to move forwards and better themselves. Yes, Garak did drop the heavy end of the hammer on Ezri, but she did eventually work out her personal/personality problems and became a better officer and woman for it. There's an old axiom that says, "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar", but quite often it's "vinegar" that will cleanse the soul and give you a fresh start.
I think Garak was under way more stress than he was letting on to everybody. If the Cardassians are anything like humans, the hot build-up from such negative emotions could eventually brim over and blow off, affecting everybody all around them. I wonder if Bashir took a beating from him afterwards. He can be gray area character, but everyone seems to forgive him afterwards....well, except Dukat :(
Garak's version of "unkind" must be something hurtful AND untrue. More often than one might expect, saying something hurtful but true isn't necessarily unkind, but most certainly uncomfortable. Getting the truth, ugly and stinging as it may be, can help to steer oneself in the right direction. Provided, of course, that you get any additional help necessary to do so. Someone said "If the truth is recognized for what it is, the source is irrelevant." I think that for the sake of processing the truth itself, that is true. But if an enemy of yours is trying to use the truth to hurt and dissuade you from a proper course of action or something else bad, you should fight fire with fire and respond with a greater truth. Classic example is: "I am not very good at this yet, that is true, but I am not a quitter!" The former truth will cease to be a fact given time and effort, but the latter has the potential to stay true for the rest of the speaker's life. Garak was not an enemy here, though. Here, he was a victim who quite justly, yet abrasively, rejected Ezri's attempt to help him. He didn't say that to discourage her from becoming better at it, just that she, at the time, was unsuitable for the role she was attempting to fulfill. The part where he insinuated that she was less worth than Jadzia as a person was not true on a factual level, but from a personal viewpoint. He was truthful to his own feelings about her, and her predecessor, but it came out much harsher than necessary due to his anguish and stress, from other sources than the loss of Jadzia, he was desperately trying to contain and handle. So summarize, I feel Garak was wrong to word things the way he did, but he was not wrong on the matter at large either.
I absolutely ADORE Garak, but I think he was incorrect here, due no doubt to his own pain. But treating people this way is not normally his style, and his lesson to Ezri could have been better taught another way. And he of all people normally would know that.
+Mary Knasinski He was giving her the blunt truth. His own personal suffering isn't the top priority since there was much more important things, such as saving Cardassia from their own destruction. And he was right. Hundred of millions of Cardassians died as a result of the Dominion War.
Garak mentions his father before he unleashes his tirade, and at that moment he displays how Enabran Tain would probably have spoken to him when he was displeased with him. That's the way I read this scene anyway but I am only on page five of the Intergalactic Pyshcobabel handbook
I find it neat that the place Ezri goes to cry is the same place where Jadzia was murdered.
I'd not realised that the first time I watched this episode. But then I binge-watched a couple of seasons and I just... wow. Go Ezri, go have a cry in the same place you (Dax) were murdered less than a year ago because someone called you on the bs of you being a Counsellor. It's not even a joke that her being a Counsellor, she got it because Sisko called in a favour. And I am just appalled that Starfleet thought that a green, not even really qualified Counsellor was the best person to serve as a Counsellor at the main hub of the Dominion War. Gah!
Holy crap, I hadn't noticed that before. Great psychological continuity.
I agree. Given the mess she was, she had no business even *thinking* about counseling someone else. And don't get me started on that undeserved promotion she received. That moment just screamed, "Hey, everybody! Look at the 'Mary Sue' of 'Deep Space Nine', our very own Ezri Dax!"
Can you tell that I'm not too fond of her? (Grin)
While she was already about to cry, she paused for a moment, after looking around, I think she only just realized that she ended up where her last life ended and it added too it. Then she just exploded
Earlier in the episode that was one of the first places she stopped by. Kira found her there and they talked about it a little. This time it was just instinct. As a promising young assistant counselor, she can't even keep herself together enough to help someone - her old life and career has died. As a person, the dead can do nothing, can help nobody, have no place among the living. She's a shade of Jadzia. So it's kind of a great choice to see her go to where that life ended, even if none of this is said out loud.
Plus sometimes you just want to revisit something bad to get sad/mad about how much it fucked everything up.
This is one of the few times that Garaks foot slipped off the brakes and you can see how comfortable he is with cruelty.
Well, he did used to torture people as part of his job.
He was talking about himself as much as he was her. I think that's why he was so disgusted by her, she reminded him too much of himself. And that's the worst thing you could do to Garak.
It's been said that hurting people hurt people. Garak is angry and frustrated at himself and took out his anger at Ezri.
He was hurting and every word he said was true, just delivered in a nasty way. She should now, as a therapist AND as Dex. But no. She goes into a corner and cries.
@@nela3986 Because no one ever cried at being told a harsh truth?
DeBoer was put in an impossible situation; replacing a beloved character in the show--much less in the *last season*--is a truly thankless task. That she pulled it off as well as she did is a tribute to her talents as an actress.
She played her character well. The character just wasn't a satisfactory replacement for Jadzia.
She did a great job! she sold her character in 1 season! a monumental accomplishment!
Well...she did the one thing Jadzia initially refused to do: get in bed with Dr. Julian Bashir.
I really liked her character. Fish out of water, in over her head, struggling.
One of my favorite characters. Cute as a jar full of buttons too.
@@eschelar 100% agree
Remember when Garak told assaulted by the Klingons?
Garak: Ah, but I got off several cutting remarks which no doubt did serious damage to their egos.
Bashir: Garak, this isn't funny.
Garak: I'm serious, doctor! Thanks to your administrations I'm almost completely healed but the damage I did to them will last a lifetime.
He wasn't exaggerating
One of the previous comments in this thread reminded me of that scene.
"ministrations"
administrations? What the fuck?
LetsNeverPlayAgain it means “the provision of assistance or care”
@@Djm95454 I thikn you're agreeing that Letsneverplayagain is right, the correct word is "ministrations", not "administrations". Not really a bad mistake though.
Could be referring to his administration of medical care. Not really a mistake.
"before I say something unkind"
The Cardassian definition of unkind is definitely different from most other species.
I have to admit to an idle curiosity as to WHAT he would consider unkind.
I'm pretty sure he was reinforcing that everything he said was just facts, and to leave before he tells her what he *actually* thinks.
@@chrishubbard64 Probably anything other than the simple truth of the matter. Because Ezri Dax *was* trying to be Jadzia'Dax, and not Ezri'Dax. And that is the crux of the issue of Ezri as a whole. She never tried to become her own true person but insisted on being Jadzia 2.0 and was just a pale shadow.
Something unkind would be how she didn't deserve any symbiote if all she strove to be was a copy of the previous wearers, rather than adding her legacy to predecessors. The whole idea of the Trill was to add to the legacy, not to be a pale shadow. Ezi is a poor example of the Dax line and a poor Trill if she is incapable of being her own person but just a shadow of the previous one.
Even if you claim that it was to save the Dax symbiote, Ezri should have taken a position literally anywhere else. She was incapable or refused to become her own person and you cannot blame that on the Dominion War.
@@DwarfyDoodad You are right. You are not me. Nor should you try to be me. You are Tenzin.
If memory serves, Cardassians are literally turned on by insults and it's their standard courtship behavior. So actually going beyond into cruelty they would find truly hurtful is probably... extreme.
Can we talk about the fact Ezri got all that flung her way and did not even flinch until she had taken herself to a safer space away from Garak? Like that's difficult man, she has some serious self-control.
And the place she went to hide was where Jadzia died
Safer space? Last time Dax was in that shrine Jadzia lost her life!!
Sisko made a major mistake asking Ezri to talk to Garak. You don't send an emotionally-compromised therapist to talk to an unwilling patient with a tendency towards biting insults and aggressive psychoanalysis. She was doomed before she even entered the shop.
For trying to help. Stop blaming the victim here.
They're saying Sisko sent her into the lion's den.
And yet it worked in the end
Sisko also sent Dax to talk to Garak in order to help Ezri. He knew Garak would say the things he never could.
But she did get to him at the end. Garak lashed at her because he was afraid to show his weakness, he knew she would find out eventually what is killing him from inside.
When you're low level but you face the end boss too early.
When you're X and you meet Vile for the first time.
Garak has a way of making people feel terrible about themselves on multiple levels. In two sentences, he insulted Dukat on twenty levels. “She really is quite lovely. She must take after her mother.”
Dukat deserved it lol. Usually Garak's insults are earned. This time, however, he was grieving both for his people and for the loss of a friend. I get why he blew up.
Quark made the same comment to Worf about Alexander lol.
Shades of Doctor Who & Harriet Jones; *Don’t you think she looks tired?*
Dukat was so incompetent and narcissistic I eventually just stop blaming him for his faults and started blaming the people that enabled him.
I come back to DS9 as an adult and... i liked it when I watched it new. I /LOVE/ it now when I can get the more subtle bits.
It still baffles me that Nikki de Boer can get fan shade for not being Terry Farrell and that Ezri isn't Jadzia. And she is such a sweetheart in real life too, total class act.
to be fair, the writers did her dirty by putting her in that position, so it's a "do what you can with the task provided" scenario. Was just not a good follow up for fans so close to after that. Could have been on another show or in a future movie. Especially with the shit Worf was feeling, the confusion of his recently killed wife.... Sisko has gone through 2 and is on a third.... it's messed up and a lot of characters, written to respond in different ways, could catch just as much flak, even more . Imagine Worf and Ezri getting married and having children in the final season. How would fans take that? Holy smokes. It was probably just not a good choice for the writers in general but they did it and we watched it. so, eh. My Rav 4 is named Dax for being as crazy as Curzon.
@@firestuka8850 I don't agree at all, but then again I didn't really relate to the character of Jadzia and her death wasn't a punch in the gut to me. I related to Ezri far more:
- emotional and draws from that fact - it's a strength and a source of wisdom, not a liability,
- a quick learner that can easily think on her feet,
- plagued by impostor syndrome but always delivers and outgrows the expectations despite not getting a lot of support - not even the bare minimum of help as a fresh Trill host or a counselor, because every counselor ought to have a supervisor and she wasn't granted that, so she will accomplish impossible tasks thinking that her struggles are caused by her inadequacy and pushing herself far too much instead of accepting that her level of skill is expected and natural,
- doesn't sugarcoat shit and is rather free of bias (I mean the way she acknowledged flaws within her family and roasted the Klingon Empire right to Worf's face),
- has a bad relationship with her family full of dicks and isn't afraid to hold them at arm's length,
- wants to be her own person - for her achievements to be her own and to be fully independent instead of using her family's money and connections or piggybacking off of somebody else like Jadzia did with Dax's previous hosts,
- has an analytical mind, especially towards psychology and behavioral sciences but not limited to,
- is willing to explore the darkest corners of her psyche because she understands it won't go anywhere just because she'd pretend it doesn't exist,
- is shy and understanding but isn't a doormat and won't hesitate to kick butt in self-defence,
- rules are to be broken if needed - not as an act of defiance or rebellion but because no set of rules is good for every one person and the wellbeing of a person is more important than made up bullshit - a sign of a true counselor.
So given that list I really can't understand how anyone dares say she wasn't fully developed or was badly written. She was great. They gave her far more to do as a counselor in 1 season than they gave Troi in 7 seasons of TNG, and her style of work was actually viable. They developed her as a character in 1 season more than Jadzia in 6 - sorry, I know Jadzia is a fan favorite but it has more to do with her being a hot chick and a bro than a developed well-rounded character.
BASHIR: They broke seven of your transverse ribs and fractured your clavicle!
@@firestuka8850well it's confusing for everyone, the only one who took it well was Sisko because this is the third time Sisko dealt with the trill dax.
DS9 is by far my favorite Trek show. My only complaint about the series is that we only got one season of Ezri. There were a ton of great characters in this series, and she was definitely one of them.
Ezri: Would you like some professional counseling?
Garak: I'm about to end this woman's whole career.
Garak: If you insist. When will you be sending one over?
On the contrary, him venting probably did help him, so she accomplished her goal.
except he didn’t, he made her whole career
Holy shit garak is mean..BUt god damn..He is the best charecter ever..
Okay, verbally eviscerate her then say, "Now get out of here. Before I say something unkind." After all that, I gotta wonder...what the FUCK was the UNKIND stuff he was holding back on?!
this is Elim fuckin Garak, so if he really wanted to, he'd have her throw herself from the promenade's upper level
i think he rather wanted her to think about herself & find out who she really was. she was kinda sleepwalking through her life, and he helped her wake up.
it was a bit of a shock therapy, but when you see her in later episodes, she gets stronger & more confident. so in fact, he was helping her.
harpyion True. Hey, I freakin' LOVE Garak, I bought his book "A Stitch In Time" (strongly recommend reading it by the way) written by Andrew Robinson himself. Garak is AWESOME and a BADASS, legit.
While I disliked the way he treated her, I think he was real upset over what was happening to his homeworld and in secret, despised their betrayal by joining the Dominion, even though he himself would have been capable of such a treacherous move.
Maybe he saw Cardassia as whoring herself out to a fearsome, destructive alien empire that threatened their way of living and freedom. Being a patriot, he probably saw Cardassia being used as a 'tool' in reaping the benefits for the Dominion only. And now he was forced to kill his own people in a war they would lose. No wonder he joined Damar's resistance.
I think the Dax symbiont also helped Ezri in dealing with Garak's conniption fit, despite she felt really bad over it. The symbiont probably had its fair share of bullshit over its 300 year existence, so his hurtful tirade might have been something familiar to her in another life......maybe all those times Curzon was dealing with harsh Klingons during negotiations.
The stuff making her Mind break and not make her grow stronger through defeat.
If you do so, make sure the other one is strong enough inside.
And a Dax is strong - Ezri was just afraid of beeing strong.
Saying the same in a friendly, advising matter and not that agressive will break someone.
Cause depression and finally suicidal thoughts.
But make yourself the Villain, make you the enemy makes the other resent your words.
If thoose Words were the true reason of that Persons struggles, the Person starts to resent this as well and start improving "to show you were wrong".
That is Garak teaching. Painful? Yes. Cruel? Yes. Fast? Yes.
An they had no Time as he said. She needed to grow fast or get eaten up by the Beast that is War.
A Beast Garak is taught that same way to get used to handling it.
If you had "helped" her by tellign what her flaws are she'd sought "to imporove to meet the Requirements" - and that had been the fastest way to make her throw herself in front of that Beast, gettin killed as trooper.
I appreciate the fact that she folded up and ugly cried. Too often characters are just too all powerful.
This was, genuinely, the scene where I came to appreciate Ezri as a separate character. It showed her overcoming her own self doubts and stepping out of Jadzia, and into Ezri. Do I still prefer Jadzia? Yes of course, but that's not because Ezri is a bad character. She just has to go through her S1 arc on the LAST season...
Because they didn't want to renew it ;(
"Insipid psycho-babble..." that just destroys her whole profession.
Jesus.
When garak is on your side. hes great.
But when hes on the OTHER side. And you aren't up to tackling him.
O-o. He will fucking STEAMROLL you.
This is why he was such a gifted interrogator. He knows exactly where to hit you. Not to hurt you. But to utterly break you in a tweet. Hell, she's a therapist. She knows that the patient lashing out is part of the process and it still worked.
Garak should have gotten a spin-off. Such an incredible character.
Just because you know how to mend it does not give you any resilience towards getting broken by it - as it does not the opposite way round.
This is Garak "teaching" her self confidence the only way he knows, the Way he learned all his life.
And seeing a Dax strengh unused in her Pains him horribly - as he yearns for this all his life but could not find it in himself.
Jadzia showed him that this Strengh is only to be found through interaction, even the hurtful ones.
That is the reason he started to have Lunch with Bashir, an Outsider with Secrets as him, yet managing to fit in and lacking that strengh as well. If he can teach Bashir that Strengh, he can do the same and get it as well.
This also resonates with Bashirs Story - "the science Guinea Pig".
Bashir realizes this to some degree, but is not offended rather than intruiged by this, he also want to see where this goes - as Garak does many Times when intruiged.
And so he was "himself" while forcing Ezri to grow some selfconfidence because she will need it in that War of will end up dead as Jadzia - or worse, a "colletaral damage" as he is.
I wish we got to hear Garak's opinion on counsellor Troi!
Everyone talking about how savage Garak was here (which he was of course, rightfully so), and all I could really think of was how pronounced his neck and shoulder ridges (if that's the right word) seemed in this scene. They made Garak look like an aggravated cobra ready to strike. And in fact strike he did, but it was more of a warning strike.
I noticed that, too! think it helps that the camera angles reinforced the idea that he was both taller and stronger than Ezri, thus making her look smaller compared to him even though Andrew Robinson is only 5'10. I think they also had perfected his makeup by that point so the details stood out better, particularly in that shirt, which framed his neck ridges rather than covering them. Mmm... Neck ridges...
Sisko in his quarters: “Hmm I wonder if it was a good idea sending Ezri to talk to Garak...oh well I’m sure she’s fine.”
I'm sure Sisko was thinking "What possible problem could Garak pose that Dax hasn't had to deal with in 8 lifetimes?"
@@volrag Sisko always overestimated how much Dax was Dax.
I forgot how cute she was
She really is, shame she didn't have a personality more than "concerned innocence" it was kind of one dimensional.
Ow The Edge
agree
I never found her attractive in DS9. The uniform, the hair, never attractive.
Years later, she was far more attractive.
But she recently appeared on Lore Reloaded's channel looking fine.
By and large, Ezri Dax can be summed up as cute.
One of the reasons I really like this scene is that it's kind of a nod to the fans themselves - Garak is virtually repeating every fan complaint about a character who'd only been in the series (by this point) for about five episodes.
2Scribble 3 actually. And this was her first episode on DS9.
maybe first episode on the station but she had at least 2 episodes prior to this one.... she first appeared outside sisko's fathers place and then they spent another episode uncovering the orb, she didnt arrive on the station until sisko came back... so in this clip where she is clearly on the station thus it couldnt of been her first episode on the show.
terrey farrel made a good business decision to leave though
Matthew Kuba yeah, during negotiations for the last season she didn't like what she was offered. Some of the others could go and do other projects and stuff but she wasn't allowed. She had to take the deal or leave, so she left. Apparently it was all Rick Berman's fault
@@sarahkinsey5434
Solid recovery for DS9 though
I think a phaser would have done less damage.
Every word he said was true. Jadzia was everything he said she was and Ezri is everything he said she is and held zero back. That is what made DS9 different. Troi, I think, would try to read his feelings and may be scared off!
You can't compare Ezri to Jadzia. Jadzia had extensive training on how to be a symbiont host. She was always confident in herself.
Ezri had no experience in being a joined Trill, she didn't even want to be a joined Trill, she was fresh the Academy. Still not sure about herself, or her place in the galaxy.
@@Locutus Of course not. I know.
Half the time Garak wasn't talking about Ezri, he was talking about himself.
TGGeko Ehh, I don't think this was really projection; just inherrent defense mechanisms at work.
Garak had a horrible life from childhood onwards and survived by both compartmentalizing his emotional scars and actively stopping anyone from getting near them.
His first line of defense when he's in full control is pleasant congeleality mixed with well fabricated lies to placate others (his spycraft training at work). If that fails (or if he's been made more vunerable by one of his flaws), he resorts to cruelty and biting critisism; typically using information he's built up of someone's psyche for maximum effect.
He *KNEW* Ezri had feelings of inadequacy as a host and used that to get her to back off.
Garak is usually talking about himself, under the guise of talking about other things. And when he wants to talk about other things, he does so by talking about other other things.
I thought he said to spare him your insipid psychobabble?
@@Mentatskillz I don't see him in this comment chain. Do you? :P
Precisely. He's a sociopath. That's what they fucking do.
Ezri's welcome to DS9, home to aliens with broken childhoods and low-functioning personality disorders. First up: A lesson in frustrated love, rage and cruelty, as only a glassy-eyed Explosive Sadist can teach it.
at least he wasn't unkind.
@@GestapoPussyRanch
Garak always did have a gift for ironic understatement. This scene compares to the time years earlier when Bashir tried to help Garak and received a disillusioning diatribe for his trouble.
What makes Garak's words so destructive in this scene is that he's speaking honestly....( a rarity for the character ) Garak of all people knows that honesty is very volatile and extremely potent.
A brutally honest statement is easily one of most destructive things you can say to another person. Most of us will put up our emotional shields once someone starts cursing, using slurs or making threats.. but honesty is something that we innately accept.. it's something that cuts to the core.
Use extreme caution when dispensing the truth. Unfiltered it can end careers, friendships, marriages, even lives.
This is why I have issues expressing my anger
So very true. Add to it all his emotional frailty at the time and you can see why he blew up. Poor guy.
Yeah i gotta work on that...
Yes. Good writers, right?
I would make an opposite suggestion - stop being a pussy and teach yourself to be capable of accepting honesty and truth of others.
That said, there are different ways of being honest and it, like any kind of communication, must be handled properly. TNG was heavily about this, Picard was the master of such communication and others were VERY good too.
Technically he was being truthful with his 'Now get out of here before I say something unkind'. From most Cardassian's perspective, and especially someone as flawed as Garak, showing someone their flaws so they may improve themselves is a kindness.
I certainly agree with that perception. Showing someone their weaknesses can be most helpful in helping them better themselves. Its something that should be done far more often, I suspect.
I know people like this. They know where all your closely hidden buttons are and if you tick them off they'll push them without a second thought.
@J.L.W I was a pushover until my boss tried to end my career, so I ended his. Now I emulate JR Ewing and Lionel Luthor to survive.
I like this scene. Wish I could find a video of the scene where Garak finally tells her the reason behind his clausterphobia attacks.
MalzraAirwynn Hrm, I might upload that on my new channel.
MalzraAirwynn Is this the one? watch?v=FW9PsxYVZjc
This link doesn't work anymore... plz re link :)
Link works for me. Verified using incognito mode as well.
Jesus, Garak...
i kinda wish the series lasted a little longer so we could see a little more character development on ezri. ezri wasn't around till the last season so if the series lasted a season or two longer i bet we could see some more development in ezri and it wouldn't make her look and sound like a counselor who is a girly miss two shoes that really isn't starfleet material.
"I'm about to end this trill's whole career" - Garak
Deep Space Nine is the best Trek
So true.
Well, no more caffeine for you...
I really liked Ezri. She had some really tough shoes to fill, but I think they did a great job with her.
I disagree. She was a poor, "replacement," for Jadzia.
Umm ... What series were *you* watching, TheMythof Feminism?
She should have laughed, turned on her heel and while fondling a garment near the door retorted: "Why, youre just a big softie arent you Garak? [pause] You dropped a stitch here. Come see me when you want to talk." Then left.
@Roger Scott Cathey: heel* (not "heal") 🤔
@@pablohammerly448 : ah yes, thanks!
I forget, was this before or after Garak was quivering neurotically in a Dominion prison lamenting how his daddy wasn't nice?
Garak WAS being kind--in his own way. Ezri needed to hear some pretty harsh truths about herself. What Garak told her was exactly how she was. He told her what she needed to hear.
He was talking to himself without realizing it.
No he didn't do it be kind. He did it because hurting her distracted him from his own suffering momentarily.
Sometimes the truth hurts. Torturous as it may be, she did need to hear that. Snaps her back into reality and out of Dax's 300 year arrogance.
“Spare me your insipid psychobabble.”
I’m stealing that line
I have used that one a few times my self
Bro don’t say that in real life you’ll sound like a redditor you are not garak
Harsh, but unfortunately it did have to be said. Ezri ultimately grew up, but it took some time, and Garak probably helped her in the end.
Ultimately, they helped each other, even if it wasn't in a convenient little package
He was only hard on her because he knew she needed it.
Naaaaa-that is psycho babble. Garek was hardcore, uncensored truthful. He did hold back a little for her.
Problem with Ezri was that she was an ensign, fresh out of SF Medical... Usually they need to work under someone else's tutelage to become experience. She wasn't experienced.
@@Locutus In hindsight, I liked Ezri more than Jadzia. It took a while as I said, but in the end she was more grounded. Jadzia could be a raving narcissist at times.
@@petrus4 and Ezri was a raving narcissist all the time.
Hell, I'm not sure that her brother was guilty and not her for that Murder...
Ezri should of wished Garak happy 30th birthday instead
The thing is, he wasn't wrong about her. This was probably the turning point for her character, where she started to learn to make her own way.
Ezri thought she was Therapist Level G(uinan) for a moment, gets destroyed by +1000% reflection damage.
Indeed!
Guinan could take Q.
Yeah Garrick the person who has the Memories and experience of several people in her head couldn’t possibly start to understand what you are going through
...aaaand she hides in the place Jadzia was murdered. When it rains...
Sticks and Stones might break bones...but Garak weilds words like a quantum torpedo
it may be cruel but it was also all true and exactly what she needed to hear
Man I don't remember Garek being so cruel. I mean give Ezri a break, she never had the training to be a symbiote. Damn Garek, I thought you were a good bad guy
I love garak. that was SAVAGE
So a Cardassian walks into a psychiatrist's office...
thatsthejoke.jpg
Garak always falls on the floor after shouting. It's his spy body's defense mechanism, preventing him from making too much noise.
1:35 Wow. Garak really knew Jadzia.
Man Garak really must have wanted to mate with Ezri bad.
Weird thing is, she still helped, even though he claimed not to want any help. Because what he needed was to vent.
well this hits close to home. great acting and as real an interaction ive ever seen on a tv program.
The thing is his description of Jadzia is so apt it encompasses her traits so well
1:43 ... damn what a performance by Robinson. That knockout blow right there.
This is nice Garak.
You don't want to see mad Garak.
Don't cry, Nicole de Boer. Garak said my pants made my butt look fat.
reading these comments, i'd like to point out garrak is the only one who did her a solid, here and when she felt incapable, he gave her that push
no one else, she doubted herself, was probably the only person who hadn't come to terms with the fact shes in the effective middle of a warzone
then we have garrak who points this out to her, in the only way really that was gonna help. when he gets oddly uncharactaristically upset about the deaths of fellow cardassians cause of his work decoding whatever it was, comms? he, a former obsiandian order member, who killed a great many, who just a year earlier blew up a romulan ambassador if it was nothing.
he knows fine well what hes saying and why hes saying it to her.
find the full of this and i beleive the next episode, he has this oddly satisfied smile at the end after ezri starts coming around
Just when you couldnt love Garak more… he still shocks you!
Most trill move on from previous lives and the people that were in them. Ezri is constantly living with the people who are still mourning the loss of someone they loved, who she didn't even know, but has her memories, part of her expecting them to treat her like an old friend and in some ways they are complete strangers and then they try to treat her like she's not Jadzia, but then they'll be reminded that she has a little but of Jadzia in her. It must be overwhelming and actress really shows it when she breaks down in the spot where Jadzia died.
As large as the Federation is, why could they not send this woman to serve someplace else. Not to the place where her predecessor had friends and family.
Garak was right, he has ALOT of baggage to unload and this ..thing.. calling herself Dax is nowhere near qualified to help him. Deanna Troi would have a hard time getting Garak fixed even after years. She did what most would figure her to do in that situation, run off and cry in a corner because someone was mean to her.
I feel so sorry for Ezri in this scene, she just wanted to help and she gets bashed
+no1reallycaresabout2
Not just that. Just imagine what was she going through. Her whole life was put upside down. She didn't have any training to be joined and because of all that she lost herself, her personality. Half of the time she didn't know who's life she was living. Ezri's , Jadzia's, Curzon's, it's no wonder she was so scared and confused. And of course there was that problem with Worf also, so when you put that all together she was handling herself remarkably well all things considering.
2 rules for helping others:
1) Only help others after you have helped yourself.
2) Only save those who want to save themselves.
You don't understand...
Exactly, a do-gooder who doesn't know when to mind her own business.
But the fact of the matter is: She had no business counseling anyone, seeing as she was a confused and emotional mess.
Oof! That was like challenging the end boss before you've leveled up enough to prevail. It only ends one way.
Savagery level: Elim Garak on a bad day (AKA just go to a chapel and cry, it will save time.)
That's not Ezri vs Garak.
That's Garak destroys Ezri!
Garak: Now get out of here before I say something unkind.
He already did say something unkind. Calling Ezri pathetic.
Sometimes, the truth hurts.
He knew what he was doing by pushing her beyond herself.
He was miles ahead of everyone
Farrell was a very limited actress. She had a nice face but that was not enough to hold her for more than 2 or 3 seasons. She was boring. Ezri was bright, young, funny. Finally some lightness in deep space. I wish she was there earlier. So we could see her mature to a fine woman. I think she's adorable.
Yes, Garak tears Ezri to shreds here, but that’s not what I love about this scene. When he says “I KNEW Jadzia, she was vital, alive, she owned herself”, he truly respected Dax, even though they never had an obvious on-screen friendship.
It's a shame I can't find the first scene where they spoke. She basically accidentally psychoanalyzes him on their first meeting, without even trying to. it must've been frustrating for Garak for someone else so green and innocent to blunder into his life and guess his problem so accurately. Likely impacted how he treats her here.
"Now get out of here....before I say something unkind." Man. If that stuff before wasn't unkind, I'd hate to see how much deeper he could dig that dagger.
This is a Man, suffering grief, the need to keep busy…..do your chores Elim
In a future episode of Picard I want to see Garak and what happens to Cardassia.
Ouch! He absolutely wrecked her without even raising his voice.
Garak was one of my favorite charaters in DS9, but this is one of the instances that I wanted to punch him myself. Even if the truth can be a necessary evil to help someone grow and understand, there are times when you can go too far. This was one of those times.
And yet, even if the truth can be harsh as ground glass glued on heavy sandpaper, it often is what's needed to give someone the impetus to move forwards and better themselves. Yes, Garak did drop the heavy end of the hammer on Ezri, but she did eventually work out her personal/personality problems and became a better officer and woman for it.
There's an old axiom that says, "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar", but quite often it's "vinegar" that will cleanse the soul and give you a fresh start.
I think Garak was under way more stress than he was letting on to everybody. If the Cardassians are anything like humans, the hot build-up from such negative emotions could eventually brim over and blow off, affecting everybody all around them.
I wonder if Bashir took a beating from him afterwards. He can be gray area character, but everyone seems to forgive him afterwards....well, except Dukat :(
Well, he wasn't wrong.
Garak's speech (minus the parts about the Dominion) should be memorised by unwilling patients everywhere. Lol
Jesus, Garak, dial it back a bit.
I feel bad for Ezri. She's probably in her early 20s and has to perform such heavy duties without proper training. Plus this rude guy Garak.
Garak's version of "unkind" must be something hurtful AND untrue. More often than one might expect, saying something hurtful but true isn't necessarily unkind, but most certainly uncomfortable. Getting the truth, ugly and stinging as it may be, can help to steer oneself in the right direction. Provided, of course, that you get any additional help necessary to do so.
Someone said "If the truth is recognized for what it is, the source is irrelevant."
I think that for the sake of processing the truth itself, that is true. But if an enemy of yours is trying to use the truth to hurt and dissuade you from a proper course of action or something else bad, you should fight fire with fire and respond with a greater truth. Classic example is: "I am not very good at this yet, that is true, but I am not a quitter!" The former truth will cease to be a fact given time and effort, but the latter has the potential to stay true for the rest of the speaker's life.
Garak was not an enemy here, though. Here, he was a victim who quite justly, yet abrasively, rejected Ezri's attempt to help him. He didn't say that to discourage her from becoming better at it, just that she, at the time, was unsuitable for the role she was attempting to fulfill. The part where he insinuated that she was less worth than Jadzia as a person was not true on a factual level, but from a personal viewpoint. He was truthful to his own feelings about her, and her predecessor, but it came out much harsher than necessary due to his anguish and stress, from other sources than the loss of Jadzia, he was desperately trying to contain and handle.
So summarize, I feel Garak was wrong to word things the way he did, but he was not wrong on the matter at large either.
What do we learn from this? Never bring a plastic butter knife to a chainsaw fight. I think she learned it.
Totally the inspiration for Malcolm Tucker.
Ouch and damn, that was pure unadulterated savagery on all cylinders, I wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry in all honesty
I absolutely ADORE Garak, but I think he was incorrect here, due no doubt to his own pain. But treating people this way is not normally his style, and his lesson to Ezri could have been better taught another way. And he of all people normally would know that.
+Mary Knasinski He was giving her the blunt truth. His own personal suffering isn't the top priority since there was much more important things, such as saving Cardassia from their own destruction. And he was right. Hundred of millions of Cardassians died as a result of the Dominion War.
When you accidentally speak for half the fandom...
This was me the first time I faced Akuma in SSF2 Turbo, thought I was ready but I too ended up in a temple weeping.
Treating a starfleet officer in that matter is not allowed in my starfleet
Who has a sharper tongue, wit, and all around tough and devious dude other than Garak? I identify very closely with Garak.
The "Now get out of here before I say something unkind" bit was the part that hit the hardest to me.
I had forgotten where one of my all time favorite "quotes/phrases" came from: "spare me your insipid psycho babble."
And later, "Spare me your insufferable Federation optimism."
I expected her to pull a pocket phaser not go cry. That was a twist
What a well acted scene, especially by Robinson, toward the development of both characters. Just gripping.
Gul'dukat - became cult leader
Damar - Alkoholic
Garak - Claustrophobia
I guess Cardassians simply have no healthy way of dealing with stress?
Garak mentions his father before he unleashes his tirade, and at that moment he displays how Enabran Tain would probably have spoken to him when he was displeased with him. That's the way I read this scene anyway but I am only on page five of the Intergalactic Pyshcobabel handbook
You should've told him you'd never buy clothes from him again.
I just saw this episode, and I could feel how hurt Ezri is in this scene. I just wanted to give her a shoulder to cry on. 😔