@@basherboo He also worked with Capaldi, didn't he? He seemed to be one of their go-to character actors. Am I right that they used the same prosthetic teeth for the Trickster as the ones he wore as the Futurekind in "Utopia"?
@@PenneySounds I'm not sure. I know he played a timelord called trave who may have been in one of capaldis episodes but otherwise it would be a no as his main characters were the trickster who was basically just for Sarah Jane and then the utopia chieftan. Although I think you are correct that the original teeth of the trickster were the same as utopia I think they got changed out after a while
I never really understood why beings of chaos would destroy, destruction and death give way to order shouldn't they be aiming for creation and birth? More things tend to cause more chaos.
@@Raximus3000 destruction gives space, space gets filled with noise, noise starts adhering to order. New things and creation gives the most chaos, but only when that new thing has the space. Otherwise a new thing will get absorbed into order, and make the order stronger. Even new creations of destruction will follow that pattern. Once you break through a glass ceiling, the next one is harder to break. So yes, new things bring chaos, but only to a ever limiting extend. But destruction, destruction assures a period of chaos, and makes it easier for the young new orders to be disrupted sooner. Hence why destruction brings better chaos than creation.
@@Raximus3000 I would think the perfect yin yang of chaos and order would be a snow flake. Random birth design of perfect order then ultimately melting away forever lost.
I remember watching it when I was younger thinking it was the scariest thing ever! I properly believed him when he said he died from that fall. But I look at it now and it looks so tame 😂
I didn't even realise until I was making this that the Trickster is an Eternal. That when the Doctor called him an "eternal exile", that was literal. He even calls humans "ephemerals".
because it wasnt really a kids show, sure it was aimed at kids and was hosted on CBBC but it did explore more mature themes and was more for teenagers aswell as doctor who fans, the amount of references between torchwood, doctor who and the SJA is reason enough to watch all of them and rewatch them to catch references that you didnt realise before
@@RoboDoesEdits sure I get that, but it was on a childrens tv channel during the day, as well as being marketed to children with child main characters. There's a reason most british people around my age (16-17), including me, were "traumatised" by this show. Bradley Walsh in clown makeup haunts my nightmares.
@@jeffmoo9235 I mean, it's pretty mild compared to Doctor Who itself, which for some reason British people still call a children's programme. They even reused the false teeth for the Trickster from the much creepier looking character the same actor played in "Utopia"
@@PenneySounds sure, people call doctor who a kids show but it isn't on a childrens tv channel in the middle of the day, and it's always advertised as to be watched with parents. sja was just straight marketed as just for kids, which it is not.
This video made me realize how much I'd like to see the Trickster return. It would have to be in a very behind the scenes way, of course, perhaps a season arc. Or maybe he's just in a box at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.
The problem with the Trickster coming back is that his creator, Gareth Roberts, is a well known bigot at this point and given writers need to ask creators before using recurring characters (eg. Chibnall asking Russell before using the Judoon or asking Moffat for the Weeping Angels) I can’t see the BBC wanting to reach out to Roberts in any capacity. Even if it meant bringing back a fan-favourite villain.
It had the advantage of having been filmed after. It was the last thing Tennant filmed as the character prior to returning for the 50th. But because it would release much earlier than his regeneration story, they could drop a tease like that in it.
I am begging for RTD to bring back the trickster for absolutely no other reason than I want it turned into a figure. Either character or eaglemoss. I just need this guy in my house 🤣
Because of its lower budget, there are a lot of times when SJA felt a lot like classic Who. Particularly Tennant's episode, was was all set in one location. It felt like the Tenth Doctor starring in a 70s episode.
I love the idea that every eldritch beast in Doctor Who knows each other, somehow. Like that short story where Fenric and the Toymaker played a game of chess!
@@leeci33 I can't see much connection between the Trickster and the Monks. The Monks probably wish they could actually change timelines like the Trickster does, instead of just manipulating people into believing everything has changed. And while the Trickster does require someone's agreement, he doesn't require consent, and has no issues with threatening and scaring and manipulating people into their agreement. The Monks require genuine consent out of love. It's an interesting concept, but not one I could really make a video from.
Not only that but he made Angela choose as a child. A child and in fear of dying. Who wouldn't take that deal whe your seconds from death and your 13 year old mind has only seconds to think of the consequences.
@@123apacino Even Krizlok the Graske fell for a similar trick. Nothing like being in immediate mortal danger to make someone desperate enough to do something stupid.
I like to think that Donna was targeted because of what the Trickster learned from Sarah Jane. But it could just be that the Trickster's brigade are all over the place and they can sniff out people with potential to create chaos they can feed off of. Either way, they bit off more than they could chew with Donna, and I wish the Doctor had mentioned that to the Trickster when they finally met. Davies seems to really like the Trickster as a villain. I'm crossing my fingers that he'll do something super ambitious with the 60th special, and have the Trickster create a timeline in which the First Doctor never left Gallifrey, showing us each Doctor in sequence living an unremarkable Gallifreyan life, as the universe falls to pieces without them.
@@PenneySounds Honestly they're either missing out or just saving the trickster, because think about it. In alot of the series/seasons theres always a big bad being built up, but the doctor hardly faces the Trickster's Brigade and The Trickster himself, itd be insane to see him in the show as a villain in a mega plot
He was actually there was a wanted poster for him in series 8 during capaldi era and tenth Doctor said he faced members of trickster team during series 4
the trickster was such a cool villain. It sucks that we never saw him more outside of SJA, but the brief mentions in the main show and in Torchwood is still so cool. I'd love to see him again
I just noticed that wiping the Doctor from history was also the Great Intelligences' scheme in the Series 7 finale, sort of. It was more turning the Doctor's victories into defeats so probably not related to the Trickster, although one wonders if mayhaps the Great Intelligence found itself in the employ of the Trickster after its initial defeat and was sent out with the task of causing chaos in the Doctor's timestream.
@@ASS-tb3mq i think its more the trickster aint got a body alot of his plans work on manipulation the only thing he could possibly offer the doctor wouldent work cus the doctor is fully aware of who and more exactly what the trickster is if your ancient as hell nearly as old as the unvierse would you try and go vs a guy who killed his own species along with half of the universe in the time war and is willing to at his worst commit multiple genocides or would you aim to manipulate people who are below the age of 100 basically infants on a galactic timescale. Plus its been hinted the trickster does keep track of the doctor's travels which means he is aware who the doctor has defeated over his life so he knows the doctor has taken on old one's the eternals and many other dark times or pre universe beings he even took out the supposed devil of creation if you saw a guy running around dressed like a nutter running around taking out your equals and people 100x stronger then you woulden't you play it safe
Personally think the GA and the Trickster are probably part of the same species of pre-universal Lovecraftian Abominations, or at least, the Trickster is an extremely powerful rouge Eternal who decides to take the Eternal's games much, much further, and perhaps worships the Old Ones and their methods. The Pantheon of Discord could be an alternate name for the Great Old Ones, and the similarity in methods to both the Celestial Toymaker and Fenric (in their use of games, tricks and playing with people for their own ends) rather firmly stamps him in their vamp IMO. I love the Doctor Who universe. Who would have thought this Saturday night family show would have produced such a menagerie of wonderful gods and demons, and that a fuckinh CBBC kids show would produce one of the vilest and best of them.
When telling Torchwood about the Void Ship in the episode "Army of Ghosts", he mentions the Eternals as well, saying they refer to the Void as 'the Howling'.
Which makes me think of "Love and Monsters" when they said the Doctor failed to save Elton's mother from a living shadow that escaped from "The Howling Halls". And here we have the Doctor saying he's fought the Trickster's shadows.
villains who desire chaos are often interesting because their goal is very simple and allows for a lot of flexibility when it comes to characterisation, so its easier to make them interesting
@@DuelaDent52RTD stated in an interview that certain pantheons will be returning. So I’m highly inclined to believe he’s referring to the Pantheon of Discord. I hope we see Trickster again, there’s so much you can do with a character as powerful as he is.
Okay so after watching the newest episode, the music that first comes out of ruby is the same as the Tricksters theme, a unique and somewhat forgotten tone, but it’s funny when you write down all the similarities/connections so far and then cross ref with TSJA trickster stuff… either it’s a HUGE reach, or a flippin HUGE connection.
Timestamps of where each clip comes from 0:00 - Whatever Happened to Sarah Jane (Sarah Jane Adventures) 2:46 - Turn Left (Doctor Who) 5:04 - Immortal Sins (Torchwood) 6:38 - Wedding of Sarah Jane (Sarah Jane Adventures) 6:55 - Enlightenment (Classic Doctor Who) 7:28 - Can You Hear Me? (Doctor Who) 7:53 - The Celestial Toymaker (Classic Doctor Who) 8:03 - Wedding of Sarah Jane (Sarah Jane Adventures) 8:43 - The Armageddon Factor (Classic Doctor Who) 9:44 - Wedding of Sarah Jane (Sarah Jane Adventures) 10:04 - The End of Time (Doctor Who) 10:10 - Wedding of Sarah Jane (Sarah Jane Adventures) 10:36 - - Whatever Happened to Sarah Jane (Sarah Jane Adventures) 11:29 - Wedding of Sarah Jane (Sarah Jane Adventures) 12:00 - Mawdryn Undead (Classic Doctor Who)
If the trickster is not the one who waits or at the very least not involved with Ruby's history (like being her mum) I going to want a refund or a stern word with Russell
That's super interesting! I certainly can't think of any examples. Not enemies, but Arcanteenians appear in SJA and Torchwood, but not Doctor Who as far as I'm aware. Is there anything else only the spinoffs share?
@@dominickeijzer5844 Yeah, I was thinking that, but for the life of me I couldn't remember if it was any more then Gwen standing amongst flying papers, but I guess not.
This makes me really want The Trickster or something related to it to be the next big antagonist. Feels like it’s had a lot of really good subtle build up over the years.
At 8:37, we hear The Doctor's theme as composed by Murray Gold. When I watch this episode of The Sarah Jane Adventures, this moment always sends chills up my spine.
The shadows could refer to the thing that killed Elton's mother in "Love And Monsters" DOCTOR: There was a shadow in your house. A living shadow in the darkness. An elemental shade had escaped from the Howling Halls. I stopped it, but I wasn't in time to save her. I'm sorry. "Howling Halls" could bring things back around to the Eternals again: DOCTOR: This is a Void Ship. YVONNE: And what is that? DOCTOR: Well, it's impossible for starters. I always thought it was just a theory, but it's a vessel designed to exist outside time and space, travelling through the Void. RAJESH: And what's the Void? DOCTOR: The space between dimensions. There's all sorts of realities around us, different dimensions, billions of parallel universes all stacked up against each other. The Void is the space in between, containing absolutely nothing. Imagine that. Nothing. No light, no dark, no up, no down, no life, no time. Without end. My people called it the Void. The Eternals call it the Howling. But some people call it Hell.
one of doctor who's main villians should've been the trickster and i think RTD is going to explore the trickster more in the new era, he's had many years to think up new ideas
I didn't expect that just changing the thumbnail of a nearly year old video would make it hit the algorithm like this. But it seems it's being recommended to a lot of people who don't know about The Sarah Jane Adventures or Torchwood. Hopefully this will lead to people checking out more of the wider Whoniverse than just the regular episodes of the main series.
Every couple weeks there's another huge surge to this video but not to the others in this series, so here's the playlist for those who haven't seen the other videos: th-cam.com/play/PLvHBrKjnqU7lZdRrJirLqCR7jMFAnfG1c.html
The trickster is the one character in all of dr who that we as fans know nothing about besides what they have told us we also know nothing of their true motives or goals besides what they have done already
that man deserves an award for his acting and to think, that was a KIDS show! mental! has a genuine presence makes your hairs on your arms stand on end
I was always aware of the Trickster popping up and was always interested by the Eternals but I never realised the Tricker was part of the Eternals. I really love this subplot. If only Chibnul expanded into this instead of creating the Division. Also, I'm not sure if this is relevant but I feel like the Shakri could also be a break off from the Eternals. They also exist outside of time and manipulate the universe. If you want reference, watch The Power of Three from 33:53
The Trickster would be welcome to Doctor Who as a main villain. By far and away, one of the most fascinating characters of all. Imagine how good it would be for the 14th Doctor to face off against The Trickster.
The way I see it is that the "Trickster" needs Sarah Jane as a latch pin of sorts to get at The Doctor so thanks to Sarah Jane's friend he was able to get "his" hooks into the Doctors "timeline" of sorts, now this is where it gets a little "timey wimmey" on it he uses Jane as a lence to get to the Current Doctor then uses him as a "line starter" and goes backwards all the way to when he's first introduced in the Doctor Who Universe it's a brilliant plan and there's no real way that the Doctor can stop him unless he can save Sarah Jane then maybe we have to watch the current run and see...
The number of times I've watched both Doctor Who and Sarah Jane Adventures, I never connected that the Trickster was talking about the gate in the episode the end of time
They had the advantage that this story was written after that one. Tennant had almost completely finished filming for "The End of Time", except for a few effects shots. So they could drop in some foreshadowing.
It goes deeper than I'm quite sure how to make sense of. What's the Trickster's connection with the Black Guardian? I don't know. But there certainly seems to be one.
@@PenneySounds You know how in like Greek Mythology when the God's pissed about they'd create other mythological creatures? They made creatures out of clay, some formed from the flesh cut from their body, some from unholy intimacy, like Cyclops, Centaurs, Sirens etc. My head canon is its a bit like that. The God's being the Guardians of Time and the Eternals being their demi-god like children created in one way or another. Then The Pantheon of Discord are all specifically the bastard children of the Black Guardian created by him either accidentally or on purpose over his unimaginably long life. Chaos creates discord. Then obviously the brigade are beings or creatures that the Trickster has recruited over the years to help him with his schemes.
There are some interesting references to Clyde and Rani in the video game "The Lonely Assassins". Apparently Clyde turned his experience with homelessness into a lifelong vocation to help the homeless. And I think he's still trying to find "Ellie". Rani was who Larry Nightingale ended up sharing his Wester Drumlins story with and you can read her article about it in the game. I highly recommend playing it.
Thank you so much. You’ve gained a subscriber with this on point video. Hopefully the return of the Toymaker in the 60th makes way for some more incredible continuity.
Since we're getting a new Toymaker in the 60th Anniversary. Hopefully that means The Doctor might face off against the entire Trickster's Brigade at some point.
A couple of them only seem to be connected. There isn't a firm connection between the Trickster and the Black Guardian, but the similarity is too remarkable to ignore.
This is my godfather! He's told me he loved being able to work with Tenant
Paul Marc Davis is your godfather?
@@PenneySounds Yes indeed!
@@basherboo He also worked with Capaldi, didn't he? He seemed to be one of their go-to character actors.
Am I right that they used the same prosthetic teeth for the Trickster as the ones he wore as the Futurekind in "Utopia"?
@@PenneySounds I'm not sure. I know he played a timelord called trave who may have been in one of capaldis episodes but otherwise it would be a no as his main characters were the trickster who was basically just for Sarah Jane and then the utopia chieftan. Although I think you are correct that the original teeth of the trickster were the same as utopia I think they got changed out after a while
@@PenneySounds if I remember rightly they may even have them on show at the doctor who exhibit in Wales
The Trickster must have been FEASTING when River broke that fixed point in time by not shooting the Doctor and we got that weird ass chaos timeline.
Maybe that's why he hasn't appeared in ages 😂My man is just full
I never really understood why beings of chaos would destroy, destruction and death give way to order shouldn't they be aiming for creation and birth? More things tend to cause more chaos.
@@Raximus3000 destruction gives space, space gets filled with noise, noise starts adhering to order. New things and creation gives the most chaos, but only when that new thing has the space. Otherwise a new thing will get absorbed into order, and make the order stronger. Even new creations of destruction will follow that pattern. Once you break through a glass ceiling, the next one is harder to break.
So yes, new things bring chaos, but only to a ever limiting extend. But destruction, destruction assures a period of chaos, and makes it easier for the young new orders to be disrupted sooner.
Hence why destruction brings better chaos than creation.
@@Raximus3000 I would think the perfect yin yang of chaos and order would be a snow flake. Random birth design of perfect order then ultimately melting away forever lost.
It depends if he can feast on chaos he didn't cause
Peter falling down the stairs looks like an advert for an insurance company lmao
Have you had an accident that wasn't your fault? 🤣
a trip or fall? Then call Injury lawyers for you now. We work on a no win, no fee claim. And you keep 100% of the compensation.
I remember watching it when I was younger thinking it was the scariest thing ever! I properly believed him when he said he died from that fall. But I look at it now and it looks so tame 😂
He should have had Life Alert.
Reminds me of the IT Crowd 0118 999 881 999 119 7253 - th-cam.com/video/ab8GtuPdrUQ/w-d-xo.html
I didn't even realise until I was making this that the Trickster is an Eternal. That when the Doctor called him an "eternal exile", that was literal. He even calls humans "ephemerals".
Neither did I!
It makes so much sense! I love it when the New Series touches on these older ideas.
That’s crazy never thought he was an eternal
What are the eternals?
@@Dalekscientist God-Like beings who mostly appear in the Expanded Universe Stuff. They're to Time Lords what Time Lords are to human.
The Triskster's design is so raw I don't understand how they got away with making him look like that in a kids show
because it wasnt really a kids show, sure it was aimed at kids and was hosted on CBBC but it did explore more mature themes and was more for teenagers aswell as doctor who fans, the amount of references between torchwood, doctor who and the SJA is reason enough to watch all of them and rewatch them to catch references that you didnt realise before
@@RoboDoesEdits sure I get that, but it was on a childrens tv channel during the day, as well as being marketed to children with child main characters. There's a reason most british people around my age (16-17), including me, were "traumatised" by this show. Bradley Walsh in clown makeup haunts my nightmares.
@@jeffmoo9235 I mean, it's pretty mild compared to Doctor Who itself, which for some reason British people still call a children's programme.
They even reused the false teeth for the Trickster from the much creepier looking character the same actor played in "Utopia"
@@PenneySounds sure, people call doctor who a kids show but it isn't on a childrens tv channel in the middle of the day, and it's always advertised as to be watched with parents. sja was just straight marketed as just for kids, which it is not.
@@jeffmoo9235 It was more for teens. The Harry Potter audience.
This video made me realize how much I'd like to see the Trickster return. It would have to be in a very behind the scenes way, of course, perhaps a season arc. Or maybe he's just in a box at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.
Ah, someone else has watched Farewell Sarah Jane!
The problem with the Trickster coming back is that his creator, Gareth Roberts, is a well known bigot at this point and given writers need to ask creators before using recurring characters (eg. Chibnall asking Russell before using the Judoon or asking Moffat for the Weeping Angels) I can’t see the BBC wanting to reach out to Roberts in any capacity. Even if it meant bringing back a fan-favourite villain.
@@isabelh5561 I think it's a courtesy these days, unlike with characters like K9 or the Yeti, but that is a point.
@@isabelh5561 I doubt Davies considers Roberts to be a bigot
@@isabelh5561 he's a bigot? I didn't know that damn... That's ruined Trickster for me
I never realized that SJA was teasing The End of Time before we knew anything about it.
It had the advantage of having been filmed after. It was the last thing Tennant filmed as the character prior to returning for the 50th. But because it would release much earlier than his regeneration story, they could drop a tease like that in it.
@@PenneySounds Didn’t expect to be learning something new about those shows today.
If RTD brings the trickster back in his new era, that'd make my life tbh
He's my favourite enemy
that could make for a really sweet and satisfying send off to sarah jane. Bring her companions back one last time
I am begging for RTD to bring back the trickster for absolutely no other reason than I want it turned into a figure. Either character or eaglemoss. I just need this guy in my house 🤣
@@obiwankenobi687 I just thought. He could use the trickster to retcon the timeless child.
@@nextgenkilla2140 RTD has already said he won't change anything Chibnall established in his run.
The Trickster was such a cool, mysterious, charismatic, underrated villain. There's so much you could do with the concept.
exactly. it's paramount that he returns.
it's amazing how SJA being basically a kids show ended up being a catalyst for a ton of classic who references
Because of its lower budget, there are a lot of times when SJA felt a lot like classic Who. Particularly Tennant's episode, was was all set in one location. It felt like the Tenth Doctor starring in a 70s episode.
@@PenneySounds What's SJA?
The Sarah Jane Adventures, one of the 3 official spinoff series that have been made so far. The others are Torchwood and Class.
I love the idea that every eldritch beast in Doctor Who knows each other, somehow.
Like that short story where Fenric and the Toymaker played a game of chess!
i love tom baker pretending to go crazy with power to freak out romana. fucking hilarious
now thats acting
I loved the Torchwood inclusion. I always loved how Russel put that in.
Which episode was that?
@@blaQI_roch Series 4 Episode 7: Immortal Sins
@@adnandlala , Thanks! /hero
@@blaQI_roch thats their only mention in the episode btw
@@Lee-xm1xk /high five
The Trickster really needs to learn a thing or two from the Monks
"You act out of fear. Fear is not consent."
That’s where I thought you were going with this. I kept thinking I would see Bill Potts and the Monks tied in somehow.
Very cool video! Blew my mind!
@@leeci33 I can't see much connection between the Trickster and the Monks. The Monks probably wish they could actually change timelines like the Trickster does, instead of just manipulating people into believing everything has changed. And while the Trickster does require someone's agreement, he doesn't require consent, and has no issues with threatening and scaring and manipulating people into their agreement. The Monks require genuine consent out of love. It's an interesting concept, but not one I could really make a video from.
Not only that but he made Angela choose as a child. A child and in fear of dying. Who wouldn't take that deal whe your seconds from death and your 13 year old mind has only seconds to think of the consequences.
@@123apacino Even Krizlok the Graske fell for a similar trick. Nothing like being in immediate mortal danger to make someone desperate enough to do something stupid.
That kinda explains "Turn Left" now, and why that random woman wanted The Doctor gone now
I like to think that Donna was targeted because of what the Trickster learned from Sarah Jane. But it could just be that the Trickster's brigade are all over the place and they can sniff out people with potential to create chaos they can feed off of. Either way, they bit off more than they could chew with Donna, and I wish the Doctor had mentioned that to the Trickster when they finally met.
Davies seems to really like the Trickster as a villain. I'm crossing my fingers that he'll do something super ambitious with the 60th special, and have the Trickster create a timeline in which the First Doctor never left Gallifrey, showing us each Doctor in sequence living an unremarkable Gallifreyan life, as the universe falls to pieces without them.
@@PenneySounds that sounds epic, that would make an excellent story and especially a sixtieth anniversary special.
@@PenneySounds Honestly they're either missing out or just saving the trickster, because think about it.
In alot of the series/seasons theres always a big bad being built up, but the doctor hardly faces the Trickster's Brigade and The Trickster himself, itd be insane to see him in the show as a villain in a mega plot
Right!! Because it was all part of the plan from the trickster!!
@@zinoxechill agreed he’s never really faced the trickster one on one just in the wedding of Sarah Jane smith he faced him and had a brief chat
The Trickster episodes were probably some of the best stuff to come out of sarah jane adventures aswell as Androvax.
The one who waits, is almost there
*piano shuts*
We are definitely the ones who wait, waiting so many years for the trickster to finally show up in DW!
The trickster was hands down one of the scariest villains, and he wasn’t even in Doctor Who!
He was actually there was a wanted poster for him in series 8 during capaldi era and tenth Doctor said he faced members of trickster team during series 4
@@ASS-tb3mqbut it was never there ... Just passing stories
the trickster was such a cool villain. It sucks that we never saw him more outside of SJA, but the brief mentions in the main show and in Torchwood is still so cool. I'd love to see him again
The trickster is such an incredible character, worthy of the main show
I just noticed that wiping the Doctor from history was also the Great Intelligences' scheme in the Series 7 finale, sort of. It was more turning the Doctor's victories into defeats so probably not related to the Trickster, although one wonders if mayhaps the Great Intelligence found itself in the employ of the Trickster after its initial defeat and was sent out with the task of causing chaos in the Doctor's timestream.
hell the great intelligences henchmen in that episode even look like the trickster
@@jeffmoo9235 Yh but why didn’t the trickster show up in Doctor who is he scared of The Doctor or something
Unless the Trickster is the great intelligence
@@ASS-tb3mq i think its more the trickster aint got a body alot of his plans work on manipulation the only thing he could possibly offer the doctor wouldent work cus the doctor is fully aware of who and more exactly what the trickster is if your ancient as hell nearly as old as the unvierse would you try and go vs a guy who killed his own species along with half of the universe in the time war and is willing to at his worst commit multiple genocides or would you aim to manipulate people who are below the age of 100 basically infants on a galactic timescale. Plus its been hinted the trickster does keep track of the doctor's travels which means he is aware who the doctor has defeated over his life so he knows the doctor has taken on old one's the eternals and many other dark times or pre universe beings he even took out the supposed devil of creation if you saw a guy running around dressed like a nutter running around taking out your equals and people 100x stronger then you woulden't you play it safe
Personally think the GA and the Trickster are probably part of the same species of pre-universal Lovecraftian Abominations, or at least, the Trickster is an extremely powerful rouge Eternal who decides to take the Eternal's games much, much further, and perhaps worships the Old Ones and their methods. The Pantheon of Discord could be an alternate name for the Great Old Ones, and the similarity in methods to both the Celestial Toymaker and Fenric (in their use of games, tricks and playing with people for their own ends) rather firmly stamps him in their vamp IMO.
I love the Doctor Who universe. Who would have thought this Saturday night family show would have produced such a menagerie of wonderful gods and demons, and that a fuckinh CBBC kids show would produce one of the vilest and best of them.
When telling Torchwood about the Void Ship in the episode "Army of Ghosts", he mentions the Eternals as well, saying they refer to the Void as 'the Howling'.
Which makes me think of "Love and Monsters" when they said the Doctor failed to save Elton's mother from a living shadow that escaped from "The Howling Halls". And here we have the Doctor saying he's fought the Trickster's shadows.
The Doctor just said The Trickster is from the Pantheon of Discord ... trying to break into our universe. :O
You'll have to add the new toymaker stuff....I really enjoyed this, well put together. Thanks
All the trickster had to do was to go into peoples homes and steal just their left shoes. Chaos for years
hell if he went into the home of species with more than two feet, it would be unending!!
villains who desire chaos are often interesting because their goal is very simple and allows for a lot of flexibility when it comes to characterisation, so its easier to make them interesting
Lol Tom Baker with the Key of Time was hilarious. He just didn't give a shit and mocked it.
"My legions are coming."
- The Toymaker, Doctor Who and the Giggle
It's probably unlikely, but imagine if it's the Trickster and his Brigade...
The new disney plus trailer looks like it actually could have the trickster in!
Sadly, I doubt they’ll ever bring the Trickster back given he’s a creation of Gareth Roberts.
@@DuelaDent52RTD stated in an interview that certain pantheons will be returning. So I’m highly inclined to believe he’s referring to the Pantheon of Discord. I hope we see Trickster again, there’s so much you can do with a character as powerful as he is.
The new episode confirms they're bringing back to pantheon, so it's possible!
Okay so after watching the newest episode, the music that first comes out of ruby is the same as the Tricksters theme, a unique and somewhat forgotten tone, but it’s funny when you write down all the similarities/connections so far and then cross ref with TSJA trickster stuff… either it’s a HUGE reach, or a flippin HUGE connection.
these continuity edits are an incredible work of love. very impressive and so great to be able to sit back and enjoy the tour
THE ONE WHO WAITS
Timestamps of where each clip comes from
0:00 - Whatever Happened to Sarah Jane (Sarah Jane Adventures)
2:46 - Turn Left (Doctor Who)
5:04 - Immortal Sins (Torchwood)
6:38 - Wedding of Sarah Jane (Sarah Jane Adventures)
6:55 - Enlightenment (Classic Doctor Who)
7:28 - Can You Hear Me? (Doctor Who)
7:53 - The Celestial Toymaker (Classic Doctor Who)
8:03 - Wedding of Sarah Jane (Sarah Jane Adventures)
8:43 - The Armageddon Factor (Classic Doctor Who)
9:44 - Wedding of Sarah Jane (Sarah Jane Adventures)
10:04 - The End of Time (Doctor Who)
10:10 - Wedding of Sarah Jane (Sarah Jane Adventures)
10:36 - - Whatever Happened to Sarah Jane (Sarah Jane Adventures)
11:29 - Wedding of Sarah Jane (Sarah Jane Adventures)
12:00 - Mawdryn Undead (Classic Doctor Who)
If the trickster is not the one who waits or at the very least not involved with Ruby's history (like being her mum) I going to want a refund or a stern word with Russell
No.
Delivered her from the pantheon.
Rip
"Oh so scary for a kids show"
Lots of people out here obviously never experienced the terror of The Demon Headmaster growing up and it shows.
Even the Toymaker fears the Trickster... that's what he meant by "That's someone else's game" ❤
The one who waits?
The tricksters brigade is the only thing in the main show and both RTD spinoffs. No other enemy appeared in all 3.
That's super interesting! I certainly can't think of any examples. Not enemies, but Arcanteenians appear in SJA and Torchwood, but not Doctor Who as far as I'm aware. Is there anything else only the spinoffs share?
@@maniraptavia4008 The TARDIS. Of course, it only appeared in audio in Torchwood, but it counts.
@@dominickeijzer5844 Yeah, I was thinking that, but for the life of me I couldn't remember if it was any more then Gwen standing amongst flying papers, but I guess not.
@@maniraptavia4008 I mean, there was the noise.
@@dominickeijzer5844 True
This makes me really want The Trickster or something related to it to be the next big antagonist. Feels like it’s had a lot of really good subtle build up over the years.
The toy maker certainly did approve. With RTD back we need the trickster to be in an actual doctor who episode because that would go hard
At 8:37, we hear The Doctor's theme as composed by Murray Gold. When I watch this episode of The Sarah Jane Adventures, this moment always sends chills up my spine.
The doctors mention of Changelings in The Wedding of Sarah Jane Smith was a reference to an interactive game called Attack of the Graske from 2006
The shadows could refer to the thing that killed Elton's mother in "Love And Monsters"
DOCTOR: There was a shadow in your house. A living shadow in the darkness. An elemental shade had escaped from the Howling Halls. I stopped it, but I wasn't in time to save her. I'm sorry.
"Howling Halls" could bring things back around to the Eternals again:
DOCTOR: This is a Void Ship.
YVONNE: And what is that?
DOCTOR: Well, it's impossible for starters. I always thought it was just a theory, but it's a vessel designed to exist outside time and space, travelling through the Void.
RAJESH: And what's the Void?
DOCTOR: The space between dimensions. There's all sorts of realities around us, different dimensions, billions of parallel universes all stacked up against each other. The Void is the space in between, containing absolutely nothing. Imagine that. Nothing. No light, no dark, no up, no down, no life, no time. Without end. My people called it the Void. The Eternals call it the Howling. But some people call it Hell.
Holy shit, it would make sooo much sense to bring him back right now.
one of doctor who's main villians should've been the trickster and i think RTD is going to explore the trickster more in the new era, he's had many years to think up new ideas
@@jamesmayle3787 no
I wouldn't do too much of that thinking stuff if i were you
Trickster has an extremely good design, very well characterised. Terrified me as a kid
Man even within that like 30 second clip of Tom Baker I get why he's so many people's favorite Doctor
I didn't expect that just changing the thumbnail of a nearly year old video would make it hit the algorithm like this. But it seems it's being recommended to a lot of people who don't know about The Sarah Jane Adventures or Torchwood. Hopefully this will lead to people checking out more of the wider Whoniverse than just the regular episodes of the main series.
Popped up for me today lol
Every couple weeks there's another huge surge to this video but not to the others in this series, so here's the playlist for those who haven't seen the other videos:
th-cam.com/play/PLvHBrKjnqU7lZdRrJirLqCR7jMFAnfG1c.html
I still am looking to find the Sarah Jane adventures on dvd. The series was so good. They had it on prime for a while then got rid of it
Hope the Trickster returns with the whole Pantheon!
Please
I am almost certain he's coming back. He's probably the "oldest one" who Maestro talks about.
It's nice when writers of a long-running show are fans or grew up with said show
Bruh I had no idea it went this deep.
"The Toymaker would approve"
oh for f*ck's sake!
With the Pantheon, it would be a great time to bring the trickester back
this video might need an update in 5 weeks
Why?
russell really liked the tricksters character which brings me great hope that he'll be returning!
The trickster is the one character in all of dr who that we as fans know nothing about besides what they have told us we also know nothing of their true motives or goals besides what they have done already
And now David ((as Number 14) will finally battle The Toy Maker! Perhaps this can lead to Ncuti's Doctor to fight the rest of the Pantheon of Discord!
that man deserves an award for his acting and to think, that was a KIDS show! mental! has a genuine presence makes your hairs on your arms stand on end
I was always aware of the Trickster popping up and was always interested by the Eternals but I never realised the Tricker was part of the Eternals. I really love this subplot. If only Chibnul expanded into this instead of creating the Division.
Also, I'm not sure if this is relevant but I feel like the Shakri could also be a break off from the Eternals. They also exist outside of time and manipulate the universe. If you want reference, watch The Power of Three from 33:53
7:53 "The Toymaker would approve" I would say foreshadowing but this is Chibnails era
Chibnall might have shared ideas with Davies.
7:52
It might have been unintentional foreshadowing
Damn it, why did Lizzie have to die so young? We need more SJA in our lives!
I hope the Trickster’s Brigade shows up in RTD’s new Era.
I'd love to see the Tricksters Brigade explored more.
The trickster talking about what chaos would be unleashed if the doctor never existed but honestly, his existence is pretty chaotic as is.
I really think, hes the one who waits
My prediction is the Trickster is the "oldest one" who was respondible for Ruby being dropped of as a baby, and that Sutekh is the one who waits
The Trickster would be welcome to Doctor Who as a main villain. By far and away, one of the most fascinating characters of all. Imagine how good it would be for the 14th Doctor to face off against The Trickster.
The way I see it is that the "Trickster" needs Sarah Jane as a latch pin of sorts to get at The Doctor so thanks to Sarah Jane's friend he was able to get "his" hooks into the Doctors "timeline" of sorts, now this is where it gets a little "timey wimmey" on it he uses Jane as a lence to get to the Current Doctor then uses him as a "line starter" and goes backwards all the way to when he's first introduced in the Doctor Who Universe it's a brilliant plan and there's no real way that the Doctor can stop him unless he can save Sarah Jane then maybe we have to watch the current run and see...
I hope that RTD brings back the trickster in his new era
The number of times I've watched both Doctor Who and Sarah Jane Adventures, I never connected that the Trickster was talking about the gate in the episode the end of time
They had the advantage that this story was written after that one. Tennant had almost completely finished filming for "The End of Time", except for a few effects shots. So they could drop in some foreshadowing.
Really looking forward to seeing how much of this could play into the Toymaker’s return
Honestly, the trickster episodes were so damn good
I’d love to meet more eternals in new who. We’ve only met around 4
THE PANTHEON sounds so villainous
the one who waits is almost here!
See when people state that there is no continuity in Doctor Who, all you need to do is point to these videos.
Wow that went quite deeper than I thought!!
It goes deeper than I'm quite sure how to make sense of. What's the Trickster's connection with the Black Guardian? I don't know. But there certainly seems to be one.
@@PenneySounds You know how in like Greek Mythology when the God's pissed about they'd create other mythological creatures? They made creatures out of clay, some formed from the flesh cut from their body, some from unholy intimacy, like Cyclops, Centaurs, Sirens etc.
My head canon is its a bit like that. The God's being the Guardians of Time and the Eternals being their demi-god like children created in one way or another. Then The Pantheon of Discord are all specifically the bastard children of the Black Guardian created by him either accidentally or on purpose over his unimaginably long life. Chaos creates discord. Then obviously the brigade are beings or creatures that the Trickster has recruited over the years to help him with his schemes.
@@GenGaara Could be. "Can You Hear Me?" was a nice return to these discussions about immortal beings in the Whoniverse. Maybe there will be more.
@@EternalPayne He refers to Eternals as "they", suggesting he isn't himself one. But these things are all very vague.
@@EternalPayne "Eternal" doesn't even seem to be a race, but just a descriptor of beings who live outside time. It's hard to say who qualifies as one.
When you'd really love the crossover, and see Q and the Q Continuum in conflict with the Eternals.
Id rather see Q face the Black Guardian.
Would be nice to see Rani, Clyde and/or Luke to see how they continued.
There are some interesting references to Clyde and Rani in the video game "The Lonely Assassins". Apparently Clyde turned his experience with homelessness into a lifelong vocation to help the homeless. And I think he's still trying to find "Ellie". Rani was who Larry Nightingale ended up sharing his Wester Drumlins story with and you can read her article about it in the game. I highly recommend playing it.
And K-9, please don't forget K-9...
If RTD needs to bring back one villain to new Who, it should be the TRICKSTER. He should replace the Master to be the Doctor's most feared enemy!
Yes, his brigade was so brutal on the Turn Left episode, his minion almost killed the Doctor and all his allies on modern Earth!
The Pantheon of Discord and Pantheon in 2024. I wonder? 😲😯
I realllly hope he returns!
Watch him be the "oldest one" who was responsible for Ruby being dropped off as a baby
@@jellybabiesarecool4657 especially with the memory changing with that finger pointing
The trickster is the only villain from a spin-off I’d want to come to the main show
Damn what a time it was to be a kid. Great memories watching this villainous masterpiece.
I’m here because I genuinely thought from the new episode The Trickster would be here
It's awsome he was mentioned in new episode.
The Trickster is rumoured to be in Season 2.
Man I love old era Who and SJA. Thanks for making the vid bro!!
They need to bring the trickster into a main story for the doctor.
0:27 _Doctor Who_ canon personified.
This unlocked a memory I forgot I had, the trickster gave me nightmares as a kid 😭
He’s on his way as rubys song is so similar to his
Who would've thought they bring back the Trickster Brigade & The Pantheon of Discord back into the new season, lol. 6:42 , 7:49
I cannot believe Trickster was made for CBBC. Like it is a legit unnerving design. Do wish he crossed over to Doctor Who.
9:00 Tom Baker channeling the same energy of Every major villian in the shoiw 😅
The trickster for me was the scariest “monster” second only to weeping angles
I wonder if the Doctor's casting of salt let the Trickster into the universe for real?
Maybe that's Jinkx Monsoon's character. The One Who Waits?
Here before he’s back,
she is and always be the DoctorDonna
I think it’s The one who left baby ruby by the church 👀
Thank you so much. You’ve gained a subscriber with this on point video. Hopefully the return of the Toymaker in the 60th makes way for some more incredible continuity.
I've got lots more videos like it, and more in mind.
I don't even know who the toymaker is, I really hope they explain it a bit for us new whoers
0:02 the tricksters like: "yes!!! I have finally done it!!! I got rid if Sarah Jane's car!!!!"
0:26 me when I look at myself in the mirror
Since we're getting a new Toymaker in the 60th Anniversary. Hopefully that means The Doctor might face off against the entire Trickster's Brigade at some point.
Oh man, I'm so grateful you added the Torchwood s4 part. What a dark season.... but sooooo fkin good.
Best spin off ever , thanks largely to the wonderful lis sladen , still sorely missed ♥️
I forgot the Toy maker had been referenced before with 13 I’m excited to see them go up against 14
I genuinely thought that the gate was the regeneration of ten I didn't think of the immortality gate
Fun fact this was film after the end of time
the wedding of Sarah Jane was the last scenes David filmed as the doctor till 2013.
@@lucifersdevilishdetails. oh I know that probably why I love that episode that much but thank you 👍
I had no idea that all these continuity threads were connected. And love the 4th Doctor kidding with Romana.
A couple of them only seem to be connected. There isn't a firm connection between the Trickster and the Black Guardian, but the similarity is too remarkable to ignore.