I tell "preppers" all the time... You don't have the logistical support a US Army soldier has. SHTF is not war. Stop preparing like a soldier for war, you're not a soldier and it's not a war.
@noncomplier5385 You completely missed the point. I didn't say "stop preparing". I said, stop preparing like you're a soldier. Soldiers have resupply, MEDEVAC, QRF, artillery and air support. People think they can operate in SHTF with a soldiers kit. You can for a short time. But you can't be getting in gun fights every day. You'll run out of ammo quick, and if you're wounded more than just slightly in SHTF your dead (it's just a matter of time). You can't operate under the doctrine of superior fire power and overwhelming force. That's what I mean when I say don't prepare like a soldier. You're not a soldier. And SHTF is not war. After SHTF there is a high likelihood that there will be legal reprocessing for everything you did. Shot a guy at 600 yards? Please explain to the judge how that was "self defense".
@@Carnyx_1 Actually, you did say "stop preparing" you just tacked on some gobbledygook non-sense to it. Who said anything about getting into "gunfights everyday"? I will be if people try to trespass on my property, end of story.
Operation Gothic Serpent is why the military started fully adopting dump pouches. Was common practice for Rangers to drop mags during reloads. Quickly many were left with one mag. They expected resupply to deliver filled mags, and they got stripper clips.
110%, having speed balls doesn't always happen, and when they have to fly in ammo, it isn't loaded into mags, if you're gonna drop all your mags you might as well drop your rifle. I was not a ranger, but went to ranger school in 97, and the lessons learned from Gothic Serpent changed the way Rangers did most everything. We user dump pouches, and while yes CQB is dynamic, once you've started popping off rounds, who gives a fuck about the noise the mags are making in your pouch. You have to be able to stay in the fight. But to DJs credit, they were SEALs and they did not have to operate like a combat force, they were literally a hit it and quit it operational situation. And they had Ranger QRF on standby if they got in trouble.
Let's not compare apples and oranges. Rangers are different than DevGru. Tier one units like DevGru and CAG have a supply infrastructure that is on a whole other level than any other military units. Including the Rangers. If they want fresh magazines air dropped to them, then that's what they'll get. These are units with extremely deep pockets and conservation of resources is not really a consideration for them. Another thing to consider is mission. DevGru is not a "go on patrol" type of unit. If your mission is to snatch and grab or to rescue hostages, you're not going to be worrying about being resupplied. If you need to be resupplied while rescuing hostages, something has gone terribly wrong.
@cartesian_doubt6230 CAG and Regiment weren't either during operation Gothic Serpent, and that did not go well for the entire operation, make no mistake CAG has access to the very best of everything, but if you're pinned down and they cannot extract you, and the best they can do is resupply, ain't no body sitting around filling mags, SOAR is bring you what they can get to you the fastest. You are correct this is why they roll in with slick set ups, they don't plan on things going sideways, and as I said, they have QRF on standby, another lesson learned in Operation Gothic Serpent. Along with how poorly equipped we were for combat casualties and I'll remind you, that was a CAG operation, supported by Regiment, just because they're the tip of the spear, doesn't mean their decisions are made by God's, the logic is flawed, and battle proven you need to keep your equipment on your person. Not sure if you've ever done any form of CQB/CQC, even suppressed, once the first shot rings out inside, noise discipline is gone. This is their opinion of dump pouches, and I have mine, from serving in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
@@WileyE.Coyote-i7c100% it's almost crime to try and convince civilians they don't need dump pouches or to keep their gear retained the best they can. He has to be intelligent enough to realize THEN IS NOT NOW, if is veterans are in street fire fights in America openly, what does he think you will just run to the nearest bass pro shop and just pay 90dollars a pop for mags, cause that's what it would be if there were even any in the stores, very flawed logic almost like he's trying to set a match just to watch it burn. The community is already super gay we don't need mal advice from someone who's living in the past
Why not the internet warrior's seem to love them and purchase them? Oh no, a company sells a product the owner doesn't personally like or use what a hypocrite it's called business
Jesus fuckin Christ people..... The equipment left over there was FOR the ANA, but the Afghan National Army folded harder than a well used lawn chair and dropped their equipment for the Taliban to use. Hell, I bet you that their equivalent of spec ops guys with the NVGs and high end kit held onto their equipment and went turncoat for the Taliban's Heroin money.
This comment is what irritates me more than anything as it pertains to the Biden / Harris administrations pullout of Afghanistan. They just left millions of dollars worth of equipment which will absolutely be used to murder future military members and innocent civilians. Yet 50% of the country will vote to allow this administration to continue doing shit like that.
LOL. Are you actually this stupid? You think dropping the mag back somewhere in a structure is the same as having a mag in your pouch making noise everywhere you go? I.E. one noise a single time vs constant noise everywhere you go. This is why I love the internet. Morons making comments when people who have actually done the thing you're fantasizing about doing.
@@SuicideParOK, was that on Xbox or Playstation platform? And why are you responding to a question that was posed to someone else? Would it be easier if we communicate in your first language instead of English? You're struggling in English.
For SOF units conducting raids, it's definitely not important. However, for units that will be fighting the typical conventional war, they definitely need their mags.
It’s still good for raids. Namely Charges, but also water bottles, trash after contact if you’re a medic. Carrying Spare linked ammo on infil for the 240 before they emplace. I know Blakewater the old recondo is against dump pouches too in favor of cargo pockets or tucked shirts but it’s nice not having your cargo pockets full or saving space in those pockets for things. I agree with not putting empty mags in there til after the fight is over.
@@ViktoriousDead depends on the leadership at that point, there's ways to get away with it. Many dudes fuck up their nods in SOF units and never get charged for it.
Not even this. What he is doing is specialized in one thing - CQB. If you are in front line like in Ukraine, you keep them, and load them even during fights.
Even as a regular guy, If I’m in the middle of a gunfight, I’m probably not thinking, “what if I lose my empty mag and have to buy a new one?” If dropping it and leaving it made me 1% more likely to survive, I’d drop it. If I’m in a situation where I’m actually moving and need to drop a mag, I probably don’t have a box of ammo with me.
So, you’re in a fire fight and you’re going to take your eye off the target, stop your, hopefully forward movement, to pick up your mag? I’m thinking the results of that would make you possibly dead? So the cost of the mag is irrelevant.
@@TheMSValley @TheMSValley Funny you should ask - having been in lots of firefights in both Iraq and Afghanistan, I have always been able to throw a mag in a dump pouch and reload just fine. 4 Combat deployments and my dump pouch has never failed me.
@@TheMSValley Yes. If I go empty then I either have to transition to secondary like my life depends on it, or I've got enough distance and stuff between me and the other guy I can take an extra second, retain my mag, and get my rifle back up.
This video is only applicable to people in units who have connex boxes of magazines and spare equipment dedicated to them, and who literally never have to worry about sustainment or leaving a sterile environment.
That's exactly what I was thinking about. Though to be fair the video title says why "they" don't like them, and most of their experience is in those units.
@@robertwilson8184 nope that's not it, clearly you have a comprehension issues, the problem is he's a tier one dude with unlimited supplies with direct and indirect fire support, also with QRF on stand by, telling civilians that it's a good idea to drop your mags and dump pouches are foolish, is ridiculous , if you find yourself in America in regular street warfare and you drop all your mags do you actually believe you'll be able to go to your nearest gun shop and purchase another 10,20 or 30 mags for 100 dollars a piece? And if you think 100dollar mags is nonsensical then you are young and foolish and weren't around in the middle 90s when standard AR30rd mags were 100 dollars. Different missions don't just copy and paste your heros load out.
We don't like dump pouches because we have an unlimited operations budget and we're not going on extended missions so we never need to be resupplied, so why bother.
Exactly what I was thinking, not necessarily applicable for your average grunt. Also law enforcement officers I imagine absolutely will get theirs back because there will be a crime scene and investigation and the officer in question probably gets put on leave or something for some time so it's not like they'll need more mags by the next day. Anyways to be fair the title said why "they" don't like them and their experience is in those units that have unlimited everything so that's why. Still funny.
@@kimjansson7179 that’s the core issue, their experience in an unlimited budget unit and now a profitable business. The average person doesn’t have this luxury and neither did line dogs. I respect the noise complaint quite a bit because my entire existence in Iraq was reconnaissance and ambush. Magazines are an expendable item easily replaced by Uncle leech but it’s the exact opposite for civilians. $20 a pop is no joke when you only make $35k a year. The whole channel/company focuses on CQB. The fight that’s coming won’t be flashy raids done by juiced up operators, it will be Billy dad bod trying to save his neighborhood from hordes of savages.
@@mikesmith7497 I was in RR, LRSD and Scouts. I got all the love me badges and schools and did my 20. All that BS aside these guys are one demential with one mindset, the very best at what they do and pretty much that’s it. I’d take plain old 11B for my end of the world scenario because they know what it like to sit on guard duty, run a patrol base, send out R&S teams AND pull off a raid when needed. Might not be sexy smooth but it will get done and then dig hasty fighting positions after.
I think he's takling about picking up mags during a firefight, but yeah after a firefight I will go back and pick up my mags if I happen to drop them or can't get it into my dump pouch.
@@blackwolfpnw7632 Context really dictates. If we’ve got a good bit of distance and cover/concealment, I see no reason not to retain. If you’re right up on top of each other, then things obviously start looking different.
How so, he’s saying why they didn’t use them unless it was specific to their mission with valid reasons as to why and it’s not like he’s saying this is why you can never wear a dump pouch and if you do you’re wrong.
If you actually paid attention to what hes saying instead immediately scrolling to the comments , you would know this video doesn't apply to you... It only applies to "CQB ninjas" such as tier 1 operators
Since I'm not an operator with endless pmags to just leave on the ground, I'll keep my dump pouch. I see his point if you are doing very specific work. 99% will never do that work. Pmags are expensive. Regular units will crap their pants if you come back without magazines.
This is the biggest difference between grunts and SF. Talking about sound resonating after throwing bangs, frags, and rounds and being worried about sit in your dump pouch.
There is a huge difference between cqb/operator and general/infantry type missions. I think alot of guys are training SHTF/NROL situation and magazines may not be some infinite material you can easily access. I'm not saying not to be aware of noise but in certain situations you will want to potentially not want to drop every and leave a magazine everytime you reload. I also think dump pouches fill a good role as a general purpose pouch and anything extra before stepping out.
Okay, if I recall correctly, dump pouches were utilized after the real Blackhawk Down incident in Somalia. Rangers were speed loading half empty mags behind cover and leaving ammo behind that they could’ve utilized later that night when they were trapped there. This was the reasoning for the dump pouch as I remember it.
@@robertwilson8184 Which has nothing to do about mitigating noise while throwing frags and flashbangs into a building you're rolling up onto with 9 other guys. Dude is talking nonsense.
1. Not everyone on the range is CQB focused. 2. You can put other shit in a dump pouch, not just mags. 3. If there is one thing that has been drilled into my head is that your gear should be mission focused. If the mission calls for a dump pouch or one can be useful, then carry a dump pouch. Good video. Thanks guys!👍🇺🇸
If you’re on a 6 month regular infantry deployment in a patrol base, out fighting daily, you don’t have the spare empty mags to replenish with! You need to take those back to refill for tomorrow!
I used to think just dump the empty mag and get a fresh one in was the best use of time, until i trained with a SWAT dog who ran a dump pouch and was able to conduct an emergency reload, retain his mag and get his gun back up faster than me just dumping my empty on the ground. Right then I realized training was the most important factor over gear or anything else.
so those of us who are not supplied with magazines or cant afford to buy more and more... guess we are stuck with gravel in our pockets banging on doors
i cannt stand when people comment things they dont understand. when you train to go in hot in rooms with enemies you cant afford to have slow or noisy routines. you dont spend millions training and selecting someone and then to make more risk for them over magazines. are you out of your mind or what?
@@pal_lokomotivet2679Your absolutely right, but its the attitude that anyone who saves their mags is somehow stupid. Thats the attitude I get at least.
Moral of the story- different tools/ tactics for different jobs. If you’re a tier 1 combatant with infinite resupply and resources. Who gives a crap about mags. If you’re light infantry/ minutemen and can’t rely on resupply. You probably need to be more careful about throwing your mags away. Might not be a bad idea to hold on to them. With that being said. If you’re in a gunfight priority is keeping ur gun fed. Picking up that mag you dropped isn’t gonna make a difference if you get shot because you didn’t feed ur gun fast enough. Thanks for the video GBRS always appreciate the insight.
The cops in the "LA shootout" didn't pick up their brass. The shootout I believe you're referring to, is the FBI Miami shootout in the late 1980's. Where 2 of the agents died with spent .38spl casings in their coat pockets. One of them with his hand still in his pocket, where he was emptying the spent brass from his 5 shot snubb-nosed .38spl revolver into his pocket when he died. It was due to training scars on the range. The geniuses at Quantico would have the agents dump spent brass into their hands and then into their pockets, before reloading, so they didn't have to pick it up later. Instead of emptying the gun with their support hand, by hooking the center of the revolver with their middle finger and ring finger, and using their thumb to press the ejector rod on the cylinder, while drawing their speedloader with their dominant hand to reload. Yeah, a lot changed due to the Miami shootout. To include, they stopped carrying 5 shot .38spl revolvers and had Smith & Wesson develop a new semiauto round. One stronger than the 9mm, that didn't have the over penetration problems that the 9mm ammo had back then. That's what brought the 10mm. Which became the. 40s&w, because most agents couldn't qualify with the 10mm. They cut the 10mm casing down, reduced the powder, used the same projectile and called it the .40s&w. The .40s&w led to the development of the .357sig. Sig designed the P229 as a .40s&w and created their own round, the .357sig shortly after. That's why the .40s&w and. 357sig use the same magazine. In fact, every part in a .40s&w and a .357sig is the same, except for the barrel. The .40s&w is a high pressure round, but the .357sig is an even higher pressure round. That's why agencies have switched back to 9mm, since ammo technology has been largely improved. They can carry 2 or 3 extra rounds in their mags and the "Berkley DEI" hires can actually get close to hitting their targets. All that soy....doesn't do much for grip strength.
Goes back to the four CHP officers that were killed( Newhall Incident) at a traffic stop… CHP officers bodies had spent brass in their pockets( revolver days ), as they were trained to put empties in their pockets( so no brass on the new clean ranges of the new Academy )
"Why not just put a bunch of loose gravel in it" If you've never filled your buddy's dump pouch with gravel when he wasn't paying attention you're not living
We should look to history to find the answer. Resupply of ammo comes in bulk, not in preloaded magazines. A unit found themselves in the field with a fresh shipment of ammo but no magazines, and they thought, man, it would have been nice to have a way to save all those magazines. Whether it's still useful is up to the user.
They seem to be quite popular in Ukraine when dealing with a near peer adversary. Kicking peoples door down in the middle of the night ain't quite the same thing is it.
If you’re in the 💩…do a reload without retention and get back in the fight but the point of tactical reloading is because once the objective is secure; you want to be able to pull security. You can be as ninja as you want but if you’re riding a Blackhawk onto the target…that’s louder than a couple mags clacking (same with a breaching charge). There’s a time and a place for everything but if Mogadishu taught guys anything it is that you don’t wanna be down to your last mag scavenging for one on the ground that has a few rounds left
It depends on the situation, if your a military unit with plenty of re supply then leave them. If you find yourself in a SHTF situation or a place where re supply is not available then maybe you don’t want to throw it away. Conservation of resources may be the most important factor. What situation are you planning/training for???
Mag retention practices come from expeditionary forces, scout units, airwhatever units. etc. that don't have infinite funding and support. Equipment retention/conservation is a whole lot more important for a paratrooper or an amphib grunt that has to consider and train for sustained combat operations, often under lesser or unsupported conditions. This is totally different than the raid ninjas with infinite equipment and supplies at their disposal. I think DJ is wrong saying it's an artificiality or rangeism, it's just a different mission, mindset and training for a different kind of operation.
As an instructor myself I push the idea that things are thought of and used for specific things. Some techniques and strategies can be used for multiple things however your mileage may vary. This guy has a lot of logistical support. Your average person doesn’t. So take everything with a grain of salt and sift through what you see and hear through the filter of your circumstances
I have lots of friends and family in the IDF, they don't have extra mags back at base. Your mags and your mags. Also, not everyone goes in and out like Seals. Some guys have to be out there for days and weeks, you repack your mags in the field
Sure, you don't need to retrieve mags if you're spec ops and you have unlimited resources, and you're not worried about leaving evidence of who you are, then I get it. But if it's anything other than that, mags are gold, don't leave them behind.
Easy on the Marines, we were balling on a budget. At MARSOC all we had were connex's full of boot bands ordered by the former Motor T SgtMaj, so we'd look squared away while jumping canals in the Helmand.
using a dump pouch just depends on your situation. Like guys in iraq and afghanistan where getting g dropped of via helicopter hitting a target and getting picked back up. they may do a mag change drop that mage that’s empty and forget about it because like he said back at base they have thousands and thousands of mags that can easily replace that on you lose where as guys in ukraine are needing to have dump pouches because good magazines for there AKs over there are hard to come buy especially considering it’s a near pear conflict where each side has jets that can strike the facilities manufacturing these magazines, so it just really depends on the situation that you in honestly
In Vietnam, Marines in Force Recon were taught to secure everything to make sure nothing jingled, not even a zipper slider; particularly metallic or plastic wrinkling noise. Yes things get noisy when the shooting started, but it is possible to move quietly enough to not be heard on the other side of a wall while doing room-clearing. At the highest level of combat efficiency and not in a subjugation / policing action, you can clear 4-5 rooms in a hallway and not be heard by the guys in the 6th room. Even if a gunfight ensued, anyone taking up an ambush wouldn't know exactly when or where the raid would come in. Maintaining equipment en mass for the regular Army performing CQB to take-and-hold positions (i.e. not Marines or SF doing CQB raiding to eliminate everything that moves in a specific location), keeping up with mags may be more important. You've got several hundreds or even thousands of operators in something like a city, clearing buildings and expecting the population to return. You can leave a lot of mess behind and often you could be running into more civilians--people who secretly may be insurgents. The main goal there is to try and clear out the combatants and rush through to find storehouses for supplies, hideouts, maybe small command centers or whatnot across multiple city blocks. At that point, letting everyone just drop their mags and leave them can cost millions of dollars. And at that point, yes there could be some material left behind for insurgents to find or collect in secret for some kind of use later. But a small handful of SF guys getting into intense situations, executing the mission swiftly, quickly, and quietly becomes a lot more important and a few magazines left lying around isn't as big a deal.
I think it just depends on what you’re doing. If it’s a speed load of course I won’t retain it but a tac reload takes no extra time to stow in the dump pouch vs indexing it back into a mag pouch. I see the reason for both POVs. It really shouldn’t be as big of a deal as people make it to be. Different set ups for different things.
3:30... it makes noise? If you're dropping a mag you've already been shooting. These guys mis alot of context and it makes them look like they don't know what their talking about
Like absolute respect, but do y’all do these videos for people, or for SoF pats on the back? Would you also recommend us not having vehicles, cause we can just call in a bird?
Whos house are you going into in the middle of the night? That's crazy, every cqb situation I've ever been in there was so much ambient noise that a couple mags knocking around in my dump pouch aren't going to be heard
In a firefight or hostile situation without the van full of thousands of magazines one may find it necessary to retain the only method they have for feeding their weapon lead.
Ok understandable but what if HYPOTHETICALLY I'm in the American south east after a hurricane and for some reason my government isn't helping but is actually making the situation worse? Would it be a good idea to have a dump amd retain magazines then?
His demeanor reminds me of my grandfather who did recon and combat missions in Vietnam as a Marine and then police officer for a decade. His hand motion, the voice tone, the beard, head nods, heck even clothing. It's almost like there's a universal cultural influence on some of these guys who go through real combat.
100% makes sense, it might have a cost up front but buy bulk mag bundles and split them into ones that you would use for actual situation and ones for training, and at the end of the training just pick them up and go over them see if anything has any signs of issue, fix or replace its that simple
So, the dump pouches were certainly a range ism at first. We used them a lot during the shooting packages. Mainly because we would be loading our 45 pistol mags between relays. On hits, I really only ever used mine for TSE and to load it with stuff we found in the houses. My unit was nowhere as proficient at CQB as these guys and noise was not a concern as every hit was dynamic and we usually were rolling up in vehicles. He makes some very valid points.
It’s a very common misconception from civvies that the mags we carry on us are the only ones we have and we have to reuse them. I ran a dump pouch, it was used sparingly and when used, it was for throwing something in there quickly while bouncing out. Maybe a bit of Intel. It’s an extra place to stuff something quickly and they’re handy, but nobody is storing empty mags in there. I’ve also seen them used in firefights full of grenades when the boys were dug in and grinding one out.
Battle vs training vs no resupply. When I served and deployed, we went through great lengths to make sure that our gear did not make noise or would snag on something. As a civilian, I run a tightly rolled dump pouch on my training war belt which is especially great after a competition stage.
1. Infantry is trained to reload after target is secured. 2. An active gunfight, of course you aren’t keeping your mags. In a lull, when you’ve expended a lot of rounds, yeah you’re looking for mags.
I understand his point though it doesn’t apply to those of us not in battle being supplied with thousands of mags. That said, I’ve trained with many instructors. One in particular says do not handle empty mags. And he’s right. Eject it, leave it on ground and reload as quickly as possible. Yes, when the drill is over everyone gets their mags.
I use mine for empty mags, so i dont try to reload an empty one from my kit. Its great for my D60 drum mag too. Im always using my dump pouch. The loudness factor? If im using mine...you already know im there.
Everyone: Watch the whole video before you make assumptions. Yes, in a combat environment with admin support for resupplies, when efficient movement and sound discipline is important, it is dumb to walk around with an open dump pouch. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have one one a range belt or even home defense/without rule of law battle belt setup. Just like a flashlight, you use it when it makes sense, and don't use it when it doesn't make sense.
In a building I’d be more concerned about the god damn thing snagging on a damn door knob. That said, this dude sure seems to exist in a different corner of reality.
I more concerned with why so many people are dropping empty mags. One I get, but you should always l be looking to tactically reload and if you have the time to do so you have the time to put the other mag away. How often are people emergency reloading? Because in that case I would fully understand dumping the mag and focusing on the reload and getting rounds down range.
Just train and be prepared to fight to your preference. I've never used a dump pouch, but I still practice retaining my mags. At the end of the day it's your life and equipment.
Dump pouch is used for other purposes other than just empty mags. Every situation is different. Know your application and environment. Use your dump pouch.
GBRS, why didn't you design your mount as a QD? Is that a business decision or a tactile one? Asking because I want to make the right choice. Also, why bring the designator up away from the bore? Is that to get it as close to your sight picture as possible? TIA.
I'm going to say dump pouches ate situational. I deployed twice to Iraq during the early part of the war and when we would drop metal magazines, they would often get ran over by vehicles, damaged etc. While we could go get new magazines when we were actually on base, we might not be on base for weeks at a time so there we are stuck with a magazine shortage. That's why the development of the PMAG was so crucial. It can withstand being ran over and not damage like an aluminum magazine. You could go back and pick it up later and still use it again. Can't tell you how many times I had to stick my rifle cleaning rod into an aluminum magazine to try to get it to feed properly. When you go to war, you found out really quickly that a lot of the training tactics that people use and the high speed stuff that they come up with during peace time, it really doesn't work. Take room clearing for example. It is my opinion that dynamic room clearing is dangerous and will get you killed. The insurgents in Iraq knew this and they would often booby trap houses. The Israeli limited penetration approach is way more effective than dumping into a room. Tactics also change based on the equipment you have available. Let me explain. During the Iraqi invasion, troops would often exit their vehicles and run to cover during fire. In 2005, we were trained to stay in our vehicles because that's when we started getting the heavily armored vehicles. You're a lot safer in a armored vehicle than you were running and looking for some kind of cover. At the end of the day, what I learned by doing two tours in combat is that everything is situational. There is no one size fits all approach. Just look how the Ukrainians have used drones to their benefit. That absolutely amazed me. I never would have thought to be so innovative.
This one is a real thinker. I 100% agree-ish for that specific CQB role. I dont know, a seal mission set is a lot different, and has a lot more support than any civilian, LE, or conventional forces would ever get so what he is saying is absolutely true. NSW units train to be on and off target as fast as possible and absolutely everything has to be streamlined. As for any other MIL unit, If any situation arose to where your exfil or support was not available or you are in a FORCEPRO role, you would likely want those mags, *if the situation allows*. Way too many known and current conflicts to where that is even a disputable fact. The issue arises because he doesn't caveat his thoughts, which is fine. My only pushback would be to assert its a "rangism". It certainly has a purpose, it becomes a "rangism" when they are seen in videos being for purposes not intended, like a waterbottle holster.
Guys, they aint us. Wear and use your dump pouch. Carry extra ammo in your pack. Dont be stupid and dont get killed
Nahh, I don't need some ballsack getting snagged on everything.
I tell "preppers" all the time... You don't have the logistical support a US Army soldier has. SHTF is not war. Stop preparing like a soldier for war, you're not a soldier and it's not a war.
@@Carnyx_1 You're literally going to be the first casualty if anythign ever does happen. lol
@noncomplier5385 You completely missed the point. I didn't say "stop preparing". I said, stop preparing like you're a soldier. Soldiers have resupply, MEDEVAC, QRF, artillery and air support. People think they can operate in SHTF with a soldiers kit. You can for a short time. But you can't be getting in gun fights every day. You'll run out of ammo quick, and if you're wounded more than just slightly in SHTF your dead (it's just a matter of time). You can't operate under the doctrine of superior fire power and overwhelming force.
That's what I mean when I say don't prepare like a soldier. You're not a soldier. And SHTF is not war. After SHTF there is a high likelihood that there will be legal reprocessing for everything you did. Shot a guy at 600 yards? Please explain to the judge how that was "self defense".
@@Carnyx_1 Actually, you did say "stop preparing" you just tacked on some gobbledygook non-sense to it. Who said anything about getting into "gunfights everyday"? I will be if people try to trespass on my property, end of story.
Operation Gothic Serpent is why the military started fully adopting dump pouches. Was common practice for Rangers to drop mags during reloads. Quickly many were left with one mag. They expected resupply to deliver filled mags, and they got stripper clips.
110%, having speed balls doesn't always happen, and when they have to fly in ammo, it isn't loaded into mags, if you're gonna drop all your mags you might as well drop your rifle.
I was not a ranger, but went to ranger school in 97, and the lessons learned from Gothic Serpent changed the way Rangers did most everything. We user dump pouches, and while yes CQB is dynamic, once you've started popping off rounds, who gives a fuck about the noise the mags are making in your pouch.
You have to be able to stay in the fight.
But to DJs credit, they were SEALs and they did not have to operate like a combat force, they were literally a hit it and quit it operational situation. And they had Ranger QRF on standby if they got in trouble.
Let's not compare apples and oranges. Rangers are different than DevGru. Tier one units like DevGru and CAG have a supply infrastructure that is on a whole other level than any other military units. Including the Rangers. If they want fresh magazines air dropped to them, then that's what they'll get. These are units with extremely deep pockets and conservation of resources is not really a consideration for them. Another thing to consider is mission. DevGru is not a "go on patrol" type of unit. If your mission is to snatch and grab or to rescue hostages, you're not going to be worrying about being resupplied. If you need to be resupplied while rescuing hostages, something has gone terribly wrong.
@cartesian_doubt6230 CAG and Regiment weren't either during operation Gothic Serpent, and that did not go well for the entire operation, make no mistake CAG has access to the very best of everything, but if you're pinned down and they cannot extract you, and the best they can do is resupply, ain't no body sitting around filling mags, SOAR is bring you what they can get to you the fastest.
You are correct this is why they roll in with slick set ups, they don't plan on things going sideways, and as I said, they have QRF on standby, another lesson learned in Operation Gothic Serpent.
Along with how poorly equipped we were for combat casualties and I'll remind you, that was a CAG operation, supported by Regiment, just because they're the tip of the spear, doesn't mean their decisions are made by God's, the logic is flawed, and battle proven you need to keep your equipment on your person.
Not sure if you've ever done any form of CQB/CQC, even suppressed, once the first shot rings out inside, noise discipline is gone.
This is their opinion of dump pouches, and I have mine, from serving in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
@@cartesian_doubt6230 In a perfect world.
@@WileyE.Coyote-i7c100% it's almost crime to try and convince civilians they don't need dump pouches or to keep their gear retained the best they can. He has to be intelligent enough to realize THEN IS NOT NOW, if is veterans are in street fire fights in America openly, what does he think you will just run to the nearest bass pro shop and just pay 90dollars a pop for mags, cause that's what it would be if there were even any in the stores, very flawed logic almost like he's trying to set a match just to watch it burn. The community is already super gay we don't need mal advice from someone who's living in the past
Next they are gonna drop a branded dump pouch.
Why wouldn’t they? They support end users and some people like to run them.
@@EdwardP1776glazing a bunch of 40 yr old men you don’t know is so sad bro
They never said they didnt like them, they said that they would not run around with an OPEN dump pouch.
Why not the internet warrior's seem to love them and purchase them? Oh no, a company sells a product the owner doesn't personally like or use what a hypocrite it's called business
"Loot Pouch"
If i had dropped my mags and left them behind in Afghanistan i would have been charged for loss of kit 🤣, even worse aiding the enemy 🤣
Well darn it! Didn't that guy always on TV with dementia leave a bunch of equipment over there aiding the enemy.
It would be unfortunate if tens of thousands of M4s and night vision devices were left behind instead
Jesus fuckin Christ people..... The equipment left over there was FOR the ANA, but the Afghan National Army folded harder than a well used lawn chair and dropped their equipment for the Taliban to use. Hell, I bet you that their equivalent of spec ops guys with the NVGs and high end kit held onto their equipment and went turncoat for the Taliban's Heroin money.
This comment is what irritates me more than anything as it pertains to the Biden / Harris administrations pullout of Afghanistan. They just left millions of dollars worth of equipment which will absolutely be used to murder future military members and innocent civilians. Yet 50% of the country will vote to allow this administration to continue doing shit like that.
And then they just left all the mags there anyway, and the tanks and the Hummers and the everything’s
“Sound signature of a dump pouch is too much.”
*Drops aluminum mag on a concrete floor*
after you just got mag dumping.. yeah im worried about noise
@@hambone950 , maybe you're fighting a bunch of infants who don't have object permanence, so after you mag dump, they think you've ceased to exist.
LOL. Are you actually this stupid? You think dropping the mag back somewhere in a structure is the same as having a mag in your pouch making noise everywhere you go?
I.E. one noise a single time vs constant noise everywhere you go.
This is why I love the internet. Morons making comments when people who have actually done the thing you're fantasizing about doing.
It's not just that moment, it's all the moments after that.
And then the act of congress it would take to get the rest of your team to subscribe to your thoughts and ditch the dump too
Tell me you don't pay for anything without telling me you don't pay for anything
😅😅
When you're shooting people in real life, you don't prioritize finances....
Ain't that the truth.
The dump pouch makes noise? Bro we used C4 on the front door and we are shooting our way through this house, I think they know we are here.
"We" ?!? Who are you attempting to affiliate in your comment.
yea but you dont want mags to raddle inn the bag giving away that you are outside the door before the blast.
@@hendrickvanderdecken7926 Fellow warriors, like myself, who left the FOB and played Boogeymen for the Hajjis while in the sandbox. 🤷♂😂
Were you DevGru or CAG? I doubt it. He was DevGru, totally different tactics and operations.
@@SuicideParOK, was that on Xbox or Playstation platform? And why are you responding to a question that was posed to someone else? Would it be easier if we communicate in your first language instead of English? You're struggling in English.
For SOF units conducting raids, it's definitely not important. However, for units that will be fighting the typical conventional war, they definitely need their mags.
It’s still good for raids. Namely Charges, but also water bottles, trash after contact if you’re a medic. Carrying Spare linked ammo on infil for the 240 before they emplace. I know Blakewater the old recondo is against dump pouches too in favor of cargo pockets or tucked shirts but it’s nice not having your cargo pockets full or saving space in those pockets for things.
I agree with not putting empty mags in there til after the fight is over.
@@TheShredillac you can just carry a SSE bag for that stuff or just put in the pack
@@HayasaTribe agreed but it’s nice not having a pack on, you’re not gonna want that on your back if you have the option
NO SOF is dropping and leaving mags without issues
@@ViktoriousDead depends on the leadership at that point, there's ways to get away with it. Many dudes fuck up their nods in SOF units and never get charged for it.
Regular guy watching this you aren’t government funded
Not even this. What he is doing is specialized in one thing - CQB. If you are in front line like in Ukraine, you keep them, and load them even during fights.
@@limbus_patrumbingo 100%
The logic stands. A regular guy isn’t doing house clearing at night.
If that hurts a regular guy just remember you’re a regular guy.
@@limbus_patrum I’m not speaking for Ukraine fighting, I’m speaking for regular guys
Even as a regular guy, If I’m in the middle of a gunfight, I’m probably not thinking, “what if I lose my empty mag and have to buy a new one?” If dropping it and leaving it made me 1% more likely to survive, I’d drop it. If I’m in a situation where I’m actually moving and need to drop a mag, I probably don’t have a box of ammo with me.
Bruh if I'm paying for my mags out of pocket, you better believe I'm retaining them.
So, you’re in a fire fight and you’re going to take your eye off the target, stop your, hopefully forward movement, to pick up your mag? I’m thinking the results of that would make you possibly dead? So the cost of the mag is irrelevant.
Or learn how to reload with retention, maybe try not standing out in the open while reloading
@@TheMSValley @TheMSValley Funny you should ask - having been in lots of firefights in both Iraq and Afghanistan, I have always been able to throw a mag in a dump pouch and reload just fine. 4 Combat deployments and my dump pouch has never failed me.
@@TheMSValley Yes. If I go empty then I either have to transition to secondary like my life depends on it, or I've got enough distance and stuff between me and the other guy I can take an extra second, retain my mag, and get my rifle back up.
@@TheMSValley retaining a magazine don't require your eyes to move there. It's very easy to retain a magazine with a couple drills in a second or 2
This video is only applicable to people in units who have connex boxes of magazines and spare equipment dedicated to them, and who literally never have to worry about sustainment or leaving a sterile environment.
That's exactly what I was thinking about. Though to be fair the video title says why "they" don't like them, and most of their experience is in those units.
Exactly it's almost like he's doing it on purpose. I wore a dump pouch in Iraq for yrs not once did it compromised my ability to do CQB or anything
Glorified SWAT
@@SwoleApp Doing what? Stating his opinion based on his own experience?
@@robertwilson8184 nope that's not it, clearly you have a comprehension issues, the problem is he's a tier one dude with unlimited supplies with direct and indirect fire support, also with QRF on stand by, telling civilians that it's a good idea to drop your mags and dump pouches are foolish, is ridiculous , if you find yourself in America in regular street warfare and you drop all your mags do you actually believe you'll be able to go to your nearest gun shop and purchase another 10,20 or 30 mags for 100 dollars a piece? And if you think 100dollar mags is nonsensical then you are young and foolish and weren't around in the middle 90s when standard AR30rd mags were 100 dollars. Different missions don't just copy and paste your heros load out.
Next they gonna release a XL dump pouch where you can hide a package
This was funny. A+
I'll buy one.
We don't like dump pouches because we have an unlimited operations budget and we're not going on extended missions so we never need to be resupplied, so why bother.
thus the reason why i carry 3 mags
Ah the mythical magazine fairy that drops them from the connex in the sky.
Exactly what I was thinking, not necessarily applicable for your average grunt. Also law enforcement officers I imagine absolutely will get theirs back because there will be a crime scene and investigation and the officer in question probably gets put on leave or something for some time so it's not like they'll need more mags by the next day. Anyways to be fair the title said why "they" don't like them and their experience is in those units that have unlimited everything so that's why. Still funny.
@@kimjansson7179 that’s the core issue, their experience in an unlimited budget unit and now a profitable business. The average person doesn’t have this luxury and neither did line dogs. I respect the noise complaint quite a bit because my entire existence in Iraq was reconnaissance and ambush. Magazines are an expendable item easily replaced by Uncle leech but it’s the exact opposite for civilians. $20 a pop is no joke when you only make $35k a year. The whole channel/company focuses on CQB. The fight that’s coming won’t be flashy raids done by juiced up operators, it will be Billy dad bod trying to save his neighborhood from hordes of savages.
@@VictoryOrValhalla14could not have said it better.
@@VictoryOrValhalla14 Your defiantly right man. What was your MOS in the Army I was just a simple 11B myself.
@@mikesmith7497 I was in RR, LRSD and Scouts. I got all the love me badges and schools and did my 20. All that BS aside these guys are one demential with one mindset, the very best at what they do and pretty much that’s it. I’d take plain old 11B for my end of the world scenario because they know what it like to sit on guard duty, run a patrol base, send out R&S teams AND pull off a raid when needed. Might not be sexy smooth but it will get done and then dig hasty fighting positions after.
Seal team 6 operates much differently than any other unit. They have every asset. I found a dump pouch is one of the most useful things on my belt
Yup. Use one all the time.
Even in my civilian life
Just a handy thing to have on a belt.
Thats a BS of a video..... not everyone has an unlimited supply of mags. The noise argument is ridiculous.
I think he's takling about picking up mags during a firefight, but yeah after a firefight I will go back and pick up my mags if I happen to drop them or can't get it into my dump pouch.
@@blackwolfpnw7632 Context really dictates. If we’ve got a good bit of distance and cover/concealment, I see no reason not to retain.
If you’re right up on top of each other, then things obviously start looking different.
How so, he’s saying why they didn’t use them unless it was specific to their mission with valid reasons as to why and it’s not like he’s saying this is why you can never wear a dump pouch and if you do you’re wrong.
He’s not talking about you, this is purely for elite cqb focused professionals
If you actually paid attention to what hes saying instead immediately scrolling to the comments , you would know this video doesn't apply to you... It only applies to "CQB ninjas" such as tier 1 operators
My dump pouch was the most versatile piece of kit for OIF that I had, it’s where I kept my pogey bait
Came here to say the same thing brother, was perfect for ranges and shit to store my pogey bait hahaha
Smarties man. You could’ve followed me like Hansel and Gretel at times😂
Nahh, I'd say my rifle or pdw is probably my most "versatile" piece of kit, not some pouch that looks like a ballsack.
Due to complete lack of proper gear provided...I got to use my dump pouch for my 40mm (bandoliers/pouches were a bridge to far for some units)
Dump pouches are the best thing that’s ever happened. Served for 9 years and used mine for absolutely everything.
- infantry here: just use your dump pouches.
Since I'm not an operator with endless pmags to just leave on the ground, I'll keep my dump pouch. I see his point if you are doing very specific work. 99% will never do that work. Pmags are expensive. Regular units will crap their pants if you come back without magazines.
This is the biggest difference between grunts and SF.
Talking about sound resonating after throwing bangs, frags, and rounds and being worried about sit in your dump pouch.
There is a huge difference between cqb/operator and general/infantry type missions. I think alot of guys are training SHTF/NROL situation and magazines may not be some infinite material you can easily access. I'm not saying not to be aware of noise but in certain situations you will want to potentially not want to drop every and leave a magazine everytime you reload. I also think dump pouches fill a good role as a general purpose pouch and anything extra before stepping out.
What noise? If youre putting a just emptied mag into your pouch i doubt thats louder than you having just emptied said mag. Haha
@@joshmiller9783 that's true. I think Mayne he meant later later on and 2 pmags rattling against eachother
Okay, if I recall correctly, dump pouches were utilized after the real Blackhawk Down incident in Somalia. Rangers were speed loading half empty mags behind cover and leaving ammo behind that they could’ve utilized later that night when they were trapped there.
This was the reasoning for the dump pouch as I remember it.
Don’t forget guys DJ is talking about a very specific use case.
Yeah a very specific use where after you range out 29 rounds of 556 you are still concerned with noise😂😂😂. Utter bullshit here
@@fishrrelaxing9361 I see no reason to telegraph your exact position any more than absolutely necessary. He mentions this specifically in the video.
@@robertwilson8184 How quiet do you think conducting a cqb raid is? Dude is a goof.
@@antherguy047 I wonder who takes more casualties in “cqb raids” per capita, NSW DEVGRU, or regular line infantry units
@@robertwilson8184 Which has nothing to do about mitigating noise while throwing frags and flashbangs into a building you're rolling up onto with 9 other guys.
Dude is talking nonsense.
1. Not everyone on the range is CQB focused.
2. You can put other shit in a dump pouch, not just mags.
3. If there is one thing that has been drilled into my head is that your gear should be mission focused. If the mission calls for a dump pouch or one can be useful, then carry a dump pouch.
Good video. Thanks guys!👍🇺🇸
I never got from him that you should not have one.... just that you should not be wasting time in CQB putting empties into it.
If you’re on a 6 month regular infantry deployment in a patrol base, out fighting daily, you don’t have the spare empty mags to replenish with! You need to take those back to refill for tomorrow!
I used to think just dump the empty mag and get a fresh one in was the best use of time, until i trained with a SWAT dog who ran a dump pouch and was able to conduct an emergency reload, retain his mag and get his gun back up faster than me just dumping my empty on the ground. Right then I realized training was the most important factor over gear or anything else.
so those of us who are not supplied with magazines or cant afford to buy more and more... guess we are stuck with gravel in our pockets banging on doors
I can't stand this nonchalance of the rich.
i cannt stand when people comment things they dont understand. when you train to go in hot in rooms with enemies you cant afford to have slow or noisy routines. you dont spend millions training and selecting someone and then to make more risk for them over magazines. are you out of your mind or what?
@@pal_lokomotivet2679Your absolutely right, but its the attitude that anyone who saves their mags is somehow stupid. Thats the attitude I get at least.
Didn't Christian Craighead have one on in Nairobi? Doesn't get more cqb ninja than him😂
No, he didn’t. Anyway I’m not taking off mine DP😂
@@RockNRolla27 A quick google search will show you that he did on the front
Moral of the story- different tools/ tactics for different jobs.
If you’re a tier 1 combatant with infinite resupply and resources. Who gives a crap about mags.
If you’re light infantry/ minutemen and can’t rely on resupply. You probably need to be more careful about throwing your mags away. Might not be a bad idea to hold on to them.
With that being said. If you’re in a gunfight priority is keeping ur gun fed. Picking up that mag you dropped isn’t gonna make a difference if you get shot because you didn’t feed ur gun fast enough.
Thanks for the video GBRS always appreciate the insight.
The cops in the "LA shootout" didn't pick up their brass. The shootout I believe you're referring to, is the FBI Miami shootout in the late 1980's. Where 2 of the agents died with spent .38spl casings in their coat pockets. One of them with his hand still in his pocket, where he was emptying the spent brass from his 5 shot snubb-nosed .38spl revolver into his pocket when he died. It was due to training scars on the range. The geniuses at Quantico would have the agents dump spent brass into their hands and then into their pockets, before reloading, so they didn't have to pick it up later. Instead of emptying the gun with their support hand, by hooking the center of the revolver with their middle finger and ring finger, and using their thumb to press the ejector rod on the cylinder, while drawing their speedloader with their dominant hand to reload. Yeah, a lot changed due to the Miami shootout. To include, they stopped carrying 5 shot .38spl revolvers and had Smith & Wesson develop a new semiauto round. One stronger than the 9mm, that didn't have the over penetration problems that the 9mm ammo had back then. That's what brought the 10mm. Which became the. 40s&w, because most agents couldn't qualify with the 10mm. They cut the 10mm casing down, reduced the powder, used the same projectile and called it the .40s&w. The .40s&w led to the development of the .357sig. Sig designed the P229 as a .40s&w and created their own round, the .357sig shortly after. That's why the .40s&w and. 357sig use the same magazine. In fact, every part in a .40s&w and a .357sig is the same, except for the barrel. The .40s&w is a high pressure round, but the .357sig is an even higher pressure round. That's why agencies have switched back to 9mm, since ammo technology has been largely improved. They can carry 2 or 3 extra rounds in their mags and the "Berkley DEI" hires can actually get close to hitting their targets. All that soy....doesn't do much for grip strength.
Goes back to the four CHP officers that were killed( Newhall Incident) at a traffic stop… CHP officers bodies had spent brass in their pockets( revolver days ), as they were trained to put empties in their pockets( so no brass on the new clean ranges of the new Academy )
He has a point but regular infantry don't have vans full of 1000s of magazines
I’m a poor civilian, ima pick my mags up even if I take a bullet to the leg.
😅 yup
"Why not just put a bunch of loose gravel in it" If you've never filled your buddy's dump pouch with gravel when he wasn't paying attention you're not living
We’re not tier 1 assaulters and spend 100% of our time on ranges and not in combat. We don’t care.
We should look to history to find the answer. Resupply of ammo comes in bulk, not in preloaded magazines. A unit found themselves in the field with a fresh shipment of ammo but no magazines, and they thought, man, it would have been nice to have a way to save all those magazines. Whether it's still useful is up to the user.
They seem to be quite popular in Ukraine when dealing with a near peer adversary. Kicking peoples door down in the middle of the night ain't quite the same thing is it.
GBRS dump pouch when
lol
If you’re in the 💩…do a reload without retention and get back in the fight but the point of tactical reloading is because once the objective is secure; you want to be able to pull security. You can be as ninja as you want but if you’re riding a Blackhawk onto the target…that’s louder than a couple mags clacking (same with a breaching charge). There’s a time and a place for everything but if Mogadishu taught guys anything it is that you don’t wanna be down to your last mag scavenging for one on the ground that has a few rounds left
It depends on the situation, if your a military unit with plenty of re supply then leave them. If you find yourself in a SHTF situation or a place where re supply is not available then maybe you don’t want to throw it away. Conservation of resources may be the most important factor. What situation are you planning/training for???
Mag retention practices come from expeditionary forces, scout units, airwhatever units. etc. that don't have infinite funding and support. Equipment retention/conservation is a whole lot more important for a paratrooper or an amphib grunt that has to consider and train for sustained combat operations, often under lesser or unsupported conditions. This is totally different than the raid ninjas with infinite equipment and supplies at their disposal. I think DJ is wrong saying it's an artificiality or rangeism, it's just a different mission, mindset and training for a different kind of operation.
As an instructor myself I push the idea that things are thought of and used for specific things. Some techniques and strategies can be used for multiple things however your mileage may vary. This guy has a lot of logistical support. Your average person doesn’t. So take everything with a grain of salt and sift through what you see and hear through the filter of your circumstances
Imagine him talking to his wife about changing diapers 😂
"Just dump it on the ground"
I have lots of friends and family in the IDF, they don't have extra mags back at base. Your mags and your mags. Also, not everyone goes in and out like Seals. Some guys have to be out there for days and weeks, you repack your mags in the field
"It's loud" You know what else is loud? Gunshots
Curious if you've ever hunted anything within 50yds?
@@billryan8721 "CuRiOuS iF yOu'Ve eVeR HuNteD AnYtHiNg wItHiN 50YdS?" yee yee ah comment youve made, go do 264x30 farmer carry
@@hetzapark sit down, comment section operator.
@@SatKap3 SiT dOwN, ComMeNt sEcTiOn OpErAtOr.
@hetzapark keep me under your skin angsty teenage comment section operator.
So I need to buy 500k magazines, so I can justify not picking them up ✅
Retaining your Magazines is _Boot Level Training._ If "CQB Ninjas" want to throw their lifeblood away ... oh well, ain't me.
Sure, you don't need to retrieve mags if you're spec ops and you have unlimited resources, and you're not worried about leaving evidence of who you are, then I get it. But if it's anything other than that, mags are gold, don't leave them behind.
Easy on the Marines, we were balling on a budget. At MARSOC all we had were connex's full of boot bands ordered by the former Motor T SgtMaj, so we'd look squared away while jumping canals in the Helmand.
Lol
I dare you to release a branded dump pouch
using a dump pouch just depends on your situation. Like guys in iraq and afghanistan where getting g dropped of via helicopter hitting a target and getting picked back up. they may do a mag change drop that mage that’s empty and forget about it because like he said back at base they have thousands and thousands of mags that can easily replace that on you lose where as guys in ukraine are needing to have dump pouches because good magazines for there AKs over there are hard to come buy especially considering it’s a near pear conflict where each side has jets that can strike the facilities manufacturing these magazines, so it just really depends on the situation that you in honestly
As President of the American Dump Pouch Society, I resent this video 😉
In Vietnam, Marines in Force Recon were taught to secure everything to make sure nothing jingled, not even a zipper slider; particularly metallic or plastic wrinkling noise. Yes things get noisy when the shooting started, but it is possible to move quietly enough to not be heard on the other side of a wall while doing room-clearing. At the highest level of combat efficiency and not in a subjugation / policing action, you can clear 4-5 rooms in a hallway and not be heard by the guys in the 6th room. Even if a gunfight ensued, anyone taking up an ambush wouldn't know exactly when or where the raid would come in.
Maintaining equipment en mass for the regular Army performing CQB to take-and-hold positions (i.e. not Marines or SF doing CQB raiding to eliminate everything that moves in a specific location), keeping up with mags may be more important. You've got several hundreds or even thousands of operators in something like a city, clearing buildings and expecting the population to return. You can leave a lot of mess behind and often you could be running into more civilians--people who secretly may be insurgents. The main goal there is to try and clear out the combatants and rush through to find storehouses for supplies, hideouts, maybe small command centers or whatnot across multiple city blocks.
At that point, letting everyone just drop their mags and leave them can cost millions of dollars. And at that point, yes there could be some material left behind for insurgents to find or collect in secret for some kind of use later.
But a small handful of SF guys getting into intense situations, executing the mission swiftly, quickly, and quietly becomes a lot more important and a few magazines left lying around isn't as big a deal.
I think it just depends on what you’re doing. If it’s a speed load of course I won’t retain it but a tac reload takes no extra time to stow in the dump pouch vs indexing it back into a mag pouch. I see the reason for both POVs. It really shouldn’t be as big of a deal as people make it to be. Different set ups for different things.
3:30... it makes noise? If you're dropping a mag you've already been shooting. These guys mis alot of context and it makes them look like they don't know what their talking about
I truly find DJ Shipley fascinating…he did a job and trained to be elite. It is amazing to see someone that dialed in…humbling.
Like absolute respect, but do y’all do these videos for people, or for SoF pats on the back? Would you also recommend us not having vehicles, cause we can just call in a bird?
But what if I can’t afford to constantly buy new mags when I larp around the house?
Whos house are you going into in the middle of the night? That's crazy, every cqb situation I've ever been in there was so much ambient noise that a couple mags knocking around in my dump pouch aren't going to be heard
In a firefight or hostile situation without the van full of thousands of magazines one may find it necessary to retain the only method they have for feeding their weapon lead.
@3:34, was that a magazine hitting the ground i heard? I know it was to quiet to be a supressed 5.56
Never put mags in my dump pouch, but as a K9 handler it definitely is a must for me to run. Super helpful.
dump pouches are great for Scooby snacks, i hear.
Ok understandable but what if HYPOTHETICALLY I'm in the American south east after a hurricane and for some reason my government isn't helping but is actually making the situation worse? Would it be a good idea to have a dump amd retain magazines then?
But no longer being down range is your opinion the same? Would you have a dump pouch in your go bag or your Shtf bag?
Would you guys ever be interested in doing a review on the flux raider? Would love to hear you guys opinions of it.
1:50 What’s the story of the cops picking up their brass?
His demeanor reminds me of my grandfather who did recon and combat missions in Vietnam as a Marine and then police officer for a decade. His hand motion, the voice tone, the beard, head nods, heck even clothing. It's almost like there's a universal cultural influence on some of these guys who go through real combat.
100% makes sense, it might have a cost up front but buy bulk mag bundles and split them into ones that you would use for actual situation and ones for training, and at the end of the training just pick them up and go over them see if anything has any signs of issue, fix or replace its that simple
I’m sure it makes sense for special forces and what not, but for regular people I’m sure it’s fine lol
Yes, I can see the USMC reasoning. We have to retain the mags because the Corp is constantly on the red when it comes to funds.
So, the dump pouches were certainly a range ism at first. We used them a lot during the shooting packages. Mainly because we would be loading our 45 pistol mags between relays. On hits, I really only ever used mine for TSE and to load it with stuff we found in the houses. My unit was nowhere as proficient at CQB as these guys and noise was not a concern as every hit was dynamic and we usually were rolling up in vehicles. He makes some very valid points.
It’s a very common misconception from civvies that the mags we carry on us are the only ones we have and we have to reuse them. I ran a dump pouch, it was used sparingly and when used, it was for throwing something in there quickly while bouncing out. Maybe a bit of Intel. It’s an extra place to stuff something quickly and they’re handy, but nobody is storing empty mags in there. I’ve also seen them used in firefights full of grenades when the boys were dug in and grinding one out.
What shoes and watch did you guys use back in the day? Thanks! You are an inspirational dude!
G-shock and Chuck Taylors or Nikes
My mags were $10-17 each. Im using a dump pouch 1:29
You pay for you're mags. We don't. So dropping a Pmag and leaving it doesn't matter
where did u draw the mags ?
What if you are behind enemy lines and there is no resupply coming. The mags you bring are the mags you got.
I don’t understand. What if it’s a tactical reload and there’s half a magazine full of ammo left? You dump the ammo to?
I've always wanted to dump Legos and Hotwheels with a jug of bubbles solution all over a shoot house and watching a dynamic entry 😂😂
If I could use tax payer money to purchase all the mags and ammo I wanted I wouldn’t pick one up either.
I love Fanny pack all day long, might not be for mags but lots of things close to me are nice
"back in my day"
Can you point me in the direction of the free magazine van?
Battle vs training vs no resupply. When I served and deployed, we went through great lengths to make sure that our gear did not make noise or would snag on something. As a civilian, I run a tightly rolled dump pouch on my training war belt which is especially great after a competition stage.
1. Infantry is trained to reload after target is secured.
2. An active gunfight, of course you aren’t keeping your mags. In a lull, when you’ve expended a lot of rounds, yeah you’re looking for mags.
I understand his point though it doesn’t apply to those of us not in battle being supplied with thousands of mags. That said, I’ve trained with many instructors. One in particular says do not handle empty mags. And he’s right. Eject it, leave it on ground and reload as quickly as possible. Yes, when the drill is over everyone gets their mags.
DJ dropped the JNCO reference...couldnt sneak out of the house wearing em. Mad respect.
I use mine for empty mags, so i dont try to reload an empty one from my kit. Its great for my D60 drum mag too. Im always using my dump pouch. The loudness factor? If im using mine...you already know im there.
Everyone: Watch the whole video before you make assumptions. Yes, in a combat environment with admin support for resupplies, when efficient movement and sound discipline is important, it is dumb to walk around with an open dump pouch. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have one one a range belt or even home defense/without rule of law battle belt setup. Just like a flashlight, you use it when it makes sense, and don't use it when it doesn't make sense.
2:18 hes wrong, the war in ukraine is just that reloading on the go you cant afford to leave mags behind. but agree with the noise
Think DJ may have more experience than you considering he was in Seal Team 6
It’s the difference between a US never ending gov backed supply and a near peer fight where logistics are not sound like the Ukraine front.
@@mattvickery15 Blackhawk down
In a building I’d be more concerned about the god damn thing snagging on a damn door knob. That said, this dude sure seems to exist in a different corner of reality.
I more concerned with why so many people are dropping empty mags. One I get, but you should always l be looking to tactically reload and if you have the time to do so you have the time to put the other mag away. How often are people emergency reloading? Because in that case I would fully understand dumping the mag and focusing on the reload and getting rounds down range.
Just train and be prepared to fight to your preference. I've never used a dump pouch, but I still practice retaining my mags.
At the end of the day it's your life and equipment.
Dump pouch is used for other purposes other than just empty mags.
Every situation is different. Know your application and environment.
Use your dump pouch.
GBRS, why didn't you design your mount as a QD? Is that a business decision or a tactile one?
Asking because I want to make the right choice.
Also, why bring the designator up away from the bore?
Is that to get it as close to your sight picture as possible?
TIA.
you know when i paintball my dump pouch is useful for a nut protector lol and losing mags in the woods can be a pain they get expensive!!😂😂
Love the consist uploads!
I'm going to say dump pouches ate situational. I deployed twice to Iraq during the early part of the war and when we would drop metal magazines, they would often get ran over by vehicles, damaged etc.
While we could go get new magazines when we were actually on base, we might not be on base for weeks at a time so there we are stuck with a magazine shortage.
That's why the development of the PMAG was so crucial. It can withstand being ran over and not damage like an aluminum magazine.
You could go back and pick it up later and still use it again.
Can't tell you how many times I had to stick my rifle cleaning rod into an aluminum magazine to try to get it to feed properly.
When you go to war, you found out really quickly that a lot of the training tactics that people use and the high speed stuff that they come up with during peace time, it really doesn't work.
Take room clearing for example. It is my opinion that dynamic room clearing is dangerous and will get you killed. The insurgents in Iraq knew this and they would often booby trap houses.
The Israeli limited penetration approach is way more effective than dumping into a room.
Tactics also change based on the equipment you have available. Let me explain.
During the Iraqi invasion, troops would often exit their vehicles and run to cover during fire.
In 2005, we were trained to stay in our vehicles because that's when we started getting the heavily armored vehicles. You're a lot safer in a armored vehicle than you were running and looking for some kind of cover.
At the end of the day, what I learned by doing two tours in combat is that everything is situational. There is no one size fits all approach.
Just look how the Ukrainians have used drones to their benefit. That absolutely amazed me. I never would have thought to be so innovative.
Depends on the situation. If you are forced to shoot dry, the speed of your reload may be the only way to survive.
This one is a real thinker. I 100% agree-ish for that specific CQB role. I dont know, a seal mission set is a lot different, and has a lot more support than any civilian, LE, or conventional forces would ever get so what he is saying is absolutely true. NSW units train to be on and off target as fast as possible and absolutely everything has to be streamlined. As for any other MIL unit, If any situation arose to where your exfil or support was not available or you are in a FORCEPRO role, you would likely want those mags, *if the situation allows*. Way too many known and current conflicts to where that is even a disputable fact. The issue arises because he doesn't caveat his thoughts, which is fine. My only pushback would be to assert its a "rangism". It certainly has a purpose, it becomes a "rangism" when they are seen in videos being for purposes not intended, like a waterbottle holster.
You should have stated this is for military application only! Not a civilian, we do not have magical mag drops for us. Believe me wish I did.