My dad shot a deer with OO Buck Shot at 90 yards back about 30 years ago. It was a very lucky shot with the deer running. Only one pellet hit the deer and it went in the eye and into the brain. No other damage on the deer. Crazy lucky shot.
I grew up in an old school deer camp and was taught dumb stuff like how to run a chainsaw at 8 years old by a bunch of Vietnam vets. There were around 200 guys in this club, maybe 7000 acres. We hunted timber, so a lot of people hunted with 00 buck. 50 yards is explosive on a whitetail. 70 is is pushing it. With modern chokes and ammo I imagine if you tuned it you could consistently get 5 pellets in the heart lings at 80 yds.
Your dad sounds like a scumbag if they took a shot that wasn't going to kill a deer quickly. He "got lucky" but he nearly put that thing into an excruciating death.
@@mwillbladeThe story I heard was a doe with one #1 buck pellet in the temple at 100 yards, about 30 years ago while I was on a dove hunt in North Florida.
@@Steve-ev6vx Then you must be familiar with the story of the hunter taking a picture with an eight-point he killed with the rifle in the deer antlers then the deer got up and ran away with the rifle still in the antlers.
40 yds is a pretty good general average max., totally load and gun compatible dependent, but you still need to pattern your exact setup on paper to be sure. Know your limit.
The people of Vietnam conducted many tests on US troops too,they found out that traps and PTSD works best on US troops for rest of their miserable life.
One reason why I generally don't use OO for home defense... the standard 9-pellet load (1350 fps) was designed to kill humans at 50 yards. At defensive ranges (10-12, maybe 15), it's more penetration than you typically need. A 24 or 27 pellet #4 load gives ample penetration and makes a lot more holes.
At fifty yards I promise you shot in shoulder deer will not go far. Probably not take another step. Further you begin to loose your pattern but if you get a pellet in right place it is leathal at hundred yards
At fifty yards I promise you shot in shoulder deer will not go far. Probably not take another step. Further you begin to loose your pattern but if you get a pellet in right place it is leathal at hundred yards When I hunted with shotgun we where chasing deer with hounds so if you wounded one hounds would catch it. I shot killed hundreds of bucks with shotgun no all running shots. In south shotguns are required for dog drive s cause standers are usually couple hundred yards apart. Not much of it still going on nothing like hearing a pack of hounds running a big buck or a black bear towards you to get your blood pumping. Last time I went it was deer season they jumped s big bear he crossed within ten yards . I shot a bear long time ago twice with a thirty thirty at five yards he ran about twenty yards and fell. Lot of adrenaline on that one. They have stopped bear hunting with hounds where I live.
I have shot lots of coyotes with shotguns using BB to 00 BUCK. I've found that copper plated lead penetrates way better than plain lead. Plain lead deforms easier and thick fur will bind to the lead and hinders the penetration. Copper plated seems to hold shape better and not bind up with fur, giving better penetration. I would like to see you guys test this on heavy clothing to see if your results would be similar to what I have seen with fur. I have also settled with #4 buck, copper plated for hunting and home defense. I use 2 3/4 and 3 in for home use and 3 1/2 in for hunting. Around the 70 yard range the 3 1/2 in #4 buck is still breaking leg bones on coyotes. Not the lbs of energy that the 00 buck carries but over three times better pattern and under 50 yards, even in 2 3/4 in, the 4 buck is devastating for any critter that could pose a threat where I live! Again, I would love to see you perform a plated and non plated test with heavy clothing! Thanks for the interesting vid!!
@Semper Fi On ranch land they're a blight. They kill herd animals and family pets, they breed like crazy. They're just a horrible liability and I know plenty of ranchers around here that annually get together for a coyote shoot.
I like #2 copper or nickel plated BUCK in a 3" magnum 12 gauge. With a paradox rifled 19" barrel on a Remington 1100, at 70 yards, it will pattern into 30". I wouldn't stand behind a corner of an average frame house with wood siding to protect me either. Now if you REALLY want anti-personnel rounds, get Vitt or Dynamit- Noble slugs from Germany. With my barrel and a 1.75X Weaver scope, I can put a dozen of them into 3" at 125 yards all the time. Even if you're wearing body armor, do you have any idea of the blunt force trauma you'll get? Your ribs will become the equivalent of shotgun pellets in your lungs, liver, stomach and the aorta. I have a load using Blue Dot powder that throws the 510 grain slug at 2300-odd FPS. That will cause an owhie at some range.
Quick heads up guys, if you use 00buck in your shotgun, 90% of 00buck rounds will go clean through an attacker in a home defense situation, use #4 or #1 buckshot. 00buck over penetrates too much.
it will do everything..you can kill small game for food and not obliterate it. you can kill large game at range. you can defend your home with it..just depends on what you feed it.
A Mossberg is like the most versatile gun ever. My maverick 88 can change barrels in a very short time. I keep it with a 18.5” barrel, but if I wanted to, I could kit it with a 28” field barrel and a choke and hunt bird or squirrel amazingly. Heck, I could probably grab a rifled barrel for slugs too
If I had to pick just one firearm for all purposes the 12ga with chokes is it. Birdshot for small game inside fifty up to 1 1/8 brenekke slugs for big game out to 150. Buckshot or slugs for antipersonnel. Only caveat, avoid getting into loud conflicts at range.
It would be interesting to see a gel block test using the Vietnam 12ga Flechette cartridges.Our 75th Ranger unit of the Americal employed these and a few other atypical armaments to include BAR's.All I know is that they would cut thru dense grass and other vegetation with ease and greater effect than the 00buck loads.I had a little cloth tobacco sack with a couple dozen of these as a war souvenir.Maybe not available any more.
I worked at a NH police department as a civilian, taking 911 calls where I met a great police officer who once shot a badguy at night with a single slug at 47 yards in the head from his Benelli semi-auto. His experience got me turned on to 20g and 12g shotguns as all around SD tools.
@@BallisticRadio any tips or knowledge you want to share about how you did it ? Did you talk on a podcast about it ? I'm inspired, congrats you look great !!
Bryan S. Ive always been one of those “support local businesses” people but between these videos, and the lower prices and shipping, I go to these guys for everything ammo. I don’t even have to be paid off to say that lol
Effective range is best from your bedroom door to the front door of your home [with some 300 pound dude forcing his way in and coming at you]. Excellent results at 10 yards, very effective.
Best thing to do is simple. Take your shotgun of choice and several different loads. Head to the range and shoot at different distances. Easy, fun and then you will know for sure what you and your particular shotgun will do.
What we learned doing that is any brand of 00 buckshot at inside the house ranges is going to flat blow anybody up, BUT it has to be aimed...very little spread at 10-20 feet...we've been burning up a box of birdshot every time we go to the range just to practice aim, and keep in touch with what we have -stoeger coach 12 gauge...
This has piqued my curiosity and I want to see it done with slugs now. If you have the space of course. To me slugs are what you carry incase you do need to take that long shot and can just slip one right in the chamber. To know how far that would truly be feasible would be very beneficial I think.
Ecosse57 barrel length has no effect on pattern, all that matters is the choke. Modern smokeless powder loads are designed to be completely burned within the first 14-18 inches, so you won’t see a difference in velocity either. Where barrel length is important is for balance and swinging on small, fast moving targets, which isn’t necessarily relevant for a martial shotgun.
Once a year I pattern my Winchester 1300 with a 24" cylinder bore using 9 or 12 pellet unplated 00. My arbitrary personal standard is how far away I can keep 1/2 of the pellets on an 8-1/2" x 11" sheet of paper. It is always good to 20 yards, but rarely at 25 yards. My shotgun with my ammo, YMMV.
Since relatively few people use short barrel shotguns, could you run a buckshot range penetration test with the more common 18", 20", and 26"/28" barrel guns? The velocity difference is significant, so it would be interesting to see what effect an additional 200+ FPS might have on terminal ballistics.
Thanks to your videos I’m actually getting a shotgun. Everybody seems to kinda throw them in the same bin as a .22 where you have to have one but there very situational and good for the vault. Effective range was actually one question I had thought about but if I wanted to tap something at a long range I was gonna rely on slugs
@@archer721 shit i wrote that before i even had a rifle and was just building off my first long gun. i still think a shotgun is effective more than rifle in certain situations but i got good with a ar to touch someone at 250 yards easily. still practice slugs because it somehow feels satisfying to hear 12 gauge slam into steel to what ever range you set it in well within 70 yards.
During the LA riots we rode 3 to 4 deep. On day 2 we heard officers yelling in radio "officers needs help, 3 officers down shot by a sniper". Two units were driving through an open alley. The second car watched as a gang member standing in an open field sprayed the first car with an AK-47. The officers a distance behind the first car got out and started shooting at the suspect (who didn't see the 2nd car) with shotgun rounds from a long distance 75 yards to no more than a 100 yards. They emptied their shotguns (old Ithacas). I asked the officer (who was involved) that was crying if they had killed the suspect and he said "No, by the time we ran up on him there were too many outside agencies there". He told me that one pellet had hit and opened up the suspects skull. I knew all three officers, one of them was Michael Strawberry, brother to Darryl Strawberry. After that time in my life I would practice with my Berretta at 50 yards, because we weren't issued rifles, but knew my shotgun, if given the right scenario with no bystanders could be used at that distance. articles.latimes.com/1993-11-05/news/mn-53523_1_peace-officer
@Semper Fi God how I wish you were wrong, LMAO. 4/29/92 is one of my worst days and I wanted to tear my badge and chuck as far as I could in frustration. The reason I shared this event was because the two shotgun nerds (they said it) were wondering the effect of 00 at that distance. They did a great job testing and coming to an accurate conclusion. I personally spoke to someone minutes after they helped save three officers lives by emptying their shotguns at those distances on a gang member with an AK47, because thats all they had besides their 92f's, no rifles back then in cop cars. Ithaca 37's was our issued shotgun. Its true, 00 buck can and did put someone down and keep them down with a pellet to the head at that range. I would love to get my hands on that OIS report and share the technical part with them.
Note: Federal 00B actually run .323" and 50 grains. Federal #1B actually run .286" and 33 grains. The velocity figures are from a 30" pressure barrel and run substantially less from the ultra - short barrel used in your test.
I use 00B in my 8x57 M48. They make great reduced loads for small game and are quite accurate. I use a fired case and reload without resizing. The load consists of 3-4 grains of Bullseye with a large pistol primer. The buckshot are lubricated by hand with bullet lubricant and hand press seated in the case. Using a chamfering tool, I chamfer the mouth of the case to remove any remains of any crimp to aid seating. The loads do not expand the case to any extent and can be field reloaded with simple tools. They make little noise when fired and I carry a few to dispatch red squirrels that like to perch above me on stand and make a ruckus. Instead of taking apart shotshells to recover the 00B, I buy a box or two of 00B shot for reloading and pour melted lubricant in the full plastic box they come in. Not only does this prevent accidental loss of shot from a spill, but protects the shot from oxidation.
I think it is more important at what distance the pattern remains tight. If you focus on that penetration is not a problem because there isn’t enough velocity using a shotgun for distance. For home defense I’d focus 15 yards or less.
I prefer #1 buckshot over double aught, because the double amount of pellets increases the hit probability and inside 25 yards, it’s just as effective. However, for home defense, I’m pushing #4 buckshot and on the streets, i prefer the #1 buckshot.
Looks like both loads were “reduced recoil” type with 1100 FPS listed velocity vs 1325 FPS listed velocity for standard 00 Buckshot loadings. (The 1100 FPS and 1325 FPS velocities were most likely chronographed from a 28” barrel.)
The problem with "standard velocity" at longer ranges is mach-trim, there's much higher air resistance at the speed of sound (Mach 1) so it very rapidly pushes it down to around 1100fps anyway (trim) so you get much more recoil for minimal gains. Also, trying to push the pellets to a greater velocity deforms the pellets more from the violence of internal ballistics, further increasing air-resistance. This is exploited by .22LR shooters to get a much narrower velocity variance. There's a reason that "reduced-recoil" buckshot has become so popular, that is all the velocity you need to reach minimum penetration thresholds at the ranges where you'd have sufficiently narrow spread. PS: the velocity changes very little with longer barrel lengths due to shotguns using such fast burning powder the pressure drops massively even within the first 12 inches. Though for the sportsman it matters as the front sight is significantly farther from the eye, the muzzle blast is lower and the point of origin is significantly farther away from the ears. Also, some sportsmen just prefer the momentum of a longer barrel. For a defensive shotgun, a long barrel just isn't practical. Also, it needs to fit into a gun-safe or police cruiser fully loaded without disassembly.
Sandy Sanders you probably have the observational skills of hellen keller. I’d say your wife/gf hates it but you don’t care cause you’re in the closet anyway
The shotgun is one of the most versatile defensive weapons ever developed. That said it depends on the person using it to maximize its effectiveness! Shooting a shotgun at a stationary target is a waste of its ability, that’s what rifles are for. The simple fact that the same gun can be used in a game of skeet and trap by simply changing it choke to a tighter pattern is proof of this. In skeet the max effective distance is 25 yds and a skeet choke the equivalent of improved cyl. on a tactical shotgun. It trap the full or trap choke os used to get a much further effective distance from 50 pls yds. Ask any duck hunter and he’ll have an array of extra tight chokes that will kill a duck or goose at a 100 yds. That’s why the double barrel shotgun is so popular so you can instantly choose the distance you need and increase your effectiveness as the target moves towards or away from you. The effectiveness of a shotgun is based on getting the shot to stay together until it gets to your target, not just one or two pellets. If you are happy with one or two pellets use a slug, gives you effective distances past 100 yds even in a smooth bore barrel!
Ken Corsell Well, in my area of SE Pa, we are allowed to use buckshot. I’ve shot many deer with my longer barrel Winchester Model 1200, 12Ga.(Now I’ve been using a 20 Ga. slug because of neck surgery), but, my point is is that I can easily shoot at a running deer with the 00, but I would never try it with the slug. Also, I have killed deer at 80-125 yards with the 00. The 125 one only had 1 pellet in it, but it was dead immediately; some closer ones were only wounded and needed a kill shot.
Love my maverick 88 first gun I bought had it for about 10 years now never had any issues bought it for 180 out the door at dicks back when they had dicks over the years put magpul furniture on it a streamlight flashlight a side shell holder and did some inside work to smooth it up thing runs like a champ and is my goto bump in the night gun.
Also without using the flight control Federal. Not that it doesn't work, just to demonstrate the differences in different ammo, chokes, and barrel lengths. OTOH, using gel for each test would get expensive. Mostly test the longer, +50 yard shots.
The point of the test was to determine the lethality of the pellet, they were just trying to hit the gel. It's hypothetical lethality of each pellet, not actual effectiveness.
That Flight Control stuff patterns amazingly thru a cylinder bore, exactly the way it's designed to do. I hate when people get on TH-cam and try to shoot this load thru chokes, and complain about its performance. If they only knew... They are only broadcasting their stupidity, for the whole world to see. lol. They obviously don't understand the design of this stuff. It was refreshing to see that you guys DO understand its design... Great lethality test, by the way. I'm a big fan of patterning buckshot. Its VERY HARD to duplicate those Flight Control patterns thru an open cylinder, when using regular buckshot, thru chokes. I've came close using .680, .690, and .700 restriction.
So have I.....I killed one at roughly 65 yards one time, it broke both front legs, and put 3 or 4 through his vitals. I wouldn't recommend shooting at this distance, I was a lot younger, but I can't argue with the results. Peace.
@@roykiefer7713 One thing that I was going to say, is that with a longer barrel comes more compression. With more compression comes a greater distance of the round at a higher velocity. So many different factors play a role in gun performance, as well as ammunition performance. But I think this good demonstration was just a general overview of how these particular firearms with these particular loads react. But at the end of the day, a Bullet is a bullet and a target is a target. No matter the caliper or the fact that it's a rifle or a pistol, they all have the potential to put you 6ft under. At the end of the day, the most dangerous gun is the one being pointed at you lol
Very interesting video... Curious what length barrel it is, looks like it could be around 14 inches ??? I would say the majority of us are not going to use something that short all of my shotguns are either 18" 20" and 24" and I can't be the only one who would like to see the test run with these more standard length barrels
I do wish that they had tried conventional ammo without the special wad. I feel like they could’ve at least compared it to the flight control wad. Then just one or two shots would’ve at least provided some sort of control for this experiment.
Great video guys. Personally, and from reading the comments below, can I say PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do this test again with regular, easy to get hold of #4 buckshot. Everyone can, and should do patterning at home, but I'm not seeing the penetration data for #4 anywhere online in anything like a scientific way. Many of us know what #4 will do re pattern, but are concerned about the power/range/penetration issue. Alternatively are there data already out there on #4 performance?
#4 buck is a good home defense load where you want stopping power but not to kill your neighbors. One gel test conducted concluded that past 15 yards the velocity dropped dramatically, and penetration was below 9 inches. Paul Harrel determined that #4 buck would penetrate your inside walls but probably not your exterior wall.
The beauty is that at distance, you can just rain lead, with a shotgun. Maybe dont want to do it in your culdesac, but if youre not worried about collateral, its probably more effective in a hurry, than a more precise weapon with higher performance.
As a Certified Instructor the best IN home defense weapon is a revolver 1 no safety to worry about 2 movement in tight areas 3 even a misfire cylinder still rotates. Shotguns are great if you have lots of room or distance to target(bedroom etc 10ft avg)
@@Tuton25 making it worse would be a difference. Still, what you said is the opposite of what would happen. A longer barrel and a full choke to tighten the pattern of the shot and will increase the likelihood of a hit and therefore increase the lethality. Its why some deer and turkey hunters use the very same setup that The Rooster is talking about. You apparently don't know seem to know what you're talking about.
@@Tuton25 How do you figure? A longer barrel and tighter choke will make for longer distance with a tighter pattern. With 00 buck in a full choke 30" barrel, Id trust shooting a human or whitetail at 75-100 yards.
The main reason why flitecontrol patterns so well is because the copper plated pellets don’t deform as they pass through the choke and this is also why a straight cylinder bore is the best for flitecontrol as well. The more deformed the pellets become, the less predictable the pattern becomes. If you have a full choked you’ll get the maximum deformation, and if you have a tighter choke shotgun dropping your pellet size will actually improve your pattern density. For a personal example, I have a Remington Model 11 with a fixed full choke, and with this particular gun I get a better pattern with Remington #4 buckshot than I do with similar 00 loads. As far as barrel length goes, there is no difference in velocity between barrel lengths as the powder is usually completely burned within the first 14” of barrel. There are plenty of videos of guys measuring the velocity of various loads out of things like the Mossberg Shockwave, and the numbers largely don’t deviate from the advertised numbers on the box. Barrel length is all about balance and swing. A short barrel is much faster than a long barrel and the longer the barrel then farther forward the center of gravity. That’s why in trap, with very consistent and predictable target presentations, you can see barrels as long as 34” being used regularly, whereas in trap and sporting clays, with much faster and unpredictable target presentations, 26” and 28” barrels are much more common than longer ones. One advantage that a longer barrel might have is in sight radius. The longer the sight radius the more noticeable minor deviations in sight picture become, but in this case it is largely negated by the use of red dots. Long barrels and tight chokes are a myth, there’d be no noticeable change or a decrease in pattern performance in this particular case.
Matt Marzula 5 years in firearms retail has taught me that most people’s understanding of firearms is based on voodoo and superstition rather than actual refined understanding.
Cool! I never used Buckshot, happy to learn more. I use a Shotgun for Sporting Clay, Grouse and Deer hunting. I'm going to try some Buckshot against rotting trees. They been asking for it!
I have a 12 ga. Iver Johnson that "was" a 36" goose gun. The barrel split and I had 8" cut off making it a 28" open bore. Good quail and rabbit gun. It hates 00s. Like throwing them out a your hand, but at 45 yards it would put every pellet of a #1 buck in your hat. If one or you guys have an open bore, I'd really be interested to see how it would stand up. Thanks
A few major things effect Buckshot's maximum effective range. Barrel length and load are the two most obvious and lastly the choke. I've seen 3 1/2 inch magnum turkey guns with tighter than Full Choke on them that coupled with the 26 barrel, they can EASILY be about as accurate as most 12 gauge 00 buck from an 18.5 cylinder bore or modified choke barrel at 25 yards only they produce similar patterns at excess of 50 yards. But lets say you're looking at a typical 00 buck load like a 9 pellet 2 3/4 shell in an 18.5 inch gun like a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870... They are still effective out to 40 yards easily. The bead sight originally was for a 100 yard zero with buckshot, but shotguns also for a long time had much longer barrels like 26 inches, 30, or more. But a general rule of thumb most shotguns, even with slugs their effective range is about 40 to 50 yards. Not that slugs or individual pellets cant reach out farther, but slugs drop off REAL hard out to 50 yards and individual pellets arent going to do a lot of damage in a lot of cases without different chokes and stuff. Personally... shotguns are probably the most versatile weapons out there with the right load/barrel/choke. And a 12 gauge 3 1/2 Magnum being the most versatile in terms of it's overall potential. While I dont believe in a one gun for everything kind of situation, a good 12 gauge 3 1/2 Magnum comes awful close.
A 100 yard zero with buckshot? That’s absurd, usually the standard POA is the center of the pattern at 40 yards, but that varies from manufacturer to manufacture, especially among clay guns.
@@Tuton25 Originally it was 100 yards. The idea was wherever the bead was pointed at, in 100 yards shot would pattern on the target. Modern bead sights I doubt are set to the same standard but I've taken some shots with buckshot in 26 inch barrels with full chokes and it will most certainly pattern on paper at that range. Not ideal in the slightest.... But like I said, that was the original concept, these days it's different as you pointed out. But yes, 40 is more the norm if you ask me. Maybe 50 or 60 depending on the gun.
Christopher No, you are wrong, you can go right on Brownings website where they explain exactly how they do it. The bead is center of pattern at 40 yards. Most field guns are “dead on” with target guns being set up differently given the context. www.browning.com/news/tech-terms/point-of-impact.html
At the patterning board, buckshot varies greatly from gun to gun , even the same barrel length and choke, pattern your own gun with different brands and go from there.
Would love to see a test on Single 0 ("0") buckshot. I heard it was a good choice for home defense since the bird and buck shot mix was a little safer (RE: wall penetration) but just as deadly at 'in house' distances. It also gave you the added advantage (in the inevitable civil law suite by the perpetrator's family) of letting you claim you were trying to use a less lethal round than "00".
A D.A. might just argue that you therefor got ammo specifically made to shoot people, instead of animals, and that was a sign you wanted to shoot instead of talk.
Well given that most commercial 00buck loads are actually .31/.32 caliber pellets instead of a true .33 most people already are using single aught...also a lot of #1 buck loads are actually #2 or #2 1/2 lol.
I know of hunters with either Super extra full chokes like wad wizard and pattern master units and those hunters with only IC chokes and your Federal Premium flight control or Hornady's Critical Defense, both reporting 55-60 yards being the outter most edge of that envolpe after that change over to slugs.
They were also using low FPS shells, what we use in law enforcement or military usually somewhere around the 1300 FPS range in 2 3/4 or 3 inch reaching higher velocities.
Agreed, I have a 1971 vintage Remington Wingmaster 870 with a 28" barrel with a modified choke. I'd be curious how that would do at 100 yards. I know with #4 buck I have nailed crows at over 50 yards. (With buck you have to make sure the angle of shot is very high.. Buck can carry a LONG way and still be pretty lethal and #4 buck is NOT the same as #4 birdshot)
@@archangele1 Yes. For many years where I live in Virginia, #4 buck out of a 3" shell through a full choke barrel was very popular for deer hunting in the woods. It worked. Shell technology has changed. I'd use bigger shot and maybe a modified choke with modern 'typical' buckshot today.
I chopped a 835 down to the next rail stud over 18" ( came out to 19.1" or something) and took the acumag choke that came on the barrel and cut the end piece of and turned it into a ring sight that I welded onto the sight rail that runs the length of the barrel. At 21' it does what all shotguns do. At 42' I am all nine on a 13" Aspen round. At 63' I lose 2 pellets , I haven't tried beyond that because I think 20 yards with a hacked barrel on a gun that is strictly a sd truck truck gun is just fine. Wanna maybe get it turned down for a choke but I think the barrel is to thin , oh well.
The justifications for self defense in most states would not allow the use of deadly force at anything even approaching 30 yards. Even 10 yards would be risky to use deadly force. Most jurisdictions expect "flight" as opposed to "fight" when it comes to self defense. In your own home there is no expectation of "flight" but the deadly defense of property, beyond the four walls of a residence, is risky. Yes you can argue all the nonsense about defending one's self and what a state will or will not exactly allow. Bottom line - kill or injure someone when you had other options is not a wise move and could land you in prison for a long time
John, please do a shotgun podcast with Chris on ballistic radio! And more dedicated revolver stuff with Caleb. TH-cam videos eat up my phone's data, but the podcasts you do help me get through my daily 4 hr commute. :D
With the tps wad in a 3.5” hull I can shoot out to 60 yards and still get beach ball sized groups. 3 ounce 10 gauge loads with 16 pellets of 0000 buck .38 caliber can easily reach to 80 and pattern the same.
Should have carried #4 buck in 3" chamber. t's my go-to for winter coyotes. I don't hesitate within 40 yards, with the right choke and load 70yards is plausible.
I think the bigger factor is shot placement, a hit to the gut or large muscle group simply does not make it physically impossible for them to keep going. But getting any hit at all is likely better than a miss and even if you do miss buckshot is probably the least dangerous to bystanders. As dangerous animals tend to move around so much missing is going to be more of a problem than an armed criminal who tends not to try to shoot at full sprint.
Need to let people know that using regular shells with typical wadding will not produce the grouping you got using the flightcontrol ammo. Using the flightcontrol lets you produce a grouping better than a full choke can get, while using an open bore shotgun. If you have an open bore shotgun and need tighter grouping use the Federal FliteControl ammo.
gary smallwood one of my old work colleagues who fought in the Malayan conflict British army South Wales borderers regiment in the 1960s jungle warfare said to me that he always on point and when they occasionally came across communist fighters on jungle tracks the shotgun was the best weapon and would drop them through the trash but in the confusion all the rest of them would open fire 360 d with every weapon they had , nothing like the movies he told me so moral of the story is shotgun always did the job .
@@MrInzombia *The topic of this video wasn't what type of Buckshot "works so well", it's about "the Maximum Effective Range of 12 Gage Buckshot".* *000 Buck shot size is larger, they fly faster, and further than 00 Buck, so Maximum Effective Range would have been superior to all that was tested here, and "interesting".* *Your opinion of "valuable gain" would be relevant to one personal philosophy of use, and not to this video's topic.* *FWI on value; **th-cam.com/video/rhZf_x8Esms/w-d-xo.html** - Enjoy!*
Federal should make a #4 buck in this loading. Not that it would be any better beyond 25 yards but for when over penetration would be of concern in home defense it is probably more useful. Even though #1 buck is closer to meeting this concern than the #00 buck is.
I can’t envision any scenario where a private citizen would fire in self defense beyond 25 yards. I think most cases where a private citizen was compelled to use a firearm in self defense, the distance was less than 25 yards.
Some years back I read an article about a guy and his hunting buddy who had not seen any deer all day. They were standing by their truck--knocking down a beer when his buddy exclaimed he saw a deer. While saying this the guy scooped up his shotgun and fired at the deer--over 100 yards away! He was astounded that the deer fell. Getting to the deer--they discovered a second deer his buddy did not see when he fired!! Both deer dropped at the shot even though the distance was over 100 yards!! Both deer were hit by ONE pellet each---right in their ear canal!! This has to be the luck shot of the century. His buddy bragged for years about how his gun would kill with buckshot at 100 yards--- not understanding it was pure luck.
I have a number of shotguns with open choke and modified choke. You have to pattern your shotgun with the specific load. One shotgun creates a donut hole pattern and is only good to 20 yards with lead 00B pellets while another can put perhaps 6 pellets in target out to 50 yards.
For everybody touting 4 Buck: Doc Roberts, who has done extensive ammo testing, has stated that 1 Buck is the smallest diameter pellet size that consistently meets the FBI testing protocol, i.e. penetrates at least 12”.
Great video! Shotgun is my HD choice. Now that I'm older, I'm having trouble with handgun sights. Please do a video to help shooters who wear bifocals and trifocals. Also, what is a good shooting drill to let us know when it's time to give up on handguns for HD.
I'd love to se a video on bi and trifocals. I was at the range the other day training someone who was having trouble because of their glasses.ove done a lot of training but I didn't know how to address their issue. I've never thought about it before or seen anything covering it
“Inside 25, the shotgun is devastating.” That statement is very telling. These tests are conducted with certain scenarios involving “deer-sized game” in mind, and the ranges many people contemplate engaging such targets with a shotgun tend to be overestimated, at least in my mind. And while the 00 buck was clearly pretty effective at 50, I don’t get trying to push these tests out to 100 yards with a shotgun, at least from a realistic standpoint.
I think the question was "why a shotgun over a rifle" or "why 18 pellet 00 buck when Federal flitecontrol is better" not why have a defensive tool at all. Middle of nowhere living screams AR with some federal fusion or OTM to me.
@@Jarhead1775 And that's a fair point. If you expect the engagement to be at hallway distance at the entrance and not engaging in the open area around you you're good to go. Plus no worries about neighbors due to overpenetration. Since you're a lucky gunner fan no need to explain intermediate rifle calibers penetrate less than even 00 buck. You have a neat exception to the "always AR" rule of HD.
@@ericmckinley5777 Yes huge fan of the channel. My home defense plan is have your house lit up like a Christmas tree in one part of the house where everyone comes in. Then motion sensors light up where you normally don't have have traffic. So you know where the threat is at.
I would love to see #4 buckshot tested like this! I've heard that #4 buckshot struggles to penetrate deeply after 30 yards or so. If you need a FliteControl wad, Hornady has a VersaTite wad loading for #4 buckshot that is commonly available.
In the 60s. My Father and a friend developed and patented a Buckshot load for deer in NJ. It had 8 .36 cal 000 buck in front of 4&1/2 drams of powder. The balls were separated by lifters. It would put all 8 balls in a 5ft circle at 100 yards. At 50 yards it was so tight we had to index the shell to get a horizontal pattern. Typically 18" x8" at 50 yards He had to put rifle sights on our Model 12.
Slugs have a effective range of about 60 yards can be shot out to a 100 yard's, but it loses velocity, now with a threaded shotgun barrel, using Sabot rounds 100 yards effective, 150 or better range with average accuracy.
@@biteme19671 And yet IraqVeteran8888 did a video showing that they still have the velocity to kill past 400 yards. With just about any projectile it will be dangerous much further than it can be accurately aimed.
@@biteme19671 As I've already alluded, effective range is when you cannot accurately place your shot anymore. Max range is where it stops killing you. a 1 ounce slug falling out of an airplane will be going fast enough to kill when it hits the ground. The primary limiting factor for most firearms is accuracy.
All this talk about shot patterning and you're not even going to mention chokes? The kind of choke (or lack of choke) you're shooting through is a critically relevant piece of information when you're talking about how a load patterns.
Agreed, but I assume that they are addressing the very most basic situation in order to get an idea of how the loads work. The video is info about the effective range of the shotgun shell not the choke, but I do agree. The results would be very very different.
What choke they are using is kinda irrelevant being every shotgun is different. Your buddies 870 will pattern different than your 590 that's why they say always patter YOUR shotgun with your chosen load. He did however mention his had that vancomp barrel which is similar to a modified choke if I remember right.
@@zaynehulvey8546 Yes. The main point of this video is penetration depth in gel and choke doesn't matter for that. I liked seeing that data. That kind of terminal performance at various distances data is very useful in ammunition selection. As for choke, for self-defense in most scenarios an unchoked/cylinder bore is an easy decision. Indoors or at similar close ranges where shotguns are usually employed we're looking at very little spread from most chokes. Some spread is ideal, we don't want all the shot to hit in one place as a clump. Rifled bores spread even more, but the pattern clusters at the edge of the pattern which is bad. I just meant to point out that they spent quite a bit of time digressing from the main subject and talking about how loads patterned at distance without mentioning the key variable, which is the choke. How a shotgun is (or isn't) choked determines the pattern at distance more than anything else. I'm guessing they weren't using a tight choke since they probably would have mentioned it and the context seemed to be mostly about self-defense even though hunting was mentioned.
The distance of large gauges shot gun buckshot is great for 12 ga., better at 10ga. And wonderful in my 1886 8 ga. Greener double barrel shotgun. It opens doors, shot Bill Doolin, and backed down a 30 person riot in my town. Don't mess with the old Greener. From the deep south in the far north. Nice podcast, thanks.
Inside the house that birdshot will ruin someone's day...although our 2nd option in that regard would be #6 gameload, just a little bit heavier...and both are easier for the lawyer defending you in the communist states...
If you need more distance range and penetration consider getting a Remington Model 870 Pump Action Shotgun chambered for the 3 and a half inch magnum load. you can still shoot the 3 inch magnum load and also the conventional original 2 and 3 Quarter inch shell. Very versatile very powerful and very reliable with endurance qualities to last a life time and a wide range of interchangeable barrels like those that are rifled for rifled slug rounds.
Everything you just said with the exception of interchangable barres is true of Benelli. It is also very reliable. I bought a tactical version for only 500.00 NEW! This shotgun is so easy to shoot and has never presented me with any malfuctions at all. I also love the Remington.
This renews my desire to SBS my Mossberg Shockwave. I have the SB Tactical "brace" on it but the Magpul stock is the most comfortable shotgun stock I have ever used. It would be so nice on the Mossy.
![Stuff You Should Know About Buckshot [Part 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3haq5BFh7qs/mqdefault.jpg)
My dad shot a deer with OO Buck Shot at 90 yards back about 30 years ago. It was a very lucky shot with the deer running. Only one pellet hit the deer and it went in the eye and into the brain. No other damage on the deer. Crazy lucky shot.
I heard the same story about 40yrs. ago.
I grew up in an old school deer camp and was taught dumb stuff like how to run a chainsaw at 8 years old by a bunch of Vietnam vets. There were around 200 guys in this club, maybe 7000 acres. We hunted timber, so a lot of people hunted with 00 buck. 50 yards is explosive on a whitetail. 70 is is pushing it. With modern chokes and ammo I imagine if you tuned it you could consistently get 5 pellets in the heart lings at 80 yds.
Your dad sounds like a scumbag if they took a shot that wasn't going to kill a deer quickly.
He "got lucky" but he nearly put that thing into an excruciating death.
@@mwillbladeThe story I heard was a doe with one #1 buck pellet in the temple at 100 yards, about 30 years ago while I was on a dove hunt in North Florida.
@@Steve-ev6vx Then you must be familiar with the story of the hunter taking a picture with an eight-point he killed with the rifle in the deer antlers then the deer got up and ran away with the rifle still in the antlers.
They ran these test in Vietnam and the end result was 40 yards to be able to hit consistently and still drop someone.
@Null killing people is so funny
Yeah but they didn't allow three inch magnum with steel shot goose load's!
40 yds is a pretty good general average max., totally load and gun compatible dependent, but you still need to pattern your exact setup on paper to be sure. Know your limit.
i ran it in call of duty and i have to agree
The people of Vietnam conducted many tests on US troops too,they found out that traps and PTSD works best on US troops for rest of their miserable life.
One reason why I generally don't use OO for home defense... the standard 9-pellet load (1350 fps) was designed to kill humans at 50 yards. At defensive ranges (10-12, maybe 15), it's more penetration than you typically need. A 24 or 27 pellet #4 load gives ample penetration and makes a lot more holes.
Ok so,
00 for up to 50 yards
Slug for anything more.
Good to know.
I use 000 auth buck shot
I would trim that down to around 30 yards unless you can get a head shot
At fifty yards I promise you shot in shoulder deer will not go far. Probably not take another step. Further you begin to loose your pattern but if you get a pellet in right place it is leathal at hundred yards
At fifty yards I promise you shot in shoulder deer will not go far. Probably not take another step. Further you begin to loose your pattern but if you get a pellet in right place it is leathal at hundred yards
When I hunted with shotgun we where chasing deer with hounds so if you wounded one hounds would catch it. I shot killed hundreds of bucks with shotgun no all running shots. In south shotguns are required for dog drive s cause standers are usually couple hundred yards apart. Not much of it still going on nothing like hearing a pack of hounds running a big buck or a black bear towards you to get your blood pumping. Last time I went it was deer season they jumped s big bear he crossed within ten yards . I shot a bear long time ago twice with a thirty thirty at five yards he ran about twenty yards and fell. Lot of adrenaline on that one. They have stopped bear hunting with hounds where I live.
@@charlesputnam9370 nice Massachusetts outlawed hunting with dogs back in the 80s but still can't use a rifle shotgun only and no hunting on Sunday .
sooo... discussion on lethality of firearm... but Dat T-shirt :D
I have shot lots of coyotes with shotguns using BB to 00 BUCK. I've found that copper plated lead penetrates way better than plain lead. Plain lead deforms easier and thick fur will bind to the lead and hinders the penetration. Copper plated seems to hold shape better and not bind up with fur, giving better penetration. I would like to see you guys test this on heavy clothing to see if your results would be similar to what I have seen with fur. I have also settled with #4 buck, copper plated for hunting and home defense. I use 2 3/4 and 3 in for home use and 3 1/2 in for hunting. Around the 70 yard range the 3 1/2 in #4 buck is still breaking leg bones on coyotes. Not the lbs of energy that the 00 buck carries but over three times better pattern and under 50 yards, even in 2 3/4 in, the 4 buck is devastating for any critter that could pose a threat where I live! Again, I would love to see you perform a plated and non plated test with heavy clothing! Thanks for the interesting vid!!
@Yard Sale Dale last time I checked they awfully expensive to dump many on coyotes
@Semper Fi On ranch land they're a blight. They kill herd animals and family pets, they breed like crazy. They're just a horrible liability and I know plenty of ranchers around here that annually get together for a coyote shoot.
Semper Fi they taste like chicken
I like #2 copper or nickel plated BUCK in a 3" magnum 12 gauge. With a paradox rifled 19" barrel on a Remington 1100, at 70 yards, it will pattern into 30". I wouldn't stand behind a corner of an average frame house with wood siding to protect me either. Now if you REALLY want anti-personnel rounds, get Vitt or Dynamit- Noble slugs from Germany. With my barrel and a 1.75X Weaver scope, I can put a dozen of them into 3" at 125 yards all the time. Even if you're wearing body armor, do you have any idea of the blunt force trauma you'll get? Your ribs will become the equivalent of shotgun pellets in your lungs, liver, stomach and the aorta. I have a load using Blue Dot powder that throws the 510 grain slug at 2300-odd FPS. That will cause an owhie at some range.
Learned something..thanks...
Close and personal is the best . Speak to the 20 yard howitzer . Clean sweep weapon .
Quick heads up guys, if you use 00buck in your shotgun, 90% of 00buck rounds will go clean through an attacker in a home defense situation, use #4 or #1 buckshot. 00buck over penetrates too much.
The 1100fps loads they used in this penetrate a lot less than your average 00buck loads which can be 1300-1600fps, causing over penetration.
Another shotgun NERD here, I would say the best overall tool anyone could own.
it will do everything..you can kill small game for food and not obliterate it. you can kill large game at range. you can defend your home with it..just depends on what you feed it.
A Mossberg is like the most versatile gun ever. My maverick 88 can change barrels in a very short time. I keep it with a 18.5” barrel, but if I wanted to, I could kit it with a 28” field barrel and a choke and hunt bird or squirrel amazingly. Heck, I could probably grab a rifled barrel for slugs too
@@calebnation7797 So its not wise to shoot slugs out of my maverick 88 18.5 barrel?
If I had to pick just one firearm for all purposes the 12ga with chokes is it. Birdshot for small game inside fifty up to 1 1/8 brenekke slugs for big game out to 150. Buckshot or slugs for antipersonnel.
Only caveat, avoid getting into loud conflicts at range.
@@davidmcleod6032 can you tell me why the choke and what's its purpose?
It would be interesting to see a gel block test using the Vietnam 12ga Flechette cartridges.Our 75th Ranger unit of the Americal employed these and a few other atypical armaments to include BAR's.All I know is that they would cut thru dense grass and other vegetation with ease and greater effect than the 00buck loads.I had a little cloth tobacco sack with a couple dozen of these as a war souvenir.Maybe not available any more.
not that many people seem to know about those! my neighbor told me about how he preferred to use them back in vietnam. he was actually a marine tho
I worked at a NH police department as a civilian, taking 911 calls where I met a great police officer who once shot a badguy at night with a single slug at 47 yards in the head from his Benelli semi-auto. His experience got me turned on to 20g and 12g shotguns as all around SD tools.
This smells a bit like fudd lore.
Dude, John lost a TON of weight! Good for you, killer! Get some!
Heath Mitchell thanks!
Holy shit I thought that was him but wasn't sure! He looks great good for him!
@@BallisticRadio any tips or knowledge you want to share about how you did it ? Did you talk on a podcast about it ? I'm inspired, congrats you look great !!
@@BallisticRadio You've already heard it a bunch but damn you look good. Congrats! Love your work.
Looking Good John. Feels great to loose weight.
Lucky Gunner is top notch. Their prices are good to great and they ship to my house as fast as Prime every order I've placed.
Lucky u. They've messed up my billing 2x now.
@@bjblazkowicziii3279 Hate that for you. My experiences have all been positive. Did they take care of it fast or not?
Bryan S. Ive always been one of those “support local businesses” people but between these videos, and the lower prices and shipping, I go to these guys for everything ammo. I don’t even have to be paid off to say that lol
They did not.
Except they gouge you on shipping.
Great channel. Pretty bad ammo prices after S+H
It’s actually pretty impressive that they were able to get any pellets in the gel at that distance.
pattern your gun with your preferred ammo and choke. it's a good idea to know what you have.
Effective range is best from your bedroom door to the front door of your home [with some 300 pound dude forcing his way in and coming at you]. Excellent results at 10 yards, very effective.
Best thing to do is simple. Take your shotgun of choice and several different loads. Head to the range and shoot at different distances. Easy, fun and then you will know for sure what you and your particular shotgun will do.
very good advice,
thats great advise but, i guess not everybody has that option, like police state residents
@@LedzeppelinDogsGuns can't help that. don't live in one of those and never will.
@@imwatchin7770 It ain't all bad. You haven't really lived until you seen a gelatin test using rock salt instead of buckshot.
What we learned doing that is any brand of 00 buckshot at inside the house ranges is going to flat blow anybody up, BUT it has to be aimed...very little spread at 10-20 feet...we've been burning up a box of birdshot every time we go to the range just to practice aim, and keep in touch with what we have -stoeger coach 12 gauge...
This has piqued my curiosity and I want to see it done with slugs now. If you have the space of course. To me slugs are what you carry incase you do need to take that long shot and can just slip one right in the chamber. To know how far that would truly be feasible would be very beneficial I think.
Slugs will kill out to 300yds if you can make the hit. No different than a large rifle like 45-70, save for energy.
I would have liked to see a more realistic 18"-20" length barrel with other chokes. Still neat to see, though.
FliteControl works best out of a cylinder bore. Chokes will actually make the pattern wider.
@@LuckyGunner ok, but how about a barrel length of 18" or more?
Ecosse57 barrel length has no effect on pattern, all that matters is the choke. Modern smokeless powder loads are designed to be completely burned within the first 14-18 inches, so you won’t see a difference in velocity either. Where barrel length is important is for balance and swinging on small, fast moving targets, which isn’t necessarily relevant for a martial shotgun.
Once a year I pattern my Winchester 1300 with a 24" cylinder bore using 9 or 12 pellet unplated 00. My arbitrary personal standard is how far away I can keep 1/2 of the pellets on an 8-1/2" x 11" sheet of paper. It is always good to 20 yards, but rarely at 25 yards. My shotgun with my ammo, YMMV.
Also with higher velocity shot not low recoil
Since relatively few people use short barrel shotguns, could you run a buckshot range penetration test with the more common 18", 20", and 26"/28" barrel guns? The velocity difference is significant, so it would be interesting to see what effect an additional 200+ FPS might have on terminal ballistics.
There's typically going to be less than 100 fps difference in barrels between 14" and 26"
That does not jibe with the research I've seen.
Yeah shotgun velocity really doesn’t increase like a rifle with a long barrel…
@@zackzittel7683Look up the Small Arms Review article titled ENERGY BY THE INCH THE GREAT SHOTGUN CHOP OF 2007.
Thanks to your videos I’m actually getting a shotgun. Everybody seems to kinda throw them in the same bin as a .22 where you have to have one but there very situational and good for the vault. Effective range was actually one question I had thought about but if I wanted to tap something at a long range I was gonna rely on slugs
At range… I’m going to rely on a rifle!😉
@@archer721 shit i wrote that before i even had a rifle and was just building off my first long gun. i still think a shotgun is effective more than rifle in certain situations but i got good with a ar to touch someone at 250 yards easily. still practice slugs because it somehow feels satisfying to hear 12 gauge slam into steel to what ever range you set it in well within 70 yards.
During the LA riots we rode 3 to 4 deep. On day 2 we heard officers yelling in radio "officers needs help, 3 officers down shot by a sniper". Two units were driving through an open alley. The second car watched as a gang member standing in an open field sprayed the first car with an AK-47. The officers a distance behind the first car got out and started shooting at the suspect (who didn't see the 2nd car) with shotgun rounds from a long distance 75 yards to no more than a 100 yards. They emptied their shotguns (old Ithacas). I asked the officer (who was involved) that was crying if they had killed the suspect and he said "No, by the time we ran up on him there were too many outside agencies there". He told me that one pellet had hit and opened up the suspects skull. I knew all three officers, one of them was Michael Strawberry, brother to Darryl Strawberry. After that time in my life I would practice with my Berretta at 50 yards, because we weren't issued rifles, but knew my shotgun, if given the right scenario with no bystanders could be used at that distance.
articles.latimes.com/1993-11-05/news/mn-53523_1_peace-officer
Boring
Thanks for sharing your story.
@Semper Fi God how I wish you were wrong, LMAO. 4/29/92 is one of my worst days and I wanted to tear my badge and chuck as far as I could in frustration. The reason I shared this event was because the two shotgun nerds (they said it) were wondering the effect of 00 at that distance. They did a great job testing and coming to an accurate conclusion. I personally spoke to someone minutes after they helped save three officers lives by emptying their shotguns at those distances on a gang member with an AK47, because thats all they had besides their 92f's, no rifles back then in cop cars. Ithaca 37's was our issued shotgun. Its true, 00 buck can and did put someone down and keep them down with a pellet to the head at that range. I would love to get my hands on that OIS report and share the technical part with them.
You're welcome.@@Andrewsky347
Note: Federal 00B actually run .323" and 50 grains. Federal #1B actually run .286" and 33 grains. The velocity figures are from a 30" pressure barrel and run substantially less from the ultra - short barrel used in your test.
Shotguns burn almost all of their powder, read 90+% by 12 inches of barrel.
I use 00B in my 8x57 M48. They make great reduced loads for small game and are quite accurate. I use a fired case and reload without resizing. The load consists of 3-4 grains of Bullseye with a large pistol primer. The buckshot are lubricated by hand with bullet lubricant and hand press seated in the case. Using a chamfering tool, I chamfer the mouth of the case to remove any remains of any crimp to aid seating. The loads do not expand the case to any extent and can be field reloaded with simple tools.
They make little noise when fired and I carry a few to dispatch red squirrels that like to perch above me on stand and make a ruckus.
Instead of taking apart shotshells to recover the 00B, I buy a box or two of 00B shot for reloading and pour melted lubricant in the full plastic box they come in.
Not only does this prevent accidental loss of shot from a spill, but protects the shot from oxidation.
I think it is more important at what distance the pattern remains tight. If you focus on that penetration is not a problem because there isn’t enough velocity using a shotgun for distance. For home defense I’d focus 15 yards or less.
I prefer #1 buckshot over double aught, because the double amount of pellets increases the hit probability and inside 25 yards, it’s just as effective. However, for home defense, I’m pushing #4 buckshot and on the streets, i prefer the #1 buckshot.
Looks like both loads were “reduced recoil” type with 1100 FPS listed velocity vs 1325 FPS listed velocity for standard 00 Buckshot loadings. (The 1100 FPS and 1325 FPS velocities were most likely chronographed from a 28” barrel.)
The problem with "standard velocity" at longer ranges is mach-trim, there's much higher air resistance at the speed of sound (Mach 1) so it very rapidly pushes it down to around 1100fps anyway (trim) so you get much more recoil for minimal gains. Also, trying to push the pellets to a greater velocity deforms the pellets more from the violence of internal ballistics, further increasing air-resistance. This is exploited by .22LR shooters to get a much narrower velocity variance.
There's a reason that "reduced-recoil" buckshot has become so popular, that is all the velocity you need to reach minimum penetration thresholds at the ranges where you'd have sufficiently narrow spread.
PS: the velocity changes very little with longer barrel lengths due to shotguns using such fast burning powder the pressure drops massively even within the first 12 inches. Though for the sportsman it matters as the front sight is significantly farther from the eye, the muzzle blast is lower and the point of origin is significantly farther away from the ears. Also, some sportsmen just prefer the momentum of a longer barrel.
For a defensive shotgun, a long barrel just isn't practical. Also, it needs to fit into a gun-safe or police cruiser fully loaded without disassembly.
Dang, is that the same John Johnson as the shoot better drills? Christ he lost Hella Weight. He looks great, keep it up john!
Basil Staros No homo
It's Crack. Lol. J/k.
John lost weight. Lookin good brother
Looks like it.
Thanks!
Born Unloved I recognized the range first and used context clues to figure out “oh shit that’s John”
@@bishopm4401 lol me too! He lost a TON of weight, good for him. Need to emulate him!
Sandy Sanders you probably have the observational skills of hellen keller.
I’d say your wife/gf hates it but you don’t care cause you’re in the closet anyway
The shotgun is one of the most versatile defensive weapons ever developed. That said it depends on the person using it to maximize its effectiveness! Shooting a shotgun at a stationary target is a waste of its ability, that’s what rifles are for. The simple fact that the same gun can be used in a game of skeet and trap by simply changing it choke to a tighter pattern is proof of this. In skeet the max effective distance is 25 yds and a skeet choke the equivalent of improved cyl. on a tactical shotgun. It trap the full or trap choke os used to get a much further effective distance from 50 pls yds. Ask any duck hunter and he’ll have an array of extra tight chokes that will kill a duck or goose at a 100 yds. That’s why the double barrel shotgun is so popular so you can instantly choose the distance you need and increase your effectiveness as the target moves towards or away from you. The effectiveness of a shotgun is based on getting the shot to stay together until it gets to your target, not just one or two pellets. If you are happy with one or two pellets use a slug, gives you effective distances past 100 yds even in a smooth bore barrel!
Ken Corsell Well, in my area of SE Pa, we are allowed to use buckshot. I’ve shot many deer with my longer barrel Winchester Model 1200, 12Ga.(Now I’ve been using a 20 Ga. slug because of neck surgery), but, my point is is that I can easily shoot at a running deer with the 00, but I would never try it with the slug. Also, I have killed deer at 80-125 yards with the 00. The 125 one only had 1 pellet in it, but it was dead immediately; some closer ones were only wounded and needed a kill shot.
Glad to find a channel with a lot of focus on shotguns. Thanks.
Love my maverick 88 first gun I bought had it for about 10 years now never had any issues bought it for 180 out the door at dicks back when they had dicks over the years put magpul furniture on it a streamlight flashlight a side shell holder and did some inside work to smooth it up thing runs like a champ and is my goto bump in the night gun.
Looks like you used your Short Barrel Shotgun. Also custom barrel. Would like to see it with standard 870, 18 inch cylinder bore.
Also without using the flight control Federal. Not that it doesn't work, just to demonstrate the differences in different ammo, chokes, and barrel lengths. OTOH, using gel for each test would get expensive. Mostly test the longer, +50 yard shots.
Charles Phillips real men use short barrels 😎
@@Conky88 How's your wife's boyfriend doing?
The point of the test was to determine the lethality of the pellet, they were just trying to hit the gel. It's hypothetical lethality of each pellet, not actual effectiveness.
@@Wizzm957 But the lethality of the pellets depends on their velocity. A longer barrel will produce higher velocities.
That Flight Control stuff patterns amazingly thru a cylinder bore, exactly the way it's designed to do. I hate when people get on TH-cam and try to shoot this load thru chokes, and complain about its performance. If they only knew... They are only broadcasting their stupidity, for the whole world to see. lol. They obviously don't understand the design of this stuff. It was refreshing to see that you guys DO understand its design... Great lethality test, by the way. I'm a big fan of patterning buckshot. Its VERY HARD to duplicate those Flight Control patterns thru an open cylinder, when using regular buckshot, thru chokes. I've came close using .680, .690, and .700 restriction.
I run a Remington 870 with a 30 inch full choke. At 80 yards it still has a good pattern. Turkey gun.
Yeah for cylender bore this is impressive, but with a tight choked gun you can definitely do better
1m running a stevens savage 530a with 30 inch fullchoked. It patterns good still at 100 yards. Duckgun
Brass fechter did this years ago. 50 yards is good to go.
A few years ago coyote hunting with my pops, he dumped one at 83 yards with 00. Tore it up. I think only one or two pellets even hit.
@mtman2 .33 actually
I shoot hogs out to 100 with it all the time.
I've killed deer at 50 yrs w/ Winchester copper plated 00 buck an it passed thru completely except for head an pelvis.
Murderer! You should buy meat at the grocery store so no animal has to die!
@@liljackypaper your fuckin jokeing right
@JKay11235 Yes I do, but just got slammed by some bunny huggers about taking out invasive species in my home state of FLA, on another channel.
So have I.....I killed one at roughly 65 yards one time, it broke both front legs, and put 3 or 4 through his vitals. I wouldn't recommend shooting at this distance, I was a lot younger, but I can't argue with the results. Peace.
@@liljackypaper / yr a funny gd bastard
Excellent video, gentlemen; I learned a lot. Wouldn’t barrel length, choke size and shell length make major differences in the results?
It 100% would, also quality of ammo plays a huge role in the behavior of rounds at any given length.
@@andrewfields8556
Absolutely.
@@roykiefer7713 One thing that I was going to say, is that with a longer barrel comes more compression. With more compression comes a greater distance of the round at a higher velocity. So many different factors play a role in gun performance, as well as ammunition performance. But I think this good demonstration was just a general overview of how these particular firearms with these particular loads react. But at the end of the day, a Bullet is a bullet and a target is a target. No matter the caliper or the fact that it's a rifle or a pistol, they all have the potential to put you 6ft under. At the end of the day, the most dangerous gun is the one being pointed at you lol
Very interesting video...
Curious what length barrel it is, looks like it could be around 14 inches ???
I would say the majority of us are not going to use something that short all of my shotguns are either 18" 20" and 24" and I can't be the only one who would like to see the test run with these more standard length barrels
Good to know if you have a Shockwave or a V3 Tax-13, though.
I do wish that they had tried conventional ammo without the special wad. I feel like they could’ve at least compared it to the flight control wad. Then just one or two shots would’ve at least provided some sort of control for this experiment.
I liker the conversation. The moral of the story is 12 gauge shotgun is effective at a 50 yard perimeter. Im down with that.
Great video guys. Personally, and from reading the comments below, can I say PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do this test again with regular, easy to get hold of #4 buckshot. Everyone can, and should do patterning at home, but I'm not seeing the penetration data for #4 anywhere online in anything like a scientific way. Many of us know what #4 will do re pattern, but are concerned about the power/range/penetration issue. Alternatively are there data already out there on #4 performance?
#4 buck is a good home defense load where you want stopping power but not to kill your neighbors. One gel test conducted concluded that past 15 yards the velocity dropped dramatically, and penetration was below 9 inches. Paul Harrel determined that #4 buck would penetrate your inside walls but probably not your exterior wall.
The beauty is that at distance, you can just rain lead, with a shotgun. Maybe dont want to do it in your culdesac, but if youre not worried about collateral, its probably more effective in a hurry, than a more precise weapon with higher performance.
Why are we doing distance comparison with a short barrel???
Exactly!
@@BruceCrossAnd they should’ve used Hornady critical defense, it shoots almost 500fps faster!!!
As a Certified Instructor the best IN home defense weapon is a revolver 1 no safety to worry about 2 movement in tight areas 3 even a misfire cylinder still rotates. Shotguns are great if you have lots of room or distance to target(bedroom etc 10ft avg)
Now do it with a 24"-30" full choke barrel.
The Rooster that won’t make a difference, if anything it’ll make it worse.
@@Tuton25 making it worse would be a difference. Still, what you said is the opposite of what would happen. A longer barrel and a full choke to tighten the pattern of the shot and will increase the likelihood of a hit and therefore increase the lethality. Its why some deer and turkey hunters use the very same setup that The Rooster is talking about. You apparently don't know seem to know what you're talking about.
@@Tuton25 How do you figure?
A longer barrel and tighter choke will make for longer distance with a tighter pattern.
With 00 buck in a full choke 30" barrel, Id trust shooting a human or whitetail at 75-100 yards.
The main reason why flitecontrol patterns so well is because the copper plated pellets don’t deform as they pass through the choke and this is also why a straight cylinder bore is the best for flitecontrol as well. The more deformed the pellets become, the less predictable the pattern becomes. If you have a full choked you’ll get the maximum deformation, and if you have a tighter choke shotgun dropping your pellet size will actually improve your pattern density. For a personal example, I have a Remington Model 11 with a fixed full choke, and with this particular gun I get a better pattern with Remington #4 buckshot than I do with similar 00 loads.
As far as barrel length goes, there is no difference in velocity between barrel lengths as the powder is usually completely burned within the first 14” of barrel. There are plenty of videos of guys measuring the velocity of various loads out of things like the Mossberg Shockwave, and the numbers largely don’t deviate from the advertised numbers on the box. Barrel length is all about balance and swing. A short barrel is much faster than a long barrel and the longer the barrel then farther forward the center of gravity. That’s why in trap, with very consistent and predictable target presentations, you can see barrels as long as 34” being used regularly, whereas in trap and sporting clays, with much faster and unpredictable target presentations, 26” and 28” barrels are much more common than longer ones.
One advantage that a longer barrel might have is in sight radius. The longer the sight radius the more noticeable minor deviations in sight picture become, but in this case it is largely negated by the use of red dots.
Long barrels and tight chokes are a myth, there’d be no noticeable change or a decrease in pattern performance in this particular case.
Matt Marzula 5 years in firearms retail has taught me that most people’s understanding of firearms is based on voodoo and superstition rather than actual refined understanding.
Cool! I never used Buckshot, happy to learn more. I use a Shotgun for Sporting Clay, Grouse and Deer hunting. I'm going to try some Buckshot against rotting trees. They been asking for it!
I have a 12 ga. Iver Johnson that "was" a 36" goose gun. The barrel split and I had 8" cut off making it a 28" open bore. Good quail and rabbit gun. It hates 00s. Like throwing them out a your hand, but at 45 yards it would put every pellet of a #1 buck in your hat.
If one or you guys have an open bore, I'd really be interested to see how it would stand up. Thanks
It would be inexpensive to have it bored and tapped for whatever set of choke tubes you have laying around.
Great video,...I've just purchased a Mossberg 590 and should be able to pick it up Friday
A few major things effect Buckshot's maximum effective range. Barrel length and load are the two most obvious and lastly the choke. I've seen 3 1/2 inch magnum turkey guns with tighter than Full Choke on them that coupled with the 26 barrel, they can EASILY be about as accurate as most 12 gauge 00 buck from an 18.5 cylinder bore or modified choke barrel at 25 yards only they produce similar patterns at excess of 50 yards. But lets say you're looking at a typical 00 buck load like a 9 pellet 2 3/4 shell in an 18.5 inch gun like a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870... They are still effective out to 40 yards easily.
The bead sight originally was for a 100 yard zero with buckshot, but shotguns also for a long time had much longer barrels like 26 inches, 30, or more. But a general rule of thumb most shotguns, even with slugs their effective range is about 40 to 50 yards. Not that slugs or individual pellets cant reach out farther, but slugs drop off REAL hard out to 50 yards and individual pellets arent going to do a lot of damage in a lot of cases without different chokes and stuff.
Personally... shotguns are probably the most versatile weapons out there with the right load/barrel/choke. And a 12 gauge 3 1/2 Magnum being the most versatile in terms of it's overall potential. While I dont believe in a one gun for everything kind of situation, a good 12 gauge 3 1/2 Magnum comes awful close.
A 100 yard zero with buckshot? That’s absurd, usually the standard POA is the center of the pattern at 40 yards, but that varies from manufacturer to manufacture, especially among clay guns.
@@Tuton25 Originally it was 100 yards. The idea was wherever the bead was pointed at, in 100 yards shot would pattern on the target. Modern bead sights I doubt are set to the same standard but I've taken some shots with buckshot in 26 inch barrels with full chokes and it will most certainly pattern on paper at that range. Not ideal in the slightest.... But like I said, that was the original concept, these days it's different as you pointed out.
But yes, 40 is more the norm if you ask me. Maybe 50 or 60 depending on the gun.
Christopher umm, no, that’s just wrong
@@Tuton25 No, it's not.
Christopher No, you are wrong, you can go right on Brownings website where they explain exactly how they do it. The bead is center of pattern at 40 yards. Most field guns are “dead on” with target guns being set up differently given the context.
www.browning.com/news/tech-terms/point-of-impact.html
Federal Flight Control ammo is virtually unobtainable right now. I've wanted to test some of this but haven't been able to find any for over a year.
At the patterning board, buckshot varies greatly from gun to gun , even the same barrel length and choke, pattern your own gun with different brands and go from there.
Would love to see a test on Single 0 ("0") buckshot. I heard it was a good choice for home defense since the bird and buck shot mix was a little safer (RE: wall penetration) but just as deadly at 'in house' distances. It also gave you the added advantage (in the inevitable civil law suite by the perpetrator's family) of letting you claim you were trying to use a less lethal round than "00".
A D.A. might just argue that you therefor got ammo specifically made to shoot people, instead of animals, and that was a sign you wanted to shoot instead of talk.
Well given that most commercial 00buck loads are actually .31/.32 caliber pellets instead of a true .33 most people already are using single aught...also a lot of #1 buck loads are actually #2 or #2 1/2 lol.
That is not the same human! Where is John?
I know of hunters with either Super extra full chokes like wad wizard and pattern master units and those hunters with only IC chokes and your Federal Premium flight control or Hornady's Critical Defense, both reporting 55-60 yards being the outter most edge of that envolpe after that change over to slugs.
Special gun with special hard to get ammo. Next time use a Mossberg or Remington 870 with normal 00 Buck.
They were also using low FPS shells, what we use in law enforcement or military usually somewhere around the 1300 FPS range in 2 3/4 or 3 inch reaching higher velocities.
Agreed, I have a 1971 vintage Remington Wingmaster 870 with a 28" barrel
with a modified choke. I'd be curious how that would do at 100 yards.
I know with #4 buck I have nailed crows at over 50 yards. (With buck you
have to make sure the angle of shot is very high.. Buck can carry a LONG way
and still be pretty lethal and #4 buck is NOT the same as #4 birdshot)
@@archangele1 Yes. For many years where I live in Virginia, #4 buck out of a 3" shell through a full choke barrel was very popular for deer hunting in the woods. It worked. Shell technology has changed. I'd use bigger shot and maybe a modified choke with modern 'typical' buckshot today.
I chopped a 835 down to the next rail stud over 18" ( came out to 19.1" or something) and took the acumag choke that came on the barrel and cut the end piece of and turned it into a ring sight that I welded onto the sight rail that runs the length of the barrel. At 21' it does what all shotguns do. At 42' I am all nine on a 13" Aspen round. At 63' I lose 2 pellets , I haven't tried beyond that because I think 20 yards with a hacked barrel on a gun that is strictly a sd truck truck gun is just fine. Wanna maybe get it turned down for a choke but I think the barrel is to thin , oh well.
The justifications for self defense in most states would not allow the use of deadly force at anything even approaching 30 yards. Even 10 yards would be risky to use deadly force. Most jurisdictions expect "flight" as opposed to "fight" when it comes to self defense. In your own home there is no expectation of "flight" but the deadly defense of property, beyond the four walls of a residence, is risky. Yes you can argue all the nonsense about defending one's self and what a state will or will not exactly allow. Bottom line - kill or injure someone when you had other options is not a wise move and could land you in prison for a long time
I love the Flite Control buckshot! It's one of my go-to choices for feral hogs and home invaders.
John, please do a shotgun podcast with Chris on ballistic radio! And more dedicated revolver stuff with Caleb. TH-cam videos eat up my phone's data, but the podcasts you do help me get through my daily 4 hr commute. :D
At a hundred yards an arrow "will or can" kill you too if it hits in the right place. Even a stone will do that! :-))
With the tps wad in a 3.5” hull I can shoot out to 60 yards and still get beach ball sized groups. 3 ounce 10 gauge loads with 16 pellets of 0000 buck .38 caliber can easily reach to 80 and pattern the same.
I'm a former Deputy Sheriff, I have witnessed Buck shot fail to put down large predatory dogs beyond 40 yards. Thick fur can be a big factor.
Should have carried #4 buck in 3" chamber. t's my go-to for winter coyotes. I don't hesitate within 40 yards, with the right choke and load 70yards is plausible.
I think the bigger factor is shot placement, a hit to the gut or large muscle group simply does not make it physically impossible for them to keep going.
But getting any hit at all is likely better than a miss and even if you do miss buckshot is probably the least dangerous to bystanders. As dangerous animals tend to move around so much missing is going to be more of a problem than an armed criminal who tends not to try to shoot at full sprint.
35-40yards is max to keep a tight pattern (all rounds in target) assuming 00buck. Slugs past 40 will work fine
Just bought some .223 for my s&w Sport 2 and was a good price
Where?
@@jamesmarkov9570 yesteryear.
Need to let people know that using regular shells with typical wadding will not produce the grouping you got using the flightcontrol ammo. Using the flightcontrol lets you produce a grouping better than a full choke can get, while using an open bore shotgun. If you have an open bore shotgun and need tighter grouping use the Federal FliteControl ammo.
Hornady Versatite wad loads also have similar performance
Moral of the story--NEVER TAKE A SHOTGUN TO A RIFLE FIGHT!!!!Lol.
gary smallwood one of my old work colleagues who fought in the Malayan conflict British army South Wales borderers regiment in the 1960s jungle warfare said to me that he always on point and when they occasionally came across communist fighters on jungle tracks the shotgun was the best weapon and would drop them through the trash but in the confusion all the rest of them would open fire 360 d with every weapon they had , nothing like the movies he told me so moral of the story is shotgun always did the job .
*000Buck would have been an interesting part of this equation.*
*No one seems to talk about it, but I think it's a devastating self defense option.*
00 buck works so well, theres no valueable gain going up to 000.
@@MrInzombia
*The topic of this video wasn't what type of Buckshot "works so well", it's about "the Maximum Effective Range of 12 Gage Buckshot".*
*000 Buck shot size is larger, they fly faster, and further than 00 Buck, so Maximum Effective Range would have been superior to all that was tested here, and "interesting".*
*Your opinion of "valuable gain" would be relevant to one personal philosophy of use, and not to this video's topic.*
*FWI on value; **th-cam.com/video/rhZf_x8Esms/w-d-xo.html** - Enjoy!*
Smoothbore slug video next pretty Plz.
That is further than I thought..
Load my 12 with oo and , reach for rifled weapons outside of 50 to 75 yards. Good video.
Go ,John!!!...
great deterrent when the shite hits the fan...
Federal should make a #4 buck in this loading. Not that it would be any better beyond 25 yards but for when over penetration would be of concern in home defense it is probably more useful. Even though #1 buck is closer to meeting this concern than the #00 buck is.
I can’t envision any scenario where a private citizen would fire in self defense beyond 25 yards. I think most cases where a private citizen was compelled to use a firearm in self defense, the distance was less than 25 yards.
Seems likely
These guys are putting out gun content like it's 2012
Before watching, I imagine the answer is greater than the longest shot distance in my house. 😉
Edit: Looks like I’m good lol.
Some years back I read an article about a guy and his hunting buddy who had not seen any deer all day. They were standing by their truck--knocking down a beer when his buddy exclaimed he saw a deer. While saying this the guy scooped up his shotgun and fired at the deer--over 100 yards away! He was astounded that the deer fell. Getting to the deer--they discovered a second deer his buddy did not see when he fired!! Both deer dropped at the shot even though the distance was over 100 yards!! Both deer were hit by ONE pellet each---right in their ear canal!! This has to be the luck shot of the century. His buddy bragged for years about how his gun would kill with buckshot at 100 yards--- not understanding it was pure luck.
Technically it's only a "meteorite" after it's already landed. If you were killed by a falling rock from space it would be a "meteor".
Technically ur mom gey but okay
As it was parting your hair, it would be a meteor. parting your skull, it would be meteorite. So, hit by meteor, killed by meteorite. :)
If you got hit from a meteor...it would be your sorry- ass luck.
I'd love to see what my dragon slugs would do to that ballistic gel.
25 yards for 00. Patterns are too thin past that for effectiveness. You can't choke large shot into tight patterns like you can with birdshot.
I have a number of shotguns with open choke and modified choke. You have to pattern your shotgun with the specific load. One shotgun creates a donut hole pattern and is only good to 20 yards with lead 00B pellets while another can put perhaps 6 pellets in target out to 50 yards.
For everybody touting 4 Buck: Doc Roberts, who has done extensive ammo testing, has stated that 1 Buck is the smallest diameter pellet size that consistently meets the FBI testing protocol, i.e. penetrates at least 12”.
Great video! Shotgun is my HD choice. Now that I'm older, I'm having trouble with handgun sights.
Please do a video to help shooters who wear bifocals and trifocals.
Also, what is a good shooting drill to let us know when it's time to give up on handguns for HD.
I'd love to se a video on bi and trifocals. I was at the range the other day training someone who was having trouble because of their glasses.ove done a lot of training but I didn't know how to address their issue. I've never thought about it before or seen anything covering it
“Inside 25, the shotgun is devastating.” That statement is very telling. These tests are conducted with certain scenarios involving “deer-sized game” in mind, and the ranges many people contemplate engaging such targets with a shotgun tend to be overestimated, at least in my mind. And while the 00 buck was clearly pretty effective at 50, I don’t get trying to push these tests out to 100 yards with a shotgun, at least from a realistic standpoint.
So remember kids, know what's beyond your target
This content is solid gold.
Great video.I use Remington 3- 1/2 18 pellet 00 buck for home defense.
@Lilac Tortoise Because I live in the middle of nowhere and my sheriff respond time is 30 minutes or later. Also meth heads.
I think the question was "why a shotgun over a rifle" or "why 18 pellet 00 buck when Federal flitecontrol is better" not why have a defensive tool at all. Middle of nowhere living screams AR with some federal fusion or OTM to me.
@@ericmckinley5777 I have one but, My house is a old farm house and really have one entrance way so a shotgun is more practical.
@@Jarhead1775 And that's a fair point. If you expect the engagement to be at hallway distance at the entrance and not engaging in the open area around you you're good to go. Plus no worries about neighbors due to overpenetration. Since you're a lucky gunner fan no need to explain intermediate rifle calibers penetrate less than even 00 buck. You have a neat exception to the "always AR" rule of HD.
@@ericmckinley5777 Yes huge fan of the channel. My home defense plan is have your house lit up like a Christmas tree in one part of the house where everyone comes in. Then motion sensors light up where you normally don't have have traffic. So you know where the threat is at.
I would love to see #4 buckshot tested like this!
I've heard that #4 buckshot struggles to penetrate deeply after 30 yards or so.
If you need a FliteControl wad, Hornady has a VersaTite wad loading for #4 buckshot that is commonly available.
Hevi-metal #4 is good up to 70yards with the right choke. About 6 dollars a shot tho.
@@offroadchevy4x496 #4 birdshot or #4 buckshot?
Buckshot.
Hevi-metal Dead coyote is the load. Pair with a Carlson dead coyote choke 👍
@@offroadchevy4x496 I didn't know that lead-free #4 buckshot is made. I'll have to pick some up.
Wow, John looks great! And I love the unicorn shirt next to Chris's plaid... it just feels like some yin yang kinda thing haha.
Holy shit! I've been binge watching this channel for the past few days and John has dropped a ton of weight! Good for you my dude
Lmao that goofy ass shirt had me distracted the whole time
I was trying to figure out what it was.
daAnder71 😂
In the 60s. My Father and a friend developed and patented a Buckshot load for deer in NJ.
It had 8 .36 cal 000 buck in front of 4&1/2 drams of powder. The balls were separated by lifters. It would put all 8 balls in a 5ft circle at 100 yards.
At 50 yards it was so tight we had to index the shell to get a horizontal pattern. Typically 18" x8" at 50 yards
He had to put rifle sights on our Model 12.
The meteorite comment earned my like. Brilliant metaphor.
i'd love to see this with slugs!
Slugs have a effective range of about 60 yards can be shot out to a 100 yard's, but it loses velocity, now with a threaded shotgun barrel, using Sabot rounds 100 yards effective, 150 or better range with average accuracy.
at 250 yards you could catch them with a baseball mitt. haha jk ...don't try that at home.
@@biteme19671 And yet IraqVeteran8888 did a video showing that they still have the velocity to kill past 400 yards. With just about any projectile it will be dangerous much further than it can be accurately aimed.
@@donaldengelmann6906 Do you know the difference between effective range and max range.
@@biteme19671 As I've already alluded, effective range is when you cannot accurately place your shot anymore. Max range is where it stops killing you. a 1 ounce slug falling out of an airplane will be going fast enough to kill when it hits the ground. The primary limiting factor for most firearms is accuracy.
Close your distance...lesson learned. My great Uncle Gus could put Buck shot on target from 75 yards! Which seemed like Voodoo?
All this talk about shot patterning and you're not even going to mention chokes? The kind of choke (or lack of choke) you're shooting through is a critically relevant piece of information when you're talking about how a load patterns.
Agreed, but I assume that they are addressing the very most basic situation in order to get an idea of how the loads work. The video is info about the effective range of the shotgun shell not the choke, but I do agree. The results would be very very different.
What choke they are using is kinda irrelevant being every shotgun is different. Your buddies 870 will pattern different than your 590 that's why they say always patter YOUR shotgun with your chosen load. He did however mention his had that vancomp barrel which is similar to a modified choke if I remember right.
FliteControl works best out of a cylinder bore. Chokes will actually make the pattern wider.
@@zaynehulvey8546 Yes. The main point of this video is penetration depth in gel and choke doesn't matter for that. I liked seeing that data. That kind of terminal performance at various distances data is very useful in ammunition selection. As for choke, for self-defense in most scenarios an unchoked/cylinder bore is an easy decision. Indoors or at similar close ranges where shotguns are usually employed we're looking at very little spread from most chokes. Some spread is ideal, we don't want all the shot to hit in one place as a clump. Rifled bores spread even more, but the pattern clusters at the edge of the pattern which is bad. I just meant to point out that they spent quite a bit of time digressing from the main subject and talking about how loads patterned at distance without mentioning the key variable, which is the choke. How a shotgun is (or isn't) choked determines the pattern at distance more than anything else. I'm guessing they weren't using a tight choke since they probably would have mentioned it and the context seemed to be mostly about self-defense even though hunting was mentioned.
@@LuckyGunner So I take it you were shooting it out of a cylinder bore, then?
The distance of large gauges shot gun buckshot is great for 12 ga., better at 10ga. And wonderful in my 1886 8 ga. Greener double barrel shotgun. It opens doors, shot Bill Doolin, and backed down a 30 person riot in my town. Don't mess with the old Greener. From the deep south in the far north. Nice podcast, thanks.
I think my boy demo ranch cover this
lito dan these videos are much better quality
25 yards and in, 00 Buck absolutely. After that I'm switching to slugs.
Bird shot in the house - Buck shot in the yard - Slugs across the street.
Right, maybe buy enough time to grab or get to the gun.
Inside the house that birdshot will ruin someone's day...although our 2nd option in that regard would be #6 gameload, just a little bit heavier...and both are easier for the lawyer defending you in the communist states...
If you need more distance range and penetration consider getting a Remington Model 870 Pump Action Shotgun chambered for the 3 and a half inch magnum load. you can still shoot the 3 inch magnum load and also the conventional original 2 and 3 Quarter inch shell. Very versatile very powerful and very reliable with endurance qualities to last a life time and a wide range of interchangeable barrels like those that are rifled for rifled slug rounds.
Everything you just said with the exception of interchangable barres is true of Benelli. It is also very reliable. I bought a tactical version for only 500.00 NEW! This shotgun is so easy to shoot and has never presented me with any malfuctions at all. I also love the Remington.
how about using fullchoke? would be interesting to see testing with different type of choke
This renews my desire to SBS my Mossberg Shockwave. I have the SB Tactical "brace" on it but the Magpul stock is the most comfortable shotgun stock I have ever used. It would be so nice on the Mossy.