ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
- This is a response video for all of the comments I've gotten regarding verse equalization. Verse Equalization is a fan made condition often used in Versus Battles or Cross verse debates. It is a condition placed on a fight where the different power systems the characters may use are equalized to be the same energy. This way the entirety of a character's arsenal is available in a fight. I don't like using this condition in my VS Battle videos and since I've received many comments regarding this topic I wanted to voice my position.
Versus Battles are JUST for FUN. These are all thought experiments. - บันเทิง
Obviously the only correct answer is that I should use verse equalization when it nerfs the character I want to lose but not when it nerfs the character I want to win
Bro's got his priorites straight
Least biased power scaler be like
It’s all part of the agenda can’t let our chosen fighter lose
Literaly this.
Agreed 100%
I knew verse equalization did not make sense when someone said naruto would ve able to use domain amplification to get past gojos infinity lmaoo
Yeah it's a headache
Naruto post six paths chakra was able to see and beat up madara's limbo clones. Limbo Hengoku lets madara project copies of himself into an alternate dimension thats out of synch with physicals reality. Being able to attack something like that is more impressive than being able to attack some who warps space around themselves to defend from attacks.
@ayubsharif7419 which if you put him up against Gojo, an interesting question arises in that, "do the rules of Space apply to the Limbo clones despite being in an alternate dimension?" Physics would suggest "no" since even in being in an alternate dimension Physics would still apply and Gojo's CE creating Physics and mathematical based feats would make his toolkit nullify almost everything besides Infinite Tsukuyomi
Naruto only way to bypass infinity is to use the black orbs he had in Shippuden since they can effect dimensions but again which version of Naruto we're going to use
Ok I am all for VE but who the fuck says that!
Gonna be real Daffy Duck absolutely kicks Madara's ass
Most likely 😂
I honestly don't remember Daffy Duck, I am guessing it's toon force related why Madara loses?
@@msaag5490 I have no clue honestly 🤣
@@msaag5490 Looney Tunes characters can move stars and survive planets exploding point blank
This, but unironically
Verse Equalization is one of those things that proves how broken the power scaling system has become since it is full on operating under it's own rules and not the actual rules set by the respective stories.
Eh. There's different levels to verse equalization. In JoJo only other people with stands can see stands. One thing we haven't seen is if someone who can use hamon without a stand can see stands. Till that's shown it's fair to assume someone with "magic" can see stands. When it comes to things like genjutsu from Naruto Chakra is how you defend against but it can be argued any form of magic power that can move through the body can be used to defend against genjustu
I think when looking at verse equalization it's important to look at if another power system is used in a similar enough way to where the only real difference is what it's being called
@@tomraineofmagigor3499in Naruto I’m pretty sure it was explained that genjutsu only affects people with a chakra network.
@@demoneyez97 you're missing the point of what I'm saying. Genjutsu controls the flow of the Chakra in the body. That's why you can argue it would work on a power system where the energy flows in the body. It's not being bias simply cause I want genjutsu to work. It has a logical follow through. If you can't even have that little logical follow through then don't do cross battles
@@tomraineofmagigor3499 That is bias. Chakra control is not spiritual pressure control. Or Hammon control. Or using a stand. You cannot argue Genjutsu works on Gojo because he has Cursed Energy that's stupid.
Let's take Magical Index. Does Genjutsu work on Mages because they have mana flowing through them? If that's the case, do Espers, who use some weird ass brain wave energy, have immunity on Genjutsu? Or are we treating Mana and Psychic energy, which in universe are completely separate and distinct, as the same for the sake of helping naruto fanboys arguments?
Verse equalization is dumb as fuck.
@@lususnaturae881 the standard I gave was energy flowing through you. Although that can be taken further. For example in bleach unless you use a special method your body is made out of spirit energy but even then has spirit energy inside them. Many abilities take advantage of this and thus those abilities would affect people with Chakra just the same. Looking at index they have mana flowing through them so yes but espers don't so no. It's really not that complicated. It's not a bias. I could go through many abilities and show how there can be a standard if you get specific as to the process. I simply used genjutsu as an example cause that was done so in the video
I hate verse equalization. For example, when it's done with haki and chakra, usually biased debaters would use it to not only give someone resistance to Conqueror's Haki, but also try to say that since they'd most definitely have haki and all 3 types it'd be GGs. It's a crude example, but it happens. It's an excuse to take some advantages away while gaining some for your side of the conversation.
I think the dumbest part about verse equalizing to give people resistance to conquers hak is that you can resists conquers haki with willpower in story. I mean even bepo resisted raylieghs conquers haki
Yeah that's such a massive bias against the One Piece verse. Also, we get into what El_Eon was describing about headcanon. If Haki = Chakra, can the Admirals use their haki to cast jutsus? Could Marco rip off Obito's MS Sharingan, remove one of his eyes, insert Obito's eye, heal himself with his devil fruit, and all of a sudden gain the phase ability Obito had? There's just so much issues that end up occurring if you thoughtlessly verse equalize.
Tbf Rayleigh didn’t target Bepo, fishman island luffy could target his conq so Rayleigh prob can too
@@deformedwater4749 Rayleigh did complement everyone in the room stating how everyone is pretty good or something along those lines, so he most likely aimed at everyone.
I mean if Luffy or any Other protagonist be in DB universe, they would be the "new" or present "goal to reach". Is ridiculous. To equalize universes.
Verse Equalization only makes sense (for me) if you want to write a crossover fanfiction.
So, like, any vs battle? 😂
It doesn't for me
@ShesBearynice no? There is a difference between debating what would happen if 2 people fought and actually putting those 2 together
Verse equalization needs to be kept on a short leash. Magic goes with magic. Spirit goes with spirit. Science goes with science. Things like Chakra, which are reliant on extra parts, don’t go with anything. Devil fruits don’t go with anything either (their origins are still shrouded in mystery), but their elemental matchups (like magma > fire, rubber > lightning, etc.) still need to be taken into consideration.
W.
Magic goes with magic. Spirit goes with spirit. Chakra is spirit though, let’s not be stupid. It’s literally just their Ki variant, right down to other stories calling their shit Chakra AND Ki and shit interchangeably.
The leash that needs to be tightened is on the frameworks of people who pretend that things with obvious mechanical natures don’t belong. Chakra not only involves “spiritual energy”, meaning mental endurance, but it’s literally called Stamina when it’s put together with physical energy (physical endurance). It’s just spirit shit.
And doesn’t Vegapunk imply Devil Fruits are science? They literally mutate you biologically, so it’s just a quirk. I wouldn’t say things like Quirk Negation would apply to it, or something, but it could. That’s a possibility we should consider and operate alongside, not as a definitive interaction, but as something that CAN apply.
Ppl suck at using basic reasoning.
@@ShesBearynice vegapunk never said devol fruit is science and again ki or chakra is not haki ..all spiritual powers are not the same it's like comparing cursed energy to reiatsu they are both spiritual
@Ursa Banks Chakra’s a bunch of weird tubes. Other verses don’t have those tubes. It can’t be equalized.
@@ShesBearyniceChackra is a mixture of the users physical and spiritual energy that also requires a Chackra Network to function
@@emmanueladekunle3088 What they meant is probably not that fruits "are science", but rather that the fruits somehow work KIND OF similar to quirks. Vegapunk was able to reproduce zoan devil fruits and paramecia devil fruits by taking a devil fruit user's "lineage factor", that is, their DNA. We know that in one piece devil fruits at the very least "do" change your DNA (and also do some other thing that we don't exactly know, especially logias are weird as fu-), it's how they affect your body, even though he doesn't entirely understand how they work down to the letter (especially logias), we know that they work at the level of your lineage, similar to how quirks work (quirks are also DNA and lineage related). Personally I think Aizawa could negate devil fruits power, with less effect depending on the user's mastery over their fruit and their haki, since we know that in one piece haki can negate devil fruits (meaning they can be negated) but ONLY AS FAR as the devil fruit user's own haki goes, we saw Aokiji able to use his ice logia powers to not get skewered by Whitebeard's haki-coated stab. I'd call quirk-nullification "a weaker sea prism stone that depends on the difference between the nullifier's and the devil fruit user's power".
Haven't watched the vid yet so I can make a guess and see how right or wrong I am. First, verse equalizing is done carelessly and used to give unfair advantages to characters or series. Second, the mechanics of a particular power system should not grant characters abilities they do not have, or interactions that should not be possible. Third, it is used to dismiss the discussion on how competing power systems would theoretically interact and is used as a shortcut to get to the meat of the discussion, the actual fight characters and fight itself.
YES, so glad someone gets it
@@El_Eon_ Ey, glad to see I got the basic gist of your arguments. Also, I've been checking on your channel for the last few days. Had a feeling you were about to drop a fire video.
@@msaag5490 thank you, but to be fair I started working on this video Monday. I've had something cooking in the back burner in terms of ideas
@@El_Eon_ Ohhh, curious to see what the next video will be about.
On the topic of the video, you pretty much explained exactly why verse equalization is reckless at best, and incredibly disingenuous at worst. The problem of headcanon is something verse equalizers tend to dismiss heavily, especially the nonsuperficial implications of "equalizing" energies. Is the Black Flash of JJK Advanced Armament Haki or Advanced Conquerors? Who decides which is what, and why should it be that way if we end up in a Haki = Cursed Energy situation.
Tho it wouldve been sick if madara tried a genjutsu on kaido but the dragon's will inside him broke him out of it, since we know zoan fruits have a will of their own, would be like the tailed beasts breaking jinchurikis out of genjutsus
Suddenly, every frustrated vs battle argument I’ve ever had has come into memory. You’ve completely changed my mind lol
Now, there is something I think we can all agree on one thing: stats equalization is the most stupid thing ever, what's even the point of "power scaling" if we remove the "power"? Isn't that then just a battle of hax?
Stat equalization helps when trying to discuss how abilities would interact with each other despite the fact that one character is wall level and the other is a planet buster.
@@notfunnydidntlaugh5270 I feel that'd be fairly simple though without it. Most verse equalization seems like it's just to stop stalemates and situations where one side loses because they just can't fight the other.
Isn't equally stats just an extra
Agree.
One of the first and best explanations of this topic. Great work
I love this video, your points are incredible. I just feel like the example you chose at 11:13 was a little poor since we saw in Naruto and Boruto that the Rinnegan cannot absorb REAL sources of fire and lightning etc. That's why Sasuke's Kirin ability is so useful since it creates a real lightning bolt instead of chakra being molded into lightning. The logia users of one piece are all literally the element after all so if Ace were to blast Nagato with a flame fist, he would not be able to absorb it since it is not artificial fire.
Love the video though
You make a great point, forgot that Ace's fire was real fire😅
Funally a person who understands that if a person has zero chakra they can't be put in a genjutustu because it manipulates the chakra in their body it's why madara couldn't do it to guy because his chakra was too violent
Maybe I’m misremembering the fight but where was it stated that guy couldn’t be put under genjutsu? We’ve seen multiple jinchuriki and the bijuu themselves be put under genjutsu and they have some of the most violent chakra in the series. I think guy was just blitzing him.
Its more of madara wanted a fight that could have been his last so he was just having fun.
And in naruto genjutsu resistance hasn't been explained enough
Guy look at sharingan user feet to not be effected by their genjutsu.
Genjutsu is just poorly written.
This is false because all Genjutsu aren’t the same.
Sharingan Genjutsu Injects chakra into a person through the eye.
And Infinite Tsukuyomi worked on Himans before they had chakra.
wish i could go back a day to rewatch his videos because they are
amazing.
I 100% agree with the whole video but specifically the “if you equalize it automatically nerfs one side and raises another.” I remember a TH-cam video I watched awhile ago where it was the seven warlords vs the akatsuki and almost every battle ended up being “in a normal fight it’s the warlords and in a equalized fight it’s the akatsuki.” That was just an example that I remembered as I watched the video.
tbh i think both ways to powerscale are ok and can coexist. Both systems of powerscaling have their pros and cons but they also provide much more insight for both sides rather than just having no verse equalization or having every verse being equalized. You can make many matchups with it and without it you can have clearer view and also have more concrete way for fight to play out. In the end i think both should be used in moderate amounts and both sides should give way in some cases.
I completely agree, I just don't want people to keep telling me I HAVE to do verse equalization 😂
@@El_Eon_ shit I mean it’s really all up to who’s coming up with the vs battle. If it’s your scenario ppl can’t tell u that you have to verse equalize, it’s ur scenario 😭
@@El_Eon_ there is something asked by some of the people here but what about any cursed spirit or similar enemies vs anyone outside the verse? How would you do them?
@@rossjones8656 I had this discussion with someone a while back.
Any versus battle is strictly hypothetical. There is absolutely no reason you can't just simply throw in a stipulation if it makes the fight easier or more Interesting to talk about.
When it comes to characters like shinigami or cursed spirits that more than likely can't be seen by their opponent, just have a stipulation that says they can see them.
Most of the time just being able to see the opponent is enough and it's not exactly a hindrance to the other character.
This is a great video, man. Even though I partake in verse equalization myself, I have to admit it does gets frustrating whenever someone tries to equate certain power systems that have wildly different mechanics just because of superficial similarities.
Honestly always enjoy your content, keep up the good work! Great explanation about the issue that many people don’t seem to understand about verse equalization
Have not seen your channel before, but you perfectly described the position I've had for a long time, so instant sub.
Whenever I talk about cross battles, i always talk about the fight with and without verse equalization.
About the Haki vs. Limitless CE=DF verse equalization, I'd say that Haki wouldn't automatically negate Limitless because Limitless would be equivalent to a Paramecia type. It has been shown that using very high amounts of Haki can nullify even Paramecia effects, but this would be similar to Simple Domain pushing against Limitless in the Shibuya incident.
That's not a bad interpretation of how the interaction could go
Thank you mann!!!! Speaking nothing but facts. I was debating a guy that said "if your character cant win through verse equalization, then they are garbage" 😵💫 Then he proceeds to say "with verse equalization, smoker would be a wind style user and be affected by fire style since its the counter to wind" Despite smoker literally fighting Ace, The embodiment of fire.
Smoker and ace do cancel each other out
ask verse equalization fanatics if sea stone can nullify chakra like it can DF in OnePiece / Or if Shinobi can/cant use chakra when submerged in a body of water
or if haki can "solidify" Obito using Kamui..
@williebo510 I know but he was saying that smoker would be affected/damaged by a fire style jutsu despite him literally being immune to it.
My problem with equilazation is they often assign weaknesses to abilities from a universe that lack them because the opposing universe has them.
The biggest one for me is saying you can break out of Aizen's Kyoko Suigetsu because you can break out of genjutsu. When Aizen's Kyoko Suigetsu doesn't possess the same baseline mechanics that allows people to break out of genjutsu.
You come into a verses battle with your own weaknesses, you don't hoist new weaknesses onto your opponent.
Basically
In the example of haki, people forget how rare haki is in one piece, not even some members of the strawhat have haki, so it doesn't make sense put something so common like chakra as haki, it would be more like eye abilities
That’s just because of differences in culture…..ninja villages in Naruto are *explicitly* meant to raise combatants. It’s why post-war, in Boruto, manipulation of chakra is becoming more specialized
One Piece on the otherhand, is full of mostly civilians who will never have to fight. Everyone *can* use haki, most people just aren’t fighting enough to awaken or train it
@@Kurotama11 Yeah, but there are entire factions in One Piece who fight all the time. Pirates, Marines, Cipher Pol, Revolutionaries, etc. Even in THOSE factions Haki is rare and the ratio of combatants to civilians seems just as high if not higher than Naruto.
@@ivantheenigma577 Haki being rare in those factions hasn’t really been the case since like, pre-time skip. *Everything has haki, you just have to be trained to channel and manipulate it*
It gets retroactively explained at some point that it’s just really rare in the East Blue (along with DFs which makes it the weakest sea) with most of the top tier Haki users just getting concentrated in the New World….because that’s the path to the One Piece.
But generally, anyone not at the bare bottom of the totem has access to base armament haki….they even retconned Lucci to always have it in a vivre card
I think what generally confuses people is, we don’t always see people bust out black coating….but armament haki *doesn’t have to be black* . There are multiple instances of people just having invisible armament haki. Also people get confused that not using haki for combat ≠ *you don’t have any*
You may also be specifically confused with *conquerors haki* which is like a 1/10000 chance of having
@@Kurotama11 You make a good point. I also remember the statement about Lucci and it was even confirmed that Black Maria and Sasaki had Haki. My only pushback is that I would say that Lucci as a baseline for people that have useable Haki is pretty high. I think Marineford and the showings for the Admirals, and even Return to Sabaody, kinda skewed our perspective on how strong the pre-timeskip guys are.
For example, you have X Drake who was a former Rear Admiral which is only one rank below Vice Admiral. He has the 4th highest bounty among the Supernovas and we even assumed that Law, who is worth less than him, was stronger than him let alone Luffy. Here we have Lucci who could match Luffy blow for blow so Lucci himself is on the high end of Rear Admiral if not above it. We even a Buster Call Vice Admiral giving respect to how strong Lucci is and considering it impossible for a pirate, definitely referring to those in Paradise, to defeat him. And then we have "Captain" Koby who was proficient in Haki, but he was soon after promoted to Rear Admiral and he along with Helmeppo and others are considered by Garp to be the "Future of the Marines" so they don't follow the "normal" scale for Marines.
Even if it was common for regular captains to have use of at least 1 haki type, then that's still a ridiculously small number of the over all population of the Marines especially considering Captain is the rank directly under Rear Admiral with a dozen ranks below it.
@@ivantheenigma577 I wasn’t so much trying to use Lucci as a baseline…more-so just using him as an example to show that even if we go by post time skip portrayal *alot more people have haki than we think* (crocodile also comes to mind for this) He’s most *definitely* far from average at that point tho….
To your second paragraph, I don’t really get what it is you’re trying to say??
To the third, why are you assuming that the minimum rank for having haki is so high?? Maybe that’s what your second paragraph was explaining, but I couldn’t quite follow your train of thought there.
My friends were hella upset watching the kaido madara vid😂
They should be😂 One Piece down play is crazy
@@El_Eon_so every single thing you said past 7:39 makes so much sense and I can agree with a lot of it. I have one question though on my friend's behalf cuz I'm curious about what you think. He believes that chakra is above verse equalization because chakra is like chi is like Aura. It's just an inherent feature of the human existence. That's why if you look up definitions of Kai from dragon Ball or haki from One piece they have very similar descriptions of what they are. Do you not believe that chakra, chi, or Aura are essentially the same thing and therefore above verse equalization?
@@ExiledSummoner no I don't, because those are very broad terms and chakra (at least if we're talking about it within the context of Naruto) has its own specific set of rules and mechanics behind me.
@@ExiledSummoner I think you should ask your friend if Smaug from LOTR, Acnologia from Fairy Tail, and Alduin from Skyrim are comparable to each other in every respect. They all come from the concept of a dragon, however they have completely different power sets, capabilities, and weaknesses. They can do similar things, but would you say they are in any other ways equal to each other in strength, speed, destructive capacity, etc? Just because Chakra, Haki, Nen, or any other anime or Asian influenced power system stems from the same or similar concepts, philosophies, or teachings, doesn't mean they will function the EXACT same between each series.
@@msaag5490good analogy
Finally, someone gets me! Bro woke up and chose to speak nothing but facts.
MANNN I found this on my Home page (Great Video btw) but PLEASE UPLOAD MORE. Disappointed when I was trying to Bing these videos and there's only a few in the catalog
It's still absurd to say Goku can't beat Luffy in a 1v1 cause he doesn't have Haki 💀
I'll admit that VE is used extremely carelessly, but overall it should still hold some basis in these debates.
Example: Asta should still be able to cancel out attacks that 100% fall under mana/magic, but he's not about to cancel out Chakra based attacks
Edit: Some of yall Dyslexia as fk
Dumbasses believe rubber is indestructible now. He'd explode on contact or stretch far enough to rip
Pretty sure Goku can use Kienzan. So he has a cutting based attack he just never uses. Goku can also destroy luffys planet and teleport to the moon(he would be able to sense Enel)
Luffy doesn’t have Universal attack power so even without Goku hurting him, he won’t hurt or even slow Goku down.
I’m supporting your argument with a couple points.
@@rowdyrobgaming8726 I was speaking more so if Goku were to punch Luffy directly its insane to say he won't do any damage all because he doesn't have Haki
@@Karmanara You literally said "Goku can't beat Luffy in a 1v1". Why are you shifting the goalpost now?
@@Kraator57 Reread my comments, dingus
I agree over all. Like could you imagine equalizing something like Chakra to Devil Fruits? That makes blackbeard would literally kill any ninja by touching them (because his ability turns off devil fruits, which = chakra, and if you run out of chakra you die). It is just completely unfair to one side or another.
or like seastone / being submerged in water nullifying chakra, or like a base armament haki user solidifying Obito when he uses Kamui lol
Well no. Unless he turns of Haki then he shouldn't be able to turn of chakra. He would be able to turn of gentic abilities thought so no sharingan or rinnegan.
@@matijasostojic4288 why not. if we're verse equalizing then we can just say Devil fruit powers = chakra. thats the whole point of the video. verse equalizing is just stupid way to make complex power systems simple to fit into a single mold. so that the ones doing the versus battles can get undue advatages for their favourite verses.
@@matijasostojic4288
he said if chakra = *devil fruit*
Chakra came from the fruit of the chakra tree and is passed down through genetics just like Devil Fruit powers
So Blackbeard absorbing/turning off Devil Fruits would mean he would turn off/absorb chakra in an equalized battle, which would kill any ninja
peak TH-cam, smartest power scaler
A rare soght indeed
This guy reallly be changing the way i think bout these battles for the good
Thank you someone actually taking about this that's why I hate vs battle debates because people keep making the rules for two different characters from different series became equal even though the power system is different
Thank GOODNESS u made a video on this!! I feel like the TH-cam community just accepts it. Like…. Is it concrete? Unless the gap is that huge
Honestly I have always hated VE (verse equalization), as well as BL (blood lusted) fights. The reason it because in both example you take away from what its meant to be. In VE it's stupid because chakra, and reiatsu are meant to be spiritual in nature, atleast to a certain degree, so I'm fine with that. However when u try to equalize haki with the other 2 u then have stupid arguments, because they share almost nothing in common. Similarly in BL its stupid because people use it as a crutch to let their favorite characters win. Example I always see is goku. People always say goku is BL and instantly speed blitzes the fight when goku never does that in a fight. If u want to say frieza blitzes and instantly wins that is perfectly fine, because it's in character.
My argument for equalizing haki with reiatsu and haki is that their both energy, more speciifcally a kind of life energy. In fact if you go to the roots of what these energies originate from, the aincent Chinese concept of Qi is basically what your getting. WIth that context in mind, equalizing all of them make sense as their all effectively at their roots, the same kind of energy. If you want to take it further, its all literally just "energy", the type of energy doesn't matter all that much. Diffrent form or shape, but if you strip things down to the very fundementals (atoms, subatomic particles, ect) its matter, and energy.
Energy can interact with energy, matter can somewhat influence energy, but energy can affect other forms of energy. In a multiversal setting, wither its magical or not are just additional properties given to it, but its still just energy with stuff added on top. In my mind at least, differing diffrent kinds of energy feels silly as outside of like, energy wavelengths, they all operate at the same level if you want to be technical about it.
Bro it just makes for a wider range of interesting debates, that’s all. It’s fine if it’s not your cup of tea, but a lot of people in the comments are looking to deep into it 😭
@@rolanddeschain6783all of that yap just to be wrong, haki doesn’t have haki networks neither does reitsu, chakra does, reitsu can create reishi objects, haki and chakra cannot, haki can allow people to see into the future and has 3 variants, chakra and reitsu do not. Hence they are not the same
@@rolanddeschain6783you can't just boil it down to "energy". Let's look at Naruto. Once nature energy is added in it becomes a qualitative difference. They very much aren't the same energy
I don't have an issue with verse equalization but making a character "blood lusted" throws out the character. It's easy to fabricate reasons for the fight and not every one on one would be to the death
That was a very well thought out video. In my experience, I will only equalize certain parts of the verse, because it won't be fun to talk about if one character literally can't interact with another or something.
That was a really good video, it kinda made me think for a bit and eventually changed my opinion thank you.
This is why i love your powerscaling, you actually make the fights accurate
With Verse equalization, Aizawa from MHA would be massively buffed
Actually no. Quirks are fully biological and tied to the specific genes of MHA verse and are unique to the characters themselves.
Only if the power is biologically tied to the person's body can it be nullified.
Example: Chakra-No Sharingan/Doujutsu-Yes.
@@matijasostojic4288 Chakra is biologically tied though. Naruto humans have an entire body system dealing with Chakra and, unlike with Heteromorphic quirks, have to actively use it for their abilities.
@@ivantheenigma577 What I mean by biologicaly is a more tied down version (Doujutsu).
No matter how much of a prodigy, a baby in Naruto isn't gonna be using Chakra in any way shape or form.
But a baby in MHA could since quirks are VERY strongly tied to their body, thought this can vary from person to person.
Unlike in MHA, chakra doesn't come from some gene that Aizawa could just turn off like with Quirks.
Aizawa can only activate those specific genes And not anything else in the human body.
So normal chakra is a no but Doujutsu and such can be since they are family specific And you can't learn them as a normal person.
@@matijasostojic4288all have chakra in naruto same as mha and chakra from genes come what are you smoke?
To break it to you even Aizawa still has many weaknesses that it includes fighting someone physically stronger.
He is not Asta whose Anti-Magic's origin is Sword Magic which cuts tru any magic even without help of Anti-Magic before and since it evolved into that Asta can fight continental characters with country level of power it's because the very nature of Anti-Magic is to negate any kinds of magic effectively nerfing them and cuts them afterwards.
Aizawa will only have anti- magic not sword magic in short.
This was needed and greatly appreciated.
I think there's a lot to talk about this topic, I personally preffer when there IS verse equalization, and even there could be "spectrums" of it. One of the biggest problems is that Verse equalization is not treated the same as Speed equalization.
Speed equalization is best defined as "The character's speed is not the determining factor of who the victor is", this means that we are ignoring speed in the discussion, not that characters have equal speed, because that involves things such as the slower character suddenly gaining several speed based abilities they wouldn't have before.
Verse equalization is treated the wrong way, in which "energies are equal in capability", when it should be closer to "characters being from different series shouldn't impact their performance", obviously there's nuance and discussion to be had there, but its along the lines of it being quite sad that a character like Itachi , who is famously an illusionist, has to constantly rely on imperfect susanoo and amaterasu, two of his most flawed powers, in VS discussion, when it would be significantly more fun to let him use his full tools, tsukiyomi, yata mirror included.
On a similar note, I think there should be more talks about constructing better verse equalization, if at all to have a good alternative to no equalization, and having both discussions can be added to the fun.
a problem that arises a lot with One Piece is that Haki is not exacly an internal energy system the same way Mana, cursed energy or chakra are, while it can be "depleted" and you can use "a great deal of it" to fend off certain abilities, it's a stretch to say that it's used to "power" things, while it's more appropiate to say that it "conditionalizes" attacks, like, yes, it makes them stronger, but it's pretty clear in text that it's more of a factor of "is your willpower stronger, which makes your haki more effective" rather than "if I put all of my haki units into this attack, i can bypass the enemy's current haki unit's in defense, but then i'll have 0 units". this turns into more of a personal definition but for any interested, I consider Haki to be more of a unique powerset, where Haki users have a form of intangibility or durability negation, but its specified towards hitting targets that have had their forms altered, so for example, Juvia from Fairy Tail is essentially a water logia, she uses magic to transform into water, but her original self is human, so Haki works on hiting her as normal. instead, a character who was born made out of water already (like certain Stands such as geb or Aqua Necklace) would be immune to haki in a similar way Prometeus the Homie is, since he was born AS fire.
I completely understand where you were coming from and truth be told you seem to have a good idea of what verse equalization could be, but the problem where the fan-made definition like this is that it ultimately will always come down to whether or not people agree with said definition. It's not like there's a definition that you can just pull out of the dictionary. Which is ultimately one of my biggest problems with it.
That's why I really don't care for the charm as a whole or battles that involve it because it then becomes A subjective clash where one person may think that certain abilities will interact one way and another person will leave me that they'll interact another way. Too many questions are brought up that over complicate a debate or conversation and It ultimately just leads to non-answers.
I do like where your head is at and ultimately if you want to use it go ahead. I personally won't be using it unless I make another video like my big mom versus the hidden Leaf where I would be following a narrative from one story while integrating a character from another.
@@El_Eon_ I agree! I don't think its necesary to use at all, I'm speaking more towards my own preferences, I did quite like your Big Mom Konoha video!
it kinda comes down to wheter someone thinks that discussing about the interactions of different verse's powers is engaging or a waste of time. Some people may want to come to some sort of final conclusion such as "X character would win", while some others want more to talk about the speculation that takes them there, and I think that's when some form of verse equalization could be brought up. I've seen a couple specific discussions that bring things like equalizing specific abilities rather than the whole verse's system, so you'd have "Itachi vs One Piece character, Genjutsu ON, Yata Mirror vs non-physical Attacks ON, Haki Debuff removal ON" as the pre-face, and converse from there.
@@Nedoiko That's the thing. People often think it's very black and white with this sort of discussion. If you want to have a versus battle where genjutsu does work but there isn't any other kind of equalization going on that's completely fine. If anything, I think it would make the battle a bit more interesting depending on what characters are being used. But ultimately I feel like the biggest problem people have is that they believe their characters are just losing entire parts out of their toolkit, like with my Madara versus kaido video. Madara lost like 8% of his toolkit and people are complaining that The fight is automatically invalid because of it. Even though that 8% wasn't the portion of his toolkit that he used consistently.
I have mixed feelings. I agree that verse equalization can be applied in ways that give characters incredibly unfair advantages that negate their opponents abilities. Similarly, though, i feel that not equalizing runs into a different but similarly frustrating problem: character's arent able to fight at all like we expect them to, so the versus battle feels like an unsatisfying "what if" where none of the characters get to fight in-character.
For example, if I was curious about the results of a Vs. Battle between jjks Jogo and bnhas Todoroki, I'd personally find it really underwhelming as a Todoroki fan if the answer was "Todoroki instantly loses because he cant see or perceive curses in any way, so Jogo sneaks up on him and ends him without any contest", even if this is true to the established context of both settings. Similarly, it would be very underwhelming as a Jogo fan to be told "domain expansion wouldnt work on Todoroki, as he has no cursed energy and the barrier wouldnt recognize him as a target." This is also true based on the context of the settings, there is no cursed energy in bnha, but it feels like the most boring outcome, since in both cases the characters arent able to fight as we usually see them doing, because of the differences between their settings.
Fights with Jojo characters in-world and as we the audience experience them are of characters with mythical avatars using them and their abilities to fight each other, balancing their respective Stands stats, ranges, sizes, abilities, etc in order to win the fight. But if characters from other settings were to fight Jojo characters, they would be met with enemies wielding invisible, impossible to see or telegraph abilities, with avatars that are completely indestructible regardless of what you hit them with. The strongest Kamehameha from dbz should be effortlessly tanked by Hierophant Green (a syand thats characterized in part by its low durability), since "stands can only be hit by stand users."
Vs. Battles are supposed to be a fun thought experiment, and i feel like not verse equalizing certain things actively makes the fights less fun, as we can end up in situations where neither character is able to act in ways that are recognizable to the fans who put them in the situation. When watching Megumi fight in JJK, im not usually thinking "oh man I love Nue, with its abilities of flight, lightning, and invisibility that although not applicable to any of the characters he fights in the setting, is a core part of its moveset as it is a shikigami and you need to meet a certain threshold of cursed energy in order to see it," even if thats technically true. I'm not saying there's a way you should do it. it's just a consideration.
I wouldn't label "letting characters see each other when they otherwise wouldn't" as verse equalization, it's just a caveat for the sake of the experiment. I'd only label it so if it was for attacks and abilities that people "In verse" aren't supposed to see. For example, Soul Reapers/Hollows are not intentionally cloaking themselves from the sight of others but someone like Shiryu of the Rain is. The former is a characteristic that can't be controlled while the latter is an actual power used at will that characters in verse have to use their own abilities to circumvent.
Sometimes characters just have bad/unwinnable matchups and this isn't even limited to cross verse. Gojo and Obito are the prime examples where they just deny entire move sets from their own verses because their ability is just that strong. Stands might be invincible to any non-stand based attack, but the users aren't and multiple characters were defeated due to this very distinction. Most stand users are actually just regular human level and, unless they have a mega broken ability like GER, they actually fold pretty easily to most notable anime combatants.
I'm on the other side of you, where I like not seeing the characters fight like normal. I want to imagine how they'd deal with an opponent where their normal fighting style doesn't work or they have to come up with counters midfight.
Finally someone who understands the problem no VE presents and the difference between bad and good VE
I do not have the same idea of a "satisfying answer" as you. I do VS battles with the explicit intent to find, with as CLOSE to an objective answer as possible, an answer to "who would win?". An answer that is anticlimactic is not unsatisfying for me, because if that is how it would actually go, that is what I want to hear. Yes, Todo DOES lose instantly against Jogo since he cannot perceive or harm Jogo. That's just the way it works, and it's fair to say it how it is. That is a satisfying answer.
Simply DON'T make matches where one character is obviously disadvantaged. Why specifically Jogo and Todoroki??? They do not have anything in common other than, like, heat I guess? Even then Todo uses fire and Jogo uses magma so it isn't the same. Just don't put them against each other, it's not fair.
Put someone with extra-sensory abilities against Curses. Someone who does not necessarily need to see them in order to fight them, someone who can harm them even without Cursed Energy via Hax abilities. Someone like Touma with Imagine Breaker. That's infinitely more interesting to me than just *making* cursed spirits visible and able to be harmed by anyone and anything. A cursed spirit should not be susceptible to getting nuked.
As for JoJo, that's even MORE interesting, because no, NOT just Stands can harm other Stands. Stands are also susceptible to interaction with Spirits due to being on the same "wavelength", as well as being susceptible to Hax such as Time and Space manipulation. Ichigo Kurosaki WOULD be able to see and touch Star Platinum. And that makes their specific matchup more interesting, because although they have very different powersets, they CAN interact in a meaningful way based on all established rules of both verses.
Megumi vs Pre-Timeskip Sasuke is EXPLICITLY more interesting for me BECAUSE Sasuke cannot see the Ten Shadows and instead would have to use the Sharingan to, say, read the flow of the wind *around* the Shikigami in order to dodge. It creates a dilemma for Sasuke to overcome instead of just saying "here ya go lil bro, you can have this one free" and allowing him to just Chidori those mfs even though he logically would not be able to do that.
Hell, I ESPECIALLY love using characters like Yuji Itadori in VS debates due to their extensive Soul Hax. Could Yuji see Stands? I believe he could, since he explicitly is stated to be able to see the contours of the soul, AND because he can harm the soul with his Cursed Energy. Similar question for One Piece, could Yuji harm Logia users? Probably, but not in the same way as Haki users, he'd just be punching the element and still interacting with it AS the element it is but causing damage to the souls of the users in the process. Similar to the difference between Haki users and Brook's interactions with Big Mom's Homies. I much, much, MUCH prefer imagining Yuji having to fight through the burning feeling on his hands to punch Ace while Ace is confused how someone without Haki can harm him as opposed to just "Cursed Energy = Haki, the end".
It is far more narratively intriguing to imagine how a character would work AROUND the discrepancies in power systems. I can imagine fight scenes and character interactions that are much more investing because of this. Asta would beat Deku, but not because he can randomly use Anti-Magic against Quirks, rather he'd have to rely on his superior stats and techniques in order to win.
@@Your7T7 The issue with this line of thought is that it should be nearly impossible to have a fight including a cursed spirit under it. Even characters with extra sensory abilities shouldn't be able to see jogo, because you would have to "verse equalize" the ghosts that those characters see to the cursed spirits of jjk. In your Ichigo vs jojo example, you are verse equalising jojo's spirits to bleach spirits, but they don't share any mechanics, they just have the same name/ core concept "being a ghost". It seems to me you are already verse equalising, no?
this my new favorite powerscaling video, i am so sick of hearing this term in general. like i get it some people think it makes things simpler{which is not always good btw), but it always seems to give one side an advantage. The most common one i hear is the genjutsu one lmao
6:16 The black folds running down Ichigo’s coat perfectly line up with his feet and make his legs look SKINNY ASF 😂
One form verse equalization I could agree with, is imagining that the characters live in the same universe, such that both characters have the baseline traits of each others' verses while their own power systems still function separately as normal.
For example if you took Gojo and Kakashi:
Gojo would have a chakra network by virtue of being a human from earth, but would have no use for it.
Likewise Kakashi would have cursed energy with zero ability in utilizing it.
It's funny how the Naruto fans truly abuse this term cause they know their verse would get stomped by other series if they can't use genjutsu lol
My friend, i was very pleased to find such a good video on a niche but interesting topic and will look into your catalog of videos in this plataform, but i come here with a request: could you do a video about how this comunity quantifies speed using light speed as a guide and how that impacts cross verse battles?
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it. If my understanding is correct, you'd like a video about how people quantify speed using light speed as a guide? And how it potentially impacts versus battles? Sure.
I find it more fun when you have to adapt to what doesn’t normally work, it really can shake things up in a fun way and allows to highlight what fighters are more skilled in multiple areas instead of relying one the hand full of borderline over-relied upon skills.
My good sir
You are doing God's work🙏🙏
Well made video. People are extremely lazy with equalization but it’s not really a surprise since people would rather simplify their arguments.
Also to bring up your itachi injecting chakra mention, he only does this so the opponent doesn’t have to look at him to be put in a genjustu. It has nothing to do with someone lacking a chakra network as it still relies on it and is a reach for Naruto fans to get genjustu to work cross verse.
Wait, I just saw what the thumbnail is. That's pretty funny. Ignoring the fact that Kaido's hand would go through Madara's entire chest cause of the sheer size difference, it's a humorous way of utilizing a panel from one of the worst moments in the Naruto story.
The thing i like about the gentle fist is that even if they dont fight chakra users its still possible to just poke at presure points like in avatar's character that chases the avatar with azula.
She can stop a user's bending(NOT APPLICABLE IN THIS FOR HYUGAS IF THEY DONT HAVE KNOWLEDGE ON PRESSURE POINTS) but hitting people in their joints csn wtilltire then but this requires the user to hsce knowledge of the human body outside of chakra networks and I've never seen hyugas do this
I'm curious, but would you be willing to discuss if Law's Ope Ope no Mi should be able to bypass Gojo's Infinity? Not as a full versus battle, just a short hypothetical what would happen scenario. I'm of the opinion Law could bypass Infinity because his abilities, especially the Room, seem like pure spatial and body manipulation. Just like how Logias are their natural elements, Law just has teleportation, spatial, body, and limited soul manipulation from his devil fruit.
I can definitely look into it
@@El_Eon_ Looking forward to what you think. Doesn't have to be immediately. Honestly I was guessing the video released today was either this verse equalization video or something on speed scaling.
@@msaag5490 I need to start reading again😂
@@El_Eon_ Good luck my guy. The inception for my idea is cause I think Sukuna's world slash isn't any different to the giant mega slash Law did to end the fight with Vergo in Punk Hazard. Law just has the advantage of not needing his own Mahoraga to adapt to Limitless, he can just do these things because that's just how the devil fruit system functions.
Actually now that I think about it, how did Law do that? Did he use his DF to cut Vergo and the entire mountain? It can't be pure swordsman skill like what Zoro could maybe do, Vergo didn't bleed. But we don't see a mountain sized Room to enable that slash to occur? His Awakening maybe? But that would question why Law never used it in Dressrosa. Oh boy. This is getting confusing.
@@msaag5490 I'll need all of my Brain power for this one😭
Verse-equalization is inherently the wrong term anyway, it should be called powersystem-equalization. Verse-equalization should be when the world's both characters inhabit are considered the same, like in gojo v makima you make them be from the same japan to keep makima's contract with the prime minister and simultaneously have everyone in the world have cursed energy so gojo's domain can target makima. Both gain something from it and it becomes a more interesting fight. If it's unfair towards one of the characters, DON'T DO IT.
Didn't agree, watched video, agreed mostly.
One things that I will do in the future to turn this on its head is to have a uniform version of cross universal powers and abilities a d how they affect each other in their respect universe. It’s gonna be a pain to write but I have been enjoying it lol
i love the wey you verse equalize when you scale i dont get why its so hard to grasp why you cant equalize power systems like haki and chakra there just fundamentally different and it makes so sense to compare will power to life energy
fuego content my guy
Yo I appreciate you my guy😭
This was a decent argument
I didn't realize there such a difference in what people think in terms of what verse equalization means.
like in my eyes ofc the byakugan would be virtually useless outside of the narutoverse since not many other verses have a "power network" that works similarly.
but Haki and chakra would work in similar ways since they are both a form of spiritual energy.
Basically in my eyes of verse equalization, if they don't have it in their show, they don't get it in the fight, and different power systems can mingle if they work in similar ways. If a OP character runs out of haki, he doesn't die, but if a Naruto character runs out of chakra, they die.
certain things can get a little tricky to work out (if you have to reach to make it work, then its best to just say no.), but I find it makes the fight more enjoyable to think about
One thing I find interesting is that some verse's aren't even verse equalized by power scalers like pretty much any material Art's verse were skill and physical stats are most important. And personally I find the interaction between different skills or hax's to be more interesting then who has the strongest stats.
I think the reason for that is because a lot of the time they are operating within the realms close to reality, so verse equalization is not needed. Their doing martial arts, they aren't shooting hadokens. In context its basically akin to saying "Can bruce lee beat Mike Tyson", nobody is verse scaling that its not relevant.
FINALLY IT NEEDED TO BE SAID!
I was gonna subscribe, but I went to check and realized I already am
For Problem #1, this isn't always the case. An example would be Kisame vs Gojo. The benefit for Kisame is that he would be able to aborb Infinity and hit Gojo. The benefits for Gojo would be that he can now analyze Kisame's techniques and Unlimited Void now works on him (assuming you don't think it works on people without Cursed Energy). It's also a way to make unfair circumstances fair. It's not really an interesting debate if it's just something like Sakura vs Rukia. "Oh, well Sakura can't see Rukia, so big L." That's stupid and lacks all nuance, thus Verse Equalization needs to come into play to make it a better discussion. For Problem #2, Asta for the most part should just be common sense. If he doesn't have any of the energy of his own verse, it makes no sense to give him another in another verse, because he wouldn't be able to use it either way. For Problem #3, most of this just comes down to common sense, but I agree sometimes it can be a bit hard to say how something would work against another. But like for example, if Ryu fired off a Granite Blast (a blast of pure Cursed Energy) at Nagato, through Verse Equalization, he would be able to absorb it since the Preta Path can absorb Chakra and Chakra equals Cursed Energy. Not something too hard to wrap your head around. Stuff like Haki and Devil Fruits are a bit more complicated especially since I haven't watched/read up to that point in One Piece yet so I can feel you on that. Some of your points for this problem aren't really that hard to answer if you think about it for more than 2 seconds though. For the Gojo analyzing One For All, that's more of an in-verse question than an out of verse one, since it's been debated how Gojo's Six Eyes work in that aspect, but it's more than likely that Gojo doesn't just know what your Cursed Technique does as soon as he looks at you, as was proven when he didn't know that Kenjaku was using his Body Swap technique on Geto. It probably just helps him deduce what a Cursed Technique does. The Kisame and Gojo thing is also an in-verse thing since of course if Infinity is made out of chakra, Samehada can absorb it, but there are debatea whether or not it's just pure spatial manipulation since it doesn't have any Cursed Energy that people can see. Sukuna wouldn't need to learn how to fly since he can already grab off the air. It seems like you put a lot of thought into this and while I disagree that Verse Equalization is bad as it makes for a less nuanced discussion I understand that with the content you do with One Piece in particular it can definitely throw a wrench in the works. I'm not even opposed to not doing Verse Equalization as it's interesting to see both sides of the coin, even if it's less interesting for me personally.
Reiatsu is even more iffy, since it works like a power and anti power system at the same time, hax and stats included, something that other power systems don't have, being merely a big number factor or a differencial quirk of the character.
Agreed, Reiatsu can act somewhat like Conqueror Haki or Ki in terms of negging a much much weaker foe or their ability. It can be used as both AP and DC. It has residual effects like leaving trail prints, damage on foes, or even healing. Depending on one's Reiryoku level will vary and reflect on their Reiatsu nature. It is a part of Bleach's toolkit.
Also, it isn't like Chakra, relying on your opponent to have a Chakra network for your abilities to work on like genjutsu. Bleach should do fairly well in a non-equalized fight.
Finally a good powerscaler who understand shit!!
u earn my sub man !!!
Whats fun about aokiji df is that not only would u not be able to damage him but youd damage yourself in the process
I like the content bro, but i do think you consider the one piece verse too high compared to where I would put them relatively.
I don't like verses equalization because it just not what really gonna happen
I love your videos
Amazing video man, I've always found verse equalisation to be super iffy in nature
@@moolcazy3805 thank you, I appreciate that, I mostly just made this video because I've noticed That this topic seems to be quite controversial when it comes to versus battles as a whole. Some people like it. Some people don't. There's nothing wrong with choosing to use it or staying away from it.
Nah dragon ball characters break and bend space time with feats, no equalization needed
What about doing a Katakuri vs edo Nagato and Itachi replacing naruto and bee btw? As a follow up of the pain one that was one sided af lol
I guess I take the stance (as I almost always do) of moderation in everything.
Complete verse equalization is dumb.
Zero verse equalization is also dumb.
There's no way to decide on the perfect point where it should lie, but I prefer to base it off the "feel" of the abilities.
To put it bluntly, I would abandon logic, which is also dumb.
Logia are invulnerable to conventional attacks, but would probably get harmed by a magic sword. Why? Because in verse, logia are invulnerable to conventional attacks, but can get harmed by special attacks.
Does conqueror's Haki one shot everyone? No. Strong willed people can withstand being near conqueror's haki without possessing it themselves. People from other verses would have that same level of passive defense, and could probably even contest a directed blast -- they just can't use it offensively. Does that make logical sense? No. But it makes narrative sense.
You could say that makes all of the fights subjective. I'd say that they always were.
“Logia are invulnerable to conventional attacks, but would probably get harmed by a magic sword. Why? Because in verse, logia are invulnerable to conventional attacks, but can get harmed by special attacks.”
I would say that the magic sword in question would need to have actual feats/properties of being able to tag characters who can turn into elements/intangible, otherwise assuming that it can hurt a logia just because it’s a “special attack” is baseless.
@@michaeldorsey9231 indeed, under that assumption I could say Naruto or goku can coat there hands in Chakra/Ki and grab the person because it's a special attack. I could say vilgax from Ben 10 alien force could grab a logia user because he grabbed big chill and that would be fine under these specific circumstances.
@@rossjones8656 I wouldn't give the grab to them if it was "normal" Chakra/Ki. So long as the attack respects the elemental matchups of a logia or has some characteristic, like attacking the soul, it should work. For example, Raikage could probably hurt Crocodile because he's covered in lightning which would directly affect Crocodile's sand.
@@ivantheenigma577 but it is under special attacks. Ki/chakra is special to a degree I mean you even had to put normal in quotation. I don’t believe this to be the case but the comment that these replies are tied to is to board. We can agree it's to broad and needs to be specific.
Based.
This video speaks to me on a personal level.
I think as long as you put a disclaimer and lay out the equalization terms, it is fine if not beneficial so that u can have interesting matchups that sometimes just aren't possible. With the aknowledgement that one side would just win if there wasn't equalization.
How would you deal with Asta in other universes with magic? Is all magic the same or does Asta's anti magic only work on black clover magic
For Example Asta VS Natsu?
It really depends, If you want to say all magic is inherently the same then you can probably make an argument for anti magic working against Natsu's fire dragon magic.
If you think they're different enough to where they aren't inherently the same thing because maybe Black clover magic is reliant on mana and fairy tale magic doesn't utilize mana (I haven't read it in a while So I could be wrong).
Just depends on how you're willing to reason it.
@@El_Eon_The answer is actually quite simple: Slayer Magic negates or at least highly resist anti-magic, as in Fairy Tail there are constructions that are immune or negate magic but they are getting affected by Slayer Magic
@@afanofjustice From the way anti-magic works it could be possible for Asta to over power slayer magic if he is stronger by a wide margin.
AM is almost a physical force rather then a magical one since it needs to overpower its opponent. Even within his own Verse characters that are like 3 times his strenght would beat him since his AM wouldn't be able to instantly overpower their mana.
You explained that in a very good way, you are definitely one of my favorite power scaling TH-camrs i have seen. Hey i have a little thought about something relating to one piece lore that I don't think anyone has thought about as far as I know, do you want to hear it?
Yeah
only thing i hate more than verse equalization is equal stats. especially if a character is based around one stat it essentially ruins their entire “build”.
Damn I never looked at things this way. It makes a lot of sense though. Not using verse equalization makes things more interesting since characters have to think outside the box in order to do damage to their opponent.
TL’DR Verse equalization is too disingenuous when it mostly used to buff one character to fight a character who has abilities that can’t be bypassed with the other character toolkit.
Also it weird how ppl mention haki can be ran out when it simply a character lacking the stamina to continue maintaining haki.
I love this video, but there is one small and insignificant thing I want to say:
Asta could POTENTIALLY cut through the technique. Curses are well curses. They're for the most part magic, and the inverted spear of heaven does a similar thing, cancelling out any and all cursed techniques. I think for a series that actually has a magic system like Fairy Tail vs Black Clover, you could make the argument that Asta should be able to negate the magic. But that's my two sense cause I find it funny lol
also I think you should do a video or .... 5 on the series Undead Unluck, it's genuinely amazing, on par with OP in terms of characters, story, world and has a pretty interesting power system. (I'm willing to explain more if anyone wants to hear lol)
I Agree with the Asta point. If characters in the universe call it magic and it acts similar to magic then it's just magic.
I also agree with the undead unluck thing it is one of the better anime slash manga that's come out recently can go as far as to say it's the best in my opinion.
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! god, i have ALWAYS hated verse equelization. but could never articulate why. "oh! don't get all your opinions from internet videos! you're a sheep if you do!" no. he simply expressed an opinion i've always had in a way i never could. thank you for this video, El. i have needed this for a while, evidently
13:20 goku would ignore limitless because when he blinks and the solar system collapses it would indeed bypass infinity 👍Besides that I agree with the entire video and appreciate the way you powerscale.
If we verse equalization specially the Chakra and Haki to give Naruto characters the advantage to counter logias and conquerors haki, then we can presume that Luffy having a top tier bloodline of Haki user, being part of D clan and a reincarnation of a God and a vast amount of Haki can also have the same chakra poll as Naruto with or without kurama, and by the same logic, Luffy can theoretically perform any type of Jutsu while Naruto characters cannot perform DF abilities since it's not Haki/Chakra related.
So basically "Do you want my clones to use G5 and Bajrang Gun or not?"
And since Luffy has acquired the Advance type of Hakis then we can also presume he can also have the sage chakra and other types of Chakra like the kekegenkai thing.
Win win situation lol
@@50shadesofhappinessoffilip33 have you ever read naruto before? even if he did have high amounts of chakra he would still need to learn how to use the jutsus and also luffy would never be able to learn sage mode he wouldnt be able to stand still for very long knowing luffy he would get hungry and turn into stone and die
@@GODEATER2Luffy practically trained for 2 years in rukushaina forest and went without food for days and days when Rayleigh felt like he wasn't doing well enough
@@GODEATER2 sage chakra, not sage mode because if you verse equalization, advance armament haki=sage chakra therefore Luffy can theoretically use it and achieve sage mode faster.
Luffy might be dumb but adapting to his opponents and his battle IQ is pretty good, considering that his power depends on his imagination, he can possibly perform a jutsu by just watching because you EQUALIZE verse, he is a master of Haki and using it.
I just want to know if Spiritual Pressure(Bleach) and Conq Haki(OP) would be similar against each other?
If you're asking whether or not they have similarities then I'm sure one can find a few.
Whatever effect they would have on a person with Haki or Spiritual Pressure is probably what would happen.
It's a very subjective topic
Spiritual Pressure affects the soul directly, while CH affects the "will" of the opponents(if we ever have some link to the soul in One Piece, it would be almost the same)
Beings with higher Reiatsu can simply crush you with their soul's pressure, much more effective than CH as it is less "avoidable" lets say.
@@saul4058 If you can find reasoning to support your claim, I don't see why you couldn't argue it. Although it's still ultimately head canon
@@El_Eon_ ...Reasoning? Bro, it is stated the moment it was introduced(Kenpachi vs Ichigo 1st fight). As for CH, i cant say for sure when it was first introduced but it has been like that since Shanks saved Luffy from that sea king. Im not dismissing any of them, just stating that they could be similar in a way or another🫤
@@saul4058 I wasn't trying to attack you, or dismiss your said, I only meant that if you could find some reasoning backed by evidence then you could make an argument.
I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with the notion.
I know this feeling all to well but for a different reason.
I write fanfiction and I've done crossovers and only one have i tried to equize things and my friend has tried to make sure a rule place in one of the shows is true and it does cause headaches.
Along with haki there are the fruit property counters. Luffy could hit Enel because of the inherent rock paper scissors nature of rubber vs electricity. Proper technique could counter things. Like that water prison jutsu that zabuza used on kakashi would easily defeat any devil fruit user, if it lands, but they could still just dodge it.
fire vid and plus im first
Thank you so much
3rd
I agree I also love talking about character more in depth but most stuff is just agenda if someone wants to say set character beats this character even tho they shouldn't be able to touch them they'll say verse equalization. I mostly use it with new anime fans who just want to see characters fight and stuff go boom while telling them this isn't how the fight would truly go just a short answer with a lot of rules
That’s how I feel about equal stats, like it really doesn’t help because if I have godly levels of durability and that’s gone my fighting style (which is based around that) is now lesser than it should be
Alright so I have a question for you then: How does anyone who doesn’t have spiritual pressure not get immediately vaporized when getting near Ichigo? There are ways of sensing him sure but in canon the only way of stopping something like that is to have near equal spiritual pressure yourself or to be on the same or higher tier of existence.
Most of the time VE isn’t mean’t to give anyone an advantage, but allow the characters to interact in the first place
P.S.: I guarantee you even with VE no one with a Rinnegan is absorbing a full power Kamehameha from Goku
"Alright so I have a question for you then: How does anyone who doesn’t have spiritual pressure not get immediately vaporized when getting near Ichigo?" They don't. Ichigo sweeps. How is this a difficult question? How does anyone hit Gojo through infinite space? How does anyone not get screwed by All Fiction? How does anyone hit the Flash?
Just because you don't value aspects of a character doesn't mean you get to take them away for the sake of nerfing them into arguably losing to your favorite. Ichigo casually wipes Goku out of existence, sucks to suck. If you're going to include every aspect of a character to make a realistic versus- you have to accept that some verses have characteristics that make them impossible to beat.
As for your post scirpt- the Rinnegan doesn't have a limit to how much it can absorb, it stops the attack before absorbing it. As seen when the path of pain with that ability stops the rasenshuriken in it's tracks while absorbing it. So yes they could absorb all of Goku's Ki as he blasts them with a full power Kamehameha with VE. Which is dumb. Ki does not work like Chakra, you can't overload yourself with Chakra unless you're absorbing sage charkra and corrupted by it, or are a robot with built in limits. The Rinnegan has neither of these issues against a Chakra Kamehameha. But in DBZ we clearly see a Ki absorber get blown up by absorbing too much ki.
Even if we take the garbage Boruto examples into account- there didn't seem to be any sort of limit to what the movie villain could absorb as long as their hand eye faced the jutsu.
And even with all of that, what you should be more concerned with is what happens if we put either of the 10 tails Jinjuriki against anyone else with VE. If EVERYONE is using Chakra and Ninjutsu, 10 tails Obito becomes completely immortal, as he was 100% immune to ninjutsu and chakra that wasn't sage jutsu or nature chakra.
@@lususnaturae881 except if you apply one thing you have to apply the other with VE and in Dragon Ball characters can straight up negate hax with sheer strength of ki. And even if you do want to say that it can absorb ki infinitely, that doesn’t equate to negating the speed of the attack, the destructive potency of the attack, nor does it mean that the path would be able to handle the power that it absorbs. A full powered kamehameha from goku is a multiversal level attack in potency, we’ve seen nothing in Naruto or Boruto to say that anyone in the show, nevermind the preda path, can handle that level of destructive power.
Also, I’m more of a fan of Bleach than I am of Dragon Ball or Naruto and without VE Goku could very much still one shot the Bleach Verse except Yhwach
@@lususnaturae881 Different circumstances.
Ichigo would solo every verse solely because they don’t have his power system. The same mechanics of which make him impossible to touch or interact with at all, meaning we cannot discuss fights with Ichigo against any other story, regardless of if they literally can see ghosts or not, cause it’s not Reiatsu.
That’s stupid. It’s the exact problem everyone complains about Verse Equality with- like, you’re pretending a special technique that’s mechanics work regardless of the powers of the opponent is comparable in example to victory that literally only derived from this being a cross verse discussion. It’s obviously dishonest, because it takes a sliver of reasoning ability to recognize that, given both characters have powers that map onto one another conceptually, there’s no reason they cannot interact according to the mechanics and tactics that are in-character. Goku would never bother casting a fireball even if he could do so, cause he never displayed that ability (outside of the time he could breathe fire in GT as a Golden Ape). He doesn’t need to copy the Rasengan either, cause he already routinely puts a ball of Ki in his hand and pushes it into you. He might be able to make his own Ki version of the Rasengan, but it’d be using his own powers.
Your reasoning sucks, because a proper usage of verse equality would never give characters abilities they would never use. 😂 nor does it enable anything other than the fact that they can see, fight, and affect one another under the normal circumstances that anyone else in their world (without their power system’s mechanics) would be affected.
@@napalmelderlich no you don’t. You don’t have to apply anything, actually. You just have to say “Goku can be hit with Genjutsu (in theory)”. That’s it. Nothing else, especially since Goku, for example, has resistance to mind manipulation in his own verse.
If they can’t beat it in their world, why do you think they could beat it in a different world?
@@lususnaturae881 and no. Obito can still get his pussy pounded by Puri Puri Prisoner. His immunity to most ethereal attacks doesn’t cover surviving backshots. 😂
Ganon vs Goku, Ganon cannot be defeated by anything other than the Master Sword so he wins. Verse equalization is dumb!
The Inventory Curse vs Gold Experience Requiem, Curses cannot be exorcised without cursed energy so it wins. Verse equalization is dumb!
Ganon can be sealed and be defeated without Master Sword, it needed to kill him and death isn’t the only way to end the battle
How would you handle something like Medaka Kurokami/Medaka Box or Rogues from MARVEL/X-Men copying abilities?
Medaka's especially fun, since she can copy the two branches of Skills, but takes a full arc to learn a Style, and it's noted to be pretty basic. It _might_ be sensible to equalise anything else to Styles (at least in terms of how manipulable it is).
Beautiful brake down
Like how would certain things work like Genjutsu. People in OP don't have a Chakra network to manipulate so what good will chakra do. If haki = chakra are they saying Luffy could learn Rasengane what about nature chakra as far as I know the one piece planet doesn't have haki. So much doesn't fit but it's all ignored for the sake of Verse equalistion.
Basically
Thanks for the vid. It was amazingly explained❤@@El_Eon_
Genjutsu literally works on people without chakra lol
Infact chakra is something you need to create in the Naruto verse that civilians don't have
(Chakra network also isn't an actual network in your body it's just how you flow your chakra in the first place) This whole genjutsu needs chakra thing is completely unsupported
@@adididavidi6185 everything you just said is objectively wrong.
@@El_Eon_ no u
13:19 Yes, yes he would. Goku is capable of shaking or almost destroying Universe 7's macrocasm (which contains 3 infinite size worlds) so his punches would be able to bypass infinity.
No he wouldn't. Macrocasm is an insane fan theory, the DBZ universe is not infinite in size and it's not 3 infinite sized worlds and Goku is NOT capable of shaking the universe. That is Beerus, and Goku is FAR weaker than Beerus and likely always will be. You cannot scale Goku to the guy who casually defeats him. EVEN IF YOU DID his punches STILL wouldn't bypass infinity because you CAN'T BYPASS INFINITY. That's not how LOGIC works.
If you attack with infinite force into a infinite corridor, it will never exceed the corridor, If you attack with infinite force, +1, you STILL won't bypass the infinite corridor because INFINITY IS INFINITE. INFINITY +10000000000000000000000 or INFINITY + INFINITY IS STILL EQUAL TO INFINITY. You're dividing by zero.
This is why Goku is a shit character. He casually does shit that people argue completely breaks reality and logic like he's a gag character and people still think he should be taken seriously. Dude's been getting power ups beyond what his fans call infinite power. Which is so dumb it hurts. He's Bugs Bunny with a fandom who sucks his dick.
He hasn't done anything feat wise truly more impressive since Dragon Ball with the original Kamhameha. Sure they talk all this shit about "oooo he could do this he could do that, he could blow up the world! NO. HIS FIGHTS MAY DESTROY THE UNIVERSE" yet NOTHING bigger than a mountain EVER gets destroyed during a fight. It's always all talk no consequences. Given how clearly stupid the world of Dragon Ball is to the point they mistake 50 minutes with 5 minutes, I'm inclined to believe everything ever said about Goku is complete bullshit.
Power levels are dumb.
Off topic but what are you quick thoughts on the Konoha 11 vs the worst generation?
I think it comes down to how fundamental the power interaction is. For example, Orochi can copy martial arts. This obviously means he can copy other universes styles if they're purely physical, but what about Haki and Chakra? He can copy styles that require an understanding of the flow of the universe as well as copying also working on Metal Bat's fighting spirit, so should logically work on Haki. But Chakra? That requires a great deal of specific esoteric knowledge regardless of skill level.
Haki is more fundamentally just spirit/will manifestation while Chakra is more esoteric and specific.
Again, it's down to how fundamentally similar they are.
i definitely agree verse equalization is stupid because not all verses use one power system only , in black clover they have ki and magic , with verse equalization which would the other verse get? also if one side gets one ability shouldn't it be also apply to the other side as well? just bias in debates lol
I don’t know who y’all are talking to or debating with but seasoned debaters, and honest debaters know that verse equalization means that the respective power systems become effective against each other and nothing more. For the sake of this argument let’s say Naruto and Asta fought in this fight Naruto has higher AP with them having similar speed. (BTW I’m using Six Paths Naruto and Post Elf Arc Asta. Follow with me it doesn’t necessarily matter who you think is stronger/faster.) Anyway Asta’s main gimmick is to negate and absorb magic/negate durability/precognition however Naruto doesn’t use magic meaning one of Asta’s main gimmicks doesn’t do anything however Naruto’s whole thing is to be able to negate durability, existence erasure, multiple layers of precognition, mind hax and being punch/kick merchant/stamina monster. Now Asta has one win condition while Naruto has three without me bringing up his ability to spam clones nigh equal to himself in strength. With verse equalization Asta now gets access to his full power set now being able to absorb/negate ninjutsu HE DOESN’T get access to any ability he did not already have. Here’s the thing right in nearly every example you’ve given as to why verse equalization is bad I can argue the opposite. Not only that in anime like Naruto where a character has to face abilities similar to another cross universe ability they’d be able to resist or counter that ability. For example Naruto has fought people who can absorb his energy so what does he do? Throw feints use misdirection so they can’t win so easily. Examples include his fight against Pain, Delta, Ishikki, Momoshiki, Sasuke, and Toneri/Kaguya. He’s found a way to effectively counteract people who can negate energy based attacks. Not only that I could argue Asta absorbing Naruto’s Energy would poison him as shown during the Pain fight, and Kurama’s chakra is also shown to be poisonous burning the skin if he doesn’t like you or wants it to harm you.
How would Anti-magic interact with six paths senjutsu enhanced attacks?
Also, all that stuff you said at the end is head canon.
This is what I'm saying people misuse and misinterpret how verse equalization works and spread that misinterpretion and this guy just got the brunt force of it and made a video where he clearly doesn't understand how it works.
Anybody that has been powerscaling for a long time or have an understanding of how the concepts work, understand that this video but rather confirms why verse equalization works.
Verse equalization doesn't give or take away abilities, it just allows two characters from different universes to interact
But Asta can't absorb chakra so you're giving asta and ability he doesn't have.
@@nbell0089 it's a fan made term, there is no misinterpreting just because you have your own interpretation of what a made up term means.
Saying I don't understand How it works just because it doesn't fit your narrative is disingenuous.
And you would be wrong in thinking that two characters from separate verses can't interact in the first place, even without it.
@@El_Eon_ Basically despite understand how verse equalization works you think it’s better not include when the inverse of the argument you used is EXACTLY WHY verse equalization is applied in verses battles. Basically without things like Verse Equalization Logia become infinitely more broken. Imagine having characters who scale relative to OP in speed but have higher AP losing just because they “can’t interact with Logia/s”. That’s dumb.