I Hate The Agarthans And All They Stand For
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
- Snake people, I don't like 'em. Bear witness to twenty solid minutes of me losing my mind over this basement dwelling dubstep rave club.
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On the subject of Cornelia: Did she dress like that before being body-snatched, so it was necessary for Cleo to maintain their cover, or did Cleo just go "Well, if I've got these, I might as well show them off."
Cleobulus is confirmed Male in Three Hopes early game. Considering Dimitri said ‘Cornelia’s’ behaviours suddenly changed overnight, so yes, the og Cornelia was always like that, and Cleobulus took full advantage of that
@@LFPman if you mean that line from Arundel/Thales, that was a slight typo. The jp audio used generic pronoun and the localization associated to Cleobulus and assumed it's a male name.
I dunno but it’s hilarious either way
@@hajimemochizuki3799They may have been crossreferencing Three Houses rather than it being a mistake. Cleobulus has unused data and is assigned both male gender and a male generic portrait. It wouldn't be the first time a localization choice was inspired by internal data.
@@lpfan4491 honestly, I can see the localization go for unused data if the main game rather than consult with the writers. Then again, I don't think that would improve the story either way.
15:01 watching this again and I just realized that the "very, very angry Dimitri" is considered so horrifying that he gets a category separate from the 3 armies breathing down Thales's throat
I mean...is it wrong?
Tactical Dimitri Incoming!
I too would be scared of a man made of nothing but rage and the Atrocity combat art. That guy can deal effective damage to the whole universe and is a few words away from doing so.
Dimitri crushed a man's skull with just his hand (think he was wearing a helmet too)
@@xacmashe3852
He was wearing a helmet
The thing is their actions in the Tragedy of Duscur almost makes Those Who Verb in the Noun look like master manipulators. Volkart Arundel reading the writing on the wall in the Empire and realizing he needed to get Edelgard out to her mother in Faerghus made sense. But he couldn't have known her mother's best friend, Cornelia, was already body snatched by then. Cornelia kept Anselma, Patricia, separate from King Lambert, using the political justification of
"You can't let everyone know you're boning the Emperor's woman"
Which was a doubly good move because Patricia knew her daughter was supposed to be coming so the fact Cornelia kept Edelgard from her while convincing her Lambert was the one keeping them apart on purpose drove a wedge between them and set the foundation for the Tragedy of Duscur. And it sounds so good but then she gets on screen and it's just
"MUAHAHA I'M SO EVIL!"
“Those Who Verb in the Noun” LMAOOOOOOO
Perhaps she figured she had everything in the bag like all of the Agarthans in the game seemed to. A lot of them read as overly arrogant and riding the high of their past labors, almost always to the detriment of themselves in-universe and of the story as a whole. Part of that could be because Three Houses/Hopes never really establish a clear endgame for them, instead opting to write them as though they had already won or something to that effect, part of it could be in service of the gameplay, I dunno. Regardless of why tho it does make all of _The Individuals who Partake in Snake-Like Means of Locomotion Within Domains That Lack Adequate Lighting_ come off as massive Saturday Morning cartoon villains in a story that's going for something way more serious.
"Discount Grimleals" says a lot given that the Grimleals were already a discount Loptr Sect.
Eh, I can see why you'd call them "discount" since they're both crazed dark cults, but:
The "Loptr Sect" basically believed it's the 'divine' right of the dark-dragon Loptous to make humanity suffer under his reign, just for the fun of it. The dragon they worshipped was evil from the start, escaping Archanea to torture a whole other continent of humanity.
As far as can be gleaned, the "Grimleal" wish for the total erasure of _everything,_ believing that Grima is their "god of destruction" destined to end the whole world. Based on the "Schism" background event [briefly mentioned in only one chapter of Awakening], he almost succeeded at one point.
Meanwhile, the Agarthans (TWSITD) are just a band of sore-losers led by Thales, perfectly willing to blow themselves up just to get revenge against "the beasts" (both Nabateans _and_ humanity alike).
"Mom, can we have the Loptr Sect at home?"
"We have the Loptr Sect at home at home!"
The Loptr Sect at home at home:
The Loptr Sect were just a discount Duma Faithful. : P
@@LightMageMike And the Duma Faithful were just a discount Dolhr. :3
@@whiteraven1992 Dohlr is... Uh... Discount Marmo?
Edegard/demitri route: we did it we saved the world
Twsitd: hehehe boi
Based Chilon coming to take the surface
Dimitri kills literally every Slither with a face, and all but two with names. I don't think the lower-management that showed up in VW/SS are really much of a threat.
Dont the Crimson epilouges confirm that Edelgard won the war against the Slitherers?
@@DennisH.-og2pj it does sort of. Edelgard's ending cards says she turned her attention to Those Who Cook in the McDonald's after the war was over and the mural shows Hubert in the background and a Slitherer mixed in with some nobles. So a 2nd shadow war did happen and while it doesn't explicitly state the end result, we can assume she won.
But that means about as much as Hapi's ending card stating she and her animal friends went hunting for Shambhala after the War was over. Everyone wanted to actually go down there and wipe them out personally. It's not like there was a reason it couldn't be done. Shambhala is available on the VW and SS routes and it's not like 3H has any compunction about reusing maps.
@@elevate07if you s rank jeritza in crimson flower, their ending scene takes place while they're fighting in shambhala. It's safe to assume theyve cleared out the agarthans in crimson flower.
So Thales was just Starscream all along
My thoughts exactly!
“You can’t keep me in here Seiros! Aaaagh!”
Thales makes more sense when you realize he’s not like Manfroy, but Narcian for FE6.
The Agarthans are the embodiment of 3H's writing flaws: concepts that are so cool that you wish they were done well. Another great upload Hearth
Glad you enjoyed it
Literally my stance on the entirety of Fire Emblem Fates
Disagree personally, I think that TWSITD are good villains and serve as the catalyst for the main conflicts, and reinforces the theme of ones limited perspective that clouds the full picture of the causes of any conflict. they also have really cool lore undercurrents
@carsonist501 they are like a poor man's Loptuous sect. Feels like they are held back and make to be purposefully incompetent to benefit CF.
@@scion513 GRAAAGH CORRIN
Love what they could be and how cool their Dragon form looks, hate how it's brought up for like a second and no one brings it up, I doubt Corrin saying "DRAGON UP" would've changed Keaton's mind, but it's one of those things that makes me wish Fates got a rerelease (for the multiplayer/gameplay) and a story rewrite, but I'm kinda tired of Dragon MCs anyways
These fuckers indirectly saved the Church (their top opps) in two different timelines just to prolong the war, absolutely ruined the second half of the timeline that they didn't, and invaded a Garreg Mach where their biggest enemy factions were present with no goal besides "Fuck everybody".
Worst part is, all of their strength is in their technology, subterfuge, and forgotten magic. Solon got clapped, Kronya only killed Jeralt by sneak attack before getting clapped, Cleobulus got clapped the moment he stepped onto an actual battlefield, and Thales is THE villain of all Fódlan... and he's a complete bitch compared to pretty much every other major character.
Now to be fair, Kronya got backstabbed and Solon fought the newly reawakened Progenitor God who he literally could not have ever prepared to fight. Fuck everyone else though, they knew about Byleth, they should have had plans in place from that moment on to deal with them.
Regarding the whole “Duke Aegir and Thales tearing the empire apart instead of fighting the war” thing, recall: Edelgard’s reformist faction has just been couped out of power. This means all the people in her bureaucracy and army who she appointed for their competence are likely out of power. This means their entire officer corp has just been gutted. We also know Edelgard was also relatively popular in Adrestia, her rising up of people based on merit won her the loyalty of her people and her new government. Thus, when Thales and Ludwig came back into power, all these people had to be removed from their positions of authority (hence why we don’t see Hubert or Ferdinand). This would piss EVERYONE off in Adrestia, requiring Ludwig and Thales to scramble to find new officers to suppress all the new rebellions that just cropped up (because when you remove a bunch of angry military men from power, they tend to get revolty). So they need to recreate almost half of their entire command structure, and in the scramble, they get desperate enough for people who would be loyal (nevermind being COMPETENT) and being willing to go kill some of their own countrymen who got fucked over by the new government that they start hiring people like Metodey
The fact the empire is even able to scramble something together during the winter and actually put up a half decent defense against the Kingdom and Alliance is down right ASTONISHING
based take
@@basileusbasil4041it’s more just a logical conclusion based off what we know. Among the imperial nobility there is a surprisingly small amount of Ludwig supporters, the Ludwig supporter with the largest amount of land is Viscount Essar (Grégoire Von Varley doesn’t count, he’s too much of a coward to do anything openly against Edelgard)
@@scion513 there seems to be a misunderstanding here, my comment wasn't one of scorn but jubilation and agreement.
Remember that both Lindhardt and Caspar's fathers were still in the employ of Duke Aegir while Edelgard was being used as a puppet. So it's not like they removed EVERYONE who was competent.
The ministers likely had enough sense in their heads to recognize what was going on but decided to comply because there were two hostile armies threatening to invade their lands, so they had to focus on that first.
Many of Adrestia's soldiers likely didn't have enough intel on what was going on with Edelgard. Seeing their figurehead side with Aegir and Arundel who were both in positions of authority before Edelgard's coronation likely didn't raise too many eyebrows. Edelgard also made a point of taking down Thales and Aegir (relatively) *quietly* in the first chapter of Scarlet Blaze because she knew that the knowledge of internal strife would cause unrest in the Empire.
We, as the player, know a LOT more about the goings on in the Empire than the average Empire citizen/soldier. The power struggles at the top are kept out of the domain of public knowledge, which would explain how the Insurrection of the Six was a success and the Empire didn't fracture into civil war when they found out their Emperor had been deposed.
Hubert obviously had to be dealt with immediately, he was far too loyal to Edelgard. Ferdinand would've opposed his father, so he couldn't be allowed to run amok either, as it would weaken Aegir's position.
But the rest of the Black Eagles are fine. Caspar and Lindhardt even fight alongside their fathers. Even Monica was still present in the defense of Adrestia.
Also, Duke Aegir isn't totally far gone as far as loyalty is concerned. He is still loyal to Adrestia in his own way, he simply has too much pride (Ferdinand is similar, but has enough humility to face reality, something his father lacks) and rebelled against Edelgard in Scarlet Blaze because she dismissed him from his position, which he felt entitled to because he was a noble.
Duke Aegir was essentially the very foundation that Edelgard was rebelling against. An entitled and incompetent ruler who inherited his position, rather than earning it.
@@LAZERAK47V2 correct, they didn’t remove everyone. Edelgard still has Allies in the nobility that stuck around. Viscount Hymir sacrifices his life saving Duke Gerth, with his last wish being that Duke Gerth continue their goal of restoring Edelgard to power. As for Count Bergliez and Count Hevring, they aren’t really aligned with Edelgard’s goals. They seem to be more so part of a revanchist faction, and Caspar and Linhardt lack the ideological bent Ferdie and Hubie have.
What seems to have occurred is that the new regime annihilated their mid levels of bureaucracy and military command. All the middle level officers and bureaucrats who carry make the lower levels carry out the orders of the higher levels. Meanwhile, the pro Edelgard nobles are just pushed out of sight, but still around.
As for the lower ranks, there would likely also be a lot of desertions from the army, leading to mere bandits and penal units being recruited to fill in the gaps, along with mercenaries of course, including less savory ones like the ones we hear of in Shamir’s paralogue. Regardless, it is clear that much of the empire’s military officers and bureaucrats were removed (unsure how violently it was), and replaced with a ramshackle mess of borderline bandits and people who got their jobs by nepotism.
Also, Ferdinand does have his place in Edelgard’s regime, as a voice of restraint of sorts, but also as someone who makes Edelgard think through the negative impacts some of her reforms might have and thus suggesting additions to said reforms that will lessen or negate said issues.
Also, to clarify something regarding the insurrection: Ionius IX was not deposed outright, but rendered a puppet emperor, Roman Empire style.
Also, a fun little thing, we actually have a semi decent of which houses supported Duke Aegir, and it’s surprisingly few:
Houses Aegir, Fenja, Essar, Martyn, Gillingr, and Menja are all part of what I term for anti reform faction (or the reactionary faction)
House Lochin seems to be of the Gloucester sort “I’m just keeping my lands safe, never mind everyone else’s ambition” house Gillingr is a bit vague if I recall, but he clearly has no regard for friendly fire on Viscount Lochin’s people as he starts burning down Viscount Lochin’s capital to kill the kingdom army.
Also, interesting to note, all these houses except for Aegir and fenja are in the Adrestian part of Mach (Mach being the region where all the asshole western nobles in faerghus are) so it seems Mach is just the land of asshole nobles.
Even then, Viscount Menja’s heir is pro Edelgard, and out of all these houses (other than Aegir) house essar has the most land.
Three houses really needed one recruitable Agarthan. Hell maybe it could have been Anna and then give her some actual supports that hint at it or something. I just feel like the game desperately needed some supports that go into their side of the story more.
I really think Anna should have been a golden Deer character due to her weirdness, an Abyss dweller or an Agarthan. Also, I really thought Monika/Kronya was going to be playable on 3houses or hopes just to give us Agarthan story or supports, they really dropped the ball.
Ironically the exact same position Caesar's Legion was in: They needed a companion to make them make sense, but they never got that companion and because there's no actual justification for their actions, they are instead just cartoonishly evil bad guys who exist solely so other plots (like House Always Wins/Wild Card) can make sense.
If they had written Kronya better, saving her from Solon would have made her a good candidate for a "we are not friends, but neither are we enemies." type of ally who in her later supports would teach you things about their culture, their hate for the Children of Sothis, and then in the end Secret Nemesis Route! xD
@@kuronanestimare the legion is cartoonishly evil because they're a fascist death-drive cult that are meant to represent the inherent farce and humorous grotesqueness of right wing politics in america. He doesn't actually know Hegel for a reason. Not every alignment needs to be good; some people in real life are deeply stupid and unsympathetic
'[It] could have been more."
That's it. That's Three Houses.
In all honesty, I think that the actual explanation for Ephimenides never being mentioned in lore is very simple. He was created for 3 Hopes after the fact in order to be an "equal" to Sothis. The reason why he's comparatively good is because KT wanted to show Sothis as an angry and uncaring God in 3 Hopes (the devs own words btw). Judging by the game files it seems like they realized the issue they created and wanted to make a DLC to fix it but unfortunately, the franchise was moving onto Engage and because 3 Hopes was only about 3 Houses it was time for it to be shelved for the new title.
As I thought from what I heard in that video "that seems out of character from what we know of Sothis", course I've never played 3Hopes and never want to with so much character butchering I've heard of that happens in it that drove me away from it.
I mean honestly you can make her being willing to take control of Byleth work by having the reason be that she could have in three houses but didn’t see the need to as she liked and trusted Byleth but in three hopes she doesn’t because without becoming a teacher Byleth never really shows their more emotional side and remains the ashen demon a ruthless killer so sothis is more aggressive towards them
@daxfer2945 It's a common complaint about 3 Hopes the whole game's existence just feels like a fanfic.
@TrueBladeSoul The funny thing is Byleth is actually more emotive in 3 Hopes making the decision really feel more like a character assassination.
@@brightlight8852 to be fair it’s not a bad fanfic just in need of some polish minor tweaks
It's like they were made purely to anger the player. In Azure Moon, Cornelia was set as one of the main villians and basically a reflection of all the pain and suffering of Dimitri's past (that's sort of my interpretation), and when you defeat her, instead of being the satisfying victory before one of the game's best moments, when Fhirdiad's people celebrate Dimitri's return as their true king, she instead dies laughing and revealing probably the most hurtful truth to Dimitri, almost breaking him again. Honestly, very few other characters in videogames have made me want to punch a hole through my screen.
And then there's Thales, always looking down on humanity, but the thing that I hate about him the most is in the mission when we invade their base, when he says "I don't care if I destroy Shambala, as long as I kill these intruders", showing that he doesn't even care about his own people in the slightest. One detail that always sticked with me is that there is an agarthan theif in Shambala, which at first sight doesn't mean much, but when you think about it, the agarthans, an almost extint race of highly intelligent individuals, "supposedly" all united with their hatred towards the goddess and her followers, has thieves among them. This means two things: either Thales is such an incredibly incompetent leader that he can't keep his city in check, or every agarthan is evil just for the sake of being evil.
Also, one of the things I hated the most from Three Hopes is that Kronya and Solon get an early reveal (and basically TWSITD as a whole) but they do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING until they come back in the late game just to die anyway. Why?
I always wished that TWSITD were the final enemy in Three Houses as they are the masterminds behind everything and when Three Hopes got announced, them being the main antagonists just seemed logical, but in the end they just gave us Three Houses 1.5, with TWSITD feeling almost LESS important than they were in Three Houses. I was left with such disappointment I couldn't even bring myslef to finish the rest of the routes in Three Hopes.
The ones who rave in the dark
To be somewhat of a devil’s advocate, Thales is pretty much established, even in the story, to be a shortsighted warmonger. I’m entirely not surprised at how he changed the culture of the Agarthans after Epimenedes.
Cleobulus most likely *was* a good actor, but finally succumbed to their impatience and ego, which led them to be the person we see today that’s not very different from Thales in terms of thought.
Solon is, well, Solon. God complex master mage, I can’t really defend him other than saying he’s probably one of Thales’s oldest allies, which explains his thought process and that his plan with Zahras wasn’t actually a terrible one. There was no way to predict that Byleth and Sothis would fuse, he tried taking out two birds with a single stone.
Kronya actually brings the biggest point of Thales changing the culture of the Agarthans that I see. She’s (probably) the youngest Agarthan we know, and is emblematic of what’s happened to them. She’s shortsighted, prejudiced, self centered, and over all thirsty for a twisted sort of revenge. She *is* however quite kind to her own people, see her reaction of being happy to work with Solon or her actually thanking Thales.
I can’t say I hate the Agarthans as they are, I just wish we got to see more of them and their motivations, and characters. Oh well.
@@YOOT_JJ Thales was definitely not the greatest tactician or strategist, but I think what really betrays the Agarthan mindset is that the rest of them still fall in line, which shows how fascistic they all are.
Moreover, over the past thousand or so years in which he was the sole leader, there were quite a few strategic wins, especially since the Agarthans don't actually care much about their own lives or their ability to keep on going.
I am honestly excited to see how many new nicknames you come up for them
The Roast of Those Who Beep-Box in the Deep. Unexpected but not unwelcome to see this.
Great video, just want to point out a small mistake: Shambhala is not in Alliance territory, it is in the empire. Specifically, it is in the mountains of Hrym in the Empire, which can be seen in the battle select screen. Where the confusion likely comes from (as I initially had this wrong as well) is that Hilda mentions that she was surprised how close Shambhala was to her territory. This is true, as the mountains of Hrym are near Goneril. However, most people just assume that by nearby she means in the Alliance, which is incorrect.
"A very angry Dimitri pointed at thalas"
Dude i dont think think theres a worse thing to be facing in fodlan then an angry Dimitri. Pretty sure Nemesis would at minimum Struggle with that
Stumbled on this video and its good! Definitely covers some good point on why the agarthens struggle as villains. Man thalas was just....the worst boss they could ask for lol
I mean, if Crestless Holst can 1v1 Nemesis and come out alive, then I think Dimitri as a chance at killing him. The crest of blaiddyd is fucking insane in terms of how strong it is (we only have Dimitri’s minor crest of blaiddyd as an example, I shudder to imagine what a major crest of blaiddyd is capable of)
@@scion513 this is true and because of the crest dimitri does have atrocity, which would HURT
So yeah dimitri could probably take nemesis
Info dump time!
Regarding the bodies and cores (probably artificial crest stones, which we know they have, as they are the name of the weapon the demonic beasts the Agarthans made use), I’m more partial to the idea that so long as the core is safe, that particular agarthan survives. I’m particular, there is this dialogue from Cornelia in Three Hopes while they are dying. To quote:
Cornelia: “Urgh... So this body has reached its end. How pitifully frail you all are...”
then they collapse. They say this in what can only be described as a mildly annoyed tone, like they don’t care that they’re dying. This leads me to believe that Agarthans can survive having their body being destroyed, and so long as the core survives, they can come back in a different body like they’re Tolkien Elves or Warhammer 40k Aeldari.
There is also another comment from this dialogue “how pitifully frail you all are…”
This statement implies that Agarthan bodies are out right different from regular human bodies, so there is a possible genetic component to the difference between Sothis humans and Agarthans, and that the pale skin and weird features are natural to them.
Some friends and I did discuss the possibility that the Agarthan pale bodies are actually artificial, scientific creations as part of their creation of Immortality, as this artificial body would not age and thus not need to be replaced. This would also add a fun bit of hypocrisy on the agarthan’s part that I think works nicely with the narrative, acting all superior, despite this superiority they have being purely external to what they are all stemming from what they have created or their forefathers created, and nothing inherent to themselves. I do like this theory, as making the Agarthans just superior humans 2 kinda feels repetitive, and the Nabateans fill that role already to a large extent.
However, it does beg the question of why use which body. Kronya, some grunt, uses a proper agarthan body, while Myson, who seems to take command in Azure Moon when Thales as Volkhard falls at Deirdriu, usually sticks to a regular human looking body (maybe because he interacts with regular humans more or he is hesitant to get his main body destroyed or it already was destroyed?)
Regardless, if the artificial body hypothesis is true, it is likely they are not easily replaceable, if at all.
Nevertheless, regarding the nature of agarthan body swapping, I’m leaning towards the idea that there is some component regarding Zaharas, as when Solon and Thales shapeshift, the purple void around them seems similar to the Zaharas spell.
Regarding the Merceus thing, I think the goal was to wipe out the entire resistance and/or alliance army in one single strike. The death knight warning them ruined it
As for the god shattering star lyrics, one theory I heard from a friend of mine is that Nemesis fights for a might makes right belief system. The freedom he fights for is a freedom to do what ever you see fit, to rebel against ANYTHING that tries to control you, to seek absolute freedom to do whatever you wish, to assert your will over the world and over others.
(To quote:
In the name of rebellion.
Let your bodies tremble.
Let your souls do as they wish.)
I’d also like to point out Epimenides’ comment about being an “an ordinary man who vowed to kill the beast which set the earth ablaze.” The ordinary man part makes me think that whatever triggered the war between Sothis and the Agarthans, the average agarthan at the time didn’t know what caused it. I’m partial to the notion Agartha started it, so perhaps the ruling echelons of the Agarthans did some heinous thing (the Romance of the World’s Perdition; an agarthan text, outright states they were committing atrocities) that led to Sothis attacking back. The text has so much going on that I’m gonna just analyze the whole thing:
Romance of the World's Perdition
"In the land of Thinis, where the old gods are said to live, the False God has awakened. Its looming, heteromorphic vessel was ressurected to sink the world to the depths of the ocean. It will bring extinction to all children of men, and salvation to all beasts of the land, sky and sea. For the children of men who spilled too much of the blood of life, it promises only cruel retribution.
The False God must be defeated before the world sinks into a watery grave. To this end, the children of men have erected pillars of light upon the land. Thinis, Malum, Septen and Llium were utterly destroyed. Those lands have vanished from this world. Yet even still, the False God stands. And soon, a flood aptly named Despair will drown this world.
The children of men fled to the depths of the earth, beyond the sight of the False God, beyond the entrance of the sacred sun, and beyond the reach of the water of Despair. They swore a fervent oath of revenge against the surface world, ruled by beasts, and against their tormentor, the False God."
So, the land of Thinis being where Sothis arose, The Church of Seiros holds that Sothis came from “the blue sea star” and they go on to state that Thinis was destroyed. If you subscribe to the theory that Sothis came from Zaharas, then it could explain why there was Agarthan tech there. The Agarthans colonized Zaharas, and when the war started, they scorched earthed it. They also state Sothis has a heteromorphic form, so Sothis also likely has a dragon form. They then state that that there will be salvation to the beasts of the earth sea and sky, which leads me to believe that the Agarthans might have been killing every wild animal alive… The Children of Men spilling too much of the blood of life also shows that agarthan society was fucked up, and they also recognize it in themselves, yet don’t care (as opposed to doing atrocities while thinking you’re in the right when you do them like the other factions). The sinking the world into the depths of the ocean is usually used as a point by people who believe in the theory the world of Fodlan is irl earth in the far future, and Fodlan is supposed to be irl Europe after much of it was sunk and twisted (Brigid being Iberia after much of it was sank and western Adrestia being France, or well, the north that remains, etc). But that theory is fucking insane.
The erecting of pillars of light is likely a reference to the Ballistic Missiles, but I have heard arguments that they are more so agarthan citadels that held out against Sothis. In all likelihood, they were the missiles though, as it lists places that were destroyed, likely by the missiles (although it could be a list of agarthan strongholds that were destroyed).
I’d also like to note the vagueness of the term beast. While they use it for creations of Sothis, Epimenides uses it for Sothis (and the nabateans) only (and nemesis too, but that’s entirely understandable). It could be that whatever theoretical coup that saw Thales take the reigns was somewhat religious. Perhaps Thales and Solon lead a faction that thought what constituted a beast of Sothis was simply being created by Sothis, instead of being a dual formed humanoid and dragon species like Sothis and the Nabateans, although, they could have based this on how crestless humans respond to crest stones. Regardless, perhaps Thales and Solon got support on Epimenides being too kinda to regular humans. The rest of the document is rather self explanatory. Although Sothis rising from the same place the old gods came from makes me wonder if there were more of her kind. Perhaps the Agarthans murdered their gods (hence why they’re considered “old”), and these gods were of the same kinda as the Nabateans; and they based their immortality core things on crest stones.
There is also the whole thing about Shez’ adoptive mother. She is a strangely literate woman in an isolated village in bumbfuck nowhere Leicester. It’s possible she was an agarthan deserter of some sort. Perhaps if Thales launched a coup against Epimenides, one that saw Epimenides having to go into hiding, they would have a small line of Agarthans keeping the core of their savior safe.
Also, male Shez is an infinitely superior design to female Shez.
I’ve been typing this for way too long so I’m gonna post this and add more in the replies later, along side some random ass lore factoids (although perhaps I should save that for the finale of this Fodlan faction over view series)
Loved reading all of this, and its fascinating. Makes me wonder about the origins of Epimenides, since he appears to be the origin of the housing of souls that is so essential to the Agarthans now. Furthermore, its begs several questions surrounding his core being lost and who Shez's mother was. Considering she died just before Shez left home, some part of me wonders if she also housed Epimenides' core at one point but that's probably not the case.
@@TheHearthGuy Oh, and as a side note, there is a theory that the salvation for the beasts of the earth, sea, and sky is not merely Sothis saving the lives of wild life but something more.
Basically, the theory goes that the demonic beasts we see some humans become is actually the natural form of humanity, and that Sothis gave them mortal forms in order to bring sanity to the land.
Thus, in the Agarthans eyes, humans are mere beasts, demonic ones at that.
I mean, the Nabateans, creations of the goddess have two forms. Why not the same for humans?
@@scion513 Huh, that's an interesting theory. Although it makes me wonder why it'd take contact with a crest stone to trigger that, and what that implies with Maurice and his descendants.
Regarding the Agarthan cores and all that, I did research into the magic circles a few years ago. I might have forgotten a bunch of stuff, but here are the salient points:
The standard magic circle for White and Black Magic looks a lot like a human transmutation circle, which gives a hint on how Sothis created her children, and how she either created or modified the humans living on the surface.
The standard magic circles feature English in the outer circle, a text that acknowledges Sothis' authority as a goddess and protector of Fodlan as well as all living things. There are a variety of alchemical and astrological symbols, such as the symbol for Jupiter. Futrthermore, there is Hewbrew in latin letters. Specifically, they are (in no particular order) Kether, Binah, Tipareth, Netzach, Yesod, and Gevurah. These are six of the ten sephirpoth of the Tree of Life. Black and White Magic are sephirothic in nature.
There's also some cuneform script in the circle, but I have not been able to determine the language used since there are symbols from different languages using cuneiform, such as Summerian, Akkadian and Ugaritic.
Conversely, Dark Magic features Greek letterings, and a very interesting eye symbol at the centre. It bears a striking resemblance to the symbol of Thaumiel, the qliphothic counterpart to Kether. I postulate that Agarthan magic on the whole is qliphothic.
Regarding Sothis and her origins: Iirc, Thinis is the place where she and the old gods come from. Thinis is where the first Egyptian Dynasty of Pharaos came to be, and Sothis is just the Greek name of the Egyptian goddess Sopdet.
@@scion513 So like in SukaSuka(WorldEnd: What do you do at the end of the world?) where the humans were beasts made men.
god why did you have to remind me that we dont fight fallen edelgard in 3 hopes. it would have been so cool
lmao "Discount Grimleal" that's not a good place to be
They who Juju on that Beat
They who tap dance down the alleyway.
I hate that we never got DLC for 3 hopes to fix the story.
It's super fishy considering how much KT loves DLC. You could tell me it didn't happen because IS & KT still have plans for Fodlan in the near future and I would 100% believe you.
@@Dakress23 Looking at Hyrule Warriors for precedent, a Three Hopes: Definitive Edition with such a DLC releasing in the Switch 2's first year would not surprise me in the least.
Epimenedes was such wasted potential. It's so frustrating that you don't even get to meet him unless you go out of your way to let Byleth live and then recruit them, and THEN you get one semi-decent conversation where he shows more nuance and personality than any of the other Dubsteppers have in the whole series, and *THEN* you have to kill him! The person who seems like the Dubstepper you'd most likely be able to reason with!
Arrrrrrrrrrrrgh this is why I want to write fanfic for a game that makes me batshit frustrated, because there is SO MUCH LOST POTENTIAL AND IT MAKES ME CRAZY!
Then write that damn fanfic! Nothing stops you from doing it!
@@flamaniax5728 Nothing except ADHD paralysis, a waist high TBR pile, the multitude of other fanfics I want to write... XD
Epimenideez Nuts
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My biggest problem with Agarthans is that they're only here to just be the objective evil: there's no nuance for real motivation to give a darn about them.
Even destroying them isn't satisfying
Objective evil can be a good thing. Aku from Samurai Jack is a good example.
@@mray4784the thing is Aku is objectively evil, but he's also funny and even pretty likable.
Those Who Lurk In The Discord, however, aren't comical, the majority of them are complete murderous psychopaths for next to no reason and ALL of their evil acts are meant to be taken seriously.
The Agarthans are why I'm conflicted about there being no Golden Route in Three Houses/Hopes personally. Because yes, I agree that it would ruin the whole point of war not being a clean and good thing in any context and there being no good and evil in one as much as there is just different sides and viewpoints and such, but the way the Agarthans are presented in the game already ruins that anyways. Even without how comically evil and inept they are in the game they're still very much the pure evil villain that when taken out could pave the path for peace, but if they were as competent as they are in lore I could at least believe that they'd never put themselves in a position where their machinations are revealed enough to expose them. But no, they're comically inept and obvious in every route of both games, so it begs the question of why there isn't an option to broker a peace between the nations either as a method to take the agarthans out or after killing the lot of them. Like the whole point of the game is about how regardless of the good intentions of the characters, their differing loyalties and levels of knowledge make conflict inevitable whether or not they want it, and that there isnt a simple bad guy that can be killed to end all conflict, and then you've got Thales over here basically waving around a sign that says "pure evil character and source of all of the bullshit and trauma" for anyone to see. I like the idea that there isn't a simple solution, but you cant do that and then *give us a simple solution*.
Crazy part is, Three Hopes had all the makings of having a golden route under the guise of it being a what-if game, literally the bonus chapter of fighting Epimenedes with the three lords and the MC could’ve been the beginning of the golden route, you already had to jump through a few hopes to get said battle, but nah, the battle ends, and they all just kinda forget that battle even happened??????
I get why the Nabateans and Agarthans are left somewhat mysterious, but I don't think it's especially worth it unless they plan to revisit the setting extensively in the future. What we're left with as a result of most of their lore is a justification for the more technologically advanced aesthetic of the Agarthans and the inclusion of electronic elements in the otherwise orchestral OST, which are obviously unusual additions to a Fire Emblem game. The big reveal of Shambhala is itself compelling, but they missed an opportunity to go further with this twist and use it to its full extent.
I think it would have been most worthwhile if both sides of these ancient precursors were more fleshed out and both had legitimate grievances with the other's genuine moral failings, rather than the Nabateans seeming so perfectly innocent besides the fact Rhea is losing her shit, while the Agarthans are basically just massive dicks. I mean, when has a dramatically more advanced people outright colonizing the territory of another _ever_ gone totally smoothly?
In a real sense, Medeus and the Manakete from FE1/3 and the Loptyrian Cult from FE4/5, much earlier titles in the series, were portrayed more sympathetically than the Agarthans, as they were the victims of genuine persecution which simply perpetuated the cycle of violence plaguing those continents. The Loptyrian Cult in particular seems to have inspired the Agarthans, given their people hid underground for decades before beginning to insinuate themselves in courts across Jugdral, motivated not simply by their people's prosperity, but revenge against the surface-dwellers for their exile.
Although the Loptyrians brought this fate upon themselves by following an evil god (for the sake of power and relative security during the reign of its vessel), it's shown that their punishment even extended to their descendants, innocent children suffering for the sins of their ancestors. This dehumanizing treatment led them to dehumanize their oppressors in turn, so they turned to zealotry, despising the surface-dwellers and praying for Loptyr's return as their salvation.
Loptyr himself is essentially an embodiment of this desire for vengeance, given his own misanthropy stemmed from humanity's elimination of his fellow earth dragons - a fate which, granted, they _also_ brought upon themselves by arrogantly refusing to give up the power of their draconic forms. (On a meta level, Loptyr is basically a symbol of the underlying evils of human nature which drive conflict and warfare between people, and accomplishes it better than Medeus of FE1/3, who is at his best when portrayed as having reached the end of his rope after going above and beyond to accommodate a better world for everyone just to be continuously kicked in the balls for it.)
So one of the big problems with the Agarthans is how they're so cool in concept and superficially seem rather unique, but in terms of depth and execution, they're not actually a step beyond ideas that came before them. And I kind of get _why_ the Agarthans are made out to be so reprehensibly evil, too; the writers wanted a faction that was clearly in the wrong directing Fódlan towards ruin so that the main four factions could have serious moral failings (and thus their leaders would have to make difficult ethical choices or have their moral limits tested) while still seeming fundamentally decent, totally salvageable, and worthy of that salvation.
But I just don't see why, when the writers were so concerned with the complexity of the playable faction's motivations, they couldn't have extended this concern to the ultimate antagonists of the setting. Wouldn't that have been more thematically coherent, that the Agarthans have good reasons to go as far as they do, that they're actually an extremely close-knit society with their own cultural values and ideas about what's righteous?
What if, even if they looked down on the surface-dwellers for their craven deference towards Seiros and saw them as expendable in the course of attaining a better future for humanity, the Agarthans didn't think of the surface-dwellers as "beasts" as bad as the dragons they so detest, but as their oppressed, exploited, and deceived kin, ignorant of their enslavement? What if they actually saw everything they did as an attempt to liberate humanity from beneath the talons of the tyrannical Nabateans, who they're indoctrinated to believe are demons who came from the celestial void to dominate them?
And why not reveal a little more about the Nabatean's home planet and thus their state of mind when they came to this other world? Why not make it a tragedy where Sothis (and perhaps a few others) were escaping the death of their world, its ecological and societal collapse, which would make their feelings all the more poignant? They come to this world only wanting to live in peace and are at first welcomed with open arms, but their very presence leads to ever-escalating conflict due to the power and advancement they represent, which was never their intention.
The Nabateans are at once frustrated by the potential for greed and cruelty and ignorance of the savage natives, but must grapple with the quandary of the fact that, even if they try to control the situation, they're the ones trespassing on a world that's not their own, and the situation spiraling out of control is ultimately their fault and responsibility. They never wished to cause this pain, they've already lost so much, so why does disaster and anguish follow in their wake even now?
They focus the lion’s share of the blame on human nature, clinging to a sense of superiority, arrogantly seeing humans as lesser beings prone to corruption and violence - if the human heart weren't so vicious, none of these problems would have happened. They _need_ to be controlled for the good of themselves and the Nabateans. So the Nabateans play at being gods, guiding humanity into prosperity, but also controlling and constraining their servants while protecting themselves and their welfare.
In at first subtle and then in increasingly overt and decadent ways, the Nabateans place themselves above humans and prioritize their own luxury over the "lesser beings" that serve them - comforts they’ve earned for enduring all they’ve suffered and bringing prosperity to the savage natives. Even those once-savages, now their avid worshippers, agree, so there's no problems, right? They paint this as a golden age and the rebels who would become the Agarthans as driven purely by ambition, greed, and spite, because that's just human nature, no?
But even some among their number start having doubts, realizing that they’re blinding themselves to the truth of the situation, that they’re abusing their power. It's easy to imagine Seiros was originally in the camp that felt this way just for extra dramatic irony, and the echoes of her genuine concern for humanity's wellbeing informs how she wields the Church of Seiros to maintain stability later.
The Agarthans, meanwhile, are forced to retreat underground and realize there’s no way they can strike against the godlike power of the Nabateans, let alone oppose it openly, without finding a way to match it. Cue millennia of subterfuge, the assassination of Sothis at the hands of Nemesis, etc. They see no other way to usurp and expel the Nabateans and reclaim humanity’s birthright. They dream of an age where humanity is finally the master of its own destiny once more.
But because of their immense technological superiority and because they’re constantly duping gullible, ignorant surface-dwellers in their shadow war against the Nabateans, the Agarthans come to see the surface-dwellers as pitiful creatures in desperate need of the liberation they offer. Just like how the Nabateans, because of their immense technological superiority and how they duped the gullible native savages into worshiping them as gods, came to see humanity as their inferiors who they needed to save from themselves. The Agarthans twist themselves into a reflection of the very enemy they strove to defeat for the sake of humanity’s liberation in the first place.
With the death of her mother and desecration of her corpse, Seiros sees that her people were right to think it was necessary to control and regulate humanity to the fullest extent possible. Hence, she establishes the contemporary shape of Fódlan’s society, her maternal concern for the humans around her tainted by an ambivalent mixture of a sense of responsibility for her people’s impact on them with a tinge of chauvinism born of her rage and despair at her mother’s death. Seiros is, after all, the "Immaculate One" - utterly faultless. That's the real lie that Seiros tells herself - that the Nabateans are fundamentally innocent, pure, and free of all blame.
So you have two sides directing the course of Fódlan’s history with their own legitimate and understandable ideological beliefs, both scarred by the tragedies they've endured. Isn’t that way more interesting and a far stronger culmination of the themes - the complications of class division, racial prejudice, propagandistic manipulation of history, and the cycle of vengeance - which compose Three Houses? It even makes the role that Flayn and Seteth play, how they've come to find happiness just living among humans as equals, all the more impactful.
The building blocks of these ideas are *definitely* already present in Three Houses and Three Hopes, but they're very much unexplored or discarded in favor of a far simpler, less satisfying direction. You can hypothetically read the above into what's really going on in Fódlan, but the Agarthans are so cartoonishly evil in their presentation that it destabilizes a more charitable outlook.
That sounds amazing but unfortunately I do not think it will ever be in a game for FE or any future installations of 3 Houses.
But it would have been epic if they did!
Damn, keep cooking because this explanation is awesome and is definitely a game I'd like to play.
First they came for the Adrestian Empire and I did not speak out, because I am not an Adrestian.
Then they came for the Kingdom of Faerghus and I did not speak out, because I am not from Faerghus.
Then they came for the Leicester Alliance and I did not speak out, because I am not from the Alliance.
Then they came for the Church and I did not speak out, because I am not religious.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.
“Thou who maneuvers in the shade”
Yeah whoever wrote the Hopes story didn't really think anything through.
15:02 My boi Dimitri tanking hits and dishing out hits like a boss.
The biggest sin of Three Hopes was the mischaracterisation of Sothis as compared to Three Houses. The second-biggest was the writing of Bernadetta's father.
I say the biggest sin of that shit is it's mere exitence and being escentially an Edelgard feet licker sim.
@@blazeman2419as a Faerghead and blue lions enjoyer, I’d say it’s pretty balanced with its approach.
@@scion513as a Lionchad i kind of don't. I wanted Dimitri to win with no asterisks. And Babygard is the biggest asterisk possible
@@elevate07oh yeah. Azure gleam part 2 sucks
Although Azure Gleam part 1 is literally the best part of the entire game.
@@elevate07 AG1 > GW2 > GW1 > SB2 > SB1 > AG2 is the general ranking for my friends. Massive gaps in quality between SB1 and AG2.
“SB is docked points for being almost completely predictable, being a by-the-numbers run of the campaign, AG1 is elevated by its world-story synergy that makes it more solid than the twisty but somewhat inconsistent GW, and AG2 is trash”
Xenoblade Chronicles - please cover the worlds and history of the Xenoblade Chronicles settings - Alrest, Bionis, Mechonis, and Aionios. I'd love to hear your input
based
Being honest, I really liked epimenides as a leader of the agarthans. Like, he is part of the problem, but honestly, he is a lot more compelling than the others. Kronya is literally a bloodthirsty assassin who didn't even matter all that much in the grand scheme of things, Thales is surprisingly bland for a leader, Solon is smart only when the game allows it, and then he becomes incredibly dumb, Cleobulus only saving grace is the tragedy of Duscur, and Myson is so unremarkable that he doesn't even get a special sprite. Meanwhile, Epimenides created a safeguard for his people that could've allowed them to be a thorn on the side of Fodlan for generations, cared for his people and actually saw what they did as necessary, even if he found it distasteful many of Thales actions, cared for Arval enough to feel bad for taking his autonomy away, even though Arval was willing. Epimenides actually feels like the hero of his people, a charismatic and pragmatic leader who probably started everything. Also, he felt like he was making Fodlan a favour by removing the Nabateans from power (I wonder if in a different situation Edelgard and Epimenides might have actually agreed, and that duo might have been one of the greatest forces to contend for Fodlan.)
imo the worst thing about those with an overly complicated name is that they erase any sort of moral complexity in the story. It's hard to engage with the whole morally grey conflict the game is going for when so many things in the story are the result of cartoonishly evil mole people controlling the world from the shadows.
Take the Tragedy of Duscur. If this was just the action of a group of nobles from the kingdom, there could be a lot of reasons for why it happened, and it would build some character for both the nobles and the kingdom. Maybe some nobles thought that Lambert was getting to authoritarian, maybe some wanted to expand their holdings at the expense of the king and Duscur, maybe some of them thought the reforms would harm the kingdom and didn't think it'd result in a genocide, maybe some of them were racists. But the moment you say "oh actually they only did it because of the evil mole people" you kill any sort of nuance.
When it comes to the Church? It makes sense why people doesn't like them for legitimate reasons - as under Rhea they became more and more out of touch with the damage their beliefs were inflicting on the world around them. Most of which was caused by pure negligence rather than malicious intent - up until someone like Edelgard gets to pissed-off to keep their grievances to themselves and/or chooses to rebel instead of petitioning their complains diplomatically.
As when it comes to the Agarthans? No redeeming qualities about them. They're cartoonishly evil for the sake of evil.
Revenge tends to do that to people
The night club enthusiasts
Minir correction, Shambala is in Hrym, empire terriitory albeit one that Borders Allaince territory, The allianc eis actually the least involved with the Agarthans asdie from Lysithea but thats because she lived right next to Hrym, and Claudes uncles death
If you’re up for suggestions I’d love a few videos formatted like this for the different territories in Triangle Strategy!
(Also great work with this Fodlan series of videos, they’ve been a delight to watch)
That actually sounds like a pretty fun idea. I'll think about it.
@@TheHearthGuy That’d be amazing. I’d be so down to a watch some Triangle Strategy videos.
Speaking of absolute screwed continents
Thales bombing a fortress in response of Edelgard killing Cordelia could just be him firing a warning shot, telling her he can do this to the whole empire if he wishes.
He probably didn’t expect for Hilbert to just wait for shit like that to locate Shambala.
I recently discovered your channel and just wanted to say the way you speak and structure your videos reminds of Plague of Gripes
"There is no escape from the fortress of the moles"
(Big dragon shows up)
"Oh, except that"
doesnt solon say when byleth comes back fro the darkness, "But the only other person to withstand the darkness is...". At least solon didn't forget his fellow friend, and they really hinted a game from this huh
I would love to see a character analysis of Claude from both three houses and three hops
Thank you for this fuel for my writing.
Take my sub.
This series has been great! And I'm looking forward to any further 3H content you make, be that route re-writes or an analysis of the non-Fodlán countries.
It's inspiring. I wrote some fanfiction back in the day where I tried to reforge the story myself, but it always fell apart by the time the war phase came around, because there were so many moving parts to account for.
I might go pick that up again.
Those Who Should’ve Waited for Empimenides were the last of the Agarthans…and certainly not the brightest ones. If Thales was the one who got rid of Empimenides then it could be possible he sacrificed those most loyal to him given his blatant disregard for sacrificing his own people for their goals. With some straggler like Shez’s adoptive mother who is implied to maybe have planted Arval in them. Given Arval’s memories of a flood I think either Thales sabotaged where his tank was or an unlikelier possibility lost during a battle with Indech during the war. But I wouldn’t be surprised if Thales was willing to sacrifice some of Nemisis’s men to wipe the board clean for his take over.
Given how everything for the Agarthan’s fell apart at the time where everything was lining up Thales practically doomed the rest of them for his ambitions, impatience, disdane for non-Agarthans, and desire for the surface light. Even on the routes they weren’t completely wiped out, it seems like what little that remain under Cleobulus will probably wait years for another opportunity to start over again.
Though it can’t be said that there are probably a few smart enough to live in secret in Fodlan away from the rest of their kind. Given Solon’s belief that Shez actually could be an Agarthan from Shambala and how they were born in Ordelia territory probably means more than a few escaped from Shambala in the past to live on the surface world.
Anyway those are just my thoughts.
But it seems like a video about the wider world around Fodlan is in the works. Was hoping for video on like the crested wildlife on the continent or the Crest Beasts, but that can probably wait for another time. Can’t wait to see how this next one will turn out.
The romance of the world’s perdition does mention something about “the false god” (Sothis) bringing a flood “aptly named Despair” to drown the world.
Honestly, Elusia in Engage is kinda Agartha done right: a country of mages that have been alienated from the other countries, are plotting their revenge against a draconic god and are led by warlords using magic who care about their people. The main difference is that some of those guys join the heroes and you get to help them take back their country. Yes, Elusia is flawed, but same goes for the other nations. And Hyacinth is a step up from Validar or Thales as a religion head opposing a dragon god.
Same goes for Gradlon in the same game. Its royalty is made of the descendants of a clan of dark mages that have been decimated and Sombron seeks revenge, while his children have been rejected by society and don't enjoy causing destruction, but have no choice. Again, there is an emphasis on the tragedy of their lives and some of them join the party.
Say what you want about Engage, but Elusia and Gradlon have redeemed the archetype of the tragic dark mages clan to some extent to me.
And Elusia's antagonistic relationship with the rest of the Kingdoms makes sense in a way given how Brodia, one of their neighbours, has been using Elusia as target practice for non-stop wars of expansion for who knows how long. Wars which the other Kingdoms did next to nothing to help end and prevent. Thus leaving Elusia by itself as the black sheep of the contienent in FE: Engage.
Wasn't Gradlon subjugated by Sombron (who brought his issues to this world)? Who then proceeds to (try to) conquer the world to get the emblems. The other fell dragons have a tragic backstory‚ I'll give you that.
Yes even though Elusia's motivations make no sense because they're worshiping the evil God that will destroy the world and he says that openly and repeatedly... I can tell you what their motivations are. What are the motivations of the slithers? They don't want to take over the world because they have an influenced every government to surrender to them by infiltrating high offices. They don't want to destroy the church because they didn't burn it down after they won the war. They don't want to kill off humanity because they didn't do that. They don't even want to establish their own above ground state because they don't do that either
Are you kidding me? There is 0 depth to Engage's continent.
Why does Sombron have human followers? What has he done to earn their favor? Grima at the very least had a religion(more like a cult) for followers, to easily take advantage of them. There's the whole Dragon's Table event where Validar and Aversa lure the Grimleal to the Dragon's Table as sacrifices. Hyacinth doesn't do ANYTHING like that.
WHY are Brodia and Elusia fighting? Alcryst's explanation makes Brodia sound like the agressor more than anything. WHAT has Elusia done to alienate themselves from the other nations besides being the obligatory worships the final boss nation?
Everything else was just tell, don't show. I don't care about these theoretical people that we never see even a lick of their suffering to know what happened.
You're looking FAR too deeply into what's essentially a puddle.
The whole Nabataean vs Agarthan war feels like that Scouring but minus the part where everyone in Elibe just forgot why the war started thus making the Eight Legends a bit more justified in their actions and anti-Dragon beliefs where as the reasons the Agarthans started the war is just left unexplained. You COULD see them as justified but its more likely they got huge egos and merc'd a peaceful race who was nothing but kind to them, all while several characters still exist who should remember why the war started and all but one of them is clearly an evil race supremacist.
Honestly I have been looking forward to your uploads and has kept me thinking about it even during some personal not-so-great times. Thanks for sharing an interest and being amazing
It’s true that the Agarthans are the weakest part of Three Houses, along with Silver Snow. But I’ve always viewed their presence in the story in a more symbolic sense. Not necessarily for what they are, but what they represent: an embodiment of humanity’s worst traits. The Agarthans are full of hubris and are blatantly racist, they dismiss the value of others around them, including each other. They refuse to take responsibility for their atrocities, and are willing to sink to any low if it means winning this petty war of supremacy. And if they’re in a situation where it’s clear victory is no longer possible, they resort to simply taking as many enemies down with them as possible.
How many real world conflicts and cruelty have stained the pages of history because of traits like this? This all-consuming egoism, this “the ends justify the means” mentality? Because I’ll tell you, it’s way too many. But I suppose I’m hardly impartial here, given I’m a self-identifying misanthrope. History is cyclical, and doomed to repeat itself endlessly, and the Agarthans are a symbol of why that is: selfishness, entitlement, lust for power, etc.
Again, these guys are blatantly fascistic, so of course their delusionally supremacist attitudes echo in history. I mean, just listen to them, especially Epimenides, talk and you basically have yourself an esoteric Nazi or Duginist.
In that regard, I think their writing is actually pretty great.
Those Who Dubstep in the Dank.
To this day, I still wonder what a _"Criminal Scum From The Basement"_ (Ashen Wolves-focused) main house route, *outside* of the Cindered Shadows DLC side-story, would've been like... AND how the TWSITD would've fit into the narrative there.
This video my made me consider things I somehow didn't question before. Why DID they reveal themselves for no reason??? I didnt think about it before because they are so obviously act 1 bad guys. Btw, why didn't they just nuke everyone after they captured Rhea? Even if they didnt know Seteth and Flayn could no longer transform, a handful of dragons couldn't stop a barrage of nukes. If they didn't want the entire world destroyed they could've just launched a few ang threatened everyone else into compliance.
Why not? These guys aren't fully rational actors, and they probably also viewed Byleth as enough of a threat and a fragment of Sothis to eliminate with extreme prejudice.
how can Solon have such a huge cranium and be SO peabrained???
The whole Nukes & Ancient Tech thing was easily my least favourite part of Three Houses's otherwise solid worldbuilding.
Tbf I think they are still using Lysethia as a test subject by letting her live. Mainly to see if it only works for x amount of time before they need to do further changes on people they actually want to live (i.e. their own people/future pawns they need to keep alive). I mean they probably would reconsider/keep experimenting if Lysethia died within a year or less.
This is a really great video I tend to side more head canon-y when it comes to Nemesis just because I could see his side a little bit more as a potentially problematic hero of people who are being colonized I 100% do not side with the church of Seiros.
I do believe that they are shady to say the least.
I also think that your point about the hidden member of the Agarthans is really Illuminating I never played three hopes of wasn't my cup of tea but from what you discussed about it narratively it sounds a lot more interesting than what they ended up doing with three houses but that's it I did really enjoy three houses
Ever thought of looking into other Fire Emblem games and their lore like Archaea especially genealogy
Honestly, when I saw Myson at the end of AM, I had no idea who he was or why he was there, killed him fairly easily.
A common issue with the Agarthans I hear people complain about is that they destroy the moral grayness of the story by creating a pure evil faction that’s behind all of fodlan’s problems, which if everyone could just band together against, everything could be fixed and no war would be needed.
However, this is a misunderstanding of the effect the Agarthans have on Fodlan.
Yes; they did cause the creation of the crest system by granting nemesis and his followers crests, as well as the ensuing feudal system. Yes, they did cause the genocide of the Nabateans, the tragedy of Duscur, the death of Edelgard’s family, and countless other issues.
However, one thing people tend to miss is that they always have help with regular humans. While nemesis is sort of an exception because his entire thing was dependent on agarthan aid to get the crests and relics, all the other problems had direct support from powerful individuals in Fodlan. The insurrection of the seven was supported by the Adrestian nobility. The Tragedy of Duscur has the western nobles involved. The splitting of the kingdom form the empire seems to have been based around legitimate issues faerghus had with the empire (we see the imperial nobility using northern “swordsmen” [gladiators in Japanese] as entertainment in a book from the shadow library, meaning they were used for blood sport).
Even with the crest system, simply killing the Agarthans doesn’t actually fix anything. The Agarthans wounded Fodlan, and these wounds were left to fester and rot. The problems the Agarthans caused have grown in scope beyond the Agarthans themselves.
Sure, you can get rid of them and stop them from making more problems; but that won’t fix the issues they already caused. Moreover, the ultimate issue, the main conflict, is over how these changes should be done, rapidly with the dangers that come with revolution, or slowly with a firm basis that leaves no one behind, or focusing more on opening up to the rest of the world.
Another thing is that Dimitri, Edelgard, Claude, and the others don’t have absolute control over their nations. Even edelgard has to appease her nobles from time to time. There are so many other powerful individuals out there that force these characters to take approaches that put each other in conflict. The biggest of course being the kingdom requiring the church’s constant approval to even exist. But there are also many powerful nobles who all have armies of their own; people of their own.
Ultimately, the problems caused by the Agarthans have outgrown them, become an issue of their own separate from them, so that simply removing the Agarthans fixes little.
Ur beating the Slithers sympathizer allegations
On Cornelia / Cleobulus: I don't think that there's much evidence to her being a man except an error in translation: there is one exchange in which she is referred to as "he" in English while the original scene in Japanese does not mention gender.
The original has Arundel say "Tell Cleobulus this: "Don't rush. I don't mind if you hide"". I think this single mistake actually made a lot of people think that Cleobulus is a man?
My personal theory is that the translators heard the name "Cleobulus" and thought that this is a masculine name (hence the -us at the end), but there's nothing in the original to imply that Cleobulus is not a woman. Maybe I'm mistaken though but I'm pretty sure that this is just a localisation mistake as there's nothing else in the game to imply Cornelia is a man.
Just reading the thumbnail/title and thinking “Isn’t that the point?”
Well I have some thoughts and while I agree with most of the points raised I feel like playing Devil’s Advocate for a bit.
With the case of Monica in Hopes it seems that they held onto her not for no reason but they hadn’t had Kronya take her place yet. I suspect that their body snatching trick involves some kind of ritual that requires the person being kidnapped to be sacrificed, like a copy imprinted onto the Agarthan specifically so they can take that shape when necessary.
And I say when necessary because they clearly loathe doing it, considering their hatred of anyone other than them wearing their appearance even if it’s only an illusion is likely grating in the extreme. It’s telling that only Solon, arguably the most cunning and patient of the Agarthans seen, is the only one to have bothered to learn his target’s mannerisms to impersonate him, the rest seem to have considered it beneath them and/or sufficient enough to fool the vermin/beasts they see humanity as.
As for Thales ill-suiting bombings of Arianrhod and Fort Merceus in different routes they were indeed brash and risky moves to make, but considering his arrogance I wouldn’t put it past him to try it given the circumstances.
In the case of Arianrhod it was a punitive measure, while there’s no love lost between him and Cleobulus, it’s likely he knows Edelgard did it either to spite him or start culling his numbers early and reacted as either an effort to intimidate her (i.e toe the line or the next time you attack us I will throw it at you or one of your cities) or as a calculated attempt to do the same to Edelgard that wasn’t as successful as he had hoped.
Keeping in mind that both Thales and Edelgard plan to betray one another once the war is out of the picture and expect each other to do so, while they do need one another they aren’t above taking measures to whittle each other down when they think they can spare it.
In the case of Fort Merceus it’s a bit murkier but I think it’s largely to the same point. In levelling Fort Merceus he hoped to inflict severe casualties on the Alliance forces (which he would have had Jeritza not warned them in his own cryptic way) as well as depriving Edelgard of the most viable fortress/staging point between Enbarr and Shambhala with the plausible deniability of sacrificing an already lost fort to gut the enemy army.
This is just speculation but I think given the nature of Thales and Edelgard’s mutually destructive alliance that each one is taking potshots to ‘accidentally’ catch one another in the crossfire.
As to why he doesn’t just use them with impunity I can again only speculate but perhaps this was something he had less control over. We don’t know the limits of these missiles, how many of them they have, if they can create more, what risk they carry when used etc so I assume that something as powerful as this is in short supply, with only his last stand in Verdant Wind being when Thales decides ‘Fuck it’ and uses them with impunity in his clearly suicidal last ditch effort.
The only other times he uses then is in situations where he could potentially deal a crippling blow to his enemies without and within and comes close to succeeding.
As for the risk of Hubert tracing the missiles I don’t think he anticipated that would or could happen, much less that Hubert would both willingly and successfully get that information to his enemies. Perhaps he thought that tracing the superior magitech of the Agarthans was beyond the capabilities of mere humans, nobody figured out the last time they fired them at Garreg Mach after all.
Personally while Thales’ track record isn’t particularly good, in theory his ploys are relatively sound. They just aren’t successful due to certain interventions that he cannot predict.
As for Nemesis and his undead army I conclude that the issue with using them is twofold.
First is the presented idea that they cannot be controlled, I do think that is the case since Nemesis physically broke out of his sealed coffin once he was awakened and for the most part the surviving Agarthans seem to be tagging along and reinforcing his army as auxiliaries rather than commanding it.
Doing so earlier would provoke a crisis of leadership which I doubt Thales would want in such a predicament. Nemesis would likely demand leadership and Thales cannot afford (and likely couldn’t be able to win) a struggle for leadership. Powerful Nemesis might be but tactful he is not, and at this point Thales is not looking for another contender and is instead falling back on the Agarthans fundamental asset, secrecy.
At this point he still think’s Shambhala is safe, hidden from his enemies and that lying low and acting opportunistically as they had before is the current port of call. Now is the time to regroup and start infiltrating again before attempting to decapitate the enemy.
Only he isn’t as safe as he would rightly suspect and is caught off guard with a direct assault on his stronghold.
Second is that unleashing Nemesis would likely also completely compromise Shambala’s secrecy.
Nemesis woke up and chose violence going on a warpath, people are going to notice an entire army walking about and that would definitely lead the Alliance and Church to trace them back to Shambhala, on the chance that Nemesis loses and takes the last cards Thales has to play with him I think that’s why Thales held off on resorting to that, with only the remnants of Shambhala turning to that option once all hope was lost.
I realise this was mostly defending Thales and his decisions but I think that keeping his character, motives and position in mind his actions make a certain amount of sense only with plot armour foiling him at the critical moments.
As for Hopes I also don’t think he blew himself up but that I suppose continues the trend of Edelgard’s routes having the most half-arsed endings either way.
As for Azure Gleam that one also smacks of unused ideas, ESPECIALLY that tease of Hegemon Edelgard but the armies at Aillel might have a justification if we consider expenditure. If we work on the educated assumption that the javelins of light are a scarce and valuable resource, then having three enemy armies tear chunks out of each other without needing to use them seems like a decent way to spare resources.
Sure they are probably going to be better off than if he nuked them, but they’ll still all be drastically weakened by the battle and with him leaving a few more missiles in his back pocket.
Considering that the Agarthans MO is to manipulate others into tearing each other apart for the last thousand years it makes sense as to why he would choose this more frugal method.
A similar justification serves as an in-universe reasoning for their lack of presence during Hopes, after being ousted by Edelgard they’ve slunk back into their habits, letting Edelgard start the war that will tear the continent apart and likely bring them an opportunity in all the chaos, once the forces have battered each other for the majority of the war is when they start making their play to prey on the exhausted Empire and Fòdlan as a whole.
As for why he just lets it devolve into a debauched ruin? Simply put Thales’ end goal is not to rule the people of Fòdlan, it’s to eradicate them so the Agarthans may retake it. (Very much Skaven Great Ascendency for mole people)
Preserving the society of Fòdlan is not his concern at this point, creating a proper polity to use as a pawn would be more resources and effort than sowing a mire of chaos that the current polity has to clean up before they can focus on him. Hindering their own efforts to set up an infrastructure that they can use to support themselves. Absent the control over the Empire he’s enjoyed until 2 years ago his next best option this close to his goals is to render it unusable.
At this point Duke Aegir is an expendable meat shield and Shambhala is still hidden so he’s again caught out as a lone agent trying to keep his resources in reserve so that he can still fall back on secrecy if things go south only he gets caught in said going south.
All that said his motives and character are basic. It’s clear that while he desires the resurgence of Agartha, it’s one that he leads. He’s clearly a megalomaniac in charge of a loose collection that only tenuously obey him.
Epimenides was in contrast a more decent person, less willing to use unsavoury methods and with a more genuine desire for the survival and revival of his home but that is perhaps the only real split in characterisation we get of the faction as a whole.
That said out of universe it’s more likely that 3 Hopes was just rather undercooked and fragmented. The pieces were good, I thought that Epimenides and Arval would finally gives some more dimensions to the Agarthans but it just seems to be cut short. Decent ideas but flailing execution.
Thales is flat as a character, he has a logic to his actions but little personality beyond establishing himself and the Agarthans as racial supremacists, connivers who manipulate others and doing extremely unethical experimentations to gain an advantage while Epimenides shows a glimpse of a more sympathetic cause that nevertheless is still willing to stoop low for their common good.
Overall I broadly agree in the Agarthans being a poorly realised creation with wasted potential. Great intrigue, themes and designs but cookie cutter depth, plot that is painfully short and a lot of speculative holes.
I thought the dude in the thumbnail was doing the (>.
I was literally on a forum earlier today where we discussed that for all the Agarthian potential, they feel like North Korean Government levels of evil and incompetence.
To add to Heart Guy's theory. It would not surprise if Thales Got rid of Epimendedies, to take over as a dictator, then degraded/rotted agarthian society to stagnant evil husk we see in the current setting in the games. Heck, a dictator erasing records/altering history of his predecessor is quite common and explains why so many Agarthians don't know about Epimendidies.
Yeah the agarthans pretty much destroyed any kind of moral grayness in this story NMO. By comparison, Garon and Anankos where at least sympathetic villains since Garon was screwed over by his wives and Anankos being a victim of Dragon degeneration and thus losing the trust of the people he help. Even the Dumites had more depth since they represent what happens when the pursuit of power goes wrong.
Solon exposing himself is super frustrating to because why doesn't Edelgard use this as proof to get help from Rhea, there were dozens of witnesses!
You mean in 3H, right? Cause she did go in 3Hopes.
The reason she couldn't in 3H is because of Kronya, who stuck to Edelgard like glue if you see the Explores.
Doesn't also help that the Flame Emperor is now perceived to be allies of Solon.
3Hopes already shows us that Rhea was not that willing to help with Edelgard until she and Hubert made a REALLY strong case. And even that ended with Rhea only wanting to do the bare minimum and laying down a threat of punishing her if she was even remotely wrong.
I certainly don't want to think how things would be if Edelgard came to Rhea in 3H with everything that's not stuck on her.
@@0axis771 then why doesn't she just point out how kronya is acting, the timing of her return and basically tell that the Agarthans have invaded the Empire. Hell if it's after jeralt death she could have used Byleth as an witness.
Then why doesn't Edelgard Ethier lie and said that she was forced by the Agarthans to do that or just come clean
The Church of Serios literally deals with crime like bandits and pirates and even help Slyvain get their lance back no questions but when it comes to empire all of sudden Rhea hesitates even though it would help relations with the Empire? That's stupid. On the hand, it actually shows Rhea in a no win scenario since if she helps Edelgard, she just gets back stabbed by her and if she refuses, Edelgard would be a cry bully and complain that church didn't help her and therefore corrupt.
@@MrSupersmash93 Are you joking right now?
I laterally explained how Rhea had all evidence and case given to her in 3Hopes and even THEN Rhea was unwilling to believe her or want to help her.
Do not compare this with Sylvain. Reminder that with Faerghus, Rhea was more than happy to send the rest of her knights in 3Hopes to directly aid in fighting Rufus, something she didn’t do with Edelgard. Rhea has a poor relationship with the Empire as opposed to the Kingdom and this very much proves it.
Edelgard telling anyone Kronya’s acting means nothing. They could explain it away easily. And how would she use Byleth either when he was depressed following Jeralt’s death?
3H makes it clear that Edelgard didn’t have any paths to come out with talking to anyone about TWSITD, something which haunts her clearly. 3Hopes makes it clear why she took the first chance to get rid of them because she saw an actual part open to her.
@@0axis771 dude fuck you, you one of those Edelgard did nothing wrong assholes
Wow this made me realize I probably never understood what Hopes was saying with cores or whatever… man I feel like Fodlan is pretty half baked, it’s saving grace imo are the interpersonal relationships between units
The main plot feels like missed opportunity after missed opportunity, over and over
I'm so lost... I've only played Edelgard's route and Claude's route. XD
i am happy you are growing as a channel, and earning money from them, keep like this!!!
for some ideas, you can do, the titans of Xenoblade 2 that have lot of lore and culture of the people that live on them
about previous fire emblem, like Shadow of Valentia, that even if simple, I find interesting how they put the type of mastermind villain Jedah, in aword that i can say how ignorance is deadly, and honestly it fit better than Agarthans, or the two main country in conflict, but maybe Archanea
or hyrule from zelda, that how they handle the kingdom during peace time
ye giving bad idea lol
could do Fates next... talk about Hoshido, Nohr, and Valla
If you want a well of content, how about the trails series? It’s basically the black gold of TH-cam content, hell one guy I know legit got 1000 subscribers from the first episode of a Trails of the sky play through, a tour of the lore and factions? You might as well print money.
Ooh! Talk about Bestelle!
I just found these videos and have loved this series so far. Obviously you should follow up with whatever you're passionate about, if that's Skyrim I'll love to listen. But if you are taking suggestions, I'd love to watch similar videos going into detail on the factions of this game's predecessor, Fire Emblem: Fates. I don't think it's a hot take that the factions in that game were not very well thought through, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on them nonetheless, as well as the factions of other Fire Emblem titles.
The Agarthans; Those who Kazotsky Kick in the local Hot Topic.
The funny thing about nemesis it's implied that his revival is part of the crest of flames and that he shows up in the epilogue of the other routes and is beaten....but this means that edidelgard also comes back
The agarthans as a whole are surprisingly reminiscent of loptians from fe4/5 especially in the sense that after the war they were all driven underground and hated which represents a similar issue with both games factions. They try and portray themselves as victims, oppressed people who deserve their home back. But they both literally murder children for it. They’re these comically evil beings that treat the Geneva Conventions as a checklist. None of them deserve pity or mercy but are depicted as sympathetic and deserving of pity for their struggles
Probably the worst aspect of FE3H and AM honestly feels better without their presence. Cornelia and Arundel are better personal stakes enemies to Dimitri anyway. We didn't truly care that Arundel is Thales. I would have preferred that the Agarthans were past history only, so the story could have focused more on the conflict between Edelgard vs the rest, instead of those who slither nonsensically as meh villains. Edelgard is a wonderful villain with sympathetic qualities. Agarthans are just clichés.
I'm dreadfully sorry you feel that way.
Fire emblem sort of has a villain problem in recent titles such as Awakening, Engage and worst of all, Fates. They just come off as one note assholes who want to rule the world. They’re just as one note and generic such as Corphyues from Dragon Age Inquisition, the Renan Lords of Tales of Arise, Gortash and Orin from Baldur’s Gate, the villains from Akame Ga Kill, the villains, except for Arima, from Tokyo Ghoul, the Order of the Ancients from both Assassin’s Creed Origins, Odyssey and Valhalla, the Templar Order from both Assassin’s Creed Unity and Syndicate and of course, the villains from Power Rangers Samurai, Megaforce and Ninja Steel.
And I just realized that Agarthans are just as stupid as Le Paradox from Sly Cooper Thieves in Time. Le Paradox just wants revenge because his family was overshadowed by the Cooper Clan, something that’s already done with Clockwerk. And the whole part of Le Paradox’s dad being overshadowed by Connor Cooper, Sly’s Dad, was something already done with Dr. M. Le Paradox doesn’t do anything while his gang does all of the hard work in stealing the canes from the Cooper Clan. Also, why does Le Paradox think that if he “stole the canes”, the Coopers would just give up thieving or be thrown in jail? Clockwerk already had a plan to defeat the Cooper Clan by stealing the pages from the Thievius Raccoonus which was the Cooper Clan’s thieving guide. And what’s worse is that Sly Cooper himself calls out Le Paradox for how stupid and nonsensical his plans was. Also, why would he need to establish a royal family for himself? That adds barely nothing but to stroke his own ego as he deludes himself as Thief King of the world.
Let’s talk about another villain who has the most nonsensical plan. Lex Luthor from Batman v Superman. First, he frames Superman for slaughtering an entire village even though the US Government was planning on blowing up the village. Then he pressures Batman into branding criminals who end up getting killed in Black Gate Prison, which makes no sense at all. All of this also Batman and Superman can kill each other. And in order to give Batman one final reason why he should kill Superman, Lex blows up Congress and frames Superman for the whole thing. In order to motivate Superman to fight Batman, Lex kidnaps both Marth and Lois. And if the fight ends with Superman winning, Lex decides to make Doomsday to kill Superman. All of this was because he’s mad at God for not doing anything to stop his dad from abusing him.
Sad part is, most people who play FE games could write a better villain in a day than the IS team has done in 10 years.
D
Having worked on an analysis about the slitherers a while ago, it struck me they have the dubious honor of being the only antagonistic faction in Fire Emblem *period* (as of this comment) which is framed as 100% unsympathetic.
This is very peculiar in retrospect as every other villain group period (even the Loptus Cult, surprisingly enough) either have some modicum of sympathetic qualities and/or even members who can defect to the player's side. The Agarthans meanwhile get none of that, and I can't help but wonder if the group being nothing but xenophobia and hubris given human flesh played a role in it…
Bgm has no right going so hard. Keep it up 👍
It's like the Ascians before shadowbringers.
i feel more sympathetic towards the agarthans than the houses, still upset theres no dlc to join them
It's like the people who wrote the lore for the Agarthans were an entirely separate team that didn't have any communication with the story writers. I want to love the faction, I *really* do, but they're a laughably bad group of antagonists in the story of Fodlan
The Sith knockoffs Agarthans are a detriment to Three Houses branching path storytelling with too many inconsistencies, making each path a jumbled mess. Frankly their too technological advanced for a medieval fantasy world. What's the point of fighting a centuries long shadow war and grooming Edelgard/Dimtri when you can casually nuke the surrounding civilizations and have Nemesis/his generals, and your horde of monsters/ magical golem mechs clean up the monastery during the fallout? This is a larger problem with the Fire Emblem series, in general, having cartoony villains, and after Sombron in Engage somehow being worse than Grima and even King Garon of all people, im getting tired of this trope.
Lucky for them edegard basically gave them everything they could have asked for. What a smart leader that definitely didn't team up with people similar to those who made her hate crests
God I hate Edelgard so much. I don't understand the appeal of her character/route, beyond people who want to make her their Fascist waifu
@@Venetheus Because's she a tragic character who suffered so much and had to walk a difficult road while doing her best to fight for her beliefs Frankly, in virtually any other Fire Emblem setting, Edelgard's an absolute hero given how it's always about defeating the dragon and/or god.
@@0axis771 So is Dimitri, just as much if not far more than Edelgard. But Dimitri didn't start a continental war because of his sad backstory.
Starting a continental war against the Church while ignoring the actual threat because she has a bad backstory is the making of a villain. Any sympathy she might have had ends with her plans to ally with the mole people and destroy the Church
@@0axis771that’s not fully accurate at all. Dragons are split between the good ones and the ones that deteriorated. We are only able to kill the deteriorated dragons because the good dragons trusted us with weapons that could kill them. Most of the good dragons even gave up their powers to protect the other races. If Edelgard is a tragic person so are the dragons we have to kill in most FE games. They were written to mentally deteriorate unless they give up a core part of their species.
@@0axis771 I would not call her hero. For all of her supposed "cunning" she is broken naive idealist. One of those described best with "road to hell is paved with good intentions" . She pretty much projected all the bad things humans and agarthans did into Seiros and Co. While Rhea is far from saint(pun intended) , what Edelgard did is so much worse.
It would likely be possible to make several videos about Hyrule if you're curious. Not to mention the other lands in that world that are visited for a few more. Still, there is the nightmare of the Nintendo legal team.
I have a theory that Manuela was stabbed with a dagger that can take the crest of a person and or Nabatean and was meant for Flayn
So it technically drained her blood since she has no crest
Them nuking Fort Merceus was actually smart in my opinion but it was thwarted by the Death Knight helping people to get out of the blast radius in Silver Snow & Verdant Wind. If that had succeeded they really would have only had to deal with Edelgard and remnants of the resistance army. In Verdant Wind they probably wouldn't even have to worry about Alymra's forces as much if it landed. In other cases they probably didn't want to use the nukes since Edelgard was there who they thought of as a pawn and their new masterpiece, even though she proved time and time again she was a hindrance to them/actively working against them
But the main party escapes in BL as well. The missile was wasted, it serve no purpose other than twsitd are a great threat. Which in BL they get kill easily, not even a major villain, just another map.
@@oscarmendez1477 Pretty sure the nuke/missile doesn't happen in BL's as Thales is dealt with beforehand, and the death knight meets his end in this map and doesn't escape (correct me if I am wrong). But are you saying the missile should have landed at some point in the game/story? That would kill at least 50% of your army/students if not all which would be worse than Edelgard and Hubert leaving your party in SS if you didn't expect that (my first play through I didn't know to speak to Edelgard for the coronation in Ch11 and lost them when I had invested so much into them both but also made the story more impactful). Story and game play wise the missiles do show Twsitd are a great threat but there needed to be a reason they didn't hit otherwise the story would end or game play wise suck. As losing so many characters this way would be like wow in a negative way and would not have the same effect as Edelgard/Hubert leaving. The only missile truly wasted is when Thales destroys Arianrhod to prove a point to Edelgard. All the other missiles were thwarted by something (Sothis, Death Knight or Rhea) which Twsitd couldn't predict would be stopped so it was not a waste story wise
I really hope Fire Emblem fixes its villains especially after Engage's villains were "evil purple dragon" and the Four Clowns.
Not inserting an unbelievably stupid reason to feel sympathetic towards them at the last second is a good start.
Along with my own gripes, knowing how badly written the Agrathan’s were vs how they could have been is one of the reasons I will never play three houses again.
You should. Everyone should.
I feel the writers didn’t want to commit to the “antagonists” being a little sympathetic and make all sides an ugly shade of moral gray. The botching of the writing for the Agarthans, how short and rushed Crimson Flower is… both cover the “evil” factions of Three Houses. It also touches on how horrible colonialism is, which might upset people in certain countries…
You guys I'm starting to think this guy thinks Three Houses writing is a mess
thanks for the vids!
Have you thought doing a similar series about Fire Emblem Fates? I think the games are overly hated, but than I remember how poorly Conquest storyline is written, and go "yeah, the hate is somewhat deserved" XD
Edel working with Epimendes would make for a better story in TH, too bad Epipen is a Hopes invention.
Brain Rot is real, just cause they are "immortal" doesnt mean they are rot inmune
I'd love a tour guide of Tellius if you're not sick of Fire Emblem yet
The most "cold take" title of all time. It'd be really concerning to see someone take up the opposite stance in a serious manner.