Why The Adrestian Empire Will Fail
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 เม.ย. 2024
- HOOO boy don't you just love the smell of war crimes and flame wars in the morning?
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Why does every single nickname for the Agarthans make me chuckle? And why did "Cult of Dubstep" make me laugh the hardest?
Yea, my first route was Verdant Wind and that definitely colors my depiction of events. It also makes me side with Claude's ideas more often
Hey me too: nice to meet a fellow deer🦌
Same! Though I like to think, even without that bias, that Verdant Wind offers the most complete picture of all the routes, even if it's still somewhat incomplete.
@@Error403HRD For sure. Learning a good amount of the true history to help Fódlan develop into a better world is what I like about Verdant Wind
Hey, me too. Verdant Wind was my first route and its still my defacto route for me
5:49 There is that one Abyssal Library document that posits that King Klaus I was assassinated, and the whole will was a forgery, possibly orchestrated by the Agarthans. If so, that was probably one of their most successful ploys over the 1100 years between the Wat of Heroes and the game.
It really just comes down to the same reason the Church itself had its failings and collapsed in the game, the foundation is built upon lies, the two factions, and leaders of those factions, are two sides of the same coin.
Honestly I thought the same when I finished all routes in 3 Houses. I'm not done with 3 Hopes yet. All of the "and everyone was happily ever after" endings felt wrong to me, but especially in Crimson Flower it just felt... Improbable lol.
Also I started with Golden Deer, but ended up adoring the Blue Lions instead. Go figure.
Honestly Blue Lions is my favourite route and feels more of a satisfying ending than the Black Eagles.
@@BILLYBOBBYLADS Eh, nothing changes that much, and you don't really deal with the Agarthians
I will always be a Dimitri loyalist, and I can't believe I was robbed of my S support with him with my first playthrough as male Byleth, so apparently Dedue, Felix, and freaking Gilbert can get their endings with him but I can't?! Unacceptable... But alas I settled with Marianne having an ending with Dimitri and if I recall correctly, I S supported Shamir instead, sorry Catherine but well, you died so I don't care, never play Maddening as your first difficulty playthrough... It was won through blood, toil, sweat, and tears of losing Ashe, Dedue because it's his fault for not returning quickly so he ended up being expendable cannon fodder, Gilbert, and Catherine. RIP
I personally think Crimson Flower is the victim of bad/rushed writing. There are many issues with the plot that are covered up by lazy and quick bits of information
Yeah when I played 3H it was pretty obvious to me that CF would've led to the most unstable and chaotic ending for Fodlan. I really didn't like how all the ending things just went like "they all lived happily ever after The End". If all ends are the same, then Edelgard's means aren't justified
But the good endings of the other routed only take place because of the war. If Edelgard had not acted, everything would remain the same.
If It werent for Edelgard actions, Rhea would never have left her position on non-CF routes, and nothing would have changed.
So even when she looses the war, her actions bring the world she dreamt of, even if she doesnt live to know It in most routes
@@gumi6286 So she's the King Rudolf of the game
@@berserkerciaran red armor does that to a mf
She turned into the monster they wanted her to become during all of those experiments.
@@neopets666 I like more my idea of her as an anti-hero who starts the war so that someone more fitting can rise against her, than a mere tool of the mole people
When I first played Three Houses, I was going to play Crimson Flower first: but then I chose Verdant Wind instead because Claude and the rest of the Golden Deer made me think of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure🦌
Thank you JoJo, for saving me from choosing the losing side first✊
Something to consider is how the newly discovered lost technology will shape the future. It could either destroy the Empire or be its salvation.
14:00 I dunno, I’m pretty sure Lysithea did all the heavy lifting in my playthrough
The biggest issue for Edelgard is that going the Crimson Eagle route , will guarantee a Yugoslav War like situation to happen in the future . Most likely spurned by the Dark Faction. Fodlan was able to keep together because of Rhea keeping the lie of Fodlan down for centuries while Edelgard wouldn't be able to . This is the tragedy of Edelgard , one who wants to make right past wrongs but goes about them in the worst ways possible which guarantee's future conflicts .
Well put.
@@TheHearthGuy Thank You
Doubtful. The thing is, look at how CF ended. With Rhea burning down the kingdom's capital. And the Empire saves the Kingdom's people as a result. And the fact that Edelgard clearly immediately attacks and destroys TWSITD after the Kingdom is brought down. In essence, there IS no dark faction to deal with.
So if you basically have a situation where you destroy every dark faction, the people are now supportive of you for the help, then there's nothing to actually oppose you.
There's a reason why Edelgard's route has several endings labeled "true peace" on there.
@@0axis771 "And the fact that Edelgard clearly immediately attacks and destroys TWSITD after the Kingdom is brought down" believe it or not, I don't believe the post ending scrawl on this since they are in theory at their strongest here since they were mostly left alone. Nemesis doesn't just roll over and die.
@@uberculex No, they aren't at their strongest. You know why?
Because no Dukedom, her friends are with her to stabilize the Empire, and her allies are the ones occupying the conquered nation.
No political or military power was actually gained because Edelgard minimized their military growth. And Cornelia dies and they used the javelins too soon.
And if you played that auxiliary mission, it's revealed that Edelgard has been sending Jeritza on covert missions to destroy Agarthan bases.
Meaning that TWSITD actually don't get nearly as much power as you think they do.
Maybe a video on your favorite FE Three Houses lords?
Also, Wilhelm’s account is more likely a result of not being aware of the whole Zanado-fueled vengeance or the Nabateans vs. Agarthan blood feud it stemmed from. His account is more likely an honest BUT VERY IMCOMPLETE account of what was going on.
And it wouldn’t have mattered if Edelgard had the full story because for her, the system the Church held up was the problem. She might somewhat understand why Rhea did what she did but it doesn’t change what she created.
Also, in regards to the scapegoating of the people of Duscur, Arundel (Thales in disguise) and Cornelia (Cleobulus in disguise) were the ones basically in charge of investigating the matter (for lack of a better term) so they had a vested interest in dismissing Dimitri’s account.
Despite what the video may suggest, Edelgard is one of my favorite characters. Although, Claude is still the best lord (due to Three Hopes, more debatable if we're just considering Three Houses).
I can *kinda* see that about Wilhelm, but Three Hopes seems to suggest a closer relationship between the Saints and Wilhelm than just that. Although that is speculation, I admit.
As for the scapegoating of Duscur, I was more speaking towards the Kingdom as a whole. Not a single lord or noble took what Dimitri was saying seriously? Even to the point that Ingrid, one of Dimitri's closest friends doesn't believe it at first? Sounds like more than just Arundel, Cornelia, or Rufus covering things up.
@@TheHearthGuy
Never said you did.
Always was a Dimitri guy myself. Best character and Dimileth is one of the handful of pairings I have any strong opinion on.
I can still see the other sides, or at least I try to.
Eh, close or not, I doubt Rhea would share that part given how painful it was. She didn’t reveal the truth to Claude and Byleth in GW about it until she was forced to by Nemesis making an unwanted (for Fodlan) return. Hell, she doesn’t even mention it to Byleth in SS.
Tbf, there were already tensions between Duscur and Faerghus. Hell, the entourage was heading to Duscur to make peace. The disguised Argarthans and Rufus could easily frame it as Duscur attacking under false pretenses. Plus, a few scattered groups of Duscur men were used as scouts by the attackers which made it easier for them to fool people. I assume most people assumed his memory was affected by his trauma. Plus, among those we do know who didn’t buy it (like Sylvain), there wasn’t anything they could do about it at that time.
@@stevenchoza6391 I am a Dimitri fan, especially considering he gets, well, really the only arc between the lords in Houses.
I can see you point about Rhea, although I could have sworn she or someone else told Byleth some version of the story in SS.
And you make solid points about the Tragedy being a set up for the people of Duscur.
Nice argument, unfortunately logistics don't exist in Fodlandia.
Golden Wildfire is the worst route because while we saw Claude's more tactical side, it came at the cost of his wisdom/maturity because Three Houses Claude isn't nearly this stupid about Rhea, and none of the changes in the Hopes timeline justified how much less nuanced his views of Fódlan's issues are.
Azure Gleam is the best route because it took on the worldbuilding role that Verdant Wind previously held, and Dimitri got to show his more tactical side, but also a bit more of his political knowhow and understanding of the true nature of his power.
TBF, Three Hopes has the war occur FAR earlier, TBF
@@chrisdiokno5600 Still, I find it hard to believe that Claude would somehow become so much less curious and open-minded.
@@MrGksarathy What war without Byleth does to a MF
This video is fantastic and outlines every reason I feel like Edelgard is going to fail sooner or later.
Three Houses/Hopes has absolutely led to both the best and worst discussion I've seen in the fandom, I think it might actually be more divisive than Fates was in its day.
In terms of the balance of power in Edelgard's routes, I do believe that while rebellions are likely they are much less dangerous than the prior instances that gave rise to the non-Adrestian polities to begin with, and the reason lies in the main difference between Fodlan's feudalism and the real-world kind: the nobles really are All That TM in Fodlan.
Faerghus has a horrible climate and no riches to speak of, but what it does have in abundance is Elite Crests left over from Nemesis. With the power of dragon blood and dragon bone (seriously, Seiros, you had centuries to clean that junk up), the northerners can punch well above their weight class. Adrestia can only hold on against them in a straight fight because it has an overwhelming manpower advantage, and if the Kingdom gets its shit together and fields its big hitters as a single solid core Adrestia can forget about winning. Which is why, crucially, Edelgard's plans always involved an element of treachery within the Kingdom, whether through Cornelia's coup in Three Houses or through mass defections in Mach in Three Hopes. Notably, these plans are big gambles and do in fact go awry in Edelgard's routes (through Rhea going to Fhirdiad and/or Thales pulling away support in CF, and through Leeroy Lonato in SB), requiring Anime Protagonist Intervention to salvage.
By the end of Edelgard's routes in either game the nobles of Faerghus are in disarray. Crimson Flower involves the death of Rodrigue, Ingrid (if unrecruited), Dimitri, and Gustave, permanently taking the Relics of their houses off the board. Similarly, Three Hopes involves a massacre of the central Faerghus nobility in Chapter 11. Claude's betrayal is itself not necessarily catastrophic. While there was tension between the Empire and the Alliance, that doesn't mean that the Alliance was united in its opposition to the Empire. Indeed, House Gloucester wouldn't join Claude's new rebellion under any circumstance, Lysithea outright supports unification, and Edmund's position is rather unclear. Even if Claude escapes Aillel, the Empire's victory there is decisive and will send a strong message to Leicester that will discourage their strongest warriors from properly rallying. I wouldn't even bet on Holst throwing in with Claude there, and would actually bet against Holst resisting further if Claude dies.
That is, in the end, the main point of Edelgard's war plans. The objective isn't just to take over, it is also to bleed the Crested nobility to the point of breaking their ability to mount effective resistance. The shadow war with the Agarthans in CF is unlikely to be a big drain either, as the very presence of the Javelins of Light means that realistically the only way for that war to go is for an overwhelming attack on Shambhala to occur pretty much immediately after the fall of Fhirdiad, something that the destruction of Arianrhod can enable by providing the trail for the Javelins. While the reforms themselves are an administrative challenge that was never attempted in Fodlan's entire history (what with Rhea basically adopting Nemesis's system whole cloth), the military component is not the likely point of failure.
Now, to be as fair and balanced as my Edelgard-supporting self can be, I do not give Edelgard good chances in a no-intervention scenario. While the sheer divergence between Houses and Hopes shows that there was a wealth of opportunity for things to deviate wildly in 1180, Edelgard's war plans were always long shots that depended on her enemies not being at their best, and indeed mostly revolved around moving her enemies on all sides into each other's way to have them sort themselves out without requiring her to apply the very limited resources that she considered actually reliable. Indeed, the only thing that stops me from saying that the Agarthans have the advantage there overall is their own comical ineptitude (and lack of defined endgame).
Plus, it's arguably the prescence of Byleth that tempers her from going far off the deep end. Plus, IIRC, her goal is to end the Crest System, and kick off a meritocracy
Love your video essays keep up the work
I finished crimson flower first then played all the other routes and slowly realized how insane Edel is. Siding with an organization that dropped nukes is not it.
I think it's more she wanted to gain their trust to get them to let their guard down, as much as she hated it, and she can also destroy Rheea
So youre saying that europe and the rest of the world should turn against USA?
Oh yeah just like the second she dies that empire is falling apart
Most of her paired endings reveal that she retires from the position of emperor and appoints someone else.
So the Empire doesn't just fall apart after she dies. The whole point of establishing a meritocracy is to avoid precisely that.
Which doesnt make much sense considering the person who did the most is likely someone with a crest like Ferdinand, which would further cause issues with the plan in the longhaul. Then, if you assume it can't be someone with a crest, that really only leaves Caspar, who while great, clearly cant lead squat. Then, anyone else unnamed could be easily puppeteer'd, especially when you consider how unlikely it is a shadow war would remove all the Agarthans from the playing field. @LAZERAK47V2
@@matthewsimon6170 TBF, its not like she wouldn't say, advise the new leader or leaders.
@@LAZERAK47V2
Reminder
People with crests are actually stronger and better than people who don't have them. This doesn't come up much in gameplay, but, remember; Raphael is like, a BIG guy, and Dimitri is mentioned as being several times stronger than him despite being pretty weedy, because he has a Crest, but Raphael doesn't. People with crests are just better than people who don't. Maybe that sucks, but them's the breaks. If two otherwise equal people are in a competition, the one with a crest will win. This also means people with crests will be much more well rounded, because they don't need to hyperfixate on one or two areas of specificity.
Her meritocracy will almost immediately revert back to being crest dominated, unless she is present to aggressively and forcefully convince everyone what merit means to her, which will logically end the moment she's not around to bend the definition of meritocracy in weird ways.
Because she is an insane smoothbrain dictator who logically is getting assassinated within the year, probably by someone who is nominally an ally, and can build an actual government off the back of "I got her"
@@chrisdiokno5600 That doesn't mean much if the only reason people are following her lead is so she doesn't toss em onto the ungodly amount of bodies she had to cut down to make the boat float on a river of blood.
Thanks for the video.
@1:33 Hubert would buy it,
and then resell it for a higher price.
When it comes to Crimson Flower vs Scarlett ablaze. i think Crimson flower Empire would crash and burn because Edelgard would start her new government that would start fall quick because the nobles would just use connections and money and black mail that would just undo Edelgards plan and create another war! Not to mention, Edelgard in Crimson flower doesn't listen to anyone other than Byleth. Byleth, who essentially is a Echo chamber because they do not go against her keeping secrets and lying, so Crimson flower Empire is DOOMED for Another war. in Scarlet Ablaze empire, She has the same plan but this time she is more open for Suggestions from Allie OTHER than the MC because she was shown concequences for her lying, even if it was very short and maybe could be dragged out a bit. In the supports and possibly on screen, Shez would voice his/her disagreements on Edelgards plan and opinions and point the errors that could be Fixed and she is actually listening to Them! I think Scareltt Ablaze Empire might actually have a chance at being in true peace! Especially since this Edelgard will actually listen if her Friends tell her if there is a problem in her plan.
Edelgard's main problem is keeping secrets and lying to everyone and wanting EVERYTHING to be under HER control because it is hard for her tp trust others after the life she had. I think Byleth makes things worse since they pretty much make her issues grow rather than have her fight that inner demon and brings the empire down because of it. Shez and Scarlet Ablaze forcer Edelgard to stop her shit and force her to fight that issue and tell her friends the truth! Given that her echo chamber is not with her this time!
I mean if the empire has their own version of the NKVD... (Hubert LOL) Maybe her enemies will "Magically" disappear before they can even react, I can see Hubert already thinking of that scenario and with the use of fear-mongering and connections of their own, could just be enough to wipe out the opposition before they can even form any coalition, you can never know with this kind of scenario, I mean in real life we thought Trotsky was gonna rule the Soviets after Lenin's death, but here comes Stalin out of nowhere using the same tactics I mentioned and he got into power without too much violence, just enough to make sure everyone follows, but not too much that it ended up with a Russian Civil War 2 electric boogaloo...
And after a literal continent-wide spanning war with most likely, millions of casualties, only mercenary companies would be willing to take up arms and put their neck on the line for some nobles, people wouldn't be willing to go against their emperor to fight yet another war of bloodshed after already fighting a grueling conflict that pretty much ended up in a stalemate for five years, there are some of course, but not many at this point.
There is also the fact a meritocracy wouldn’t work in fodlan because 1. Meirt is deeply subjective person to person which makes it extremely fragile and it also doesn’t prevent nepotism since Nobles could just simply choose their children as their hierarchy, 2. Meritocracy massively favor those with time and resources and often it nobles who where simply born with land and since Edelgard doesn’t do anything to even out and 3. Crest are a form of merit, people put value onto them and they get results, hell Edelgard proves that crest are valuable if she wins the war since she had two! So her solution to the problem is the same problem. There is also the fact that Edelgard society would be based on a lie as well since she sided with the Agarthans (Who by the way, are actual reason why Fodlan is messed up) by her own choice, framed Rhea. What would happen if people had found out what Edelgard did, they probably call her a hypocrite and consider her society bullshit.
1) Free education fixes that.
2) Again, free education fixes that. A lot of nobles we see are shown to be extremely incompetent and just got their position simply because they were born into it, not because they worked for it.
3) Crests are ONLY good for military purposes, not governing positions. This was brought up by Lindhardt. Merit is not dictated by those who are strong by military prowess but by the skill, intelligence, and other factors that allow them to be able to govern lands. And even in terms of military prowess, it's still not a guarantee, given characters like Caspar, Hubert, Dorothea, and other people who have no Crests but have so much skill and prowess in their abilities.
And her society isn't based on a lie. TWSITD is eradicated after the war, but more than that, Rhea has been the one who lied to society and based it around those lies. People are made to follow her false religion and ultimately set her people on the rulers of said religion, and Rhea even considers her position to be what leads Fodlan, hence why she wants Byleth, the vessel for Sothis, to take charge.
Ultimately, Edelgard's society does have a good chance of success for a time. No routes have a truly guaranteed future. But Edelgard's gives free education, open borders, and eradicates the absolute evil group. So ultimately, it gives the most freedom and chances for people and no longer have the threat of a dark group behind the scenes.
@@0axis771 1. Merit is still an opinion that people can make even with education.
2. Did Casper and Hubert really get their jobs through merit or was it because they belonged to already an established family that had ties to the empire? Edelgard also promotes a selection, not an election, something you criticize Rhea for choosing Byleth for. Hell, even Edelgard doesn’t pass this since she was literally born as a princess of the empire. It’s easier to get skills and education when you born with an advantage than others.
3. Yes it is based on a lie, Edelgard framed Rhea for the crimes of the Agarthans. All the problem in Fodlan lead directly back to the Agarthans and in a lot of cases Rhea was forced to do this. Edelgard did have a choice, multiple ones and she choose the worst one. At least Dimitri creates a more democrac council to listen to people and Claude actually opens up Fodlan. We also have reason to believe in Edelgard ending about destroying the Agarthans, she is a known unreliable narrator and at least in the other routes, you actually see the defeat of the Agarthans.
@@MrSupersmash93 1) No, it isn't. Education is education. People who are the most brilliant will ultimately stand out, and being a noble means nothing because now you aren't promised anything unless you put in hard work.
2) First of all, this is a bad take. You are saying the equivalent of, "You argue about society, but you live in it." Edelgard wants to change the system, but right now, she needs to use the system to her advantage before making the changes. It's something Edelgard herself acknowledges that she has to do so far until the changes can be made.
Second, Edelgard judges by character, not stations. Hubert's father was in the station to protect and serve, but betrayed. Hubert remains loyal. And Caspar's whole story is that he is promised nothing for lacking a Crest. He legit has to make a name for himself through his own merit.
3) Oh wow, this is just...so wrong. Edelgard did not frame Rhea for everything TWSITD did. The ONLY one you've got on that was what happened to Arianrhod, but that's one event vs. your argument that is you saying that Edelgard is framing Rhea for the "crimes". Also, no. Dimitri did NOT create anything resembling democracy. Or even a council. And Edelgard also opens up borders, both from her thing with Petra, and her own paralogue where she says that she intends to open borders to Almyra as well. And no, there's no unreliable narrator. Several endings confirm their defeat, even using the phrase "true peace" to describe it, which is missing from other routes, with Jeritza outright saying they are gone for good.
I'm sorry, but more than half your arguments come from bad faith and is projecting false information here.
@@0axis771 1. That’s total bullshit, look at our own society, we still choose the worst people, all who come from political dynasty and rich pricks to lead us which is no different from and we still have the Gaul to call ourselves a meritocracy? Get out of
2. But she really doesn’t, why conquer Fodlan and bring back the empire in the first place, why not just stick to her and make her ‘Changes’ in her region? She just a conqueror who just wants power because she experienced a loss of power. Oh yeah she has a great fucking judge of character, not siding with ethier Claude or Dimitri and instead siding with the very people who hurt her, calling Rhea’s people monster and never trying to get their side of the story, feeling sorry for Miklan the guy who was kick out not because he didn’t have a crest but because he tried to kill Slyvain twice and probably wouldn’t become a bandit if he just nothing. And again did Casper and Hubert get their jobs because of their names or their work, that the problem with merit.
3. Then why make the war with Agarthans a secret, why not expose them and tell the truth? Why is she basically covering them and solely focusing on the church? Also Edelgard perspective of the history of Fodlan straight up contradicts the actual lore of Three House, she believed Sothis and Nemesis were lovers and that Rhea killed her mother because of that. Also she kills/ banishes the one person who could have help with Almyra, Claude. Also you wrong about Dimitri not creating anything to help, this is from his ending “He was Known for listening intently to the voices of all, and for INSTITUTING a new form government in which the people free to be active participants” this sounds more like a democracy than Edelgard selection process.
@@MrSupersmash93 1) That sounds like you having a problem with today's society, which I don't deny is slowly breaking apart, but that's not really here nor there. In no way changes that how the system of Edelgard's with free education is set up is that people who are shown to be actually brilliant will be the ones to have the chance to be elevated. Nobles no longer have the power to suddenly gain these benefits without putting in work. So my point doesn't change.
2) It's already explained. Her war is with the Church, and ultimately, the other nations have the Church influence. The "Holy" Kingdom is very much supportive of the Church. And the Alliance, while a bit more neutral, still have Church faithfuls. 3Hopes does a good job showing that fighting the Church DOES ultimately involve the other two nations. So Edelgard conquering the other nations is ultimately becomes necessary.
Also, Edelgard doesn't side with TWSITD. She hates them and wants them gone. But in 3H, she never got the chance to break away from them until after the war, and when she does, she destroys them completely. 3H straight up shows Edelgard TRYING to talk to Claude in VW, but Claude ultimately refuses to answer anything and Dimitri is ultimately proven to be loyal to the Church, proven by 3Hopes. Not to mention how Rhea literally is unwilling to ever talk until Rhea finally feels remorse in Part 2 in the other routes, but until Rhea realizes how she was wrong, Rhea refuses to ever divulge. Once again, proven in the story.
No, Miklan was kicked out for the stated reason of not having a crest. Any indication that he was kicked out for trying to kill Sylvain is pure headcanon from you and others. Hell, 3Hopes literally tries to prove this when Dimitri recruits Miklan and makes him serve, trying to give him redemption.
And as I pointed out, Caspar DID get his job through work, not station. Because he was literally promised nothing for lack of a Crest. Hubert is a different case, but still proving my point.
3) How do you explain to people that there are a secret mole men that have been doing horrible shit behind the scenes and can take people's faces? There's no way to expose them or prove their existence. That's why they are always having to be taken care of from the shadows. No proof of their existence can be fully exposed. I think that's self-explanatory. It'd be like saying that the Illuminati exists IRL.
Also, now you're 100% proving that you didn't pay attention. Sothis and Nemesis was never stated to be lovers by Edelgard. Not once. I have no idea who gave you that headcanon, but you clearly did NOT pay attention to the story or you have been getting your information from Edelgard haters or something. Your info is now starting to be absurd on so many levels.
Edelgard letting Claude go and having him in her debt only helps support her efforts to negotiate with Almyra. Fact is, Edelgard straight up states that she intends to open borders if you played her paralogue or even saw her support with Petra.
And no, I can already prove to you that Dimitri did NOT create a democracy, because it's literally stated in his and Annette's ending that what his government is that of a DYNASTY. Dimitri didn't create a council or a democracy. The Kingdom is still a dynasty, and there are still nobles ultimately, proven by the many endings shown. You are like other Blue Lion fans who took that ending and wanted to insist that it was the absolute best thing, while hearing Edelgard say "merit" and insisting that it's a meritocracy. Despite how the term was never used to define her government.
A very unfaithful argument that I've heard for years.
====
Listen, this argument has gotten EXTREMELY long, and your arguments are rooted in bad faith.
You have clearly not played the game enough, or read the supports, or got wrong info from other people.
I recommend that you try to get your facts straight and maybe come with a shorter argument from this point on. I'd rather not waste so much time on this.
Love the video, small disagreements here and there but just want to compliment the quality of everything.
My main issue is that in Manuela's support Edelgard says she's fine with keeping the religion, just not the Church itself. And with Byleth having the Sword of the Creator the religion itself could come back as a unifying force, just not in the same, political, way. Also think you kind of underplayed just how powerful Byleth is, Byleth alone can keep literal armies down alone.
That being said these ONLY apply to Crimson Flower, where she has Byleth's raw power and the Sword of the Creator as a rallying point.
Faerghus and King Loog didn't receive help from the Agarthan's when they rebelled against Adrestia. The Kingdom had the most relic weapons so they wouldn't need it. That's basically just propaganda from Hubert found the in the Abyss Library that Linhardt tells you to take with a grain of salt.
Except they did. The literal fact that Ferdinand read about Pan, a mysterious figure that helped Loog, and how this rebellion actually ended up weakening the Empire and causing problems with the Church, and learning about the new relics like Balthus's paralogue, it's pretty evident that TWSITD were Loog's benefactors.
@@0axis771 There's nothing saying that Pan was a Slither and that King Loog received helped from them outside of the propaganda that Hubert is seen spreading in the Abyss and that NPCs living there comment on. Again, even Linhardt tells you that most of this stuff is probably fake. Hubert is the only one who uses the term TWSITD. Pan is also a historical figure so Ferdinand bringing him up once isn't damning either.
@@emmastokes64 Stop pushing the headcanon that the book was written by Hubert. Hubert was never in the Abyss library for that book to even exist.
Linhardt doesn't speak the absolute truth. Linhardt himself does not know everything. He assumes that these are fake cause he simply doesn't believe in them.
However, the books that talk about the notion that Loog was able to somehow get a large enough army to rebel without the Empire noticing, having new Relics which are supported by Balthus's paralogue when he mentioned the history of his Relic, and the fact that Ferdinand mentions that Pan is a figure that is not well known, only supports more about how this WAS TWSITD-involved.
The book revealing Pan being an Agarthan only makes sense why Pan would want to not be well known in history.
@@0axis771 It's not headcanon lol. You literally get told Hubert is in the Abyss spreading propaganda and also see other Adrestian's like the Death Knight and Metodey terrorizing the people living there. The actual headcanon is that Pan was a Slither and that Loog got help from them. The biggest red flag that shows that's not true is that Hubert is the only one who calls them "Those Who Slither In The Dark" which is the term the propaganda book uses.
The Cindered Shadows DLC was a big red herring to bait Edelgard fans into thinking the church is super evil but they took the bait and it ended up not being true
On Combat At Tailtean Plains in crimson flower Dedue gives the soldiers crest stones that he found in the castle vaults and Dimitri gets upset at him for him because clearly he knows probably one of those things that’s passed down from to king to king. This conversation triggers if you don’t defeat the Paladin that’s in front of Sylvain on that map and he transforms into a demonic beast.
Not to mention the obvious that adrestia was still the Agarthans enemy and they wanted to destabilize the empire so that it’ll be easier to divide and conquer which is what they ended up doing in present day by infiltrating and taking over the empire and kingdom and they almost did it with the alliance by pretending to be someone from house Gloucester and setting up Claude’s uncle and the heir to be killed, but they didn’t count on lady Tiana being In almyra and Claude coming to the picture.
On the matter of CF/NDI timelines, I don't even believe in the validity of CF's ending.
I don't think Edelgard gets to her peace, even if claude and dimitri go poof.
I firmly believe that Free the Soul of N would be able to beat Post-war Edelgard, through the several powers they hold, and that The Left eye of Nemesis would be reborn.
Fellow church chad.
isn’t it kinda implied that crests disappear in crimson flower after rhea is defeated that would mean that edelgard should be around a bit longer
I'm pretty sure it was just Byleths crest that disappeared
I played dimitri house first and think that every leader is correct in their views despite their flaws.
Now to address some things from the video:
12:04 japan went through a period like this just fine, a couple of rebellions by the "old guard" who were upset at the restructuring of society which resulted in a couple of tens/hundreds of thousands dead but propelled japan from feudal society to industrialized great power
13:46 m!byleth will take over as regent until his and edelgards child is old enough to take the throne after which byleth will become the new archbishop
16:09 mongols fought multiple countries at the same time during their invasions of europe, subutai was just that good. Fighting on multiple fronts is basically an everyday occurence in any total war game on higher difficulty.
Also since edelgard wants a crestless society she achieves her goals even in the routes in which she dies.
8:25 other than the tragedy of Nuvelle happening (same situation as Duscur but with Constance), I’d probably agree
I understand why they wanted us to play as all the advertised lords, but the way they bend over backwards trying to make Edelgard a hero in her own route just does not work. Her role is so clearly intended to be villainous as the invading party that it just feels nonsensical trying to make the player feel justified in anything that they're doing. None of it ever feels right. I played Blue Lions first, so naturally I tend to favor that route more than the others, but even Verdant Wind as a story is something I can get behind. There's nothing in Edelgard's route that I can make sense of.
It would have been one thing if they were pushing her as the evil route but the idea of the tyrannical dictator being the supposed good guy in the end is something that has never sat well with me.
Edelgard's route is about breaking through the status quo. The way the world functioned clearly wasn't right. Aside from the whole "world is ruled by lizard people" thing it was clear that the Crest system was extremely discriminatory and harmful.
It's more of a "for the greater good" type of story. Though I wish they developed it a bit more, not sure why CF was so short compared to the other routes. Even the Agarthans were defeated off-screen in the epilogue.
I think it's more you balance her out so she doesn't become a full blown tyrant, and instead she wants a united Fodlan that gets rid of their Crest focused society, where people can rise or fall on their own merits
@@chrisdiokno5600
However, in a stunning show of utter stupidity, her merit based society will become dominated by people with crests again almost immediately.
Remember, crests are literally superpowers. It's easy to forget since most of them do basically nothing in gameplay, but, if you take two equal people, then give one a crest, the one with the crest becomes much, much stronger.
All she's done is remove the formal rule, but not changed the actual result of that rule.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 yah, her system's is the same as ASHNARDS for crying out loud. In addition, the crest system was only put in place out of perceived necessety... not even RHEA likes it, the descendants of the ones that killed her family exalted with those sins swept under the rug? but she keeps it cause she doesn't want a witch hunt against them. In other words if Edelgard just TALKED with Rhea or Hanneman or Claude or Linhardt etc. she'd realize there were plenty of diplomatic solutions that didn't involve a massive war even siding with the dubstep cult to make it happen y'know the people who killed their family
The church was just not evil enough to remotely justify her war
I feel like they should've made the church more morally grey maybe even fold the dubstep cult into them then Edelgard would have more of a motive to destroy them and better highlight the choice between the different approaches to fixing things. But nope... they kinda did almost nothing wrong and could have been dealt with via discussion rather than... violent overthrow (besides not like the crest system was mandated by the church plenty of places didn't place inheritance over crests so it more feels like the issues are more on an area by area basis)
Edelgard's war: completely unnecessary and fixes nothing in the long term
I don't think that Jeritza would take over as the Black Eagles Professor. We can see that Manuela is the Black Eagles Professor and Hanneman is the Blue Lions professor unless Byleth chooses one of those classes, in which case they then teach the Golden Deer.
Following that logic, it seems that Jeritza would naturally teach the Golden Deer. I don't think he would get the same option as Byleth to choose his class especially as this isn't his first year teaching (technically).
Then again, I don't think that would really change much. It's unknown what role Jeritza was exactly supposed to play that he couldn't as a Weapons Instructor. If anything, as a Weapons Instructor, Jeritza had more free time and leeway with what he could do.
Also, I don't think he would kill Flayn as Edelgard could still show up as the Flame Emperor and stop him.
I'm not sure if the Remire plague would still happen, it's not clear why it occurred in the first place, however Kronya killing Jeralt (or someone else close to Edelgard) would likely happen as that occurred as a warning to Edelgard not to get too buddy-buddy with her classmates. And like you said, Kronya likely wouldn't get caught (or even revealed perhaps) which means Solon wouldn't use her for the Forbidden Spell of Zahras. Meaning that both Kronya and Solon would likely still be in play. And, like you said again, the Attack on the Holy Tomb likely wouldn't occur either which means Edelgard has additional time to prepare for the attack on Garreg Mach.
That would also mean, however, that the attack on Garreg Mach would come as a surprise to Rhea and her defenses wouldn't be as strong. That, however, would likely backfire on Edelgard like you said. In all other routes, Byleth helps with the defense of Garreg Mach and is able to repel the initial attack. It's only when the Agarthan reinforcements show up that Rhea takes things into her own hands and transforms into the Immaculate One, however Thales has accounted for this with Demonic Beasts stopping her, allowing her to be captured. When Edelgard and Byleth together overwhelm her with their initial forces, Rhea transforms and flees instead, which is likely what would happen with a surprise attack without Agarthan reinforcements to subdue her.
After that, the war would still stalemate and slowly start to weaken the Empire until they collapsed, or the fighting would continue for an indefinite amount of time. Who knows?
Another point to note is whether Edelgard would still become Emperor early on and place Duke Aegir under house arrest. Either way, it would likely not change anything.
As a side note, I actually read a fic regard this topic. It hypothesized that the war would last for 10 years with the war turning against Edelgard's favor after 5 years and slowly giving way to the Church and Kingdom forces. Edelgard would hold on for as long as she could and even hold the territory around Enbarr for an entire year before her forces completely crumpled and she would be captured alive, even in her Hegemon form, where she is then to be executed (and subsequently falls in love with Rhea... it's a weird fic...).
Crazy fanfiction, you had me onboard on what war in Fodlan may end up being like without Byleth or Shez intervention only for it to end with monster girl lesbian kissing one another, the tonal whiplash, we went from an analysis of a continent-wide spanning conflict to a fetish porno.
As someone familiar with historical revolutions like the ones in France and Russia, there is at least the chance that Adestria will be reformed after Edelgard is done driving it to the ground... But *only* after a huge fuck-off civil war that engulfs the entire continent, resulting in either fragmentation that puts all of Fódlan back to square one, or a Yugoslavia scenario where multiple ethnic and religious groups are extremely prejudiced against one another because they're forced to be united instead of allowed to live in separate nations.
Frankly
I'm pretty sure CF just leads into a massive Almyran invasion that nobody in Fodlan has the ability to resist, because they are mostly all dead, have broken into civil war, or are just not unified.
When your neighbor is like, Gengis Khan with dragon-mounted archers, you REALLY don't want to have post-war devestation and such, y'know?
Edelgard's empire should last a least a few generations before regions try to breakaway. After the conquest all the talented commanders and generals are either dead or on her side. She is abolishing the class system so the common people will be on her side. Even the Agarthans have been canonically eradicated.
The common people are on her side for like four months, before the "meritocracy" is immediately dominated by people with crests, who, reminder, do actually have minor super powers, and they realize that the war was for literally nothing, as far as they can see.
You know, the title annoyed me, but I decided to hear you out. And I appreciate, as an Edelgard fan, that you argued with a relatively impartial stance and tried to argue the facts and logic as much as possible.
I'll try to argue the points you made using Crimson Flower, Scarlet Blaze, Golden Wildfire, and the no Byleth/Shez scenario.
Warning: LONG post. But that just shows how I did enjoy your video.
*- Crimson Flower:*
When you argued about how Rhea did maintain peace for a very long time, I feel that it has to be understood that Rhea's form of peace is incredibly dubious and arguably unethical in nature. Rhea's form of peace involves a lot of things where she allows nobles with Crests to do almost anything they want (see how a commoner mentioned she lost her whole family because of a noble) and also the much corruption in the nobility that has been going on. It also involves a lot of suppression of technology and keeping people ignorant. As we clearly see, Rhea's peace involves some of the cruelest things happening overall by the present day comes in. Not to mention how isolationist policies are never good long run.
Also, it is important to note that Edelgard dismantles the Church, not the religion. Even stated in Ferdinand's support with Mercedes that Edelgard allows people to continue to practice their faith and religion. So even after the war in CF is over, people's identity of following the same faith will not be stripped from them, so there is still a good aspect. Furthermore, because Rhea tries to burn down the Kingdom's capital and Edelgard goes to help the people, it's made clear that the Empire will be seen as saviors to the people of the Kingdom as a result of this.
Furthermore, if she eradicates TWSITD, there's no dark secret faction that will bring about instability. Is Edelgard's future guaranteed? No. But it will bring about the best form of peace that is arguably the most ethical because no immortal is controlling the people, the people are now able to have free education, and there's no evil group that will be able to mess things up.
*- Scarlet Blaze:*
A great point you brought up about how the Empire overextended and couldn't fight two fronts, which Edelgard realizes is a mistake and ultimately understands the importance of cooperating with the Alliance/Federation. However, you are right that there is tension in trust given how easily Claude jumped ship the moment that Byleth convinced him otherwise. However, the good ending of Scarlet Blaze does ultimately make a point to show that Claude will support Edelgard as she finishes off the Kingdom in a final stand.
After all, in SB, things went as Hubert personally hoped, where Aegir and all the remaining people of the Empire who opposed Edelgard banded together. This allowed Edelgard to ultimately crush every rebel faction in her Empire. With Thales and Rhea's supposed deaths, both TWSITD and the Central Church lost much influence and power. The Kingdom, mostly beaten down, can only make a weak final stand before being crushed by Edelgard and Claude completely.
The thing to note is that recruiting Byleth results in Edelgard having a chance to talk to Claude and get to know each other a bit more. And Claude learning that Edelgard is not truly as ruthless as he thought her to be, when he learns that Edelgard doesn't want Rhea dead. This chance where Claude learns a bit more means that some trust has been built between them. Hence why it ends with Claude and Edelgard reaffirming their newfound friendship.
*- Golden Wildfire:*
I agree. This is arguably the best route in my opinion and a personal favorite. Claude holds all the cards and can force the Empire and Kingdom to hold peace. With the Federation defeating the Central Church once and for all, the Empire lost its reason for war. And Edelgard owes Claude a favor. And Claude has so much unity of his nation because of this victory that even the Empire and Kingdom cannot dismiss him.
Claude also knows about TWSITD and can get Dimitri to help once more with Edelgard to eliminate the dark forces. Ultimately, there can be a begrudging form of peace that might be a bit unstable but has genuine merit behind it.
*- No Byleth/Shez:*
I dunno. Without Byleth, Edelgard would easily kill Kostas. Kostas being dead means that the bandits will scatter like in 3Hopes. Then that means like in 3Hopes, Jeritza is the professor and thus can track down Monica.
Even if you argue that Monica cannot be saved, Edelgard can use Jeritza to masquerade missions to undermine TWSITD and keep tabs on them. Edelgard wouldn't allow Flayn to be killed, and the Creator Sword would come into Edelgard's possession, but Thales will note that without the Crest Stone, it's unable to be used, and likely will modify it so that Edelgard can use it.
And if Edelgard has more time on her hands in the Academy, she could work to secure more alliances with others. Namely, she could end up being able to work something out with Claude. Claude also would not be as confident to take things on his own and might secure a working relationship with Edelgard because there's no Byleth to put all his hopes on.
---
Anyway, great video and if you read all the way here, I hope that you enjoyed my points.
First: Based Golden Wildfire fan. Love to see it.
Second: I really enjoyed reading your comment, it addressed things in a very clear and straightforward way and I appreciate the even-handedness of it.
Some of the points do come down to interpretation since we obviously can't know what exactly happened after the end of the game, but I will say that I doubt any sort of alliance between Claude or Edelgard would be likely. Both are far too secretive, distrusting, as well as ambitious to try and let each other in on their whole plan from the get-go. In Hopes, Edelgard only lets Claude know some of what she knows after she allies with him from necessity.
As for how people would approach Edelgard after CF, I believe there'd still be serious resentment. Its true that she only got rid of the Central Church, but the Central Church is the one that most Kingdom citizens are loyal to in the first place. As I mentioned in the video, that much resentment during a politically and socially unstable period is a recipe for disaster.
All in all, great points and I love to see some constructive discussion.
@@TheHearthGuy Yeah, no matter what, Edelgard 100% will have to be prepared to deal with the resentment. Even if her Empire prospers in the long run, there's a big mess to clean up and scars that simply will never heal.
And I think it was the point of all the routes, whether 3H or 3Hopes. No routes will come out perfectly. It's messy, it's chaotic, it's harsh and cruel. No routes are perfectly righteous and just. Whether you are the instigator or not, or even if your cause is righteous or not, war always leaves behind a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
Even if Edelgard was right, If I was Byleth I would just be like "I don't care, you killed my Dad" and side with Rhea.
Because she is partly responsible for that.
@@MagiaBased Except Edelgard didn't. Hell, the people who killed Byleth's dad tortured Edelgard and killed her siblings.
@@0axis771 yeah and she's still stupid enough to help them. . .
0:44 Ironically enough, my first route was the Azure Moon route but I find myself agreeing more with Edelgard's ideologies than Dimitri's. 😶 Make of that what you will.
There are exceptions to every rule. And it was more a point about why people get attached to the houses they do.
You're right, my opinion on Edelgard hasn't changed since I first got through the game with the Black Eagles, I don't like her.
Awesome video) 👌 Edelgard is a very good villain and antagonist. As a playable character not so much due to her being said villain/antagonist.
She's like Arvis, but less competent and is defeated far sooner then him.
Very big disagree. Edelgard is an incredible character and works really well as a protag because it's not a black and white story, especially when TWSITD are removed. Fodlan is incredibly corrupt and rotten, and Edelgard is ultimately the one who finally decides that enough was enough.
Also, Arvis was WAY more incompetent, given that he literally did NOTHING about the clearly evil group. Least Edelgard moved to completely eradicate them, ensuring peace. Arvis lets them stick around and ultimately let them gain power, bringing Loptous back and untold cruelty.
21:13 I always figured that dagger Edelgard pulled out was some kind of tell for the bandits, because surely she had some kind of plan in case of brigand charging her with axe ready..... Right?
My guess is if Byleth and Jeralt weren't there Edelgard would just reveal that she is the flame Emperor and had Kostas kill Claude and Dimitri
Found the one who slither in the dark
What I don't like about three houses and I guess by extension three hopes is that it dumps you in the middle of a mess between monsters and forces you to choose even though you are supposed to be a teacher and thus impartial. Why should I care about any of these groups when they are some combination of nuts, moronic, and outright immoral?
Being honest I kinda think Fodlan's screwed no matter what ending you go for:
Azure Moon leaves it in the hands of a literal madman whose backers wont lift a single finger to ever stop him.
Silver Snow leaves it in the hands of a person whose closest job to governance beforehand was 'first year teacher' and is now god king. Also enshrines Crest system harder than ever.
Verdant Wind is just Silver Snow, but also the leader of the alliance reveals he was only using it to become king of Fodlan's biggest outside enemy.
And Crimson Flower is Crimson Flower.
Isn't Dimitri literally not insane anymore at the end of Azure moon? That problem evaporated mid-plot.
@@lpfan4491 No, his confession ending specifically has him state he's still plagued by hallucinations. He just pinky swears hes not going to listen to them anymore.
Awakening > Three Houses
Not even in a parallel universe
Ah yes, that game where evil dragon is the cause of all bad things that happen and good guys has to kill it. Or am i confusing it with literally every other fire emblem game?
That actually hits the nail on the head for all but 3, maybe 4 games
lol, that's funny
don't let the haters get to you, spit your shit king
What we have to consider is that the Empire's revolt against the Church of Seiros was written long before Edelgard took the throne.
For the longest time, the relations with the Church were strained because Rhea sided against the Empire (her ally in the War of Heroes) in favour of the Kingdom during their war for independence.
She brokered a peace treaty between them, but only under the condition that Faerghus make the Church of Seiros their official religion, essentially ranking her above the king.
So the Empire loses a ton of land to the rebels (who were assisted by the Agarthans, Pan was Loog's tactician) and Rhea gives herself more power at their expense. All this after Wilhelm fought alongside her previously against Nemesis.
So Rhea, being the figurehead of the Church of Seiros, now has authority over both the Empire and the Kingdom, allowing her to rule unquestioned, as standing up to her would drag in the other nation (as evidenced in 3 Houses and especially in 3 Hopes, where Faerghus is unwillingly drawn into the war in the latter game, willingly joining in the former because of Dimitri's mental breakdown). She could literally disregard the laws of any nation and operate unimpeded and unquestioned, making the position of Emperor, King and the Alliance's roundtable nothing more than a figurehead. She also created the toxic society that revolved entirely around Crests and did not use her authority to chastise or rebuke nobles who abused their power and status, instead allowing the corruption to run rampant.
Rhea never truly cared for humanity, viewing them as ignorant and barbaric and unable to govern themselves. And when we consider that Sothis herself wasn't much better in 3 Hopes (having not lost her memory, she becomes much more authoritarian and ruthless, demanding that Byleth submit to her, which would completely erase Byleth's mind, effectively killing them, and she even preys on their fragile emotional state after Shez kills Jeralt, if you don't recruit them).
Also consider that Sothis was actually an invader, as she did NOT originate on Fodlan, having arrived from space. She establishes herself as a goddess and creates her own brood (the Nabateans), which was heavily implied to have overthrown the existing societal order and placed them above the native humans.
The way Rhea tells it is that Fodlan was a wasteland before Sothis arrived. However, Rhea has been known to lie about history in order to push the narrative that Sothis was a good goddess and the ultimate authority (thereby giving herself ultimate authority) and we also need to remember that Rhea was the youngest out of all the first generation Nabateans, meaning Sothis had already established herself by the time Rhea was born.
However, the existence of an Agarthan pantheon contradicts this, as an organized religion implies the existence of a functioning society prior to Sothis's arrival. So the claim that Fodlan was an empty wasteland and that Sothis was the progenitor of all life is completely false. Furthermore, her claim that they were wicked and sought power over Sothis could also be caused by her own bias, as she was very young when the massacre at Red Canyon occurred, and someone witnessing those events would likely draw that conclusion. However, as we've established, the Agarthan civilization was deposed by Sothis and the Nabateans, so it's highly likely they instead rebelled against the invader.
Remember, when Byleth sides against Rhea, she declares them all heretics and wicked souls, she doesn't hesitate to lambast them as pure evil and refuses to consider that she could ever be objectively wrong in her judgement. This is further exacerbated in Crimson Flower when she sets fire to the town, filled with innocents (shocking even Catherine, who is completely loyal to her).
So, what this all means is that, other than Those Who Slither in the Dark, Rhea is the single worst thing that ever happened to Fodlan and is the source of all the problems with their society, as she is the immortal tyrant that has ruled since the beginning of the Empire's history.
So whether or not you think Edelgard was justified in her war, it WAS necessary. She was never going to step down from her position, especially after her experiment fails, it was only her imprisonment during Azure Moon, Silver Snow and Verdant Wind that she does so, an imprisonment that would not have occurred were it not for Edelgard.
This is more evident in 3 Hopes, as she maintains her position as Archbishop in the Azure Storm ending, since Byleth never reaches Garreg Mach and Rhea never recruits them. In both Golden Wildfire and Crimson Blaze, she is removed from her position forcefully.
So yes, maybe the Empire falls, whether to infighting or becomes something different through societal change (maybe instead becoming a democratic nation), fundamentally, the outcome is still better than if Rhea remained in charge, as she stifled progress and change, something Claude points out.
Your video are wrong
No 👎
No 👎
You are wrong!
Your video are wrong
Stop being like a karen or ken/kevin
😠 😡 😤