Y'know, Edelgard's belief that the Church is upholding the Crest System despite the Slithers being the one that forcibly implanted a Crest in her could have been easily worked around if the writers just said the Slithers disguised themselves as clergy members while performing the experiments. They could have even had Edelgard recognize Solon as one of the people that experimented on her, cementing her belief that the Church was responsible because they were harboring one of the people who directly contributed to the darkest moment in her life
The church of Seiros IS upholding the Crest system, they teach that Crests are a gift from Sothis to discourage people from looking into it. However, to claim that a Crest is a sign of divine favour allows the nobility to run rampant and abuse the commoners because standing up to the nobles is like standing up to Sothis and the church. Rhea is the reason this ideology and rot is allowed to fester in society and she does nothing to correct it. So while it is the Agarthans who implanted her with her dual Crests, their methods and ideologies are completely different, which is why Edelgard makes use of them, as they are a faction that relies on science, not doctrine. Besides, Hubert himself says that Edelgard is essentially first in line to want retribution against Twsitd, but she has to be patient so that their objectives could be completed first.
@@nataliecoronado4206 pretty sure if the church happened upon the hresvelg dynasty being destroyed like that, rhea would have attacked with full force and captured and then subsequently execute the argarthans. But the real reason that they didn't have church disguises was because of the tensions and strained relations between the church and the empire. The empire had forcibly removed the church members and had created a new southern church.
@@valentinchappa6702 that is true, but many people in Adrestia, especially the noble class, still had a positive relationship with the Church of Seiros and regularly donated to it despite knowing about the attempted insurrection the Southern Church led over 100 years prior. Arundel was especially notable in this (obviously before he got snatched and replaced with Thales). 100 years is also plenty of time for relations between the Church and Adrestia's noble class to smooth over after that incident, even if it still remained strained with the royal family. So the idea that the nobles that led the Insurrection of the Seven could have welcomed members of the church into their plans (not knowing they were Slithers in disguise) is hardly unfounded
@@nataliecoronado4206 This would have just made her character reduced to a silly misunderstanding. The fact she decided to go after the church instead of revenge is something that's genuinely compelling, I remember taking a double take at that but upon further thought it's actually a pretty compelling part of her character.
The biggest challenge for Edelgard is that she’s trying to speed run a revolution. She’s almost definitely had her lifespan shortened by the experimentation on her like Lysithea, which limits how much time she has to enact change. She’d probably be more willing to do things at a slower and more peace pace, but if it doesn’t happen in her life time then she doesn’t think it’ll happen at all. Also considering how they kidnapped and experimented on her, I doubt she went to TWSITD entirely of her own volition, or that they just let her go so that they could negotiate a deal they both liked. I wouldn’t be shocked if she was kept under their thumb to groom her into a weapon. Ultimately she was able to get into a position where she had some degree of equal footing but it’s pretty clear that if they go down they will definitely throw her under the bus. The second thing that challenges her is that, similar to how Dimitri is ruled by his guilt complex, Edelgard is the embodiment of the sink cost fallacy. She looks at every step she makes and thinks “I’ve done too much to stop now” and forces herself to keep going. This is not a healthy mindset, but this is Fodlan and therapy hasn’t been invented yet. So the first step is losing her entire family and having a chunk of her life chopped off, and in between that she takes enough steps that continental war seems like a reasonable next step even if she doesn’t particularly like it or how she got there. But she’s come too far now, gotta sharpen that axe.
The shortened life thing that Lysithea has is cured by Linhardt in their paired ending so it’s reasonable to assume Linhardt does the same thing for Edelgard.
@@danieltobin4498 it's possible, but it ultimately requires the Empire to win the war, and for Lindhardt to marry Lys. Edelgard might survive the events, given the right circumstances, but they cannot be prevented.
Only Lysithea is confirmed to have the shortened life. At most, Edelgard's life is as long as an average peasant, just like her father and whatnot. That's the ultimate irony of her ending that I think most people miss; Edelgard realizing that she's NOT going to die promptly, or die gloriously in battle, and thus stepping down like her father.
5:49 There is that one Abyssal Library document that posits that King Klaus I was assassinated, and the whole will was a forgery, possibly orchestrated by the Agarthans. If so, that was probably one of their most successful ploys over the 1100 years between the Wat of Heroes and the game.
My problem with Edalgards plan is even if she builds the meritocratic system which she wants to, It will still be dominated and ran bypeople bearing crests. We know in universe crests make someone more powerful in both magic and physical ability, and she wants to build a system based off ability in an era of war that she is going to make. The people who naturally rise to the top in such times are those you are great warriors and generals, a majority of which are going to be crest bearers due to their innate advantage in that area, she might succeed in getting rid of the religious reasons for the crest system but she will renforce the practical reason of the system.
Though the crests cause problems unique to Edelgard’s case, I feel like this speaks to a problem with meritocracies in general. It’s a neat ideal worth striving for, but putting it into practice inevitably means imposing one on a nation that had been running under a different system. Meaning the social hierarchy has already settled and decided who’s at the top with better access to education and opportunities. Unless you work really hard to enforce it, the “meritocracy” is just gonna go right back to the old status quo, as the people who were on top before are better able to hone their skills and be on top in the new system. It’s a worthy ideal, but one that can’t survive reality; I can only see it working in a theoretical society that used a meritocracy from the outset with no other systems to crib from.
Edelgard should have fought against the _bias_ of the crests and not their _application_ in the world. In doing so she could show that while Crests _do_ make you more powerful, relying on them as an indicator of your position in the world is a doomed endeavor.
It's not dissimilar from how many democracies are made up of already rich people. Which probably also partly comes from peoples idea that they already need influence to be a part of politics. It's a general problem with systems that try to be equal. Since to make people equal you would need to take from others that are more privileged. But that could turn discriminatory too of course and begs the question of what exactly is the equal ground that should be enforced. Some laws that try to enforce equality ironically do affect lower or middle class people more than actual rich people.
I started with Verdant Wind and I will likely always see it as the more balanced option. The route that came in second for me was the one I played last, the Church route. I played Crimson Flower second, wanting to see the other side of this conflict, why Edelgard would start a war, why she would think trampling over every other nation for a reunification was a good idea, why committing a strategic suicide by starting a war on two fronts even happened… by the end I remained unconvinced and it remains my least favourite option. Something that really stuck in my craw was that from the very start Edelgard was trying to have Claude and Dimitri assassinated and that unfounded attempt to murder her peers (no matter how she might think they are otherwise) soured me on her when the reveal came. The irony then that Claude’s atypical cowardice/caution caused it to go awry and almost got her instead only softened that a little. Edit: I was wondering if BOOFIRE’s old videos prompted this line of inquiry. It hits many of the same notes.
I think a big point that had me like "El, what are you doing?" was in one of her supports with Ferdinand. Ferdinand is like "hey we wanna base people on merit but without changing anything, nobles are still gonna have the best opportunities, so why don't we have free schools?" And Edelgard was so surprised by this thought process that I couldn't help but wonder what her plan was after the war. Doesn't help that I'm a Dimitri loyalist and he called her out for something similar, that "not everyone is as strong as you" during their talk lol.
Two things are wrong here. One, Edelgard is not "surprised". She's intrigued by Ferdinand proposing it, but she's not shocked or surprised. Even without Ferdinand, Edelgard moves to try and educate the people, as indicated by Manuela/Hanneman's CF ending. Also, her support with Constance has her explain a bit more about her system. And finally, that Dimitri talk has Edelgard not be able to explain much of anything, but some moral debate. Not to mention that Edelgard scoffed at Dimitri calling her strong, when she herself doesn't think that at all.
@@0axis771 Yeah her support with Constance also has her talking about how the Emperor will personally appoint all the important members of the government as well as their successor. Absolute power at the top and they choose all the powerful people around them? At least with Monarchies the King/Queen doesn't personally choose all their nobles and has to make them happy, instead of just handpicking the most loyal. Whether she's shocked, surprised or "intrigued" it still means she hadn't thought of it before and likely wasn't going to anytime soon. She doesn't exactly have the best record of listening to advice even from her most trusted people. Hell even chapter 12/13 (don't remember which), when her emotions for Byleth would at their strongest she straight up loses support points if you say the name of her Black Eagles Strike Force is silly and then she keeps using it anyway. I can't imagine it being an easy process for Ferdinand to convince her of it when she has so much disdain for him. The Manuela/Hanneman CF ending has them running The Officers Academy. Y'know, the school specifically designed to bring up the next best Generals and Politicians. I don't think those are the education goals of a country that has the quality of life for their citizens as a major priority. And even then it's still a very small school for an entire continent to attend. Also, reading their ending, the Empire/Edelgard once again had no part in that very limited win. What it says is that "the Church was rehabilitated under the supervision of the Empire". So the religion was overhauled, and then some time AFTER that Hanneman and Manuela started up their own school. And that's just 1 paired ending. Dimitri explicitly asked for her reasoning and she goes off on tangents about her ideology, she's constantly deflecting and running off self imposed dogma. Not to mention just because someone thinks they aren't something doesn't mean they aren't. She's one of the strongest physically (looking at stats and feats) and she's super strong mentally for being able to go through a year of making close relationships all with the intentions of probably killing them one day and even just going through with her ambitions. Just because she has an inferiority complex doesn't mean she isn't basically a demi-god with a willpower strong enough to purposely set her close friends like Bernadetta on fire while still alive to achieve the slightest of strategic advantage.
@@gg_sam7847 If you actually watched the support, you'd realize how you're wrong about what you just said. Edelgard never said that she would make every decision. Yes, she absolutely CAN appoint people into power should they display the skill and ability, but at the same time, it isn't always determined by her. And even those that she does appoint is not something she appoints just because she wants those loyal, but those who are worthy of the position. Remember, Ferdinand's endings where he becomes the Prime Minister in CF is because he instituted reforms and policies that aided the people. He earned his position. Or if he's paired with Manuela, Manuela appointed the position because she was the one who performed the deeds that were recognized. Nitpicking about Edelgard having a childish fondness for the team name is...silly. Like, you're literally nitpicking there. The Manuela/Hanneman CF ending explicitly states that Garreg Mach was reformed to start teaching more "practical" subjects. Remember that Garreg Mach originally was just to teach people the art of war, but now it's teaching a broader range of subjects. With or without Ferdinand, Edelgarad still institutes education to people in Garreg Mach, which is also been reformed to accept more students. Now commoners can enter and receive an actual education, rather than just learning how to fight. So even without Ferdinand, education was always going be instituted by Edelgard regardless. And it has to start small, because as Constance stated, though nobles will still remain in power for the short term, in the long term process, the transition will change for the nobles to be replaced. No, Edelgard isn't deflecting. If anything, Dimitri is not the one allowing her to even give a proper explanation. He asks a question, and she tries to respond, but then Dimitri immediately argues back. Edelgard is the one constantly being forced to reply to Dimtiri jumping at her words as if everything she says is wrong so she has to keep being forced to respond back with little answers given. I don't know if this is just the devs not wanting to spoil Edelgard's reasoning cause split routes, or because this is Dimitri's story and thus he has to be the one morally right cause he had his redemption. Either way, Edelgard was not the one doing the deflecting here. Also, don't lie. At Gronder, Edelgard didn't set Bernie on fire. Her tile is the one place that never is touched. The flames are meant to protect Bernie. It's people like you and other haters who lie about the fire and insist that Edelgard wanted to kill Bernedetta. It's the most dishonest argument to this day.
I personally just really love the gag of Fodlan characters introducing things we take for granted as radical ideas, a similar thing happens when Hapi tells Yuri the earth is round and his mind is blown. Like imagine telling someone in fodlan the idea of public education, if anyone's thought of that idea they've probably been thrown in abyss for it.
It really just comes down to the same reason the Church itself had its failings and collapsed in the game, the foundation is built upon lies, the two factions, and leaders of those factions, are two sides of the same coin.
All good reasons but IMO you miss the biggest, simplest one - Crimson Flower is 95% Edelgard doing exactly what TWSITD want her to do, the 1 real exception being the attack agsinst Arianrhod, and well, we know how that ends. Even if she professes not to like it... she still DOES it, and that ends up with 1 single emperor ruling the entire Empire, an ascension which was orchestrated by a group of dubstep Albinos who specialize in assassination and body-doubling. Gee whiz, I wonder what their plan for Edelgard could possibly be now that she's the one with unilateral control over Fodlan? Never mind anything from 3 Hopes, which shows they could also keep Edelgard alive and just, turn her brain off basically. 3 Hopes also shows they just want pure chaos, which... yeah the fact that they support Edelgard only strengthens your theory that her empire isn't built to last, even if the moles don't directly step in afterwards to assume direct control. Lastly - maybe it could be argued murdering and replacing Edelgard would be tough for TWSITD. But what would be easy? Just replacing whoever's gonna replace her. There's your perfect, clean break for slipping an Agarthsn into power. You could do the switcheroo after the nee emperoris declared, or just kill and replace valuable subjects at random for years during Edelgard's rule, so that by the time she has to pick a new emperor, she's got a 90% chance of picking a sussy imposter. Or don't do anything because despite playing right into the hands of the people who are responsible for her darkest moments, despite handing them every possible advantage, Edelgard beats the Twist and Shouts off-screen during the credits, because this game has good writing guys I swear.
Yeah when I played 3H it was pretty obvious to me that CF would've led to the most unstable and chaotic ending for Fodlan. I really didn't like how all the ending things just went like "they all lived happily ever after The End". If all ends are the same, then Edelgard's means aren't justified
But the good endings of the other routed only take place because of the war. If Edelgard had not acted, everything would remain the same. If It werent for Edelgard actions, Rhea would never have left her position on non-CF routes, and nothing would have changed. So even when she looses the war, her actions bring the world she dreamt of, even if she doesnt live to know It in most routes
@@neopets666 I like more my idea of her as an anti-hero who starts the war so that someone more fitting can rise against her, than a mere tool of the mole people
Same! Though I like to think, even without that bias, that Verdant Wind offers the most complete picture of all the routes, even if it's still somewhat incomplete.
1. Only the Agarthans and the Church of Seiros even know what to do with it, or even comprehend what it is. The only real exception is Hanneman's BS Crest-detector made of stolen Agarthan tech. It would be like giving the Sumerians a car. 2. I am of the opinion that, due to the war with Those who Slither in the Dark being called a "shadow war", Byleth and Edelgard actually fail and their history is falsified. This allows the Slitherers to continue to exist, and run Fodlan. So I guess that THERE, there possibly COULD be a technological revolution, but still.
I'd like to point out one thing, if Byleth wasn't there in Three Houses, then more than just Edelgard would've died to Kostas. Claude and Dimitri might've also died.
Kostas would've killed Byleth, Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude, Rhea and Thales, going on to rule all of Fodlan as the undisputed king of all men. He later would go on to conquer all of Fodlan's enemies, and travel across all seas to plunder and raid the world for all eternity. Kostas best boy.
Honestly with the op nature of Dimitri’s crest Kostas was doomed to fail after edelgard. Claude’s life then depends on who he goes for first cause Claude would probably just ditch after edelgard
@@jonathanthompson4077 Plus doesn't Dimitri already have experience in battle‚ i.e. putting down a rebellion that was supposed to kill him‚ I think he should be fine against a few crestless bandits. (Unless the amount and quality of the bandits are scaled down in a gameplay vs. lore mismatch.)
Also Rhea made her „experiments“ from her own body, right? At least Byleths mom got to life a happy live So as bad as her trying to get Sothis back… it didnt seem like she did anything bad ro the „failures“
@@0axis771 Rhea is definitely not a good person but at "least" she didnt kidnap people from the street to try to put sothis in That's what i mean, she DID have her lines and Byleths mom got to live out her natural life even as "failure" Not saying Rhea didnt do bad, oop
@@Cheremia Live her life where? In Garreg Mach. Only in Garreg Mach and that's it. Sitri was never able to venture outside. There was no freedom. It's clear that while Sitri was happy, her happiness came when she was with Jeralt, and wanted to also venture outside one day, but never did. Hell, Sitri wasn't even given a burial. Rhea stashed her corpse in Abyss and goes down at times to look at her. Kinda creepy. Even with Byleth, while Byleth was made a teacher and can venture out, Byleth was ultimately directly working for Rhea and was to follow her instructions.
@@Cheremia They say that she had a weak constitution, but I highly doubt that she could have been so weak that there was absolutely no means that she couldn't have been able to leave the monastery. And like I said, it's super creepy that Rhea didn't even give Sitri a proper burial, but stashed her in Abyss to look at her on occasion.
I actually married Rhea on my first playthrough, because I'm a sucker for Cherami Leigh's characters. But it seemed like the best ending in terms of sheer stability for the continent. Two immortal--and more importantly benevolent--demigods keeping the peace for all eternity seems pretty nice. But in Edelgard's ending Byleth becomes mortal, and Edelgard has two crests, so I can't help but think that the moment they both die it's going to be chaos.
This is complicated in Sothis's S-support with Byleth, where she says that Byleth WILL die and that Sothis will go with her. I kinda imagine it in a God/Jesus Metaphor sorta way, where Sothis will reconnect with an underworld she hasn't been into but still be present in the real world, but still.
I still love pointing out to people that the first action we see in game from Edgelord is that she tries to kill Dimitri and Claude. And their first actions in game are to be such good guys that they won't leave her to die on her own, foiling her plot, and nearly getting her killed in her own plot to kill them. Still wish one of the timelines was one where her plan succeeded in getting all three of them killed, like Bylateral was just a little too late, so we watch the Bandit Lord kill Dimitri, Claude, and when Edelgard tries to turn into her alternate self, to show him she's the one who hired him, he cuts her down before it finishes. That would have been an interesting DLC/Timeline.
Aka the timeline where all nations gets pissy at the church for allowing three of their future state leaders to get killed, lol, Faerghus fucking explodes, the alliance is bickering among themselves probably, and the Empire is now run by the shadow government and corrupt nobility that makes Warhammer 40K politics look like an episode of the office, a little over-exaggeration but you get the point.
As I was playing through Scarlet Blaze recently, I too noticed that Edelgard was collecting enemies like Pokémon cards, and that she didn’t really do anything to endear herself to the one power who’d even entertain the thought of a partnership with her.
I dunno. I'd say that alongside gaining enemies, she was also making strong allies. Look at how she spared Lorenz's dad, who fully expected to be killed. Because of her actions, House Gloucester's people are happy and supportive of Edelgard, and Lorenz is more willing to support her because of this. Then there's also how Edelgard expresses why she won't abandon Lonato when he acts out. She wants people to know that if you support her, she will support and protect you in turn. Edelgard is definitely playing a delicate game of politics and is trying to ensure that she keeps a stable grip. And if anything goes awry, she deals with it quickly and swiftly.
Honestly I thought the same when I finished all routes in 3 Houses. I'm not done with 3 Hopes yet. All of the "and everyone was happily ever after" endings felt wrong to me, but especially in Crimson Flower it just felt... Improbable lol. Also I started with Golden Deer, but ended up adoring the Blue Lions instead. Go figure.
I will always be a Dimitri loyalist, and I can't believe I was robbed of my S support with him with my first playthrough as male Byleth, so apparently Dedue, Felix, and freaking Gilbert can get their endings with him but I can't?! Unacceptable... But alas I settled with Marianne having an ending with Dimitri and if I recall correctly, I S supported Shamir instead, sorry Catherine but well, you died so I don't care, never play Maddening as your first difficulty playthrough... It was won through blood, toil, sweat, and tears of losing Ashe, Dedue because it's his fault for not returning quickly so he ended up being expendable cannon fodder, Gilbert, and Catherine. RIP
@@chrisdiokno5600Don’t you deal with pretty much all the Agarthans in Blue Lions though? You just don’t know who they are or what they represent but you ending up taking out their group unintentionally? Or am I remembering wrong 😅
I was so frustrated in CF because no one questioned or criticized Edelgard and her actions. Edelgard almost didn't explained anything to anyone. Even with Byleth. So it was very interesting with CF!Felix. He was aware that he become exactly what he hated about Dimitri and his actions.
The biggest issue for Edelgard is that going the Crimson Eagle route , will guarantee a Yugoslav War like situation to happen in the future . Most likely spurned by the Dark Faction. Fodlan was able to keep together because of Rhea keeping the lie of Fodlan down for centuries while Edelgard wouldn't be able to . This is the tragedy of Edelgard , one who wants to make right past wrongs but goes about them in the worst ways possible which guarantee's future conflicts .
Doubtful. The thing is, look at how CF ended. With Rhea burning down the kingdom's capital. And the Empire saves the Kingdom's people as a result. And the fact that Edelgard clearly immediately attacks and destroys TWSITD after the Kingdom is brought down. In essence, there IS no dark faction to deal with. So if you basically have a situation where you destroy every dark faction, the people are now supportive of you for the help, then there's nothing to actually oppose you. There's a reason why Edelgard's route has several endings labeled "true peace" on there.
@@0axis771 "And the fact that Edelgard clearly immediately attacks and destroys TWSITD after the Kingdom is brought down" believe it or not, I don't believe the post ending scrawl on this since they are in theory at their strongest here since they were mostly left alone. Nemesis doesn't just roll over and die.
@@uberculex No, they aren't at their strongest. You know why? Because no Dukedom, her friends are with her to stabilize the Empire, and her allies are the ones occupying the conquered nation. No political or military power was actually gained because Edelgard minimized their military growth. And Cornelia dies and they used the javelins too soon. And if you played that auxiliary mission, it's revealed that Edelgard has been sending Jeritza on covert missions to destroy Agarthan bases. Meaning that TWSITD actually don't get nearly as much power as you think they do.
Most of her paired endings reveal that she retires from the position of emperor and appoints someone else. So the Empire doesn't just fall apart after she dies. The whole point of establishing a meritocracy is to avoid precisely that.
Which doesnt make much sense considering the person who did the most is likely someone with a crest like Ferdinand, which would further cause issues with the plan in the longhaul. Then, if you assume it can't be someone with a crest, that really only leaves Caspar, who while great, clearly cant lead squat. Then, anyone else unnamed could be easily puppeteer'd, especially when you consider how unlikely it is a shadow war would remove all the Agarthans from the playing field. @LAZERAK47V2
@@LAZERAK47V2 Reminder People with crests are actually stronger and better than people who don't have them. This doesn't come up much in gameplay, but, remember; Raphael is like, a BIG guy, and Dimitri is mentioned as being several times stronger than him despite being pretty weedy, because he has a Crest, but Raphael doesn't. People with crests are just better than people who don't. Maybe that sucks, but them's the breaks. If two otherwise equal people are in a competition, the one with a crest will win. This also means people with crests will be much more well rounded, because they don't need to hyperfixate on one or two areas of specificity. Her meritocracy will almost immediately revert back to being crest dominated, unless she is present to aggressively and forcefully convince everyone what merit means to her, which will logically end the moment she's not around to bend the definition of meritocracy in weird ways. Because she is an insane smoothbrain dictator who logically is getting assassinated within the year, probably by someone who is nominally an ally, and can build an actual government off the back of "I got her"
@@chrisdiokno5600 That doesn't mean much if the only reason people are following her lead is so she doesn't toss em onto the ungodly amount of bodies she had to cut down to make the boat float on a river of blood.
I feel like Edelgard actually does have a good shot at wining in the no Byleth scenario. If only due to the fact that her willingness to use demonic beasts and the other nations lack of Byleth gives her forces a big enough advantage to more than offset how taxing fighting a war on two fronts is. Hell that’s part of why she was wining the war before Byleth woke back up in the non crimson flower routes. Though yeah she does definitely have her work cut out her attempting to keep things stable after word lmao.
There is also the fact a meritocracy wouldn’t work in fodlan because 1. Meirt is deeply subjective person to person which makes it extremely fragile and it also doesn’t prevent nepotism since Nobles could just simply choose their children as their hierarchy, 2. Meritocracy massively favor those with time and resources and often it nobles who where simply born with land and since Edelgard doesn’t do anything to even out and 3. Crest are a form of merit, people put value onto them and they get results, hell Edelgard proves that crest are valuable if she wins the war since she had two! So her solution to the problem is the same problem. There is also the fact that Edelgard society would be based on a lie as well since she sided with the Agarthans (Who by the way, are actual reason why Fodlan is messed up) by her own choice, framed Rhea. What would happen if people had found out what Edelgard did, they probably call her a hypocrite and consider her society bullshit.
1) Free education fixes that. 2) Again, free education fixes that. A lot of nobles we see are shown to be extremely incompetent and just got their position simply because they were born into it, not because they worked for it. 3) Crests are ONLY good for military purposes, not governing positions. This was brought up by Lindhardt. Merit is not dictated by those who are strong by military prowess but by the skill, intelligence, and other factors that allow them to be able to govern lands. And even in terms of military prowess, it's still not a guarantee, given characters like Caspar, Hubert, Dorothea, and other people who have no Crests but have so much skill and prowess in their abilities. And her society isn't based on a lie. TWSITD is eradicated after the war, but more than that, Rhea has been the one who lied to society and based it around those lies. People are made to follow her false religion and ultimately set her people on the rulers of said religion, and Rhea even considers her position to be what leads Fodlan, hence why she wants Byleth, the vessel for Sothis, to take charge. Ultimately, Edelgard's society does have a good chance of success for a time. No routes have a truly guaranteed future. But Edelgard's gives free education, open borders, and eradicates the absolute evil group. So ultimately, it gives the most freedom and chances for people and no longer have the threat of a dark group behind the scenes.
@@0axis771 1. Merit is still an opinion that people can make even with education. 2. Did Casper and Hubert really get their jobs through merit or was it because they belonged to already an established family that had ties to the empire? Edelgard also promotes a selection, not an election, something you criticize Rhea for choosing Byleth for. Hell, even Edelgard doesn’t pass this since she was literally born as a princess of the empire. It’s easier to get skills and education when you born with an advantage than others. 3. Yes it is based on a lie, Edelgard framed Rhea for the crimes of the Agarthans. All the problem in Fodlan lead directly back to the Agarthans and in a lot of cases Rhea was forced to do this. Edelgard did have a choice, multiple ones and she choose the worst one. At least Dimitri creates a more democrac council to listen to people and Claude actually opens up Fodlan. We also have reason to believe in Edelgard ending about destroying the Agarthans, she is a known unreliable narrator and at least in the other routes, you actually see the defeat of the Agarthans.
@@MrSupersmash93 1) No, it isn't. Education is education. People who are the most brilliant will ultimately stand out, and being a noble means nothing because now you aren't promised anything unless you put in hard work. 2) First of all, this is a bad take. You are saying the equivalent of, "You argue about society, but you live in it." Edelgard wants to change the system, but right now, she needs to use the system to her advantage before making the changes. It's something Edelgard herself acknowledges that she has to do so far until the changes can be made. Second, Edelgard judges by character, not stations. Hubert's father was in the station to protect and serve, but betrayed. Hubert remains loyal. And Caspar's whole story is that he is promised nothing for lacking a Crest. He legit has to make a name for himself through his own merit. 3) Oh wow, this is just...so wrong. Edelgard did not frame Rhea for everything TWSITD did. The ONLY one you've got on that was what happened to Arianrhod, but that's one event vs. your argument that is you saying that Edelgard is framing Rhea for the "crimes". Also, no. Dimitri did NOT create anything resembling democracy. Or even a council. And Edelgard also opens up borders, both from her thing with Petra, and her own paralogue where she says that she intends to open borders to Almyra as well. And no, there's no unreliable narrator. Several endings confirm their defeat, even using the phrase "true peace" to describe it, which is missing from other routes, with Jeritza outright saying they are gone for good. I'm sorry, but more than half your arguments come from bad faith and is projecting false information here.
@@0axis771 1. That’s total bullshit, look at our own society, we still choose the worst people, all who come from political dynasty and rich pricks to lead us which is no different from and we still have the Gaul to call ourselves a meritocracy? Get out of 2. But she really doesn’t, why conquer Fodlan and bring back the empire in the first place, why not just stick to her and make her ‘Changes’ in her region? She just a conqueror who just wants power because she experienced a loss of power. Oh yeah she has a great fucking judge of character, not siding with ethier Claude or Dimitri and instead siding with the very people who hurt her, calling Rhea’s people monster and never trying to get their side of the story, feeling sorry for Miklan the guy who was kick out not because he didn’t have a crest but because he tried to kill Slyvain twice and probably wouldn’t become a bandit if he just nothing. And again did Casper and Hubert get their jobs because of their names or their work, that the problem with merit. 3. Then why make the war with Agarthans a secret, why not expose them and tell the truth? Why is she basically covering them and solely focusing on the church? Also Edelgard perspective of the history of Fodlan straight up contradicts the actual lore of Three House, she believed Sothis and Nemesis were lovers and that Rhea killed her mother because of that. Also she kills/ banishes the one person who could have help with Almyra, Claude. Also you wrong about Dimitri not creating anything to help, this is from his ending “He was Known for listening intently to the voices of all, and for INSTITUTING a new form government in which the people free to be active participants” this sounds more like a democracy than Edelgard selection process.
@@MrSupersmash93 1) That sounds like you having a problem with today's society, which I don't deny is slowly breaking apart, but that's not really here nor there. In no way changes that how the system of Edelgard's with free education is set up is that people who are shown to be actually brilliant will be the ones to have the chance to be elevated. Nobles no longer have the power to suddenly gain these benefits without putting in work. So my point doesn't change. 2) It's already explained. Her war is with the Church, and ultimately, the other nations have the Church influence. The "Holy" Kingdom is very much supportive of the Church. And the Alliance, while a bit more neutral, still have Church faithfuls. 3Hopes does a good job showing that fighting the Church DOES ultimately involve the other two nations. So Edelgard conquering the other nations is ultimately becomes necessary. Also, Edelgard doesn't side with TWSITD. She hates them and wants them gone. But in 3H, she never got the chance to break away from them until after the war, and when she does, she destroys them completely. 3H straight up shows Edelgard TRYING to talk to Claude in VW, but Claude ultimately refuses to answer anything and Dimitri is ultimately proven to be loyal to the Church, proven by 3Hopes. Not to mention how Rhea literally is unwilling to ever talk until Rhea finally feels remorse in Part 2 in the other routes, but until Rhea realizes how she was wrong, Rhea refuses to ever divulge. Once again, proven in the story. No, Miklan was kicked out for the stated reason of not having a crest. Any indication that he was kicked out for trying to kill Sylvain is pure headcanon from you and others. Hell, 3Hopes literally tries to prove this when Dimitri recruits Miklan and makes him serve, trying to give him redemption. And as I pointed out, Caspar DID get his job through work, not station. Because he was literally promised nothing for lack of a Crest. Hubert is a different case, but still proving my point. 3) How do you explain to people that there are a secret mole men that have been doing horrible shit behind the scenes and can take people's faces? There's no way to expose them or prove their existence. That's why they are always having to be taken care of from the shadows. No proof of their existence can be fully exposed. I think that's self-explanatory. It'd be like saying that the Illuminati exists IRL. Also, now you're 100% proving that you didn't pay attention. Sothis and Nemesis was never stated to be lovers by Edelgard. Not once. I have no idea who gave you that headcanon, but you clearly did NOT pay attention to the story or you have been getting your information from Edelgard haters or something. Your info is now starting to be absurd on so many levels. Edelgard letting Claude go and having him in her debt only helps support her efforts to negotiate with Almyra. Fact is, Edelgard straight up states that she intends to open borders if you played her paralogue or even saw her support with Petra. And no, I can already prove to you that Dimitri did NOT create a democracy, because it's literally stated in his and Annette's ending that what his government is that of a DYNASTY. Dimitri didn't create a council or a democracy. The Kingdom is still a dynasty, and there are still nobles ultimately, proven by the many endings shown. You are like other Blue Lion fans who took that ending and wanted to insist that it was the absolute best thing, while hearing Edelgard say "merit" and insisting that it's a meritocracy. Despite how the term was never used to define her government. A very unfaithful argument that I've heard for years. ==== Listen, this argument has gotten EXTREMELY long, and your arguments are rooted in bad faith. You have clearly not played the game enough, or read the supports, or got wrong info from other people. I recommend that you try to get your facts straight and maybe come with a shorter argument from this point on. I'd rather not waste so much time on this.
I read this medium article on how the imagery of three houses paints edelgard as a walking red flag that westerners miss because they don't understand Eastern philosophy.
I think too many westerners (note, I live in the west, too) view the church of Seiros as the Catholic church and thus hate it by default. they fail to understand the eastern philosophy involved, unfortunately. the Seiros faith became an instant scapegoat for real world church haters b/c understandably, real world churches do suck lmao
My first route was Crimson Flower, but I found myself disagreeing with her very early on in White Clouds. I wanted to see it through though, but the ending where we killed Rhea left a bitter taste in my mouth. My favorite route was Verdant Wind. I could easily identify my own ideals within Claude. The solutions presented in VW also just made the most sense as they get to the roots of the problems that have swirled around Fodlan, namely the xenophobia, false history, and isolationism to name a few. It's the closest thing to a golden ending imo. It's why I can maintain that Claude was right, but Golden Wildfire showed us that without the development he earns in VW, he can never grow past his wrong ways
Golden Wildfire is the worst route because while we saw Claude's more tactical side, it came at the cost of his wisdom/maturity because Three Houses Claude isn't nearly this stupid about Rhea, and none of the changes in the Hopes timeline justified how much less nuanced his views of Fódlan's issues are. Azure Gleam is the best route because it took on the worldbuilding role that Verdant Wind previously held, and Dimitri got to show his more tactical side, but also a bit more of his political knowhow and understanding of the true nature of his power.
Thing about Claude in houses is, it’s kinda hard to deny Jesus exists when they are leading your army. No Byleth means no living proof to Claude that the church is full of it.
@@personontheinternet2164 My problem is more that Hopes Claude shows no curiosity beyond the bare minimum even though that was an established trait of his from the beginning in White Clouds. Instead, he just chose to take Edelgard at her word because it suited his immediate goals with no further introspection.
I understand why they wanted us to play as all the advertised lords, but the way they bend over backwards trying to make Edelgard a hero in her own route just does not work. Her role is so clearly intended to be villainous as the invading party that it just feels nonsensical trying to make the player feel justified in anything that they're doing. None of it ever feels right. I played Blue Lions first, so naturally I tend to favor that route more than the others, but even Verdant Wind as a story is something I can get behind. There's nothing in Edelgard's route that I can make sense of. It would have been one thing if they were pushing her as the evil route but the idea of the tyrannical dictator being the supposed good guy in the end is something that has never sat well with me.
Edelgard's route is about breaking through the status quo. The way the world functioned clearly wasn't right. Aside from the whole "world is ruled by lizard people" thing it was clear that the Crest system was extremely discriminatory and harmful. It's more of a "for the greater good" type of story. Though I wish they developed it a bit more, not sure why CF was so short compared to the other routes. Even the Agarthans were defeated off-screen in the epilogue.
I think it's more you balance her out so she doesn't become a full blown tyrant, and instead she wants a united Fodlan that gets rid of their Crest focused society, where people can rise or fall on their own merits
@@chrisdiokno5600 However, in a stunning show of utter stupidity, her merit based society will become dominated by people with crests again almost immediately. Remember, crests are literally superpowers. It's easy to forget since most of them do basically nothing in gameplay, but, if you take two equal people, then give one a crest, the one with the crest becomes much, much stronger. All she's done is remove the formal rule, but not changed the actual result of that rule.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 yah, her system's is the same as ASHNARDS for crying out loud. In addition, the crest system was only put in place out of perceived necessety... not even RHEA likes it, the descendants of the ones that killed her family exalted with those sins swept under the rug? but she keeps it cause she doesn't want a witch hunt against them. In other words if Edelgard just TALKED with Rhea or Hanneman or Claude or Linhardt etc. she'd realize there were plenty of diplomatic solutions that didn't involve a massive war even siding with the dubstep cult to make it happen y'know the people who killed their family The church was just not evil enough to remotely justify her war
I feel like they should've made the church more morally grey maybe even fold the dubstep cult into them then Edelgard would have more of a motive to destroy them and better highlight the choice between the different approaches to fixing things. But nope... they kinda did almost nothing wrong and could have been dealt with via discussion rather than... violent overthrow (besides not like the crest system was mandated by the church plenty of places didn't place inheritance over crests so it more feels like the issues are more on an area by area basis) Edelgard's war: completely unnecessary and fixes nothing in the long term
Once I learned that Edelgard says in a tea party conversation that she plans on disinheriting her entire family (if she has one) and just handing off the Empire to a random person she likes, I realized that she really didn't put any thought into this. MOST empires decline or collapse due to a succession crisis, or due to envy over different factions being left out of succession. The reason we switched from elective monarchies to hereditary/dynastic monarchies was that everyone knew who was going to be the next ruler, and that no one could REALLY change it. Then there's the issue of "what even IS a meritocratic monarchy", raised by there being absolutely no way a society without the printing press or the Internet can do mass vote-tallying. She makes any sort of democracy harder by abolishing the nobility, when traditionally it was the nobles who voted. But sure, we can't have an actually functional elective monarchy, because the Seven voted on who would get what position after teabagging her father.
th-cam.com/video/uJij5YuvjPg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=5VFBVlaesb5IxOX3&t=254 From what I've seen fan translators talk about, the Church of Serios' obvious hypocrisy of "don't be a jerk unless we tell you" was something added in by the English translation. Literally, the book talking about the Church's doctrine is actually longer in the English version and includes stuff like that. In the Japanese version there is no hypocrisy in the Church's position, which... Honestly, that just makes me want to finish up my Japanese studies even faster, because while it might just be small one-sentence changes done by the localization team those small changes have HUGE implications that have seriously damaged the discourse around the game in the English-speaking internet.
My first route was Crimson Flower, same with my roommate who played it around the same time. We both felt like a poorly written cartoon villain the entire way through tho. Could not vibe with that route at all. I was about to never pick the game up again because I thought it was so bad (my roomate never even finished it), but then I read about Azure Moon online and decided to try that one. And I've been in love with the Blue Lions and Fodlan ever since.
Imagine if instead of being forced to open trade by the US and realizing by themselves that the noble classes and samurai were wrong and it was time to completely redo their system. Japan was forced to change by the US through a violent war. That's the crimson flower route. Won't work at all
This was a fun watch! I'm a big CF/SB fan but you bring solid points of scrutiny overall. That being said, there is very little evidence that the sneaky molepeople are responsible for the super secretive Imperial version of history as all points their infiltration in the Empire as it's currently known is a very recent development overall (otherwise you would think the Imperiam family would have turned against the Church a heckton sooner). What the game and even many developer interviews suggests is that, while Wilhelm was Rhea's biggest ally against Nemesis, dude was never told by Rhea *why* she hated Nemesis guts so much to the point of establishing a massive smear campaign against him with the intention of gaining an army she needed to kick his ass (which is perfectly understandable given what Nemesis and co. did with dragons once the dubsteppers leaked the secret that dragon bodies could be harvested for weapons and superpowers). As a matter of fact, Nemesis' Class description straight up stating that he waged war against Seiros under an argument that can be summed up as "I'll free you all from that witch's lies!" all but states that poor Wilhelm more or less had to come up to his own conclusions given dragons were blatantly aiding his war against Nemesis and all.
I genuinely think fans who like Edelgard will defend the empire despite how they would never defend said empire for what it does in any other circumstance. it's Edelgard they like and this is simply her homeland thus they feel the need to defend it. but "evil empire with fascist, imperialist goals who declares war to regain lost territory and annex foreign nations" is so bad in every fiction that it's ironic Edelgard fans will defend it just cuz they like her and thus feel the need to defend anything that connects with her.
People liking edelgard but hating on hitler will always be funny to me. They both basically the same type but edelgard is more likeable bc anime women pretty
I finished crimson flower first then played all the other routes and slowly realized how insane Edel is. Siding with an organization that dropped nukes is not it.
I personally think Crimson Flower is the victim of bad/rushed writing. There are many issues with the plot that are covered up by lazy and quick bits of information
I view Edelgard as a female version of Ulfric Stormcloak from TES V. Both are very charismatic leaders, but are also woefully short-sighted war mongerers. But at least I'll give Ulfric this, at least he only waged war with the Imperials in Skyrim, and not the entire remaining territories of the Empire. Edelgard took "I'd rather betray the world than be betrayed by it" to heart from the looks of it.
Ulfric is literally dimitri. A traumatized soldier who stands opposed to the empire using conservatism to rally his forces with a grudge against the empire.
@@firenze6478honestly Dimitri’s ending also seems like it would be Ulfrics perfect ending. An empire united by the old system while kinda reforming it and ready to take on outside threats
Faerghus and King Loog didn't receive help from the Agarthan's when they rebelled against Adrestia. The Kingdom had the most relic weapons so they wouldn't need it. That's basically just propaganda from Hubert found the in the Abyss Library that Linhardt tells you to take with a grain of salt.
Except they did. The literal fact that Ferdinand read about Pan, a mysterious figure that helped Loog, and how this rebellion actually ended up weakening the Empire and causing problems with the Church, and learning about the new relics like Balthus's paralogue, it's pretty evident that TWSITD were Loog's benefactors.
@@0axis771 There's nothing saying that Pan was a Slither and that King Loog received helped from them outside of the propaganda that Hubert is seen spreading in the Abyss and that NPCs living there comment on. Again, even Linhardt tells you that most of this stuff is probably fake. Hubert is the only one who uses the term TWSITD. Pan is also a historical figure so Ferdinand bringing him up once isn't damning either.
@@emmastokes64 Stop pushing the headcanon that the book was written by Hubert. Hubert was never in the Abyss library for that book to even exist. Linhardt doesn't speak the absolute truth. Linhardt himself does not know everything. He assumes that these are fake cause he simply doesn't believe in them. However, the books that talk about the notion that Loog was able to somehow get a large enough army to rebel without the Empire noticing, having new Relics which are supported by Balthus's paralogue when he mentioned the history of his Relic, and the fact that Ferdinand mentions that Pan is a figure that is not well known, only supports more about how this WAS TWSITD-involved. The book revealing Pan being an Agarthan only makes sense why Pan would want to not be well known in history.
@@0axis771 It's not headcanon lol. You literally get told Hubert is in the Abyss spreading propaganda and also see other Adrestian's like the Death Knight and Metodey terrorizing the people living there. The actual headcanon is that Pan was a Slither and that Loog got help from them. The biggest red flag that shows that's not true is that Hubert is the only one who calls them "Those Who Slither In The Dark" which is the term the propaganda book uses. The Cindered Shadows DLC was a big red herring to bait Edelgard fans into thinking the church is super evil but they took the bait and it ended up not being true
On Combat At Tailtean Plains in crimson flower Dedue gives the soldiers crest stones that he found in the castle vaults and Dimitri gets upset at him for him because clearly he knows probably one of those things that’s passed down from to king to king. This conversation triggers if you don’t defeat the Paladin that’s in front of Sylvain on that map and he transforms into a demonic beast. Not to mention the obvious that adrestia was still the Agarthans enemy and they wanted to destabilize the empire so that it’ll be easier to divide and conquer which is what they ended up doing in present day by infiltrating and taking over the empire and kingdom and they almost did it with the alliance by pretending to be someone from house Gloucester and setting up Claude’s uncle and the heir to be killed, but they didn’t count on lady Tiana being In almyra and Claude coming to the picture.
Maybe a video on your favorite FE Three Houses lords? Also, Wilhelm’s account is more likely a result of not being aware of the whole Zanado-fueled vengeance or the Nabateans vs. Agarthan blood feud it stemmed from. His account is more likely an honest BUT VERY IMCOMPLETE account of what was going on. And it wouldn’t have mattered if Edelgard had the full story because for her, the system the Church held up was the problem. She might somewhat understand why Rhea did what she did but it doesn’t change what she created. Also, in regards to the scapegoating of the people of Duscur, Arundel (Thales in disguise) and Cornelia (Cleobulus in disguise) were the ones basically in charge of investigating the matter (for lack of a better term) so they had a vested interest in dismissing Dimitri’s account.
Despite what the video may suggest, Edelgard is one of my favorite characters. Although, Claude is still the best lord (due to Three Hopes, more debatable if we're just considering Three Houses). I can *kinda* see that about Wilhelm, but Three Hopes seems to suggest a closer relationship between the Saints and Wilhelm than just that. Although that is speculation, I admit. As for the scapegoating of Duscur, I was more speaking towards the Kingdom as a whole. Not a single lord or noble took what Dimitri was saying seriously? Even to the point that Ingrid, one of Dimitri's closest friends doesn't believe it at first? Sounds like more than just Arundel, Cornelia, or Rufus covering things up.
@@TheHearthGuy Never said you did. Always was a Dimitri guy myself. Best character and Dimileth is one of the handful of pairings I have any strong opinion on. I can still see the other sides, or at least I try to. Eh, close or not, I doubt Rhea would share that part given how painful it was. She didn’t reveal the truth to Claude and Byleth in GW about it until she was forced to by Nemesis making an unwanted (for Fodlan) return. Hell, she doesn’t even mention it to Byleth in SS. Tbf, there were already tensions between Duscur and Faerghus. Hell, the entourage was heading to Duscur to make peace. The disguised Argarthans and Rufus could easily frame it as Duscur attacking under false pretenses. Plus, a few scattered groups of Duscur men were used as scouts by the attackers which made it easier for them to fool people. I assume most people assumed his memory was affected by his trauma. Plus, among those we do know who didn’t buy it (like Sylvain), there wasn’t anything they could do about it at that time.
@@stevenchoza6391 I am a Dimitri fan, especially considering he gets, well, really the only arc between the lords in Houses. I can see you point about Rhea, although I could have sworn she or someone else told Byleth some version of the story in SS. And you make solid points about the Tragedy being a set up for the people of Duscur.
One thing that actually took me the longest time to find out in this game. Her route has her state, outright, that it's the jerks who experimented on her(and some would argue she's not SURE they're the ones...but by the time she starts her revolution, she KNOWS it, and is pretty open about it to Byleth) are the ones who convinced her of the church's evil. But...she has zero reason to trust them. So did she EVER have any corroborations of their statements? Like, you could say she can just look out her window and see them, but you really can't, as it's the Crest system, and the oppressions she's against. Neither element is solely the church that's at fault, and in fact, her own empire is the worst at both. Now, some took that to mean I was already against her...and to be fair I was, and dismissed it as bashing her, but I was VERY much looking for a reason to trust her, to see her as being in the right. And to be fair, she DOES have one piece of evidence that says the Jerks who Slipper in the Dank are in the right. A diary by her...I want to say grandfather but it's been a while. It's brought up in one of her conversations with her man number two. Now, that IS a reason, though flimsy, at least it's there. And again, she WANTS the jerks to be right, since if they aren't, then she's wasted her precious life on a plan that not only works against her own interests, but has killed people she pretended to love...I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt in some ways, but her actions mean any 'love' she expresses, even to Bilateral, is a lie.
This video is fantastic and outlines every reason I feel like Edelgard is going to fail sooner or later. Three Houses/Hopes has absolutely led to both the best and worst discussion I've seen in the fandom, I think it might actually be more divisive than Fates was in its day.
My first route was accidental silver snow and even on normal i learned to hate the church not cuz of story but because of the final boss lol but if i had to pick which lord ending i prefer its dimitri, because it seems more like dimitri would cooperate with outside world given his retainer is from Duscur it would be slow but i think that change is far more stable than claude which just opens the border unconditionally which i think would cause more of a rift than help even tho i think claude means well.
And between their desired reforms, I'd say Dimitri's desire for a more represantative government is a lot more sensible idea over Edelgard's desire to steamroll over every foundation of the current system. As vague as his own plans are, at least Dimitri has no interest or desire to fully destroy the system he wants to reform. As he knows the reforms he wants will probably take so long to implement he'll probably be long dead after they're done. Edelgard wants Fodlan and the Empire to be the way she wants it to be today. She has no patience or long-term idea in how to build-up her reforms properly outside of destroying any and all opposition to her plans and ambitions.
Love the video, small disagreements here and there but just want to compliment the quality of everything. My main issue is that in Manuela's support Edelgard says she's fine with keeping the religion, just not the Church itself. And with Byleth having the Sword of the Creator the religion itself could come back as a unifying force, just not in the same, political, way. Also think you kind of underplayed just how powerful Byleth is, Byleth alone can keep literal armies down alone. That being said these ONLY apply to Crimson Flower, where she has Byleth's raw power and the Sword of the Creator as a rallying point.
if ya'll internet people got teleported into the Fire Emblem Three Houses or The Hopes timeline, how would ya'll choose which fation to side with? i'd probably go with a "which faction gives me maximum personal gains" policy myself.
Id just try not to die, trade knowledge of modern technology to anyone willing to protect me from those who sizzle in the hizzle. Assuming I can even understand Fodlanese
@@vinsonli302 you’d attract their attention to the fact that another being from beyond the stars with unimaginable technology has just arrived in their world
@@capadociaash8003 true, but there's a possibility that negotiating with them could grant a better standard of living for ones self in their world and improve the standard of living for their world in general in the process.
Perhaps for most the first playthrough would colour the view. But I went in with the mindset of "best for last" and started with crimson flower. I was biased for the blue lions from the very beginning based only on trailers and other prior information
In terms of the balance of power in Edelgard's routes, I do believe that while rebellions are likely they are much less dangerous than the prior instances that gave rise to the non-Adrestian polities to begin with, and the reason lies in the main difference between Fodlan's feudalism and the real-world kind: the nobles really are All That TM in Fodlan. Faerghus has a horrible climate and no riches to speak of, but what it does have in abundance is Elite Crests left over from Nemesis. With the power of dragon blood and dragon bone (seriously, Seiros, you had centuries to clean that junk up), the northerners can punch well above their weight class. Adrestia can only hold on against them in a straight fight because it has an overwhelming manpower advantage, and if the Kingdom gets its shit together and fields its big hitters as a single solid core Adrestia can forget about winning. Which is why, crucially, Edelgard's plans always involved an element of treachery within the Kingdom, whether through Cornelia's coup in Three Houses or through mass defections in Mach in Three Hopes. Notably, these plans are big gambles and do in fact go awry in Edelgard's routes (through Rhea going to Fhirdiad and/or Thales pulling away support in CF, and through Leeroy Lonato in SB), requiring Anime Protagonist Intervention to salvage. By the end of Edelgard's routes in either game the nobles of Faerghus are in disarray. Crimson Flower involves the death of Rodrigue, Ingrid (if unrecruited), Dimitri, and Gustave, permanently taking the Relics of their houses off the board. Similarly, Three Hopes involves a massacre of the central Faerghus nobility in Chapter 11. Claude's betrayal is itself not necessarily catastrophic. While there was tension between the Empire and the Alliance, that doesn't mean that the Alliance was united in its opposition to the Empire. Indeed, House Gloucester wouldn't join Claude's new rebellion under any circumstance, Lysithea outright supports unification, and Edmund's position is rather unclear. Even if Claude escapes Aillel, the Empire's victory there is decisive and will send a strong message to Leicester that will discourage their strongest warriors from properly rallying. I wouldn't even bet on Holst throwing in with Claude there, and would actually bet against Holst resisting further if Claude dies. That is, in the end, the main point of Edelgard's war plans. The objective isn't just to take over, it is also to bleed the Crested nobility to the point of breaking their ability to mount effective resistance. The shadow war with the Agarthans in CF is unlikely to be a big drain either, as the very presence of the Javelins of Light means that realistically the only way for that war to go is for an overwhelming attack on Shambhala to occur pretty much immediately after the fall of Fhirdiad, something that the destruction of Arianrhod can enable by providing the trail for the Javelins. While the reforms themselves are an administrative challenge that was never attempted in Fodlan's entire history (what with Rhea basically adopting Nemesis's system whole cloth), the military component is not the likely point of failure. Now, to be as fair and balanced as my Edelgard-supporting self can be, I do not give Edelgard good chances in a no-intervention scenario. While the sheer divergence between Houses and Hopes shows that there was a wealth of opportunity for things to deviate wildly in 1180, Edelgard's war plans were always long shots that depended on her enemies not being at their best, and indeed mostly revolved around moving her enemies on all sides into each other's way to have them sort themselves out without requiring her to apply the very limited resources that she considered actually reliable. Indeed, the only thing that stops me from saying that the Agarthans have the advantage there overall is their own comical ineptitude (and lack of defined endgame).
Plus, it's arguably the prescence of Byleth that tempers her from going far off the deep end. Plus, IIRC, her goal is to end the Crest System, and kick off a meritocracy
as an edelgard stan, i totally agree. having a good understanding of large scale issues and intending to fix them all within your (brief) lifetime kind of _inherently_ leads to a situation where even amoral pragmatism won't save you from having to fight an endless, nearly unwinnable war of attrition-- something that edelgard herself is tactically, mentally and morally prepared for, but it doesn't become less true just because she's self-aware the fact that, short of literal divine intervention, she's effectively an underdog despite being the autocrat of the continent's largest empire is a big part of what makes her so compelling. helping a hopeless revolutionary actually achieve her goals is very appealing as far as shameless power fantasies are concerned, but i also like her in the other routes where the more realistic thing happens and she ends up dying with a lot of blood on her hands and even more unaccomplished goals
I played dimitri house first and think that every leader is correct in their views despite their flaws. Now to address some things from the video: 12:04 japan went through a period like this just fine, a couple of rebellions by the "old guard" who were upset at the restructuring of society which resulted in a couple of tens/hundreds of thousands dead but propelled japan from feudal society to industrialized great power 13:46 m!byleth will take over as regent until his and edelgards child is old enough to take the throne after which byleth will become the new archbishop 16:09 mongols fought multiple countries at the same time during their invasions of europe, subutai was just that good. Fighting on multiple fronts is basically an everyday occurence in any total war game on higher difficulty. Also since edelgard wants a crestless society she achieves her goals even in the routes in which she dies.
It wouldn't be the same without Billy Kametz as Ferdinand... Gone too soon... But I agree, a rewrite would be nice, but after that, bury it to the ground to finally put it to rest.
As someone familiar with historical revolutions like the ones in France and Russia, there is at least the chance that Adestria will be reformed after Edelgard is done driving it to the ground... But *only* after a huge fuck-off civil war that engulfs the entire continent, resulting in either fragmentation that puts all of Fódlan back to square one, or a Yugoslavia scenario where multiple ethnic and religious groups are extremely prejudiced against one another because they're forced to be united instead of allowed to live in separate nations.
Frankly I'm pretty sure CF just leads into a massive Almyran invasion that nobody in Fodlan has the ability to resist, because they are mostly all dead, have broken into civil war, or are just not unified. When your neighbor is like, Gengis Khan with dragon-mounted archers, you REALLY don't want to have post-war devestation and such, y'know?
21:13 I always figured that dagger Edelgard pulled out was some kind of tell for the bandits, because surely she had some kind of plan in case of brigand charging her with axe ready..... Right?
@LordThomasPassion Okay I have to ask, what is it about that scene that is definitive that Edelgard would have objectively died to Kostas in that instant? She saw Kostas, she pulled the dagger in preparation to retaliate, she got into a defensive position, and considering she has two crests crests I dont see him overpowering her easily? It would be one thing if she tripped or had her back turned but that wasn't the case.
When I first played Three Houses, I was going to play Crimson Flower first: but then I chose Verdant Wind instead because Claude and the rest of the Golden Deer made me think of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure🦌 Thank you JoJo, for saving me from choosing the losing side first✊
Didn't Ionius get his power taken away because he was grabbing power for himself after he put down the Rebellion that screwed over Lysitheas house? And was responsible for the bad things that happened to House Ordelia? I believe that's why Lysithea doesn't blame Ferdinand's dad for what happened to her and her family in their houses paralogue.
I don't think that Jeritza would take over as the Black Eagles Professor. We can see that Manuela is the Black Eagles Professor and Hanneman is the Blue Lions professor unless Byleth chooses one of those classes, in which case they then teach the Golden Deer. Following that logic, it seems that Jeritza would naturally teach the Golden Deer. I don't think he would get the same option as Byleth to choose his class especially as this isn't his first year teaching (technically). Then again, I don't think that would really change much. It's unknown what role Jeritza was exactly supposed to play that he couldn't as a Weapons Instructor. If anything, as a Weapons Instructor, Jeritza had more free time and leeway with what he could do. Also, I don't think he would kill Flayn as Edelgard could still show up as the Flame Emperor and stop him. I'm not sure if the Remire plague would still happen, it's not clear why it occurred in the first place, however Kronya killing Jeralt (or someone else close to Edelgard) would likely happen as that occurred as a warning to Edelgard not to get too buddy-buddy with her classmates. And like you said, Kronya likely wouldn't get caught (or even revealed perhaps) which means Solon wouldn't use her for the Forbidden Spell of Zahras. Meaning that both Kronya and Solon would likely still be in play. And, like you said again, the Attack on the Holy Tomb likely wouldn't occur either which means Edelgard has additional time to prepare for the attack on Garreg Mach. That would also mean, however, that the attack on Garreg Mach would come as a surprise to Rhea and her defenses wouldn't be as strong. That, however, would likely backfire on Edelgard like you said. In all other routes, Byleth helps with the defense of Garreg Mach and is able to repel the initial attack. It's only when the Agarthan reinforcements show up that Rhea takes things into her own hands and transforms into the Immaculate One, however Thales has accounted for this with Demonic Beasts stopping her, allowing her to be captured. When Edelgard and Byleth together overwhelm her with their initial forces, Rhea transforms and flees instead, which is likely what would happen with a surprise attack without Agarthan reinforcements to subdue her. After that, the war would still stalemate and slowly start to weaken the Empire until they collapsed, or the fighting would continue for an indefinite amount of time. Who knows? Another point to note is whether Edelgard would still become Emperor early on and place Duke Aegir under house arrest. Either way, it would likely not change anything. As a side note, I actually read a fic regard this topic. It hypothesized that the war would last for 10 years with the war turning against Edelgard's favor after 5 years and slowly giving way to the Church and Kingdom forces. Edelgard would hold on for as long as she could and even hold the territory around Enbarr for an entire year before her forces completely crumpled and she would be captured alive, even in her Hegemon form, where she is then to be executed (and subsequently falls in love with Rhea... it's a weird fic...).
Crazy fanfiction, you had me onboard on what war in Fodlan may end up being like without Byleth or Shez intervention only for it to end with monster girl lesbian kissing one another, the tonal whiplash, we went from an analysis of a continent-wide spanning conflict to a fetish porno.
On the matter of CF/NDI timelines, I don't even believe in the validity of CF's ending. I don't think Edelgard gets to her peace, even if claude and dimitri go poof. I firmly believe that Free the Soul of N would be able to beat Post-war Edelgard, through the several powers they hold, and that The Left eye of Nemesis would be reborn.
Awesome video) 👌 Edelgard is a very good villain and antagonist. As a playable character not so much due to her being said villain/antagonist. She's like Arvis, but less competent and is defeated far sooner then him.
Very big disagree. Edelgard is an incredible character and works really well as a protag because it's not a black and white story, especially when TWSITD are removed. Fodlan is incredibly corrupt and rotten, and Edelgard is ultimately the one who finally decides that enough was enough. Also, Arvis was WAY more incompetent, given that he literally did NOTHING about the clearly evil group. Least Edelgard moved to completely eradicate them, ensuring peace. Arvis lets them stick around and ultimately let them gain power, bringing Loptous back and untold cruelty.
Arvis had to fall in line. The lopt cult threatened to reveal his lopt blood which would make his kingdom assassnate him immediately. After getting everything he wanted, he was basically a figurehead while lopt actually ran things.
@@personontheinternet2164 That's not true. He had plenty of power and could have dealt with the Loptous cult, but the dude took PITY on the clearly evil cult that had a hand in Deirdre's arrival and clearly wanted him to have kids with her. Kaga even revealed that Arvis discovered his relation and STILL did nothing to stop the revival of the Loptous Empire despite how he had every chance and power to do something. And he had the support of the people who loved him for how he helped them in their time of need. Arvis was just made to be incredibly stupid and he decided to do nothing against the evil cult. Edelgard was in a far more difficult position than Arvis was, but she at least struck back after she was able to secure her power.
@@0axis771 you forget that the people of Jugdral were _TERRIFIED_ of Loptyr coming back, to the point that many countries (Jungby most notably) regularly go on witch hunts for people with loptyrian blood. Jugdral's fear of their return is so palpable that the few remnants of people who genuinely believed in Loptyr were forced to hide in abandoned ruins in the Isaachian desert to avoid persecution. There's even the handprints of children on the walls. Arvis only discovered his relation moments before shit hit the fan and Julius started attacking Deirdre and Julia because of their Naga blood. Prior to that, he was none the wiser. He did suspect something was off when Manfroy started pushing for Arvis to create heirs, but his suspicion was that the Loptyrians wanted to turn his kid into a puppet ruler. If he had known they were attempting to resurrect Loptyr (and consequently, discover his relation to Deirdre), he never would have done the deed. Even though Arvis had the full support of Grannvale at his side, he also swore to King Azmur that his firstborn son would inherit the throne as soon as he was of age. That's part of why the Loptyrians timed things as they did. They only gave Julius the Book of Loptyr once his position on the throne was solidified. Any other time, and Arvis, as the current king, would have stamped it out. They struck the moment Arvis followed through on his promise to King Azmur because he would have been powerless to stop what came after. Arvis, despite being blackmailed by the Loptyrians, did everything in his power up until that point to keep them in line. The Loptyrians weren't able to act as freely as they wanted in Part 1 because know Arvis can just as easily expose their existence as they can expose him. Arvis even uses his connection to Saint Maera as leveraging that, even if they tried to expose his Loptyrian heritage, his blood stems from the person who rebelled against the old Empire and helped bring it crashing down alongside the Crusaders. And those that recognized that would still rally and support him. despite his heritage. Arvis wasn't an idiot, and I argue he was in a far trickier situation than the one Edelgard chose to put herself in. The difference is that Arvis, despite his best effort, was struck down at his most vulnerable moment, and as a result was forced to watch everything he worked for come crashing down. Edelgard had literally no reason to side with the Agarthans, and willingly chose to ally herself with them anyways despite knowing what the consequences would be. You tell me who's the bigger idiot here.
Arvis canonically gets screwed over by the Loptus Cult because he lets them be while Edelgard in one way or another always royally screws over the dubsteppers riding her conquest train even when she's killed before them, so I beg to disagree.
I always took Edelgard's plan as an start to break the chains of Rhea, whether not it succeeds or not is up to the people that will follow Edelgard after death. Now this being Fire Emblem, it prolly will to a point. Until a 3rd party takes down the Adrestian Empire.
Thing with Three Houses (and Three Hopes too) is that every opinion technically speaking good but also is horrible and WILL lead to problems in the future (I’d say that’s especially true if Edelgard wins but I admit i’m biased lol). So much can be discussed about this but sadly in the from darkness of the Fire Emblem fanbase there is only war.
0:44 Ironically enough, my first route was the Azure Moon route but I find myself agreeing more with Edelgard's ideologies than Dimitri's. 😶 Make of that what you will.
how tf is that possible? She literally caused more warcrimes in that route alone compared to all other lords from all other routes COMBINED. Unless you somehow seperate her caused warcrimes from her ideology?
@@ludwig-alice I do separate ideologies from war crimes funnily enough. What you believe in and what your goals are isn't necessarily the same thing as what you did to accomplish said goals even if it can lead to your supposed actions. It also doesn't help that I used Sylvain a lot on my first AM playthrough and a lot of his more serious supports were about how resentful he was to crests and how that correlates with his family and how he sees other women. After trying out the other routes and witnessing how the crest system has screwed over a number of other students (Lysithea, Marianne, Dorothea, Edelgard herself etc) I can't help but be in agreement with Edelgard in a sense that the crest monarchy is clearly broken and should either be eradicated or at the very least have the cultural importance of crests be less significant. Would I have started a war over it by teaming up with a literal cult to seize the academy in power over this? Probably not! But I agree with her view on the crest system in Fodlan, that much is for sure.
@@hylianfelldragon1308 Lysithea and Marianne aren’t victims of the crest system, if anything they’re relatively unaffected by it. They’re victims of their crests themselves, not of the systems built around them; to them, the crest based society is an inconvenience at worst. In fact, the only characters I would say ARE victims of the crest based society are Sylvain, Hanneman, and Ingrid. Everyone else’s struggles are usually tied to nobility as a whole, not the crests their legitimacy is based off of. And of all the factions the Alliance is actually the closest to dismantling the nobility due to the fact that merchants are becoming powerful enough to rival noble houses and even are able to vote in roundtable conferences (i.e Marianne’s adoptive father, Lord Edmund, I believe he’s called), which is what led to the collapse of nobility and feudalism in the real world many times.
If you choose SS eldgard, it is the worst. In CF, both Dimitri and the church suck. If you play, AM eldgard is the worst, and lastly, if you play VW everyone sucks
You know, the title annoyed me, but I decided to hear you out. And I appreciate, as an Edelgard fan, that you argued with a relatively impartial stance and tried to argue the facts and logic as much as possible. I'll try to argue the points you made using Crimson Flower, Scarlet Blaze, Golden Wildfire, and the no Byleth/Shez scenario. Warning: LONG post. But that just shows how I did enjoy your video. *- Crimson Flower:* When you argued about how Rhea did maintain peace for a very long time, I feel that it has to be understood that Rhea's form of peace is incredibly dubious and arguably unethical in nature. Rhea's form of peace involves a lot of things where she allows nobles with Crests to do almost anything they want (see how a commoner mentioned she lost her whole family because of a noble) and also the much corruption in the nobility that has been going on. It also involves a lot of suppression of technology and keeping people ignorant. As we clearly see, Rhea's peace involves some of the cruelest things happening overall by the present day comes in. Not to mention how isolationist policies are never good long run. Also, it is important to note that Edelgard dismantles the Church, not the religion. Even stated in Ferdinand's support with Mercedes that Edelgard allows people to continue to practice their faith and religion. So even after the war in CF is over, people's identity of following the same faith will not be stripped from them, so there is still a good aspect. Furthermore, because Rhea tries to burn down the Kingdom's capital and Edelgard goes to help the people, it's made clear that the Empire will be seen as saviors to the people of the Kingdom as a result of this. Furthermore, if she eradicates TWSITD, there's no dark secret faction that will bring about instability. Is Edelgard's future guaranteed? No. But it will bring about the best form of peace that is arguably the most ethical because no immortal is controlling the people, the people are now able to have free education, and there's no evil group that will be able to mess things up. *- Scarlet Blaze:* A great point you brought up about how the Empire overextended and couldn't fight two fronts, which Edelgard realizes is a mistake and ultimately understands the importance of cooperating with the Alliance/Federation. However, you are right that there is tension in trust given how easily Claude jumped ship the moment that Byleth convinced him otherwise. However, the good ending of Scarlet Blaze does ultimately make a point to show that Claude will support Edelgard as she finishes off the Kingdom in a final stand. After all, in SB, things went as Hubert personally hoped, where Aegir and all the remaining people of the Empire who opposed Edelgard banded together. This allowed Edelgard to ultimately crush every rebel faction in her Empire. With Thales and Rhea's supposed deaths, both TWSITD and the Central Church lost much influence and power. The Kingdom, mostly beaten down, can only make a weak final stand before being crushed by Edelgard and Claude completely. The thing to note is that recruiting Byleth results in Edelgard having a chance to talk to Claude and get to know each other a bit more. And Claude learning that Edelgard is not truly as ruthless as he thought her to be, when he learns that Edelgard doesn't want Rhea dead. This chance where Claude learns a bit more means that some trust has been built between them. Hence why it ends with Claude and Edelgard reaffirming their newfound friendship. *- Golden Wildfire:* I agree. This is arguably the best route in my opinion and a personal favorite. Claude holds all the cards and can force the Empire and Kingdom to hold peace. With the Federation defeating the Central Church once and for all, the Empire lost its reason for war. And Edelgard owes Claude a favor. And Claude has so much unity of his nation because of this victory that even the Empire and Kingdom cannot dismiss him. Claude also knows about TWSITD and can get Dimitri to help once more with Edelgard to eliminate the dark forces. Ultimately, there can be a begrudging form of peace that might be a bit unstable but has genuine merit behind it. *- No Byleth/Shez:* I dunno. Without Byleth, Edelgard would easily kill Kostas. Kostas being dead means that the bandits will scatter like in 3Hopes. Then that means like in 3Hopes, Jeritza is the professor and thus can track down Monica. Even if you argue that Monica cannot be saved, Edelgard can use Jeritza to masquerade missions to undermine TWSITD and keep tabs on them. Edelgard wouldn't allow Flayn to be killed, and the Creator Sword would come into Edelgard's possession, but Thales will note that without the Crest Stone, it's unable to be used, and likely will modify it so that Edelgard can use it. And if Edelgard has more time on her hands in the Academy, she could work to secure more alliances with others. Namely, she could end up being able to work something out with Claude. Claude also would not be as confident to take things on his own and might secure a working relationship with Edelgard because there's no Byleth to put all his hopes on. --- Anyway, great video and if you read all the way here, I hope that you enjoyed my points.
First: Based Golden Wildfire fan. Love to see it. Second: I really enjoyed reading your comment, it addressed things in a very clear and straightforward way and I appreciate the even-handedness of it. Some of the points do come down to interpretation since we obviously can't know what exactly happened after the end of the game, but I will say that I doubt any sort of alliance between Claude or Edelgard would be likely. Both are far too secretive, distrusting, as well as ambitious to try and let each other in on their whole plan from the get-go. In Hopes, Edelgard only lets Claude know some of what she knows after she allies with him from necessity. As for how people would approach Edelgard after CF, I believe there'd still be serious resentment. Its true that she only got rid of the Central Church, but the Central Church is the one that most Kingdom citizens are loyal to in the first place. As I mentioned in the video, that much resentment during a politically and socially unstable period is a recipe for disaster. All in all, great points and I love to see some constructive discussion.
@@TheHearthGuy Yeah, no matter what, Edelgard 100% will have to be prepared to deal with the resentment. Even if her Empire prospers in the long run, there's a big mess to clean up and scars that simply will never heal. And I think it was the point of all the routes, whether 3H or 3Hopes. No routes will come out perfectly. It's messy, it's chaotic, it's harsh and cruel. No routes are perfectly righteous and just. Whether you are the instigator or not, or even if your cause is righteous or not, war always leaves behind a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
Even if Edelgard was right, If I was Byleth I would just be like "I don't care, you killed my Dad" and side with Rhea. Because she is partly responsible for that.
Edelgard's empire should last a least a few generations before regions try to breakaway. After the conquest all the talented commanders and generals are either dead or on her side. She is abolishing the class system so the common people will be on her side. Even the Agarthans have been canonically eradicated.
The common people are on her side for like four months, before the "meritocracy" is immediately dominated by people with crests, who, reminder, do actually have minor super powers, and they realize that the war was for literally nothing, as far as they can see.
What I don't like about three houses and I guess by extension three hopes is that it dumps you in the middle of a mess between monsters and forces you to choose even though you are supposed to be a teacher and thus impartial. Why should I care about any of these groups when they are some combination of nuts, moronic, and outright immoral?
Reading the story I never understood how people thought her plan would work. Even in her route the war takes at least 6 extra months showing those who slither in the darkness have enough time to get nemesis and their army ready since Rhea wouldn't save us from the lances. Plus her route sucks. Boring one note and quick. Surprised it's the one they didn't want to flesh out more but even the developers knew she was a girl and used that to beta fans
Crimson flower was never planned to be a route during the initial design phase for the game. They added it in later bc the developers ended up wanting to explore a route where Edelgard is not the villain.
When it comes to Crimson Flower vs Scarlett ablaze. i think Crimson flower Empire would crash and burn because Edelgard would start her new government that would start fall quick because the nobles would just use connections and money and black mail that would just undo Edelgards plan and create another war! Not to mention, Edelgard in Crimson flower doesn't listen to anyone other than Byleth. Byleth, who essentially is a Echo chamber because they do not go against her keeping secrets and lying, so Crimson flower Empire is DOOMED for Another war. in Scarlet Ablaze empire, She has the same plan but this time she is more open for Suggestions from Allie OTHER than the MC because she was shown concequences for her lying, even if it was very short and maybe could be dragged out a bit. In the supports and possibly on screen, Shez would voice his/her disagreements on Edelgards plan and opinions and point the errors that could be Fixed and she is actually listening to Them! I think Scareltt Ablaze Empire might actually have a chance at being in true peace! Especially since this Edelgard will actually listen if her Friends tell her if there is a problem in her plan. Edelgard's main problem is keeping secrets and lying to everyone and wanting EVERYTHING to be under HER control because it is hard for her tp trust others after the life she had. I think Byleth makes things worse since they pretty much make her issues grow rather than have her fight that inner demon and brings the empire down because of it. Shez and Scarlet Ablaze forcer Edelgard to stop her shit and force her to fight that issue and tell her friends the truth! Given that her echo chamber is not with her this time!
I mean if the empire has their own version of the NKVD... (Hubert LOL) Maybe her enemies will "Magically" disappear before they can even react, I can see Hubert already thinking of that scenario and with the use of fear-mongering and connections of their own, could just be enough to wipe out the opposition before they can even form any coalition, you can never know with this kind of scenario, I mean in real life we thought Trotsky was gonna rule the Soviets after Lenin's death, but here comes Stalin out of nowhere using the same tactics I mentioned and he got into power without too much violence, just enough to make sure everyone follows, but not too much that it ended up with a Russian Civil War 2 electric boogaloo... And after a literal continent-wide spanning war with most likely, millions of casualties, only mercenary companies would be willing to take up arms and put their neck on the line for some nobles, people wouldn't be willing to go against their emperor to fight yet another war of bloodshed after already fighting a grueling conflict that pretty much ended up in a stalemate for five years, there are some of course, but not many at this point.
@@quirinoguy8665 Hubert is still human though, just like Edelgard he will one day pass away and without him and Edelgard, the nobles will do the blakmail and shit and it will all backfire hard. This is the fate of crimson flower, Scarlet Ablaze has a chance of fighting against this fate and having a stable empire. This all soley comes down to Edelgard being willing to hear others opinion and listening to them, which she is shown to do. Scarlet Ablaze makes me happy Byleth is not the main character because all they did was be an Echo chamber for her and have her not confront her issues. We see the Byleth consol and help Dimitri confront his issues and Claude most likely faced his issues in his route before Byleth awakened and Silver snow is a Byleth-focused route so it urks me how Byleth helps Dimitri but acts like a useless Echo chamber for Edelgard
i finished all paths last week, silver snow first, crimson flower last. Edelgard was right, the church is a corrupting influence by holding so much power and not keeping the aristocrats in check. every female student is another example of how the "nobility" were all no good and the system needed to be replaced. Annette is the only one who isn't in some way a victim of the nobles, the crest system, the power struggle, or the power abuse, but because of a workaholic father, and Hilda i suppose. Ferdinand is the anomaly, going by the ideal vision of how nobles behave. Edelgard was right but her method had too many holes it was too easy to fail, this makes her both right and wrong for starting the war without probable chance to win. Edelgard screwed up her war by making about about empire vs kingdom and alliance. if she started it spreading the message and trying to reform against the crest system and anyone that wants to continue it to abuse the power, INSTANTLY she easily recruits lysithea, bernadetta, ingrid, mercedes, sylvain, marianne, caspar, and possibly dorothea. everyone else would theoretically should be neutral to this war. all she needed to do was to not start the war, but spend her time at the academy to learn and know the history of 2/3 of the students there and she would know how many heirs she would have joining her side. this then becomes a war of children vs corrupt parents.
Lol yeah I'm with you bro. Go to BL if you want milquetoast classic good guy Bluehaired (Blue-themed with Dimitri ig) Lord. Sometimws I don't wanna be a good guy I just wanna fight as a baddas girl. I knew well from the start Edelgard is a bit screwed in the head but she looks the badass to me among the 3 lords. I mean how often you got an axe wielding girl lord compared to Number #36489 blue eyed handsome blonde prince? That being said I love em equally tho for diff reason, Edelgard for my fucking axe-wielding mf emperor, Dimitri for my development and angst needs and Claude for... being Claude lol. Idc about their morality or whether they're right or wrong--there's no right or wrong, only stories.
Frankly, IMO CF is the most sustainable route besides Church Route with a divine ruler being likely immortal since Byleth is reincarnated Sothis. Claude doesn't give a fuck about ruling anything, dude literally gives up to Edelgard on friendly terms and if left alive will calmly leave as if the war that cost him all his "friends" rages on as if it never mattered to him, dude is a sociopath one bad day away from starting a war for fun, you can't convince me otherwise. Plus he literally brings a foreign army against half the continent... to end racism... against conscription based armies. I'm sure half the continent with dead family members or friends will be okay with people who participated in killing them... Dimitri is heavily unstable - mental illness doesn't just leave because more trauma got added on top of it. Dude is literally more likely to start another war than Claude is. Meanwhile Empire starts painful process of slowly embracing democracy. Will it be a clusterfuck? Yes. Do democratic nations go to war far or have rebellions far less often than monarchies? Also yes. Is it way less likely do destabilise since you'd need enough people to vote psychos into power instead of a psycho simply being oldest king of current monarch. Hell yes. Sure, keeping status quo could be claimed to be more stable but with Agarthans around if war didn't break out they'd simply go back into hiding and start a war some other day.
In CF Byleth is no longer divine. And Edelgard has a very short expiration date on her life. That means she needs to shift, not just the Empire, but all of Fodlan into a new sustainable normal while also fighting a shadow war and selecting a new Emperor who won't be corrupted being that her ideal Emperor will be all powerful.
@@elevate07 Except all you said seems to be wrong. 1. Byleth is still divine, Why? Because Rhea is not the god and to give crests to humans she had to go with blood transfusions and human experimentation so she had not the power to create or remove crests - the person that had said power was Byleth. Byleth had Crest of Sothis, not Seiros so dissolution of his/her crest stone makes no sense - CF destoryed crest system, not crests and stone did not require Rhea since crest was not her, suggesting it vanished due to Byleth's will for world to be free from crest, starting closest to center of wish, so to say. Lysinthea's endings seem to confirm it, always mentioning short lifespan, fading into obscurity where anything would happen or actively finding a way to cure herself... except her Byleth endings outside of CF that mention lack of crests but not removing them, which might mean Byleth just willed them away. While it could be a stretch Byleth was a zombie so something had to power him/her once crest stone dissolved itself, becoming basically Sothis 2.0 that makes Byleth the god and as such restarting own heart seems easy. 2. Edelgard expiration date no longer applies is she wins the war. Lysinthea can be cured, hell, her ending with Claude says he abdicated the throne of Almyra and went adventuring to find a cure, even if we fully ignored the fact Edelgard was dying due to double crests which likely could be wished away by Byleth her condition was curable by a dude travelling and investigating ways to remove powers from people, she has state apparatus, universities, Hanneman and Linhardt, both of which cure Lysinthea in their paired endings, are imperial nobles... Nah, her expiration date is BS, which seems to be confirmed by her ending with Hubert saying THEY spent rest of THEIR LIVES together suggesting a very similar lifespan instead of saying Edelgard spent rest of her life on Hubert's side or something.
Dimitri also plans to continue the crest system. I love him and his route, but faergus as a nation sucks, and that’s not really his fault, but he does nothing to fix the issue. In azure gleam, the game ends with a clear indication that Claude will start another war with the church once given the chance.
What we have to consider is that the Empire's revolt against the Church of Seiros was written long before Edelgard took the throne. For the longest time, the relations with the Church were strained because Rhea sided against the Empire (her ally in the War of Heroes) in favour of the Kingdom during their war for independence. She brokered a peace treaty between them, but only under the condition that Faerghus make the Church of Seiros their official religion, essentially ranking her above the king. So the Empire loses a ton of land to the rebels (who were assisted by the Agarthans, Pan was Loog's tactician) and Rhea gives herself more power at their expense. All this after Wilhelm fought alongside her previously against Nemesis. So Rhea, being the figurehead of the Church of Seiros, now has authority over both the Empire and the Kingdom, allowing her to rule unquestioned, as standing up to her would drag in the other nation (as evidenced in 3 Houses and especially in 3 Hopes, where Faerghus is unwillingly drawn into the war in the latter game, willingly joining in the former because of Dimitri's mental breakdown). She could literally disregard the laws of any nation and operate unimpeded and unquestioned, making the position of Emperor, King and the Alliance's roundtable nothing more than a figurehead. She also created the toxic society that revolved entirely around Crests and did not use her authority to chastise or rebuke nobles who abused their power and status, instead allowing the corruption to run rampant. Rhea never truly cared for humanity, viewing them as ignorant and barbaric and unable to govern themselves. And when we consider that Sothis herself wasn't much better in 3 Hopes (having not lost her memory, she becomes much more authoritarian and ruthless, demanding that Byleth submit to her, which would completely erase Byleth's mind, effectively killing them, and she even preys on their fragile emotional state after Shez kills Jeralt, if you don't recruit them). Also consider that Sothis was actually an invader, as she did NOT originate on Fodlan, having arrived from space. She establishes herself as a goddess and creates her own brood (the Nabateans), which was heavily implied to have overthrown the existing societal order and placed them above the native humans. The way Rhea tells it is that Fodlan was a wasteland before Sothis arrived. However, Rhea has been known to lie about history in order to push the narrative that Sothis was a good goddess and the ultimate authority (thereby giving herself ultimate authority) and we also need to remember that Rhea was the youngest out of all the first generation Nabateans, meaning Sothis had already established herself by the time Rhea was born. However, the existence of an Agarthan pantheon contradicts this, as an organized religion implies the existence of a functioning society prior to Sothis's arrival. So the claim that Fodlan was an empty wasteland and that Sothis was the progenitor of all life is completely false. Furthermore, her claim that they were wicked and sought power over Sothis could also be caused by her own bias, as she was very young when the massacre at Red Canyon occurred, and someone witnessing those events would likely draw that conclusion. However, as we've established, the Agarthan civilization was deposed by Sothis and the Nabateans, so it's highly likely they instead rebelled against the invader. Remember, when Byleth sides against Rhea, she declares them all heretics and wicked souls, she doesn't hesitate to lambast them as pure evil and refuses to consider that she could ever be objectively wrong in her judgement. This is further exacerbated in Crimson Flower when she sets fire to the town, filled with innocents (shocking even Catherine, who is completely loyal to her). So, what this all means is that, other than Those Who Slither in the Dark, Rhea is the single worst thing that ever happened to Fodlan and is the source of all the problems with their society, as she is the immortal tyrant that has ruled since the beginning of the Empire's history. So whether or not you think Edelgard was justified in her war, it WAS necessary. She was never going to step down from her position, especially after her experiment fails, it was only her imprisonment during Azure Moon, Silver Snow and Verdant Wind that she does so, an imprisonment that would not have occurred were it not for Edelgard. This is more evident in 3 Hopes, as she maintains her position as Archbishop in the Azure Storm ending, since Byleth never reaches Garreg Mach and Rhea never recruits them. In both Golden Wildfire and Crimson Blaze, she is removed from her position forcefully. So yes, maybe the Empire falls, whether to infighting or becomes something different through societal change (maybe instead becoming a democratic nation), fundamentally, the outcome is still better than if Rhea remained in charge, as she stifled progress and change, something Claude points out.
Fantastic comment. Rhea really gets a lot of leniency because she's hot dragon milf with a huge rack. I also suspect recent real world events resulting in uptick of conservatism + religious sympathy (people see it as a return to stability, mirroring the video posters opinion on the pros of keeping the church in power) influence this bias. In truth, Rhea is almost comically shady and insular to the point even her own brethen (Seteth) question her motives. She is probably best described as a psychopath, only thinking of her own goals (reviving Sothis, keeping the lowly humans 'in check) and immediately lashing out against anyone that holds a contrary position, usually violently. I always found it telling and ironic that the amnesiac Sothis found Rhea suspicious and warns Byleth to stay clear of her. In the past I used to argue she possessed some positive traits, such as how she is doesn't seem to exhibit bigotry based on ethnicity or nation or her philanthropy and adoption of wards/orphans. However, deeper psychological profiling reveals these are in fact actions intended to benefit her in the long run. She isn't racist in the normal sense simply because she views all humans with contempt. She rescues and grants her blood to numerous warriors so they will become indebted to her. Its likely this also served as a control group for her experiments. In CF we also see these soldiers granted her blood transmogrify into beasts when she goes insane in her dragon form (to be fair, this may be have been unintended/unknown factor). She adopts orphans and political/war prisoners like Catherine and Cyril, creating a cult of personality around her and thus loyal fodder.
Being honest I kinda think Fodlan's screwed no matter what ending you go for: Azure Moon leaves it in the hands of a literal madman whose backers wont lift a single finger to ever stop him. Silver Snow leaves it in the hands of a person whose closest job to governance beforehand was 'first year teacher' and is now god king. Also enshrines Crest system harder than ever. Verdant Wind is just Silver Snow, but also the leader of the alliance reveals he was only using it to become king of Fodlan's biggest outside enemy. And Crimson Flower is Crimson Flower.
@@lpfan4491 No, his confession ending specifically has him state he's still plagued by hallucinations. He just pinky swears hes not going to listen to them anymore.
@@HeavySighSA Calling someone a "literal madman" for having schizophrenia is incredebly reductive, and Dimitri most definitly shows an ability to function despite his condition at the end of Azure Moon. The term used for him in the ending also seems to agree with that, being "savior king", and the ending says he spends his life ruling justly over and reforming Fódlan.
@@33link333 Dimitri straight up dies (and without interference takes half the houses of Faerghus with him) in every ending save his own because of his brain problems, and if we're going to ignore Crimson Flower's ending to say Edelgard would inevitably fail, we also have to cast doubt on Dimitri recovering from his worst aspects instead of doubling down on them after being retraumatized by his adoptive father dying to an imperial spy.
Your whole argument hinges and assumptions. And those assumptions are implied to be wrong by the game outright stating that Edelgard is successful in her routes in the end. And BOOFIRE is pretty infamous in the community. Hardly an "excellent" video.
Lets be real, Nemesis is the true hero of the game. Everyone Else: "I fight for the future I believe in." Nemesis: "God Shattering Star Starts." (Liberating humanity from the beast called god so his name could be remembered throughout history as humanities savior king.)
Lberating humanity for the sake of personal glory and pride. 😂 Though in all seriousness, it is kind of nice to have a character who does "the right thing" for the self-serving reasons. Just as villains can have good intentions, there can be selfish heroes.
Y'know, Edelgard's belief that the Church is upholding the Crest System despite the Slithers being the one that forcibly implanted a Crest in her could have been easily worked around if the writers just said the Slithers disguised themselves as clergy members while performing the experiments. They could have even had Edelgard recognize Solon as one of the people that experimented on her, cementing her belief that the Church was responsible because they were harboring one of the people who directly contributed to the darkest moment in her life
The church of Seiros IS upholding the Crest system, they teach that Crests are a gift from Sothis to discourage people from looking into it.
However, to claim that a Crest is a sign of divine favour allows the nobility to run rampant and abuse the commoners because standing up to the nobles is like standing up to Sothis and the church.
Rhea is the reason this ideology and rot is allowed to fester in society and she does nothing to correct it.
So while it is the Agarthans who implanted her with her dual Crests, their methods and ideologies are completely different, which is why Edelgard makes use of them, as they are a faction that relies on science, not doctrine.
Besides, Hubert himself says that Edelgard is essentially first in line to want retribution against Twsitd, but she has to be patient so that their objectives could be completed first.
@@nataliecoronado4206 pretty sure if the church happened upon the hresvelg dynasty being destroyed like that, rhea would have attacked with full force and captured and then subsequently execute the argarthans. But the real reason that they didn't have church disguises was because of the tensions and strained relations between the church and the empire. The empire had forcibly removed the church members and had created a new southern church.
@@valentinchappa6702 that is true, but many people in Adrestia, especially the noble class, still had a positive relationship with the Church of Seiros and regularly donated to it despite knowing about the attempted insurrection the Southern Church led over 100 years prior. Arundel was especially notable in this (obviously before he got snatched and replaced with Thales).
100 years is also plenty of time for relations between the Church and Adrestia's noble class to smooth over after that incident, even if it still remained strained with the royal family. So the idea that the nobles that led the Insurrection of the Seven could have welcomed members of the church into their plans (not knowing they were Slithers in disguise) is hardly unfounded
If 3H wasn't rushed. Maybe they could have fleshed out and fixed a lot of the games problems.
@@nataliecoronado4206 This would have just made her character reduced to a silly misunderstanding. The fact she decided to go after the church instead of revenge is something that's genuinely compelling, I remember taking a double take at that but upon further thought it's actually a pretty compelling part of her character.
Why does every single nickname for the Agarthans make me chuckle? And why did "Cult of Dubstep" make me laugh the hardest?
The biggest challenge for Edelgard is that she’s trying to speed run a revolution. She’s almost definitely had her lifespan shortened by the experimentation on her like Lysithea, which limits how much time she has to enact change. She’d probably be more willing to do things at a slower and more peace pace, but if it doesn’t happen in her life time then she doesn’t think it’ll happen at all. Also considering how they kidnapped and experimented on her, I doubt she went to TWSITD entirely of her own volition, or that they just let her go so that they could negotiate a deal they both liked. I wouldn’t be shocked if she was kept under their thumb to groom her into a weapon. Ultimately she was able to get into a position where she had some degree of equal footing but it’s pretty clear that if they go down they will definitely throw her under the bus.
The second thing that challenges her is that, similar to how Dimitri is ruled by his guilt complex, Edelgard is the embodiment of the sink cost fallacy. She looks at every step she makes and thinks “I’ve done too much to stop now” and forces herself to keep going. This is not a healthy mindset, but this is Fodlan and therapy hasn’t been invented yet. So the first step is losing her entire family and having a chunk of her life chopped off, and in between that she takes enough steps that continental war seems like a reasonable next step even if she doesn’t particularly like it or how she got there. But she’s come too far now, gotta sharpen that axe.
The shortened life thing that Lysithea has is cured by Linhardt in their paired ending so it’s reasonable to assume Linhardt does the same thing for Edelgard.
@@danieltobin4498 it's possible, but it ultimately requires the Empire to win the war, and for Lindhardt to marry Lys. Edelgard might survive the events, given the right circumstances, but they cannot be prevented.
Only Lysithea is confirmed to have the shortened life. At most, Edelgard's life is as long as an average peasant, just like her father and whatnot.
That's the ultimate irony of her ending that I think most people miss; Edelgard realizing that she's NOT going to die promptly, or die gloriously in battle, and thus stepping down like her father.
5:49 There is that one Abyssal Library document that posits that King Klaus I was assassinated, and the whole will was a forgery, possibly orchestrated by the Agarthans. If so, that was probably one of their most successful ploys over the 1100 years between the Wat of Heroes and the game.
They just created a country for the lols
@@valentinchappa6702 I didn't realize fire emblem illuminati is this wild
@@valentinchappa6702
Devide and conquer.
My problem with Edalgards plan is even if she builds the meritocratic system which she wants to, It will still be dominated and ran bypeople bearing crests. We know in universe crests make someone more powerful in both magic and physical ability, and she wants to build a system based off ability in an era of war that she is going to make. The people who naturally rise to the top in such times are those you are great warriors and generals, a majority of which are going to be crest bearers due to their innate advantage in that area, she might succeed in getting rid of the religious reasons for the crest system but she will renforce the practical reason of the system.
Yeah really gives off their edelgard ideas are doomed to fail
Though the crests cause problems unique to Edelgard’s case, I feel like this speaks to a problem with meritocracies in general. It’s a neat ideal worth striving for, but putting it into practice inevitably means imposing one on a nation that had been running under a different system. Meaning the social hierarchy has already settled and decided who’s at the top with better access to education and opportunities. Unless you work really hard to enforce it, the “meritocracy” is just gonna go right back to the old status quo, as the people who were on top before are better able to hone their skills and be on top in the new system. It’s a worthy ideal, but one that can’t survive reality; I can only see it working in a theoretical society that used a meritocracy from the outset with no other systems to crib from.
Edelgard should have fought against the _bias_ of the crests and not their _application_ in the world. In doing so she could show that while Crests _do_ make you more powerful, relying on them as an indicator of your position in the world is a doomed endeavor.
It's not dissimilar from how many democracies are made up of already rich people. Which probably also partly comes from peoples idea that they already need influence to be a part of politics. It's a general problem with systems that try to be equal. Since to make people equal you would need to take from others that are more privileged. But that could turn discriminatory too of course and begs the question of what exactly is the equal ground that should be enforced. Some laws that try to enforce equality ironically do affect lower or middle class people more than actual rich people.
Let's not forget that people with Major Crests, like Jeralt, can live for 300 years or more without aging.
I started with Verdant Wind and I will likely always see it as the more balanced option.
The route that came in second for me was the one I played last, the Church route.
I played Crimson Flower second, wanting to see the other side of this conflict, why Edelgard would start a war, why she would think trampling over every other nation for a reunification was a good idea, why committing a strategic suicide by starting a war on two fronts even happened… by the end I remained unconvinced and it remains my least favourite option.
Something that really stuck in my craw was that from the very start Edelgard was trying to have Claude and Dimitri assassinated and that unfounded attempt to murder her peers (no matter how she might think they are otherwise) soured me on her when the reveal came.
The irony then that Claude’s atypical cowardice/caution caused it to go awry and almost got her instead only softened that a little.
Edit: I was wondering if BOOFIRE’s old videos prompted this line of inquiry. It hits many of the same notes.
Ok, I think my favorite euphemism is the Underground Disco Enthusiasts
I think a big point that had me like "El, what are you doing?" was in one of her supports with Ferdinand. Ferdinand is like "hey we wanna base people on merit but without changing anything, nobles are still gonna have the best opportunities, so why don't we have free schools?" And Edelgard was so surprised by this thought process that I couldn't help but wonder what her plan was after the war. Doesn't help that I'm a Dimitri loyalist and he called her out for something similar, that "not everyone is as strong as you" during their talk lol.
Two things are wrong here. One, Edelgard is not "surprised". She's intrigued by Ferdinand proposing it, but she's not shocked or surprised. Even without Ferdinand, Edelgard moves to try and educate the people, as indicated by Manuela/Hanneman's CF ending.
Also, her support with Constance has her explain a bit more about her system.
And finally, that Dimitri talk has Edelgard not be able to explain much of anything, but some moral debate. Not to mention that Edelgard scoffed at Dimitri calling her strong, when she herself doesn't think that at all.
@@0axis771 Yeah her support with Constance also has her talking about how the Emperor will personally appoint all the important members of the government as well as their successor. Absolute power at the top and they choose all the powerful people around them? At least with Monarchies the King/Queen doesn't personally choose all their nobles and has to make them happy, instead of just handpicking the most loyal.
Whether she's shocked, surprised or "intrigued" it still means she hadn't thought of it before and likely wasn't going to anytime soon. She doesn't exactly have the best record of listening to advice even from her most trusted people. Hell even chapter 12/13 (don't remember which), when her emotions for Byleth would at their strongest she straight up loses support points if you say the name of her Black Eagles Strike Force is silly and then she keeps using it anyway. I can't imagine it being an easy process for Ferdinand to convince her of it when she has so much disdain for him.
The Manuela/Hanneman CF ending has them running The Officers Academy. Y'know, the school specifically designed to bring up the next best Generals and Politicians. I don't think those are the education goals of a country that has the quality of life for their citizens as a major priority. And even then it's still a very small school for an entire continent to attend. Also, reading their ending, the Empire/Edelgard once again had no part in that very limited win. What it says is that "the Church was rehabilitated under the supervision of the Empire". So the religion was overhauled, and then some time AFTER that Hanneman and Manuela started up their own school. And that's just 1 paired ending.
Dimitri explicitly asked for her reasoning and she goes off on tangents about her ideology, she's constantly deflecting and running off self imposed dogma. Not to mention just because someone thinks they aren't something doesn't mean they aren't. She's one of the strongest physically (looking at stats and feats) and she's super strong mentally for being able to go through a year of making close relationships all with the intentions of probably killing them one day and even just going through with her ambitions. Just because she has an inferiority complex doesn't mean she isn't basically a demi-god with a willpower strong enough to purposely set her close friends like Bernadetta on fire while still alive to achieve the slightest of strategic advantage.
@@gg_sam7847 If you actually watched the support, you'd realize how you're wrong about what you just said. Edelgard never said that she would make every decision. Yes, she absolutely CAN appoint people into power should they display the skill and ability, but at the same time, it isn't always determined by her. And even those that she does appoint is not something she appoints just because she wants those loyal, but those who are worthy of the position. Remember, Ferdinand's endings where he becomes the Prime Minister in CF is because he instituted reforms and policies that aided the people. He earned his position. Or if he's paired with Manuela, Manuela appointed the position because she was the one who performed the deeds that were recognized.
Nitpicking about Edelgard having a childish fondness for the team name is...silly. Like, you're literally nitpicking there.
The Manuela/Hanneman CF ending explicitly states that Garreg Mach was reformed to start teaching more "practical" subjects. Remember that Garreg Mach originally was just to teach people the art of war, but now it's teaching a broader range of subjects. With or without Ferdinand, Edelgarad still institutes education to people in Garreg Mach, which is also been reformed to accept more students. Now commoners can enter and receive an actual education, rather than just learning how to fight. So even without Ferdinand, education was always going be instituted by Edelgard regardless. And it has to start small, because as Constance stated, though nobles will still remain in power for the short term, in the long term process, the transition will change for the nobles to be replaced.
No, Edelgard isn't deflecting. If anything, Dimitri is not the one allowing her to even give a proper explanation. He asks a question, and she tries to respond, but then Dimitri immediately argues back. Edelgard is the one constantly being forced to reply to Dimtiri jumping at her words as if everything she says is wrong so she has to keep being forced to respond back with little answers given. I don't know if this is just the devs not wanting to spoil Edelgard's reasoning cause split routes, or because this is Dimitri's story and thus he has to be the one morally right cause he had his redemption. Either way, Edelgard was not the one doing the deflecting here.
Also, don't lie. At Gronder, Edelgard didn't set Bernie on fire. Her tile is the one place that never is touched. The flames are meant to protect Bernie. It's people like you and other haters who lie about the fire and insist that Edelgard wanted to kill Bernedetta. It's the most dishonest argument to this day.
I personally just really love the gag of Fodlan characters introducing things we take for granted as radical ideas, a similar thing happens when Hapi tells Yuri the earth is round and his mind is blown. Like imagine telling someone in fodlan the idea of public education, if anyone's thought of that idea they've probably been thrown in abyss for it.
@@0axis771 They watched the support. The simply p[pointed out the flaws in that thinking because it doesn't work.
It really just comes down to the same reason the Church itself had its failings and collapsed in the game, the foundation is built upon lies, the two factions, and leaders of those factions, are two sides of the same coin.
All good reasons but IMO you miss the biggest, simplest one - Crimson Flower is 95% Edelgard doing exactly what TWSITD want her to do, the 1 real exception being the attack agsinst Arianrhod, and well, we know how that ends.
Even if she professes not to like it... she still DOES it, and that ends up with 1 single emperor ruling the entire Empire, an ascension which was orchestrated by a group of dubstep Albinos who specialize in assassination and body-doubling.
Gee whiz, I wonder what their plan for Edelgard could possibly be now that she's the one with unilateral control over Fodlan?
Never mind anything from 3 Hopes, which shows they could also keep Edelgard alive and just, turn her brain off basically. 3 Hopes also shows they just want pure chaos, which... yeah the fact that they support Edelgard only strengthens your theory that her empire isn't built to last, even if the moles don't directly step in afterwards to assume direct control.
Lastly - maybe it could be argued murdering and replacing Edelgard would be tough for TWSITD. But what would be easy? Just replacing whoever's gonna replace her. There's your perfect, clean break for slipping an Agarthsn into power. You could do the switcheroo after the nee emperoris declared, or just kill and replace valuable subjects at random for years during Edelgard's rule, so that by the time she has to pick a new emperor, she's got a 90% chance of picking a sussy imposter.
Or don't do anything because despite playing right into the hands of the people who are responsible for her darkest moments, despite handing them every possible advantage, Edelgard beats the Twist and Shouts off-screen during the credits, because this game has good writing guys I swear.
Yeah when I played 3H it was pretty obvious to me that CF would've led to the most unstable and chaotic ending for Fodlan. I really didn't like how all the ending things just went like "they all lived happily ever after The End". If all ends are the same, then Edelgard's means aren't justified
But the good endings of the other routed only take place because of the war. If Edelgard had not acted, everything would remain the same.
If It werent for Edelgard actions, Rhea would never have left her position on non-CF routes, and nothing would have changed.
So even when she looses the war, her actions bring the world she dreamt of, even if she doesnt live to know It in most routes
@@gumi6286 So she's the King Rudolf of the game
@@berserkerciaran red armor does that to a mf
She turned into the monster they wanted her to become during all of those experiments.
@@neopets666 I like more my idea of her as an anti-hero who starts the war so that someone more fitting can rise against her, than a mere tool of the mole people
Yea, my first route was Verdant Wind and that definitely colors my depiction of events. It also makes me side with Claude's ideas more often
Hey me too: nice to meet a fellow deer🦌
Same! Though I like to think, even without that bias, that Verdant Wind offers the most complete picture of all the routes, even if it's still somewhat incomplete.
@@Error403HRD For sure. Learning a good amount of the true history to help Fódlan develop into a better world is what I like about Verdant Wind
Hey, me too. Verdant Wind was my first route and its still my defacto route for me
Same, I first beat Verdant Wind back in around November 2022 and I could go for days explaining why Claude was right
Something to consider is how the newly discovered lost technology will shape the future. It could either destroy the Empire or be its salvation.
1. Only the Agarthans and the Church of Seiros even know what to do with it, or even comprehend what it is. The only real exception is Hanneman's BS Crest-detector made of stolen Agarthan tech. It would be like giving the Sumerians a car.
2. I am of the opinion that, due to the war with Those who Slither in the Dark being called a "shadow war", Byleth and Edelgard actually fail and their history is falsified. This allows the Slitherers to continue to exist, and run Fodlan. So I guess that THERE, there possibly COULD be a technological revolution, but still.
I'd like to point out one thing, if Byleth wasn't there in Three Houses, then more than just Edelgard would've died to Kostas. Claude and Dimitri might've also died.
I mean I doubt Dimitri cause Crest and possible PTSD but yeah it makes a difference
I don't think Kostas could kill Claude, he's too smart and evasive
Kostas would've killed Byleth, Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude, Rhea and Thales, going on to rule all of Fodlan as the undisputed king of all men. He later would go on to conquer all of Fodlan's enemies, and travel across all seas to plunder and raid the world for all eternity.
Kostas best boy.
Honestly with the op nature of Dimitri’s crest Kostas was doomed to fail after edelgard. Claude’s life then depends on who he goes for first cause Claude would probably just ditch after edelgard
@@jonathanthompson4077 Plus doesn't Dimitri already have experience in battle‚ i.e. putting down a rebellion that was supposed to kill him‚ I think he should be fine against a few crestless bandits. (Unless the amount and quality of the bandits are scaled down in a gameplay vs. lore mismatch.)
Also Rhea made her „experiments“ from her own body, right?
At least Byleths mom got to life a happy live
So as bad as her trying to get Sothis back… it didnt seem like she did anything bad ro the „failures“
Rhea expected Byleth to be "erased" when Sothis took over. To her, Byleth was not a person, but a vessel. Even referred to Byleth as that to Seteth.
@@0axis771 Rhea is definitely not a good person but at "least" she didnt kidnap people from the street to try to put sothis in
That's what i mean, she DID have her lines and Byleths mom got to live out her natural life even as "failure"
Not saying Rhea didnt do bad, oop
@@Cheremia Live her life where? In Garreg Mach. Only in Garreg Mach and that's it. Sitri was never able to venture outside. There was no freedom.
It's clear that while Sitri was happy, her happiness came when she was with Jeralt, and wanted to also venture outside one day, but never did.
Hell, Sitri wasn't even given a burial. Rhea stashed her corpse in Abyss and goes down at times to look at her. Kinda creepy.
Even with Byleth, while Byleth was made a teacher and can venture out, Byleth was ultimately directly working for Rhea and was to follow her instructions.
@@0axis771 Wasnt she pretty sickly? Or do i remember it wrong?
Not like i'm talking against you or anything by the way
@@Cheremia They say that she had a weak constitution, but I highly doubt that she could have been so weak that there was absolutely no means that she couldn't have been able to leave the monastery.
And like I said, it's super creepy that Rhea didn't even give Sitri a proper burial, but stashed her in Abyss to look at her on occasion.
I actually married Rhea on my first playthrough, because I'm a sucker for Cherami Leigh's characters. But it seemed like the best ending in terms of sheer stability for the continent. Two immortal--and more importantly benevolent--demigods keeping the peace for all eternity seems pretty nice. But in Edelgard's ending Byleth becomes mortal, and Edelgard has two crests, so I can't help but think that the moment they both die it's going to be chaos.
Definitely at best you get China's three kingdoms. At worst you'll get the balkans
This is complicated in Sothis's S-support with Byleth, where she says that Byleth WILL die and that Sothis will go with her. I kinda imagine it in a God/Jesus Metaphor sorta way, where Sothis will reconnect with an underworld she hasn't been into but still be present in the real world, but still.
Ceramic Leigh is a nobody woman. Worst compliment you have
I still love pointing out to people that the first action we see in game from Edgelord is that she tries to kill Dimitri and Claude. And their first actions in game are to be such good guys that they won't leave her to die on her own, foiling her plot, and nearly getting her killed in her own plot to kill them.
Still wish one of the timelines was one where her plan succeeded in getting all three of them killed, like Bylateral was just a little too late, so we watch the Bandit Lord kill Dimitri, Claude, and when Edelgard tries to turn into her alternate self, to show him she's the one who hired him, he cuts her down before it finishes.
That would have been an interesting DLC/Timeline.
Aka the timeline where all nations gets pissy at the church for allowing three of their future state leaders to get killed, lol, Faerghus fucking explodes, the alliance is bickering among themselves probably, and the Empire is now run by the shadow government and corrupt nobility that makes Warhammer 40K politics look like an episode of the office, a little over-exaggeration but you get the point.
As I was playing through Scarlet Blaze recently, I too noticed that Edelgard was collecting enemies like Pokémon cards, and that she didn’t really do anything to endear herself to the one power who’d even entertain the thought of a partnership with her.
I dunno. I'd say that alongside gaining enemies, she was also making strong allies. Look at how she spared Lorenz's dad, who fully expected to be killed. Because of her actions, House Gloucester's people are happy and supportive of Edelgard, and Lorenz is more willing to support her because of this.
Then there's also how Edelgard expresses why she won't abandon Lonato when he acts out. She wants people to know that if you support her, she will support and protect you in turn.
Edelgard is definitely playing a delicate game of politics and is trying to ensure that she keeps a stable grip. And if anything goes awry, she deals with it quickly and swiftly.
@@0axis771Those are good points.
@@0axis771 That’s a good point.
14:00 I dunno, I’m pretty sure Lysithea did all the heavy lifting in my playthrough
Honestly I thought the same when I finished all routes in 3 Houses. I'm not done with 3 Hopes yet. All of the "and everyone was happily ever after" endings felt wrong to me, but especially in Crimson Flower it just felt... Improbable lol.
Also I started with Golden Deer, but ended up adoring the Blue Lions instead. Go figure.
Honestly Blue Lions is my favourite route and feels more of a satisfying ending than the Black Eagles.
@@BILLYBOBBYLADS Eh, nothing changes that much, and you don't really deal with the Agarthians
I will always be a Dimitri loyalist, and I can't believe I was robbed of my S support with him with my first playthrough as male Byleth, so apparently Dedue, Felix, and freaking Gilbert can get their endings with him but I can't?! Unacceptable... But alas I settled with Marianne having an ending with Dimitri and if I recall correctly, I S supported Shamir instead, sorry Catherine but well, you died so I don't care, never play Maddening as your first difficulty playthrough... It was won through blood, toil, sweat, and tears of losing Ashe, Dedue because it's his fault for not returning quickly so he ended up being expendable cannon fodder, Gilbert, and Catherine. RIP
@@chrisdiokno5600Don’t you deal with pretty much all the Agarthans in Blue Lions though? You just don’t know who they are or what they represent but you ending up taking out their group unintentionally? Or am I remembering wrong 😅
@@reginald7522 Possibly. Been awhile. I still believe either Crimson or Golden are best.
I was so frustrated in CF because no one questioned or criticized Edelgard and her actions. Edelgard almost didn't explained anything to anyone. Even with Byleth.
So it was very interesting with CF!Felix. He was aware that he become exactly what he hated about Dimitri and his actions.
The biggest issue for Edelgard is that going the Crimson Eagle route , will guarantee a Yugoslav War like situation to happen in the future . Most likely spurned by the Dark Faction. Fodlan was able to keep together because of Rhea keeping the lie of Fodlan down for centuries while Edelgard wouldn't be able to . This is the tragedy of Edelgard , one who wants to make right past wrongs but goes about them in the worst ways possible which guarantee's future conflicts .
Well put.
@@TheHearthGuy Thank You
Doubtful. The thing is, look at how CF ended. With Rhea burning down the kingdom's capital. And the Empire saves the Kingdom's people as a result. And the fact that Edelgard clearly immediately attacks and destroys TWSITD after the Kingdom is brought down. In essence, there IS no dark faction to deal with.
So if you basically have a situation where you destroy every dark faction, the people are now supportive of you for the help, then there's nothing to actually oppose you.
There's a reason why Edelgard's route has several endings labeled "true peace" on there.
@@0axis771 "And the fact that Edelgard clearly immediately attacks and destroys TWSITD after the Kingdom is brought down" believe it or not, I don't believe the post ending scrawl on this since they are in theory at their strongest here since they were mostly left alone. Nemesis doesn't just roll over and die.
@@uberculex No, they aren't at their strongest. You know why?
Because no Dukedom, her friends are with her to stabilize the Empire, and her allies are the ones occupying the conquered nation.
No political or military power was actually gained because Edelgard minimized their military growth. And Cornelia dies and they used the javelins too soon.
And if you played that auxiliary mission, it's revealed that Edelgard has been sending Jeritza on covert missions to destroy Agarthan bases.
Meaning that TWSITD actually don't get nearly as much power as you think they do.
Oh yeah just like the second she dies that empire is falling apart
Most of her paired endings reveal that she retires from the position of emperor and appoints someone else.
So the Empire doesn't just fall apart after she dies. The whole point of establishing a meritocracy is to avoid precisely that.
Which doesnt make much sense considering the person who did the most is likely someone with a crest like Ferdinand, which would further cause issues with the plan in the longhaul. Then, if you assume it can't be someone with a crest, that really only leaves Caspar, who while great, clearly cant lead squat. Then, anyone else unnamed could be easily puppeteer'd, especially when you consider how unlikely it is a shadow war would remove all the Agarthans from the playing field. @LAZERAK47V2
@@matthewsimon6170 TBF, its not like she wouldn't say, advise the new leader or leaders.
@@LAZERAK47V2
Reminder
People with crests are actually stronger and better than people who don't have them. This doesn't come up much in gameplay, but, remember; Raphael is like, a BIG guy, and Dimitri is mentioned as being several times stronger than him despite being pretty weedy, because he has a Crest, but Raphael doesn't. People with crests are just better than people who don't. Maybe that sucks, but them's the breaks. If two otherwise equal people are in a competition, the one with a crest will win. This also means people with crests will be much more well rounded, because they don't need to hyperfixate on one or two areas of specificity.
Her meritocracy will almost immediately revert back to being crest dominated, unless she is present to aggressively and forcefully convince everyone what merit means to her, which will logically end the moment she's not around to bend the definition of meritocracy in weird ways.
Because she is an insane smoothbrain dictator who logically is getting assassinated within the year, probably by someone who is nominally an ally, and can build an actual government off the back of "I got her"
@@chrisdiokno5600 That doesn't mean much if the only reason people are following her lead is so she doesn't toss em onto the ungodly amount of bodies she had to cut down to make the boat float on a river of blood.
1:33 if Monica, and Ladislavia didn’t get to it first.
I feel like Edelgard actually does have a good shot at wining in the no Byleth scenario. If only due to the fact that her willingness to use demonic beasts and the other nations lack of Byleth gives her forces a big enough advantage to more than offset how taxing fighting a war on two fronts is. Hell that’s part of why she was wining the war before Byleth woke back up in the non crimson flower routes.
Though yeah she does definitely have her work cut out her attempting to keep things stable after word lmao.
There is also the fact a meritocracy wouldn’t work in fodlan because 1. Meirt is deeply subjective person to person which makes it extremely fragile and it also doesn’t prevent nepotism since Nobles could just simply choose their children as their hierarchy, 2. Meritocracy massively favor those with time and resources and often it nobles who where simply born with land and since Edelgard doesn’t do anything to even out and 3. Crest are a form of merit, people put value onto them and they get results, hell Edelgard proves that crest are valuable if she wins the war since she had two! So her solution to the problem is the same problem. There is also the fact that Edelgard society would be based on a lie as well since she sided with the Agarthans (Who by the way, are actual reason why Fodlan is messed up) by her own choice, framed Rhea. What would happen if people had found out what Edelgard did, they probably call her a hypocrite and consider her society bullshit.
1) Free education fixes that.
2) Again, free education fixes that. A lot of nobles we see are shown to be extremely incompetent and just got their position simply because they were born into it, not because they worked for it.
3) Crests are ONLY good for military purposes, not governing positions. This was brought up by Lindhardt. Merit is not dictated by those who are strong by military prowess but by the skill, intelligence, and other factors that allow them to be able to govern lands. And even in terms of military prowess, it's still not a guarantee, given characters like Caspar, Hubert, Dorothea, and other people who have no Crests but have so much skill and prowess in their abilities.
And her society isn't based on a lie. TWSITD is eradicated after the war, but more than that, Rhea has been the one who lied to society and based it around those lies. People are made to follow her false religion and ultimately set her people on the rulers of said religion, and Rhea even considers her position to be what leads Fodlan, hence why she wants Byleth, the vessel for Sothis, to take charge.
Ultimately, Edelgard's society does have a good chance of success for a time. No routes have a truly guaranteed future. But Edelgard's gives free education, open borders, and eradicates the absolute evil group. So ultimately, it gives the most freedom and chances for people and no longer have the threat of a dark group behind the scenes.
@@0axis771 1. Merit is still an opinion that people can make even with education.
2. Did Casper and Hubert really get their jobs through merit or was it because they belonged to already an established family that had ties to the empire? Edelgard also promotes a selection, not an election, something you criticize Rhea for choosing Byleth for. Hell, even Edelgard doesn’t pass this since she was literally born as a princess of the empire. It’s easier to get skills and education when you born with an advantage than others.
3. Yes it is based on a lie, Edelgard framed Rhea for the crimes of the Agarthans. All the problem in Fodlan lead directly back to the Agarthans and in a lot of cases Rhea was forced to do this. Edelgard did have a choice, multiple ones and she choose the worst one. At least Dimitri creates a more democrac council to listen to people and Claude actually opens up Fodlan. We also have reason to believe in Edelgard ending about destroying the Agarthans, she is a known unreliable narrator and at least in the other routes, you actually see the defeat of the Agarthans.
@@MrSupersmash93 1) No, it isn't. Education is education. People who are the most brilliant will ultimately stand out, and being a noble means nothing because now you aren't promised anything unless you put in hard work.
2) First of all, this is a bad take. You are saying the equivalent of, "You argue about society, but you live in it." Edelgard wants to change the system, but right now, she needs to use the system to her advantage before making the changes. It's something Edelgard herself acknowledges that she has to do so far until the changes can be made.
Second, Edelgard judges by character, not stations. Hubert's father was in the station to protect and serve, but betrayed. Hubert remains loyal. And Caspar's whole story is that he is promised nothing for lacking a Crest. He legit has to make a name for himself through his own merit.
3) Oh wow, this is just...so wrong. Edelgard did not frame Rhea for everything TWSITD did. The ONLY one you've got on that was what happened to Arianrhod, but that's one event vs. your argument that is you saying that Edelgard is framing Rhea for the "crimes". Also, no. Dimitri did NOT create anything resembling democracy. Or even a council. And Edelgard also opens up borders, both from her thing with Petra, and her own paralogue where she says that she intends to open borders to Almyra as well. And no, there's no unreliable narrator. Several endings confirm their defeat, even using the phrase "true peace" to describe it, which is missing from other routes, with Jeritza outright saying they are gone for good.
I'm sorry, but more than half your arguments come from bad faith and is projecting false information here.
@@0axis771 1. That’s total bullshit, look at our own society, we still choose the worst people, all who come from political dynasty and rich pricks to lead us which is no different from and we still have the Gaul to call ourselves a meritocracy? Get out of
2. But she really doesn’t, why conquer Fodlan and bring back the empire in the first place, why not just stick to her and make her ‘Changes’ in her region? She just a conqueror who just wants power because she experienced a loss of power. Oh yeah she has a great fucking judge of character, not siding with ethier Claude or Dimitri and instead siding with the very people who hurt her, calling Rhea’s people monster and never trying to get their side of the story, feeling sorry for Miklan the guy who was kick out not because he didn’t have a crest but because he tried to kill Slyvain twice and probably wouldn’t become a bandit if he just nothing. And again did Casper and Hubert get their jobs because of their names or their work, that the problem with merit.
3. Then why make the war with Agarthans a secret, why not expose them and tell the truth? Why is she basically covering them and solely focusing on the church? Also Edelgard perspective of the history of Fodlan straight up contradicts the actual lore of Three House, she believed Sothis and Nemesis were lovers and that Rhea killed her mother because of that. Also she kills/ banishes the one person who could have help with Almyra, Claude. Also you wrong about Dimitri not creating anything to help, this is from his ending “He was Known for listening intently to the voices of all, and for INSTITUTING a new form government in which the people free to be active participants” this sounds more like a democracy than Edelgard selection process.
@@MrSupersmash93 1) That sounds like you having a problem with today's society, which I don't deny is slowly breaking apart, but that's not really here nor there. In no way changes that how the system of Edelgard's with free education is set up is that people who are shown to be actually brilliant will be the ones to have the chance to be elevated. Nobles no longer have the power to suddenly gain these benefits without putting in work. So my point doesn't change.
2) It's already explained. Her war is with the Church, and ultimately, the other nations have the Church influence. The "Holy" Kingdom is very much supportive of the Church. And the Alliance, while a bit more neutral, still have Church faithfuls. 3Hopes does a good job showing that fighting the Church DOES ultimately involve the other two nations. So Edelgard conquering the other nations is ultimately becomes necessary.
Also, Edelgard doesn't side with TWSITD. She hates them and wants them gone. But in 3H, she never got the chance to break away from them until after the war, and when she does, she destroys them completely. 3H straight up shows Edelgard TRYING to talk to Claude in VW, but Claude ultimately refuses to answer anything and Dimitri is ultimately proven to be loyal to the Church, proven by 3Hopes. Not to mention how Rhea literally is unwilling to ever talk until Rhea finally feels remorse in Part 2 in the other routes, but until Rhea realizes how she was wrong, Rhea refuses to ever divulge. Once again, proven in the story.
No, Miklan was kicked out for the stated reason of not having a crest. Any indication that he was kicked out for trying to kill Sylvain is pure headcanon from you and others. Hell, 3Hopes literally tries to prove this when Dimitri recruits Miklan and makes him serve, trying to give him redemption.
And as I pointed out, Caspar DID get his job through work, not station. Because he was literally promised nothing for lack of a Crest. Hubert is a different case, but still proving my point.
3) How do you explain to people that there are a secret mole men that have been doing horrible shit behind the scenes and can take people's faces? There's no way to expose them or prove their existence. That's why they are always having to be taken care of from the shadows. No proof of their existence can be fully exposed. I think that's self-explanatory. It'd be like saying that the Illuminati exists IRL.
Also, now you're 100% proving that you didn't pay attention. Sothis and Nemesis was never stated to be lovers by Edelgard. Not once. I have no idea who gave you that headcanon, but you clearly did NOT pay attention to the story or you have been getting your information from Edelgard haters or something. Your info is now starting to be absurd on so many levels.
Edelgard letting Claude go and having him in her debt only helps support her efforts to negotiate with Almyra. Fact is, Edelgard straight up states that she intends to open borders if you played her paralogue or even saw her support with Petra.
And no, I can already prove to you that Dimitri did NOT create a democracy, because it's literally stated in his and Annette's ending that what his government is that of a DYNASTY. Dimitri didn't create a council or a democracy. The Kingdom is still a dynasty, and there are still nobles ultimately, proven by the many endings shown. You are like other Blue Lion fans who took that ending and wanted to insist that it was the absolute best thing, while hearing Edelgard say "merit" and insisting that it's a meritocracy. Despite how the term was never used to define her government.
A very unfaithful argument that I've heard for years.
====
Listen, this argument has gotten EXTREMELY long, and your arguments are rooted in bad faith.
You have clearly not played the game enough, or read the supports, or got wrong info from other people.
I recommend that you try to get your facts straight and maybe come with a shorter argument from this point on. I'd rather not waste so much time on this.
5:44 Batu's ghost from Genealogy is face palming so hard as history repeats itself
I read this medium article on how the imagery of three houses paints edelgard as a walking red flag that westerners miss because they don't understand Eastern philosophy.
I think too many westerners (note, I live in the west, too) view the church of Seiros as the Catholic church and thus hate it by default. they fail to understand the eastern philosophy involved, unfortunately. the Seiros faith became an instant scapegoat for real world church haters b/c understandably, real world churches do suck lmao
Do you mean in the literal sense via the red and white color scheme or a more metaphorical one via her ideology and methods?
@nerothewateruser8030 he means a red flag warning sign thru imagery and symbolism, not to mention the red emperor archetype even in FE games.
@@l.n.3372 so more metaphorical then, alright
My first route was Crimson Flower, but I found myself disagreeing with her very early on in White Clouds. I wanted to see it through though, but the ending where we killed Rhea left a bitter taste in my mouth.
My favorite route was Verdant Wind. I could easily identify my own ideals within Claude. The solutions presented in VW also just made the most sense as they get to the roots of the problems that have swirled around Fodlan, namely the xenophobia, false history, and isolationism to name a few. It's the closest thing to a golden ending imo. It's why I can maintain that Claude was right, but Golden Wildfire showed us that without the development he earns in VW, he can never grow past his wrong ways
Golden Wildfire is the worst route because while we saw Claude's more tactical side, it came at the cost of his wisdom/maturity because Three Houses Claude isn't nearly this stupid about Rhea, and none of the changes in the Hopes timeline justified how much less nuanced his views of Fódlan's issues are.
Azure Gleam is the best route because it took on the worldbuilding role that Verdant Wind previously held, and Dimitri got to show his more tactical side, but also a bit more of his political knowhow and understanding of the true nature of his power.
TBF, Three Hopes has the war occur FAR earlier, TBF
@@chrisdiokno5600 Still, I find it hard to believe that Claude would somehow become so much less curious and open-minded.
@@MrGksarathy What war without Byleth does to a MF
Thing about Claude in houses is, it’s kinda hard to deny Jesus exists when they are leading your army.
No Byleth means no living proof to Claude that the church is full of it.
@@personontheinternet2164 My problem is more that Hopes Claude shows no curiosity beyond the bare minimum even though that was an established trait of his from the beginning in White Clouds. Instead, he just chose to take Edelgard at her word because it suited his immediate goals with no further introspection.
I understand why they wanted us to play as all the advertised lords, but the way they bend over backwards trying to make Edelgard a hero in her own route just does not work. Her role is so clearly intended to be villainous as the invading party that it just feels nonsensical trying to make the player feel justified in anything that they're doing. None of it ever feels right. I played Blue Lions first, so naturally I tend to favor that route more than the others, but even Verdant Wind as a story is something I can get behind. There's nothing in Edelgard's route that I can make sense of.
It would have been one thing if they were pushing her as the evil route but the idea of the tyrannical dictator being the supposed good guy in the end is something that has never sat well with me.
Edelgard's route is about breaking through the status quo. The way the world functioned clearly wasn't right. Aside from the whole "world is ruled by lizard people" thing it was clear that the Crest system was extremely discriminatory and harmful.
It's more of a "for the greater good" type of story. Though I wish they developed it a bit more, not sure why CF was so short compared to the other routes. Even the Agarthans were defeated off-screen in the epilogue.
I think it's more you balance her out so she doesn't become a full blown tyrant, and instead she wants a united Fodlan that gets rid of their Crest focused society, where people can rise or fall on their own merits
@@chrisdiokno5600
However, in a stunning show of utter stupidity, her merit based society will become dominated by people with crests again almost immediately.
Remember, crests are literally superpowers. It's easy to forget since most of them do basically nothing in gameplay, but, if you take two equal people, then give one a crest, the one with the crest becomes much, much stronger.
All she's done is remove the formal rule, but not changed the actual result of that rule.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 yah, her system's is the same as ASHNARDS for crying out loud. In addition, the crest system was only put in place out of perceived necessety... not even RHEA likes it, the descendants of the ones that killed her family exalted with those sins swept under the rug? but she keeps it cause she doesn't want a witch hunt against them. In other words if Edelgard just TALKED with Rhea or Hanneman or Claude or Linhardt etc. she'd realize there were plenty of diplomatic solutions that didn't involve a massive war even siding with the dubstep cult to make it happen y'know the people who killed their family
The church was just not evil enough to remotely justify her war
I feel like they should've made the church more morally grey maybe even fold the dubstep cult into them then Edelgard would have more of a motive to destroy them and better highlight the choice between the different approaches to fixing things. But nope... they kinda did almost nothing wrong and could have been dealt with via discussion rather than... violent overthrow (besides not like the crest system was mandated by the church plenty of places didn't place inheritance over crests so it more feels like the issues are more on an area by area basis)
Edelgard's war: completely unnecessary and fixes nothing in the long term
Once I learned that Edelgard says in a tea party conversation that she plans on disinheriting her entire family (if she has one) and just handing off the Empire to a random person she likes, I realized that she really didn't put any thought into this.
MOST empires decline or collapse due to a succession crisis, or due to envy over different factions being left out of succession. The reason we switched from elective monarchies to hereditary/dynastic monarchies was that everyone knew who was going to be the next ruler, and that no one could REALLY change it.
Then there's the issue of "what even IS a meritocratic monarchy", raised by there being absolutely no way a society without the printing press or the Internet can do mass vote-tallying. She makes any sort of democracy harder by abolishing the nobility, when traditionally it was the nobles who voted. But sure, we can't have an actually functional elective monarchy, because the Seven voted on who would get what position after teabagging her father.
th-cam.com/video/uJij5YuvjPg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=5VFBVlaesb5IxOX3&t=254 From what I've seen fan translators talk about, the Church of Serios' obvious hypocrisy of "don't be a jerk unless we tell you" was something added in by the English translation. Literally, the book talking about the Church's doctrine is actually longer in the English version and includes stuff like that. In the Japanese version there is no hypocrisy in the Church's position, which... Honestly, that just makes me want to finish up my Japanese studies even faster, because while it might just be small one-sentence changes done by the localization team those small changes have HUGE implications that have seriously damaged the discourse around the game in the English-speaking internet.
My first route was Crimson Flower, same with my roommate who played it around the same time. We both felt like a poorly written cartoon villain the entire way through tho. Could not vibe with that route at all. I was about to never pick the game up again because I thought it was so bad (my roomate never even finished it), but then I read about Azure Moon online and decided to try that one. And I've been in love with the Blue Lions and Fodlan ever since.
Imagine if instead of being forced to open trade by the US and realizing by themselves that the noble classes and samurai were wrong and it was time to completely redo their system. Japan was forced to change by the US through a violent war. That's the crimson flower route. Won't work at all
Nice argument, unfortunately logistics don't exist in Fodlandia.
This was a fun watch! I'm a big CF/SB fan but you bring solid points of scrutiny overall.
That being said, there is very little evidence that the sneaky molepeople are responsible for the super secretive Imperial version of history as all points their infiltration in the Empire as it's currently known is a very recent development overall (otherwise you would think the Imperiam family would have turned against the Church a heckton sooner).
What the game and even many developer interviews suggests is that, while Wilhelm was Rhea's biggest ally against Nemesis, dude was never told by Rhea *why* she hated Nemesis guts so much to the point of establishing a massive smear campaign against him with the intention of gaining an army she needed to kick his ass (which is perfectly understandable given what Nemesis and co. did with dragons once the dubsteppers leaked the secret that dragon bodies could be harvested for weapons and superpowers).
As a matter of fact, Nemesis' Class description straight up stating that he waged war against Seiros under an argument that can be summed up as "I'll free you all from that witch's lies!" all but states that poor Wilhelm more or less had to come up to his own conclusions given dragons were blatantly aiding his war against Nemesis and all.
I genuinely think fans who like Edelgard will defend the empire despite how they would never defend said empire for what it does in any other circumstance. it's Edelgard they like and this is simply her homeland thus they feel the need to defend it. but "evil empire with fascist, imperialist goals who declares war to regain lost territory and annex foreign nations" is so bad in every fiction that it's ironic Edelgard fans will defend it just cuz they like her and thus feel the need to defend anything that connects with her.
People liking edelgard but hating on hitler will always be funny to me. They both basically the same type but edelgard is more likeable bc anime women pretty
Finally someone who agrees that Funeral of Flowers is the best boss theme!
I finished crimson flower first then played all the other routes and slowly realized how insane Edel is. Siding with an organization that dropped nukes is not it.
I think it's more she wanted to gain their trust to get them to let their guard down, as much as she hated it, and she can also destroy Rheea
So youre saying that europe and the rest of the world should turn against USA?
@@chrisdiokno5600 telling them she's going to stab them in the back at every opportunity is certainly a choice if that were the case.
@@Tenebrio-Morio TBF, to them, they likely didn't take her seriously as a threat
@@chrisdiokno5600 yes, it's very convenient they were too dumb to live.
Before I watch this all I feel is a ton of happiness at picking the bulbasur of the 3(Claud)
Bulba-crew represent.
You're right, my opinion on Edelgard hasn't changed since I first got through the game with the Black Eagles, I don't like her.
I personally think Crimson Flower is the victim of bad/rushed writing. There are many issues with the plot that are covered up by lazy and quick bits of information
@1:33 Hubert would buy it,
and then resell it for a higher price.
I view Edelgard as a female version of Ulfric Stormcloak from TES V. Both are very charismatic leaders, but are also woefully short-sighted war mongerers.
But at least I'll give Ulfric this, at least he only waged war with the Imperials in Skyrim, and not the entire remaining territories of the Empire. Edelgard took "I'd rather betray the world than be betrayed by it" to heart from the looks of it.
Ulfric is literally dimitri. A traumatized soldier who stands opposed to the empire using conservatism to rally his forces with a grudge against the empire.
@@firenze6478honestly Dimitri’s ending also seems like it would be Ulfrics perfect ending. An empire united by the old system while kinda reforming it and ready to take on outside threats
Faerghus and King Loog didn't receive help from the Agarthan's when they rebelled against Adrestia. The Kingdom had the most relic weapons so they wouldn't need it. That's basically just propaganda from Hubert found the in the Abyss Library that Linhardt tells you to take with a grain of salt.
Except they did. The literal fact that Ferdinand read about Pan, a mysterious figure that helped Loog, and how this rebellion actually ended up weakening the Empire and causing problems with the Church, and learning about the new relics like Balthus's paralogue, it's pretty evident that TWSITD were Loog's benefactors.
@@0axis771 There's nothing saying that Pan was a Slither and that King Loog received helped from them outside of the propaganda that Hubert is seen spreading in the Abyss and that NPCs living there comment on. Again, even Linhardt tells you that most of this stuff is probably fake. Hubert is the only one who uses the term TWSITD. Pan is also a historical figure so Ferdinand bringing him up once isn't damning either.
@@emmastokes64 Stop pushing the headcanon that the book was written by Hubert. Hubert was never in the Abyss library for that book to even exist.
Linhardt doesn't speak the absolute truth. Linhardt himself does not know everything. He assumes that these are fake cause he simply doesn't believe in them.
However, the books that talk about the notion that Loog was able to somehow get a large enough army to rebel without the Empire noticing, having new Relics which are supported by Balthus's paralogue when he mentioned the history of his Relic, and the fact that Ferdinand mentions that Pan is a figure that is not well known, only supports more about how this WAS TWSITD-involved.
The book revealing Pan being an Agarthan only makes sense why Pan would want to not be well known in history.
@@0axis771 It's not headcanon lol. You literally get told Hubert is in the Abyss spreading propaganda and also see other Adrestian's like the Death Knight and Metodey terrorizing the people living there. The actual headcanon is that Pan was a Slither and that Loog got help from them. The biggest red flag that shows that's not true is that Hubert is the only one who calls them "Those Who Slither In The Dark" which is the term the propaganda book uses.
The Cindered Shadows DLC was a big red herring to bait Edelgard fans into thinking the church is super evil but they took the bait and it ended up not being true
On Combat At Tailtean Plains in crimson flower Dedue gives the soldiers crest stones that he found in the castle vaults and Dimitri gets upset at him for him because clearly he knows probably one of those things that’s passed down from to king to king. This conversation triggers if you don’t defeat the Paladin that’s in front of Sylvain on that map and he transforms into a demonic beast.
Not to mention the obvious that adrestia was still the Agarthans enemy and they wanted to destabilize the empire so that it’ll be easier to divide and conquer which is what they ended up doing in present day by infiltrating and taking over the empire and kingdom and they almost did it with the alliance by pretending to be someone from house Gloucester and setting up Claude’s uncle and the heir to be killed, but they didn’t count on lady Tiana being In almyra and Claude coming to the picture.
Maybe a video on your favorite FE Three Houses lords?
Also, Wilhelm’s account is more likely a result of not being aware of the whole Zanado-fueled vengeance or the Nabateans vs. Agarthan blood feud it stemmed from. His account is more likely an honest BUT VERY IMCOMPLETE account of what was going on.
And it wouldn’t have mattered if Edelgard had the full story because for her, the system the Church held up was the problem. She might somewhat understand why Rhea did what she did but it doesn’t change what she created.
Also, in regards to the scapegoating of the people of Duscur, Arundel (Thales in disguise) and Cornelia (Cleobulus in disguise) were the ones basically in charge of investigating the matter (for lack of a better term) so they had a vested interest in dismissing Dimitri’s account.
Despite what the video may suggest, Edelgard is one of my favorite characters. Although, Claude is still the best lord (due to Three Hopes, more debatable if we're just considering Three Houses).
I can *kinda* see that about Wilhelm, but Three Hopes seems to suggest a closer relationship between the Saints and Wilhelm than just that. Although that is speculation, I admit.
As for the scapegoating of Duscur, I was more speaking towards the Kingdom as a whole. Not a single lord or noble took what Dimitri was saying seriously? Even to the point that Ingrid, one of Dimitri's closest friends doesn't believe it at first? Sounds like more than just Arundel, Cornelia, or Rufus covering things up.
@@TheHearthGuy
Never said you did.
Always was a Dimitri guy myself. Best character and Dimileth is one of the handful of pairings I have any strong opinion on.
I can still see the other sides, or at least I try to.
Eh, close or not, I doubt Rhea would share that part given how painful it was. She didn’t reveal the truth to Claude and Byleth in GW about it until she was forced to by Nemesis making an unwanted (for Fodlan) return. Hell, she doesn’t even mention it to Byleth in SS.
Tbf, there were already tensions between Duscur and Faerghus. Hell, the entourage was heading to Duscur to make peace. The disguised Argarthans and Rufus could easily frame it as Duscur attacking under false pretenses. Plus, a few scattered groups of Duscur men were used as scouts by the attackers which made it easier for them to fool people. I assume most people assumed his memory was affected by his trauma. Plus, among those we do know who didn’t buy it (like Sylvain), there wasn’t anything they could do about it at that time.
@@stevenchoza6391 I am a Dimitri fan, especially considering he gets, well, really the only arc between the lords in Houses.
I can see you point about Rhea, although I could have sworn she or someone else told Byleth some version of the story in SS.
And you make solid points about the Tragedy being a set up for the people of Duscur.
Love your video essays keep up the work
Referring to molemen as Skaven wasn't something u thought I'd ever hear but nah it check's out
Go beast-thing, kill-maim sleepy goddess yes-yes!
One thing that actually took me the longest time to find out in this game. Her route has her state, outright, that it's the jerks who experimented on her(and some would argue she's not SURE they're the ones...but by the time she starts her revolution, she KNOWS it, and is pretty open about it to Byleth) are the ones who convinced her of the church's evil.
But...she has zero reason to trust them. So did she EVER have any corroborations of their statements? Like, you could say she can just look out her window and see them, but you really can't, as it's the Crest system, and the oppressions she's against. Neither element is solely the church that's at fault, and in fact, her own empire is the worst at both.
Now, some took that to mean I was already against her...and to be fair I was, and dismissed it as bashing her, but I was VERY much looking for a reason to trust her, to see her as being in the right. And to be fair, she DOES have one piece of evidence that says the Jerks who Slipper in the Dank are in the right.
A diary by her...I want to say grandfather but it's been a while. It's brought up in one of her conversations with her man number two. Now, that IS a reason, though flimsy, at least it's there. And again, she WANTS the jerks to be right, since if they aren't, then she's wasted her precious life on a plan that not only works against her own interests, but has killed people she pretended to love...I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt in some ways, but her actions mean any 'love' she expresses, even to Bilateral, is a lie.
This video is fantastic and outlines every reason I feel like Edelgard is going to fail sooner or later.
Three Houses/Hopes has absolutely led to both the best and worst discussion I've seen in the fandom, I think it might actually be more divisive than Fates was in its day.
My first route was accidental silver snow and even on normal i learned to hate the church not cuz of story but because of the final boss lol but if i had to pick which lord ending i prefer its dimitri, because it seems more like dimitri would cooperate with outside world given his retainer is from Duscur it would be slow but i think that change is far more stable than claude which just opens the border unconditionally which i think would cause more of a rift than help even tho i think claude means well.
And between their desired reforms, I'd say Dimitri's desire for a more represantative government is a lot more sensible idea over Edelgard's desire to steamroll over every foundation of the current system.
As vague as his own plans are, at least Dimitri has no interest or desire to fully destroy the system he wants to reform. As he knows the reforms he wants will probably take so long to implement he'll probably be long dead after they're done.
Edelgard wants Fodlan and the Empire to be the way she wants it to be today. She has no patience or long-term idea in how to build-up her reforms properly outside of destroying any and all opposition to her plans and ambitions.
Love the video, small disagreements here and there but just want to compliment the quality of everything.
My main issue is that in Manuela's support Edelgard says she's fine with keeping the religion, just not the Church itself. And with Byleth having the Sword of the Creator the religion itself could come back as a unifying force, just not in the same, political, way. Also think you kind of underplayed just how powerful Byleth is, Byleth alone can keep literal armies down alone.
That being said these ONLY apply to Crimson Flower, where she has Byleth's raw power and the Sword of the Creator as a rallying point.
if ya'll internet people got teleported into the Fire Emblem Three Houses or The Hopes timeline, how would ya'll choose which fation to side with? i'd probably go with a "which faction gives me maximum personal gains" policy myself.
Id just try not to die, trade knowledge of modern technology to anyone willing to protect me from those who sizzle in the hizzle. Assuming I can even understand Fodlanese
@@capadociaash8003 would trying to join the upper class make that happen quicker?
@@vinsonli302 you’d attract their attention to the fact that another being from beyond the stars with unimaginable technology has just arrived in their world
@@capadociaash8003 true, but there's a possibility that negotiating with them could grant a better standard of living for ones self in their world and improve the standard of living for their world in general in the process.
Hey bro. Eldegard is the only lord to hug you post timeskip.
I’m objectively correct about my favorite route 🤣
Claude slow dances with you pre-timeskip, regardless of gender. He’s the best
Fellow church chad.
Perhaps for most the first playthrough would colour the view. But I went in with the mindset of "best for last" and started with crimson flower. I was biased for the blue lions from the very beginning based only on trailers and other prior information
In terms of the balance of power in Edelgard's routes, I do believe that while rebellions are likely they are much less dangerous than the prior instances that gave rise to the non-Adrestian polities to begin with, and the reason lies in the main difference between Fodlan's feudalism and the real-world kind: the nobles really are All That TM in Fodlan.
Faerghus has a horrible climate and no riches to speak of, but what it does have in abundance is Elite Crests left over from Nemesis. With the power of dragon blood and dragon bone (seriously, Seiros, you had centuries to clean that junk up), the northerners can punch well above their weight class. Adrestia can only hold on against them in a straight fight because it has an overwhelming manpower advantage, and if the Kingdom gets its shit together and fields its big hitters as a single solid core Adrestia can forget about winning. Which is why, crucially, Edelgard's plans always involved an element of treachery within the Kingdom, whether through Cornelia's coup in Three Houses or through mass defections in Mach in Three Hopes. Notably, these plans are big gambles and do in fact go awry in Edelgard's routes (through Rhea going to Fhirdiad and/or Thales pulling away support in CF, and through Leeroy Lonato in SB), requiring Anime Protagonist Intervention to salvage.
By the end of Edelgard's routes in either game the nobles of Faerghus are in disarray. Crimson Flower involves the death of Rodrigue, Ingrid (if unrecruited), Dimitri, and Gustave, permanently taking the Relics of their houses off the board. Similarly, Three Hopes involves a massacre of the central Faerghus nobility in Chapter 11. Claude's betrayal is itself not necessarily catastrophic. While there was tension between the Empire and the Alliance, that doesn't mean that the Alliance was united in its opposition to the Empire. Indeed, House Gloucester wouldn't join Claude's new rebellion under any circumstance, Lysithea outright supports unification, and Edmund's position is rather unclear. Even if Claude escapes Aillel, the Empire's victory there is decisive and will send a strong message to Leicester that will discourage their strongest warriors from properly rallying. I wouldn't even bet on Holst throwing in with Claude there, and would actually bet against Holst resisting further if Claude dies.
That is, in the end, the main point of Edelgard's war plans. The objective isn't just to take over, it is also to bleed the Crested nobility to the point of breaking their ability to mount effective resistance. The shadow war with the Agarthans in CF is unlikely to be a big drain either, as the very presence of the Javelins of Light means that realistically the only way for that war to go is for an overwhelming attack on Shambhala to occur pretty much immediately after the fall of Fhirdiad, something that the destruction of Arianrhod can enable by providing the trail for the Javelins. While the reforms themselves are an administrative challenge that was never attempted in Fodlan's entire history (what with Rhea basically adopting Nemesis's system whole cloth), the military component is not the likely point of failure.
Now, to be as fair and balanced as my Edelgard-supporting self can be, I do not give Edelgard good chances in a no-intervention scenario. While the sheer divergence between Houses and Hopes shows that there was a wealth of opportunity for things to deviate wildly in 1180, Edelgard's war plans were always long shots that depended on her enemies not being at their best, and indeed mostly revolved around moving her enemies on all sides into each other's way to have them sort themselves out without requiring her to apply the very limited resources that she considered actually reliable. Indeed, the only thing that stops me from saying that the Agarthans have the advantage there overall is their own comical ineptitude (and lack of defined endgame).
Plus, it's arguably the prescence of Byleth that tempers her from going far off the deep end. Plus, IIRC, her goal is to end the Crest System, and kick off a meritocracy
as an edelgard stan, i totally agree. having a good understanding of large scale issues and intending to fix them all within your (brief) lifetime kind of _inherently_ leads to a situation where even amoral pragmatism won't save you from having to fight an endless, nearly unwinnable war of attrition-- something that edelgard herself is tactically, mentally and morally prepared for, but it doesn't become less true just because she's self-aware
the fact that, short of literal divine intervention, she's effectively an underdog despite being the autocrat of the continent's largest empire is a big part of what makes her so compelling. helping a hopeless revolutionary actually achieve her goals is very appealing as far as shameless power fantasies are concerned, but i also like her in the other routes where the more realistic thing happens and she ends up dying with a lot of blood on her hands and even more unaccomplished goals
I played dimitri house first and think that every leader is correct in their views despite their flaws.
Now to address some things from the video:
12:04 japan went through a period like this just fine, a couple of rebellions by the "old guard" who were upset at the restructuring of society which resulted in a couple of tens/hundreds of thousands dead but propelled japan from feudal society to industrialized great power
13:46 m!byleth will take over as regent until his and edelgards child is old enough to take the throne after which byleth will become the new archbishop
16:09 mongols fought multiple countries at the same time during their invasions of europe, subutai was just that good. Fighting on multiple fronts is basically an everyday occurence in any total war game on higher difficulty.
Also since edelgard wants a crestless society she achieves her goals even in the routes in which she dies.
Thanks for the video.
This world needs a sequel bad.
Please no.
It wouldn't be the same without Billy Kametz as Ferdinand... Gone too soon... But I agree, a rewrite would be nice, but after that, bury it to the ground to finally put it to rest.
As someone familiar with historical revolutions like the ones in France and Russia, there is at least the chance that Adestria will be reformed after Edelgard is done driving it to the ground... But *only* after a huge fuck-off civil war that engulfs the entire continent, resulting in either fragmentation that puts all of Fódlan back to square one, or a Yugoslavia scenario where multiple ethnic and religious groups are extremely prejudiced against one another because they're forced to be united instead of allowed to live in separate nations.
Frankly
I'm pretty sure CF just leads into a massive Almyran invasion that nobody in Fodlan has the ability to resist, because they are mostly all dead, have broken into civil war, or are just not unified.
When your neighbor is like, Gengis Khan with dragon-mounted archers, you REALLY don't want to have post-war devestation and such, y'know?
21:13 I always figured that dagger Edelgard pulled out was some kind of tell for the bandits, because surely she had some kind of plan in case of brigand charging her with axe ready..... Right?
My guess is if Byleth and Jeralt weren't there Edelgard would just reveal that she is the flame Emperor and had Kostas kill Claude and Dimitri
@@thebookworm6343in which, Kostas looks too stubborn and hot-headed to listen. She dies easily.
@LordThomasPassion Okay I have to ask, what is it about that scene that is definitive that Edelgard would have objectively died to Kostas in that instant?
She saw Kostas, she pulled the dagger in preparation to retaliate, she got into a defensive position, and considering she has two crests crests I dont see him overpowering her easily?
It would be one thing if she tripped or had her back turned but that wasn't the case.
When I first played Three Houses, I was going to play Crimson Flower first: but then I chose Verdant Wind instead because Claude and the rest of the Golden Deer made me think of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure🦌
Thank you JoJo, for saving me from choosing the losing side first✊
Didn't Ionius get his power taken away because he was grabbing power for himself after he put down the Rebellion that screwed over Lysitheas house? And was responsible for the bad things that happened to House Ordelia? I believe that's why Lysithea doesn't blame Ferdinand's dad for what happened to her and her family in their houses paralogue.
I don't think that Jeritza would take over as the Black Eagles Professor. We can see that Manuela is the Black Eagles Professor and Hanneman is the Blue Lions professor unless Byleth chooses one of those classes, in which case they then teach the Golden Deer.
Following that logic, it seems that Jeritza would naturally teach the Golden Deer. I don't think he would get the same option as Byleth to choose his class especially as this isn't his first year teaching (technically).
Then again, I don't think that would really change much. It's unknown what role Jeritza was exactly supposed to play that he couldn't as a Weapons Instructor. If anything, as a Weapons Instructor, Jeritza had more free time and leeway with what he could do.
Also, I don't think he would kill Flayn as Edelgard could still show up as the Flame Emperor and stop him.
I'm not sure if the Remire plague would still happen, it's not clear why it occurred in the first place, however Kronya killing Jeralt (or someone else close to Edelgard) would likely happen as that occurred as a warning to Edelgard not to get too buddy-buddy with her classmates. And like you said, Kronya likely wouldn't get caught (or even revealed perhaps) which means Solon wouldn't use her for the Forbidden Spell of Zahras. Meaning that both Kronya and Solon would likely still be in play. And, like you said again, the Attack on the Holy Tomb likely wouldn't occur either which means Edelgard has additional time to prepare for the attack on Garreg Mach.
That would also mean, however, that the attack on Garreg Mach would come as a surprise to Rhea and her defenses wouldn't be as strong. That, however, would likely backfire on Edelgard like you said. In all other routes, Byleth helps with the defense of Garreg Mach and is able to repel the initial attack. It's only when the Agarthan reinforcements show up that Rhea takes things into her own hands and transforms into the Immaculate One, however Thales has accounted for this with Demonic Beasts stopping her, allowing her to be captured. When Edelgard and Byleth together overwhelm her with their initial forces, Rhea transforms and flees instead, which is likely what would happen with a surprise attack without Agarthan reinforcements to subdue her.
After that, the war would still stalemate and slowly start to weaken the Empire until they collapsed, or the fighting would continue for an indefinite amount of time. Who knows?
Another point to note is whether Edelgard would still become Emperor early on and place Duke Aegir under house arrest. Either way, it would likely not change anything.
As a side note, I actually read a fic regard this topic. It hypothesized that the war would last for 10 years with the war turning against Edelgard's favor after 5 years and slowly giving way to the Church and Kingdom forces. Edelgard would hold on for as long as she could and even hold the territory around Enbarr for an entire year before her forces completely crumpled and she would be captured alive, even in her Hegemon form, where she is then to be executed (and subsequently falls in love with Rhea... it's a weird fic...).
Crazy fanfiction, you had me onboard on what war in Fodlan may end up being like without Byleth or Shez intervention only for it to end with monster girl lesbian kissing one another, the tonal whiplash, we went from an analysis of a continent-wide spanning conflict to a fetish porno.
8:25 other than the tragedy of Nuvelle happening (same situation as Duscur but with Constance), I’d probably agree
On the matter of CF/NDI timelines, I don't even believe in the validity of CF's ending.
I don't think Edelgard gets to her peace, even if claude and dimitri go poof.
I firmly believe that Free the Soul of N would be able to beat Post-war Edelgard, through the several powers they hold, and that The Left eye of Nemesis would be reborn.
I want the three houses version where we can say f*#% it and just side with the mole men.
Awesome video) 👌 Edelgard is a very good villain and antagonist. As a playable character not so much due to her being said villain/antagonist.
She's like Arvis, but less competent and is defeated far sooner then him.
Very big disagree. Edelgard is an incredible character and works really well as a protag because it's not a black and white story, especially when TWSITD are removed. Fodlan is incredibly corrupt and rotten, and Edelgard is ultimately the one who finally decides that enough was enough.
Also, Arvis was WAY more incompetent, given that he literally did NOTHING about the clearly evil group. Least Edelgard moved to completely eradicate them, ensuring peace. Arvis lets them stick around and ultimately let them gain power, bringing Loptous back and untold cruelty.
Arvis had to fall in line. The lopt cult threatened to reveal his lopt blood which would make his kingdom assassnate him immediately. After getting everything he wanted, he was basically a figurehead while lopt actually ran things.
@@personontheinternet2164 That's not true. He had plenty of power and could have dealt with the Loptous cult, but the dude took PITY on the clearly evil cult that had a hand in Deirdre's arrival and clearly wanted him to have kids with her.
Kaga even revealed that Arvis discovered his relation and STILL did nothing to stop the revival of the Loptous Empire despite how he had every chance and power to do something.
And he had the support of the people who loved him for how he helped them in their time of need.
Arvis was just made to be incredibly stupid and he decided to do nothing against the evil cult. Edelgard was in a far more difficult position than Arvis was, but she at least struck back after she was able to secure her power.
@@0axis771 you forget that the people of Jugdral were _TERRIFIED_ of Loptyr coming back, to the point that many countries (Jungby most notably) regularly go on witch hunts for people with loptyrian blood. Jugdral's fear of their return is so palpable that the few remnants of people who genuinely believed in Loptyr were forced to hide in abandoned ruins in the Isaachian desert to avoid persecution. There's even the handprints of children on the walls.
Arvis only discovered his relation moments before shit hit the fan and Julius started attacking Deirdre and Julia because of their Naga blood. Prior to that, he was none the wiser. He did suspect something was off when Manfroy started pushing for Arvis to create heirs, but his suspicion was that the Loptyrians wanted to turn his kid into a puppet ruler. If he had known they were attempting to resurrect Loptyr (and consequently, discover his relation to Deirdre), he never would have done the deed.
Even though Arvis had the full support of Grannvale at his side, he also swore to King Azmur that his firstborn son would inherit the throne as soon as he was of age. That's part of why the Loptyrians timed things as they did. They only gave Julius the Book of Loptyr once his position on the throne was solidified. Any other time, and Arvis, as the current king, would have stamped it out. They struck the moment Arvis followed through on his promise to King Azmur because he would have been powerless to stop what came after.
Arvis, despite being blackmailed by the Loptyrians, did everything in his power up until that point to keep them in line. The Loptyrians weren't able to act as freely as they wanted in Part 1 because know Arvis can just as easily expose their existence as they can expose him. Arvis even uses his connection to Saint Maera as leveraging that, even if they tried to expose his Loptyrian heritage, his blood stems from the person who rebelled against the old Empire and helped bring it crashing down alongside the Crusaders. And those that recognized that would still rally and support him. despite his heritage.
Arvis wasn't an idiot, and I argue he was in a far trickier situation than the one Edelgard chose to put herself in. The difference is that Arvis, despite his best effort, was struck down at his most vulnerable moment, and as a result was forced to watch everything he worked for come crashing down. Edelgard had literally no reason to side with the Agarthans, and willingly chose to ally herself with them anyways despite knowing what the consequences would be. You tell me who's the bigger idiot here.
Arvis canonically gets screwed over by the Loptus Cult because he lets them be while Edelgard in one way or another always royally screws over the dubsteppers riding her conquest train even when she's killed before them, so I beg to disagree.
Yo new edelgard video just dropped
"Boofire's excellent video" HA!
I always took Edelgard's plan as an start to break the chains of Rhea, whether not it succeeds or not is up to the people that will follow Edelgard after death. Now this being Fire Emblem, it prolly will to a point. Until a 3rd party takes down the Adrestian Empire.
Thing with Three Houses (and Three Hopes too) is that every opinion technically speaking good but also is horrible and WILL lead to problems in the future (I’d say that’s especially true if Edelgard wins but I admit i’m biased lol). So much can be discussed about this but sadly in the from darkness of the Fire Emblem fanbase there is only war.
Oh cool! Someone who basically played the game the same way I did T-T
0:44 Ironically enough, my first route was the Azure Moon route but I find myself agreeing more with Edelgard's ideologies than Dimitri's. 😶 Make of that what you will.
There are exceptions to every rule. And it was more a point about why people get attached to the houses they do.
how tf is that possible? She literally caused more warcrimes in that route alone compared to all other lords from all other routes COMBINED. Unless you somehow seperate her caused warcrimes from her ideology?
@@ludwig-alice I do separate ideologies from war crimes funnily enough. What you believe in and what your goals are isn't necessarily the same thing as what you did to accomplish said goals even if it can lead to your supposed actions.
It also doesn't help that I used Sylvain a lot on my first AM playthrough and a lot of his more serious supports were about how resentful he was to crests and how that correlates with his family and how he sees other women. After trying out the other routes and witnessing how the crest system has screwed over a number of other students (Lysithea, Marianne, Dorothea, Edelgard herself etc) I can't help but be in agreement with Edelgard in a sense that the crest monarchy is clearly broken and should either be eradicated or at the very least have the cultural importance of crests be less significant.
Would I have started a war over it by teaming up with a literal cult to seize the academy in power over this? Probably not! But I agree with her view on the crest system in Fodlan, that much is for sure.
@@hylianfelldragon1308 Lysithea and Marianne aren’t victims of the crest system, if anything they’re relatively unaffected by it. They’re victims of their crests themselves, not of the systems built around them; to them, the crest based society is an inconvenience at worst.
In fact, the only characters I would say ARE victims of the crest based society are Sylvain, Hanneman, and Ingrid. Everyone else’s struggles are usually tied to nobility as a whole, not the crests their legitimacy is based off of. And of all the factions the Alliance is actually the closest to dismantling the nobility due to the fact that merchants are becoming powerful enough to rival noble houses and even are able to vote in roundtable conferences (i.e Marianne’s adoptive father, Lord Edmund, I believe he’s called), which is what led to the collapse of nobility and feudalism in the real world many times.
Imagine getting knee-deep and insults about what you personally prefer in a route in fire emblem. *Looks at fan base.* Can’t imagine it at all.
I always thought that byleth would take over for edelgard but then i thought a tad bit harder and oh, byleth isnt god anymore. Sucks to suck.
If you choose SS eldgard, it is the worst. In CF, both Dimitri and the church suck. If you play, AM eldgard is the worst, and lastly, if you play VW everyone sucks
You know, the title annoyed me, but I decided to hear you out. And I appreciate, as an Edelgard fan, that you argued with a relatively impartial stance and tried to argue the facts and logic as much as possible.
I'll try to argue the points you made using Crimson Flower, Scarlet Blaze, Golden Wildfire, and the no Byleth/Shez scenario.
Warning: LONG post. But that just shows how I did enjoy your video.
*- Crimson Flower:*
When you argued about how Rhea did maintain peace for a very long time, I feel that it has to be understood that Rhea's form of peace is incredibly dubious and arguably unethical in nature. Rhea's form of peace involves a lot of things where she allows nobles with Crests to do almost anything they want (see how a commoner mentioned she lost her whole family because of a noble) and also the much corruption in the nobility that has been going on. It also involves a lot of suppression of technology and keeping people ignorant. As we clearly see, Rhea's peace involves some of the cruelest things happening overall by the present day comes in. Not to mention how isolationist policies are never good long run.
Also, it is important to note that Edelgard dismantles the Church, not the religion. Even stated in Ferdinand's support with Mercedes that Edelgard allows people to continue to practice their faith and religion. So even after the war in CF is over, people's identity of following the same faith will not be stripped from them, so there is still a good aspect. Furthermore, because Rhea tries to burn down the Kingdom's capital and Edelgard goes to help the people, it's made clear that the Empire will be seen as saviors to the people of the Kingdom as a result of this.
Furthermore, if she eradicates TWSITD, there's no dark secret faction that will bring about instability. Is Edelgard's future guaranteed? No. But it will bring about the best form of peace that is arguably the most ethical because no immortal is controlling the people, the people are now able to have free education, and there's no evil group that will be able to mess things up.
*- Scarlet Blaze:*
A great point you brought up about how the Empire overextended and couldn't fight two fronts, which Edelgard realizes is a mistake and ultimately understands the importance of cooperating with the Alliance/Federation. However, you are right that there is tension in trust given how easily Claude jumped ship the moment that Byleth convinced him otherwise. However, the good ending of Scarlet Blaze does ultimately make a point to show that Claude will support Edelgard as she finishes off the Kingdom in a final stand.
After all, in SB, things went as Hubert personally hoped, where Aegir and all the remaining people of the Empire who opposed Edelgard banded together. This allowed Edelgard to ultimately crush every rebel faction in her Empire. With Thales and Rhea's supposed deaths, both TWSITD and the Central Church lost much influence and power. The Kingdom, mostly beaten down, can only make a weak final stand before being crushed by Edelgard and Claude completely.
The thing to note is that recruiting Byleth results in Edelgard having a chance to talk to Claude and get to know each other a bit more. And Claude learning that Edelgard is not truly as ruthless as he thought her to be, when he learns that Edelgard doesn't want Rhea dead. This chance where Claude learns a bit more means that some trust has been built between them. Hence why it ends with Claude and Edelgard reaffirming their newfound friendship.
*- Golden Wildfire:*
I agree. This is arguably the best route in my opinion and a personal favorite. Claude holds all the cards and can force the Empire and Kingdom to hold peace. With the Federation defeating the Central Church once and for all, the Empire lost its reason for war. And Edelgard owes Claude a favor. And Claude has so much unity of his nation because of this victory that even the Empire and Kingdom cannot dismiss him.
Claude also knows about TWSITD and can get Dimitri to help once more with Edelgard to eliminate the dark forces. Ultimately, there can be a begrudging form of peace that might be a bit unstable but has genuine merit behind it.
*- No Byleth/Shez:*
I dunno. Without Byleth, Edelgard would easily kill Kostas. Kostas being dead means that the bandits will scatter like in 3Hopes. Then that means like in 3Hopes, Jeritza is the professor and thus can track down Monica.
Even if you argue that Monica cannot be saved, Edelgard can use Jeritza to masquerade missions to undermine TWSITD and keep tabs on them. Edelgard wouldn't allow Flayn to be killed, and the Creator Sword would come into Edelgard's possession, but Thales will note that without the Crest Stone, it's unable to be used, and likely will modify it so that Edelgard can use it.
And if Edelgard has more time on her hands in the Academy, she could work to secure more alliances with others. Namely, she could end up being able to work something out with Claude. Claude also would not be as confident to take things on his own and might secure a working relationship with Edelgard because there's no Byleth to put all his hopes on.
---
Anyway, great video and if you read all the way here, I hope that you enjoyed my points.
First: Based Golden Wildfire fan. Love to see it.
Second: I really enjoyed reading your comment, it addressed things in a very clear and straightforward way and I appreciate the even-handedness of it.
Some of the points do come down to interpretation since we obviously can't know what exactly happened after the end of the game, but I will say that I doubt any sort of alliance between Claude or Edelgard would be likely. Both are far too secretive, distrusting, as well as ambitious to try and let each other in on their whole plan from the get-go. In Hopes, Edelgard only lets Claude know some of what she knows after she allies with him from necessity.
As for how people would approach Edelgard after CF, I believe there'd still be serious resentment. Its true that she only got rid of the Central Church, but the Central Church is the one that most Kingdom citizens are loyal to in the first place. As I mentioned in the video, that much resentment during a politically and socially unstable period is a recipe for disaster.
All in all, great points and I love to see some constructive discussion.
@@TheHearthGuy Yeah, no matter what, Edelgard 100% will have to be prepared to deal with the resentment. Even if her Empire prospers in the long run, there's a big mess to clean up and scars that simply will never heal.
And I think it was the point of all the routes, whether 3H or 3Hopes. No routes will come out perfectly. It's messy, it's chaotic, it's harsh and cruel. No routes are perfectly righteous and just. Whether you are the instigator or not, or even if your cause is righteous or not, war always leaves behind a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
Even if Edelgard was right, If I was Byleth I would just be like "I don't care, you killed my Dad" and side with Rhea.
Because she is partly responsible for that.
@@MagiaBased Except Edelgard didn't. Hell, the people who killed Byleth's dad tortured Edelgard and killed her siblings.
@@0axis771 yeah and she's still stupid enough to help them. . .
Seems like Fodlan had a lot of problems just like Thedas has.
Edelgard's empire should last a least a few generations before regions try to breakaway. After the conquest all the talented commanders and generals are either dead or on her side. She is abolishing the class system so the common people will be on her side. Even the Agarthans have been canonically eradicated.
The common people are on her side for like four months, before the "meritocracy" is immediately dominated by people with crests, who, reminder, do actually have minor super powers, and they realize that the war was for literally nothing, as far as they can see.
What I don't like about three houses and I guess by extension three hopes is that it dumps you in the middle of a mess between monsters and forces you to choose even though you are supposed to be a teacher and thus impartial. Why should I care about any of these groups when they are some combination of nuts, moronic, and outright immoral?
Reading the story I never understood how people thought her plan would work. Even in her route the war takes at least 6 extra months showing those who slither in the darkness have enough time to get nemesis and their army ready since Rhea wouldn't save us from the lances.
Plus her route sucks. Boring one note and quick. Surprised it's the one they didn't want to flesh out more but even the developers knew she was a girl and used that to beta fans
Crimson flower was never planned to be a route during the initial design phase for the game. They added it in later bc the developers ended up wanting to explore a route where Edelgard is not the villain.
When it comes to Crimson Flower vs Scarlett ablaze. i think Crimson flower Empire would crash and burn because Edelgard would start her new government that would start fall quick because the nobles would just use connections and money and black mail that would just undo Edelgards plan and create another war! Not to mention, Edelgard in Crimson flower doesn't listen to anyone other than Byleth. Byleth, who essentially is a Echo chamber because they do not go against her keeping secrets and lying, so Crimson flower Empire is DOOMED for Another war. in Scarlet Ablaze empire, She has the same plan but this time she is more open for Suggestions from Allie OTHER than the MC because she was shown concequences for her lying, even if it was very short and maybe could be dragged out a bit. In the supports and possibly on screen, Shez would voice his/her disagreements on Edelgards plan and opinions and point the errors that could be Fixed and she is actually listening to Them! I think Scareltt Ablaze Empire might actually have a chance at being in true peace! Especially since this Edelgard will actually listen if her Friends tell her if there is a problem in her plan.
Edelgard's main problem is keeping secrets and lying to everyone and wanting EVERYTHING to be under HER control because it is hard for her tp trust others after the life she had. I think Byleth makes things worse since they pretty much make her issues grow rather than have her fight that inner demon and brings the empire down because of it. Shez and Scarlet Ablaze forcer Edelgard to stop her shit and force her to fight that issue and tell her friends the truth! Given that her echo chamber is not with her this time!
I mean if the empire has their own version of the NKVD... (Hubert LOL) Maybe her enemies will "Magically" disappear before they can even react, I can see Hubert already thinking of that scenario and with the use of fear-mongering and connections of their own, could just be enough to wipe out the opposition before they can even form any coalition, you can never know with this kind of scenario, I mean in real life we thought Trotsky was gonna rule the Soviets after Lenin's death, but here comes Stalin out of nowhere using the same tactics I mentioned and he got into power without too much violence, just enough to make sure everyone follows, but not too much that it ended up with a Russian Civil War 2 electric boogaloo...
And after a literal continent-wide spanning war with most likely, millions of casualties, only mercenary companies would be willing to take up arms and put their neck on the line for some nobles, people wouldn't be willing to go against their emperor to fight yet another war of bloodshed after already fighting a grueling conflict that pretty much ended up in a stalemate for five years, there are some of course, but not many at this point.
@@quirinoguy8665 Hubert is still human though, just like Edelgard he will one day pass away and without him and Edelgard, the nobles will do the blakmail and shit and it will all backfire hard. This is the fate of crimson flower, Scarlet Ablaze has a chance of fighting against this fate and having a stable empire. This all soley comes down to Edelgard being willing to hear others opinion and listening to them, which she is shown to do.
Scarlet Ablaze makes me happy Byleth is not the main character because all they did was be an Echo chamber for her and have her not confront her issues. We see the Byleth consol and help Dimitri confront his issues and Claude most likely faced his issues in his route before Byleth awakened and Silver snow is a Byleth-focused route so it urks me how Byleth helps Dimitri but acts like a useless Echo chamber for Edelgard
putting Funeral of Flowers above God Shattering Star is a wild take fr
Edelgard is the best
isn’t it kinda implied that crests disappear in crimson flower after rhea is defeated that would mean that edelgard should be around a bit longer
I'm pretty sure it was just Byleths crest that disappeared
i finished all paths last week, silver snow first, crimson flower last. Edelgard was right, the church is a corrupting influence by holding so much power and not keeping the aristocrats in check. every female student is another example of how the "nobility" were all no good and the system needed to be replaced. Annette is the only one who isn't in some way a victim of the nobles, the crest system, the power struggle, or the power abuse, but because of a workaholic father, and Hilda i suppose. Ferdinand is the anomaly, going by the ideal vision of how nobles behave. Edelgard was right but her method had too many holes it was too easy to fail, this makes her both right and wrong for starting the war without probable chance to win. Edelgard screwed up her war by making about about empire vs kingdom and alliance. if she started it spreading the message and trying to reform against the crest system and anyone that wants to continue it to abuse the power, INSTANTLY she easily recruits lysithea, bernadetta, ingrid, mercedes, sylvain, marianne, caspar, and possibly dorothea. everyone else would theoretically should be neutral to this war. all she needed to do was to not start the war, but spend her time at the academy to learn and know the history of 2/3 of the students there and she would know how many heirs she would have joining her side. this then becomes a war of children vs corrupt parents.
stay safe the edelgard loyalists will come for you, I pray to the goddess that you are safe
Edelgard will always be the empress
My first route was Black Eagles (because Empress Edelgard is hot) and my take away was "Yep, we're the baddies" 😂
Lol yeah I'm with you bro. Go to BL if you want milquetoast classic good guy Bluehaired (Blue-themed with Dimitri ig) Lord. Sometimws I don't wanna be a good guy I just wanna fight as a baddas girl. I knew well from the start Edelgard is a bit screwed in the head but she looks the badass to me among the 3 lords. I mean how often you got an axe wielding girl lord compared to Number #36489 blue eyed handsome blonde prince?
That being said I love em equally tho for diff reason, Edelgard for my fucking axe-wielding mf emperor, Dimitri for my development and angst needs and Claude for... being Claude lol. Idc about their morality or whether they're right or wrong--there's no right or wrong, only stories.
Frankly, IMO CF is the most sustainable route besides Church Route with a divine ruler being likely immortal since Byleth is reincarnated Sothis.
Claude doesn't give a fuck about ruling anything, dude literally gives up to Edelgard on friendly terms and if left alive will calmly leave as if the war that cost him all his "friends" rages on as if it never mattered to him, dude is a sociopath one bad day away from starting a war for fun, you can't convince me otherwise.
Plus he literally brings a foreign army against half the continent... to end racism... against conscription based armies. I'm sure half the continent with dead family members or friends will be okay with people who participated in killing them...
Dimitri is heavily unstable - mental illness doesn't just leave because more trauma got added on top of it. Dude is literally more likely to start another war than Claude is.
Meanwhile Empire starts painful process of slowly embracing democracy. Will it be a clusterfuck? Yes. Do democratic nations go to war far or have rebellions far less often than monarchies? Also yes. Is it way less likely do destabilise since you'd need enough people to vote psychos into power instead of a psycho simply being oldest king of current monarch. Hell yes.
Sure, keeping status quo could be claimed to be more stable but with Agarthans around if war didn't break out they'd simply go back into hiding and start a war some other day.
In CF Byleth is no longer divine. And Edelgard has a very short expiration date on her life. That means she needs to shift, not just the Empire, but all of Fodlan into a new sustainable normal while also fighting a shadow war and selecting a new Emperor who won't be corrupted being that her ideal Emperor will be all powerful.
@@elevate07 Except all you said seems to be wrong.
1. Byleth is still divine, Why? Because Rhea is not the god and to give crests to humans she had to go with blood transfusions and human experimentation so she had not the power to create or remove crests - the person that had said power was Byleth. Byleth had Crest of Sothis, not Seiros so dissolution of his/her crest stone makes no sense - CF destoryed crest system, not crests and stone did not require Rhea since crest was not her, suggesting it vanished due to Byleth's will for world to be free from crest, starting closest to center of wish, so to say.
Lysinthea's endings seem to confirm it, always mentioning short lifespan, fading into obscurity where anything would happen or actively finding a way to cure herself... except her Byleth endings outside of CF that mention lack of crests but not removing them, which might mean Byleth just willed them away.
While it could be a stretch Byleth was a zombie so something had to power him/her once crest stone dissolved itself, becoming basically Sothis 2.0 that makes Byleth the god and as such restarting own heart seems easy.
2. Edelgard expiration date no longer applies is she wins the war.
Lysinthea can be cured, hell, her ending with Claude says he abdicated the throne of Almyra and went adventuring to find a cure, even if we fully ignored the fact Edelgard was dying due to double crests which likely could be wished away by Byleth her condition was curable by a dude travelling and investigating ways to remove powers from people, she has state apparatus, universities, Hanneman and Linhardt, both of which cure Lysinthea in their paired endings, are imperial nobles...
Nah, her expiration date is BS, which seems to be confirmed by her ending with Hubert saying THEY spent rest of THEIR LIVES together suggesting a very similar lifespan instead of saying Edelgard spent rest of her life on Hubert's side or something.
Dimitri also plans to continue the crest system. I love him and his route, but faergus as a nation sucks, and that’s not really his fault, but he does nothing to fix the issue. In azure gleam, the game ends with a clear indication that Claude will start another war with the church once given the chance.
Found the one who slither in the dark
What we have to consider is that the Empire's revolt against the Church of Seiros was written long before Edelgard took the throne.
For the longest time, the relations with the Church were strained because Rhea sided against the Empire (her ally in the War of Heroes) in favour of the Kingdom during their war for independence.
She brokered a peace treaty between them, but only under the condition that Faerghus make the Church of Seiros their official religion, essentially ranking her above the king.
So the Empire loses a ton of land to the rebels (who were assisted by the Agarthans, Pan was Loog's tactician) and Rhea gives herself more power at their expense. All this after Wilhelm fought alongside her previously against Nemesis.
So Rhea, being the figurehead of the Church of Seiros, now has authority over both the Empire and the Kingdom, allowing her to rule unquestioned, as standing up to her would drag in the other nation (as evidenced in 3 Houses and especially in 3 Hopes, where Faerghus is unwillingly drawn into the war in the latter game, willingly joining in the former because of Dimitri's mental breakdown). She could literally disregard the laws of any nation and operate unimpeded and unquestioned, making the position of Emperor, King and the Alliance's roundtable nothing more than a figurehead. She also created the toxic society that revolved entirely around Crests and did not use her authority to chastise or rebuke nobles who abused their power and status, instead allowing the corruption to run rampant.
Rhea never truly cared for humanity, viewing them as ignorant and barbaric and unable to govern themselves. And when we consider that Sothis herself wasn't much better in 3 Hopes (having not lost her memory, she becomes much more authoritarian and ruthless, demanding that Byleth submit to her, which would completely erase Byleth's mind, effectively killing them, and she even preys on their fragile emotional state after Shez kills Jeralt, if you don't recruit them).
Also consider that Sothis was actually an invader, as she did NOT originate on Fodlan, having arrived from space. She establishes herself as a goddess and creates her own brood (the Nabateans), which was heavily implied to have overthrown the existing societal order and placed them above the native humans.
The way Rhea tells it is that Fodlan was a wasteland before Sothis arrived. However, Rhea has been known to lie about history in order to push the narrative that Sothis was a good goddess and the ultimate authority (thereby giving herself ultimate authority) and we also need to remember that Rhea was the youngest out of all the first generation Nabateans, meaning Sothis had already established herself by the time Rhea was born.
However, the existence of an Agarthan pantheon contradicts this, as an organized religion implies the existence of a functioning society prior to Sothis's arrival. So the claim that Fodlan was an empty wasteland and that Sothis was the progenitor of all life is completely false. Furthermore, her claim that they were wicked and sought power over Sothis could also be caused by her own bias, as she was very young when the massacre at Red Canyon occurred, and someone witnessing those events would likely draw that conclusion. However, as we've established, the Agarthan civilization was deposed by Sothis and the Nabateans, so it's highly likely they instead rebelled against the invader.
Remember, when Byleth sides against Rhea, she declares them all heretics and wicked souls, she doesn't hesitate to lambast them as pure evil and refuses to consider that she could ever be objectively wrong in her judgement. This is further exacerbated in Crimson Flower when she sets fire to the town, filled with innocents (shocking even Catherine, who is completely loyal to her).
So, what this all means is that, other than Those Who Slither in the Dark, Rhea is the single worst thing that ever happened to Fodlan and is the source of all the problems with their society, as she is the immortal tyrant that has ruled since the beginning of the Empire's history.
So whether or not you think Edelgard was justified in her war, it WAS necessary. She was never going to step down from her position, especially after her experiment fails, it was only her imprisonment during Azure Moon, Silver Snow and Verdant Wind that she does so, an imprisonment that would not have occurred were it not for Edelgard.
This is more evident in 3 Hopes, as she maintains her position as Archbishop in the Azure Storm ending, since Byleth never reaches Garreg Mach and Rhea never recruits them. In both Golden Wildfire and Crimson Blaze, she is removed from her position forcefully.
So yes, maybe the Empire falls, whether to infighting or becomes something different through societal change (maybe instead becoming a democratic nation), fundamentally, the outcome is still better than if Rhea remained in charge, as she stifled progress and change, something Claude points out.
Fantastic comment. Rhea really gets a lot of leniency because she's hot dragon milf with a huge rack. I also suspect recent real world events resulting in uptick of conservatism + religious sympathy (people see it as a return to stability, mirroring the video posters opinion on the pros of keeping the church in power) influence this bias. In truth, Rhea is almost comically shady and insular to the point even her own brethen (Seteth) question her motives.
She is probably best described as a psychopath, only thinking of her own goals (reviving Sothis, keeping the lowly humans 'in check) and immediately lashing out against anyone that holds a contrary position, usually violently. I always found it telling and ironic that the amnesiac Sothis found Rhea suspicious and warns Byleth to stay clear of her.
In the past I used to argue she possessed some positive traits, such as how she is doesn't seem to exhibit bigotry based on ethnicity or nation or her philanthropy and adoption of wards/orphans. However, deeper psychological profiling reveals these are in fact actions intended to benefit her in the long run. She isn't racist in the normal sense simply because she views all humans with contempt. She rescues and grants her blood to numerous warriors so they will become indebted to her. Its likely this also served as a control group for her experiments. In CF we also see these soldiers granted her blood transmogrify into beasts when she goes insane in her dragon form (to be fair, this may be have been unintended/unknown factor). She adopts orphans and political/war prisoners like Catherine and Cyril, creating a cult of personality around her and thus loyal fodder.
Being honest I kinda think Fodlan's screwed no matter what ending you go for:
Azure Moon leaves it in the hands of a literal madman whose backers wont lift a single finger to ever stop him.
Silver Snow leaves it in the hands of a person whose closest job to governance beforehand was 'first year teacher' and is now god king. Also enshrines Crest system harder than ever.
Verdant Wind is just Silver Snow, but also the leader of the alliance reveals he was only using it to become king of Fodlan's biggest outside enemy.
And Crimson Flower is Crimson Flower.
Isn't Dimitri literally not insane anymore at the end of Azure moon? That problem evaporated mid-plot.
@@lpfan4491 No, his confession ending specifically has him state he's still plagued by hallucinations. He just pinky swears hes not going to listen to them anymore.
@@HeavySighSA Calling someone a "literal madman" for having schizophrenia is incredebly reductive, and Dimitri most definitly shows an ability to function despite his condition at the end of Azure Moon. The term used for him in the ending also seems to agree with that, being "savior king", and the ending says he spends his life ruling justly over and reforming Fódlan.
@@33link333 Dimitri straight up dies (and without interference takes half the houses of Faerghus with him) in every ending save his own because of his brain problems, and if we're going to ignore Crimson Flower's ending to say Edelgard would inevitably fail, we also have to cast doubt on Dimitri recovering from his worst aspects instead of doubling down on them after being retraumatized by his adoptive father dying to an imperial spy.
When you have the Leader be the female version of the Chud Soyjak,don't expect it to last long.
Your whole argument hinges and assumptions. And those assumptions are implied to be wrong by the game outright stating that Edelgard is successful in her routes in the end.
And BOOFIRE is pretty infamous in the community. Hardly an "excellent" video.
Man, I was WONDERING where you were! Must suck seeing a different Edelstan steal your thunder in this comment section, eh?
@@Hewasnumber1
I don't crave attention. I do not even think about such things bothering me.
Do I know you?
Lets be real, Nemesis is the true hero of the game.
Everyone Else: "I fight for the future I believe in."
Nemesis: "God Shattering Star Starts."
(Liberating humanity from the beast called god so his name could be remembered throughout history as humanities savior king.)
Lberating humanity for the sake of personal glory and pride. 😂
Though in all seriousness, it is kind of nice to have a character who does "the right thing" for the self-serving reasons.
Just as villains can have good intentions, there can be selfish heroes.