I sure get your argument on zoanthropes but man do I love a 6 man with the neurotyrant to rapid ingress for some massive damage. I've had a lot of success with them wiping anything heavy from one side of the board and holding an objective afterwards. Though maybe the buddy i typically play against just doesn't respect them and I would do worse against a more experienced player.
Yeah I love 6 zoans and a Neurotyrant. I run 2 squads. Between them getting sustain 1 and lethal hits with a hive tyrant nearby they own. You shoot at a squad of 5 those blast weapons suddenly go from average 12 shots to 18, a squad of 10, 24 shots..then lethal and sustain, hitting on 2+! Combine that with more invasion swarm buffs for 5+ fnp they last long enough. Not to mention I overwatch a ton with these guys, the neurotyrants 2d6 shots combined with the zoans average 12-24 shots that even in overwatch every 6 is lethal and sustain (because these buffs aren't just your shooting phase). With a hive tyrant nearby you get overwatch or fnp strat for free. Yes they are pretty costly points wise, but durability, and versatility of shots is great. And the neurotyrants ability for +1 to hit works for melee too, combined with sustain and maybe lethal and synapse +1 str, they go from I rarely bothered to roll their attacks to I kill a few marines every fight back.
They’re also great in Nexus. Walking a blob of 6 and a Neurotyrant up the middle with a Hive Tyrant ensures that anything your opponent has in the center of the map WILL get bullied.
I like the VR Leapers for blocking the mid and enemy infiltrators and redeploy them with alien cunning. But thats quite expensive to be fair. But I just started Nids last October so I have to use what I got ;)
try group of 3. infiltrate behide ruin in nomanland. if go first advance and park to zone block enemy just like gargoyle jail but can do in turn 1. if go second still okay as objective monkey and they more tough than homogaunt. just cant compete at cap and less atk.
Yes i have one built, it’s very cool looking and the concept it plays in the game is interesting and unique. But I’m focusing on painting my units I’m actually planning to use for my first game. I would like to use it on the future tho
Amazing video man, I've been using a jormangandr themed assimilation swarm list and I'm quite enjoying it; I've been struggling with what to get and your videos have been a great help and source of wisdom
I’m going to have to disagree heavily on von Ryan’s leapers, they’re not there to kill but to infiltrate, harass, score secondaries, screen the flanks, do actions. Honestly, stealth really adds up. 2 x MSU is a staple in my list, opens up the movement lanes but screening out the opponent or clearing chaff and then often survive till the end.
You are right, but except for screening and caging T1, a 60 points lictor can do the same job with lone op. But they are not are struggling unit that is sure.
You're paying more for something other units can do either for cheaper or better output. I think it's less that they're bad, but struggle to have a more definitive role than either gants/gaunts for screening or infiltration+combat threat from your flavor of lictor. I think struggling is the perfect descriptor for the vrl in that regard. That being said, they're definitely usable. I like using them to be super extra annoying with their intervention. Playing "get down, Mr lictor" with them is super fun
I love the long videos ngl, I sit here and paint and listen to you talk about my favourite bugs it makes my night! I do disagree about the zoans tho, paired with the NT getting the +1 to hit and wound if BS’d, they are pretty knarly at taking down some bigger threats imo. But, love hearing your take on things too! I field tyrant guard now after hearing your success with 12 and I love them with swarmy.
nice to see some fresh thoughts as i am thinking about my list, currently getting into nids and 40, played aos before but nids are so awesome. my 3rd horde army, sadly, but well.
Great thing about Nids is that they can easily play every army style. Huge shooting platforms? Got it. Elite infantry? Got it. Horde units? Got it. Giant melee monsters? Got it. Everyone can have fun building out a unique Nid list they enjoy, or they can get everything and play whatever they want!
Have to disagree on screamer killer and rippers/would swap them with neuros. Screamers are the budget pre points up one eye melee blend (S11), 2 of them as distraction units or focus backup with neurolictors in vanguard or just in general them in synaptic and stampede are far more or a average. A 2x ripper combo meanwhile works as a terrain/path blocker to compliment the 1 bio spore really well with their relative wounds to pad out enemy alpha strike options for going second along with often enough usable to force objective dance/forcing enemy to dedicate more firepower or movement to score when escorting a monster (and for AS, even 3x1 just get the broodguard trigger is worth the 75 points, as it often makes at least 1 out of 2~3 enemy units worse by on average 40 points paying for itself in most games, no matter if one gets near or even no healing). Neuros meanwhile dont even work well as ablative wounds and compared to the regular cracklings are +20 spare points at the cost of 1 OC, 4 movement and loss of advance and charge (something that would easily cost 35-45 points in wargear days), only existing to pad out boxes, nexus lists that couldnt otherwise fill out its points or a Endless Onslaught/3k swarm player that insists on flooding their entire deployment.
For the first meh category all they really need to do itls drop the points, especially the Screamer Killer, 145 points is crazy high for its toughness and moveability considering its just a carnifex with 2 more wounds. Make it 125 points (just 10 more than a regular carnifex) and it might see some play, give it a 10" move and it might be pretty good.
I agree on 125. Even with 2+ Armour, its damage and defense do not justify a higher cost than the Haruspex. The advantage of the Carnifex is its great deal of variety in the weapons department, but its BS and lower wounds make its points cost fair. The SK does need to be more in line with that. I think it would be stellar at 125. At 145, it just suffers from the existence of the much punchier Haruspex.
The discussion about Hierophant melee struck my soul because it’s so painfully true. The Primarchs and other barely-greater-than-man-sized Space Marines get AP3/4 in melee and even greater Strength than 9 at times. Tyranids are so bereft of such options, and it baffles me. I don’t care how cool the Emperor’s Sword is or how much power the Lion has behind his swing. Tell me honestly that such an attack is going to have more AP than the force of gravity behind a Hierophant’s giant spear-leg. No, I’m not bitter… not at all😂
I find that Mawlocks are a great threat to the home objective of very agressive armies. Usually they leave a squishy infantry unit at home and the mawlock chews through that. If I had raveners in my collection I might use those instead since they have higher OC, but for now its the Mawlock that threatens the home objective :)
my haruspex dies before combat 80% of the time though my zoans are my goats. their 4++ is amazing and they do work for me 90% of the time while being able to switch rolls between anti tank and anti horde
He had tervigon in "they're fine" tier. Said some stuff about them being a bit squishy but noted an interesting combo of their termagant spawn ability plus assimilation swarm healing abilities to combo for a lot of termagant models returning
About zoanthropes .... I don't like them very much, I completely agree with you BUT In a tournament you will find some lists without many vehicles or tanks ... and then you will cry with you 2 or 3 tyranofex RC completely useless. Zoanthropes are flexible, they kill infantry and tank. I prefer 1 tyranofex RC + 6 zohantropes than 2 tyranofex RC. I really don't like playing them (maybe in Vanguard it is fun), but I cried too much having 380 points anti tank totally useless in certain match up.
Agreed, they're far more flexible than a tyranofex and in a swarm list they have the added benefit of providing synapse and a 6+ invul to your hormagaunts. It Doesn’t seem like much at first glance but I've had that be the difference that won me the combat many times.
question from a newbie for the hive tyrant full melee build : he said he would take scythe talons + whip/sword.... is that even "allowed" or better possible on the hive tyrant? building this seems....problematic to me space wise
On a Walking Hive Tyrant you can absolutely do that. If you watch any of our recent battle reports I use it all the time. The Flying Hive Tyrant you can only take one of the melee weapons.
@@maelstromgamingstudios yeah i just watched your deep dive on the tyrant, pretty wild. but where do u put the claws and where the bs+lw? claws up und the other down or the other way around so they are not in the way of each other or does in not matter at all and it's just looks?
While I mostly agree with all this (about 90%), it really does depend on the detachment and buffs nearby. Swarmlord just isn't survivable enough imo, also gw needs to make a cool model for this guy. Gargoyles are great, but I am constantly waiting for the gw smack down to nerf them. Tervigon I really want to be decent. I kinda hate how swarm play isn't really viable. Zoans I love, still costly but so versatile, without the neurotyrant I may not take them with it, hitting on 2+ is.. do good, and makes overwatching with this unit much more deadly.
Disagree with VRL rating, they are more durable than you would think, not comparable to Genestealers and Warriors, different usage, early board control, really good at pinning opponent down and restricting movement, you can use them to establish board presence and distract opponent while your 2oc chaff steal/disrupt primary
Man Tyranids are struggling ATM. Marines are like brick walls for me lol. Funny enough I can handle Necrons which I see most Tyranids losing against. Anyways great vid love your channel as a bug player since third edition
When going against T12 or 2+ saves you really have to focus on outplaying and making sure you delay the game into 5 rounds so you can score points. Its hard to sit out in the open and trade with Marines. Don't try to outkill, try to outscore and deny score which is a strong trait Tyranids have.
I had a long day, but nothing crazy. Honestly I think it's my camera saturation levels. Really brings out the red tones which make me look a little worse than I really am. 😅
I sure get your argument on zoanthropes but man do I love a 6 man with the neurotyrant to rapid ingress for some massive damage. I've had a lot of success with them wiping anything heavy from one side of the board and holding an objective afterwards. Though maybe the buddy i typically play against just doesn't respect them and I would do worse against a more experienced player.
Yeah I love 6 zoans and a Neurotyrant. I run 2 squads. Between them getting sustain 1 and lethal hits with a hive tyrant nearby they own. You shoot at a squad of 5 those blast weapons suddenly go from average 12 shots to 18, a squad of 10, 24 shots..then lethal and sustain, hitting on 2+! Combine that with more invasion swarm buffs for 5+ fnp they last long enough.
Not to mention I overwatch a ton with these guys, the neurotyrants 2d6 shots combined with the zoans average 12-24 shots that even in overwatch every 6 is lethal and sustain (because these buffs aren't just your shooting phase). With a hive tyrant nearby you get overwatch or fnp strat for free.
Yes they are pretty costly points wise, but durability, and versatility of shots is great. And the neurotyrants ability for +1 to hit works for melee too, combined with sustain and maybe lethal and synapse +1 str, they go from I rarely bothered to roll their attacks to I kill a few marines every fight back.
Imo they are just versatile, killing infantry AND tank. This is why they're still competitive.
They’re also great in Nexus. Walking a blob of 6 and a Neurotyrant up the middle with a Hive Tyrant ensures that anything your opponent has in the center of the map WILL get bullied.
I like the VR Leapers for blocking the mid and enemy infiltrators and redeploy them with alien cunning. But thats quite expensive to be fair. But I just started Nids last October so I have to use what I got ;)
try group of 3. infiltrate behide ruin in nomanland.
if go first advance and park to zone block enemy just like gargoyle jail but can do in turn 1.
if go second still okay as objective monkey and they more tough than homogaunt. just cant compete at cap and less atk.
@@cryptococcusneoformans2389 Yep at least an option to zone block in base T1 without playing gargoyle in Vanguard. Their main interest imo.
Such a shame that the Tyrannocyte and Sporocyst are so bad, love the model and they just feel like they're a big part of each invasion.
Yes i have one built, it’s very cool looking and the concept it plays in the game is interesting and unique. But I’m focusing on painting my units I’m actually planning to use for my first game. I would like to use it on the future tho
I wish they kept the overwatch 5 times out of phase for the sporocyst. I really didn't think it was over tuned and i would've loved to see it.
Amazing video man, I've been using a jormangandr themed assimilation swarm list and I'm quite enjoying it; I've been struggling with what to get and your videos have been a great help and source of wisdom
Im loving the tyranid content. I just started playing this edition and you and wnw are making learning nids a breeze
thanks for sharing your thoughts here, really helps me prioritize my painting for a better experience on the table top later.
I’m going to have to disagree heavily on von Ryan’s leapers, they’re not there to kill but to infiltrate, harass, score secondaries, screen the flanks, do actions. Honestly, stealth really adds up. 2 x MSU is a staple in my list, opens up the movement lanes but screening out the opponent or clearing chaff and then often survive till the end.
You are right, but except for screening and caging T1, a 60 points lictor can do the same job with lone op. But they are not are struggling unit that is sure.
You're paying more for something other units can do either for cheaper or better output.
I think it's less that they're bad, but struggle to have a more definitive role than either gants/gaunts for screening or infiltration+combat threat from your flavor of lictor.
I think struggling is the perfect descriptor for the vrl in that regard. That being said, they're definitely usable. I like using them to be super extra annoying with their intervention. Playing "get down, Mr lictor" with them is super fun
I love the long videos ngl, I sit here and paint and listen to you talk about my favourite bugs it makes my night!
I do disagree about the zoans tho, paired with the NT getting the +1 to hit and wound if BS’d, they are pretty knarly at taking down some bigger threats imo. But, love hearing your take on things too! I field tyrant guard now after hearing your success with 12 and I love them with swarmy.
nice to see some fresh thoughts as i am thinking about my list, currently getting into nids and 40, played aos before but nids are so awesome. my 3rd horde army, sadly, but well.
Great thing about Nids is that they can easily play every army style. Huge shooting platforms? Got it. Elite infantry? Got it. Horde units? Got it. Giant melee monsters? Got it.
Everyone can have fun building out a unique Nid list they enjoy, or they can get everything and play whatever they want!
I said the same thing about the winged prime after the Leviathan trailer launched.
Great list.. genestealers in assimilation swarm? They can get up to strength. 6. With the enhancement on the brood Lord
AND 5 attacks each. It’s beautiful.
@EmperorNapoleon1815 this made me buy a broodlord and genestealers
Have to disagree on screamer killer and rippers/would swap them with neuros.
Screamers are the budget pre points up one eye melee blend (S11), 2 of them as distraction units or focus backup with neurolictors in vanguard or just in general them in synaptic and stampede are far more or a average.
A 2x ripper combo meanwhile works as a terrain/path blocker to compliment the 1 bio spore really well with their relative wounds to pad out enemy alpha strike options for going second along with often enough usable to force objective dance/forcing enemy to dedicate more firepower or movement to score when escorting a monster (and for AS, even 3x1 just get the broodguard trigger is worth the 75 points, as it often makes at least 1 out of 2~3 enemy units worse by on average 40 points paying for itself in most games, no matter if one gets near or even no healing).
Neuros meanwhile dont even work well as ablative wounds and compared to the regular cracklings are +20 spare points at the cost of 1 OC, 4 movement and loss of advance and charge (something that would easily cost 35-45 points in wargear days), only existing to pad out boxes, nexus lists that couldnt otherwise fill out its points or a Endless Onslaught/3k swarm player that insists on flooding their entire deployment.
For the first meh category all they really need to do itls drop the points, especially the Screamer Killer, 145 points is crazy high for its toughness and moveability considering its just a carnifex with 2 more wounds. Make it 125 points (just 10 more than a regular carnifex) and it might see some play, give it a 10" move and it might be pretty good.
I agree on 125. Even with 2+ Armour, its damage and defense do not justify a higher cost than the Haruspex. The advantage of the Carnifex is its great deal of variety in the weapons department, but its BS and lower wounds make its points cost fair. The SK does need to be more in line with that. I think it would be stellar at 125. At 145, it just suffers from the existence of the much punchier Haruspex.
It still blows my mind that it started the edition at 180!
The discussion about Hierophant melee struck my soul because it’s so painfully true. The Primarchs and other barely-greater-than-man-sized Space Marines get AP3/4 in melee and even greater Strength than 9 at times. Tyranids are so bereft of such options, and it baffles me. I don’t care how cool the Emperor’s Sword is or how much power the Lion has behind his swing. Tell me honestly that such an attack is going to have more AP than the force of gravity behind a Hierophant’s giant spear-leg.
No, I’m not bitter… not at all😂
I find that Mawlocks are a great threat to the home objective of very agressive armies. Usually they leave a squishy infantry unit at home and the mawlock chews through that.
If I had raveners in my collection I might use those instead since they have higher OC, but for now its the Mawlock that threatens the home objective :)
That's a great point about the Mawlocs
Perfect timing
my haruspex dies before combat 80% of the time
though my zoans are my goats. their 4++ is amazing and they do work for me 90% of the time while being able to switch rolls between anti tank and anti horde
Good video keep up the good work.
Thanks for the great overview, but could it be you missed the Tervigon?
I'd be interested in your opinion here :)
He had tervigon in "they're fine" tier. Said some stuff about them being a bit squishy but noted an interesting combo of their termagant spawn ability plus assimilation swarm healing abilities to combo for a lot of termagant models returning
@@shishkabob984 Thanks for guiding me to the right spot, not sure how I missed that
FYI Bobby g also has the tyrant cp ability
About zoanthropes .... I don't like them very much, I completely agree with you BUT In a tournament you will find some lists without many vehicles or tanks ... and then you will cry with you 2 or 3 tyranofex RC completely useless. Zoanthropes are flexible, they kill infantry and tank. I prefer 1 tyranofex RC + 6 zohantropes than 2 tyranofex RC. I really don't like playing them (maybe in Vanguard it is fun), but I cried too much having 380 points anti tank totally useless in certain match up.
Agreed, they're far more flexible than a tyranofex and in a swarm list they have the added benefit of providing synapse and a 6+ invul to your hormagaunts. It Doesn’t seem like much at first glance but I've had that be the difference that won me the combat many times.
question from a newbie for the hive tyrant full melee build : he said he would take scythe talons + whip/sword.... is that even "allowed" or better possible on the hive tyrant? building this seems....problematic to me space wise
On a Walking Hive Tyrant you can absolutely do that. If you watch any of our recent battle reports I use it all the time. The Flying Hive Tyrant you can only take one of the melee weapons.
@@maelstromgamingstudios yeah i just watched your deep dive on the tyrant, pretty wild. but where do u put the claws and where the bs+lw? claws up und the other down or the other way around so they are not in the way of each other or does in not matter at all and it's just looks?
Is it only my problem that not seeing the join member button on iOS TH-cam app?
What weapons do you suggest for tyrant guard and why? Building 6 right now for my assimilation list 😊
I personally like the scything Talons, but I know some people take the crushing claws and have success with them.
This is probably a dumb question but I don’t know my stuff! Why is the hierodule not on there?
Heirodules got moved to legends, so they are no longer allowed in competitive 40k.
Still feel free to used them in your casual games!
While I mostly agree with all this (about 90%), it really does depend on the detachment and buffs nearby. Swarmlord just isn't survivable enough imo, also gw needs to make a cool model for this guy.
Gargoyles are great, but I am constantly waiting for the gw smack down to nerf them.
Tervigon I really want to be decent. I kinda hate how swarm play isn't really viable.
Zoans I love, still costly but so versatile, without the neurotyrant I may not take them with it, hitting on 2+ is.. do good, and makes overwatching with this unit much more deadly.
I see a Maelstrom Gaming Video I click, it's simple
Disagree with VRL rating, they are more durable than you would think, not comparable to Genestealers and Warriors, different usage, early board control, really good at pinning opponent down and restricting movement, you can use them to establish board presence and distract opponent while your 2oc chaff steal/disrupt primary
Man Tyranids are struggling ATM. Marines are like brick walls for me lol. Funny enough I can handle Necrons which I see most Tyranids losing against. Anyways great vid love your channel as a bug player since third edition
When going against T12 or 2+ saves you really have to focus on outplaying and making sure you delay the game into 5 rounds so you can score points. Its hard to sit out in the open and trade with Marines. Don't try to outkill, try to outscore and deny score which is a strong trait Tyranids have.
i think thats because marines are a bit OP right now with the new oath. Nids as a whole are near the top of play and win rates
The Pyrovore is crying rn
But why?
@@maelstromgamingstudiosno reason my mistake I didn’t realize you put the old sculpt so I thought they got left out
Lets goooooo
you always look tired, dude, you getting enough sleep?
He was probably up all night with your mom talking about what to put in the video.
I had a long day, but nothing crazy. Honestly I think it's my camera saturation levels. Really brings out the red tones which make me look a little worse than I really am. 😅
@@maelstromgamingstudios pay no attention to the trolls, you are doing great with the content lately!