It is fun but is it good? New Space Marine Codex Reaction.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2023
- How fun is the new Space Marine codex? Space Marine Steve and Tak share their thoughts on the new codex after having played a few games.
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They should have just given captains the ability to take a bike as wargear option
I bet they will bring him back as a new model
Or they could have brought a captain on bike as their war gear
Yeah they could just carry it on their shoulder.
Going to need a third page
Sad white scar noise
The white scares detachment works great with the space wolves stuff cause thunderwolf cavalry are mounted same with there characters
Yes it would! In this video we didn't talk about the effects it has on the other chapters and tried to keep it self enclosed to just Space Marines but yes, absolutely, Space Wolves with Stormlance looks like a lot of fun!
That Raven Guard detachment is interesting, being able to forward deploy a Gravis Captain + Aggressor party to burn up the center board along with Infiltrator support feels brutal. Back them up with the Warsuits and you have a pretty interesting list, especially with Shrike and some Jp Intercessors
Bonus points if the Infiltrators have a Phobos Librarian to give the whole unit Lone Operative. Can't drop within 12", can't shoot from outside 12".
It definitely looks like a fun detachment, that power to put some big brick up the field, take an objective early doors and have them tougher to shoot out early on by many units (so like their backfield stuff or heavier firepower is likely to be outside 12" so they are -1 to hit, and will have cover even if not in cover, then you could also add armour of contempt, so like AP2 weapons become AP0 and you are saving on 2s for say terminators) plus any units that already have stealth, they will cancel out any +1 to hit modifiers, so the army rule can then kick and they are still -1 to hit, so a lot of armies are hitting on 5s, even with buffs against certain units (like tau spotters rules etc. or guard orders). Also the ability to create another vect on a character, so you could have like a callidus assassin and a character with that enhancements to increase the CP of two battle strat tactics by 1, that is powerful.
I want to point out for Stormlance that Space wolves can bring multiple characters on thunderwolves :)
i'm thinking to bring 2 unit of 6 TWC, attached each with battle leader, 1 unit will lead by logan grimnar, and another unit will be lead by harald, a bit pricy but it's worth it and looks fun
Just started a salamander army and I couldn’t be more excited!
Me too! Leviathan was a great start, and now I know to get some tanks
The best part of this codex is how it make Steve and Tak to bond trough their love of space marines
The white scars detachment feels like they made the detachment rules before they made the decision to legend all the bikes as it really doesn't make sense at all. Having most of your enhancements and strats basically down to 1 character and two units (which can combine anyway) seems like an oversight to me. I really hope they open it up to jump pack units.
Great to hear salamanders are getting love. I've been painting up a successor chapter for them
Lol what? Salamanders are barely in the book. We had an entire supplement and support for successor chapters last edition. No idea what you mean by “seeing some love.”
@@RexTMichaelson I'm new to the game so I really don't know what's been out there before but talking with my friends they didn't have much information on salamanders so this is the most I've heard
@@RexTMichaelsonneither of the chapters are “barely in the book”, yet every detachment is themed around a Chapter in the art for it
@@phillipbritton3836 we used to have an entire book filled with lore, strats, relics, warlord traits, and tons of stuff. We now have 1 page and a detachment that anyone can use and doesn’t even necessarily demand a traditional Salamander focus on melta and flamer. You can run bikes and jump packs with this detachment and gain all the special rules and benefits even though historically Salamanders avoided those units and preferred slower, heavily armored infantry due to the high gravity on their planet. We’ve literally lost everything that made us special and been given close to nothing in return. The noteworthy Salamander durability? Gone. Our almost uncanny ability to miraculously survive when we should have died? Gone. Our fixation on purging the enemy through fire? Gone. In its place we’ve been rendered green ultramarines.
@@RexTMichaelson wow, that is rough to hear. I started off with space wolves in February last year. It was kind of a gifted squad but I enjoyed them. Now trying to get into my own group. I was just drawing to the salamanders maybe in a couple years they can give you guys back your uniqueness
Time to play my whole crimson fist Chapter with all that new stuff ! I can't wait!😊
The thing I never saw in 40k was that paint determines your army. Its this thing I see so many people talk about, but never saw it myself.
It’s only really at tournaments. They’re cancer
As a blood angels player I’m trying to figure out which one I want to try, while the white scars sprint and charge is the obvious pick…that salamander one…there’s something interesting there
Especially for Baal predators
sanguanary guard have inferno pistols or meltas or something like that. could be good
Can't wait for that Salamanders video! Thanks for going through the book
It is one of the next videos being queued up for our editor team.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience! 🙂
I think combat doctrine should have been the thing to replace oaths of moment only getting 1 army wide rule our rule being reroll hit against 1 unit sucks compared to other armys
Would love to see a Space Wolves Stormlance detachment. Thunderwolf calvary and outriders seem like they could be a strong combo.
Excellent review. Props to Steve for trying his best to hype up the underwhelming 1st Company Taskforce (but couldn't really tell if he was being sarcastic or not) 😅
Nice overview guys. Tak provided an astonishing advice for play the Imperial Fist detachment that made me reconsider his power level.
Keep it up
Wow, awesome video!!! You guys killed it!
"A balanced game " doesn't really mean anything to marine players because every single army in the game is balanced around killing marines.
I can't wait to run a space wolves list with the storm lance detachment, all those new mounted enhancements will go great on our wolf lords on thunderwolves.
Thank you for the Space Marines Codex analysis video!!
As an Iron Hands successor chapter creator with 5 Redemptors, 1 Ballistus and three land raiders with two predators and a bunch of first born dreads I feel a big armoured punch coming…….
Sounds like very good shooting followed by very good punching
I am so excited for my salamanders to hit the table with the new detachment!!! loving everything ive seen
I've done rough drafts for three lists, might do five total. Firestorm- 3Co, led by Tor Garadon, Raider Rush, and two Vindicators for fire support. Gladius- 2Co, healthy mix of units. Anvilus- 7Co. Hammerfalls, Devastators, Eliminators, and some battleline/transports. Might add 1Co and Vanguard in the future, but will need to invest an inordinate amount of money to do so.
Love the content that's been coming out! Keep it up!
Can't wait for the dark angels codex 10th edition comes out. For loyalty is, it's own reward 🦁💚
Infiltrators are also awesome with the imperial fist rule. Set them up on an objective and they just stand there denying deep strike and negating damage and getting plus one to wound
My counter argument for how they changed oaths of moment is the Eldar can still do all the rerolls in the world when not just choosing the result they want anyway.
We had a lengthy discussion that unfortunately got cut from the video but yes, the counter argument is valid that Eldar are still very very good. As a concern, I think if every codex that comes out has to be the most powerful or at least on par with the highest power, then it will be an arms race with each codex outdoing the next and leaving anything without a codex wanting. The hope, which is a big challenge, is there is a median with few exceptions.
@@PlayOnTabletop My concern is, GW also is not consistent with their core rules, such as Devastating Wounds, that basically put Custodes in the grave and then the point increase buried it. They’ll do their balance updates outside of codex’s so they can change the game as needed or more likely over and under correct factions as they’re represented in tournament wins. And if I remember correctly, I don’t believe Tyranids jumped to the top of the charts when their codex came out, and I don’t believe Space Marines could or would’ve done the same.
I like Anvil. Tanks and vindicare sitting in heavy from start, pushing hard forwards with assault units like Heavy intercessors and then deep strike with terminators and inceptors in the second round while keeping other important stuff in heavy. Though firestorm also seems pretty good.
Really want to see that salamander battle report. Their detachment sounds so fun. My custom painted theme army is going to be using the salamanders detachment forever. Flamers for the win!
I agree they should strive to stick to their mantra of 10th being less killy, more tactical, but that is not going to ever happen unless they give massive damage nerfs to the top armies which are super killy right now. Im excited for the codex, but Im under no illusion that its going to make Space Marines more competitively viable.
I love the codex with these detachments, looks so fun!
Don’t worry guys, we’ll get the old oaths of moment back in 18 months or so when our codex has been smashed into the ground by the 15th codex
Question for you guys. I was trying to look this up but can you still use Kor'Sarro Khan on bike for 10th edition?
STEVE 🎉🎉🎉 so, maybe my drop pods full of sternguard are pretty oppressive with full wound rerolls. I don’t care. It was awesome. I want index oath forever!
The transport strategems sounds awesome
I'm still gonna mainly run gladius probably plus I'm in the middle of making a raven guard army so will deffo be running that one soon
I would like to imagine having a set of Alpha Legion as loyalists and running these rules. :-P
Already doing it… and since it’s Alpha Legion, I can justify running special characters as AL characters mimicking them… also converting Omegon to mimick a Loyalist Primarch…😈
Space Wolves have mounted characters and thunder cavalry. You have to consider the unique units in other "detachments" that can join these generic ones.
Yes, we should have been clearer that we were staying focused within just the Space Marine codex itself. You are absolutely right that these detachments work great for other chapters that have their own supplement or codex.
The mounted detachment works for thunderwolf Cavalry and leaders. Much better than bikes
Love my 2nd company Blood Angels
I kinda wanna buy one before the video but I wanna buy it more now
The 1st Company Task Force sounds awesome however, I play Templars and our unique equivalents to veterans are Sword Brethren and I'm kinda sad I can't utilize Sword Brethren in that detachment to it's fullest potential as it's not a "Veteran" unit in name
Vanguard Detachment is going to be my go to
the space wolf have a mounted character that isn't an epic hero so they can use the white scare enhancement. Tyranids have an enhancement that affect psychic weapon but only the neurotyrant can use it.
It does feel like Space Wolves do benefit from Stormlance the most, or, Ravenwing. Both sound like a lot of fun to list craft and play. We were talking more self enclosed within the Space Marine codex with the restrictions.
Ravenwing running Stormlance is going to be gross.
I love the oath of moment but i guess its nice to have but i did play black templars without oath of moments and i can live without the re roll wounds
Does oath of moment work for salamanders flamer weapons?
I feel the dark angels would rock with the white scars detachment!
Did the codex change on the 40k+ app with the new codex? Or do you have to buy the codex to get update?
Kor'sarro Khan need his bike back xD As a White Scar Hero he is to slow xD
I tend to agree.
I love the detachment system. Even though each chapter has a unique specialty of warfare, the setting seems to be forcing each of them to adapt and use different tactics along with their normal style. It’s like the other chapters are forced to learn the Jack of all trades kind of warfare from the Ultramarines just to stay alive, and to me that makes sense. They’ll always be better at their unique brand of combat, but they have to learn other ways of fighting in order to survive the chaos of the current state of the galaxy
Edit: obviously this is because GW wants to make the game more accessible for people who like a certain chapter color scheme but want to play the way another chapter does, I just like how the setting kind of reflects that decision
Me a Salamander guy:
Sees Oath of Moment nerf taking away half my army's ability (OoM has no effect on flame) :(
Sees Firestorm Assault Detachment :)
Thunder Hammers seem to be going away (and right after I painted my Terminator captain) :(
Sees Adrax can finally lead Bladeguard :)
It's really a roller coaster here XD
I think Space Wolves would be a better army for stormlance detachment. You got more characters with the mounted keywords and more options for units.
I have the same Babymetal shirt
Mind sending the points cost of the Company Heroes? I wanna factor it into my list amount and won't be able to get the codex bought for a couple more weeks and am curious what my list is currently at
Saw a video about updated data cards, company heroes was listed (iirc) at around 95pts, down from 165 with the loss of the apothecary and all the weapon choices
if anyone is willing to answer this. from what I gathered from this is you can paint pretty much any legion and outside of using specific units that are unique to a certain legion you can play them interchangeably? I am thinking of starting into 40k finally. I have been torn between what legion I wanted to play since I wanted to start with loyalist space marines and love almost all of the legions from it. I actually was considering creating my own successor chapter and making its parent legion unknown so that I could just swap between whatever legion I wanted to play as for that match or tournament in theory anyways. I understand that it would mean again that I can't field unique units from different legions in the same match, and I would need the codex for each I choose to play. is that all correct? and if so how legal is that in more competitive play? would I be able to play in tournaments if I decided too?
I am super excited to start, But I want to figure out some of these details before I start.
Legions have been banned for 10000years in 40k (space wolves and black templates are not compliant). Your chapter is one thing, your detachment is another. The detachment dictates the army rules. As of right now the unique chapter units are not allowed to mix as you only get 1 chapter in each army. Tournaments have their own rules check with the event you want to attend. Have fun!
Nice
like you guys were more on the positive side even for the detachments that were not that great. i liked the storm lance as i want to do a big melee army. The half the strategems are only for mounted really hurts it overall i think. i guess you can just use the units you want with a better detachement
I think everything is fun in its own right with some detachments having clearer options and play styles.
All that the Oaths change did was kill variety in Marines armies. Instead of being able to take (for example) Thunder Hammers into a tank for fun because Dev Wounds and Rerolls I can't. Now I'm forced to go Chainfists if I even want to THINK about sending that same unit into a vehicle
"Tactical play, balanced play, themed play"... something I have not seen in 40k since I attended my first grand tournament in Baltimore back in the day. You actually got points for playing a "fluff" army, this allowed people that played for lore and hobby to compete with the min/max dice counters because total points wasn't based on units killed. As for the Imperial Fists don't forget they are "siege masters" ie move into positions and lay waste to the target and everything around the target. Sounds like the codex allows people to play the "Chapter Way" or the way of specific companies which is great.
Wish the terminator captain kept his wargear options. I assume they will be restored when assault termies get their inevitable update, likely in tandum with another termie captain sculpt. A la the new jump captain and assault squad.
the agency is what i like about heresy as well, legions are not beholden to their main tropes
though you can go hard on their tropes with their own rites of war
I'm confused. Early on, the need to be flexible with options and choices was talked about. Not having that makes things one directional (White Scars are worst offender). But when we got to the first company and said how the strategems only affect veterans we were excited because it was flavorful. Did I miss something? I personally am fine with the unique needs as it drives the flavor. Gladius should be the 'catch all' while the rest encourage a style.
The Stormlance problem is more so there is only 3 mounted units in the whole codex. There are a lot of veteran data sheets and phobos units so those ones feel less restricted
@@PlayOnTabletop I can see that. I can't make an opinion until I get the book. I do agree there could be more (I.e. bike captain.). Could be cool to have an 'elite' bike unit. Maybe more specialized to shooting or combat.
Am i the only one now, dreaming of 10 deathwing knights infiltrating mid-board? :D
OMG Tak Is BABYMETAL FAN! HELL YEAH!
I understand the change to oath of moment but unfortunately it really hurts the non codex compliant chapters. ie black templar.
It could be cool to see a Vanguard space marine ay vs vanguard Tyranid army and also how about endless swarm vs anvil strike force
While I hear that this was the intent of this edition.
That being lowering the killing power.
They haven't toned down the killing power. Eldar still Supa strong.
They only turned down the killing power on some armies.
Eldar haven't gotten their codex yet (I think it's in the next batch to be released), and toning down Dev Wounds is a big nerf to their firepower. You don't use a cannon to hunt a rabbit, but before the update, you would kill a warren.
@@shadowmancy9183 I play Sisters.
Sisters lost all their firepower and still die to a stiff breeze.
@@Redtecho You mentioned Eldar, I provided info on how they've been toned down. I played Fists last edition. I know what it's like to suffer under rules. On the big picture, this edition looks like it'll continue to improve and lead to a healthier meta rather than what we saw in 9th.
All Gravis Anvil Siege Force game when? :)
All Gravis? Hmmm... will have to do an inventory next time I am in studio
Huzzah! I know there are other people playing full Gravis armies. I think it might be more popular than you suggest.
@@PlayOnTabletop
SALAMANDERS LET'S FUCKING GO!!!
Cool
Even though these detachments are cool, it’s gonna be harder, nay, more expensive to play (especially for newer players like me) if you haven’t been collecting for a very long time. The detachments make very specific units better. And you’ll probably need multiples of them. Even though I like the different flavors; it’s always nice to have options, the cynical side of me feels like having people now run out to buy them was a factor. Lol. But I stress again it’s cool.
Just a friendly advice from someone, playing and collecting for over 25 years. Don't stress yourself, or try to hop on any Meta- / Hype- or Codextrain. Collect, build an paint what *you* love. The rules and metas and all are constantly moving, all your units will be good eventually. If you focus too much on what's the hot sh*** right now, by the time you've build and painted everything, rules and the meta will likely have changed again and in the worst case you're stuck with units/models you don't *really* liked in the first place. Just have fun with your hobby it's you're time (and money!) after all. :)
It's such a shame they changed the Oaths. Yes it was powerfull, but it wasnt game breaking.. It was very very rare i deleted a unit with Oaths in one turn
And now are Meltas are even more useless since we’re wounding most tanks on 5s. Even with rerolls, that was rare to accomplish
So, as a Space Wolves player who preordered the Space Marine Codex, I'm assuming there will be a Space Wolves Codex
The detachments look really fun and flavorful. My only gripe is Gladius is likely still the best detachment which was previously B tier at best. Now its been super nerfed due to oaths of moment. Feel like marines are not going to be very meta.
Idk if they got rid of it. But one the app post release of the codex. There still is a captain on bike!! Maybe there’s a misprint in your guys’ copy? I hope this doesn’t come off as rude, just trying to help
Thank you for trying to help. Note that the codex doesn't release until mid-October so the App is still pre-codex at this time.
Changes like oath of moment wouldn't hurt as much if GW was even slightly transparent about its decisions with the players.
Or, OR!! 10 man deathwing cmd squad with not one step back 😃
That is a very strong unit
@PlayOnTabletop I would have liked to see the Terminators bumped up to 6 strength, to put them pretty much on par with gravis and represent small arms bouncing off the bulky armor (gravis is better atm imo, especially for the points). But yeah, I love my deathwing command squad. Stick 5 shields and 2 cannons in it (plasma or assault works well), and it's very hard to move.
My name is Sai and I speak Flamers.
Salamanders for the Win!
Nice Babymetal tshirt Tak
Okay so stupid noob question
Can Dark Angels use rules and detachments from the Space Marine codex even though they have their own codex as well?
Dark Angels use their own army rule but can use detachments and those detachment rules from the Space Marine codex.
1st detachment had the lease amount of chat, I wonder why? Least of all, they fall, compared to all.
I am sad how much worse Bobby G is in 10th. He went from a straight monster and mega buffer to a mid tier buffer and mid-high tear damage output. The nerf is crazy with the new edition for Gulliman.
#excelence Love it!
Space Wolves Can't wait
I'm wondering if the gladius task force is still a good army now, i mean... it's the same as before but with a weaker oath of the moment... so weaker than it already was considering how hard it was for space marines... most of the new detachment seems way better and in some way i can understand the oath nerf for them ( can you imagine old oath with anvil ? would have been broken ) but for gladius is clearly a nerf since it doesn't got anything new to make a stronger gladius force, let's hope the point decrease will be enough to compensate that...
Tak plis give white scars paint recipe 😢
Prime white. Vallejo cool gray base coverage. Wash entire model with nuln oil. Shade and repair with Vallejo mat white. Err... then contrast baal red for all the red parts.
💯
I find it hilarious that the “White scars” detachment is more for Space Wolf” players than White Scars. White Scars have zero unique mounted characters and 3 mounted units in total: outriders, the ATV and the Chaplin on bike. It’s cool though. It is fluffy for White Scars to be ignored. 😁
The only thing that ruins detachment system for me is that divergent chapters can use it too. They get to use everything compliant chapters can field while having Way more options of their own...
Thousand Sons don't get to use all CSM stuff. I don't get why this should be different.
why no talking about Blood Angels? and why are there none on the Board
I like a lot about this book, but tbh several things disappoint me. I wish tactical squads didn’t suck so badly, and had a usable special rule to push objectives. Likewise I don’t know why they made the first company special rule SO BAD! Like you are basically not playing a detachment at all.
Tbh I would’ve wanted to be “locked to my chapter”. That’s the whole point. I’ll stick to my guys no matter the meta. It’s about the lore and the flavor.
What codex could be is a combination of chapter tactic with detachment rules. Not this.
Tak makes a good point. When it comes to Oath of Moment nerf it's important to write rules with the rest of the edition in mind instead of trying to design rules for the game currently. It might not feel good to lose power in certain areas of your army, but if we don't allow for nerfs then GW can only power creep and having every army become flavor of the month isn't fun either. The only thing I don't think I like is that these detachments are modeled off of existing space marine chapters instead of giving you tools to create your own. The Space Marine codex should be the make your own chapter codex, and let the founding chapters get their own. It feels kind of limiting when you can clearly tell which is the "Ultramarines" detachment or the "Salamanders" detachment.
Appreciate the thoughts! it was certainly fun in the previous edition with the build your own chapter and while yes detachments are modelled after existing chapters it does feel good to run an armoured heavy list with supporting stratagems while being Ultramarines. Hopefully, there is a enough variety within the detachments where players can play fun lists or even do different play styles depending on their mood.
A big reason they went this direction was because the custom chapters were unbalanced. Some traits were absolutely useless, some were good, others borderline broken. Add onto that, you’re a successor and get the relics/traits/units/rules of the founding chapter.
It was horribly unbalanced. This is better.
Oaths of moment change was good for the game, rerolling wound rolls take the dice game out of the game. Which is supposed to be the heart of the game.
I still don't like the change to Oath of Moment, if only because it is a nerf in a meta where SM are in the middle of the pack. SM do not need a nerf, Eldar do.
I don't agree with the statement that the chapters don't lose flavour. The majority of the first founding have lost a lot. Take ultras they have lost characters, a supplement, multiple strats and relics etc.
Bro I watched the entire video to hear you talk about 1st Company Detachment and you didn’t say anything about it at all! 😅
I agree with the idea of making the edition less killy and fun 5 turn games. But they took away killing power from marines, while better factions keep theirs.. (well bar ironhands detachment that thing hits like a truck)
Gladius with oath was 47 percent winrate now it will be garbage..
I really like the codex the flavor is there, but i still think the nerf will outweigh what we got. They didnt improve datasheets, bar aggressors
I'm also extremely disappointed with storm spear the enchancements are abysmal