Lin Dan's Best Form? (2008 Olympics)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- If you ask most badminton fans what is the best ever badminton performance, most will point to Lin Dan and his 2008 Olympic Final winning performance over World Number 2 Lee Chong Wei.
In fact, even Google believes this is the greatest badminton performance ever!
But is it?!
Because there are some who believe Lin Dan kept getting better over the next few years, reaching his peak around the London 2012 Olympics where he once again won in a repeat final as well as winning 2 World Championships and the Asian Games.
With it being an Olympic year I felt it was as good a time as any to look at this and offer my own opinion.
I'll be giving the reasons FOR it being the best Lin Dan, and the reasons AGAINST, and then come to my own conclusions.
#LinDan #LeeChongWei #Olympics #worldchampionship #youtuber #bwf #badminton #youtubevideo #youtube #badmintonlovers #bulutangkis
Thumbnail credit - @xi40tong (IG)
00:00 - 01:25 - Intro
01:25 - 6:54 - Reasons FOR
6:54 - 12:54 - Reasons AGAINST
12:54 - 16:07 - Conclusion
What side do you fall on? 2008 Lin Dan is the best, or is it a later Lin Dan?
But regardless of what you do think, one thing I think we can all pretty much agree on, and one thing I should have added at the end of this video, is that both "versions" were phenomenal and there is just no getting around the fact Lin Dan was a master of badminton!
Anyway, hope you enjoyed the video everyone :)
After watching nearly every match of Lin Dan, I completely agree with you on the conclusion. 2008 Olympic Lin Dan was in his best performance, but later Lin Dan's art of badminton was developed into a next level of mastery.
You should do an analysis video regarding his change of style from 2008-2010 (more explosive) to 2011-2015 (more tactical and rally based)
@@dianliu2109 and both were great to watch 😊🙌🏻
Both for a true LIN DAN ❤❤ FAN
2011 LD was a god. An absolute god. 2008 LCW was nowhere near what he was in 2011. And yet LD still won in 2011, though with great difficulty.
Going to sleep, wait.... Lin Dan? Now I am awake.
Ben Beckman video...doubley awake
Haha, no doubt!@@BenBeckmanBadminton
Conclusion
Lin Dan's 2008 Olympic Win was greatest WIN only
but The greatest Lin Dan gameplay was later on follows from 2010 - 2012 Olympic WIN so on.
Lin Dan himself said that he gradually shifted from Attacking player to
Defense Counter Attacking Play style , that lead him to beat the most Improved LEE CHONG WEI many times because He said that it's not realizable to remain an attacking player and play so many tournaments throughout the year ,
And that's why lin dan never had so many injuries as compared to others like LCW,
Which gave him an Upper Hand.
In my opinion, Lin Dan was at his absolute peak in the 2011 World Champ finals.
Not only is he smarter and more tactical, he's also able to use the speed and power at a flick of a switch... He was also playing against Lee Chong Wei, who I also believed, peaked at that tournament also.
I cite that MS WC 2011 finals as the greatest MS finals of all time, with the two greatest players at their peak clashing.
This will sound crazy... But the first time I watched the 2012 finals, I was left a little bit disappointed by what I saw, because I had seen the 2011 WC finals.
Couldn’t agree more. The 2011 WBC final was magical and the match kicked off immediately with a wonderful rally. The 2012 on the other hand, started sluggish with many errors from both sides. If it wasn’t an olympic final, I think 2012 wouldn’t even rank among the top 5 matches between LD and LCW.
Great Outlook, Ben ❤!
I think one performance you could have cited was his Thomas Cup 2010 Performance.
Lee Chong Wei hadn't lost a single match that year till that point and many people had written obituaries for Lin Dan, especially on the biggest badminton forums on the internet.
In Thomas Cup, Lee Chong Wei had the same home crowd advantage as Lin Dan had in Beijing and I remember people on Badminton Central were expecting LCW to give Lin Dan a 2008 style thrashing.
But Lin Dan absolutely toyed with Lee Chong Wei that day further proving that when it mattered, no body could touch Lin Dan.
Interesting re 2010 TC. I don't recall LD ever being written off, maybe because he was picking and choosing his events more at the time. The TC came before his shock worlds loss too.
LCW in Malaysia was also pretty always a beast too.
But you're right LD was sublime in that event, hence why I used a few clips from there. But then again LD was amazing at the Asian Games that year as well.
In fact, I recall a few tournaments where he was insane from that period with most being those team events
To put it simply, If 2008 Lin Dan hypothetically can play against 2011-2013 Lin Dan, the 2011-2013 Lin Dan would win because of a more complete player he has become. 2008 Lin Dan was a monster, full of attacking and fast pace game, stamina and speed at highest level and master trickshots, BUT 2011-2013 Lin Dan was godly. Simply the most perfect all rounder player badminton world ever see. Relax, calm and composed playing style, analyzing opponents game to execute his strategy shots and winning the game not having to spend too much energy and can be ready physically better for the final. Absolute star player.
Correct
Pure analysis of lin dan badminton career
Mmh I'm not sure it's that simple.
Was it really the best version of himself from 2011 onwards when he lost matches to Sho Sasaki in Indonesia or Wong Wing Ki in Denmark?
Of course you could say that he only started to change his style and so sometimes played too passivelyn and needed to adjust.
But even though he grew into this style he definitely didn't dominate Lee Chong Wei as much as he used to (also because LCW improved a lot) as seen in the WC 2011 and OG 2012 and even the All England in 2012, where an injured LCW almost won the opening game.
So while he definitely became a more rounded player and developed himself tactically and technically that didn't automatically mean his performances overall improved. Of course there were still amazing performances like the Hong Kong Open 2011 against LCW or the Super Series Finals. :)
If you want a sublime Lin Dan based on a full year calendar, then his 2009 version is the best pick. He played almost 90% the level of Olympic 2008, but he did so throughout the whole year. All England 2009, Sudirman 2009, World Championship, China Open (his best tour that year imo) are some examples of a physically prime and high-IQ Lin Dan.
In terms of a single tournament post-2012, ASIAD 2014 comes to mind. He beat LCW in 3 sets in the semi and beat Chen Long in 3 sets in the final, with both LCW and Chen Long playing in the world final just a couple weeks earlier. Lin Dan played arguably his best badminton I've ever seen apart from Beijing 2008. He completely destroyed the two best defense in the game with crazy attacking and controlling style.
Yeah 2009 LD was a pretty awesome player. A number of fantastic performances and win throughout.
I'd agree that at the 2014 Asian Games LD was on a mission and played very well too
2008 olympic, best performance of any badminton player ever
2008 Lin Dan was great. No doubt about that. But to me, 2011-2012 lin dan was the greatest. During these years that I mentioned, Lin dan was able to integrate his aggressive and attacking style perfectly with his amazing level of patience. People often say that he was being "passive" and he was just "walking" around the court. What they didn't think about is that how impressive it was to be able to appear like you were walking on the court despite the fact that in men's singles, you have a wider court to cover. 2011-2012 lin dan was so mentally strong that even with the pressure and the intensity of each rally, he was able to execute the right shots and their right trajectory to be able to limit his opponent's options and somehow have an idea of what the next shot might be. And when he reads it, he explodes towards the shuttle and thunder it down. Even Morten Frost said something about this during the 2011 sudirman cup in Lin Dan vs. Peter Gade. Frost said that what made opponents afraid of Lin Dan was that he has this ability to, according to Frost's words, "floor it[shuttle]". I certainly believe that if 2011 Lin Dan vs. 2008 Lin Dan happened, 2011 Lin Dan will win by a small margin. 2011 Lin Dan will counter the 2008 Lin Dan and attack at the right moment giving the young 2008 Lin Dan a lot to think about and 2011 Lin Dan will capitalize on it and use it to his advantage.
It was not his best but I think it was the closest he ever was to his 100%. At that final (and those olympics for that matter), he was absolutely determined to win and played no chances. Nothing could’ve shaken his will to win those olympics which made him unstoppable. In the years that followed, although he was better player technique-wise, I feel like his will to win and determination (not his mental strength however) fell off a bit and he only zoned in when it mattered. We could see it through his way of playing when sometimes it looked lazy, too defensive and even going for trickshots and toying around (all of which he also did before but much less frequently and not in big tournaments). This also explains why he made almost no mistakes in those olympics. Him only zoning in when it mattered also could explain why in so many h2h matches against LCW, it went to 3 games yet Lin Dan consistently won the match.
I remember a number of top players saying that LCW would go out of his way to murder you and LD would happily let you play. I think that sums up what you're saying nicely. But when it mattered, LD delivered and often devastatingly
Great work ben... Just loved how you concluded the topic so well.... Always excited for your video....👏👏
Thank you! So glad u liked the video
Great video, Ben. His performance at the 2010 Thomas Cup was almost equally as terrifying as he was at the ‘08 Olympics. Steamrolled LCW and Taufik in succession.
But for an example of his evolved, measured play, I can think of his match against Taufik at the 2012 All England. He was just playing within himself and you can even hear the commentator (my memory says it was Tony Clark) say the scores in the first game were close but Lin Dan’s got a few gears he could go to.
And then he stepped it up in the second game.
Yes 2010 TC was pretty phenomenal. 2010 Asian Games and 2011 Sudirman Cup also jump out at me.
Yes I remember that all England match well. Stepped it up when he knew he had to. Tbf, taufik was way past his best but still
Lin Dan was a beast before 2008 as well
Oh for sure
I very liked the video and it helps more to understands who Lin Dan was when he was in his prime and evolving player years, more Lin Dan videos soon I hope and documentaries plss of years
More Lin Dan, more documentaries and more cool stories coming. All sprinkled with own, at times questionable, opinion
Lee Chong Wei in 2008 Olymipc Final was far away from his normal level at that time. That was his first major event final and under huge pressure from home fans, he was so nervous on the court and made too many unforced error which also made contribution to the big gap of the score.
So I think the scoreline cannot tell too much about how great Lin dan was at that time. If the opponent changed to 2011's LCW with much faster, confident, more-experienced and solid defence. It would definitly difficult for LD to use his speed and smash. And the match may became a 3-games match or more different result.
In my opinion the 2011 WC Final showed more about these 2 player's real ability. Both were confident, healthy and not undered too much pressure. (When talk about 2012 OG: LCW suffered serious ankle injured before and Lin Dan played not stable and made more errors than normal ) Both player did their best in the final and made the match be the greatest MS match of all time.
So it is may safe to say 2011's Lin dan (More strictly speaking : 2011 year end's Lin dan) is his best form in his career.
Nice analysis. Lin Dan himself admitted that he was not at his physical best in the 2011 WC final.
I agree, good analysis. Some similar to points to the ones I made 😊🙌🏻
Lin was absolutely unstoppable in 2008.
No-one was close to him at those Olympics
He is god
He is the master
He is the king 👑
The Lin Dan
Hi Ben, great vid. Would you consider investing in your background a bit more? A neater, single-colour wall - with some neat badminton posters, and perhaps a shelf/unit with some badminton paraphernalia would really elevate your already good offering
I'd love to but right now it is tricky due to the size of my place. Something for the future for sure
As always Ben delivers. Great video on a great topic🔥
Thank you. So glad you liked it 😊
ben you make amazing videos which sound really professional... keep it up
Thank you so much! I'll keep doing my best 👌🏻
Ohhh man, you've uploaded it earlier than I thought.. Anyways, thats a great video, thanks a lot sir; learned a lot from it....
You are more than welcome my friend! Another video coming soon
@@BenBeckmanBadminton This time, I'll try to be on time....
There is also actual evidence to support the case why 2008 LD was not best LD. In fact, a legitimate case can be made that 2011 LD is the best LD. In 2008, he won OG and 2 super series title. In 2011, he won WC, 4 super series titles, Asia badminton championship. In that year, he reach 10 finals won 8, 93% win percentage (highest of his career). Or how about 2006 ? LD was on 34 match win streak, been 11 finals won 9.
2008 > 2006. He blew a final to Taufik in the latter year
@@nathanhosea489 2008 - LD blew 3 finals all England 🏴 open and Hong Kong open to Chen Jin and Korean open to Lee Hyun il
I am a Chinese, and I think a large part of the Chinese community believes that 2011 was Lin Dan's peak year. This year, Lin Dan had a very terrifying winning rate, perfect technology, top Badminton IQ and almost no decline in physical fitness. , he almost won all major championships. More importantly, I think this year was also the peak year of Lin Dan’s biggest rival, Lee Chong Wei. Lee Chong Wei also snatched the All England Open championship from Lin Dan in this year.
Yes! I did a whole video on the build up to their showdown at the 2011 Worlds. Both players were in fine form!
Both players are legendary.
Until today, there are still a lot of discussions about them.
Salute 🫡
Completely agree! In the 2008 Olympics, LD performed at 100% of his level at that time. But in later years he developed himself, he might have been slower (probably even intentional to avoid injuries) but his overall level was definitely higher! (Although you didn't mention the other 4 of your top 5 performances, I'm sure WC 2011 Finals is definitely there as he also delivered a phenomenal performance!)
😊🙌🏻
@@BenBeckmanBadminton I know that eventually you won't be able to, as your popularity is rising quickly. But just wanted to show my appreciation for your effort to reply to all the comments.
@jasonyuchenliu4136 I will always do my best mate. I appreciate everyone who watches, especially those who take the time to write a comment
Great video to a super interesting debate. My take on it is similar - I do think LD became a more complete player by the end of 2012-13, however I do still think that his 2008 style offsets this to a greater degree and that the 2008 player while incomplete was simply still better.
Similar examples would be Tendulkar 2010 vs Tendulkar 1999
Or Hamilton early years vs current Hamilton.
Loss of physical ability compensated by experience.
But in my mind if I put 2008 LD up against 2012 LD in a match I think 2008 prevails more often than not.
Great video Ben. Would be interested on your take on whether the prime Viktor Axelson of the last couple of years is a better player than prime Kento Momota who he always struggled to beat before his accident. Equally, the question of whether Viktor would have gone on to dominate men's singles in the way he has if Kento had stayed the same is also one I find quite intriguing.
Thank you, glad you liked it. That is an interesting question, dunno the answer but what I do know is that it could have become a rivalry that badminton fans would have loved. Momota had the clear edge before the accident but Viktor came on leaps and bounds after. They would have certainly had a few epic battles that's for sure
2008 version was more aggressive. His smashes can destroy every oppoment and bring the rhymes of the match very fast, which is excited to watch for audience. The 2012 version was mild, but still strong because his foot work and defense was on another level. He slowed the game down but played in a more steady state.
Lin Dan has the best stamina and strength in history. Two years ago, Lin Dan was invited to join a Chinese boxing TV show with MMA fighter Zhang Weili and others. After a few weeks of training, Lin Dan could beat relatively high level amateur boxers because he could relentlessly throw punches non-stop for 9 minutes, something even some of the best professionals can't do. As an amateur boxer, I was scared when watching that TV show since that was many years after his retirement. It's difficult to imagine his peak stamina in 2008. Eventually, he had to leave the TV show because they just couldn't match him up with other celebrities to fight.
Lindan turned from Pretty Boy Mayweather to Money Mayweather from 2008 to 2012. Also, the world rankings really don't matter because Lin Dan was asked by the national team to not attend many tournaments or purposely lose them to give more ranking points for other Chinese players. If he was allowed and he wanted, he could easily been the world number 1 the whole time.
The guy was, and still is clearly, a straight up beast
2011 Lin Dan was the best badminton player to have ever walked the earth
No one beats 2008 olympic lin dan, speed power mentality everything is unreal
Please keep making videos
Oh I'm not stopping
it is indeed. attack is the best defense but it needs enormous amount of physicality hence not sustainable in the long run as the man himself had to switch into defense-counter play gradually from 2008-2012-2016 olympic it's like a slider going from allout attack/fire at will mode - balance mode - rally/counter mode. I believe this is the golden standard for other players to follow, to utilize young age peak physical gradually change as they age into late 20s and 30s (gaining experience but losing speed/power/stamina)
I think so too 😊🙌🏻
This is kind of a by product discussion of what you very briefly mentioned in the video but ive always believed that the top mens singles players tend to be their best when they learn to be aggressive. now i am a younger viewer than some (started watching around 2012) but players like Momota and LCW even someone like Axelsen or Shi Yu Qi tend to reach their peaks after realizing they cannot wait for their opponents to make mistakes. However Lin dan seems to have been the opposite. He could force you into a bad spot whenever he wanted but learning how to not over step where he is really allowed him to completely control the pace of games
It does usually work out that way although there is one exception...Chen Long. In his junior days he was quite aggressive and attacking, probably grew up watching Lin Dan, etc, but as he grew older he became the beast we know and in turn influenced how Chinese MS players approached the game
What about taufik downfall after 2005 plzz make a video on this topic it will be intresting
I think I'd focus more on his high points because boy was he a ridiculous player
@@BenBeckmanBadminton definatly
Some people even lin dan said that he was gifted talented
And lin dan was hardworking
'08 Lin Dan would destroy any player from any era. The only one capable of stopping 08 LD is another version of himself.
no matter what argument you raised.
You cant deny facts.
By Far this is His best performance and Match Period Hands down.
reason:
1) Lindan was so Strong and Fast that Opponents have no time to react due to the sheer power of His Smashes and quick follow up smash/return
makes it impossibke to defend.
Plus Lindans solid defense, how can his opponent attack if its already difficult to defend?
Numbers dont lie
therefore this is Lindans Greatest Form
Depends on how you define best I guess. I believe 2008 Olympic Lin Dan is peak Lin Dan (big emphasis on Olympic). Lin Dan had better statistical years but 2008 Olympic Lin Dan was just so hungry (after the 2004 embarassment), relentless and athletic. He was imposing his will on his opponents. He was breaking their morale. And his stamina was incredible. This version already had great anticipation so I don't think older, counter attacking Lin Dan's playstyle will work. His counter attacks would be anticipated. He can look at your position and posture and know in a blink what your logical replies/shots are and take the shuttle early to attack again, each shot forcing a higher chance of mistakes. Older Lin Dan won't have a lot of opportunities to go on the offensive. Lol. Older Lin Dan is more efficient and as a result can win more matches and titles. He didn't need 100% effort to beat most players. 2008 Olympic Lin Dan was a warrior willing to die for victory. Older Lin Dan is a warrior who will win many victories. If those two meet, I'm taking 2008 Olympic Lin Dan.
2010-2012 Lindan is more mature and mentally stronger. He changed his play style after 2008 olympics. I agree with you. He became a more complete player.
😊🙌🏻
11' and 12' Lin Dan can beat 08' Lin easily if you really understand badminton.
I have the same point of view with you
Easily might be a strong word but like I said in the video, I feel later LD was a better player
An equivalent comparison would be Michael Jordan. I know it’s a different sport. Just bear with me. Majority of people would say the 1987-1988 season Jordan was the best Jordan because he averaged a whopping 35 points per game and lead the league in steals. He attacked the rim at will, whenever he wanted, athletic beast. Won MVP, Defensive player of the year and all star game MVP. However, some would say the best Jordan was the 1990-1991 season because his game became more well rounded, he developed a better jumpshot and passing ability (11 assist per game in the NBA finals). He won MVP, finals MVP and most importantly an NBA championship. Like MJ, LD developed to be a more complete player and had a better understanding of the game as to let the game come to you rather instead of just forcing the issue.
Loving the analogy! Makes sense
@@BenBeckmanBadmintonyes, actually your point with regards to a player having the best performance in that year/season doesn’t mean that that player is that particular year/season is the best version is not complicated to understand or something new. In fact, it’s very common in many different sports.
@@BenBeckmanBadminton As your English, I give you examples on two great English players which you should be familiar with, Steven Gerrard and Frank lampard. Many say their best version was 2005-2006 when they won player of the year awards and led their team to win major competitions. Liverpool winning uefa champions league in 2005 and fa cup in 2006. Chelsea won premier league in 2005 and 2006 and league cup in 2006. However, there is a legitimate case that their best versions were actually later on in their career where both players became more complete players. Lampard developed into an all around box to box midfielder instead of just being known for his scoring prowess. Gerrard showed his scoring prowess and that he can play multiple roles, second striker, attacking midfielder, holding midfielder, deep lying playmaker, right winger. Play in different formation.
@@AgentJ2007 I of course know who Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard are but what they achieved in their careers I have no idea. I am not a footy fan haha
@@BenBeckmanBadminton haha ! Well, your point is very common on legendary players across different sports who had multiple great season/year in their career, so it becomes very hard to say which exact year/season was the best version of them.
2008 oly final Lin Dan played to 100% of his abilities. Even if he was overall a better player in later years, I don't think he had any games where he played that close to his theoretical best. We all see matches where a player is just fully "dialed in" that day and crushes someone they'd otherwise have some difficulty against. 2008 oly Lin Dan is the definition of that.
Kind of the point I was making. There were definitely some other later LD performances where he was playing at an insane level but those 2008 Olympics, with everything surrounding it, just stands out so vividly
So from what I understand, 2010-2013 LD is better than 2006-2009 LD. But The LD at the 2008 Olympics final specifically played the highest badminton level due to the listed circumstances. So like, the LD in 2008 Olympics final could beat any of 2010-2013 versions of LD, but if we take the average performance of 2006-2009 LD vs average performance of 2010-2013 LD then 2010-2013 LD would win.
Not necessarily. I wouldn't say LD in 08 final would beat the best of LD from later years. Obviously can't say for sure. But I do believe LD got better over the following Olympic cycle (Beijing to London)
Bollocks.Actually LD had the same ability post 2008. It's just that other players started to improve against him
Ok
I wonder if this is one of the reasons why Victor started to learn Mandarin?
Pretty sure he wanted to appeal to a huge market, learn from best players, and probably he was just interested
I think 2011 Lin Dan wins against 2008 Lin Dan every time, but 2008 Lin Dan is by far the more entertaining player
Pretty cool way of looking at it
i like your shirt
Gudetama 🙌🏻
In 2008 LD took some ancient Chinese aphrodisiac
🤣
2008 lin dan will beat others top player in any era
Can viktor equalise lindan in Olympics by defending his title 🤔
He has a very good chance to do that
Definitely a must, and with 3 more world championships as well, otherwise still not a match. He still has his chance. But I truly wonder if that could happen, since Viktor is way taller and aging could be a big problem. Still, hope Viktor can create his legendary.
@@dianliu2109 he's not aging anytime soon with his lean top fitness.
Even if Victor had 3
Lindan will Be the Greatest.
Viktors Opponents are whimps!
@@silver_c1oud Sadly, but indeed many today's MS players are so unstable, getting tired easily also.
I think the 2011-2013 version of Lin Dan is the best, not 2006-2008
Next Susi Susanti
Video on Susi will happen
@@BenBeckmanBadminton thxs👏👏🙏
Lindan used armotex 700 in final 2008, bcz inspired by taufik hidayat.
Really?
nah bro there was like 4 rackets to choose from, and almost all players used the armourtech 700.
@@BenBeckmanBadmintondont be fooled by indonesian delusional claims 😂
They really love claiming stuff 😂
I still think kentos best is better than lindans best
Huge call!!
I like your idea although it's really hard to call. To me the best Lin Dan was the 2011-2013 Lin Dan, not 2008, and Momota is a similar version of that 2011-2013 Lin Dan.