.357 Magnum VS .44 Magnum 180 gr Battle - Federal Handgun Power-Shok
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- Testing the Federal Power-Shok in .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum in a 10% Clear Ballistics test. Both are 180 gr SJHP bullets. The .357 Magnum is rated at 1,080 FPS and the .44 Magnum is rated at 1,460 FPS. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.co...
A friend uses a Ruger Blackhawk 357 mag. with a 7.5" barrel for deer and hogs. His ammo is factory 158 grain JHP. It has performed very well for him. He has a .44 mag. S&W but he shoots the 357 more accurately, probably due to the lesser recoil and blast. Thanks for another great video !
357 is a killing machine.love from Pennsylvania
You know those bullets are hitting the steel hard when the shrapnel digs a trench in front of it!
It’s apparent in the slo mo that the .44 mag hits a lot harder. It’s clear why Detective Callahan preferred it.
He didn't use full power. 44 in "Magnum Force" though, he says in a mis-edited line.
He was meant to say ".44 Specials" or "light magnums". He said multiple lines because that's what's done when filming a movie. But the line that ended up being kept was, "I use a Light Special load". Doh!
@@josephpepper3087 don't think you can't hunt with 44 spl. I can say they will definitely take deer very well. . 😊
Dirty Harry is a fictional character. He didn't prefer anything that the writers didn't write him to prefer.
@@jasonshults368 We know, man, we're just having fun.
@@jasonshults368 No he's for realz man.
Comments are as fun as your vids, Sam. Kimber’s k6 3” is Goldilocks for this old Marine. Semper Fi🇺🇸
Glad to hear you like it. I have been thinking about getting one. It strikes me as an ultimate carry revolver. Little velocity loss, longer sight radius than a snubby, and similar in weight to my 2 25" SP-101, and all 6 shots. Plus a great trigger
@@troy9477My trigger needed a little work. Took it apart to clean + lube and found uneven wear in a few places. Threw in some polishing compound and worked the action a bunch. Replaced the springs and firing pin with tk custom, but went back to the stock cylinder stop spring and firing pin when it broke and the spring went flying on the second disassembly haha.
I sometimes forget just how devastating 44 magnum is... But you hit the nail on the head, it is almost NEVER pleasurable to shoot.
These bots are out of control! Awesome video Sam, appreciate the comparison.
Either would ruin someone's day/night if they took a center hit.
It is funny how so many people complain about what and how you run your channel, but none seem to have any of their own.
👍👍
I've noticed that. I get a lot of "redo this test, but do it right by.......etc etc". It's like, okay if you're such an expert and know how it's done right, and you got a recording device, as everyone does now....show us how it's done lol
That first 44 round shot into the gel had places to be
It was in a hurry hoping to find organs.
My favorite weight in .357, the 180 gr. I've fired alot of this Federal 357G SJHP.
It's always expanded in my informal tests from 2 and 3 in barrels. Mud, sand, water. You are correct about its efficiency. In 2 in barrels I got about 925-950 fps. In a 3 in about 975 fps. It doesn't lose much and has the velocity to expand from a snub.
The 180 gr has far less blast than a 158 gr, which has less than a 125 gr. More smoke than flame, too, because more powder is burning in the barrel.
I'd carry this load if it wasn't so expensive, but also my hand loads are better. Very consistent velocities and less recoil because I use a soft, 180 gr wide-mouth LHP bullet loaded to 900 fps from a 3" barrel.
I shoot 180-187 gr .357 loads from practice loaded just a touch lighter. My favorite powder for these heavier bullets in .357 is CFE-P. I use Federal primers.
As for the .44 mag 180 gr bullet, I wonder if it turned into a flat nickel then turned sideways and slipped through?
That first 44 really ate its Wheaties
Buffalo Bore and Underwood loads .357 180s, JHP and cast, rated at 1,500 & 1,400 respectively.
This has become one of my favorite channels. Excellent testing of numerous calibers and loads I personally use. But no one is testing .30 Luger. 🤨 As a .30 Luger weirdo who actually routinely carries one as a street gun, along with my Webley Mk IV and Colt Official Police British Military Contract in .38-200, how about that? There's really only a few loads available, which is PPU ball, Fiocchi ball and soft point, and Reed's Ammunition and Research 90 grain XTP hollowpoint which is rated at 1,300 fps. It seems satisfyingly spicy in my 1921 commercial Luger and works perfectly. I also have a small quantity of what looks like 1930s Remington Kleenbore softpoint and hollowpoint ammunition you could try, with two different types of jacketing material used. For all of us .30 Luger freaks. 😛 Seriously though. I have a nearly full box of what is probably 1890s Remington black powder era .38 S&W cartridges as well. I've always wanted to see what the guns our ancestors were using did. I've fired a quantity of original balloon head case black powder .38 S&W in my Smith Safety Hammerless revolver, and they're definitely somewhat hotter than present day smokeless loads. Which could also be tested.😏 Those old cartridges usually still work. Only the priming ever goes bad. I pull those apart to salvage the balloon head case to recreate the original black powder loading exactly. Modern solid head cases have less internal volume. I may yet manufacture a tool to machine the inside of solid head cases to original configuration so I can stuff the proper charge of black powder in there...
Your point about sectional density is spot on. When trying to create an "apples to apples" comparison between two different cartridges, it is a mistake to demand the bullet weight be the same, especially when the caliber is different. Each loading for each cartridge strikes an optimum balance for each task at different points for each factor.
Great comparison Sam !
I think he dented the planet with those .44 Mags!
Interesting you mentioned 6.5 mm Carcano and JFK assasination. The FMJ bullet that supposedly hit his head fragmented immensely at speed 1900 ft/s. Do you believe that?
It’s always interesting for me to see how much recoil you get w/various guns. I haven’t shot a .44 Mag in quite awhile but still recall how powerful it was. The most recoil I experienced was w/my EDC 340PD loaded w/125 grain magnum rounds. That taught me to keep 110 grain +P in it.
This is a great test. I always love different diameter same grain bullet tests. The sectional density tests are always interesting. It's like 270 vs 30.06, 7mm mag vs 300 mag, or like this. Now, if you could have gotten cartridges with similar speeds from these two, that would have been a bit tastier, but as such, this is an eye opener.
IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY THE OLD TIMERS -- JIM TAYLOR PACO KELLY JOHN TAFFIN JOHN LONGBAUGH & SEVERAL OTHERS DID EXTENSIVE TESTING ON THE SPEED FACTOR -- PRETTY SURE THEY WERE USING ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY HARD CAST BULLETS THEY MOSTLY POURED THEMSELVES -- THEY FOUND THE REAL SWEET SPOT WAS JUST ABOVE 1000 FPS UP TO ABOUT 1300FPS WHEN LOOKING FOR PENETRATION -- BEYOND THAT YOU REALLY DIDNT GAIN MUCH AT ALL IF ANY - I'VE FOUND A 357 OUT OF MY 16" LEVER ACTION -- ~165 GR HARD CAST AT JUST OVER 1200 FPS TO SHOOT CLEAN THRU THE SHOULDERS OF A 300 LB HOG -- BAD MEDICINE - SAW MY NEIGHBOR WITH HIS 45-70 405 GR HARD CAST AT UNDER 1400 FPS SHOOT THRU BOTH SHOULDERS OF A ~1200 LB BRAHMA BULL GONE CRAZY -- DROPPED IN ITS TRACKS -- ONCE HE PUMPED IT UP ABOVE THAT ABOUT ALL YOU WERE GETTING IS A LOT MORE RECOIL
I was thinking the same thing. I'd like to see them at similar velocities. Even testing out h.p. and flat heads for both. Also (if at all possible) testing each round out of a rifle would be cool to see.
I imagine those 180gr 357 bullets can really pick up their step out of a longer barrel...with the right powder of course.
And I know its not always about expansion but getting a 357 180gr bullet to expand would offer interesting results...im speculating of course. Maybe the results would be boring.
357 magnum is very violent but the 44 magnum is pretty gruesome.
@@SpookThaGeneral I'M 5'7" & 160 -- FIRST TIME I SHOT A 44MAG BIG SMITH REVOLVER I UNDERSTOOD -- MAYBE CAMPING /HIKING IN BEAR COUNTRY FOR USE AS A TENT GUN OR SOEMTHING LIKE THAT - OTHERWISE - USELESS TO ME -- HOWEVER I DO OWN A 44 LEVER GUN - AND A 357 LEVER GUN -- WIFE SHOOTS A 357 I LOAD TO THE BOTTOM OF WHAT THE MANUAL SAYS IS SAFE & IT ISNT TOO BAD FOR HER -- QUITE A BIT MORE OOOMPH THAN ANY 38 SPCL +P LOAD BUT DOESNT TRY TO PLANT THE REVOLVER IN HER FOREHEAD
Sam for Xmas maybe we should both save for 16" Rossi 357 LeverGats to do testing with. I do think that is something that could be really interesting on your channel
I'll loan ya my uberti 1873 clone in 38/357.
The 180 hard cast from underwood is a hard hitter out of that ~18" barrel...
It would be fun. I actually bought an 18" .22 LR rifle today to do some more tests with, so slowly I think I am going into rifles.
@GunSam a 125 xtp solves any house problems almost rifle Like yet small light maneuverable. A 158 xtp or even most 158 sjhp can solve any animal or otherwise issue within 120 yards if good shooter. Most ammo seems to peak 18" so a 16" is just about same as 20" w most rounds I've looked into. Plus will be more Michigan friendly as things sour. Get ur daughter a safe w the hand print things so she will feel better taking one.
@@DanTheWolfman lol, my sister has one of those Hornady boxes like that, pops open and lifts the gun like Robocop's leg.
Nah, one of you should get a 20" to see what the difference is, if any.
I can't say I know a ton of .44 Mag shooters, but the ones I have known are all kind of so-so shots with the .44 Mag. They don't seem to get enough practice time because of the punishment factor. I am an old guy now and arthritus has forced me to "down-gun" to 9mm and .327 Mag. I have really enjoyed your older videos on .32 S&W long etc. Thanks for what you do.
i was thinking about picking up a 44 mag but i think that might be a little too much for me. thanks for the video!
44mag has a good recoil but it is manageable.
Preferably from a bigger, heavier gun than what Sam has here.
Depends on the size of the gun. A longer barrel or heavier gun recoils less.
GS. Another good and interesting comparison. Thanks for your work and for sharing. Take care.
Thanks again for your great work
While the 44 mag. 180 grain has a significant velocity advantage, the 357 mag. 180 grain has a sectional density advantage .202 vs .139 for the 44 mag.
Same bullet weights test @b.schmidt3701
up here there's a lot 180gr 357 and 300gr 44 mag hard cast 🐻 🧸
Unconventional weight? It's normal at my house. :)
Having trouble being honest, @b.schmidt3701 .? 180 gr 44 mag been around quite a while, and generally performs very well.
Please be careful throwing your weight around, @@josephpepper3087 😸
I reload, and learned a lot from you. Thanks
Thanks
This is the cartridge I’ve got loaded in my S&W 686 for everyday carry.
Hi gun Sam. Hi from Pennsylvania. I love your channel. Please make alot more videos on revolver s shooting. I got hurt and will be laid up atleast 6 weeks off work. Going for surgery on 19th. . Ive never missed work in my life. As soon as cleared to drive Beth and i are headed to our north Maine cabin. Ill heal up at the cabin better. God bless awsome video.😊
Gun Sam both 357 and 44 are awsome rounds. Especially out of a heavy ruger blackhawk or super Blackhawk. . And very accurate. 😊
Good test as always. Of course a "fair" test would be bullets with similar SD in each bore diameter, which wiuld probably mean a 140-ish grain 357. Or, just comparing light for caliber rounds, a 125 grain. I bet the Hornady CD would do well. I have always wondered if the sweet spot for 44 Mag might be a 210 or 215 gr load, a bit below max, say 1200-1250 fps. It would still have an edge over 10 mm, blast and recoil would be a little less, and terminal performance would still be there. The Silvertip and i think the Gold Dot are both 210's, and the ST is reputedly a bit below max. I have never bought any to chroni. When i start reloading, i may experiment. But most of my effort will be into 357 and 41 mag. Plus the standards, 38 Spl and 45 ACP, and of course 45 Colt😁
As an aside, i think the Carcano bore diameter is .268. Makes it hard to handload for, but i think there are 1 or 2 sources for bullets now, so all is not lost. The various 6.5's were good military cartridges in their day, particularly the 6.5x55 mm Swedish, which is still in wide use for hunting over there
I understand what you're describing. That said, I'm not sure Oswald shot Kennedy.
Another great demo/comparison 👍
Ruger makes a .357 Bolt Action. I figure a 180 grain would perform very well from a .357 rifle. Not going to be like a high power rifle round exactly, but will dump tons of energy and expand massively.
great video Sam
Better velocity than expected with the .357, but anything above 158 grains is definitely cast bullet territory.
ALWAYS PROPER GOD BLESS YOU AND AMERICA🎉
Hi sam, those 180 grains bullets are ringing steel so loud there are people coming to see the new church
Do you use some kind of algorithm to determine the best time to upload your videos? You and the channel Tools&Targets upload your videos at the exact same times and days. He does gel testing videos too.
There's this thing, where it shows days and hours at which more of my subscribers are online. Like Tuesdays and Fridays more are on starting at 5 pm eastern. I don't have a set time to release my videos, but I try to stay around those times.
I would have liked to see you reshoot the second test with the .357 as I suspect the same inconsistency apparent with the .44 may have expressed itself in the .357. It was interesting just the same. Thanks for sharing!
I honestly think that somehow, a SJSP got mixed in with the SJHP box with one round. But i'll never know.
Not Impossible. I've had factory bullets loaded backwards in the case before. Major brand JHP too.
357 Mag - 127 Grain HoneyBadger - Black Hills Ammunition
great video
Sectional Density . 357" x 180 grains = 0.202 and .429 x 180 grains = 0.140
Just beautiful 🤌🏿
Man, that 44 Magnum actually has less energy than the Buffalo Bore 180 grain 357 XTP or hardcast.
Those out of my Rossi R92 .44 White Tail capable
Gun Sam, a near dark my ruger super Blackhawk hunter firing my 240 grn hand loads will blind you.from the blast.but what i fired at is dead.. Pennsylvania buddy Jeff. 😊
Hi, Sam! Would be very interesting to test 357 mag. Black hills ammunition 125 gr. with your 2" Taurus. 🙏🙏🙏
Don’t think I will be getting that Ruger LCR in 44 mag now : )
🤣😆🤣😆
I have the aluminum frame 44 magnum night guard from s&w. It's like shooting my 4" 500 mag
@@logangodofcandy Ouch!
Sam, you should if at all possible and a 41 mag. Into the mix!!
Not practical at all. All the revolvers in it are like $1,000. And for what, like 4 hollow point loads I can test? No thanks.
That .44 magnum is definitely over kill😂. Are you hunting dinosaurs with that sucker?
The 357 might be good in a Rifle
180’s in 357 are hunting rounds for deep penetration.
6.5mm like the Carcano is .264" or .26 caliber.
That second 357 shot looks like it has the dreaded peyronie's disease 🤦♂😟.
It curves upward!
Seems to beca trend when bullets "run out of steam". Or when the don't have much "steam" to begin with. (Slow bullets without much weight)
Grizzly brand 180 grain .40 cal is box rated at 1125 fps. That .357 mag is super weak sauce 😮
Good review as always. I wouldn't call it a even comparison as the loading it light for caliber on one hand and heavy for caliber on the other so hardly going to show even comparison. It's like comparing a 6 cyl vs 8 cyl with 2 gallons of gas and calling it even because they both had the same amount of fuel. To me the results didn't look that impressive for either and neither is optimized for their caliber.
Maybe I heard you wrong, but I don't think the 629 is an L frame. Isn't it an N frame?
Oh, my bad, at the end of video I more clearly heard model 69. So an L .44 mag.
But thumbs forward on revolver shooting is interesting for the thumb burn, LOL. Good shooting!
I have a 6" Lframe ,357, I put together some hot (but by the book) 180gr cartridges, The recoil was so brutal I had to swap the narrow stock hogue grips for some pachmyer grips that were more broad in the back. The 1080fps seems slow to me.
Hogue were too thin for you?
Hey Hey!
A Buffalo Bore 180 grain bullet is rated at near 1400 FPS..
If you're talking about .357 Magnum 180 gr XTP, that's rated at 1,500 FPS. My 4" revolver averaged 1,326 FPS with that ammo.
I would go with a 44magnum because I have one with a 4inch it's a 629-6
Pretty decent results. Thank you.
It looks like the first shot of 44 tumbled and then continued backwards.
Could be. Or went sideways and slipped through on the sly.
I've debated getting a 44, and I don't deny the power, but apart from large dangerous animals can you think of a strong argument why it would be *needed* over a 357 in regular day to day uses? The main pro I can see is barrier penetration. We have hogs and mountain lions here (as well as lots of drugged out homeless) and I feel fine carrying Underwood 357 but I really want to learn if I'm missing something about the 44 that is compelling enough to get me to buy one
Because you can load it with 44 specials
If you don't hand load, it's not a target shooting cartridge
For typical self defense, no there's not a huge reason to use a .44 Magnum over a .357 Magnum. Also .357/.38 ammo is pretty cheap to shoot. However, as the other commenter mentioned, there is .44 Special. What makes .44 Special good is that it's got less recoil than .357 Magnum and way more power than .38 Special, so it's a good defensive cartridge with a lot less sound db than a .357 Magnum. You can't go wrong with either, but the more practical choice is .357 Magnum.
@@GunSam interesting, I don't know much about 44 Special so that is good info
Same weight bullets but more powder in the bigger case. I wonder what the result will be?
My 4.2" 44 mag using Hodgdon load data pushes a 180 gr XTP much faster. I think both rounds tested were under loaded.
Some bullets just do weird stuff sometimes
I have 2 boxes of discontinued 180 gr Nosler Partitions I bought from Wideners years ago. I'm guessing I may only get around 1000 fps from my 4" gp100 when glancing at my Lyman book. I know they open up quick. But would they work on PA whitetail? I do have a nice 77/357 to use them in too.
I took a doe at 63 yards out of 6” GP100
Based on velocity it had about 400 ft.pounds of energy it went behind front shoulder and exited deer off side leaving a 50 caliber hole
Deer dropped right there
Thanks for the test. Have you had problems with your S&W revolvers internal locks? I have thought about getting the ones in my Model 629 and 686 removed.
I have never personally had any issues. I'm not even sure if I ever used the key to lock it before. All my S&W revolvers I have ever owned, have been 100% reliable.
@@GunSam I've never had a problem either, but don't shoot a lot of magnum rounds out of mine. I've heard the internet tales of the guns locking up after heavy recoil. Figured you probably would have experienced a problem because you shoot your revolvers WAY more than I do. Thanks!
@@barney214 I have heard the dreaded recoil lockup, and the version I heard involved a .500 S&W Magnum. And of course, it wasn't second person knowledge. Probably something that happened to one guy once due to a defect, then got the info spread around the internet like it's fact for all S&W revolvers. That's my guess.
I have put hundreds of rounds through my scandium guns and 500 4". Nothing has locked up.
If you open your gun and take the lock out, it has a nub that causes the gun to lock. You can just spend 5 minutes with a file to grind it off and it will never lock again. Lol
A better comparison to the 44 would probably have been a 357 maximum if you could find a gun and ammo. The velocities might have been closer.
To each his own. I don't agree as .357 Maximum is a bit niche and very few people have them. I tend to think of fair, as also being common. Like .41 Magnum would be more "fair" to compare to either of these, but in reality it's way less fair as it doesn't exist to most people. They don't got them, and if they had them there's not a ton of ammo options.
The 357 magnum is a creepy round but the 44 magnum is creepier.
What would the penetration be like with those rounds if you were shooting an animal instead of self defence
Penetration fatal
People are animals. The effect of the bullet on the body of a similar sized game animal would be...similar. The effect on the mind would not be the same.
@@williamgaines9784 not really their hide is thicker along with their muscles and bones
@@donaldballman2825 if you believed you knew the difference, why did you ask?
I have shot many animals of various sizes and bullets perform similarly on them as they do humans. I have not shot any humans, but have seen the effects of bullets on them firsthand.
@@williamgaines9784 I know the difference between man and animal do you
Bump
357 should always have 180gr..it is more knock down power..
it's an okay weight, and might 'knock down' and object well, but I like to think of knockdown power as the ability to make a living thing very quickly give up the fight, and historically when it comes to humans, the 125 gr SJHP has the most 'knockdown power'.
I wonder what a 125 grain hollow from Underwood out of a 6 inch barrel 357 magnum be
I can't speak for a 6" barrel, but my 4" gives about 1,500 FPS. It's been my experience through research though, that a 125 gr might do 100 FPS more from a 6".
It be wrecking someone's day.
Just a random thought: Have you cleaned the sensors of your chronograph lately? If they're dirty, maybe too much light is getting blocked.
I knew someone was going to try to 'fix' my chronograph issue I had 3 weeks ago when I filmed this. It's just the lighting. If I tried to explain it, it wouldn't make sense. To you all, the way I set the cameras looks like good lighting, reality is 50% of the time I film, it's nearly as dark as night time so there's not enough light. My camera picks it up as if it's really bright out, it's not. My overhead lighting shades 3 weeks ago was broken, and I have fixed it since.
Whenever I have problems with my Pro-Chrono it's either lighting or I'm too close.
Algorithm
I still prefer hornady 300 gr xtp 44 mag it's get 30 inch pentration in gel
I will try some day in gel testing. I remember when I used to have a 6" model 629, I would go from 240 gr rounds that felt normal, and then shoot those Hornady 300 gr rounds, and despite that being a heavy revolver, that really hurt my wrist lol
It's hard to satisfy the "fair" vs "realistic" demands when comparing different rounds. Personally I think comparing light for caliber with heavy for caliber like this accomplishes neither. It's still interesting, but it doesn't really amount to a caliber evaluation...whatever that is.
Also, to quote the great Paul Harrell, Federal blue box ammo is crap.
I like to use 'common' as my definition of 'fair'. Like another person said, a .357 Maximum VS a .44 Magnum is more "fair", but I replied that it's really not, because in the real world no one has a .357 Maximum and the debate IS .357 Magnum VS .44 Magnum for 95% of people. The other 5% yell at me that I need to compare to .41 Magnum and 10mm.
@@GunSam Not a naysayer at all, I enjoyed the comparison, but a "fairer" test is probably common bullet weights...158 in 357, 200- 220 in 44 mag... I was also going to suggest that maybe it's time for a new chrono, until I read the above description. Thanks for all you do, love the channel!
@@GunSam I hope you didn't think I was yelling. Not at all, and in fact I didn't mean to criticize your vid in any way. It's totally valid I was just saying I'm not sure what that kind of comparison is labeled as. I guess I think it's less of a comparison and more just a test of a specific ammo in two different calibers.
Did the first 44 tumble and “wadcutter” out the back?
I really have no idea. My best guess is that the hollow point did not expand due to a defect in that one round, or it happened to be a soft point bullet that got mixed in with the hollow point ammo.
.
11:00 6.5x52 carcano, not .264 like the 6.5x55 or 6.5 creedmoor but .267