Instead of losing the damage multiplier on your first strike, it should be on a reset timer you can maintain throughout combat. So you can actually be aggressive.
Block is decent now but needs just a bit more care. Since you cannot fend off and stop enemies' chain attacks i would like to block even red attacks, and executions should not suck the adrenaline stack
The block is all about patience, bc at 7:00 you do the same thing i caught myself doing & stealing hits in between their chain resetting the stacks. For context ( i cant prove just trust) i took on 5 sword/whip guys solo & killed all of them incredibly fast by hitting my initial stagger from first strike w a sprinting cleave (chainsword) backed up, got my 3 stack & just fired another sprinting cleave & just started spamming shoulder bash & i was killing them so fast i wouldnt stop to execute them id just keep stabbing. It can take an eternity to kill one if you play those group fights w/o optimizing the explosion
Thats really interesting, I'll have to try that. I was messing with Block Chainsword some more and Solo cleared lethal with it on Vaguard so Im starting to like it a little more
Perfect blocks should basically reflect the stagger and damage of the blocked attack to the enemies in your front 90, the damage should be split evenly. e.g. You perfect block an attack that would stagger you and deal 100 damage, there are 5 enemies in your front 90. The enemies would all suffer a minor stagger (enough to interrupt an attack animation) along with 20 damage. I want block weapons to handle swarms like the fencing weapons handle 1v1s, with balanced being literally what is says on the label. You shouldnt be able to in any reasonable time-frame, perfect block majoris or higher to death, but it should keep them at bay while handling the minoris so that a ranged or parry fighter can take out the bigguns. Having the explosion tied to the 3rd block instead of the attack after the 3rd block could also work . Thats my opinion anyway.
I haven’t had any trouble with fencing. The only thing that seems different is all of the weapons seem to use the late timing now. Just one quick tap at the very beginning of the enemy windup. Don’t hold it, just tap the parry button.
@elroythewonderboy its bugged brother, it was confirmed be the developers in the official Space Marine Discord. That being said, its not TOO bad just takes a little getting used to
Blocking stacks should be permanent until you attack with a max stack, add an attack buff or damage reduction buff per stack that persists for 8-10 sec after a max stack blow!
I think people make huge mistake trying to play with block weapons like with fencing and then saying that it's worse. Of course it will be this way because you try to make a sword out of a hammer. First off - it performs lot better with burst range weapon (plasma, melta) that you can use simultaniously along with your melee one. So you can shoot blocking some hits in the process and then deal big damage. For example vanguard became S-tier with very high damage after 5.0 just because his melee damage has been doubled. Secondly: you have shown the list of "how block works", but you almost don't utilize the part where it says that it works 2,5 sec after the first hit. With a chainsword for example if you manage to get 3 stacks you do light-light-heavy and make a major red instantly. Especially strong on tactical because of parry scan perk. Thirdly: all melee majors and extremis can do a 3-hit combo. You block it all without attacking in a row, it takes 2 seconds or so, and kill him afterwards in 2 more (at least it works like this with hammer, chainsword and knife). You basically have a bulwark instakill perk on command on any class except heavy. You said right about that you should not be aiming just for getting 3 stacks, but trying to attack every time after a block is a bad idea either. It's in the middle. But no matter of enemy attack, you must block it all first and then hit yourself. Lots of parry games build on this particular gameplay loop. Also you can easily avoid the whip combo by just block-block-dodge-block. You will have 3 stacks and even be able to perform a gunstrike. And stats overall can put the weight on themselves: blocking hammer, knife and chainsword deal significantly more damage then other counterparts, power sword and fist became lawn mawers that are very effective against crowds. Yes, blocking weapons are not as easy to use as fencing where you can parry everything without thinking at all. Block weapons relate to more precise button presses, some tactical thinking and combining it with range weapons. But in the end they produce a lot more damage. For example when I used a blocking hammer last time I ended up with almost 37k damage and every time I used it I always had 25+k. While with fencing one my average was 16-19k and maximum was 23,5k. It's 50-60% more damage. This is anything but underperforming.
I think you made some great points, and I even got my first Solo Lethal Clear with Vanguard Block Chainsword yesterday and I still haven't been able to do it with fencing on Vanguard so I think I may make another video showing the good side of Block weapons. I was a bit on harsh on it. But i think a lot of average players are still going to have a hard time with block because it's harder to work with, although the potential is higher.
@@BrentCox2B Lies of P experience was very useful here, I didn't need to get used to gameplay change since I'm very much familiar with the "parry first, attack after" concept😁 Also I'm completely certain that survivability depends 90% on the player and 10% the weapon. If a person understands how to survive in this game, he will do it with any weapon. If he doesn't, no build or S-tier weapon won't help him, he will die a lot. Personally I use block weapons on every single class nowdays. Tactical nukes everything with parry scan (I had a match today when I managed to get 3 stacks from a warrior, scan a tyrant and chop off a quater of his health bar with fully charged attack). Vanguard finally deals great damage (was the weakest in this department before). Bulwark became even more of a menace then he was. Assault is OP now with blocking hammer since damage and cleaving potential also affect groundpound. And sniper is finally good against targets with small head. He was nearly useless on bosses before outside the permastun knife bug, now he has great melee damage capabilities.
@Sargatas I freakin loved Lies of P! But I played it more like bloodborne and didnt parry at all until the last couple bosses But yeah agreed, surviveability is pretty dependent on the player
@@BrentCox2B well...exactly the same concept here: block everything, then counterattack. With one difference that in SM2 no one has 10-hit combos and your attacks are very fast. Which is 10 times easier because in Lies of P you have only 4 parry frames. The most unforgivable parries I know in gaming.
I had no idea you lost all of your block stacks if you choose to attack with only one or two stacks. That's brutal, man. Blocking weapons are so punishing to use if you mess up the timing. Blocking weapons clearly need more help to make them viable at higher difficulty levels. Maybe there's a niche build that relies on perfect dodges to get around blocking weapon's weaknesses, but I don't have the mechanical skill to make that work.
Block chainsword is about the only one that feels efficient, hammer is too alow to take advantage of it the stacks and the damage is not consisent. Devs dont understand the flaws behind their melee weapons. Hammer is slow as hell, fist is also slow and doesnt do enough damage.
Still don’t see a reason to bother myself with block weapons. Because the whole melee system build around parrying/counterattack sequence in the first place. I’d rather preferred much more aggressive system when your melee swings kill small dudes and stagger majoris enemies and push them back creating space and sort of defense perimeter around you. Devs can even leave parry mechanics but make it occasional and more skill dependent with greater benefits like insta majors take down. Right now you basically forced to rely on parry or you just die. Majoris ignore your hits and just do their thing breaking your combo, sword warriors can block everything except charged hit and in general game just spam you with endless parry and heavy attacks that you can’t ignore.
Yeah its definitely kinda weird, but after messing with it some more, the chainsword in particular is not bad. Fencing has better survival but Block has better potential to do damage. But yeah I think they could have implemented it a bit better
@ potential is a key word. Reality is that you’ll deal more damage when staying alive. Even in your video you waisting too much time blocking attacks and not doing any damage. While with fencing weapons you methodically killing majoris’ and sustaining survivability
Saber just straight up lies about these patches. The zonethropes fighting style is still the same bull shit they have always done. I like the new block weopons, if it hadn’t messed up the fencing weopons .
Update for HotFix 5.1 which just happened this morning
Adrenaline Surge at 3 Stacks now gives 2 Armor Segments after a successful strike on an enemy
Fencing has also been fixed now
Instead of losing the damage multiplier on your first strike, it should be on a reset timer you can maintain throughout combat. So you can actually be aggressive.
Yeah I agree, I dont think that would be too strong but it would be enough to give it that bit of extra oomph
Block is decent now but needs just a bit more care. Since you cannot fend off and stop enemies' chain attacks i would like to block even red attacks, and executions should not suck the adrenaline stack
I think that sounds like a pretty good idea. I still have a tough time with Red Attacks haha
@BrentCox2B muscle memory kicks in lol, i can relate, especially on lethal solo
The block is all about patience, bc at 7:00 you do the same thing i caught myself doing & stealing hits in between their chain resetting the stacks. For context ( i cant prove just trust) i took on 5 sword/whip guys solo & killed all of them incredibly fast by hitting my initial stagger from first strike w a sprinting cleave (chainsword) backed up, got my 3 stack & just fired another sprinting cleave & just started spamming shoulder bash & i was killing them so fast i wouldnt stop to execute them id just keep stabbing. It can take an eternity to kill one if you play those group fights w/o optimizing the explosion
Thats really interesting, I'll have to try that.
I was messing with Block Chainsword some more and Solo cleared lethal with it on Vaguard so Im starting to like it a little more
Perfect blocks should basically reflect the stagger and damage of the blocked attack to the enemies in your front 90, the damage should be split evenly. e.g. You perfect block an attack that would stagger you and deal 100 damage, there are 5 enemies in your front 90. The enemies would all suffer a minor stagger (enough to interrupt an attack animation) along with 20 damage. I want block weapons to handle swarms like the fencing weapons handle 1v1s, with balanced being literally what is says on the label. You shouldnt be able to in any reasonable time-frame, perfect block majoris or higher to death, but it should keep them at bay while handling the minoris so that a ranged or parry fighter can take out the bigguns. Having the explosion tied to the 3rd block instead of the attack after the 3rd block could also work . Thats my opinion anyway.
I think that would make the Playstyle of the Block weapons a lot more fun
I haven’t had any trouble with fencing. The only thing that seems different is all of the weapons seem to use the late timing now. Just one quick tap at the very beginning of the enemy windup. Don’t hold it, just tap the parry button.
@elroythewonderboy its bugged brother, it was confirmed be the developers in the official Space Marine Discord.
That being said, its not TOO bad just takes a little getting used to
My thought pretty much summed up in a video.
Blocking stacks should be permanent until you attack with a max stack, add an attack buff or damage reduction buff per stack that persists for 8-10 sec after a max stack blow!
Yeah that would be sweet. Therenis an attack buff with just 1 or 2 stacks but it dies off after like 2.5 seconds which is way too fast
this is the best blocking change that i've seen recommended. hopefully devs will do something similar
For the whip tyranids I block, block, perfect dodge, gun strike. I have found this to be more consistent.
You can literally just parry everything to get free charges… idk why everyone insist on dodging. Even with the client side dodge buff
That sounds like it might be cool, Ill try it out!
I think people make huge mistake trying to play with block weapons like with fencing and then saying that it's worse. Of course it will be this way because you try to make a sword out of a hammer. First off - it performs lot better with burst range weapon (plasma, melta) that you can use simultaniously along with your melee one. So you can shoot blocking some hits in the process and then deal big damage. For example vanguard became S-tier with very high damage after 5.0 just because his melee damage has been doubled.
Secondly: you have shown the list of "how block works", but you almost don't utilize the part where it says that it works 2,5 sec after the first hit. With a chainsword for example if you manage to get 3 stacks you do light-light-heavy and make a major red instantly. Especially strong on tactical because of parry scan perk.
Thirdly: all melee majors and extremis can do a 3-hit combo. You block it all without attacking in a row, it takes 2 seconds or so, and kill him afterwards in 2 more (at least it works like this with hammer, chainsword and knife). You basically have a bulwark instakill perk on command on any class except heavy.
You said right about that you should not be aiming just for getting 3 stacks, but trying to attack every time after a block is a bad idea either. It's in the middle. But no matter of enemy attack, you must block it all first and then hit yourself. Lots of parry games build on this particular gameplay loop.
Also you can easily avoid the whip combo by just block-block-dodge-block. You will have 3 stacks and even be able to perform a gunstrike.
And stats overall can put the weight on themselves: blocking hammer, knife and chainsword deal significantly more damage then other counterparts, power sword and fist became lawn mawers that are very effective against crowds.
Yes, blocking weapons are not as easy to use as fencing where you can parry everything without thinking at all. Block weapons relate to more precise button presses, some tactical thinking and combining it with range weapons. But in the end they produce a lot more damage. For example when I used a blocking hammer last time I ended up with almost 37k damage and every time I used it I always had 25+k. While with fencing one my average was 16-19k and maximum was 23,5k. It's 50-60% more damage. This is anything but underperforming.
I think you made some great points, and I even got my first Solo Lethal Clear with Vanguard Block Chainsword yesterday and I still haven't been able to do it with fencing on Vanguard so I think I may make another video showing the good side of Block weapons. I was a bit on harsh on it. But i think a lot of average players are still going to have a hard time with block because it's harder to work with, although the potential is higher.
@@BrentCox2B Lies of P experience was very useful here, I didn't need to get used to gameplay change since I'm very much familiar with the "parry first, attack after" concept😁
Also I'm completely certain that survivability depends 90% on the player and 10% the weapon. If a person understands how to survive in this game, he will do it with any weapon. If he doesn't, no build or S-tier weapon won't help him, he will die a lot.
Personally I use block weapons on every single class nowdays. Tactical nukes everything with parry scan (I had a match today when I managed to get 3 stacks from a warrior, scan a tyrant and chop off a quater of his health bar with fully charged attack). Vanguard finally deals great damage (was the weakest in this department before). Bulwark became even more of a menace then he was. Assault is OP now with blocking hammer since damage and cleaving potential also affect groundpound. And sniper is finally good against targets with small head. He was nearly useless on bosses before outside the permastun knife bug, now he has great melee damage capabilities.
@Sargatas I freakin loved Lies of P! But I played it more like bloodborne and didnt parry at all until the last couple bosses
But yeah agreed, surviveability is pretty dependent on the player
@@BrentCox2B well...exactly the same concept here: block everything, then counterattack. With one difference that in SM2 no one has 10-hit combos and your attacks are very fast. Which is 10 times easier because in Lies of P you have only 4 parry frames. The most unforgivable parries I know in gaming.
@@Sargatas yeah those parries were tough to get used to in Lies of P. Super fun game though
I had no idea you lost all of your block stacks if you choose to attack with only one or two stacks. That's brutal, man. Blocking weapons are so punishing to use if you mess up the timing.
Blocking weapons clearly need more help to make them viable at higher difficulty levels. Maybe there's a niche build that relies on perfect dodges to get around blocking weapon's weaknesses, but I don't have the mechanical skill to make that work.
Yeah it's punishing for sure. Hopefully they buff it a tiny bit more
Block chainsword is about the only one that feels efficient, hammer is too alow to take advantage of it the stacks and the damage is not consisent. Devs dont understand the flaws behind their melee weapons. Hammer is slow as hell, fist is also slow and doesnt do enough damage.
Agreed, I dont like the Block Hammer either. Never leveled up my power fist yet.
Block Knife is not too bad but chainsword still better
Still don’t see a reason to bother myself with block weapons. Because the whole melee system build around parrying/counterattack sequence in the first place. I’d rather preferred much more aggressive system when your melee swings kill small dudes and stagger majoris enemies and push them back creating space and sort of defense perimeter around you. Devs can even leave parry mechanics but make it occasional and more skill dependent with greater benefits like insta majors take down. Right now you basically forced to rely on parry or you just die. Majoris ignore your hits and just do their thing breaking your combo, sword warriors can block everything except charged hit and in general game just spam you with endless parry and heavy attacks that you can’t ignore.
Yeah its definitely kinda weird, but after messing with it some more, the chainsword in particular is not bad. Fencing has better survival but Block has better potential to do damage.
But yeah I think they could have implemented it a bit better
@ potential is a key word. Reality is that you’ll deal more damage when staying alive. Even in your video you waisting too much time blocking attacks and not doing any damage. While with fencing weapons you methodically killing majoris’ and sustaining survivability
They fixed the fencing weapons
@Sstivers90 yeah I read that in the 5.1 Patch Notes! They feel pretty good now
@ I can’t block to save my life. I don’t understand how to build fury reliably.
I don’t get why every block weapon has a stronger base damage than the variants except power sword
I know, its kind of a bummer. But I think it's the fastest so there's that at least
Saber just straight up lies about these patches. The zonethropes fighting style is still the same bull shit they have always done. I like the new block weopons, if it hadn’t messed up the fencing weopons .
Saber is obsessed with having unnecessary weapon variety. They should have removed block weapons totally
Wild take