Ultimate Ness is the closest we get to PM/P+ Ness (especially with his specials, in which all of his specials have really good utility unlike in Melee where they were awful) But PM/P+ Ness is the best version of Ness ever Nevertheless, Ness is always a cool character
You've got most of the basic ideas of why Ness is bad in Melee, but a lot of the specifics you give are wrong. For one, your idea of speed is really reductive. Peach is slow in some ways, but one of the main reasons why she is good is because of where she is specifically fast; Float Cancel. Similarly, Ness has some of the largest autocancel windows in the game. You say his dair isnt that good but he actually has one of the best dairs in the game. Could easily be anywhere from 2nd to 4th best dair due to its 50 frame long autocancel window that makes it 0 on shield and combo longer than Falcon's dair. His fsmash is actually very good...again one of the best of its kind in Melee having excellent reach and a sweetspot tied for the highest damage single-hit fsmash in the game. And I get that this is a video about how Ness is bad, and he is bad, but you didn't even bring up his excellent dash attack. Also, his YYG is very consistent and the frame window for getting it is pretty forgiving. If you have a reliable setup for it(jab reset to upsmash for example) then you can get it reliably. The kill % you gave for upsmash is also wrong; you arent hitting with the strong part of it. At its sweetspot it kills like 170-220% depending on who you're hitting. Still a horrible move for that. That and PM kinda just.....makes Ness into a better character yes, but also has little regard for how Ness was played in Melee at high level. Its as if people who didn't play Ness took him and said "Okay this will make him a better character" and it did, but its less of an upgrade and more of a....different game. Definitely right about that recovery stuff and range stuff though. A lot of ppl dont get how range is such a big problem for him.
Oh also, in defense of PK Thunder, upB has more to it than recovery. Yes its very slow, but its also a laser. You can't attack/destroy it except with a very small selection of attacks. This means that if you have time to pull it out it will beat just about any other move in a head-to-head clash. Another bonus of Ness that applies to many of his attacks(including upB) are his small hitboxes shieldpoke pretty well if you are aiming to do that. PK Fire also wins or ties in clashes with all other projectiles so that's nifty....and you can edge cancel it.
It’s still sad, then, that he has very noticeable advantages, and even one of the most broken techniques of jacketing, and still is only just above Kirby and Bowser in Melee. Just because he doesn’t have enough range and is overall slow. No wonder why it basically took a revamping of movement in general to make him overtly good. Furthermore, when Ness became good people play him like Melee Fox. Ness literally had to become not himself to be viable.
@@iantaakalla8180 No you miss the point. He doesnt HAVE to become not himself to be good. The people who made him not himself just made more changes than they needed to.
Glad someone realized dash attack is really good, considering how disjointed it is. I wall out a lot of players and win neutral with dash attack alone most of the time. It leaves me scratching my head that a lot of Ness mains in all smash games don't use dash attack as much as they should.
Not going to lie, as a pikachu main, I think ness beats pikachu in p+, I honestly can't find anything to contend with ness's fair since the hitbox got bigger, and he's floaty, which makes it hard to edgeguard him off stage. In melee though, pikachu beats ness easily.
If Ness were a better character in melee I would have chosen him as my main. I love his movement, DJC's, and combos on fast fallers. He just kinda sucks in every other area though :(
the reason why ness has been nerfed is becuse earthbound 2 have no one of the best selling game the american don't like the game becuse is a 16 bit game
Fact: Zelda's Down smash Faster than Fastest character's neutral attack. İ always fo that when i stuck cpu's Neutral Attack i always do that it really works Good but not very Strong Smash Attack.
For some reason I have problems with Ness in slippi. I main Link/Yink and Ness seems to always be a problem for me. I just started playing a couple days ago so maybe I’ll figure it out.
Why people say ness is bad 1 Low survival Hes light weight 2 Weak smash attacks and most of his moves dont do that much damage 3 His range is awful 4 He is slow 5 Bad matchups 6 Awful Special moves 7 His recovery is one of thw worst. Its powerful amd has decent range But its slow, he can be gumped, comboed, he will free fall if it dosent suceed and can get hit easily unless if its bowser and your far away. 8 Some of gis moves are laggy 9 Combunation of slow, weak, bad special moves, low survival and some attacks are laggy. He Has Positives He can escape comboes due to his light weight He has a killthrow and decent meteor smash Most of his attacls are fast though they are short and weak Only good Matchups +2 Bowser, pichu, Zelda +1 Kirby Its better than kirby and Bowser at least
Hes not even that light. Hes heavier than peach , sheik, zelda, ice climbers, marth, mewtwo, roy, young link, Falco, Pikachu, fox, kirby, puff, MGW, and pichu all in order
I main Ness in Melee and he’s the BOSS. Even if his specials are all dogshit, his ariels are all pretty damn good. Nair will always be hilarious with how it’s better backwards though.
Hey, i want to join PM competitive comunity, i just have a question, this game had fixed buffer?, like i can play with any controller i want or i need gamecube controlelr
"Hm, this video is very well-made, and I can tell that this guy has experience with Ness to know what he's talk-..." "Did he just _dash-grab_ with Ness?"
As a Ness main in Melee too, I feel like there's so much lost potential to the character. If he was an actual grappler with decent grab range, I feel like he could at least be a (hardly) viable mid tier, but now he's just an obviously unfinished, sluggish mess of a character.
Ness is nice though in melee , he has actually a crazy recovery Imo as opposed to every other game that comes after. While in melee he has the longest recovery and it doesn't cut your remaining distance in half when someone trades into you. Up B is pretty good for camping/baiting but it's not his main recovery and it's not in any currently competitive game I actually dislike ness in P+ because you can't time your DJC the same way and most PSI Magnet is a pale imitation of his real DJC Edit: 2:18 , glosses over the best aerials(upair) and shows them off very poorly(fair). Dair took the clout, is pretty situational and got called mid for it. I don't enjoy pm dair and at this point there just not the same character Edit2: 11:41 with commentary it's perfect lol. I got to see what I wanted. I'm not talking about the double jump bair that is way worse than if you had sharked upairs in melee but the UltNess like grab xD
Trying to steer PK flash is like trying to run in a dream
True
Fr
Ultimate Ness is the closest we get to PM/P+ Ness (especially with his specials, in which all of his specials have really good utility unlike in Melee where they were awful)
But PM/P+ Ness is the best version of Ness ever
Nevertheless, Ness is always a cool character
And yet, apparently, Ness still sucks in P+ despite being a new character to play.
You've got most of the basic ideas of why Ness is bad in Melee, but a lot of the specifics you give are wrong. For one, your idea of speed is really reductive. Peach is slow in some ways, but one of the main reasons why she is good is because of where she is specifically fast; Float Cancel. Similarly, Ness has some of the largest autocancel windows in the game. You say his dair isnt that good but he actually has one of the best dairs in the game. Could easily be anywhere from 2nd to 4th best dair due to its 50 frame long autocancel window that makes it 0 on shield and combo longer than Falcon's dair. His fsmash is actually very good...again one of the best of its kind in Melee having excellent reach and a sweetspot tied for the highest damage single-hit fsmash in the game. And I get that this is a video about how Ness is bad, and he is bad, but you didn't even bring up his excellent dash attack. Also, his YYG is very consistent and the frame window for getting it is pretty forgiving. If you have a reliable setup for it(jab reset to upsmash for example) then you can get it reliably. The kill % you gave for upsmash is also wrong; you arent hitting with the strong part of it. At its sweetspot it kills like 170-220% depending on who you're hitting. Still a horrible move for that.
That and PM kinda just.....makes Ness into a better character yes, but also has little regard for how Ness was played in Melee at high level. Its as if people who didn't play Ness took him and said "Okay this will make him a better character" and it did, but its less of an upgrade and more of a....different game.
Definitely right about that recovery stuff and range stuff though. A lot of ppl dont get how range is such a big problem for him.
Oh also, in defense of PK Thunder, upB has more to it than recovery. Yes its very slow, but its also a laser. You can't attack/destroy it except with a very small selection of attacks. This means that if you have time to pull it out it will beat just about any other move in a head-to-head clash. Another bonus of Ness that applies to many of his attacks(including upB) are his small hitboxes shieldpoke pretty well if you are aiming to do that.
PK Fire also wins or ties in clashes with all other projectiles so that's nifty....and you can edge cancel it.
It’s still sad, then, that he has very noticeable advantages, and even one of the most broken techniques of jacketing, and still is only just above Kirby and Bowser in Melee. Just because he doesn’t have enough range and is overall slow. No wonder why it basically took a revamping of movement in general to make him overtly good. Furthermore, when Ness became good people play him like Melee Fox. Ness literally had to become not himself to be viable.
@@iantaakalla8180 No you miss the point. He doesnt HAVE to become not himself to be good. The people who made him not himself just made more changes than they needed to.
Glad someone realized dash attack is really good, considering how disjointed it is. I wall out a lot of players and win neutral with dash attack alone most of the time. It leaves me scratching my head that a lot of Ness mains in all smash games don't use dash attack as much as they should.
I'm curious, what do you mean by Yo-Yo glitch being consistent? I thought it was frame perfect?
Not going to lie, as a pikachu main, I think ness beats pikachu in p+, I honestly can't find anything to contend with ness's fair since the hitbox got bigger, and he's floaty, which makes it hard to edgeguard him off stage. In melee though, pikachu beats ness easily.
Behind that smile is a cold-blooded murderer
Damn the Ultimate devs absolutely played PM. PM's Magnet looks like it works a lot like how Ultimate's Magnet ended up working. That's... ironic fr
If Ness were a better character in melee I would have chosen him as my main.
I love his movement, DJC's, and combos on fast fallers. He just kinda sucks in every other area though :(
the reason why ness has been nerfed is becuse earthbound 2 have no one of the best selling game the american don't like the game becuse is a 16 bit game
Ness is Captain Falcons son.
He taught him the stomp!
SSB Ness purists who have been with the game for every iteration heard this video around the world
love the Earthbound music in the video
Fact: Zelda's Down smash Faster than Fastest character's neutral attack. İ always fo that when i stuck cpu's Neutral Attack i always do that it really works Good but not very Strong Smash Attack.
For some reason I have problems with Ness in slippi. I main Link/Yink and Ness seems to always be a problem for me. I just started playing a couple days ago so maybe I’ll figure it out.
The tas ness was flying
Can you plz make a list of the songs in this video
The boy is back!
Why people say ness is bad
1 Low survival Hes light weight
2 Weak smash attacks and most of his moves dont do that much damage
3 His range is awful
4 He is slow
5 Bad matchups
6 Awful Special moves
7 His recovery is one of thw worst.
Its powerful amd has decent range
But its slow, he can be gumped, comboed, he will free fall if it dosent suceed and can get hit easily unless if its bowser and your far away.
8 Some of gis moves are laggy
9 Combunation of slow, weak, bad special moves, low survival and some attacks are laggy.
He Has Positives
He can escape comboes due to his light weight
He has a killthrow and decent meteor smash
Most of his attacls are fast though they are short and weak
Only good Matchups
+2 Bowser, pichu, Zelda
+1 Kirby
Its better than kirby and Bowser at least
1. Same with fox
2. No they actually do
3. Fair
4. So is peach
5. Fair
6. Fair
7. Falco also has a shit recovery
8. Same with ganon and falcon
He do have shit recovery, Ness Ness just pure garbage
Hes not even that light. Hes heavier than peach , sheik, zelda, ice climbers, marth, mewtwo, roy, young link, Falco, Pikachu, fox, kirby, puff, MGW, and pichu all in order
I get the feeling Ness's moveset doesn't do him any favors
I think that mewtwo and ness are meant for tas game play
PK FIRE
But it would be funny
garbage? what about hbox ness..
I main Ness in Melee and he’s the BOSS. Even if his specials are all dogshit, his ariels are all pretty damn good. Nair will always be hilarious with how it’s better backwards though.
Ness is cool
While Ness was a much better fighter in Brawl, a problem in Brawl was his ten extra frames when he got released from grabs.
ness is sick
Yes, ness is physically sick so he moves sluggishly and can’t do ranged attacks.
@@iantaakalla8180 he probably got home sick from fighting on final destination in the middle of nowhere in the void of space
I hope they find a cure
Yeah… HOMESICK!!!!!!
ba dum tsss
We need to call doc now!!!!
wow I forgot I was that bad back then
Melee Ness has legit the dead last worst grab of any character in the whole game. It's brutally bad
Have you seen Bowser's grab?
@@kfcfrychuckin946 Yes.
It's garbage as Fuck
As a wise and once said, you have to be stuck in a coma to be hit by pk trash
Ngl I agree melee ness is so butt💀
I main Pichu in Melee because I'm a masochist...
Hey, i want to join PM competitive comunity, i just have a question, this game had fixed buffer?, like i can play with any controller i want or i need gamecube controlelr
"Hm, this video is very well-made, and I can tell that this guy has experience with Ness to know what he's talk-..."
"Did he just _dash-grab_ with Ness?"
As a Ness main in Melee too, I feel like there's so much lost potential to the character. If he was an actual grappler with decent grab range, I feel like he could at least be a (hardly) viable mid tier, but now he's just an obviously unfinished, sluggish mess of a character.
doesnt ness already have a diagonal angle on pk fire in melee?
Ayyye, i'm a simple man, i see brockhampton, i press like
Nice music choices
Ness is nice though in melee , he has actually a crazy recovery Imo as opposed to every other game that comes after. While in melee he has the longest recovery and it doesn't cut your remaining distance in half when someone trades into you. Up B is pretty good for camping/baiting but it's not his main recovery and it's not in any currently competitive game
I actually dislike ness in P+ because you can't time your DJC the same way and most PSI Magnet is a pale imitation of his real DJC
Edit: 2:18 , glosses over the best aerials(upair) and shows them off very poorly(fair). Dair took the clout, is pretty situational and got called mid for it. I don't enjoy pm dair and at this point there just not the same character
Edit2: 11:41 with commentary it's perfect lol.
I got to see what I wanted. I'm not talking about the double jump bair that is way worse than if you had sharked upairs in melee but the UltNess like grab xD
good video! but ness still sucks in P+ ;).
LMAO