Why Link is PAINFULLY AVERAGE in Melee, and how he changed in Project M
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2024
- Link is middle of the road in Melee's ever changing meta. Being barely mid-tier basically means you aren't that viable in the Melee Meta. Link does get plenty of buffs in Project M and Project Plus, landing in the upper end of the B Tier which is respectable even in todays meta.
#projectm #melee #ssbm #projectplus
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0:00 Why Link is Painfully Average in Melee
9:02 Link in PM/Project Plus
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I got bopped by a Link in Melee at my own tournament last weekend, true story
Well hey, props to the Link main for schmooving with him lol.
@@NPRoyalty For sure! He's top 10 in the state so it's understandable
@@gnardawgyt Exactly, would love to hear of a Link main getting a high placement at a major one day, chances are low but they're not zero! :)
Link is my favourite character to watch in Melee. He can do some NUTTY stuff
I swear there is always a solid link at every local lol
Link is a secret high tier and you can quote me on that
true
Ahh a man with knowledge
Zac is now collabing with others!
We love character development.
Insane how Link won his first major
what
@@Bruce-906 aklo won a major using link as a secondary
@@Havri how
@@Bruce-906 master sword and kicking
Can you do one of these for mewtwo? He’s probably had the most drastic changes in tier placement from melee to p+
I think this is series is actually based on another very similar series made by Junebug which features MewTwo in one of the episodes. Here's a link if you're interested th-cam.com/video/G7kYJVF3-FE/w-d-xo.html
His boomerang is so underrated, especially when it's on the way back to you; it's not hard to hit your target this way. Combining this with arrows and bombs really makes it a cool kit imo. I just gotta get better with his bombs 😅
Why did they remove his Gale Boomerang in Project M? I thought that was a really cool if minor addition to his moveset. He doesn't even use a normal boomerang in Twilight Princess.
Because it's garbage
Im a melee player learning PM Wario and god damn theres a lot of matchups. Im speedrunning these videos, skipping to the what's different part and it's very helpful. Thanks for sharing your knowledge
Link being able to swap swings with Marth is actually just Sakurai's way of saying that Link is canonically better than Marth.
I knew this whole time lol
cool video really wanted to watch more
Melee Link main since day one back in January 2020. You learn a lot on your own and from other Link players. It sucks that he initially is a pretty below average and I will admit, nieche fighter, but getting confirms down and learning good movement helps a lot. And talking about Young Link to a Link main is a federal crime. Great video.
*Nietzsche fighter
@@alexmeyers8771 no wonder he struggles, with that negative attitude
i wish they kept the gale boomerang. this was one of the coolest aspects of link's kit that just goes underappreciated because he's considered low tier in brawl.
link is definitely underrated. he's not nearly on the same level as the broken characters but his strengths are outstanding. basically, link in brawl shuts down your opponent's options.
between the boomerang and the bomb, you throw them both out and suddenly your opponent has 2 extra things to keep track of. they aren't careful with their aerials, bomb. they aren't careful about in front of them, sword. behind them, the boomerang pulls you into his sword options. his projectiles can put out so much pressure that his close range moves become just that much more powerful.
with just the regular boomerang, it's boring. it goes out, and comes back. sure, maybe they get hit, and that's cool, but the gale boomerang screwing with your opponent's position so much opens up more options for link as well as narrowing your opponent's options. and i think that's just way cooler.
Another Banger Honest Content Zaddy
What's the song at 6:35
What a coincidence im subbed to HONEST CONTENT and Boardgames7
Why on earth they didn't use Link with his Breath of the Wild design?
Breath of the wild don't exist in 2001
@@HospitalTaDaronn-mc8mzlmao
I absolutely love these informative videos
Love the content
Edit because as a melee Link main I had some things to say:
I have to say that PM did not improve him in any significant ways that would make him a high tier and he is still a painfully middle tier character. PM actually nerfed him in ways that would have been a supplement if they transferred to PM.
1. While in pm zair is better for combat at mid/high percents, it is worse or the same as melee in the worst ways. For example, it is shorter in pm and cannot grab the walls of the stage which is a significant part of his recovery mix up options in melee. If it were a bit longer it would be better, but not being able to have the option to grab the stage really hurts his recovery.
2. With that aforementioned shorter distance came the drawback that Link’s midrange threat is nerfed since zair edge-cancel shenanigans are difficult to deal with. His zair simply threatens less space now as a tradeoff for hooking opponents in which can be a detriment with how little hitstun it does.
3. They didn’t fix the main issue with his grab which is the end lag if he whiffs. Why keep such a horrible mechanic? It’s not even canon to the games 😤 lol.
4. Melee Link upB is still better than P+ because it can kill in the air. The final strong hitbox is so weak in PM that it hardly launches far even at high percents. The spike hitbox while grounded is also longer lasting and hits at more ridiculous angles in melee, which is not quite the case in PM.
In melee there is a hitbox on the underside and inner hitbox near the hilt of the blade that can send at such a diagonal that almost no one can recover due to the spike mechanics.
The main thing that helps him the most in PM is AGT. Were it not for AGT he would probably be way worse. Being able to air dodge one way while throwing a bomb the opposite way is broken😵💫
Despite this strength, it is not as game changing for Link alone because everyone can do it. Not only this but the window for catching projectiles is larger, making it easier to reverse a situation if you are practiced in catching projectiles.
Sorry for the late reply. I do want to address point 3 though. Yeah, Link's grab has a large amount of end-lag if he whiffs (still WAY better than Melee where he sits there for FIVE YEARS before being ready again), but consider, the grab is pretty long (probably one of the longest tether grabs I think), comes out quickly, and, like all grabs, is completely unblockable (Although you can dodge it... If you're fast enough that is. Which you probably won't be.) So Link can just throw out a grab instantly at any time and you better either be dodging or simply NOT in the area or Link gets a free combo.
I think P+ link is quite a bit stronger than you say lmao. Definitely an upper mid tier, with a crazy set of normals and a RIDICULOUS punish. top 10 in terms of punishes, even. If he gets a grab or uptilt its over and he can kill very easily.
Hell, even in 3.6 blue was a super strong player with link and now he's doing even better.
The things you've pointed out are either gimmicks (zair edgecancels), not all that relevant (aerial up-b killing), things that have almost always been a part of link's design (grounded hookshot having alot of lag, which is still true for most of the other tethers in the game), or dumb shit that has no business being in the game (spike angles)
@@matthewzakrzewski1797 Blue’s recent performances have had me questioning this post lol. He showed off things I didn’t know Link could do. His bomb recoveries are definitely more reliable in P+ and I don’t think I gave him a fair shake with regard to AGT being as powerful.
Although I don’t think that performance = tier placement. Matchup unfamiliarity has a lot to do with why Blue does so well since he is one of the few Links out there. Link still suffers from the same things because of his kit.
I concede the point that zair edge-cancel is a gimmick but I wouldn’t say that the spike angles have changed that drastically that up-b isn’t still a menace when set up correctly. I wouldn’t be able to say his normals make him upper-mid tier though because the upper tier and even upper mid-tier characters also have ridiculous normals with even better recoveries. Based on the Jan 2022 tier list, Link is already in B-tier. Are you saying he is in the same league as Knuckles, Marth, Ike, and Lucas?
Edit: Tier list - smashboards.com/threads/new-official-project-v-2-29-tier-list-released.516700/
@@luiegiii
To be fair, as a roy main my view on link is probably a little tainted by my experiences in the mu, it can be quite hellish lol.
My personal way I view the tierlist is a little different from the most recent "official" one. I personally have a b+ tier that I consider the upper mid where most of the higher b tier characters would be, like Roy/link/pit/bowser/pika. (Honestly I think bowser and peach are straight up A tier and that Ness should be in C, but that's just how I feel.)
@@matthewzakrzewski1797 I get it. I like Link too and I try to make him work but he’s just not very good versus the top tiers. His OOS options are decent but he struggles to keep up with the speedy characters which is what makes him painfully middle tier still. Roy is right there with him because he is a fastfaller with a weak recovery. If you look at the tier list he is technically a B+ tier as he sits at the upper end of the list with G&W just one spot between Link and Roy.
Consider also that results don’t completely factor into the rankings but rather the potential. Sonic is A+ but (correct me if I’m wrong) he has never won a major. Lunchables plays Roy but he often switches to toon link or Marth because he knows Roy can’t always get the job done. P+ is one of those games where dual-maining could be necessary if you main a mid-tier.
I've played link in almost every smash game project m going has to be the best version of Link currently I've played most unique in fact right now I'm not playing project m link I'm focusing on Toon Link as I feel like he deserves a higher placement But I will still play link from time to time hes one of my favorite characters to play when I just feel like I need a basic swordman he's going to be the character that I rely on to just chill with and I think he's one of the characters I'm most used to playing
Ultimate Link is the best Link imo
@@dhans9662sadly enough
I mained Link in Smash 4 and while he's different in that game a lot of his strengths and weaknesses are the same as in this video
Pk fire
best one yet
Thanks bro
true
down and up air are honestly kind of busted if you're good enough at L-Cancelling, personally I like maining Samus with Link as back up for Marth and Peach (and sometimes JIgglypuff)
Why peach don't save hyrule
Tips
The difference of link and young link aren't that big, probably.
Link (Adult)
Has a better Ko potential, longer range, more menace in final destination, harder to kill, better defence options and kill options.
Young link is faster, better combos, gets less comboed, better recovery, less laggy attacks, better approach, slightly better against high teir characters or upper mid.
You're high. Young Link doesn't have a punish game in Melee. He can't even punish space animals for more than 40% while Link has consistent death combos at all percents.
It's absurd how much people sleep on Link in P+.
yeah but like his projectiles are fun to spam as well as his ariels :D
Knew this would age horribly lol
Why?
@@lightbrand_ The Rofire cameo
@@BONKfrys who's rofire?
Is it T pig?
@@wackywakko6694 Yes
video gaming
young link has a much, smaller grab/hookshot leading to a worse grab and recovery. cc is even worse, and by that I mean yl can almost never kill.
Yeah but YLink is much faster and overall has faster moves. Whilst he has obvious negatives his strengths outweigh links mostly
@@illford6921 Imo they dont
@@illford6921 also, look at sixxs and aklos results compared to anything yl has ever done outside beat hbox
@@illford6921 axe can shvmoove with yl tho
I still they think are about equal, because young link has way better matchups against most high tiers because he doesn't get as cucked by shine or chain grab and his camping game is WAY stronger because of how much faster he is and his projectiles are better. I think Link kill power is so much stronger though that it's very even
Sakurai hate link
6:00 Fox side and up special is literally multiple average recoveries lmaooooooooooooooo.
I do not understand how Ike is higher than Link on the tier list, when Link has projectiles to battle camping where Ike doesn’t
His advantage game is a lot worse, Ike has better confirms, more range, and WAYlre kill power
This video is old but on god I get stuffed by link up b when I go for down air with falco
convenient timing
Supposed to L cancel that downsword
Still my main! Solo Link player here! No regrets!
Smash fans: *Complain about generic anime swordfighters*
Me: Link is THE Generic Anime Swordfighter
Link has dungeon items, so no. Not true.
CC doesn't completely invalidate Melee Link; if you read it and land a well spaced F-smash, they'll eat an easy 40%, largely knocking them out of CC range
Bowser next?
Y’all ain’t play Redx, hunybear, or savestate yet then
I have, character still sucks
Bro you got junebug to ask for a collab. Congrats man
That Smash Remix update was AWESOME! I LOVED IT!
New tier list already out!
S Pikachu Falcon Yoshi Wario
A Falco Marth Sonic Wolf Kirby
B Fox Jigglypuff Bowser Mewtwo Young Link Ganondorf
C Mario DK Conker Ness
D Samus Dr Mario Dark Samus
F Luigi Link
H Lucas
@@StarForceBelmont321 dude sonic is so fun to play
@@toad4552 indeed! Btw Super Sonic costumes are DBZ references
Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan
Legendary Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan God
Ultra Ego
And Mastered Ultra Instinct
Did you notice? Also thoughts on tier list?
@@StarForceBelmont321 is super sonic banned because he seems fucking busted
@@toad4552 yes he's got double attack speed double dashing speed double jumping height and does more damage
That moment of where Link was worse in Brawl.
He become God at killing still
Link Positives
Heavy weight, hard to eliminate
Decent range (above average due to his sword and arrow)
Good range and spacing
Broken back air
3 ways for recovery (bomb, tether recovery and his up B)
Good koing
Good defensive character
Links Negatives
Has laggy attacks
The 6th slowest character
Short wavedash
Jumps give link low height, shorting his survival of stage
Being easily comboed
Struggles against high teir characters
Bad approach
C teir
(Average)
Idk what you think is "broken" about Bair. The move barely even functions in most practical settings. It's rarely used in optimal combos for a reason.
Link schtink
The character is not bad he is just boring to play
6:28
Holding crouch cancel? I didn't know "crouch cancel" was an input.