Should Karate Be a Sport? | ART OF ONE DOJO
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ย. 2020
- Should Karate or other Martial Arts be a sport? Karate is included in the next Tokyo Olympics which brings up a lot of concerns that by transforming martial arts into sports, they become watered down and compromised versions of themselves. Is this true? Should Karate be in the Olympics? Should Karate be a sport?
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But I don't have the Grandmaster plan :(
@@ArtofOneDojo Dan the Man with the Grandmaster Plan!
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I literally was thinking about this question last night.
One of the issues that exists with places that train solely for competition especially those that focus on point systems, is that they don't always learn how to apply real power to their techniques and they don't have the ability to withstand hard punches and kicks. When I was studying Hwa Rang Do in the Early 90's we had a couple of guys come in from one of the local Tae Kwon Do schools. At the time all of the TKD schools in the area were competition focused only, none of them taught self defense and the particular school these two came from only dealt with point sparring and only light contact was allowed but no contact was preferred so neither of them had ever thrown a hard punch nor had they taken a real hit. Both were high ranking students at their former school, both were brown belts. At any rate, their first sparring experience in our school was a bit...painful for them because they have never dealt with people who used any real force. Our normal sparring days we went at about half strength, when we were sparring with new people, we cut that in half even further to about one quarter strength. Even that was more than they were used to. I"ll admit they had speed and could get the hits in, but they weren't very effective and they had good evasive skills, it took a lot of work to actually land a punch on the first one I sparred with, but when I did he was surprised at how hard we were hitting. They did get used to it and were able to develop their technique to add strength without sacrificing speed, accuracy or timing. From what I have seen over the years that seems to be a common thread that schools that focus solely on the sport or competition aspect of it can turn out good tournament fighters, but little else because there are aspects of self defense that are so different from being in the ring or the octagon that while the aren't helpless by any means, they aren't as effective as they could be in self defense situations.
You mentioned kata. Again one thing that you can tell from watching kata and forms competition is which schools teach practical application and which ones don't. I have seen a lot of forms competitions over the years (ESPN used to air them, and I've been to a number of competitions both as a competitor and as a spectator), both empty hand and weapons and when you watch you can tell from their level of focus and intent with the movements whether or not they have the slightest idea what those moves are for. Some are obvious blocks or strikes but even then they have never been trained in the practical use of those techniques and it shows in their forms as they the techniques lack the focus and strength necessary to be effective in a self defense situation. Of late there has been a push for what they call "extreme" martial arts which is really very little of the martial and very much of the "art" and by that I mean you have a few actual techniques interspersed with a flurry of flashy gymnastic and acrobatic movements that while they look really good, are not taught to be combat moves. Interesting that every other "extreme" version of some sport is more dangerous than the sport it is based on but the "extreme" version of martial arts is the complete opposite.
I will say this as well, there are some styles, particularly Judo, that have become so associated with competition that even finding a school that teaches it as a combat art is extremely difficult in some areas. Karate and Kung Fu schools that teach their arts for combat are a lot easier to find but a Judo school....good luck. I know they exist, but they are few and far between and that, I think, is because it has become more known as a competition art than an actual fighting art.
Oh and boxing is another one...MOST boxing coaches teach it for the ring. I personally have never met one that teaches it for self defense, nor have I ever met anyone that trained as a boxed who trained for self defense. I am sure they exist, someone reading this might even know someone like that, but my experiences have been that such are so few and far between that finding someone like that is a rarity indeed.
So let me end my rambling by saying that marital arts as a sport is what it is. Practicality isn't the primary focus and in some cases isn't even addressed. The bad part of that is, when a school is focused solely on competition and sport, aspects of the art tend to get glossed over or even left our completely. You not only lose out on techniques because many techniques are not allowed in competition so schools don't even teach them, but you lose out on learning the history and deeper understanding of the art. If all your are interested in is going to tournaments and winning trophies then sure, sport versions of martial arts are the way to go. If you are looking for practical usage, history and understanding of the totality of a style, then a more traditional school is the way to go. I personally have never had much interest in competing as with all the rules and restrictions there were too many techniques that could not be tested there, but that's just me. I know some people that live for competition, even those that were initially trained with their focus more in practical application were able to adapt to competition and without losing their ability to use their skills on a practical level. Both have their place and neither should be considered the be all, end all of their journey.
I will agree on most of this, but I DID find a Judo school that will teach it as a self defense AND a sport. Actually, it's a Japanese JuJutsu school so we'll learn throws and takedowns, and then Shihan will show us how the Judo version is different, and then he'll show us the difference between doing the "sport" version for points, and the version where you dump them on their head to end a fight.
Have people forgot about Karate Combat, where they tried to make a competition where it's not just points but actual combat.
So true. The majority of fighters transition from the WKF to Karate Combat.
There's no weight classes on the street.
There's no chairs or trash cans in the octagon.
I think you can look at fencing as an extreme example. People have been able to retrieve the "soul" of sword fighting looking at medieval manuscripts and paintings and starting from olympic fencing to make HEMA and SCA and all that stuff. The soul of a martial sport never really dies.
Great job pointing out the differences and essential similarities. I love your content.
There are no chairs in the cage, but being the better fighter in a vacuum leads to more scenarios that result in victory in real fights as well. While the better fighter in a sport setting doesn't always win, they have significantly more choices that can lead to victory if all else is equal. I know all else is never equal, but we account for what we can.
I always hear, oh I'd just go for their eyes. To which I say if you can't even hit their face what makes you think you are more likely to gouge their eyes than vice versa?
@@MesserTAMU Every fight I won in highschool came with the other guy saying "That would have been illegal in a wrestling match/boxing or kickboxing ring/judo mat." My instructor encouraged creativity and awareness of options, so I would grab chairs or garbage can lids. That's one of the big reasons I say that no ring is a "real fight." But likewise, jumping people in back alleys isn't sporting and I don't like no-holds-barded fighting because I've got work in the morning and don't want to be nursing a cracked rib, so there's definitely a place for point sparring and even non-contact sparring.
Like I said above, even after centuries of over-safetying fencing, it's still got enough of the soul of fighting for people to extrapolate out to other sports getting closer to the original intent. Being aware of the differences and the advantages and disadvantages of each is the key to being honest with yourself about your training.
@@sthelenskungfu your instructor encouraged you to f*** people up with chairs and garbage can lids in the gym? That's hardcore bro!!
I think it should be a sport. The reason I say that is because we are no longer in the sword and shield days, making it a sport is a good way to keep Karate going and alive.
The problem with sport is that the goal is to win something external apllying some rules. True karate, not sport karate, have other goals, but most instructors ignore that. The are not prepared to teach anything deeper than a simply soft contact sport with choreography.
Karate as a martial art have way more benefits than as a sport.
I agree with some of points. I'm a TKD instructor in the WTF. TKD started out to be a self defence and now what is being taught is the sports fighting. The reason being that it makes more money, plain and simple. Sports fighting has its limits due to rules put in place. Karate will suffer the same thing as TKD because it all becomes about winning and when this happens rubbish techniques start developing.
Karate-do is not a sport, it is a way of life ✌️
It can be both :)
Karate is a form of combat, self-defense, a martial art. However, this isn't 18th and 19th Okinawa. Karate is all about evolving. We went from "karate jutsu" to "karate do" (courtesy of Gichin Funakoshi). There's nothing wrong with wanting to have a little fun, as long as that does not become the main focus of your training. There needs to be balance. As the legendary Choki Motobu once said "Nothing is more harmful to the world than a martial art that is not effective in actual self-defense."
As for karate being in the Olympics, I see it as neither a good or bad thing. Karate, assuming the Olympics won't be canceled a second time is a one time deal at least for the foreseeable future. Karate just like judo and taekwondo will not be getting any daytime or prime time TV slots. More popular sports like gymnastics, swimming, equestrian, track & field, etc. will not be getting bumped in favor of karate, which by the way won't even be an "official" sport. Its a "demonstration" sport meaning any medals won won't count towards a nation's total medal count.
Olympic karateka like Sakura Kokumai, Kiyou Shimizu (2:07 & 11:23), Ayumi Uekusa, Sandra Sanchez will not become household names like Michael Phelps or Simone Biles. Well, maybe Shimizu (Japan), Uekusa (Japan) and Sanchez (Spain) in their own home countries, but not Kokumai (USA). I don't picture Kokumai talking about how "Ortega makes her taco pop" like Shawn Johnson did in those commercials. We might see her on DWTS though. They'll have anyone on. Olympic judoka Ronda Rousey and Kayla Harrison didn't become well known to the general public till they got into MMA. If you're lucky you might see a quick glimpse at 2 a.m. otherwise people are going to have to look for it online.
I just don't see Olympic karate (if it happens at all) having as much influence as most believe. McDojo's will continue to be McDojo's, sport karate schools will continue to be sport karate schools, self-defense oriented karate schools will continue to be self-defense oriented. Hell, Cobra Kai will probably put more students in karate schools than Olympic karate will. Even if karate will to have remained in the Olympics anyone wanting to compete would have to participate under WKF rules. If you're a tang soo do, kenpo , kajukenbo, shorinji kempo, etc. stylist who like likes to compete in kata you're going to have to learn the kata that are on the official WKF approved list. You can't perform your own system's forms and I don't think many school are going to forgo their own forms in favor of learning at least a dozen or so new forms from shotokan, goju-ryu, shito-ryu and wado-ryu. Some individuals might, but not whole schools. My dissertation is now complete.
I agree here that one of the big issues is that people tend to be highly myopic and use MMA and "combat effectiveness" as the only metrics as to whether a martial arts style has any value. This is very egocentric and self centered thinking.
It IS about context. It's like asking which is the better car? A Ferrari F8 or a Honda Civic? The answer is it depends on what you are using the car for. For all out acceleration thrill, it is probably the F8. For a daily commuter it is probably the Honda Civic. It depends. Similarly, to people who are into MMA, a karate kumite is probably pretty boring. But it's probably really exciting to someone who enjoys karate. An IBJJF match is probably really boring to watch if you are not into BJJ, and so on.
Not to generalize but It's primarily the Western perspective that sees martial arts in only one context: how well can it beat people of other styles, or in a fight/self defence scenario? Martial arts has very different meanings to different people especially in non-Western cultures. Some people practice it strictly for self-defence, others for sport and fitness, others because it is culturally significant to them, and still others don't even practice martial arts at all but love the aesthetic beauty of it.
So then why was karate selected as an Olympic sport compared to, say, BJJ or MMA? Probably because as popular as MMA and BJJ have become karate is likely more ubiquitous around the world.
Another point. Evolution is going to happen - for better or worse - in every arena. It is currently happening in BJJ where the popularity of it as an accessible sport has evolved BJJ - again, for better or worse - to have new stylistic differences. For example, there are many newer modern moves (deep half guard, de la Riva guard, 50/50 guard, berimbolo, stalling, etc) that came about for its effectiveness in sport BJJ which may not be appropriate for practical self defence. Evolution is unavoidable. As Ian Malcolm said about evolution in Jurassic Park, nature finds a way.
Finally, karate evolved towards sports long ago when the Japanese evolved it into a form of recreational sport from the more harder, original form that was practiced in Okinawa. There is a good vid about this from Jesse Enkamp, the "Karate Nerd".
Whether we like it or not: change is inevitable.
I like the idea of a school that gives you all the different aspects of martial arts to try to lean. Then allowing you to branch out to what you like doing the most. This would be a Gem. Thanks for the video.
My Shotokan training growing up was heavily focused on bunkai and self defense. While we did participate in sports competition we never focused on it. However, as sport martial arts have proliferated I have witnessed my old dojo and many others across the country convert to the sport format as a priority to maintain students and keep the doors open. I get it and very much enjoy the sport aspect however it has made it harder and harder to find schools that actually teach the classical ways and newer instructors not even knowing what a majority of the actual bunkai is anymore. You have to be very dedicated and studious in your research to find what these moves you were taught actually do.
As things get further and further into the sport aspects of competition and rules and scoring points, fundamentals tend loosen or become lost.
If we take boxing as an example, how many modern boxers can hit a heavy bag full force bare knuckle with out injury to their hand or wrist because of the reliance on wrapping? How many boxers know what to do in a clinch that doesn’t get stopped by a ref? How many boxers break their hands in street fights because they just aren’t aware of how much their hands are protected by those 16 ounces of foam, rubber and leather? I can point out a lot more not just with boxing but almost every martial art that has gone mainstream as a combat sport... I honestly don’t know if it’s good or bad for this to happen but I do know that historically speaking it does lead to a diluting of the art and whatever it’s intended purpose originally was (in most cases self defense).
To play a little devils advocate, I am pretty certain that the founder of Shotokan, Gichin Funakoshi, would be very happy about Karate going this way. While yes he did believe in the self defense aspect of Karate; he was more about Karate as a way to bring people together, as a means of self improvement, and a method of healing and strength. So I think Olympic Karate is probably the best path forward for Funakoshi‘a vision of Shotokan but sadly it is a path that I won’t be able to follow.
Sports karate is safe space TKD...but dont tell sensei Seth 🤣🤣🤣
LOL (I won't if you won't!)
@@ArtofOneDojo both are very good arts Dan. I just had to drop a Seth diss hahaha Sensei Seth is cool guy
@@SenseiEmmett He is! He told me he loves my thumbnails! So he scores brownie points!
@@ArtofOneDojo he hasn't represented with a smooth black Art of one Dojo hoodie on his vids yet though 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@SenseiEmmett NO HE HASN'T HAS HE??? Only one man so far has been cool enough to do so! :D
In my humble opinion, every martial art has its own system and discipline, and the restrictions on these orthodox combat-focused disciplines will only improve in sport and points based competitions. This is simply because you must master your art enough to restrict it yet use it effectively in sport.
My Sensei Mr. Robert Nii Sackay always used to focus on the control aspect of higher belt Shiotokan Karate. He would constantly tell us Senior Belts that the real "flash" is in maintaining a natural and reflexive Precision, Control and Balance within the limits of every situation.
Because of this, we senior belts had to "roughhouse" with the white and yellow belts at the end of full-dojo training. The juniors got to go full-out without fear, and we got to train for perfection of control by going Half-Kime but full-technique against a less disciplined opponent.
He would also use Kata training to distinguish between art and sport.
Your performance of the kata is technically focused, with your form, breathing and balance being the keys to good scores; thus it is essentially Combat Art.
Your Bunkai, though (ideally) as technically proficient, is more commonly graded on your Economy of Motion, Variety and Variability of Response, as well as the Flow, Effectiveness and Crispness of your movements relative to your opponent. As this shows the deadly aspects of the art in non lethal execution; it is thus a sporting use of deadly skill (ideally...)
I believe a sport teaches you control of your skill, giving you a means to test yourself within set competitive constraints..I think of this approach working the way a top pool player can call every shot: The technique is there so sport can be made of the challenge?
Great jog guys. I recommend you introduce you program to TV channels like discovery etc!
Being a tournament practitioner, I get the appeal of the sport karate and sport training. I've been to multiple schools and here is what I've noticed.
If a school is a sport school, generally their kumite will be better but their self-defense training is not as focused.
If a school is a self-defense school, generally their kumite is not as great, but their self-defense training is more focused on.
Kata is Karate according to most of the style grandmasters, and both school types teach kata well as far as I can tell. At the end of the day, I don't see an issue with it becoming a sport.
As always, excellent video. With this video, I have a new perspective on the topic. I like your content because you are very profesional, and unlike many other "masters" that give opinion based on ignorance, your opinion is based in a profund love to martial arts.
Well the martial arts are about becoming better and stronger and learning...the only day to do that is to focus on the good and not be poisoned by the bad.
Lovely videos
Off subject but I figured that I might offer a suggestion for your next martial arts in the movies discussion.I rarely hear much being said about Ernie Reyes Jr. The star of the Disney presented film the Last Electric Night.Which spawned a tv deries called sidekicks not the Chuck Norris one.He also had a bit role in The Last Dragon,and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2. I might also suggest Ted Jan Roberts who also got into the movie martial arts game early in life and made movies like Dangerous Ground which also featured oddly enough Cory Feldman.I think these would really stroke the nostalgia button for a a lot of 80s kids like me.
When i trained in Taekwondo, it was with a sport and *only* sport school. It's that, that eventually pushed me away.
Great discussion..
Full contact karate, kickboxing/stand up karate,mma karate are sure that gonna help you in self defence situations and perceive the karate spirit. Wkf and Olympics gonna destroy the art . Look that happend to tkd and judo
Sports karate destroyed the fabrication of what karate stands for. Self-defense!!!!
To be honest, Karate styles as a whole have been getting watered down since the 1930s when the founder of Shotokan removed the grappling and only kept the striking. I think it being an olympic sport would help more people get more economic opprotunites all around the world.
very objective views that opened up my perspective!
As a Karate practioner in the 90's and early 2000s, I really feel that Olympic Karate has taken away it's soul. The 90's are essentially the golden age of competition Karate. If you busted your opponent's nose, it's a point. Now, it'll get you disqualified. Seriously, I have nothing against competition karate, but the "soft touch" system being put in place is making (for a lack of a better word) sissies of the practioner. It is a fact, no matter if you're practicing martial arts for sports or self defense, that mental and physical toughness is important if you want to survive a self defense scenario. If you practice today's "soft touch" Olympic Karate, then you're doomed in a self defense scenario. Imagine the catastrophe when you stop fighting because your nose got busted?
As always, a very interesting topic. Of course all karatekas are happy and proud that finally we will be represented at the Olympics. We already have annual world championships, so this is a logical next step. It is up to the worldwide karate community to use this to explain that the kata competition will showcase what all karatekas of the most traditional styles should strive for in their daily practice of the art. Personally, I find "point sparring" kumite rather silly, but then that is what we have; and it is the only way to get most children and younger people, especially in the Western world, to fight (unless they sign up for Kyokushin). I would prefer to see "real kumite" of one of the more classical fighting styles...but this is probably not going to happen as an Olympic sport in my life time. Thank you for your video.
Great video! Totally agree, the martial art, the self defense and the sport can coexist and benefit from each other.
Good video. Like I say a lot...if someone follows budo or the martial way....their journey is just that their journey....always different for the individual person
Another great video discussion with Mr Dan about Karate in the Olympics. The way Mr Dan talks about this subject was well thought out and organized in a way everyone can understand. I have read the previous comments on here, and people have said "Karate is not a sport, it's a way of life!" or "Karate is a Martial Art for Self Defense!". Those statements are correct. Karate is not just a sport, and it is a way of life. Karate is a Martial Art for Self Defense, but it can be much more than that. Mr Dan mentions a point in the discussion that there are Karate schools that just focus on competitive Kata or competitive Kumite. He is right, there are schools that exist that are taught in that way. The point is, Karate is a Martial Art that is all encompassing. Karate is an art for Self Defense, Karate is a Martial Art that can enrich one's life, and Karate can be a Sport. There are many aspects of Karate people can learn from, but do not condone one aspect because you haven't researched or know enough about the other. Happy training, everyone!
The only thing that sucks is putting someone down for what they like. Either side of the fence. Sport or Non Sport. Its ok to have a choice. Move on and live long and happy. Yes, sport waters down the art but you cant do the sport forever. You dont see a tkd player in their 40s plus
No Karate is a way of life not a sport. TKD can have the sport. "The ultimate aim of karate lies not in victory nor defeat, but in the perfection of the character of its participants"
Gichin Funakoshi, father of modern Karate.
That is only the viewpoint of Gichin Funakoshi. His son very much believed in competition and sparring as do other systems. You can have it be a way of life and a sport. Competition can be healthy and good if it's done respectfully, and there is no better way to train and test your self defense then on another person.
@@ArtofOneDojo focus of training shouldn't be competition only a minor part of it.
@@timlinator I can agree with that. I never said it had to be the focus of it, I just pointed out that for those who WANT it, it's available, but it's possible to still compete and keep the integrity of the art.
The unfortunate reality is that once something becomes competitive there will always be the people who push it to the next level, be it the next level in the respective ruleset.
Once thats done this is the bar that needs to be beaten thus creating a new even higher bar.
Now in order to keep up with that increase focus will have to shift towards the, in the respective ruleset, well defined parameters more and more creating what most people call competition focused.
But as long as the rules match the intention of the art the difference between sport and tradition can be quiet narrow (be it self perfection in this case).
Now considering that Funakoshis Shotokan actually is based on self perfection i don't see to big of a gap between tradition and competition.
Of course the Okinawan Jutsu styles are a whole different animal as practicallity is not so important in the WKF ruleset.
That's why i find it a great way to grow both as a person as well as a karateka.
And if you add a class or two per week were they teach these more oldschool ways i find it perfectly fine.
@@mariusgustavus6522 In my style we saw competition beneficial to the extent you could learn from them but they should be the purpose of training. We went to maybe two tournaments per year.
Karate itself doesn’t need to be a sport. If karate practitioners want to compete then they can do kickboxing like wonder boy or machida.
Just because an art is sport base does not make it ineffective. I took up wrestling for self defense originally because it was the only thing available to me. Against your average person a good bacic background in any art can be effective. As a grappler even I enjoy watching the kata competitions, they can be mezmorising and beautiful.
School teacher here. I just want to weigh in a bit from the perspective of curriculum and its place teaching. We really need to consider another word, which is assessment. This is because, in school, assessments measure knowledge and reward successful iteration or re-iteration of that knowledge. In terms of teaching martial arts, we should say that as something like, "assessments reward desired behavior." From the perspective of high-stakes testing in schools, this has lead to the reality that the curriculum is largely defined by the assessments regardless of any other written (or otherwise formal) curriculum that a school may possess. Whatever teachers want to teach--will eventually be reduced to teachers teaching only whatever is necessary to achieve good results on the assessments. Sport karate, at least WKF/Olympic karate only assesses, and thus rewards, a very small set of specific behaviors, and so those versions of karate have been greatly reduced from their original form, and they have become their own styles with curriculum that align with the assessments of the sport. That's not necessarily wrong or even bad, but it does mean that type of sport karate has become completely different from more true and complete forms of karate, and makes for a very poor representation of karate.
Hey, great topic, and great video, it is obviously something that people are passionate about. Videos, like this, are necessary to further the discussion. I would echo the thoughts expressed about educating the public. Traditional schools and sport based schools meet different, yet equally valid needs. I believe that the study of an art can be for self protection, self perfection, and somewhere in between self perception.
Popularising karate through sport will be a mixed bag. The economic impact will put pressure on some more traditional schools to adopt a more commercially attractive posture, but if that means survival so be it. This tension already exists, but I am presuming that karate could follow the TKD model.
From my limited observations, continuous sparring competitions can be mutually beneficial to all those involved. I've heard stories of whole countries overall changing their approach to training and sparring based on their success rate going against those from other countries. Haven't personally gotten that same impression from point sparring competitions however, since you're just chasing points more than anything. But as you said, in either case the key thing to do is to consider how your personal goals align with the school you're training at and are they at least offering you practical street fighting techniques in addition to fight training, or vice-versa.
Should Karate be in the Olympics? Why not.
I started learning Karate in the mid 80's. My Dojo, thought us Kihon, Kata, Kumite and Bunkai. We learned the philosophies of Karate, not to be used outside, only in self defence etc, etc. But we entered competitions, both Kata and Kumite. My instructors were ex-national Kumite champions. We would beat the crap out of each other in training ( that was always fun).
After a few years I moved to another state and joined a different Dojo. Same thing.
If you're good enough and win at the state level you get into the State Team and go for specialised training and if you're good enough you go to the national team. But you don't get there without going through the basic training.
Maybe that's changed now, I've not been in the scene for years.
Will I watch it, heck yes, just like I watch the Boxing, Wrestling, TKD and Judo.
Will it lose it's soul? I think the soul is in the person not the art.
It takes away the true essence of karate. Karate was never meant to be a sport.
My take away is pretty much that your suggesting everyone lighten up. I agree. :) Too much angst, Peace.
I don't have a problem with sport Karate However i do have a problem with Politics in sport Karate what do i mean if i have a school generating a lot of money year after year that school are more favorable then a school who doesn't make that much but the students are outstanding however they are looked over as far as the Olympics is considered. I was told it Only Japanese styles only
Hey can you make a video on how kyokushin affected Japanese and dutch kickboxing as well as the k1?
I think the duty of Karate devotees is to approximate the ability to use the legal techniques at their highest level. Sports competitions with rules are ideal for this.
That is absolutely accurate Sensei Dan, martial arts in the sporting arena, such as in the Olympic domain, has both its positive and negative aspects. Positive as it encourages individuals, to train with more positive motivation and diligence, by wanting to win that gold medal, or first place trophy, ultimately representing their country proudly, in front of the rest of the world!
Negatively however due to the fact some individuals, or their martial arts schools, might invest their primary focus, solely on the specific, limited rules, that limit a vast number of the techniques in their system of combat, such as in the Olympics.
Brazilian jiu-jitsu for example got its first exposure, at the first Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) outside of Brazil back on the 12th of November 1993, with Royce Gracie as its inaugural champion. He was able to the demonstrate the full range of his Brazilian jiu-jitsu (Gracie jiu-jitsu), as there were hardly any rules, even by today's UFC mixed martial arts rules standards, where aside from biting, eye gouging, pretty much anything was allowed, including soccer kicks to the head, while an opponent was on the floor, or kneeling down trying to get up, or even head butts and groin strikes, with bare knuckled, no gloves punching.
Contrast that with today's modern, Brazilian jiu-jitsu competitions, where none of those competition illegal techniques of the first UFC are allowed, or even foot and ankle lock submissions and one could argue that sports Brazilian jiu-jitsu, compared to Royce Gracie's traditional Brazilian, self defense jiu-jitsu, is not as effective, without all the competition rules, that prohibited illegal strikes and submissions from the first UFC.
Sports taekwondo and sports Karate or even Olympic style judo are no different, than their more traditional, less sports and more martial arts, oriented, self defense counterparts. I have seen traditional taekwondo competitions, especially still as practiced vastly in North Korea today, or by the likes of Master Philip Rhee and his brother Simon Rhee and their famous movie star student, Loren Avedon, all three whom by their Grandmaster were taught as you mentioned Sensei Dan, a combined mixture of the traditional Taekwondo and Hapkido. So definitely those are guys I would not want to mess around with, as they can compete in point fighting tournaments, or in full contact fighting such as Muay Thai/Kickboxing rules, or even in mixed martial arts competitions.
Overall Karate in the Olympics, I believe will bring good and greater exposure to Karate. Then in the end people can go to the individual Karate schools and see for themselves or their children, what suits them best, fitness and competition, or fitness and full contact self defense, Osu!🇲🇽🇦🇺🥋🤟👍✌
We need sports karate for another very compelling reason: A revival or preservation of interest towards karate in general. That being said, there needs to be a distinct separation between the traditional combat oriented form and a sports form. A lot of times young athletes start out with the sports karate but then graduate to the traditional karate down the road. Many that graduate find it suprising that traditional karate is a lot more takedowns and grappling than punches and kicks. As a traditional Goju-ryu practitioner, I'd like to see more people discovering karate and enjoying it in every form that suits them at their point in life.
I feel like we should bring up Bo Jackson at this point @4:20. However, overall I think anytime you take a martial art(aka the art of war) and turn it into a sport, a game, you add rules to it, you either turn it into something else, and while it has its place for entertainment I would think it hurts your purpose of the art.
I love sport karate. The pros are extremely athletic and coordinated. I practice very traditional karate though, and my sensei is definately old school, so I do understand why some folks have a problem with the direction karate is going in many places. That being said, I will be happy to see karate in the Olympics, and I hope that the Kata division does justice to the tradition of karate.
Regarding self defense...you could gain something from any traditional art however, and I hate to say it but, mma is in my opinion the best way to go. Just add some eye gouges or fish hooks for the street and you're foundation would be solid, for a capable person of course. If you disagree, imagine your own traditional instructor in the street against Stipe Miocic. Heck, just go to an amateur mma event and you will see at least a few seriously tough guys who have only trained for 5-6 years. ...For the skeptics just remember, if it wasn't for traditional martial arts, there would be no mma as we see it today...it had to evolve from somewhere, so in a way mma pays homage to traditional styles by its very existence.
Mma is a sport.
I've heard BJJ is heading to be a sport or getting into the Olympics. Karate in the Olympics well it's already there in taekwondo all there doing is opening it up to all styles.
Judo becoming a sport made more pros instead of cons. It promoted judo in a big way. You get the cream of the crop athletes wanting to be the best of the best going against each other. If you want to compete at a high level you must train weights running endurance training sprints and overall athleticism. You can get college scholarship[s because of it. It also fine tunes the martial artist into becoming a force to be reckoned with if the average person wants to start a fight against him/her or their loved ones. People see on the big stage that yes the techniques do work and are really effective.
Cons are obviously the federation overseeing the sport watering it down but thats only if you want to compete at an Olympic level. You can still compete at a high level and still learn the whole art and practice it at your own dojo but if you want to compete in the sport you cant do certain techniques. Doesn't mean you dont know how to do them. Every judoka knows a double leg or single leg or a leg submission. Just because you cant do it in the sport (as of 2012) doesn't mean in a fight we wont use it. Im pretty sure Mayweather knows how to throw an elbow or Buakaw knows how to take someone to the ground or Burroughs knows how to throw a 1 2.
Like with many things in the martial arts, if you want to train in a sport, then train in a sport-focused martial art. If you want fitness, find a martial art school that is more focused on that. If you want self-defense, find a school that pressure tests the moves.
Non-street competition, IMHO, is hampered by the very thing that makes it work - the rules. Some systems don't have competitions because the moves are pretty dangerous if executed correctly. However - how do you know if you've executed the move correctly if you aren't being pressure-tested? In some cases, you may have to accept that there aren't many people who are interested in pressure testing a throat punch, or a knee break. Or an elbow-break. Or, find alternatives. Home depot sells various sticks and the like that you can use to see if you'll actually break anything (a stick is actually a bit harder to break than an elbow or knee...).
I think this topic, though, can be summarized by looking at what you're becoming. If you train for a sport, you're a fighter. If you train in a martial art, you are a martial artist. Master Yu's website has this great quote: "George St. Pierre mentions his philosophy toward the sport: “I’m a martial artist. I don’t train for a fight. I train for myself.” A true martial artist is motivated by his ongoing evolution in the discipline. Fighters, on the other hand, train for their next spotlight in the ring." www.master-sh-yu. com/articles/ the-difference-between-a-martial-artist-and-fighter/ (take out the spaces to make the link work).
There is nothing wrong with choosing a path as a fighter. It is just a different path than being a martial artist. Competing as a sport means you're a fighter. Can you also be a martial artist? Sure, why not? I chose a long time ago to be a martial artist, not a fighter. That said, I have the highest respect for both fighters and other martial artists who obviously have trained a long time and are excellent in what they do.
The problem with sport is that the goal is to win something external apllying some rules. True karate, not sport karate, have other goals, but most instructors ignore that. The are not prepared to teach anything deeper than a simply soft contact sport with choreography.
Karate as a martial art have way more benefits than as a sport.
I think Karate can be both sport and a way of life. As long as you remember the difference, you can enjoy participating in the sport while following the budo way. But if you don't care for sport, that's fine as well. I think that some practitioners over-focus on the sport and lose the important part of the art, like those that practice kata for competition and never dive into the bunkai. If you practice Karate as a life-long activity, your focus will evolve over time.
Though I have nothing against sport/point Karate, though I do see the one main flaw, at least to me is the one tap stop, I use to do point sparring myself during my Kempo karate days, and to me, I felt it wasn't the realistic combat, and when I mean combat I mean not taking a hit (or several of them) that's when I heard about Kyokushin, looked it up, and saw videos of continuous sparring until someone gets hurt to the point when they can't continue, or get knocked out in general, sometime later I found a good Kyokushin school, which they had exactly what I asked for, the realistic combat, and I couldn't be any happier, and when I competed in a tournament last year and my first KO, I was a bit horrified at first (cause that was my first time I knocked someone out) but felt like I really achieved something great, so all I'm really saying is that nothing wrong with karate as a sport, but if you're into it, then at least go for the one continuous kumite!
Thank you very much for this perspective. I view Karate as a way of life from a philosophical and spiritual point of view (my personal reason for appreciating this martial art). However, I have no problem with it being a sport either because it gets people interested in Karate, it helps people make a living from practicing Karate, and after 20s and early 30s, professional competition is harder to do, which may cause those Karate practitioners to explore the self-defence aspect of it.
So I have a bit of a different perspective on this. As an mma fighter and bjj competitor I am automatically distrustful of any art that doesn't engage in competition. Competition forces innovation and adaptation. It also reduces the dogmatic following of a leader based on belt, forcing everyone to prove that they are as good as they say they are. I would bet on a purely competitive art like boxing to beat a purely noncompetitive art like aikido the vast majority of the time, all else equal. Tradition is nice, but in my opinion competition forces improvement.
I also have a question. What's the difference between point fighting in karate vs point fighting in tkd?
I haven't been to many TKD competitions, but I think a lot of them accumulate points too and have different rules about how you can use your hands and kicks that count. Point Karate GENERALLY (at least in my experience) is usually best 3 of 5, and you need to deliver a clean technique to a point zone, which is usually above the belt, full torso, kidneys, and anywhere on the head padding (but not usually the face). Perhaps a Taekwondoin could shine more light on TKD competitions?
I study ITF style TKD which means we have the same forms, ranking system, and practice the sine wave but we are not part of the ITF (though I love the velcro uniform tops so if anyone can send me a line on where to get one without the ITF logo that'd be awesome) Alot of rules depend on who is having the tournament. I've competed in some where head punches were not allowed, some where they were allowed for adults or certain ranks but not for children. Some wouldn't count your point if you hit to soft and some where they wouldnt count your points if you hit to hard. Some were continuous sparring and some you reset everytime a point was scored. But generally points are to the head and torso. No shots to the back or below the belt. In our tournaments if you do a jump kick or jump spinning kick you have to land it in order for it to count. So if you do a jump spinning back kick, get a hit, but fall down the point doesnt count.
I think I struggle with the style differences between karate and tkd as a whole, I imagine the similarities in the competition is largely responsible for that. Doesn't help that karate is also divided into so many sub styles. Love learning about them though.
Personally I'm looking forward to it, even though I probably have the same concerns as a lot of other people who are worried about it becoming watered down. At the same time I also enjoy watching Karate Combat. Full contact competition, but it's still a sport. I think as long as people want to learn traditional Karate there will be schools out there that teach the full systems
Mr. Dan What Is Your Personal Opinion Nippon Kempo. Used To Be Part Of Judo.
The fact that we have to ask the question "does it sick?" says it all
Karate as it is today is very much already a sport. It’s just hasn’t been an Olympic Sport. That being said, much of what Karate once was has been lost because of the sport being added in to it. If it weren’t so, there would be no need to figure out what the katas actually mean, because your instructor would know. He doesn’t know, because the karate he learned is wildly different from the kata he’s told to practice. That being said the founders of Okinawa karate said that karate wasn’t for fighting in competition but rather for the practitioner to be able to defend themselves against ruffians I.e., criminals. So when we talk about criminal violence we have automatically left the world of social violence or sport karate and gone in to a whole new world called a-social violence, where injury is king. Once your system becomes a sport it will have lost much of its effectiveness in this new world of violence. We hear people say, “you will rise to your level of training.”, but it isn’t true you will sink to your lowest level of violence. What you know to be effective, or in the worst case do every thing you can think of that isn’t effective. Competition is a game, everybody wants to compete and go home in one piece. In a real violent situation, your just trying to make sure you get to go home to put the pieces back together. I’ve heard well known mma guys talk about the ineffectiveness of poking a guy in the eye, and how if someone does it to them they are going to do it right back. That’s not what we see when we see instances of a guy getting poked in the eye though. We see a fight that just ended and right now. Sport arts teach the counter, and strategy, what to do against somebody when you have time to “figure them out”. A real fight, you’ve got seconds to do whatever it is your gonna do. Not minutes, not rounds....it’s different. It just is, and the principles, concepts, fight methodologies and mindset is different, there than in a sport. In one your trying to get a point, a knockout, submission.....in the other your trying to do the absolute worst things you can imagine doing to a human being so you can go home to be with your family another night. Those skills, for survival get lost when it becomes all about the sport. That’s just my .02 cents, but it’s what I’ve noticed, time and time again.
I understand why some dislike sports karate. It hurts ones argument, when in the age-old debate over the usefulness of one's martial art. There's always this desire to prove your art as the "best" in self-defense. Truth is, most martial arts excel in a particular aspect of fighting/self-defense and have their weak points too. I don't care anymore. I enjoy the benefits one gets from being part of a local martial art community and the discipline of learning the curriculum. Olympics can't take that away from me. I'm actually excited to see Karate in the Olympics, even if it doesn't reflect the dojo/lifestyle experience. At least it will be interesting or amusing to see.
I think it would be good for karate to be In The Olympics so people dont hate on TMA
Great video Dan! Keep em coming! In for a penny, in for a pound. I love all aspects of martial arts, sport, self defense, and kata. Stand up and ground, multiple attackers and weapons...just hold the chi balls please. 🤪
I'll try but you usually have to ask the chi nicely first.
@@ArtofOneDojo 😁 I think that George dillman has the patent on the chi balls... Or can you call them cheese balls? Either way, hold the cheese... And the chi... Please 🤪
If it involves holding balls...then we're definitely practicing no touch!
I mean hasn't sports karate been a thing for a long time already? The problem with making it an Olympic sport, as i understand it, is the tendency of the communities and practitioners who made any activity popular enough to become a part of the Olympics to loose control of how the Sport is practiced and judged, as well as a top down cultural shift which often alienates those people who spent their lives building up the community. Often the people who end up making the money and with the control over the sport/art end up being people who are not even practitioners of the activity, you must conform or you cant call it the same art. The Olympic Gymnastic comity tried to own the word parkour. (preventing none Olympic styles from using the word but failed for the time being). Snowboarding is a prime example as Skiiing succeeded in controlling the sport of snowboarding.
Love the topic and very insightful response.
But are you getting ripped???
Unfortunately no, not yet lol, but I am working on losing some weight.
@@ArtofOneDojo Lol oh okay, well you look like you're on your way. You look like you're smuggling boulders where your shoulders should be.
I would accept it as a sport if it was full contact like Kickboxing
I think there's room for both styles of training
You are the most lucid person I have ever heard talking about this subject.
Thank you!
I am an activist for female martial artists like myself, and so I am really excited to see martial arts be represented.
Sport karate, sadly, is atrocious. It teaches, encourages and rewards terrible and downright wrong habits - technically as well as philosophically - resulting in a game which is absolutely removed from what the original combat art is. I'm not opposed to combat sports competition per se, but specifically sport karate with its ruleset, technique, execution and judging system is such a dismembered, ugly thing and terrible and frustrating to watch. I'm sorry that I can't put it more mildly. I wouldn't have an issue with it if it was just one of the things you could do in your karate journey, another way to test certain skills in an certain environment. The problem is that sport karate has fully replaced, or erased, the core of the complete art. There is a statement in this video: "One does not negate the other". Yes it does. If you're a sport karateka, chances are, that's all you are. The sad fact is that nearly all sport karate schools don't have any idea or ability when it comes to self defense, bunkai, body conditioning, having the ability to take a hit, or grasping the deep principles of body mechanics or kata. Today we're at a point where if you're not training in a true Okinawan style, you're most probably doing something that's very much watered down and very removed from the full picture. Which is fine if you're into it, but it bugs me that it aims to represent the term "karate" for the outside world. And the worst thing is that 90% of the "normal" people in your run-of-the-mill karate schools don't even aspire to be athletes or go to competitions, but are more or less just passively training stuff that's only useful for the 10% who are doing competitions. That's extremely disingenuous and useless and something that I hold against contemporary dojos - kind of fobbing people off like that and doing them a great disservice while selling them the idea that they're learning a martial art.
@Wills Pram Yes, many mixed martial artist like George St Pierre also utilities kyokushin karate.
I believe Mr. Miyagi would have agreed with you.
@XxSwiftxX deodorant But he holds 3rd Dan black belt in kyokushin.
You basically underscored it: takedowns, grappling, conditioning, kata, bunkai and oyo. However, the times have changed. Young people don't want to work long hard hours to push their bodies to be the iron vests. The art of karate will die if we don't retain and promote karate in two forms: combat and sports. Let the young ones start with sports and then discover the tip of the iceberg called traditional karate. Those curious enough will want to go on the journey of further discovery. Open mind and open heart will bring enough fish to the pond.
Well karate is being use in MMA
I think its fine as a sport only problem with karate is when its practicioners can't control their temper so really its a phycological issue which is why for many of us the reason why we took karate either to learn to control ours or protect ourselves from those who can't and for a long time it wasn't something that we needed to worry about till mma became more widely known cause now fighters are better but still lack self control so they're more dangerous now I was just reviewing Joe Lewis and Bill Wallace techniques last night I've read his book and like his style then Joe his maneuver how he fakes reminds me of my sifu before he trained kung fu he was an amateur kick boxer
Coming from a traditional karate background the mistakes that karate teachers and students could make is that they practice or teach karate as purely sports. As a practitioner we have to have a link with our roots and know there are no rules in the street so the survival mentality and physical toughness to inflict pain and receive pain must be there. From what I see personally is that many japanese karate minus those of Kyoukoshin and its offshoots tend to focus more in the sport side and neglecting the body hardening so one is prepared to receive an attack at full speed and force yet still go on and fight. I see this as a way to cater to younger generation to enter the art yet too much of it makes the art weak and severed from its roots.
Competitions are good for testing your skill but when the focus becomes on sport, and moneymaking then you lose the arts integrity. I think we need to focus more on bunkai (applications), and the philosophy that combined with hard training builds better character and better people. Unfortunately sport is becoming too dominant however, that being said every black belt should at least aim to enter a big competition to test themselves at that level. My advice is finding the moderation of the sport aspect so it doesn't take away from the traditions too much.
Judo was a sport created by a Phys Ed teacher at its creation and it is a great self defense. It is solely down to the school... I was a part of a self defense school that did very well at tournaments because we had the full art and limited ourselves to the rules of the given tournament.
It only sucks if it can't work in real life combat.
Take the best from both worlds and combine it.
I hate what the Sanbomne Sport Karate Kumite. Its ruined the art. Hence why other martial Artists call it the weakest style.
Kyokushin, Ashihara, Enshin and Kudo are at least close to reality.
The only other way is the Karate Combat rules.
I think this is both good and bad!
Good because it will attract more people into it and they will learn some basics.
Just like with sport Wushu!
It can be bad because it could dilute the art for some people.
But I think the good out weighs the bad!
Daniel san Karate for Defense only. Daniel san in Okinawa belt mean no need rope to hold up pants. Rule number one Karate for defense only. Rule number two first learn rule number one.
I think there should be two divisions, Do, and Jitsu.........Jitsu is the Karate of Okinawa(Traditional) Do is the version that the Japanese do....having done both, I'm in favor of real Karate (Okinawan.........it should have Karate, Kobudo, Tuide)
Jesse Enkamp did a video about Karate is actually a Filipino Martial Art.
Sport
I think games (soccer etc.)
Self defense
Is hard to train for. (For a specific moment in life.)
A broad subject.
Rodney Dangerfield
Real life attitude.
I think it’s a great idea! Get Karate back out into the limelight. Karate is for self defense. Just because a sport has rules doesn’t mean you can’t teach elbows, groin kicks, and eye gouges. Learn it all. If you like competing, then compete. I like the fighting aspect of Karate. Sparring is one of the best parts for me. I learn the techniques and try them out sparring. What is wrong with competitive sparring. People are starting to sound like other martial arts to remain nameless that won’t spar because they’re too good for it. Then they get their butts kicked whenever they have to use it in real life. That said, if you were just learning it because you like the movements of Kata then that is fine too. But don’t denigrate the people who like to fight with honor.
As long as there is a clear difference between the sport and art that practioners are aware of. As long as they are separate and the integrity of the art is not compromised it is fine in my book
I agree 100%
Instructors have bills to pay like everyone else. If you make this dependent on winning medals, then that is what they will concentrate on. Personally, if I wanted to participate in sports then I could play football or tennis or whatever. I think the Olympics is toxic to those aspects of martial arts that make them different. It should be about self-improvement not winning races.
I respect that point of view, but I don't wrong with at least competing. Competition, if done respectfully, can be a very healthy and productive thing, and I do believe in a lot of sparring if you're studying martial arts for self-defense. Olympics can be one thing, but there are other Karate tournaments out there with different options.
@@ArtofOneDojo Yes, I agree.
Karate is already a sport. I think that karate should be a "bigger" sport than it is today.
Which karate style is in the Olympics
Any Karate style that is in the WKF pretty much!
Olympic Karate is going to be different because it involves kicking, punching, sweeps and take downs. I think it will be more exciting than watching TKD practitioners who jump up and down and wait for a head kick. The point of TKD has always been sport and flashy.
I have an idea as to which dial mr. Miyagi actually hot and the Karate Kid original movies and in the Cobra Kai series on Netflix. Goju-ryu is close but Shito-ryu, see Jesse Enkamp's latest video as to see why. It might blow your mind master Dan. Osu thank you for your time.
I actually commented on Jesse's video and both his and my theory can co-exist. Goju Ryu was founded in 1930 by Chojun Miyagi and Mr. Miyagi (in the movies and show his name is Nariyoshi Miaygi) was named after Chojun Miyagi. Mr. Miyagi was born in 1925 according to the headstone in Cobra Kai, which means he was 5 years old when Chojun Miyagi formally founded Goju Ryu. So it stands very much to reason that Jesse Sensei could be absolutely correct about the background but that the Miyagi family picked up Goju Ryu when it was established. Perhaps they're even supposed to be related? In Karate Kid Part 2, Chozen, student of Sato (and also a Miyagi Do student), wears a Gojy Ryu patch.
I think that both of our theories can exist together.
@@ArtofOneDojo completely agree, the throeies could line up and we could learn more about it in season 3.
The original purpose of Karate was for self defense and Okinawan Karate holds true to this unlike it's Japanese counterpart which focuses on character development and sports through competition.
Not that there's a problem with character development and sport by the way.
Bruce Lee once said that he hates martial arts in sports because there are rules, in a real fight, there is none, for me as a sport, its just a waste of time .
So....do you go out in the street and practice techniques on bad guys? :D I'm just joking, but for self defense to work there definitely needs to be a lot of sparring and resistance training. And that usually has rules too. Plus Bruce maybe said that, but he still spent a good amount of time frequenting tournament circuits, especially during his time as Ed Parker's friend.
I wouldn't mind it being a sport more akin to MMA. But knowing it's going to be point sparring, I'm not very enthusiastic. Because if that's the norm, then it creates the desire for point sparring heavy schools... Point sparring has very limited use in self defense.
I don't want it to go the route of modern TKD... no offense to anyone
The olympics will likely be point fighting, but at least there are other tournaments that allow full contact or continuous. There is an option for everyone :)
I don't have problems with Karate as a sport. I actually don't know what is to live in a World that Karate isn't a sport. Let's be honest, who here is old enough to have lived back in the days where sport-karate didn't even existed? lol I didn't signed in Karate because of sport ( i did for the martial arts, self defense and the movies) But, i know that if Karate wasn't promoted as a sport and a way of life..we wouldn't have Karate in my country. Sport is the main reason why Karate was able to spread all over the World,..then you had personal growth, self defense, etc.
Now, why Boxing is still regarded as a effective fighting system despite been a sport? because they have a full contact, continous sparring based competition system.
@ 3:13. Just cause you can swing a tennis racket at someone, doesn't make tennis good for self defense. And I would put sport Karate and tennis in the same category.
Love Shotokan, they should go back to old school kumite. Bare 👊. If your going to play tag, you might as well have fun.
Anyone who has ever tried at least semi-contact sparring in traditional karate understands that sport karate is nonsense and a mockery of the essence of karate.
No. Look what it did to TKD for the WTF
I totally understand your sentiment and I agree for the most part. However, TKD embracing the sport is part of what has kept it alive. Look at styles that dont usually embrace the sport, such as Uechi Ryu Karate, and you will see that it is getting harder to find a school that teaches that system. Incorporating the sport can allow the art to spread to a wider demographic and help keep the art alive. Even in the context of TKD, traditionalists still exist and dont teach the sport but rather a martial art focused on real combat and if not for the sport keeping TKD alive they might not have a school to teach in anymore. Its not uncommon for martial athletes past their prime to then go and try to learn it from the traditional and practical point of view.
I was referring more toward the Olympic TKD. The almost zero use of hands and some of the flippy kicks that are used to get a point but not something that would be used in real life. I study TKD but it's the ITF style. I think if the rules were the same for Olympic TKD as they are at ITF tournaments (punches to the head for example) I'd be more for it. I think it was last year at the world championships that a woman from Britain won against China just by pushing her out of the ring.
Once a martial art cannot be used in a fight then it - literally - is no longer a martial art. Let's not beat around the bush here. The word "martial" literally means "pertaining to war." The core function of any martial art is for fighting. Once you remove that core then, by the very definition of the word and concept, it is no longer a martial art.
You can make it into a SPORT, that's fine... but it's no longer a martial art. And there's nothing wrong with doing sports per se, but the issue is that if you teach a sport and make the claim that you are teaching self defence, then you are giving people DANGEROUS false confidence. You are much better off just being honest and up front and just *remove* the words "self defence" from your marketing and just admit that you're teaching a sport. There's nothing wrong with that. Soccer and tennis don't promise self defence, and they are excellent sports. If you want to be a sport then own it. Similarly if you want your martial art to just be a performance art then own that too.
The problem is that I very RARELY ever see a non-fighting based martial arts school openly admit that they don't teach self defence. Very, very rarely. They almost always claim that they do teach self-defence when they obviously do not. And for people who don't know the difference, this can be very dangerous if they ever attempt to use these ineffectual skills to try and defend themselves in a real assault situation. Not cool.
For more discussions on the practical applications of all martial arts, consider joining the Functional Martial Arts discussion group on Facebook. Not-for-profit and all styles welcome.
facebook.com/groups/FunctionalMartialArts
Dont mind Karate being a sport but make it full contact and any methods permitted aside from joint locks etc. Point sparring in competition is bullshit imo.
I like that multiple options are offered. I too prefer continuous endurance sparring, but point matches do have some merit, but only in addition to, never to replace other sparring. But the nice thing is, you have full contact Karate fights (Combat Karate and Kyokushin tournaments), you have point matches, and you have continuous medium contact that racks up points (some Kenpo 5.0 tournaments) so there is a flavor available for everyone's liking.
@@ArtofOneDojo thanks for responding. Yeah i see your point. I just think the Olympics is meant to be the top level and it should be full contact but i dont mind some of the scenarios you presented. Also thanks for the great content and for introducing me to kyokushin karate. Ive found a dojo near me and doing to start training the style.
@@andrewtaylor6795 Oh that's fantastic! I would love to hear what you think once you start it. I'm glad you found it and are going to give it a try!
@@ArtofOneDojo will do. I suspect painful and challenging is how it will go lol
@@andrewtaylor6795 That's how all the best ones are!
The reason why I don’t like sport karate is that it builds really bad habits. Just like WT Taekwondo (it’s no longer wtf for two years). It prevents the artists from using proper power when it is needed.
Fair point, but then there are other Karate competitions that offer the chance to use that power. Kyokushin is full contact, and you also have Combat Karate. And of course throw in some grappling and MMA is another option. There are plenty of options for whatever flavor of competition a person might want.
Art of One Dojo but the one in the olympics, shotokan, does not add power or practicality. Now saying it is useless at all, just by itself it is useless in that it develops bad habits. Take fencing and HEMA, the way a fencer sword fights works in sport due to the limited, dumb, rule set and gets you killed along with your opponent. In HEMA, the rules allow you to have creativity in the engagement of your opponent. Now combine that with the same martial art but with the different styles. It’s advantages and disadvantages. You’ll notice the disadvantage that all sports based martial arts have compared to their counter parts.
If they keep the way it is and don’t change any rules then it be interesting unlike what tkd wtf they kept changing the rules and now Olympic tkd is not the same any more no more power no roundhouses just tip tap and hug :( I hope karate won’t become like that
I think karate is already there to be an Olympic sport. The only thing it’ll do is bring more attention to karate. I don’t think karate is very good to transfer into a real fight anyway. I did Shotokan for years. Got to 1st Dan and I can say it’s not suitable for the pavement. But I don’t see anything wrong with it been a sport. Having said that a lot of the MMA guys talking about this and that won’t work in the street. In truth MMA and boxing etc. Just put you in good stead for a real fight. At the end of the day. Unless your out there causing trouble a real fight isn’t going to happen on your terms. It’ll be drunk or coked up Mick with his 20 brothers and the 21st cousin of his grandmother’s cat to come fight you. In the ring it’s normally equal weight one on one with rules.