Okinawan Karate Sensei Talks About "Sport Karate"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
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I think that we need to create a HARD distinction between sports karate and combat karate (okinawan/traditional), because there's too many people learning unfinished or incomplete techniques and being told they will always work in a real situation, but fact is that if you dont learn how to apply techniques in a real fight (aka if you dont learn how to FIGHT), you're in for a world of hurt.
There is a great danger in lack of clarity of purpose.
I have to agree.
I personally think it's really dumb that they created a different style for sport ... and then have that overtake the original combat art.. For example, with Kung Fu you have traditional Kung Fu styles whether it be Wing Chun, Northern Shaolin, Southern, animal styles, etc. and then you have contemporary wushu which is the sport style.. And both are taught.. both are well known the differences and the similarities.. but it seems with every art form even BJJ the sport version of it seems to have taken over and you have all these associations that govern the sports aspects and it seems difficult to find schools that teach the combat version. With BJJ is different because the originating family is still alive and you have them doing Gracie University for ex. and keeping the self-defense version alive. But with other arts it can be very hard to find a dojo that will do the self-defense one. Maybe I'm wrong.
Also I may not have been clear. The reason I think it's dumb is because you can easily have tournaments and sport competition using the self-defense version of the art.
I really want to warn those 40 years old and up, that your techniques learned now would have to be slightly different than what you learned years past. Kicking high might look cool, but don't expect the bad guy just to sit there and give your best shot. If a street thug has already smacked the living hemoglobin out of a martial artist before, it might empower him or her to try picking on an unsuspecting target to see if they'll try the same Wop Fooey crap on them and they'd beat whomever is thier victim likthey did the last time.
I disagree that keeping karate the same needs to be a hard and fast rule but we need to make sure that each up and coming generation understands the tradition before modifying it. We sometimes forget that the karate we receive today has been modified multiple times throughout the generations - look at the original kung fu vs the Okinawan forms vs the Japanese forms, etc. Not to mention that many techniques like hook kicks and others weren’t in karate originally either. As I understand it the old Ryukyu masters were highly pragmatic and had no problem changing or evolving the art. That said the foundation must always be mastered and understood before doing so.
I have something to say , You talked about Modifying which is important i agree but current sports karate has been modified to such extent that in a kumite match you will see players only doing mawashi giri and ura mawashi giri and ofcourse they are not to be blamed because that's how they will get points but the thing is what about the other kicks or punches which are not allowed in the sports karate right now , it is basically killing the foundation of karate and making it a tag game
@@harshitdas2040 competition is a sport that utilizes karate. Not karate in its entirety
I agree I think it shows ignorance of how arts degrade and become stale to insist on purity. The truth is there is no such thing anyway, this guys master did it differently from him and his students will do it differently again, there is no 100% form of any style that can be exactly passed on , so by the very definition of the process, the Okinawan master is Objectively inaccurate.
I left Shaolin Kempo Karate 35 plus years ago, because I was trying to train as a powerlifter and pulled my left shoulder ligament. If you can make traditional karate work in the streets, then more power to you, and your style. But I have been reading and doing my own research and I found out it's the person not the style that wins the fight. Boxers traditionally have been able to take hard shots from other wannabes, but not everyone can get a black belt, or open a karate/kung Fu school and make a living out of it, and I am sure not everyone can take a punch hard enough to make them wanna give in. I'm more interested in what can a non belt karateka use right off to bat when the haven't made it to yellow belt or higher, and successfully defend themselves after the first lesson. I'm 68 years old and my techniques won't get me a belt promotion, but I could fight someone off pretty good by fighting dirty. Brawls are not choreographed and thugs have a higher pain threshold than most karate people do, so it's up to the student to find out what works best for them.
Its not the person that wins the fight. Its his training
Must be something about our generation 😂.
I agree with most of what you say, albeit I do believe I successfully taught traditional karate and successfully produced good street fighters because I trained for the real world.
All the training in the world will not prepare you for a natural street fighter, you may be prepared physically but not mentally.
The real difference comes down to what are you prepared to do, and how far are you willing to take a fight. On the street, you come across people who are prepared to break bones, go out of their way to destroy you. They are not happy with just winning. If you are not capable of fighting and inflicting the same level of damage then the chances are you will lose.
I have witnessed many high ranks, the highest being a 7th dan, get destroyed on the street. They were mentally just not capable of inflcting the same damage as their opponent was willing to inflict.
Years ago I asked a taekwondo instructor what he thought about Olympic Taekwondo his answer was it was good for getting more people interested but it was taekwon with out the do with out the way
I believe as you do. Traditional for self defense, flashiness and evolution for sport karate. Never mix the two and promote the two are separate distinct disciplines
Karate must stay simple and traditional in logic and base. but evolve as well when it comes to fighting for your life. Hand to hand is good to learn but nowadays we must learn to deal with weapons of opposition that are available as well. 💕 You can be the best fighter in the world and still get shot by someone. 👍
The best fight you can ever have is one you didn't 🙂
From what I have seen, many times those who do sport karate, tkd, etc.. They think that it translates to real world situations. I'm an Executive Protection professional. I've worked with people who couldn't separate sport and reality.. IF that distinction is made... There is no issue... If not, that's when people become harmed unfortunately. Clear separation of sport and reality is definitely something I believe should be talked about more. I'm loving your videos!
I want to return to karate because I like the philosophy. It means the world to me. Flashy strikes. Exceptional fighting style. Arigato, Yusuke sensei!
I believe you are correct Sensei when you said it depends on your motivation. I personally think based on my personal preference that traditional is the way to go. It creates the foundation, which is the rich history of understanding where the karate and kobudo came from. I don’t believe you can have sport karate without some traditional karate.
I think there can be room for both. Sport karate has its place as a fitness and chess like way of outthinking a person on a level playing field. Street defence and real life are a million miles away from sport karate. The only similarity is training the flinch/ reaction response. The only true way to use real life karate is to pressure test over and over again to get the fight or flight mechanisms working.
I train Shito ryu and Shukokai based Shito ryu. Very similar but in the Shukokai classes we do street attacks and more throws and ground work. Pressure testing "real life" scenarios is the only way i.e. karate against a wannabe boxer or wrestler.
False. For example in karate combat the best fighters are even sport karate fighters. Sport karate can be very effective in street fights.
I think it depends on your long term goal, for instance longevity is mine, my Karate is completely different from when i began in the 70’s as a kid, also i have grown and changed and feel i have some ownership of my expression of Karate, its not very pretty to watch or impressive, but my focus is on how i feel as opposed to how i might look to others, i think there’s room for everyone’s reasons for training the spectrum is broad, i have so much to practice i dont give energy to bagging other peoples path.
I think he's correct. For commercialization purposes things must be added to a style but the core features and practices should remain the same. Even in this series, Yusuke, a black belt, had difficulty performing the basic movements of their karate and the teachers noted this was because the karate he learned has attention on things that look good and aren't necessarily the most efficient. Alot of things were lost in karate when the Japanese government nationalized it and in my mind, makes it a different practice than traditional karate even if the names and outer movements are the same or similar.
I train in ashihara karate so I do think modernization is good, but there is plenty of good stuff from the old style that can make your karate better as long as you pressure test it in sparring in various ways.
We can all learn from each other to make karate it self better. Osu
it depends on what the change is. If the change helps to support the original purpose of defense, then it is a good one. Not many karate schools do bunkai based sparring (even though there is historical evidence for it).
In a lot of karate classes I see we don't use modern gear like mma gloves and make little or no contact. Without touch sparring, it's too hard to know if a blow would have landed. Also, I know Yusuke mentioned he broke his finger in the last video (I've fractured a finger too) though I don't know if he wore gloves.
I used to stick with traditional principles within respective martial arts systems. But, looking back, I think that change is as natural as evolution. The changes are not necessarily dramatic, but only the present can review the past and perhaps modify the future
I see this in a very differentiated way - on the one hand, it is important to distinguish between self-defense and competitive karate. One thing is clear: most of the top sports karatekas are extremely well trained classical karatekas - whether old or new school - Rafael Aghayev, Aexander Biamonti, junior lefevre, Massao Kagawa, Lyoto Machida,Christophe Pinna, Davide BENETELLO, Jasem Modamivishkaei, José Manuel Egea, YANN BAILLON, Wayne Otto, Pat Mc Kay... they all have or had a lot of steam in their fists and were extremely fast - even on the street it is an advantage if you have any fighting experience at all - timing, feints, counterattacks, footwork are extremely important too in street fighting - in addition, the sports karatika are also able to adapt to a different situation extremely quickly - there are endless examples where it has been shown that rock-solid education and training is the decisive factor - in addition, it is a question of FIGHTING WEIGHT = Heavy fighters have a huge advantage in all martial arts that involve full contact - and this also applies to street fighting - and there are also sport karatekas who have taker qualities and street fighters who have none! Wladimir Klitschko also had some bad luck with his "taking" qualities - on the other hand, he would NEVER have been beaten by a 60kg street fighter ;-) :-)
The funniest thing about this is that both of you practice styles were changes, divergences and adaptations of previous styles and teachers. In this sensei's case his Karate looks a bit different than most of the Shorin Ryu type styles and even seems to have incorporated methods from Tai Chi. Shotokan of course is a combination of two different styles, then heavily modified by Funakoshi's son Gigo, then even more heavily modified by the first generation students. It actually seems if you put your heart and soul into Karate, it's impossible to not change it.
Sensei my goal with karate is to be a better person, put it simple. I have a blue belt in shito ryu Karate and The teaching of my sensei and the great master Negishi needs to be preserve.
Traditional karate 💯
Sport karate preserve tradition and it’s very effective everywhere. We check it by watching mma or karate combat. Ignorant is the person unable to understand it.
There are several different questions you asked. Sport Karate and Traditional are obviously different animals. A Karate friend of mine said to me once, “Without change there is no improvement!” Long before this Sensei’s Sensei, Karate Masters in Okinawa changed Karate. So the tradition is to study, learn and change. Master Funikoshi trained with two different Masters in Okinawa. In addition, you need ultimately find what works best for you as an individual. Here in the US, Mr. Ohshima told his students that they didn’t have to fight like him. At the same time, he tried to pass on exactly, what he learned from Master Funikoshi. In my own practice, I tried to emphasize techniques present in the Katas that no one does in Kumite, thinking that they HAD to be important because they occur in many Kata. In addition, I have adapted my practice and techniques to my advancing age. In some Katas my interpretation has change based on repetition and REinterpretation.
Keep the mentality, change the tech.
We have safety equipment now that we didn't before. Use it to pressure test. We have bags and other practice striking surfaces that we didn't before. Use them to clean up your form.
The only way you can go is up, even if you're hellbent on maintaining tradition.
I my self agree that traditional karate preserves the self defense wazas more than the modern one.
Thanks for this
This might be a different way of viewing this, but I look at it the same way OGs talk about bboying. What I mean is we are taught the basics/foundations to preserve the traditions that were taught to them, then we are task with finding ways to conform the foundations to ourselves, aka, flip it and make it our own. So regardless of whether you're in a street fight/defending yourself or competing, you are preserving the art while progressing it to a new era.
I don't have too much intelligent to say, other than: If there are rules, it's a sport. Self-defense has no rules, because the attacker has no rules. Techniques to maim, cripple, or kill (if necessary) are actually the original "purpose" of martial arts, and cannot be used in any dojo or MMA cage
Peace. No matter what you learn be it martial arts, science, math, etc.. it all will be adapted based on the situation. I think the issue is one of understanding what we already have verses changing or throwing out traditions.
I say master the traditional and make adjustments to suit your own fighting style because everyone has the preferred style of fighting. I don't see why you shouldn't change for the better but if it ain't broke don't change it.
I have enjoyed your videos.
You always find something good to say even when you disagree with overall idea of the content.
And your tutorial videos are "easy to catch" to this not native english speaker and a noob on Karate.
I did some TKD at My younger days and now at 54 i wanted to return to martial arts.
After 30 years brake karate seemed like good choice since this sore and stiff body is not able to return to those TKD "airacrobatics" 😃
Keep up the good work 👍💪
It really depends on the style of karate you practice! But a karateka should begin with Tradition and understand it’s lineage. Look at Machida Karate it came from tradition but is now linked to a more all around UFC/MMA style for actual fighting situations with Muay Thai and Jujitsu incorporated into the roots of Karate.
Muay Thai?? What are u saying?!?😂😂😂
I meant to say lyota machida if you look on Wikipedia…… his main style is Shotokan Karate but he also trained in Muay Thai for fighting in the world of MMA
@@karateinjapan this is false it’s not written😂 he is the perfect representation of karate. In addition he is one of the best competitor into JKA. In mma he has always used karate style, no Muay Thai.
Many people misunderstand the words; 'Tradition' and "Traditional". Many associate those words to mean 'old' or 'outdated'. This is far from the truth. Traditional is actually referring to something time tested. Something works because it has been proven to work over and over. Of course a student's intent comes into play, as well as the original purpose of the art. The original purpose of karate was self-protection. It was the 'krav-maga' of it's time. It was a complete system that dealt with grabs, chokes, holds, and ground work, as well as striking. This came about because it was a mixed martial art; combining styles of Southern Chinese Kung Fu (mainly various crane styles) with Okinawan arts of tuite (joint locks) and tegume (grappling). So to get the most out of karate it would be best to follow it's original purpose and intent. With that said, yes a student can do sport karate if that is their intent and purpose. What I see that falls short here is that you have sport karate styles attempting to repurpose kata and techniques for the ring. This results in something less effective which results in something rarely used. So many students will misunderstand how something is supposed to be truly used. In the end the student will have to figure out for themselves what is good for the ring, out of the material being taught. I would rather see a karate style created from the ground up with just sport in mind. With kata created and preserving techniques used only in sport. So having an art/style created for this very purpose for students who want to pursue that very goal. Training will make a lot more sense. Kata and bunkai will fit within the confines of ring fighting. Thus students will not only learn faster, they will be more engaged in training. But Okinawan Karate was created for self-protection. It should not be changed, as it can already adapt. Students of self-protection will get the most out of such an art.
This is an example on how traditional kata teaches self protection in close range as intended. Many of these movements and techniques have no use in sport. Which I suggest a creation of a sport style from the ground up....
Practical Kata Bunkai: Tekki / Naihanchi Sandan - th-cam.com/video/r_EUcSqdeh0/w-d-xo.html
I think there is a limit to how much change is tolerable, karate movements should be karate movements.
I go to a club with a combination of shokotan and goju ryu. Long and powerful blended with short and brutal, traditional mixed with dirty street fight. I love the mix, kata is amazing, teachers are amazing. But I hate that 99% is "this is how to pass a grading" and "this works well in tournament" and only 1% "this is self defence"
I joined for fitness, defence and just something to do. Forget the point scoring, I dont care. Give me the grapples, damaging strikes, multiple opponents, the untrained punch that you get from a drunk or inexperienced person. That's whst I wanna practice
Sport, competition, showmanship, these are good marketing tools to attract young men and women. Why learn a skill you hopefully never use? For business owners, dojo owners, these are some of the things they need to retain their clientele.
It is up to those dojo owners to teach the difference between showmanship and practical self defense.
BBJ is rather new and the gracie are having to deal with the same situation, preservation of the original art.
Traditional (Dento) Karate based on Kata and Bunkai if we talk about Okinawan styles. If we are talking for Sports karate based on performance and psychology. And lastly Orthodox (Seito) Karate which is for "self defense" based on Kumite/Kihon/Bunkai and psychology. The philosophy of Funakoshi Gichin lies in Orthodox (Seito) mentality, which is self improvement. Make yourself useful. Keep your Kata sharp or sloppy it doesn't matter. Because at the end of the day Karate Do is the same.
I would say that change is inevitable. Karate from 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago, is already not exactly the same karate as it is today. New sub-styles have been created continuously, because the master's student had a new approach of his master's style. Even our equipment, like the gi's have evolved, when compared to 100 years ago. You may want to preserve of rediscover the original forms, but it will never be the 100% exact same form of karate.
Culturally his point makes sense, but fro a Combat POV, thats how an Art gets stale, falls out of effectiveness, it HAS to change over time, or it gets forgotten
Martial arts by definition are an art.
Any art requires creativity.
Any artist needs to transcend the limits of the art through individual creativity to create their own personal achievement.
So, change is absolute.
Nonetheless, sport karate isn’t an art and has only to conform to regulations.
Anyone who considers themselves a martial artist, not a X practitioner, but an artist, needs to individualize their training.
If you’re a karate practitioner and not an artist then by all means limit yourself to tradition.
So basically there are three kinds.
Athlete (combat sport)
Practitioner (lineage inheritor)
Artist (self-cultivator)
i HAVE to change the curiculum as im disabled and in a wheelchair and my sensei has never taught someone with a disability let alone one like mine
It evolves anyway. That's just the nature of things. The tradition is your foundations. Some people say "know the rules before you break them." Well, those are the "rules." The danger happens when you break the rules without knowing/practicing them properly. If you don't, it doesn't just become something else. It weakens the art of it. It's the responsibility of teachers to know the traditions and how to break them down into smaller pieces for their students to do it well. Build an understanding of your foundations and keep breaking them down forever. Evolution comes from different perspectices, applications, bodies, experimentation but the source is the same. The deepest respect comes from high levels of executing your foundations.
I understand his point you don't want to lose anything or do the new thing. Perhaps it depends on whether or not you are truly a master or not. At the highest level systems don't exist only the essentials. Maybe I am out of line for I lack that level of knowledge, skill and expertise. I apologize.
Imo, the difference is the sport karate relies primarily on speed, strength and timing, whereas traditional karate does not. ie. a weaker slower person possessed with a mastery of traditional karate (not sport) should have a good chance of defeating a stronger opponent who is faster and stronger than him or herself in a real no holds bar fight. Traditional karate depends on defeating the opponent attacking the most vulnerable areas where as sport karate primarily attacks the strong areas that are easier to defend. That being said, in the old days in Okinawa, karate-ka had many times to practice in real fights. Today that is not so. So timing and mental fighting attitude are hard to develop in traditional karate today. Sport karate helps develop timing and mental fighting attitude in today's modern world.
"Revolution is the principle of nature"
Everything in this nature has to evolve and re-evolve. So we should not get attached to something or someone.
This is my opinion
👍
To me Karate has always been about combat, defending yourself, family and the weak. The benefits transfer through to all aspects of life giving you confidense to stand up for what you believe in.
A few years ago i was told by my style, that i had been involved with for over 40 years, that us old school practitioners did not know karate and did not know how to train.
This young generation has lost so much knowledge and expertise by ignoring tradition.
Given that, i will also say there is good and bad traditions, comes down to the capabilities of the instructor passing down the knowledge and reasons for the traditional ways.
In sport karate there is even tradition. We are talking about punches, kicks and throwing techniques, not fantasy.
I notice how many students only train to earn another belt, instead of actually wanting to understand the style and techniques.
The whole belt status thing is what ruins traditional martial arts.
This is the problem of traditional martial art ,they don’t want to change nothing…in the opposite modern and real fighting art like MMA or military close combat evolve and pick up in every traditional art the best technical move…
Hey Yusuke if you can I would love to see collaborations with Japanese TH-camrs like Juria, Yasuhiro Kido, Shirakawa Ryuji, Katsunori Kikuno (not a TH-camr but has appeared on many channels), etc
As a martial arts practitioner of traditional styles I have witnessed the rapid decline in all styles. O fear that in the not too distant future all martial arts outside the very secluded schools will be nothing more than a soft sport with no spirit or morals and definitely no honor. Look back 20 to 25 years and see the rapid decline of great Taekwondo practitioners when they first brought it in
to the Olympics there was fierce and respectful combat, now it is two people bouncing on the spring assisted floor. MMA is just a sport with huge media not a martial art, Sport Karate will surely follow. So Sad.
Only a person who has attained a certain level of knowledge and wisdom does understand and agree with this.
Just saw this clip and like to comment on it. I take two famous people as example, Bruce Lee and Steven Seagal. As much Steven is hated today in the USA, he saw the real Karate in Okinawa but also the Sport Karate in the USA. And Bruce only saw the Sport Karate in the USA but never the real Karate from Okinawa.
Fact is both men, Seagal and Lee, were not really impressed by Sport Karate. Since Lee never was in Okinawa and never met a real Karate Sensei from there, i dont see him as the right person to judge it. But fact is when Bruce ever spoke about Karate, it was mostly negative. I mean with respect yes, but not like it was good or great.
When Seagal came back from Japan in the early 80s, he saw the Pont Karate Champions Chuck Norris, Bob Wall etc., and he basically stated their Karate isnt real Karate.
The Kenpo Karate founder Ed Parker sr. always stated: "If you are unable to beat someone down in 5-10 seconds, you are doing something horribly wrong."
Of course this statement by Seagal wasnt popular in the US, and Wall and many others went after him, it was the story of the dirty dozend.
But these Sport Karate matches are build to go on for many minutes.
Americans are obsessed with competition, trophys and titles. Its in their nature. And you can even see it today in Cobra Kai.
As the fans of CK know, this international Sekai Taikai Karate tournament will take place soon. And most fans want Robert "Robby" Keene to win it, simply becuase he didnt win a tournament yet and was twice the runner up.
My humble opinion: Robby was to this day in CK the only 1-1 student of Daniel. So he is in direct lineage to Mr Miyagi. Miyagi never liked tournaments, he always stated Karate should be for defend yourself, not trophys or points in a tournament.
So contrary to most fans, i have a gut feeling Robby will never win a tournament, but he will get involved into a life and death encounter later, and uses Karate like "his" Grandmaster Miyagi wanted it.
It would make sense.
How can anything get better if it never changes?
Unfortunately modern sport karate has produced what called kata player or kumite player. We had a conversation me and a karate coutch who's also friend of mine talking about his students and mentioned that you either be kata player only or kumite player only. unfortunately you see lots of uncomlete karate or better say different sport or activity. Also lots misinterpreted what traditional karate is...they are missing tge link between kihon kata kumite.
You should keep the traditional combat style of martial Arts, sports is ok, but in today's ever increasing violent world traditional is best.
Well, if the water had been carried exactly the same without change, wouldn't we all be practicing Kung Fu instead? I understand the value of preserving traditions, but evolution is also the genesis of many things that nowadays we consider tradition. As with many things, balance is key I suppose.
I am quite sad that here in north America, a lot of black belts never fought for real once. You can pass you Blackbelt exam without touching your opponent, and you have 5 rounds to do. So you have a black belt and you faked fighting for 10 minutes. The day you need to use your Karate you will not be able to defend yourself.
*My opinion:* If it's not broken, don't fix it.
You mean, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
The culture should remain but when competing/self defense you should adapt the martial art to what works
Saying this with WKF premier league in Okinawa and the Okinawatraditional karate world championship posters back...
It's critical that the WHY of everything is passed on correctly . There is so much in every traditional style that is just mimic'd without the knowledge behind it . And within one or 2 generations the effectiveness is lost . A movement in a kata or waza will be dismissed as merely show because the interpretation is completely wrong and in turn the art gets deemed outdated or just a display . These arts didn't survive hundreds of years because they didn't work. Fighting comes down to physics and biology , and neither of those things have changed .
As far as I know… roundhouse kicks aren’t in any Shotokan kata, yet we practice them. Same with hook kicks.
Fighting styles change and adapt.
Look at plenty of videos of MMA practitioners destroying masters of various martial arts.
We can all learn from each other.
New karate is not serious karate its touch for points anyone can do it now days not like before where you train to be the strongest and skilled its just touch and scream and you have points old karate students where strong as iron
Dbwgcs!
Karate must change. If it doesn't, it will not survive. Humanity evolves culturally and we should bring the best things with us, and modify or discard the rest. Saying that Karate must not change would be saying that Karate was always perfect in every way which is just silly.
I will fight with you!
Wrong attitude!!