Is Boxing a Martial Art? | ART OF ONE DOJO
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- Do you consider boxing a martial art, or a contemporary sport? We break down the two different perspectives of this debate and attempt to identify Boxing's place in combat history and competition.
Is Boxing a Martial Art?
See Also: MMA vs Traditional Martial Arts
• MMA vs TMA: Traditiona...
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I vote "yes": boxing is a form of martial art.
I second that
Boxing (also a universal term of empty hand combat) too me is a *Artless Martial Art* with no forms or set patterns. Methodology consist of using every part of your body as a weapon not just your hand's. And adapting to the outcome and modifying your tools to suit the situation. Because of sport? Boxing became a total art form that develop its own identity as a way of complete combat.
@@Dragonflyjones67 Great point. I've read that styles of kung fu are generically referred to as Chinese boxing by Westerners.
@Vinsu Karma martial art only dosent mean to have a fancy Gi and do kata all the time, boxing teaches discipline and jsnt that what every martial arts is supposed to do? and boxing is one the oldest martial arts ever
Of course it is. Does a martial art have to be Asian in origin?
Having practiced different martial arts over 35 years, and trained in boxing over the last 4 years, i can say without hesitation that boxing can be used in self defense, street fighting. It really depends on one's mindset at the moment. Also, boxing does have its kata...shadow boxing. Although it's not a systematic set of predetermined moves
I would have to say 1 (Jab), 2 (Cross), 3 (Lead Hook), 4 (Rear Hook), 5 (Lead Upper Cut), 6 (Rear Upper Cut), and these next two depend on your trainer and system: 7 (Lead Over Hand), 8 (Rear Over Hand) is your beginner kata. Adding in footwork and angles is your foundation kata. Adding body and head shots is your intermediate kata, and then adding in slips, rolls, and ducks is your advanced kata. Further training, mitt work, and ring sparring is the process of getting "bunkai" out of your katas.
Awesome sir Ronald and sir Jsbcody
Yes there are parts of boxing that can be compared to katas. When I was trained as a kid I did nothing but throw steaight lefts for the first month. There are so many subtleties and variabilities in throwing punches and combos. The only thing is that in boxing there are no grades or belts, your lwvel is judged by how you go in the ring against opponents. No other martial art is so purely combat focussed.
@@jsbcody perfectly articulated 👍
Well? Yeah. Jump and dodge the ropes is pretty much the "wax on, wax off" of boxing if you think about it. Learning the speed bag works too.
Boxing is the most underrated martial art and I would say more street effective than a lot of traditional martial arts, style and fighter pending..
Boxing and wrestling are the most underrated martial arts that I know of.
@@daves_ I fully agree..
@Wills Pram It doesn't have to show. Traditional MA etiquet to be classed as MA,
I did kung fu when I was younger, full of traditional MA etiquet, the first time I went to.a Muay Thai gym, there was no bowing, or any etiquet shown, it was training, pad work and. sparing, when I went to a boxing gym, there was at least the touch of. Gloves..
Let's be clear and look at the origins of martial arts, it was originally for the battle field, in that case, this rules out Judo and aikido, however if you look at modern ideals of. Martial arts, it's for self. Defence.. Boxing is a fantastic self defence as is wrestling. This is proven that even some. Martial arts prefer the boxing. Punch. To. The long stance karate reverse punch..
The best MA Hybrid in my opinion is..
Boxing
Thai boxing
Any grappling..
I agree people don't like it but boxers beat most of them. I am not a boxer I like muay thai but it is true boxers beat most of them.
@@Deannatheos Absolutely, there are more MA adapting the boxers stance and punches, why because it works.
Self defence is what works for you, wrestling and boxing has been around for years in the Western culture, this is our MA, certain wrestling type styles are older than some Asian MA,
MA are for self defence purposes,
So for self defence purposes in a modern society, I would put any of the top 10 heavyweight boxers against a Shotokan traditionalist 10th degree black belt.
I would put a good wrestler/Grappler against a good boxer.
This is of course my. Opinion only..
My uncle was a golden gloves in the Marines. He taught me my combinations before I learned to tie my shoes. I did 5 and 1/2 years by the time I was fifteen in some very dangerous placements and facilities. Boxing literally saved my life multiple times.
Ooh do u know any really good boxing gyms
Absolutely a martial art for a variety of reasons.
Is it based in war? Yes most all sports from ancient Greece had direct links to warfare for example, wrestling, discus, running, chariot racing, and boxing. Later in England it was not gloved until Jack Broughton created the gloves and the ring. It also allowed grappling and throws. The first recorded trainers also taught wrestling and back sword along side it.
Does it have philosophy. Yes watch Teddy Atlas or Cus Damato. They live its philosophy. There is tons of wisdom from fighters that can fill volumes of books.
Is it for self defense? Yes that was its primary focus before the Broughton Rules, and if you were in america before judo. Boxing was the primary self defense method you could learn.
It also is more martial then most other arts. In the sport you fight where most martial artists go there whole lives with out fighting more the once or twice if at all. Physical conditioning is a big part and very important for combat sport or not. Most styles can be done just with forms and rehearsal. Shadow boxing is kata. Its rehearsing techniques and combinations of defense and attack. As for self defense techniques, most boxers could handle grabs and various strikes be it kicks or punches.
Lastly if I had a arsenal of techniques and skills and am sure mike tyson could still destroy me, then who is realy doing a martial art?
Yes. To the extent that punches can wound, maim, and kill, I'd have to say that boxing is a martial art.
Shadowboxing is a kata. I definitely felt that......
You're comparing a champion FAMOUS boxer to an average person by saying "oh Mike Tyson can still destroy me even though I have an arsenal of techniques". Why people compare TMA used by an average person to a professional is mind boggling to me. Also to me boxing is pure sport. There's no self-defense boxing techniques, it's taught purely as sport. What you say is nice and everything but I'm gonna be your high school teacher/college professor and ask you to cite your sources :P
@@adandyguyinspace5783 I swear it's like you have never picked up a history book .
It is one of the oldest martial arts and even by today's standards has repeatedly proven itself against other martial arts and it's literally something they train soldiers in both historically and in recent years .
Caliburn Combat I’ve been in honors my ENTIRE school career and was on the Dean’s list in college. And Humanities is my favorite topic, so yes I have picked up a history book. Boxing was made in Egypt as a contest, then the Greeks introduced it into the Olympics as a SPORT. Boxing is a sport. That was its original purpose
Boxing is most definitely a martial art.
_"Boxing is every bit as much a Martial Art as Traditional Martial Arts are! We earn our "Black Belts", they earn their "Golden Gloves"! Their Golden Gloves ARE their Black Belt! So yes, the "Sweet Science" is Absolutely a Martial Art! Yes'ir!"_
~Dr. David "Doc" Crouch. A Kenpo Man and friend of mine from SoCal
👍✌👊💪😎
Difference is you get judged purely on your martial ability in the ring. Golden gloves is a title earned from winning fights, black belts in some arts don't require this.
@@louissmith5298:
*_No argument there._*
*_I would say that even supports the notion even stronger that Boxing is a Martial Art. And an Exceptionally useful and practical application one at that._*
The conditioning, pressure testing, strength development and use in a wide array of combat in the ring and on the streets. I view it as a martial art in my book.
FYI love the Mike Tyson Punch Out effects and bite reference 😆
I consider boxing and wrestling to be martial arts.
I see you in some of the Red Pill/Manosphere community sometimes, @scw2007! What is your art, if it's okay to ask?
🙂
@@Scorch1028 like wise
@@dannyarnold4201 the art I practice is World Oyama Karate which is a Kyokushin offshoot. I crossed trained in boxing for two months prior to my injury.
I must say if you see me there it's not intentional. I have a strong stance against that mentality.
scw2007 Osu! Couldn’t agree more
Most definetely Dan, as you know I started my journey as a boxer, and I think it's just like judo focuses on throws, TKD focuses on Kicks, boxing focuses on punching, it's just another specialist art that is the best at a particular skill
Sensei Emmett tkd teaches punches but focuses more on kicks.
@@gracecowboy Yeah, most martial arts teach more than their main focus, as I said judo for example focuses on throws, but their groundwork (Newaza) is awesome
Sensei Emmett except wrestling and boxing
@@gracecowboy very true, though with boxing you do learn a lot of footwork, fitness, distancing, movement, etc. So there is still a range of skills to be mastered
Sensei Emmett same with wrestling or pretty much any martial arts
IMO!
The Art Of The Sweet Science
Is a "Martial art" look at how revolutionary Cos D Amato style is to martial arts when we see so many people incorporate some of the moves. Dominic Cruz , TJ Dillashaw.
Mohamed Ali outside Fighting Style. Used by Thai Boxing Legend, Samart Payakaroon. Training up to a high level striker and able to hit without being hit is Martial art.
Western Boxing 🥊🥊is definitely a martial art, a damn good one too, one one two!!! 😁 ...what were we talking about?
Great video Dan! 👍
If boxing is "just a sport" and "not a martial art," so is MMA.
If the rules of boxing are restrictive, so are the rules of MMA. More amateur boxers die in bouts every year than have died in MMA in its entire history. If boxing rules are "safe" but can't stop boxers beating each other to death, what does that make MMA rules that do?
I studied Kung Fu as a kid, and then in my mid twenties I met a boxer at work. We were both really into the science of our arts, and for the month or so we were working together we would find a quiet place to talk and move together. He had about 60 lbs weight and two inches of height on me, and I was a little out of shape and probably 30% body fat and he was younger and still fighting and to my jealous, easily impressed eye he looked to be about 2% body fat, so I just took it for granted that he'd be the last one standing if things ever got "serious." He surprised me then when, on one of our last talks, we were punching each other's hands and I remarked how forceful even his gentle taps were and he said, "Oh, yes, without a doubt if we were in a fight, one punch from me would end it... IF I could hit you. When we spar, you move and kick like I've never seen." When I asked him to elaborate, he said, "I know you'd hit me first. That's not even a question. Your tactics are just such a mystery to me and you seem to appear out of nowhere when we spar, and we aren't going anything like full speed. But I know I could take the first hit. And the second. And the third. At some point, those bee stings start to add up, though. I'm not sure if I would get wore down before I hit you, but I can tell one hit from me would pretty much end it. It's just a question if I would ever get one hit in or not."
Agreed
Who said MMA is even a martial art? It isn't, it's a mix of different martial arts hence the term "mixed martial arts".
I doubt that boxer was 2% body fat though, even pro bodybuilders aren't that shredded.
Absolutely - because boxers pressure test their skills everyday. Period.
Boxing is 100% a martial art because it’s an established form of fighting, like karate and taekwondo
That's not what defines a martial art. That's like saying I can fight with one hand and can call it a martial art because it's a form of fighting I use. For something to qualify as a martial art it HAS to be used in war, hence the term martial art. Does it have traceable techniques that were used in war? No? It's not a martial art and simply a hand to hand fighting style. Not all hand to hand fighting is a martial art.
With a massive history in fighting longer than most forms of combat even existed
@@adandyguyinspace5783 read a damn history book
Incubus, boxing is an established for combat, not some bs shit u just made up, so yes boxing is a martial art
Caliburn Combat No you
Haha I like how you referenced Tyson for the biting part. 😅
Is boxing a martial arts: YES! Just recognize there is a difference between boxing with gloves on compared to bare knuckles pugilism. I attended a bare knuckles pugilism class in 2019 as part of Historical European Martial Arts training. Very enlightening and excellent training. Boxing footwork was same but the hand techniques were much different. When you incorporate slips, rolls, head movement with the footwork, it is a very effective self defense system. For me, boxing has been the building block for my Filipino Martial Arts and JKD training. Adding in BJJ and hard style Aikido and traditional Jiu Jitsu training once pandemic restrictions are relaxed (at least where I live at).
Even Bruce Lee saw the advantages of Boxing and applied it in his Jeet-Kun-Do philosophy.
I think too many people think of boxing in terms as only the punches but I see it more about positioning, creating angles, footwork etc and the punches are almost secondary
Obviously the punches are the weapon but getting to land a punch is the real art
I almost disagree, i want to say any fool can punch, it takes a fighter to know how to set it up, to know position, to control the gap, the level, and the angle. It takes a fighters mind set to train and get punched in the face over and over and over before you even have a fight. Or to recognize what an opponent is up to. Ibthink tou were right with "the punch is almost secondary" because position first. I think all these things are tools of a boxer and they are equal. And i think boxing fits seamlessly into any style you want to add it to, even something like TKD. And it will always improve that style.
can you take it out of the ring and use it? does it mix with other styles? is fight science involved? my opinion, not that it matters, boxing is not a martial art, but boxers are martial artist. I think seperating the art from the sport is what is important. same could be said for muay thai, because muay thia is not muay boran.
Ah...I like that perspective....the PERSON is a martial artist and separating the sport. Awesome perspective.
Argument for it not being one can be applied to almost every martial art put there. And from one who had practiced the big 4 (boxing, wrestling, muay thai, bjj) and then some, i'd sure as hell consider boxing more practical than all the buttscooting going right now.
There is a lot of technique and foot work. I consider it a martial art because of that
I learned how to transfer my weight into punches from Jack Dempsey's teachings!
I have been boxing for over 15 years : I even have a coaching boxing license from USA BOXING. I believe it's a martial sport rather than a martial art. However your right on point with how it can be considered a martial art . Here one thing to consider you mentioned that boxing did not have a cultural type of system like let's say like Kung fu from China. Well in Mexico where I trained it is part of the culture as a way of life and there also the concept of styles of boxing. For Example the Mexican style is mostly about pressure fighting moving forward with technique example Juan Manuel Marques . We also have the Puerto Rican Style, Philly Style , New York Style ,California Style and there is also the European Style of boxing which tends to do a lot of leaning and using a high guard example Josh Taylor. You are also right on the money how boxing does help other martial arts as a great supplement. However I have also noticed that a lot of Wing Chun guys like to compare how they would counter a boxer as if boxing only comes in one way style. I haven't seen a lot karate guys do that. I thank you for the episode great job on the videos and hope to see more regarding this subject.
When you talk about the applicability of pugilism in a street fight, especially if it's a one on one fight,a pugilist beats the regular joe.
Since it is a form of hand to hand combat I think it qualifies as a martial art.
I can understand those who consider boxing as a sport or a martial art, but considering it as entertainment would be putting it in the same level as pro wrestling, which is utterly FOOLISH.
Boxing is a very underrated skill set, at school the boxers were always the ones winning fights besides that the fitness benefits you get from it is awesome.
Yes it is. It's one of the most effective delivery systems for stand-up range. It's very effective for self-defense. It has a no-nonsense approach, with focus on sparring and conditioning. And you practice it with aliveness (timing, energy, motion).
Boxing is most definitely a martial art. Thats an absurd argument from the beginning. Wrestling is a martial art as well.
Hmmm I’d say boxing has a lot of kata by way of shadow boxing which is an integral part of training. The basic 1-2, 1-3, 1-1-2 there is a general understanding of techniques and vernacular that boxers understand same as with kenpo and how you guys have your vocabulary of concepts and techniques. Now boxing doesn’t need as much translation as say karate with its bunkai. Much like many martial arts there are different styles in boxing. Also boxing was a battlefield art in that it was practiced by Greek/Roman warriors in preparation for warfare. The sportive aspect of it may have been different in terms of rules and equipment but it could be argued that it was one of the original battlefield arts. Just putting in the comment for argument’s sake. Love the work you do Dan! Keep it up!
Yes.
It teaches the basics and creates a solid foundation to build off of.
Hello Mr.Dan I love your videos and content and I’ve been waiting for this kind of video for a long time.
Yes I do consider boxing a martial art for a lot of reasons. One reason is that boxing is a lot older than a lot of people realize and that it goes back to Greek times along with another Greek martial arts often considered the first mixed martial art Pankration. The thing with boxing is that for some time it actually went extinct for a long time then it got revived from old sculptures and drawings. Boxing also is an art that is often overlooked in mma and MMA stands for (Mixed) Martial Arts. If an mma fighter doesn’t have a solid striking background at close range that fighter can get in trouble in the ring or octagon. Boxing also probably has the best endurance fighters. A good example is Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier these boxers went toe to toe in three big fights and if these fighters didn’t condition well such as running and other exercises these fighters would’ve gassed much faster. Boxing also has the most important aspect that is overlooked in other martial arts is endurance. Put a karate fighter, a Taekwondo fighter, and a Thai fighter against a boxer in an endurance fight I guarantee you that a boxer will have the upper hand because a boxer has to train their endurance to maximum level. (No disrespect to these martial arts as I personally do TKD and other friends that do karate and Muay Thai). Even Bruce lee mentions boxing and how it’s realistic in terms of pressure fighting and moving because in a fight you have to keep moving and in a movie with him fighting Chuck Norris he emulated Muhammad Ali in a south paw stance. Bruce Lee also mentioned that a fighter should combine the best techniques a fighter that has too good of a throw for a karate man, too good of a throw for a boxer, and too good of a punch for a judo man.
These are some of many reasons why boing is a martial art
Great discussion! I liken this thought, though, to the 'is sport karate a martial art' and I have a similar answer. Boxers are amazing athletes. They're in great shape and they can all probably kick my tail 6 ways from Sunday. It's a great sport - geared towards the next fight. There may be some who treat it more like a martial art and train for the sake of training, but most train for the next fight. That to me makes it a sport (plus all of the rules) versus a martial art.
My martial arts journey began because of a professional boxer when I was a child. My Dad got into a brawl with a boxer, and let's just say Dad got pretty messed up. After that, Dad started taking Taekwondo, and I started going along with him. Dad never got into a fight again after that. I, however, got into a couple fights at school, but they were one-and-done fights because of my training (as my current instructor says, "one punch, one kick, end of fight"). Also, when I was a kid I used to watch Aaron Pryor jog past my house shadow boxing. It was really a sight, I could tell he was something special. All that being said, calling boxing a "martial art" ignores the lifestyle and character development that go along with the traditional training process. Many people never gain any understanding of that part of it anyway, for instance I know some excellent modern Taekwondo athletes who haven't a clue. So, it isn't that boxing doesn't teach enough about fighting, it's that it doesn't teach enough about peace. Peace of mind, peace of character, diffusing a situation, how to conduct yourself, and if necessary, how to manipulate an opponents body to subdue them with minimal input. Boxing, on the other hand, is all about meeting power with power. Sorry, but it's a definite "no".
@@natekelly770 Good question, now we're actually getting to the meat of the issue. Since every school is different, it's impossible to take any one label and call it a martial art. It depends on how the class is taught. A single school might teach a traditional Taekwondo class, a kickboxing class, a kick aerobics class, and Tai Chi. Depending on how they are taught, the first and last from that list MAY be martial arts if they are taught with the necessary depth, diving into character issues, personal conduct, anatomical manipulations (so that a weaker individual gains an advantage over a stronger one), actual Chi (focusing your power and yielding to their power), etc... So yes, with proper instruction, TKD, Judo, and Karate can certainly be martial arts.
@@natekelly770 Yes I understand your take. A professional MMA fighter would probably agree with you, and I certainly wouldn't want to tangle with one. But a student of Shaolin Temple, for example, would most certainly disagree. It's hard to understand unless you've actually been down that path, and few have. Hence the reason so many of us get tripped up on the issue. Lots of titles have meanings that go deeper than the definition of the individual words. There are many "fighting styles" out there, but comparatively few martial arts.
There's no question if you're a boxer, and have had a month of wrestling, 80% of people can't touch you
I'd argue that it is a martial arts. It has contributed the modernization of dozens of martial arts due to its strikes refining the means to best defend against what you are most likely encounter on the street. Boxing in the ring is against a conditioned opponent who is either trying to knock you out or piece you for points. With that being said, similar to the MMA argument, it doesn't take much to apply it with less restrictions. Trying to say that it isn't, is, as far as I'm concerned, splitting hairs.
The sweet science of reading what your enemies give to surgically dismantle a for, is something that more martial arts should better incorporate to(as you said) round out their weaknesses and more properly engage with more confident application vs martial theory
I'm an amateur boxer, I've done lots of other arts too and I can definitely tell u YES!! 100% its an art. Btw we have a lot more then 4 punches lol. We have the great, head movement, Angles, foot work and much more. If u wanna get a taste of how effective boxing is just go down to any boxing club/gym near u for some sparring lol. I guarantee after u get banged up you will see its an art and u will wanna learn it ;-)
It is. Boxing is the building block for most styles especially mma and kickboxing.
I just went to my very 1st class of boxing. Yes, I considered it a martial art. Because your learning to punch, upper cuts and etc. I also study brazilian jiu-jitsu mixed with judo at my dojo. So im looking forward to see what I can do to mix my experience with boxing in with my jiu-jitsu/judo. Damn my arms and calf hurt after my 1st day from boxing. But it's all the adjustments I need to adapt.
Art of One Dojo love the video and love channel aswell, and Yes Boxing is a Martial Art, and Yes! it is a sport aswell
There is a negative opinion of sport, within the martial arts community, and other comments have discussed the validity of Boxing as a martial art because it is conscidered a sport. But I want to address the notion of a sport winthin martial arts, and yes Boxing is a sport; more importantly it is a sport that is officially recognised as one of two martial arts recognised as a combat sport by the US athelitics comission, of which there are two combat sports that are officially recognised by the USA Atheletics Commission as Sports: Boxing and MMA.
Within the TMA community the idea of a sport martial art suchas; sport Karate, sport Tae Kwon Do sport Judo, sport BJJ, has a negative opinion of some how being diluted from the traditional form' and in a diluted form off set; a Tae kwon Do'ist a bility to knock out an oponent with a a high jump kick "in say" an MMA (unified rules) competition maybe comprimised by the rule set, however they're set to meet on even grounds. Suchas weight, age, height etc. And more importantly blood tests or narcotics.
Karate, Judo or Tae Kwon Do are not subtitute to such rules, because officially under law they are considered hobbies, and indifferent to laws reguarding sports. Sport activities have to under law abied by specific codes of conduct and activity under a certified athletics commision. ie the boxing atheletics commission or a recognised boxing atheletic institute.
This intern protect the practioners, and is one of the reasons that why you will struggle to find a Boxing McDojo. Under law you can loose your instructor license and gym operator licenceship. Basically the boxing athelitics commision can shut a gym down for unsafe practice or not teaching boxing in an officially recognised format through safety. Organisations such as American Kempo association and World Tae Kwon Do Federation are legally trade marks and can't prevent any Tom, Dick or Harry opening a Martial Arts school and calling it "Such and Such Kempo" or "Wat The Fook Tae Kwon Do". Legalley the organisations can only prevent them from using or associating with said organisations name. Where as a boxing has to be recognised by an official association, otherwise it is a hobby club and not a true boxing club.
This again protect the pracitioner. If you enter a weekend open Karate comp for the weekend and are set to gain a gold plated medal in your specific weight devision, because of the hobby nature of the tournament theres nothing legally stoppng your opponent from taking steriods, or worse yet competing whilst having a blood born virus like Hepititus. Legally speaking there is no grounds for an individual to disclose any desease or medical condition for a hobby based tournament. However legally you can be liable to enter a Boxing or MMA match up without first being identifiable as a risk to your opponent via blood born patthogens or other potential risk deseases.
Again protecting the practitioners competing within the weekend based friendly point scoring comp, there is no legal requirement for proffessional medical practitioners to be present, as a hobby the organisations are not requited to sports based practices, legally qualified emegency practitioners are not required to be present. Whereas official Boxing amateurs, semi professionals. and proffessionals are required to have official representatives and officially recognised medical personel to be presents. This protects individuals from themselve as well as themselves from unnececsary harm. Assuch the officially recognised referees.
Ultimatemately a sport vs a self defences martial art, there are only two officially recognised sports by any atheletics commisions and they protect the practitioners in terms of competition, and are a good things in preventing undue harm to an individual or unfair practice through competition. But ultimatily a practitioner in sports martial arts is not restricted to the sport variant. There is nothing preventing the practitioner from persueing a self defence or self perfection within there chosen art form. And with that I would bet on Alexis Grasso, Tony Ferguson, Vasyl Lomachenko or Amir Khan in a street fight any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
What I love about boxing it is technical it is fun to see the boxers reading each other its like combative chess. As far as self defense it focuses on less tools but like you said quality over quantity, also it needs to be said accuracy is a big deal for self defense it's not fool proof, but learn the knock out spots and learn to hit that spot hard and regularly such as the temple, point of the chin, liver etc. Add in dirty boxing it is deadly.
My cousin use to street fight he focused on boxing he said it felt honest, it felt natural, there is no unnatural movement in boxing. He won more than he lost. I think it is 100% a martial art.
Also the art of Dojo have you seen this video Human Weapon episodes and top 10 Martial Arts that get you ripped Muay Thai and savate the most famous and popular kickboxing styles
Yes, boxing should be considered a martial art for sure. It doesn’t have 26 kata’s, nor a need to protect against an ashi barai. But, a boxer does learn how to improve power and efficiency thru repetitive motions on a heavy bag with the knuckle protection of a bag glove, hand eye coordination with double end bags or speed bags or mittwork, and coaching of the sweet science for the ring. A different approach with some similarities, but gets to the same destination.
Real old school Boxing included Kicks & Grappling, and in some forms of Folk Boxing that still can be found today.
Don't get me wrong Western Boxing was not what we today would consider a well rounded Martial Art, it was mainly Fist Strikes but it did include Low Kicks, Trips, Sweeps and Stand-up Grappling. It lacked Mid to High Kicks and Ground Fighting, but Wrestling was for your ground game and unless you where a French Sailor Europe wasn't in to High Kicks.
Have you looked into To Shin Do, Stephen K. Hayes' system?
I personaly consider every sport that can protect you in a situation with agressive people a martial art. It all has defensive and offensive techniques to absorb or deflect attacks effectively and or to actively perform attacks on an agressor. It all has it's advantages and disadvantages in what you are able to do or what you are being taught in that sport. The only difference in my opinion are the traditions and (honorable or less honorable and respectfull or less respectfull) mindset the practitioner gets from the sport.
I think the confussion comes from mixing things up.
Martial arts are the arts of war that comes from the battlefields and were adapted to be taught to civilians as a way to protect themselfs, spiritual growth, teach values, etc.
Fighting Styles or Combat sports are the ones used strictly for fighting, dueling, etc. the only focus on this is to beat the opponent in front of you, to best your opponent and prove superiority. You are looking for a WIN.
Self Defense systems are the ones used to survive encounters with a criminals who wants to harm us. In this case, we don't engage in a fight rather we try to avoid at cost the confrontation and in case of a physical confrontation, we look to do things quick, and leave the scene.
So, considering this, Boxing falls into the Fighting style category. Of course, we can borrow techniques from boxing to improve our martial arts of self defense skills but, keeping the eyes on the goal of each category.
Pugilism (Boxing) and Wrestling are the first martial arts.
And Pankration was probably the first MMA application.
I would also argue shadowboxing IS the boxing kata. (If all you throw is variations of the five boxing punches: jab, cross, hook, uppercut, and bolo), then its going to look different from a karate kata)
And the knockdown karate derivatives / offshoots Enshin Karate (and I think Ashihara) uses shadowboxing and kata, combined, so its not like its not in some of the more later, ultra-modern karate styles.
And because of some issues where boxing styles came from places like prison, there are cultural elements instilled in those boxing styles, like Peekaboo Boxing from Coxsackie Prison in New York.
Karate's sword and shield defence (a set up for a body jab), shows up in boxing as the Philly Shell.
And legend has it Comstock / Jailhouse Rock / 52 Hand Blocks / 52 Blocks came from prison or developed from prison as well.
Boxing and boxers also have styles: the swarmer, out-boxer, slugger, and boxer-puncher.
I was watching a Chinese documentary online about traditional Cangzhou martial arts. The masters were at a dinner table discussing about Western boxing. One of them commented the peek a boo guard must have been a very old stance, since it was very instinctive for many people in different cultures to do that.
Anyway, is fencing a martial art or sport? The same question can be said for wrestling and judo as well. There are Olympic sports like javelin that has roots in warfare.
Modern Boxing comes from Italian fencing schools called sols. It’s comes from rapier and dagger fencing style. Boxing is the gentle side of fencing like judo is the gentle side of jujitsu.
I think it come from pugilato, it was practiced in pre roman period in italy, with gloves, in sardinia for example.....
We do a lot of boxing in Krav Maga Global! Imi Lichtenfeld(The founder of Krav Maga), was a professional boxer a wrestler, and realised it wasn't enough to defend his Jewish community.
Apart from what you learn from a typical sparring art, Krav Maga also teaches,
•Defending against multiple attackers
•Defending against weapons
•If it's legal in your country, learning to use weapons
•Both the pre and post fight
•Scenario training
•What are the laws and reasonable force in your country
•How to avoid a fight, and being aware of your surroundings
•Pressure testing
•Training in different environments
There's just so much more to cover when it comes to self defense. And I think when it comes to training in martial arts, you've got to work out if your training for sport, self-defence, or tradition.
I think krav maga is excellent.
And many have mix different martial arts with boxing to make their movements and hits sharper and stronger in street fights
You can mix any martial art together to have your strikes more potent
Imagining using raisei with boxing
As a former amateur boxer l must say that a boxer is the most accurate puncher than any train fighter and like kickboxing we also use footwork.
The definition martial arts are various sports or skills, mainly of Japanese origin, that originated as forms of self-defense or attack, such as judo, karate, and kendo. Yes, boxing is a martial art.
I think it's open to interpretation based around an individual's perception on what a martial art is.
But that being said it's a HIGHLY essential component for any fighter's arsenal.
I feel boxing is a Martial Art is because I feel “Martial Art” is just another way of saying “Fighting Style”
It was in the bloody coliseum, in Panatukan ( Fillipino Boxing) has elbows galore
If you don't need spirituality or "inner energy" to define it as a Martial Art, then absolutely it is. I find there's as much detail and biomechanics as Wing Chun
I have always said that if a person who practices filipino boxing( panantukan) had a boxing background then they could make their panantukan much more effective.. I see a lot of panantukan videos and can tell the instructors have zero experience in western boxing...but instructors like guro billy brown ..guro harley elmore..master samuel scott ...master Ron balicki to name a few have excellent boxing skills and it shows in their execution of their movement.
Mr. Dan Do You Remember Troy Dorsey. Troy Dorsey Come From Karate And Tae Kwon Do Background. Troy Dorsey Decided To Make Transition From Full Contact Kickboxing To Boxing.
Fine points on both arguments. I think the best point you made was differences in styles of fighting through the years. Personally I believe it is as most law enforcement and military self defense training (at least from what I've experienced) begins with jabs, crosses, hooks, and uppercuts. All of which are used in boxing. And it's very possible for a seasoned boxer to defend themselves successfully against an opponent using mma, karate, judo, etc. It all depends (I believe) on the individual's skill and experience.
Great vid. I agree 100% I was going to comment further but you said it all! :)
ANYTHING having to do with war or combat is a martial art. Archery is a martial art. The skill of using the slingshot is a martial art. I've seen boxing outside of the ring used for SD situations and it was brutal bloody and injurious. Osu 🙏🏼🐉🐅
To me any style of self defense is a martial art.I boxed for 10 years and used boxing whenever I was in a street fight but most street fights turn into brawls where a mix of wrestling/jiu-jitsu and boxing seem to work best.
I’ve been training Shaolin SanDa under my Shifu from the shaolin temple for a wile. I’d love to see you make a video on Sanda kickboxing since you haven’t mention that style in any of ur videos and it’s one of the most effective striking systems. Great video tho
I think that eventually this channel will get around to mentioning Sanda. Currently, there is a backup of requested styles to cover. Considering that there are tens of thousands of martial arts that could be covered, it could be a while until Sanda is covered. Martial arts have experienced so many "schisms" that have led to various sub-styles, that it could take decades to cover each martial art in a 5-minute video segments.
Scorch1028 Yeah but I think SanDa is way more relevant for today’s combat unlike weather if boxing is a martial arts or not. Everyone knows boxing is one of the best and most scientific arts
I agree.
Yes, very much.
This question has been in my head for a long time
Boxing is the essence of martial art.. all martial arts comes from boxing...
on my opinion, a lot of words for it, depending on the purpose, you can call it "martial art" if there are culture and philosophy of the movement, then "sport" if it just for a tournament of the championship, then you can also use "sport combat" if there are a lot of application for combat but in sports scopes, but in the end, all of the purpose and the importance it can also use for "self-defense"
Mr Dan you know my stance on boxing and I vote 100% yes in fact I believe it’s the world’s oldest martial arts and FYI great video and I have a request can you do a video about Muay Thai my 2nd Discipline
We are exploring some Muay Thai topics :)
I add to my previous post, the guy has got it right, Boxing is a Martial art.
As someone who is training in boxing I would say it's definitely a martial art. Not to mention wouldn't shadow boxing be considered a "kata".
Really mind-blowing 🙂
The question of wether boxing is a martial art or not is merely one of semantics, it’s obviously a martial art. In many ways I’d say a boxer is more prepared for an actual fight than many quote unquote martial artists.
Yes it is. The Sport has nearly lost that Martial arts and self defense essence but it is a Martial arts. Boxing today has moved far the root...old school and puglism are the closest you will get to what its supposed to be
Boxing was practiced by ancient Greek warriors pre-900 B.C., and it didn't become a "sport" until the Olympic Games of 688 B.C. Considering that boxing exists within many different militaries, and that soldiers, sailors, and airmen have boxing "in their arsenal" of Close Quarters Combat (CQC), I'd consider boxing to be a martial art.
Anglophone countries have included Boxing as part of officer training at the service academies along with Milling since inception. In the western european context the Spartans and Romans included Boxing as part of their army training. If you have gauntlets or basic harden gloves it's a simple means of attack. Bayonet Boxing was the main cqc system until jiu-jitsu was added in the early 1900s. The combatives were actually formed to augment and complement the boxing base. In World War I, the Commission on Training Camp Activities established training programs unique to the U.S. war effort. With these programs, mass singing, boxing, and several other sports became mandatory activities in military training camps. Mass singing was said to improve the lungs and morale. Boxing would ready troops for hand-to-hand combat. Additionally, training in boxing would lead to success with the bayonet and boost overall confidence. For the boxing program, each major camp would have an experienced boxer as the camp instructor with assistants to work with each unit. The boxing training was revised in March 1918 to 30 minutes daily of shadow boxing followed by 30 minutes of some other exercise. Shadow boxing taught quickness of movement and alertness. Shadow boxing was believed to foster fighting with the head as much as the hands. Also the dismounted baynot service utility knife was essentially jab, slash, uppercut, hook (knife boxing) with alfred hutton dagger drills until fencing was phased out infavor of Philippines system in WW2. Even know Army and Marine combatives include the basic boxing curriculum into their systems, so it hasn't disappeared, but subsumed within mma/jiu-jitsu.
The milling is basically 1-2 repeatedly until your opponent drops, and it use to be done with singlestick too. the United States Military Academy has required all incoming male cadets complete an introductory boxing course. Daniel Mendoza the art of boxing based his lesson and drills on the British Army broadsword 10 lessons drills. Basically you can slash, stab, and punch using the same combinations of number patterns. Moulinet is French for milling, but it's done with a sword to teach keep slashing until for drops. Boxing for Beginners, with Chapter showing its Relationship to Bayonet Fighting
By William J. Jacomb, with introduction by Joseph E. Raycroft.
Originally published by Lea & Febiger (Philadelphia and New York, 1918).
You want your fighting with a weapon to be as instinctive as your fighting without a weapon, so as someone who trains boxing you would prefer to stab not slash; wanting the fighting with a knife to be as similar to how I fight without a knife, so that way you don't have to consiously think about what I'm doing. Thus, Bayonet & Knife Fighting is based from Boxing, so instead of learning a completely new style, it's efficient learning and more comfortable for the soldiers to learn a new weapon based off of something they are familiar with. It is the same ideology as Xingyiquan.
Boxing is not self defense it's as simple as that , see their is a difference between doing as much damage to your opponent as much as possible, and fighting multiple attackers with knives, but importantly if you don't know how to box you don't know how to fight but if only know how to fight you don't know how to defend.
I’ve been studying boxing and referring to Jack Dempsey’s book Championship Fighting to improve my martial arts. That book contains a multitude of martial arts skills - to name a few:
1. Body mechanics.
2. Core connection for power.
3. Footwork that works.
4. Essential information on punches, attacks, and defense.
5. Kata. The speed bag is essentially a kata. Dempsey’s kata is simple but effective.
6. Several evasion techniques comparable to those seen in internal martial arts.
Train boxing guys. It’s worth it.
Also Id consider the repetition of set strike and slip combos to be pretty similar to traditional kata
Yes it is.
I have boxed and done Muay Thai and I have a black belt in kenpo karate, an orange belt in Judo, and a brown belt in BJJ (just offering my credentials, not looking to impress anyone).
I’m fond of “Big tent” interpretations and as boxing is certainly an art form and definitely martial in its appeal it meets the criteria for me personally.
Real “martial arts” train with gloves and pads so in a way one could look at a boxing “match” as merely a way of training striking without injuring yourself or the other person. And the “limitations” of boxing allow one to increase their proficiency in using their hands to strike. The last time I checked I didn’t see students walking out of a bjj studio better strikers; one doesn’t train striking to become a better grappler, no, one focuses on the skill they’re trying to learn, the same goes for boxing.
Just because a Boxing match doesn't allow you to kick and wrestle doesn't mean it's not a martial art. Just consider how Judo also throw away those strikings from tournament or Taekwondo did the same thing with the takedown or even leg sweep. So incorporating Boxing into our arsenals is something really recommended for sure.
Boxing is way beyond a term like " martial art". More like a way of life .In boxing everything is about individualism, doing it your own way, being able to stand your ground. It`s an expression of freedom. It`s just....fighting.
Technically though, isn't every traditional Martial Art about a way of life?
My opinion? Boxing (a universal term of h2h combat) is a *Artless Martial Art* with no set form or patterns. It uses every part of your body as a weapon not just the hand's (my definition of it). And adapts to the situation given. Because of sport? Boxing develop its own identity. Not just for combat sport. But, combat as a way of self-expression.
Never thought of it before this video but absolutely yes
Boxing is a style
Boxing to me is not just fists,but it includes the use of feet to kick, grappling,knees,elbows, throwing etc .Yeah, boxing is a martial art if it s not for sport with rules and with gloves and knows how to kick,short or long range.
Though Boxing is not considered a martial art It typically does extremelly wellwhen pitted against any form of Asian martial arts.
I don't consider boxing or BJJ a martial art, however, they typically train with actual martial methods, which is why their practitioners actually have demonstrated some success in real-life situations. The opposite is true for sport karate, which is why I do not consider WKF sport karate a martial art, either. By that I mean that people training for WKF tournaments do not really train the mind in a proper way to develop proficiency for a real-life situation.
I Vote Yes, Sports and Martial Arts! 🇵🇭💕
Yes boxing is both martial art and sport.
Boxing is a Martial Art 👊🏻
This is so old you probably won't see this lol. But here we go
First, as far as military, in the Marine Corps we trained boxing to a point. They put us in these tiny tarp boxes face to face and had us slug it out lol. I have black belts in Taekwondo and Karate. I currently train at a MMA academy where we focus mainly BJJ and kickboxing. Even in the kickboxing, it's 85-90% boxing training. I know this because I boxed AAU for several years.
Finally, I recently started training Hapkido as well. The club I go to is affiliated with the CPD Judo club so we do alot of throws and takedown (something woefully lacking in BJJ). Now Hapkido is largely self defense based, so in a class while we were doing (basically bunkai) I put my hands up in a orthodox boxing stance to throw a punch. Of course I was stopped immediately. I was looking threatening. And to "show" me that it was ineffective because they could "read" the telegraph, the senior BB told me to throw a punch at him.
I knew what he was wanting to do, so to be respectful I went about 50% speed AND threw a cross rather than a jab to give him time to react......yeah. my fist stopped right next to his head. He said, "No no. Throw the Punch how you would ACTUALLY throw it on the street" we repeated with exact same result.
As a boxer I learned, worked on, and drilled NOT telegraphing my punches. In MMA I learned how to throw them from deceptive angles to limit how much someone sees them coming (why it is so important to keep hands up, cover chin with shoulder while punching, etc. It's not the punches you see coming that get the KO).
I will keep going for awhile because it's fun and the throws and joint locks can supplement my jiu-jitsu. But I could throw all of my BB away or take someone that has only trained boxing for....hmm let's say 3 months, and they would flat KO most black belts in TMA.
SO is it a "battle art"? Absolutely. Karate as we know it has only been around for.....maybe 120 years give or take? The ancient Greeks had boxing in the Olympics. Thousands of years ago. Boxing predates even Chinese martial arts.....by a good bit. As far as sport... .BJJ, Karate, TKD. .. ..they are all sports now. Unless that BJJ is part of an MMA curriculum that deals with striking and stand up fighting .....BJJ will get you killed on the streets. Literally.
So I wouldn't just say boxing is A martial art ....it is THE martial art. Add wrestling and it becomes a complete martial art. Everything else is just frosting. Good stuff. Great add ons. But not the cake.
There are two strict distinctions that are being merged into one definition here. Boxing is The Art of Pugilism and as stated at the start of this video it has been around for thousands of years. The sport of Boxing is just that, it's a sport and does not represent the purest and rawest forms of pugilism, or closed fist combat. The are many forms, the most popular in current times is, of course, the sport of boxing with all the added extras you have included such as the rules of the sport, which has evolved and continues to do so over time.
In this instance and for this question, Boxing should be referred to as The Pugilistic Arts, the fundamentals of which are more commonly known as "The Sweet Science". To learn how to box and not simply swing your arms around like an untamed, uncivilized, and unconscious primate is something that requires dedication, discipline, athleticism, and natural ability to be successful. Furthermore, boxing is in its most basic form nothing less than a style of fighting that uses our most versatile natural god-given weapons to their utmost potential.
The greatest boxers in the modern sport are more often than not the products of the greatest trainers in the sport, of whom are no different from any other elite masters of the martial arts. They are often underrecognized psychological and philosophical geniuses. I believe that because the sport also implements a lot of western sporting and physiological science it is disregarded due to a lack of mysticism.
The combat style of boxing is not merely a restriction due to the rules of a game. No, the art of boxing requires you to have both feet touching the ground as much as possible and leaving the floor as little as possible in order to maximize the balance required to throw your closed fist into the designated target in the most effective way. Even Bruce Lee was an admirer of western boxing.
Thanks for reading!
We can find easily street fights videos where people are knocking out each other with straight punches, but is hard to see the same with TMA techniques... There must be something that Boxing is doing very right or that TMA are doing very wrong
Probably many TMA guys don't fully rotate their hips into their punch like boxers do.
How many street fights involve throwing closed fisted punches? Ive never known a feared streetfighter who doesn't know how to throw punches
Any sport where you practice real combat regularly is more a martial art than doing kartas in front of a mirror.
The very definition of martial art is "technique designed for combat".
The first documented use of the term in the English language is not even tied to Asian styles (as some seem to believe) but to European manuals of traditional sword fighting.
I have yet to hear a single sensible argument for why boxing shouldn't fit the definition.
It's a highly effective combat style and if anything it's even more "road tested" and practical to use than most of the popular asian ones.
Two good points:
1-All about efficiency.
2-Good body conditioning.
Two bad points:
1-Limited options(Just hands)
2-You train to fight clean,You will do so.
(On the street you should do everything to Survive).👊💪🐉🐲
If it doesn't prepare you to everything, and it prepares you only to an opponent who will throw only punches to you, it is not a martial arts.
A boxer is strong, but the most of his skills are based on a fight punch against punch. in boxing there is a rithm that allow to "read" the other, in the street there is no rythm, because the other doesn't move like a boxer.
If you train boxing in order to answer to any possible, any possible, attack from the other, then it would be a martial art.
But I don't really think that anybody train that way.
In that case most martial arts are not martial arts. Karate does not deal with throws or ground grappling or using weapons. Judo does not have kicks or punches. BJJ is almost purely ground fighting. Fencing is only weapons as is kendo.
@@miesvaillanykyisyytta3252 in fact you are right.
Most of traditional karate is not traditional at all.
The old school Judo and Karate had all of this stuff. This is why when you and me speak about traditional martial arts, we don't converge.
If those aspects are missing, we are speaking about the modernized and westernized version of martial arts, and so no martial arts anymore.
Also kendo, in the old version, contained also other action and attacks, with kicks and sweeps for example, since the hands are holding the long sword. And in the battlefield, once you lost the sword, you used short wakizashi and jujutsu!
When there is this segregation, it is sport, where the aim is to see who is the best in the single area.
When there are no limitations, it is martial arts. And again, a boxer who trains to resolve with punches only whatever attack from the opponent, armed or unarmed, more people, he is doing a martial art because he practice with a martial idea with no limitations.
But a professional boxer why should he do this, if the aim is to beat another person in boxing, in a ring with a set of rules?
Only a real martial art which is not concerned with set of rules can do that, if it is really traditional.
But then, we have to accept that once you take this decision, it doesn't have anything to see with any kind of competition. It is a different training.