These two guys remind me a bit of an academic Bevis and Buthead. It was hilarious when his friend tried to protect him by saying that he knew what he was talking about and the friend said, “I still know what I am talking about!” I kept laughing every time I thought about it. But I also felt sorry for the guy because everyone laughed and he felt humiliated and walked off. We human beings are so emotionally fragile and we so need Jesus to know who we are so we can be emotionally strong.
Yep, he's an exemplar of "the Dunning-Krueger Effect", where his tiny amount of knowledge on a subject combined with his ego give him this sense that he knows WAY more than he really does. He could literally argue and get wrecked all day long and still think he wins in the end, this is the arrogance of the Pharisees back then.
Cliff asked him what his tests were in determining the reliability of a historical document and he said he had none but, tried to sound real smart criticizing Cliff’s test with arbitrariness 🤣
This young man sure treated his friend badly every time he tried to add to the conversation. That is not a friend I would want in my life~ one who shuts everything you say down. Cliffe handled this human mouth piece with courtesy.
Cliff I think this young man and his friend must have just got done smoking a big fat joint before they came to debate you. This guy was incoherent much of the time. You had great grace with him. You could have could have skewered him multiple times and ridiculed him but instead you showed great restraint and grace. I learned something. Bravo.
This kid's "argument" is all smoke and mirrors which is the common atheistic platform. Meaning the blonde kid talks, interrupts and just rambles to prevent Cliffe from speaking; it's the truth being suppressed. Again well done Cliffe! I still would love to make a trip to CT to meet you in person. God Bless!
definitely! & To go as far as "we can't be sure of any historical document" I guess this particular atheists' non belief spans any individual not alive in front of him but I liked to believe all atheists aren't like this...
Oh I know so far I have met one atheist who is currently looking at the evidence. But with The Age of Ignorance still in effect the tactic the kid is using is all too common.
@@dperkins01 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved ❤ Repent (Confess to God that you’re a sinner and you can’t save yourself and only Jesus can) and believe that Jesus died, was buried and rose from the dead on the 3rd day and thou shall be saved . If you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is LORD, and believe in your heart that GOD raised him from the dead, you shall be saved
I think cliff could have got me to believe pretty quickly, as I always believed in God, I just didn’t know who he was or how I could possibly connect with him, but now I’m starting to understand who God is! I can’t wait to get to keep getting to know him!
I feel bad for these college kids who have been trained to argue and debate logic like this. I've seen it go to such extremes that people don't even believe their own reality anymore because they cannot prove it.
This dude is making nosense ...no flow to his argument at all and his friend is too funny... Cliffe really enjoy your work, clear and simple to follow , thanks for sharing this
It's amazing that THIS is what actual college level academics are saying.... this kid saying "I don't think we can ever really KNOW history", even that Napoleon, Hitler, etc. were real. Unbelievable.
I feel sorry for this young man who treats his superiors with such disrespect. Even if he disagrees with Cliffe, he was intellectually dishonest, immature, and hard-hearted. His problem is not evidence, his problem is his heart. He knows that God exists, he just loves his sin more than he loves God. (See Romans 1:18-20)
I'm not nearly as devout as Knechtle, but it seems like he's a great teacher and debater, hopefully this kid learns to debate a little better in the years to come.
I notice anyone who argues against the validity of Christ and the Bible eventually try to spin it to offending the feelings of others in an effort to change the direction of the discussion
Hi Clifford, we atheists sometimes have a hard time trying to understand the Christian viewpoint of believing a man came down from heaven to take away our sins.. and if we don't accept him as our saviour we are condemned to eternal hell. If you step out of the Christian bubble it does sound absurd.
docfate My atheism has nothing whatsoever to do with something from nothing, all atheism is, is a lack of belief in God(s). I have no idea what came before the universe, I leave that to scientists to work out.
bonnie43uk Atheism is not a lack of.belief. it is does not believe in a creator of the universe. Dont change the meaning of atheism. Atheism is someone who claims there is no god.
clifford sy I think if you check various dictionary definitions Clifford you will find they tend to give differing meanings. Most atheists will tell you they don't believe in God, or that they lack belief in God. I'm certainly not changing the meaning. Should credible evidence of God come to light I will adjust my view accordingly my friend :-)
askcliffe hi Pastor Cliffe, this is David from Connecticut. Has anyone asked you during your dialogues how does one be perfect as the Father in Heaven is perfect (Matthew 5:48) and how does one walk as the Messiah walked (1 John 2:6)? During my time as a believer, I actually took the time to read through the entire Bible including the books within the Apocrypha (great information) as well as some parts of books like Enoch, Jasher and Jubilees (excellent information filling in details not mentioned in Genesis). From my own discovery, the answer to both of the above questions is found in a single word, which is obedience. For example, the test of love for the Creator and Messiah is by keeping His commandments (John 14:15,21; 15:10, 1 John 2:3;5:2-3 and other places). While some will look at my answer and think I am promoting a works-based salvation, I was simply answering the question. To address that assumption, the foundation of salvation is based on the death of Jesus, or Yeshua for the Hebrew speakers, that paid the penalty for our sins. However, once you repent, which effectively is passing through the narrow gate, then there is the narrow way, which is obedience. Then there is that section in the book of James that says faith without works is dead, and the proper context is regarding someone who is an established believer, and this is related to sections such as Matthew 25:31-46.
We also have 5,000 more than 5,000 Greek original texts describing and speaking to Christ and his divinity. Eye witness accounts historical truths that we can study today as historically reliable texts.
One simple point the young man overlooks is the fact that all the disciples rather than recant, were persecuted and died for what does saw and believed. I wonder if the smug young upstart was asked to admit to the truth of a document knowing it to be false under pain of death?. I don't think so!
awww felt bad for the other kid, he was jus trying to help his friend. instead of teasing and laughing at him. help him. not gonna lie I did laugh because he states the obvious. but it was I think it was genuine. he jus wanted to help. felt bad when everyone laugh and he walk away.
This kids obvious determination to misunderstand makes him one of the dumbest college students I've come across. Cliffe's patience and ligic are obvious. Peace
The blonde guy needed to understand that trying to make an argument he doesn’t have to get all technical and pretend to be some intellectual academic to the point where I don’t think he even knew what he was talking about. To get his point across he just needs to use logic and keep things simple, just like Cliffe uses…and if he doesn’t agree with Cliffe’s logic then that’s okay. He knew Cliffe’s logic was right but he tried to be too smart for his own good and everyone saw through it.
21:57 -- child says, "...placing your faith in someone else can almost invariably lead you astray." I don't have any faith in the speaker of that statement, so I don't believe that the statement is true, and I think that if I did have that much faith in him, then that would invariably lead me astray. Because I don't want him to lead me astray, I don't trust anything that he says.
This is the year 2015 AD, which stands for _anno domini,_ which means "The Year of Our Lord," and it refers to the historically factual birth of Lord Jesus Christ: There is more evidence for Jesus' existence than there is for yours.
People have a problem with the amount of years 2000 years ago, How recent does it have to be to be accepted as history, as he often mentions George Washington, What is acceptable ? 2000 years ago, 200 years ago, 20 years ago, 2 years ago ?
Hi bonnie. Dont know if you remembered during my past writings that i have been to both fences. So i understand atheist thinking as well. But this kid i was lost at his arguments that even his friend said..."im sure he was making sense one time."
Hi again Clifford, yes, no doubt the young lad did get a little muddled when trying to put his points across, so in terms of "winning or losing" the argument, he was up against a hardened Christian apologist, there was no way the kid could compete, but i could see where he was coming from. We don't all have Cliffe's debating skills.
Hi bonnie. This student probably knows some philosophical words such as ad hom, ect. imperical evidence...but with really lousy examples. i think however there will be a part two with this student. i think discussion hasn't ended yet. let us see then.
bonnie43uk Here is a question i would like you to have an answer. The most atheistic counrty China...Here are the facts. 1.) They have government censorship 2.) For nearly 3 generations many people were not told of the christian world view by their parents or authority. 3.) That churches have been destroyed or converted into other uses when communism came. 4.) Having already a legitmate world view in buddism, taoism. etc. 5.) That the driving force of many people is to be financially wealthy given by the fact they work from monday to sunday! that's right rest is sleep and national holidays. This is in most areas in china except for beijing, shanghai. 6.) The government banned any form of religious beliefs. All of a sudden there will become 250 million people who will become christians. It is near a mathematical certainty that China will become the biggest number of christians in one country. How come millions and millions chinese people who have no faith in any religious world view. will embrace a faith that has rules in which hinders their convenience in life, which already has a good philosophical teachings in life (confucious) they could have easily adopted that since it was there for 2500 years. Why the christian faith? Why a faiith which atheist claims lack of evidence? Are they deluded into thinking it? Did their society dictate them to be? Or is it something missing in their new found economic power?
clifford sy Hi Clifford, Yes, absolutely i agree with you that China has embraced Christianity, i already told you that you are absolutely correct. As for why, it's not something I've given a lot of thought to. If the Chinese are happy with being a Christian nation, then I have absolutely no problem with that. Why do you think China has embraced it? have you got any theories? I'd be happy to hear them. I suppose it must have something to do with communism relaxing their freedom rules, China used to be a closed society, maybe a little like Russia in the 70's where everything you did was scrutinized and Western influence was frowned upon. China will probably overtake the USA soon in being the most powerful nation in the world, they are making leaps and bounds in things like technology and engineering. They seem to have adopted western economic ideals and their economy is booming. It seems they've also adopted Christianity. As I said to you last time Clifford, the huge number of people converting to Christianity does not mean it's true. How many of those millions of Chinese Christians truly understand it's whole meaning and history?. It took me about 45 years before I found out that the 4 gospels of Matthew Mark Luke and John were written by unknown writers and those names were added much later. And then gradually I've discovered a whole load of inconsistancies and errors. The more I delve into it, the less solid those foundations appear. *************************************** Let me put this to you Clifford, lets think outside the box for a few minutes. Lets use our imagination, and pretend that we are in Gods shoes, we have his supernatural powers and are capable of anything. It's 2,000 years ago and our son Jesus has just been crucified for our sins, and he's now resurrected, the bible tells us he appeared to his disciples and he ascends into heaven. It's left to them to spread the good news. .. that good news wont arrive in China for about another 700 years, In South America it takes even longer, Christopher Columbus sets sail for the New world in 1493, in North America Franciscans arrive in California in about 1541, in 1566 the first Jesuit arrives in Florida and is clubbed to death by fearful indians. etc etc .. it's taken a long long time for this message of Christ to slowly move around the Globe, and it's not always been welcomed with open arms. Now, if you or I were God, and we had his supernatural powers, use your imagination, try and think of a better way to spread the word of Jesus. How about this, Jesus appears to everyone at the same time, in every single continent, he preaches the exact same things in every continent, speaks their language, in each country he performs miracles.. he tells them what God requires of each of them, then he returns to Judea in his 30's and carries out his mission of dying on the cross for all of humanities sins. Once he is dead, indestructable tablets appear all over the world, with Christ's teachings on them, written in the language of the people. These tablets cannot be destroyed or edited in any way whatsoever. Maybe for those people who cannot read, they just have to touch these magic stones, and it transfers the message on the stones to their minds so they can understand it. They are clear and precise and totally unambiguous, nobody who reads them is in any doubt of their meaning.. they speak of loving one another and loving God. We are also told we can either accept these words and live in eternal heaven when we die, or not accept them and face the wrath of God when we die. I think humanity would be more inclined to accept Christ as their saviour and Lord in that kind of scenario, than the way Christianity has spread and turned into thousands of versions of Christianity, causing untold division and fighting. I'm sure there are flaws in my scenario, but to be fair, it was thought up by me, it still includes the crucifixion, the resurrection, miracles, I'm sure if i gave it some more thought , i could fine tune it and make it better.. maybe have Jesus appear back on earth every 10 years on lets say December 25th, where he performs amazing miracles, in every country in the world. Even if disbelievers try and kill him, he could come back to life. .. "Thou has tried to kill me, but look, I live, I am alive, for I am Christ thy saviour, thou cannot kill Christ now go in peace in Gods name". That would be pretty impressive i think even you'd agree Clifford. If you tell me my idea is ridiculous, surely no more than stories of talking snakes and donkey's, a man living in a fish, talking burning bush'es, water turning into wine, a man walking on water etc etc. If my eternal soul depends on Christ, i want some credible evidence rather than stories that have dubious origins. You can believe it, but my skeptical mind requires more proof. ******************************************* Did you ever answer my question i posed to you a week or so ago Clifford? Had you and I been born in a strict Muslim country, do you think you'd now be a follower of Islam? I have no problem in saying Yes, I almost certainly would be, what say you?
bonnie43uk Hi bonnie. Kindly give some thought because it is important, to why China, there are people who are atheist in them, with having money as its driving force all their lives, despite suddenly have so much money at their disposal, having the fastest rise of millionaires and billionaires that can just buy anything to distract them, despite government sanctions, in fact the teaching of christianity go against the teachings of communism! with having a much older religion in buddism and some of the greatest philosophical thinkers of all time. Choose Christianity and will become the largest chirstian sector in the world. If you say it is influence by the western ideals, believe me...the chinese don't look up to the west as much as you think. It was a truly long read but i don't think you have read my last comment on another video. Kindly check it out, I even answered the muslim thing you are asking. But let me put some more info in that. As long they are free to choose, believe me as Ravi Zacharias said there are hundreds and thousands who want to go to christianity but they are scared or being controlled. With that in mind God will judge them on a different scale i believe. He will in fact take into consideration the places you are being born into. And he will never be unjust and will always be fair. Will they be damned for eternity because of that? again i don't even know where i will ultimately go even if i believe in Christ. I am not the judge and juror. And don't you think it is wonderful that someone like me isn't the judge of right and wrong because i am unfair, corrupted and make mistakes. Unlike us who are free and still choose otherwise. Again as for his methodology as to why he showed up during that time and place and as to why he can't show up everytime we want to...first of all this does not disprove, far from it, if a creator of the universe exists. It doesn't even disprove the notion of a christian God. I ultimately don't know the answer to that because first of all i am not God and he didn't even consult me as to his methods. This is the same analogy if a loved one was taken away from us we are suddenly are to ask, why did God took him so quickly? Or as why are there so many people being born with defects...if God loves us so much then he wouldn't have done that. In my limited understanding i can't answer that as well. But argument will never disprove a universal creator that atheist claim there is no such thing as God. Say it will take this amount of time for the word to reach places, it is okay. God will only judge you with the information given to you. Same as the people of the old testament who don't believe in Jesus but are in heaven. Cliffe pointed out there are truckloads of people who are there without knowing christ. If you truly believe that he hasn't given you enough evidence then fine. God is always fair and just and he will listen to you as to why the evidence presented doesn't meet up. You can even give the argument you have presented here. God again will be fair and just. And if he finds your arguments valid then probably it could be a ticket straight to heaven you will go...that is of course if that is where you want to go. That includes everyone of us, muslims, chirstians, buddist, etc. There may be some christians who I believe are there but not there. And there may be some people who i think are not there but are there. Again I'm not the judge and juror of anyone. Just like in china where money and success is taught as their driving force. The eviidence is they work from monday to sundays! their only break is to sleep at night and holidays. (there are exceptions like shanghai and beijing) Suddenly a huge influx of money coming into their hands with no background to a christian beliefs. Suddenly believing in a faith so foreign to them... heck some buddist even said the Jesus is like buddha when he was born he can walk at once! Sadly i have to tell them that is not the case. . Again my friend if you are sincere that he didn't showed enough evidence to you. That is fine. That would be your stand when we ultimately meet up with him. If there is no God then we all will be stardust. In our limited understanding of the cosmos, I want to show you a perspective slides where we are and how small we are. Can atheist still claim there is no creator after seeing all this? www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/the-universe-is-scary
It is really really scary to me what young people are being untaught at schools meaning universities but also regular school. There's an 11-year-old in my family who can barely read and I mean barely she is only now learning cursive cannot read cursive and I was reading and writing cursive at 8 years old! College students can't even think on their own they have no critical thinking skills due to liberal professors and I am not against liberal people but our young people need to be taught both sides of the same coin and they are not!
It is amazing how someone can talk so much and be unaware of how ignorant his arguments are. I can only hope that I don't come across like that. Nonetheless this video is a wake up call to anyone seeking Truth.
@James G I know what he is saying but that is a lie. We all have access to history and the evidence is there if you look. Pretending that you cannot know history because you weren't there is just stupid. People choose to believe in the Big Bang but not Jesus. Give me strength.
MAny people in countries where the gospel never reach give testimonies of having had a vision about Christ multiple times continuously so that's proof at least to me he lives since i may self came to faith the same way!
Pretty clear this young man has NOT researched for himself and then comes to debate someone older who HAS and talks as if the man is insane and his research is bogus ..well then show how he's bogus prove it because he's giving you evidence to why he beleives and your are not
The young man should go to a secular history professor at his fine university and ask him is what he teaches fact and if so how does he know. Forget about God and Jesus for a moment but just listen to what tests the history professor uses to prove historical facts. I’m pretty sure the tests would be very similar to Cliffe’s 🤷♂️
This young man has so many holes in his theory, I could put a fat elephant through it, however, if cliff gets more time to talk to him, I really believe he would eventually believe in Jesus, I could just see it in him.
At about 13:00 minutes Cliffe seems to be making the assertion that if Jesus wasn't who he said he was ( the son of God who died for our sins), and that if you don't believe this then what is the purpose for living? As an atheist I have an amazing lust for life and purpose. I live for the sheer joy of living, seeing my family and friends, the interaction I have with them, seeing my football team win.. (and lose), music, movies, books, tv, internet, etc etc the pleasures in life far outweigh the downsides. I feel incredibly lucky to be alive and in a position to help others who are less well off via donating to charities and generally being kind to people. I would say to anyone, I can assure you, your life would not lose it's meaning and purpose if you didn't have Jesus in your life, if it helps you, all well and good, but it's certainly not essential. There are children in the poorest parts of India who have next to nothing, but they are full of Joy. Purpose is whatever you want it to be., it doesn't depend on Jesus.
The mere fact that you and I spent 30 min watching this video proves we believe there is more than what our eyes can see and we long for it. Under atheism, Jesus is fake and that's the end of the story...however we still bothered to watch it! Note, the message of salvation is a gift to humankind and we are completely free to reject.
grasuh I like to hear Cliffe's thoughts on Jesus, and i don't agree with him. Cliffe is an excellent speaker to be fair, we are all entitled to our opinions. What if I were to tell you I think I am more moral than Jesus grasuh?, If I had the power that Jesus supposedly had, I would ensure that a place of eternal torment would not exist, If Jesus has this power to remove the concept of Hell, then I believe he is immoral in not doing so. It's my firm belief that no sentient being deserves such an infinite punishment, not even Hitler, Stalin or whoever. I saw on the news today the courageous American who went out to Syria to help giving aid and assistance to those who needed it, while over there he converted to Islam. Isis terrorists beheaded him yesterday. Now according to Christianity, because Islam rejects Christ as their saviour, he will be sent to eternal hell ( so I'm told by so many Christians). That to me is immoral. How can that be a moral act, to send *anyone* to hell?
bonnie43uk All the joys and pleasures you experience in this life are all a gift from God. When people reject God and after death enter their final state, all those gifts cease to exist, all that's left is despair and sorrow. You may believe that no one deserves Hell but that's because you don't understand the true *holiness* of God. God is a God of love, but he's also a God of justice. Let me try and put it in terms of human justice. If I punched a bum on the street, I could probably get away with it. If I punched my boss I'd lose my job. If I punched a police officer, maybe I'd spend a week in jail and pay a big fine. If I managed to punch the President, I would go to prison for a long time! Now it's the same exact action, but why did the penalties change?...It depends on the object of your offence. The greater the authority, the more severe the punishment. So what is the proper penalty for offending an infinite, perfect, holy, eternal God?...It's called Hell. Btw, Hell is locked from the inside, God doesn't really send anyone to Hell, we send ourselves when we willfully reject His free gift and provision for salvation.
fellowservant34 Hi fellowservant34, yes, absolutely, what crimes and misdemeanors we commit here on earth we pay the consequences depending on the severity of our actions. That makes perfect sense, as did your punching scenario. It's something we can all understand. What doesn't make sense to me is a person here on earth who lets say rejects Jesus's "gift" of eternal salvation, because, unlike you, he didn't believe the stories of Jesus, they lacked credibility, I'm probably talking about myself. Now when I die, because i rejected Christ ( which i do), my punishment for that rejection is to spend 900 trillion billion years in hell, and when I've completed that sentence ( which is beyond any human's grasp of time btw), when those years are finally up, i get told i must spend another 900 trillion billion years of hell. And so it goes on. Stop and think about that for 5 minutes and hopefully you will see how absurd it is. I have lived a fairly mundane life, I haven't killed anyone, I've not deliberately mistreated anyone, my parents raised me to respect others. I have lived my life doing the best i can. I did steal a bottle of Coca Cola from a shop in 1973, now I'm sure you're not telling me that deserves eternal punishment. Even you would think that absurd. As I've said in other posts, the absurdity from the Christian viewpoint is this. Had Hitler in his final days in his bunker, realized his terrible errors, broke down and wept, and *genuinely* begged forgiveness and asked Jesus to forgive him for all his crimes, Christian doctrine tells us that he would go to heaven. While my genuine doubts over the credibility of the bible and my honest rejection of Christ sends me to eternal hell. A place where I would not even dare to send Hitler for eternity.He died a broken man, his dreams of a German super empire in ruins, let that be the end of him, there is no need for us to be pernicious towards him and ensure he is tortured forever in hell. I could even say forgive him.
***** Hi again Funk, I do not believe in heaven or hell, I was merely putting myself in the hypothetical position of having Gods omniscience, omnibenevolence etc. Surely an afterlife without this "gnashing and wailing of teeth" as Jesus described it, is better than one with it, especially one that we're told is eternal. As i said trillions of years of hell is something that none of us can possibly imagine, it's beyond our comprehension. If God has the power within him to do away with this hell, but he chooses not to, then, yes, I believe in a hypothetical situation, if i had his supernatural powers, i would banish the concept. Nobody deserves that sentence, no matter how badly they have behaved in their life.
Cliffe sometimes lets the other person talk themselves into a hole they dig themselves into and then try to get out of it when he shows them basic logic. The person will then start talking even more using word salad and digs themselves even further into a hole. Sometimes just letting a person speak while you listen calmly is a wise thing to do.
The thing that gets me is that its impossible to reash,reach, that God has not prepared their heart and mind ,by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.They cannot receive it.it is inaccessible to them.God already knows if that person has a contrary mind..I believe in Jesus method.speak the truth,,after that,whomsoever will,to him that has spiritual ears let him hear,and to him that has spiritual eyes let him see.Those prepared from the foundation of the world will receive the message unto eternal life. The mockery won't no matter what.They just argue in circles,you can prove everything absolutely. And they will still reject it because they love darkness and hate God.
These two guys remind me a bit of an academic Bevis and Buthead. It was hilarious when his friend tried to protect him by saying that he knew what he was talking about and the friend said, “I still know what I am talking about!” I kept laughing every time I thought about it. But I also felt sorry for the guy because everyone laughed and he felt humiliated and walked off. We human beings are so emotionally fragile and we so need Jesus to know who we are so we can be emotionally strong.
Yep, he's an exemplar of "the Dunning-Krueger Effect", where his tiny amount of knowledge on a subject combined with his ego give him this sense that he knows WAY more than he really does. He could literally argue and get wrecked all day long and still think he wins in the end, this is the arrogance of the Pharisees back then.
Hahahahahaha! Great call! I totally see it! You're funny. And these videos are aweSOME! GOD bless you 💖🙏
Cliff asked him what his tests were in determining the reliability of a historical document and he said he had none but, tried to sound real smart criticizing Cliff’s test with arbitrariness 🤣
I think i will pray for that guy
WoW.... even his friend distant himself from him
This young man sure treated his friend badly every time he tried to add to the conversation. That is not a friend I would want in my life~ one who shuts everything you say down. Cliffe handled this human mouth piece with courtesy.
Cliff I think this young man and his friend must have just got done smoking a big fat joint before they came to debate you. This guy was incoherent much of the time. You had great grace with him. You could have could have skewered him multiple times and ridiculed him but instead you showed great restraint and grace. I learned something. Bravo.
Hi Scott mate there is no wins in acting him with the bible with out love
This kid's "argument" is all smoke and mirrors which is the common atheistic platform. Meaning the blonde kid talks, interrupts and just rambles to prevent Cliffe from speaking; it's the truth being suppressed. Again well done Cliffe! I still would love to make a trip to CT to meet you in person. God Bless!
definitely! & To go as far as "we can't be sure of any historical document" I guess this particular atheists' non belief spans any individual not alive in front of him but I liked to believe all atheists aren't like this...
Oh I know so far I have met one atheist who is currently looking at the evidence. But with The Age of Ignorance still in effect the tactic the kid is using is all too common.
This kid was probably smoking something before he tried to debate Cliffe.
Cliff has the patience of the saint to talk with these kids....
Cliffe is rude and arrogant because he believes that you believe you can't see that.
@@dperkins01 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved ❤ Repent (Confess to God that you’re a sinner and you can’t save yourself and only Jesus can) and believe that Jesus died, was buried and rose from the dead on the 3rd day and thou shall be saved .
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is LORD, and believe in your heart that GOD raised him from the dead, you shall be saved
@@dperkins01 laughable comment
O
Oh my gosh!!! That student's argument is making my head spin at 1,000,000 miles per hour!!! DX
19:52 -- child says, "Trust me."
Cliffe says, "No, I'm not going to trust you."
LOL
Rip argument xd
This kid.. Its like he just found a box full of big words and he's trying to figure out how to use them on Cliffe.
When there are many words, transgression is unavoidable,
But he who restrains his lips is wise.
- Proverbs
LOL -- and it's not working!
lol It's that atheist psycho power that got this kid confused.
xVicViper47x LOL dat mind control
So true.
Cliff...you are just awesome!
Thank you so much Cliffe! Your last comments freed me from anxiety.
The closing message is so me.
I needed to hear this when I was a nonbeliever. 😅
I think cliff could have got me to believe pretty quickly, as I always believed in God, I just didn’t know who he was or how I could possibly connect with him, but now I’m starting to understand who God is! I can’t wait to get to keep getting to know him!
This will never get old 😭
I love this show can't wait to watch it tomorrow at 10 so proud he's lives in my state CT
Excellent videos, Cliffe. Not sure I would have the same patience with such a difficult and close-minded individual.
Wonderful video, all glory to God.
This kids is so full of pride it's scary.
I feel bad for these college kids who have been trained to argue and debate logic like this. I've seen it go to such extremes that people don't even believe their own reality anymore because they cannot prove it.
Thx cliff, your awesome with humility given to you by our Lord Jesus.
This dude is making nosense ...no flow to his argument at all and his friend is too funny... Cliffe really enjoy your work, clear and simple to follow , thanks for sharing this
5:32
That reaction in the background
20:20 lol...that was classic, the guy in blue hoodie cracks me up.
Excellent grace and patience offer to young mind. Very awesome ❤
God bless you cliff
It's amazing that THIS is what actual college level academics are saying.... this kid saying "I don't think we can ever really KNOW history", even that Napoleon, Hitler, etc. were real. Unbelievable.
When Cliffe says "You've lost me", I think everyone in the whole group was lost, including the speaker himself.
Man that’s going in the lions den! This takes a tremendous amount of skill! We all need to enter into these conversations.
I feel sorry for this young man who treats his superiors with such disrespect. Even if he disagrees with Cliffe, he was intellectually dishonest, immature, and hard-hearted. His problem is not evidence, his problem is his heart. He knows that God exists, he just loves his sin more than he loves God. (See Romans 1:18-20)
this was one of the best videos ..
This was great comedy. But at the same time it was really scary
You are awesome!!!!! God bless!
I'm not nearly as devout as Knechtle, but it seems like he's a great teacher and debater, hopefully this kid learns to debate a little better in the years to come.
God bless Cliife.
Good Job Cliff!
20:37 "I'm sure he knew one point he knew what he was talking about." ROFL!!!
I notice anyone who argues against the validity of Christ and the Bible eventually try to spin it to offending the feelings of others in an effort to change the direction of the discussion
Your a blessing cliff would love to come hear you preach sometime my friend
Boy...i really didnt understand what this college kid is talking about. I replayed it again and i still didnt get it.
Hi Clifford, we atheists sometimes have a hard time trying to understand the Christian viewpoint of believing a man came down from heaven to take away our sins.. and if we don't accept him as our saviour we are condemned to eternal hell. If you step out of the Christian bubble it does sound absurd.
bonnie43uk
It is less absurd than the Atheist notion that in the Beginning there was nothing, and then Nothing Exploded, and became Something.. LOL!
docfate My atheism has nothing whatsoever to do with something from nothing, all atheism is, is a lack of belief in God(s). I have no idea what came before the universe, I leave that to scientists to work out.
bonnie43uk
Atheism is not a lack of.belief. it is does not believe in a creator of the universe. Dont change the meaning of atheism. Atheism is someone who claims there is no god.
clifford sy I think if you check various dictionary definitions Clifford you will find they tend to give differing meanings. Most atheists will tell you they don't believe in God, or that they lack belief in God. I'm certainly not changing the meaning. Should credible evidence of God come to light I will adjust my view accordingly my friend :-)
We can most certainly know history: To deny the fact that we can know history is sheer madness.
we have to have patience with people like this guys
askcliffe hi Pastor Cliffe, this is David from Connecticut. Has anyone asked you during your dialogues how does one be perfect as the Father in Heaven is perfect (Matthew 5:48) and how does one walk as the Messiah walked (1 John 2:6)? During my time as a believer, I actually took the time to read through the entire Bible including the books within the Apocrypha (great information) as well as some parts of books like Enoch, Jasher and Jubilees (excellent information filling in details not mentioned in Genesis). From my own discovery, the answer to both of the above questions is found in a single word, which is obedience. For example, the test of love for the Creator and Messiah is by keeping His commandments (John 14:15,21; 15:10, 1 John 2:3;5:2-3 and other places). While some will look at my answer and think I am promoting a works-based salvation, I was simply answering the question. To address that assumption, the foundation of salvation is based on the death of Jesus, or Yeshua for the Hebrew speakers, that paid the penalty for our sins. However, once you repent, which effectively is passing through the narrow gate, then there is the narrow way, which is obedience. Then there is that section in the book of James that says faith without works is dead, and the proper context is regarding someone who is an established believer, and this is related to sections such as Matthew 25:31-46.
Lmao I love beavis and butt-head
C'mon Cliff, you hired these guys in surely! It's very sad really. Great vids, keep spreading the Word brother, shalom.
Ur so ignorant lol this is real
Those were the days man
Even if he had the evidence he still would not believe! I'm embarrassed for him!
The kid is determined to misunderstand. And this makes him very confused.
We also have 5,000 more than 5,000 Greek original texts describing and speaking to Christ and his divinity. Eye witness accounts historical truths that we can study today as historically reliable texts.
8:16 -- boy doesn't know the meaning of the term "ad hominem."
LOL
That kid got cracked under holy pressure oooooooOOOOO praise be
The kid with the blonde tips doesn't know what "strawman" means! LOL
Actually, I think he and his buddy are both stoned! LOL
The boy talked himself into a corner so many times.
I blame Cliffe and these videos for me not doing my homework🤦🏾♂
One simple point the young man overlooks is the fact that all the disciples rather than recant, were persecuted and died for what does saw and believed. I wonder if the smug young upstart was asked to admit to the truth of a document knowing it to be false under pain of death?. I don't think so!
This is the funniest episode ever!
Wow!
Cliff is so intelligent. :D
Billions of people have tried to prove Jesus wrong, and everyone of them have failed.
Like, they're like... oh, man, like, this would be a cool story to tell...
and like, faked manuscripts... and like... oh, man! LOL
awww felt bad for the other kid, he was jus trying to help his friend. instead of teasing and laughing at him. help him. not gonna lie I did laugh because he states the obvious. but it was I think it was genuine. he jus wanted to help. felt bad when everyone laugh and he walk away.
Sounds like you have a kind heart 🙂. Same thing was going through my mind while watching this.
He did get embarrassed
Im an agnostic atheist (99%) but i love cliff!
This kids obvious determination to misunderstand makes him one of the dumbest college students I've come across. Cliffe's patience and ligic are obvious. Peace
lol at 20:42
too funny im crying
This is hilarious
That intro is such a mic drop!
Yeah sometimes I start sentences too and don't know where their going lol
The blonde guy needed to understand that trying to make an argument he doesn’t have to get all technical and pretend to be some intellectual academic to the point where I don’t think he even knew what he was talking about. To get his point across he just needs to use logic and keep things simple, just like Cliffe uses…and if he doesn’t agree with Cliffe’s logic then that’s okay. He knew Cliffe’s logic was right but he tried to be too smart for his own good and everyone saw through it.
The boy with the blonde tips and the George Michael scruff
doesn't know what the term _"ad hominem"_ means! LOL
Cliff please come to Lawson state community college in birmingham alabama. We really need someone like you to draw us closer together to Jesus christ.
Cliff is proof of God's love being poured out to these students in a very hostile environment!
21:57 -- child says, "...placing your faith in someone else can almost invariably lead you astray."
I don't have any faith in the speaker of that statement, so I don't believe that the statement is true, and I think that if I did have that much faith in him, then that would invariably lead me astray. Because I don't want him to lead me astray, I don't trust anything that he says.
It feels like the kids debate sounds like a story 😅 😅
#Socoflims another level
what college is this at?
Is that Will Witt?
Students argument is weak, he all over the place with his weak argument.
This is the year 2015 AD, which stands for _anno domini,_ which means "The Year of Our Lord,"
and it refers to the historically factual birth of Lord Jesus Christ: There is more evidence for Jesus' existence than there is for yours.
I swear down, the guy in the blue hoodie is taking the mick even more than the dude talking to Cliffe!
People have a problem with the amount of years 2000 years ago,
How recent does it have to be to be accepted as history, as he often mentions George Washington,
What is acceptable ?
2000 years ago, 200 years ago, 20 years ago, 2 years ago ?
GEORGE MICHAEL IN HUMAN FORM
holy smokes is Wham at the start of the video 🎶 wake me up before you go go....
hilarious this kid is, its amazing how he can embaras himself this long
Hi bonnie.
Dont know if you remembered during my past writings that i have been to both fences. So i understand atheist thinking as well. But this kid i was lost at his arguments that even his friend said..."im sure he was making sense one time."
Hi again Clifford, yes, no doubt the young lad did get a little muddled when trying to put his points across, so in terms of "winning or losing" the argument, he was up against a hardened Christian apologist, there was no way the kid could compete, but i could see where he was coming from. We don't all have Cliffe's debating skills.
Hi bonnie.
This student probably knows some philosophical words such as ad hom, ect. imperical evidence...but with really lousy examples. i think however there will be a part two with this student. i think discussion hasn't ended yet. let us see then.
bonnie43uk
Here is a question i would like you to have an answer. The most atheistic counrty China...Here are the facts. 1.) They have government censorship 2.) For nearly 3 generations many people were not told of the christian world view by their parents or authority. 3.) That churches have been destroyed or converted into other uses when communism came. 4.) Having already a legitmate world view in buddism, taoism. etc.
5.) That the driving force of many people is to be financially wealthy given by the fact they work from monday to sunday! that's right rest is sleep and national holidays. This is in most areas in china except for beijing, shanghai.
6.) The government banned any form of religious beliefs.
All of a sudden there will become 250 million people who will become christians. It is near a mathematical certainty that China will become the biggest number of christians in one country.
How come millions and millions chinese people who have no faith in any religious world view. will embrace a faith that has rules in which hinders their convenience in life, which already has a good philosophical teachings in life (confucious) they could have easily adopted that since it was there for 2500 years. Why the christian faith? Why a faiith which atheist claims lack of evidence? Are they deluded into thinking it? Did their society dictate them to be? Or is it something missing in their new found economic power?
clifford sy Hi Clifford, Yes, absolutely i agree with you that China has embraced Christianity, i already told you that you are absolutely correct. As for why, it's not something I've given a lot of thought to. If the Chinese are happy with being a Christian nation, then I have absolutely no problem with that.
Why do you think China has embraced it? have you got any theories? I'd be happy to hear them.
I suppose it must have something to do with communism relaxing their freedom rules, China used to be a closed society, maybe a little like Russia in the 70's where everything you did was scrutinized and Western influence was frowned upon. China will probably overtake the USA soon in being the most powerful nation in the world, they are making leaps and bounds in things like technology and engineering. They seem to have adopted western economic ideals and their economy is booming. It seems they've also adopted Christianity.
As I said to you last time Clifford, the huge number of people converting to Christianity does not mean it's true. How many of those millions of Chinese Christians truly understand it's whole meaning and history?. It took me about 45 years before I found out that the 4 gospels of Matthew Mark Luke and John were written by unknown writers and those names were added much later. And then gradually I've discovered a whole load of inconsistancies and errors. The more I delve into it, the less solid those foundations appear.
***************************************
Let me put this to you Clifford, lets think outside the box for a few minutes. Lets use our imagination, and pretend that we are in Gods shoes, we have his supernatural powers and are capable of anything. It's 2,000 years ago and our son Jesus has just been crucified for our sins, and he's now resurrected, the bible tells us he appeared to his disciples and he ascends into heaven. It's left to them to spread the good news. .. that good news wont arrive in China for about another 700 years, In South America it takes even longer, Christopher Columbus sets sail for the New world in 1493, in North America Franciscans arrive in California in about 1541, in 1566 the first Jesuit arrives in Florida and is clubbed to death by fearful indians. etc etc .. it's taken a long long time for this message of Christ to slowly move around the Globe, and it's not always been welcomed with open arms.
Now, if you or I were God, and we had his supernatural powers, use your imagination, try and think of a better way to spread the word of Jesus. How about this, Jesus appears to everyone at the same time, in every single continent, he preaches the exact same things in every continent, speaks their language, in each country he performs miracles.. he tells them what God requires of each of them, then he returns to Judea in his 30's and carries out his mission of dying on the cross for all of humanities sins. Once he is dead, indestructable tablets appear all over the world, with Christ's teachings on them, written in the language of the people. These tablets cannot be destroyed or edited in any way whatsoever. Maybe for those people who cannot read, they just have to touch these magic stones, and it transfers the message on the stones to their minds so they can understand it. They are clear and precise and totally unambiguous, nobody who reads them is in any doubt of their meaning.. they speak of loving one another and loving God. We are also told we can either accept these words and live in eternal heaven when we die, or not accept them and face the wrath of God when we die. I think humanity would be more inclined to accept Christ as their saviour and Lord in that kind of scenario, than the way Christianity has spread and turned into thousands of versions of Christianity, causing untold division and fighting.
I'm sure there are flaws in my scenario, but to be fair, it was thought up by me, it still includes the crucifixion, the resurrection, miracles, I'm sure if i gave it some more thought , i could fine tune it and make it better.. maybe have Jesus appear back on earth every 10 years on lets say December 25th, where he performs amazing miracles, in every country in the world. Even if disbelievers try and kill him, he could come back to life. .. "Thou has tried to kill me, but look, I live, I am alive, for I am Christ thy saviour, thou cannot kill Christ now go in peace in Gods name". That would be pretty impressive i think even you'd agree Clifford.
If you tell me my idea is ridiculous, surely no more than stories of talking snakes and donkey's, a man living in a fish, talking burning bush'es, water turning into wine, a man walking on water etc etc.
If my eternal soul depends on Christ, i want some credible evidence rather than stories that have dubious origins. You can believe it, but my skeptical mind requires more proof.
*******************************************
Did you ever answer my question i posed to you a week or so ago Clifford? Had you and I been born in a strict Muslim country, do you think you'd now be a follower of Islam? I have no problem in saying Yes, I almost certainly would be, what say you?
bonnie43uk
Hi bonnie.
Kindly give some thought because it is important, to why China, there are people who are atheist in them, with having money as its driving force all their lives, despite suddenly have so much money at their disposal, having the fastest rise of millionaires and billionaires that can just buy anything to distract them, despite government sanctions, in fact the teaching of christianity go against the teachings of communism! with having a much older religion in buddism and some of the greatest philosophical thinkers of all time. Choose Christianity and will become the largest chirstian sector in the world. If you say it is influence by the western ideals, believe me...the chinese don't look up to the west as much as you think.
It was a truly long read but i don't think you have read my last comment on another video. Kindly check it out, I even answered the muslim thing you are asking. But let me put some more info in that. As long they are free to choose, believe me as Ravi Zacharias said there are hundreds and thousands who want to go to christianity but they are scared or being controlled. With that in mind God will judge them on a different scale i believe. He will in fact take into consideration the places you are being born into. And he will never be unjust and will always be fair. Will they be damned for eternity because of that? again i don't even know where i will ultimately go even if i believe in Christ. I am not the judge and juror. And don't you think it is wonderful that someone like me isn't the judge of right and wrong because i am unfair, corrupted and make mistakes.
Unlike us who are free and still choose otherwise.
Again as for his methodology as to why he showed up during that time and place and as to why he can't show up everytime we want to...first of all this does not disprove, far from it, if a creator of the universe exists. It doesn't even disprove the notion of a christian God. I ultimately don't know the answer to that because first of all i am not God and he didn't even consult me as to his methods. This is the same analogy if a loved one was taken away from us we are suddenly are to ask, why did God took him so quickly? Or as why are there so many people being born with defects...if God loves us so much then he wouldn't have done that. In my limited understanding i can't answer that as well. But argument will never disprove a universal creator that atheist claim there is no such thing as God.
Say it will take this amount of time for the word to reach places, it is okay. God will only judge you with the information given to you. Same as the people of the old testament who don't believe in Jesus but are in heaven. Cliffe pointed out there are truckloads of people who are there without knowing christ. If you truly believe that he hasn't given you enough evidence then fine. God is always fair and just and he will listen to you as to why the evidence presented doesn't meet up. You can even give the argument you have presented here. God again will be fair and just. And if he finds your arguments valid then probably it could be a ticket straight to heaven you will go...that is of course if that is where you want to go. That includes everyone of us, muslims, chirstians, buddist, etc. There may be some christians who I believe are there but not there. And there may be some people who i think are not there but are there. Again I'm not the judge and juror of anyone.
Just like in china where money and success is taught as their driving force. The eviidence is they work from monday to sundays! their only break is to sleep at night and holidays. (there are exceptions like shanghai and beijing) Suddenly a huge influx of money coming into their hands with no background to a christian beliefs. Suddenly believing in a faith so foreign to them... heck some buddist even said the Jesus is like buddha when he was born he can walk at once! Sadly i have to tell them that is not the case. .
Again my friend if you are sincere that he didn't showed enough evidence to you. That is fine. That would be your stand when we ultimately meet up with him. If there is no God then we all will be stardust. In our limited understanding of the cosmos, I want to show you a perspective slides where we are and how small we are. Can atheist still claim there is no creator after seeing all this?
www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/the-universe-is-scary
It is really really scary to me what young people are being untaught at schools meaning universities but also regular school. There's an 11-year-old in my family who can barely read and I mean barely she is only now learning cursive cannot read cursive and I was reading and writing cursive at 8 years old! College students can't even think on their own they have no critical thinking skills due to liberal professors and I am not against liberal people but our young people need to be taught both sides of the same coin and they are not!
Archeological finds and real places mentioned in the Bible backs ups the Bible’s claims that it’s a book of history
Tell them about the prophesies about the Messiah in the Old Testament which were written hundreds of years before it happened.
The problem is the guy is not even listening.
How is we
It is amazing how someone can talk so much and be unaware of how ignorant his arguments are. I can only hope that I don't come across like that. Nonetheless this video is a wake up call to anyone seeking Truth.
@James G I know what he is saying but that is a lie. We all have access to history and the evidence is there if you look. Pretending that you cannot know history because you weren't there is just stupid. People choose to believe in the Big Bang but not Jesus. Give me strength.
MAny people in countries where the gospel never reach give testimonies of having had a vision about Christ multiple times continuously so that's proof at least to me he lives since i may self came to faith the same way!
Even his friend couldn't stick with him. 😂 I mean this is embarrassing. Everyone laughing at him and he still keeps on with his nonsense
Empirical proof is anything that can be tested with the 5 senses (taste, hear, touch, see, and smell). Not sure what the kid was thinking it was.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂✌
I haven't been this confused listening to someone in a while.
Lol, my girl Mayowa and her friend on their phones while the kid is chatting rubbish.
Pretty clear this young man has NOT researched for himself and then comes to debate someone older who HAS and talks as if the man is insane and his research is bogus ..well then show how he's bogus prove it because he's giving you evidence to why he beleives and your are not
The young man should go to a secular history professor at his fine university and ask him is what he teaches fact and if so how does he know. Forget about God and Jesus for a moment but just listen to what tests the history professor uses to prove historical facts. I’m pretty sure the tests would be very similar to Cliffe’s 🤷♂️
This young man has so many holes in his theory, I could put a fat elephant through it, however, if cliff gets more time to talk to him, I really believe he would eventually believe in Jesus, I could just see it in him.
This man proof too much drugs circulated in campuses.
At about 13:00 minutes Cliffe seems to be making the assertion that if Jesus wasn't who he said he was ( the son of God who died for our sins), and that if you don't believe this then what is the purpose for living? As an atheist I have an amazing lust for life and purpose. I live for the sheer joy of living, seeing my family and friends, the interaction I have with them, seeing my football team win.. (and lose), music, movies, books, tv, internet, etc etc the pleasures in life far outweigh the downsides. I feel incredibly lucky to be alive and in a position to help others who are less well off via donating to charities and generally being kind to people. I would say to anyone, I can assure you, your life would not lose it's meaning and purpose if you didn't have Jesus in your life, if it helps you, all well and good, but it's certainly not essential. There are children in the poorest parts of India who have next to nothing, but they are full of Joy. Purpose is whatever you want it to be., it doesn't depend on Jesus.
The mere fact that you and I spent 30 min watching this video proves we believe there is more than what our eyes can see and we long for it. Under atheism, Jesus is fake and that's the end of the story...however we still bothered to watch it! Note, the message of salvation is a gift to humankind and we are completely free to reject.
grasuh I like to hear Cliffe's thoughts on Jesus, and i don't agree with him. Cliffe is an excellent speaker to be fair, we are all entitled to our opinions. What if I were to tell you I think I am more moral than Jesus grasuh?, If I had the power that Jesus supposedly had, I would ensure that a place of eternal torment would not exist, If Jesus has this power to remove the concept of Hell, then I believe he is immoral in not doing so. It's my firm belief that no sentient being deserves such an infinite punishment, not even Hitler, Stalin or whoever. I saw on the news today the courageous American who went out to Syria to help giving aid and assistance to those who needed it, while over there he converted to Islam. Isis terrorists beheaded him yesterday. Now according to Christianity, because Islam rejects Christ as their saviour, he will be sent to eternal hell ( so I'm told by so many Christians). That to me is immoral. How can that be a moral act, to send *anyone* to hell?
bonnie43uk All the joys and pleasures you experience in this life are all a gift from God. When people reject God and after death enter their final state, all those gifts cease to exist, all that's left is despair and sorrow. You may believe that no one deserves Hell but that's because you don't understand the true *holiness* of God. God is a God of love, but he's also a God of justice. Let me try and put it in terms of human justice. If I punched a bum on the street, I could probably get away with it. If I punched my boss I'd lose my job. If I punched a police officer, maybe I'd spend a week in jail and pay a big fine. If I managed to punch the President, I would go to prison for a long time! Now it's the same exact action, but why did the penalties change?...It depends on the object of your offence. The greater the authority, the more severe the punishment. So what is the proper penalty for offending an infinite, perfect, holy, eternal God?...It's called Hell.
Btw, Hell is locked from the inside, God doesn't really send anyone to Hell, we send ourselves when we willfully reject His free gift and provision for salvation.
fellowservant34 Hi fellowservant34, yes, absolutely, what crimes and misdemeanors we commit here on earth we pay the consequences depending on the severity of our actions. That makes perfect sense, as did your punching scenario. It's something we can all understand. What doesn't make sense to me is a person here on earth who lets say rejects Jesus's "gift" of eternal salvation, because, unlike you, he didn't believe the stories of Jesus, they lacked credibility, I'm probably talking about myself. Now when I die, because i rejected Christ ( which i do), my punishment for that rejection is to spend 900 trillion billion years in hell, and when I've completed that sentence ( which is beyond any human's grasp of time btw), when those years are finally up, i get told i must spend another 900 trillion billion years of hell. And so it goes on. Stop and think about that for 5 minutes and hopefully you will see how absurd it is. I have lived a fairly mundane life, I haven't killed anyone, I've not deliberately mistreated anyone, my parents raised me to respect others. I have lived my life doing the best i can. I did steal a bottle of Coca Cola from a shop in 1973, now I'm sure you're not telling me that deserves eternal punishment. Even you would think that absurd. As I've said in other posts, the absurdity from the Christian viewpoint is this. Had Hitler in his final days in his bunker, realized his terrible errors, broke down and wept, and *genuinely* begged forgiveness and asked Jesus to forgive him for all his crimes, Christian doctrine tells us that he would go to heaven. While my genuine doubts over the credibility of the bible and my honest rejection of Christ sends me to eternal hell. A place where I would not even dare to send Hitler for eternity.He died a broken man, his dreams of a German super empire in ruins, let that be the end of him, there is no need for us to be pernicious towards him and ensure he is tortured forever in hell. I could even say forgive him.
***** Hi again Funk, I do not believe in heaven or hell, I was merely putting myself in the hypothetical position of having Gods omniscience, omnibenevolence etc. Surely an afterlife without this "gnashing and wailing of teeth" as Jesus described it, is better than one with it, especially one that we're told is eternal. As i said trillions of years of hell is something that none of us can possibly imagine, it's beyond our comprehension. If God has the power within him to do away with this hell, but he chooses not to, then, yes, I believe in a hypothetical situation, if i had his supernatural powers, i would banish the concept. Nobody deserves that sentence, no matter how badly they have behaved in their life.
I seen this video several times this was one of those occasions where Cliff should have been more aggressive.
Cliffe sometimes lets the other person talk themselves into a hole they dig themselves into and then try to get out of it when he shows them basic logic. The person will then start talking even more using word salad and digs themselves even further into a hole. Sometimes just letting a person speak while you listen calmly is a wise thing to do.
Cliff vs Beevis and Butthead on the Historicity of Christ. Guess which one won the debate?
The thing that gets me is that its impossible to reash,reach, that God has not prepared their heart and mind ,by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.They cannot receive it.it is inaccessible to them.God already knows if that person has a contrary mind..I believe in Jesus method.speak the truth,,after that,whomsoever will,to him that has spiritual ears let him hear,and to him that has spiritual eyes let him see.Those prepared from the foundation of the world will receive the message unto eternal life. The mockery won't no matter what.They just argue in circles,you can prove everything absolutely. And they will still reject it because they love darkness and hate God.