I did a bad job of explaining the part at 4:16 about shooting to 1,000 yards. On most scopes, it won't make any difference. However, on some scopes like the one I'm using in this video, they only allow one rev of elevation adjustment. It's stopped at the top and bottom of the rev even though the scope has more adjustment available. So it's applicable on this scope but not on most scopes.
For me it depends where I’m hunting and what I’m hunting, in dense bush it’s 100, but for most of time it’s 200 but I make sure I know my ballistics and verify my hunting range that I would shoot at.👍
@@steveburlingame1935 yeah I think I get that every time I leave a comment on backfire. He's mentioned it a while ago it's total bull crap. Been going on for quite a while.
Unless you are limited to a specific range such as a known distance competition like a 1k yd match, or the scope is a fixed power optic like a 4x, zeroing at anything other than 100 is a bad idea. Obviously if the optic won’t let you dial past a certain mark that changes the situation as well. The reason why you should always zero for 100 is every adjustment is up. If the target is closer than 100 your hold is *UP*. If the target is beyond 100, you still go *UP* to make the correction, no matter if you dial or use hold over.
I think it depends where you live. I choose 100 yard zero. Where we hunt in TN we never even get shots past 50 yards normally. People out West may commonly shoot 2-300 yards.
@@tylertapp131 a 5.56? I assume its an AR15. You zero at 25yds. You aim center mass at 100yds and youll land head shots, and when shooting at 300yds youll land center mass aiming center mass. Thats assuming you have a 16" barrel.
I've sighted in at 50yards for 30+years and have 0 issues hitting what I'm aiming at. Never dial the scope for a shot either. 50 yard sight in with my 7mm allows me to hit without adjustment out to roughly 300 after that I just aim higher accordingly. Cross hairs on top of a deers back at 500 yards puts the bullet in the vitals.
I'm 66 years old and have started hunting way before range finders were used for hunting, and I have always sighted my 30/06 in at 2" high at 100 yards, shooting 165 grain Nosler partitions. When I check zero at 200 it is dead nuts on, at 300... 7" low. If someone can explain to me why this doesn't work please do so... I might add that there was nothing he said here that is likely to change my mind.
Robert Carey we are cut from same cloth. Army taught me long ago you will sight in closer and hold under or shoot a certain range that matches the trajectory. 200 make more since to me for 30 cal but that’s JMHO.
It seems to me if you shoot the same ammunition with the same gun probably every year. You have probably been shooting that weapon for a very long time. It's just an extension of your hand at this point. If you are like most guys you probably hunt the same area or the same piece of property as well so you know it like the back of your hand you know your ranges. So with a familiar rifle familiar bullet familiar terrain of course you're going to shoot dead nights every time. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Many years ago my dad taught me to zero a hunting rifle at 25 yards. Yes, 25 yards. That way there isn't much room for error, wind drift, etc. Not only that but if you use a graduated target you can do it with one round. No point in shooting a group, even a lousy rifle is gonna essentially put them through the same hole at that range. Most of the time that'll translate to an inch or two high at 100, pretty close to dead on at 200, and a little low at 300. Of course a person needs to actually shoot at those ranges to build confidence and know for certain where they're hitting, like he described with the milk jugs, I also like to shoot at milk jugs at various ranges for the same reasons he stated. To be honest, the people I've always seen missing and wounding game, are the ones who spend way too much time cranking on their scope adjustments, and not nearly enough time building the skills to hit a target first time every time with the zero they already have.
Same here in euro. We used to do 100m and holdover since you knew the size of the animal and drop but now what I do is sight at 100m +5cm a dead 200m zero
Sight in at 100. Dial to 2 MOA high while hunting. If for some reason, I had a shot at 300+ out east...I'm going to redial anyway...or let it walk. I have stopped using scopes that do not have a zero stop for this very reason. Quick and easy to get back to the starting point.
Capped turrets 200-250 yard zero. If you dial then 100. 100 is just so easy to check in camp compared to 200. Great info in this vid. We see eye to eye alot. I also am a huge fan of the backcountry hunting podcast and gunwerks podcast. Great info and keep up the good work!!
There is no difference between a 100 yd zero and a 200 (50) yd zero if you know how to adjust your turret. With a 50/200 yd zero you adjust less to get to 400 than if you start at 100. Otherwise it’s just a different point of reference initially.
I dont understand that 100y zero for hunting. My setup is in mils, so i work all the way in metric units but the same can be done with moa, inches and yards. my 300 win has a 220M zero. For this i need to be 5cm high at 100M or 4cm high at 50M. This not "about 1.5" high at 100y" it is precisely 5cm high at 100m or 4cm at 50M. so knowing this i can precisely zero my rifle at the 50M or 100M range, the same as you do with a 100y zero. Then when you want to shoot further distances with your 100y zero, you need a drop table for the different distances, and you need to learn them or carry a drop chart. I have the exact same thing for my 220M zero. 300m is 0.5 mils, 350 is 0.9 / 600M is 3.2mils etc. there’s no guessing involved, it’s as accurate as starting form a 100y zero. except it’s a lot faster as you don’t have to dial for shot out to 300M
The Zero doesn't really matter, but should match the most likely Shot potential. Probably most influenced by the shooter ability. Also depends on your cartridge and bullet. No matter where I sight my gun in, I always make an elevation chart, showing what the zero is out to what I am comfortable shooting at (in ideal conditions). Also as you pointed out...practice is key in hunting situations. A tip a will share, is to get a bore sight. Check your scope with it once you have it dialed in, and take it with you on your hunts. If you drop your gun or even if it may have had a rough trip, you can take out your bore scope and see if it isn't right where it should be. Sometimes there isn't time to check your rifle on a range the night before you hunt. This has served me well for many decades of hunting all over the world, and most of it with a long range pistol. ;-)
I do what the GREATEST gun scribe of all time taught me. Most rifles are 2 to 3 in. high at 100. PBR 's are usually between 275 to 300. No thinking involved. High shoulder hold at 350 and backing at 400. Works for me.
A 175 grain match king shot from .308 at 2410 fps has an MOA wind constant of 10 to 1000 yards meaning a full value 10mph wind would only displace that bullet 4 inches at 200 yards In other words, for many modern cartridges wind inside 300 yards is moot.
@@charlesludwig9173I don’t think his point is that it will affect you inside that range but that you could have an inaccurate zero that could throw you off significantly for longer shots
@@autodidacticartisan I used to Post contact like this but TH-cam didn’t like me mix it up and dinged me pretty bad back in the day. In fact a lot of my contact is still downplayed because of it
Love the video but I have to disagree. I use the 1”-1 1/2” high @100 for years. Disclaimer I don’t shoot much past 300 yards. But I use the same method on the prairie dog fields. I see the big problem as the loss of Nikon and the BDC scopes and ballistics software is gone and going away. I’ve used it in the field for years and it works amazing!!! I don’t know what will happen when the program and it’s scopes go away! I’ll have to rebuy everything!😥
I have brought up on 4- 5 other channels that Elmer Keith recommended sighting in 1/4 inch left at 100 yards to allow for bullet yaw in a right hand twist barrel. There has never been a comment, rebuttal or retort. That advice has served me well. I'm 62. It makes a difference. I understand you had a left to right wind. JMHO. Thanks.
You talked about your wandering zero. In my experience, nearly all rifles have that. I run an AI-AT with Night force optic ($7500 gun) for work. I shoot a 3 round group out of it every week and It wanders up to an inch from week to week, usually less. The gun I had before this one was a Remington 700 PSS and it did the same thing. Engineers and manufacturers are getting better at keeping tighter tolerances all the time, but keep in mind that they are called tolerances for a reason. It's because they're not perfect. It is possible that there is a .0001 variable in your sig cross and vx3 setup. That's all it would take to get a half an inch at 100 yards. What you do is shoot several groups over the course of several weeks and find the center of all of them and zero for that. Then as your zero moves around, it will move around the X and you will never be very far from center. Don't get in the habit of chasing your zero, it will drive you nuts.
Exactly! I completely agree. Would also like to add with your comment that the environment will always change that zero slightly. Wind, altitude, temperature, even what time of the day you are shooting vs sighted in. You’ll go crazy chasing that zero because it’s always off just a touch.
@@1776carpediem that’s exactly the first thing that came to mind when he said that. Temp, humidity, barometric pressure, elevation would alter zero a little.
I think that the point blank range is great if thats your acceptable accuracy within the range that you know that your going to shoot at. I find that if your target is outside of that area, then trying to figure and remember holds will be more difficult. With a 100 yd zero( if thats what you need), you'll always go up, not down and up. For combat I think a 300 zero makes sense. But that is of course just my way of seeing it. 👍
Very informative video. Thanks. I sight in for 100 yards. I created a dope card using my ballistics app to calculate MPBR for 2", 3", 6", 10" 18", 24" target size. This is rifle specific, load specific, environment specific. Example, for my 300 Win Mag with 180gr Berger I sight in at 100 yards, My MPBR for a 10" target size (deer) tells me to adjust turret elevation 3.73" (or hold over) for 316 yard far zero with MPBR of 373 yards. Most of the time I don't even need to mess with the turret because if I know my target size beforehand I set the scope prior to going into the field.
I had VX5 on my Sig Cross 308 as well for a while. I belive thats what your using as well. It ended up being the scope not keeping constant zero. I had to send it back to Leupold to get looked at, they repaired it and sent it back. Now it works fine. I did some research and found that has been a common issue with some of the VX5's. I also have to say, huge fan of your videos and content. Keep up the great work.
I always use 300 yards as my long range zero. Here's the difference though, once you've worked up a load, go to JBM Ballistics or something similar and run your load in their trajectory calculator. I do this and then print out that card it gives as my 0-1500 yard adjustments on my 7mm Mag. For other shorter range calibers I use 1000 or 500 or 200, like for my hornet. The point is, once you have that, you know how high your bullet should be striking at 100 yards to judge this. So if I zero at 100 yards and my card says it should be 4" high at 100 yards for example, then you have your "true windless" 300 yard zero. Just a thought. ;) I have a range with 300 yards and good berms, so it's not too hard to find a calm day to test also. *** could be your powder temperature sensitivity also***
I think the confusion (and argument) comes from misunderstanding the two senses in which a rifle can be "zeroed." One is the calibrating the POA/POI to particular distance so avoid the need for adjusting turrets or holding off/over/under. But what we're really trying to do is calibrate the POA /POI for ALL distances, not just one distance. That means we need a closer reference to ensure the zero is as close to true as possible, and not skewed by wind or by ammo MV variability. Let's say you zero at 50y. Your POI and POA are precisely aligned. You should now be able to send a couple rounds to 100y to verify that the drop is exactly as predicted by your app inputs (atmospherics, scope height over bore, MV, BC, etc). Send some to 200 to verify if you want. The point here is that once you have a precise calibration, you can easily set your elevation to be whatever distance you want it to be. And if you "zero" at 50, then offset to create a "compensated zero" at 200y, you'll have a much tighter and more reliable zero than if you just shot at 200y. This of course assumes your turrets track and the scope is repeatable. If you have one that doesn't, then zeroing closer to your max range might be advisable. The old Nikon app used to use separate inputs for "zero distance" and "target distance" which is really useful. It could tell you how high to zero at 50y if you wanted to be on at 100 or 200. And if you want to maximize MPBR, it becomes a simple exercise of adjusting your elevation reference to whatever distance gives that MPBR. This will be the distance where the height of the bullet's trajectory becomes tangent to (but doesn't exceed) the radius of your vital zone "tube" that Jim references. If you use a 6" vital zone, the MPBR will give a trajectory where the bullet *just* approached 3" above LOS but no higher. And then it hits the MPBR as it falls out the bottom of the bottom 3" half of your zone. The best approach (IMO) is to learn your drops for your preferred load and accurately range the target. Ultimately, there's no substitute knowing your DOPEs and being able to apply them. And then it frankly doesn't matter whether your elevation turret is set to align the crosshairs at 100, 200, or whatever. You'll know your craft and be able to make it work regardless.
Yeah I don't have much experience here but I don't use the terminology in that way. I "sight in" my rifle at 100 yds, but then I "zero" it at 200 and check it at that distance. But I'm out west and 200+ yard shots (mule deer, pronghorn, elk although I've never had an elk tag) are common.
i like your description of MPBR zeroing.... that is what i am trying to do with my 300wm. as you mentioned, there are many dependencies for it - barrel length, twist rate, cartridge loading, bullet weight, etc.
Sighting in at your close zero should be followed up by verifying that it hits point of aim at your far zero. Let’s assume your scope rings are .2” higher than you thought. You’re one of those guys that sights for a 6” mpbr (way too big) so your close zero is around 25 yards. Your rifle will shoot 2.4” higher at 300 yards than you thought, add in the 3”-5” group an MOA rifle will produce in field positions and that bullet is now going 5” higher than you planned. Sure check it at 100 to see it’s shooting where your ballistic program says but that’s not always correct either. The best way to sight for mpbr is to check that the elevation is bang on for your far zero.
@@Trythis837 yes. But also important to recognize not every scope and rifle combination has a near and far zero. If you zero at trajectory apex, you’ll have only one zero.
@@G5Hohn that’s impossible. Every rifle has to have a near and far zero. Well I suppose you could theoretically find a trajectory apex and cut into the very top of it but man alive that would take some very precise math. I can’t do anything with my ballistic calculators to get the near and far zero closer than 4 yards apart. I suppose technically if you kept cutting that distance down you could find the apex but then again that 75-90 yard zero range the apex is in is probably the worst distance to zero a rifle at that there is, so is anyone going to be sighting in there?
My first trip to the deer fields was in 1975 with my Grandfather. He shot one rifle and one load for everything! Varmints on the farm, coyote and deer. 30-06 150 Winchester. He zeroed at 200 " 200 hundred paces then" and learned his holdover for distance and wind. I shoot 8mm Mauser 180 Nosler Ballistic tip or 180 Hornady GMX zeroed at 200. I too have learned my hold over for distance and wind. This is my only hunting rifle for everything I hunt, Coyote, Hogs, Deer, Antelope, Sitka, Goats, Sheep, and Axis deer. I use a scout scope. No fancy adjustable this or that. I feel we are loosing a whole generation of rifleman that haven't learned how to shoot there rifle and given load. There is too much reliance on technology to improve your "skill" as a marksman and hunter. I learned my hold overs as an Infantry solder, just as my father and Grandfather did in there respective Units during Vietnam and WWII. What we learned then definitely carries over to the hunting fields. If you're only purpose is to hunt and harvest at long range, past 300 yards. I don't see much hunting skills,spot and stalk being used . To close my rant, a 200 yard zero with a 6" kill zone is perfect. A deer size animal at 300 yards, aim for the top of his back above the shoulder and he is going down!!
I spent lots of time practicing my first rifle $299 Ruger American 243 with a cheap scope Bushnell Banner dusk till dawn and I haven't missed a target soda can size or hunting a small game or bid game headshot from 0 to 300 yards for the past years. It's all about practice and know your rifle
the point he is making though is that zeroing at a longer distance will not give you a true zero because of wind. yes learning how to hold for distance and wind is important but that is not the point he is making
I never thought about wind drift on a long zero, but I live in an area where most deer are taken within 50 yards. I would never shoot a bullet that I didn't know the trajectory of though. I like math and precision, so I disagree that it's poor form to zero high at 100 yards to get a 200 yard zero. The math should be backed up with real world testing after the zero though. You can zero high at 100 and shoot to 200 and see if the elevation is right, and the windage seem correct for the given wind direction. I do love these geeky videos though!
The wind thing is overblown. Yes if you go zero in 20 mph winds that is not good and will effect zero but anyone with a brain isnt going to zero a rifle in those conditions. Even with a 90 degree 5 mph wind at 200 its only about an inch of drift as long as your cartridge of choice isnt something like a 45-70.
That is the way I sight in. Depending on caliber, you determine how high the shot needs to be at 100 to be dead on at 200. Then sight in and confirm at 200.
@@Nick-sx6jm I agree, the main reason I'll be sighting in at 100 yards is that I don't have a place to shoot 200 yards. open country hunting and forest hunting is so different there will always be these issues that effect one more than the other. It seem that Jim doesn't do forest hunting enough to take it into consideration. I wish I had wide open plains to shoot.
Since 1992 I have been shooting 7mm Mag here in Australia, I zero at 200 metres and never shot anything beyond 300 metres, so I for my hunting it works just fine and never used a rangefinder either. Cheers from down under.
Always sighted in at 100 yards, about 3" above bullseye. Had a 30-06, 30-30, and 35 Remington. Last two drop about 6-7" at 200 yds, and 30-06 drops that much at 300. Longest shot I ever took on a buck has been 70-80 yards. I have passed on bucks at 400-500 yards because it was too far. I passed on bucks at about 60 yards because that's too far for me with my bow. Get closer. Edit: if you can't accurately measure 100 yards on a slight slope, use a rangefinder with an angle compensator. It will let you know when you are 100 horizontal yards away.
You are 6 to 7 inches low at 200 by sighting in at 100 instead of sighting in at 200 and being 7 inches low at 300. You're making it harder on yourself with the 100 yard zero. Especially shooting a 30 cal.
@@200130769 , I said that I sighted in at 100 yards about 3" above the bulseye. That puts my groups at 3" high at 100 yards. It's called Point Blank Zero. With the 30-30 and 35 Remington out to 200 yards and the 30-06 out to 300 yards I can center the crosshairs on a deer's heart/lung area and squeeze the trigget. Even if I miss the heart I get a double lung shot.
@@200130769 reasoning like this everyone should zero his rifle at 1000 yards.. if he zeroes a rifle shopting a non flat trajectory cartridge at 200, at 100 the bullet will be too high
I've just found your channel today, keep up the good work, I like your personality, your content and your environment. You got yourself a new subscriber.
25 yard zero works too. Removes all wind issues, and you can get your zero absolutely dead center. You will need to test your particular load at various ranges, but the .243, 6.5, and .270 can be aimed center mass on a coyote out to 300 yards or so. I’m too cheap for range finders and adjustable turrets, so this works for me
With flatter shooting magnums or say a 22-250, I sighted in 1.5 inches high at a 100 yds. I also always used a fixed power 6x Leopold scope on all my rifles. Not enough magnification for prairie dogs at four hundred yds and too much for an elk at 15 yds, but it is how you can get off a shot fast. The trajectory/rangefinder is automatically, instantly computed from the brain. (with of course, lots of shooting and hunting experience).
The end of the video is some really good advice especially for new hunters like myself. Best way to simulate what it takes out in the field to hit vitals on the first shot. Thank you for recommending that with milk jugs. I have not had my first hunt yet and will definitely be trying this out to truly ensure I have what it takes to harvest an animal respectfully on first shot.
I really enjoy watching your videos because they offer sound & unbiased pros/cons of whatever subject your video is about. I am not a long range tack driver, but after some bad shots on a whitetail several years ago I became somewhat obsessed with accuracy. I'm one of the ones that utilizes a ~200 yard zero. Actually the long range zero depends on the caliber (200 yards for .270 or 300 yards for 7mm Weatherby). However I don't shoot high and just call it good. I look at the ballistics of my chosen round (I'm very picky about ammo I shoot. Unless I can't find to purchase, I shoot exclusively Nosler Partitions). I look at the long range ballistics of whatever cartridge I'm shooting and use the point of impact at 100 yards (whether 1.4" for .270 or 3.1" for 7mm Weatherby) as my benchmark. The reason I do this is because for either cartridge I have the same point of aim out to 250 yards for the .270 and 350 for the 7mm Weatherby. What are your thoughts on this?? And what about that wandering zero? How can that be mitigated? It's a confidence killer!
The wandering zero can be fixed by using a hard gun case, but the rifle has to be stabilized INSIDE the case as well. I use old t-shirts for this, folding them enough to snugly grip the stock and fore end.
But, are you stabilizing the arm INSIDE the case? Heavy-barreled arms have a way of shifting even inside a hard case, and the resulting vibration of hard matter on hard matter can shift the zero. It’s happened to me, so that’s why I’m emphasizing the point. The evil devil is indeed in the details.
@@chriskourliourod1651 Yes. It stays inside an expensive Plano hard gun case that was around $300 and very heavy. Inside that case the rifle lays inside a very tightly cut out piece of foam. Unless I'm missing something I highly doubt it's the case. I definitely see the point you're making though! When you speak of stabilizing the arm, I'm assuming you mean the barrel? Furthermore, I ended up sending the scope in to Leupold. After hearing back from them, they did quite a bit of work to the scope so I'm hoping the issue is fixed. I have to brag on Leupold because the whole process was relatively hassle free.
Zero at 100. If you want a 200 yard “zero” and you have a reliable scope with a good turret dial up to 200 when you leave the truck then you have the best of both worlds. Also it’s most likely not your rings but your leupold scope. A couple google searches will reveal that a wandering zero is very common on vx3 and vx5 scopes. Get a nightforce, trijicon, swfa, or a bushnell elite series.
Leupolds are very good scopes for the crowd that likes to set it at 200 and forget it. You have to spend serious bucks for a scope that tracks reliably when spinning turrets. Leupolds have never tracked as good as a Nightforce. They are lighter scopes with less robust erectors. There’s no free lunch.
I also don’t see how that’s any different than running ballistic software to determine how high you need to be at 100 for a 200 yard zero. Regardless it’s your duty to verify POI at various distances before taking shots at game at those distances.
I use a .243...I always sight it in 1 in high at 100 yards... and it's on at 200 yards... I do the same thing with my 22‐250....works GREAT.! And I always use the same ammo.
I always enjoy your videos; you made some excellent points in this video. I think that one can do an excellent job of zeroing their rifle, whether it is at 100, or 200. But no matter which way you do it, you have to know what you are doing. And, have a verified ballistic chart.
You can always chronograph your loads.. check a balistic chart.. sight in at 100 and then try shooting at 200 and 300 so you are more aware. I shoot coyotes with my 22-250. Im usually about 1,3/4 high at 100 which puts me almost right on at 300.. thats with a 50gr bk @4000fps
I like what you touched on at the end. I have a membership to a decent club with known distances to 400 yards. Most of my hunting rifles are shot at 200 yd. When friends want to "sight in" before season I encourage them to "practice" instead. Muscle memory is an amazing thing, practice will build confidence and reinforce the basics so you can focus on the variables. I do like your milk jug idea too. I have started shooting off sticks at the range before season because most of the time that's how I shoot in the field.
Good info in the video. I zero everything for 100 yrd only because it's simple and easy to do. I use my sub tensions for everything out to 300 and dial for any other distance past that. As for your wandering zero put a level on your scope. A level chamber, level scope and a level shooter will produce accurate groups at any distance.
Hey Jim, please give your thoughts on the following hybrid method as I can understand your negative points regarding accuracy of truly zeroing at 200 yards... This method assumes you have a chronograph & good ballistic data. You start with chrono data & get your avg FPS, afterward note your height over bore and run the numbers through 4DOF or another calculator with a stated 200 yard zero. You view the tables to see what your elevation is in inches at 100 yards with the stated 200 yard zero in the calculator. Do your zeroing shooting at 100 yards and shooting high to whatever your ballistic calculator states based on your ballistics. Set that as your zero and then confirm with a couple 200 yard shots. Thoughts? I just did this for my 22" 7mm Rem Mag shooting Hornady Outfitter ammo with the new CX bullet and came out with 1.59" high at 100 yards.
If you have a range finder with Horizontal distance correction, you do not need a perfectly flat distance to shoot 200yds. It will account for the angle of the shot and give you the location where you experience 200yds worth of drop on the bullet.
I'm with you on the windage, though I think one could easilly alleviate the problem by dialing in windage at 100, and then dialing in the vertical axis at 200 without touching windage, then confirm windage at 100 again. In fact, I'd argue that if one is using a 200 yard zero, this is the "correct" way to do it. As a precision guy, I prefer to just do 100 yards and I agree completely with everything that you said here.
All it is, is knowing your DOPE and adjusting. But most people for a hunting application don’t take the time to learn what their rifle and ammo do at different ranges
So, I set my zero to 200 because the majority of the opportunities I get in the field are around 200 yards. I like knowing I’m only about 2” off from zero to 250 yards. I sight in 1.4” high at 100 yards (which takes the windage worry off the table). Then I verify my elevation at 200 (because as you said, every round is different and I like to know how much drop I’m really getting). Ultimately it comes down to preference. Anything over 250 yards I usually have time to dial in to make the shot. Anything under that I wanted the maximum accuracy with the least input because time is of the essence at that range. (And, my preference)
To me it depends on the distance you normally hunt.. I hunt close range ..usually 150 yards or under because of the dense wooded area is my most common range..
I feel that has a lot to do with it. Most of my shots out here are 200 to 600 yds. I personally use cartridges that line up with recommended foot pounds of energy on animals. Elk is recommended estimated1,400 foot pounds for ethical kill shots. I build and shoot rifles and cartilages at distances according to recommended energy values for each animal.
I used to always do 100 and now I do 200 and for me I like it but you discussed the draw backs, very well. I also do the exact same thing with water jugs. It's also great for new hunters or someone that doesn't shoot away from the bench very much. Great video.
If you are using mpbr instead of just using 200, check a ballistic calculator for the actual near and far distances. Near zero is usually in the 25-30 yard range. No need to worry about the wind. Zero at near and verify the far.
Standard US Army method. Probably works for most of us. At the very least, you get on paper more readily. I hesitate to think how long my 1993 Ft. Bragg zero would've taken had we done it on a KD. That old M16A1 was so messed up the gun would barely put rounds on the right edge at max windage, and they finally figured it was the gun. I zeroed the replacement in short order.
I've done both. Taken deer with both. If you work at it you can get good at either. I think it is personal preference. I now have a CDS VX5HD on my rem mag and it is definitely more precise especially past 300 and far more confidence inspiring.
Depending on caliber and velocity I sight in at a close range. For instance a .223 55 grain bullet at 3200 fps is sighted in dead on at 30 yards puts zero at 180 yards. 50 yards is +.75 , 100 yards is +1.75 , 150 yards is+1, 200 yards is -1, 250 yards is -4.5. This has worked for me for years without fail. Actually I use a Marlin sight in guide I acquired years ago. It's like a slide rule with many different calibers velocities and bullet weights.
Hi Jim, nice vid, I zeroed my 308W at 100m, I have my scope completely setup with all the clicks at different ranges upon 450m. In theory this is the way the to go. BUT found out in hunting situations, you do not always have the time to measure and dial in the scopes. Especially on smaller game like fox. I used to have a 243W which was zeroed at 200m with hot loads, back then I knew that everything which was within 200m was a clean kill, also the smaller critters. Due to laws in my country 243W is not allowed on game bigger then Roebuck. Therefor I’m now leaning a new rifle in 6.5 Creedmore, just a bit flatter shooting than 308W so I can zero at 200m and still be sure to make all shots to even the smallest ones, without having to make any adjustments or subtentions. For longer distances I would adjust with clicks. Basically I want to use a pipe of 2” vitals instead of the 6” you use in you vid.
As an example, using a Hornady Varmint Express 95g Vmax with a .365 Ballistic Coefficient 3300 fps muzzle, and a scope sight line 1.5" above the bore line, if you zero at 219 yards (200 meters), you will be 1.7" high at 125 yards, and will have dropped to 1" low at 240 yards ( 219 meters). If you sight in to 1" low at 219 yards (200 meters), your trajectory will stay within the 2" vital area from 10 yards to 200 meters. That 1" low at 200 meters sight in, would be a little more precise than 1" high at 109 yards / 100 meters sight in, because the trajectory tops out around 100 meters, while it is dropping pretty good by 200 meters.
I have hunted with .30-06 since I was a kid. My family has been hunting with .30-06 sine ww2. We usually stick to 180 or 168 grain rounds. We zero at 100yds because we hunt in the mountains and canyons of central idaho. We very rarely shoot out to 400 and the majority of the time our shots are less than 200.
With respect to wandering zero: try moving the bipod from the end of the hand guard tube to as close to the receiver as it will allow. The reasoning is that the gun is acting as a long beam from your shoulder to the bipod, with the mass of the gun acting at the beam center. Your body weight and weight of your left hand is also probably adding some extra bending. If you put the bipod at the middle of the gun, then there will be less span for bending and the bulk of the mass will be just above the bipod.
@@aviax7717 Well you're right, sort of. But there is still bending in the rest of the rifle and unless the scope is attached directly to the barrel itself, there will be a relative angular deflection between the barrel and the scope. Even if it's only .001 of a degree, for a 500yd shot = 500tan(.001) = .5yd = 1.5ft. The only way to minimize that - at least in my opinion - is to place the bipod directly under the rifle centre of mass. The only way to remove the barrel/scope combination from all outside influences - even if the barrel is floated - is to mount the scope directly to it, but then of course that brings on other problems. Of course, this is just my opinion on the matter.
The milk jugs is how my dad would get me ready for deer season growing up. That’s awesome you said that! Great videos brother! I bought a Sig Cross 6.5CM for deer season this year and I’m excited! God bless!
The "randomness" of zeroing high at 100 yards is the same as that which is introduced by dialing your scope to compensate for distance. Either your calculations for bullet drop are correct, and then both work or your calculations are incorrect and then both share the same errors. If you are sloppy and arbitrarily pick 1.5'' to zero high, then you are introducing error, but otherwise this is fundamentally the same procedure as calculating the compensation for a ranged shot.
You can still sight in your rifle to a 200 or even 300 yard zero (or preferably your actual far zero using MPBR) by firing at 100 yards. Knowing MV and BC of the bullet, I simply make sure that my group is X inches high at 100 yards. Firing 160 Woodleigh Weldcores out of my 6.5x55 SE at 2380 fps, I need to be 2.8" high at 100 yards in order for POA to be POI at 200 yards. It just so happens that in this case, my far zero (for that 6" vital zone) is 203 yards, so 2.8" - 3" high at 100 yards gets me close enough to a 200 yard zero that it doesn't really matter in this case. Let's change the rifle to my 280 AI, firing 160 gr Nosler Accubonds at 2950 fps, assuming a 6" target. For MPBR, I'd sight in at 2.6" (2.5" is close enough) to get me a far zero of 250 yards. I'd be 2.1" high at 200 yards, and 3.5" low at 300 yards. There is enough slop in the gears and variability in Muzzle Velocity, cartridge to cartridge out of the same box, that it isn't necessary for me to try and sight in my 6.5x55 *exactly* 2.8" high at 100 yards to achieve a 200 yard zero. That degree of precision is possible, but it's only useful in long range target shooting, not at common hunting distances from 0 to 300 yards. ***************************** edited to add this Even if a shooter's equipment can do the deed out to 300 yards doesn't mean the shooter should pull the trigger on a critter at that distance. Three common mistakes for newbs (and some guys who've been hunting a long while but never practiced shooting a lot) are: 1. a poor cheek weld 2. poor trigger control 3. poor breathing control Out to 200 yards, those 3 things aren't THAT big of a deal. At 300 yards, those 3 things in combination are enough to produce very inconsistent results downrange. Inconsistent enough that, IMO, it would be unethical of a hunter to take that long of a shot. If you're in this category of shooter, and you don't have the time to get better for the upcoming deer season, zero your rifle at 100 yards. For most modern, bottle neck cartridges (6.5CM, 270 Win, 280 Rem, 7mm Rem mag, 308 Win, and 30-06), a 100 yard zero will still get your bullet into the boiler room out to around 200 yards, which is as far as you should be shooting. So set her up at 100 yards and be done with it.
Awesome video I run 4 different calibers of rifles depending on how I feel in what season. I love hunting deer and elk and bear I Sign in all of my rifles at a 100 yd but I run is a second 0 device Depending on what type of prism you buy you can flip down what looks like A-scope cover but it's a glass prism and you can aim flat when you flip down this prism at 300 to 500 to 800 yd depending on which prism you get And what caliber your rifle is there only about 50 to $60 And out of my knowledge there is 3 different world militaries that use them for their snipers And they work, it's a great device you're hold over you really don't have it unless you're shooting past the prism and then you know sky's the limit at that point.
Well, I'm an old time farmer from MT, but if you are a shooter, hunter, or both, it seems almost impossible that you don't know the trajectory of your rifle with a particular bullet. If your trajectory is such that your bullet will strike 1.5 inches high at a 100 yards and then zero at 200 yards, then it's pretty dang easy to check your rifle at hunting camp with just a 100 yard range. With all of the ballistic charts, bullet information, chronograph equipment, etc. etc, any hunter that goes afield is at the least lazy, and at most, grossly negligent to not know your bullet trajectory. My gosh, most ballistic charts list all of that info, SD, BC, velocity, drop, drift, and probably who shot the bullet. MPBR is mandatory to know if you are presented with any "normal" range that is practical for your rifle, and your own personal ability. Unless you are shooting an ultra flat caliber, you're going to be guessing at that 340 yard shot. Much easier to know your MPBR, and quickly calculate how many more yards you have to allow for. Just me maybe, but it's worked personally for more than 6o years. I suppose if someone has more guns than will fit in the back of a pickup, and is used to having a computer in their back pocket, then do whatever floats your boat. I'm pretty used to my 300 h&h, haven't had a hungry winter yet.
I'm with you. I live in Huntington since I was 5 or 6 years old. I'm 55 years old grew up in West. Virginia have been living in Montana for a long time. And my freezer is always full. And these young kids with their new fancy . S*** Baffles, Me . I think they need to learn how to throw rocks before they learn how to shoot. How to shoot
I keep it simple. load development at 100 yards. (by the way it is an old 6mm model 788 in lefty bolt with a 4 power scope). once the load is verified, and i have a .3 moa at 100! I zero at 250. this puts me 3 inches high at 100. the reason for this is I live in Saskatchewan, And group hunters drive deer. I set up on a area where the deer escape too and the average shot is between 200 and 300. this is a lower elevation "bowl" surrounded by bush near a creek. they clear the bush and stop, giving a nice shot from the bipod....works every year!
I do this with all my rifles. I use a ballistic calculator for each cartridge to get a specific close range. The cartridge I use for my 06 I'm able to zero at 31 yards which is dead nuts at 200 yards. I live in the North West and hunt sage brush covered hills to pine covered mountains. 200 yard zero has never failed me. But, to each their own.
I have a 50 yard range at home and I have learned that most common none magnum center fire rifles with a dead on 50 yard zero are either dead on or very very close at 200 yards. And I verify this by shooting at our local range so I'm not just guessing.
Yes, MPBR takes some calculation, but it's a very practical way to sight in for hunting. I think it's too often misunderstood, and definitely underused.
I am constantly shooting my hunting rifle throughout the year but normally before big game season will take a bunch of clay pigeons, and said the various yardages and test my real limits it’s pretty much the same thing you explained just with a smaller target
My vortex diamondback tactical 4-16 stays zeroed from hot to cold (not extreme change) no drift on the scope at 100. Vortex rings too. But all my other scopes will drift. That rifle is in the truck year round in a soft case that folds out into a mat. Now my old redfield from the 80s on my 80s weatherby stays in the safe or goes in a hard case. Every year it’s a half inch left and half inch high every single year when sighted in for deer season. So every scope will be different, even two nightforce one after the next off the line can have a different direction of drift, or one won’t really have hardly any, the other may drift a lot. Great video a lot of good info.
If you look at your ballistic chart and sight in at the 50yd equivalent of 200yd zero verify it at 8:56 the range at 200 then it’s easy to verify at 50 yards when you get to where you are going
My hunting zero has always been about 2" high at roughly 100 yards. That puts my 7mm-08 on a paper plate out to about 350 yards. Our combat zero in the military was a 37 yard zero, usually due to the lack of a longer range to zero on. That gave roughly the same performance as the hunting zero. Pretty much point of aim out to just over 300 yards. The best shot I've taken was my Remington Sendero in 7mm-08 free standing in a snowstorm shooting uphill. Dropped an elk with one shot. Ranged it the next year and it was 460 yards. I'm in Utah where we rarely get a shot under 200 yards.. 300+ is pretty common.
At the land I hunt on we also have steel targets at 100 yard intervals out to 1160 yards. 160 yards from 1000 to 1160 because of the lay of the land. 100 yard zero is what we use. We all shoot with target style scopes and can easily make elevation adjustments. We get an idea of bullet drop with a ballistics calculator then fine tune it with actual shooting. Make yourself a D.O.P.E. sheet and then mostly worry about the wind at longer ranges.
Good video. Your explanation of MPBR using a pipe is a good way to visualize it. At 1:20, I would only clarify that you put "my scope exactly in the middle there" versus "my gun exactly in the middle there".
For wandering zero. Could your point of impact change with the suppressor coming on and off? Over time, the threads could wear and may require to turn the can more or tighter which may clock it differently; again over time. I'm sure you have multiple suppressors and each could have a point of impact as well as wear in differently. Thought two is barometric pressure and Coriolis. I sure most reading this are laughing at a Coriolis comment but if you zero toward the north and then shoot south; it may shift right enough to notice. Or vice versa while zeroed south and shoot north could shift impact left. If the gun shoots awesome at your normal range. Maybe consider when you find impact shift. Last Could be spin drift but less likely. Zero at 200 and then shoot to at 75 the group may sneak left and then out to 375 and be marginally right. I'm sure a more than a few ppl have had these ideas, I appreciate the videos and your doing awesome. Keep it up.
Again what a good video brother,I use SST 150 grain in 308,on dear and boy howdy it does a wonderful job, it's the best projectile for me to use on deer or hogs ,so accurate and hits like a freight train.
I always zero for 200 yards, but do so by shooting a target at 100 yards. I do this by aiming for the bullseye, but adjusting the scope based on wanting to hit 1.5 inches high (which is based on the ballistics chart for the ammunition I use). This takes away the need to judge the wind if you actually were shooting 200 yards (as stated in the video).
I totally agree with your statement on sight in on both. The only difference that I see is not only myself, but more importantly friends that hunt with one caliber only and actually know the drop . My neighbor has hunted with 270 his entire life (he's 58) He sights in at 1.5 high at 100 and puts meat in the freezer every year. Most people don't hunt with multiple calibers and even those that do are very aware of the bullet drop. Just my 2 cents.
Great points. I zero at 100 and generate a dope sheet with varying wind conditions then dial it in as necessary based on the range to see and wind meter. 100yds is nice as it's easy to calculate MOA.
My father always said 1.5 inches high at 100 yards. So I've always done that. He was a really good shoot. My uncle told me once my father could drive a nail at two hundred yards standing off hand.i remember checking zero once as a young adult. Not doing very good, he said, let me see it. Off hand sitting on a side by side he put it dead bull. For a 30 06 in practical hunting distance. I believe this is what his point was. Not match shooting or extremely long range. Just woods hunting. Occasionallya power line cut out. This was also long before range finders ( before your reply), you should probably know he was a sniper in the Marines.
Great point about the extra factors zeroing at 200yds. What I do is get a 200 yd zero at 50 yards so there’s less factors. You can also zero for 200 from 100yds as long as you know your ballistics and how low it should be impacting at 50/100 to be zeroed at 200. I still zero for 200 because like you said the MPBR.
I do agree though what you’re saying about being precise with your zeroing and making sure it’s correct and not just eyeballing it and end up wounding game cos you weren’t actually zeroed. With my 308 50 yd zero is a 200yd zero, so it’s easy to zero at 50 for 200. I also confirm my zero for 200 but like you mentioned, taking wind into consideration to make sure it’s actually zeroed.
You need to do a video about reverse ballistics. I find it fascinating. If you dont have a chrony, just shoot the gun zero at a known distance and then shoot a few ather distance and then go to the Hornady ballistic app. Punch in your data and scroll to the distance you shot, change the velocity input until it matches the distance you shot at. And wala you have your velocity, and it teaches you more about your gun and ammo. Great channel by the way.
I've always sited 3 inches high at 100 yards allowing a reasonable point blank range to 300 yards if shooting a reasonably flat trajectory cartridge. Not all scopes have exterior exposed turrets that allow you to dial up to range in an instant. Personally, I don't find that type of scope practical for hunting, although quite adequate for shooting at a range. If my groups are tight at 100 yards with windage centered and elevation above center at or close to 3 inches I'm good to go. This was the advise offered by hunters like Jack O'Connor and it has served me well. The presenter of this video makes a broad statement to suggest this type of sighting in, is responsible for wounded and lost animals. I would suggest that shooting beyond the capability of a bullets capable performance will leave more game wounded and unrecovered to die a slow death than staying within a practical range of shooting. It's one thing to extend your range by raising your cross hair up to the sholder line on an animal, which might allow you additional yardage, another thing to shoot several hundred yards beyond the capability of the bullet performance. Unless your range finder is calculating windage, you're still guessing when you have to alter your line of sight or begin to adjust your scope for elevated shots. Bullet performance degenerates very quickly beyond point blank ranges. Have I ever lost an animal? Sadly, yes. It has taught me to respect the limitations of bullet performance in relation to distance. If you are not close enough to induce hydrostatic shock, then you are dependent on the expansion of a wound channel. Beyond a certain distance,many bullets will behave as if they were full metal jacketed. Developing a small wound channel. Dead, but a very slow bleed out. Easily spooked if you show up 5 minutes later. Caveat: some bullets will peform better than others. They are not all equal. I'm not suggesting you don't sight in at 100 yards if that is your thing. Just suggesting that you do your research on the bullet you choose if you are intending to shoot at extended ranges. There are a lot of bullet choices for the enthusiast to extend their kill range. Not all bullets are the same. Each caliber presents different choices and all rounders are limited. Good luck with your hunt.
Sweet info! Been running a 100 yard zero for several seasons now. I won’t go back. I leave my gun at 1 moa while waking in area where I’ll get that 200 yard shot. It’s much easier and I feel I am more consistent and confident at my further shots
I’m sure the caliber matters, but in the Marine Corps we zeroed our M4s at 30 yards on a miniature version of an able target. That zero held all the way out to 300 yards before we had to adjust the rear sight for 500+ yards.
Not quite true. You first adjusted your rear aperture to your "sight-in" setting, then shot at the short range. After sighting in you changed your rear aperture back to its normal setting. Then, and only then, were you sighted in out to 300. Changing the rear aperture to its zero setting before sighting in at 25 meters, then changing it back to its battle setting afterwards, is what allows sighting in at the short distance.
hello Again... what is really needed is a combination range-finder/scope in which you can enter your rifle and cartridge params (twist-rate, barrel length, caliber, bullet weight, powder type, cartridge grains, etc.), and the scope/range-finder (with computer and rechargeable battery) will make all the adjustments for you so that you don't have to setup anything!! 🙂 -you just point your rifle at a target, hit a "calculate" button, the scope/range-finder auto calculates everything required to put crosshairs on the target at whatever distance... dream on!
Two part comments... First good job explaining the "Hunting" aspect of sighting in. I Guide and alot of guys get wrapped up in details that don't apply to their hunt or in many cases are details that tend to be well beyond their shooting skills and in the field use for the distances they are willing to shoot. 90% of my hunters are from the Mid West and East Coast and None of them are familar or willing to shoot beyond 400yds and most wont even attempt 300+yd shots. We in the West are familiar with our wide open spaces but those folks back east are freaked out about our wide open space and distances. The only thing I would mention about wondering zeros is consider altitude and weather. Density of the air and humidity seems to affect some rifles and not others. Those guys I get from FL or other similar elevations absolutely have to re-zero and shoot their rifles again... some say 6,000' + will cause changes and then potentially every 1,000' of gain after that it will behave differently. For those 300yd and in shooters this rarely is a big deal. For anyone shooting beyond that and maybe came from the mid west to 8,500' for an Elk hunt WILL see changes to their ballistics.... some ammo Mfrs can be called and they can give you the higher elevation data. Next - gallon water jugs... Excellent reactive targets. I always start the youth shooters out with water jugs. My brother and I use them for our kids to get their appropriate distances per hunt and the rifle they will use. We place 3 water filled gallon jugs at 300yds and then move them out in 50yds at a time. Whatever distance they can hit 3 rounds in a row without a miss is the distance they will be hunting at. Both of our kids have consistently shot to 500yds with the 6.5Grendel with first round hits and 3 in a row since they where 12yrs old.... trying to tell a hunter with some high dollar rifle, caliber, and optics that a 500yd shot is a do-able shot freaks them out. I explain its just a math problem with their correct zero, if they are zero'd correctly and know their hold overs or dial to's it can be done and they should practice it... but many back there simply just don't have open enough spaces to even practice! I encourage them to get water jugs too... the reactive targets are great encouragement for kids and it holds their attention and helps them focus and be rewarded with a reactive target when they do the fundamentals correctly. I guess lastly - there is a big difference between zeroing on a bench and "shooting" from sticks either standing, sitting, or prone and forget asking them to make a 200yd freehanded shot on the quick and stay inside a 6"-8" circle. But I did it growing up with a Lever Action 30-30 since I was 12-18yrs old. Most modern Hunters simply are not familiar enough with their rifles to get optimal performance out of it and because of ammo costs & availability, +magnum calibers, never shoot it enough or in a variety enough of positions to know what they can actually do with it.
If you know your rifle, round, and reticle kentucky windage has always worked for me at ranges out to 500 with a 100 yards zero. A lot of it depends on your skill set and familiarity with the rifle your using.
Wind drift at 200 yards is minimal and if the wind is effecting your shot at 200 yards it’s a very strong wind that would make any experienced shooter think twice about pulling the trigger (think storm conditions). Zeroing at 200 yards takes the guesswork out of making a quick shot when time is fleeting. I’m shooting a 7mm Rem Mag, 150grain Barnes, usually at Elk out west.
I’m 67 and done a bit of hunting in the west. I’ve only ever shot a couple bull elk within 100 yards. But every deer and antelope with a rifle I’ve taken has been at least 250 yards. I never worried about spooking antelope because I knew that at 250-300 yards the antelope would stop and look back. So I’ve always been comfortable with my .270 dead on at 250-300 yards depending on what weight bullet I was using. I agree that at longer range wind is more of an issue than distance. Oh and nice touch blaming your wife on taking the knives as you segued into the commercial!
I can get low winds in summer - but that introduces the problem of hunting 40 degrees cooler than when I zeroed the rifle... I check zero pretty often - changes in elevations etc etc.
Depends on gun/cartridge & where/what yer hunting. I sight in @ 200 most times here for hunting with fast calibers& 30-30 @ 100 works for me here. You can't just say what range we have to sight in at, we do what works for us.
I live here in NM, we have all our hunting rifles set for a 200 yd zero. Dad's 30/06, brothers 50 cal muzzleloader, and 300 Weatherby Mag. Wife's 7mm Rem Mag. My CVA Paramount 45 cal muzzleloader, 243 win and 300 Remington Ultra Mag. For us it makes better sense to have all rifles set up the same in case ones rifle is messed up. The 45/70's and 30/30's are set for 100 yd zero.
I shoot 2 at 100 for elevation and let it cool, then 2 at 200 for horizontal/windage. 5th round is always dead centre at 100. Worked for me for years. Dope is spot on out to 1000 with ballistics app.
Jim, I had the same problem with the same scope. Got to Texas for a pig hunt and the scope was shooting 5 and a 1/2 inches high at 85 yd. I had zeroed at 200 yd at the range Before leaving but had played with the Elevation at 300 yd. And my last 3 shots were higher at the same setting than at 200 yd.but I ran out of time to fix it before getting on the plane. It was like the reticle had finally broken free on the last 3 shots.
Excellent video an it echoes what I do. I zero at 100. Then I dial elevation for range if going past 100 yards. I like the Christmas tree reticle I have because I use to to range when the rangerfinder scans off a leaf at 30 yards, which is not my farthest shot. My intention is not to hit somewhere in the 8 inch pie plate. I aim to hit dead center of that plate.
I did a bad job of explaining the part at 4:16 about shooting to 1,000 yards. On most scopes, it won't make any difference. However, on some scopes like the one I'm using in this video, they only allow one rev of elevation adjustment. It's stopped at the top and bottom of the rev even though the scope has more adjustment available. So it's applicable on this scope but not on most scopes.
For me it depends where I’m hunting and what I’m hunting, in dense bush it’s 100, but for most of time it’s 200 but I make sure I know my ballistics and verify my hunting range that I would shoot at.👍
Someones trying to scam me on here saying i won a prize
Cool….one day I hope to shoot a 1000….600-800 I’m ok a 1000 that’s a long poke
@@steveburlingame1935 yeah I think I get that every time I leave a comment on backfire. He's mentioned it a while ago it's total bull crap. Been going on for quite a while.
Unless you are limited to a specific range such as a known distance competition like a 1k yd match, or the scope is a fixed power optic like a 4x, zeroing at anything other than 100 is a bad idea. Obviously if the optic won’t let you dial past a certain mark that changes the situation as well.
The reason why you should always zero for 100 is every adjustment is up. If the target is closer than 100 your hold is *UP*. If the target is beyond 100, you still go *UP* to make the correction, no matter if you dial or use hold over.
I think it depends where you live. I choose 100 yard zero. Where we hunt in TN we never even get shots past 50 yards normally. People out West may commonly shoot 2-300 yards.
What's your point of impact at 25 yards with a 100 yard zero? I'm lookin to do this on one of my 556 guns.
I agree with whoteewho
@@tylertapp131 a 5.56? I assume its an AR15. You zero at 25yds. You aim center mass at 100yds and youll land head shots, and when shooting at 300yds youll land center mass aiming center mass. Thats assuming you have a 16" barrel.
Lived in ontario and alberta…ontario never past 65-80 yards yesterday i missed two wolves at 400 yards. So much more land out west
Seen them at 1500 little black dots thar moved ….
I've sighted in at 50yards for 30+years and have 0 issues hitting what I'm aiming at. Never dial the scope for a shot either. 50 yard sight in with my 7mm allows me to hit without adjustment out to roughly 300 after that I just aim higher accordingly. Cross hairs on top of a deers back at 500 yards puts the bullet in the vitals.
I'm 66 years old and have started hunting way before range finders were used for hunting, and I have always sighted my 30/06 in at 2" high at 100 yards, shooting 165 grain Nosler partitions. When I check zero at 200 it is dead nuts on, at 300... 7" low. If someone can explain to me why this doesn't work please do so... I might add that there was nothing he said here that is likely to change my mind.
With you. Hold center with confidence out to 230. Dialing is for greater range and time.
Robert Carey we are cut from same cloth. Army taught me long ago you will sight in closer and hold under or shoot a certain range that matches the trajectory. 200 make more since to me for 30 cal but that’s JMHO.
It seems to me if you shoot the same ammunition with the same gun probably every year. You have probably been shooting that weapon for a very long time. It's just an extension of your hand at this point. If you are like most guys you probably hunt the same area or the same piece of property as well so you know it like the back of your hand you know your ranges. So with a familiar rifle familiar bullet familiar terrain of course you're going to shoot dead nights every time. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Many years ago my dad taught me to zero a hunting rifle at 25 yards. Yes, 25 yards. That way there isn't much room for error, wind drift, etc. Not only that but if you use a graduated target you can do it with one round. No point in shooting a group, even a lousy rifle is gonna essentially put them through the same hole at that range. Most of the time that'll translate to an inch or two high at 100, pretty close to dead on at 200, and a little low at 300. Of course a person needs to actually shoot at those ranges to build confidence and know for certain where they're hitting, like he described with the milk jugs, I also like to shoot at milk jugs at various ranges for the same reasons he stated. To be honest, the people I've always seen missing and wounding game, are the ones who spend way too much time cranking on their scope adjustments, and not nearly enough time building the skills to hit a target first time every time with the zero they already have.
Same here in euro. We used to do 100m and holdover since you knew the size of the animal and drop but now what I do is sight at 100m +5cm a dead 200m zero
Sight in at 100. Dial to 2 MOA high while hunting. If for some reason, I had a shot at 300+ out east...I'm going to redial anyway...or let it walk. I have stopped using scopes that do not have a zero stop for this very reason. Quick and easy to get back to the starting point.
If I have a 300 yard shot with my pre 64 Model 70 in .270 Win, I take it with open sights, no problem.
@@ranchodeluxe1 Your eyes are far better than mine. I have to use binos to determine bucks from does at 300. I see deer shapes
Capped turrets 200-250 yard zero. If you dial then 100. 100 is just so easy to check in camp compared to 200. Great info in this vid. We see eye to eye alot. I also am a huge fan of the backcountry hunting podcast and gunwerks podcast. Great info and keep up the good work!!
I just use 200 for consistency sake
Yeah I’d say 200 whether you fiddle with dials or not. Closer shots tend to happen faster, and dialing at 200 yards is an unnecessary waste of time.
There is no difference between a 100 yd zero and a 200 (50) yd zero if you know how to adjust your turret. With a 50/200 yd zero you adjust less to get to 400 than if you start at 100. Otherwise it’s just a different point of reference initially.
I dont understand that 100y zero for hunting.
My setup is in mils, so i work all the way in metric units but the same can be done with moa, inches and yards.
my 300 win has a 220M zero. For this i need to be 5cm high at 100M or 4cm high at 50M.
This not "about 1.5" high at 100y" it is precisely 5cm high at 100m or 4cm at 50M. so knowing this i can precisely zero my rifle at the 50M or 100M range, the same as you do with a 100y zero.
Then when you want to shoot further distances with your 100y zero, you need a drop table for the different distances, and you need to learn them or carry a drop chart.
I have the exact same thing for my 220M zero.
300m is 0.5 mils, 350 is 0.9 / 600M is 3.2mils etc. there’s no guessing involved, it’s as accurate as starting form a 100y zero. except it’s a lot faster as you don’t have to dial for shot out to 300M
The Zero doesn't really matter, but should match the most likely Shot potential. Probably most influenced by the shooter ability. Also depends on your cartridge and bullet. No matter where I sight my gun in, I always make an elevation chart, showing what the zero is out to what I am comfortable shooting at (in ideal conditions). Also as you pointed out...practice is key in hunting situations. A tip a will share, is to get a bore sight. Check your scope with it once you have it dialed in, and take it with you on your hunts. If you drop your gun or even if it may have had a rough trip, you can take out your bore scope and see if it isn't right where it should be. Sometimes there isn't time to check your rifle on a range the night before you hunt. This has served me well for many decades of hunting all over the world, and most of it with a long range pistol. ;-)
I do what the GREATEST gun scribe of all time taught me. Most rifles are 2 to 3 in. high at 100. PBR 's are usually between 275 to 300. No thinking involved. High shoulder hold at 350 and backing at 400. Works for me.
If wind deflection at 200 yards is of concern, perhaps you could zero elevation at 200 and come back to 50 yards to zero windage?
Good idea. Technically there's a little spin drift in there, but it would be very minimal.
@@backfire spin drift is a non-factor at 200 yards.
A 175 grain match king shot from .308 at 2410 fps has an MOA wind constant of 10 to 1000 yards meaning a full value 10mph wind would only displace that bullet 4 inches at 200 yards In other words, for many modern cartridges wind inside 300 yards is moot.
@@charlesludwig9173I don’t think his point is that it will affect you inside that range but that you could have an inaccurate zero that could throw you off significantly for longer shots
Jim, You are a legend in your own mind. Cultivate humility. It will make you a better person.
It's really about where you hunt. Low country and back east and it's probably 100 yards. Out here in Montana at elevation and that's plinking range
Oh hey dude! Its cool seeing you on guntube I stead of tooltube
@@autodidacticartisan I used to Post contact like this but TH-cam didn’t like me mix it up and dinged me pretty bad back in the day. In fact a lot of my contact is still downplayed because of it
@@denoftools as much as I love being on TH-cam, I have to admit, youtube as an entity can be a mean b*tch
I'm just really impressed with how well that Sig cross did grouping at 200 yards. Impressive, indeed
Sig cross is an ammo snob. My cross sux until you put in Hornady eldx 143 grain. Then she's shooting 5 shot groups a penny size.
I typically sight in high at 100 to equal a 200 zero. Hasn't failed me yet
Same. And it isn't "inch and a half high at 100" it's 2" high, because that corresponds to my particular bullet drop. Not sure what's the problem.
Works for most of us
I do the same
See my above comment, but I sight at 100 for 200 too. Wind doesn't bother you there either...
Love the video but I have to disagree. I use the 1”-1 1/2” high @100 for years. Disclaimer I don’t shoot much past 300 yards. But I use the same method on the prairie dog fields. I see the big problem as the loss of Nikon and the BDC scopes and ballistics software is gone and going away. I’ve used it in the field for years and it works amazing!!! I don’t know what will happen when the program and it’s scopes go away! I’ll have to rebuy everything!😥
I have brought up on 4- 5 other channels that Elmer Keith recommended sighting in 1/4 inch left at 100 yards to allow for bullet yaw in a right hand twist barrel. There has never been a comment, rebuttal or retort. That advice has served me well. I'm 62. It makes a difference. I understand you had a left to right wind. JMHO. Thanks.
You talked about your wandering zero. In my experience, nearly all rifles have that. I run an AI-AT with Night force optic ($7500 gun) for work. I shoot a 3 round group out of it every week and It wanders up to an inch from week to week, usually less. The gun I had before this one was a Remington 700 PSS and it did the same thing.
Engineers and manufacturers are getting better at keeping tighter tolerances all the time, but keep in mind that they are called tolerances for a reason. It's because they're not perfect. It is possible that there is a .0001 variable in your sig cross and vx3 setup. That's all it would take to get a half an inch at 100 yards. What you do is shoot several groups over the course of several weeks and find the center of all of them and zero for that. Then as your zero moves around, it will move around the X and you will never be very far from center. Don't get in the habit of chasing your zero, it will drive you nuts.
Exactly! I completely agree. Would also like to add with your comment that the environment will always change that zero slightly. Wind, altitude, temperature, even what time of the day you are shooting vs sighted in. You’ll go crazy chasing that zero because it’s always off just a touch.
@@1776carpediem that’s exactly the first thing that came to mind when he said that. Temp, humidity, barometric pressure, elevation would alter zero a little.
Yes! 100%!
That’s just the temperature and humidity
A lot of that variance has to do with temperature and atmosphere changes.
I think that the point blank range is great if thats your acceptable accuracy within the range that you know that your going to shoot at. I find that if your target is outside of that area, then trying to figure and remember holds will be more difficult. With a 100 yd zero( if thats what you need), you'll always go up, not down and up. For combat I think a 300 zero makes sense. But that is of course just my way of seeing it. 👍
Very informative video. Thanks. I sight in for 100 yards. I created a dope card using my ballistics app to calculate MPBR for 2", 3", 6", 10" 18", 24" target size. This is rifle specific, load specific, environment specific. Example, for my 300 Win Mag with 180gr Berger I sight in at 100 yards, My MPBR for a 10" target size (deer) tells me to adjust turret elevation 3.73" (or hold over) for 316 yard far zero with MPBR of 373 yards. Most of the time I don't even need to mess with the turret because if I know my target size beforehand I set the scope prior to going into the field.
What app do you use?
I had VX5 on my Sig Cross 308 as well for a while. I belive thats what your using as well. It ended up being the scope not keeping constant zero. I had to send it back to Leupold to get looked at, they repaired it and sent it back. Now it works fine. I did some research and found that has been a common issue with some of the VX5's.
I also have to say, huge fan of your videos and content. Keep up the great work.
I always use 300 yards as my long range zero. Here's the difference though, once you've worked up a load, go to JBM Ballistics or something similar and run your load in their trajectory calculator. I do this and then print out that card it gives as my 0-1500 yard adjustments on my 7mm Mag. For other shorter range calibers I use 1000 or 500 or 200, like for my hornet. The point is, once you have that, you know how high your bullet should be striking at 100 yards to judge this. So if I zero at 100 yards and my card says it should be 4" high at 100 yards for example, then you have your "true windless" 300 yard zero. Just a thought. ;) I have a range with 300 yards and good berms, so it's not too hard to find a calm day to test also. *** could be your powder temperature sensitivity also***
Deer have vitals with a 6” diameter. Both groups are the same distance from the centre. Kill assured! More wind? You’d adjust anyway.
I think the confusion (and argument) comes from misunderstanding the two senses in which a rifle can be "zeroed." One is the calibrating the POA/POI to particular distance so avoid the need for adjusting turrets or holding off/over/under. But what we're really trying to do is calibrate the POA /POI for ALL distances, not just one distance. That means we need a closer reference to ensure the zero is as close to true as possible, and not skewed by wind or by ammo MV variability. Let's say you zero at 50y. Your POI and POA are precisely aligned. You should now be able to send a couple rounds to 100y to verify that the drop is exactly as predicted by your app inputs (atmospherics, scope height over bore, MV, BC, etc). Send some to 200 to verify if you want. The point here is that once you have a precise calibration, you can easily set your elevation to be whatever distance you want it to be. And if you "zero" at 50, then offset to create a "compensated zero" at 200y, you'll have a much tighter and more reliable zero than if you just shot at 200y. This of course assumes your turrets track and the scope is repeatable. If you have one that doesn't, then zeroing closer to your max range might be advisable.
The old Nikon app used to use separate inputs for "zero distance" and "target distance" which is really useful. It could tell you how high to zero at 50y if you wanted to be on at 100 or 200.
And if you want to maximize MPBR, it becomes a simple exercise of adjusting your elevation reference to whatever distance gives that MPBR. This will be the distance where the height of the bullet's trajectory becomes tangent to (but doesn't exceed) the radius of your vital zone "tube" that Jim references. If you use a 6" vital zone, the MPBR will give a trajectory where the bullet *just* approached 3" above LOS but no higher. And then it hits the MPBR as it falls out the bottom of the bottom 3" half of your zone.
The best approach (IMO) is to learn your drops for your preferred load and accurately range the target. Ultimately, there's no substitute knowing your DOPEs and being able to apply them. And then it frankly doesn't matter whether your elevation turret is set to align the crosshairs at 100, 200, or whatever. You'll know your craft and be able to make it work regardless.
Yeah I don't have much experience here but I don't use the terminology in that way. I "sight in" my rifle at 100 yds, but then I "zero" it at 200 and check it at that distance. But I'm out west and 200+ yard shots (mule deer, pronghorn, elk although I've never had an elk tag) are common.
i like your description of MPBR zeroing.... that is what i am trying to do with my 300wm. as you mentioned, there are many dependencies for it - barrel length, twist rate, cartridge loading, bullet weight, etc.
Sighting in at your close zero should be followed up by verifying that it hits point of aim at your far zero. Let’s assume your scope rings are .2” higher than you thought. You’re one of those guys that sights for a 6” mpbr (way too big) so your close zero is around 25 yards. Your rifle will shoot 2.4” higher at 300 yards than you thought, add in the 3”-5” group an MOA rifle will produce in field positions and that bullet is now going 5” higher than you planned.
Sure check it at 100 to see it’s shooting where your ballistic program says but that’s not always correct either. The best way to sight for mpbr is to check that the elevation is bang on for your far zero.
@@Trythis837 yes. But also important to recognize not every scope and rifle combination has a near and far zero. If you zero at trajectory apex, you’ll have only one zero.
@@G5Hohn that’s impossible. Every rifle has to have a near and far zero.
Well I suppose you could theoretically find a trajectory apex and cut into the very top of it but man alive that would take some very precise math.
I can’t do anything with my ballistic calculators to get the near and far zero closer than 4 yards apart. I suppose technically if you kept cutting that distance down you could find the apex but then again that 75-90 yard zero range the apex is in is probably the worst distance to zero a rifle at that there is, so is anyone going to be sighting in there?
My first trip to the deer fields was in 1975 with my Grandfather. He shot one rifle and one load for everything! Varmints on the farm, coyote and deer. 30-06 150 Winchester. He zeroed at 200 " 200 hundred paces then" and learned his holdover for distance and wind. I shoot 8mm Mauser 180 Nosler Ballistic tip or 180 Hornady GMX zeroed at 200. I too have learned my hold over for distance and wind. This is my only hunting rifle for everything I hunt, Coyote, Hogs, Deer, Antelope, Sitka, Goats, Sheep, and Axis deer. I use a scout scope. No fancy adjustable this or that. I feel we are loosing a whole generation of rifleman that haven't learned how to shoot there rifle and given load. There is too much reliance on technology to improve your "skill" as a marksman and hunter. I learned my hold overs as an Infantry solder, just as my father and Grandfather did in there respective Units during Vietnam and WWII. What we learned then definitely carries over to the hunting fields. If you're only purpose is to hunt and harvest at long range, past 300 yards. I don't see much hunting skills,spot and stalk being used . To close my rant, a 200 yard zero with a 6" kill zone is perfect. A deer size animal at 300 yards, aim for the top of his back above the shoulder and he is going down!!
Couldn't agree more. I like to call the reliant on tech boys, geardos.
I spent lots of time practicing my first rifle $299 Ruger American 243 with a cheap scope Bushnell Banner dusk till dawn and I haven't missed a target soda can size or hunting a small game or bid game headshot from 0 to 300 yards for the past years. It's all about practice and know your rifle
Do what works for you. Technology is only useful when it works.
Best answer.
the point he is making though is that zeroing at a longer distance will not give you a true zero because of wind. yes learning how to hold for distance and wind is important but that is not the point he is making
I never thought about wind drift on a long zero, but I live in an area where most deer are taken within 50 yards. I would never shoot a bullet that I didn't know the trajectory of though. I like math and precision, so I disagree that it's poor form to zero high at 100 yards to get a 200 yard zero. The math should be backed up with real world testing after the zero though. You can zero high at 100 and shoot to 200 and see if the elevation is right, and the windage seem correct for the given wind direction. I do love these geeky videos though!
If you sight in high at 100 the wind shouldn’t be an issue. The wind would be sighted at 100
@@mmorris6341 yep, I get that. doesn't hurt to keep an eye on it at longer ranges.
The wind thing is overblown. Yes if you go zero in 20 mph winds that is not good and will effect zero but anyone with a brain isnt going to zero a rifle in those conditions. Even with a 90 degree 5 mph wind at 200 its only about an inch of drift as long as your cartridge of choice isnt something like a 45-70.
That is the way I sight in. Depending on caliber, you determine how high the shot needs to be at 100 to be dead on at 200. Then sight in and confirm at 200.
@@Nick-sx6jm I agree, the main reason I'll be sighting in at 100 yards is that I don't have a place to shoot 200 yards. open country hunting and forest hunting is so different there will always be these issues that effect one more than the other. It seem that Jim doesn't do forest hunting enough to take it into consideration. I wish I had wide open plains to shoot.
Since 1992 I have been shooting 7mm Mag here in Australia, I zero at 200 metres and never shot anything beyond 300 metres, so I for my hunting it works just fine and never used a rangefinder either.
Cheers from down under.
Always sighted in at 100 yards, about 3" above bullseye. Had a 30-06, 30-30, and 35 Remington. Last two drop about 6-7" at 200 yds, and 30-06 drops that much at 300. Longest shot I ever took on a buck has been 70-80 yards. I have passed on bucks at 400-500 yards because it was too far. I passed on bucks at about 60 yards because that's too far for me with my bow. Get closer. Edit: if you can't accurately measure 100 yards on a slight slope, use a rangefinder with an angle compensator. It will let you know when you are 100 horizontal yards away.
You are 6 to 7 inches low at 200 by sighting in at 100 instead of sighting in at 200 and being 7 inches low at 300. You're making it harder on yourself with the 100 yard zero. Especially shooting a 30 cal.
@@200130769 , I said that I sighted in at 100 yards about 3" above the bulseye. That puts my groups at 3" high at 100 yards. It's called Point Blank Zero. With the 30-30 and 35 Remington out to 200 yards and the 30-06 out to 300 yards I can center the crosshairs on a deer's heart/lung area and squeeze the trigget. Even if I miss the heart I get a double lung shot.
@@200130769 reasoning like this everyone should zero his rifle at 1000 yards.. if he zeroes a rifle shopting a non flat trajectory cartridge at 200, at 100 the bullet will be too high
@@ssimossimo576 I don't really consider 1 3/4 inches too high at 100 yards.
@@200130769 who talked about 1 ¾ inches? If you zero at 200 yards many calibers will be much higher than that at 100-130 yds
I've just found your channel today, keep up the good work, I like your personality, your content and your environment. You got yourself a new subscriber.
25 yard zero works too. Removes all wind issues, and you can get your zero absolutely dead center. You will need to test your particular load at various ranges, but the .243, 6.5, and .270 can be aimed center mass on a coyote out to 300 yards or so. I’m too cheap for range finders and adjustable turrets, so this works for me
With flatter shooting magnums or say a 22-250, I sighted in 1.5 inches high at a 100 yds. I also always used a fixed power 6x Leopold scope on all my rifles. Not enough magnification for prairie dogs at four hundred yds and too much for an elk at 15 yds, but it is how you can get off a shot fast. The trajectory/rangefinder is automatically, instantly computed from the brain. (with of course, lots of shooting and hunting experience).
The end of the video is some really good advice especially for new hunters like myself. Best way to simulate what it takes out in the field to hit vitals on the first shot. Thank you for recommending that with milk jugs. I have not had my first hunt yet and will definitely be trying this out to truly ensure I have what it takes to harvest an animal respectfully on first shot.
I really enjoy watching your videos because they offer sound & unbiased pros/cons of whatever subject your video is about.
I am not a long range tack driver, but after some bad shots on a whitetail several years ago I became somewhat obsessed with accuracy. I'm one of the ones that utilizes a ~200 yard zero. Actually the long range zero depends on the caliber (200 yards for .270 or 300 yards for 7mm Weatherby).
However I don't shoot high and just call it good. I look at the ballistics of my chosen round (I'm very picky about ammo I shoot. Unless I can't find to purchase, I shoot exclusively Nosler Partitions). I look at the long range ballistics of whatever cartridge I'm shooting and use the point of impact at 100 yards (whether 1.4" for .270 or 3.1" for 7mm Weatherby) as my benchmark.
The reason I do this is because for either cartridge I have the same point of aim out to 250 yards for the .270 and 350 for the 7mm Weatherby. What are your thoughts on this??
And what about that wandering zero? How can that be mitigated? It's a confidence killer!
The wandering zero can be fixed by using a hard gun case, but the rifle has to be stabilized INSIDE the case as well. I use old t-shirts for this, folding them enough to snugly grip the stock and fore end.
@@chriskourliourod1651 It stays inside a hard gun case, all the time.
But, are you stabilizing the arm INSIDE the case? Heavy-barreled arms have a way of shifting even inside a hard case, and the resulting vibration of hard matter on hard matter can shift the zero. It’s happened to me, so that’s why I’m emphasizing the point. The evil devil is indeed in the details.
@@chriskourliourod1651 Yes. It stays inside an expensive Plano hard gun case that was around $300 and very heavy. Inside that case the rifle lays inside a very tightly cut out piece of foam. Unless I'm missing something I highly doubt it's the case. I definitely see the point you're making though! When you speak of stabilizing the arm, I'm assuming you mean the barrel?
Furthermore, I ended up sending the scope in to Leupold. After hearing back from them, they did quite a bit of work to the scope so I'm hoping the issue is fixed. I have to brag on Leupold because the whole process was relatively hassle free.
I meant stabilizing the entire arm. I hope everything goes well for you when you tune your rifle. Good hunting to you!
Zero at 100. If you want a 200 yard “zero” and you have a reliable scope with a good turret dial up to 200 when you leave the truck then you have the best of both worlds. Also it’s most likely not your rings but your leupold scope. A couple google searches will reveal that a wandering zero is very common on vx3 and vx5 scopes. Get a nightforce, trijicon, swfa, or a bushnell elite series.
Yep, Loopys ain't what they used to be.
I recently got a Tract. Hoping it will be more reliable. Time (and lots of shooting) will tell.
Leupolds are very good scopes for the crowd that likes to set it at 200 and forget it. You have to spend serious bucks for a scope that tracks reliably when spinning turrets. Leupolds have never tracked as good as a Nightforce. They are lighter scopes with less robust erectors. There’s no free lunch.
I also don’t see how that’s any different than running ballistic software to determine how high you need to be at 100 for a 200 yard zero. Regardless it’s your duty to verify POI at various distances before taking shots at game at those distances.
I use a .243...I always sight it in 1 in high at 100 yards... and it's on at 200 yards... I do the same thing with my 22‐250....works GREAT.! And I always use the same ammo.
I always enjoy your videos; you made some excellent points in this video. I think that one can do an excellent job of zeroing their rifle, whether it is at 100, or 200. But no matter which way you do it, you have to know what you are doing. And, have a verified ballistic chart.
Tell me if this is legit or not. I got one of these too
@@mcnivenjjm NOT!
You can always chronograph your loads.. check a balistic chart.. sight in at 100 and then try shooting at 200 and 300 so you are more aware.
I shoot coyotes with my 22-250. Im usually about 1,3/4 high at 100 which puts me almost right on at 300.. thats with a 50gr bk @4000fps
I am no expert but in the 30 years i have been shooting and hunting. I have always used 100 yard zero.
I like what you touched on at the end. I have a membership to a decent club with known distances to 400 yards. Most of my hunting rifles are shot at 200 yd. When friends want to "sight in" before season I encourage them to "practice" instead. Muscle memory is an amazing thing, practice will build confidence and reinforce the basics so you can focus on the variables. I do like your milk jug idea too. I have started shooting off sticks at the range before season because most of the time that's how I shoot in the field.
It's a scam
I always zero at 547 yards, I’ve done this my entire life. It’s by far the best way to zero in a rifle.
Good info in the video. I zero everything for 100 yrd only because it's simple and easy to do. I use my sub tensions for everything out to 300 and dial for any other distance past that. As for your wandering zero put a level on your scope. A level chamber, level scope and a level shooter will produce accurate groups at any distance.
Hey Jim, please give your thoughts on the following hybrid method as I can understand your negative points regarding accuracy of truly zeroing at 200 yards... This method assumes you have a chronograph & good ballistic data. You start with chrono data & get your avg FPS, afterward note your height over bore and run the numbers through 4DOF or another calculator with a stated 200 yard zero. You view the tables to see what your elevation is in inches at 100 yards with the stated 200 yard zero in the calculator. Do your zeroing shooting at 100 yards and shooting high to whatever your ballistic calculator states based on your ballistics. Set that as your zero and then confirm with a couple 200 yard shots. Thoughts? I just did this for my 22" 7mm Rem Mag shooting Hornady Outfitter ammo with the new CX bullet and came out with 1.59" high at 100 yards.
This is what I do and my gun is spot on. Punching steel at 700 yards. No issues.
If you have a range finder with Horizontal distance correction, you do not need a perfectly flat distance to shoot 200yds. It will account for the angle of the shot and give you the location where you experience 200yds worth of drop on the bullet.
I'm with you on the windage, though I think one could easilly alleviate the problem by dialing in windage at 100, and then dialing in the vertical axis at 200 without touching windage, then confirm windage at 100 again. In fact, I'd argue that if one is using a 200 yard zero, this is the "correct" way to do it. As a precision guy, I prefer to just do 100 yards and I agree completely with everything that you said here.
You beat me to it.
All it is, is knowing your DOPE and adjusting. But most people for a hunting application don’t take the time to learn what their rifle and ammo do at different ranges
So, I set my zero to 200 because the majority of the opportunities I get in the field are around 200 yards. I like knowing I’m only about 2” off from zero to 250 yards.
I sight in 1.4” high at 100 yards (which takes the windage worry off the table). Then I verify my elevation at 200 (because as you said, every round is different and I like to know how much drop I’m really getting).
Ultimately it comes down to preference. Anything over 250 yards I usually have time to dial in to make the shot. Anything under that I wanted the maximum accuracy with the least input because time is of the essence at that range. (And, my preference)
To me it depends on the distance you normally hunt..
I hunt close range ..usually 150 yards or under because of the dense wooded area is my most common range..
I feel that has a lot to do with it. Most of my shots out here are 200 to 600 yds. I personally use cartridges that line up with recommended foot pounds of energy on animals. Elk is recommended estimated1,400 foot pounds for ethical kill shots. I build and shoot rifles and cartilages at distances according to recommended energy values for each animal.
I used to always do 100 and now I do 200 and for me I like it but you discussed the draw backs, very well. I also do the exact same thing with water jugs. It's also great for new hunters or someone that doesn't shoot away from the bench very much. Great video.
It was a scam
If you are using mpbr instead of just using 200, check a ballistic calculator for the actual near and far distances. Near zero is usually in the 25-30 yard range. No need to worry about the wind. Zero at near and verify the far.
Standard US Army method. Probably works for most of us. At the very least, you get on paper more readily. I hesitate to think how long my 1993 Ft. Bragg zero would've taken had we done it on a KD. That old M16A1 was so messed up the gun would barely put rounds on the right edge at max windage, and they finally figured it was the gun. I zeroed the replacement in short order.
I've done both. Taken deer with both. If you work at it you can get good at either. I think it is personal preference. I now have a CDS VX5HD on my rem mag and it is definitely more precise especially past 300 and far more confidence inspiring.
Depending on caliber and velocity I sight in at a close range. For instance a .223 55 grain bullet at 3200 fps is sighted in dead on at 30 yards puts zero at 180 yards. 50 yards is +.75 , 100 yards is +1.75 , 150 yards is+1, 200 yards is -1, 250 yards is -4.5. This has worked for me for years without fail. Actually I use a Marlin sight in guide I acquired years ago. It's like a slide rule with many different calibers velocities and bullet weights.
Hi Jim, nice vid, I zeroed my 308W at 100m, I have my scope completely setup with all the clicks at different ranges upon 450m. In theory this is the way the to go. BUT found out in hunting situations, you do not always have the time to measure and dial in the scopes. Especially on smaller game like fox. I used to have a 243W which was zeroed at 200m with hot loads, back then I knew that everything which was within 200m was a clean kill, also the smaller critters. Due to laws in my country 243W is not allowed on game bigger then Roebuck. Therefor I’m now leaning a new rifle in 6.5 Creedmore, just a bit flatter shooting than 308W so I can zero at 200m and still be sure to make all shots to even the smallest ones, without having to make any adjustments or subtentions. For longer distances I would adjust with clicks. Basically I want to use a pipe of 2” vitals instead of the 6” you use in you vid.
As an example, using a Hornady Varmint Express 95g Vmax with a .365 Ballistic Coefficient 3300 fps muzzle, and a scope sight line 1.5" above the bore line, if you zero at 219 yards (200 meters), you will be 1.7" high at 125 yards, and will have dropped to 1" low at 240 yards ( 219 meters).
If you sight in to 1" low at 219 yards (200 meters), your trajectory will stay within the 2" vital area from 10 yards to 200 meters. That 1" low at 200 meters sight in, would be a little more precise than 1" high at 109 yards / 100 meters sight in, because the trajectory tops out around 100 meters, while it is dropping pretty good by 200 meters.
I have hunted with .30-06 since I was a kid. My family has been hunting with .30-06 sine ww2. We usually stick to 180 or 168 grain rounds. We zero at 100yds because we hunt in the mountains and canyons of central idaho. We very rarely shoot out to 400 and the majority of the time our shots are less than 200.
If you're going for max point blank range, your zero will be a function of your ballistics.
Great show and thanks again for the info 👍👍👍👍 your the best 👍👍👍👍
With respect to wandering zero: try moving the bipod from the end of the hand guard tube to as close to the receiver as it will allow. The reasoning is that the gun is acting as a long beam from your shoulder to the bipod, with the mass of the gun acting at the beam center. Your body weight and weight of your left hand is also probably adding some extra bending. If you put the bipod at the middle of the gun, then there will be less span for bending and the bulk of the mass will be just above the bipod.
Really shouldn't matter if the barrel is free floated though yeah?
@@aviax7717 Well you're right, sort of. But there is still bending in the rest of the rifle and unless the scope is attached directly to the barrel itself, there will be a relative angular deflection between the barrel and the scope. Even if it's only .001 of a degree, for a 500yd shot = 500tan(.001) = .5yd = 1.5ft. The only way to minimize that - at least in my opinion - is to place the bipod directly under the rifle centre of mass.
The only way to remove the barrel/scope combination from all outside influences - even if the barrel is floated - is to mount the scope directly to it, but then of course that brings on other problems. Of course, this is just my opinion on the matter.
The milk jugs is how my dad would get me ready for deer season growing up. That’s awesome you said that! Great videos brother! I bought a Sig Cross 6.5CM for deer season this year and I’m excited! God bless!
It was a scam
Depends on how you use the rifle. Hunting, PRS, and ELR will have their own preferred zero distance.
It's a scam
Great video, as always! I like a 100 yard zero and the Leupold CDS system w/zero lock.
The "randomness" of zeroing high at 100 yards is the same as that which is introduced by dialing your scope to compensate for distance. Either your calculations for bullet drop are correct, and then both work or your calculations are incorrect and then both share the same errors. If you are sloppy and arbitrarily pick 1.5'' to zero high, then you are introducing error, but otherwise this is fundamentally the same procedure as calculating the compensation for a ranged shot.
@@rogerpodactor2755 That's exactly what I wrote.
You can still sight in your rifle to a 200 or even 300 yard zero (or preferably your actual far zero using MPBR) by firing at 100 yards.
Knowing MV and BC of the bullet, I simply make sure that my group is X inches high at 100 yards.
Firing 160 Woodleigh Weldcores out of my 6.5x55 SE at 2380 fps, I need to be 2.8" high at 100 yards in order for POA to be POI at 200 yards. It just so happens that in this case, my far zero (for that 6" vital zone) is 203 yards, so 2.8" - 3" high at 100 yards gets me close enough to a 200 yard zero that it doesn't really matter in this case.
Let's change the rifle to my 280 AI, firing 160 gr Nosler Accubonds at 2950 fps, assuming a 6" target. For MPBR, I'd sight in at 2.6" (2.5" is close enough) to get me a far zero of 250 yards. I'd be 2.1" high at 200 yards, and 3.5" low at 300 yards.
There is enough slop in the gears and variability in Muzzle Velocity, cartridge to cartridge out of the same box, that it isn't necessary for me to try and sight in my 6.5x55 *exactly* 2.8" high at 100 yards to achieve a 200 yard zero. That degree of precision is possible, but it's only useful in long range target shooting, not at common hunting distances from 0 to 300 yards.
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edited to add this
Even if a shooter's equipment can do the deed out to 300 yards doesn't mean the shooter should pull the trigger on a critter at that distance.
Three common mistakes for newbs (and some guys who've been hunting a long while but never practiced shooting a lot) are:
1. a poor cheek weld
2. poor trigger control
3. poor breathing control
Out to 200 yards, those 3 things aren't THAT big of a deal. At 300 yards, those 3 things in combination are enough to produce very inconsistent results downrange. Inconsistent enough that, IMO, it would be unethical of a hunter to take that long of a shot.
If you're in this category of shooter, and you don't have the time to get better for the upcoming deer season, zero your rifle at 100 yards. For most modern, bottle neck cartridges (6.5CM, 270 Win, 280 Rem, 7mm Rem mag, 308 Win, and 30-06), a 100 yard zero will still get your bullet into the boiler room out to around 200 yards, which is as far as you should be shooting.
So set her up at 100 yards and be done with it.
Could the surprise differences in your zero be due to temperature and altitude differences?
I was thinking the same.
Awesome video I run 4 different calibers of rifles depending on how I feel in what season. I love hunting deer and elk and bear I Sign in all of my rifles at a 100 yd but I run is a second 0 device Depending on what type of prism you buy you can flip down what looks like A-scope cover but it's a glass prism and you can aim flat when you flip down this prism at 300 to 500 to 800 yd depending on which prism you get And what caliber your rifle is there only about 50 to $60 And out of my knowledge there is 3 different world militaries that use them for their snipers And they work, it's a great device you're hold over you really don't have it unless you're shooting past the prism and then you know sky's the limit at that point.
I chose 100 yard zero, but only because I have no other option. No range in my area goes past 100 yards 😮💨
It's a scam
If it is so quick and you trust your scope just dial down to 100 yards works both ways
Well, I'm an old time farmer from MT, but if you are a shooter, hunter, or both, it seems almost impossible that you don't know the trajectory of your rifle with a particular bullet. If your trajectory is such that your bullet will strike 1.5 inches high at a 100 yards and then zero at 200 yards, then it's pretty dang easy to check your rifle at hunting camp with just a 100 yard range. With all of the ballistic charts, bullet information, chronograph equipment, etc. etc, any hunter that goes afield is at the least lazy, and at most, grossly negligent to not know your bullet trajectory. My gosh, most ballistic charts list all of that info, SD, BC, velocity, drop, drift, and probably who shot the bullet. MPBR is mandatory to know if you are presented with any "normal" range that is practical for your rifle, and your own personal ability. Unless you are shooting an ultra flat caliber, you're going to be guessing at that 340 yard shot. Much easier to know your MPBR, and quickly calculate how many more yards you have to allow for. Just me maybe, but it's worked personally for more than 6o years. I suppose if someone has more guns than will fit in the back of a pickup, and is used to having a computer in their back pocket, then do whatever floats your boat. I'm pretty used to my 300 h&h, haven't had a hungry winter yet.
I'm with you.
I live in Huntington since I was 5 or 6 years old. I'm 55 years old grew up in West. Virginia have been living in Montana for a long time. And my freezer is always full. And these young kids with their new fancy . S*** Baffles, Me . I think they need to learn how to throw rocks before they learn how to shoot.
How to shoot
I keep it simple. load development at 100 yards. (by the way it is an old 6mm model 788 in lefty bolt with a 4 power scope). once the load is verified, and i have a .3 moa at 100! I zero at 250. this puts me 3 inches high at 100. the reason for this is I live in Saskatchewan, And group hunters drive deer. I set up on a area where the deer escape too and the average shot is between 200 and 300. this is a lower elevation "bowl" surrounded by bush near a creek. they clear the bush and stop, giving a nice shot from the bipod....works every year!
Sighting for 200 has 2 zeros
5.56- 50yrds/200yards
308-25/200 generally
You can zero at close distance and verify at 200.
I do this with all my rifles. I use a ballistic calculator for each cartridge to get a specific close range. The cartridge I use for my 06 I'm able to zero at 31 yards which is dead nuts at 200 yards. I live in the North West and hunt sage brush covered hills to pine covered mountains. 200 yard zero has never failed me. But, to each their own.
I have a 50 yard range at home and I have learned that most common none magnum center fire rifles with a dead on 50 yard zero are either dead on or very very close at 200 yards. And I verify this by shooting at our local range so I'm not just guessing.
First. Boom. Always MPBR.
Yes, MPBR takes some calculation, but it's a very practical way to sight in for hunting. I think it's too often misunderstood, and definitely underused.
I am constantly shooting my hunting rifle throughout the year but normally before big game season will take a bunch of clay pigeons, and said the various yardages and test my real limits it’s pretty much the same thing you explained just with a smaller target
Unsubbed because Kamikoto. They are a complete and utter rip made of the same J420 as a walmart special.
My vortex diamondback tactical 4-16 stays zeroed from hot to cold (not extreme change) no drift on the scope at 100. Vortex rings too. But all my other scopes will drift. That rifle is in the truck year round in a soft case that folds out into a mat.
Now my old redfield from the 80s on my 80s weatherby stays in the safe or goes in a hard case. Every year it’s a half inch left and half inch high every single year when sighted in for deer season.
So every scope will be different, even two nightforce one after the next off the line can have a different direction of drift, or one won’t really have hardly any, the other may drift a lot.
Great video a lot of good info.
If you look at your ballistic chart and sight in at the 50yd equivalent of 200yd zero verify it at 8:56 the range at 200 then it’s easy to verify at 50 yards when you get to where you are going
My hunting zero has always been about 2" high at roughly 100 yards. That puts my 7mm-08 on a paper plate out to about 350 yards. Our combat zero in the military was a 37 yard zero, usually due to the lack of a longer range to zero on. That gave roughly the same performance as the hunting zero. Pretty much point of aim out to just over 300 yards. The best shot I've taken was my Remington Sendero in 7mm-08 free standing in a snowstorm shooting uphill. Dropped an elk with one shot. Ranged it the next year and it was 460 yards. I'm in Utah where we rarely get a shot under 200 yards.. 300+ is pretty common.
Great info. I also shoot 7mm-08. What’s been your favorite hunting cartridge??
At the land I hunt on we also have steel targets at 100 yard intervals out to 1160 yards. 160 yards from 1000 to 1160 because of the lay of the land. 100 yard zero is what we use. We all shoot with target style scopes and can easily make elevation adjustments. We get an idea of bullet drop with a ballistics calculator then fine tune it with actual shooting. Make yourself a D.O.P.E. sheet and then mostly worry about the wind at longer ranges.
Good video. Your explanation of MPBR using a pipe is a good way to visualize it. At 1:20, I would only clarify that you put "my scope exactly in the middle there" versus "my gun exactly in the middle there".
Your reviews are always spot on! Great job and keep the content coming. Thx
It's a scam
For wandering zero. Could your point of impact change with the suppressor coming on and off? Over time, the threads could wear and may require to turn the can more or tighter which may clock it differently; again over time. I'm sure you have multiple suppressors and each could have a point of impact as well as wear in differently. Thought two is barometric pressure and Coriolis. I sure most reading this are laughing at a Coriolis comment but if you zero toward the north and then shoot south; it may shift right enough to notice. Or vice versa while zeroed south and shoot north could shift impact left. If the gun shoots awesome at your normal range. Maybe consider when you find impact shift. Last Could be spin drift but less likely. Zero at 200 and then shoot to at 75 the group may sneak left and then out to 375 and be marginally right. I'm sure a more than a few ppl have had these ideas, I appreciate the videos and your doing awesome. Keep it up.
It's a scam
Again what a good video brother,I use SST 150 grain in 308,on dear and boy howdy it does a wonderful job, it's the best projectile for me to use on deer or hogs ,so accurate and hits like a freight train.
That's awesome
I always zero for 200 yards, but do so by shooting a target at 100 yards. I do this by aiming for the bullseye, but adjusting the scope based on wanting to hit 1.5 inches high (which is based on the ballistics chart for the ammunition I use). This takes away the need to judge the wind if you actually were shooting 200 yards (as stated in the video).
Zactly... best for 222 to 375.. tick.
I totally agree with your statement on sight in on both. The only difference that I see is not only myself, but more importantly friends that hunt with one caliber only and actually know the drop . My neighbor has hunted with 270 his entire life (he's 58) He sights in at 1.5 high at 100 and puts meat in the freezer every year. Most people don't hunt with multiple calibers and even those that do are very aware of the bullet drop. Just my 2 cents.
We go with 100. This was a really informative video and I shared it. Tkx
Very very outstanding video young man. Great work. Keep up the good work. Thanks a lot friend. SC Navy vet.
Great points. I zero at 100 and generate a dope sheet with varying wind conditions then dial it in as necessary based on the range to see and wind meter. 100yds is nice as it's easy to calculate MOA.
My father always said 1.5 inches high at 100 yards. So I've always done that. He was a really good shoot. My uncle told me once my father could drive a nail at two hundred yards standing off hand.i remember checking zero once as a young adult. Not doing very good, he said, let me see it. Off hand sitting on a side by side he put it dead bull. For a 30 06 in practical hunting distance. I believe this is what his point was. Not match shooting or extremely long range. Just woods hunting. Occasionallya power line cut out. This was also long before range finders ( before your reply), you should probably know he was a sniper in the Marines.
Great point about the extra factors zeroing at 200yds. What I do is get a 200 yd zero at 50 yards so there’s less factors. You can also zero for 200 from 100yds as long as you know your ballistics and how low it should be impacting at 50/100 to be zeroed at 200.
I still zero for 200 because like you said the MPBR.
I do agree though what you’re saying about being precise with your zeroing and making sure it’s correct and not just eyeballing it and end up wounding game cos you weren’t actually zeroed. With my 308 50 yd zero is a 200yd zero, so it’s easy to zero at 50 for 200. I also confirm my zero for 200 but like you mentioned, taking wind into consideration to make sure it’s actually zeroed.
You need to do a video about reverse ballistics. I find it fascinating. If you dont have a chrony, just shoot the gun zero at a known distance and then shoot a few ather distance and then go to the Hornady ballistic app. Punch in your data and scroll to the distance you shot, change the velocity input until it matches the distance you shot at. And wala you have your velocity, and it teaches you more about your gun and ammo.
Great channel by the way.
I've always sited 3 inches high at 100 yards allowing a reasonable point blank range to 300 yards if shooting a reasonably flat trajectory cartridge. Not all scopes have exterior exposed turrets that allow you to dial up to range in an instant. Personally, I don't find that type of scope practical for hunting, although quite adequate for shooting at a range. If my groups are tight at 100 yards with windage centered and elevation above center at or close to 3 inches I'm good to go. This was the advise offered by hunters like Jack O'Connor and it has served me well. The presenter of this video makes a broad statement to suggest this type of sighting in, is responsible for wounded and lost animals. I would suggest that shooting beyond the capability of a bullets capable performance will leave more game wounded and unrecovered to die a slow death than staying within a practical range of shooting. It's one thing to extend your range by raising your cross hair up to the sholder line on an animal, which might allow you additional yardage, another thing to shoot several hundred yards beyond the capability of the bullet performance. Unless your range finder is calculating windage, you're still guessing when you have to alter your line of sight or begin to adjust your scope for elevated shots. Bullet performance degenerates very quickly beyond point blank ranges. Have I ever lost an animal? Sadly, yes. It has taught me to respect the limitations of bullet performance in relation to distance. If you are not close enough to induce hydrostatic shock, then you are dependent on the expansion of a wound channel. Beyond a certain distance,many bullets will behave as if they were full metal jacketed. Developing a small wound channel. Dead, but a very slow bleed out. Easily spooked if you show up 5 minutes later. Caveat: some bullets will peform better than others. They are not all equal. I'm not suggesting you don't sight in at 100 yards if that is your thing. Just suggesting that you do your research on the bullet you choose if you are intending to shoot at extended ranges. There are a lot of bullet choices for the enthusiast to extend their kill range. Not all bullets are the same. Each caliber presents different choices and all rounders are limited. Good luck with your hunt.
Sweet info! Been running a 100 yard zero for several seasons now. I won’t go back. I leave my gun at 1 moa while waking in area where I’ll get that 200 yard shot. It’s much easier and I feel I am more consistent and confident at my further shots
It's a scam
I’m sure the caliber matters, but in the Marine Corps we zeroed our M4s at 30 yards on a miniature version of an able target. That zero held all the way out to 300 yards before we had to adjust the rear sight for 500+ yards.
Not quite true. You first adjusted your rear aperture to your "sight-in" setting, then shot at the short range. After sighting in you changed your rear aperture back to its normal setting. Then, and only then, were you sighted in out to 300. Changing the rear aperture to its zero setting before sighting in at 25 meters, then changing it back to its battle setting afterwards, is what allows sighting in at the short distance.
hello Again... what is really needed is a combination range-finder/scope in which you can enter your rifle and cartridge params (twist-rate, barrel length, caliber, bullet weight, powder type, cartridge grains, etc.), and the scope/range-finder (with computer and rechargeable battery) will make all the adjustments for you so that you don't have to setup anything!! 🙂 -you just point your rifle at a target, hit a "calculate" button, the scope/range-finder auto calculates everything required to put crosshairs on the target at whatever distance... dream on!
Two part comments...
First good job explaining the "Hunting" aspect of sighting in. I Guide and alot of guys get wrapped up in details that don't apply to their hunt or in many cases are details that tend to be well beyond their shooting skills and in the field use for the distances they are willing to shoot. 90% of my hunters are from the Mid West and East Coast and None of them are familar or willing to shoot beyond 400yds and most wont even attempt 300+yd shots. We in the West are familiar with our wide open spaces but those folks back east are freaked out about our wide open space and distances. The only thing I would mention about wondering zeros is consider altitude and weather. Density of the air and humidity seems to affect some rifles and not others. Those guys I get from FL or other similar elevations absolutely have to re-zero and shoot their rifles again... some say 6,000' + will cause changes and then potentially every 1,000' of gain after that it will behave differently. For those 300yd and in shooters this rarely is a big deal. For anyone shooting beyond that and maybe came from the mid west to 8,500' for an Elk hunt WILL see changes to their ballistics.... some ammo Mfrs can be called and they can give you the higher elevation data.
Next - gallon water jugs... Excellent reactive targets. I always start the youth shooters out with water jugs. My brother and I use them for our kids to get their appropriate distances per hunt and the rifle they will use. We place 3 water filled gallon jugs at 300yds and then move them out in 50yds at a time. Whatever distance they can hit 3 rounds in a row without a miss is the distance they will be hunting at. Both of our kids have consistently shot to 500yds with the 6.5Grendel with first round hits and 3 in a row since they where 12yrs old.... trying to tell a hunter with some high dollar rifle, caliber, and optics that a 500yd shot is a do-able shot freaks them out. I explain its just a math problem with their correct zero, if they are zero'd correctly and know their hold overs or dial to's it can be done and they should practice it... but many back there simply just don't have open enough spaces to even practice! I encourage them to get water jugs too... the reactive targets are great encouragement for kids and it holds their attention and helps them focus and be rewarded with a reactive target when they do the fundamentals correctly.
I guess lastly - there is a big difference between zeroing on a bench and "shooting" from sticks either standing, sitting, or prone and forget asking them to make a 200yd freehanded shot on the quick and stay inside a 6"-8" circle. But I did it growing up with a Lever Action 30-30 since I was 12-18yrs old. Most modern Hunters simply are not familiar enough with their rifles to get optimal performance out of it and because of ammo costs & availability, +magnum calibers, never shoot it enough or in a variety enough of positions to know what they can actually do with it.
It's a scam
If you know your rifle, round, and reticle kentucky windage has always worked for me at ranges out to 500 with a 100 yards zero. A lot of it depends on your skill set and familiarity with the rifle your using.
Wind drift at 200 yards is minimal and if the wind is effecting your shot at 200 yards it’s a very strong wind that would make any experienced shooter think twice about pulling the trigger (think storm conditions). Zeroing at 200 yards takes the guesswork out of making a quick shot when time is fleeting. I’m shooting a 7mm Rem Mag, 150grain Barnes, usually at Elk out west.
You sir, understand ballistics.
I’m 67 and done a bit of hunting in the west. I’ve only ever shot a couple bull elk within 100 yards. But every deer and antelope with a rifle I’ve taken has been at least 250 yards. I never worried about spooking antelope because I knew that at 250-300 yards the antelope would stop and look back. So I’ve always been comfortable with my .270 dead on at 250-300 yards depending on what weight bullet I was using. I agree that at longer range wind is more of an issue than distance. Oh and nice touch blaming your wife on taking the knives as you segued into the commercial!
I can get low winds in summer - but that introduces the problem of hunting 40 degrees cooler than when I zeroed the rifle...
I check zero pretty often - changes in elevations etc etc.
Depends on gun/cartridge & where/what yer hunting. I sight in @ 200 most times here for hunting with fast calibers& 30-30 @ 100 works for me here. You can't just say what range we have to sight in at, we do what works for us.
I sight in for MPBR for the load I'm using. Usually well over 200 yards. Windage you always have to account for at any range.
I live here in NM, we have all our hunting rifles set for a 200 yd zero. Dad's 30/06, brothers 50 cal muzzleloader, and 300 Weatherby Mag. Wife's 7mm Rem Mag. My CVA Paramount 45 cal muzzleloader, 243 win and 300 Remington Ultra Mag. For us it makes better sense to have all rifles set up the same in case ones rifle is messed up. The 45/70's and 30/30's are set for 100 yd zero.
You don't have a 3ft.long scope,big around as a coffee can, yet your shooting is EXCELLENT!!!!..I'm extremely impressed !!
I shoot 2 at 100 for elevation and let it cool, then 2 at 200 for horizontal/windage. 5th round is always dead centre at 100. Worked for me for years. Dope is spot on out to 1000 with ballistics app.
Jim, I had the same problem with the same scope. Got to Texas for a pig hunt and the scope was shooting 5 and a 1/2 inches high at 85 yd. I had zeroed at 200 yd at the range Before leaving but had played with the Elevation at 300 yd. And my last 3 shots were higher at the same setting than at 200 yd.but I ran out of time to fix it before getting on the plane. It was like the reticle had finally broken free on the last 3 shots.
Excellent video an it echoes what I do. I zero at 100. Then I dial elevation for range if going past 100 yards. I like the Christmas tree reticle I have because I use to to range when the rangerfinder scans off a leaf at 30 yards, which is not my farthest shot. My intention is not to hit somewhere in the 8 inch pie plate. I aim to hit dead center of that plate.