Sorry guys. Didn’t show group sizes because I was self-filming this day and I missed recording some parts. Will show in next video. Also, the graphic at 3:03 is supposed to say 23.1 INCHES of bullet drop not Yards.
@ I would use plastic case and primer case. Only metal would be the lead. Design a gun to handle it. Sell ammo cheap. Take a loss,by selling the gun so cheap,and make money off ammo.
Would be pretty cool if federal and others could find a way to produce primers at a substantially, reduced price for the rest of the world while chasing these abstract cartridges that are admittedly still very cool. But boy, I miss cheap reloading supplies
This is an absolutely cool cartridge, that I fully expect, halfway hope, is a total flop. It’s simply not necessary. The guys who can justify the extra cost of ammunition and the rifles won’t care that it’s obscure in 3yrs.
amen... just decided to get into reloading specifically to make some lighter loads for my daughter for hunting, and small pistol primers were 10c a piece! hard to save money reloading when a single primer is the same price as some companies entire reloaded cartridge!
Another American gimmic.... Let's unpack a bit.... The ideal gas law ((Pv=T) simplified) states that if the volume is object is constant but the pressure is increased then the temperature will increase in a direct relationship with the pressure increase as well iow 'barrel burn' will increase... However since the powder volume of the 7prc is circa 80gr and the 7mm Backcountry is 60gr, noted that the PRC is 65 000 psi with 80gr powder at 3000ft/sec will burn a barrel out circa 1500rds... So to achieve a velocity of 3120ft/sec with 25% less powder the only solution is to increase the burn rate of the powder to cause extreme gas expansion and increase the pressure in the case to 80 000psi... as per the law indicated above this will mean that there will be a significant temperature increase. So what is Federal not telling the public: 1. The powder selection is of a faster burnrate than the 280AI, 7Rim mag and 7PRC in order to achieve 3000+ ft/sec out of a 16" barrel 2. It's not a short action (mmm thought you could only shoot PRS with a short action ...haven't we been told 'short actions are best for agggges' mmm and 3.Now they running to the 'old cartridges' design as to dampen the burnrate to some degree and so you can 'put another cartridge in the mag' ... So what is this cartridge designed to replace .... no not the 7 PRC its designed to replace the .280AI, 7 Rem Mag, .270 Win, .280 Remington ... and why is this a load of nonsense simply because it already sits in a long action which wont be adopted by the PRS or F-class community ... so its focused at the hunting community to knock the above cartridges out ... BUT here comes the BIIIIIIIG problem ethical hunting distances is not governed by distance, distance is a result of flight time... in other words no person will ethically hunt beyond a bullet with a flight time of more than 1/2 a second (simply as too much can happen in that 1/2 sec not to speak of the 1/2 sec it takes you to make the decision to shoot and pull the trigger) ....so allll this additional energies is meaningless simply because this bullet very similar to the 7Rem mag, 280 AI etc reaches around 400-45- yards in .5sec so the additional energy you have with this round at that distance is meaningless because all the 'old' cartridges still retain over 1500ft of energy at those MAX ethical hunting distances. Apart from the fact that a deer cant even see you anymore beyond 400yards so then its not hunting anyway its 'shooting at something with a heart beat' .... so in short this cartridge 'solve a problem that doesn't exist' but like all crappy tasting cheap easter eggs its being packaged in a nice bit of colored foil with a bunny on... in this case the foiled and bunny is '80 000psi' but yes you will find fools that'll buy this... and that's how the manufacturers stay in business.... dumb money !
@@Sh0ckInAweexactly, I got all the old cartridges and they are great but I'm for sure also gonna try out the new ones. If you just like one do it all cartridge great, I'm here to try em all 😂😂😂
I noticed this same thing with a featherweight Carbon Fiber/Titanium 6.5 PRC. It recoiled less than any .260 Rem or 6.5 CM I've ever shot, and I've shot a lot of 6.5-08 class cartridges since the 2000s.
OK, the 7mm-08 is a good cartridge but basically a remarketed version of the 7x57 Mauser invented in 1892. If the 7mm-08 had been named the 7x51, which is what it is, not one person would have ever bought it. The Mauser casing has 8.5 grains more powder capacity. than the 7mm-08. The 7mm-08 is just a typical American marketing ploy. But true to your claim, it's an underrated cartridge and a good one.
Yup, and there’s tons of 7x57 Mauser ammo out there on shelves too, so why do we need a 7mm-08, right? 🙄🙄🙄 Oh wait, I forgot 7x57 isn’t a short action, so I guess the comparison is kinda stupid after all.
I agree. Hornady makes good ammo. But I'm glad to see another manufacturer go head to head with them. Mainly because everyone turned their back on Winchesters 6.8 cartridge. I would love to see more firearm manufacturers produce rifles in the 6.8. Everyone blew up the 7 PRC, I wouldn't give up my 7 remington mag for the velocity the 7PRC IS throwing down range.
The article from outdoor life said that RCBS is making reloading does for it, but they're having trouble figuring it out. They said they have to run it through the resizing die "over a dozen times" to get it right. So we'll see how that goes.
worth it, we can cut 8 to 10 inches of barrel and still get good velocity. I'm not into this cartridge in particular, but imagine where the trend goes. Your 5.56 carbine ammo could get 2800 fps from a 10.5. That's a game changer
Do u really think that,I really love my 280 rem ,I never understood why it’s so dam hard to find shells for a good cal like that,the 280 akly is a dam good one to,never had one but I do have 280 rem
While I agree, I'm seeing so many people starting to abandon their .308s in such volumes, that most shops in my town won't even take them in because they simply can't flip them.
@@surq0784I think everyone who wants a .308 already has one . Guys who have a full cabinet and are buying a new rifle already have a .308 in the back . They see no reason to have another. They will be looking for something different
Ok guys I’m being sarcastic lol. But where I hunt a 30- 125y shot is the norm so long range isn’t a thing. Here a 300BO or 30-30 is fine. I use all the above. But Backfire does the best reviews and this looks like an awesome new round and kicks way less than my 300WM Tikka.
I’ve been in the market for a pre 2000 Remington 700 bdl in 308 and I can’t find one! I’ve bid on a couple on GB but my limit was $1100 and got out bid.
The biggest advantage of high pressure is with shorter barrels. The propellant in high-pressure loads have roughly the same amount of energy as normal ones, but with the high pressure, more work is done on the bullet within the first few inches of the barrel travel.
My big concern: it’s being marketed as a backcountry system, shorter and lighter. It’s right on the verge of magnum performance from a short barrel. It’s at 80k psi…. Your short light suppressors all have minimum barrel requirements for magnum calibers (which are traditionally 60-62k psi) of 22-24” and Federal markets this for 20” barrels with rifle manufacturers obviously using shorter barrels. The suppressors that can handle this are not lightweight which ends up defeating the whole backcountry marketing.
I’m unsure of what the pressure will be at the muzzle of the 16” barrel. As for the suppressors I’m sure those with no barrel restrictions like the DA Sandman, Rugged Radiant, or Rex.
@FightinWinchukian-i1x eye popping breech pressures need super heavy actions. When I last looked, the game is not armoured plated. I can see a lot of bolt eating in the future...
Higher pressure means burning the powder faster and more completely in a given area. It’s throwing less powder overall and even at the same volume less unburnt powder at your barrels throat, improving the wear rate.
I was wondering about this. Does higher pressure also mean more chemical energy converted into kinetic energy, and less heat? The same way a diesel engine can more efficiently turn fuel into torque, with less wasted converting into heat vs. a gasoline engine because of the higher compression ratio? Maybe we need a collaboration video, Engineering Explained/Backfire? Lol
They followed suit with hornady. Hornady blackballed it as soon as it was announced. Also, winchester hasn't lost the mindset from the old days of we'll be sole maker & make a fortune initially, then let everyone else join in later. 21 sharp kinda same thing, Win short mag chamberings, they have an mo that they aren't changing.
@@HoffnerPrecision Because the 7 PRC crave made them too much money NOT to produce. The 6.8 Western release was a horrible time with the pandemic. You couldn’t get the rifle when you could get ammo. Then you couldn’t get ammo once you obtained the rifle. Horrible timing, only to have Hornady release the 7 PRC and their claimed numbers put hunters, writers, and hosts into a frenzy. The 6.8 Western never stood a chance. It’s a shame because it’s an exceptional cartridge. You can get a 170 grain bullet traveling at 2,840 out of a 20” barrel with the Western. Then there’s Hornady, who refused to support it, and they literally blackballed the cartridge.
@@jimedick9496 the whole timeline doesn’t make sense to me. I’ve always thought that they didn’t make 6.8 western because they knew the 7prc was coming out and it would take all the steam out of 6.8. It did exactly that, but a big part of the reason 6.8 didn’t make it big was because federal didn’t support it. I don’t know why they would initially support 7prc by allowing Alliant to provide RL26 powder, which is why 7prc was so good for a while, then pulling RL26 from Hornady, developing their own ammo that actually does meet the claims for a short period, then as far as I can tell, pulling their own ammo off the market so prc looks bad again, then releasing 7 backcountry. They’ve obviously been working on designing this for quite some time because they have multiple companies making rifles already. Seekins completely redesigned the PH2 for new high pressure rounds. Why would they have produced 7prc ammo for such a short period of time when they knew that they were going to do everything they could to kill it in the near future? I think the whole thing was planned from the beginning to make both 6.8 western and 7prc look bad so people would be eager to switch to 7 backcountry.
I jumped at the .260 Rem cartridge about 20 years ago and although it’s a nice one and I still shoot it, finding commercial ammo is getting harder. I don’t have gun collector level of money so I would stick with the more time tested calibers until this is proven to be a long lasting cartridge.
I bought my 260 as soon as they were available back in the 90s. Still have it. It's the do everything rifle for me. I have plenty other calibers and platforms. But if I could only have one gun it would be my old 700 rem, .260.
@@BG-Freedom Maybe, I would suggest someone de-prime a fired 7BC case and take a good look at the primer/primer pocket. One of Federal's recently granted patents directly addressed some proprietary and novel primer/flash hole designs to deal with the 80+ksi cartridge pressures.
Yep, me too. 200 f/sec over my ‘06, will not make/allow me sped $2500 on a new rifle, and spend $1000 on new reload dies, for hardened steel cases. 🧐 Really cool looking rifle you tested. Great info and perspective on the 7mm BC, good job!
You can reload 6.8x51 cases. There's a guy on Sniper's Hide who uses them to make .308, spitting 220s at 300 Win Mag speeds. 16" lightweight .308 AR-10 does 168gr at 24" bolt gun speeds.
I think you completely neglected to mention the fact your 30-06 won’t get near that velocity with the shorter barrel and for sure couldn’t even keep up in the heavier range that’s dominated by the PRCs.
@@onebadjack1313 UR was using a pretty long barrel when he exceeded the SAAMI MAP of .308 and went into those intentional pressure excursions. The 6.8x51 necked up to .308 was done with a 16" barrel. The 1x fired cases are a lot more affordable than Alpha or Lapua Palma brass.
Did a QL simulation using a 280AI and a 175 Fed SP Trophy Bond. Numbers aren't exact, but wanted to see if there's a powder that might get 3000 at 80KPSI and get near 100 burn with a 20"barrel. Assumed 1.570" for bullet length. IMR7828SSC got real close, but it was a compressed charge. Be interested to see if they are using an available powder or some proprietary product.
Jim, you hit the nail on the head. Before even seeing your video, I told my hunting friends the exact same thing about where we are going. The 277 Fury hybrid case just started it all. Federal saw the tech and doubled down. Higher pressure cartridges are here to stay and I think the early ones to the game will be the most prominent and adopted. The 7mm Backcountry does what everyone wishes the 300WM and all of the short mags should have done before. 3000fps on higher BC bullets out of shorter barrels without the punishment on the shoulder. I was strongly leaning towards a 7mm PRC or 6.8 Western, but looking at the rifle launch for the Backcountry, I may have to rethink my plans. The 277 Fury just didn’t justify what I wanted a hunting round to do out to 300-400 yards.
@@briankinzer4175 my guess is no…. .284 at higher pressure & velocity with a high BC bullet should have more KE. That being said, I’m a 270 fan and always will be…. It was ahead of its time and can take anything down in the U.S.
@@briankinzer4175 just the high BC alone is topped by the 7 BC. The 270 win rifles are spec’d with 1:10 twist, which is not fast enough to stabilize a higher BC bullet. This is where most of the modern cartridges excel… the marketing did a better job of rifle to bullet pairing.
Can't find Federal premium ammo up here in Canada right now. I'm looking for 7prc, 300win, 30-06. It's very limited, I wish Federal would just focus on the supply before creating something new.
@@jam5287seen some rumors and scuttlebutt about 308 putting up 300 win mag numbers with these peak alloy cases. I think that would raise a lot of eyebrows. Especially elk hunters
I’ve been saying that steel/hybrid case design is the logical next step to existing cartridges for awhile, but I didn’t think I’d see it this soon. I’m stoked to see where the industry goes with this technology. And even more so for the comments sections filled with fudds when steel/hybrid cased Creedmoors & the PRCs get the same treatment. What a wild time to be alive in the shooting world.
@@longrangeautist6117 a steel alloy 6.5 creedmoor would be the bees knees for me here in East Texas. I want to build another 6.5 creedmoor but this 7 Backcountry has my ears perked up
I was shocked to find out how slow these new designed rifles poke along. Reloaded 7 Mag with a 160 Nos moves on pretty fast and my last few shots were close enough for the range.
Nice and interesting improvements for those who are eager to try something “new”. I am all in favour of new research and development. Being an 84 year old meat hunter, I learned to avoid high velocity meat destroyers, the reasons I gave up the .300 Win and Wby and the 7 mm magnums. Settled on a .308 Win in the end. However you guys enjoy playing with the new stuff.
The concept of high pressure cartridges may stick around but I have a feeling this will go the way of the 224 Valkyrie, 277 Fury, etc. It’s not going to take hold out with serious precision rifleman.
Jim, I think one thing that’s worth definitely talking about will be barrel life. Jayden Quinlan from Hornady did his podcast about barrel life and cleaning. Jaden mentioned that not only is the heat cause erosion of the barrel but the pressure and the higher the pressure, the shorter the barrel life so when you’re increasing this pressure to 80,000 psi through the barrel as well, barrel life‘s gonna be even shorter. They talk about a 264 win mag mag back in the 60s being a barrel burner this one will be certainly be a barrel burner and really shorten barrel life. Nice work Jim!
I've found hornady to be notably biased. Just look in their manual and look at the powder for powder, apples to apples charge weights and velocities they get out of their cartridges vs old standards, and compare that to other manuals like Lyman's, who have no dog in the fight.
But how much does barrel life really matter? They're not expensive to replace a few times over the life of a gun. If I can improve my experience with the gun by possibly replacing the barrel a few times then ok sounds good. In a time of war barrel life would matter, but that's it.
I'll tell you right now, if Ruger puts out an American MK2 chambered in this, 24" barrel, I'm going to go grab one immediately!!!!! I've been torn between the. 308 , 6.5 prc, 7mm -08 and the .300 win mag. I'll specifically be targeting Pronghorn (speed goats) and Elk. I'll also be ordering a Backstop recoil pad for it 👊💪 you've been my favorite source of rifle information (Ron Spomer too) for quite some time now. I thank you for all you do for us!
@@PassivePortfolios why do you want more velocity and a tiny little bullet? There's already multiple options that fit that need. What's your reasoning?
It’s fairly well known at this point that due to specific powder shortages Hornady ammo for the 7prc is almost laughably slow compared to other offerings. Running something like N565 or N570 velocities over 3000 for are fairly easily achievable in a 22” barrel with a 175 gr bullet. At least that is what I’ve seen I my own reloading.
people should really understand that handloading your ammo opens an universe of possibilityes with your rifle that is totally closed with factory ammo. but somebody simply refuses to learn...
I wish there were more companies chambering for it. Aside from a couple new production Mauser options the only options I can find are surplus guns or super high end custom rifles.
@ very true, but you can buy barrels and actions to build one, or use an action you already have. Really doesn’t cost to much. Especially if you just buy one piece at a time. Just set yourself a budget.
I think this will enjoy some short term popularity. Having similar performance out of a shorter barrel is such a huge advantage. The problem is: the floodgates are now open. Everyone is going to be developing better rounds based on higher chamber pressures now with different case materials. .277 fury will stick around simply because the military uses it. But other eary designs like this will probably become obsolete very quickly as the technology is refined.
Love the videos - cool cartridge. I find it best to be at least five years behind whatever cartridges is the newest .. greatest and latest. At least then I’ll know if I can count on regular ammunition supply and optimized firearms to be available. Basically, if Ruger American puts it in its lineup It’s good to go forward with… or at least I’ll have many options to choose from both budget and high-end. Still tough to beat the 243, 270, and a 300 win. Covers you from young to old and for all game in North America. Thank Jim 👍🇺🇸
As a handloader I will be curious which fast burning powder is required, and primer size. As a machinist, I am curious about the steel alloy and how to prevent the necks from splitting.
They gotta get off the meth with all these new cartridges. It's like a bunch of tweaker engineers are staying up for weeks at a time just inventing new rounds just to invent new rounds
The whole point of the alloy casing is to eat the pressure. The stiff shoulder is meant to keep the powder burning inside the casing building more pressure to use less powder to achieve the same numbers.
Ok now imagine a 7mm ultra with a steel case at 80k PSI. It would be even more potent this technology will slowly creep to other calibers. Imagine a 30-06 performing like a 300 win mag
You know, Jim, I agree with everything you're talking about here . What I think would be more important and impressive would be to upgrade modern components like making steel alloy case's across the board for all cartridges/calibers.That would take everything in the shooting/hunting world to the next level in performance. If we could push 80,000-PSI in our cartridges . Thank about it the 6.5-CM with normal pressure. 140gr 2750fps 22in barrel. Now put 80,000-PSI behind the 140gr 6.5-CM 3100fps. When you can add roughly 20,000 more PSI to the existing cartridges, you get a tremendous increase in velocity and performance. So maybe just maybe WE , THE PEOPLE with BIG VOICES like you, Jim with Backfire, can get with one of these companies and convince them to create a better, stronger case/cartridge for higher pressures of 80,000+PSI using steel alloy across the boad . A new line or bread of cases with reloading components. Now, that would be something remarkable, wouldn't it. They can come out with new cartridges every day, but until we start using newer, better technologies and materials, all we keep trying to do is reinvent the wheel, and that makes no sense at all . Their has been no change to the components of the cartridge other than changing the degree of the sholders of the cartridge in over 100 years . Let's ban together and get some better results across the board for all cartridges. Can I get an AMEN. God bless you and your family.God bless america 🇺🇸 🇨🇱🇺🇲 🇨🇱🇺🇲🇨🇱🇺🇲🇨🇱.
In an AR platform, yes, for sure in a bolt action, maybe. It would depend on if it was an older rifle, say from the 60s to 2000s it might now be able to handle those pressures . The new materials they use today for our modern rifles can handle some insane pressures .
Unfortunately that will never happen. Every single cartridge would have to be redone because you can’t make high pressure ammo for an existing cartridge that is meant to shoot its regular sammi spec ammo. Putting an 80,000 psi load in grandpas old 30-06 might not be good
Really enjoy your videos. Thank you for letting me experience some of the new and upcoming firearms and ammunition, that I will probably never buy, but love the information. Definitely entertaining.
Mark this day in history.. I hereby declare at 4pm on January the 7th, 2025 that high pressure is the future of ballistics 🤣😂😆 Seriously though, they have to do something. They've played around in the 50-60k realm about as much as the can. I think if they can do it without torching barrels it will catch on. Seekins dropped every rifle model they have and went with all new designs anticipating higher pressure rounds in the near future. Look at all the high end manufacturers he mentioned. Companies don't jump on board like that unless they have insider knowledge and know where things are going. That 7 backcountry has probably been in development for 2 years or more from conception to release. They're probably testing 10+ other calibers right now and staging the releases to keep sales at peak.
Initially when this cartridge was introduced, I thought, here we go again, another cartridge we don't need. After watching more content on this cartridge, I am seriously considering picking one up. I like that it would combine all the features I want from a cartridge. Supreme performance in a standard sized cartridge and less recoil.
So correct me if I'm wrong the muzzle velocity is faster than at the end of the barrel. So a shorter barrel should be a tad faster! A little bit of tricking the mind into believing it's faster. Ron Spomer what's your thoughts?
I'll make a prediction before anyone has even bought a rifle in 7 backcountry. It'll be on life support in less than 5 years. In 20 years, the 7 PRC will be more available than it is now.
Remains to be seen if these are reloadable. We were told 224 Valkyrie was reloadable, but the primer pockets only lasted 3 firings avg. This is a hunting cartridge for hunters. As a target shooter, I'm out.
Depends on brass quality, and federal makes garbage brass. Peterson makes brass that can take proof loads in stride. They have been for years. Steel cases are not required for 80k psi.
Polaised Jim? Well I'm in two minds, and both of them love seeing people losing their minds over fun things that don't cause the sky to fall hahaha...getting the popcorn to watch (and learn) and be entertained. Top job!
For those of you who look at the comments first, the 7 back country just duplicates 28 nosler ballistics in a 30-06 diameter steel case with a similar C.O.A.L, it does this by using pressures in excess of 70k psi, because of its steel case it’s extremely difficult or impossible to reload your own ammunition.
In other words just get a 28 nosler, it’s already here and available, the 7 back country despite their claims will have a similar barrel life because of the temperature of the powder they will have to use to produce those velocities, and the 28 nosler can be reloaded unlike the 7 back country despite their
@@leonhart2452its not really reloadable, they said it's possible to reload under very specific conditions so basically you are gunna need special equipment and might get one or 2 loadings pre case
@@tatsuhirosatou5513You sure about that? I thought barrel burn was related to the speed of the bullet, and this is the same as the PRC. It's just doing it with a shorter barrel.
What if? One was to have a 26" barrel? Would velocity increase? Decrease ? Majority of powder burned in 20" barrel? Alloy cases resist corrosion? Many questions need answered.
What do I think? Knee jerk reaction: skeptic. So I'm going to keep shooting my tricked out 300WM Model 700 w/ 26" barrel until the wheels fall off. I suspect much of the recent developments has more to do with selling guns than ballistic advancement, for lack of a better word. And, I ain't stacking my obsolete gear at the curb on trash day. The real advancement is improving the case, promoting increased operating pressures and that can be done with any existing cartridge, like maybe my 90+year old 270W? Yes, I know the BC might not be quite as good but I can live with it.
I am by no means a ballistician so could be completely wrong, but would have thought that barrel life would be worse than 28 Nosler, not better, as the higher pressure results in far greater peak flame temperature, which is what primarily wears out a barrel. This is why cartridges like 7*57 and 6.5*55 have a reputation for long barrel life, as they operate at a lower pressure despite having relatively large case volumes for their bore diameter.
@@jam528750 bmg doesn’t run at a higher psi than any other modern caliber so that’s not really saying anything. 5.56, .308, .270, and pretty much all hunting calibers run at a higher psi than it.
Jim how much concussion does 80,000 psi with a muzzle break and 16” of barrel produce? I’d be shocked if there wasn’t a noticeable difference between 26” 62000 psi, and 16” 80,000 psi. I would think that would be an instant headache recipe without a suppressor.
Thanks Jim, I appreciate your work making the video. Heavy sigh at another new cartridge that looks great on paper, but in the end doesn't really do anything more than a ton of other cartridges inside of 600 yards. imo.
I don’t understand your comment. Looks to me like it does a lot more than the existing 7mag and prc. That much of a increase in velocity is super meaningful for hunters, extending MPBR, extending range at which tough bullets (eg Barnes) will expand, ability to run more compact rifles.
@@phild9813 it matches 7 mag performance which is better than PRC but in a shorter barrel.. heck I would love to have this in a 16.5”. That would be a handy rifle to have. Precision network is wrong on this one.
This cartridges success hinges on the ammo quality since it won’t be reloadable for the foreseeable future. If the groups and sd’s aren’t tight it’s probably not going to make it.
Shorter barrel and higher chamber pressure would mean high pressure at the muzzle. Is it possible that makes the muzzle brake more effective at reducing recoil?
Pressure has little to nothing to do with barrel life. It's the abrasive wear caused by unburned powder that will cause erosion. This will use a faster burning power and less of it.
@howardjohnson541 Wrong, high temps are caused by the volume of burning powder in relation to bore diameter, not the pressure. For example, 308 and 6.5 creedmoor both run at 62000 psi, however 6.5 has a shorter barrel life, because the powder to bore ratio is higher
A specific powder type and volume are capable of producing significant pressure differences in a rifle even though it has the exact same amount of potential energy. How? Pressure is created by how fast the gasses expand and how easily they have a place to go. That's why a plugged barrel would explode with significantly less powder than a free barrel.
So if federal controls Alliant powders, I guess this explains why we can’t get RL26 to make 7prc perform up to potential. Also explains why Federal 7prc ammo has been so hard to find. They’re trying to make the prc underperform so it looks bad, so they can kill it with the backcountry.
To me this is splitting hairs. I can't see any benefit in changing calibers when I have my old Remington 700 30-06 with a 25.5-inch barrel throwing 165 grain Speers at an average of 3015 fps. That set up is what we use for elk and deer. If I need bigger I will just pull out my 338 win mag. I also have 308's that I load for my wife and ARs. I am the type that just upgraded my 10 year old cellphone. If it isn't broke why change. Plus I know my guns and their capabilities and limitations.
Are you shooting those rifles with a suppressor? That's where this new cartridge will shine. Shorter suppressed rifles shooting the same velocity as longer barreled unsuppressed ones.
Im on the same page. Id have to have 30 safes if I bought every new amazing thing that came out. I drive old trucks with good tires and shoot old cartridges with good glass.
No I put on a Shilen match grade barrel. I don't have any guns suppressed, Colorado is a mommy state, and I don't need them registering what I have. Nothing illegal just not any of their business what I own.
I guess out in Colorado, swinging around a 25” barrel isn’t cumbersome. For me, having a handy short rifle that produces those insane velocities is what’s important. Of course you can make the argument you don’t need it. But then why do you have 308s if your 06 does everything you need it to?
Alpha srp brass, varget, cci primers, 175 gr 185gr bergers and 308 win. @ 75-80,000 psi 24 inch kreiger barrel been doing it just fine ill let you figure out the velocities
@@BcFuTw9jt I must not shoot exotic cartiriges because there is ammo everywhere. I haven't had an issue since covid shortages. In fact I've had a hard time NOT buying ammo.
"Higher pressure gets us shorter barrels." That is not how that works; higher pressure is even better in a longer barrel. You just get more for your barrel length because of the pressure increase.
You actually believe that pushing a bullet at the same speeds as a .28 Nosler or 7 RSAUM out of a different cartridge design is going to make for a barrel that lasts? That is funny...that's now how rifle barrels work. As a guy that shot F-Open for many years I can tell you that isn't how things work...but you can dream.
What’s more funny is you don’t consider the effect of loading 30-40 percent less powder to do so. It’s not just a different shape or something incrementally different
@@brandonb6164 That's not actually funny. It's really simple. With a steel case you can burn a faster powder, which typically are smaller granules per grain. Not really a surprise. The downside is, faster powders do in fact, burn barrels out faster.
God Dammit. I just finished my first fully custom built 7prc build. 7 backcountry- I wonder what velocities would be in a 24” or 26” barrel as I can’t run a suppressor in CA. Great video, I’m blown away that more companies haven’t figured out that steel case is better for higher pressure ? Thoughts?
Many questions that you may or may not have answers to. 1. What is the expected life expectancy of these cartridges from reloading? 4 reload 8 reload? 2. The bump in fps from a 20 inch to a 24 inch seems kind of low (in my opinion) @150 fps considering things like our 6.5CM are getting around 250ish fps gain from the same added length. Will any accuracy increase make it more desirable to get a longer barrel? 3. What is the 1,000 yard velocity. I may have missed it but is it still super sonic? 4. What size groups can be gained with this cartridge? 5. Will the groups hold at 1,000 yards? 6. Does the bullet have an effective range for target/comp long range shooting or will the projectile start to tumble? 1,000-1,500 yards 7. The bullet dia is still sub .30 cal for some regions that require it for big game. Do you think with the higher energy than say things like a 6.5 cm that it will get a pass or will it still stay strictly by the bullet dia? (I know some places say .30 cal but they are OK with 7mm, probably the latter but you never know, probably skip this question) 8. Does the cartridge hold consistency from cold/hot climates? 9. Lastly, is this another round that even though it can shoot real fast projectiles, will it preform better accuracy wise at lower speeds?
I didn’t jump on the 7PRC band wagon, because there ain’t enough difference between 7PRC and 7 REM mag. I have a 7RUM and a 7Rem mag. This is what I’ve been waiting for. New engineering. Got 2 Q Fix rifles in 8.6 blackout. 8 inch barrel and a 16 inch. Have a 16 inch 308 barrel as well. The 8.6 inch a 16 inch barrel 160 grain TTSX @ 2400 fps will pound and ground whatever it hits. Great 300 yard gun. Need to speed the twist rates up and engineer new powders and shell casings. Headed in the right direction
smaller diameter case head equals less bolt thrust which equals less recoil. you couldn't get the velocities out of the magnums in short barrels because they use a slower burning powder to get their velocities. faster burning powders in them would blow pressures to high for the magnums cases.
More bells and whistles. I don't need or want a new caliber every month. I really don't want one I can't reload. Having a steel case is not a positive for this cartridge.
Are the rifles going to have to be beefed up and stronger to handle the pressure? Would a Tikka T3x, a Remington 700, or a Ruger American be able to handle the chambering/pressure?
0:03 My first thought was "7mm Ruger Compact Magnum". But then you said steel case and High pressure. I'm curious about the powder, Superformance? Had Ruger NOT put their name on RCM, instead calling it "300 compact magnum" it might have taken off? I hoarded brass and really enjoy mine.
Advertising trick from the company so that you give more and more money, money)) Just take the old 30.06, charge 208g. ELD-M, Retumba, H1000 and get a speed of 810-820m/s. You will still have excellent G-7 BC-0.335. Never worry about brass. Huge barrel resource. Will cut down Elk.
Interesting. I'm interested in the rest of the "Backcountry" lineup. Not a big 7mm fan. Never thought the PRC lineup was good enough to justify a new gun. Guess I'll stay tuned and see some data and groups at distance. Thanks for the video.
What’s barrel life look like for this? Also after seeing what has happened with 6.8 Western and 7mm PRC I’m not really getting excited for new cartridges.
Sorry guys. Didn’t show group sizes because I was self-filming this day and I missed recording some parts. Will show in next video.
Also, the graphic at 3:03 is supposed to say 23.1 INCHES of bullet drop not Yards.
more like inches bro....
@michaelficarro2591 my thoughts exactly 😂
I was thinking kilometers...
Inches, not feet or yards…
@@backfire Jim will get it right eventually! 😂
Don’t want new cartridges. Want 30.06 for 10 dollars a box.
I'm with you!
yes sir
10? I wish. But yeah, 30-06 all day. These new brews don't add much other than something for people to talk about.
@ I would use plastic case and primer case. Only metal would be the lead. Design a gun to handle it. Sell ammo cheap. Take a loss,by selling the gun so cheap,and make money off ammo.
Heck, I'd settle for $20!
Would be pretty cool if federal and others could find a way to produce primers at a substantially, reduced price for the rest of the world while chasing these abstract cartridges that are admittedly still very cool. But boy, I miss cheap reloading supplies
This is an absolutely cool cartridge, that I fully expect, halfway hope, is a total flop. It’s simply not necessary. The guys who can justify the extra cost of ammunition and the rifles won’t care that it’s obscure in 3yrs.
amen... just decided to get into reloading specifically to make some lighter loads for my daughter for hunting, and small pistol primers were 10c a piece! hard to save money reloading when a single primer is the same price as some companies entire reloaded cartridge!
They're busy making a cartridge you can't reload! No need for you to have primers now!😂
Another American gimmic.... Let's unpack a bit.... The ideal gas law ((Pv=T) simplified) states that if the volume is object is constant but the pressure is increased then the temperature will increase in a direct relationship with the pressure increase as well iow 'barrel burn' will increase... However since the powder volume of the 7prc is circa 80gr and the 7mm Backcountry is 60gr, noted that the PRC is 65 000 psi with 80gr powder at 3000ft/sec will burn a barrel out circa 1500rds... So to achieve a velocity of 3120ft/sec with 25% less powder the only solution is to increase the burn rate of the powder to cause extreme gas expansion and increase the pressure in the case to 80 000psi... as per the law indicated above this will mean that there will be a significant temperature increase. So what is Federal not telling the public: 1. The powder selection is of a faster burnrate than the 280AI, 7Rim mag and 7PRC in order to achieve 3000+ ft/sec out of a 16" barrel 2. It's not a short action (mmm thought you could only shoot PRS with a short action ...haven't we been told 'short actions are best for agggges' mmm and 3.Now they running to the 'old cartridges' design as to dampen the burnrate to some degree and so you can 'put another cartridge in the mag' ... So what is this cartridge designed to replace .... no not the 7 PRC its designed to replace the .280AI, 7 Rem Mag, .270 Win, .280 Remington ... and why is this a load of nonsense simply because it already sits in a long action which wont be adopted by the PRS or F-class community ... so its focused at the hunting community to knock the above cartridges out ... BUT here comes the BIIIIIIIG problem ethical hunting distances is not governed by distance, distance is a result of flight time... in other words no person will ethically hunt beyond a bullet with a flight time of more than 1/2 a second (simply as too much can happen in that 1/2 sec not to speak of the 1/2 sec it takes you to make the decision to shoot and pull the trigger) ....so allll this additional energies is meaningless simply because this bullet very similar to the 7Rem mag, 280 AI etc reaches around 400-45- yards in .5sec so the additional energy you have with this round at that distance is meaningless because all the 'old' cartridges still retain over 1500ft of energy at those MAX ethical hunting distances. Apart from the fact that a deer cant even see you anymore beyond 400yards so then its not hunting anyway its 'shooting at something with a heart beat' .... so in short this cartridge 'solve a problem that doesn't exist' but like all crappy tasting cheap easter eggs its being packaged in a nice bit of colored foil with a bunny on... in this case the foiled and bunny is '80 000psi' but yes you will find fools that'll buy this... and that's how the manufacturers stay in business.... dumb money !
@@shetlerjl I miss just being able to get primers and not having to hoard them
30-06 and 270 still chugging along just fine.
they sure are, but there is nothing wrong with innovation.
You got that right! I'll save my money for ammo, and some gas and snacks to get there! I have no want or need for any new cartridge.
@@Sh0ckInAweexactly, I got all the old cartridges and they are great but I'm for sure also gonna try out the new ones. If you just like one do it all cartridge great, I'm here to try em all 😂😂😂
Cry about it
60 year old sako wood stock that shoots lights out. No need to change here. 280 in a lighter stock for backcountry. Not changing that either.
The mild recoil is most probably explained by excessive pressure at the muzzle that makes your muzzle break work more effective.
That is a really good insight. I wonder how far we can push pressures to in the future while not increasing recoil?
Its still going to increase recoil. But perhaps not as linear with a good compensator.@@ManjaroBlack
Ohh. good thinking there my man
I noticed this same thing with a featherweight Carbon Fiber/Titanium 6.5 PRC.
It recoiled less than any .260 Rem or 6.5 CM I've ever shot, and I've shot a lot of 6.5-08 class cartridges since the 2000s.
Also, time. . . how fast the cartridge is burning . . . impulse.
Looks like it should be a good thing, but all I want from federal is some primers!!
With all this popularity for 7mm caliber cartridges, we will see a resurgence in the 7mm-08. It’s the most underrated hunting caliber on the market.
OK, the 7mm-08 is a good cartridge but basically a remarketed version of the 7x57 Mauser invented in 1892. If the 7mm-08 had been named the 7x51, which is what it is, not one person would have ever bought it. The Mauser casing has 8.5 grains more powder capacity. than the 7mm-08. The 7mm-08 is just a typical American marketing ploy. But true to your claim, it's an underrated cartridge and a good one.
Yup, and there’s tons of 7x57 Mauser ammo out there on shelves too, so why do we need a 7mm-08, right? 🙄🙄🙄 Oh wait, I forgot 7x57 isn’t a short action, so I guess the comparison is kinda stupid after all.
@@thomaskolditz4293everything is a remade version of something else you 🤡
“Hold my beer hornady. Let me show you how to send a 7mm”
🍺🍺
😂
I agree. Hornady makes good ammo. But I'm glad to see another manufacturer go head to head with them. Mainly because everyone turned their back on Winchesters 6.8 cartridge. I would love to see more firearm manufacturers produce rifles in the 6.8. Everyone blew up the 7 PRC, I wouldn't give up my 7 remington mag for the velocity the 7PRC IS throwing down range.
To bad federal failed at the accuracy part.
@@christianwiseman3712 you better re think that.
The article from outdoor life said that RCBS is making reloading does for it, but they're having trouble figuring it out. They said they have to run it through the resizing die "over a dozen times" to get it right. So we'll see how that goes.
worth it, we can cut 8 to 10 inches of barrel and still get good velocity. I'm not into this cartridge in particular, but imagine where the trend goes. Your 5.56 carbine ammo could get 2800 fps from a 10.5. That's a game changer
@ I think high pressure is definitely where things are heading. I just hope reloading technology will keep up.
So, they are finally loading a 280 Remington to full potential, lol. All that it needed was a steel case.
Essentially what is happening. I was looking for another rifle to build and I was just gonna do another 6.5 creedmoor but this has my attention
@mr.caceres305 i wouldn't do it, its almost impossible to reload, so if it flops you won't be able to get ammo
Is it 280 rem or akly?
280 rem is the best cal on this planet
Do u really think that,I really love my 280 rem ,I never understood why it’s so dam hard to find shells for a good cal like that,the 280 akly is a dam good one to,never had one but I do have 280 rem
Holy cow that’s awesome!! But still not giving up the old .308
While I agree, I'm seeing so many people starting to abandon their .308s in such volumes, that most shops in my town won't even take them in because they simply can't flip them.
that's because of Bidenomics and high food prices.. not because they're trading them in for $9000 rifles.
@@surq0784I think everyone who wants a .308 already has one . Guys who have a full cabinet and are buying a new rifle already have a .308 in the back . They see no reason to have another. They will be looking for something different
Ok guys I’m being sarcastic lol. But where I hunt a 30- 125y shot is the norm so long range isn’t a thing. Here a 300BO or 30-30 is fine. I use all the above. But Backfire does the best reviews and this looks like an awesome new round and kicks way less than my 300WM Tikka.
I’ve been in the market for a pre 2000 Remington 700 bdl in 308 and I can’t find one! I’ve bid on a couple on GB but my limit was $1100 and got out bid.
The biggest advantage of high pressure is with shorter barrels. The propellant in high-pressure loads have roughly the same amount of energy as normal ones, but with the high pressure, more work is done on the bullet within the first few inches of the barrel travel.
My big concern: it’s being marketed as a backcountry system, shorter and lighter. It’s right on the verge of magnum performance from a short barrel. It’s at 80k psi…. Your short light suppressors all have minimum barrel requirements for magnum calibers (which are traditionally 60-62k psi) of 22-24” and Federal markets this for 20” barrels with rifle manufacturers obviously using shorter barrels. The suppressors that can handle this are not lightweight which ends up defeating the whole backcountry marketing.
What is the muzzle pressure on that 16"? Which suppressors will be able to handle that?
I’m unsure of what the pressure will be at the muzzle of the 16” barrel. As for the suppressors I’m sure those with no barrel restrictions like the DA Sandman, Rugged Radiant, or Rex.
Going to do some pressure modeling to see when I get a free hour.
The purpose of hunting with a suppressor is not to lighten the rifle…
I might just stick with my brake...
“I was extraordinarily skeptical” that makes two of us
How about the barrel wear?
@@Ben-g5d8d it can only be terrible. 80 thousand psi!
@FightinWinchukian-i1x eye popping breech pressures need super heavy actions. When I last looked, the game is not armoured plated. I can see a lot of bolt eating in the future...
@ yeah it's getting crazy lol
Higher pressure means burning the powder faster and more completely in a given area. It’s throwing less powder overall and even at the same volume less unburnt powder at your barrels throat, improving the wear rate.
I was wondering about this. Does higher pressure also mean more chemical energy converted into kinetic energy, and less heat? The same way a diesel engine can more efficiently turn fuel into torque, with less wasted converting into heat vs. a gasoline engine because of the higher compression ratio? Maybe we need a collaboration video, Engineering Explained/Backfire? Lol
@@heuy1216 Definitely. More efficient.
This must be why federal is refusing to make 6.8 western. It would compete with their “innovation”
This was my thought as well. 6.8 western would greatly hurt sales on this new cartridge
But then why did they make 7prc which is obviously the direct competition?
They followed suit with hornady. Hornady blackballed it as soon as it was announced.
Also, winchester hasn't lost the mindset from the old days of we'll be sole maker & make a fortune initially, then let everyone else join in later. 21 sharp kinda same thing, Win short mag chamberings, they have an mo that they aren't changing.
@@HoffnerPrecision
Because the 7 PRC crave made them too much money NOT to produce. The 6.8 Western release was a horrible time with the pandemic. You couldn’t get the rifle when you could get ammo. Then you couldn’t get ammo once you obtained the rifle. Horrible timing, only to have Hornady release the 7 PRC and their claimed numbers put hunters, writers, and hosts into a frenzy.
The 6.8 Western never stood a chance. It’s a shame because it’s an exceptional cartridge. You can get a 170 grain bullet traveling at 2,840 out of a 20” barrel with the Western.
Then there’s Hornady, who refused to support it, and they literally blackballed the cartridge.
@@jimedick9496 the whole timeline doesn’t make sense to me. I’ve always thought that they didn’t make 6.8 western because they knew the 7prc was coming out and it would take all the steam out of 6.8. It did exactly that, but a big part of the reason 6.8 didn’t make it big was because federal didn’t support it. I don’t know why they would initially support 7prc by allowing Alliant to provide RL26 powder, which is why 7prc was so good for a while, then pulling RL26 from Hornady, developing their own ammo that actually does meet the claims for a short period, then as far as I can tell, pulling their own ammo off the market so prc looks bad again, then releasing 7 backcountry. They’ve obviously been working on designing this for quite some time because they have multiple companies making rifles already. Seekins completely redesigned the PH2 for new high pressure rounds. Why would they have produced 7prc ammo for such a short period of time when they knew that they were going to do everything they could to kill it in the near future?
I think the whole thing was planned from the beginning to make both 6.8 western and 7prc look bad so people would be eager to switch to 7 backcountry.
Alltera firearms did a real great job at data and field testing. The Backcountry is not all its cracked up to be. A must watch
Thanks for keeping us up to date Jim. Good luck on the elk hunt !
jmp
I jumped at the .260 Rem cartridge about 20 years ago and although it’s a nice one and I still shoot it, finding commercial ammo is getting harder. I don’t have gun collector level of money so I would stick with the more time tested calibers until this is proven to be a long lasting cartridge.
Thinking about reloading?
Imagine 260 in new steel case. Now match or beat 264 WM hot loads.
I bought my 260 as soon as they were available back in the 90s. Still have it. It's the do everything rifle for me. I have plenty other calibers and platforms. But if I could only have one gun it would be my old 700 rem, .260.
Hand loaders left the chat @3:30
Be sure to listen at 14:34 though 😀
you can reload steel
@@BG-Freedom Maybe, I would suggest someone de-prime a fired 7BC case and take a good look at the primer/primer pocket. One of Federal's recently granted patents directly addressed some proprietary and novel primer/flash hole designs to deal with the 80+ksi cartridge pressures.
Haha I almost stopped watching. Going away from brass is a bold move but maybe it’ll pay off.
@@BlownF150 ron spomer has a video where there's a case cut in half. Check it out
Physics says "no free lunch". The reason it kicks less is that giant muzzle brake on the front.
Yep, me too. 200 f/sec over my ‘06, will not make/allow me sped $2500 on a new rifle, and spend $1000 on new reload dies, for hardened steel cases. 🧐 Really cool looking rifle you tested. Great info and perspective on the 7mm BC, good job!
You can reload 6.8x51 cases. There's a guy on Sniper's Hide who uses them to make .308, spitting 220s at 300 Win Mag speeds.
16" lightweight .308 AR-10 does 168gr at 24" bolt gun speeds.
@@LRRPFco52 or you can buy sm or lrg primer alpha brass and do it also. UR had a 215gr (i believe) at 2600fps in an alpha loaded. 308 case. Bam, lol
Amen, nuff said
I think you completely neglected to mention the fact your 30-06 won’t get near that velocity with the shorter barrel and for sure couldn’t even keep up in the heavier range that’s dominated by the PRCs.
@@onebadjack1313 UR was using a pretty long barrel when he exceeded the SAAMI MAP of .308 and went into those intentional pressure excursions.
The 6.8x51 necked up to .308 was done with a 16" barrel. The 1x fired cases are a lot more affordable than Alpha or Lapua Palma brass.
Did a QL simulation using a 280AI and a 175 Fed SP Trophy Bond. Numbers aren't exact, but wanted to see if there's a powder that might get 3000 at 80KPSI and get near 100 burn with a 20"barrel. Assumed 1.570" for bullet length. IMR7828SSC got real close, but it was a compressed charge. Be interested to see if they are using an available powder or some proprietary product.
I still don't regret buying my Bergara 7 PRC.
This round won’t change my mind about still eventually picking up a 7 prc tbh
I have several 7PRCs and a ton of 7RemMags. I ordered my first Bergara 7PRC Sierra Wilderness and it has shipped. Hoping it gets to my FFL tomorrow.
Ditto
Maaaaaaan I was so close to buying a 7 PRC Bergara HMR. I might wait for the 7 BC Bergara HMR.
Same.
1:22 “it’s just like movie makers, like they’re going to make number two of everything…” Indeed.
Jim, you hit the nail on the head. Before even seeing your video, I told my hunting friends the exact same thing about where we are going. The 277 Fury hybrid case just started it all. Federal saw the tech and doubled down.
Higher pressure cartridges are here to stay and I think the early ones to the game will be the most prominent and adopted.
The 7mm Backcountry does what everyone wishes the 300WM and all of the short mags should have done before. 3000fps on higher BC bullets out of shorter barrels without the punishment on the shoulder.
I was strongly leaning towards a 7mm PRC or 6.8 Western, but looking at the rifle launch for the Backcountry, I may have to rethink my plans. The 277 Fury just didn’t justify what I wanted a hunting round to do out to 300-400 yards.
Couldn’t a 270 Winchester do exactly what this cartridge did if you loaded it up with same powder? And say a 175gr game king?
Agreed. I think anyone who reloads will stay away though due to the steel case.
@@briankinzer4175 my guess is no…. .284 at higher pressure & velocity with a high BC bullet should have more KE. That being said, I’m a 270 fan and always will be…. It was ahead of its time and can take anything down in the U.S.
@ 270 would have the higher bc would it not, beings it’s a 175gr .277 caliber it’s longer for caliber than the bullets listed for he 7mm backcountry.
@@briankinzer4175 just the high BC alone is topped by the 7 BC. The 270 win rifles are spec’d with 1:10 twist, which is not fast enough to stabilize a higher BC bullet. This is where most of the modern cartridges excel… the marketing did a better job of rifle to bullet pairing.
Can't find Federal premium ammo up here in Canada right now. I'm looking for 7prc, 300win, 30-06. It's very limited, I wish Federal would just focus on the supply before creating something new.
@@RustyM80 might get better when Canada becomes the 51st state
Long range shooters wondering what kind of speeds we can get out of longer barrels and how fast we will burn through barrels.
In longer barrels you’d basically be getting 28 nosler numbers.
Yes maybe more ,,but with 25 gr less powdrer,, so maybe better barrel life
I was wondering if using steel could revive some old cartridges.
@@dirtcurt1 could you imagine this in like a 30-06 or something? Getting 300 weatherby performance?😅 that would be insane.
@@jam5287seen some rumors and scuttlebutt about 308 putting up 300 win mag numbers with these peak alloy cases. I think that would raise a lot of eyebrows. Especially elk hunters
Great video and I love how objective you are about it! Those numbers really don’t lie and we appreciate your opinions on things like recoil.
I’ve been saying that steel/hybrid case design is the logical next step to existing cartridges for awhile, but I didn’t think I’d see it this soon. I’m stoked to see where the industry goes with this technology. And even more so for the comments sections filled with fudds when steel/hybrid cased Creedmoors & the PRCs get the same treatment. What a wild time to be alive in the shooting world.
@@longrangeautist6117 a steel alloy 6.5 creedmoor would be the bees knees for me here in East Texas. I want to build another 6.5 creedmoor but this 7 Backcountry has my ears perked up
I was shocked to find out how slow these new designed rifles poke along. Reloaded 7 Mag with a 160 Nos moves on pretty fast and my last few shots were close enough for the range.
@ supposedly federal is releasing a whole line of “backcountry” cartridges so no telling what’s in store. Probably a 6.5 option and a 30cal option
Nice and interesting improvements for those who are eager to try something “new”. I am all in favour of new research and development. Being an 84 year old meat hunter, I learned to avoid high velocity meat destroyers, the reasons I gave up the .300 Win and Wby and the 7 mm magnums. Settled on a .308 Win in the end. However you guys enjoy playing with the new stuff.
The concept of high pressure cartridges may stick around but I have a feeling this will go the way of the 224 Valkyrie, 277 Fury, etc. It’s not going to take hold out with serious precision rifleman.
Jim, I think one thing that’s worth definitely talking about will be barrel life. Jayden Quinlan from Hornady did his podcast about barrel life and cleaning. Jaden mentioned that not only is the heat cause erosion of the barrel but the pressure and the higher the pressure, the shorter the barrel life so when you’re increasing this pressure to 80,000 psi through the barrel as well, barrel life‘s gonna be even shorter. They talk about a 264 win mag mag back in the 60s being a barrel burner this one will be certainly be a barrel burner and really shorten barrel life. Nice work Jim!
I've found hornady to be notably biased. Just look in their manual and look at the powder for powder, apples to apples charge weights and velocities they get out of their cartridges vs old standards, and compare that to other manuals like Lyman's, who have no dog in the fight.
But how much does barrel life really matter? They're not expensive to replace a few times over the life of a gun. If I can improve my experience with the gun by possibly replacing the barrel a few times then ok sounds good.
In a time of war barrel life would matter, but that's it.
I'm more concerned about ammo availability & price , then barrel life .
@@cheatinggravity173I can see that. Probably valid.
@@LetsberealishGood point. Maybe I just sell my 300wsm and go this route for my low round count hunting rifle.
I'll tell you right now, if Ruger puts out an American MK2 chambered in this, 24" barrel, I'm going to go grab one immediately!!!!!
I've been torn between the. 308 , 6.5 prc, 7mm -08 and the .300 win mag. I'll specifically be targeting Pronghorn (speed goats) and Elk.
I'll also be ordering a Backstop recoil pad for it 👊💪 you've been my favorite source of rifle information (Ron Spomer too) for quite some time now. I thank you for all you do for us!
I'd wait and see how much ammo costs and how easy it is to buy.
@@nathanadrian7797solid advice.
I will wait until they neck it down to 6 mm to get more velocity out of it.
@@nathanadrian7797 I'm honestly not concerned with that in my area.
@@PassivePortfolios why do you want more velocity and a tiny little bullet? There's already multiple options that fit that need. What's your reasoning?
Will be really interesting if that case technology can be directly applied to other existing cartridges and allow them to be reloaded at 80k PSI too.
It’s fairly well known at this point that due to specific powder shortages Hornady ammo for the 7prc is almost laughably slow compared to other offerings. Running something like N565 or N570 velocities over 3000 for are fairly easily achievable in a 22” barrel with a 175 gr bullet. At least that is what I’ve seen I my own reloading.
people should really understand that handloading your ammo opens an universe of possibilityes with your rifle that is totally closed with factory ammo. but somebody simply refuses to learn...
I absolutely share the same experience. 22” bergara, N570 and ELDX right around 3010 with no pressure
I’ll keep my 7x57. One of, if not the most versatile 7mm cartridge!
Such a versatile cartridge that the Brits renamed it .275 Rigby and claimed it as their own.
I wish there were more companies chambering for it. Aside from a couple new production Mauser options the only options I can find are surplus guns or super high end custom rifles.
@ very true, but you can buy barrels and actions to build one, or use an action you already have. Really doesn’t cost to much. Especially if you just buy one piece at a time. Just set yourself a budget.
African Hunter W M D Bell killed more than 800 elephants with that cartridge
@ Yes he did!
My mind will be blown if it manages to be more popular than 30 super carry
That is cruel and hilarious
New cartridges = newest dead cartridges 😂
.327 fed more like it
I think this will enjoy some short term popularity. Having similar performance out of a shorter barrel is such a huge advantage. The problem is: the floodgates are now open. Everyone is going to be developing better rounds based on higher chamber pressures now with different case materials. .277 fury will stick around simply because the military uses it. But other eary designs like this will probably become obsolete very quickly as the technology is refined.
Love the videos - cool cartridge. I find it best to be at least five years behind whatever cartridges is the newest .. greatest and latest. At least then I’ll know if I can count on regular ammunition supply and optimized firearms to be available. Basically, if Ruger American puts it in its lineup It’s good to go forward with… or at least I’ll have many options to choose from both budget and high-end. Still tough to beat the 243, 270, and a 300 win. Covers you from young to old and for all game in North America. Thank Jim 👍🇺🇸
As a handloader I will be curious which fast burning powder is required, and primer size. As a machinist, I am curious about the steel alloy and how to prevent the necks from splitting.
They gotta get off the meth with all these new cartridges. It's like a bunch of tweaker engineers are staying up for weeks at a time just inventing new rounds just to invent new rounds
The 7mm Ultra Mag, and 7mm STW are snickering at the new kid. Steel cases and 80,000 psi make me cringe.
I'm never knowingly going to shoot a cartridge with 80,000 PSI. Xero chance
The whole point of the alloy casing is to eat the pressure. The stiff shoulder is meant to keep the powder burning inside the casing building more pressure to use less powder to achieve the same numbers.
Ok now imagine a 7mm ultra with a steel case at 80k PSI. It would be even more potent this technology will slowly creep to other calibers. Imagine a 30-06 performing like a 300 win mag
You know, Jim, I agree with everything you're talking about here . What I think would be more important and impressive would be to upgrade modern components like making steel alloy case's across the board for all cartridges/calibers.That would take everything in the shooting/hunting world to the next level in performance. If we could push 80,000-PSI in our cartridges . Thank about it the 6.5-CM with normal pressure. 140gr 2750fps 22in barrel. Now put 80,000-PSI behind the 140gr 6.5-CM 3100fps. When you can add roughly 20,000 more PSI to the existing cartridges, you get a tremendous increase in velocity and performance. So maybe just maybe WE , THE PEOPLE with BIG VOICES like you, Jim with Backfire, can get with one of these companies and convince them to create a better, stronger case/cartridge for higher pressures of 80,000+PSI using steel alloy across the boad . A new line or bread of cases with reloading components. Now, that would be something remarkable, wouldn't it. They can come out with new cartridges every day, but until we start using newer, better technologies and materials, all we keep trying to do is reinvent the wheel, and that makes no sense at all . Their has been no change to the components of the cartridge other than changing the degree of the sholders of the cartridge in over 100 years . Let's ban together and get some better results across the board for all cartridges. Can I get an AMEN. God bless you and your family.God bless america 🇺🇸 🇨🇱🇺🇲 🇨🇱🇺🇲🇨🇱🇺🇲🇨🇱.
Do chambers, actions, etc need to be beefed up as well to deal with those extreme pressures? I know for sure it would in AR patterned rifles
In an AR platform, yes, for sure in a bolt action, maybe. It would depend on if it was an older rifle, say from the 60s to 2000s it might now be able to handle those pressures . The new materials they use today for our modern rifles can handle some insane pressures .
Yes and barrel life would be remarkably shorter. Probably close to 1500 rounds or less for a 6.5 Creedmoor @@MrCashewkitty
You can’t reload steel cases. That would basically kill every wildcat cartridge in existence and make guns made before the steel case swap obsolete
Unfortunately that will never happen. Every single cartridge would have to be redone because you can’t make high pressure ammo for an existing cartridge that is meant to shoot its regular sammi spec ammo. Putting an 80,000 psi load in grandpas old 30-06 might not be good
Awesome video breaking down the cartridge!
New cartridges have risen and fallen like dominos in the last few years. Only time will tell.
spot on
Thanks for the chapters!
Really enjoy your videos. Thank you for letting me experience some of the new and upcoming firearms and ammunition, that I will probably never buy, but love the information. Definitely entertaining.
Here today... Gone yesterday. 😎
Federal doesn't seem to have many successful cartridges. But hey maybe this one is different...
Mark this day in history.. I hereby declare at 4pm on January the 7th, 2025 that high pressure is the future of ballistics 🤣😂😆 Seriously though, they have to do something. They've played around in the 50-60k realm about as much as the can. I think if they can do it without torching barrels it will catch on. Seekins dropped every rifle model they have and went with all new designs anticipating higher pressure rounds in the near future. Look at all the high end manufacturers he mentioned. Companies don't jump on board like that unless they have insider knowledge and know where things are going. That 7 backcountry has probably been in development for 2 years or more from conception to release. They're probably testing 10+ other calibers right now and staging the releases to keep sales at peak.
You mean like the .224 Valkyrie?
Glad to see real velocities from the 7 prc instead of the hornady lies
So a 30-06 style case, interesting for sure, but have never had an itch for anything 7mm, but the 270/6.8 is another story! Thanks for sharing
Initially when this cartridge was introduced, I thought, here we go again, another cartridge we don't need. After watching more content on this cartridge, I am seriously considering picking one up. I like that it would combine all the features I want from a cartridge. Supreme performance in a standard sized cartridge and less recoil.
I’d like to know how the primers can take that pressure.
Exotic primers
Steel case maybe they are threaded in the case. 🤣
watch Allterra Arms video on this, the primers are damn near falling out of the case after each shot
So correct me if I'm wrong the muzzle velocity is faster than at the end of the barrel. So a shorter barrel should be a tad faster! A little bit of tricking the mind into believing it's faster. Ron Spomer what's your thoughts?
Of course I just bought a 7Prc and haven't even shot it yet. And now this comes out!
I feel your pain.
Same bud
I'll make a prediction before anyone has even bought a rifle in 7 backcountry. It'll be on life support in less than 5 years. In 20 years, the 7 PRC will be more available than it is now.
That's how it always works.
The question that comes to mind: How will Hornady respond? Will they come out with a PRC-S(teel)? Same dimensions, higher pressure.
Super interesting! I like the direction they are going with this ammo. Excited to hear more about this. Thank you for sharing.
28 nosler is my favourite but I like them all
My uncle had a 7mm STW he was pretty proud of.
Remains to be seen if these are reloadable. We were told 224 Valkyrie was reloadable, but the primer pockets only lasted 3 firings avg. This is a hunting cartridge for hunters. As a target shooter, I'm out.
Depends on brass quality, and federal makes garbage brass.
Peterson makes brass that can take proof loads in stride. They have been for years. Steel cases are not required for 80k psi.
Polaised Jim?
Well I'm in two minds, and both of them love seeing people losing their minds over fun things that don't cause the sky to fall
hahaha...getting the popcorn to watch (and learn) and be entertained.
Top job!
For those of you who look at the comments first, the 7 back country just duplicates 28 nosler ballistics in a 30-06 diameter steel case with a similar C.O.A.L, it does this by using pressures in excess of 70k psi, because of its steel case it’s extremely difficult or impossible to reload your own ammunition.
In other words just get a 28 nosler, it’s already here and available, the 7 back country despite their claims will have a similar barrel life because of the temperature of the powder they will have to use to produce those velocities, and the 28 nosler can be reloaded unlike the 7 back country despite their
The pressure is 80,000 psi and the case is designed to be reloaded.
@@landenrobbins9936because of the pressure this will burn barrels even worse than 28 nosler so instead of 800 barrel life you might get 600
@@leonhart2452its not really reloadable, they said it's possible to reload under very specific conditions so basically you are gunna need special equipment and might get one or 2 loadings pre case
@@tatsuhirosatou5513You sure about that? I thought barrel burn was related to the speed of the bullet, and this is the same as the PRC. It's just doing it with a shorter barrel.
What if? One was to have a 26" barrel? Would velocity increase? Decrease ? Majority of powder burned in 20" barrel? Alloy cases resist corrosion? Many questions need answered.
Nobody has shown a target with groupings. I wonder why? 🤔
Yeah I feel like the accuracy might be rough judging by the high pressures etc etc
@Colok10 remember the .224 same thing happened. We shall see
Spomer did show groups. It’s coming im sure
Great work. 👏👏👏
Sorry about that. Cameramahan Garrett was off this day and I was self-filming and missed it. Will show in next video on this cartridge.
What do I think? Knee jerk reaction: skeptic. So I'm going to keep shooting my tricked out 300WM Model 700 w/ 26" barrel until the wheels fall off. I suspect much of the recent developments has more to do with selling guns than ballistic advancement, for lack of a better word. And, I ain't stacking my obsolete gear at the curb on trash day. The real advancement is improving the case, promoting increased operating pressures and that can be done with any existing cartridge, like maybe my 90+year old 270W? Yes, I know the BC might not be quite as good but I can live with it.
Can you make a video about reloading these steel cases. Looks good, but lots of unanswered questions
The website says it can be hand loaded. I would just hope it didn’t have to be trimmed ever. That nickel plating is hard on the trimmer
I am by no means a ballistician so could be completely wrong, but would have thought that barrel life would be worse than 28 Nosler, not better, as the higher pressure results in far greater peak flame temperature, which is what primarily wears out a barrel. This is why cartridges like 7*57 and 6.5*55 have a reputation for long barrel life, as they operate at a lower pressure despite having relatively large case volumes for their bore diameter.
That's a crazy amount of energy for a short barrel!
It’s built to withstand 80,000 psi. That’s even higher pressure than something like a 50 BMG. Lol
Barrel wear ?!
@@jam528750 bmg doesn’t run at a higher psi than any other modern caliber so that’s not really saying anything. 5.56, .308, .270, and pretty much all hunting calibers run at a higher psi than it.
@@PassivePortfoliosit will be worse than 28 nos.
@@Josh-uf1rv Exactly.
Jim how much concussion does 80,000 psi with a muzzle break and 16” of barrel produce? I’d be shocked if there wasn’t a noticeable difference between 26” 62000 psi, and 16” 80,000 psi. I would think that would be an instant headache recipe without a suppressor.
So it wants to be the 7mm Weatherby? Jim, stop hating on Weatherby.
A weatherby with a 16in barrel wouldnt come close.
We need your backfire TV recoil readings, Asap
Thanks Jim, I appreciate your work making the video. Heavy sigh at another new cartridge that looks great on paper, but in the end doesn't really do anything more than a ton of other cartridges inside of 600 yards. imo.
I don’t understand your comment. Looks to me like it does a lot more than the existing 7mag and prc. That much of a increase in velocity is super meaningful for hunters, extending MPBR, extending range at which tough bullets (eg Barnes) will expand, ability to run more compact rifles.
@@phild9813 it matches 7 mag performance which is better than PRC but in a shorter barrel.. heck I would love to have this in a 16.5”. That would be a handy rifle to have. Precision network is wrong on this one.
Thanks for your explanation. It helps knowing it's not just gobs of powder.
This cartridges success hinges on the ammo quality since it won’t be reloadable for the foreseeable future. If the groups and sd’s aren’t tight it’s probably not going to make it.
Will they make it in federal blue box ?📦 😊
Shorter barrel and higher chamber pressure would mean high pressure at the muzzle. Is it possible that makes the muzzle brake more effective at reducing recoil?
Short barrel life with high pressures.
Pressure has little to nothing to do with barrel life. It's the abrasive wear caused by unburned powder that will cause erosion. This will use a faster burning power and less of it.
@ The higher the chamber pressure, the hotter the powder flame, and the shorter the barrel life.
You don't know nothing
@howardjohnson541 Wrong, high temps are caused by the volume of burning powder in relation to bore diameter, not the pressure. For example, 308 and 6.5 creedmoor both run at 62000 psi, however 6.5 has a shorter barrel life, because the powder to bore ratio is higher
A specific powder type and volume are capable of producing significant pressure differences in a rifle even though it has the exact same amount of potential energy. How? Pressure is created by how fast the gasses expand and how easily they have a place to go. That's why a plugged barrel would explode with significantly less powder than a free barrel.
So if federal controls Alliant powders, I guess this explains why we can’t get RL26 to make 7prc perform up to potential. Also explains why Federal 7prc ammo has been so hard to find. They’re trying to make the prc underperform so it looks bad, so they can kill it with the backcountry.
To me this is splitting hairs. I can't see any benefit in changing calibers when I have my old Remington 700 30-06 with a 25.5-inch barrel throwing 165 grain Speers at an average of 3015 fps.
That set up is what we use for elk and deer. If I need bigger I will just pull out my 338 win mag. I also have 308's that I load for my wife and ARs. I am the type that just upgraded my 10 year old cellphone. If it isn't broke why change. Plus I know my guns and their capabilities and limitations.
Are you shooting those rifles with a suppressor? That's where this new cartridge will shine. Shorter suppressed rifles shooting the same velocity as longer barreled unsuppressed ones.
Im on the same page. Id have to have 30 safes if I bought every new amazing thing that came out. I drive old trucks with good tires and shoot old cartridges with good glass.
No I put on a Shilen match grade barrel. I don't have any guns suppressed, Colorado is a mommy state, and I don't need them registering what I have. Nothing illegal just not any of their business what I own.
I guess out in Colorado, swinging around a 25” barrel isn’t cumbersome. For me, having a handy short rifle that produces those insane velocities is what’s important.
Of course you can make the argument you don’t need it. But then why do you have 308s if your 06 does everything you need it to?
And you shouldn’t because you already have those. For me, I don’t have either, so I’ll get this if it makes sense.
Alpha srp brass, varget, cci primers, 175 gr 185gr bergers and 308 win. @ 75-80,000 psi 24 inch kreiger barrel been doing it just fine ill let you figure out the velocities
Impossible to get normal, older cartridges now, this one will be totally impossible to find...
Like what, you need to give some examples or something not just throw this out there without examples.
@@franklyfrustrating does mom still say here comes the airplane when you eat? If you have gone to ammo shop in a store then you should know already 😂
Where? Our stores and ONLINE have everything
@@BcFuTw9jt I must not shoot exotic cartiriges because there is ammo everywhere. I haven't had an issue since covid shortages. In fact I've had a hard time NOT buying ammo.
Look for .17 WSM, or a specific brand and weight. I live e in upstate New York, by the way...
"Higher pressure gets us shorter barrels."
That is not how that works; higher pressure is even better in a longer barrel. You just get more for your barrel length because of the pressure increase.
You actually believe that pushing a bullet at the same speeds as a .28 Nosler or 7 RSAUM out of a different cartridge design is going to make for a barrel that lasts? That is funny...that's now how rifle barrels work. As a guy that shot F-Open for many years I can tell you that isn't how things work...but you can dream.
What’s more funny is you don’t consider the effect of loading 30-40 percent less powder to do so. It’s not just a different shape or something incrementally different
@@brandonb6164 That's not actually funny. It's really simple. With a steel case you can burn a faster powder, which typically are smaller granules per grain. Not really a surprise. The downside is, faster powders do in fact, burn barrels out faster.
@@ChambersCustom not 30-40 percent less powder volume. 30-40 percent less powder mass. Faster powders burn out barrels faster for the same mass
Interesting, but I'm interested in the ability to load for them. Box ammo prices are just stupid.
It will take years for manufacturers to start chambering in this new cartridge. I’ll just take the old trusty 7 rem mag.
There are already like 8-9 firearms manufacturers chambering it.
Which ones? The only one in the video I can find is fierce. Plan to make and have them on the shelves are two completely different things.
God Dammit. I just finished my first fully custom built 7prc build.
7 backcountry- I wonder what velocities would be in a 24” or 26” barrel as I can’t run a suppressor in CA. Great video, I’m blown away that more companies haven’t figured out that steel case is better for higher pressure ? Thoughts?
That's it! Everybody sell your brand new 7 PRC's and buy the next latest greatest thing!
Never liked 7PRC enough to buy one in the first place.
@@mountedpatrolmansame
Lol literally dude….. I mean it never ends……
Many questions that you may or may not have answers to.
1. What is the expected life expectancy of these cartridges from reloading? 4 reload 8 reload?
2. The bump in fps from a 20 inch to a 24 inch seems kind of low (in my opinion) @150 fps considering things like our 6.5CM are getting around 250ish fps gain from the same added length. Will any accuracy increase make it more desirable to get a longer barrel?
3. What is the 1,000 yard velocity. I may have missed it but is it still super sonic?
4. What size groups can be gained with this cartridge?
5. Will the groups hold at 1,000 yards?
6. Does the bullet have an effective range for target/comp long range shooting or will the projectile start to tumble? 1,000-1,500 yards
7. The bullet dia is still sub .30 cal for some regions that require it for big game. Do you think with the higher energy than say things like a 6.5 cm that it will get a pass or will it still stay strictly by the bullet dia? (I know some places say .30 cal but they are OK with 7mm, probably the latter but you never know, probably skip this question)
8. Does the cartridge hold consistency from cold/hot climates?
9. Lastly, is this another round that even though it can shoot real fast projectiles, will it preform better accuracy wise at lower speeds?
On 2: if the powder is well designed with the intend to burn up in a 16-20in barrel, there may not be much powder left to burn in that extra 4 inches.
@@spudgamer6049 I understand that, but then why push longer barrel systems on the boxes if it was designed to fire from a shorter platform?
I didn’t jump on the 7PRC band wagon, because there ain’t enough difference between 7PRC and 7 REM mag. I have a 7RUM and a 7Rem mag. This is what I’ve been waiting for. New engineering. Got 2 Q Fix rifles in 8.6 blackout. 8 inch barrel and a 16 inch. Have a 16 inch 308 barrel as well. The 8.6 inch a 16 inch barrel 160 grain TTSX @ 2400 fps will pound and ground whatever it hits. Great 300 yard gun. Need to speed the twist rates up and engineer new powders and shell casings. Headed in the right direction
Thanks Jim for sharing as usual I enjoyed,, and that 280ai is going to be all I need and again thanks 👍🙏 wonderful job.
@3:15 That bullet drop at 400 is insane
I laughed when I saw that. Not a flattering typo!
Might not sell my 7mm PC just yet.....
Sorry about that. Should have said inches.
@backfire I know, just giving you some shit on a mistake.
smaller diameter case head equals less bolt thrust which equals less recoil. you couldn't get the velocities out of the magnums in short barrels because they use a slower burning powder to get their velocities. faster burning powders in them would blow pressures to high for the magnums cases.
More bells and whistles. I don't need or want a new caliber every month. I really don't want one I can't reload. Having a steel case is not a positive for this cartridge.
Are the rifles going to have to be beefed up and stronger to handle the pressure?
Would a Tikka T3x, a Remington 700, or a Ruger American be able to handle the chambering/pressure?
Everyone should watch the AllTerra Arms 7 backcountry video. Super honest, shows grouping, and no BS. You're welcome!
They are also heavily invested in Hornady cartridges, why didn't they compare it to Hornady factory ammo?
And Little Crow Gunworks vid series on 7mm's in general.
0:03 My first thought was "7mm Ruger Compact
Magnum". But then you said steel case and High pressure. I'm curious about the powder, Superformance? Had Ruger NOT put their name on RCM, instead calling it "300 compact magnum" it might have taken off? I hoarded brass and really enjoy mine.
Advertising trick from the company so that you give more and more money, money))
Just take the old 30.06, charge 208g. ELD-M, Retumba, H1000 and get a speed of 810-820m/s. You will still have excellent G-7 BC-0.335. Never worry about brass. Huge barrel resource. Will cut down Elk.
I wonder if powder burns better at higher pressures?
Interesting. I'm interested in the rest of the "Backcountry" lineup. Not a big 7mm fan. Never thought the PRC lineup was good enough to justify a new gun. Guess I'll stay tuned and see some data and groups at distance. Thanks for the video.
Great video!
Show the groups!!
Exactly! Boom boom means nothing. Still trying to reinvent the proven 7mm Rem. My 1991 A bolt loves 160 AB, H1000 @ 3065 fps.
What’s barrel life look like for this? Also after seeing what has happened with 6.8 Western and 7mm PRC I’m not really getting excited for new cartridges.