Tall Target Test (You need to do this): th-cam.com/video/12Wf0Cuwwi8/w-d-xo.html
9 หลายเดือนก่อน +8
Here are the timestamps: 1:45 1. Supporting the rear end of the rifle 2:27 2. Making sure your system is leveled 2:57 3. Scope level not set up correctly 4:10 4. Not having enough dialable elevation on the scope 6:04 5. Not having enough of the same ammo
All good points for beginners especially the different brands/weights of ammo/bullets. Until a person is told or they read it they don't know just how much that affects things. We all start at the same place, the beginning. Good vid.
Another thing to be aware of when buying multiple boxes (of the exact same ammo) is to be sure the batch numbers match up. That ensures all the ammo in all the boxes where produced on the same machine on the same day.
I made my own sandbags using old blue jeans, sewing sections of the legs up the middle, plus the lower leg for thinner bags. Then filling them with store bought sand. The side by side sand bags are great for stacking and I've never seen them offered anywhere. When shooting large bore magnums, you can put a sandbag between the butt pad and your shoulder.
Did long shooting for a while, with the cheapest 308 I could find (modified) with some of the cheapest accessories I could find, just to see if I anyone really need to spend thousands on something else. Some like it already to go and some like to put it together piece by piece. Got great results at 300 meters they were dead on. The feedback from the ones I sold to some of my friends were all positives, and happy with the results they were getting, it's been a while and got some good memories, but IMO you don't need to spend thousands on a long gun, and it is simple and fun to put something together that will do just as good for a lot less. 👍
Everyone has there own goals which is understandable. You can get surprisingly far with budget equipment. Many folks are going much further than 300 meters these days too.
300 meters is considered short range in full rifle cartridges (like the .308). Mid range is like 500 or 600, long range more like 800 plus. For reference, long range shooting at 300 meters is something you see in rimfire (i.e. 22lr) long range competition. It's long range to a rimfire. Nothing wrong with a short range .308 built in the cheap. Just saying: it is a short range .308 built on the cheap. Not a long range one. You can build a long range .308 for under $1k, but probably not by just grabbing "the cheapest accessories" you can find. Gonna have to go mid-range cost on at least a few items to get a good shooter.
I was watching a video once on what to take to a class. The #1 thing I took away from that video was "Always take more Ammo than required". I like to take 1.5 to 2 times the amount they require. I was at a Pistol course that suggested 250 rounds. I took 400. We progressed a bit faster than the time line suggested. Because most of us had extra ammo we were able to do more of the drills.
I’d also like to add having quality scope mounts that are properly torqued. I’ve never really shot past 200 yards and always thought shooting long range required tons of skill and expensive equipment. Not long ago I decided to shoot my Remington 770 .300wm out to 600 yards and was surprised that it wasn’t all that difficult. Hits weren’t consistent at 600 but everything from 300-400 was relatively easy.
Last summer I had first experience shooting past 300yds, going out to 900yds with a stock Ruger Precision Rifle and an accurized (blue printed) otherwise stock R700. Both .308 firing Fed GM Match 168gr SMK BTHP rounds. This with a Pro spotter coach using Applied Ballistic app. Previous to this event, I've routinely shot MoA accuracy with modest optics...Vortex Viper HST 6-24x50 on 20MoA rail. Verified zero at 100yrds, then walked out to 900, only adjusting elevation holding off for windage. In the end, repeated center of mass at 900. To your point Sir. Long range is not a function of multi-thousand dollar firearms and optics with good support i.e. front rest or bipod and rear bag. The ammo and well set up firearms can do amaxing things.
Another thing that can be overlooked with a brand new rifle out of the box or one that you already have. Check the torque on everything. Action screws, rail screws, ring screws. Get rid of movement in the components. Not only do you get zero faster, you don't have to chase it.
Rear bag was a total game changer for me. I was using my fist. Then while waiting for my bag to show up I used a rolled up swear shirt and it cut my groups in half. I just got a 10 dollar bag and filled it with rice. Works great. 2nd was the level. Got one that mounts to the scope mount. Whether it's level or not I don't know but it helps me to know I'm at the same angle every shot even if it's not perfect
Well said. You learn by overcoming mental barriers, and pushing your limits, but still in a way that allows you to learn rather than abject misses that can’t be spotted. Eventually, with enough skills and time, you will decide to spend a freaking fortune 😂 Such a rewarding sport and it doesn’t have to be out of reach of an average shooter if they get decent basic gear and practice.
You CAN do it. With a simple ACOG my children can easily make 300yrd hits. I am working them back to 600 yrds gradually. 👍 400 yrds or longer... You have a valuable skill set.
Good basics. Although, I shoot a lot, I can still learn a lot. I have a new 300 win mag that needs to be zeroed and I can appreciate some of the tips you have given. Thanks!
Good video. I agree about the level. Matter of fact, many mid to high grade scopes come with a level these days for just that reason .... or they are offered in kits. With that said, I'm the guy that is always going around straightening pictures hanging on walls so, like many, I have an eagle's eye for space and position when it comes to leveling things. (BTW, another way to do it, in the field, is to mount it while looking across a body of water like a lake or a pond. Anyways, liked, shared, commented, upvoted, subscribed, bell rung ... may the algorithm gods smile favorably upon your channel.
To maximize using the total scope adjustment I use Burris Signature rings. They come with inserts to tilt the scope as much as 40 moa. My 25-06 with the burris rings and a 30mm tube I can get out to 2200yds.
I 2nd these rings. Another use is to center your windage travel. This is like blueprinting your scope setup getting rid of all the inherent tolerance stacking. Always verify by doing a tall target.
@@DudeWayne29 I'd love to know two things. The first one is for your response, the second related to the OP's comment. How do you move the crosshairs left and right without spinning the turret? If it's an insert like these burris rings, how do you do both at the same time? How do the inserts center themselves in the ring bore - like so they aren't 5 degrees off, and you're actually moving elevation AND a little windage? Second question which is relatively incidental: I want the scope optically centered for windage, but do I really want it centered for elevation? Bullets only drop, and they only go above the sight line between the two points that they converge (the two zero points). So wouldn't I want to set the elevation where there's a TON of room to move the POI up, but only a little bit to go "down"? Sort of like the shooter in the video, but in reverse? Or would that mean I was looking toward the edges of the lenses, and I really want to be optically centered even though there's little to no reason to ever dope the scope "down"?
The ring inserts are thicker and thinner halves, by rotating the halves, you can move your POI left or right but you lose some of your elevation gain. As to looking though the center of the lenses, figure out the distance you need a clearer picture. if you plan to shoot 1,000 yards, then figure the center of your elevation in the scope turrets "C". Now figure your required elevation for 1,000 yards, say 25MOA. You would need need 5MOA from you rings along with the 20MOA from your base to be looking through the center of your lenses for a 1,000 yards shot. I like to dial at 100 yards for load dev, so make sure your scope has at least 25MOA down from "C". Hope that helps.
@@notsure7874 I shoot ELR with both pistol and Rifle. I use "Heritage Arms Cold shots" on my guns that dont have a enough scope adjustment to get there. There are other adjustable mounts out there. I have one on my TC Pistol in 300bo I have shot it so far as far as 2200yds. As for your keep it in the center or let it go full max on adj. I have a 30-06 with both a cold shot on it and I have it maxed out on adj using the burris rings. Anything out to a mile I use just scope adjustment. I have it tilted forward so it is 3 clicks from max down. I shoot at 4200ft. At 1 mile if it is around freezing high humidity and about 30.4 or higher on the barometric pressure adjusted for altitude. It will max out the scope on elevation. I never shoot at max I will back it down 2 clicks then add with the cold shot. Basically when shooting farther than a mile. I have it 22 clicks off max scope adj. and start using the cold shot. For the record it is a mill scope. Now the pistol is a whole different story. Pistol scopes have a lot of parallax in them. If I start using the elevation adjustment on the scope it does not take much and the cross hairs are no longer in the center. I have it it sighted in at 100 yards and just use the cold shot for adjustment. Someday when I have the cold shot maxed out I will give it a go with adding scope adj. That should be somewhere around 2500yds are farther. NDR
I put some groups on paper at 400 recently with my ar-10. Group next to me wanted to know about my scope . It’s a 1-4 primary arms haha . I just know the rifle and the holds. Magnification doesn’t make me shoot better .
I need to find out if my scope has enough adjustment for extended range. It'll be fun to be able to slap steel at a thousand meters with my PA-10 IN .308. That and I need a longer distance rangefinder. I think mine has a max range of 400 yards or so. At least I don't need to reload. I've found 2 hunting loads that my rifle will do 1/2MOA all day, as long as I do my part.
I wish someone would have told me these things when I started getting more serious about distance. Most of your lower priced rangfinders have problems after 800. I'm no expert but I shoot a lot from 800 to 1200 and 1500 at times. I'm an old country boy and didn't wanna spend 3000 dollars on a ranger. I bought the Vortex razor 4000, (500.00) and it has been flawless out to 1500 and will read non reflective targets past 2000, (deer and varmints to 1200 no problem). I took a varmint recently ranged by my shooting partner at 1060 yards. This was where we practice. It just came out and I had just shot a great group at 1000 with my 6.5 creed. We were getting ready to leave. I took the shot and smoked it. I watched the impact through my scope. My buddy was on the spotting scope, (Celestial 80 or 100 model 20x60 from Amazon $250.00 and a camera tripod heavier duty is best, from Amazon. 50 or 60 bucks.) A 80 to 100 bucks Caldwell chronograph to read your actual muzzle velocity, (important) and that Vortex razor 4000 so you know the distance, (important) with Strelok pro app. will help you get where you want. Try Federal Gold Medal Match 175gr. if your barrel is the right twist it stays super sonic to 1000. 168grains will work but if your twist rate is 1/10 or 1/11 go 175gr. Excellent ammo for 308 Winchester for target. If you like that?! Hand loading will make your groups even better, most of the time because of consistency. When buying your ammo for distance try to get the same code numbers(made same day and machine operator). Goodluck and get someone else involved in the fun! Peace🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Aspiring long range shooters who are just getting into it may have a perception that good results are all about a high-power rifle with a high magnification scope and match grade ammunition. This mindset is understandable yet unrealistic since the match conditioning of equipment is only a small portion of what’s important to good shooting; and, when such equipment is used by an untrained shooter, the match conditioning serves only as a substitute for marksmanship when shooting at short range, where comprehensive marksmanship skills are not required for good results. This reality is proven In Long Range Service Rifle Competition where each shooter totes equipment to the firing line as similar to others as peas in a pod; yet, while some shooters on the firing line will post Master Class scores, others will shoot poorly. To do better than poorly, shooters should first recognize the fact that, unless the rifle is broken, the bullet will ALWAYS go in the direction the barrel is pointed. This means that when the bullet does not go where aimed it’s not about the gun being suspect; but instead, it’s likely the shooter’s aim was disturbed, the sights were not properly aligned, or the sights were not correctly adjusted for distance, wind, and weather conditions. Since this sort of shot misplacement is caused by shooter error, rather than an inadequate gun, sights, or ammunition, the shooter should reorient the mindset from emphasis on equipment to focus on the principles of marksmanship and the skills which support properly pointing the rifle and pulling the trigger SMOOTHLY. A novice can get off to a good start with it all by simply getting some basic rifle marksmanship training from a qualified instructor, perhaps, through participation in a CMP authorized M1 Garand Clinic hosted by a local shooting club affiliated with the Civilian Marksmanship Program. The United States Army Marksmanship Unit also hosts a marksmanship training exercise for U.S. Citizens at Camp Perry, Ohio called Small Arms Firing School. At this annual 3-day July event students get training from champion shooters on everything there is to know about good shooting.
Good info....lets add one more...before you do all these things, invest $25 bucks and order Ryan Cleckners book...long range shooting for beginners!!! You will be prept for anything at the range doing long range stuff!!
Sock with poly pellets works for me. Will not absorb water like some other fillers. Knot at end of sock. Cut off excess then second sock over the top to make it look cleaner. Tactical socks!
@@natmadThat's also what I use. For pellets I used cheap-grade airsoft balls. Much better for me than rice or sand bags that I used for years. Responds better to fine squeeze-adjustments.
Did you learn how to counter wind? What’s your MOA Wind Constant? How about slope dope? What’s the formula to adjust elevation for a 30 degree slope at 1000 yards line of sight distance to target? I don’t think you know the answer but maybe I’m wrong. The point is Long Range is easy but not until you know what to do about wind and slope.
dont buy anything for rear, just get a pair of old tube socks fill 1 of them 3/4 of the way, do 2 twist and fold the rest under the sock. (Optional, loose plastic wrap around first sock) Then take the second sock and fit that over the first rice filled sock. DO 1 twist and fold or cut remaining off sock or use the remaining to fit once more around sock.
Rice as a filler is too loose and capable of shifting for me to use. Though I use a similar method of constructing a rear support, sand provides a more stable support. Cheers.
Seems like 15 years ago errors used to be less common and people were willing to accept advice. These days I see way too much carelessness and mistakes. I don't give advice anymore because they will confidently tell me I'm wrong because they saw a YT video and are now a certified expert. It's scary.
I just recently started using a rear bag. Up until then I'd been using the old school hand method. Just that little switch made a huge improvement in stability. I have a level on my scope but here's the thing. The work bench in my garage is level so the scope should be level and the level should be level right? Well, when I get to the range it's always tilted. I should probably take my torpedo with me to make sure the beach is level but haven't. As for ammo, most classes require "match" ammo but I seem to get results that are just as constant (~1moa) with 308 168gr hpbt S&B factory loads. It's match a ammo really that much better?
Confused. I purchased a Second focal plane scope and a high-powered PCP air rifle. 99% of the time I’m going to use this gun for marksmanship shooting/target shooting maximum distance would be 300 yards possibly 400 yards. The reason I’m confused is because I’ve talked to experts and some experts tell me that if you’re shooting under 400 yards you don’t need a first focal plane scope and that it’s personal preference in terms of second focal plan and first vocal plane for marksmanship shooting. Other experts tell me the exact opposite. One guy told me that he knows some x military snipers who actually prefer second vocal plane scopes so you can see how it gets confusing. What’s your opinion? I think I can return the scope. My scope is the Discovery LHD-NV 4-16X44SFIR SFP
Rear bag "platform" suggestion. If you really want the best platform for consistency at any distance, I highly recommend the Adjustable Bag Rider (ABR) from Longshot Precision. And ideally the Protektor Model ABR rear bag with super slick 3m on the ears to accompany it. It's a custom fit and glides like ice. There are specific ABR models are for the RPR along with many other popular precision stocks. Even a pic rail model is available for generic stock use. If you use a bipod like most of us, and not a F-Class adjustable front rest, then the ABR is the ticket. High quality precision tool as the price reflects, but worth every cent imho.
@@TheShooter762The rifle does move rearward on recoil, even with preload. And with a squeeze bag or monopod, I guarantee your poa does not stay on point after firing. You have to readjust after every shot. Besides that, this system allows you the ability to input anything from heavy preload to free recoil, depending on what works best for the particular rifle set up. It's just a stable rear end with micro adjustment that tracks straight. It feels like cheating actually. Lol. To each his own of course.
@@johnsathe2429 If so not much I use the web nylon strapping material and put it in the bottom of the rear ring do it mostly to get enough for long range 22lr but have done it on bug bore
Honestly under 1k I don't see a level matterung very much. Over that I have missed bc of it but under I just haven't seen it. But it never hurts to be level bf u pull the trigger.
You don't need a scope level. Ryan Cleckner's video on scope mounting teaches you how to use a piece of metal to ensure that the flat bottom of your scope is square with the flat top of your rail. I got fancy with it. I grabbed a piece of scrap aluminum from work and had my buddy stick it on his Bridgeport Mill and machine it to the exact thickness needed to fit the gap with my specific scope and rings. And it's perfectly flat on both sides, down to +/- 0.0001 inch 😃
You guys, I think, are missing the point. Your gun needs to be level with your scope, yes. But the next part is insuring the gun is level when you shoot your shot. Optical illusions can make you cant one way or the other. Pressure from your bipod can cause cant. These little thing are big once your increase the angle of the barrel to the line of sight.
@@kylesalem-fuson8012 That's not true. It would be if the scope were mounted exactly in the center of the bore and the rounds went perfectly straight not affected by gravity. With the scope above the bore, and the rifle tilted (rotated left or right) any amount, you are sending the shot left or right of the sight picture. Like slicing a golf shot. Think about the arc of the bullet heading up over the laser straight sight picture, now cant the rifle over and see in your mind, the arc deviate from the sight picture.
@@ZeeCaptainRon NAILED IT🔥 Some people don't understand it though. And I was one of those people till it was explained to me just like you've said it.
The trick to get the most adjustment out of your scope is to see how much total elevation it has then you get a rail that is half of that. For example if you have 120 moa of elevation you need a base that’s 60 moa to get all that elevation and still have 100 yd zero
HI Adam, The class was just like a intro to PRS basically. I really don't want to advertise for it cause I can't guarantee the experience that others will have. Hopefully that makes sense. BAR
Good info for beginners, but I really don’t see the need for a level. Folks have been hitting distance targets for a very long time without a level for as long as firearms have been around, I honestly see a level being an unnecessary distraction.
The level (anti-cant) is a must. The reticle must be plumb to the horizon… not necessarily level to rifle. Even a little error here really shows up big at long distance. Shooting with a canted reticle, even if it’s only a degree or two from plumb causes the shooter to unknowingly dial a small amount of windage correction while adjusting only the elevation turret. The farther the distance, the greater the error.
@@salnapolitano5078 I understand what you’re saying, and I sti don’t see the point. Now, my background is probably why, as I’m retired Infantry and know a lot of Snipers, buddy had the longest shot in Iraq with the Barret 50 for the first year we were there. None of those guys used levels, and we’d set rifles up we made sure the reticle was in the correct orientation when we set up the rifles. Now I’m no sniper, but I’ve been shooting since I was five and was taught by my grandfather how to set a scope properly. If the scope is set properly there is no need for a level IMO, we’ve been making shots without them forever. Personally I’d recommend taking the time to get the scope right from the beginning and leave the level on the bench.
@@shuumai actually they are shooting at a target the size of a 3x5 index card that happens to be a spot on humans that pushes the off button quickly, and reliably. If snipers were just shooting at humans that is an enormous target, and hitting one in a non-vital does not accomplish the mission. So the short answer to your question is no, even Infantrymen aren’t just shooting at human target, we shoot for the off button which is pretty small on a human.
The mistake would be thinking you can compete with a deer rifle you have in your safe against these PRS guys. They have turned a friendly competition into a bloodthirsty crusade. If you are one of the very few that can enjoy it, drive on.
not necessary, if you want to spend the money buy a decent bipod ( my personal preference something more stable than a harris type Bipod ) or use a backpack
A monopod is less stable than a rear bag. It’s easy for the rifle to pivot on that single point instead of staying steady on the broader surface of the bag. You can also make the bag stable on uneven ground where you can’t with a monopod.
I drilled a hole in my stock and added a threaded insert. I use a carriage bolt with a rubber head as a adjustable rear leg. But my bipod is locked down with zero movement. When I’m done, I remove it and it simply looks like a factory insert ready for a sling swivel to be added. For my AR’s, I use a homemade setup that slips into my pistol grip. But in all fairness, I’m shooting precision on a 1200m range. If you are merely Bubba on a 100yd range, a bag of rice is just fine.
Did all my scope leveling and then used fancy houses foundations and roof tops to confirm level...bubble in the middle and no roof showing above or below my windage lines
You are very informational. You get straight too the point. You wont show your face. That is your issue. It makes you look like you are hiding who you are. The dumb thing is you do not have too show who you are. Just don't have your self in the camera's view.
@@warblerblue I bought a level in 2011 and had it for all of 5 days and gave it away to a friend. I've had no issues at all using my eyes to level the reticle in all conditions.
@@drjimjam1112 cheap crutch. Everyone has the ability to level a reticle by looking at it. If you don't, then practice. But a level is a distraction and a crutch. The human body has built in levels and they are extremely accurate. Try it out and let me know what you think.
Yeah...shooting from a bench/prone. But in a possible setting where you're shooting off of something that isn't level it becomes a helpful tool. I've been missing shots think maybe i got the wind wrong, looked at my level and was a little canted. Straightened up and impact. Certain tools for certain use cases or a time and place for every tool
No amount of elevation adjustment will make sense if you cannot read your wind and put that into the rifle. When do you really send 100 rounds downrange if it is actual? You get 2-rounds max before they get your a*$$. Then again - out to 1000 yds, you can shoot all day and the poor sap will not know you are shooting at him. LOL>
It's Monty! Only reason I'm ragging on you is because my first name is Monty and everyone spells it Monte! Or Montie or A$$hole! Even my parents... I love the flying circus though, even my name on here is related to them and Jimmy Buffett.😝
Talk about plumb bob and show a string line. Talks about the importance of a level and neglects scope vertical crosshair alignment with the barrel. C'mon man...
Tall Target Test (You need to do this): th-cam.com/video/12Wf0Cuwwi8/w-d-xo.html
Here are the timestamps:
1:45 1. Supporting the rear end of the rifle
2:27 2. Making sure your system is leveled
2:57 3. Scope level not set up correctly
4:10 4. Not having enough dialable elevation on the scope
6:04 5. Not having enough of the same ammo
All good points for beginners especially the different brands/weights of ammo/bullets. Until a person is told or they read it they don't know just how much that affects things. We all start at the same place, the beginning. Good vid.
Another thing to be aware of when buying multiple boxes (of the exact same ammo) is to be sure the batch numbers match up. That ensures all the ammo in all the boxes where produced on the same machine on the same day.
I made my own sandbags using old blue jeans, sewing sections of the legs up the middle, plus the lower leg for thinner bags.
Then filling them with store bought sand.
The side by side sand bags are great for stacking and I've never seen them offered anywhere.
When shooting large bore magnums, you can put a sandbag between the butt pad and your shoulder.
I do the same thing, works great IMO!
Hey
That's what I'm going to do with my kids jeans, they outgrow em so fast. 👍
I use socks. Work great.
@@Sanwizard1 Good idea. Hopefully ones without holes in them ;)
I use sleeves of uniform jackets.
Did long shooting for a while, with the cheapest 308 I could find (modified) with some of the cheapest accessories I could find, just to see if I anyone really need to spend thousands on something else. Some like it already to go and some like to put it together piece by piece. Got great results at 300 meters they were dead on. The feedback from the ones I sold to some of my friends were all positives, and happy with the results they were getting, it's been a while and got some good memories, but IMO you don't need to spend thousands on a long gun, and it is simple and fun to put something together that will do just as good for a lot less. 👍
Everyone has there own goals which is understandable. You can get surprisingly far with budget equipment. Many folks are going much further than 300 meters these days too.
300 meters is considered short range in full rifle cartridges (like the .308). Mid range is like 500 or 600, long range more like 800 plus.
For reference, long range shooting at 300 meters is something you see in rimfire (i.e. 22lr) long range competition. It's long range to a rimfire.
Nothing wrong with a short range .308 built in the cheap. Just saying: it is a short range .308 built on the cheap. Not a long range one.
You can build a long range .308 for under $1k, but probably not by just grabbing "the cheapest accessories" you can find. Gonna have to go mid-range cost on at least a few items to get a good shooter.
@@BoltActionReloading
Who was the long range class
through?
I was watching a video once on what to take to a class. The #1 thing I took away from that video was "Always take more Ammo than required". I like to take 1.5 to 2 times the amount they require. I was at a Pistol course that suggested 250 rounds. I took 400. We progressed a bit faster than the time line suggested. Because most of us had extra ammo we were able to do more of the drills.
I’d also like to add having quality scope mounts that are properly torqued. I’ve never really shot past 200 yards and always thought shooting long range required tons of skill and expensive equipment. Not long ago I decided to shoot my Remington 770 .300wm out to 600 yards and was surprised that it wasn’t all that difficult. Hits weren’t consistent at 600 but everything from 300-400 was relatively easy.
Last summer I had first experience shooting past 300yds, going out to 900yds with a stock Ruger Precision Rifle and an accurized (blue printed) otherwise stock R700. Both .308 firing Fed GM Match 168gr SMK BTHP rounds. This with a Pro spotter coach using Applied Ballistic app. Previous to this event, I've routinely shot MoA accuracy with modest optics...Vortex Viper HST 6-24x50 on 20MoA rail. Verified zero at 100yrds, then walked out to 900, only adjusting elevation holding off for windage. In the end, repeated center of mass at 900. To your point Sir. Long range is not a function of multi-thousand dollar firearms and optics with good support i.e. front rest or bipod and rear bag. The ammo and well set up firearms can do amaxing things.
That shirt cracked me up... LOL Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
Monty Python... 'It's just a flesh wound. Come back and fight like a man!'......."What ya going to do, bleed all over me?" 😄😄
Another thing that can be overlooked with a brand new rifle out of the box or one that you already have. Check the torque on everything. Action screws, rail screws, ring screws. Get rid of movement in the components. Not only do you get zero faster, you don't have to chase it.
Rear bag was a total game changer for me. I was using my fist. Then while waiting for my bag to show up I used a rolled up swear shirt and it cut my groups in half. I just got a 10 dollar bag and filled it with rice. Works great. 2nd was the level. Got one that mounts to the scope mount. Whether it's level or not I don't know but it helps me to know I'm at the same angle every shot even if it's not perfect
Just shot my first ladder test today. I appreciate the content, you’ve helped out a ton!
Thanks Jason, I am glad its been helpful!
Well said. You learn by overcoming mental barriers, and pushing your limits, but still in a way that allows you to learn rather than abject misses that can’t be spotted. Eventually, with enough skills and time, you will decide to spend a freaking fortune 😂 Such a rewarding sport and it doesn’t have to be out of reach of an average shooter if they get decent basic gear and practice.
You CAN do it.
With a simple ACOG my children can easily make 300yrd hits.
I am working them back to 600 yrds gradually. 👍
400 yrds or longer... You have a valuable skill set.
Good basics. Although, I shoot a lot, I can still learn a lot. I have a new 300 win mag that needs to be zeroed and I can appreciate some of the tips you have given. Thanks!
Good video. I agree about the level. Matter of fact, many mid to high grade scopes come with a level these days for just that reason .... or they are offered in kits. With that said, I'm the guy that is always going around straightening pictures hanging on walls so, like many, I have an eagle's eye for space and position when it comes to leveling things. (BTW, another way to do it, in the field, is to mount it while looking across a body of water like a lake or a pond. Anyways, liked, shared, commented, upvoted, subscribed, bell rung ... may the algorithm gods smile favorably upon your channel.
Good advice. Rear support is very important. The Ultimate Bag Rider works well and is adjustable for elevation.
Scope reticle must be level with the scope base if you have a canted base! If not then your scope base will be impacting both elevation and windage.
To maximize using the total scope adjustment I use Burris Signature rings. They come with inserts to tilt the scope as much as 40 moa. My 25-06 with the burris rings and a 30mm tube I can get out to 2200yds.
I 2nd these rings. Another use is to center your windage travel. This is like blueprinting your scope setup getting rid of all the inherent tolerance stacking. Always verify by doing a tall target.
@@DudeWayne29 I'd love to know two things. The first one is for your response, the second related to the OP's comment.
How do you move the crosshairs left and right without spinning the turret? If it's an insert like these burris rings, how do you do both at the same time? How do the inserts center themselves in the ring bore - like so they aren't 5 degrees off, and you're actually moving elevation AND a little windage?
Second question which is relatively incidental: I want the scope optically centered for windage, but do I really want it centered for elevation? Bullets only drop, and they only go above the sight line between the two points that they converge (the two zero points). So wouldn't I want to set the elevation where there's a TON of room to move the POI up, but only a little bit to go "down"? Sort of like the shooter in the video, but in reverse?
Or would that mean I was looking toward the edges of the lenses, and I really want to be optically centered even though there's little to no reason to ever dope the scope "down"?
The ring inserts are thicker and thinner halves, by rotating the halves, you can move your POI left or right but you lose some of your elevation gain.
As to looking though the center of the lenses, figure out the distance you need a clearer picture. if you plan to shoot 1,000 yards, then figure the center of your elevation in the scope turrets "C". Now figure your required elevation for 1,000 yards, say 25MOA. You would need need 5MOA from you rings along with the 20MOA from your base to be looking through the center of your lenses for a 1,000 yards shot. I like to dial at 100 yards for load dev, so make sure your scope has at least 25MOA down from "C".
Hope that helps.
@@notsure7874 I shoot ELR with both pistol and Rifle. I use "Heritage Arms Cold shots" on my guns that dont have a enough scope adjustment to get there. There are other adjustable mounts out there. I have one on my TC Pistol in 300bo I have shot it so far as far as 2200yds.
As for your keep it in the center or let it go full max on adj. I have a 30-06 with both a cold shot on it and I have it maxed out on adj using the burris rings. Anything out to a mile I use just scope adjustment. I have it tilted forward so it is 3 clicks from max down. I shoot at 4200ft. At 1 mile if it is around freezing high humidity and about 30.4 or higher on the barometric pressure adjusted for altitude. It will max out the scope on elevation. I never shoot at max I will back it down 2 clicks then add with the cold shot. Basically when shooting farther than a mile. I have it 22 clicks off max scope adj. and start using the cold shot. For the record it is a mill scope.
Now the pistol is a whole different story. Pistol scopes have a lot of parallax in them. If I start using the elevation adjustment on the scope it does not take much and the cross hairs are no longer in the center. I have it it sighted in at 100 yards and just use the cold shot for adjustment. Someday when I have the cold shot maxed out I will give it a go with adding scope adj. That should be somewhere around 2500yds are farther.
NDR
@@DudeWayne29 Thanks guys, thats everything I wanted to know and more! Y'all both shoot further than I ever will thats for sure.
I put some groups on paper at 400 recently with my ar-10. Group next to me wanted to know about my scope . It’s a 1-4 primary arms haha . I just know the rifle and the holds. Magnification doesn’t make me shoot better .
The Armageddon modular bag is my favorite.
Just took a class and your advice is spot on. Thank you!
Long range shooters are scientists.....sooo many variables....great show,,,great tips...
I shoot distance. That was a excellent video for new distance shooters. Well done!!
Thanks!
I need to find out if my scope has enough adjustment for extended range. It'll be fun to be able to slap steel at a thousand meters with my PA-10 IN .308. That and I need a longer distance rangefinder. I think mine has a max range of 400 yards or so. At least I don't need to reload. I've found 2 hunting loads that my rifle will do 1/2MOA all day, as long as I do my part.
I wish someone would have told me these things when I started getting more serious about distance. Most of your lower priced rangfinders have problems after 800. I'm no expert but I shoot a lot from 800 to 1200 and 1500 at times. I'm an old country boy and didn't wanna spend 3000 dollars on a ranger. I bought the Vortex razor 4000, (500.00) and it has been flawless out to 1500 and will read non reflective targets past 2000, (deer and varmints to 1200 no problem). I took a varmint recently ranged by my shooting partner at 1060 yards. This was where we practice. It just came out and I had just shot a great group at 1000 with my 6.5 creed. We were getting ready to leave. I took the shot and smoked it. I watched the impact through my scope. My buddy was on the spotting scope, (Celestial 80 or 100 model 20x60 from Amazon $250.00 and a camera tripod heavier duty is best, from Amazon. 50 or 60 bucks.)
A 80 to 100 bucks Caldwell chronograph to read your actual muzzle velocity, (important) and that Vortex razor 4000 so you know the distance, (important) with Strelok pro app. will help you get where you want. Try Federal Gold Medal Match 175gr. if your barrel is the right twist it stays super sonic to 1000. 168grains will work but if your twist rate is 1/10 or 1/11 go 175gr. Excellent ammo for 308 Winchester for target.
If you like that?! Hand loading will make your groups even better, most of the time because of consistency. When buying your ammo for distance try to get the same code numbers(made same day and machine operator).
Goodluck and get someone else involved in the fun!
Peace🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Thank you for posting this very helpful easy to understand video. 🇨🇦
Another great and useful video; thanks. J.
Aspiring long range shooters who are just getting into it may have a perception that good results are all about a high-power rifle with a high magnification scope and match grade ammunition. This mindset is understandable yet unrealistic since the match conditioning of equipment is only a small portion of what’s important to good shooting; and, when such equipment is used by an untrained shooter, the match conditioning serves only as a substitute for marksmanship when shooting at short range, where comprehensive marksmanship skills are not required for good results. This reality is proven In Long Range Service Rifle Competition where each shooter totes equipment to the firing line as similar to others as peas in a pod; yet, while some shooters on the firing line will post Master Class scores, others will shoot poorly. To do better than poorly, shooters should first recognize the fact that, unless the rifle is broken, the bullet will ALWAYS go in the direction the barrel is pointed. This means that when the bullet does not go where aimed it’s not about the gun being suspect; but instead, it’s likely the shooter’s aim was disturbed, the sights were not properly aligned, or the sights were not correctly adjusted for distance, wind, and weather conditions. Since this sort of shot misplacement is caused by shooter error, rather than an inadequate gun, sights, or ammunition, the shooter should reorient the mindset from emphasis on equipment to focus on the principles of marksmanship and the skills which support properly pointing the rifle and pulling the trigger SMOOTHLY.
A novice can get off to a good start with it all by simply getting some basic rifle marksmanship training from a qualified instructor, perhaps, through participation in a CMP authorized M1 Garand Clinic hosted by a local shooting club affiliated with the Civilian Marksmanship Program. The United States Army Marksmanship Unit also hosts a marksmanship training exercise for U.S. Citizens at Camp Perry, Ohio called Small Arms Firing School. At this annual 3-day July event students get training from champion shooters on everything there is to know about good shooting.
Good info....lets add one more...before you do all these things, invest $25 bucks and order Ryan Cleckners book...long range shooting for beginners!!! You will be prept for anything at the range doing long range stuff!!
My rear bag is a large sock stuffed with rice. Yes really. Best rear bag I ever had.
Whatever works for you.
In the Army, we used a sock with sand.
Sock with poly pellets works for me. Will not absorb water like some other fillers. Knot at end of sock. Cut off excess then second sock over the top to make it look cleaner. Tactical socks!
@@natmadThat's also what I use. For pellets I used cheap-grade airsoft balls. Much better for me than rice or sand bags that I used for years. Responds better to fine squeeze-adjustments.
Awesome video! Thanks for sharing!
Did you learn how to counter wind? What’s your MOA Wind Constant? How about slope dope? What’s the formula to adjust elevation for a 30 degree slope at 1000 yards line of sight distance to target? I don’t think you know the answer but maybe I’m wrong. The point is Long Range is easy but not until you know what to do about wind and slope.
Yes that's true, I never miss
Very well said. Thanks for the tips 👍🏼
dont buy anything for rear, just get a pair of old tube socks fill 1 of them 3/4 of the way, do 2 twist and fold the rest under the sock. (Optional, loose plastic wrap around first sock) Then take the second sock and fit that over the first rice filled sock. DO 1 twist and fold or cut remaining off sock or use the remaining to fit once more around sock.
Rice as a filler is too loose and capable of shifting for me to use. Though I use a similar method of constructing a rear support, sand provides a more stable support. Cheers.
What size tab gear bag small or large? light fill or heavy fill? Im confused with what to buy!
Excellent advice!
Seems like 15 years ago errors used to be less common and people were willing to accept advice. These days I see way too much carelessness and mistakes. I don't give advice anymore because they will confidently tell me I'm wrong because they saw a YT video and are now a certified expert. It's scary.
Don't give up, create some videos of your advice and post them to YT.
@@DudeWayne29 No. I'm not creating videos. Too busy looking out for careless people who take advice from videos.
@@BB-mt5no The gun communities loss.
Really good rundown.
Thanks!
Thanks for sharing! Love the shirt!😂
I just recently started using a rear bag. Up until then I'd been using the old school hand method. Just that little switch made a huge improvement in stability.
I have a level on my scope but here's the thing. The work bench in my garage is level so the scope should be level and the level should be level right? Well, when I get to the range it's always tilted. I should probably take my torpedo with me to make sure the beach is level but haven't.
As for ammo, most classes require "match" ammo but I seem to get results that are just as constant (~1moa) with 308 168gr hpbt S&B factory loads. It's match a ammo really that much better?
A bipod with cant adjustment is the easy fix.
You are correct, that guy always misses 😉 LOL
good tips, thx.
Confused. I purchased a Second focal plane scope and a high-powered PCP air rifle. 99% of the time I’m going to use this gun for marksmanship shooting/target shooting maximum distance would be 300 yards possibly 400 yards.
The reason I’m confused is because I’ve talked to experts and some experts tell me that if you’re shooting under 400 yards you don’t need a first focal plane scope and that it’s personal preference in terms of second focal plan and first vocal plane for marksmanship shooting.
Other experts tell me the exact opposite. One guy told me that he knows some x military snipers who actually prefer second vocal plane scopes so you can see how it gets confusing. What’s your opinion? I think I can return the scope.
My scope is the
Discovery
LHD-NV
4-16X44SFIR SFP
good vid >>like your shirt> where you get it ???
It is a good video. Though you explain why someone should do something you failed to explain how to best use it.
Great job! Thank you!
Rear bag "platform" suggestion. If you really want the best platform for consistency at any distance, I highly recommend the Adjustable Bag Rider (ABR) from Longshot Precision. And ideally the Protektor Model ABR rear bag with super slick 3m on the ears to accompany it. It's a custom fit and glides like ice. There are specific ABR models are for the RPR along with many other popular precision stocks. Even a pic rail model is available for generic stock use. If you use a bipod like most of us, and not a F-Class adjustable front rest, then the ABR is the ticket. High quality precision tool as the price reflects, but worth every cent imho.
Most of the time, you need to load the bipod with your shoulder. The rifle does not slide on the bag. That is an F class or bench rest thing.
@@TheShooter762The rifle does move rearward on recoil, even with preload.
And with a squeeze bag or monopod, I guarantee your poa does not stay on point after firing. You have to readjust after every shot. Besides that, this system allows you the ability to input anything from heavy preload to free recoil, depending on what works best for the particular rifle set up. It's just a stable rear end with micro adjustment that tracks straight. It feels like cheating actually. Lol. To each his own of course.
(*Moves to the left a bit, and slowly raises hand*)
Yea... I'm that guy. The guy that always misses.
Dang, why'd you have to point me out though?!
LoL
cuz you suck ! - unlike me, I NEVER miss 😁
It was the wind!
Who makes some of the better scope levels?
Excellent video, spot on! :)
you can change to elvation by shimming to rear ring
Won't that put strain on the scope tube with one ring out of sync with the other?
@@johnsathe2429 If so not much I use the web nylon strapping material and put it in the bottom of the rear ring do it mostly to get enough for long range 22lr but have done it on bug bore
Thank you for the info.
how can you see the level if you're looking through the optic
Nice one 👍❤️, listen up get it right here brother.
Great t-shirt
Honestly under 1k I don't see a level matterung very much. Over that I have missed bc of it but under I just haven't seen it. But it never hurts to be level bf u pull the trigger.
You don't need a scope level. Ryan Cleckner's video on scope mounting teaches you how to use a piece of metal to ensure that the flat bottom of your scope is square with the flat top of your rail.
I got fancy with it. I grabbed a piece of scrap aluminum from work and had my buddy stick it on his Bridgeport Mill and machine it to the exact thickness needed to fit the gap with my specific scope and rings. And it's perfectly flat on both sides, down to +/- 0.0001 inch 😃
The level is helpful if you have a BDC reticle and are utilizing the hash marks. If you’re always on the center cross hair no you don’t need a level
You guys, I think, are missing the point. Your gun needs to be level with your scope, yes. But the next part is insuring the gun is level when you shoot your shot. Optical illusions can make you cant one way or the other. Pressure from your bipod can cause cant. These little thing are big once your increase the angle of the barrel to the line of sight.
@@kylesalem-fuson8012 That's not true. It would be if the scope were mounted exactly in the center of the bore and the rounds went perfectly straight not affected by gravity. With the scope above the bore, and the rifle tilted (rotated left or right) any amount, you are sending the shot left or right of the sight picture. Like slicing a golf shot. Think about the arc of the bullet heading up over the laser straight sight picture, now cant the rifle over and see in your mind, the arc deviate from the sight picture.
@@ZeeCaptainRon NAILED IT🔥
Some people don't understand it though. And I was one of those people till it was explained to me just like you've said it.
@@DudeWayne29Well said! I was going to add the same comment, but you beat me to it. Happy shooting!
@BoltActionReloading The most important question is: Where can I get this t-shirt?
Thank you!
Great stuff; thanx
ims 4895 ,155 palma one grain over the max 4895 56 grains!
Where did you take the class?
BUMP.
Double Bump.
The trick to get the most adjustment out of your scope is to see how much total elevation it has then you get a rail that is half of that. For example if you have 120 moa of elevation you need a base that’s 60 moa to get all that elevation and still have 100 yd zero
Good ideas
Thank you 😊
Brilliant!
DOUGout
Awesome video Pete! Yomama is looking greasy! Love watching your videos but still no jr’s what’s going on ???
What shooting class do you go to ?
HI Adam, The class was just like a intro to PRS basically. I really don't want to advertise for it cause I can't guarantee the experience that others will have. Hopefully that makes sense.
BAR
I don't even click and zero at -5mil on top. Cause when are you going to click down to shoot 10 yards...
The accuracy first level is much better than vortex.
Where can I get that shirt?
Just hold over if you run out of adjustment.
Thank you
You're welcome!
Good video
Good info for beginners, but I really don’t see the need for a level. Folks have been hitting distance targets for a very long time without a level for as long as firearms have been around, I honestly see a level being an unnecessary distraction.
The level (anti-cant) is a must. The reticle must be plumb to the horizon… not necessarily level to rifle. Even a little error here really shows up big at long distance. Shooting with a canted reticle, even if it’s only a degree or two from plumb causes the shooter to unknowingly dial a small amount of windage correction while adjusting only the elevation turret. The farther the distance, the greater the error.
@@salnapolitano5078 I understand what you’re saying, and I sti don’t see the point. Now, my background is probably why, as I’m retired Infantry and know a lot of Snipers, buddy had the longest shot in Iraq with the Barret 50 for the first year we were there. None of those guys used levels, and we’d set rifles up we made sure the reticle was in the correct orientation when we set up the rifles. Now I’m no sniper, but I’ve been shooting since I was five and was taught by my grandfather how to set a scope properly. If the scope is set properly there is no need for a level IMO, we’ve been making shots without them forever. Personally I’d recommend taking the time to get the scope right from the beginning and leave the level on the bench.
@@syskusa6512 snipers generally shoot human sized targets though, right?
@@shuumai actually they are shooting at a target the size of a 3x5 index card that happens to be a spot on humans that pushes the off button quickly, and reliably.
If snipers were just shooting at humans that is an enormous target, and hitting one in a non-vital does not accomplish the mission.
So the short answer to your question is no, even Infantrymen aren’t just shooting at human target, we shoot for the off button which is pretty small on a human.
@@syskusa6512 you mean the head? The chest is a bigger target?
The mistake would be thinking you can compete with a deer rifle you have in your safe against these PRS guys. They have turned a friendly competition into a bloodthirsty crusade. If you are one of the very few that can enjoy it, drive on.
Sounds like the instructor didn’t have a thorough “before you arrive” list.
How about a rear monopod?
not necessary, if you want to spend the money buy a decent bipod ( my personal preference something more stable than a harris type Bipod ) or use a backpack
A monopod is less stable than a rear bag. It’s easy for the rifle to pivot on that single point instead of staying steady on the broader surface of the bag. You can also make the bag stable on uneven ground where you can’t with a monopod.
bags r mucho better use what the pros use, don't skimp save up buy quality
Naw that’s just a way another gadget rear bag is the way it’s got a have enough play to be able to squeeze so you can adjust
I drilled a hole in my stock and added a threaded insert. I use a carriage bolt with a rubber head as a adjustable rear leg. But my bipod is locked down with zero movement.
When I’m done, I remove it and it simply looks like a factory insert ready for a sling swivel to be added.
For my AR’s, I use a homemade setup that slips into my pistol grip.
But in all fairness, I’m shooting precision on a 1200m range. If you are merely Bubba on a 100yd range, a bag of rice is just fine.
It's better to use a level that attaches to the rail.
Did all my scope leveling and then used fancy houses foundations and roof tops to confirm level...bubble in the middle and no roof showing above or below my windage lines
Sounds like you took Sniper Central's class.
The Hardest part of shooting long range is setting up the equipment.
You are very informational. You get straight too the point. You wont show your face. That is your issue. It makes you look like you are hiding who you are. The dumb thing is you do not have too show who you are. Just don't have your self in the camera's view.
FYI you have a little cant on your logo, better get the plum bob back out.🙂
Good video. Although I disagree about the need for a level.
I agree, I got 1k without a level.
@@warblerblue I bought a level in 2011 and had it for all of 5 days and gave it away to a friend. I've had no issues at all using my eyes to level the reticle in all conditions.
@@JacksonMalcolm not everyone can. Their cheap and a good trainings aid.
@@drjimjam1112 cheap crutch. Everyone has the ability to level a reticle by looking at it. If you don't, then practice. But a level is a distraction and a crutch.
The human body has built in levels and they are extremely accurate. Try it out and let me know what you think.
Yeah...shooting from a bench/prone. But in a possible setting where you're shooting off of something that isn't level it becomes a helpful tool.
I've been missing shots think maybe i got the wind wrong, looked at my level and was a little canted. Straightened up and impact.
Certain tools for certain use cases or a time and place for every tool
2:16 I don't appreciate being called out like that.
No, Its that guy, over there.
Get me three levels I'll get you three opinions...
The shirt 😂😂😂😂😂
No amount of elevation adjustment will make sense if you cannot read your wind and put that into the rifle. When do you really send 100 rounds downrange if it is actual? You get 2-rounds max before they get your a*$$. Then again - out to 1000 yds, you can shoot all day and the poor sap will not know you are shooting at him. LOL>
I'm that guy☹️
It was a Leupold wasn't it😂😂
Monte Python. Cheers
It's Monty! Only reason I'm ragging on you is because my first name is Monty and everyone spells it Monte! Or Montie or A$$hole! Even my parents... I love the flying circus though, even my name on here is related to them and Jimmy Buffett.😝
@@deadparrothead3175 Thank you for the correction
Not hard w a 308
👍
No, I'm that guy .... I can miss just fine.
Talk about plumb bob and show a string line. Talks about the importance of a level and neglects scope vertical crosshair alignment with the barrel.
C'mon man...
👍👍👍👍👍👀😎
Nearly 5 minutes yapping. Blocked.
Thank you for the video!