@ mephiles was sealed in the past because of shadow. if shadow died prior, silver and him would never have travelled to the past to stop it. thus the whole timeline is erased
Since Omega is still a thing in this timeline it's probably safe to say that Eggman cataloged Shadows data. My guess is that during the events of Shadow The Hedgehog Black Doom will try to strong arm Eggman into making Shadow Androids or a entirely new being based off of Shadow's data. So it would probably come down to Sonic and Metal Sonic.
That reasoning is way too motivated. It's a stark contrast when Rouge is so sidelined, no, if you just swipe out Shadow to make room for what you WISH to see in hindsight, it will come off derivative. That's what makes up the "fanficcy" tone, it's a result of being too uncreative to bridge the gap from consumer to a producer of fiction. The speculative fiction method, will set it out logically so that other characters FILL IN where Shadow is lacking, because that's how things actually happen in real life. It's functionlally base level world-building with a proper respect of charcters as part of the world. Not just a house of cards of a story that hangs in the air after some cards are missing. Omega's motivation out of boredom seems like fanon garbage, much like Mephiles being just too darn evil to have a plan that makes any sense. No, those are just an intrinsic character archetype and Sonic 06 being poorly written, which I mention to make the point on the difference. Emergent storytelling doesn't mean we have handwave either as non-canon, but still, you have to respect the platfrom from which the storytelling emerges, not just decide you don't like the author's ideas so you vote with your forum friends how to fix their art. If Omega exists, he just has to hate Eggman, because the motivation why was never the be-all, it only ever existed to fill in the blank in the bio. Rouge being hard to justify is only an effect of Sonic Team failing to keep up with GUN plot lines, though Rouge is suggested to work outside of GUN in SA2 if you go by conventinal logic. The President is not the chief operative OF GUN, there's a separation of powers so he uses an external agent, that's all. So if you really want to imagine Rouge missing in Heroes, it would be because you write off the whole GUN/espionage theme that never needed Shadow to begin with. Rouge might just as well be there and stumble upon something else. As long as there's Chaos, it's ample motivation for GUN to come a bout and President ot monitor them with Rouge as a double-agent. GUN and the e-series are kinda this thematic arms race, so they should still be in production, so Rouge would investigate the GUN ENEMY anyway, with or without Shadow. In my opinion, "some data of Shadow still exists" totally cops out from the original thought experiment of LETTING Shadow be gone.
Man do you imagine if the time used for Team Dark in heroes would have been used for another of the teams that was originally thought, imagine how the franchise would be if big didn't came back and Rouge stayes with amy and cream, or Mighty and Ray became some sort of buddies to the villain, or how fascinating it would be to have seen the hooligans stablish themselves as part of the main cast. Great video Suris!! You are a great writer and you have a great sense of imagination!
Although I’m personally very happy shadow came back after the events of sonic adventure 2, as I would personally argue his relationship with team dark alone justifies him returning as there is a lot of potential with that group, I can’t deny that it’s interesting to think how different the games would’ve been if someone at saga said “let’s just stick with our guns and keep him dead“.
Honestly in this timeline the only time I could see Shadow returning would be as a rival fight in Sonic Generations, kind of like how classic metal sonic and perfect chaos got a brief come back due to the time travel nature.
Without Shadow, I'm honestly not too sure how Sonic and Co. will even succeed against the Black Arms since everybody got infected with a neural toxin in the final story and only Shadow was immune to its effect. I think in this timeline, every party available (Sonic and friends, G.U.N and Eggman) will undoubtedly have to team up. I believe it will ultimately be Sonic once again that will defeat Black Doom in his super form but I do believe Omega and maybe Metal Sonic can play a vital role in the story at least at the end. Since they're robots, they won't get infected by the toxin, and since Omega has the power to take on Shadow, I don't think much of the Black Arms besides Black Doom will be much of a challenge to him. Idk a Sonic/Omega vs Black Doom fight could be pretty interesting.
My favorite Shadow story continues to be that one StH ending where he reflects on his past and comes to the revelation that he needs to protect the ark and all of the emeralds essentially becoming a second Knuckles type character guarding all the emeralds and the revelations that Gerald had. It would add nice explanation to a lot of games not involving emeralds, give a lot of purpose for Shadow to build off of, and make threats look a lot worse when emeralds are involved because it means Shadow was involved and defeated or worked around.
In Heroes, you can still have Team Dark but instead Rouge finds Omega locked up. He would be a robot made by Eggman to surpass project Shadow. Shadow's game could be about a clone deciding what path to take but ultimately choosing the same fate.
I'm glad Shadow didn't stay dead because there would've been serious dire consequences like Black Doom and The Black Arms winning The Ark crashing on Earth and causing an eternal winter and so many deaths we wouldn't have Mephiles or Silver or Shadow's game at all this would be the worst possible thing ever. Shadow is too much of a great character to stay dead.
Absolutely loved seeing Big with quite literally a big role to play in this what if. And the little greeting between Big and Eggman was a cute nod to Big's theme.
I like the idea that Omega takes center stage here in a way that let's him shine. Just goes to show how much of a black hole Shadow is. And I say that as someone who loves him too.
Wanna make a correction, the secret treasure that Rouge is looking for at the beginning of Sonic Heroes is NOT Shadow. This is proven at the end of the game where she says out loud to herself that she's gonna go find that secret treasure, and after the conversation with Omega concludes that this whole thing was a bust.
Honestly I always felt that line doesn't dismiss that shadow was the treasure. She just didn't gauge shadow as the treasure because she doesn't categorize him that way.
In terms of where to go with Shadow the Hedgehog (the game), I can think of two ideas off the top of my head: 1. If we wanna begin resetting everything back to the pre-death status quo, we could have it so that at the beginning of the story, about 48 hours before the Fire in the Sky festival, Black Doom rolls up to Eggman’s headquarters and basically tells him: “Yeah, Shadow technically belongs to me. And since he and Professor Gerald are dead, *you’re* gonna help me remake Shadow from the ground up…or I’ll destroy you, your equipment, and everything associated with you.” After which the 48 hours passes, the Fire in the Sky festival takes place, and Black Doom uses the festival as an opportunity to begin teleporting his minions down to Earth so they can invade and conquer it in his name. At this point, Sonic and his friends (along with GUN) catch wind of random alien sightings around the world, and begin to investigate. As the plot continues, the plan to revive Shadow is revealed to both Sonic and Co. and GUN, and the rest of the story would focus on Sonic and Co.‘s attempts to ward off the incoming invasion and keep Black Doom and Eggman from reviving Shadow. (If this were a game mechanic, you could have it so that Sonic would have to complete all of a given level’s objectives to most effectively thwart Black Doom’s invasion and Shadow revival plans, with each failed objective accumulating over time and bringing Shadow’s revival closer to completion.) The final act would have Sonic, all of his friends, and GUN storming both Eggman’s headquarters and the Black Comet, where - depending on what happened in the previous story acts - the good guys would either face Black Doom and Eggman with an upgraded Omega (which would buy them some extra time to finish up what they can of their attempted revival of Shadow), or they have to face Black Doom and Eggman with a fully-revived Shadow (who has been made to be loyal to Black Doom specifically). Either way, this would lead into a final story section where - after being defeated by Sonic and Co. - Black Doom (with Shadow in tow) retreats to the Black Comet, with Black Doom renouncing his partnership with Eggman and declaring his intent to destroy the world if he can’t conquer it. Sonic then follows Black Doom and Shadow (by himself) to the Black Comet, where - after trekking through the Black Comet’s otherworldly and intimidating architecture - he confronts Black Doom and Shadow, attempting to try and resuscitate the latter’s memories and get him on his side. Initially, it seems like this doesn’t work, and Sonic fights Shadow while Black Doom gathers the Chaos Emeralds and prepares to transform into Devil Doom. However, as the fight goes on, the revived Shadow begins to have fragmented flashbacks to his previous life; From the incidents aboard the ARK, to meeting Sonic and stopping the Biolizard. This would distract Shadow enough for Sonic to gain the upper hand, and bring the fight to a stalemate. Then, Black Doom - now in possession of the Chaos Emeralds - tells Shadow to stand down (Shadow has, in his eyes, fulfilled his intended purpose) and teleports away with the Chaos Emeralds in tow. We then get a cool CG cutscene of Black Doom transforming into Devil Doom, while laughing menacingly and calling everyone “pitiful fools” as he begins laying waste to the entire planet singlehandedly. Meanwhile, back on the ground, we cut to Eggman - along with the Chaotix - attempting to get into a different part of his headquarters, where Eggman uses his computers to transmit a video signal to the Black Comet. The video signal is the same recording we saw at the end of the Final Story section in the base Shadow the Hedgehog game. Cut back to Sonic and Shadow on the Black Comet, where the video appears on a series of screens surrounding the room the two hedgehogs are in, causing Shadow to fall to the floor clutching his head, the flashbacks from before now flooding his mind and playing almost nonstop, all while he can still hear the video playing. After a little bit, the video ends, and we see Shadow still on the ground clutching his head for a few moments, until he finally calms down. Sonic then approaches Shadow, asking him if he’s alright, and - after a tense pause - Shadow opens his eyes and says “I’m going to *destroy* you, Black Doom!”, teleporting himself away and leaving Sonic by himself. Sonic then chuckles and says to himself: “Gotta give the guy credit, he sure has his priorities straight.” before jetting off to join Shadow in confronting Devil Doom. The two hedgehogs eventually congregate on the roof of a heavily-damaged Egg Fleet airship, watching Devil Doom wreak havoc across the ground below. Shadow initially tries to jump in and fight Devil Doom on his own, but Sonic grabs hold of him and says: “Hold on a sec. Before you go trying to get yourself killed again, I’ve got an idea…” Sonic then uses his power to summon the Chaos Emeralds, surrounding both himself and Shadow in their colorful aura as they transform into Super Sonic and Super Shadow. Sonic then says to Shadow: “Okay. *Now* you can go nuts.”, and the two hedgehogs fly off to fight Devil Doom. During the fight, you’ll need to switch between Sonic and Shadow, as Devil Doom will periodically use his mind control powers to temporarily take over Shadow and fight Sonic. Once you’ve freed Shadow from Devil Doom’s control, you can then use him to dish out some serious damage. This process repeats until Devil Doom’s health is whittled down, upon which Devil Doom will attempt to use the last of his power to kill Shadow, declaring: “If you will not obey me, then I will take back what is rightfully mine!”. Ultimately, Devil Doom doesn’t succeed in killing Shadow, but he does knock him out, causing him to begin falling to the Earth once again. This time, however, Sonic swoops in and catches Shadow, and makes a safe descent to the Earth’s surface, where he places the unconscious Shadow in the arms of Rouge the Bat before his super form expires, and he runs off to parts unknown to rest. The story would then conclude with a shot of Rouge holding Shadow as the camera zooms out and fades to the credits as we watch GUN help humanity slowly rebuild after the invasion. After the credits, we get a bonus scene, where we see Shadow standing on the hill from the beginning of the base game overlooking Westopolis, contemplating everything he’s experienced thus far. A healed Sonic then rushes by and stops to playfully taunt the brooding hedgehog and challenge him to a friendly race around the city before running off again. Shadow then simply shakes his head, a smirk on his face as he says to himself: “Hedgehog…you never change.”, and he begins to chase after Sonic, determined to beat him. From here we get an End Title Card, and the game fades to black. …And that’s it. 2. This second idea is more or less the same story from above, but take out the extra scenes with Shadow, and replace him with some sort of equivalent (this would be a good way to bring back Eclipse from the Archie series and make him canon to the series). And this time, make the replacement character fuse with Black Doom for the final boss fight, and have both Eggman and the GUN Commander provide mech-based backup for Sonic. With the conclusion being that Devil Doom tries to take out all three characters at once, and ultimately failing, but not without disabling Eggman and the GUN Commander’s mechs, causing them to plummet to the Earth’s surface before Sonic catches them and carries them to safety. Sonic - after his super form expires - then runs off to rest, and the GUN Commander then makes a remark about immediately starting on the rebuilding process and walks away, leaving Eggman alone with his thoughts. The game would do the same zooming out shot from before, but while slowly fading to black as the credits roll, leaving the ending on a somber, more introspective note.
I had a theory that sega originally intended eggman to turn over a new leaf after sonic adventure 2, considering he isnt the bad guy in heroes, and he actually helps shadow take on black doom at the end of shadow. I feel like they wanted to go somewhere with that at some point, but then soft rebooted everything with 06 and scrapped it. Having eggman play battle nurse and join in with sonic again really feeds into that, and Im curious what a world where eggman legitimately turns over a new leaf looks like.
Honestly I want to explore some more of this softer eggman in a different series. If eggman turned good, what other stories are out there? 06 shadow and heroes can still happen. Unleashed doesn't though. Neither does generations or lost world..... But then having Dr. Starline come into the picture creates a whole new world of possibilities
@@SurisVidya I haven't read the idw comics so I don't know much about Dr starline, but it could be that where blaze comes from doesn't change every game, so eggman nega can be more relevant. Maybe he even brain washes eggman into being evil again for a while. Definitely changes the trajectory of the series long term though
Nega would just become an Archie comics problem Where eggman died and was replaced by a robot from the future..forever. Thus maintaining the status quo
I have been saying for many years now that Shadow should have died at the end of Sonic Adventure 2 and I say this as a Shadow fan. Bringing Shadow back to life in Sonic Heroes diminished the emotional impact of his sacrifice at the end of Sonic Adventure 2. At least if Shadow died at the end of Sonic Adventure 2, he could have been reunited with his best friend Maria in Heaven.
you have absolutely earned your self a subscription, i can't wait to see how things line up from here on out, what happens to metal sonic in the future? how does the absence of shadow affect sonic 06? with metal sonic being the only hedgehog/robot that can properly go super, does metal sonic help silver and sonic take down iblis? and without shadow, what happens to mephiles? because shadow and silver together are the ones that seal mephiles away in the past. to say nothing of the black arms, we'll probably see rouge in the "shadow the hedgehog" game only because GUN is a BIG part of that story, i really like this premise, and it looks like it could shape up into quite the series, the change to heroes by itself was already massive, and this is only the first ripple in the story of the whole change. can't wait to see the next part! keep up the great work.
Here is an idea I have if you wanted Omega closer to their original demeanour. First of all, I doubt Omega could stay at eggman’s side for long. They’re short-tempered, and don’t let people tell them what they must do. He rebels; but he doesn’t join a team, there was never one, and throughout most of Heroes he’s morally ambiguous: each campaign would likely have to fight him separately. At the end, I’d reckon they’d take a peg off Neo; not because they want to help the Sonic crew, but because Neo is associated with Eggman, and thus is an enemy of theirs. Also, taking a piece from you; I definitely want to have a moment with Amy debunking her assumption that Omega is Gamma, maybe something along the lines of this: “Thank you for helping us Mr. Robot” *Stares silently* “You’re not Mr. Robot, are you?” “I am E-123 Omega, who is ‘Mr. Robot?’” “Just someone I knew; you’re quite a bit like them, you know that?” “Evaluate” “Well, you’re both big powerful robots who helped me out and rebelled against Eggman. From what I’ve seen, you seem to have lost purpose; you’re always welcome to join us Omega!” *Considering* “Oh well; ‘till we meet again” Excuse me for bad dialogue but yeah, I think this could be a good way to merge the main canon with this what if?
I personally would’ve still incorporated Rouge, but with a twist GUN instructs Rouge to look into Eggman due to reports of his Badniks gathering a ton of materials, this being for the Egg Fleet She’d sneak in and find the room containing all of the Shadow Androids Knowing this, she’d try to escape in order to contact HQ, but get found by Omega, mimicking how Team Dark’s story canonically began She’d just narrowly escape, and not only inform GUN, but swing over to Angel Island to tell Knuckles, giving him a heads up in case the fleet come to take the Master Emerald This would keep Rouge and the Shadow Androids in the plot, as well as give a better explanation on why Knuckles left the island But I did very much enjoy your take on this idea, and can’t wait for more!
@@SurisVidya I thought as much But, I think having at least one would be interesting After all, Eggman would still try to capitalize on making something as powerful as Shadow Doubly so considering Metal Sonic and Omega’s betrayal, and the Black Arms if you still have them appear later But I’m still excited to see where you take the story
The reason Shadow survived is because of Super Shadow which gave him Nigh Invulnerability, like if you tried to sacrifice your life in a form like that, you ain't gonna die and we see in his game, he had been locked out of his Chaos Powers which Chaos Spear debuted in the Rival Fight in SA2 and SA2 Battle and it's not until fusing with the Emeralds he gets CS back. Also TBI Victims are apathetic and negative, Shadow became one but the Emeralds he gets restores his mind, we see after Westopolis he has flashbacks of his past and so an entire reason to collect them.
I can't wait for the sequel. Shadow the Hedgehog is a story that I've pained over trying to figure out a better way of doing. The way the game is structured is what makes it so hard. Even if you keep shadow alive, there's just so much going on and so many terrible things they chose to do that any attempt at rewriting the plot ends up in less of an amendment and more of a total overhaul.
Don't forget Omega had formed a friendship with Shadow before he was tasked by humanity to take down Shadow. Meaning Shadow was likely holding back as to not hurt one of his very few friends although this can be countered with Omega being able to capture Shadow alive in one piece instead of just taking his life in the future of 06.
Doc Brown (from Back to the Future series) reaction of Sega and Sonic turning against Shadow for some reason. It demonstrates precisely how bringing back the Ultimate Lifeform can be misused, and why Shadow the Hedgehog must stay dead (or) stay in a capsule. After we straighten all this out.
As much as I hate the way Shadow's been portrayed lately...I just can't see a world without him being a world worth living in. He's changed the lives of so many characters that not even SONIC would be the same without him.
i saw in a video that originally rouge will be part of team rose but thanks of shadows comeback they made big be the third member of team rose and put omega into the game
This is really interesting to see. Can't wait to see any possible next installments. Also god damn the eyes, I can't after the whole among us anime eyes thing
My wife interupted this video to say: "You can't fix what aint broken" which is weird cus she constantly says all sonic games are terrible. "Yeah but he's talking about Shadow as a character. The games are terrible, but the characters are amazing and that's why it makes such good movies and TV shows". I don't think Shadow is in any of the shows? "Yeah but he's still a great character in his game" But... the game is bad? "Yeah the game sucks" My wife, ladies and gentlemen. Edit: "I'm correct! I'm 100% correct in my assessment"
Loved this, love What If stories and wish more Sonic creators thought of them As for ShTH, it's interesting how close the Black Arms came to winning even if the Hero Story is considered main canon like I believe Izuka said. However, there is the question of how they would obtain the Chaos Emeralds without Shadow collecting them for them. I think that if they're able to obtain the two in Westopolis, the heroes would maybe start mounting a unified defense of the remaining five emeralds while they figure out how to get rid of the aliens. I'm also interested in how '06 will go down. Horrible time travel stuff aside, Rouge and Eggman were looking for the Dark Scepter regardless of Shadow. Maybe Mephiles takes on the form of Rouge instead?
Whether people realise it or not Shadow was THE most important piece to defeating Mephiles. He was the only one to see through his schemes and distracted him long enough for Sonic to save Elise (paving way for her to ressurect him later) by reavealing the truth to Silver who helped Sonic travel back far enough to do so. Without Shadow, yeah, I imagine the Black Arms would still be defeated (though it would be MUCH more difficult) but Mephiles would still be sealed as it was the Duke who did so in the original timeline. And without Shadow there Sonic would've died alot sooner and Silver would never have discovered the truth. And because of this they wouldn't be able to defeat Solaris without the Super Hogs, meaning that the Multiverse is done for.
Why does metal overlord look like it belongs in metroid? I'm looking at spinball fight and all I can hear is pinball noises forever. On the one hand the Shadow with a gun thing just... looks so funny to me. On the other it's the only thing keeping me from calling him Batman the Hedgehog. Anyway this video was great. Gonna head to part 2 next.
Just out of curiosity, do the black arms still exist in this continuity? If we’re looking at this from a real life development standpoint, it makes sense that shadows Lore wouldn’t be expanded upon since he’s already dead, however in universe it would make sense for them to still exist. Anyway I’m also interested in see how 06 will be affected, I have to wonder whom Mephiles will steal a shadow from? In the original game he stole Shadow’s shadow which is why he looks the way he does, but if he stole the shade of someone like rouge (since she stole the scepter of darkness from Eggman) or anyone else, Mephiles would look incredibly different. Not to mention some of his abilities might be different, since he did steal some of shadows abilities which allowed him to better manipulate the chaos emeralds.
Jokes on you; Takeshi Iizuka said in a magazine from 2005 that he'd wanted Shadow to have his own game ever since SA2. Plus (or so I've heard) Shiro Meakawa never planned for Shadow to be dead anyway.
This reminds me how i feels the the way IDW handles shadow now, yeah he is there and he do some stuff but most of the time he is kinda not necessary or just dont show up. Its a interesting video looking forward to the next one
If Infinite the Jackal travel back in time and kill Shadow the Ultimate Lifeform before the events of Sonic Heroes, none of this would have ever happened. Meaning: Team Dark, Shadow the Hedgehog (video game), Sonic 2006, and more Shadow's actions will never exist at all. Shadow killed the Jackal Squad, and turned Infinite into a monster on purpose. And Infinite wants his family (Jackal Squad) back immediately.
I don't see how the Black Arms can be defeated without Shadow, since he's the only one capable of killing the Black Arms. So without Shadow, then Black Doom wins.
One idea I had for shadow the hedgehog is silver coming into the story. In silvers timeline, soon after the black arms attacked the world went up in flames. He comes back to a) figure out what happened with the whole fire thing and b) how to stop the black arms. He could know that the heroes were stopped by the toxin, and thus warns them of that. This could then set off the plot of 06 early, or at least make the heroes aware that iblis exists.
Okay two things, one I think a Team Dark could actually work here with Rouge on an assignment for G.U.N. to get at Eggman’s computer data, have Omega guard that, and have another character brought back from older games with Nack the Weasel from Sonic Fighters. And two, why not call this new game “Sonic Eclipse” and have the blue blue see what happened when going into Shadow’s creation via him being mistaken for him by Black Doom and have that alien use his weird powers to tempt Sonic into doing the evil stuff Shadow did in certain timelines. Just one of these things being thought of would be fine by me.
Bringing back Shadow the Ultimate Lifeform (between Sonic Heroes - present) has caused an anomaly for some reason. Including: 1.) The rise of the Black Arms (alien invasion) = Shadow the Hedgehog (2005 video game) 2.) Solaris Project explosion and Day of Disaster (Solaris/Iblis/Mephiles the Dark rampaging) = Sonic 2006 3.) Sticks the Badger paranoia of aliens, governments, whatever treating as dangerous threats = Sonic Boom 4.) Death of the Jackal Squad and the rise of Infinite = Sonic Forces 5.) Sonadow (Sonic and Shadow shipping) 6.) Shadow as an edge lord 7.) And much worse...
I think that shadow would survive, but it would take a long time, like maybe shadow would go into silvers timeline and he will get released, but he will help silver look for iblis triger
Bringing Shadow the Ultimate Lifeform back to Sonic Heroes was our fault and a very big mistake. If Shadow never returned between Sonic Heroes - present in the first place, none of this would have ever happened. And now everything is becoming from bad to worse for Shadow forever.
It's kinda weird to not see Rouge, but I don't know who she could be grouped with. Bark and Bean are fun, but they're usually set up with Nack/Fang. Mighty and Rey are a decent pair, but then they don't fit with the whole speed/power/flight dynamic. Hate to say it, but cutting Rouge was the right choice. How she shows up later.
I was thinking about shadow not existing in 06 and I realised the story probably wouldn’t have happened Eggman would have had Mephiles and therefore silver wouldn’t have been told about sonic causing Iblis
Yeah, but Tails and Knuckles relied on the Super Emeralds to turn super as they both weren't experienced in chaos energy as Sonic and Shadow. The only thing that would happen is that knuckles and Tails would get some form of chaos energy but they wouldn't go full super.
2:20 Why need Shadow’s data when Sonic has the same data and more. Minus the chaos powers. I still don’t like it how it’s so obscure that Sonic is the true Ultimate Lifeform only because the story never directly said that aside from Shadow. Even though the evidence is clearly there, but no, it’s never been fully confirmed outside of that one line from Final Hazard, most people will miss.
@@leonardoalvarenga7572 Well that’s Super Sonic, but just look at the story of SA2 with Sonic and Shadow’s relationship or the biolizard going to Shadow.
@@leonardoalvarenga7572 To sum it up, it’s more so Sonic’s personality and his powers that comes from it that makes him the Ultimate Lifeform. And still, Super Sonic isn’t a different character then Sonic.
Sonic is not the ultimate life form. The Angel Island mural is a prophecy of Sonic fighting Eggman over the Master Emerald, there is nothing that suggests an ultimate life form. Sonic also doesn’t meet Gerald’s definition of the ultimate life form. Before you say that Shadow called Sonic the ultimate life form in SA, every other game has all the characters, including Sonic and Shadow, treat Shadow as the ultimate life form. Ian Flynn, one of the writers of IDW and Sonic Frontiers even states that Shadow was probably joking about how similar he and Sonic are. At best, Gerald may have based Shadow’s form on the Super Sonic mural, but that theory has gotten weaker over the years due to Super Sonic and Shadow no longer having matching quills and two worlds behind debunked. There is also several continuities where Shadow exists despite the Super Sonic mural not existing, such as Sonic X, Sonic Boom and the movies. It’s a theory that is spread around as fact, nothing more.
So actually they were planning to not have shadow in heroes the teams would be the same for TS and TC but TR would be amy cream and rouge there would be fang bean and bark would be a team and mighty ray and metal sonic would be a team but shadow was so popular they brought him back
i have a slight idea as since shadow is really powerful he could survive the fall but and huge but he has FULL amnesia not the partial one where he starts to remember but has NO MEMORIES and cant seem to regain his lost ones but is effectively raised by another young girl that basically becomes his whole motivation and he wasn't present here as eggman never found him but the whole of shadow the hedgehog (the game) could be replaced with a story where the girl found a chaos emerald and gets kidnapped by eggman because of it and then shadow (or whatever his name would be in this scenario) would go all out trying to get her and when eggman realizes its shadow would make a slight attempt to get him his memories back but they dont come back and he stays as his new self but with the knowledge of his old name it kinda would keep the idea that after finishing his promise with maria shadow had nothing left for his caracter and it would stop him from being the edgelord he is today
I'm interested to see what would come of this by Sonic 06's events. Mephiles would have slid by completely unnoticed and Solaris would have been undefeated. And without Shadow bringing Silver back in time and helping him figure out that Sonic isn't his enemy, Silver would have remained an antagonist.
Yes, but what if post-SA2 Shadow was a clone after all? There's no reason a plot can't be contrived that Shadow's data came from his remains, or spilled blood, or a sample collected sometime when Shadow was working for Eggman. Retconning Original Shadow doesn't necessarily deprive the plot of a Shadow.
20:10 I honestly think SDW (game) would still in a way have a Shadow. I mean the overall story is made of multiple endings & routes and Eggman did make a bunch of Shadow Androids. It would be cool if one of those androids went rouge and had a imposter syndrome story. When you really think about it, we could have gotten an interesting story of Shadow learning who he was and question if he is the same person as before. (I probably could've worded this a lot better)
If Shadow died, he'd never have gone back in time to seal Mephiles; meaning the timeline gets erased.
I mean, Mephiles was already sealed away before the Time Travel Shenanigans in 06 happened so he could've been sealed away by someone else.
@ mephiles was sealed in the past because of shadow. if shadow died prior, silver and him would never have travelled to the past to stop it. thus the whole timeline is erased
Since Omega is still a thing in this timeline it's probably safe to say that Eggman cataloged Shadows data. My guess is that during the events of Shadow The Hedgehog Black Doom will try to strong arm Eggman into making Shadow Androids or a entirely new being based off of Shadow's data. So it would probably come down to Sonic and Metal Sonic.
We will see?
That reasoning is way too motivated. It's a stark contrast when Rouge is so sidelined, no, if you just swipe out Shadow to make room for what you WISH to see in hindsight, it will come off derivative. That's what makes up the "fanficcy" tone, it's a result of being too uncreative to bridge the gap from consumer to a producer of fiction. The speculative fiction method, will set it out logically so that other characters FILL IN where Shadow is lacking, because that's how things actually happen in real life. It's functionlally base level world-building with a proper respect of charcters as part of the world. Not just a house of cards of a story that hangs in the air after some cards are missing.
Omega's motivation out of boredom seems like fanon garbage, much like Mephiles being just too darn evil to have a plan that makes any sense. No, those are just an intrinsic character archetype and Sonic 06 being poorly written, which I mention to make the point on the difference. Emergent storytelling doesn't mean we have handwave either as non-canon, but still, you have to respect the platfrom from which the storytelling emerges, not just decide you don't like the author's ideas so you vote with your forum friends how to fix their art. If Omega exists, he just has to hate Eggman, because the motivation why was never the be-all, it only ever existed to fill in the blank in the bio.
Rouge being hard to justify is only an effect of Sonic Team failing to keep up with GUN plot lines, though Rouge is suggested to work outside of GUN in SA2 if you go by conventinal logic. The President is not the chief operative OF GUN, there's a separation of powers so he uses an external agent, that's all. So if you really want to imagine Rouge missing in Heroes, it would be because you write off the whole GUN/espionage theme that never needed Shadow to begin with. Rouge might just as well be there and stumble upon something else.
As long as there's Chaos, it's ample motivation for GUN to come a bout and President ot monitor them with Rouge as a double-agent. GUN and the e-series are kinda this thematic arms race, so they should still be in production, so Rouge would investigate the GUN ENEMY anyway, with or without Shadow. In my opinion, "some data of Shadow still exists" totally cops out from the original thought experiment of LETTING Shadow be gone.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 wha?
I think Rouge would still kind of be in. Maybe Team Sonic comes near to her GUN mission and "Oooooh, Kuckless"
@@sboinkthelegday3892 Thank you for this lesson in storytelling.
Man do you imagine if the time used for Team Dark in heroes would have been used for another of the teams that was originally thought, imagine how the franchise would be if big didn't came back and Rouge stayes with amy and cream, or Mighty and Ray became some sort of buddies to the villain, or how fascinating it would be to have seen the hooligans stablish themselves as part of the main cast.
Great video Suris!! You are a great writer and you have a great sense of imagination!
Although I’m personally very happy shadow came back after the events of sonic adventure 2, as I would personally argue his relationship with team dark alone justifies him returning as there is a lot of potential with that group, I can’t deny that it’s interesting to think how different the games would’ve been if someone at saga said “let’s just stick with our guns and keep him dead“.
Honestly in this timeline the only time I could see Shadow returning would be as a rival fight in Sonic Generations, kind of like how classic metal sonic and perfect chaos got a brief come back due to the time travel nature.
Without Shadow, I'm honestly not too sure how Sonic and Co. will even succeed against the Black Arms since everybody got infected with a neural toxin in the final story and only Shadow was immune to its effect. I think in this timeline, every party available (Sonic and friends, G.U.N and Eggman) will undoubtedly have to team up. I believe it will ultimately be Sonic once again that will defeat Black Doom in his super form but I do believe Omega and maybe Metal Sonic can play a vital role in the story at least at the end. Since they're robots, they won't get infected by the toxin, and since Omega has the power to take on Shadow, I don't think much of the Black Arms besides Black Doom will be much of a challenge to him. Idk a Sonic/Omega vs Black Doom fight could be pretty interesting.
Oh I've got a plan for that...and the numeral toxin will take CENTRR stage:)
how about we have a super metal sonic w/wo chaos boosted omega vs black doom? that would be dope
My favorite Shadow story continues to be that one StH ending where he reflects on his past and comes to the revelation that he needs to protect the ark and all of the emeralds essentially becoming a second Knuckles type character guarding all the emeralds and the revelations that Gerald had.
It would add nice explanation to a lot of games not involving emeralds, give a lot of purpose for Shadow to build off of, and make threats look a lot worse when emeralds are involved because it means Shadow was involved and defeated or worked around.
Sonic: Super speedy hedgehog
Tail: Flying genius fox
Knuckles: Super strong echidna
Omega: *GUN*
In Heroes, you can still have Team Dark but instead Rouge finds Omega locked up. He would be a robot made by Eggman to surpass project Shadow.
Shadow's game could be about a clone deciding what path to take but ultimately choosing the same fate.
I'm glad Shadow didn't stay dead because there would've been serious dire consequences like Black Doom and The Black Arms winning The Ark crashing on Earth and causing an eternal winter and so many deaths we wouldn't have Mephiles or Silver or Shadow's game at all this would be the worst possible thing ever.
Shadow is too much of a great character to stay dead.
It's really cool to see Omega as a threatening villain. I don't know how shadow the hedgehog would work without shadow but good luck to you
Absolutely loved seeing Big with quite literally a big role to play in this what if. And the little greeting between Big and Eggman was a cute nod to Big's theme.
Thanks! I don't hate big and I actually wish he got more love in mainline games
@@SurisVidya Same here dude.
“I’m the coolest” his last words to sonic before he fell down from space 😂
Thanks again for having my work here, Suris. This was insanely fun to do!
You did great, Smaco!
Good work!
@@ChannelPup i really appreciate it!
@@Gilbot9000
You did great dude!!
I like the idea that Omega takes center stage here in a way that let's him shine.
Just goes to show how much of a black hole Shadow is. And I say that as someone who loves him too.
I also just really like omega
@@SurisVidya I agree Omega, is cool.
Forgotten character tiara cyderoki is cyder being so I believe she can help fight
Id love a team Eggman that didn't have to include Zavok in it. It would be nice to have an Eggman creation besides Metal that stuck around as a threat
Honestly, I've also debated how much I wanna focus on zavok
How about Mecha?
I love that “I’m the coolest” on his tombstone😂
Of course
Wanna make a correction, the secret treasure that Rouge is looking for at the beginning of Sonic Heroes is NOT Shadow. This is proven at the end of the game where she says out loud to herself that she's gonna go find that secret treasure, and after the conversation with Omega concludes that this whole thing was a bust.
Honestly I always felt that line doesn't dismiss that shadow was the treasure.
She just didn't gauge shadow as the treasure because she doesn't categorize him that way.
In terms of where to go with Shadow the Hedgehog (the game), I can think of two ideas off the top of my head:
1. If we wanna begin resetting everything back to the pre-death status quo, we could have it so that at the beginning of the story, about 48 hours before the Fire in the Sky festival, Black Doom rolls up to Eggman’s headquarters and basically tells him: “Yeah, Shadow technically belongs to me. And since he and Professor Gerald are dead, *you’re* gonna help me remake Shadow from the ground up…or I’ll destroy you, your equipment, and everything associated with you.” After which the 48 hours passes, the Fire in the Sky festival takes place, and Black Doom uses the festival as an opportunity to begin teleporting his minions down to Earth so they can invade and conquer it in his name. At this point, Sonic and his friends (along with GUN) catch wind of random alien sightings around the world, and begin to investigate.
As the plot continues, the plan to revive Shadow is revealed to both Sonic and Co. and GUN, and the rest of the story would focus on Sonic and Co.‘s attempts to ward off the incoming invasion and keep Black Doom and Eggman from reviving Shadow. (If this were a game mechanic, you could have it so that Sonic would have to complete all of a given level’s objectives to most effectively thwart Black Doom’s invasion and Shadow revival plans, with each failed objective accumulating over time and bringing Shadow’s revival closer to completion.)
The final act would have Sonic, all of his friends, and GUN storming both Eggman’s headquarters and the Black Comet, where - depending on what happened in the previous story acts - the good guys would either face Black Doom and Eggman with an upgraded Omega (which would buy them some extra time to finish up what they can of their attempted revival of Shadow), or they have to face Black Doom and Eggman with a fully-revived Shadow (who has been made to be loyal to Black Doom specifically). Either way, this would lead into a final story section where - after being defeated by Sonic and Co. - Black Doom (with Shadow in tow) retreats to the Black Comet, with Black Doom renouncing his partnership with Eggman and declaring his intent to destroy the world if he can’t conquer it. Sonic then follows Black Doom and Shadow (by himself) to the Black Comet, where - after trekking through the Black Comet’s otherworldly and intimidating architecture - he confronts Black Doom and Shadow, attempting to try and resuscitate the latter’s memories and get him on his side.
Initially, it seems like this doesn’t work, and Sonic fights Shadow while Black Doom gathers the Chaos Emeralds and prepares to transform into Devil Doom.
However, as the fight goes on, the revived Shadow begins to have fragmented flashbacks to his previous life; From the incidents aboard the ARK, to meeting Sonic and stopping the Biolizard. This would distract Shadow enough for Sonic to gain the upper hand, and bring the fight to a stalemate. Then, Black Doom - now in possession of the Chaos Emeralds - tells Shadow to stand down (Shadow has, in his eyes, fulfilled his intended purpose) and teleports away with the Chaos Emeralds in tow.
We then get a cool CG cutscene of Black Doom transforming into Devil Doom, while laughing menacingly and calling everyone “pitiful fools” as he begins laying waste to the entire planet singlehandedly.
Meanwhile, back on the ground, we cut to Eggman - along with the Chaotix - attempting to get into a different part of his headquarters, where Eggman uses his computers to transmit a video signal to the Black Comet. The video signal is the same recording we saw at the end of the Final Story section in the base Shadow the Hedgehog game.
Cut back to Sonic and Shadow on the Black Comet, where the video appears on a series of screens surrounding the room the two hedgehogs are in, causing Shadow to fall to the floor clutching his head, the flashbacks from before now flooding his mind and playing almost nonstop, all while he can still hear the video playing.
After a little bit, the video ends, and we see Shadow still on the ground clutching his head for a few moments, until he finally calms down. Sonic then approaches Shadow, asking him if he’s alright, and - after a tense pause - Shadow opens his eyes and says “I’m going to *destroy* you, Black Doom!”, teleporting himself away and leaving Sonic by himself. Sonic then chuckles and says to himself: “Gotta give the guy credit, he sure has his priorities straight.” before jetting off to join Shadow in confronting Devil Doom.
The two hedgehogs eventually congregate on the roof of a heavily-damaged Egg Fleet airship, watching Devil Doom wreak havoc across the ground below. Shadow initially tries to jump in and fight Devil Doom on his own, but Sonic grabs hold of him and says: “Hold on a sec. Before you go trying to get yourself killed again, I’ve got an idea…”
Sonic then uses his power to summon the Chaos Emeralds, surrounding both himself and Shadow in their colorful aura as they transform into Super Sonic and Super Shadow. Sonic then says to Shadow: “Okay. *Now* you can go nuts.”, and the two hedgehogs fly off to fight Devil Doom.
During the fight, you’ll need to switch between Sonic and Shadow, as Devil Doom will periodically use his mind control powers to temporarily take over Shadow and fight Sonic. Once you’ve freed Shadow from Devil Doom’s control, you can then use him to dish out some serious damage. This process repeats until Devil Doom’s health is whittled down, upon which Devil Doom will attempt to use the last of his power to kill Shadow, declaring: “If you will not obey me, then I will take back what is rightfully mine!”.
Ultimately, Devil Doom doesn’t succeed in killing Shadow, but he does knock him out, causing him to begin falling to the Earth once again.
This time, however, Sonic swoops in and catches Shadow, and makes a safe descent to the Earth’s surface, where he places the unconscious Shadow in the arms of Rouge the Bat before his super form expires, and he runs off to parts unknown to rest.
The story would then conclude with a shot of Rouge holding Shadow as the camera zooms out and fades to the credits as we watch GUN help humanity slowly rebuild after the invasion.
After the credits, we get a bonus scene, where we see Shadow standing on the hill from the beginning of the base game overlooking Westopolis, contemplating everything he’s experienced thus far.
A healed Sonic then rushes by and stops to playfully taunt the brooding hedgehog and challenge him to a friendly race around the city before running off again.
Shadow then simply shakes his head, a smirk on his face as he says to himself: “Hedgehog…you never change.”, and he begins to chase after Sonic, determined to beat him.
From here we get an End Title Card, and the game fades to black.
…And that’s it.
2. This second idea is more or less the same story from above, but take out the extra scenes with Shadow, and replace him with some sort of equivalent (this would be a good way to bring back Eclipse from the Archie series and make him canon to the series). And this time, make the replacement character fuse with Black Doom for the final boss fight, and have both Eggman and the GUN Commander provide mech-based backup for Sonic. With the conclusion being that Devil Doom tries to take out all three characters at once, and ultimately failing, but not without disabling Eggman and the GUN Commander’s mechs, causing them to plummet to the Earth’s surface before Sonic catches them and carries them to safety.
Sonic - after his super form expires - then runs off to rest, and the GUN Commander then makes a remark about immediately starting on the rebuilding process and walks away, leaving Eggman alone with his thoughts. The game would do the same zooming out shot from before, but while slowly fading to black as the credits roll, leaving the ending on a somber, more introspective note.
I had a theory that sega originally intended eggman to turn over a new leaf after sonic adventure 2, considering he isnt the bad guy in heroes, and he actually helps shadow take on black doom at the end of shadow. I feel like they wanted to go somewhere with that at some point, but then soft rebooted everything with 06 and scrapped it. Having eggman play battle nurse and join in with sonic again really feeds into that, and Im curious what a world where eggman legitimately turns over a new leaf looks like.
Honestly I want to explore some more of this softer eggman in a different series.
If eggman turned good, what other stories are out there?
06 shadow and heroes can still happen. Unleashed doesn't though. Neither does generations or lost world.....
But then having Dr. Starline come into the picture creates a whole new world of possibilities
@@SurisVidya I haven't read the idw comics so I don't know much about Dr starline, but it could be that where blaze comes from doesn't change every game, so eggman nega can be more relevant. Maybe he even brain washes eggman into being evil again for a while. Definitely changes the trajectory of the series long term though
Nega would just become an Archie comics problem
Where eggman died and was replaced by a robot from the future..forever.
Thus maintaining the status quo
"Hey, big guy"
"Hey little guy"
Hahahaha nice reference.
I have been saying for many years now that Shadow should have died at the end of Sonic Adventure 2 and I say this as a Shadow fan. Bringing Shadow back to life in Sonic Heroes diminished the emotional impact of his sacrifice at the end of Sonic Adventure 2. At least if Shadow died at the end of Sonic Adventure 2, he could have been reunited with his best friend Maria in Heaven.
Really love content like this, can’t wait to see more of this what-if series
Working on it :)
Rouge could tag with team rose instead of big, sega themselves were considering this before bringing shadow back.
I always felt Shadow would have been better if he'd not returned after SA2 and it's nice to see someone else thinking through this concept.
I love shadow, but i do also like what ifs so...here we be
you have absolutely earned your self a subscription, i can't wait to see how things line up from here on out, what happens to metal sonic in the future? how does the absence of shadow affect sonic 06? with metal sonic being the only hedgehog/robot that can properly go super, does metal sonic help silver and sonic take down iblis? and without shadow, what happens to mephiles? because shadow and silver together are the ones that seal mephiles away in the past. to say nothing of the black arms, we'll probably see rouge in the "shadow the hedgehog" game only because GUN is a BIG part of that story, i really like this premise, and it looks like it could shape up into quite the series, the change to heroes by itself was already massive, and this is only the first ripple in the story of the whole change. can't wait to see the next part! keep up the great work.
Here is an idea I have if you wanted Omega closer to their original demeanour.
First of all, I doubt Omega could stay at eggman’s side for long. They’re short-tempered, and don’t let people tell them what they must do. He rebels; but he doesn’t join a team, there was never one, and throughout most of Heroes he’s morally ambiguous: each campaign would likely have to fight him separately. At the end, I’d reckon they’d take a peg off Neo; not because they want to help the Sonic crew, but because Neo is associated with Eggman, and thus is an enemy of theirs. Also, taking a piece from you; I definitely want to have a moment with Amy debunking her assumption that Omega is Gamma, maybe something along the lines of this:
“Thank you for helping us Mr. Robot”
*Stares silently*
“You’re not Mr. Robot, are you?”
“I am E-123 Omega, who is ‘Mr. Robot?’”
“Just someone I knew; you’re quite a bit like them, you know that?”
“Evaluate”
“Well, you’re both big powerful robots who helped me out and rebelled against Eggman. From what I’ve seen, you seem to have lost purpose; you’re always welcome to join us Omega!”
*Considering*
“Oh well; ‘till we meet again”
Excuse me for bad dialogue but yeah, I think this could be a good way to merge the main canon with this what if?
With this in mind .. I think you'll like part 2.
A lot.
This was well-written! I wonder how you'd rewrite any and all other games with a shadow heavy presence.
Shadow the hedgehog will be an endeavor
Shadow died so Big could thrive 🙏😔
Just the fact that you gave Tails and Knuckles their actual Super forms was enough for me to love this version.
I personally would’ve still incorporated Rouge, but with a twist
GUN instructs Rouge to look into Eggman due to reports of his Badniks gathering a ton of materials, this being for the Egg Fleet
She’d sneak in and find the room containing all of the Shadow Androids
Knowing this, she’d try to escape in order to contact HQ, but get found by Omega, mimicking how Team Dark’s story canonically began
She’d just narrowly escape, and not only inform GUN, but swing over to Angel Island to tell Knuckles, giving him a heads up in case the fleet come to take the Master Emerald
This would keep Rouge and the Shadow Androids in the plot, as well as give a better explanation on why Knuckles left the island
But I did very much enjoy your take on this idea, and can’t wait for more!
I think I'll be removing the shadow androids in this series, personally.
@@SurisVidya I thought as much
But, I think having at least one would be interesting
After all, Eggman would still try to capitalize on making something as powerful as Shadow
Doubly so considering Metal Sonic and Omega’s betrayal, and the Black Arms if you still have them appear later
But I’m still excited to see where you take the story
Basically if shadow was never popular. (He was supposed to die in SA2 and be a one time thing, but he was so popular they brought him back)
Dude I’ve been thinking about this for so long. Glad to see a video on it
I got more coming too!!
The reason Shadow survived is because of Super Shadow which gave him Nigh Invulnerability, like if you tried to sacrifice your life in a form like that, you ain't gonna die and we see in his game, he had been locked out of his Chaos Powers which Chaos Spear debuted in the Rival Fight in SA2 and SA2 Battle and it's not until fusing with the Emeralds he gets CS back. Also TBI Victims are apathetic and negative, Shadow became one but the Emeralds he gets restores his mind, we see after Westopolis he has flashbacks of his past and so an entire reason to collect them.
I can't wait for the sequel. Shadow the Hedgehog is a story that I've pained over trying to figure out a better way of doing. The way the game is structured is what makes it so hard. Even if you keep shadow alive, there's just so much going on and so many terrible things they chose to do that any attempt at rewriting the plot ends up in less of an amendment and more of a total overhaul.
Amazing Video Suris!
Thanks!
I generally haven't been interested in Sonic lore, but this was legit interesting. I kinda want to look more into it now.
LOVED THIS!!! You just gained a subscription
Thank you so much!
Don't forget Omega had formed a friendship with Shadow before he was tasked by humanity to take down Shadow. Meaning Shadow was likely holding back as to not hurt one of his very few friends although this can be countered with Omega being able to capture Shadow alive in one piece instead of just taking his life in the future of 06.
15:43 is from the lyrics of "Lazy Days Livin' in Paradise"!
Doc Brown (from Back to the Future series) reaction of Sega and Sonic turning against Shadow for some reason.
It demonstrates precisely how bringing back the Ultimate Lifeform can be misused, and why Shadow the Hedgehog must stay dead (or) stay in a capsule. After we straighten all this out.
As much as I hate the way Shadow's been portrayed lately...I just can't see a world without him being a world worth living in. He's changed the lives of so many characters that not even SONIC would be the same without him.
i saw in a video that originally rouge will be part of team rose but thanks of shadows comeback they made big be the third member of team rose and put omega into the game
I think I'm going to place her in team rose for shadow the hedgehog
This is really interesting to see. Can't wait to see any possible next installments.
Also god damn the eyes, I can't after the whole among us anime eyes thing
24:19 well, since he admitted it. Neo metal sonic: you do not tell me about coming and getting; I AM ON THE CUTTING EDEGE OF COMING AND GETTING.
I think this is a pretty good "theory" to how things would have been had Shadow not come back
I do miss Rouge tho
Reincarnation would explain why Classic Sonic is older than Modern Sonic and other things.
Ending up watching a sonic what if video. While not what I normally watch, it was insightful
My wife interupted this video to say: "You can't fix what aint broken" which is weird cus she constantly says all sonic games are terrible.
"Yeah but he's talking about Shadow as a character. The games are terrible, but the characters are amazing and that's why it makes such good movies and TV shows".
I don't think Shadow is in any of the shows?
"Yeah but he's still a great character in his game"
But... the game is bad?
"Yeah the game sucks"
My wife, ladies and gentlemen.
Edit: "I'm correct! I'm 100% correct in my assessment"
Espio looked like goldduck
i hate how many crew mates i saw
Big the Cat is a legend and this video certainly does him justice
Loved this, love What If stories and wish more Sonic creators thought of them
As for ShTH, it's interesting how close the Black Arms came to winning even if the Hero Story is considered main canon like I believe Izuka said. However, there is the question of how they would obtain the Chaos Emeralds without Shadow collecting them for them. I think that if they're able to obtain the two in Westopolis, the heroes would maybe start mounting a unified defense of the remaining five emeralds while they figure out how to get rid of the aliens.
I'm also interested in how '06 will go down. Horrible time travel stuff aside, Rouge and Eggman were looking for the Dark Scepter regardless of Shadow. Maybe Mephiles takes on the form of Rouge instead?
Just wait for part two then :)
I wonder if Metal could've found someone else to scan instead of Shadow
Unless he found a biolizard prototype or something
@@SurisVidyaThe shadow Androids on the ship?
@@TomtenPim The androids built off of data scanned off of Shadows biology when eggman had him alive in a pod.
No Shadow, no biodata.
@SurisVidya what if Eggman still found Shadows body? Couldn't he still get data off the corpse?
@@Nisky808 Potentially. But for our purposes, we'll nix the entire shadow android plot
Whether people realise it or not Shadow was THE most important piece to defeating Mephiles. He was the only one to see through his schemes and distracted him long enough for Sonic to save Elise (paving way for her to ressurect him later) by reavealing the truth to Silver who helped Sonic travel back far enough to do so. Without Shadow, yeah, I imagine the Black Arms would still be defeated (though it would be MUCH more difficult) but Mephiles would still be sealed as it was the Duke who did so in the original timeline. And without Shadow there Sonic would've died alot sooner and Silver would never have discovered the truth. And because of this they wouldn't be able to defeat Solaris without the Super Hogs, meaning that the Multiverse is done for.
I think I can see it happen, Mighty, Ray and Heavy and Bomb may take Team Dark’s place in Heroes.
2:43 (for later point)
Good artwork smaco
Here's an Idea for Sonic Heroes, the fourth team could be Eggman, Omega, and Metal Sonic, and the villian is Mecha Sonic instead of Metal Sonic
Once I saw that most of the characters eyes looked like Amogus I could not unsee it
Im glad someone noticed.
Hehehhehe
Why does metal overlord look like it belongs in metroid? I'm looking at spinball fight and all I can hear is pinball noises forever. On the one hand the Shadow with a gun thing just... looks so funny to me. On the other it's the only thing keeping me from calling him Batman the Hedgehog.
Anyway this video was great. Gonna head to part 2 next.
This was very good I enjoyed it
Just out of curiosity, do the black arms still exist in this continuity?
If we’re looking at this from a real life development standpoint, it makes sense that shadows Lore wouldn’t be expanded upon since he’s already dead, however in universe it would make sense for them to still exist.
Anyway I’m also interested in see how 06 will be affected, I have to wonder whom Mephiles will steal a shadow from? In the original game he stole Shadow’s shadow which is why he looks the way he does, but if he stole the shade of someone like rouge (since she stole the scepter of darkness from Eggman) or anyone else, Mephiles would look incredibly different. Not to mention some of his abilities might be different, since he did steal some of shadows abilities which allowed him to better manipulate the chaos emeralds.
Oh I have PLANS for the black arms
Jokes on you; Takeshi Iizuka said in a magazine from 2005 that he'd wanted Shadow to have his own game ever since SA2. Plus (or so I've heard) Shiro Meakawa never planned for Shadow to be dead anyway.
I think sonic 06 was where shadows character was at his peak
This reminds me how i feels the the way IDW handles shadow now, yeah he is there and he do some stuff but most of the time he is kinda not necessary or just dont show up.
Its a interesting video looking forward to the next one
If Infinite the Jackal travel back in time and kill Shadow the Ultimate Lifeform before the events of Sonic Heroes, none of this would have ever happened.
Meaning: Team Dark, Shadow the Hedgehog (video game), Sonic 2006, and more Shadow's actions will never exist at all.
Shadow killed the Jackal Squad, and turned Infinite into a monster on purpose. And Infinite wants his family (Jackal Squad) back immediately.
This is literally the best Sonic What-If Story I have ever seen.
Check out part 2 =)
@@SurisVidya oh.. I didn't know. Awesome
I'm hyped to see shadow the hedgehog...... without shadow the hedgehog?
It's gunna be fun
@@SurisVidya GUNna GET IT
I don't see how the Black Arms can be defeated without Shadow, since he's the only one capable of killing the Black Arms. So without Shadow, then Black Doom wins.
Shadow one shot Super Neo Metal Sonic.
Just letting the comments know that.
One idea I had for shadow the hedgehog is silver coming into the story. In silvers timeline, soon after the black arms attacked the world went up in flames. He comes back to a) figure out what happened with the whole fire thing and b) how to stop the black arms. He could know that the heroes were stopped by the toxin, and thus warns them of that. This could then set off the plot of 06 early, or at least make the heroes aware that iblis exists.
21:14 Tails has sum SUS eyes their. (now I’m wondering, would sum of the event from shadow the hedgehog even exist when shadow the hedgehog is dead?)
Some of them wouldn't. But I intend to flesh that one out majorly
I see those AMONGUS eyes you son of a b-
14:29 You make it sound like not even TAS bots can avoid Omega’s attacks.
10:10 but the first and only time was when sonic was near, and shadow does look like a sonic form
06, silver.
@@SurisVidya but before this took place
@@SurisVidya both times she hadn’t seen the ‘fake sonic’ and sonic was nearby
Okay two things, one I think a Team Dark could actually work here with Rouge on an assignment for G.U.N. to get at Eggman’s computer data, have Omega guard that, and have another character brought back from older games with Nack the Weasel from Sonic Fighters.
And two, why not call this new game “Sonic Eclipse” and have the blue blue see what happened when going into Shadow’s creation via him being mistaken for him by Black Doom and have that alien use his weird powers to tempt Sonic into doing the evil stuff Shadow did in certain timelines. Just one of these things being thought of would be fine by me.
Cool video!
Thanks!
I meant to watch this a lot sooner, and I can't wait to see the next chapter!
Bringing back Shadow the Ultimate Lifeform (between Sonic Heroes - present) has caused an anomaly for some reason. Including:
1.) The rise of the Black Arms (alien invasion) = Shadow the Hedgehog (2005 video game)
2.) Solaris Project explosion and Day of Disaster (Solaris/Iblis/Mephiles the Dark rampaging) = Sonic 2006
3.) Sticks the Badger paranoia of aliens, governments, whatever treating as dangerous threats = Sonic Boom
4.) Death of the Jackal Squad and the rise of Infinite = Sonic Forces
5.) Sonadow (Sonic and Shadow shipping)
6.) Shadow as an edge lord
7.) And much worse...
Mans writing a better Sonic story than Sega lmao
>.>
I can say I love Shadow both alive and dead as both routes can be great
looking forward to more, and glad I'm still subbed to this channel
I'm honestly surprised you're still sticking around hahaha
@@SurisVidya because your content on this channel is genuinely good.
I love seeing new what if-ers related to Sonic! Great job!
Thanks!!
I think that shadow would survive, but it would take a long time, like maybe shadow would go into silvers timeline and he will get released, but he will help silver look for iblis triger
Bringing Shadow the Ultimate Lifeform back to Sonic Heroes was our fault and a very big mistake. If Shadow never returned between Sonic Heroes - present in the first place, none of this would have ever happened.
And now everything is becoming from bad to worse for Shadow forever.
It's kinda weird to not see Rouge, but I don't know who she could be grouped with. Bark and Bean are fun, but they're usually set up with Nack/Fang. Mighty and Rey are a decent pair, but then they don't fit with the whole speed/power/flight dynamic. Hate to say it, but cutting Rouge was the right choice. How she shows up later.
Maybe Eggman would have found some of Shadow's dna and try to create a new rival for Sonic, better then Metal Sonic.
Ngl This story sounds waaay more interesting than what we actually got.
Thank you so much!
I was thinking about shadow not existing in 06 and I realised the story probably wouldn’t have happened Eggman would have had Mephiles and therefore silver wouldn’t have been told about sonic causing Iblis
Yeah, but Tails and Knuckles relied on the Super Emeralds to turn super as they both weren't experienced in chaos energy as Sonic and Shadow. The only thing that would happen is that knuckles and Tails would get some form of chaos energy but they wouldn't go full super.
10:38 that was perfectly timed
2:20
Why need Shadow’s data when Sonic has the same data and more. Minus the chaos powers. I still don’t like it how it’s so obscure that Sonic is the true Ultimate Lifeform only because the story never directly said that aside from Shadow. Even though the evidence is clearly there, but no, it’s never been fully confirmed outside of that one line from Final Hazard, most people will miss.
Hyper Sonic is the ultimate life form from the mural in Angel Island, not regular Sonic.
@@leonardoalvarenga7572 Well that’s Super Sonic, but just look at the story of SA2 with Sonic and Shadow’s relationship or the biolizard going to Shadow.
@@SaddieMoon I know about Shadow's line.
@@leonardoalvarenga7572 To sum it up, it’s more so Sonic’s personality and his powers that comes from it that makes him the Ultimate Lifeform.
And still, Super Sonic isn’t a different character then Sonic.
Sonic is not the ultimate life form. The Angel Island mural is a prophecy of Sonic fighting Eggman over the Master Emerald, there is nothing that suggests an ultimate life form.
Sonic also doesn’t meet Gerald’s definition of the ultimate life form. Before you say that Shadow called Sonic the ultimate life form in SA, every other game has all the characters, including Sonic and Shadow, treat Shadow as the ultimate life form. Ian Flynn, one of the writers of IDW and Sonic Frontiers even states that Shadow was probably joking about how similar he and Sonic are.
At best, Gerald may have based Shadow’s form on the Super Sonic mural, but that theory has gotten weaker over the years due to Super Sonic and Shadow no longer having matching quills and two worlds behind debunked. There is also several continuities where Shadow exists despite the Super Sonic mural not existing, such as Sonic X, Sonic Boom and the movies. It’s a theory that is spread around as fact, nothing more.
So actually they were planning to not have shadow in heroes the teams would be the same for TS and TC but TR would be amy cream and rouge there would be fang bean and bark would be a team and mighty ray and metal sonic would be a team but shadow was so popular they brought him back
Dude holy shit this was so captivating
Thank you!!!
I was just thinking about this scenario and found this video posted only a couple of days ago.
i have a slight idea as since shadow is really powerful he could survive the fall but and huge but he has FULL amnesia not the partial one where he starts to remember but has NO MEMORIES and cant seem to regain his lost ones but is effectively raised by another young girl that basically becomes his whole motivation and he wasn't present here as eggman never found him but the whole of shadow the hedgehog (the game) could be replaced with a story where the girl found a chaos emerald and gets kidnapped by eggman because of it and then shadow (or whatever his name would be in this scenario) would go all out trying to get her and when eggman realizes its shadow would make a slight attempt to get him his memories back but they dont come back and he stays as his new self but with the knowledge of his old name it kinda would keep the idea that after finishing his promise with maria shadow had nothing left for his caracter and it would stop him from being the edgelord he is today
I'm interested to see what would come of this by Sonic 06's events. Mephiles would have slid by completely unnoticed and Solaris would have been undefeated. And without Shadow bringing Silver back in time and helping him figure out that Sonic isn't his enemy, Silver would have remained an antagonist.
I can’t believe big the cat defeated omega of all people
Yes, but what if post-SA2 Shadow was a clone after all? There's no reason a plot can't be contrived that Shadow's data came from his remains, or spilled blood, or a sample collected sometime when Shadow was working for Eggman. Retconning Original Shadow doesn't necessarily deprive the plot of a Shadow.
I like how unhinged Knuckles looks in all the art here. :D
Smaco did a wonderful job
20:10
I honestly think SDW (game) would still in a way have a Shadow.
I mean the overall story is made of multiple endings & routes and Eggman did make a bunch of Shadow Androids. It would be cool if one of those androids went rouge and had a imposter syndrome story.
When you really think about it, we could have gotten an interesting story of Shadow learning who he was and question if he is the same person as before.
(I probably could've worded this a lot better)