I think it’s a gift from WALLACE. Since in the canon Vickers (the real one died in 2049) coincidence? I think not! Also Tyrell was already dead by then so it’s from Wallace. In BD 2049 we see Wallace who is still alive by the end doing something (cloning dead people).
@@reodimitri So I been thinking about this. It's a movie so some things are slowed down, it would seem, for the theatrics. But I live in the North of Wisconsin and have had to go into the woods and cut down trees for firewood my whole life until the last few years. Obviously trees can get pretty big. Once you make that cut and it starts going if you choose to move the wrong way you'd be fucked. Once it's over that tippy point and really starts falling you will not be able to correct in time. So I can kind of forgive that scene because in reality if they started running away from it and it fell towards them they'd be flattened before they could even turn around to look at it. I just think they went about it in a way that made it look stupider than it could have been.
She isn't an android. It was just the captain stating that she acts like and emotionless Beeotch. She is very human with the extra scenes that were removed.
A woman with deep-seated father issues, who drove herself to find cutthroat success in the corporate world in an effort to win her father's approval or affection, despite hating him for being distant.
@nate0 that was severa hundreds years later when they have developed the A. I. She was the new kind of breed of robots. There was no Android before here that was so humanlike. The androides displayed in móvils before that never show any profound feelings as a human could.
@nate0 ah yes I remember that now. But I still think he plays more robotic-like than ryder with his constraint and impassible constraint, even when he was trying to murder them he was in best case looking like an psycopath of an human trait. So my argument still bare some merit IMO.
I did have a thought that crossed my mind. What if Vickers wasn't a robot but a replicant? It might even support a few different instances for her perhaps odd behavior. She seems very uninterested in Weyland wanted to live longer and doing everything in his power to make it happen. It might present and conflict of interest for her if he was successful in that endeavor. She may not even be aware she is one. This is kind of a greater exploration of world building but still showing its all in the same universe. Building better worlds and all that jazz. Lol! Just a tangent theory to what you have here. Great video as always.
Since Scott had confirmed that Blade Runner and Alien share the same universe, even in my opinion it could very well be a replicant: maybe after losing a game of chess, Tyrell grants a Weyland to have a replica of his daughter either because the latter is terminally ill or in anticipation of her premature death
The ambiguity is what makes it interesting. I tend to believe she is a human, that has been trying to emulate the thing her father obviously loves, to gain his approval and affection.
Very plausible explanation, as certain real-life dysfunctional family dynamics are a lot like that. She could be emotionally repressed either due to bearing the brunt of her father's narcissism+God Complex(very common in narc families), or perhaps trying to be like as stone cold as David because it was clear that her father favored the droid over his own biological daughter, thus making David the proverbial 'Golden Child' of the family, hence her attempts to emulate him to win her father's approval.
I always liked the idea that vickers is a replicant and David is a robot. Would've been great to see another version of vickers show up after she was crushed by the alien ship.
I was thinking the same thing. She is more human than David but still synthetic. If Wayland was looking for a worthy successor for his company he might create an android and a replicant and play the two paradigms against each other.
Yes. It makes sense. Ridley Scott stated that Blade runner and Alien are in the same universe. Vickers is not a “Robot” she is a Replicant whereas David is a Robot. Remember there’s a difference between Replicants and “Robots”. Replicants have skin and flesh culture and are beings closely identical to humans.
The rare double-post here; When I heard the part about Weyland's daughter died and he built an android in her image, it brings to mind Descartes the French Philosopher who coined the term _Cogito ergo sum_ ( _I Think, therefore I am_ ) and the doll known as 'Francine'. -- He had a daughter who he loved very much named Francine Descartes, unfortunately at the age of five she died because of scarlet fever. While there's a bit of sayings and borderline myths surrounding it, René Descartes would get a doll - or rather a mechanical replica - which he named Francine and doted on, bringing it with him where ever he traveled. It goes without saying but I think you can see the connection here.
In my opinion she's human. The alternative may make for somewhat interesting theory-crafting, ultimately the thematic weight behind Vickers as the heir apparent of a dying king that has been moulded by circumstance and trauma into the armoured raw nerve that she was is more compelling and better supported by the text. The true-born heir of the heart being supplanted by an uncaring father by the artificial heir of the mind is the key understanding the intereactions within that triad. To know that her father's clinging to life has less to do with not seeing her as a suitable torch-bearer and more to do with that despite his achievements and intellect, he is as beholden to the march of time as everyone else, and beneath that air of cultivated superiority is ultimately the motivation of a scared child afraid of the unknown disgusts her in a way that reflects David's resentment of his creators and all the ways in which his hypothesised complexities governing our actions collapse when faced with the simple realities that drive us.
My theory is that Vickers used to be Peter Weyland's son, then had a gender change. That would explain why Peter Weyland referred to David as his son and you then saw the camera turn towards her
There is a 'Blink and you'll miss it moment' where she is standing like David, with the elbows slightly out. However, unlike David she shows emotions; especially "Fear" on multiple occasions. Also, regarding the fact she Kills; in Aliens Bishop stated the "Behavioural Inhibitors" with the Asimov Rules were New to Androids.
Bishop was made after these events and had programming to prevent incidents like Ash causing or allowing human deaths. David, Walter, and possibly Vickers do not have this programming.
Is it possible that Vickers is an android acting like a human and displaying human emotions because she has been programmed to display them? If she’s a robot but believes she is human then perhaps it’s in her programming to behave as she does. I thought it was a little odd that she was strong enough to push David up against the wall in the scene where she was asking him what her father had said, but if she is also an android then that makes sense.
The biggest thing that bothered me about the story in this film was the ENTIRE living Weyland family was on that ship. Who did a control freak like Peter Weyland trust to run the company while they where on that long trip ?? Was Vickers a COPY of his daughter ?
It would be interesting if he modeled David after what he thought Meredith would have looked like as a male...so he could imagine he had a son who was more seemingly docile than Meredith was.
The first "fully functional" pleasure-bot. A marvel of engineering and design. We had it all wrong...we werent going there to learn about the xenomorphs, she was sent to showcase humanity's capability, and a gift in good faith.
No - Running away from tall, falling objects by running in the same direction as said objects are falling is totally illogical - An android, would know this and run off to the side. That shows a state of panic, a human trate!
@ArtofLunatik Thanks, the word at the end of my comment is a combination of my bad spoiling and my phone with its Dan productive ticks! But thanks for your correction 🙂
On the flip side, if she was some early prototype of David, human emotions would have been programmed into her for sure. Even the David we see in Prometheus was discontinued for being "too human", so it would make sense for a prototype that came before him to be even more-so.
Argument aside, solid editing on this one. That opening was smooth. I appreciate the work put into this and all of your videos. And your narration is starting to replace my audiobooks for a preferred background for chores/going to sleep. Thanks!
She's an android alright. The complexity in her personality speaks to that; undeveloped and missing emotional context. Peter Wayland, lost a daughter and wanted a replica of her key attributes that questioned him - that's who Meredith was. Peter couldn't replicate the finer points of her personality, only the points he recalled, or noted. The aspects of what his arrogance and grief would allow. Peter's fear of death, to extend his life speaks to a fear of letting go. He couldn't. Loss was a bridge too far, especially if an android could serve a purpose. He was an original seeking an extension, through desperation. I believe when he lost his daughter, his need to push the boundaries of robotic development was extended, till he was reasonably satisfied. If she was indeed the heir to the Company, there's no way he'd place her on a mission where her life, his legacy would be in jeopardy. The ship would've stayed in orbit, monitoring with Meredith above, with Peter choosing to stay aloft or descend. Peter ensured that if they were lost etc, the Company would be well managed by a suitable replacement to continue his work. The lack of a support ship, speaks of a one-way mission; an all or nothing gambit. Peter knew this. As an extra, if Peter learned the secret to the Engineer's immortality, I believe his daughter in a medically induced stasis, was brought along for a possible revival.
I've always find it fascinating that in the world of Alien with so much technological advancement there isn't a firm grasp or even mention of human cloning.
I don't remember who said it, but one of my favorite quotes is 'the human body is a machine that a ghost can drive'. In a way we are all robots, being driven by our ghost, our programming.
It would make sense to have the head of the company be an ai of some sort, whether that was the plan of Wayland or that the AIs themselves have been slowly working their way into positions of power. It would certainly add nuaince if Wayland was very aware of what was coming and was parhaps unltimately a prisoner of his own creation, Vickers being his jailer. Meanwhile back on Sol Vickers installs herself as CEO. and buries the Prometheus project. I imagine she would have duplicated herself many times. I mean if you can't trust yourself...?
It think it’s simpler than that, I think she’s human and deeply hurting as she likely has her whole life, due to the lost emotional connection to her father and his to her. She likely respected him when she was younger, because she was more naive and really didn’t understand as well, how truly emotionally neglectful and uncaring he actually was towards her. Due to his wealth, she was very likely predominantly raised by nannies and bought off with nice things, which would have passed for love. The fact that David was his preferred child and he wasn’t even human says everything about the situation. The fact that he wanted extra life to carry on what he was doing with his work and not to spend time with her was probably the final kick in the teeth. The fact that because of his work, people actually questioned if Vickers was human or synthetic, or even that they had to ask at all, speaks volumes, a proud father wouldn’t leave such doubt amongst his friends and colleagues. Vickers cold, thick skinned outward appearance was the results of years of deep routed wounds and scars, buried deep within her. You could not possibly blame her, I felt sad that she died on LV223, she didn’t deserve that end, despite what you feel about her character.
@@gmv7121 Panic makes people lose sight of making good descisions. People make stupid descisions all the time due to a panic brain. That’s what fear does, makes you react animalistically and not quite think about what you’re doing, but that you need to run. In this case the flight reaction. I can’t say I’ve not done something stupid in a blur of panic.
If Vickers was an Android, then while not being aware of it, she would also need to be programmed to interpret things as if she was human. Like if she eats food, has a process to dispose of it, she would have to think the way her body process food works exactly like a human's, even if it doesn't happen that way. Think like, food waste is compressed into cubes and dropped into a toilet, her programming would have to inform her that it came out like any other human's. She might also be programmed to avoid situations that would expose her as an android. I think Star Trek TNG showed something like that with Data's preverbal mother when they discovered that she was in fact an android. Or basically, anything she does or anything that happens, she would have to believe is normal for a human, but would also have to look as human as possible to keep up the facade.
Killed Holloway to prevent a breach. Meaning Holloway was already lost to them and woukd offer further harm. So killing them isn't a violation of the laws. They're already dead... and by not stopping them is a risk to kill others. To NOT stop him was a violation.
9:19 "Weyland is no longer fit" .... Oops the screen text has a typo ... "fir" instead of "fit". Makes sense given how R is right next to T in the QWERTY keyboard layout.
I like this theory, great video as always. However, I don't think an android, no matter how much it is designed to replicate human emotion, personality and mannerisms, would be stupid enough to attempt to flee a giant, round object rolling in a straight line by also running directly in line in it's path and getting crushed to death rather than running diagonally out of it's path and easily avoiding it.
Well in Vickers defense, Shaw did mov out of the way and that ship came down right on to of her. However she was protected by the strongest stuff in the universe...plot armor
I have always believed that she was human Weyland in my opinion wanted a son but got a daughter so he created what he believed to be the perfect son David
Ridley Scott futzing around with the audience's heads, making them question who is and isn't a replic...errr...android? Say it ain't so! She's not a robot. She exhibits too many human mannerisms. Remember that Prometheus takes place BEFORE the creation of Ash and Bishop (and Call), so there's no way such hardware would that "refined", David (and Walter) notwithstanding. If anything, she's a clone of some sort, completely organic. Hell, maybe hot off of the Tyrell Corporation grill, if the two universes really are connected.
There is so much left on the table in this movie, it should have been a trilogy on its own. Too bad the world wasn't ready for it in 2012. I remember leaving the theater being blown away by it....I wanted to know more about the Engineers, sadly not many people seemed to agree. For the negativity Prometheus generated, it did put the Alien franchise back on the map. The Alien RPG and Isolation and now new comics are proof of it
Fr it’s a shame ridleys Scott’s creative vision for the franchise was compromised and he had to make Alien Covenant instead. I think the original plan was for Prometheus to become 4/5 movies
@@mekkarain7136 True, I remember being really excited for the original pitch for the Prometheus follow up( Alien : Paradise I think? ), but alas we got Covenant instead.
Maybe she's a combination of human and a android. A hybrid of sorts, born a human and had medical implants to see if weylens could live longer if the Prometheus trip was a failure.
I have had a question about Alien for years. Probably since I first saw it in the theater in 1979. Can the crew of the Nostromo walk back through to the refinery they are towing? Is there any pressurized sections with air that they could access? I’ve asked this technical question on many videos and chat rooms covering this movie but no one has ever been able to say what that refinery was like inside. It would make sense that they could and would need to for many operational reasons. Safety and security would require the ability of the crew to go inside what they are towing. When you look at the Nostromo and the huge size of just the tractor ship then see the absolute huge refinery behind it, it really gets my imagination going. Thanks especially if anyone knows this answer.
There was a background book that my brother had in the 90s. It was official at the time, though u don't know if that's still the case. The refinery was entirely automated and was not habitable. Narratively, I don't think having that truly vast extra space would have been good for the story
@@thegreenmanofnorwich I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question. I kinda thought that might be the case but no one had what you and your brother had. An actual reference book is the best evidence out there. I think when I was watching the movie I wondered if they could escape into the refinery and maybe call for help or whatever. I guess the emergency procedure could easily be to disengage from the refinery and move away from what the crisis is. I had that fleeting moment when I thought it could make a giant lifeboat lol. It makes sense now. Thanks.
It's so easy to overthink alien movies, that's why I like the franchise, but It's just a movie, if the crew would've been able to walk inside the refinery then we would have a different movie.
From all the stuff I have read, blueprints, the original story by Alen Dean Foster and other old, related diagrams and other tid bits in aliens the refinery was totally automated, they just set it down and commenced the programs in the computer systems from the Nostromo in orbit and there was no need of any hands on except for genral maintenance. I never saw any evidence of in that it had any access via the main ship but of course just as the automated air manufacture tower in Aliens who also was made same company the refinery had an inside backup control room so i would assume it most likely did as well????
I just assumed it was like the ship in Red Dwarf. With the majority of the ship being low level atmosphere and automated. Humans are there literally to monitor and off load and in put supply as needed. But that's actually a really good question.
Assuming the 2049 date of death is correct could it be that she a biological, human clone of his deceased Meridith? An effort to recreate his lost daughter that he now sees as inferior to David who is ageless, obedient and "perfect".
It's a good debate, a lot of people think she is, especially while watching for the first time. I don't think she is at all. I think the point of making her so cold and stern was to compare her to David, though he is programmed, shows more humanity and kindness than Vickers could. Though, David does prove to be quite inhumane, more calculating.
What if human Vickers secretly made a replicant Vickers to go off on the fools mission, with human Vickers realizing it would likely involve the loss of everyone and if not, if they had come back Human Vickers would have then shut down replicant Vickers, with no one any the wiser.
I worked with plenty Vickers in my life...This kind of robotic person is very common.... She's just an antisocial and sociopath person which makes sense, her father was greedy sociopath thirsty for more power, and i bet her childhood (If she had some) was horrible with a tyrannical father, he didn't give a shi** about her, however demanded to be equally ambicious and better, you can notice some insecurity and contained anger, and she's nonchalant and cold, while all androids in Alien universe is talkative, very curious, strangely gentle and have a strange kind of charisma.
Not sure about David being a 'more advanced model'- we see his inception with a more youthful Peter Weyland, maybe he (David) a test platform and Meredith is a refinement on this using the hypersleep dream imager to capture and model her memory.
If she was an android she was not so much programmed with AI, as AS (artificial stupidity). I love the way that people try and interpret bad writing and directing as deliberate art with subtle hidden meanings, when really it's just lazy writing.
@@leviacronym6770 Mate, semi-digested pabulum is smarter than that crew. That said, apparently she chose them.......again, good evidence that if she was an android, she was rigged with Artificial Stupidity. In the Wey-U universe, a lot of effort was made to have the androids behave in a deceptively human way. It would be counter-intuitive to have this one obviously a robot.
Where did she get the surname "Vickers"? Was she once married or did she retain her mother's last name? All those displays of "emotion" and "self-preservation" could be attributes programmed into her. The difference between David and Walter showed us that David was programmed to be "more humanlike" than Walter even though Walter was created at a later time. If this story continues we may find a semi-functional Vickers under the rubble.
I never doubted or questioned that she was human. David is the closest thing he'd have to a son, legacy, to carry on the last name, because he had a daughter.
Yes. My impressions on this issue is that Weyland is being sexist and arrogant. His biology failed to give him a proper heir (i.e. a son, not a daughter), so he decided to play God and create his own. He can 'do better' than God/fate/the universe (or whatever creator there be!) If she is an android, that whole thematic paradigm falls down. UNLESS... Vickers did die in 2049 and it took Weyland 7 or so years to make an android duplicate, hence this android version's birth date after the biological one's death date. Then Weyland is again playing God, but why he would do so if he already felt she was not a proper legacy/heir for him. And with her emotional reactions to certain events, her being anything other than human seems a stretch to me.
@@JakobNoone I've no idea how far up his own asshole Ridley is willing to dive but... what if it's just another facet of the creator vs. creation story. Engineers suicide one of their own on Earth and we happen. They find out, are disappointed, and then proceed with plans to end us. The plan fails ofc. Vickers is born and Weyland is disappointed. He creates David because he desires a son. He's all super focused on making David perfect and then he loses his only real child. She's a disappointment to him, but it's still his child. Sorta similar to Tywinn and Tyrion in Game of Thrones. He despises her personality and that she's a woman, but because she was the only real legacy he had, he recreated her. Flaws and all. Ego all the way down, because even Weyland's mistakes are better than anything anyone else can do. It ends with the Engineer (the ones that made us) clobbering Weyland to death, ripping Weyland's pet project's head off and crushing his last piece of legacy, Vickers, with his ship without even knowing it. Lets not forget the religious overtones with Weyland, David and Vickers being the trinity of his pride. He did see himself as a God. But that's just a theory... a shit theory!
@@TouchedProductions Ridley Scott is... a silly goose... I don't get why he wouldn't just answer straight questions and instead chooses to let people speculate, especially when it's not even that big of a deal or a major philosophical point in the series...
@@donaldlouie7354 He does love waxing on so yeah, it is weird. He went out of his way to overexplain his view on Blade Runner f.inst. I disagree with his version.
I think we all knew she was, considering the fact that when asked about there being an android onboard the Prometheus, Ridley Scott answered there may be 2. I think she was an android created to resemble a human as much as possible, and Weyland saw her as a failure.
12:15 To me this is one of the really scarey parts of Alien, an hour and 20 minutes in, when Parker knocks Ash's head off and all the tubing is exposed and starts spurting white goo. Because then the real horror is 'who is a robot and who is a human' PLUS all the deadly aliens. It sometimes feels like the decision to have him be an android was an afterthought because of all the scenes he's being very human, quirky, but human. He sleeps, snacks, pops his knuckles and jogs in place, chuckles, grins, murmers.
I think not. Like 'organic' Irene(Uma Thurman) from 'Gattaca' with genetically modified coworkers, Meredith has to compete with her synthetic 'brothers' for father's love
I apologise in advance for this comment as it probably has been discussed as nauseam. Hasnt Ridley said Alien and Bladerunner share the same universe? Does this make Ash, Bishop and David technically advanced replicants whereby Hyperdine had moved away from bio organics pioneered by Tyrell to purely synthetic beings?
“One should be considered human before considered robot,” not quite sure if you meant it, but what an excellent connection to Turing’s Imitation Game, aka, Bladerunner
No, is the answer. The whole reason she resented her Father was because he appreciated his “son” David, more than her. Also had she been an Android wouldn’t she have been more of an achievement because of how human she was? Why would Peter be obsessed with David if he had already achieved virtually perfect artificial life with Vickers? Makes no sense.
I vote that she is an android (but doesn't know it). Would be interesting to have a sequel where she finds herself greatly damaged after the alien ship partially crushed her. She then realizes that she is an android and the story continues...
For her to be an android and not know that would mean during her entire life she never cut herself or got any kind of injury that would make her bleed. I think the first time she cut herself and saw the white milky fluid instead of red blood she’d figure it out.
A better question is “Wouldn’t it have been kewl if John Hurt had played old man Weyland?” I certainly think so. No need for the pathetic old age makeup for Guy Pierce. Also it would have interesting implications for Kane in Alien. Was he related to Weyland secretly? Was that why he was obsessed with getting to the Derelict? Was he a Weyland clone? Anywho… Oh and what if Vickers was not an Android but a Replicant? Weyland was friends with Tyrell. Wasn’t he? I mean according to film’s expanded promotion materials that are not official but semi-canon… More human than human is our motto.
Why assume android, Tyrell Corporation was around and an identity imprint could have been done with the Replicant never actually knowing as well as Replicants without the limited life spans. It would explain some of her odder emotional reactions as well as keeping dates within workable time line as the original woman died and was later imprinted on a Replicant. The reason for using his foe's tech of Replicants rather than his own Synthetics is the imprinting on earlier Robots was questionable and the android lines a bit twitchy.
Its certainly possible. If anyone had the ability to replicate his dead daughter as an android it was Weyland. And Vickers certainly acted more like and android than David did most of the time. However while David was clearly dedicated to Weyland Vickers was the opposite, seeming to scorn the old man, so that part doesn't make a lot of sense. However like all good mysteries I suspect a definitive answer will ever be known.
Well, what's really the Question among many other Questions this movie puts forth is: What's so special about Emotions? What difference between a Human and a Robot? David (the robot) clearly has emotions, very evident from how the humans treat David (as he's a robot & therefore the idea that he's lesser than Human). How David feels, the need to prove himself to others as being Superior to his creator & other forms of Life. The antagonism between their relationship speaks Volume.. Emotions being a reactive action to the particularity of stimulus, which can easily be put to words, and by extension to circumstances, and therefore programmed into machine-language.. Soo, the Question isn't whether she's a human or robot? But a Higher Question is put forth to the viewer/us, I think, it constitutes an Introspective one! "What is a Human Being? What is this peculiar thing called Consciousness?" And all the consequential Implications that fall under this vast "umbrella" of 'Consciousness'.. role of Technology in relationship to organic Man etc etc etc.. It's Not the Answer but the Question that defines the Intelligence/progress of Mankind!
I know this's nothing more than beating down an already-dead horse, but I still like to think of her as an android. It just makes the story richer, and more... emotional. Thanks for the video.
Can't believe ot has been a decade since Prometheus came out. I remember getting caught up in all the hype around it, the idea of getting to delve into the lore and see the Engineers. Shame that the film didn't quite live up to expectations. Regarding Meredith Vickers being an Android, didn't get that vibe from her in the film... just a very calculating, cold, business Woman.
Actually if you think about it it can stand to humanize Peter Wayland a little bit more because if he was in grief over the death of his daughter you could also understand why he was so cold to this version of her because he knows deep down in his heart that it's not his daughter his daughter's been dead for a long long time and he's talking to a robot so if that is the case it actually helps to bring a little bit of humanity to Peter you know this is a man who is grieving the loss of his daughter and has never ever been able to move past it, and now he resents what he's had to create to try to feel that hole in his life
If I would be on the board, it would be a misterious effect between us - after that an eye contact and than a romantic kiss in the hallway with the gently hand on her cheek. She would beg for more attention before she would get a full me.
Not an android? Yet she was able to throw around David with ease. Compare that with the altercation between Ash and the sizeable Parker - who ended up using a metal pipe(?) just to get Ash off Ripley. If we were to take the date Vickers allegedly died as truth (2049?) then maybe Vickers was more cyborg than android - we don't know why the death occurred, that is assuming that the date is correct, plus Vickers might have been the catalyst for why Weyland's robotics were so successful? I may be missing vital lore here but just spitballing. Or maybe this is just more of Lindorff's piss poor mystery box BS?
I know I’m late to this party, but I think it could work with both factors at play: she is a robot, She was created in a moment of grief. as his grief passed, she became less important to him. His vanity and desire for immortality led him to create David. And with no underlying deception of his identity or status, it was easier for weyland to imprint on David. Meredith, not knowing she was a robot, behaved as any Spare to the Heir would. So, she can be both a tragic character in a very human situation, and also a sci-fi motif.
At 13:00 you question whether Bishop 2 is an Android ,... Morse proves this fact when he hits him with a metal pipe, which visibly leaves Bishops ear hanging off,.. Immediately after this, Morse get's shot in the legs, but not killed.
It's possible, in Alien Resurrection Annalise Call was an android designed by androids and in other alien comics, there was a whole squad of androids who didn't know they were androids.
I'm still baffled about Ridley's comment when asked about there being multiple robots "There may be two." But this is an amazing video, such a great insight into her character, I think it's all down to personal interpretation in the end.
I absolutely love Ridley's works, and I believe he is extremely talented and gifted, but much like his comments regarding Blade Runner's Deckard, he seems to be suggesting potentialities for Vickers' character which do not align with the rest of his narrative. Perhaps he enjoys stirring the pot and generating discussion and analysis within the fan communities, but if that's the case, I have to ask, why? He seems to relish the same mystery and ambiguity that we do, but the difference is that these characters are, for the most part, his own creations. It almost feels like these ideas weren't fully considered during the production, yet he can't help but suggest that they were.
@@HEARTS-OF-SPACE Maybe it was wishful thinking on his part, hoping that the studio wouldn't meddle with his ambitions, I'm not sure how much free reign he's given though. Or maybe as you mentioned he was stirring the pot for intrigues sake, which is a clever tactic. I like to have fun making up little theories though, perhaps that's what he likes too, to get you invested in such a way. But yeah Vickers is probably human and perhaps was so inclined to have her father's affection mimicked David and his qualities at certain points despite her contempt of him. It's all fun either way, I'm glad to chat to fans of the franchise, sorry for the essay haha. I still want him to make a whodunnit in space lol.
@@Fairly-odd-kel I completely agree with you, and I also enjoy discussing these things with fellow fans. Regardless of my frustrations with Ridley's motivations, part of me is actually glad he's so mysterious about it, because in the end, mystery and intrigue are definitely more fun. I would also love to see a whodunit in space! That's a great idea!
I forgot Idris Elba was in Prometheus - a fact indicating he was criminally underused in that movie. He’s great in everything. @11:00 That picture sums Lindelof up with one shit-eating smirk. He’s a complete fraud and a total hack.
I think she’s just bottling up her emotions, because she seems to also be broken from trauma/mistreatment (not in a machine broken way either) and while I hate the “School of running away from things” meme, it makes sense to me that she’s human since her panicked brain got in the way of a rational descision running away from the flimsy banana-shaped ship tumbling down. Lots of people that bottle up their emotions seem “cold” and “tough as nails” but in reality they’re holding back who they are and eventually they will snap in many different ways. Tears, anger, panic, illness etc. She just seems like she’s trying not to be vulnerable out of the fear of being hurt again. Her being accused of being a robot and immediate reaction to being offended by being called that makes sense for a human than an android. She’s seen as cold and emotionless so therefor they all think she’s a robot when I’m reality, she shows many instinctive human traits and emotions. David on the other hand is more morbidly curious and mainly Loyal, with some individualistic traits too making him break his programming in someway, but he still acts like he’s learning off the cuff instead of already knowing a lot of information.
Meredith an android? So little did the film engage me, I never even thought of it. As much as I`m invested in the `Lore`, Vickers was merely a minor foil to her father. It`s a shame, because Charlize could of been a key character in the film. Still, utterly human, not an android.
Vickers did drink a alcoholic beverage in the film, David however did not , he said it would just be a waste, why would vickers have a drink if she wasn’t human, but I still question if she is or isn’t, she could be a robot having a drink to further disguise herself??
I never even considered the possibility that Vickers might not be human, and in fact was unaware that there was any debate on the subject until seeing this video! So now I feel a bit like a fool and can't help but wonder, "Where have I been this whole time and why have I never heard this before?!" (laughs nervously) But seriously, this sort of thing is the precise reason I subscribe to this channel and enjoy these videos, because I otherwise would have no idea what goes on behind the scenes or with the fans with regard to these movies. So this was both extremely interesting and informative and clued me into a topic I would have missed out on. To answer your question, I have to agree that Vickers is most likely human based on my own viewing experience and the fact that it never occurred to me that she might be an android, though to be fair that could be attributed to me just not paying close enough attention to the nuances of the storytelling or her character to realize that it was ever debatable in the first place. But I find no fault in your analysis after having been made aware of the possibility, so I have that going for me. Thanks for bringing me up to speed with this enlightening video and stay safe out there!
I hope not due to my hopes she would be a central character to the prequel trilogy. They’ve done so much of the AI story line with David models and the preceding AI in other films. It was a lost potential for her character to have been ended in Prometheus. However considering no one except David returned for covenant perhaps it doesn’t matter anyway if she nor Shaw ever have a continued story in the alien franchise (as humans)
Vickers was a Replicant. A gift from Tyrell to a grieving father. Weyland however grew to favor his own creation: David.
I was gonna say that there was another choice and that her being a long-lived Replicant like Deckard....
I want more life, Father.
More Human than Human?
Right Vickers is to Weyland as Data was to Soong in star trek.
I think it’s a gift from WALLACE. Since in the canon Vickers (the real one died in 2049) coincidence? I think not! Also Tyrell was already dead by then so it’s from Wallace. In BD 2049 we see Wallace who is still alive by the end doing something (cloning dead people).
No way she's a robot, hell any AI would know to not run in a straight line.
Instinct overruling rational thought? Human!
Exactly! The end
10 years and we still talk about her running in a straight line
@@Malum09 Because it's a glaring stupidity that rivals that of DC's Martha fiasco.
Is the crashing juggernaut ship so large that it would seem difficult to choose the correct direction to run from the gigantic rolling ship ?
@@reodimitri So I been thinking about this. It's a movie so some things are slowed down, it would seem, for the theatrics. But I live in the North of Wisconsin and have had to go into the woods and cut down trees for firewood my whole life until the last few years. Obviously trees can get pretty big. Once you make that cut and it starts going if you choose to move the wrong way you'd be fucked. Once it's over that tippy point and really starts falling you will not be able to correct in time. So I can kind of forgive that scene because in reality if they started running away from it and it fell towards them they'd be flattened before they could even turn around to look at it. I just think they went about it in a way that made it look stupider than it could have been.
She isn't an android. It was just the captain stating that she acts like and emotionless Beeotch. She is very human with the extra scenes that were removed.
A woman with deep-seated father issues, who drove herself to find cutthroat success in the corporate world in an effort to win her father's approval or affection, despite hating him for being distant.
@nate0 that was severa hundreds years later when they have developed the A. I. She was the new kind of breed of robots. There was no Android before here that was so humanlike. The androides displayed in móvils before that never show any profound feelings as a human could.
@nate0 Wynonna Ryder plays an Auton, an android created by androids, she had to hide as a human because they were being hunted down
@nate0 ah yes I remember that now. But I still think he plays more robotic-like than ryder with his constraint and impassible constraint, even when he was trying to murder them he was in best case looking like an psycopath of an human trait. So my argument still bare some merit IMO.
@@scottcantdance804 yep thats a female.
I did have a thought that crossed my mind. What if Vickers wasn't a robot but a replicant? It might even support a few different instances for her perhaps odd behavior. She seems very uninterested in Weyland wanted to live longer and doing everything in his power to make it happen. It might present and conflict of interest for her if he was successful in that endeavor. She may not even be aware she is one. This is kind of a greater exploration of world building but still showing its all in the same universe. Building better worlds and all that jazz. Lol! Just a tangent theory to what you have here. Great video as always.
Since Scott had confirmed that Blade Runner and Alien share the same universe, even in my opinion it could very well be a replicant: maybe after losing a game of chess, Tyrell grants a Weyland to have a replica of his daughter either because the latter is terminally ill or in anticipation of her premature death
@@gnarlux well even a replicant could probably survive being squished by a giant donought/Horseshoe… maybe 🤔 😂
The ambiguity is what makes it interesting.
I tend to believe she is a human, that has been trying to emulate the thing her father obviously loves, to gain his approval and affection.
Very plausible explanation, as certain real-life dysfunctional family dynamics are a lot like that. She could be emotionally repressed either due to bearing the brunt of her father's narcissism+God Complex(very common in narc families), or perhaps trying to be like as stone cold as David because it was clear that her father favored the droid over his own biological daughter, thus making David the proverbial 'Golden Child' of the family, hence her attempts to emulate him to win her father's approval.
You *tend* to believe that? ... Or you believe it? Something like this is a 1 or a 0. That's like saying, "on average, I believe she's human" lol
I always liked the idea that vickers is a replicant and David is a robot. Would've been great to see another version of vickers show up after she was crushed by the alien ship.
I was thinking the same thing. She is more human than David but still synthetic. If Wayland was looking for a worthy successor for his company he might create an android and a replicant and play the two paradigms against each other.
@@flashkraft they should pick this up in a sequel... Robots or replicants... What is the future of humanity?
Robot I’m robot love?
Yes. It makes sense. Ridley Scott stated that Blade runner and Alien are in the same universe. Vickers is not a “Robot” she is a Replicant whereas David is a Robot.
Remember there’s a difference between Replicants and “Robots”. Replicants have skin and flesh culture and are beings closely identical to humans.
The rare double-post here;
When I heard the part about Weyland's daughter died and he built an android in her image, it brings to mind Descartes the French Philosopher who coined the term _Cogito ergo sum_ ( _I Think, therefore I am_ ) and the doll known as 'Francine'. -- He had a daughter who he loved very much named Francine Descartes, unfortunately at the age of five she died because of scarlet fever. While there's a bit of sayings and borderline myths surrounding it, René Descartes would get a doll - or rather a mechanical replica - which he named Francine and doted on, bringing it with him where ever he traveled.
It goes without saying but I think you can see the connection here.
In my opinion she's human. The alternative may make for somewhat interesting theory-crafting, ultimately the thematic weight behind Vickers as the heir apparent of a dying king that has been moulded by circumstance and trauma into the armoured raw nerve that she was is more compelling and better supported by the text. The true-born heir of the heart being supplanted by an uncaring father by the artificial heir of the mind is the key understanding the intereactions within that triad. To know that her father's clinging to life has less to do with not seeing her as a suitable torch-bearer and more to do with that despite his achievements and intellect, he is as beholden to the march of time as everyone else, and beneath that air of cultivated superiority is ultimately the motivation of a scared child afraid of the unknown disgusts her in a way that reflects David's resentment of his creators and all the ways in which his hypothesised complexities governing our actions collapse when faced with the simple realities that drive us.
Well said. Very well said.
Very astute!
My theory is that Vickers used to be Peter Weyland's son, then had a gender change. That would explain why Peter Weyland referred to David as his son and you then saw the camera turn towards her
There is a 'Blink and you'll miss it moment' where she is standing like David, with the elbows slightly out. However, unlike David she shows emotions; especially "Fear" on multiple occasions.
Also, regarding the fact she Kills; in Aliens Bishop stated the "Behavioural Inhibitors" with the Asimov Rules were New to Androids.
Bishop was made after these events and had programming to prevent incidents like Ash causing or allowing human deaths. David, Walter, and possibly Vickers do not have this programming.
@@ab5olut3zero95 Yes, that is what I said.
She is not android
Is it possible that Vickers is an android acting like a human and displaying human emotions because she has been programmed to display them? If she’s a robot but believes she is human then perhaps it’s in her programming to behave as she does. I thought it was a little odd that she was strong enough to push David up against the wall in the scene where she was asking him what her father had said, but if she is also an android then that makes sense.
The biggest thing that bothered me about the story in this film was the ENTIRE living Weyland family was on that ship. Who did a control freak like Peter Weyland trust to run the company while they where on that long trip ??
Was Vickers a COPY of his daughter ?
All I know is if I had a Vickers android, I’d never leave the house.
It would be interesting if he modeled David after what he thought Meredith would have looked like as a male...so he could imagine he had a son who was more seemingly docile than Meredith was.
The tension in that she could never measure up to David was great and fitted perfectly with the theme of creations/ creators
Vickers was a human 'ice queen' and that role was played well
The first "fully functional" pleasure-bot. A marvel of engineering and design. We had it all wrong...we werent going there to learn about the xenomorphs, she was sent to showcase humanity's capability, and a gift in good faith.
Hey Vickers, are you a robot? 'My room.. Ten minutes..'
No - Running away from tall, falling objects by running in the same direction as said objects are falling is totally illogical - An android, would know this and run off to the side. That shows a state of panic, a human trate!
*Trait
@ArtofLunatik
Thanks, the word at the end of my comment is a combination of my bad spoiling and my phone with its Dan productive ticks!
But thanks for your correction 🙂
@@miyahollands6136 np
On the flip side, if she was some early prototype of David, human emotions would have been programmed into her for sure. Even the David we see in Prometheus was discontinued for being "too human", so it would make sense for a prototype that came before him to be even more-so.
Like "Motoko Kusanagi" from "Ghost In The Shell," I believe "Vickers" is a cyborg. Her brain is alive in the robot shell.
A robot would of been smart enough to run perpendicular to the giant rolling wheel of death
Unless the programer was a graduate of the "Promethius School of Running Away from Things"
There it is
It's been very cathartic to realize I'm not the only person with this complaint.
Who says she was created to be smart ?
@@navylaks2 They programmed her to be human well... a little too well.
Argument aside, solid editing on this one. That opening was smooth. I appreciate the work put into this and all of your videos. And your narration is starting to replace my audiobooks for a preferred background for chores/going to sleep. Thanks!
I would love her to be an android only to see her return in sequels.
You telling me she dies in Prometheus? 😮
@@pluto9000 No, she graduated from the Prometheus school for running away from things
@@pluto9000 Yes, she was the founder of the _Prometheus School of Running Away from Things_
@Jooons kinda hard to return in sequels when your flatter than a pancake
@@Dash_Rendar2050 well she would just be a copy so technically not her.
Unless she uploaded.
She's an android alright. The complexity in her personality speaks to that; undeveloped and missing emotional context. Peter Wayland, lost a daughter and wanted a replica of her key attributes that questioned him - that's who Meredith was. Peter couldn't replicate the finer points of her personality, only the points he recalled, or noted. The aspects of what his arrogance and grief would allow.
Peter's fear of death, to extend his life speaks to a fear of letting go. He couldn't. Loss was a bridge too far, especially if an android could serve a purpose. He was an original seeking an extension, through desperation. I believe when he lost his daughter, his need to push the boundaries of robotic development was extended, till he was reasonably satisfied.
If she was indeed the heir to the Company, there's no way he'd place her on a mission where her life, his legacy would be in jeopardy. The ship would've stayed in orbit, monitoring with Meredith above, with Peter choosing to stay aloft or descend. Peter ensured that if they were lost etc, the Company would be well managed by a suitable replacement to continue his work. The lack of a support ship, speaks of a one-way mission; an all or nothing gambit. Peter knew this.
As an extra, if Peter learned the secret to the Engineer's immortality, I believe his daughter in a medically induced stasis, was brought along for a possible revival.
I've always find it fascinating that in the world of Alien with so much technological advancement there isn't a firm grasp or even mention of human cloning.
What about all those weird clones of Ripley, I can't remember which film it was in, Alien Resurrection ?
I don't remember who said it, but one of my favorite quotes is 'the human body is a machine that a ghost can drive'. In a way we are all robots, being driven by our ghost, our programming.
It would make sense to have the head of the company be an ai of some sort, whether that was the plan of Wayland or that the AIs themselves have been slowly working their way into positions of power. It would certainly add nuaince if Wayland was very aware of what was coming and was parhaps unltimately a prisoner of his own creation, Vickers being his jailer. Meanwhile back on Sol Vickers installs herself as CEO. and buries the Prometheus project. I imagine she would have duplicated herself many times. I mean if you can't trust yourself...?
It think it’s simpler than that, I think she’s human and deeply hurting as she likely has her whole life, due to the lost emotional connection to her father and his to her. She likely respected him when she was younger, because she was more naive and really didn’t understand as well, how truly emotionally neglectful and uncaring he actually was towards her. Due to his wealth, she was very likely predominantly raised by nannies and bought off with nice things, which would have passed for love. The fact that David was his preferred child and he wasn’t even human says everything about the situation. The fact that he wanted extra life to carry on what he was doing with his work and not to spend time with her was probably the final kick in the teeth. The fact that because of his work, people actually questioned if Vickers was human or synthetic, or even that they had to ask at all, speaks volumes, a proud father wouldn’t leave such doubt amongst his friends and colleagues. Vickers cold, thick skinned outward appearance was the results of years of deep routed wounds and scars, buried deep within her. You could not possibly blame her, I felt sad that she died on LV223, she didn’t deserve that end, despite what you feel about her character.
No because if she was she would have been smarter to run sideways instead of directly in the path that the ship was falling 😂🤣😅😆
@@gmv7121 Panic makes people lose sight of making good descisions. People make stupid descisions all the time due to a panic brain. That’s what fear does, makes you react animalistically and not quite think about what you’re doing, but that you need to run. In this case the flight reaction. I can’t say I’ve not done something stupid in a blur of panic.
If Vickers was an Android, then while not being aware of it, she would also need to be programmed to interpret things as if she was human. Like if she eats food, has a process to dispose of it, she would have to think the way her body process food works exactly like a human's, even if it doesn't happen that way. Think like, food waste is compressed into cubes and dropped into a toilet, her programming would have to inform her that it came out like any other human's. She might also be programmed to avoid situations that would expose her as an android. I think Star Trek TNG showed something like that with Data's preverbal mother when they discovered that she was in fact an android.
Or basically, anything she does or anything that happens, she would have to believe is normal for a human, but would also have to look as human as possible to keep up the facade.
Killed Holloway to prevent a breach. Meaning Holloway was already lost to them and woukd offer further harm.
So killing them isn't a violation of the laws.
They're already dead... and by not stopping them is a risk to kill others.
To NOT stop him was a violation.
The theory of her being trans is more substantiated than her being an android.
Or… The chat answered it correctly, it was just a different Vickers. Maybe her mother or grandmother
I'm no Alien lore master, but this crossed my mind when I saw!
Well don't forget Ridley Scott teased there maybe two in the movie given the fact we knew David was an Android way before the movie release.
@@TheMikethoth ahh I never knew this
Wasn't there something revealed when we saw the medical pod inside the ship was set for a man or something?
Well, _she_ can't be an android, by definition.
~pushes up glasses~
9:19 "Weyland is no longer fit" .... Oops the screen text has a typo ... "fir" instead of "fit". Makes sense given how R is right next to T in the QWERTY keyboard layout.
You make great stuff
Thank you for an excellent analysis.
I think it is time we called in a Blade Runner to settle this issue ...
I like this theory, great video as always. However, I don't think an android, no matter how much it is designed to replicate human emotion, personality and mannerisms, would be stupid enough to attempt to flee a giant, round object rolling in a straight line by also running directly in line in it's path and getting crushed to death rather than running diagonally out of it's path and easily avoiding it.
She was created with fear and irrational thought
Well in Vickers defense, Shaw did mov out of the way and that ship came down right on to of her. However she was protected by the strongest stuff in the universe...plot armor
that's a flaw in her calculations/physics of rolling massive objects... a machine after all?
I have always believed that she was human Weyland in my opinion wanted a son but got a daughter so he created what he believed to be the perfect son David
That's a hell of a run-on sentence you got there, bud. You uh, ever hear of this new thing called *"punctuation"?*
Ridley Scott futzing around with the audience's heads, making them question who is and isn't a replic...errr...android? Say it ain't so!
She's not a robot. She exhibits too many human mannerisms. Remember that Prometheus takes place BEFORE the creation of Ash and Bishop (and Call), so there's no way such hardware would that "refined", David (and Walter) notwithstanding.
If anything, she's a clone of some sort, completely organic. Hell, maybe hot off of the Tyrell Corporation grill, if the two universes really are connected.
There is so much left on the table in this movie, it should have been a trilogy on its own. Too bad the world wasn't ready for it in 2012. I remember leaving the theater being blown away by it....I wanted to know more about the Engineers, sadly not many people seemed to agree. For the negativity Prometheus generated, it did put the Alien franchise back on the map. The Alien RPG and Isolation and now new comics are proof of it
Fr it’s a shame ridleys Scott’s creative vision for the franchise was compromised and he had to make Alien Covenant instead. I think the original plan was for Prometheus to become 4/5 movies
@@mekkarain7136 very true. Imagine how deep the Alien universe would have been by now
@@mekkarain7136 True, I remember being really excited for the original pitch for the Prometheus follow up( Alien : Paradise I think? ), but alas we got Covenant instead.
YES !!!!!!!! Some Friday Night Alien Theory!
Excellent work! As always! I love the green overlays over her face! Inspiring!
Maybe she's a combination of human and a android. A hybrid of sorts, born a human and had medical implants to see if weylens could live longer if the Prometheus trip was a failure.
That would explain his dislike of her.
I have had a question about Alien for years. Probably since I first saw it in the theater in 1979. Can the crew of the Nostromo walk back through to the refinery they are towing? Is there any pressurized sections with air that they could access? I’ve asked this technical question on many videos and chat rooms covering this movie but no one has ever been able to say what that refinery was like inside. It would make sense that they could and would need to for many operational reasons. Safety and security would require the ability of the crew to go inside what they are towing. When you look at the Nostromo and the huge size of just the tractor ship then see the absolute huge refinery behind it, it really gets my imagination going. Thanks especially if anyone knows this answer.
There was a background book that my brother had in the 90s. It was official at the time, though u don't know if that's still the case. The refinery was entirely automated and was not habitable. Narratively, I don't think having that truly vast extra space would have been good for the story
@@thegreenmanofnorwich I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question. I kinda thought that might be the case but no one had what you and your brother had. An actual reference book is the best evidence out there. I think when I was watching the movie I wondered if they could escape into the refinery and maybe call for help or whatever. I guess the emergency procedure could easily be to disengage from the refinery and move away from what the crisis is. I had that fleeting moment when I thought it could make a giant lifeboat lol. It makes sense now. Thanks.
It's so easy to overthink alien movies, that's why I like the franchise, but It's just a movie, if the crew would've been able to walk inside the refinery then we would have a different movie.
From all the stuff I have read, blueprints, the original story by Alen Dean Foster and other old, related diagrams and other tid bits in aliens the refinery was totally automated, they just set it down and commenced the programs in the computer systems from the Nostromo in orbit and there was no need of any hands on except for genral maintenance. I never saw any evidence of in that it had any access via the main ship but of course just as the automated air manufacture tower in Aliens who also was made same company the refinery had an inside backup control room so i would assume it most likely did as well????
I just assumed it was like the ship in Red Dwarf. With the majority of the ship being low level atmosphere and automated. Humans are there literally to monitor and off load and in put supply as needed.
But that's actually a really good question.
Assuming the 2049 date of death is correct could it be that she a biological, human clone of his deceased Meridith? An effort to recreate his lost daughter that he now sees as inferior to David who is ageless, obedient and "perfect".
It's a good debate, a lot of people think she is, especially while watching for the first time.
I don't think she is at all. I think the point of making her so cold and stern was to compare her to David, though he is programmed, shows more humanity and kindness than Vickers could. Though, David does prove to be quite inhumane, more calculating.
What if human Vickers secretly made a replicant Vickers to go off on the fools mission, with human Vickers realizing it would likely involve the loss of everyone and if not, if they had come back Human Vickers would have then shut down replicant Vickers, with no one any the wiser.
I worked with plenty Vickers in my life...This kind of robotic person is very common....
She's just an antisocial and sociopath person which makes sense, her father was greedy sociopath thirsty for more power, and i bet her childhood (If she had some) was horrible with a tyrannical father, he didn't give a shi** about her, however demanded to be equally ambicious and better, you can notice some insecurity and contained anger, and she's nonchalant and cold, while all androids in Alien universe is talkative, very curious, strangely gentle and have a strange kind of charisma.
I think Ridley Scott had originally planned for her to be an android. Even Charlize addressed this in an interview.
This channel is awesome !! I listen while I work.
06:31 the look of horror on her face was in post production she was really scared for the stunt man setting him on fire.... hence her expression ....
Not sure about David being a 'more advanced model'- we see his inception with a more youthful Peter Weyland, maybe he (David) a test platform and Meredith is a refinement on this using the hypersleep dream imager to capture and model her memory.
can you do video about the whole history of Peter Weyland? Only about him, not about Weyland - Yutani corp
"If you cant be with the one you love, honey, love the one you're with." -Stephen Stills
If she was an android she was not so much programmed with AI, as AS (artificial stupidity). I love the way that people try and interpret bad writing and directing as deliberate art with subtle hidden meanings, when really it's just lazy writing.
The sad part was she was still smarter than the scientists and crew.
@@leviacronym6770 Mate, semi-digested pabulum is smarter than that crew. That said, apparently she chose them.......again, good evidence that if she was an android, she was rigged with Artificial Stupidity.
In the Wey-U universe, a lot of effort was made to have the androids behave in a deceptively human way. It would be counter-intuitive to have this one obviously a robot.
@@MrScrofulous True. I hate those movies
Where did she get the surname "Vickers"? Was she once married or did she retain her mother's last name? All those displays of "emotion" and "self-preservation" could be attributes programmed into her.
The difference between David and Walter showed us that David was programmed to be "more humanlike" than Walter even though Walter was created at a later time.
If this story continues we may find a semi-functional Vickers under the rubble.
I never doubted or questioned that she was human. David is the closest thing he'd have to a son, legacy, to carry on the last name, because he had a daughter.
Yes. My impressions on this issue is that Weyland is being sexist and arrogant. His biology failed to give him a proper heir (i.e. a son, not a daughter), so he decided to play God and create his own. He can 'do better' than God/fate/the universe (or whatever creator there be!) If she is an android, that whole thematic paradigm falls down.
UNLESS... Vickers did die in 2049 and it took Weyland 7 or so years to make an android duplicate, hence this android version's birth date after the biological one's death date. Then Weyland is again playing God, but why he would do so if he already felt she was not a proper legacy/heir for him.
And with her emotional reactions to certain events, her being anything other than human seems a stretch to me.
@@JakobNoone I've no idea how far up his own asshole Ridley is willing to dive but... what if it's just another facet of the creator vs. creation story.
Engineers suicide one of their own on Earth and we happen. They find out, are disappointed, and then proceed with plans to end us. The plan fails ofc.
Vickers is born and Weyland is disappointed. He creates David because he desires a son. He's all super focused on making David perfect and then he loses his only real child.
She's a disappointment to him, but it's still his child. Sorta similar to Tywinn and Tyrion in Game of Thrones. He despises her personality and that she's a woman, but because she was the only real legacy he had, he recreated her. Flaws and all. Ego all the way down, because even Weyland's mistakes are better than anything anyone else can do.
It ends with the Engineer (the ones that made us) clobbering Weyland to death, ripping Weyland's pet project's head off and crushing his last piece of legacy, Vickers, with his ship without even knowing it. Lets not forget the religious overtones with Weyland, David and Vickers being the trinity of his pride. He did see himself as a God.
But that's just a theory... a shit theory!
@@JakobNoone agree he's sexist and arrogant, this can be seen with his entitlement to meet his maker
@@TouchedProductions Ridley Scott is... a silly goose... I don't get why he wouldn't just answer straight questions and instead chooses to let people speculate, especially when it's not even that big of a deal or a major philosophical point in the series...
@@donaldlouie7354 He does love waxing on so yeah, it is weird. He went out of his way to overexplain his view on Blade Runner f.inst. I disagree with his version.
I think we all knew she was, considering the fact that when asked about there being an android onboard the Prometheus, Ridley Scott answered there may be 2.
I think she was an android created to resemble a human as much as possible, and Weyland saw her as a failure.
12:15
To me this is one of the really scarey parts of Alien, an hour and 20 minutes in, when Parker knocks Ash's head off and all the tubing is exposed and starts spurting white goo.
Because then the real horror is 'who is a robot and who is a human' PLUS all the deadly aliens.
It sometimes feels like the decision to have him be an android was an afterthought because of all the scenes he's being very human, quirky, but human. He sleeps, snacks, pops his knuckles and jogs in place, chuckles, grins, murmers.
I think not. Like 'organic' Irene(Uma Thurman) from 'Gattaca' with genetically modified coworkers, Meredith has to compete with her synthetic 'brothers' for father's love
The moment when the captain asks her flat out made my day because I was wondering exactly the same thing 😎👍very nice writing
I apologise in advance for this comment as it probably has been discussed as nauseam. Hasnt Ridley said Alien and Bladerunner share the same universe? Does this make Ash, Bishop and David technically advanced replicants whereby Hyperdine had moved away from bio organics pioneered by Tyrell to purely synthetic beings?
I love how well articulared the narrator sounds! Is a true appreciation! I wish there was a way for me to become that.
Except he pronounces the writer Jon Spaihts names as "Spathis", instead of the correct "Spates".
Well, for starters, you could try spell check.
"articulared" lol
@@soulbot119 You silly person.
“One should be considered human before considered robot,” not quite sure if you meant it, but what an excellent connection to Turing’s Imitation Game, aka, Bladerunner
No, is the answer. The whole reason she resented her Father was because he appreciated his “son” David, more than her.
Also had she been an Android wouldn’t she have been more of an achievement because of how human she was? Why would Peter be obsessed with David if he had already achieved virtually perfect artificial life with Vickers? Makes no sense.
she was too "human"
That plus she cried out twice like a human in distress, and she shagged the captain.
@@wesleywarsmith1113 "if you can't be, .....with the one you love, ...."
@Bella Donna I don’t buy that at all. The film makes no attempt to run that as a sub plot.
I vote that she is an android (but doesn't know it). Would be interesting to have a sequel where she finds herself greatly damaged after the alien ship partially crushed her. She then realizes that she is an android and the story continues...
For her to be an android and not know that would mean during her entire life she never cut herself or got any kind of injury that would make her bleed. I think the first time she cut herself and saw the white milky fluid instead of red blood she’d figure it out.
A better question is “Wouldn’t it have been kewl if John Hurt had played old man Weyland?” I certainly think so. No need for the pathetic old age makeup for Guy Pierce. Also it would have interesting implications for Kane in Alien. Was he related to Weyland secretly? Was that why he was obsessed with getting to the Derelict? Was he a Weyland clone? Anywho…
Oh and what if Vickers was not an Android but a Replicant? Weyland was friends with Tyrell. Wasn’t he? I mean according to film’s expanded promotion materials that are not official but semi-canon…
More human than human is our motto.
Ridley in an interview before the movie came out said there might be 2 androids. He then later confirmed Vickers was human
Loving the videos dude
Why assume android, Tyrell Corporation was around and an identity imprint could have been done with the Replicant never actually knowing as well as Replicants without the limited life spans. It would explain some of her odder emotional reactions as well as keeping dates within workable time line as the original woman died and was later imprinted on a Replicant. The reason for using his foe's tech of Replicants rather than his own Synthetics is the imprinting on earlier Robots was questionable and the android lines a bit twitchy.
"2049"? Quite a convenient date seeing as the Alien films and Bladerunner are theorised to exist in the same universe :)
Real nice vid! Thought provoking. Good stuff
a theory I just thought of is. Is there 2 Vickers? 1 human back on Earth and 1 an android on the Prometheus?
Its certainly possible. If anyone had the ability to replicate his dead daughter as an android it was Weyland. And Vickers certainly acted more like and android than David did most of the time. However while David was clearly dedicated to Weyland Vickers was the opposite, seeming to scorn the old man, so that part doesn't make a lot of sense. However like all good mysteries I suspect a definitive answer will ever be known.
Well, what's really the Question among many other Questions this movie puts forth is: What's so special about Emotions? What difference between a Human and a Robot?
David (the robot) clearly has emotions, very evident from how the humans treat David (as he's a robot & therefore the idea that he's lesser than Human). How David feels, the need to prove himself to others as being Superior to his creator & other forms of Life. The antagonism between their relationship speaks Volume..
Emotions being a reactive action to the particularity of stimulus, which can easily be put to words, and by extension to circumstances, and therefore programmed into machine-language..
Soo, the Question isn't whether she's a human or robot? But a Higher Question is put forth to the viewer/us, I think, it constitutes an Introspective one!
"What is a Human Being? What is this peculiar thing called Consciousness?" And all the consequential Implications that fall under this vast "umbrella" of 'Consciousness'.. role of Technology in relationship to organic Man etc etc etc..
It's Not the Answer but the Question that defines the Intelligence/progress of Mankind!
I know this's nothing more than beating down an already-dead horse, but I still like to think of her as an android. It just makes the story richer, and more... emotional. Thanks for the video.
Can't believe ot has been a decade since Prometheus came out. I remember getting caught up in all the hype around it, the idea of getting to delve into the lore and see the Engineers.
Shame that the film didn't quite live up to expectations.
Regarding Meredith Vickers being an Android, didn't get that vibe from her in the film... just a very calculating, cold, business Woman.
I remember watching a trailer for the trailer. Lol
Interesting vid
For an android, she couldn't calculate making a 90 degree turn away from a rolling "donut" ship from crushing her.
It could be as simple as her being named after a female relative.
Actually if you think about it it can stand to humanize Peter Wayland a little bit more because if he was in grief over the death of his daughter you could also understand why he was so cold to this version of her because he knows deep down in his heart that it's not his daughter his daughter's been dead for a long long time and he's talking to a robot so if that is the case it actually helps to bring a little bit of humanity to Peter you know this is a man who is grieving the loss of his daughter and has never ever been able to move past it, and now he resents what he's had to create to try to feel that hole in his life
If I would be on the board, it would be a misterious effect between us - after that an eye contact and than a romantic kiss in the hallway with the gently hand on her cheek. She would beg for more attention before she would get a full me.
Not an android? Yet she was able to throw around David with ease.
Compare that with the altercation between Ash and the sizeable Parker - who ended up using a metal pipe(?) just to get Ash off Ripley.
If we were to take the date Vickers allegedly died as truth (2049?) then maybe Vickers was more cyborg than android - we don't know why the death occurred, that is assuming that the date is correct, plus Vickers might have been the catalyst for why Weyland's robotics were so successful? I may be missing vital lore here but just spitballing.
Or maybe this is just more of Lindorff's piss poor mystery box BS?
Is it possible to buy such an android ?
I think, if Vickers was an android I believe that It would not have died when the ship fell down and would have found a way of not died by crushing.
Prometheus wasn't as bad a movie as people make it sound.
I love all movies except aliens 2 by cameron. Romulus is also good one
I know I’m late to this party, but I think it could work with both factors at play: she is a robot, She was created in a moment of grief. as his grief passed, she became less important to him. His vanity and desire for immortality led him to create David. And with no underlying deception of his identity or status, it was easier for weyland to imprint on David. Meredith, not knowing she was a robot, behaved as any Spare to the Heir would. So, she can be both a tragic character in a very human situation, and also a sci-fi motif.
At 13:00 you question whether Bishop 2 is an Android ,... Morse proves this fact when he hits him with a metal pipe, which visibly leaves Bishops ear hanging off,.. Immediately after this, Morse get's shot in the legs, but not killed.
Mind freaking blown.... Great video!
It's possible, in Alien Resurrection Annalise Call was an android designed by androids and in other alien comics, there was a whole squad of androids who didn't know they were androids.
I'm still baffled about Ridley's comment when asked about there being multiple robots "There may be two."
But this is an amazing video, such a great insight into her character, I think it's all down to personal interpretation in the end.
I absolutely love Ridley's works, and I believe he is extremely talented and gifted, but much like his comments regarding Blade Runner's Deckard, he seems to be suggesting potentialities for Vickers' character which do not align with the rest of his narrative.
Perhaps he enjoys stirring the pot and generating discussion and analysis within the fan communities, but if that's the case, I have to ask, why? He seems to relish the same mystery and ambiguity that we do, but the difference is that these characters are, for the most part, his own creations. It almost feels like these ideas weren't fully considered during the production, yet he can't help but suggest that they were.
@@HEARTS-OF-SPACE Maybe it was wishful thinking on his part, hoping that the studio wouldn't meddle with his ambitions, I'm not sure how much free reign he's given though. Or maybe as you mentioned he was stirring the pot for intrigues sake, which is a clever tactic.
I like to have fun making up little theories though, perhaps that's what he likes too, to get you invested in such a way.
But yeah Vickers is probably human and perhaps was so inclined to have her father's affection mimicked David and his qualities at certain points despite her contempt of him.
It's all fun either way, I'm glad to chat to fans of the franchise, sorry for the essay haha.
I still want him to make a whodunnit in space lol.
@@Fairly-odd-kel I completely agree with you, and I also enjoy discussing these things with fellow fans. Regardless of my frustrations with Ridley's motivations, part of me is actually glad he's so mysterious about it, because in the end, mystery and intrigue are definitely more fun. I would also love to see a whodunit in space! That's a great idea!
I forgot Idris Elba was in Prometheus - a fact indicating he was criminally underused in that movie. He’s great in everything. @11:00 That picture sums Lindelof up with one shit-eating smirk. He’s a complete fraud and a total hack.
Meredith is the Helen Ripley's substitute for her rational decisions & mind asset. The most intelligent caracther in Prometheus movie
I think she’s just bottling up her emotions, because she seems to also be broken from trauma/mistreatment (not in a machine broken way either) and while I hate the “School of running away from things” meme, it makes sense to me that she’s human since her panicked brain got in the way of a rational descision running away from the flimsy banana-shaped ship tumbling down.
Lots of people that bottle up their emotions seem “cold” and “tough as nails” but in reality they’re holding back who they are and eventually they will snap in many different ways. Tears, anger, panic, illness etc. She just seems like she’s trying not to be vulnerable out of the fear of being hurt again.
Her being accused of being a robot and immediate reaction to being offended by being called that makes sense for a human than an android. She’s seen as cold and emotionless so therefor they all think she’s a robot when I’m reality, she shows many instinctive human traits and emotions. David on the other hand is more morbidly curious and mainly
Loyal, with some individualistic traits too making him break his programming in someway, but he still acts like he’s learning off the cuff instead of already knowing a lot of information.
If Vickers was a robot, then her father forgot the most important input:
How to run away from things!
Meredith an android? So little did the film engage me, I never even thought of it. As much as I`m invested in the `Lore`, Vickers was merely a minor foil to her father. It`s a shame, because Charlize could of been a key character in the film. Still, utterly human, not an android.
Vickers did drink a alcoholic beverage in the film, David however did not , he said it would just be a waste, why would vickers have a drink if she wasn’t human, but I still question if she is or isn’t, she could be a robot having a drink to further disguise herself??
I never even considered the possibility that Vickers might not be human, and in fact was unaware that there was any debate on the subject until seeing this video! So now I feel a bit like a fool and can't help but wonder, "Where have I been this whole time and why have I never heard this before?!" (laughs nervously)
But seriously, this sort of thing is the precise reason I subscribe to this channel and enjoy these videos, because I otherwise would have no idea what goes on behind the scenes or with the fans with regard to these movies. So this was both extremely interesting and informative and clued me into a topic I would have missed out on. To answer your question, I have to agree that Vickers is most likely human based on my own viewing experience and the fact that it never occurred to me that she might be an android, though to be fair that could be attributed to me just not paying close enough attention to the nuances of the storytelling or her character to realize that it was ever debatable in the first place. But I find no fault in your analysis after having been made aware of the possibility, so I have that going for me.
Thanks for bringing me up to speed with this enlightening video and stay safe out there!
I hope not due to my hopes she would be a central character to the prequel trilogy. They’ve done so much of the AI story line with David models and the preceding AI in other films. It was a lost potential for her character to have been ended in Prometheus. However considering no one except David returned for covenant perhaps it doesn’t matter anyway if she nor Shaw ever have a continued story in the alien franchise (as humans)