The Sig FCU didn’t go out of commission for needing a cleaning and the FCU is absolutely simple to work on. Did you buy this gun used? Did someone who didn’t know what they were doing do something to that FCU? It sounds like a damaged trigger return spring which takes literally 5 seconds to replace. I bet the trigger was removed by someone who didn’t know what they were doing and tweaked the trigger return spring. It wasn’t cleaning, I own multiple P320s that are used in 3 Gun, in my classes and carried it as a duty gun.
I did but the gun used. So I don't really have any idea what the history of this gun was, but the range failure and resulting attempts by me to get it running were eye openers. Unfortunately, this was the platform I shot best as well. I didn't make the decision lightly.
John, I have a lot of hard rounds through my Xfive’s but not quite to those types of numbers. I wish, that is some serious lead downrange! They are extremely reliable guns…
WD40 is a gunk collector and most armorers would never use it on a quality fire arm, not even a BB gun. I wonder what other maintenance practices are in play. And about the accidental discharge issues the 320 from an engineering point of view with the FCU upgrades CAN NOT fire unless parts are broken, or the trigger is pulled AND the slide is in full lock up and seated. If the 320 goes off the slide was fully seated AND the trigger was pulled OR IT CAN NOT FIRE (in normal working condition). The military and LE have used so many 320's that clearly operator error is in play with the current bad press.
Interesting comment. I went with WD 40 because that was all that was available at the time. Got it home, soaked it in CLP, problem remained. Soaked it in Frog Lube solvent, problem remained. Frog Lube or CLP is all that I use. The issue was a Known issue that seemingly only occurs with the curved trigger FCU. I hated to part with with my 320s. I could draw a face on a target with them.Not a spring, and not the Icarus precision module. FCU froze. period.
*Lock N Load Radio 1* I don't care what gun it is or who makes it, if you've lost confidence in its ability to get the job done, get rid of it. Had a Kimber if it wasn't dead clean it would malfunction . Thank-you sir for taking the time to tell us your story. God Bless.
Probably bent the trigger return spring while you were installing it in the Icarus module. It’s a pretty easy fix and SigGuy on TH-cam has an install video. It sucks that the spring is as vulnerable as it is, but at least a spare, and a better one at that, can be obtained for less than $10.
I changed the trigger shoe on my P320 XCompact a couple of years ago and the trigger return spring is a little bugger for sure. The P320 problems are well documented and I understand why guys would not buy one and why they might sell one after ownership. Better to get rid of a car or a gun a year too early rather than a year too late.
100% this. He either bent the trigger return spring or the after market grip module is interfering with the spring. Has nothing to do with cleaning. I've installed brand new springs from some companies that would do that immediately even when there not bent. They were just out of spec. The factory springs (that are not bent or have interference with the aftermarket grip module) or armory craft springs always work great. Could be grip module that's out of spec though. It's a stretch to blame the pistol for bad reliability when it stopped working when you added aftermarket parts. Why not blame the parts instead of the pistol that was working before you installed the parts. Anyways, most likely you just screwed the spring up. It happens if your not aware of it.
Did Sig say exactly what they did in the "factory service"? Did they completely disassemble the FCU and clean each part? Just put the whole thing in an ultrasonic cleaner for a bit and then re-lube? Replace any springs or other parts? I'm curious what actually had to be done, and what regular folks can't do at home. $144 sounds like either a few hours of labor, or an hour of labor plus some parts and shipping.
The new m18 seems so good but I hear bad reviews of firing pin going out well to early and getting lawsuits put on sig but how does the military find this model so reliable?
@@BillFrady I agree with you 100% however I have no clue how they didn’t catch the problem with the m18 during its safety protocol before it entered the military I find some of the incidents as a hoax or irresponsible training but other incidents sounding reasonable .
I really try to become a fan boy of the P320 line. However, it’s not for me. I tried. Today I’m getting rid of my ZEV Z320 XCarry. Having said that, there is one P320 that I love and that is the XFive Legion. Fantastic gun and zero problems. I look forward to coming along on your journey to finding a new carry a gun. Thank you for the video.
If you still trust Sig, I would definitely take a look at the P365 XL for a carry gun. I have Glocks, HK’s, CZ’s and Shadow Sytems, and none of them carry the way it does with similar capacity (12/15). Not too small, and carry’s just right.
I’m curious what cleaning solutions and lubricants you use, how heavy the use was, and what the cleaning regimen was like. FCU disassembly and reassembly can be done by the user. Sig would probably say it voids your warranty but tearing down a Glock to its components would do the same thing
@@Robbie6298 Yes. After 144 bucks and 3 weeks at Sig it worked like new. So it was not the Icarus frame. It was an odd coincidence. But it would have happened, regardless.
@@Robbie6298 I didn't reunite it with the original frame. Tell your friend that all trouble shooting was down prior to the call to Sig. It was not the frame. FCU was removed and still had a restricted trigger when it was free of any frame. So yes to any further questions. It was Sigs fault, and they expressed this to me, which is why I sent it to them.It is a man made machine and these fall all the time. So any other questions this friend may have, there is no scenario in this instance where the frame caused the mishap.
I know I'm with this but I also tried a M18, it just would not work for me. My main carry is a LTT 92 carry and at night a light goes on it and it is my night stand gun.
@@E_ROE No, but according to Sig it was not the module. In fact it was sent to Sig in the Icarus module and the service was done on the FCU. This FCU has the curved trigger and according to Sig what happened is a known but rare issue. If it had been in the Sig module it still would have failed, when it failed. Not a module or cleaning issue. It is a design flaw.
The P320 has its controversies. I've noticed at the range I work at the M17/M18 and the 'curved' trigger ones have issues. The X-Series don't have these issues. Why? I can't tell you. I have a few X-Series versions and had no issues. Due to all the controversy I only use my X-Series at the range.
Thanks for the video - just wondering, how many rounds did you put through it since the last time you cleaned it - that before it jammed on you? Also, is WD-40 the right lubricant to use on a firearm?
No it isn't. Not at all.I used WD 40 because that was the only thing present. and it had been cleaned prior to the range trip where it froze. After it came back from Sig it was sold immediately.
I think the point is being missed. The point is that he's having this issue in that configuration that may be present in others so it has to be figured out why so... Not the fact that you have nine of the same gun and it's working fine...
@@Division_Agent_ it’s in every video when someone has a problematic pistol, Fanboys gotta say the have tens of thousands of rounds without a single malfunction through all their other pistols of the same manufacturer. I had a p320 that wouldn’t cycle sig ammo. It refused, I mean the slide completely locked up. Worked fine with other ammo, had gunsmith check the pistol and it’s completely fine. Go figure 🤷♂️
I love Icarus but could it be the grip module? A few months ago I had about 10 sigs and the only malfunctions I’ve ever had out of any of them were when I was breaking in the PMM comp on my 365. That being said I’ve been slowly moving away from sig as I’m really enjoying the 2011 platform more these days.
@@BillFrady I’m with you on the 2011. They’re perfection for me. Can’t wait to see staccatos new pistol announced tomorrow. Pretty sure it’s a sub 4” slimmer double stack
Have about two thousand rounds through my M-17/320. Minimum of cleaning, not a single problem out of it, and it's got an aftermarket Wilson Combat grip frame. I have heard of other complaints about the Icarus frames causing issues. Have a partner with a factory AXG aluminum frame, and he said he has had zero problems with his after about 2500 rounds. I would look at the frame, or put it back in the factory polymer frame, and see if the problem repeats itself. Could just have been an out of spec fire control group that got through QC too, it happens to all manufacturers here and there. I have friends still active duty that are approaching 8K-9K on their M-17's and M-18's with little or no issues so far.
@@BillFrady Like I said, out of spec FCG most likely. Surprised SIG worked on it with it in the Icarus frame though, they used to be a pain in the ass on servicing anything that wasn't strictly SIG. Good on them for changing policy.
@@283blood Originally I asked to send in the FCU only. I was told it had to whole gun. then I was told I had to put in back in original configuration. I balked at that string that if it wouldn't run as it is what is the point?
My only concern is the football shaped end of the guide rod. I was leaving the range,so I attempted to empty a live round, and the slide wouldn't move. I had to fire the gun to get the round out of the chamber. Makes me want to sell it.
@@BillFrady Try inserting the guide rod just a little bit crooked, you cannot put it back together. I couldn't extract a live round manually because the guide rod seized up. My Glocks and m&p and CZ don't have that football shaped guide rod.
I’m not really a gun guy and I’m new to it all but I have two p320s and I haven’t had any issues as of yet. I have an xcompact and a M18 both with Wilson Combat grip modules.
I’m sorry to hear that this happened. Of course no one would be able to predict such an unfortunate happening. It is fortunate, however, that you have so many other options that it is a struggle to choose. 😎
The P320 has been my edc for some time. It's ease of maintenance and reliability have been great. It's an extremely proven pistol in the area of reliability. I maintain it by shooting the hell out of it. 😬 I quit counting at 5000 rounds and that's been a couple of years ago. I practice and shoot often. The P320 compact with the Wilson Combat grip module, and Ameri-glo night sights my set-up. Carried every day. Don't leave home without it!!
@@omarcaban9917 I see you didn't get an answer. I still carry mine every day and shoot it a lot. If you want to know more about the 320, here ya go. th-cam.com/video/VmwpkJuIR00/w-d-xo.html
Did you consider the possibility that the beautiful Icarus precision aircraft grade aluminum lower may have been the problem and try putting the factory lower back on?
Yes. Tried that. Also tried 3 other FCUs in the Icarus Precision lower. They did work. Not my first rodeo on the troubleshooting part. I tried everything in the cleaning bag of tricks. Because this was my chosen carry weapon. Then I called Sig. And it was a rare but known problem. And then I dumped every Sig I owned, despite the likelihood of it recurring being low.
@@BillFrady Seems like a bit of an overreaction to me. I've owned 3 p320s and never had an issue, but you have to do what you think is best for you. I'm not married to Sig, in fact my most recent acquisition and current carry gun is the Walther PDP. It comes optics ready and has a great trigger. You should check it out.
I have the Sig AXG Scorpion and I have about 600 rounds through it with no issues. I too said I’d never sell it b/c I love it. I don’t carry it but do use it for home defense. I carry the P365 XL Spectre with about 600 rounds and no issues…
The issue is not the FCU (confirmed by you, as you have stated that it has been functional without issue for some time in the OE Grip module). What you are experiencing is something called "tolerance stacking". This is likely/anticipated behavior when you introduced a new item into a system. It happens "in-house" with less of an occurrence (hence warranty periods) and tends to be more likely to buyers, when accessories are added/modifications made are from outside of any manufacturer's internal QC verified tolerances. This is why accessory vendors tend to have the disclaimer "have done by a gunsmith" or.. "fitment may be required". Note that polymer grip modules flex with temperature differentials, so the FCU"s and grip's tolerances are designed around each other. The Aluminum module doesn't have as much flex to it, so if you have negative tolerance stacking (in this instance, the tolerances of the module is on the small side and tolerance on the FCU is on the large side), it increased rubbing/friction of the moving components by compressing it beyond their required clearances. In you instance, so much so, that it resulted in the binding of your trigger bar, where your trigger press is strong enough to overcome the friction but the return spring isn't). The solution is to not interfere with the "proven" FCU and simply increase the tolerance/clearance inside the receiving area of grip module. The common signs of increased contact, will be bruising of the finish to both the trigger bar and grip module. If WD40 helped.. it means that it's highly likely minimal material removal will solve it. (basically a 5-10min job with some sand paper, just to remove the anodizing in the area of the trigger bar). Sig was charging $1 for the sandpaper, $3 for the labor and $140 for knowing how to rectify.
Ok, So Mojo, that is one of the most logical explanations I have heard, but there is one mitigating factor. I tried a grand total of 3 other FCU units with it after this malfunction. 1 on the range, 2 here at home. My 1st thought was exactly what you are describing. But those other FCUs had no problem in this frame. So, what is the likelihood that only one FCU would be built correctly, and yet bind up due to not enough space to move in a frame?
@@BillFrady what I'm saying is that items are manufactured with a +/- tolerance. From batch to batch, there will be similarities between them as well as variances from things like, punch & die sharpness, press tool poundage ratings, conveyor speed, etc, etc, etc. Ware takes place after every strike of the punch, movement of a piston, etc and tools are typically & routinely sharpened, aligned etc.. but minor variances in the raw materials also attribute/account for a tool prematurely reaching it's fatigue limit prior to the scheduled service. This is typically accounted for in the service scheduling (to an anticipated extent) but it's not perfect. This is why there is something called "line checks", where random items are pulled and checked to the spec tolerance. Even if it is not "spot on" but within the pre-determined acceptable tolerance, the part will move on to the next station/assembly/etc. When this happens to a few of the components that make up a larger assembles part, like an FCU, engine cams, etc.. and the item is tested at quality control, it's still possible to meet the tolerance of the operational spec of the intended assembled item.. and once it does, it "passes" QC. Now if you alter the QC passed, completely assembled item and have no was of calibrating or checking the tolerances, to the manufacturer's standard.. then your are just "hoping that it will work". Internally, in manufacturing, I've seen entire batches of products dumped because a tool wore beyond acceptable tolerance and the individual item was passed, it wasn't properly functional in final assembly.. and it was cheaper to trash them than to repair them. So as I said previously, it's way more common than the average person would realize, especially in larger mass-production environments. Customized items, though not immune, are typically to a higher tolerance and output quality because of the higher level of human involvement and focus on singularities.. eg. Abbot/Stacatto, McLaren. So by the above, if your FCU was perfectly functional in the grip module it came in. the FCU would not be deemed as the issue. And due to some of the tighter safety tolerances to things like the striker engagement face and safeties, I'd recommend leaving the FCU alone (especially after the accounts of un-engaged discharges). If you send it to SIG and they interfere with/adjust/modify the FCU, the liability would lay with them if (God forbid) any accidents happen in the future. If the FUC is also problematic in other SIG grip modules, then it's likely the FCU's tolerance is closer to the "limit" than would be preferred. And again, with this, if you send it to SIG, they should be professional enough to replace it with one in a more optimal tolerance spec. Again, I'm not a gunsmith, but with a machining background and then in industrial manufacturing QA/QC, as well as servicing my own guns/mechanical items.. yeah, I'm not as easily tempted to install with aftermarket parts, unless I know that either I have the time to dedicate to fitment (2 seconds to 2 months), or just send it back to a certified operation to have it done.
@@I_ammm_mojojojo Once again, logic is all present here. So this is what Sig did do. Sig did pull the FCU apart in a way as to facilitate its total cleaning beyond anything I could do here(I would have liked to have seen that). They then reassembled it and put it back in the Icarus Precision module and tested it. The gun was sent in its entirety, but not with the stock frame. It was sent with the Icarus Precision frame. Because that is the way this particular gun was going to exist if I continued to own it. So the emphasis was to make it work. There were no marks or scratches inside the frame due to contact prior to my sending it to Sig. I am not a gunsmith either, but I do know a few trouble shooting steps, and I also know when the issue exceeds my knowledge I pass it to those who speacilize in those repairs. Bottom line is that in a range test, the trigger failed to reset after the first round. It failed due to a buildup around the moving parts of the trigger. It failed despite being cleaned by me after the 1st range test. It failed prior to any steps I took. The mechanics were and are inconsequential to me. It wasn't due to the frame. It is a known issue to Sig, although apparently very rare. This is the platform I shot the best straight out of the box, it is my preferred grip angle. I was very heavily invested in it(owned 3 different P320s). And now it is gone, because it has a known flaw.
I have been eyeballing the X-Five Legion for over a year and haven't purchased one because of the potential P320 issues that have been reported out there. I was actually going today to finally get one......will continue to hold off now. This is most disappointing to hear from an extremely trusted source and reviewer. Can't see putting a P320 of any kind into my arsenal right now. As always, sincerely appreciate all you do for the gun community. Keep up the outstanding work and content. Thank you!!!
Every Handgun I own is modified to some degree. In this case the Icarus Precision module incorporates the Staccato Trifecta grip angle. This gun is very accurate, at least for me. The angle is significant. But based on this result, the P320 is out of my picture unless some noted redesign simplifies the FCU enough for field expediency.
Sorry about your disappointment with your P320. The P320 FCU maintenance should be simple enough enough; remove, clean, lube, and reinstall. I do wonder if the could have been clearance issues with an after market frame. Also it would have been interesting to know what Sig said the problem was.
I bought my P320 right before drop gate. After maybe 500rds it started to jam and stove pipe, I didn't want to send it back to Sig again so I sold it and bought an M&P. Every now and then I think about trying one again, but after this video maybe I should wait a while longer.
That is not for me to say. It would be refreshing if Sig would get out in front of the rumors and accusations. The silence just makes the stuff bigger and seem more plausible.
The short time I owned my Sig P320 "Carry" (red box special/certified pre-owned) I loved it. I genuinely thought it would be my new carry/HD handgun. At the time, my primary range ammunition was Wolf steel case 115gr ball ammo. It had the trigger upgrade from the factory, the gun appeared new in box. Initially the gun ran fine with whatever ammo I put through it. I never changed any internal components. After approximately 500-700 rounds of mixed steel and brass case ammo, I began to have FTE with steel case. I tore the handgun down, cleaned the chamber, striker channel, extractor, etc. To my surprise, it wasn't all that dirty (as I had been routinely cleaning the handgun). The handgun would function fine any brass case, but began to fail harder and harder with steel case ammo. I contacted SIG about this issue. Their response was that #1 they did not recommend using any steel case ammo. #2 Their handguns are manufactured with very tight chamber tolerances, which may have been why in my case the handgun was malfunctioning. As a result, I decided to sell the handgun. I want all of my handguns to function reliably with steel case, or any other in spec factory ammunition I can put in it. Over the years, I have owned, Glocks, M&Ps, and XDs, none of which have ever choked on steel case ammunition (of which I have shot thousands of rounds). You be the judge.
@@BillFrady No disrespect intended but the Sig FCU is by far the easiest gun for me to clean. I actually pop the FCU out and spray it down with Ballistol then shake and wipe off excess. You can actually put the FCU in the dishwasher and it won’t hurt it.
@@Kaleo_vibez yessir. I had 4 P320s when this occurred. Never had it happen to any of them. This was a weird anomaly. And I hated getting rid of them because it was perfect. I could draw a face on a target. It was one of the harder decisions I have made.
I do not know if you mentioned this in a more recent video, but what are you carrying now? My father and I are looking to get new CCWs and were looking at the 365 but have heard rust issues and apparently something about a law suit over it going off. I have the M18 now and like it, but as a smaller guy, can't conceal it. Great vid as always, sucks that the P320 did that on you.
I'm having the same issue since putting the Icarus grip module on. I know that it doesn't have to do with it being dirty though, it's barely been shot and in addition I have cleaned it. A lot of people recommended changing the trigger return spring, for $9 I'm going to start with that before sending it to sig.
Nope. It was meant to Sig with the Icarus precision lower attached, and the FCU was reworked. It was due to a known issue in the curved trigger FCUs and instead of replacing it with a Straight trigger FCU, they simply worked the one that has the known issue. And I had to pay for it.
I say it could be a simple fix. All my SIGs don't have stock triggers, I clean and maintain my FCUs all the time. Zero issues. You might just need a new spring for the trigger bar on the FCU
@@BillFrady ok so the spring just popped out of place. No reason to make a video feeling heartbroken in my honest opinion. SIG is an awesome company and I love them and their firearms 💯🥶🖤🤍🤍💙
@@ssj4shinyslowbro877 or I can do what I have done and move on, agreed? Whether it was a simple spring malfunction or excessive build up it doesn’t happen on any other guns I own. Hence it is gone.
@@BillFrady there are 4” and 3.5 versions. Very similar to PDP Compact model with slightly redesigned grip and a touch smoother action(easier to rack the slide). Slimmer, but ver ergonomic grip, is the biggest difference. Still 15+1…3.5” model is pretty much ideal carry gun if you don’t want to go “micro” sizes etc.
Sorry to hear, I’ve owned a M17 for a few years, never have any issues, updated the trigger, added a red dot, Wilson Combat grip, love the gun , feeds anything
This gun isn't shooting by itself. I bought my P320 like 5 days ago and I deemed this gun unsafe before I even learned it was apparently shooting by itself. Not because of any defect or anything but because of that trigger. There's no safeties and that P320 has the shortest and lightest trigger pull of all my guns. That's what I think and I came to that conclusion before I ever knew of the self firing issue. People aren't taking that trigger seriously. That's my take on it. This gun cannot fire without that trigger being squeezed and the margin of error is very short on a P320.
I feel like you’re searching for something that you’ve already found. You have Staccatos to carry and you have that sweet G45 (i think) Combat Master. To me, adding another gun to the mix is over complicating things unnecessarily. I carry a full size 1911 most of the time. When I’m not carrying that, it’s a Langdon Tactical P30L with the extra light LEM package. I shoot both to the degree that my Langdon Tactical G45 sits in the safe. Also have a P365 X Macro for the rare occasion when I need a smaller, slimmer profile. That’s it. Take it for what it’s worth. It’s just one nobody’s opinion. And no, I don’t think you overreacted in rehoming the gun. If I have a gun that’s meant to be carried and I can’t trust it, it goes to a new home. Look forward to future updates to find out what you decide.
I get it! Been there done that with a host of "things". For a CCW, if you don't trust it, it needs to go regardless because that gremlin in your mind can't exist in the event of a self defense moment. An aside, for me....I do put aftermarket parts on some weapons but like anything...a truck, a motorcycle, etc...when we deviate from the engineered/tested standard, we take risk. I stopped modding anything on a CCW bar sights or a red dot.
@@BillFrady I had a H&K P7M10 I carried for a bit in the early 90's as a off duty weapon. Went to shoot it one day and I got light primer strikes. Sent it to H&K and they said a unburnt particle of gunpowder had slowed the firing pin enough to not detonate the primer. Like you I lost trust in the weapon, because it just had to work when I needed it. I too got rid of it, and now they are worth north of 5K if you can find one.
@@BillFrady I have the PDP full size 4 inch. Love it. The upgraded trigger from Walther is the best trigger I've ever felt on a striker fired pistol. Glock is always good to go. Learned to love it as the tool it is. Trust both with my life.
I work at a gun range and shop and yes I’ve seen that twice before in Sigs but never Glock and I’m a Sig guy btw. You didn’t go into detail in the issue but It just sounds like a broken spring. We have a gunsmith and he handles those issues so I’m not sure how easy or hard it is but if you have a local gunsmith it sounds like he could fix it for less than $144.
Well, I don't know anyone around here that works on this particular gun. It would have been nice to have it happen at your range. If I fully understood what happened(still don't) I might have not made the choice I made.
Sig P320 is one a few firearms I won't buy, not only because of the past drop test issues but some have reported the firearm firing just from shaking it.
I dropped them the 1st time around, because of the "fix". the slide would slightly rise when I pulled the trigger. This time I thought everything was good to go, sadly it isn't.
@@BillFrady recent issues with PDs and my trigger failed to reset several times and I am very anal with cleaning of my firearms and I was surprised by those issues long story short I loved it but it had to go I no longer trust it maybe one day when sig gets the kinks out I’ll grab one back up but for now back to my trusty G19 for EDC
Just read your reply to me about the M18, thanks again. Still was still pondering what to do about getting one, after seeing this video I’ll just look around for something else and keep carrying my 365 and the xl, they work. Just subscribed, enjoy your video’s, God bless!!
I won't change the trigger ,our any part I know it will change the reliability. Don't change anything unless you are a specialist. I read that alot of guns fail due to upgrade in major league that have to go back and put the original part back in for it to run properly. Bad part they didn't train with it like that 😕. I wonted a gun with out changing it . That would function flawlessly that hold 20+ round optic ready with rails.
Something smilar happened to me last year wit my P320-C, beautful pistol, but FWIK absolutely unreliable. Maybe I was only unlucky and got a lemon. Anyway I wasn't very happy and sold it myself. I went back to my BERETTA 92 and GLOCK 17 that I've been using wihout a single issue since mid Nineties.
Ive carried the P320 for several years with no problems. I truly believe the incidents that have happened are user error even though they may not realize it. Ill continue to carry it.
This example is why I just don't trust Sig at all. They do not stand by their guns. They charge a super premium and then blame the customer when their guns do not perform or do not hold up as they claim .
Glad too hear that. I had three so far and had issues with all them. And that trigger is garbage. So far besides sig365/320. I love the pdp and Masada.
@@heaterfamily The trigger is double action, way safer than the single action of a P320 (never seen the 509 go off by itself) but because of that it’s a little heavier. Also the 509 has two “trigger bars” instead of one, evening out the stress so it doesn’t break after 10k rounds like P320’s. The things an absolute tank, 2k rounds without a single malfunction on my personal one. 500 rounds through my M18 commemorative with 4 light primer strikes. Every range I’ve went to that had a 509 for rent each had at least 20k rounds with no “Reported!” malfunctions. None could say the same for the P320. Idk why you’d keep buying a pistol that gave you problems, owning 3 with all them giving you problems sounds kinda fishy.
@@KennyRodgers930 Got one when they first came out then got the tactical then I got the one with the comp not very fishy at all didn’t like any of them sold them all
@@heaterfamily So you got one when they first came out… They only shipped with the 24# spring meant for Duty/+P ammunition, since they’re first and foremost Duty/Military grade firearms, so you’d definitely have a break-in period if you’re shooting regular 115gr ammo. Same thing with the Tac but they included a regular 17# spring in a separate bag. Then FN realized the average Civilian knows nothing about springs and what ammunition to use with what so now they all come with the 17# spring installed, if you are shooting higher pressure ammo you can buy the 24# spring aftermarket. Same thing with the CC Comp, or any brand new comped double stack pistol, you can’t shoot 115gr reliably without breaking it in first. When you add a comp you severely decrease the amount of gas used to cycle the slide, which will definitely cause malfunctions using lower powered ammo. In order to break in the springs you have to shoot at LEAST 200rds of 124gr, then it should run like a sewing machine.
I have a couple very nice p320s, an axg scorpion with an x300 and Rmr, and a flush comp tungsten grip build with an x300 and an SRO. Needless to say I have some coin in p320s, so I’m not a hater. That said I absolutely don’t trust them for carry. All down to the striker safety block, it’s easily the worst in the industry. Look at the glocks (solid block of metal) vp9 (strange levered block of metal) even the p365 (solid block of metal). The p320s striker safety is a dinky little 1mm thick piece of metal, that sits on a ledge about 1mm tall. With a very light spring.
Sigh... I hate when bad guns happen to good people. My P229 is still so good, I honestly don't think I would ever need another Sig. Except I swear the Macro keeps winking at me whenever I walk by the display case, but I digress...
I've got 13k on my 320 with no issues. But hearing about other Sig P320 issues worried me. I'd look at the new Springfield Echelon. My 4 " Mod 2 has about 25k rds. And no issues. Hellcat and xds no issues. I think Springfelield is going to emerge as among the most reliable guns. For good reason IMHO. Im sure you replaced the Sig a while ago. Still, the Echolon seems to be a good option.
When i say i love the facetious behavior in this video your like my white grandpa in my own eyes i love watching your videos they crack me up been following for some time now im saddened that Sig feels the way that they feel however i do enjoy mine and pray this never happens to me i have an apex trigger unit in mine and a +20 armory craft trigger spring supper fast resets to get the next shots off but as i digress from the laughter U give me maybe you can revisit them at a later date and give it another try possibly a full build with a custom FCU prayers brother 🙏🏾
I have very seriously entertained the whole Apex trigger thing. I love the P320 form factor. That may well be something I look at later. I truly appreciate the fact that you get that I am not trying to take myself too seriously. Just trying to have a little fun, shoot some guns, add to my skillset a bit. Dont get too sad at the Sig thing. I am running Taran Tactical pistols now and have a box load of Staccatos coming. All good in my world. as far as being your white grandpa, our haircuts do favor, don't they?
I get a lot of lip for having a Springfield, but truth is I have had no issues with my Elite, runs anything including steel case ammo. Got a Sig 320 nothing but issues, failures to feed, magazine issues and just weird malfunctions, like all the time. Couldn't get it to 300 rounds and had at least 10 issues. Glad I sold it and got a VP9, best decision I made. Maybe they should go back to making them in Germany again instead of the US.
Well, that didn't fill me with confidence. I recently bought my first Sig, a P320 Compact Nitron in .45ACP. I'm using it for EDC. I've only shot about 60 rounds through it so far, but I sure don't want to have to worry about it failing me when I need it. I've always carried Glock and Taurus with no worries. Time will tell.
@@mikialthorvarsson4569 I do not know, but some here have told me that the curved trigger variant has more issues. Im not sure what they are referencing
I bought one about 6 months ago and trust me so far its been a good pistol for the range lol so far buttttt!! I will not take it to a gun fight dont trust it enough. Sorry but you failed big time sig , i been in law enforcement 15 years i know little about guns but sig saur p320 m 18 i dont recomend it . Thank for the review stay safe brother .
Yes but the very nature of the design beckons at modification. And I didn’t modify the mechanics at all. Just the frame, which people replace all the time. This happened because the FCU failed. Period. Not due to modifications.
Obviously, I was not nearly clear enough in this video. I used WD40 because that was all that was available. My usual preferred solvents are either CLP or Froglube.
Sorry this happened too you ! You certainly not alone , I could write a book on p320 malfunctioning issues. I am done all together with sig polymer guns permanently. Now with the sig p series all metal guns flawless operation mostly ammo related issues . P series all metal guns in da and sa included legion and non legion pistol’s. Love your work and honestly your usually spot on , stay the course my friend that gun will miraculously appear and happy times will come agin . K
Thanx Coyote Clone. I am finding some of the comments on this one to be puzzling. It is almost like some are trying to find a reason beyond the failure of a component,(the FCU), and find some reason this was a maintenence issue. Most instructors I know stay away from the P320, like they know something I don't . They shoot thousands of rounds every month. I know some that have tried it and then gone back to Glock or something else. In any event, I reminded of a conversation I had with James Yeager a few years back. He told me that a gun was a tool. Set it up the way you want it to be and just run it. When it breaks fix it. If it fails to do the job, replace it. No emotion involved.
@@BillFrady James Yeager taught me how to grip a pistol (in an instructional video). My first pistol was a glock 19 because of him. RIP James. I bought a Staccato P because of a Bob Keller class, 10-8 performance and You're videos. My good friend has a few Sig's and his Legion is a laser beam. I've had Fords and Chevys and had problems with both. Fanatical brand loyalty is horseshit. I want cool stuff but it better work and if doesn't, it needs to be known so it can be fixed. At the end of the day it's the Indian, not the arrow, but the damn arrowhead better be tied on right.
Here is some excellent information on the 320's FCU. th-cam.com/video/VmwpkJuIR00/w-d-xo.html I carry a P-320 Compact in .45 ACP every day. I shoot it a bunch, carry it a bunch, and mine, an admitted sample size of ONE, has been flawless. Yours is also a sample size of ONE, by the way. Every machine can have issues. Give up and throw in the towel if ya want...
Let me be clear on one thing. If Sig gets out front of this, I am back in. I love the platform. As it is, these FCUs remind me of the Android operating system. You can be in the room with 15 Android phones running 8 different versions of the software. I did not make the decision lightly on this. I went all in and built my dream gun, only to get the marquee feature of the platform to fail on the range. I totally get your experience on the gun. I had 4 when I sold them all and I fully believe one was extremely good. But this platform should be more consistent and Sig should own what is happening.
@@BillFrady You do you. I'm no Sig fan-boy, I only own one Sig pistol, I prefer 1911s and DA/SA metal CZs. However, this Sig just has something about it... it's been 100% reliable and I shoot it well. It feels great in hand, it points naturally, the SigLite night-sights are nice, the trigger is great, and to me it's a soft shooting .45. Sure, it's pretty big for a concealed carry pistol, but I'm not concerned about deep concealment. Even though I have some nice carry guns, that damned 320 is my go-to.
I can go on line and find someone who has or had a issue, with any brand of gun, just name the brand. I have a p320xc, it's my 4th p320. I have not had any kind of serious problems or concerns with any of them. Some reputable gun review channel's that have tested the sig p320 series is. Military arms channel, tfb tv, mr guns and gear.
And your point is what? That I should overlook a guns issues or have confidence in gun because TH-cam channels have reviewed them? I didn't make this to try to change anybodies mind. I made this to point something out. One little industry secret is that all review or T&E guns are massaged and gone over to ensure all the production hiccups are eradicated.I never watch another channels review of anything I am going to look at and /or film.
You don't watch other gun reviewer's on utube? In your video you talk about watching a guy competing with a sig p320 and how he complained that the gun fired as he was attempting to holster. That one seemed to make a impression on you . If you've lost confidence in a brand, then you're wise not to carry that gun, I agree. As for guns being cherry picked for influential gun reviewers ? I don't doubt it . But several longtime, and very reputable gun reviewer's that are not sponsored by gun maker's, use their own money to buy firearms they test and they are not cherry picked and gone over by the maker. You made a assumption about the p320, and that's fine. Thing is, you have a utube channel. Therefore, you open yourself up to public criticism. And that's what I'm doing, criticizing your p320 experience. I do enjoy your channel and will look forward to your next review. Good health to you sir !
@@michaelphillips5786 the video I referred to was linked from some site, although it was a TH-cam video. I actually misspoke about reviewers. I do like the QVO Channel. He is like Joe Friday in his reviews, just the facts.I have no illusions about the 320. I shoot it best. 9.99999 times out of 10, if I pick one up it runs like a Rolex. That's why it was a heart breaker. That pistol was excellent in every way. Until that odd, rare, but not unheard of failure. I hate that it happened.
@@BillFrady I understand 👍 like I said, I admire the channel and the radio show, and especially like it when you sit in for Terra .. All the best, sir...
All I can say is Wow, what a disappointment, even more so what the long-term usage is for our Military, I think our Military operates in dirty environments? I just started with H&K P30s with Safeties, still exploring but they have been impressive so far. I do like Staccatos and am curious how their new one that was just released will do. Good luck in your quest.
Thanks for your input. To be sure I have some decent alternatives here to give a try and a few I have not tried yet. I liked the P320 platform a great deal. But ok, it didn't meet one of my criteria. So lets move on.
@@BillFrady yes, now they just spontaneously pop off without being dropped. That is way better. I would never carry one. Too much history of failure. I'd cary a Ruger P series before...
You got rid of a gun that stopped working when you dropped your fcu into an aftermarket frame. Good lord did you put your fcu back into a stock frame and verify whether or not that solved the issue? If it needed a cleaning than the issue would have carried over to a stock frame if you checked. It’s not likely at all that it needed cleaning lol it’s probable that there was tolerance issues with your fcu and the Icarus frame. If you paid close enough attention to your trigger parts or the inside of the frame, you probably would have been able to see where parts were rubbing together to tightly and causing the trigger to stick. You should have contacted Icarus about their frame instead of getting ahold of sig. smh
I have been watching your videos for some time and it’s been a constant search for a carry gun for you. Stop jumping around and just pick one and force yourself to shoot it and carry it for a year. Content like this influences viewers to just keep going out and buying new guns that are essentially the same as all the other guns they already own, when the influence should be to use one gun and train and get good with it. That can’t happen if your constantly changing guns. Buy ammo and training, not repeat gun purchases. Your sig was fine. You mixed aftermarket parts and were unlucky they didn’t work correctly but the stock gun was fine. Imagine where you could be as a shooter if you would have been shooting the same gun for the last 2 years? Imagine how much confidence that would give you. The confidence comes from skill not the tool itself. And skill comes from using the tool extensively which builds confidence in the tool over time.
Item number 1. I did put it in the original M18 lower when it froze. It was still frozen and or sticking. Item number 2 The inner Icarus frame was thoroughly inspected on the inside, no rubbing off of finish or scratches inside. Item number 3, Sig told me that this was a known issue in the pistols with curved triggers. Rare but known. So it was sent in the Icarus frame to Sig for the Factory level repair.
Well I do appreciate the advice, I will point something out. I point out on a regular basis that what doesn't work for me, may work for others and work very well. I am sharing an experience and an opinion.Thats it. as far as a carry gun, I have settled back in between Glock and Staccato. I shoot them both well, and depending on the day and how dress, that makes the decision. More often than not it is a Glock 26 in the Custom Carry mod from TTI. I make videos because it is fun to explore different options, try different things. I envy everybody that has found that one gun.
@@BillFrady item number 1 and 2- you never stated in the video that you put the fcu in the stock m18 frame and it still had issues and you also never said you inspected the inside of the frame for wear in the video. Item number 3- if you received it back from sig and you shoot it so well and love it enough for it to be your carry gun, why sell it? Why not shoot it a couple thousand rounds and test sigs repair job? It doesn’t add up or make sense to me I’m sorry. If you dump a gun every time you have a function issue with it you will never be able to pick one. Because once you pick one and start shooting it a lot it will develop issues. And the cycle will start all over again.
@@alexhanson8697 Ok. I guess the issue here is that you weren't here. I did not get into minute details of every little maneuver as I was trouble shooting. The trigger froze in the back position, inside the FCU.Not due to a spring, which was my 1st thought. If it were due to a spring, I would still have it. I didn't like doing it at all because the gun was ergonomically perfect for me. If they had replaced the FCU with a straight trigger FCU I would have kept it. Lot of things not in the video, because I was not trying to slam Sig. I hope they fix it at some point, but they have a few iterations out there that are spotty. Every gun is going to malfunction, but my decision is more based on the nature of the malfunction. If a manufacturer tells me it's a known problem, I listen. I lost a lot of money divesting myself from those guns, so I wasn't walking around feeling partricularly brilliant.
P320 series is junk. Unusual maintenance schedule on certain springs that sig recommends you change. My trigger turned to mush between 7-8000 rounds. Discharges happening when it wouldn’t happen to other fire arms. I’ll never buy another one. Metal series guns are good to go but their striker fired weapons are trash. I mean even the module was created initially for a hammer. The cut out remains.
The Sig FCU didn’t go out of commission for needing a cleaning and the FCU is absolutely simple to work on. Did you buy this gun used? Did someone who didn’t know what they were doing do something to that FCU? It sounds like a damaged trigger return spring which takes literally 5 seconds to replace. I bet the trigger was removed by someone who didn’t know what they were doing and tweaked the trigger return spring. It wasn’t cleaning, I own multiple P320s that are used in 3 Gun, in my classes and carried it as a duty gun.
I did but the gun used. So I don't really have any idea what the history of this gun was, but the range failure and resulting attempts by me to get it running were eye openers. Unfortunately, this was the platform I shot best as well. I didn't make the decision lightly.
How many rounds is your pistol at you use for 3 gun? My original xfive broke 200k before the fcu broke. My 320 legion xfive is approaching 100k soon.
John, I have a lot of hard rounds through my Xfive’s but not quite to those types of numbers. I wish, that is some serious lead downrange! They are extremely reliable guns…
"For those of you who think this is a bad decision, I make them all the time!"
The funniest grandpa advice I've ever heard, keep going sir 😂😂😂
Thanx Magnificent, your comments always make my day!
WD40 is a gunk collector and most armorers would never use it on a quality fire arm, not even a BB gun. I wonder what other maintenance practices are in play. And about the accidental discharge issues the 320 from an engineering point of view with the FCU upgrades CAN NOT fire unless parts are broken, or the trigger is pulled AND the slide is in full lock up and seated. If the 320 goes off the slide was fully seated AND the trigger was pulled OR IT CAN NOT FIRE (in normal working condition). The military and LE have used so many 320's that clearly operator error is in play with the current bad press.
Interesting comment. I went with WD 40 because that was all that was available at the time. Got it home, soaked it in CLP, problem remained. Soaked it in Frog Lube solvent, problem remained.
Frog Lube or CLP is all that I use. The issue was a Known issue that seemingly only occurs with the curved trigger FCU. I hated to part with with my 320s. I could draw a face on a target with them.Not a spring, and not the Icarus precision module. FCU froze. period.
*Lock N Load Radio 1* I don't care what gun it is or who makes it, if you've lost confidence in its ability to get the job done, get rid of it. Had a Kimber if it wasn't dead clean it would malfunction . Thank-you sir for taking the time to tell us your story. God Bless.
Same with my POS First gen SA XDS .45. Pure shitte.
Thanx Mr Rebar
Probably bent the trigger return spring while you were installing it in the Icarus module. It’s a pretty easy fix and SigGuy on TH-cam has an install video. It sucks that the spring is as vulnerable as it is, but at least a spare, and a better one at that, can be obtained for less than $10.
Thats interesting. Thank you.
Exactly what happened. Even the slightest bend will do it.
I changed the trigger shoe on my P320 XCompact a couple of years ago and the trigger return spring is a little bugger for sure.
The P320 problems are well documented and I understand why guys would not buy one and why they might sell one after ownership. Better to get rid of a car or a gun a year too early rather than a year too late.
This is the Achilles heel that took mine out of commission at a training class. They need to adjust the design on this.
100% this. He either bent the trigger return spring or the after market grip module is interfering with the spring. Has nothing to do with cleaning. I've installed brand new springs from some companies that would do that immediately even when there not bent. They were just out of spec. The factory springs (that are not bent or have interference with the aftermarket grip module) or armory craft springs always work great. Could be grip module that's out of spec though. It's a stretch to blame the pistol for bad reliability when it stopped working when you added aftermarket parts. Why not blame the parts instead of the pistol that was working before you installed the parts. Anyways, most likely you just screwed the spring up. It happens if your not aware of it.
Did Sig say exactly what they did in the "factory service"? Did they completely disassemble the FCU and clean each part? Just put the whole thing in an ultrasonic cleaner for a bit and then re-lube? Replace any springs or other parts? I'm curious what actually had to be done, and what regular folks can't do at home.
$144 sounds like either a few hours of labor, or an hour of labor plus some parts and shipping.
Looking at the slip, I see no parts included. So I guess it was a total tear down and cleaning.
So would you trust the new model that they claim have fixed ? Would you buy again ?
The new m18 seems so good but I hear bad reviews of firing pin going out well to early and getting lawsuits put on sig but how does the military find this model so reliable?
Until Sig gets out front of their "issues" and takes some steps to correct them, I. am out .
The military bought more than guns. They bought parts and instruction and support. So problems happen and they correct them.
@@BillFrady I agree with you 100% however I have no clue how they didn’t catch the problem with the m18 during its safety protocol before it entered the military I find some of the incidents as a hoax or irresponsible training but other incidents sounding reasonable .
@@BillFrady what is your current carry if you don’t mind me asking
I have a 365, p320 xcompact and a x5 legion. Never had that issue before and I definitely put cleaning off.
Well, all I will say is pay attention to the area on the FCU around the trigger.
I really try to become a fan boy of the P320 line. However, it’s not for me. I tried. Today I’m getting rid of my ZEV Z320 XCarry. Having said that, there is one P320 that I love and that is the XFive Legion. Fantastic gun and zero problems. I look forward to coming along on your journey to finding a new carry a gun. Thank you for the video.
Wow, you are getting rid of the ZEV? You should gimme a buzz and tell me about it.
Can you do a video on how to sell your gun? I'm very curious how to go about it, thank you.
How I sell them. Most of the time I sell them to an FFL.
If you still trust Sig, I would definitely take a look at the P365 XL for a carry gun. I have Glocks, HK’s, CZ’s and Shadow Sytems, and none of them carry the way it does with similar capacity (12/15). Not too small, and carry’s just right.
No the trust is gone now til they revise the FCU. I will go with TTI Combat Masters and Staccato for the time being.
Love my P365 XL Spectre..I carry it everywhere I go. Such a sweet shooter
That’s what I got, absolutely love it.
I'm told the 365 FCU is completely different from the 320.
@@BillFrady +1!
KnifeMaker
I’m curious what cleaning solutions and lubricants you use, how heavy the use was, and what the cleaning regimen was like. FCU disassembly and reassembly can be done by the user. Sig would probably say it voids your warranty but tearing down a Glock to its components would do the same thing
I use either CLP or Froglube. I dont allow build up. This was a used gun and I have no idea the way it was treated prior to my buying it.
So you put an aftermarket frame on your gun and it starts failing when it never failed on the original frame and it’s SIGs fault? Asking for a friend.
Well I tried a couple of other FCUs with this particular frame and they worked just fine. Tell your friend to have a nice day.
My friend wants to know if it started working again when the original FCU was reunited with the original frame.
@@Robbie6298 Yes. After 144 bucks and 3 weeks at Sig it worked like new. So it was not the Icarus frame. It was an odd coincidence. But it would have happened, regardless.
@@Robbie6298 I didn't reunite it with the original frame. Tell your friend that all trouble shooting was down prior to the call to Sig. It was not the frame. FCU was removed and still had a restricted trigger when it was free of any frame. So yes to any further questions. It was Sigs fault, and they expressed this to me, which is why I sent it to them.It is a man made machine and these fall all the time. So any other questions this friend may have, there is no scenario in this instance where the frame caused the mishap.
6months old video,
You still have doubts?? What is the alternative??
Apparently FN 509
I know I'm with this but I also tried a M18, it just would not work for me. My main carry is a LTT 92 carry and at night a light goes on it and it is my night stand gun.
You had me at Langdon Tactical.
Sounds like your issue is with the aftermarket grip module.
Nope, it was the FCU.
@@BillFrady did the FCU ever fail in the sig grip module?
@@E_ROE No, but according to Sig it was not the module. In fact it was sent to Sig in the Icarus module and the service was done on the FCU. This FCU has the curved trigger and according to Sig what happened is a known but rare issue. If it had been in the Sig module it still would have failed, when it failed. Not a module or cleaning issue. It is a design flaw.
The P320 has its controversies. I've noticed at the range I work at the M17/M18 and the 'curved' trigger ones have issues. The X-Series don't have these issues. Why? I can't tell you. I have a few X-Series versions and had no issues. Due to all the controversy I only use my X-Series at the range.
Mine has a curved trigger Hmmmmm.
Thanks for the video - just wondering, how many rounds did you put through it since the last time you cleaned it - that before it jammed on you? Also, is WD-40 the right lubricant to use on a firearm?
No it isn't. Not at all.I used WD 40 because that was the only thing present. and it had been cleaned prior to the range trip where it froze. After it came back from Sig it was sold immediately.
I have 9 P320s all of mine have been good...my first one(The RX model) has about 16000 rounds down range and I still fire that gun to this day
I don't think mine was indicative of the entire line up, but it was enough for me.
9 mushy ass pistols. Cmon man
@@tbmb9531 Ok what do you carry?
I think the point is being missed. The point is that he's having this issue in that configuration that may be present in others so it has to be figured out why so... Not the fact that you have nine of the same gun and it's working fine...
@@Division_Agent_ it’s in every video when someone has a problematic pistol, Fanboys gotta say the have tens of thousands of rounds without a single malfunction through all their other pistols of the same manufacturer. I had a p320 that wouldn’t cycle sig ammo. It refused, I mean the slide completely locked up. Worked fine with other ammo, had gunsmith check the pistol and it’s completely fine. Go figure 🤷♂️
I love Icarus but could it be the grip module? A few months ago I had about 10 sigs and the only malfunctions I’ve ever had out of any of them were when I was breaking in the PMM comp on my 365. That being said I’ve been slowly moving away from sig as I’m really enjoying the 2011 platform more these days.
I tried a different FCU in the Icarus module. Perfect function. Moving to a 2011.....oooolala!
@@BillFrady I’m with you on the 2011. They’re perfection for me. Can’t wait to see staccatos new pistol announced tomorrow. Pretty sure it’s a sub 4” slimmer double stack
Have about two thousand rounds through my M-17/320. Minimum of cleaning, not a single problem out of it, and it's got an aftermarket Wilson Combat grip frame. I have heard of other complaints about the Icarus frames causing issues. Have a partner with a factory AXG aluminum frame, and he said he has had zero problems with his after about 2500 rounds. I would look at the frame, or put it back in the factory polymer frame, and see if the problem repeats itself. Could just have been an out of spec fire control group that got through QC too, it happens to all manufacturers here and there. I have friends still active duty that are approaching 8K-9K on their M-17's and M-18's with little or no issues so far.
It wasn't the icarus Module. Sig got the gun with it installed and fixed it.
@@BillFrady Like I said, out of spec FCG most likely. Surprised SIG worked on it with it in the Icarus frame though, they used to be a pain in the ass on servicing anything that wasn't strictly SIG. Good on them for changing policy.
@@283blood Originally I asked to send in the FCU only. I was told it had to whole gun. then I was told I had to put in back in original configuration. I balked at that string that if it wouldn't run as it is what is the point?
My only concern is the football shaped end of the guide rod. I was leaving the range,so I attempted to empty a live round, and the slide wouldn't move. I had to fire the gun to get the round out of the chamber. Makes me want to sell it.
In all honesty that sounds like there could be something going on, but my not being a gunsmith keeps me from making that call.
@@BillFrady Try inserting the guide rod just a little bit crooked, you cannot put it back together. I couldn't extract a live round manually because the guide rod seized up. My Glocks and m&p and CZ don't have that football shaped guide rod.
I’m not really a gun guy and I’m new to it all but I have two p320s and I haven’t had any issues as of yet. I have an xcompact and a M18 both with Wilson Combat grip modules.
And I hope you dont. Run them and train with them. But be aware.
@@BillFrady agreed the M18 is new and xcompact I have had for about 3 maybe even 4 years
I’m sorry to hear that this happened. Of course no one would be able to predict such an unfortunate happening. It is fortunate, however, that you have so many other options that it is a struggle to choose. 😎
Yessir, many many options
The P320 has been my edc for some time. It's ease of maintenance and reliability have been great. It's an extremely proven pistol in the area of reliability. I maintain it by shooting the hell out of it. 😬 I quit counting at 5000 rounds and that's been a couple of years ago. I practice and shoot often. The P320 compact with the Wilson Combat grip module, and Ameri-glo night sights my set-up. Carried every day. Don't leave home without it!!
This was a personal decision for me. That I did not make lightly. If not works for you then by all means carry it.
@stephenhall
I want to pick up a sig 320 m18 do you still edc the 320? Was worried about the rumors floating around.
@@omarcaban9917 I see you didn't get an answer. I still carry mine every day and shoot it a lot. If you want to know more about the 320, here ya go.
th-cam.com/video/VmwpkJuIR00/w-d-xo.html
I was all in on the P320 back years ago. I moved away and happy I did. The P365 is still an option for me as well as the P226 and P229 variants.
I love the P229.
You're a clown
Is it possible that the lower was out of spec?
No it worked with other FCUs and it worked when it came back.
Did the 320 function properly after SIG cleaned it up or was it a broken part ? I love the 320 but was thinking about getting a glock too
It functioned properly. And I sold it anyway.
Did you consider the possibility that the beautiful Icarus precision aircraft grade aluminum lower may have been the problem and try putting the factory lower back on?
Yes. Tried that. Also tried 3 other FCUs in the Icarus Precision lower. They did work. Not my first rodeo on the troubleshooting part. I tried everything in the cleaning bag of tricks. Because this was my chosen carry weapon. Then I called Sig. And it was a rare but known problem. And then I dumped every Sig I owned, despite the likelihood of it recurring being low.
@@BillFrady Seems like a bit of an overreaction to me. I've owned 3 p320s and never had an issue, but you have to do what you think is best for you. I'm not married to Sig, in fact my most recent acquisition and current carry gun is the Walther PDP. It comes optics ready and has a great trigger. You should check it out.
@@johnp5139 You are one of a multitude that have suggested that. I am trying to find one.
@@BillFrady You chose a metal framed pistol with a manual safety. You don't strike me as someone who's cost averse, maybe a high end 1911 is for you?
@@johnp5139 It will probably end up being my Staccato C2 unless the CS turns out to be an epic gun.
I have the Sig AXG Scorpion and I have about 600 rounds through it with no issues. I too said I’d never sell it b/c I love it. I don’t carry it but do use it for home defense. I carry the P365 XL Spectre with about 600 rounds and no issues…
The AXG will be one I look at later. The Macro is also a possibility.
The issue is not the FCU (confirmed by you, as you have stated that it has been functional without issue for some time in the OE Grip module).
What you are experiencing is something called "tolerance stacking".
This is likely/anticipated behavior when you introduced a new item into a system. It happens "in-house" with less of an occurrence (hence warranty periods) and tends to be more likely to buyers, when accessories are added/modifications made are from outside of any manufacturer's internal QC verified tolerances.
This is why accessory vendors tend to have the disclaimer "have done by a gunsmith" or.. "fitment may be required".
Note that polymer grip modules flex with temperature differentials, so the FCU"s and grip's tolerances are designed around each other.
The Aluminum module doesn't have as much flex to it, so if you have negative tolerance stacking (in this instance, the tolerances of the module is on the small side and tolerance on the FCU is on the large side), it increased rubbing/friction of the moving components by compressing it beyond their required clearances. In you instance, so much so, that it resulted in the binding of your trigger bar, where your trigger press is strong enough to overcome the friction but the return spring isn't).
The solution is to not interfere with the "proven" FCU and simply increase the tolerance/clearance inside the receiving area of grip module.
The common signs of increased contact, will be bruising of the finish to both the trigger bar and grip module.
If WD40 helped.. it means that it's highly likely minimal material removal will solve it. (basically a 5-10min job with some sand paper, just to remove the anodizing in the area of the trigger bar).
Sig was charging $1 for the sandpaper, $3 for the labor and $140 for knowing how to rectify.
Ok, So Mojo, that is one of the most logical explanations I have heard, but there is one mitigating factor. I tried a grand total of 3 other FCU units with it after this malfunction. 1 on the range, 2 here at home. My 1st thought was exactly what you are describing. But those other FCUs had no problem in this frame. So, what is the likelihood that only one FCU would be built correctly, and yet bind up due to not enough space to move in a frame?
@@BillFrady very likely.
I ran QA QC for the manufacturing industry for years. It happens more than you think
@@I_ammm_mojojojo So then you are saying the issue was the FCU?
@@BillFrady what I'm saying is that items are manufactured with a +/- tolerance.
From batch to batch, there will be similarities between them as well as variances from things like, punch & die sharpness, press tool poundage ratings, conveyor speed, etc, etc, etc.
Ware takes place after every strike of the punch, movement of a piston, etc and tools are typically & routinely sharpened, aligned etc.. but minor variances in the raw materials also attribute/account for a tool prematurely reaching it's fatigue limit prior to the scheduled service.
This is typically accounted for in the service scheduling (to an anticipated extent) but it's not perfect. This is why there is something called "line checks", where random items are pulled and checked to the spec tolerance. Even if it is not "spot on" but within the pre-determined acceptable tolerance, the part will move on to the next station/assembly/etc.
When this happens to a few of the components that make up a larger assembles part, like an FCU, engine cams, etc.. and the item is tested at quality control, it's still possible to meet the tolerance of the operational spec of the intended assembled item.. and once it does, it "passes" QC.
Now if you alter the QC passed, completely assembled item and have no was of calibrating or checking the tolerances, to the manufacturer's standard.. then your are just "hoping that it will work".
Internally, in manufacturing, I've seen entire batches of products dumped because a tool wore beyond acceptable tolerance and the individual item was passed, it wasn't properly functional in final assembly.. and it was cheaper to trash them than to repair them.
So as I said previously, it's way more common than the average person would realize, especially in larger mass-production environments.
Customized items, though not immune, are typically to a higher tolerance and output quality because of the higher level of human involvement and focus on singularities.. eg. Abbot/Stacatto, McLaren.
So by the above, if your FCU was perfectly functional in the grip module it came in. the FCU would not be deemed as the issue. And due to some of the tighter safety tolerances to things like the striker engagement face and safeties, I'd recommend leaving the FCU alone (especially after the accounts of un-engaged discharges).
If you send it to SIG and they interfere with/adjust/modify the FCU, the liability would lay with them if (God forbid) any accidents happen in the future.
If the FUC is also problematic in other SIG grip modules, then it's likely the FCU's tolerance is closer to the "limit" than would be preferred. And again, with this, if you send it to SIG, they should be professional enough to replace it with one in a more optimal tolerance spec.
Again, I'm not a gunsmith, but with a machining background and then in industrial manufacturing QA/QC, as well as servicing my own guns/mechanical items.. yeah, I'm not as easily tempted to install with aftermarket parts, unless I know that either I have the time to dedicate to fitment (2 seconds to 2 months), or just send it back to a certified operation to have it done.
@@I_ammm_mojojojo Once again, logic is all present here. So this is what Sig did do. Sig did pull the FCU apart in a way as to facilitate its total cleaning beyond anything I could do here(I would have liked to have seen that). They then reassembled it and put it back in the Icarus Precision module and tested it. The gun was sent in its entirety, but not with the stock frame. It was sent with the Icarus Precision frame. Because that is the way this particular gun was going to exist if I continued to own it. So the emphasis was to make it work. There were no marks or scratches inside the frame due to contact prior to my sending it to Sig. I am not a gunsmith either, but I do know a few trouble shooting steps, and I also know when the issue exceeds my knowledge I pass it to those who speacilize in those repairs. Bottom line is that in a range test, the trigger failed to reset after the first round. It failed due to a buildup around the moving parts of the trigger. It failed despite being cleaned by me after the 1st range test. It failed prior to any steps I took. The mechanics were and are inconsequential to me. It wasn't due to the frame. It is a known issue to Sig, although apparently very rare. This is the platform I shot the best straight out of the box, it is my preferred grip angle. I was very heavily invested in it(owned 3 different P320s). And now it is gone, because it has a known flaw.
I have been eyeballing the X-Five Legion for over a year and haven't purchased one because of the potential P320 issues that have been reported out there. I was actually going today to finally get one......will continue to hold off now. This is most disappointing to hear from an extremely trusted source and reviewer. Can't see putting a P320 of any kind into my arsenal right now. As always, sincerely appreciate all you do for the gun community. Keep up the outstanding work and content. Thank you!!!
Roger that. Thank you sir
My friend has a Walther, PDP and I have the Legion P3, 20 and a PDP was a much more in tune and sound system. I felt ripped off.
Get a 226 SAO legion you will be happy. It’s even better then a X5
Have you checked out the aftermarket frame to see if it bent the trigger spring?
yes and it didn't
I love my revolvers more and more. Low capacity and heavy but works every damn time.
Im totally in touch with that emotion
Been looking at the Wilson Combat P320. It’s the only variant of the gun I’ve been curious to try.
What is different about the Wilson Combat variant?
@@BillFrady they do their own slide cuts and install the Grey Guns action tune on the FCU. Comes on their frame as well with their sights.
Polymer80 makes a cool version as well.
Outside of sights, I wouldn't modify a carry gun. Sig does make a factory aluminum grip frame p320 and a tungsten infused polymer grip frame.
Every Handgun I own is modified to some degree. In this case the Icarus Precision module incorporates the Staccato Trifecta grip angle. This gun is very accurate, at least for me. The angle is significant. But based on this result, the P320 is out of my picture unless some noted redesign simplifies the FCU enough for field expediency.
Sorry about your disappointment with your P320. The P320 FCU maintenance should be simple enough enough; remove, clean, lube, and reinstall. I do wonder if the could have been clearance issues with an after market frame. Also it would have been interesting to know what Sig said the problem was.
I tried another FCU with the Module and it functioned perfectly. I agree with what the process should be and probably is most cases.
I have seen Glocks fail as well from the striker etc being gunked up. Could be the cleaning solutions being used caking up
Could have been.
Glocks don’t fire on their own after being dropped or being holstered lol.
I bought my P320 right before drop gate. After maybe 500rds it started to jam and stove pipe, I didn't want to send it back to Sig again so I sold it and bought an M&P. Every now and then I think about trying one again, but after this video maybe I should wait a while longer.
That is not for me to say. It would be refreshing if Sig would get out in front of the rumors and accusations. The silence just makes the stuff bigger and seem more plausible.
The reason I don’t buy Sig Pistols. The only one I purchased was the M17 variant for my son when he was in ROTC.
Would Kingpin carry one?
@@BillFrady The Kingpin always loves high end firearms.
what do you buy ?
@@stahpit1971 Me? Or, him? Money being no object, A Staccato Compensated with an an Aimpoint Acro P-2, a Surefire light, and 6 extra magazines.
The short time I owned my Sig P320 "Carry" (red box special/certified pre-owned) I loved it. I genuinely thought it would be my new carry/HD handgun. At the time, my primary range ammunition was Wolf steel case 115gr ball ammo. It had the trigger upgrade from the factory, the gun appeared new in box. Initially the gun ran fine with whatever ammo I put through it. I never changed any internal components.
After approximately 500-700 rounds of mixed steel and brass case ammo, I began to have FTE with steel case. I tore the handgun down, cleaned the chamber, striker channel, extractor, etc. To my surprise, it wasn't all that dirty (as I had been routinely cleaning the handgun). The handgun would function fine any brass case, but began to fail harder and harder with steel case ammo. I contacted SIG about this issue. Their response was that #1 they did not recommend using any steel case ammo. #2 Their handguns are manufactured with very tight chamber tolerances, which may have been why in my case the handgun was malfunctioning.
As a result, I decided to sell the handgun. I want all of my handguns to function reliably with steel case, or any other in spec factory ammunition I can put in it. Over the years, I have owned, Glocks, M&Ps, and XDs, none of which have ever choked on steel case ammunition (of which I have shot thousands of rounds). You be the judge.
Yeah it has its share of issues that other striker fired guns don't have.
Lol why would you shoot steel through any gun more than a thousand dollars…. Please shoot brass only through expensive guns…
@@bwatsup12534 Why shoot steel cased ammo? Because inflations a b!tch.
@@bwatsup12534 What kind of weak argument is that? not that the P320 Carry is over a thousand dollars to begin with, it's closer to 500.
Oz9c with an icaurs next?
Oz9c?
@BillFrady zev oz9 compact with the new grip icarus made for it.
WD-40 means water displacement, attracting everything. CLP should be your jam.
Please note when I say “Jam,” I mean it what you should use. WD-40 will carbon clog everything except rusty pliers, door jambs and etc.
It jammed prior to the introduction of WD 40. Sig indicated that while it is rare it is known. Thanx for watching.
@@BillFrady No disrespect intended but the Sig FCU is by far the easiest gun for me to clean. I actually pop the FCU out and spray it down with Ballistol then shake and wipe off excess. You can actually put the FCU in the dishwasher and it won’t hurt it.
@@Kaleo_vibez yessir. I had 4 P320s when this occurred. Never had it happen to any of them. This was a weird anomaly. And I hated getting rid of them because it was perfect. I could draw a face on a target. It was one of the harder decisions I have made.
I have 4800 round through my Sig Sauer M18 with no malfunctions of any kind.
I do not doubt that at all. This was not my only P320. My full sized gun ran like a banshee.
I do not know if you mentioned this in a more recent video, but what are you carrying now? My father and I are looking to get new CCWs and were looking at the 365 but have heard rust issues and apparently something about a law suit over it going off. I have the M18 now and like it, but as a smaller guy, can't conceal it. Great vid as always, sucks that the P320 did that on you.
I am alternating between a Glock 19x and a TTI Custom Carry Glock 26. But I am waiting on the Staccato CS. Might give that a go.
Never had a problem with p200 series sig
I haven't ever heard of one of those either.
Anyone ever tried cleaning with ultrasonic cleaner?
We have one we use for motorcycle carburetors and this came to mind.
Now that is interesting. How big are these ultrasonic units?
Excellent review 👏 thanks a lot.
Thank you, LOBO
I'm having the same issue since putting the Icarus grip module on. I know that it doesn't have to do with it being dirty though, it's barely been shot and in addition I have cleaned it. A lot of people recommended changing the trigger return spring, for $9 I'm going to start with that before sending it to sig.
I will say this. I sent the entire set up including Icarus Precision module and when it came back it was perfect.
Maybe it’s because of a modification didn’t you put another slide assembly on it 😊
Nope. It was meant to Sig with the Icarus precision lower attached, and the FCU was reworked. It was due to a known issue in the curved trigger FCUs and instead of replacing it with a Straight trigger FCU, they simply worked the one that has the known issue. And I had to pay for it.
I say it could be a simple fix. All my SIGs don't have stock triggers, I clean and maintain my FCUs all the time. Zero issues. You might just need a new spring for the trigger bar on the FCU
No parts were replaced when it was sent to Sig
@@BillFrady ok so the spring just popped out of place. No reason to make a video feeling heartbroken in my honest opinion. SIG is an awesome company and I love them and their firearms 💯🥶🖤🤍🤍💙
@@ssj4shinyslowbro877 or I can do what I have done and move on, agreed? Whether it was a simple spring malfunction or excessive build up it doesn’t happen on any other guns I own. Hence it is gone.
@@BillFrady okay
Top list for you my friend:
1) HK P30 LEM LTT
2) CZ P10C or P10S
3) Sig P365 X Macro
4) FN 509cc Edge
5) Walther PDP F 3.5”
Tell me about the PDP F
@@BillFrady there are 4” and 3.5 versions. Very similar to PDP Compact model with slightly redesigned grip and a touch smoother action(easier to rack the slide). Slimmer, but ver ergonomic grip, is the biggest difference. Still 15+1…3.5” model is pretty much ideal carry gun if you don’t want to go “micro” sizes etc.
Why wd40? I think it is not a good option for guns.
WD40 was what was available at the time. Got it home and cleaned it right with CLP, blew it dry then CLP again. Still no joy.
I've heard about SO MANY problems with the P320 that I've decided not only will I never own one, I will warn off everyone I know to stay away from it!
Yessir. I fully feel that emotion as well.
Sorry to hear, I’ve owned a M17 for a few years, never have any issues, updated the trigger, added a red dot, Wilson Combat grip, love the gun , feeds anything
I think the various iterations of the gun have different characteristics. Thoughts?
Smart choice. More yet to come on 320 series. ,,,,,,,!,,,,,,,
I am afraid you will prove to be correct.
Ok good. Now it’s time for a Staccato vs the field video for the next carry piece👊
Ahhhh. What would you like to see as the test though?
@@BillFrady The Staccato vs the two top contenders compete in the “Dicken Drill” shootout. Winner gets carry rights.
That is odd that is an issue. It doesn’t make sense that you need to have factory maintenance to clean the gun.
But I guess sig thinks that is ok.
It was a new one for me too.
@@BillFrady that would also make me not wanting to own one.
Bummer deal. Ever considered a test drive with the Walther PDP as an option? I think you'd like it 👌🏼
I am going to look at that gun again. Maybe an FN 509 as well.
This gun isn't shooting by itself. I bought my P320 like 5 days ago and I deemed this gun unsafe before I even learned it was apparently shooting by itself. Not because of any defect or anything but because of that trigger. There's no safeties and that P320 has the shortest and lightest trigger pull of all my guns.
That's what I think and I came to that conclusion before I ever knew of the self firing issue. People aren't taking that trigger seriously.
That's my take on it. This gun cannot fire without that trigger being squeezed and the margin of error is very short on a P320.
All conditions being equal, I agree.
I feel like you’re searching for something that you’ve already found. You have Staccatos to carry and you have that sweet G45 (i think) Combat Master. To me, adding another gun to the mix is over complicating things unnecessarily. I carry a full size 1911 most of the time. When I’m not carrying that, it’s a Langdon Tactical P30L with the extra light LEM package. I shoot both to the degree that my Langdon Tactical G45 sits in the safe. Also have a P365 X Macro for the rare occasion when I need a smaller, slimmer profile. That’s it.
Take it for what it’s worth. It’s just one nobody’s opinion.
And no, I don’t think you overreacted in rehoming the gun. If I have a gun that’s meant to be carried and I can’t trust it, it goes to a new home. Look forward to future updates to find out what you decide.
I think you are probably right Lego Joker. I may throw a FN509 into the mix and see how that runs as well.
I get it! Been there done that with a host of "things". For a CCW, if you don't trust it, it needs to go regardless because that gremlin in your mind can't exist in the event of a self defense moment. An aside, for me....I do put aftermarket parts on some weapons but like anything...a truck, a motorcycle, etc...when we deviate from the engineered/tested standard, we take risk. I stopped modding anything on a CCW bar sights or a red dot.
Agreed on all counts. Thank You.
One time in the ancient past I had a problem with a Colt 32 Auto that had a link break on the trigger which gave the same symptom.
If it had been a spring failing, ok that happens. But it was a failure that I could not forgive.
My agency would ultrasound all service weapons once a year, and we carried Glocks.
Well now I can say, I too carry Glocks
@@BillFrady I had a H&K P7M10 I carried for a bit in the early 90's as a off duty weapon. Went to shoot it one day and I got light primer strikes. Sent it to H&K and they said a unburnt particle of gunpowder had slowed the firing pin enough to not detonate the primer. Like you I lost trust in the weapon, because it just had to work when I needed it. I too got rid of it, and now they are worth north of 5K if you can find one.
@@leewoiteshek4192 Hmmm. I don't know if that collector price will hit the P320 platform.
Glock and PDP 👍🔥🔥. All I run
Just subscribed.
Which PDP? And thanx.
@@BillFrady I have the PDP full size 4 inch. Love it. The upgraded trigger from Walther is the best trigger I've ever felt on a striker fired pistol. Glock is always good to go. Learned to love it as the tool it is. Trust both with my life.
I work at a gun range and shop and yes I’ve seen that twice before in Sigs but never Glock and I’m a Sig guy btw. You didn’t go into detail in the issue but It just sounds like a broken spring. We have a gunsmith and he handles those issues so I’m not sure how easy or hard it is but if you have a local gunsmith it sounds like he could fix it for less than $144.
Well, I don't know anyone around here that works on this particular gun. It would have been nice to have it happen at your range. If I fully understood what happened(still don't) I might have not made the choice I made.
And th classic sigs last they run forever 320s seem more Flimsily in every way
Sig P320 is one a few firearms I won't buy, not only because of the past drop test issues but some have reported the firearm firing just from shaking it.
I dropped them the 1st time around, because of the "fix". the slide would slightly rise when I pulled the trigger. This time I thought everything was good to go, sadly it isn't.
Sold mine
What changed your mind?
@@BillFrady recent issues with PDs and my trigger failed to reset several times and I am very anal with cleaning of my firearms and I was surprised by those issues long story short I loved it but it had to go I no longer trust it maybe one day when sig gets the kinks out I’ll grab one back up but for now back to my trusty G19 for EDC
Just read your reply to me about the M18, thanks again.
Still was still pondering what to do about getting one, after seeing this video I’ll just look around for something else and keep carrying my 365 and the xl, they work.
Just subscribed, enjoy your video’s, God bless!!
Thank you. Maybe look at the Walther PDP. I am going to give it another look.
Will do!!
I won't change the trigger ,our any part I know it will change the reliability. Don't change anything unless you are a specialist. I read that alot of guns fail due to upgrade in major league that have to go back and put the original part back in for it to run properly. Bad part they didn't train with it like that 😕. I wonted a gun with out changing it . That would function flawlessly that hold 20+ round optic ready with rails.
I can operate mag release and slide release without changing my grip.
Try the 226 SAO legion. It’s way better then any 320
I am currently in a no Sig situation.
@@BillFrady ahh classic sigs are great!! They work n reliable. I have plenty I don’t like the newer ones
Something smilar happened to me last year wit my P320-C, beautful pistol, but FWIK absolutely unreliable.
Maybe I was only unlucky and got a lemon.
Anyway I wasn't very happy and sold it myself.
I went back to my BERETTA 92 and GLOCK 17 that I've been using wihout a single issue since mid Nineties.
Im back with a Glock myself, Sig should get it together, though.
Ive carried the P320 for several years with no problems. I truly believe the incidents that have happened are user error even though they may not realize it. Ill continue to carry it.
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
Some of these videos amaze me.
In what way?
This example is why I just don't trust Sig at all. They do not stand by their guns. They charge a super premium and then blame the customer when their guns do not perform or do not hold up as they claim .
This really bothers me as well.
Check out the 509. Mine has been wayyy more reliable than my P320
On my radar sir. I have owned one before, gonna give it another look.
Glad too hear that. I had three so far and had issues with all them. And that trigger is garbage. So far besides sig365/320. I love the pdp and Masada.
@@heaterfamily The trigger is double action, way safer than the single action of a P320 (never seen the 509 go off by itself) but because of that it’s a little heavier. Also the 509 has two “trigger bars” instead of one, evening out the stress so it doesn’t break after 10k rounds like P320’s. The things an absolute tank, 2k rounds without a single malfunction on my personal one. 500 rounds through my M18 commemorative with 4 light primer strikes. Every range I’ve went to that had a 509 for rent each had at least 20k rounds with no “Reported!” malfunctions. None could say the same for the P320. Idk why you’d keep buying a pistol that gave you problems, owning 3 with all them giving you problems sounds kinda fishy.
@@KennyRodgers930 Got one when they first came out then got the tactical then I got the one with the comp not very fishy at all didn’t like any of them sold them all
@@heaterfamily So you got one when they first came out… They only shipped with the 24# spring meant for Duty/+P ammunition, since they’re first and foremost Duty/Military grade firearms, so you’d definitely have a break-in period if you’re shooting regular 115gr ammo. Same thing with the Tac but they included a regular 17# spring in a separate bag. Then FN realized the average Civilian knows nothing about springs and what ammunition to use with what so now they all come with the 17# spring installed, if you are shooting higher pressure ammo you can buy the 24# spring aftermarket. Same thing with the CC Comp, or any brand new comped double stack pistol, you can’t shoot 115gr reliably without breaking it in first. When you add a comp you severely decrease the amount of gas used to cycle the slide, which will definitely cause malfunctions using lower powered ammo. In order to break in the springs you have to shoot at LEAST 200rds of 124gr, then it should run like a sewing machine.
I have a couple very nice p320s, an axg scorpion with an x300 and Rmr, and a flush comp tungsten grip build with an x300 and an SRO. Needless to say I have some coin in p320s, so I’m not a hater. That said I absolutely don’t trust them for carry. All down to the striker safety block, it’s easily the worst in the industry. Look at the glocks (solid block of metal) vp9 (strange levered block of metal) even the p365 (solid block of metal). The p320s striker safety is a dinky little 1mm thick piece of metal, that sits on a ledge about 1mm tall. With a very light spring.
That is not something I have ever considered. thank you for pointing that out.
Sigh... I hate when bad guns happen to good people. My P229 is still so good, I honestly don't think I would ever need another Sig. Except I swear the Macro keeps winking at me whenever I walk by the display case, but I digress...
Winking at me too.
It's safe if you don't load it.
Too funny
I've got 13k on my 320 with no issues. But hearing about other Sig P320 issues worried me. I'd look at the new Springfield Echelon. My 4 " Mod 2 has about 25k rds. And no issues. Hellcat and xds no issues. I think Springfelield is going to emerge as among the most reliable guns. For good reason IMHO. Im sure you replaced the Sig a while ago. Still, the Echolon seems to be a good option.
The Echelon interests me a great deal.
Check my sig p320
Sure dude. Where? Not on your channel.
When i say i love the facetious behavior in this video your like my white grandpa in my own eyes i love watching your videos they crack me up been following for some time now im saddened that Sig feels the way that they feel however i do enjoy mine and pray this never happens to me i have an apex trigger unit in mine and a +20 armory craft trigger spring supper fast resets to get the next shots off but as i digress from the laughter U give me maybe you can revisit them at a later date and give it another try possibly a full build with a custom FCU prayers brother 🙏🏾
I have very seriously entertained the whole Apex trigger thing. I love the P320 form factor. That may well be something I look at later. I truly appreciate the fact that you get that I am not trying to take myself too seriously. Just trying to have a little fun, shoot some guns, add to my skillset a bit. Dont get too sad at the Sig thing. I am running Taran Tactical pistols now and have a box load of Staccatos coming. All good in my world. as far as being your white grandpa, our haircuts do favor, don't they?
I get a lot of lip for having a Springfield, but truth is I have had no issues with my Elite, runs anything including steel case ammo. Got a Sig 320 nothing but issues, failures to feed, magazine issues and just weird malfunctions, like all the time. Couldn't get it to 300 rounds and had at least 10 issues. Glad I sold it and got a VP9, best decision I made. Maybe they should go back to making them in Germany again instead of the US.
Now that is a thought.
Well, that didn't fill me with confidence. I recently bought my first Sig, a P320 Compact Nitron in .45ACP. I'm using it for EDC. I've only shot about 60 rounds through it so far, but I sure don't want to have to worry about it failing me when I need it. I've always carried Glock and Taurus with no worries. Time will tell.
Indeed. I have had a few P320s. Only happened with this one. Does yours have a curved trigger?
@@BillFrady Yup, it does. Is that significant, and which is newer, the curved or the alternative?
@@mikialthorvarsson4569 I do not know, but some here have told me that the curved trigger variant has more issues. Im not sure what they are referencing
Don’t replace a whole bunch of stuff and properly maintain Your firearm and you’ll be fine.
I bought one about 6 months ago and trust me so far its been a good pistol for the range lol so far buttttt!! I will not take it to a gun fight dont trust it enough. Sorry but you failed big time sig , i been in law enforcement 15 years i know little about guns but sig saur p320 m 18 i dont recomend it . Thank for the review stay safe brother .
Well, when it malfunctioned on the range that day, my heart sank. but at least I caught the shortcoming on the range.
Thank God .
We buy Sig's, because out of the box they don't need upgrades like glock, then people mod them and they have issues......idk, leave it stock IMHO
Yes but the very nature of the design beckons at modification. And I didn’t modify the mechanics at all. Just the frame, which people replace all the time. This happened because the FCU failed. Period. Not due to modifications.
I only use wd40 on range for emergency cleaning but not something I would use as my official gun cleaner.
Obviously, I was not nearly clear enough in this video. I used WD40 because that was all that was available. My usual preferred solvents are either CLP or Froglube.
Glock is the best
Dammit........you may be right.
At what? If you say they don’t break or jam I beg to differ. Glock worked on g19 gen 5 three times before the gun would work
I agree I’m selling mine
yessir
Sorry this happened too you ! You certainly not alone , I could write a book on p320 malfunctioning issues. I am done all together with sig polymer guns permanently. Now with the sig p series all metal guns flawless operation mostly ammo related issues . P series all metal guns in da and sa included legion and non legion pistol’s. Love your work and honestly your usually spot on , stay the course my friend that gun will miraculously appear and happy times will come agin . K
In all seriousness, I would like to pick your brain on those issues you have noted. bill@locknloadradio.com. Please shoot me an email.
Hey Sig bots, don't blame the victim.
Thanx Coyote Clone. I am finding some of the comments on this one to be puzzling. It is almost like some are trying to find a reason beyond the failure of a component,(the FCU), and find some reason this was a maintenence issue. Most instructors I know stay away from the P320, like they know something I don't . They shoot thousands of rounds every month. I know some that have tried it and then gone back to Glock or something else. In any event, I reminded of a conversation I had with James Yeager a few years back. He told me that a gun was a tool. Set it up the way you want it to be and just run it. When it breaks fix it. If it fails to do the job, replace it. No emotion involved.
@@BillFrady James Yeager taught me how to grip a pistol (in an instructional video). My first pistol was a glock 19 because of him. RIP James.
I bought a Staccato P because of a Bob Keller class, 10-8 performance and You're videos. My good friend has a few Sig's and his Legion is a laser beam.
I've had Fords and Chevys and had problems with both. Fanatical brand loyalty is horseshit. I want cool stuff but it better work and if doesn't, it needs to be known so it can be fixed.
At the end of the day it's the Indian, not the arrow, but the damn arrowhead better be tied on right.
Here is some excellent information on the 320's FCU.
th-cam.com/video/VmwpkJuIR00/w-d-xo.html
I carry a P-320 Compact in .45 ACP every day. I shoot it a bunch, carry it a bunch, and mine, an admitted sample size of ONE, has been flawless. Yours is also a sample size of ONE, by the way. Every machine can have issues. Give up and throw in the towel if ya want...
Let me be clear on one thing. If Sig gets out front of this, I am back in. I love the platform. As it is, these FCUs remind me of the Android operating system. You can be in the room with 15 Android phones running 8 different versions of the software. I did not make the decision lightly on this. I went all in and built my dream gun, only to get the marquee feature of the platform to fail on the range. I totally get your experience on the gun. I had 4 when I sold them all and I fully believe one was extremely good. But this platform should be more consistent and Sig should own what is happening.
@@BillFrady You do you. I'm no Sig fan-boy, I only own one Sig pistol, I prefer 1911s and DA/SA metal CZs. However, this Sig just has something about it... it's been 100% reliable and I shoot it well. It feels great in hand, it points naturally, the SigLite night-sights are nice, the trigger is great, and to me it's a soft shooting .45.
Sure, it's pretty big for a concealed carry pistol, but I'm not concerned about deep concealment.
Even though I have some nice carry guns, that damned 320 is my go-to.
Put 800 rounds in my P320 the ejector is bent in the fcu 😢🤦🏽♂️😢🤦🏽♂️
Straight trigger or curved?
@@BillFrady straight trigger. Its a P320 X full. First and last P320 🤣
I can go on line and find someone who has or had a issue, with any brand of gun, just name the brand.
I have a p320xc, it's my 4th p320. I have not had any kind of serious problems or concerns with any of them. Some reputable gun review channel's that have tested the sig p320 series is. Military arms channel, tfb tv, mr guns and gear.
And your point is what? That I should overlook a guns issues or have confidence in gun because TH-cam channels have reviewed them? I didn't make this to try to change anybodies mind. I made this to point something out. One little industry secret is that all review or T&E guns are massaged and gone over to ensure all the production hiccups are eradicated.I never watch another channels review of anything I am going to look at and /or film.
You don't watch other gun reviewer's on utube? In your video you talk about watching a guy competing with a sig p320 and how he complained that the gun fired as he was attempting to holster. That one seemed to make a impression on you . If you've lost confidence in a brand, then you're wise not to carry that gun, I agree.
As for guns being cherry picked for influential gun reviewers ? I don't doubt it . But several longtime, and very reputable gun reviewer's that are not sponsored by gun maker's, use their own money to buy firearms they test and they are not cherry picked and gone over by the maker.
You made a assumption about the p320, and that's fine. Thing is, you have a utube channel. Therefore, you open yourself up to public criticism. And that's what I'm doing, criticizing your p320 experience. I do enjoy your channel and will look forward to your next review.
Good health to you sir !
@@michaelphillips5786 the video I referred to was linked from some site, although it was a TH-cam video. I actually misspoke about reviewers. I do like the QVO Channel. He is like Joe Friday in his reviews, just the facts.I have no illusions about the 320. I shoot it best. 9.99999 times out of 10, if I pick one up it runs like a Rolex. That's why it was a heart breaker. That pistol was excellent in every way. Until that odd, rare, but not unheard of failure. I hate that it happened.
@@BillFrady
I understand 👍 like I said, I admire the channel and the radio show, and especially like it when you sit in for Terra .. All the best, sir...
All I can say is Wow, what a disappointment, even more so what the long-term usage is for our Military, I think our Military operates in dirty environments?
I just started with H&K P30s with Safeties, still exploring but they have been impressive so far.
I do like Staccatos and am curious how their new one that was just released will do.
Good luck in your quest.
Thanks for your input. To be sure I have some decent alternatives here to give a try and a few I have not tried yet. I liked the P320 platform a great deal. But ok, it didn't meet one of my criteria. So lets move on.
I was under the impression that "wd40" should not be used to clean a gun... residue is left on gun.
It wasn't my 1st choice, it was what was available.
Its a spring problem just change it.
Not according to Sig.
It could really break your heart if you dropped that pos
No. They have gotten past that. But this is worse.
@@BillFrady yes, now they just spontaneously pop off without being dropped. That is way better. I would never carry one. Too much history of failure. I'd cary a Ruger P series before...
You got rid of a gun that stopped working when you dropped your fcu into an aftermarket frame. Good lord did you put your fcu back into a stock frame and verify whether or not that solved the issue? If it needed a cleaning than the issue would have carried over to a stock frame if you checked. It’s not likely at all that it needed cleaning lol it’s probable that there was tolerance issues with your fcu and the Icarus frame. If you paid close enough attention to your trigger parts or the inside of the frame, you probably would have been able to see where parts were rubbing together to tightly and causing the trigger to stick. You should have contacted Icarus about their frame instead of getting ahold of sig. smh
I have been watching your videos for some time and it’s been a constant search for a carry gun for you. Stop jumping around and just pick one and force yourself to shoot it and carry it for a year. Content like this influences viewers to just keep going out and buying new guns that are essentially the same as all the other guns they already own, when the influence should be to use one gun and train and get good with it. That can’t happen if your constantly changing guns. Buy ammo and training, not repeat gun purchases. Your sig was fine. You mixed aftermarket parts and were unlucky they didn’t work correctly but the stock gun was fine. Imagine where you could be as a shooter if you would have been shooting the same gun for the last 2 years? Imagine how much confidence that would give you. The confidence comes from skill not the tool itself. And skill comes from using the tool extensively which builds confidence in the tool over time.
Item number 1. I did put it in the original M18 lower when it froze. It was still frozen and or sticking. Item number 2 The inner Icarus frame was thoroughly inspected on the inside, no rubbing off of finish or scratches inside. Item number 3, Sig told me that this was a known issue in the pistols with curved triggers. Rare but known. So it was sent in the Icarus frame to Sig for the Factory level repair.
Well I do appreciate the advice, I will point something out. I point out on a regular basis that what doesn't work for me, may work for others and work very well. I am sharing an experience and an opinion.Thats it. as far as a carry gun, I have settled back in between Glock and Staccato. I shoot them both well, and depending on the day and how dress, that makes the decision. More often than not it is a Glock 26 in the Custom Carry mod from TTI. I make videos because it is fun to explore different options, try different things. I envy everybody that has found that one gun.
@@BillFrady item number 1 and 2- you never stated in the video that you put the fcu in the stock m18 frame and it still had issues and you also never said you inspected the inside of the frame for wear in the video. Item number 3- if you received it back from sig and you shoot it so well and love it enough for it to be your carry gun, why sell it? Why not shoot it a couple thousand rounds and test sigs repair job? It doesn’t add up or make sense to me I’m sorry. If you dump a gun every time you have a function issue with it you will never be able to pick one. Because once you pick one and start shooting it a lot it will develop issues. And the cycle will start all over again.
@@alexhanson8697 Ok. I guess the issue here is that you weren't here. I did not get into minute details of every little maneuver as I was trouble shooting. The trigger froze in the back position, inside the FCU.Not due to a spring, which was my 1st thought. If it were due to a spring, I would still have it. I didn't like doing it at all because the gun was ergonomically perfect for me. If they had replaced the FCU with a straight trigger FCU I would have kept it. Lot of things not in the video, because I was not trying to slam Sig. I hope they fix it at some point, but they have a few iterations out there that are spotty. Every gun is going to malfunction, but my decision is more based on the nature of the malfunction. If a manufacturer tells me it's a known problem, I listen. I lost a lot of money divesting myself from those guns, so I wasn't walking around feeling partricularly brilliant.
P320 series is junk. Unusual maintenance schedule on certain springs that sig recommends you change. My trigger turned to mush between 7-8000 rounds. Discharges happening when it wouldn’t happen to other fire arms. I’ll never buy another one. Metal series guns are good to go but their striker fired weapons are trash. I mean even the module was created initially for a hammer. The cut out remains.
I just loved that grip angle, but the mechanical issue overcame my love.