the glocks were flawed and so are these. during the investigation of the flawed glocks, officers were found to be negligent in many cases; the strikers were rotating in their housing & fired weapons on impact but glock spun the negligent officer angle to death & you fell for it. glock also knows a simple mod to the back of their slide allows the weapons to fire full auto, but won't change their design to prevent this.
The older version used to go off when dropped at the right angle onto the bottom of the magazine. It turned out that the trigger was a bit too heavy and carried momentum at the point of impact. They revised the trigger to take out some weight and that solved the issue. But, for this gun to go off all by itself requires several components to go horribly wrong all at the same time. I have better odds playing Mega Millions lottery.
That was my exact thought, unless something comes in contact with the trigger, a piece of clothing, maybe the gun was not properly seated in the holster, maybe it was the incorrect holster. What people is not understanding is that gun nowadays are extremely safe compare to the ones in civil war era. Guns don't go off unless something happened, now the drop safe issue was solved.
@@LIONTAMER3D Turns out I was incorrect when I mentioned it had to be dropped on the base of the magazine. However, the trigger prior to the upgrade will still fire when dropped. I just got the impact point incorrect. th-cam.com/video/ch7si_VQsGA/w-d-xo.html No need to be rude. It simply isn't necessary.
@@ryofuyumi5524 Well there are some current production guns that aren't drop safe such as the colt SAA. You're supposed to carry it with the hammer over an empty chamber. Of course that design is from the 1870s but is still in production.
I have had mine for 3 years and it has never fired by itself. The problem is with the holsters. The holsters they are using allow the edges to come up against the trigger and move the trigger when it's in the holster. When the trigger is moved, Rearward it goes off. It's supposed to. The hosters are in essence pulling the trigger.
Fake news. This must be an old story. I have been through the Sig P320 armorers course and carry it on duty. The gun has numerous safeties that prevent any unintentional firing. There was an issue years ago with the original batch of guns due to the trigger actually having too much mass, which caused it the fire if dropped at a specific angle due to inertia of the trigger causing it to move the trigger backwards (thus defeating all safeties). The trigger and the striker were then redesigned to be lighter weight, which solved that issue. The other issue had to due with Officers not carrying the P320 in a holster designed for it (carrying it in a P226 holster) or using a Blackhawk Serpa holster which are very dangerous for any handgun (trigger finger slips onto trigger when unholstering.
Another armorer disagrees with you. Is it fake news or just inconvenient that Sig released a pistol with this problem? Evidence of this issue in guns that are still in private use is widespread. Why take the chance when there are so many other options that do not have this problem? Is this why the army got them so cheap? I get it that manufacturers make duds, but the 320 has been out since 2014. Thousands were sold with this very serious issue. The firearms industry needs to stop beta testing their designs on consumers. These are not toys.
The tolerance margins appear to be incredibly small for the internal safety. It sounds like the internal safety only takes a very minimal amount of movement to be disabled, and then the gun is unsafe since there is nothing blocking the firing pin except for the sear (which only has about a half mm of bearing surface). A sharp jolt or impact could allegedly easily dislodge the firing pin from the sear at that point. According to one armourer, if the firearm is dirty, it's also entirely possible that the internal safety doesn't reset and engage as well.
I had a friend who had a Glock 22 Gen 4, and you could play football with it, and it wouldn't go off. Even squeezing the trigger back it won't fire unless you pass the full pull.
I like how the armorer never tells you who certified him to work on the P320, but says that he’s specifically a certified armorer for the P320, and he never shows you examples of these unfinished parts he’s talking about, or how any of them working together would cause the firearm to have an unintentional discharge. If you’re a certified P320 armorer then you’re perfectly capable of not only finishing the parts, but also polishing them, and articulating exactly what the problems with each part would be. That firearm has three failsafes. All three would have to literally break for it to fire without the trigger being pulled. Which brings me to the detective getting out of the car; what kind of holster was he wearing, how was he wearing it, and was it clear of any foreign objects that could’ve pressed the trigger as he moved? Police departments played this same exact game when they were switching from revolvers to Glocks.
@@mytquin7605 no, it's not; but what do you know or care? you settle when you KNOW you're going to lose in court, full stop. not that you have one clue, but the plaintiff has the burden of proof. you settle when you know with near certitude they can meet that burden. ask a grown up, "cheaper" has nothing to do with it.
@@LIONTAMER3D you should try to relax and not attack people on here with your childish insults. try having an ADULT CONVERSATION PAL. apparently you know everything so why even entertain the rest of us.
@@mytquin7605 you're effectively calling these officers liars, without evidence, so me telling you that you should be shutting your mouth merely feels like an attack; in fact, it's just the right thing to do
Funny that many police departments banned 1911's for years because they had so many reports from officers the their guns "going off by themselves" despite a manual safety and all steel construction.
@@9770G glocks aren't prefect my guy my brother bought one with a trigger and mag issue. He sent it back and got a new one. Sig and glock are good. Issue is the holster most likley
@@greatgallade they are both good but Glock is better. If I were to get a Sig, I just wouldn’t get a polymer striker fired handgun, Glock does that better. I’d go for a full metal frame handgun from Sig.
@@9770G cz makes a better gun. Hk and Walther. Even Smith. They're all equal of not better than glock. The new standards of manufacturing proves that.. But yeah stories like this puts that doubt in the mind
I am a civilian with 60 plus years of firearm handling experience. My early production P320 discharged in my bedroom in April 2021. My fingers were wrapped around the base of the grip as I lifted it off the bed to place it into a carry case (not a holster). No part of my hand was near the trigger or trigger guard. This pistol had been returned to Sig for the voluntary upgrade and had less than 100 rounds fired through it after Sig did the upgrade. I returned it to Sig the same day of the unintentional discharge. Sig returned it to me and declared that it was within specifications and needed no work done. The pistol remains in the sealed FedEx box in which it was returned to me. Sig has a mountain of attorneys prepared to fend off any and all lawsuits. It is obvious that they will take no action on this time bomb until people are killed by it. I am left with a permanent hearing loss in my left ear and tinnitus. No Sig striker fired pistols in my future.
Reading several commentaries on this subject it is notable how defensive and ready to contradict people are when hearing of stories of spurious fire from the P320 (e.g. blaming the user etc). There's a fatal flaw of the human condition where people have difficulty believing or empathazing with something that's contrary to their mental model unless they personally have experienced it. Your statement of your decades of firearms experience probably preemptively fended off some would be contradictors. But one shouldn't have to state their resume on a topic to be believed. There's enough data out there to suggest Sig has a problem, and yes, their corporate greed will fight the notion. Not too much of a stretch to make the analogy with Boeing and the 737 MAX. You're right, until a statistically significant number of people are seriously injured, nothing will be done. Sig may well be right in their message back to you that the gun was within specifications. But all that means is they have a flawed design. Being within specs to bad specs is still a problem. Sorry to hear about your experience but good that you share the story.
Between mags, holsters and night sights I've got 1k invested in this thing that I've had for 3 years and haven't carried (I carry aiwb) because of the taint surrounding its safety. It's unfortunately a range toy only. Total bummer because it shoots great, feels good in the hand and looks sweet.
I have to call BS Guns do not just go off . I have had a sig P 320 and There has to be something else involved i have been shooting 60 years and Who Trained This Guy to Work on The sig P 320 ? The only neglent Discharges i have seen were 2 .One was a Remington 700 ADL sitting in a Deer stand i pushed off the safety and the gun Fired my finger was not near the trigger But i found out someone had lightened the Trigger , i used it for years before this happened . Once i saw a Glock Shoot 3 burst again the trigger Bar had been polished ? Never does a Gun Fire By Itself lay on on the Table or sit it in a rack in the safe that gun will never Fire ? These people are not talking about Dropping it it has a mind of it's on . NOPE lawsuit's something is not adding up .
Yeah, I've seen MANY Glocks fail in ways that they fire uncommanded and/or fire many more rounds than expected... but people will argue that they're all perfectly safe, while arguing that the P320's are not. (Have seen delayed-firing, unintentional binary-trigger, unintentional full-auto and other dangerous failures with Glocks). I don't consider them to be dangerous though. There almost always has to be a reason, which is almost always caused by the owner/operator. They don't clean the gun, don't do mandatory maintenance and let parts wear out, modify parts and/or throw in aftermarket parts (without verifying their safety), etc... etc... and we don't know what happened to all these SIGs before these things happened. With several Million of them produced though, there's bound to be things like this happening. Not even Glock could get away from this.
I mean it's a fully cocked design ithe trigger bar breaks the sear can move and allow it to fall. Have you seen cutaway versions of Glock vs the sig very interesting
@@marksmith3991 If the trigger bar broke, it wouldn't go off... it just wouldn't fire. Pulling the trigger would just not release the sear. Also, if the sear and/or striker break (to release), the striker safety would stop if from firing (like a Glock, but a different design). They both have striker safeties to stop the striker from hitting the primer without the trigger being pulled.
You can call BS if ya like. But tests have been done and they had been going off with a slight jostle or a strike to the back of the slide. It just happened to this particular design. 😂 Sig even issued out a free fix for the pistol because of it.
There was a video posted here on TH-cam, a competition shooter had his sig p320 x5 go off in the holster…..I get people have their doubts (I had an x5 a while back and I LOVED it) but when there are multiple people from different backgrounds, (LEO, competition shooters, civilians etc.) coming forward the same exact issue, ESPECIALLY with sigs shotty track record with QC, it might be time to start asking some questions…..
In nearly every single case it's been proven to be the fault of the owner/operator and not the fault of the gun. Like the one lady, she put it in a modified P229 holster, which pulled the trigger 90% when the gun was holstered... which disabled the striker safety and left the striker on the very edge of the sear. The gun was never meant to be in this condition except for when the gun is being fired. Any small bump could set the gun off... and that's true for any striker fired gun in that condition. You would blame the gun/company without any actual evidence. It's just like when people called it "Glock leg", because they blamed the gun for the 100's of people that were shot by them... but in the end, it was proven to be a safe gun. People just refuse to give SIG the benefit of the doubt at all though. When the gun was unsafe, they fixed it. We also KNOW that people have a motive to blame the gun when they have negligent discharges. Like the one lady, she put the gun in an active retention holster (which lets the gun fall out when the button is pushed)... and the holstered gun was in her purse, which fell out of the holster and the trigger got pulled by something in her purse (and it is Known that you do not ever use an active retention holster in a purse). The company even warns against doing that... but she STILL tried to blame the company (and people STILL blamed the gun). As for the more recent one you're talking about. The one part was broken (by his own admission)... and we do not know what happened to the gun for that part to get broken (it is not a part that ever breaks and is unlikely to break while in use). Also, it was a Broken Gun. He was carrying a gun that he is responsible for the safety on and was carrying it broken (I doubt he function checked or safety checked it ever). We also don't know what happened to the gun before that. Was it dropped and/or broken in some specific way? Was it disassembles and reassembled wrong? Was it modified? We don't know. (One guy put an aftermarket trigger in his and the trigger pin on the side backed out, causing it to get hung up on the holster, which caused the gun to fire when he pushed it into the holster to reholster it. Of course, he wanted to blame the gun/SIG for that too.) Hope you forgive the long rant. Have done a lot of research on this and haven't found any evidence that they're any more dangerous than any other gun. I know of far more Glocks that had "uncommanded" and/or unexpected firing, but nobody considers Glocks to be unsafe (despite all the lawsuits). People do it with SIG though.
@@deucedeuce1572 if you have a FB I highly recommend you look at “that sling guy who gives excessively detailed gun advice” he did a long, thorough report on the issues it has and why they’re generally unsafe. He also addresses the Glock case and why they’re not the same. And yes……He also actually sites all the resources and has pictures to back everything up. I’d post the report here but honestly it’s so long I don’t think it would fit tbh. One big problem it has that he brings up is the absence of the trigger inertia safety, combined with a fully charged striker, ALOT of these issues could have been avoided had sig put an inertia safety on their guns like EVERY OTHER manufacturer (almost like they’re there for a reason and it’s industry standard right?) but also regarding the gunghis khan video, even if it was just a broken part, having a crucial piece like that, that can be the difference between a safe and unsafe gun be broken on a $1000 (since it was an X5) pistol says something about sigs quality control. Again, I had the same gun a while back but I’ve recently reconsidered getting a new p320 x5 until sig actually comes forward and addresses some of these problems.
@@CREATEDBYDUSTINTODUSTYOURETURN apparently not because there’s like 20 new law suits for the gun going off in the holster….some of them with video evidence
I've never had a problem with the P320...Since this problem why has our military gone with the M17 (full size p320) and the Marine Corps with the M18 (compact P320)....Other agencies such as Chicago, Virginia State Police...Texas State Troopers....Tampa Police etc. have adopted the P320 as their go to side arm...
It's reportedly all P320's... even those with manual safeties. It appears that the vast majority of them have been proven to be the fault of the owner/operator. They almost always caused the guns to go off in one way or another. (like having the gun stored in the wrong kind of holster or wrong model holster altogether.)
@@thesqaanalyst The right type of holster is one that's actually made for the correct gun... and one that's designed for the purpose you are using it for. Serpa makes holsters with "Active Retention" holsters that release the gun when you push a button (and have no passive retention)... and they are very clear to not use these kinds of holsters in a purse, because hitting the button on accident will allow the gun to fall out and will then be susceptible to something pulling its trigger. The one lady that sued SIG put her P320 in a P229 holster that she modified for her P320 to fit in... and in doing that, she accidentally made the kydex pull the trigger of the gun 90% every time it's inserted into the holster, which disabled the striker safety and left the striker on the very edge of the sear (which would make Any striker fired gun go off when bumped or from vibrations). She blamed SIG and the gun, but it was ruled to be her own fault. If you have a gun without a safety (esp a striker fired gun or single action gun), you have to make sure that your holster covers then entire trigger guard also... so nothing can ever work its way into the trigger guard and accidentally pull the trigger. Sorry for the rant. Have studied this and handgun safety in general (and I love guns and gun mechanics, so I could go on forever if I let myself).
@@thesqaanalyst our department banned the use of a certain black hawk holster because of problems it caused with the P226. (I dont remember which holster)
I'll be concerned when this supposed condition can be duplicated under controlled conditions in front of cameras. The fact that it keeps happening to police officers makes me think it is a combination of people putting their finger on the trigger under stress, then trying to deny it later and jackets with holster straps not being used properly and getting the straps into the holster on the trigger. In the blurry video of the guy who's pistol fired in the holster, you can see he has on a jacket with a zipper and straps to secure it around a holster. The gun goes off when he pulls the jacket tight while twisting to get out of the car.
What a blatant biased hit piece. The sig is actually one of the more quality firearms manufactured today. Unless there is a bullet in the chamber and the trigger is pulled, it's not going off.
I point a P320 at my balls every day. The gun is fine until anything other than anecdotal evidence proves otherwise. The same people claiming the thing goes off by itself are also probably the same people claiming their gun shoots way low and left.
FAKE NEWS...... The female cop that this happened to needs to get a better holster! It didnt even cover the trigger and it went off in her purse when she picked it up.
@@newdefsys Because a hand is the only object that can pull a trigger? Certainly not a bad holster, or a piece of clothing caught in the holster or anything like that. And as usual, we have no indication on what caused the gun to fire (be it failure of the pistol, which can be proven with a mechanical breakdown, or a trigger pull)
@@newdefsys No, I'm saying there is a lack of any real evidence or information about what caused the "failure". I'm not saying there's any kind of "magical thing" that's causing the gun to go off. What I am suggesting is that officers are having negligent discharges and not owning up to it.
Because their guns are phenomenal. The fact that this "problem" has only happened a few times, and is unreplicatable in testing, is a testament to how well these fire arms work. Considering they are used in multiple different countries for military, and police forces, these guns are used levels of magnitude more than almost any other pistol on the market. Put another gun in its place, you would be hard pressed to not have the same outcome or much worse imo. It's simple statistics. Other hand guns didn't secure a contract with police and armed forces across the world, therefore, they have never had as many made, or used on a daily basis. I have two p320, never fired without me pulling the trigger.
It is important to note, the P320 stopped having lawsuits about uncommanded/ unprompted firing after about the year 2017. The Gun is heavily produced and many guns throughout the years have undergone similar lawsuits and claims(Glock being one of them) . It's a shame that Sig dances around the subject so carelessly however.
@@alexm566 Similar issues. Police who put their finger on the trigger when they weren't ready to fire sued because there was no mechanical safety to prevent them from pulling the trigger. Police who carelessly let straps or laces from their jackets get into the holster and around the trigger sued because the guns fired "by themselves" when they tugged on their jackets and the straps or laces actuated the trigger.
This debate should be simple to settle: If the p320 is going off by itself, then there should be documented mechanical failures of all of the internal safety components from the specific guns in question. Until that evidence is shown I'm inclined to believe that this is just another case of an LEO trying to blame someone else for their own irresponsibility.
Expert inspects pistol. Tests pistol. Is unable to make it to fire without pulling the trigger. Declares it dangerous anyway. 40+ LEO lawsuits against Sig, yet not one has been able to make it fire in testing. This is just a way to point blame in order to protect the officer who made a mistake, or the department who used a bad holster.
@@LIONTAMER3D Just a quick google search. Why would a company settle a lawsuit? Companies often enter into a lawsuit settlement to avoid prolonged litigation, protracted attorney fees, or resolve counterclaims. Settling a lawsuit can also help prevent negative publicity or attention about your company, which can sometimes do more damage than the lawsuit itself
After studying this issue extensively, I sold all my P320s. There are just so many better options: Glock, Walther, HK, CZ, etc. Why bother. I don't think Sig has a design problem but rather a QC problem. They are constantly innovating and have way too many products in their line up and the QC has suffered. Remember the MCX issues on Gen 1 guns? Seriously, I don't really trust Sig anymore as their QC testing is done on the public. I admire their innovation, but not at the expense of QC. There's a reason Glock and HK don't really come out with much new stuff. They focus on what really matters and that's safety and QC.
@elitetrader5468 Ok, smart guy. The safety less version is still being sold and has not been pulled from the shelves. If their was a legit problem, I'm almost certain both actions would undoubtedly be implemented. Correct?
Did you ever find any solid evidence of a problem that could be confirmed upon detailed examination of the gun or made to repeat under controlled conditions?
The impact firing made me leery of the Sig however I don't put much stock in the "gun fires by itself" reports by LE. Lots of times those are cases "booger hook on the bang switch" when it shouldn't have been.
It actually has a fully cocked striker like an internal single action. Whereas Glock is partially cocked and has to have a full pull to go off much more like a double action. The sear or trigger bar breaks then boom firing pin falls with full force.
I watched The Guys at Moss Pawn & Gun the one Iraque Veteran 88 88 worked at this Female Cop Bought an HK with the paddle Mag release after them trying to teach Her for an hour that she was hitting The Mag Release Don't know if she caught on or not .Cops aren't The smartest Firearm Operators anyway .
Sorry if I don’t necessarily buy this. They fixed this inertia stuff a while back. Granted, I have the flat trigger. Never had a problem. Not one. It is a good shooter.
I’ve been carrying multiple P320s daily since the upgrade with no problems. Is the military have this many problems with the pistol? Also, so far no one has won a lawsuit against Sig on this pistol.
@@jason200912 so far in all of these incidents, they have never been able to prove that any these guns were lemons. And I don’t think that Sig has lost any of these cases yet. Sig needs to start suing these departments if they find that the fault was something other than the pistols.
@@weaponeer8582 It's only been milwaukee from way back then and recently a few youtubers in the past 2 months. One of which was able to show that their gun was firing every time he shook it.
@@weaponeer8582 here you go dude credible one, it fired once the slide is pushed forward kind of like a full auto when it's in battery: th-cam.com/video/ei90kVQhjm8/w-d-xo.html less credible one but he had it happened in a competition and says he has range witnesses at the competition th-cam.com/video/Z8XdXpZ2lEY/w-d-xo.html
I think that you should take all the pistols that are being claimed to fire without the trigger pulled, AND their holsters and try to induce the failure. Surely if that is the case and those guns are the ones who have failed in this way you should be able to replicate it. The holsters should be checked and make sure that they are actually for that pistol and not a similar one.
It's not a holster problem. Some of them fire when shaken. Some have broken sear springs which fires when shook. It's a small percentage of lemons and only seems to be 1 month old sig's where this problem happens
My P320 suffered trigger reset failures before 200 rounds of firing. Cause: the trigger bar was out of spec which can happen to any P320 both if the trigger bar was out of spec from the factory or by wear. The design is unsafe. Sig is supposedly in the process of replacing the P320 with an outright new design but we will see if that happens or if their bad business leadership continues to deny they have serious quality control issues which they favor patch fixes and keeping the money flowing in. Never had such issues with Glock pistols but even one who may not favor Glock, there are many other great options on the market now. BTW, am no Sig hater, I carried one of the original German made P226's for years and I consider that gun and those like it to be some of the finest sidearms ever made. I wish Sig still had such quality or eventually gets back to that standard.
to me the issue is a fire control unit that makes a negligent discharge regardless of the user more likely is bad its sad that sig did not investgate properly the issue
The only way a pistol can fire is if the trigger is pulled. Full stop. th-cam.com/video/VmwpkJuIR00/w-d-xo.html "It just went off by itself (that's my story and I'm stickin' to it)". Put the pistol in the holster while sitting... get a piece of clothing or a drawstring in the holster with it. When you stand up and the shirt/string pulls tight... BANG. Sig Sauer has won 27 lawsuits by showing what I said in the first sentence. I carry a P-320 every day. Everything that was said in this story is conjecture. Competition shooters fire thousands of rounds a week... in and out of the holster all day long... where are their un-commanded discharges? Where are all the civilian lawsuits against Sig Sauer for the gun "just going off by itself"? Why is it just cops? Remember when cops went from revolvers to Glocks? Does the term "Glock Leg" ring a bell? The same thing happened back then... officers having frequent negligent discharges.
A striker fire pistol should have an external safety as the only thing holding the fireing pin is the sear which can be faulty from the factory or worn with use. Strainge that the Sig P320 came out on the market let alone bought by the US miitary and law enforcement.
98% of P320's negligent discharge was from a police officers, and all were user errors. The officer getting out of the car hands full likely cause the wrong holster at worse, and the string from the in holster at Best. As for the latest, once again, an officer error gun was not holster correctly. If the p320 had such a problem with firing without a trigger, pull civilians would have more issues due to lack of training. Go to show PROTECT AND SERVE, SHOULD BE TRAIN MORE BEFORE SERVICE.
I hear You I bought a canik darkside rival and mounted a Dot ? That is my absolute Favorite Gun to shoot , I have Guns that cost 3or 4 Times as much money But the rival just Fits and it came with the best striker Fired Trigger i have ever shot no need to do anything to the Gun all i did was add a Red Dot .
Not a huge SIg fan, but I won;t assume their guns are defective without evidence just like I checked the evidence when there were all the claims abut Glocks firing by themselves 20-something years ago.
Well California just added it to The Roster so it must be safe 😂. LEs carry unsafe handguns all the time in California since they can buy and carry any gun they want to.
Either they have holsters not designed for the guns or the cops need alot more training. Every cop I have seen making these claims is grossly ignorant of firearms .
So EVERY Sig will fire on its own? I cant sit a loaded Sig on the table because it will EVENTUALLY fire on its own. Seems to me defective cars kill /hurt more people than guns. Lawyers are agents for the anti gun movement.
I Got lots of Glocks but I shoot better Guns Now Got tired of plastic Sights and MOS cut well barley a cut out Want a Glock with a Dot Have The slide Milled . Or Buy a shadow Systems .
Lie, Lie, The fiere arms NEVER SHOOT THEMSELF, THEM SHOOT IF YOU TOUCH YOUR TRIGGER, IS BASIC TRAINING, YOU FINGER NEVER CAN’T TOUCH YOU TRIGGER, SIMPLE!!!!
They keep saying the gun was in the holster or the didint touch it but every video i seen looks like the gun is in their hand or they say it was in the holster but we find out it happened while holstering ,I'm not saying all of these people are lying but the facts are 2 springs have to fail followed by a jolt for this to happen and a person will make mistakes ,and also with this being a known issue they will try to join the bandwaggon also sig does have its off days as for me i just purchased a p320 m18 a few weeks ago after giving some time for the issue to be resolved also i have never been struck by lightning so i will take my chances and even gave it a few whacks just to be sure it could take it and were off😂 and i love it👌
Sig is an amazing brand that dose make good gun but the p320 is by far the worst and most controversial handgun on the market i am too unsure about its reliability to even think about carrying one Bottom Line law enforcement should not carry the sig p320 Glock has been law enforcement’s service pistol for a long time and have little to no issues and has never fired on its own
Expert on muh nuts maybe. Let’s see the holster the guy in the video had. Please tell us the make and model of the holster. Look at the internals. There is no way for the firearm to go off un-commanded.
One more reason why I never given up my clock You can throw a Glock 19 off of a building Fully loaded And it will not Anybody wanna try that with a sig
If an officer has a negligent discharge, it can cost the officer their job. I can see why an officer might lie in situations like this in that case. But why would Sig settle these suits if they believe the guns are good? Too much hearsay from Sig fans and Sig haters, plus potentially lying officers makes this hard to find the truth.
They would settle for the same reason anyone settles; it is cheaper to give someone a little money to go away than to pay $1000 per hour lawyers to spend months taking a case to court.
A firearms instructor is not a gunsmith. He’s not an expert. Grosschick wasn’t even doing the drop test correctly. I’m more of an expert than this guy.
@@thebean8255 They do sell the Agency Arms triggers that have the "safety dongle". They're excellent triggers as well. Even without an inertial safety, it's almost impossible to get the trigger to pull from dropping the gun. (Which is why they're drop safe). The trigger being such a light weight and having the spring tension pushing back against it should stop the gun from firing if you drop it from just about any height. You'd probably have to whip one at the ground as hard as you can... and I'm not certain that would even do it. (I'd love to see someone test that). I did watch a person drop them from a balcony though (and it landed at several different angles without firing). SIG also has guns that they've dropped countless 1000s of times without them going off (and at just about every angle imaginable). If there is a way for them to drop and fire, it would very likely be a 1 in a billion weird occurrence. Forgive the rant.
ummm, it defeat the purpose. I carry my Glock 19 Gen 5 with a round in the chamber almost all the time. For someone who's trained and drawing from a holster unconcealed, it takes 2.3 sec before I can draw and fire my first shot. Imagine if you draw your weapon on a suspect who already pointed a gun at you, now you have to round a chamber, then aim, and then fire. Let's not forget the stressful situation at hand, being a gun is already pointed at me.
If the gun can't be safely carried with a round in the chamber they need to go to a different gun. Any modern autoloader should be able to be carried with a round in the chamber as long as it has a proper holster. If not the officer is unable to draw and fire with one hand which is a huge issue. They might as well be carrying a S&W Model 10 if they can't carry chambered.
@@ryofuyumi5524 In the Marines, we carried with just a mag inserted and carried the 1911 in a leather flap holster. We had to open the flap, draw, rack and put two rounds on target in 1.5 seconds. BTW, I still think its dumb not to have a round in the chamber but we didn't have that option in the Marines.
PROPAGANDA! THAT PROBLEM IS WITH PISTOLS 5 YEARS OLD (referred to as EARLY production) AND HAS SINCE BEEN RECTIFIED, 3 YEARS AGO!! still, it never should have happened, from the get-go, I'm curios what does the military have to say, they loved it because it was cheap
Remember when officers use to say Glocks fire by themselves and it turned out it was officer negligence.
Yeah I know of a department who went away from glocks for that exact reason.
Yup
Ya but the sigs actually do have this issue.
the glocks were flawed and so are these. during the investigation of the flawed glocks, officers were found to be negligent in many cases; the strikers were rotating in their housing & fired weapons on impact but glock spun the negligent officer angle to death & you fell for it. glock also knows a simple mod to the back of their slide allows the weapons to fire full auto, but won't change their design to prevent this.
@@LIONTAMER3D tell me you don’t know much about guns without telling me you don’t know much about guns.
3:27 The two loudest sounds in the universe are a bang when you're expecting a click, and a click when you're expecting a bang.
The older version used to go off when dropped at the right angle onto the bottom of the magazine. It turned out that the trigger was a bit too heavy and carried momentum at the point of impact. They revised the trigger to take out some weight and that solved the issue. But, for this gun to go off all by itself requires several components to go horribly wrong all at the same time. I have better odds playing Mega Millions lottery.
That was my exact thought, unless something comes in contact with the trigger, a piece of clothing, maybe the gun was not properly seated in the holster, maybe it was the incorrect holster. What people is not understanding is that gun nowadays are extremely safe compare to the ones in civil war era. Guns don't go off unless something happened, now the drop safe issue was solved.
you're both clueless & should stop talking
@@LIONTAMER3D Turns out I was incorrect when I mentioned it had to be dropped on the base of the magazine. However, the trigger prior to the upgrade will still fire when dropped. I just got the impact point incorrect. th-cam.com/video/ch7si_VQsGA/w-d-xo.html
No need to be rude. It simply isn't necessary.
@@DarrenNeupert sig knows more about this than anyone & they're settling
@@ryofuyumi5524 Well there are some current production guns that aren't drop safe such as the colt SAA. You're supposed to carry it with the hammer over an empty chamber. Of course that design is from the 1870s but is still in production.
I have had mine for 3 years and it has never fired by itself. The problem is with the holsters. The holsters they are using allow the edges to come up against the trigger and move the trigger when it's in the holster. When the trigger is moved, Rearward it goes off. It's supposed to. The hosters are in essence pulling the trigger.
Not true at all
@emtguy9511 Ya it is. I've seen the tests
@@michaeljenkins2493 a Safariland isn’t pulling the trigger
@@Izak213 cops are not using safariland holsters
Fake news. This must be an old story. I have been through the Sig P320 armorers course and carry it on duty. The gun has numerous safeties that prevent any unintentional firing. There was an issue years ago with the original batch of guns due to the trigger actually having too much mass, which caused it the fire if dropped at a specific angle due to inertia of the trigger causing it to move the trigger backwards (thus defeating all safeties). The trigger and the striker were then redesigned to be lighter weight, which solved that issue. The other issue had to due with Officers not carrying the P320 in a holster designed for it (carrying it in a P226 holster) or using a Blackhawk Serpa holster which are very dangerous for any handgun (trigger finger slips onto trigger when unholstering.
Another armorer disagrees with you. Is it fake news or just inconvenient that Sig released a pistol with this problem? Evidence of this issue in guns that are still in private use is widespread. Why take the chance when there are so many other options that do not have this problem? Is this why the army got them so cheap? I get it that manufacturers make duds, but the 320 has been out since 2014. Thousands were sold with this very serious issue. The firearms industry needs to stop beta testing their designs on consumers. These are not toys.
The tolerance margins appear to be incredibly small for the internal safety. It sounds like the internal safety only takes a very minimal amount of movement to be disabled, and then the gun is unsafe since there is nothing blocking the firing pin except for the sear (which only has about a half mm of bearing surface). A sharp jolt or impact could allegedly easily dislodge the firing pin from the sear at that point. According to one armourer, if the firearm is dirty, it's also entirely possible that the internal safety doesn't reset and engage as well.
I agree. I carry mine appendix with a round in the chamber and I have absolutely no problem or worries
Absolutely!!!!!
I had a friend who had a Glock 22 Gen 4, and you could play football with it, and it wouldn't go off. Even squeezing the trigger back it won't fire unless you pass the full pull.
Cool story bro
@@mattysee24 that's what your momma said last night you cretinous basement dweller. 🤣
yet there were still lawsuits when police officers were negligent then blamed the gun.
They said the same thing about Glock. Yet most ALL LEOs still carry them. 🤔
I mean if MPD would use holsters that actually designed for the P320 instead of using a Sig P226 holster, that would help drastically.
I like how the armorer never tells you who certified him to work on the P320, but says that he’s specifically a certified armorer for the P320, and he never shows you examples of these unfinished parts he’s talking about, or how any of them working together would cause the firearm to have an unintentional discharge. If you’re a certified P320 armorer then you’re perfectly capable of not only finishing the parts, but also polishing them, and articulating exactly what the problems with each part would be. That firearm has three failsafes. All three would have to literally break for it to fire without the trigger being pulled. Which brings me to the detective getting out of the car; what kind of holster was he wearing, how was he wearing it, and was it clear of any foreign objects that could’ve pressed the trigger as he moved? Police departments played this same exact game when they were switching from revolvers to Glocks.
meanwhile, sig is settling these suits; so goodbye
@@LIONTAMER3D it's always cheaper for companies being sued to just settle.
@@mytquin7605 no, it's not; but what do you know or care? you settle when you KNOW you're going to lose in court, full stop. not that you have one clue, but the plaintiff has the burden of proof. you settle when you know with near certitude they can meet that burden. ask a grown up, "cheaper" has nothing to do with it.
@@LIONTAMER3D you should try to relax and not attack people on here with your childish insults. try having an ADULT CONVERSATION PAL. apparently you know everything so why even entertain the rest of us.
@@mytquin7605 you're effectively calling these officers liars, without evidence, so me telling you that you should be shutting your mouth merely feels like an attack; in fact, it's just the right thing to do
isnt this the case where the officer was using a P226 holster for his P320?
And that folks is why i love the external safety catch....... and metal guns.
Funny that many police departments banned 1911's for years because they had so many reports from officers the their guns "going off by themselves" despite a manual safety and all steel construction.
Watching this as I have my p320 m17 on my hip 😂
I'm assuming it still hasn't just gone off?
@@deucedeuce1572 lol not at all, it’s on my hip at this very moment. I carry it every day.
Should be safe since your model has thumb safety
Media hit piece and so called expert cop with missing teeth talking nonsense.
Oh we found the sig fan boy 🤣. Just buy a Glock and u won’t have this issue 👍🏻
@@9770G I got your momma off and I never even inserted the full magazine.
@@9770G glocks aren't prefect my guy my brother bought one with a trigger and mag issue. He sent it back and got a new one.
Sig and glock are good. Issue is the holster most likley
@@greatgallade they are both good but Glock is better. If I were to get a Sig, I just wouldn’t get a polymer striker fired handgun, Glock does that better. I’d go for a full metal frame handgun from Sig.
@@9770G cz makes a better gun. Hk and Walther. Even Smith. They're all equal of not better than glock. The new standards of manufacturing proves that.. But yeah stories like this puts that doubt in the mind
I am a civilian with 60 plus years of firearm handling experience. My early production P320 discharged in my bedroom in April 2021. My fingers were wrapped around the base of the grip as I lifted it off the bed to place it into a carry case (not a holster). No part of my hand was near the trigger or trigger guard. This pistol had been returned to Sig for the voluntary upgrade and had less than 100 rounds fired through it after Sig did the upgrade. I returned it to Sig the same day of the unintentional discharge. Sig returned it to me and declared that it was within specifications and needed no work done. The pistol remains in the sealed FedEx box in which it was returned to me. Sig has a mountain of attorneys prepared to fend off any and all lawsuits. It is obvious that they will take no action on this time bomb until people are killed by it. I am left with a permanent hearing loss in my left ear and tinnitus. No Sig striker fired pistols in my future.
Classic sigs for me. Proven safe reliable.
@@tacticalbt1023 Hammer fired, German made P225, P226, P228. Heavy and lower capacity, but much safer.
Reading several commentaries on this subject it is notable how defensive and ready to contradict people are when hearing of stories of spurious fire from the P320 (e.g. blaming the user etc). There's a fatal flaw of the human condition where people have difficulty believing or empathazing with something that's contrary to their mental model unless they personally have experienced it. Your statement of your decades of firearms experience probably preemptively fended off some would be contradictors. But one shouldn't have to state their resume on a topic to be believed. There's enough data out there to suggest Sig has a problem, and yes, their corporate greed will fight the notion. Not too much of a stretch to make the analogy with Boeing and the 737 MAX. You're right, until a statistically significant number of people are seriously injured, nothing will be done. Sig may well be right in their message back to you that the gun was within specifications. But all that means is they have a flawed design. Being within specs to bad specs is still a problem. Sorry to hear about your experience but good that you share the story.
@@vikramgupta2326 I appreciate your well thought out and intelligently presented reply. So happy to know that some folks understand the issue.
Between mags, holsters and night sights I've got 1k invested in this thing that I've had for 3 years and haven't carried (I carry aiwb) because of the taint surrounding its safety. It's unfortunately a range toy only. Total bummer because it shoots great, feels good in the hand and looks sweet.
I have to call BS Guns do not just go off . I have had a sig P 320 and There has to be something else involved i have been shooting 60 years and Who Trained This Guy to Work on The sig P 320 ? The only neglent Discharges i have seen were 2 .One was a Remington 700 ADL sitting in a Deer stand i pushed off the safety and the gun Fired my finger was not near the trigger But i found out someone had lightened the Trigger , i used it for years before this happened . Once i saw a Glock Shoot 3 burst again the trigger Bar had been polished ? Never does a Gun Fire By Itself lay on on the Table or sit it in a rack in the safe that gun will never Fire ? These people are not talking about Dropping it it has a mind of it's on . NOPE lawsuit's something is not adding up .
Yeah, I've seen MANY Glocks fail in ways that they fire uncommanded and/or fire many more rounds than expected... but people will argue that they're all perfectly safe, while arguing that the P320's are not. (Have seen delayed-firing, unintentional binary-trigger, unintentional full-auto and other dangerous failures with Glocks). I don't consider them to be dangerous though. There almost always has to be a reason, which is almost always caused by the owner/operator. They don't clean the gun, don't do mandatory maintenance and let parts wear out, modify parts and/or throw in aftermarket parts (without verifying their safety), etc... etc... and we don't know what happened to all these SIGs before these things happened. With several Million of them produced though, there's bound to be things like this happening. Not even Glock could get away from this.
I mean it's a fully cocked design ithe trigger bar breaks the sear can move and allow it to fall. Have you seen cutaway versions of Glock vs the sig very interesting
@@marksmith3991 If the trigger bar broke, it wouldn't go off... it just wouldn't fire. Pulling the trigger would just not release the sear.
Also, if the sear and/or striker break (to release), the striker safety would stop if from firing (like a Glock, but a different design). They both have striker safeties to stop the striker from hitting the primer without the trigger being pulled.
You can call BS if ya like. But tests have been done and they had been going off with a slight jostle or a strike to the back of the slide. It just happened to this particular design. 😂 Sig even issued out a free fix for the pistol because of it.
@@JamezGrimm Yes Years ago Keep up with the times ?I own several .
There was a video posted here on TH-cam, a competition shooter had his sig p320 x5 go off in the holster…..I get people have their doubts (I had an x5 a while back and I LOVED it) but when there are multiple people from different backgrounds, (LEO, competition shooters, civilians etc.) coming forward the same exact issue, ESPECIALLY with sigs shotty track record with QC, it might be time to start asking some questions…..
In nearly every single case it's been proven to be the fault of the owner/operator and not the fault of the gun. Like the one lady, she put it in a modified P229 holster, which pulled the trigger 90% when the gun was holstered... which disabled the striker safety and left the striker on the very edge of the sear. The gun was never meant to be in this condition except for when the gun is being fired. Any small bump could set the gun off... and that's true for any striker fired gun in that condition. You would blame the gun/company without any actual evidence.
It's just like when people called it "Glock leg", because they blamed the gun for the 100's of people that were shot by them... but in the end, it was proven to be a safe gun. People just refuse to give SIG the benefit of the doubt at all though. When the gun was unsafe, they fixed it. We also KNOW that people have a motive to blame the gun when they have negligent discharges. Like the one lady, she put the gun in an active retention holster (which lets the gun fall out when the button is pushed)... and the holstered gun was in her purse, which fell out of the holster and the trigger got pulled by something in her purse (and it is Known that you do not ever use an active retention holster in a purse). The company even warns against doing that... but she STILL tried to blame the company (and people STILL blamed the gun).
As for the more recent one you're talking about. The one part was broken (by his own admission)... and we do not know what happened to the gun for that part to get broken (it is not a part that ever breaks and is unlikely to break while in use). Also, it was a Broken Gun. He was carrying a gun that he is responsible for the safety on and was carrying it broken (I doubt he function checked or safety checked it ever). We also don't know what happened to the gun before that. Was it dropped and/or broken in some specific way? Was it disassembles and reassembled wrong? Was it modified? We don't know. (One guy put an aftermarket trigger in his and the trigger pin on the side backed out, causing it to get hung up on the holster, which caused the gun to fire when he pushed it into the holster to reholster it. Of course, he wanted to blame the gun/SIG for that too.)
Hope you forgive the long rant. Have done a lot of research on this and haven't found any evidence that they're any more dangerous than any other gun. I know of far more Glocks that had "uncommanded" and/or unexpected firing, but nobody considers Glocks to be unsafe (despite all the lawsuits). People do it with SIG though.
@@deucedeuce1572 if you have a FB I highly recommend you look at “that sling guy who gives excessively detailed gun advice” he did a long, thorough report on the issues it has and why they’re generally unsafe. He also addresses the Glock case and why they’re not the same. And yes……He also actually sites all the resources and has pictures to back everything up. I’d post the report here but honestly it’s so long I don’t think it would fit tbh. One big problem it has that he brings up is the absence of the trigger inertia safety, combined with a fully charged striker, ALOT of these issues could have been avoided had sig put an inertia safety on their guns like EVERY OTHER manufacturer (almost like they’re there for a reason and it’s industry standard right?) but also regarding the gunghis khan video, even if it was just a broken part, having a crucial piece like that, that can be the difference between a safe and unsafe gun be broken on a $1000 (since it was an X5) pistol says something about sigs quality control. Again, I had the same gun a while back but I’ve recently reconsidered getting a new p320 x5 until sig actually comes forward and addresses some of these problems.
The incident took place on 2019.
@@noahnewcomer5180 p320s trigger inertia issues were fixed already
@@CREATEDBYDUSTINTODUSTYOURETURN apparently not because there’s like 20 new law suits for the gun going off in the holster….some of them with video evidence
One gun brand I will never own.
I've never had a problem with the P320...Since this problem why has our military gone with the M17 (full size p320) and the Marine Corps with the M18 (compact P320)....Other agencies such as Chicago, Virginia State Police...Texas State Troopers....Tampa Police etc. have adopted the P320 as their go to side arm...
Why did they even adopt it when they still got tons of Glocks.
This is absolutely crazy
"... correct cahin of events..."? Like when something puts pressure on the trigger? Like a finger? Has it ever gone off in the holster?
Is there a specific model that is affecting the P320 pistols?
It's reportedly all P320's... even those with manual safeties. It appears that the vast majority of them have been proven to be the fault of the owner/operator. They almost always caused the guns to go off in one way or another. (like having the gun stored in the wrong kind of holster or wrong model holster altogether.)
@@deucedeuce1572 Makes you wonder what is considered the "right type" of holster?
@@thesqaanalyst The right type of holster is one that's actually made for the correct gun... and one that's designed for the purpose you are using it for.
Serpa makes holsters with "Active Retention" holsters that release the gun when you push a button (and have no passive retention)... and they are very clear to not use these kinds of holsters in a purse, because hitting the button on accident will allow the gun to fall out and will then be susceptible to something pulling its trigger.
The one lady that sued SIG put her P320 in a P229 holster that she modified for her P320 to fit in... and in doing that, she accidentally made the kydex pull the trigger of the gun 90% every time it's inserted into the holster, which disabled the striker safety and left the striker on the very edge of the sear (which would make Any striker fired gun go off when bumped or from vibrations). She blamed SIG and the gun, but it was ruled to be her own fault.
If you have a gun without a safety (esp a striker fired gun or single action gun), you have to make sure that your holster covers then entire trigger guard also... so nothing can ever work its way into the trigger guard and accidentally pull the trigger.
Sorry for the rant. Have studied this and handgun safety in general (and I love guns and gun mechanics, so I could go on forever if I let myself).
@@thesqaanalyst our department banned the use of a certain black hawk holster because of problems it caused with the P226. (I dont remember which holster)
I'll be concerned when this supposed condition can be duplicated under controlled conditions in front of cameras. The fact that it keeps happening to police officers makes me think it is a combination of people putting their finger on the trigger under stress, then trying to deny it later and jackets with holster straps not being used properly and getting the straps into the holster on the trigger. In the blurry video of the guy who's pistol fired in the holster, you can see he has on a jacket with a zipper and straps to secure it around a holster. The gun goes off when he pulls the jacket tight while twisting to get out of the car.
Beretta is the best now and forever
What a blatant biased hit piece. The sig is actually one of the more quality firearms manufactured today. Unless there is a bullet in the chamber and the trigger is pulled, it's not going off.
This same thing happened with Glocks in the 90s/early 2000s, #1 demographic were cops.
I remember that
If your p320 has a safety disregard this story. You're safe...
I point a P320 at my balls every day. The gun is fine until anything other than anecdotal evidence proves otherwise. The same people claiming the thing goes off by itself are also probably the same people claiming their gun shoots way low and left.
FAKE NEWS...... The female cop that this happened to needs to get a better holster! It didnt even cover the trigger and it went off in her purse when she picked it up.
There are 50 reports. That one was just a crappy one and is the worst example
Unless a weapon is cocked it will not fire on its own!
The P320 is in a cocked position when it's chambered. (Double action striker fire). That being said, it still won't go off without a trigger pull.
@@justanothergunguy7146 I guess that officer in the video pulled the trigger with his third hand, huh ?
@@newdefsys Because a hand is the only object that can pull a trigger? Certainly not a bad holster, or a piece of clothing caught in the holster or anything like that. And as usual, we have no indication on what caused the gun to fire (be it failure of the pistol, which can be proven with a mechanical breakdown, or a trigger pull)
@@justanothergunguy7146 Are you blaming holster goblins now ?
@@newdefsys No, I'm saying there is a lack of any real evidence or information about what caused the "failure". I'm not saying there's any kind of "magical thing" that's causing the gun to go off. What I am suggesting is that officers are having negligent discharges and not owning up to it.
Makes you wonder how Sig secured the contract with the military. Not just in the USA, but Canada and Australia.
Because their guns are phenomenal. The fact that this "problem" has only happened a few times, and is unreplicatable in testing, is a testament to how well these fire arms work. Considering they are used in multiple different countries for military, and police forces, these guns are used levels of magnitude more than almost any other pistol on the market. Put another gun in its place, you would be hard pressed to not have the same outcome or much worse imo. It's simple statistics. Other hand guns didn't secure a contract with police and armed forces across the world, therefore, they have never had as many made, or used on a daily basis. I have two p320, never fired without me pulling the trigger.
The military had a requirement that every Gun had an external safety , migght be some of the reason .
@@gentrydebbie1040 Possibly. I also wonder if the old saying applies, about anything used by the government was made by the lowest bidder.
$175 each I think while Glock offered $280 per pistol
It's strange how all of these NDs happen with the gun either in the holster or actively being holstered. Yep, very strange.
what do you mean? guns are in holsters most of the time.
@@alexm566 Yes, and cars are parked most of the time. Yet they don't crash into other cars while parked.
It is important to note, the P320 stopped having lawsuits about uncommanded/ unprompted firing after about the year 2017. The Gun is heavily produced and many guns throughout the years have undergone similar lawsuits and claims(Glock being one of them) . It's a shame that Sig dances around the subject so carelessly however.
wait, what cases Glock had?
@@alexm566 gen4"s had some problems at first. google it
@@alexm566 Similar issues. Police who put their finger on the trigger when they weren't ready to fire sued because there was no mechanical safety to prevent them from pulling the trigger. Police who carelessly let straps or laces from their jackets get into the holster and around the trigger sued because the guns fired "by themselves" when they tugged on their jackets and the straps or laces actuated the trigger.
I have the new improved one and is definitely safe not only thay fixed the so-called problem thay implemented a extra safety which is a pedestrian
This debate should be simple to settle: If the p320 is going off by itself, then there should be documented mechanical failures of all of the internal safety components from the specific guns in question.
Until that evidence is shown I'm inclined to believe that this is just another case of an LEO trying to blame someone else for their own irresponsibility.
Glocks don’t have this issue 😂👍🏻
...and neither do SIGs. Ever hear of "Glock leg"?
@@deucedeuce1572 ever heard dont drop the soap? More like don’t drop the Sig 🤣
Neither does sig after they Fixed the problem several Years Back .
If MPD had used the correct holsters this wouldn't have been an issue.
Expert inspects pistol. Tests pistol. Is unable to make it to fire without pulling the trigger. Declares it dangerous anyway.
40+ LEO lawsuits against Sig, yet not one has been able to make it fire in testing.
This is just a way to point blame in order to protect the officer who made a mistake, or the department who used a bad holster.
yeah, but sig is settling so you don't have a clue
@@LIONTAMER3D is that all you have? Saying no one has a clue, no one is right except you?
@@markmiela3937 do you comprehend what it means to settle a lawsuit?
@@LIONTAMER3D Just a quick google search. Why would a company settle a lawsuit?
Companies often enter into a lawsuit settlement to avoid prolonged litigation, protracted attorney fees, or resolve counterclaims. Settling a lawsuit can also help prevent negative publicity or attention about your company, which can sometimes do more damage than the lawsuit itself
@@letsgoBrandon2024 ask a grownup what it means
After studying this issue extensively, I sold all my P320s. There are just so many better options: Glock, Walther, HK, CZ, etc. Why bother. I don't think Sig has a design problem but rather a QC problem. They are constantly innovating and have way too many products in their line up and the QC has suffered. Remember the MCX issues on Gen 1 guns? Seriously, I don't really trust Sig anymore as their QC testing is done on the public. I admire their innovation, but not at the expense of QC. There's a reason Glock and HK don't really come out with much new stuff. They focus on what really matters and that's safety and QC.
Glock is definitely not a better option. Glocks are just awful in so many ways.
The military would probably beg to differ.
@@cilvabakape763 Military version is different because it has a manual safety. Apples/oranges.
@elitetrader5468
Ok, smart guy. The safety less version is still being sold and has not been pulled from the shelves. If their was a legit problem, I'm almost certain both actions would undoubtedly be implemented. Correct?
Did you ever find any solid evidence of a problem that could be confirmed upon detailed examination of the gun or made to repeat under controlled conditions?
The impact firing made me leery of the Sig however I don't put much stock in the "gun fires by itself" reports by LE. Lots of times those are cases "booger hook on the bang switch" when it shouldn't have been.
It actually has a fully cocked striker like an internal single action. Whereas Glock is partially cocked and has to have a full pull to go off much more like a double action. The sear or trigger bar breaks then boom firing pin falls with full force.
Dude it literally goes off on video hands free. Brainwashed sigbot
I watched The Guys at Moss Pawn & Gun the one Iraque Veteran 88 88 worked at this Female Cop Bought an HK with the paddle Mag release after them trying to teach Her for an hour that she was hitting The Mag Release Don't know if she caught on or not .Cops aren't The smartest Firearm Operators anyway .
@@marksmith3991 Put a big solid steel trigger shoe without the blocking tab into a Glock and you'll see the same issues.
Sorry if I don’t necessarily buy this. They fixed this inertia stuff a while back. Granted, I have the flat trigger. Never had a problem. Not one. It is a good shooter.
The actual problem is that the city of Milwaukee hired an idiot and then gave him a pistol.
I’ve been carrying multiple P320s daily since the upgrade with no problems. Is the military have this many problems with the pistol? Also, so far no one has won a lawsuit against Sig on this pistol.
It's a small percentage of lemons and the self firing reports are all instantaneous from last month so it might be a bad batch.
@@jason200912 so far in all of these incidents, they have never been able to prove that any these guns were lemons. And I don’t think that Sig has lost any of these cases yet. Sig needs to start suing these departments if they find that the fault was something other than the pistols.
@@weaponeer8582 It's only been milwaukee from way back then and recently a few youtubers in the past 2 months. One of which was able to show that their gun was firing every time he shook it.
@@jason200912 you have video on that? Don’t believe it. I need receipts.
@@weaponeer8582 here you go dude
credible one, it fired once the slide is pushed forward kind of like a full auto when it's in battery: th-cam.com/video/ei90kVQhjm8/w-d-xo.html
less credible one but he had it happened in a competition and says he has range witnesses at the competition
th-cam.com/video/Z8XdXpZ2lEY/w-d-xo.html
I think that you should take all the pistols that are being claimed to fire without the trigger pulled, AND their holsters and try to induce the failure. Surely if that is the case and those guns are the ones who have failed in this way you should be able to replicate it. The holsters should be checked and make sure that they are actually for that pistol and not a similar one.
It's not a holster problem. Some of them fire when shaken. Some have broken sear springs which fires when shook. It's a small percentage of lemons and only seems to be 1 month old sig's where this problem happens
@@jason200912 Can you point us to any actual evidence of this?
My P320 suffered trigger reset failures before 200 rounds of firing. Cause: the trigger bar was out of spec which can happen to any P320 both if the trigger bar was out of spec from the factory or by wear. The design is unsafe. Sig is supposedly in the process of replacing the P320 with an outright new design but we will see if that happens or if their bad business leadership continues to deny they have serious quality control issues which they favor patch fixes and keeping the money flowing in. Never had such issues with Glock pistols but even one who may not favor Glock, there are many other great options on the market now. BTW, am no Sig hater, I carried one of the original German made P226's for years and I consider that gun and those like it to be some of the finest sidearms ever made. I wish Sig still had such quality or eventually gets back to that standard.
Anything built from molded plastic and stamped parts has got to be good.
What I just paid over 700 dollars on a sig p320 m17 . Now afraid to own it , I guess I'm out almost 800 dollars
i *JUST* got off the phone with Sig. they say they have conducted _dozens_ of tests and find *NOTHING WRONG.*
on the firearms that were claimed to have the issues? or just random ones they had?
@@EdBate , unknown. maybe you could call & ask.
If I can't sue cops then cops can't sue
You can sue cops, it happens every day.
to me the issue is a fire control unit that makes a negligent discharge regardless of the user more likely is bad its sad that sig did not investgate properly the issue
The only way a pistol can fire is if the trigger is pulled. Full stop.
th-cam.com/video/VmwpkJuIR00/w-d-xo.html
"It just went off by itself (that's my story and I'm stickin' to it)".
Put the pistol in the holster while sitting... get a piece of clothing or a drawstring in the holster with it. When you stand up and the shirt/string pulls tight... BANG.
Sig Sauer has won 27 lawsuits by showing what I said in the first sentence.
I carry a P-320 every day. Everything that was said in this story is conjecture.
Competition shooters fire thousands of rounds a week... in and out of the holster all day long... where are their un-commanded discharges? Where are all the civilian lawsuits against Sig Sauer for the gun "just going off by itself"? Why is it just cops?
Remember when cops went from revolvers to Glocks? Does the term "Glock Leg" ring a bell? The same thing happened back then... officers having frequent negligent discharges.
A striker fire pistol should have an external safety as the only thing holding the fireing pin is the sear which can be faulty from the factory or worn with use.
Strainge that the Sig P320 came out on the market let alone bought by the US miitary and law enforcement.
I would love to see the inside of one of these pistols to see what the defects are.
So glad that lots of people are calling out the BS in this video. poor holstering causes this to happen.
Is it true that the reworked 320 can still fire when it's holster is squeezed? Or pressure is put on the sides of the holster?
The safest duty sized pistol is an XDM.
If holster design allows the holster to flex into the trigger then it could, but that's an issue with holster design.
@@jamespmullin21753 You might want to look into the issues with broken roll pins
@@redtra236 Safariland issued a bulletin and sent out retrofit parts for the 7000 series holsters for light equipped guns.
98% of P320's negligent discharge was from a police officers, and all were user errors. The officer getting out of the car hands full likely cause the wrong holster at worse, and the string from the in holster at Best. As for the latest, once again, an officer error gun was not holster correctly. If the p320 had such a problem with firing without a trigger, pull civilians would have more issues due to lack of training. Go to show PROTECT AND SERVE, SHOULD BE TRAIN MORE BEFORE SERVICE.
There are so many guns that don't have a reputation of going off all willy nilly. There's no point in using one with any uncertainty.
Are you certain about the uncertainty?
The Sig fan boys came out in droves over this one.
Too bad the 320 and 365 still have design flaw's
What is wrong with the P365? I have heard of the problems with the 320 but not the 365 aside from the firing pin issue with early models.
@@karlschauff7989 striker pin drags is still a issue but not as prelevant as well as striker spring breakage.
😂😂😂😂😂
And you are paying lots of money for the Plastic Sights still ?
@@gentrydebbie1040 at 25 -50 feet my aim is just fine with those fancy plastic sights 😉
I know nobody cares but imma keep carrying mines. I shoot it better than my Glock but my canik is king when it comes to my shot placement
I hear You I bought a canik darkside rival and mounted a Dot ? That is my absolute Favorite Gun to shoot , I have Guns that cost 3or 4 Times as much money But the rival just Fits and it came with the best striker Fired Trigger i have ever shot no need to do anything to the Gun all i did was add a Red Dot .
There making something out of nothing. Yet the entire US Armed Forces uses Sig.
The military version has an external safety
@@jjjlll7477 so does the cops dude. Safety comes from many models.
Is the holster most likley
@@jjjlll7477 The safety just keeps the trigger from being pulled. They claim the trigger wasn't pulled in these suits so a safety wouldn't matter.
I bet we’re gonna hear from all of the sig fan boys here real soon…
Yep Glocks and Sigs 1911s Springfield Colt HK CZ Walter are all junk according to TH-cam experts
Not a huge SIg fan, but I won;t assume their guns are defective without evidence just like I checked the evidence when there were all the claims abut Glocks firing by themselves 20-something years ago.
I would bet the holster MPD uses is the cause. Any striker pistol can fire if the trigger cover on the holster impinges upon it.
Not a glock, they have trigger safeties
@@mattysee24 impingements can and have overcome blade safeties.
@@mattysee24 As long as the foreign object contacts enough of the trigger to depress the tab, the gun will still fire.
there we have a new taurus 24/7 made by SIG
Temperature have anything to do with it? Also why wouldn’t you just get a Glock in the first place?
Well California just added it to The Roster so it must be safe 😂. LEs carry unsafe handguns all the time in California since they can buy and carry any gun they want to.
Either they have holsters not designed for the guns or the cops need alot more training. Every cop I have seen making these claims is grossly ignorant of firearms .
So EVERY Sig will fire on its own? I cant sit a loaded Sig on the table because it will EVENTUALLY fire on its own. Seems to me defective cars kill /hurt more people than guns. Lawyers are agents for the anti gun movement.
I'm sketch on carrying my p320. But I believe due holster and from all of the module grip change.
If you have one in the chamber then it's possible if theres design flaws, otherwise guns dont just go off to everyone who doesent know how guns work
🤣🤣🤣🤣Y'all should have stayed with the glock. 😆
I Got lots of Glocks but I shoot better Guns Now Got tired of plastic Sights and MOS cut well barley a cut out Want a Glock with a Dot Have The slide Milled . Or Buy a shadow Systems .
They sued Glock when they had NDs and didn't want to admit it too.
Lie, Lie, The fiere arms NEVER SHOOT THEMSELF, THEM SHOOT IF YOU TOUCH YOUR TRIGGER, IS BASIC TRAINING, YOU FINGER NEVER CAN’T TOUCH YOU TRIGGER, SIMPLE!!!!
sound like cops got Neglegent discharges...
5:05 Dude looks like Squidward
The problem here is stupid police and feds playing with their guns and not practice the safe measures.
This is nonsense. Those cops are lying.
Omg yall need to fixed that problem
They keep saying the gun was in the holster or the didint touch it but every video i seen looks like the gun is in their hand or they say it was in the holster but we find out it happened while holstering ,I'm not saying all of these people are lying but the facts are 2 springs have to fail followed by a jolt for this to happen and a person will make mistakes ,and also with this being a known issue they will try to join the bandwaggon also sig does have its off days as for me i just purchased a p320 m18 a few weeks ago after giving some time for the issue to be resolved also i have never been struck by lightning so i will take my chances and even gave it a few whacks just to be sure it could take it and were off😂 and i love it👌
Sig is an amazing brand that dose make good gun but the p320 is by far the worst and most controversial handgun on the market i am too unsure about its reliability to even think about carrying one
Bottom Line law enforcement should not carry the sig p320 Glock has been law enforcement’s service pistol for a long time and have little to no issues and has never fired on its own
Sponsored by glock
Lol had mine since 2016 no discharge the Milwaukee police department need better firearm training also probably wasn't using the proper holster
They need either new guns or new officers. Either way, this is a mess
Expert on muh nuts maybe.
Let’s see the holster the guy in the video had. Please tell us the make and model of the holster.
Look at the internals. There is no way for the firearm to go off un-commanded.
colt 1911 doesn't do this! trust me buy a colt 1911a1 or if you need higher capacity the 2011..it cant be beat!
One more reason why I never given up my clock You can throw a Glock 19 off of a building Fully loaded And it will not Anybody wanna try that with a sig
Yeah I passed on a glock for my p320 😂
Nahhhh.... they should keep umm
If an officer has a negligent discharge, it can cost the officer their job. I can see why an officer might lie in situations like this in that case. But why would Sig settle these suits if they believe the guns are good? Too much hearsay from Sig fans and Sig haters, plus potentially lying officers makes this hard to find the truth.
They would settle for the same reason anyone settles; it is cheaper to give someone a little money to go away than to pay $1000 per hour lawyers to spend months taking a case to court.
Safeties are for wimps! Go Sig
A firearms instructor is not a gunsmith. He’s not an expert. Grosschick wasn’t even doing the drop test correctly. I’m more of an expert than this guy.
New guns is needed point blank
Well if yall take it seriously why they haven't changed them out
money?
His Gun fired💥 a "Round" because He had a "Round" in the "Chamber" and the "Slide" Cauked back..That's an Easy Way for Your Gun to GO OFF 💥.
Go with M&P
There was a voluntary recall that should have been done this is an old issue that has already been fixed
There is still no inertial saftey on any P320. Using a striker fired handgun with no trigger saftey is extremely negligent.
Has NOT been fixed.
@@thebean8255 They do sell the Agency Arms triggers that have the "safety dongle". They're excellent triggers as well. Even without an inertial safety, it's almost impossible to get the trigger to pull from dropping the gun. (Which is why they're drop safe). The trigger being such a light weight and having the spring tension pushing back against it should stop the gun from firing if you drop it from just about any height. You'd probably have to whip one at the ground as hard as you can... and I'm not certain that would even do it. (I'd love to see someone test that). I did watch a person drop them from a balcony though (and it landed at several different angles without firing). SIG also has guns that they've dropped countless 1000s of times without them going off (and at just about every angle imaginable). If there is a way for them to drop and fire, it would very likely be a 1 in a billion weird occurrence. Forgive the rant.
I have a 320 and will not carry it.
Nonsense reporting.
Is the gun loaded with a round in the chamber? How about without a bullet in the chamber but still a full magazine in the gun?
A gun can't fire without a bullet in the chamber.
ummm, it defeat the purpose. I carry my Glock 19 Gen 5 with a round in the chamber almost all the time. For someone who's trained and drawing from a holster unconcealed, it takes 2.3 sec before I can draw and fire my first shot. Imagine if you draw your weapon on a suspect who already pointed a gun at you, now you have to round a chamber, then aim, and then fire. Let's not forget the stressful situation at hand, being a gun is already pointed at me.
A new sequel to lethal weapon .
If the gun can't be safely carried with a round in the chamber they need to go to a different gun. Any modern autoloader should be able to be carried with a round in the chamber as long as it has a proper holster. If not the officer is unable to draw and fire with one hand which is a huge issue. They might as well be carrying a S&W Model 10 if they can't carry chambered.
@@ryofuyumi5524 In the Marines, we carried with just a mag inserted and carried the 1911 in a leather flap holster. We had to open the flap, draw, rack and put two rounds on target in 1.5 seconds. BTW, I still think its dumb not to have a round in the chamber but we didn't have that option in the Marines.
I am skeptical of most of this report.
PROPAGANDA! THAT PROBLEM IS WITH PISTOLS 5 YEARS OLD (referred to as EARLY production) AND HAS SINCE BEEN RECTIFIED, 3 YEARS AGO!! still, it never should have happened, from the get-go, I'm curios what does the military have to say, they loved it because it was cheap
Need to go back to the Glock 17 and get it over with.
Omg sweet Jesus
Just do the right thing