Threaded brass heat set M3 and M4 inserts can remedy some of your fastener woes, both in printed plastic parts and oem parts. I designed a mid motor standup gear both for a mid rustler. I put ears on the transcase like the old rpm version. The front arm mount holes have brass inserts with a short screw. The rear arm mount holes are close clearance drilled and a long screw passes through to the trans case ear which has a threaded insert. This locks the case and the arm mounts together. My trans case has a feature like the nitro rustler trans that locks into a nitro rear bulk for camber link mounts, also modified with threaded inserts to help pull everything together.
I love what you have done! Even more now that you made it public, that is beyond cool! There seems to be lots of upgrades you could do with your mm bandit like front roll bar, carbon top deck, aluminum hubs with a few holes for tuning, ti links, etc. which front a-arms are those? Almost look like protrac. I have a few modded bandits if you would like to see. I don’t have a printer, but if I ever do I would love to try building those parts. Way to go and thank you for sharing again. Synnergy
Thanks for the kind words! The front a-arms are the Traxxas HD arms for the Bandit. They're supposed to be tougher, but I have them because they let me use the aluminum caster blocks I had from my Traxxas trucks.
*1.* Do you have 3-gear and 4-gear options for low/high inertia (basically allowing the motor to turn same direction or counter direction to the wheels)? *2.* Have you considered a rear motor but with the battery placed where the speed controller is, the speed control between shock towers? The idea is to get the CG the same as a mid-engine, but have more inertial mass on the back to assist rotation since car handling (simplified) is based on rotating about the NON steering axle, and having leverage on both sides of said axle will improve it. *3.* Have you ever heard of a De-Dion axle? If not, look into it. It's a sort of in-between of solid axle and IRS and I think it could both drastically simplify rear suspension geometry tuning and even give you a bunch of rear grip, particularly if paired with a Satchell Link and if you have static camber and toe shimming built into the axle. Even crazier would be adding a camber link and lower hub pivot to facilitate that. Just be sure that if it's a plain camber link you angle it down toward the chassis so you get the camber gain leaning INTO the turn on BOTH sides during body roll for max grip.
I have a 3 gear standup and a 3 gear laydown trans design. I've never liked the feel of a 4 gear trans, and I see no point in doing rear motor since the car comes stock with a rear motor setup. Plus I'll never go back to rear motor. I've always found mid motor to drive better in every condition, including low grip. I'm not convinced implementing any kind of new suspension design would be worth the effort. There's much I still have yet to explore with weight distribution and roll centers of the current design. Are there any full size off-road race vehicles that use the design you mentioned?
@@nick_cnc No, but there are plenty of full-size that use solid axles and plenty that use IRS. A De-Dion axle is, as described, a middle ground, which I believe to be the best of both worlds. Chassis mounted diff, CV axles going to hubs that are rigidly fixed to each other via a solid tube, then that tub is attached to the chassis via your choice of solid-axle based suspension design, with my preference being the Satchell Link for its combination of simplicity and good handling qualities. It's been used to decent effect in road cars, and the reason I stan it so much is that F1 drivers in the transition era (between the no aero and ground effect period) reported that De-Dion gave better confidence and feedback while driving, and as far as the engineers were concerned, the lap times between it and IRS were the same. The reason they went with IRS was packaging with underbody aero, but that's not really a factor with RC offroad. *As for the rear motor...* fair enough I suppose, but I still hold that a rear motor setup with the same overall weight distribution as a mid-motor setup will potentially turn faster once it starts turning and have better rear grip both laterally and for acceleration. It might be slower transiently, but I think that can be fixed with driver skill, which you surely have if you're getting into the A mains. However, If I'm wrong, I have an even more fun idea; *Front engine with a belt drive.* Your choice of high inertia (motor same direction as wheels) or low inertia (motor counters the wheels), or you can try both. At that point, it might very well require the high inertia setup for more squat to plant the rear on accel due to the static weight distribution change. And *I HAVE seen an actual 1/10 buggy with a setup like this,* so that's a plus since you mentioned you care about proven ideas.
@@Drunken_Hamster I can tell you're really excited by your ideas. I'm not, and honestly I get lots of people telling me all the time what I should be doing. As well intentioned as it is (most of the time), it gets old pretty quick. My lack of interest in your ideas wouldn't do them justice if I tried so if you think they're that great I would highly encourage you to start your own project and make your vision a reality.
@@nick_cnc That's a much fairer response than I usually get, which is either being ignored or more-or-less told to F off. As soon as I DO have the means to try all this stuff either in RC, full scale, or both, I'm definitely going to.
I have a question about the carbon fiber parts. what is your process of making them and how difficult would it be. If you could link a guide that would be awesome.
For the rear camber link block, what kind or screws are you using to attach it to the transmission? If you’re not using a countersunk screw I would switch to that, the tapered head is basically a self-centering locator
They're long countersunk screws that screw in from underneath the chassis. I thought that would be enough to keep things in place but there's just enough wiggle in the fit to cause issues.
Ok I see now, maybe short term fix you could sandwich some double sided tape between the block and chassis for a little extra lateral strength? Was also wonder how you cut out the shock towers, I have a work in progress 1/10 F1 that needs some carbon cut but I’m not sure if I should invest in a small CNC or just use something like SendCutSend
@@tomahawkgt3505 tape would help, but I constantly tune with those blocks so it's not really a viable solution. I have my own CNC I built a while back and that's how I cut my CF parts. Sendcutsend is really competitively priced for aluminum parts, but they are prohibitively expensive for composites. I get it, though, composite dust is nasty and you need the right gear to deal with it. I don't have that great which is why I'm not making parts to sell.
Threaded brass heat set M3 and M4 inserts can remedy some of your fastener woes, both in printed plastic parts and oem parts. I designed a mid motor standup gear both for a mid rustler. I put ears on the transcase like the old rpm version. The front arm mount holes have brass inserts with a short screw. The rear arm mount holes are close clearance drilled and a long screw passes through to the trans case ear which has a threaded insert. This locks the case and the arm mounts together. My trans case has a feature like the nitro rustler trans that locks into a nitro rear bulk for camber link mounts, also modified with threaded inserts to help pull everything together.
so awesome thanks!!
Nice work! and plans for free is pretty righteous👍. I have had my bandit since 2009. It’s still kickin butt lol.
I love what you have done! Even more now that you made it public, that is beyond cool! There seems to be lots of upgrades you could do with your mm bandit like front roll bar, carbon top deck, aluminum hubs with a few holes for tuning, ti links, etc. which front a-arms are those? Almost look like protrac. I have a few modded bandits if you would like to see. I don’t have a printer, but if I ever do I would love to try building those parts. Way to go and thank you for sharing again. Synnergy
Thanks for the kind words!
The front a-arms are the Traxxas HD arms for the Bandit. They're supposed to be tougher, but I have them because they let me use the aluminum caster blocks I had from my Traxxas trucks.
*1.* Do you have 3-gear and 4-gear options for low/high inertia (basically allowing the motor to turn same direction or counter direction to the wheels)?
*2.* Have you considered a rear motor but with the battery placed where the speed controller is, the speed control between shock towers? The idea is to get the CG the same as a mid-engine, but have more inertial mass on the back to assist rotation since car handling (simplified) is based on rotating about the NON steering axle, and having leverage on both sides of said axle will improve it.
*3.* Have you ever heard of a De-Dion axle? If not, look into it. It's a sort of in-between of solid axle and IRS and I think it could both drastically simplify rear suspension geometry tuning and even give you a bunch of rear grip, particularly if paired with a Satchell Link and if you have static camber and toe shimming built into the axle. Even crazier would be adding a camber link and lower hub pivot to facilitate that. Just be sure that if it's a plain camber link you angle it down toward the chassis so you get the camber gain leaning INTO the turn on BOTH sides during body roll for max grip.
I have a 3 gear standup and a 3 gear laydown trans design. I've never liked the feel of a 4 gear trans, and I see no point in doing rear motor since the car comes stock with a rear motor setup. Plus I'll never go back to rear motor. I've always found mid motor to drive better in every condition, including low grip.
I'm not convinced implementing any kind of new suspension design would be worth the effort. There's much I still have yet to explore with weight distribution and roll centers of the current design. Are there any full size off-road race vehicles that use the design you mentioned?
@@nick_cnc No, but there are plenty of full-size that use solid axles and plenty that use IRS. A De-Dion axle is, as described, a middle ground, which I believe to be the best of both worlds. Chassis mounted diff, CV axles going to hubs that are rigidly fixed to each other via a solid tube, then that tub is attached to the chassis via your choice of solid-axle based suspension design, with my preference being the Satchell Link for its combination of simplicity and good handling qualities.
It's been used to decent effect in road cars, and the reason I stan it so much is that F1 drivers in the transition era (between the no aero and ground effect period) reported that De-Dion gave better confidence and feedback while driving, and as far as the engineers were concerned, the lap times between it and IRS were the same. The reason they went with IRS was packaging with underbody aero, but that's not really a factor with RC offroad.
*As for the rear motor...* fair enough I suppose, but I still hold that a rear motor setup with the same overall weight distribution as a mid-motor setup will potentially turn faster once it starts turning and have better rear grip both laterally and for acceleration. It might be slower transiently, but I think that can be fixed with driver skill, which you surely have if you're getting into the A mains.
However, If I'm wrong, I have an even more fun idea; *Front engine with a belt drive.* Your choice of high inertia (motor same direction as wheels) or low inertia (motor counters the wheels), or you can try both. At that point, it might very well require the high inertia setup for more squat to plant the rear on accel due to the static weight distribution change. And *I HAVE seen an actual 1/10 buggy with a setup like this,* so that's a plus since you mentioned you care about proven ideas.
@@Drunken_Hamster I can tell you're really excited by your ideas. I'm not, and honestly I get lots of people telling me all the time what I should be doing. As well intentioned as it is (most of the time), it gets old pretty quick. My lack of interest in your ideas wouldn't do them justice if I tried so if you think they're that great I would highly encourage you to start your own project and make your vision a reality.
@@nick_cnc That's a much fairer response than I usually get, which is either being ignored or more-or-less told to F off.
As soon as I DO have the means to try all this stuff either in RC, full scale, or both, I'm definitely going to.
Care to do a swap on a fairly new Bandit?
I have a question about the carbon fiber parts. what is your process of making them and how difficult would it be. If you could link a guide that would be awesome.
@@JosephPerito I use the CAM features in fusion 360 to create the tool paths and gcode, then run that on my CNC router.
For the rear camber link block, what kind or screws are you using to attach it to the transmission? If you’re not using a countersunk screw I would switch to that, the tapered head is basically a self-centering locator
They're long countersunk screws that screw in from underneath the chassis. I thought that would be enough to keep things in place but there's just enough wiggle in the fit to cause issues.
Ok I see now, maybe short term fix you could sandwich some double sided tape between the block and chassis for a little extra lateral strength?
Was also wonder how you cut out the shock towers, I have a work in progress 1/10 F1 that needs some carbon cut but I’m not sure if I should invest in a small CNC or just use something like SendCutSend
@@tomahawkgt3505 tape would help, but I constantly tune with those blocks so it's not really a viable solution.
I have my own CNC I built a while back and that's how I cut my CF parts. Sendcutsend is really competitively priced for aluminum parts, but they are prohibitively expensive for composites. I get it, though, composite dust is nasty and you need the right gear to deal with it. I don't have that great which is why I'm not making parts to sell.