My favorite part of 'Big American Cheeseburger Gwen' is when Big American Cheeseburger Gwen said, "Its Big American Cheeseburger time" and Big American Cheeseburger'd all over the place 💯%💲🇺🇲🇺🇸🍔
When he said "we are" twice in response to "we are supposed to be the good guys" it seemed like he was trying to convince himself that he was doing the right thing
Yeah, most villains say stuff like that to excuse their evil actions, Miguel is insane people and in general, don’t take anything edgy red and blue OC says at face value.
As Doc says in BTTF 3, “Your future hasn’t been written yet!” Because the future can’t be pre-written, it’s written with what YOU do with it, not what WILL happen. So canon events aren’t real. “Your future is whatever you make it, so make it a good one” -Doc BTTF 3
It's a cosmic trolley problem. Both side mase sense has always been the core of the trolley problem, and the very reason why it's a problem to begin with
No they didn't. Miguel's evidence is so flimsy and full of holes that it creates big writing problems, specifically character ones. The film makes Miguel so obviously wrong that most, if not all would not be convinced too follow him and let infinite people just die. Every one of them would logically demand to study the evidence for themselves, and as a result would see how glaringly bad the evidence is.
@@jeggsonvohees2201 I agree the writing for cannon events is very strange as I’d give the info the Spider Mans had they all mostly would do the opposite but honestly I understand Miguel and where’s he coming from losing his family and entire dimension that wasn’t even his but the burden of it has stayed and he can’t allow that to happened again Miguel Character also won’t give up till the Job is Done playing as him in Shattered Dimension and Edge of Time Really shows his character even if very different still holds the strong values of saving everyone
@@jeggsonvohees2201 Probably it’s when the Spider-Man become aware of this issue? Knowing that these are cannon events can help them overcome grief and accept the loss as a part of their experience, and move past it. Just standing by letting tragedy happen… this is against the core characterization of Spider-Man. When has a Spider-Man every threw up their hands and say “whelp, I guess it’s meant to be”. Indian Spiderman’s response “I can do both” is how a Spider-Man will respond to the dilemma, every time.
Another inconsistent thing I wanna point out is that the Spot, an anomaly, caused the disaster where Inspector Singh almost died (in Mumbattan). If he is not even supposed to be in that dimension, why is he causing Pav’s canon event??? Aren’t anomalies inherent disruptions of canon? This flaw in Miguel’s theory really sticks out to me here
I guess in Miguel's eyes the event itself is still a canon event even if outside anomalous forces that aren't supposed to be there cause it to happen sooner or later.
Pretty sure how the canon event happens doesn’t matter. They never said that the same exact 1-to-1 situation happens but that a specific thing happens. The death of a loved one
Miles literally told Miguel that the spot was the one that was going to kill his dad right before he asks Miguel when it’s going to happen, yet Miguel still wants to catch the spot. Why is he trying to catch him if he needs him to cause a canon event?
I just feel bad for the guy. He sees his daughter of another universe lose her father, so he steps in thinking that she wouldn't have to suffer but ends up destroying her and the entire universe. After that, he forms Spider-society to try and stop things like that from ever happening again, but then has to deal with Miles who he believes is about to make the same mistake as him. He ends up projecting all his mistakes on Miles and straight up loses it thinking another universe is about to get demolished. Of all the people who need Spider-therapy, he is one of them.
Now that you mention it, it is quite ironic that the spider-society has a designated therapist and yet Miguel seems like the type to have never visited him.
Honestly bro needs a therapist badly but since y'know nobody really has done something like he did(Atleast that we know of), it kinda feels like he is alone in this situation which makes it more sad since he practically is nearly insane by the end of the whole thing
@@thebruh2019 Not nearly is Unhinged is Insane. He's utterly illogical and wants to truly harm Miles in both mind and body. A Child. This isn't how you treat some of the worst of the worst Spider-Villains let alone ONE of your Own kind that because of your personal shite you reject.
actually if you play close attention, there are multiple spider people present during the collapse of that reality, not just Miguel and Peter B he had ALREADY formed the spider society to some extent before that happened
@@flamesofchaos13 Tbh it seems more like he wants to capture miles as atm in the movie he view miles as a bigger threat then spot, he may be pissed at miles but he clearly wants to keep miles captured until his "Canon event" happens
One thing to point out is that In into the spider-verse, miles's Peter says to Green Goblin "I can't let you open up a black hole under Brooklyn" and guess what is happening in Pav's universe, looks like a black hole to me.
Yes the dark matter holes are the collider and Spot who was empowered by the collider. It's so plainly obvious...It's incredible people have missed this certain fact. The only actual event that could be an incursion or canon event...Is Living Miguel replacing Dead Miguel. However given we don't see that full experience any conclusion is born of assumption not facts.
I saw someone talk about this on Tumblr but something interesting I'd like to mention is how a lot of the spider side-characters from the first movie have had "anomalies" in their world, but to our knowledge nothing bad has happened to those worlds at all. For instance spider noir brought the colourful rubix cube to his world which isn't supposed to have colour and Peni Parker's original mech-suit was destroyed which probably wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the events of into the spider verse. If anomalies were really so bad you'd think that these things would affect their worlds
I think the spiderverse anomalies are a lot more relaxed than TVA. It's just the core events in a comic character's life. Uncle Ben always dies, Batman always lose his parents, Krypton always gets destroyed, something like that. These things happen in some variation no matter which writer is writing the comics, at which time period, at which iteration. These are the the core events to the superheros. Other stuff doesn't matter, and different comic writer changes things around all the time.
That's a good point in the original post (the reply seems to mistake canon for anomaly). If Miguel being too long in that other Earth caused its destruction, then things that went to other Earths should too, whether it's Gwen's jumper (sweater), Tobie's trainers (sneakers), and other things mentioned, including the original body of the spider that bit Miles.
What if revealing Spider-People's identity to their respective police captains is a disruption in itself? The only one we're aware of doing that is Gwen, which resulted in the captain resigning from his role, even though there's the fact that she's his daughter.
In TAS Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man revealed his identity to Captain Stacy but he still died afterwards (and we do see his version in the movie), so sadly that's not the case. But I think the canon event is simply wrong in some way or another, we'll have to wait and see.
The way I see disruption is that all of these stories are comics. So you need to look into the comics, and see what never changes and what changes. In different Spiderman runs, he reveals his identify to different people, or not. This is not a part of his core mythos, and these disruption doesn't matter. It's up to each writer to write the story. Disruption is changing something that every writer puts into their story, no matter which comic you read, uncle Ben (in some variation) always dies. Every single comic writer write the story this way. These are connon events that doesn't change. So if you tally up all spiderman stories, the story events that happens in all of these comics are the cannon events, other stuff doesn't matter
@@seanmei6284 There was a _What If?_ comic I really liked where Ben lived and May was killed (a canon variation now). Ben figured out Peter was Spider-Man pretty quickly and on the cover got in J. Jonah Jameson's face for badmouthing Spider-Man. But he also accepted Jonah's argument about being an anonymous costumed vigilante and had Peter "come out" as Spider-Man to him.
Probably not, but it has lead to one of the funniest memes I've seen. I especially love those memes where you just hear Miguel's theme when something bad happens and it's treated as a canon event irl 😂
I honestly agree. I never trusted Miguel, and the lengths he goes to justify what he does to Miles (who according to him is an anomally and thus shouldn't even have "canon events" in the first place) really rubs me the wrong way Miguel is basically a person who while had good intentions, got corrupted by his own grief and trauma
when you talked about miguel's DNA splicing with the venom he puts in him self its actually because the real reason he performed the DNA fusion experiment on himself was to overcome his drug addiction. Before becoming Spider-Man, he was addicted to a powerful drug called Rapture that binds to the user's DNA
In addition Iirc, the corrupt company he worked for (I think Alcemex? I don’t remember specifically the name) drugged him with Rapture that’s stupidly addictive. Just a detail I said “well damn” to lmao
Im kinda late but I want to point something out. The Peter Parker from 1610 knew kingpin wanted to bring his family back using the collider. And he told him that if he did that his whole world would collapse. That sentence builds a parallel between Miguel going to another universe to be with his family and kingpin wanting to bring his family from another universe to his universe to have them again. And seeing how Miguels universe collapsed when he replaced someone in that universe confirms that Miguel replacing himself caused that universe to collapse
I’ve always had that theory that Miguel were supposed to be the uncle Ben type of figure to her. Since I believe his daughter is a gender bend version of Gabriel O’Hara, Miguel son, in the comics who also became a Spider-Man. That’s the only way I could see be a big defense on Canon events.
A theory I'm a fan of currently is that the Spot has gained either some semblance if time transcendence or gained the ability to tapped into the Web of Life and Destiny, and thus is using his newfound power to torture/dictate the lives of all Spidermen. We're shown at the end of ITSV that the Web of Life and Destiny is very much real in the multiverse, and when the Spot achieves his final form, he and Miles are shown a vision of both of them inside of it, before showing glimpses of the future. Miles gets another vision of his supposed "canon event" in the spider society, and it briefly shows him and Spot grabbing their head and doing the same pose, possibly hinting at them being connected. Moreover, in ITSV, Gwen arrives in Miles' universe after he got bit by the Earth 42 spider, but before the collider malfunctioned and brought in Peter B and the other spider gang. While it could be argued she was brought in by an earlier test, the Spot's recounting of the event implied that all tests before the collider incident were controlled, and aside from an earthquake, nobody else was brought in before it exploded. This could be a showcase that the Collider has the capability of pulling things through time as well as dimensions, which The Spot (who has the same powers) could potentially replicate as well. When the quantum hole appears in Mumbhattan, Miguel and other spiders conclude that it was because Miles disrupted Pav's "canon event"; the Spider society is also familiar with these types of things as they have had experience with trying to contain these holes before. But when the hole appears, it plays Spot's theme song, being a musical clue that he was responsible. Miles even brings it up during Miguel's explanation of canon events, but Miguel immediately brushes it off. In fact, Miguel (and other members of the society) brush off alot of Spot's involvement in the potential destruction of the multiverse, seeing him as something to clean up on the side and of less importance then ensuring Miles adheres to his canon event. So it is possible that the Spot's powers are the true cause of the multiverse being destroyed, and through some measure has gained the power to affect things through different times. Meaning he could've been the one responsible for the alternate Miguel's dimension's destruction. This might seem hard to believe for some, and it could be argued that this explanation takes away some of the mystique/ intrigue brought up by the canon event dilemma, but I think it could also work as well as tie into an important theme involved with Spiderman. As the only reason the Spot got this powerful to begin with is because Miles, Gwen, and all of the other Spiderman didn't pay enough mind to him before it was to late. They just looked the other way, or didn't treat it with enough importance as they should have. Even Miguel doesn't divert enough time to try and stop him, more so focused on what Miles is doing. And that negligence and irresponsibility is what has ultimately led to the danger of the entire multiverse. And it is the same negligence and irresponsibility that got Uncle Ben killed in the first place.
Love your theory. Pretty much tracks with mine. One small error, tho. Gwen appears a week before the collider event that drags her to Miles universe. He has not been bit yet when he first meets her (when she laughs at his "time is relative" joke.) Somehow, her Spider sense is telling her that Miles is special before he has his powers.
@@dgmilloway Thanks for the the clarification. Also, the "time is relative" joke could not only be a callback to Gwen time travelling, but also potentially be further foreshadowing to the Spot's time abilities as well.
I LOVE this theory, and I think you're right. This would be an amazing lesson for the Spiders to be more responsible, and I do think we can blame this on the Spot. He's a lot more powerful than a villain of the week after all
Since our miles was not supposed to be bitten I agree that canon events would not affect him. So the theory that his dad is supposed to die would only apply if his peter parker was supposed to lose him at some point (which would've been a great reason for our miles to further become the prowler).But since he wasn't supposed to be spider-man and that 42 miles was I think the canon event would apply to his counterpart instead as we see at the end of the movie that his dad died.
I'm split on if it's possible defend Miguel... Miguel's actions are dictated by fear, the fear of creating a nexus event/incursion/canon disruption and it revolves strictly around fear, the fear of destroying another universe without having concrete evidence to present if it was his fault or not. Taking a look at the situation from Miguel's POV he's staring at a sequence of events that have happened and with his knowledge these events are mandatory (constant.) Since they're reoccurring among every other spider-person, for other variant's he doesn't have the outcome to solidify that these events MUST happen, so he uses a program or algorithm to help dictate that these are the events that must remain intact. Honestly, this form of thinking is flawed and the ending answers are only derived from fear of the worse case scenario. Even with good intentions' it doesn't eliminate the fear of what could happen and this is why it's so difficult to find grounds providing solid evidence Miguel's in the right with this situation, the "Go Home Machine," isn't based off the spider-person but the DNA of the spider. It's creation is to send home any variant to it's respective world and something I've noticed a lack of people pointing out is the look on Rhino's face in that machine and how exactly does this algorithm know which world to send these villains to. (I'll return to this later.) The audience isn't introduced to multiple canon disruption's so it's difficult to gauge the severity until we're told by Miguel, until we're shown a world collapsing on itself, and we're left with this gut wrenching decision "is Miguel right?" Some individuals would claim, yes, he's correct in his actions because it's for the betterment of the universe, it's for the betterment to keep each spider-person and their beloved connection webbed together. Me, personally can disagree with Miguel's logic and find his actions easily dictated by fear, and the film does a great job by introducing this fear early on by giving us the scene between Gwen and her father. Gwen flees her universe due to fear, fear of how her father see's her now, fear that he will shoot her or lock her up. The fear that she's no longer daddy's little girl... Within that brief moment, that beautiful score of music, it's understandable she's searching for salvation and that salvation waits in spider-society with her newly found mentor/mother figure Jessica Drew and the brooding Miguel O'Hara. Not convinced by this "fear" statement? Example: Miles and Gwen are on the water tower conversating about all of the many adventures she's been on and Miles' asks the question how are things between her and her father, she's silent for a bit and he asked for her opinion if he should just tell his parents. Her fear of the reaction her dad gave her is instantly reflected onto Miles, he shouldn't, it's a bad idea. We all deal with fear, sometimes we even reflect our personal shortcomings' at people unknowingly because we see our pain, fear, and how we'd react if they experienced it in the same manner we had.. If they could experience a similar pain as our own for better word's. A lot of argument's held by people I've personally encountered sometimes flips to the events in Mumbattan and how Mile's saving Captain Singh was another canon disruption, I do have personal thoughts on this manner, but for the sake of argument sake. Let's say everything Miguel claims is true, the more people a spider-man or spider-woman saves the more the threads that binds spider-people together falls apart, which will lead to a singular universe unraveling upon itself. Aren't these events destined to happen rather stopped by a spider-person or not? If it's meant to happen, wouldn't it happen regardless if Miles, Gwen, Hobie, or Pavitr saves everyone. Yes! So where is the issue? F-E-A-R! The fear of what could happen, the fear of what if these events do not happen, will we lose another universe, will another variant be lost. The fear of loss, the fear of being wrong, the fear of someone else being a better fit, the fear of not being trusted. It's a key issue that's reflected on in the series multiple times over, it's the revolver with one in the chamber of a game of russian roulette we've seen the ammo but the anticipation of whose right, whose wrong it waves heavily as the story progresses. But the film shows the answer, it showed the answer several times within the film. (Miles story is blank.) this is reinforced even more when we see the multiple spider-people kneeling before a loved one, this is reinforced when we're shown the multiple deaths of Captain's and we see Gwen standing next to a blank canvas, a story that has yet to be written... I've questioned this scene multiple times because if it's meant to happen, when it's meant to happen, why... Why is it never recorded ahead of time? We're told at the same time Miles is told when his father will become captain as well as when he will die, so why isn't Gwen's canon event recorded? The answer is simple... That event hasn't happened and it may never happen. How can you have records of events yet to occur? It's near impossible and this could explain, why an algorithm is needed to predict similarities' that are deemed canon, that could possibly happen. It's a theory of possibility based off common event's that have transpired. I'd like to end this rant/theory/ whatever with a film that used to scare the crap out of me. Final Destination (2000) no matter what the protagonist did in the movie if it was their fate to die, it would happen regardless even when they thought it could be averted. If Miguel wasn't operating on fear alone and a bit of guilt he wouldn't feel the need to interfere with the lives of any spider-person. Allowing these events to unfold naturally. (Oh ya, I didn't forget! Rhino his facial expression even for a villain was drenched in absolute fear as if he felt safer in his cage within spider-society vs being returned to God knows where.)
yo, i think that these cannons are made up and miguel is wrong as he does.why? because i think when miguel replace his dead verse with himself, it was an incursion(learned in doctor strange in the multiverse of madness). incursion occurs when an person from a universe cause an huge amount of foot in another universe and both or one universe is destroyed. i think this happen to miguel when he replace himself with a dead version of himself so that he could be with his family. this caused the universe to be shattered. i also think this happen in pav universe^ as miles,gwen,hobbie and the spot werent suppose to be there and they cause a huge amount of choas and this is the reason why incursion occured. and for those who dont understand: let me eplain. uncle of spiderman has to die before he trly becomes spiderman but in toms movies we never accually saw uncle ben died. his aunt may died in is 3 movie after he had reached his potential. i hpe you liked my messenge.
If we're saying incursions exist explain why in doctor strange 2, why didn't they also glitch, I think the use of magic to get to another universe is what causes incursions, not the impact of two universes, otherwise mile's universe would have been destroyed by now.
when dr strange visits a world which is destroyed by its strange because he used power from that book way to mush to get herself a christine and in the process destroyed the worlds but in miles universe it was told that his universe corrected itself by killing its peter paker and eventually making miles the web singing hero.
"What's important is not standing by while allowing someone to suffer or die because you do nothing. If you don't get that, then you don't know the first thing about being spiderman." Miguel should of heard these words out from the Peter Parker (Spider-Man: Edge of Time) from another dimension because leaving people to die doesn't make you a hero.
That was the takeaway from his origin story, "With great power comes great responsibility." And there's a difference between something bad happening in your life, like your Uncle Ben being killed then Captain Stacy, then Gwen Stacy, and knowing ahead of time it's "supposed" to happen so not preventing it. Like in the Will Ferrell movie _Stranger Than Fiction._ But I don't understand the others being canon or not being canon. That Captain Stacy finds out Peter is Spider-Man and then has to die rescuing an innocent child. OK, is this more guilt for Peter, or to make him have a martyr complex or did he feel he'd done enough and needed a reminder? Gwen seems to know that one of her canon events mirrors that of Peter: Peter dying is a reflection of Gwen dying. So does the love of their life have to die? Will that mean that Spider-Woman's husband will have to be killed and she just has to accept it?
I reckon Miguel knows about all this, but he's doing it to make other spider people suffer even more, it's like If I can't have good things you can't have good thing, he's extremely broken after the incursion tragedy
Great video once again, I've had to argue these points with one of my friends before. Idk how people don't realize that Miguel is wrong. He's saying that Miles Morales shouldn't be Spider-Man in the Miles Morales Spider-Man movie loll.
@@silcoxjakob yes, but he is. From inconsistencies in Miguel's story to the fact that he's the main character. Miles being wrong would be the dumbest writing decision ever. Itsv established that anyone can wear the mask and then atsv challenged what we established in the first film.
@@arrowpaw1847but they didn’t challenge it, our miles was never supposed to be spiderman, earth 42s miles was supposed to be spiderman that’s what Miguel is talking about
@@chrishardin9774 he explicitly says that Miles isn't Spider-Man because of that. Yes Miles was an accident but that doesn't mean he's not Spider-Man, I'm still a human even though my parents didn't mean to have me.
There are two other MCU nods in this movie, the Sacred Timeline as depicted in Loki and AM&TW: Quantumania (confirmed by some people involved in the movie) as well as 199999/616M Aaron Davis fully suited up as The Prowler (confirmed by concept art listing him as such). With that in mind, another possibility for what Miguel experienced is that he broke the Absolute Point in that universe’s timeline. As the variant of The Ancient One explained to her world’s Strange in What If, each universe has certain events that must transpire. This differs from what Miguel describes as Canon Events in that is not something that’s the same in every universe, but rather an event specific to that universe. That’s why Christie Palmer is destined to die in the universe in question but not the main MCU, as that was the variant universe’s origin story for Doctor Strange becoming Sorcerer Supreme (a title he never attained in the main MCU). Miguel circumventing the Absolute Point of Gabriella losing her father must’ve triggered that Absolute Point. The main thing going against this theory is the fact that the universe itself would fight him on making sure the Absolute Point still happened, hence the Doctor Strange variant’s failed attempts to save Christine. So your theory about the incursion is probably more likely.
We see how Miguel clearly isn't the most stable person...What If he did in fact push for it and isn't telling the whole story of it's collapse. Incursion events can't be triggered randomly either...Someone somewhere has to intentionally start it with Dreamwalking or destroying one earth through very unorthodox means that causes a domino effect of earths colliding with other earths in every reality. Which something tells me they're not going into incursions for the simple reason that they're not ready to wipe out the entire multiverse they're only now fully exploring. That they're not going to kill everyone in these films.
Miguel is clearly paranoid because of severe trauma, we obviously can't blame him for that. However, this makes him short sighted and not open to more possibilities
The spider bite is also considered a canon event, so why aren't either of the Miles' universes breaking? That was the first thing that made me question canon events.
If canon events aren’t real that means probably in the next movie Miles’s dad won’t die and maybe everyone in Miguel society is going to realize that he was lying. But that’s just a theory.
@@thebruh2019 Depends on if he's an Evil Variant intentionally manipulating fate or if he's truly fundamentally come to the wrong conclusion. Either way he's done something wrong and must be stopped from making it worse for everyone...Because the logical conclusion to his way of things being absolute is that he will be the one to end the entire existence of the Multiverse. Because both Miles actually exist to save it, He's ignoring the actual threat of the Spot and that the future visions show dozens if not hundreds of Spider-People dead and gone.
I personally think that Canon Events are both Miguel's interpretation of events beyond his control and his excuse to police universes. He can't accept that the multiverse is chaotic to the point of being undefinable and uncontrollable so he cordons off specific universes so he can force what he thinks is right onto the lives of other Spider People. Logically speaking, no matter what events happen, that is now the canon, the canon of a story is fluid, not set in stone.
don't stop talking about gwen! your voice matters on it and clearly ppl appreciate it enough to subscribe. it's like you created a little safe community for Gwen lovers. being dramatic is fine- it's for the video
honestly i think the pit in Pav's dimension wasn't related to the canon at all. it's just another one of Spot's... well, spots. Since he's an anomaly, he couldn't have caused a canon event because that just wouldn't make any sense according to Miguel's theory.
But u guys are forgetting when Miguel said if you break too much cannon event, the universe is going to destroy… Key word (too much), Miguel, being in a different dimension, was breaking more and more canon, which made the universe destroy
2:36 the dead Miguel's daughter was supposed to become Spiderman in that dimension. Since Miguel replaced him, she never became Spiderman. Meaning that universe had no Spiderman, leading to collaspe
miguel dont joke because he got no spidey sence and he has to pay more attention to be alert unlike other spider who joke and rely on spidey sence to warn them. i seriously dont get why people give the attention of hate towards gwen.i mean she didnt have a choice,she doesnt wanted to face her problems(dad and having no friend) in her universe. she had to follow miguels order so he doesnt send her home.she,in the start of movie said she didnt waant to hurt him but she did. as soon as she got a mission in miles universe she went to visit him immediatly while following the order of miguel and following his desire to see miles,but in the end she lost both. miles and here relation broke and got betryed by the spider society. some say she got what she deserve and now miless on spiderbyte,i mean WHAT the heck??! anyhow later she learnt from miles everything is possible so she builds a team to help miles and redeem herself. i get the pain miles felt of lossing, felling betrayed by his friend,lossing his relation with gwen and getting jealous but i think hobie was doing this to tease miles and get this reaction. i mean when he first appeared on the screen he said^is this the guy from 1610 which means gwen talk about her oftenly and he knowns how he fell bout miles. "In every other universe gwen stacy falls for spider man and in everyother universe it doesnt end well" it didnt end her for well also love ur content.😎
Actually, Miles is part of the Canon too, anomaly or not, when he came to be Spiderman, let's just say his Earth is pretty fine with him being the Spiderman in her, so, the moment he become and showed that he will keep the legacy of his Peter alive, the canon included him in their plans, Miles already lost the guardian/father figure, the tutorial pain every Spiderman suffer, now it's time for his Gwen Stacy type of tragedy, I know that some peoples replies Spider-Ham's quote, that even if you can't save everyone, you at least had to try, but, Peter did this, he was put in a situation between saving innocent civilians and Gwen, Peter choosed to save both, but unfortunately ended up only saving the civilians. In Spider-Gwen's Case, the canon probably changed for her, because she didn't care and cut any emotional bond with her father after her Peter's Death Incident, she's lonelier(if not more or mostly tied to Peter B) But in Peter's Case, an opportunity for happiness is right in front of him, he was just too afraid to catch and reach it in the first movie, that happiness being Mary Jane. Gwen in another hand, didn't try to fight destiny for two reasons 1° She pretty much was done with her Father, so, a other death to her wouldn't hurt that badly, she isolates herself so quick as much she can to not hurt or let other peoples around her have the same tragic fate her Peter had. 2° Peter in Raimi's Spiderman 2 was willing to isolate himself permanently in order to be full time Spiderman, he was mean it in his farewell to a civilian and normal life, but his full life being Spiderman wouldn't be that lonely because MJ chooses to stay by his side, regardless of the dangers she may could live. Spider Gwen didn't have that lucky with her, so she cut any emotional ties with anyone, so, The Canon seeing that a Spider Person, was willingly to make the hardest and most impossible and unthinkable decision a Spiderman could give and choose, that being letting a loved one die in order to save and let the multiverse intact, Fate smiled to Gwen and let her father live(she pretty much did the same thing as Insomniac's Spiderman did, with the difference is that it's not a whole fucking multiverse was in game, just NY) So in the case of Miles, he has to let the thing happen, even when he's aware that is about to, he don't have to intervene, in the case of Peter, he wasn't aware or was thinking that his Gwen could die, he was certain and confident enough he was going to save her, but that wasn't the way the things end up being for him.
I honestly feel like Miguel created the Spider-Society as a trauma bonding coping mechanism to deal with the tragic events that happened to him. Maybe he and other Spider-People find it comforting to know that the tragic events in their life is what made them to be Spider-Man, but staying in that feeling for too long can blind you to any thing that takes you out of that zone, that you'd perceive it as a threat. Whether it's a place or a person, and in Miguel's case, it's Miles. Miles' youth, optimism and wanting to do things differently as a positive change agent is seen a threat to Miguel, the Spider-Society he created, and the Spiderverse at large. He's so stuck and locked in his pain that he blindly rejects any alternative ways on how to be a Spider-Man and saving people, yet his theory on the disruption of Canon events has so many hole that you can poke and prod at and other Spider-People start to doubt it and have a change of mind. Although I do feel sympathy for him, given through what he has gone through. (Gonna go a LGBTQ tangent, and if that offends you, I recommend that you do some self reflection and look yourself in the mirror and ask why I hate people who are different.) Miguel honestly reminds me of some older queer folks who have paved the way the community and/or who have experienced a lot of hatred, pain and trauma from loved ones who have a lot of animosity for younger queer folks, especially non-binary and trans folks (pretty relevant to ASTV since there is a "PROTECT TRANS KIDS" poster in Gwen's room in her universe, and her world and costume is bathed in the trans flag). These older queer people are a minority, but they vehemently hate the existence of young nb and trans folks because they believe that their experience is of queerness is inherently different from theirs, especially if they have accepting, loving, affirming and protective parents who shield them from harm and hatred. They find their existence offensive and will do anything to ruin their lives, especially if they have influence and power.
A few things. Following the main points of the video; Of the events we've seen thus far that could be seen as "canon events being altered/ interrupted" we have five of importance. The first few being Earth-42 Spider bite; which made Earth-42 Miles into the prowler and Earth-1610 Miles into Spiderman was one and two simultaniously, three was Officer Stacy deciding to quit the force before becoming Cpatain, four being Miles saving officer Singh, and five being Miguel replacing himself in another dimension. Note that in the first three events, there was no real outside influance that created these changes. They were all the result of the choices of characters in their own rexpective universes. Whereas the only times we've seen universal backlash had been when characters from outside the universe they are currently visiting making changes (i.e: Miles saving officer Singh instead of Pav and Miguel taking the place of his alternate universe self instead of him just "staying dead"). If they wanted to, they could say that is is not THAT an event is interrupted, but HOW it is interrupted. However, yes, these phenomina all smack of incursions and it would be much more likely. Perhaps it could be a little of both, as incurions aren't super fleshed out. I don't think Miguel is lying, I just think he's wrong and is starting to realize the magnitude of what that means. "I don't like what I have to do... but I know I have to be the one to do it... I've given up too much to stop now..." To fill in the gaps for 2099, he has powers that are more in line with how spiders actually work. Miguel has proportinal stregth and reflexes of a spider, speed fast enoug to leave an after-immage, claws in his hands and feet to cling to walls instead of just being sticky, telescopic/untra violet/infra red/night vision, fangs that deliver a paralytric neurotoxin, and an excelerated healing factor along with his advanced intelligence from being a top Alchemax scientist. The injections he's taking are not to stabalize or balance his powers, they're an enhancing drug that magnifies his abilities. Kinda going along with his new stronger body and determination. If you look at the animation that plays after the initial injection it's not changing his DNA, just clinging to it and magniying it, as shown in the flashing in his eyes when it's complete.
This was a very well made video and opinion about Canon events. However, My personal theory is that Canon events ARE real, however the corruption only begins when it’s corrupted by another dimensions’ Spider-Man. If you think about it, Mumbattan almost immediately started to get corrupted, after Miles saved Inspector Singh. And how did Gwen’s universe not immediately crash or start crashing at all? She personally talked her dad out of it (being captain) In addition, besides Canon events seeming very fishy and very much like the type of thing an AI would just fill the gaps, it’s kind of hard to believe every Spider story HAS to have some of the same parts. Like, kind of a side tangent but I’m pretty sure one of the events I saw in the interlining webs was Spider-Man getting married. Could you imagine some of these Spider-Man getting married? Like I would pay money to see who the love interest of the Spider Popsicles’ lover is. Or SpidersMan, Ben Riley, you get it.
I do get it! I actually agree with this argument too… I think canon events can be real, but they only show a universe being affected when a spider from an alternate dimension breaks it, so you’re right on that. Also, seeing Spider-Popsicle’s wedding would be hilarious. Thanks for watching!
Bro love these videos, I like how Miles is facing off thousands of spidermen to save his father 🥲Miles is a true man... I also think Miguel just doesn't want to lose anymore friends/family which is why he said "we are" but actually what Miguel is doing is wrong.
No he’s not. Miguel O’Hara is not fit to be a leader this man has a lot of trauma he has to work through so he doesn’t blow his fuse and project all his insecurities on Miles or anyone who questions him
So does this mean that in ITSV, if Peter B stayed in 1610 to turn off the collider, he would've caused an incursion? Or would he have died before that happened?
Miguel 928B: DONT YOU GET IT!? CANON EVENTS MUST HAPPEN OR THE REALITY WILL IMPLODE UPON ITSELF, JUST LET ME KILL YOUR GWEN STACY! Peter 96283: If Gwen is supposed to die, then why hasn't my reality collapsed then? (Miguel 928B devolves into incoherent rage and screaming) Peter 96283: That's what I thought.
When you mentioned the possibility (probably hard truth) that Miguel has been surrounded by so many people that think they're comedians/probaby annoy the shit out of him with one-liners everyday, I started laughing so hard idk why something so true was that groundbreaking to me (cus Miguel being miserable is funny to me)
I think Miguel and Kingpin might have some correlation to each other, they both messed with a Collider or some type of multiversal travel device so that they could be back with their families, so Miguel might not be what he seems, just a thought 🤷.
9:36 Yes, I think it's because of the collidor, too. In fact, I think the universe Miguel had moved to got distroyed by that as well. It's still possible that Miguel being there prevented somebody from becoming Spider-Man. But I don't think the universe's destruction was the direct result of that. If Alchemex has establishments across the multi-verse, isn't it a possibility that there was nobody to stop Kingpin from turning on the machine and causing this destruction? (That could even be what Peter from 1610 saw in the multiverse. That's how he knew Kingpin's plan wasn't gonna work.)
Somebody call me stupid and "bad man" because i say, that Spiderman shouldn't just stay and watch that someone die because some big blue guy that said that its canon event. "Oh, you horrible man. Your decision kills everyone in this universe. I would let that person die even if im Spiderman, im supposed to save him but im not gonna do it. Big blue guy cant be wrong."
The only multiverse Spiderman who I think can actually square up against Miguel and get him to lay off Miles is Spider Noir. Nobody else has proven to successfully stand up to Miguel but Noir is a tough guy who likes to fight and is a force to be reckoned with. Miles will expose 2099 but Noir will make him fall back and force him to back off of Miles
9:08 yeah he gets his powers from dna splicing cuz in the comics he wanted to quit his job but his boss had drugged him with a drug called rapture which bonds to the dna so like you cant get over the addiction (alchmex was the only company allowed to legally distribute rapture) so he tried to use the dna splicing machine to get rid of it. One goon messes with the machine during the procedure giving the spider abilities. I thoght on my first watch that Miguel was injecting himself with rapture until i remembered he cured himself
@Serpent Sir so, in the 2099 storyline Miguel gets his powers from splicing his DNA with a spider's. he gets fangs, paralytic venom, superhuman conditioning, talons/claws in his hands and feet, superhuman senses similar to Dare Devil, and organic webs shooting from the tops of his wrists. he doesn't get the spidersense or electrostatic wallcrawling. there are other variations in spider powers like Silk's (Cindy Moon). she's less physically strong than Pete but she has a heightened spidersense and is faster and more agile. she also shoots organic webbing from her fingertips. Ezekiel Sims got his powers from some dark ritual and all of Pete and Miles' clones were technically never bitten either. those examples alone disprove at least the spider bite canon event.
I think Miguel’s home didn’t get destroyed was because going to the happy universe might have been a cannon event for him but I will say this is a stretch because a cannon event can’t disrupt another but the formation of the spider society (probably needed to happen because of a cannon event) didn’t cause a black whole and all the spider men from there universes didn’t get there universes erased so I don’t know how his would have gotten erased by him leaving his universe because his purpose was to create the spider society. NERDS DONT SAY ANYTHING
How can we even prove that incursion actually happened? He says “Right, Peter?” to Peter in a threatening way to back him up. Peter didn’t seem keen on agreeing with him. I think Miguel is making it up into this Godly incident that only he can prove. My thing is, why was Peter there in the first place?? Miguel comes across as a cult leader. He’s keeping his followers based on threats and fear.
Hey, massive thanks for making these spider verse videos, really enjoying them all. The idea that the incursion caused the disruption of Miguel's universe seems reasonable, but I think you should've mentioned it in the video of Miles and Gwen ending up together cuz it makes it almost impossible (at least settling down in one universe) :/ Edit: I just realized that there is a comic where they got married and even had kids.. how? (are those comics related to the spider verse?)
Thank you! Also yes they end up together in a comic, and while I don’t remember exactly how it works, basically there are requirements for both Gwen and Miles’ universes to reach the utopia that is Earth-8 (the one they’re married in). I think those comics will be related. Perhaps Gwen or Miles will visit the universe where they’re both married and it’ll help them reinforce the idea that they can truly be together. How it all works? I have no clue right now, I’ll just go with comic magic lol
@Serpent Sir Miguel doesn’t actually have Spider Powers because his lab assist botched his cure a crackhead test research. He injects himself with red juice because it stops his craving for blood. As Miguel is known for being the vampire spider. If Miguel wants, he can literally turn people into soup and eat them. Do he takes the red stuff, probably blood of some sort to calm the spliced part of his DNA 🧬 down. Which is why in the Across The Spiderverse movie is why he tried to sink his fangs into a villain but got caught by the helicopter people. That’s also why his eyes turn bloodshot too, it’s the spider genes slowly taking over. Miguel also has no spider sense given he wasn’t bitten by a radioactive spider and he can’t web sling either. Miguel just wants his cult to be just as miserable as he is.
I have a good theory. You know how at the first movie when kingpin was activating the collider the whole world started to glitch around and like it was all going to explode before miles stopped it by beating kingpin? My theory is that the universe that got destroyed had an Alchemax just like miles and pavtir's universe did and they both had colliders so its really likely that the universe that was shown to be destroyed was the cause of the collider that couldn't be stopped since miguel's death was supposed to play an important role in stopping the collider. But because Miguel replaced himself that reason was gone so the collider couldn't be stopped and the universe was destroyed in the same glitchy way Miles's was when kingpin was activating the collider. What could have happened if Mile's didn't stop the collider in his universe it would meet the same fate that Miguel's did. The only reason how all the spiderman were not effected when that universe was being destroyed where Miguel replaced himself is most likely because of their watches that kept them from glitching so it also made them immune to the effects of the supposed collider in universe miguel replaced himself. So in general while canon events does exist. It's really likely that breaking them really dont destroy the multiverse. Miguel just doesn't know the actual reason why his universe was destroyed where he replaced himself and thats why i think the collider did it. Also yeah maybe miguel's death was supposed to make his daughter become spiderwomen in order to stop the collider. Either that or just an entirely different spiderman from that universe
One thing to point out about Miguels replacement universe disappearing. In Into the Spider-Verse, we are shown that replacing a Spider-Man did nothing to the world. When Brad Pitt Peter died, nothing happened. And when Peter B came into the universe, that could classify as a replacement. Nothing happens. As other have pointed out, that black hole was designed after Spot and the first movie described the Collider as summoning a black hole underneath Brooklyn. Spot who had just combined with a collider probably has that power.
another example I've seen highlighted is that the earth 42 spider that bit miles was dead for a while until is was taken by spot and that was also from another universe so it doesn't make sense that the others from a different universe without a watch can be the cause of a dimension unravelling otherwise Earth 1610 would have unraveled already
THIS is what ive been saying!! I really enjoy your videos :D I cant wait for more!! (and gwen is my favorite character so i love all the gwen content!!)
My reasoning for thinking about canon events is if your from a different universe and interrupt directly a canon event it causes the universe to corrupt. But in a case like Hobbie leaving something for Gwen and talking to Gwen's dad a bit but not forcing him to change his role. I think it's if the original person/people from their universe changes something then it won't cause the universe to implode. Like Peter B had Mayday because he meet Miles and he go back with Mj. There's to many inconsistencies and that Miguel went to a different universe where he was dead breaking said canon in that universe he wasn't a part og.
if you look where the building fell(while being consumed by dark matter), it lands right where the supposed reaction to the disrupted cannon event is. obviously not the aftermath of a canon event. speaking of which, how in the hell does an anomaly like spot trigger a canon event, if anomalies supposedly are "canon-killers"? Lastly, remember the guy that miles was hiding on the back of in the chase scene? he was one of the spider scientists meant to deal with the dark energy. mind you, miguel said literally 2 minutes before that theyd be lucky to stop the dark energy from spreading. at the very same time, the scientists were probably already finished containing it. now miguel might not know about that, but come on he has cameras literally everywhere, he definitely knew that theyd saved mumbattan already
good news is that once migel figures this out he can focus on fixing it by just making sure that travelers dont cause incersions. also if his watches completly stop people from causing incersions that would be an awsome thing to be floating around the connected universe
From what I've been able to gather about Miguel, he got his spider DNA when someone/group of people (pretty sure it was some coorporate bs cuz in his verse in the comics he's president of Alchemex i think) tried to drug him with a super addictive drug in his universe but something got switched/mixed up and he got the spider dna thing instead? I'm not super sure on all the details myself, but basically, yes, he is not a "traditional" Spiderman either.
That first “we are” giving off serious “This planet isn’t *yours* to conquer” energy Makes sense cause Miguel is the future fla- I mean, future Spider-Man… possible foreshadowing?
in into the spiderverse its said like 3 times that if the collider is activated it will create a black hole above the brooklyn, the business in munbattan is definitively the collider and the spot's fault
MIles has looked danger in the face (The danger being Miguel) & pretty much told him "You're not going to tell me what I can & can't do you aren't going to dictate my life on being Spider-Man). And Miguel didn't like being told "No" go along with the program kid this is what you signed up for "Um no most of the spider people didn't sign up to be Spider-Man."
Something that I noticed is that in the first movie when Peter Parker is talking to miles, he says that if king pen turns the colider on again that everything and everyone he knows will disappear. Just like what happed in miguels world, everything and everyone disappeared. So I think that in the world that miguel was in had the colider on. Along with everything he said in the video. Truly proving that cannon events aren't real.
If you cant stay in a universe long cause of incursions, that means Gwen cant stay in Mile's universe (or viceversa). Doesn't that mean they kinda have to remain friends, or at most kiss and then dip?
Those are some good points, like that it might have been Miguel's incursion lasting years that finally triggered something causing that world's destruction around him. In which case, having pieces of spider-venom or DNA inside Miles for years, might have put his universe Earth-1610 in danger. Originally, it was the visitor that was in danger from glitching, but if Miguel's device prevents glitching maybe it also triggered that world's destruction? I wonder if Miles ever noticed his spider-powers glitching? However, going forward I was thinking Miles maybe felt some responsibility for Earth-42 not having a Spider-Man, even though it really wasn't his fault. So I thought he might want to jump back and forth between universes to protect his own city and put the other one right. But if there is something called Fate or an Author making canon, then wouldn't Miles have to fight a villain in Earth-1610 that was "made" for the Spider-Man that died who had something like 10 years of experience, and therefore would be too much for Miles?
I am wondering if the Canon Event is similar to an Absolute Point that was brought up in the Marvel What If show with Dr Strange. Him trying to undo an absolute point (Christine Palmer’s death) cause his universe to collapse.
ok about the incursions.... if miguel staying in that earth is what caused it then why all the spider society's existance didn't made earth 928 explode yet? we know that miguel started recruiting spider man since the end of ITSV where he goes into earth 67, we also see peter B in the colapse of the earth where miguel was wich means that the spider society already existed if miguel's multiversal tech wasnt enought to stop a dimension from incursioning then why 928 didn't go boom?
Well that because it implies that one the tech they use to not glitch is helping and two they stay in that tower until they either go back home or is assigned a mission there not going out of hq solving crimes and all that so not "cannon events" are being unweaved by the said spider society
My favorite part of 'Big American Cheeseburger Gwen' is when Big American Cheeseburger Gwen said, "Its Big American Cheeseburger time" and Big American Cheeseburger'd all over the place 💯%💲🇺🇲🇺🇸🍔
Pinned les goooo
Bro me too I'm not ready one of the comics but I'm going to eventually
End me. 😭
Please don't all it actually is just me just talking
this is the craziest one yet
When he said "we are" twice in response to "we are supposed to be the good guys" it seemed like he was trying to convince himself that he was doing the right thing
Yeah I loved that detail
As well as trying to get rid of any doubt and reassure the others
He said it himself he doesn’t like what he does
I noticed that, too. Gwen ate their asses up with that line.
Yeah, most villains say stuff like that to excuse their evil actions, Miguel is insane people and in general, don’t take anything edgy red and blue OC says at face value.
To summarize the movie: Miguel tries to make everything canon-compliant and Miles decides to write a fanfic
Yesss. Couldn't have said it better myself.
As Doc says in BTTF 3, “Your future hasn’t been written yet!” Because the future can’t be pre-written, it’s written with what YOU do with it, not what WILL happen. So canon events aren’t real. “Your future is whatever you make it, so make it a good one” -Doc BTTF 3
its crazy how the writers made BOTH sides of Miguel and Miles both believable. I still dont understand how they did it but they did
It’s pretty easy both are popular characters and are Spider-Man they just stand on a different side of the same coin
It's a cosmic trolley problem. Both side mase sense has always been the core of the trolley problem, and the very reason why it's a problem to begin with
No they didn't. Miguel's evidence is so flimsy and full of holes that it creates big writing problems, specifically character ones.
The film makes Miguel so obviously wrong that most, if not all would not be convinced too follow him and let infinite people just die. Every one of them would logically demand to study the evidence for themselves, and as a result would see how glaringly bad the evidence is.
@@jeggsonvohees2201 I agree the writing for cannon events is very strange as I’d give the info the Spider Mans had they all mostly would do the opposite but honestly I understand Miguel and where’s he coming from losing his family and entire dimension that wasn’t even his but the burden of it has stayed and he can’t allow that to happened again Miguel Character also won’t give up till the Job is Done playing as him in Shattered Dimension and Edge of Time Really shows his character even if very different still holds the strong values of saving everyone
@@jeggsonvohees2201 Probably it’s when the Spider-Man become aware of this issue? Knowing that these are cannon events can help them overcome grief and accept the loss as a part of their experience, and move past it. Just standing by letting tragedy happen… this is against the core characterization of Spider-Man. When has a Spider-Man every threw up their hands and say “whelp, I guess it’s meant to be”. Indian Spiderman’s response “I can do both” is how a Spider-Man will respond to the dilemma, every time.
Another inconsistent thing I wanna point out is that the Spot, an anomaly, caused the disaster where Inspector Singh almost died (in Mumbattan). If he is not even supposed to be in that dimension, why is he causing Pav’s canon event??? Aren’t anomalies inherent disruptions of canon? This flaw in Miguel’s theory really sticks out to me here
Yessiree Bob, I was thinking the same thing. also by Miguel’s logic Mayday wasn’t supposed to be born
I guess in Miguel's eyes the event itself is still a canon event even if outside anomalous forces that aren't supposed to be there cause it to happen sooner or later.
Ikr same thing with miles if he wasnt suppose to be spiderman why is his dad dying a canon event
Pretty sure how the canon event happens doesn’t matter. They never said that the same exact 1-to-1 situation happens but that a specific thing happens. The death of a loved one
Miles literally told Miguel that the spot was the one that was going to kill his dad right before he asks Miguel when it’s going to happen, yet Miguel still wants to catch the spot. Why is he trying to catch him if he needs him to cause a canon event?
I just feel bad for the guy. He sees his daughter of another universe lose her father, so he steps in thinking that she wouldn't have to suffer but ends up destroying her and the entire universe. After that, he forms Spider-society to try and stop things like that from ever happening again, but then has to deal with Miles who he believes is about to make the same mistake as him. He ends up projecting all his mistakes on Miles and straight up loses it thinking another universe is about to get demolished. Of all the people who need Spider-therapy, he is one of them.
Now that you mention it, it is quite ironic that the spider-society has a designated therapist and yet Miguel seems like the type to have never visited him.
Honestly bro needs a therapist badly but since y'know nobody really has done something like he did(Atleast that we know of), it kinda feels like he is alone in this situation which makes it more sad since he practically is nearly insane by the end of the whole thing
@@thebruh2019 Not nearly is Unhinged is Insane. He's utterly illogical and wants to truly harm Miles in both mind and body. A Child. This isn't how you treat some of the worst of the worst Spider-Villains let alone ONE of your Own kind that because of your personal shite you reject.
actually if you play close attention, there are multiple spider people present during the collapse of that reality, not just Miguel and Peter B
he had ALREADY formed the spider society to some extent before that happened
@@flamesofchaos13 Tbh it seems more like he wants to capture miles as atm in the movie he view miles as a bigger threat then spot, he may be pissed at miles but he clearly wants to keep miles captured until his "Canon event" happens
One thing to point out is that In into the spider-verse, miles's Peter says to Green Goblin "I can't let you open up a black hole under Brooklyn" and guess what is happening in Pav's universe, looks like a black hole to me.
This is exactly what I was thinking
Even doc ock said it to kingpin in itsv
was just about to say this, ppl overlook that part in the first movie. i got a feeling that’s exactly what happened in Pavs universe
Yes the dark matter holes are the collider and Spot who was empowered by the collider. It's so plainly obvious...It's incredible people have missed this certain fact. The only actual event that could be an incursion or canon event...Is Living Miguel replacing Dead Miguel. However given we don't see that full experience any conclusion is born of assumption not facts.
It's a metaphor for capitalism
I saw someone talk about this on Tumblr but something interesting I'd like to mention is how a lot of the spider side-characters from the first movie have had "anomalies" in their world, but to our knowledge nothing bad has happened to those worlds at all. For instance spider noir brought the colourful rubix cube to his world which isn't supposed to have colour and Peni Parker's original mech-suit was destroyed which probably wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the events of into the spider verse. If anomalies were really so bad you'd think that these things would affect their worlds
I think the spiderverse anomalies are a lot more relaxed than TVA. It's just the core events in a comic character's life. Uncle Ben always dies, Batman always lose his parents, Krypton always gets destroyed, something like that. These things happen in some variation no matter which writer is writing the comics, at which time period, at which iteration. These are the the core events to the superheros. Other stuff doesn't matter, and different comic writer changes things around all the time.
That's a good point in the original post (the reply seems to mistake canon for anomaly). If Miguel being too long in that other Earth caused its destruction, then things that went to other Earths should too, whether it's Gwen's jumper (sweater), Tobie's trainers (sneakers), and other things mentioned, including the original body of the spider that bit Miles.
What if revealing Spider-People's identity to their respective police captains is a disruption in itself? The only one we're aware of doing that is Gwen, which resulted in the captain resigning from his role, even though there's the fact that she's his daughter.
In TAS Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man revealed his identity to Captain Stacy but he still died afterwards (and we do see his version in the movie), so sadly that's not the case. But I think the canon event is simply wrong in some way or another, we'll have to wait and see.
@@kristynab.6539 oh right I forgot about that (I don't remember anything about TASM movies, since I was very young), they even showed it in ATSV
The way I see disruption is that all of these stories are comics. So you need to look into the comics, and see what never changes and what changes. In different Spiderman runs, he reveals his identify to different people, or not. This is not a part of his core mythos, and these disruption doesn't matter. It's up to each writer to write the story. Disruption is changing something that every writer puts into their story, no matter which comic you read, uncle Ben (in some variation) always dies. Every single comic writer write the story this way. These are connon events that doesn't change. So if you tally up all spiderman stories, the story events that happens in all of these comics are the cannon events, other stuff doesn't matter
@@seanmei6284 There was a _What If?_ comic I really liked where Ben lived and May was killed (a canon variation now). Ben figured out Peter was Spider-Man pretty quickly and on the cover got in J. Jonah Jameson's face for badmouthing Spider-Man. But he also accepted Jonah's argument about being an anonymous costumed vigilante and had Peter "come out" as Spider-Man to him.
Probably not, but it has lead to one of the funniest memes I've seen. I especially love those memes where you just hear Miguel's theme when something bad happens and it's treated as a canon event irl 😂
Yup best meme we've had in a while
I like the "Miguel vs Edge" memes from the Spanish speaking internet.
I honestly agree. I never trusted Miguel, and the lengths he goes to justify what he does to Miles (who according to him is an anomally and thus shouldn't even have "canon events" in the first place) really rubs me the wrong way
Miguel is basically a person who while had good intentions, got corrupted by his own grief and trauma
when you talked about miguel's DNA splicing with the venom he puts in him self its actually because the real reason he performed the DNA fusion experiment on himself was to overcome his drug addiction. Before becoming Spider-Man, he was addicted to a powerful drug called Rapture that binds to the user's DNA
In addition
Iirc, the corrupt company he worked for (I think Alcemex? I don’t remember specifically the name) drugged him with Rapture that’s stupidly addictive. Just a detail I said “well damn” to lmao
Im kinda late but I want to point something out. The Peter Parker from 1610 knew kingpin wanted to bring his family back using the collider. And he told him that if he did that his whole world would collapse. That sentence builds a parallel between Miguel going to another universe to be with his family and kingpin wanting to bring his family from another universe to his universe to have them again. And seeing how Miguels universe collapsed when he replaced someone in that universe confirms that Miguel replacing himself caused that universe to collapse
So an incursion?
@@derrickdaniels3955 ye
I’ve always had that theory that Miguel were supposed to be the uncle Ben type of figure to her. Since I believe his daughter is a gender bend version of Gabriel O’Hara, Miguel son, in the comics who also became a Spider-Man. That’s the only way I could see be a big defense on Canon events.
I thought the same thing
I thought she was named that because Miguel’s brother’s name is Gabriel? I didn’t realize he had a son in the comics
A theory I'm a fan of currently is that the Spot has gained either some semblance if time transcendence or gained the ability to tapped into the Web of Life and Destiny, and thus is using his newfound power to torture/dictate the lives of all Spidermen.
We're shown at the end of ITSV that the Web of Life and Destiny is very much real in the multiverse, and when the Spot achieves his final form, he and Miles are shown a vision of both of them inside of it, before showing glimpses of the future. Miles gets another vision of his supposed "canon event" in the spider society, and it briefly shows him and Spot grabbing their head and doing the same pose, possibly hinting at them being connected. Moreover, in ITSV, Gwen arrives in Miles' universe after he got bit by the Earth 42 spider, but before the collider malfunctioned and brought in Peter B and the other spider gang. While it could be argued she was brought in by an earlier test, the Spot's recounting of the event implied that all tests before the collider incident were controlled, and aside from an earthquake, nobody else was brought in before it exploded. This could be a showcase that the Collider has the capability of pulling things through time as well as dimensions, which The Spot (who has the same powers) could potentially replicate as well.
When the quantum hole appears in Mumbhattan, Miguel and other spiders conclude that it was because Miles disrupted Pav's "canon event"; the Spider society is also familiar with these types of things as they have had experience with trying to contain these holes before. But when the hole appears, it plays Spot's theme song, being a musical clue that he was responsible. Miles even brings it up during Miguel's explanation of canon events, but Miguel immediately brushes it off. In fact, Miguel (and other members of the society) brush off alot of Spot's involvement in the potential destruction of the multiverse, seeing him as something to clean up on the side and of less importance then ensuring Miles adheres to his canon event.
So it is possible that the Spot's powers are the true cause of the multiverse being destroyed, and through some measure has gained the power to affect things through different times. Meaning he could've been the one responsible for the alternate Miguel's dimension's destruction. This might seem hard to believe for some, and it could be argued that this explanation takes away some of the mystique/ intrigue brought up by the canon event dilemma, but I think it could also work as well as tie into an important theme involved with Spiderman. As the only reason the Spot got this powerful to begin with is because Miles, Gwen, and all of the other Spiderman didn't pay enough mind to him before it was to late. They just looked the other way, or didn't treat it with enough importance as they should have. Even Miguel doesn't divert enough time to try and stop him, more so focused on what Miles is doing. And that negligence and irresponsibility is what has ultimately led to the danger of the entire multiverse. And it is the same negligence and irresponsibility that got Uncle Ben killed in the first place.
Love your theory. Pretty much tracks with mine.
One small error, tho. Gwen appears a week before the collider event that drags her to Miles universe. He has not been bit yet when he first meets her (when she laughs at his "time is relative" joke.) Somehow, her Spider sense is telling her that Miles is special before he has his powers.
@@dgmilloway Thanks for the the clarification. Also, the "time is relative" joke could not only be a callback to Gwen time travelling, but also potentially be further foreshadowing to the Spot's time abilities as well.
I LOVE this theory, and I think you're right. This would be an amazing lesson for the Spiders to be more responsible, and I do think we can blame this on the Spot. He's a lot more powerful than a villain of the week after all
@@serpentsir You play guitar? I noticed your Strat-looking electric in the background at 0:29
Bro I did not expecting that bald Miguel at 3:13 yo.
I love Gwen.
Since our miles was not supposed to be bitten I agree that canon events would not affect him. So the theory that his dad is supposed to die would only apply if his peter parker was supposed to lose him at some point (which would've been a great reason for our miles to further become the prowler).But since he wasn't supposed to be spider-man and that 42 miles was I think the canon event would apply to his counterpart instead as we see at the end of the movie that his dad died.
I'm split on if it's possible defend Miguel...
Miguel's actions are dictated by fear, the fear of creating a nexus event/incursion/canon disruption and it revolves strictly around fear, the fear of destroying another universe without having concrete evidence to present if it was his fault or not. Taking a look at the situation from Miguel's POV he's staring at a sequence of events that have happened and with his knowledge these events are mandatory (constant.) Since they're reoccurring among every other spider-person, for other variant's he doesn't have the outcome to solidify that these events MUST happen, so he uses a program or algorithm to help dictate that these are the events that must remain intact. Honestly, this form of thinking is flawed and the ending answers are only derived from fear of the worse case scenario. Even with good intentions' it doesn't eliminate the fear of what could happen and this is why it's so difficult to find grounds providing solid evidence Miguel's in the right with this situation, the "Go Home Machine," isn't based off the spider-person but the DNA of the spider.
It's creation is to send home any variant to it's respective world and something I've noticed a lack of people pointing out is the look on Rhino's face in that machine and how exactly does this algorithm know which world to send these villains to. (I'll return to this later.)
The audience isn't introduced to multiple canon disruption's so it's difficult to gauge the severity until we're told by Miguel, until we're shown a world collapsing on itself, and we're left with this gut wrenching decision "is Miguel right?" Some individuals would claim, yes, he's correct in his actions because it's for the betterment of the universe, it's for the betterment to keep each spider-person and their beloved connection webbed together. Me, personally can disagree with Miguel's logic and find his actions easily dictated by fear, and the film does a great job by introducing this fear early on by giving us the scene between Gwen and her father. Gwen flees her universe due to fear, fear of how her father see's her now, fear that he will shoot her or lock her up. The fear that she's no longer daddy's little girl... Within that brief moment, that beautiful score of music, it's understandable she's searching for salvation and that salvation waits in spider-society with her newly found mentor/mother figure Jessica Drew and the brooding Miguel O'Hara.
Not convinced by this "fear" statement? Example: Miles and Gwen are on the water tower conversating about all of the many adventures she's been on and Miles' asks the question how are things between her and her father, she's silent for a bit and he asked for her opinion if he should just tell his parents. Her fear of the reaction her dad gave her is instantly reflected onto Miles, he shouldn't, it's a bad idea. We all deal with fear, sometimes we even reflect our personal shortcomings' at people unknowingly because we see our pain, fear, and how we'd react if they experienced it in the same manner we had.. If they could experience a similar pain as our own for better word's.
A lot of argument's held by people I've personally encountered sometimes flips to the events in Mumbattan and how Mile's saving Captain Singh was another canon disruption, I do have personal thoughts on this manner, but for the sake of argument sake. Let's say everything Miguel claims is true, the more people a spider-man or spider-woman saves the more the threads that binds spider-people together falls apart, which will lead to a singular universe unraveling upon itself. Aren't these events destined to happen rather stopped by a spider-person or not? If it's meant to happen, wouldn't it happen regardless if Miles, Gwen, Hobie, or Pavitr saves everyone. Yes! So where is the issue?
F-E-A-R!
The fear of what could happen, the fear of what if these events do not happen, will we lose another universe, will another variant be lost. The fear of loss, the fear of being wrong, the fear of someone else being a better fit, the fear of not being trusted. It's a key issue that's reflected on in the series multiple times over, it's the revolver with one in the chamber of a game of russian roulette we've seen the ammo but the anticipation of whose right, whose wrong it waves heavily as the story progresses.
But the film shows the answer, it showed the answer several times within the film. (Miles story is blank.) this is reinforced even more when we see the multiple spider-people kneeling before a loved one, this is reinforced when we're shown the multiple deaths of Captain's and we see Gwen standing next to a blank canvas, a story that has yet to be written... I've questioned this scene multiple times because if it's meant to happen, when it's meant to happen, why... Why is it never recorded ahead of time? We're told at the same time Miles is told when his father will become captain as well as when he will die, so why isn't Gwen's canon event recorded? The answer is simple... That event hasn't happened and it may never happen.
How can you have records of events yet to occur? It's near impossible and this could explain, why an algorithm is needed to predict similarities' that are deemed canon, that could possibly happen. It's a theory of possibility based off common event's that have transpired. I'd like to end this rant/theory/ whatever with a film that used to scare the crap out of me. Final Destination (2000) no matter what the protagonist did in the movie if it was their fate to die, it would happen regardless even when they thought it could be averted. If Miguel wasn't operating on fear alone and a bit of guilt he wouldn't feel the need to interfere with the lives of any spider-person. Allowing these events to unfold naturally.
(Oh ya, I didn't forget! Rhino his facial expression even for a villain was drenched in absolute fear as if he felt safer in his cage within spider-society vs being returned to God knows where.)
yo, i think that these cannons are made up and miguel is wrong as he does.why? because i think when miguel replace his dead verse with himself, it was an incursion(learned in doctor strange in the multiverse of madness). incursion occurs when an person from a universe cause an huge amount of foot in another universe and both or one universe is destroyed. i think this happen to miguel when he replace himself with a dead version of himself so that he could be with his family. this caused the universe to be shattered.
i also think this happen in pav universe^ as miles,gwen,hobbie and the spot werent suppose to be there and they cause a huge amount of choas and this is the reason why incursion occured.
and for those who dont understand: let me eplain. uncle of spiderman has to die before he trly becomes spiderman but in toms movies we never accually saw uncle ben died. his aunt may died in is 3 movie after he had reached his potential.
i hpe you liked my messenge.
If we're saying incursions exist explain why in doctor strange 2, why didn't they also glitch, I think the use of magic to get to another universe is what causes incursions, not the impact of two universes, otherwise mile's universe would have been destroyed by now.
when dr strange visits a world which is destroyed by its strange because he used power from that book way to mush to get herself a christine and in the process destroyed the worlds but in miles universe it was told that his universe corrected itself by killing its peter paker and eventually making miles the web singing hero.
@@Carrot-yt2jw right, but by incursion logic, the spider caused a really big impact on the universe that should have caused an incursion.
Look what happen when miles,gwen,hobbie and spot caused alxemax destruction in pav universe.
@@Eros_Haii would argue that an icursions effects differ from the method used to traverse the multiverse and the effect the traveler makes
"What's important is not standing by while allowing someone to suffer or die because you do nothing. If you don't get that, then you don't know the first thing about being spiderman."
Miguel should of heard these words out from the Peter Parker (Spider-Man: Edge of Time) from another dimension because leaving people to die doesn't make you a hero.
That was the takeaway from his origin story, "With great power comes great responsibility." And there's a difference between something bad happening in your life, like your Uncle Ben being killed then Captain Stacy, then Gwen Stacy, and knowing ahead of time it's "supposed" to happen so not preventing it. Like in the Will Ferrell movie _Stranger Than Fiction._
But I don't understand the others being canon or not being canon. That Captain Stacy finds out Peter is Spider-Man and then has to die rescuing an innocent child. OK, is this more guilt for Peter, or to make him have a martyr complex or did he feel he'd done enough and needed a reminder? Gwen seems to know that one of her canon events mirrors that of Peter: Peter dying is a reflection of Gwen dying. So does the love of their life have to die? Will that mean that Spider-Woman's husband will have to be killed and she just has to accept it?
I reckon Miguel knows about all this, but he's doing it to make other spider people suffer even more, it's like If I can't have good things you can't have good thing, he's extremely broken after the incursion tragedy
Great video once again, I've had to argue these points with one of my friends before. Idk how people don't realize that Miguel is wrong. He's saying that Miles Morales shouldn't be Spider-Man in the Miles Morales Spider-Man movie loll.
The movie hasnt explicitely shown weather hes right or wrong
@@silcoxjakob yes, but he is. From inconsistencies in Miguel's story to the fact that he's the main character. Miles being wrong would be the dumbest writing decision ever. Itsv established that anyone can wear the mask and then atsv challenged what we established in the first film.
@@arrowpaw1847but they didn’t challenge it, our miles was never supposed to be spiderman, earth 42s miles was supposed to be spiderman that’s what Miguel is talking about
@@chrishardin9774 he explicitly says that Miles isn't Spider-Man because of that. Yes Miles was an accident but that doesn't mean he's not Spider-Man, I'm still a human even though my parents didn't mean to have me.
There are two other MCU nods in this movie, the Sacred Timeline as depicted in Loki and AM&TW: Quantumania (confirmed by some people involved in the movie) as well as 199999/616M Aaron Davis fully suited up as The Prowler (confirmed by concept art listing him as such).
With that in mind, another possibility for what Miguel experienced is that he broke the Absolute Point in that universe’s timeline. As the variant of The Ancient One explained to her world’s Strange in What If, each universe has certain events that must transpire. This differs from what Miguel describes as Canon Events in that is not something that’s the same in every universe, but rather an event specific to that universe. That’s why Christie Palmer is destined to die in the universe in question but not the main MCU, as that was the variant universe’s origin story for Doctor Strange becoming Sorcerer Supreme (a title he never attained in the main MCU). Miguel circumventing the Absolute Point of Gabriella losing her father must’ve triggered that Absolute Point. The main thing going against this theory is the fact that the universe itself would fight him on making sure the Absolute Point still happened, hence the Doctor Strange variant’s failed attempts to save Christine. So your theory about the incursion is probably more likely.
We see how Miguel clearly isn't the most stable person...What If he did in fact push for it and isn't telling the whole story of it's collapse. Incursion events can't be triggered randomly either...Someone somewhere has to intentionally start it with Dreamwalking or destroying one earth through very unorthodox means that causes a domino effect of earths colliding with other earths in every reality.
Which something tells me they're not going into incursions for the simple reason that they're not ready to wipe out the entire multiverse they're only now fully exploring. That they're not going to kill everyone in these films.
Miguel is clearly paranoid because of severe trauma, we obviously can't blame him for that.
However, this makes him short sighted and not open to more possibilities
The spider bite is also considered a canon event, so why aren't either of the Miles' universes breaking? That was the first thing that made me question canon events.
If canon events aren’t real that means probably in the next movie Miles’s dad won’t die and maybe everyone in Miguel society is going to realize that he was lying. But that’s just a theory.
Tbh I don't think he's lying
Just feels more misinformed
Nah, it would just show that, if you're in your dimension, saving the police captain, father or uncle isn't imposible
@@thebruh2019 Depends on if he's an Evil Variant intentionally manipulating fate or if he's truly fundamentally come to the wrong conclusion. Either way he's done something wrong and must be stopped from making it worse for everyone...Because the logical conclusion to his way of things being absolute is that he will be the one to end the entire existence of the Multiverse. Because both Miles actually exist to save it, He's ignoring the actual threat of the Spot and that the future visions show dozens if not hundreds of Spider-People dead and gone.
a film theory
canon events:aren't real
miguel:insert here that "i made a mistake" scene in the miles intro segment
I personally think that Canon Events are both Miguel's interpretation of events beyond his control and his excuse to police universes. He can't accept that the multiverse is chaotic to the point of being undefinable and uncontrollable so he cordons off specific universes so he can force what he thinks is right onto the lives of other Spider People. Logically speaking, no matter what events happen, that is now the canon, the canon of a story is fluid, not set in stone.
don't stop talking about gwen! your voice matters on it and clearly ppl appreciate it enough to subscribe. it's like you created a little safe community for Gwen lovers. being dramatic is fine- it's for the video
Fr the d riding for gwen is at a all time high
honestly i think the pit in Pav's dimension wasn't related to the canon at all. it's just another one of Spot's... well, spots. Since he's an anomaly, he couldn't have caused a canon event because that just wouldn't make any sense according to Miguel's theory.
But u guys are forgetting when Miguel said if you break too much cannon event, the universe is going to destroy…
Key word (too much), Miguel, being in a different dimension, was breaking more and more canon, which made the universe destroy
2:36 the dead Miguel's daughter was supposed to become Spiderman in that dimension. Since Miguel replaced him, she never became Spiderman. Meaning that universe had no Spiderman, leading to collaspe
Bro really said "look danger in the face and say: what's up"
honestly, the theory of Miguel causing an incursion was on my mind when i rewatched doctor strange 2
"you are the only spider man who isnt funny we are supposed to be funny"
-peter b parker
miguel dont joke because he got no spidey sence and he has to pay more attention to be alert unlike other spider who joke and rely on spidey sence to warn them.
i seriously dont get why people give the attention of hate towards gwen.i mean she didnt have a choice,she doesnt wanted to face her problems(dad and having no friend) in her universe. she had to follow miguels order so he doesnt send her home.she,in the start of movie said she didnt waant to hurt him but she did. as soon as she got a mission in miles universe she went to visit him immediatly while following the order of miguel and following his desire to see miles,but in the end she lost both. miles and here relation broke and got betryed by the spider society. some say she got what she deserve and now miless on spiderbyte,i mean WHAT the heck??! anyhow later she learnt from miles everything is possible so she builds a team to help miles and redeem herself. i get the pain miles felt of lossing, felling betrayed by his friend,lossing his relation with gwen and getting jealous but i think hobie was doing this to tease miles and get this reaction. i mean when he first appeared on the screen he said^is this the guy from 1610 which means gwen talk about her oftenly and he knowns how he fell bout miles.
"In every other universe gwen stacy falls for spider man and in everyother universe it doesnt end well" it didnt end her for well
also love ur content.😎
Actually, Miles is part of the Canon too, anomaly or not, when he came to be Spiderman, let's just say his Earth is pretty fine with him being the Spiderman in her, so, the moment he become and showed that he will keep the legacy of his Peter alive, the canon included him in their plans, Miles already lost the guardian/father figure, the tutorial pain every Spiderman suffer, now it's time for his Gwen Stacy type of tragedy, I know that some peoples replies Spider-Ham's quote, that even if you can't save everyone, you at least had to try, but, Peter did this, he was put in a situation between saving innocent civilians and Gwen, Peter choosed to save both, but unfortunately ended up only saving the civilians.
In Spider-Gwen's Case, the canon probably changed for her, because she didn't care and cut any emotional bond with her father after her Peter's Death Incident, she's lonelier(if not more or mostly tied to Peter B)
But in Peter's Case, an opportunity for happiness is right in front of him, he was just too afraid to catch and reach it in the first movie, that happiness being Mary Jane.
Gwen in another hand, didn't try to fight destiny for two reasons
1° She pretty much was done with her Father, so, a other death to her wouldn't hurt that badly, she isolates herself so quick as much she can to not hurt or let other peoples around her have the same tragic fate her Peter had.
2° Peter in Raimi's Spiderman 2 was willing to isolate himself permanently in order to be full time Spiderman, he was mean it in his farewell to a civilian and normal life, but his full life being Spiderman wouldn't be that lonely because MJ chooses to stay by his side, regardless of the dangers she may could live.
Spider Gwen didn't have that lucky with her, so she cut any emotional ties with anyone, so, The Canon seeing that a Spider Person, was willingly to make the hardest and most impossible and unthinkable decision a Spiderman could give and choose, that being letting a loved one die in order to save and let the multiverse intact, Fate smiled to Gwen and let her father live(she pretty much did the same thing as Insomniac's Spiderman did, with the difference is that it's not a whole fucking multiverse was in game, just NY)
So in the case of Miles, he has to let the thing happen, even when he's aware that is about to, he don't have to intervene, in the case of Peter, he wasn't aware or was thinking that his Gwen could die, he was certain and confident enough he was going to save her, but that wasn't the way the things end up being for him.
I honestly feel like Miguel created the Spider-Society as a trauma bonding coping mechanism to deal with the tragic events that happened to him. Maybe he and other Spider-People find it comforting to know that the tragic events in their life is what made them to be Spider-Man, but staying in that feeling for too long can blind you to any thing that takes you out of that zone, that you'd perceive it as a threat. Whether it's a place or a person, and in Miguel's case, it's Miles. Miles' youth, optimism and wanting to do things differently as a positive change agent is seen a threat to Miguel, the Spider-Society he created, and the Spiderverse at large. He's so stuck and locked in his pain that he blindly rejects any alternative ways on how to be a Spider-Man and saving people, yet his theory on the disruption of Canon events has so many hole that you can poke and prod at and other Spider-People start to doubt it and have a change of mind. Although I do feel sympathy for him, given through what he has gone through.
(Gonna go a LGBTQ tangent, and if that offends you, I recommend that you do some self reflection and look yourself in the mirror and ask why I hate people who are different.)
Miguel honestly reminds me of some older queer folks who have paved the way the community and/or who have experienced a lot of hatred, pain and trauma from loved ones who have a lot of animosity for younger queer folks, especially non-binary and trans folks (pretty relevant to ASTV since there is a "PROTECT TRANS KIDS" poster in Gwen's room in her universe, and her world and costume is bathed in the trans flag). These older queer people are a minority, but they vehemently hate the existence of young nb and trans folks because they believe that their experience is of queerness is inherently different from theirs, especially if they have accepting, loving, affirming and protective parents who shield them from harm and hatred. They find their existence offensive and will do anything to ruin their lives, especially if they have influence and power.
My family dying is my canon events 😂
Oh… 😭
A few things. Following the main points of the video;
Of the events we've seen thus far that could be seen as "canon events being altered/ interrupted" we have five of importance. The first few being Earth-42 Spider bite; which made Earth-42 Miles into the prowler and Earth-1610 Miles into Spiderman was one and two simultaniously, three was Officer Stacy deciding to quit the force before becoming Cpatain, four being Miles saving officer Singh, and five being Miguel replacing himself in another dimension. Note that in the first three events, there was no real outside influance that created these changes. They were all the result of the choices of characters in their own rexpective universes. Whereas the only times we've seen universal backlash had been when characters from outside the universe they are currently visiting making changes (i.e: Miles saving officer Singh instead of Pav and Miguel taking the place of his alternate universe self instead of him just "staying dead").
If they wanted to, they could say that is is not THAT an event is interrupted, but HOW it is interrupted. However, yes, these phenomina all smack of incursions and it would be much more likely. Perhaps it could be a little of both, as incurions aren't super fleshed out. I don't think Miguel is lying, I just think he's wrong and is starting to realize the magnitude of what that means.
"I don't like what I have to do... but I know I have to be the one to do it... I've given up too much to stop now..."
To fill in the gaps for 2099, he has powers that are more in line with how spiders actually work.
Miguel has proportinal stregth and reflexes of a spider, speed fast enoug to leave an after-immage, claws in his hands and feet to cling to walls instead of just being sticky, telescopic/untra violet/infra red/night vision, fangs that deliver a paralytric neurotoxin, and an excelerated healing factor along with his advanced intelligence from being a top Alchemax scientist. The injections he's taking are not to stabalize or balance his powers, they're an enhancing drug that magnifies his abilities. Kinda going along with his new stronger body and determination. If you look at the animation that plays after the initial injection it's not changing his DNA, just clinging to it and magniying it, as shown in the flashing in his eyes when it's complete.
This was a very well made video and opinion about Canon events.
However, My personal theory is that Canon events ARE real, however the corruption only begins when it’s corrupted by another dimensions’ Spider-Man. If you think about it, Mumbattan almost immediately started to get corrupted, after Miles saved Inspector Singh. And how did Gwen’s universe not immediately crash or start crashing at all? She personally talked her dad out of it (being captain) In addition, besides Canon events seeming very fishy and very much like the type of thing an AI would just fill the gaps, it’s kind of hard to believe every Spider story HAS to have some of the same parts. Like, kind of a side tangent but I’m pretty sure one of the events I saw in the interlining webs was Spider-Man getting married. Could you imagine some of these Spider-Man getting married? Like I would pay money to see who the love interest of the Spider Popsicles’ lover is. Or SpidersMan, Ben Riley, you get it.
I do get it! I actually agree with this argument too… I think canon events can be real, but they only show a universe being affected when a spider from an alternate dimension breaks it, so you’re right on that. Also, seeing Spider-Popsicle’s wedding would be hilarious. Thanks for watching!
Bro love these videos, I like how Miles is facing off thousands of spidermen to save his father 🥲Miles is a true man... I also think Miguel just doesn't want to lose anymore friends/family which is why he said "we are" but actually what Miguel is doing is wrong.
Gwen: 'Oh my dad isnt gonna die... I fucking new it. Shit, I gotta go sort shit out with Miles.'
Miguel shouldn’t even have canon events because he made himself Spider-Man he was not bit.
Your spider-verse videos are so good and honestly hilarious at moments as well. Very good stuff
Miguel was not bit by a radioactive spider despite that being one of the canon events right?
Yep and neither was Jess drew or Ben rielly.
Or peni parker
@@jc_art_ Peni actually was, we see it in her/Noir’s/Ham’s backstory of ITSV
I'm guessing no i don't know why but yeah i actually do know why but it was just like joke
@@jc_art_ peni was bitten by a radioactive spider, its shown in her intro sequece(alongside with ham and noir)
No he’s not. Miguel O’Hara is not fit to be a leader this man has a lot of trauma he has to work through so he doesn’t blow his fuse and project all his insecurities on Miles or anyone who questions him
So does this mean that in ITSV, if Peter B stayed in 1610 to turn off the collider, he would've caused an incursion? Or would he have died before that happened?
I was hoping you would make a Miguel video!!! Really nice analysis.
That bald Miguel pic caught me off guard lol
Miguel 928B: DONT YOU GET IT!? CANON EVENTS MUST HAPPEN OR THE REALITY WILL IMPLODE UPON ITSELF, JUST LET ME KILL YOUR GWEN STACY!
Peter 96283: If Gwen is supposed to die, then why hasn't my reality collapsed then?
(Miguel 928B devolves into incoherent rage and screaming)
Peter 96283: That's what I thought.
When you mentioned the possibility (probably hard truth) that Miguel has been surrounded by so many people that think they're comedians/probaby annoy the shit out of him with one-liners everyday, I started laughing so hard idk why something so true was that groundbreaking to me (cus Miguel being miserable is funny to me)
I just started the video and I’m already laughing. “It’s big American Cheeseburger time” I CANT LMAO- 💀😭
I love it every time you tangent on to Gwen
I think Miguel and Kingpin might have some correlation to each other, they both messed with a Collider or some type of multiversal travel device so that they could be back with their families, so Miguel might not be what he seems, just a thought 🤷.
9:36 Yes, I think it's because of the collidor, too. In fact, I think the universe Miguel had moved to got distroyed by that as well.
It's still possible that Miguel being there prevented somebody from becoming Spider-Man. But I don't think the universe's destruction was the direct result of that. If Alchemex has establishments across the multi-verse, isn't it a possibility that there was nobody to stop Kingpin from turning on the machine and causing this destruction?
(That could even be what Peter from 1610 saw in the multiverse. That's how he knew Kingpin's plan wasn't gonna work.)
Somebody call me stupid and "bad man" because i say, that Spiderman shouldn't just stay and watch that someone die because some big blue guy that said that its canon event. "Oh, you horrible man. Your decision kills everyone in this universe. I would let that person die even if im Spiderman, im supposed to save him but im not gonna do it. Big blue guy cant be wrong."
gwen is probbably gonna bond more with 1610 captain morales and his death'll be a cannon even for the both of them
Pretty sure not every canon event happens to every spider person. The comics would be all identical
The only multiverse Spiderman who I think can actually square up against Miguel and get him to lay off Miles is Spider Noir. Nobody else has proven to successfully stand up to Miguel but Noir is a tough guy who likes to fight and is a force to be reckoned with. Miles will expose 2099 but Noir will make him fall back and force him to back off of Miles
9:08 yeah he gets his powers from dna splicing cuz in the comics he wanted to quit his job but his boss had drugged him with a drug called rapture which bonds to the dna so like you cant get over the addiction (alchmex was the only company allowed to legally distribute rapture) so he tried to use the dna splicing machine to get rid of it. One goon messes with the machine during the procedure giving the spider abilities. I thoght on my first watch that Miguel was injecting himself with rapture until i remembered he cured himself
I love this guys vids so much don’t stop!!!
@Serpent Sir so, in the 2099 storyline Miguel gets his powers from splicing his DNA with a spider's. he gets fangs, paralytic venom, superhuman conditioning, talons/claws in his hands and feet, superhuman senses similar to Dare Devil, and organic webs shooting from the tops of his wrists. he doesn't get the spidersense or electrostatic wallcrawling. there are other variations in spider powers like Silk's (Cindy Moon). she's less physically strong than Pete but she has a heightened spidersense and is faster and more agile. she also shoots organic webbing from her fingertips. Ezekiel Sims got his powers from some dark ritual and all of Pete and Miles' clones were technically never bitten either. those examples alone disprove at least the spider bite canon event.
I think Miguel’s home didn’t get destroyed was because going to the happy universe might have been a cannon event for him but I will say this is a stretch because a cannon event can’t disrupt another but the formation of the spider society (probably needed to happen because of a cannon event) didn’t cause a black whole and all the spider men from there universes didn’t get there universes erased so I don’t know how his would have gotten erased by him leaving his universe because his purpose was to create the spider society. NERDS DONT SAY ANYTHING
How can we even prove that incursion actually happened? He says “Right, Peter?” to Peter in a threatening way to back him up. Peter didn’t seem keen on agreeing with him. I think Miguel is making it up into this Godly incident that only he can prove. My thing is, why was Peter there in the first place??
Miguel comes across as a cult leader. He’s keeping his followers based on threats and fear.
WhAtS uP dAnGeR yEa WaSuP dAnGeR I just love that pun there when he says say whats up to dangers face
Big American Cheesburger time was apart of a Spider-Gwen’s toy packaging
Hey, massive thanks for making these spider verse videos, really enjoying them all. The idea that the incursion caused the disruption of Miguel's universe seems reasonable, but I think you should've mentioned it in the video of Miles and Gwen ending up together cuz it makes it almost impossible (at least settling down in one universe) :/
Edit: I just realized that there is a comic where they got married and even had kids.. how? (are those comics related to the spider verse?)
Thank you! Also yes they end up together in a comic, and while I don’t remember exactly how it works, basically there are requirements for both Gwen and Miles’ universes to reach the utopia that is Earth-8 (the one they’re married in).
I think those comics will be related. Perhaps Gwen or Miles will visit the universe where they’re both married and it’ll help them reinforce the idea that they can truly be together. How it all works? I have no clue right now, I’ll just go with comic magic lol
@@serpentsir Thanks for replying!
@Serpent Sir Miguel doesn’t actually have Spider Powers because his lab assist botched his cure a crackhead test research.
He injects himself with red juice because it stops his craving for blood. As Miguel is known for being the vampire spider.
If Miguel wants, he can literally turn people into soup and eat them.
Do he takes the red stuff, probably blood of some sort to calm the spliced part of his DNA 🧬 down.
Which is why in the Across The Spiderverse movie is why he tried to sink his fangs into a villain but got caught by the helicopter people.
That’s also why his eyes turn bloodshot too, it’s the spider genes slowly taking over.
Miguel also has no spider sense given he wasn’t bitten by a radioactive spider and he can’t web sling either.
Miguel just wants his cult to be just as miserable as he is.
Ohh!! Yeah, he sounds miserable lol... when I saw him try to bite Vulture, I was like--uhh ok!!!! Now I know why--thanks for this explanation!!
I have a good theory. You know how at the first movie when kingpin was activating the collider the whole world started to glitch around and like it was all going to explode before miles stopped it by beating kingpin? My theory is that the universe that got destroyed had an Alchemax just like miles and pavtir's universe did and they both had colliders so its really likely that the universe that was shown to be destroyed was the cause of the collider that couldn't be stopped since miguel's death was supposed to play an important role in stopping the collider. But because Miguel replaced himself that reason was gone so the collider couldn't be stopped and the universe was destroyed in the same glitchy way Miles's was when kingpin was activating the collider.
What could have happened if Mile's didn't stop the collider in his universe it would meet the same fate that Miguel's did. The only reason how all the spiderman were not effected when that universe was being destroyed where Miguel replaced himself is most likely because of their watches that kept them from glitching so it also made them immune to the effects of the supposed collider in universe miguel replaced himself. So in general while canon events does exist. It's really likely that breaking them really dont destroy the multiverse. Miguel just doesn't know the actual reason why his universe was destroyed where he replaced himself and thats why i think the collider did it. Also yeah maybe miguel's death was supposed to make his daughter become spiderwomen in order to stop the collider. Either that or just an entirely different spiderman from that universe
Isn’t weird how “canon events” can be broken so easily if the whole universe depends on it?
One thing to point out about Miguels replacement universe disappearing. In Into the Spider-Verse, we are shown that replacing a Spider-Man did nothing to the world. When Brad Pitt Peter died, nothing happened. And when Peter B came into the universe, that could classify as a replacement. Nothing happens.
As other have pointed out, that black hole was designed after Spot and the first movie described the Collider as summoning a black hole underneath Brooklyn. Spot who had just combined with a collider probably has that power.
Gwen needs another video about her perspective because u can’t stop talking about her which means we are going to need an explanation
I agree. I'll make a million more Gwen videos if y'all need it!
But incursions did not happen when Miguel hosted billions of Spidermen on his Earth.
another example I've seen highlighted is that the earth 42 spider that bit miles was dead for a while until is was taken by spot and that was also from another universe so it doesn't make sense that the others from a different universe without a watch can be the cause of a dimension unravelling otherwise Earth 1610 would have unraveled already
THIS is what ive been saying!! I really enjoy your videos :D I cant wait for more!! (and gwen is my favorite character so i love all the gwen content!!)
Thank you!! And yes, I’ve found a fellow Gwen fan 🫡🫡
I don't think Canon Events are real,
Earth 42 still exists, despite the most major canon event was interrupted getting bit by radioactive spider.
My reasoning for thinking about canon events is if your from a different universe and interrupt directly a canon event it causes the universe to corrupt. But in a case like Hobbie leaving something for Gwen and talking to Gwen's dad a bit but not forcing him to change his role. I think it's if the original person/people from their universe changes something then it won't cause the universe to implode. Like Peter B had Mayday because he meet Miles and he go back with Mj. There's to many inconsistencies and that Miguel went to a different universe where he was dead breaking said canon in that universe he wasn't a part og.
Miguel is angry all the time cause Peter B and Jessica run around missions putting their kids in danger.
Great analysis!
Bro is a spider dork 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 You actually own the Miles Morales Costume
I can’t wait for Beyond the Spider-Verse where Miles uses talk no Jutsu to beat spot
I like the canon event thing because it's a word I'm not familiar with so it's fun learning about it even though it's kinda stupid
if you look where the building fell(while being consumed by dark matter), it lands right where the supposed reaction to the disrupted cannon event is. obviously not the aftermath of a canon event. speaking of which, how in the hell does an anomaly like spot trigger a canon event, if anomalies supposedly are "canon-killers"? Lastly, remember the guy that miles was hiding on the back of in the chase scene? he was one of the spider scientists meant to deal with the dark energy. mind you, miguel said literally 2 minutes before that theyd be lucky to stop the dark energy from spreading. at the very same time, the scientists were probably already finished containing it. now miguel might not know about that, but come on he has cameras literally everywhere, he definitely knew that theyd saved mumbattan already
good news is that once migel figures this out he can focus on fixing it by just making sure that travelers dont cause incersions. also if his watches completly stop people from causing incersions that would be an awsome thing to be floating around the connected universe
But Miguel is probably too gung-ho about "Canon Events" and too mentally broken to do so
From what I've been able to gather about Miguel, he got his spider DNA when someone/group of people (pretty sure it was some coorporate bs cuz in his verse in the comics he's president of Alchemex i think) tried to drug him with a super addictive drug in his universe but something got switched/mixed up and he got the spider dna thing instead? I'm not super sure on all the details myself, but basically, yes, he is not a "traditional" Spiderman either.
7:40 I'll differ on that because there's a difference between cameos or references with actual cannon.
Am really glade that cannon events are real in that universe and in the real world am just happy and feel safe
That first “we are” giving off serious “This planet isn’t *yours* to conquer” energy
Makes sense cause Miguel is the future fla- I mean, future Spider-Man… possible foreshadowing?
in into the spiderverse its said like 3 times that if the collider is activated it will create a black hole above the brooklyn, the business in munbattan is definitively the collider and the spot's fault
MIles has looked danger in the face (The danger being Miguel) & pretty much told him "You're not going to tell me what I can & can't do you aren't going to dictate my life on being Spider-Man). And Miguel didn't like being told "No" go along with the program kid this is what you signed up for "Um no most of the spider people didn't sign up to be Spider-Man."
Well Gwen’s father quitting wasn’t directly Gwen’s fault
IF these are incursions, how is Miguel able to host hundreds if not thousands of spiders in Earth-928 without it collapsing?
Jaden Smith as an outro song is FIRE
Something that I noticed is that in the first movie when Peter Parker is talking to miles, he says that if king pen turns the colider on again that everything and everyone he knows will disappear. Just like what happed in miguels world, everything and everyone disappeared. So I think that in the world that miguel was in had the colider on. Along with everything he said in the video. Truly proving that cannon events aren't real.
If you cant stay in a universe long cause of incursions, that means Gwen cant stay in Mile's universe (or viceversa). Doesn't that mean they kinda have to remain friends, or at most kiss and then dip?
No pls
Those are some good points, like that it might have been Miguel's incursion lasting years that finally triggered something causing that world's destruction around him. In which case, having pieces of spider-venom or DNA inside Miles for years, might have put his universe Earth-1610 in danger. Originally, it was the visitor that was in danger from glitching, but if Miguel's device prevents glitching maybe it also triggered that world's destruction? I wonder if Miles ever noticed his spider-powers glitching?
However, going forward I was thinking Miles maybe felt some responsibility for Earth-42 not having a Spider-Man, even though it really wasn't his fault. So I thought he might want to jump back and forth between universes to protect his own city and put the other one right. But if there is something called Fate or an Author making canon, then wouldn't Miles have to fight a villain in Earth-1610 that was "made" for the Spider-Man that died who had something like 10 years of experience, and therefore would be too much for Miles?
Man, you are a genius. Thank you for making these videos, to help show others that they are wrong. Some ppl smh
I am wondering if the Canon Event is similar to an Absolute Point that was brought up in the Marvel What If show with Dr Strange. Him trying to undo an absolute point (Christine Palmer’s death) cause his universe to collapse.
This man is areal life miles morales bro got the suit,the obsession for gwen😂lol
ok about the incursions....
if miguel staying in that earth is what caused it
then why all the spider society's existance didn't made earth 928 explode yet?
we know that miguel started recruiting spider man since the end of ITSV where he goes into earth 67, we also see peter B in the colapse of the earth where miguel was wich means that the spider society already existed
if miguel's multiversal tech wasnt enought to stop a dimension from incursioning then why 928 didn't go boom?
Well that because it implies that one the tech they use to not glitch is helping and two they stay in that tower until they either go back home or is assigned a mission there not going out of hq solving crimes and all that so not "cannon events" are being unweaved by the said spider society