10mm VS .357 Mag VS .44 Mag ALL 180 gr XTP
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มิ.ย. 2021
- Testing out 10mm, .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum using loads that all have the same bullet weight and similar energy to test the difference in sectional density. I am doing a ballistics gel test with all. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221
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One thing I was trying to explain and could not get the words for in the field, is that probably the reason the .44 Mag had more recoil than the .357 Magnum is because it is more powerful than the .357 Magnum, thus more recoil. I know people will say "But Gun Sam, you showed that this particular .44 Mag is less powerful than that particular .357 Magnum?". And my answer would be, no I did not. I showed that in 4" barrels the .357 Magnum retained more of it's potential energy as where the .44 Mag lost more potential energy. Both of these loads in rifles I would have no doubt that the .44 Magnum would have more energy thus this makes more recoil in a 4" revolver even though the energy does not reflect this.
i think this video shows more then most that ammo choice matters tuning the ammo to the gun is as important as the gun
sam: pull a bullet from each case and weight the powder charge then go to shooterscalculator.com and you can find out the recoil for each firearm you used. my guess is the .44 mag has a heavier powder charge.
Possible contributing factors for the .357 shooting ‘lighter’, barrel having a full underlug, maybe the bore sight height difference. These smallest differences, plus more yet to be revieled are the reasons.
I still have to admit that I was suprised that the 357 had more penetration than the 44 even though you explained the fact that the 44 was a lighter load
@@randomizationdrills5372 "more yet to be revealed"...that would be included in the formula at shooterscalculator.com. everything is taken into account. check it out, lot of fun. or if you like doing math, the back of the lyman manual has the formula in the long form.
I like it,.. 357 Magnum the oldest cartridge of the three and still the king.
Testing .357 against a pup 44 mag load is the only way a .357 comes out on top. The test is near useless for comparing the three calibers to each other. Using the same bullet weigh is a good idea but all loads must be full power loads. Ballistics matter. 10 mm max energy is around 700 ftlbs, .357 around 800 ftlbs, 44 mag 1200 ftlbs. Out of the right gun 1400 ftlbs. I would not want to get hit by any of them but 44 mag is the top dog of the three by a large margin.
@@billb410 yes, indeed,.. 357 rules!
@@billb410 not so. You can get 10mm loads that are over 800ft lbs
@@billb410 this was not a full power 10mm load.
@@Wildwestwrangler still doesn't matter comparing it to 44. Buffalo bore loads a 340gr bullet that has over 1,500 ft lbs of energy. Dam near twice the energy as the hottest 10mm.
All of them a good enough for a bad guy who is trying to kill or harm you, or another innocent person.
As it is, your Frankenstein Glock would be a good training piece for clearing jams because it’s so consistent ! 😜😂
The. 357 is 86 years old. It was the most powerful pistol load to come out first. Everyone is still trying to complete with it. Yes there are plenty of super powerful pistol load out there over the 357 but after all this time it still one of these best load out there still can't say it's doesn't work. That why I carry one everyday.
This is why I love my .357mag. I carried one for over 25 years while a LEO and now a snubby is my CCW of choice.
Different purposes here like you said. The 10mm & 44mag at 180gr are light for caliber, especially the 44mag, 10mm maybe not as much. The 357mag never disappoints! The others are really nice as well, I just prefer 357mag for my purposes. Thx!
In the 10mm, the 180 is pretty much the "standard" weight that optimizes velocity and energy. I agree that it is light for the .44 and is a heavyweight in the .357. Now, put some more powder in those .44 cases behind that slug and it will shred gel, though with much less penetration.
I think the OG 10mm Auto was 170gr (FMJ-TC) at 1350fps. I've used 200gr as my goto handloads for 30 years, but still think of 180gr as "normal". 200gr limits limits how high I'm willing to load in energy, as it sits rather deep in the case, but Im ok with a "mere" mid 500s fpe on a glock 20. Using 170-180 will get you more energy in a safe load, similar to hot loaded 357mag in a wheelgun for hunting with 180gr .357 bullets. For hunting, 357mag 180gr at equal energy with a strong nonexpanding bullet is going to be better. But 200gr 10mm Auto is stable from a g20, while 180gr 357mag isn't always stable from regular service pistols. The later needs a bit more twist than a standard handgun, doable but needs to be accounted for.
Great lesson on SD. I love that 180 xtp from the 357. Great woods carry
Dude you rock.You're the first person to use a 5 inch semiauto vs a 4 inch revolver as a fair comparison.I've known for years that you lose 1 inch of barrel length in a auto due to the fact that the chamber is in the barrel.Love you're vids.Keep up the good work.
ive always liked comparing the maximum energy loads for each caliber. i LOVE those buffalo bore 180 grain 357s they are amazing for deer from a rifle length barrel
Except you didn’t
@@curmudgeonextraordinaire1884 you dont know what i do on my free time?
@@lanemerrill It almost seems like there are people dont believe there are other people that just shoot actual guns. I would never shill for a company tho, I dont really want to buy some half assed corporate round produced with max pressure, minimum cost, and a disclaimer that it will destroy my gun. I can do that myself handloading, and it has proven cheeper overall.
Thank you. This video just reinforces my love for 357 mag. It has got to be one of the most versatile calibers of all time.
This is why you are the best ammo tester on youtube man, great insight and good content
This is why my edc is a 357 mag
Great video Sam that .357 round would go through a house even an old post and beam like mine
initial acceleration of the Bullets in the 357 vs the 44 probably accounts for the recoil even though the 357 was faster when it left the barrel the long heavy bullet in the 357 had less area for the expanding gas to press on initially but as the bullet moved down the tube the large dose of slow burning powder outpaced the 44.The 44 when fired had much more surface for the fast burning powder gasses to press on giving rapid acceleration but as it moved down the tube pressure from the fast burning powder charge quickly dropped reducing acceleration in comparison to the large charge of slow powder in the 357
In a hypothetical scenario, where you only have to pick one caliber and one cartridge for this caliber for defense and hunting, I would definitely choose 180 gr .357 magnum xtp from buffalo bore. It is the most powerful 357 round so far, it has higher than normal penetration for hunting and wildlife defense, while still being seemingly as good or better as regular powered 357 magnum loads against two legged predators. One size fits all!
10mm
@@danoneill2846 100%.
10mm can make more power, has a better range of bullet weights & comes in guns with far better capacity than a typical .357 Mag would be.
@@pewpew9193 A 10mm can’t even come close to the power of a properly loaded heavy 357 mag round, but using regular factory ammo from any good manufacturer, they will run close. Be well, shoot straight my friend.
That 686 and the 357 cartridge balance out one another nicely.
Good test , shows the difference between S D & how bullets work against a target . The 44 starts out larger , more area up front !
Thanks!
Great test! Back when I lived in PA I kept my Marlin 1894 loaded with 180 gr JHP's for HD for both 4 and 2 legged critters
That 357 would be a good round for deer. Thanks for the test.👍👍
We all look forward to the day Sam gets a real 10 mil... Stay safe everyone
I like the reduced recoil .44 magnum idea and all. But I think the most ideal firearm for home defense is always going to be a carbine or shotgun.
Great demonstration of the difference between sectional densities and at similar velocities. Something that is often overlooked in other videos. Really appreciate your work. 👍
The test I've been looking to see, thanks for taking the time to make this video.
Shoot it again Sam! Still proving that .357 magnum reigns supreme. Nice shooting that .44 magnum too. Very nice groupings. 🎩☯️♠️
Thanks
@@GunSam Yw
There was a lrrp at Dakto they had there own bunker I was a door gunner how I got to know them one whose name was Darrel had a 357 6 inch barrel He was very happy with it used to go out sometimes by self with only pistol always came back
Saved this to watch later. Gunsam is the new tnoutdoors love it. Cheers from Canada
You've come a long way bro. Interesting to watch you grow in the craft over time.
Love all your comparisons thus far I knew the 357 180 gr would beat 10mm you have proven it time and time again thanks dude
Another great video!
Great videos Sam thanks my brother!!!
This video is another good argument for leaving your gun internals factory-stock.
Good experiment, thanks for doing this.
The fact that all your shots with a double action revolver were fired in double action got a sub out of me.
Did you say sexual density?
Yes, he did. I'm not sure what that is though.
@@BobWillisOutdoors maybe it has something to do with “FULL PENETRATION”
I love your systematic approach to the subject, analytical conclusion and intelligible presentation as well as calm zen-like personality, i just wish your channel content was more aligned with my own interests, because i would love to watch more of your videos.
Very good comparison. Interesting info. Thank you.
Thank you.
Idk about 10mm or the 44. I have an sp101 357mag and no worries.
The 357 magnum is all you need. It is an extremely powerful round!
@@LA_Commander it is my home defense gun. It is very heavy for me to carry. I have an m&p ez I carry and a 25acp I carry when I wear shorts.
@@veganlifestyleloveanimals1744 oh wow ok, sounds like you are well prepared. For inside the house defense, I wouldn't recommend the full 357 round as you could lose your hearing if fired inside a room. 38 special +P is just fine for inside the house. I carry a Smith J frame airweight in 38+P in the summer when I'm in shorts. I would love to see your .25.
@@LA_Commander I have 38 +p hyrdo shok in my sp. I have a seecamp 25
no one would choose 180 gr bullets in a .357 mag for defensive use...(at least no one should!)
I love your range…beautiful
My dad's dad immigrated from Hungary and it was his land originally. Told my dad "cherish the land, God will make more people but NOT more land"
Love it!
Thanks, Always a good and interesting video. Plus nice 25 yard shooting. Take care.
Thanks!
I'd love to see the Remington green and white box 44 mag, 180 sjsp. I've never shot them through a chronograph, but they sound hot. This was a round that you used to easily get at Walmart...in the good ole days.
I ran the Federal version before. They are actually less powerful than 158 or 125 gr, it's probably the high pressure and muzzle rise making it seem like they might be more powerful than typical.
Good job. Thanks
But Gun Sam: great video my friend!!
Very cool video in probably the 3 most popular calibers right now besides the 9mm. Unfortunately you have a sooooo many viewers that don't understand sectional density no matter how many times you've explained. It was still very informative. I am glad you were able to buy some steel its much easier to see your hits. That was some pretty fine shooting with the 357. You looked like you really enjoyed that load and maybe just showing off a wee little bit😉
Really good - surprised about the .357
I like this comparison
This video is still just as relevant today
That conversion kit is your White Whale... we all have something we keep that we needed to toss. My Dad's was a 56 Pontiac he was always going to fix up one day.... he died before he could after it sat in the yard for 30 years. And we all have a safe queen we never should have bought. I feel for you...
Lone would would probably fix it for me.
That .357 is a bit juicy! 😵
Nice video👍
Thanks!
This is a good choice @4:40
I am getting ready to load some rounds for deer hunting with my 6" 357. This helped a lot choosing between 158 and 180xtp.
Looks like that 180 gr 357 would be a great choice for hog.
Use a rifle
For bear too 180gr and 153gr will do the job
Overall, 357 mag still is the best out there.. I found myself liking the 120g Extreme Defender for my carry rd.. 140g extreme Penetrator to hunt with..
For me, 44 is my number one!!!👍 UP for 10 and 357!
I would go with the 10mm. Simply because I can still find it, sometimes, in my local gun stores, and I can find .40 S&W also, and I have a conversion barrel in that for my Glock 20. I have not been able to find .357 or .44 magnum since March 2020. FWIW, both .40 and .45 ACP are significantly cheaper in my area than 9 mm since then (.75 vs $1 a round for 9mm). I live in California so all sales must be direct by a dealer, registered with the State DOJ and background checked. Have not gotten primers since March 2020 either. I will say its nice to have a light on your home defense gun and the Glock does nicely there. And expansion being velocity dependent I think this 10mm round would do nicely. Thanks Sam, great video as always!
Great video. I would never hunt deer and hogs with the .44 mag with less than a six inch barrel. Mine is 7 1/2". For everything else there is Ruger SP101 .357 mag.
Cool test
Thanks.
Also the difference in recoil could be due to bearing surface of the bullet on the rifling
@@randalljeffs7272 Could be part of it , weight up front , more weight . Very complex , I may not have it all , I have heard the force is = forward & back ?? Your point is more bullet drag pulling the gun forward against the recoil force to = less recoil ?? The 44 is bigger around & I don't know the area of each . could also be the size of the barrel & cylinder ?? All the drag difference could be very small ??
All three are excellent calibers. Would stop most threats in a hurry.
05:46 this channel sets and smashes the record for most malfunctions seen in a GLock pistol in a 13 minute time span!
ahhh! a conversion barrel, 10 mm cases with a .45 ACP slide/breech-face.... (still, would not expect that many malfunctions!)
Do it again with full power 44 mag please
i had a 10mm 1911 was not impressed back to tried and trusted 357 for me
I bought a Springfield 1911 Ronin Elite and love it. Accurate as hell with the fiber optic sights & adjusted trigger from the factory 6-1/2 pounds to 4-1/4 pounds. It hits harder than a .357 with full loads, plus has 9 +1 rounds, 10 +1 if you push a 9th round into the 8 round mag.
@@ronolson2024 lol no 10 mm don't hit harder than 357 lmao
That is quite the .357 load. Wow.
The most surprising thing to me was the results were as I would have predicted. Another surprise was how short this video was.
Haha, short! My next one is about this long too.
@@GunSam You've had some longer videos ;-).
I really like the .357 magnum. First gun I ever bought myself was a S&W M60 with a 3" barrel. It took me a while to get good at shooting it, but it was well worth it.
Some call the snubnose revolver antiquated, but I call it classic American firepower. Protecting Americans for 150 years.
Liked your video..357 is my truck gun and also have a lever action in the same caliber..but . Own a Glock 22 Gen 4... purchased a conversion kit for 9mm. Had the same issues with feeding. The new spring was my problem. I returned to the stock spring and have no feed issues anymore. Just a suggestion.
Perhaps the Recoil Spring in the pistol is the felt difference between 10mm & 44Mag ?
When you hand load you do find that not all powders are interchangeable across bullet weights & calibers. I am guessing powder difference in grains or type is what you felt. Might be a video topic.
The recoil on the 44 was more because of the space behind the bullet. More powder had to burn to get the same amount of pressure behind the bullet. There's essientially just a much bigger explosion going on in the gun to get the same velocity because more gases have to expand to get the pressure needes to move the bullet at a given velocity. Regardless of bullet weight, high caliber guns like to kick more.
New sub here. I've enjoyed your vids and will be back for more.
.357 every day, all day for this shooter.
Great video sam. 10mm is best mm . Look at that way. But 357 mag and 44mag is definitely the choice for woods carry if ur hunting or defending from teeth in claws in tusks .
Ty
What's the loaded ammo weight for each in grains? I'm interested to know the difference because ammo weight matters when you are backpacking in the woods and because the projectiles themselves are the same weight I'm wondering which one will be the most total weight efficient compared to their energy and versatility. Thank you
I don't know exactly, but U would assume the 10mm and .357 Mag are about the same and the .44 Mag is a little heavier. Just from observation anyways. However, .357 Mag is more typically 125 gr so you could carry a lot of those and just some heavier ammo.
More recoil of the 44 mag is "because it is more powerful than the .357 Magnum" - sorry, Sam, but it's a sheer nonsense - it is more powerful by design, not in this particular case. Here you fire a weak 44 mag and it is clearly reflected in the result (less foot pounds than 357 mag with the same bullet's weight). The only reason for stronger recoil I can think of, is the difference (however slight it is) between the ergonomics of these two revolvers.
but the .44 Mag is more powerful. Your nonsense would be like comparing a 9mm in a 5" barrel to a .357 Mag in a 2" and saying "both same" because both had 450 ft lbs, not realizing in a carbine the .357 Mag is 1,200 ft lbs while that 9mm only maxes out at 600.
@@GunSam But I DO think your test (comparison) is both: logical and interesting. I was only referring to the fact that this "reduced" 44 (although producing slightly less power - kinetic energy at the muzzle) recoiled more than the hot 357. My guess is that this is due to the difference in ergonomics of these two revolvers, that's all.
I use a sw 329xl hunter 44mag, handloaded to 700ftlbs. Fairly comfortable for that round. Accurate enough, soda cans at 30yrds fairly consistantly. However I have some factory loads, buffalo bore (I think) low recoil that are 1000ftlbs plus out of the same gun. Those though are a bit more recoil than I like. The 44 can be loaded all across the energy spectrum. Less than the 357 if you want, but more if you want.very versatile.
When comparing like this, I think it would be helpful to show a close up of the wound tracks and maybe measure the intial expansion at the beginning of the wound track
For me personally I like the Jug-or-not box better. The distruction of the 1st and 2nd jug coupled with over all penatration is more revealing. My opinion only.
Thanks
Titan I agree. The CBG does give you you the camera visual of catching the bullet. But the JONB just seems more realistic.
Admit it we love seeing the bologna explode with those hot magnum rounds
Great test! I'm glad you were able to point out the differences between calibers using the same weight. The more I watch testing, the more I realize that getting the best performance depends on the individual round. I don't feel comfortable carrying a round unless it been tested, ideally by more that one source, that proves it will expand and penetrate enough (not too much). The last thing you want is a round that is basically and expensive FMJ.
It’s a mater of life and death but I wonder how your ears would do if you ever had to fire a 44 magnum indoors? Ouch!
Who knows really. My brother is an audiologist and more or less he would say either the drums blow or they don't. Really, it's factory work that affects hearing.
@@GunSam I would hope they don’t. Ha!! I believe him I worked around jet aircraft for 20 years and in a factory for 16. It took it’s toll.
@@GunSam well after a ted nugent concert back in 1985, in a smaller building, i thought i went deaf. 3 days later my hearing was normal. was kinda worried for a while there.
@@carlschumacher3257 the 357 and 9mm are too of the loudest rounds I've ever had to deal with. It always makes me laugh when people want the faster most powerful you they can get for home defense just think about how that feel in a small room
@@biggunshandguns3687 true, that makes a good case for a subsonic suppressed 9 mm or 45 acp.
For you, that .357 is money when you get in a bind!
Nah, it's such a good gun that it would be one of the last I part with, unless you mean pulling it at a bank, as seeing that would speed up the normal process lol
@@GunSam, I mean when you need to shoot something, that gun is a go to, as you shoot it well.
Good video. Would like to see a comparison of what would be considered the ideal ammo for caliber for a stated purpose like self defense. Say in 38 special, 9mm, 327 Fed, 40 S&W and 357 mag. I know you've tested a lot so pick the best ammo for each, based on your experience.
Revolvers are so sexy. I have a choice between a Ruger new vaquero or a cimmeron evil Roy in 45 colt. I currently have a berreta stampede 45 colt. Do you like single action revolvers? I want to get into the cowboy shoots. I have a chiappa 1892 in 45 colt and an old side by side shotgun. I just need a 2nd revolver. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Great vid thumbs up.
My guess on the recoil difference between those L-Frames might be those 2oz of weight difference, the powders(differences in burn rate, peak pressure, charge weight) used in the different loads and possible grip angle differences
Interesting. Pretty much as expected. The 10mm and 44 were mirror images of each other, and the 357 penetrated more due to greater SD. Probably a great pig load. The 10mm looks pretty practical. I suspect 1 reaon for the lower recoil of the 357 is barrel profile. The 686 barrel has a full lug, which concentrates weight underneath the barrel, helping tame things. The 69 only has a regular ejector rod shroud. Assuming they use the same barrel blank, the 44 obviously has more meat drilled out of the barrel than the 357. It might only be 1 oz or so total over 4", but everything counts. Also, with more mass in the barrel of the 357, it allows gravity to exert a more concentrated downward pull, helping to reduce recoil and muzzle jump. That was what i meant in the first few sentences. I love my 1993 vintage 4" 686. It is probably the most accurate repeating handgun i own. Several other revolvers are close, but the 686 is it.
That's pretty basic for a 10 mm but very minor for a 44 Magnum I don't know where you've been for the last 10 years but 10 mm aren't that powerful anymore I'm not sure you go to Buffalo bore Underwood ammo otherwise this is about what you're going to get buddy unless of course you got to 135 grain
Bullet traveling in about 14-15 hundred feet a second
hey Sam, i like the gel testing, but i was initiated by you with the jug-0-naught. so i am biased with seeing the jug. gel gets seen all over the net, imho.
Excellent test
The concept & value of down loaded Ammo seems to be lost on many . ONE of the good things about 357 , 10mm & 44 is they can be loaded in a wide range of bullets & power . If they only came in +P bear loads , I would likely use a 45 , 9mm & 308 .
Man, that Glock 20 sure jams a lot!
..
..
..
(Maybe if you get enough of those comments, someone at Glock will get worried about their reputation and send you a free Glock 20.)
What's funny is I had to look closer, as I assumed it was another one of those comments on other videos.
I'm addicted to your videos, I really love them all!! Would You suggest the 125 gr over the 180 for that 686 4inch for self defense? The 125 gr bullets seemed to have less recoil and more velocity in a video You made some time ago...
Well the 125 is the most accepted choice for energy dump, it has a lot of street cred. The 158 gr is fine too, but for self defense the 125 gr guarantees a stopped attacker and no over penetration. Especially if it's a semi jacketed hollow point.
125 gr bullets from a .357 mag at 1450 fps are almost legendary for social/defensive purposes!!!!!!
What model is that 357 mag? Great video! Thanks.
Bon travail .
Sorry to do this this way but I don't know of any other way to get a message out. Have you ever seen a small red dot sight on a gp100? Been thinking about trying to find one but I need one that's really small and still effective. Any ideas?
Maybeso quick burning powder seems to kick less ports/ brakes help too.
At least that glock is consistently inconsistent 😂
My wife: "What are you watching?!?" Me: "A gun channel." Wife: why does he keep saying SEXUAL DENSITY???" Me: LOLOLOLOLOL She does look hot with her AR. Great video.
Did you put that slide spring in backward? Friend of mine accidentally did that on his Glock and it was jamming every shot. Range master showed him the problem: slide spring was turned around wrong way. Instantly fixed the problem.
I love the .357 Magnum. Like Jerry Miculak once said “the .357 Magnum is the standard on which all other rounds are judged. So if you have a .357 Magnum you have it all.”
no
Buffalo Bore lists that .44 Magnum load as tested at 1,387 FPS from a 4" M329PD barrel. You were getting a little less than that, which is probably desirable in the L-Frame M69. (A Scandium .44 Magnum is too spicy for my taste regardless of the load.)
What's interesting is that in my own, limited chronograph testing, major manufacturer .44 Magnum often exceeded listed velocity from my 5.5" Redhawk.
American Eagle 240gr. JHP: Box 1230, Chrono 1327
Federal (Blue Box) 240gr. JHP: Box 1230, Chrono 1315
Federal (Blue Box) 180gr. JHP: Box 1460, Chrono 1580
While this was with an old chronograph that later died on me, the felt recoil made it seem like the listed numbers were accurate.
If ammo companies are conservative with their .357 Magnum loads, they seem to be less so with their .44 Magnum ones.
You listed Federal. They use a 4" for test barrel, typically 4"V test barrel, so i'm not surprised your 5.5" exceeded that. As far as I know, most other ammo companies use a 6" barrel for their ratings.
👍 is the 357 your best shooter to you.
seems to be. I have a lot of test videos where I make a one hole group at 5 yards.
GreaT loads for hunting and self defense, can 44 mag reach up to 1200 fpe out of a 4 inch barrel?
Yeah, easily. Just basic stuff like Hornady Custom 240 gr does 1,250 FPS in this revolver.
Hey GS. I would like to see you test the .45 Colt. I use my Blackhawk for protection and I would like to see a number of .45 Colt defense rounds tested. I like the heavy bullets myself. While .45 Colt single actions are not known as a popular carry gun I would like to see em tested. Your test are very telling and different that other gun testers.
Interesting test. The.357 magnum having more power than a .44 magnum was a surprise being that they had the same amount (180 grains). The .10mm sort of fell a little short and it had an equal amount. The .357 is a round that can pretty much do it all. The.44 and the.10mm aren’t slouches, but I guess it depends on the ammunition and purpose of use.
the .357 was clearly a bit overloaded, which Buffalo Bore is known for.....; fastest reload from 10" barrel is almost 1396 fps with 296/H110; to even approach that from a 4" barrel is most definitely beyond intended pressures. (Oddly enough, the .44 ammo appeared to be mid-range loads instead) (The. 44 mag has reloading data for almost 1900 fps loads with a 180 gr bullet from an 8 3/8th barrel...; to clock under 1300 fps is mid-range loading, or, drastically too slow-burning of a powder)