DANGEROUS ANIMAL DEFENSE Ballistic Test - Underwood .44 Mag VS .357 Mag Hard Cast
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มิ.ย. 2024
- Testing the Underwood .357 Mag 180 gr flat nose hard cast VS the Underwood .44 Mag 305 gr flat nose hard cast in a "big game ballistic test" with 54" of 10% Clear Ballistics and 1/2" medium density fiberboard that represents animal ribs. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221
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If anyone wondered why I used the Underwood 9mm+P 124 gr flat point FMJ instead of the 147 gr Hard Cast, it's because the 124+P FMJ does much better. In the past I ran the same "dangerous game" ballistic test with 1/2" MDF with Underwood's 9mm+P 147 gr Hard Cast, got about the same energy as the FMJ but got just 22" of penetration. The FMJ goes a full foot deeper, which is no surprise in that for 9mm, a 147 gr is always a reduced power load because of limited case capacity.
Have you ever tried 357 mag 158gr vs 180gr for penetration?
OK, reduced case capacity! Otherwise it wouldn´t make any sense.
I have always thought that 147 grain is heavy for 9x19. Case capacity makes sense for the 124 grain. It is the only weight I personally use in 9x19. For me, I think 124 grain is the best compromise between sectional density and velocity in 9mm.
I use federal american eagle flat nose FMJ 147g. The bigger the better, the heavier the better. In terms of power, .357 and .44 are way above 9mm.
Dang I'm rambling!!! Sorry lol that's what I get for commenting at midnight!!! Lol
Well done. I once heard a statement, "use the most powerful round that you can make consistant hits with". This video really proves that.
Its a good statement to go by, hitting with a smaller caliber accurately is usually better than hitting with a large caliber with crap accuracy and long follow up shots when it comes to stopping a charging animal. If you hit a brown bear thats charging you accurately in the head with a 22lr it will have more of a chance of stopping the bear than a .500 S&W where you hit the bear in the leg or what not and cant follow up in time. Extreme example but it fits.
Dude it's videos like this that make me happy to be a 357 mag fan
Long, slow, heavy for caliber bullets with a flat nose and sharp should will wreck everything. Bigger holes are certainly better
But… th-cam.com/video/T6kUvi72s0Y/w-d-xo.html
357 remains king!
I don't know how I never found your channel before yesterday. I appreciate your efforts at making these informative videos. The editing and split screen stuff is awesome. You even have a voice for narrating. Great work!
Thank you
Yea the split screen stuff is definitely cool. I always wanna see the target when ppl chronograph their shots.
Filmed 6/1/23
Youve clearly demonstrated that flat nose ammo is the way to go. It flies much straighter. I also prefer moderate to maybe full power 240gr .44 for the woods. Its heavy and powerful enough.
Mr. Gun Sam sacrifices hand for humanity.
Control with penetration is way to go. I read about alaskan comments from game wardens most people can't shoot hand canon's well enough for bullet placement because of recoil and people get killed by bear then it dies from wounds, because shooter is not accurate enough with shot placement with a gun they can't control. Very good and well done video thanks 😊 for doing them!
I do like your gell block setup and your excellent presentation
+ clear thinking.
Thank you.
Hi Sam, great test. Hardcast videos are my favorite. Thanks
Very cool video today, thanks for the work!
Great I’ve been waiting for this test !
Gold dots are one of the few rounds i trust in about any self defense caliber. They have just always worked for me.
Dude your channel is awesome! Keep up the good work and keep showing revolver love.
You are a real trooper shooting thst 305 grain hardcast in that smaller 44mag! 😳😬👍🏻
great videos Sam
Another excellent test!...thanks for sharing 👍
Very, very good demonstration and comparison. Many of us would make the assumption that the bigger the better. More power is "always" a good rule to follow. When a gent of your size and experience concludes that a lower power offering to put shots on target is "better", that speaks volumes. A less experienced shooter would likely struggle to put good shots on target in that stressful of a situation. I like a 240 XTP with 23.5gr of H110 for about everything in our 44s. The 3" 629 is a real handful and loses a substantial amount of velocity. The 6" isn't bad at all with practice.
Definitely subbed! Loved how intricate with as many details as could be! Great content! Keep it up!
Thanks!
WIDE MEPLAT IS WHERE ITS AT!
All in HARD CAST!! ❤❤❤❤❤
Those magnums are boss! Thanks for the video
Nice demo! Interesting that the 357 and 44 bullets had the same length/SD, and they penetrated almost exactly the same---just like they're supposed to. The 357 looks quite viable for bear defense and probably a better choice for the average shooter. The 44 definitely has a lot more power, though.
I would agree, 357. Is good for anything short of grizzly, kodiak and polar bears. And even then.. if you had to dump a cylinder of 357. Into a grizzly or polar. I'm pretty sure it'd do the job. 10mm will do it and it's basically a semi auto 357.
@@youngboyharless9769In the Arctic, researchers doing studies were charged by a large Polar Bear. One of them was armed with a .357 Magnum. It only took 3 shots to stop and kill it.
Great video again awesome info thanks
GS. Good and interesting video. Thanks for sharing. Take care.
You should've used your 44 Special hard cast, just to see the penetration.
Yes that would have been interesting to see how deep it would get. More controllable than the 44 mag but bigger hole than the 357.
I love the .44 mag/357 content!
Great comparison of different cartridges.
That .357 load is what I carry in my model 28 when out hiking. It’s great stuff!
See my comment above. Buffalo Bore 180 gr gas check Chrony a legit 1400 fps plus from a 4 inch barrel. Controllable , and puts a 4 inch 357 into 41 mag power range
Interesting...Best “Big Game” comparison I’ve seen yet...
Great comparison video. I've been loading Missouri Bullet Co Elmer K 240 hardcast over 10gr unique. 1240fps and good penetration in milk jugs. I wonder how they'd do in your gel setup? Let me know if you want some ammo/components to try out.
I like a 148 grain hard cast DEWC in my 38 "kit" gun at about 900 fps. Mild recoil and deep penetration.
Yes. Overall the .357 is a better choice unless, like, you're trying to get your morning coffee and a bunch of punks are robbing the bank across the street and you tell the coffee waitress to call the beat cops but the punks try to take off before the beat cops get there so you gotta go stop them and that's when you really, really need the .44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and it will blow your head clean off as long as you remember to count your rounds unless there's a lot of chaos and you lose count. Yeah, that's when you really need the .44.
My wrist hurt just watching you! 👍
You are way tougher than I am. Absolutely no way I would shoot that 44 load in a Model 69! Might try it in a 7-1/2 Ruger SRH though. Amazing channel!
Beautiful testing. I have a few of the Underwood loads, much cheaper than the Buffalo Bore stuff, and works well enough for me. If I want more power, I load my own, but for factory rounds these are pretty good.
This video was great information for my study on a bear gun, thank you!
Gun Sam I've got to say , I don't know how you do it ? Your ability to hit at 75yds is outstanding ! Aside from that , the video is awesome . Thanks for informing us .
The 44 magnum in that model 69 you need it quad ported to keep the barrel down. You must be using the best setup and test porting that beast. A taller front sight will help you with hitting at 75 yards with that model 69 too.
A Glock 20 with dangerous game loads would've been fun to see in that lineup. Great shooting @ 75yds with your .357.
Wowzers, congratulations on 60K subs, Sam!!! That's a lot of sandwiches
that was nice to see the different 9mm loads right after each other
The steel was jumping around with the .44 magnum because you were hitting the edge of it. Probably wouldn’t have jumped around as much if you were getting center mass hits with the .44 magnum.
But this video really confirmed my own experience that .357 magnum is the better revolver for an average person (and I’m very average).
Love the .357 in a good heavy steel Ruger.
I'm impressed! I use the plus p hard nose in my 9mm when I'm in the back woods. I didn't think it wold travel that far. There are no grizzly bears where I live in Backwoods North Carolina, just an occasional Sasquatch
327 Federal Magnum Dangerous Animal Defense !! Hard Cast Lead !!
75 yards with the 357 mag was good shooting and great ammo consistency.
Yes, you definitely need a sight adjustment from 240s to over 300 grain bullets in 44. Also it seemed you were shooting right with 44 at 25 yards. Could be you, could be sights.
Either way I enjoyed watching, thanks
Not bad with that beast. Large bore. Big holes. 300 grain bullets should stop pretty much anything. You have convinced me to buy shooting gloves.
Interesting. I have some of that Underwood 180gr hardcast. I'll say it's not noticably harder-shooting than your typical full-power 158gr SJHP type round. I still wouldn't feel under-gunned at all with it. For me I don't have a ton of interest in 44mag.
For me, the 180 gr has more push than lighter ammo, but it's less snappy. Feels overall like most other ammo in terms of overall recoil, just more muzzle rise.
Dude, you must have balls of titanium. I'm not one bit recoil shy but I'm not going to put over a couple of rounds of those 305 gr monsters through a double action revolver. A 6" Ruger Super Blackhawk is another story. That would be a fantastic round for close range deer hunting. A single action is much more pleasant to shoot than a double action. Growing up I heard all the stories of how a 44 mag would break your wrist and all of the usual bs. I bought a imported 6" 44 mag single action several years ago and after the first shot with a full house 240 gr SP I was wondering where all of the unholy recoil was. Sure it had some kick, but it wasn't painful in the least. The way a single action is designed, it's supposed to roll in the hand and that makes it easy to shoot without beating your palm blue. After a little practice I could run several boxes through it before my wrist started getting sore. If you try to fight the gun and have a death grip on it, sure it'll be a rough. You're supposed to let the gun roll back and up in your hand and then it's a pleasure to shoot. Someday I'll have a Ruger GP100 357 with a 4" barrel and that will become my next EDC. I absolutely love my 4" 1911 45, but the GP100 357 is more versatile, effective and reliable than any semi auto, including the 10mm. A Ruger revolver is built like a tank and has the best warranty on the market, plus their customer service is second to none. I learned to shoot with a revolver and shot them for years before semi autos were even a thing here in the US. If a revolver was good enough for people like Wyatt Earp and all of the old west gun fighters and every branch of law enforcement until the late 80's, it's definitely good enough for me.
If Wyatt Earp was in his same role in our time, he would be carrying a 9mm or .40sw. He used modern tech then, why wouldn’t he now?
I always carry a picnic basket in Bear Country. Gives me a chance to get back while the Bear puts down the picnic blanket.
Great Video. THATS why I choose .357mag.
Maybe you could do a video on 45 colt hardcast in a Vaquero or Single action. Alot of us carry 45 colt in the woods..🍻
Great content once again, on the topic of animal defence, it seems as though the concensus is hard cast. I would love to see a hard cast vs specificaly the swift A frame in same calibre/weight/velocity
327 Fed Mag Hard Cast Keith 130 Grain !!
Sam… love these videos! Recently purchased a Henry Model X in 357. There are some vids of TH-camrs testing out carbine’s chambered in pistol calibers. It would be awesome if my favorite gun channel… wink.. wink… was able to do some testing of his own!! 😁💪🏽😎
Here’s to hoping…
I'm not totally surprised by the results although that 9mm+P did better than I expected. I've heard people who live in big bear country say they carry a .357 mag because of exactly what you showed. I've not fired any of the 305 grain Underwood from my 629 but I imagine its a handful to try and control, especially in a high stress moment like a bear charging you. I kind of want to get some just to see now.
my Ruger Alaskan shoots 44mag. it's pretty tough to get multiple shots off quickly and stay on target. It's also moderately unpleasant to practice with. I often find myself carrying a 10mm (G20 or 1911) because I'm far more likely to get the target multiple times. (note: no Griz in my part of Idaho)
Very good video and figured before watching the results the 357 w Hard Cast would preform well and the 44 mag would out preform, was interesting. KE is 1/2MV Sq and that will be a game changer if a large game. I carry underwood 200 hard cast in my Glock 27 when outdoors but sometimes carry the 629 with 305's if I get that feeling.
Good job on this, very informative.
Imo putting that 305gr through a 6in barrel or longer is the way to go with that round.
I'm thinking lever action carbines.
"dinner on the plate" love it lol. What part of Michigan are you in Sam? Not a stalker, lol, but im originally from Millington. Really miss the outdoor life up there
Great tests ! That’s the bullet I carry in my .357 !
In my .44 I carry 310 grain hard cast WFN !
The 180 grain has an advantage over the 9 mm weight !
The .44 in my testing does more damage than the .357 does and some of that is because the .44 is larger diameter!
So tearing a larger hole seems a + to my targets!
I’m not saying the .357 with 180 grain hard cast wouldn’t do the task at hand because it will !
A handgun, in .357 or 44mag, is at best, minimal power required for bear protection. Consider this, even the 44 mag does not have the stopping power of a 30-30 Winchester model 94. Try showing up in bear camp with a 30-30 and ask your guide if that is enough rifle for the brown bears you were planning on hunting. When he stops laughing he will probably tell you no. After spending 7 years in Alaska, and I do not consider myself a bear hunting expert, I felt much more comfortable carrying a model 37 Ithaca police 12 ga with slugs in bear country. You can't out run them, I clocked one doing 35kts through alders and heavy brush like it was nothing. The best you can hope for is to back away slowly from the surprised bear and hope he is not hungry or at least not be the slowest runner in your group. All the wild and crazy stories you have heard about brown bears are probably true, for the most part. Be prepared and carry enough medicine to cure your ills in bear country...
The point of a handgun for defense from large, tough animals is that it is always on you. When you aren't out hunting and you happen upon a mother and her young you may need to draw whatever you have on you. If you are hunting YES your long gun is what you would use, but again if for any reason you don't have it in hand your sidearm is on you. Many hunters still carry a powerful handgun as a backup and many other outdoorsman that might be fishing, for example, have their hands full often and thus only have their .44 or 10mm or whatever to rely on in a pinch. Handgun hunting is a thing too, where legal, but mostly people want a handgun on their side when in the woods even if they do have a rifle.
I cast a 265gr rnfp Ranch Dog designed bullet for my .44 mag. This bullet is cast from 50/50 Linotype/wheelweight lead, then water dropped to maximize hardness. Loaded with 24gr of H110 (This is a very hot load, but is safe in MY gun), giving me a muzzle velocity of 1500fps out of my 7.5" barrel. Talk about an absolute deer slayer! No need for expansion with a .44, just the right bullet design.
Do any 41 magnum?
@@anonymousf454 Not yet, but I did just buy a 10mm. If it will feed a 200gr RFN bullet, that's likely what I will cast for it.
Great video.
With the 300 or above 44 bullets at full velocity, you will need a higher front sight. With a 6 inch Model 29 S&W, my 300 gr full loads shot 18 inches high at 25 yards.
On my 2 and 3/4 inch S&W M69, I added a set of Pachmayr Diamond grips. The full load recoil is still there but the grips take the sting out with 240 and 250 gr loads. Havent tried the 300 gr bullets yet. This revolver is meant as a backup gun and a woods walker. I would go with the SWC 240 gr 44 Mag all copper loads for protection from animals.
BTW, Elmer Keith called the 357 Magnum "puny".
Hi gun Sam now you are talking what I carry revolvers for most of the time. I carry my ruger security 6 4" 357 in town. In the woods I carry my ruger super Blackhawk hunter 7" 44 mag using handloaded 240 grn hardcast heat treat bullets fom Montana bullet works. Full power imr 4227. . And also my ruger blackhawk 357 7". Both revolver are very accurate. I shot a deer last season with the 44. And the bullet went completely through the deer and came out near its tail. It was close to 40 yard shot. The deer went nowhere. I really like hardcast bullets for hunting. 😊😊 God bless. This is a awsome video. You are a good shot. Thank you😊
Great Video and fantastic shooting. I always felt the 357 with solid bullets is sufficient. If i went 44mag Id probably want a 6in N frame but carrying it around all day wouldn't be fun.
Glad you tested these rounds and put a few myths to rest with this presentation. Well done Sam! ♠️🎩🎯🎱🇺🇸🏁🇺🇦🔱🌻🏵️💮🌸🌼🏴☠️🏹
Thanks
I like 357 But I'm pausing right at the beginning to say that load needs more meplat to compete with 44. Especially that particular 44 has very generous meplat.
The 180gr WFN is mighty impressive out of your 686!
I've carried the Buffalo Bore version in my 386 Mtn Lite as a lightweight hunting backup when elk hunting in the Rockies. 23oz when loaded with 7rnds. Kicks like hell but very accurate. I get 1180fps out of the 386's 3in barrel.
excellent
Awesome video! You mightcwant to try Buffalo Bore's 9mm Outdoor load. There's a testimony from a customer on the sire describing a successful emergency take-down of a brown bear. Pretty compelling and unexpected!
Really enjoyed this video. You do great work. And I wouldn't want to shoot a 44 Magnum either! Biggest surprise was in the 9mm & how the different bullet designs performed. That flat nose 9mm +P did really good. I wonder how it would compare to some of the popular 9mm 147 gr. hard cast bullets in penetration out of a 4" barrel. I saw a couple of videos on the .41 Magnum & how it has 25% less recoil over the 44 Magnum while out penetrating it. Too bad .41 Magnum isn't more popular.
Thanks, the Underwood 124+P flat nose did 1,199 FPS/396 FPE in this 3.2" pistol. I don't think I ran the 147 gr hard cast in this pistol, but the Buffalo Bore 147 gr+P hard cast did 1,094 FPS/391 FPE in my 5" pistol, and I did the same test a year ago with about 5-6" gel then 1/2" MDF and it penetrated to just 20.5" compared to the 34" that the Underwood flat nose 124+P got.
I just found more data, I did run the Underwood 147+P gr hard cast in this 3.2" Taurus at 1,080 FPS/381 FPE. Same 6" then 1/2" MDF setup and got 22" of penetration.
👍😊 I’ve shot one of those 305s through a super Blackhawk 4 5/8 barrel it was a hand full.
Sam , you should really try a Rhino in 357 . I have had surgery on both my hands and out of desperation it picked up a Rhino in 357 magnum. Because it reduced some of the recoil . It allows me to still fire a magnum.
Very well done video just like all the others you do! Just a foot note to let you know that in the last four years three grizzly bears have been killed in Alaska using the 45 ACP hardball. As few as six shots and as many as eight shots were used in all three instances. Jessie on life below zero carries a 10 mm on his hip for wolves and bears in Alaska. It’s not unusual to see many men and women shopping at the grocery store with a 45 or some other caliber on their hip when they go shopping for the month. Bears even attack within the city limits of Anchorage
I believe that both of them are setup to handle the given situation! I would take the one that you shoot the best!
By already having confidence in that particular revolver.. that's one less thing running through your brain!
Now.. Mr Bear can cover 50 yards in 3 seconds! Aim low chest if he's barreling down on you.. you'd be less likely to shoot over him as he's closing the distance!
That being said.. no one wants to be in the scenario.. and if that bear is actually hunting for you.. you will not know it's coming until it's too late 😮
Thank goodness.. that is the rarity! Most bears head for the hills as soon as they smell you.. let alone hear you and see you!
They are not hiding behind every other tree waiting to pounce.. that would be the TIGER 🐯
Great shooting and the information was awesome too!
Thanks for sharing this brother
Sam. Thx for another good presentation. This video shows that bigger is NOT always better in Ammo caliber if you can't put rounds on target. The 44 disappointed & surprised me in the penetration gel test. I wonder if a longer barrel on the 44 would have produced different accuracy? Anyway, Thx again for a job well done!
i would take 4 of 5 on target with the 44 any day over 5 of 5 with the 357 against a bear. and yes a longer barrel and heavier frame makes a world of difference. it's the difference between hunting and target shooting. 7½" super redhawk has no problem throwing 350gr painlessly
@@boedude8496 I agree. I put that out for discussion and thank you for your input. I like the S&W 8 3/8 barrel but that is a personal preference. I also prefer the 454 Casual over the 44 Mag.
yes, the 454 is quite a bit more powerful. it was my first firearm purchase, back in '88. now i have the marlin 1894 to go with it. now waiting to get the 460 pair. i like it better than the 500 for some reason
@@boedude8496 Nice. I have the S&W 460 and 500 Both in 10 inches. I like the 460 better also. The 460 is flatter shooting and hits almost as hard as the 500. Have a good day.
❤Handguns for backup but would prefer a 12-gauge and also 30 caliber rifle for big threats
I will NEVER own another .44 mag with less than a 6 inch barrel. I carried a S&W 629 with a 2.5 inch barrel for years, and I hated that gun. Dreaded pulling the trigger. I sold it and bought a Taurus 627 357 mag with a 6.5 inch ported barrel a couple of years ago. I love it!
But I actually got mine because I was looking for a .44 Special with a 4" barrel. I figured this was just right, not a lot of intent to shoot magnum ammo.
Nice gun slingin' with the 44 on the steel 👍
Can you Imagine what 44 MAGNUM 305 GR HARD CAST would do in a LEVER ACTION RIFLE with a 17 inch BARREL
Just a FYI in relation to this topic: Ballistic Dummy Labs now has Grizzly Bear Heads.
Loved the 9mm test, similar to what I want to see. I want a comparison between jsp, hollowpoint, and hardcast. Maybe .44 mag
Very interesting. Thanks. The .44 Mag did really wallop that target, but I'd wear gloves to shoot it.
Very nice video! I really appreciate the comparison. I have never fired a 305 gr out of a 44 mag.I normally shoot 240 gr would like to see that comparrisson. Couple of thoughts on a real life senecio whether it is bear charging you or a a bad guy with a gun. You are not going to remember recoil, slow your brain down and make each round count. That's why bad guys that are untrained look like idiots using the retreat spray and pray technic doesn't work.
My go to bear load is 44 mag Buffalo Bore 265 dangerous game load, 1425 fps and 1195 ft lbs of energy. My woods 44 is a 629 4" Magna-ported, It had an action job. I love how fast i can get back on target with this combo. I do have a Colt 8" Anaconda and 8 3/8" Raging bull, these are good hunting guns but as a woods gun my 629 rides along. My son has shot one round of the buffalo bore through his 69, it turned his hand pink. Watching you shoot that 69 said you are devoted to trails and tribulations. Hope the sting leaves soon. Just love the 44!
You made that shorts video to show 44 mag haters how follow up shots are possible then follow it up letting the recoil go lol
Nice 👍😎
Great video. I appreciate your reviews. Once again it comes down to the old adage of carry what you can comfortably shoot and get hits with on target. I'd prefer a .357 mag hole in the bear than a .44 mag hole in a tree.
Its funny because a .357 magnum is actually .357 in cartridge diameter whereas a .44 magnum is .429 inches in diameter. you would only looking at .072 in dia projectile difference, albeit Significant in power performance.
Shout out to vortex nation podcast for that.
The surface area of the .429 is nearly 1.5× bigger than the .357. Hits on target are what count, AND since the bear is already committed to the attack, more hits may be needed, so hits become more important as the distance closes. That said, to get the sectional density of the .429 305 grain bullet, one would need to be shooting a 212 grain from a 357.
@@williamgaines9784 Shoot until the threat isn't a threat!
@@moshkid16 👍
I'll stick with the 9mm & 357 mag maybe 10mm 🤷🏻♂️ 357 mag is my favorite revolver caliber
In the 44 mag, i have long thought that a good 250 gr Keith SWC at a moderate velocity of 1100 fps or so would do well. We know that a heavy bullet penetrates well at modest velocity. It would recoil a good deal less as well. That 305 gr load looks a lot like the old Garrett "hammerhead" load. Might be better in a heavier gun, like a 5.5" Redhawk. Was very pleased with that 357 load, because i dearly love my 686. It was my first handgun, and the last i would ever sell. Good to see that proper 9mm loads are viable as well. Here in Kalifornia we do not have grizzlies, and black bears tend 4o be avoidant. The most likely problem animal is going to be a cougar or an aggressive pig. Any good 357 JHP should work fine on them, although the hardcast should be a great option for pigs, in case the gristle playe gets in the way. I just wonder if an overeager game warden might try to ding you for not using lead free bullets, even though you are not hunting. Great test
Its all about practice if you know youll be around big bears practice practice then practice more. I couldn't shoot my 47t Limbaugh very good wheni first got it even though i was shooting a 350gr 46 colt at 1200fps very good . After some practice i could shoot a 430gr 475 almost as good as my 45. The right tool for the job and practice is all it takes
Imagine if the .44 produced that thunderclap sound you hear in the Dirty Harry movies
This 357 ammunition is what I bought for S.H.T.F.; knowing it will penetrate and hit hard as hell. It’s good to have a variety of ammunition in each caliber, for different purposes.
I carry the 265 mono metal in a model 69 when hunting in bear country. This would be a decent second option if I ever run out of that
There is video to do, short barrel vs long with same caliber? 38/357 44/44M 2 inch vs 6 inch ?.. Thanks again Sam.
Thanks for the video.
I have just recently decided to swap our black bear loads from Buffalo Bore to Underwood. My wife carries my 2 inch Model 85 Taurus, and in a comparson test between the underwood and Buff Bore, both in 158 grain +P Hard cast lead, the BB would not stabilize in the short barrel. The underwood was fine. That did it for me. I like the nickle plating better also. I carry a 2.5 inch SW 19-3 in 357 magnum with 180 grn hard cast, and although it might handle the BB loads fine, I just like the Underwood better. I have a small box of each on the way. I'll put the Buff Bore loads into storage for some other day of possible need.
Buffalo Bore consistency of velocity, crimps and all of that along with their great boxes, makes it worth the extra cost, but in the real world none of that matters because solid bullets are less effected by tiny variations, so Underwood is pretty good for what it is and they simply work.
@@GunSam Like I said, it was the Buff Bore 38 spcl load that keyholed every shot tested with the short barrel that did it for me.Penetration was obviously minimal because of it. Of course, might not do that with every snubbie, but the Underwood did not, so it is now my choice. I do like the BB loads though. Stout stuff, and good consistency. I will save these rounds.
@@GunSam I see by the BB rounds I have, that they are very well crimped. Have you ever experienced crimp jump using Underwood hard cast 38 or 357 through a short barrel?
Based on actual accounts of bear attacks it is likely you will have to fire follow-up shots. Given that it is also not very reliable to drop a large bear with a shot to anywhere other than the brain, the ability to hit a target the size of it's face quickly and repeat that also very quickly a few times, ability to control the gun while in high stress is essential. This is why going with a gun and ammo combo that is at the extent of your shooting ability under range conditions is probably a bad idea. For this reason I would feel better protected with an effective .357 round over a potent .44 mag.. Maybe a more downloaded .44 that still penetrates deeply would be a great choice but I would rather have that 124 grn. 9mm +P Underwood load than that .44 load as I am not nearly as skilled a shooter as Sam.
There's an old saying "you can't miss fast enough".
i think in the real world is adrenaline and high heart rate would be the true test,,run forest run lol
Except that a grizz or brown bear can outrun an Olympic sprinter.
That's the thing though. One would have to calm that down whether in the woods or in the streets in order to shoot correctly and hit. Just part of life. I do however, wonder why so many people use 10mm Glocks for bear defense. Like, okay....let's take the pistol and caliber most likely to jam if not shot with a perfect grip, and put it in the hands of a person that just rolled down a hill, dislocated their shoulder when trying to escape that grizz, and expect them to shoot it with perfect grip and stance, left handed and with the mag fallen out somewhere under the leaves. To me, a revolver in general makes more sense. 10mm pistol capacity of 15 over 7 magnum rounds (on average) is worthless when you can't get more than one shot off and it jams.
@GunSam ya I would take a 357 revolver or 357 sig with correct ammo ,last but not least, shot placement
I think for recoil and control the underwood 44 special Keith load does most of what the 44 magnum does. Even vs 357 mag too.
IYO ... would the 357 round from a 3 inch Ruger GP 100 be enuff for Black bear in GA ??? Love your Tests.. You're becoming my fav round tester/ reviewer and you almost always reply ... I know it's getting harder with all your subs....
Thanks! Yeah, I tend to get more comments than even typical channels with the same sub number. It's like my views aren't spectacular, but the engagement in conversation between people is really high, it's up there as if I had half a million subs. Just means people are loyal here which is great.
@@GunSam I watch almost everyone that pops up ...
I just trust your opinions and love your approach...
No Body Slamming tables or bias ... just honest commentary ...
1 question... I promise I'm not a crazed latent psycho groupie...
Michigan or Minnesota??? can't figure out your accenT!!!
Ohhh and 1 more... the Original question:
IYO ... would the 357 round from a 3 inch Ruger GP 100 be enuff for Black bear in GA
@@jpb1231000we had no less than 15 blackies over 800 pounds harvested in PA in the time I lived up there. I always carried my 44 when I went fishing and bow hunting up there and never thought twice about it. A 44 is what I already had though. I saw way more bears digging through my garbage than what I ever did out in the woods and all I ever did was yell crazy shit and swear words at them and they ran away but when ya do see one in his house it’s a RUSH for sure and them dudes are FAST when they want to be. I know dudes who hunted them things and some took multiple shots from magnum rifles to put them down. I also knew a dude who killed one with a single shot from a 22 250. It’s all about shot placement. So I think six well placed rounds from a 357 into a bear are going to be a whole lot better than 44 magnums screaming past him but I am by no means an expert. Like I said I carried a 44 just cause I had one and I could put the first cylinder into a target about as big as my hand at about fifteen to twenty yards. Not spectacular but good enough for what I thought I might have needed. That was a long time ago and before arthritis and even then my hand hurt a few days even after a few cylinders (it was an old S&W with wood grips like dirty Harry’s but stainless). Now a days I don’t even know what would hurt worse my hand or my wallet I know BOTH would be sore till next paycheck lol. Stay safe out there brother. Always wanted a 3 inch GP I had two 6 ers and a 4 in my time and sold them all off like a broke dumba$$ will do lol.
@@flapthecrapster Thanks 4 the Reply!
@@jpb1231000 sure thing brother! Like I said I had a 4 inch Ruger GP100. I moved down here to Tennessee cause my wife’s from here and it’s not a frozen economic wasteland run by communists lol but I digress. I had to drive back up to PA for an emergency so I grabbed a sack of clothes and my old GP100. I picked that old Ruger up and said in my mind “this will be enough to handle anything I may encounter driving hundreds of miles through the Appalachian mountains in the middle of the night even the Flatwoods monster in West By God Virginia!!!”. And I confidently left on my merry way. That being said Rugers 10 mm 1911 looks like a beast you could probably take anything in our part of the world on with besides maybe Sasquatch lol. Take care brother!